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Author Topic: Ephedra & Ephedrine & ECA - Information and Questions  (Read 40675 times)
Princess L
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« on: May 10, 2006, 01:29:06 PM »

All of your answers are in these threads.
As with most advice, you will find contradictions.

You decide.

All future questions regarding Ephedra or Ephedrine HCL that are already answered in the following threads WILL BE DELETED.


http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=69819.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=67383.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=51382.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=58483.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=63462.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=62151.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=57287.0

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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2006, 12:44:46 PM »

The only thing that is not present is a warning...

Remember, Ephedrine is a powerful drug.  It is not classed as addictive, but trust me it can be.  Several years ago (over 7) I tried an ECA stack for the first time.  At the time no one had worked out the idea of being off 1-2 days per week and not using for longer than 4 weeks without time off, etc...

Anyway, I built up a tolerance to Ephedrine and to Caffeine.  After 3 months of continuous use (abuse), I was taking over 1000mg of Caffeine per day and about 400mg of Ephedrine per day...  I never took a break... and there were days when I exceeded those amounts...

After over a year I tried to taper off the amounts but it was no use... without enough caffeine I had huge headaches and I found that without the ephedrine I couldn't concentrate...  The end result was that I went cold turkey... NOT SMART... I crashed... I slept at least 12 hours per day for the next 3 months... and it took over a year for my body to recover...

ECA is an amazing fat burning stack, but abusing it is dangerous and can cause serious issues... as I stated this was years ago for me and I have used the stack since with great success... please read the advice on getbig and other sights and don't abuse it.

Cheers!
Wooo

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gtbro1
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2006, 03:33:21 AM »

The only thing that is not present is a warning...

Remember, Ephedrine is a powerful drug.  It is not classed as addictive, but trust me it can be.  Several years ago (over 7) I tried an ECA stack for the first time.  At the time no one had worked out the idea of being off 1-2 days per week and not using for longer than 4 weeks without time off, etc...

Anyway, I built up a tolerance to Ephedrine and to Caffeine.  After 3 months of continuous use (abuse), I was taking over 1000mg of Caffeine per day and about 400mg of Ephedrine per day...  I never took a break... and there were days when I exceeded those amounts...

After over a year I tried to taper off the amounts but it was no use... without enough caffeine I had huge headaches and I found that without the ephedrine I couldn't concentrate...  The end result was that I went cold turkey... NOT SMART... I crashed... I slept at least 12 hours per day for the next 3 months... and it took over a year for my body to recover...

ECA is an amazing fat burning stack, but abusing it is dangerous and can cause serious issues... as I stated this was years ago for me and I have used the stack since with great success... please read the advice on getbig and other sights and don't abuse it.

Cheers!
Wooo



I went through the same withdrawls...I was honestly taking over 2000 mgs of ephedrine hcl a day. That is no lie...stupid I know...but true. I was taking those mini thin things that you can get at gas stations. I didn't start out at that dose it took several years to build up to it. I was working very long hours in a factory and I got hooked. I felt like absolute crap without it. I was finally able to kick that habit after my state passed a law that limited the amount you could buy,and also required you to sign for it.It took several weeks of misery before I felt normal again...I also slept all the time...getting out of bed was a real chore...and my metabolism crashed and I gained nearly 20 lbs very quickly.That stuff is  potentially dangerous if abused.
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2006, 05:48:22 AM »

more than that.They came 100 per bottle and each pill was 25 mg I bought 2 bottles a day at the gas station...it is a wonder my kidneys work at all after something that stupid.
tollerance is the key word... it just stops having the same effect because the receptors shut down
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2006, 06:40:18 PM »

I just started back on ECA stack on May 29th. After low carbing (under 50 grams a day) for 2 weeks prior, the stack gave me the boost I needed to be jacked up again! Stepmill for an hour is a breeze compared to the previous 2 weeks. I have to up the intensity level now from 6 to 7 (under fat burn program). I don't abuse ECA. I take 3 servings/day at 24 grams of ephedrine, 200 grams of caffiene, and one bayer tab. I wish that they would have NEVER took the stuff off the shelves in the first place.
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gtbro1
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2006, 03:07:28 AM »

I just started back on ECA stack on May 29th. After low carbing (under 50 grams a day) for 2 weeks prior, the stack gave me the boost I needed to be jacked up again! Stepmill for an hour is a breeze compared to the previous 2 weeks. I have to up the intensity level now from 6 to 7 (under fat burn program). I don't abuse ECA. I take 3 servings/day at 24 grams of ephedrine, 200 grams of caffiene, and one bayer tab. I wish that they would have NEVER took the stuff off the shelves in the first place.

You can still buy ephedrine hcl. The only stuff they pulled was the ephedra,or Mau Hung..which is the herbal version...They pulled it because as a dietary supplement the manufacturing could not be monitored by the fda.Ephedrine hcl is a pharmasuetical,therefore the fda can have some control over the manufacturing of it.Ephedrine hcl works better anyway,as far as a "speed" goes.
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suckmymuscle
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2006, 10:03:04 PM »

The only thing that is not present is a warning...

Remember, Ephedrine is a powerful drug.  It is not classed as addictive, but trust me it can be.  Several years ago (over 7) I tried an ECA stack for the first time.  At the time no one had worked out the idea of being off 1-2 days per week and not using for longer than 4 weeks without time off, etc...

Anyway, I built up a tolerance to Ephedrine and to Caffeine.  After 3 months of continuous use (abuse), I was taking over 1000mg of Caffeine per day and about 400mg of Ephedrine per day...  I never took a break... and there were days when I exceeded those amounts...

After over a year I tried to taper off the amounts but it was no use... without enough caffeine I had huge headaches and I found that without the ephedrine I couldn't concentrate...  The end result was that I went cold turkey... NOT SMART... I crashed... I slept at least 12 hours per day for the next 3 months... and it took over a year for my body to recover...

ECA is an amazing fat burning stack, but abusing it is dangerous and can cause serious issues... as I stated this was years ago for me and I have used the stack since with great success... please read the advice on getbig and other sights and don't abuse it.

Cheers!
Wooo



  No, it is not. Among catecholaminergic monoamines, ephedrine is one of the safest. It's sympathomimetic effects are four times less potent than that of dexamphetamine, and roughly sixteen times lower than dextro-methamhetamine hydrochloride.

  There is no evidence that ephedrine raises systolic blood pressure considerably, nor that it induces vasocompression of capilaries on the central and peripheral nervous systems. It does not seem to increase intra-cranial pressure either. The metbolism of ephedrine is slow, and there lies the danger, as the curve to peak maximum lvel, of absorption, is much fster than the clearance rate, thus potentially raising it's plasma concentration to dangerous levels.

  Ephedrine is biochemically and physiologically analagous to norepinephrine, a neuro-hormone used, by peripheral nerve endings, to signal vsocompression and contraction of actin myofibrils, by promoting the excretion of Calcium Ions from the peripherl neuronal dendrites and myofibril sarcoplasms. It differs structurally from more potent sympathomimetic amines, like the amphetamines, by having an Oxygen atom attached to the Carbon on it's second chiral center. This increases it's activation of beta-receptors, while conversely decreasing it's monoaminergic and especially dopaminergic effects.

  By reducing ephedrine, where the Oxygen atom is replaced by one of Carbon, the new compound, desoxyephedrine(reduced ephedrine), comercially known as methamphetamine, has it's adrenergic effects increased several times - because the smaller molecule enters the alpha cells, of the adrenal glans, far more quickly, - and gains especificity to the D2DR dopaminergic receptors in neurons of both substantia nigra and pre-frontal cortex of the brain. This dramatically increases both the amplification of systolic and diastolic blood pressure and potential addictivness of the modified amine, while significantly decreases it's thermogenic and especially lipogenic effect.

  When used in combination with caffeine, or other methylxantines, the lipogenic activity of alcoholic monoamines, like ephedrine, is dramatically enhanced, because methylxantines have the capacity to inhibit adenosine, which, once inhibited, blocks the activity of several prostaglandines which deactivate beta-receptors. Thus, the combination of methylxantines and alcoholic monoaminergic sympathomimetics, such as ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, phentermine, phenmetrazine or phendimetrazine, is synergistic. There is no evidence that methylxantines significantly increase the vasopressive effect and/or systolic blood pressure enhancing activity of monominergic sympathomimetics with weak noradrenergic action, such as ephedrine. In conclusion: the combination of ephedrine and caffeine is safe for most people, most of the time. Regards. Smiley

SUCKMYMUSCLE
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2006, 10:23:11 PM »

Not sure if this has been posted already, but the legal fight over the FDA ephedra ban is not over:

Ephedra Lawsuit News

May 11, 2006

"FDA Tries to Restore Ephedra Ban"
The FDA is appealing to a federal court to have the Ephedra ban upheld. A Utah judge has lifted the ban on dietary supplements containing low doses of ephedrine, a substance known to cause serious side effects. The FDA contends that this judge misunderstood the law and ignored scientific evidence about ephedra’s adverse effects on the body.
Ephedra has been linked to dozens of deaths and serious injuries including heart attack and high blood pressure. Two years ago, the Food And Drug Administration (FDA) banned the substance from weight loss supplements and other dietary aids.

Nutraceutical Corp. challenged the ban. Last year, a US District Judge in Utah ruled that the ban could not be enforced on products containing less than 10 milligrams of ephedrine.

The judge, Tena Campbell from Salt Lake City, determined that the FDA must prove ephedra poses side effect risks, as opposed to Nutraceutical having to prove the benefit of their ephedra supplements.

It is unclear whether the appeals judges will rule in favor of the FDA or Nutraceuticals in this legal battle over ephedra, a known danger to the human body.

http://www.ephedrine-news.com/html/ephedra-fda-ban.html
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gtbro1
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2006, 11:59:49 PM »

2000mgs a day?  Holy shit!  Have you had your adrenal glands checked lately?

What you should've done was taper off the drug very slowly.  The crash effect would've been minimal.

I agree.I tried that.I actually succeeded once by doing this.However I was dumb enough to start taking it again some time later.It did take me several years to build up to those idiotic doses,as I built a tolerance to it,it kept taking more and more to feel the speed buzz I was after. Stupid,I know,but I was very young and didn't care.If I could do it over I would never have touched that or any other crap,such as alcohol,because I am one of those people who get addicted to anything mind or mood altering.
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2006, 03:47:05 PM »

Not sure if this has been posted already, but the legal fight over the FDA ephedra ban is not over:

Ephedra Lawsuit News

May 11, 2006

"FDA Tries to Restore Ephedra Ban"
The FDA is appealing to a federal court to have the Ephedra ban upheld. A Utah judge has lifted the ban on dietary supplements containing low doses of ephedrine, a substance known to cause serious side effects. The FDA contends that this judge misunderstood the law and ignored scientific evidence about ephedra’s adverse effects on the body.
Ephedra has been linked to dozens of deaths and serious injuries including heart attack and high blood pressure. Two years ago, the Food And Drug Administration (FDA) banned the substance from weight loss supplements and other dietary aids.

Nutraceutical Corp. challenged the ban. Last year, a US District Judge in Utah ruled that the ban could not be enforced on products containing less than 10 milligrams of ephedrine.

The judge, Tena Campbell from Salt Lake City, determined that the FDA must prove ephedra poses side effect risks, as opposed to Nutraceutical having to prove the benefit of their ephedra supplements.

It is unclear whether the appeals judges will rule in favor of the FDA or Nutraceuticals in this legal battle over ephedra, a known danger to the human body.

http://www.ephedrine-news.com/html/ephedra-fda-ban.html

This is now old news, but the judge's ruling was overturned.

 http://www.casewatch.org/fda/court/ephedra/utah2.shtml
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2006, 01:18:19 PM »

What is the best way to use ephedra, caffeine and aspirin?  I was wondering about mg's, frequency and duration.
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 01:43:31 PM »


 25mg of ephedrine, 200mg caffeine and 81mg of aspirin.

 You can get the ephedrine with a bottle of 'VasoPro' which is easily bought on BB.com. 200mg of caffiene with NoDoz which can be bought anywhere and same with the aspirin...Bayer or baby aspirin.


 Take them all at the same time...wash it down in the early morning with a warm cup of GreenTea(sugar free). Then take a serving of BCAA's and a little bit of glutamine. Then hit cardio for 40 minutes striving to burn 100-120 calories every 10 minutes. BEFORE your breakfast in the morning.

 Good luck. 
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2006, 02:05:22 PM »

You don't need the aspirin
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2006, 02:26:14 PM »

I didnt use the aspirin either....I took Blocks dosage 3 times a day, wake up.....lunch (before cardio)...and preworkout.
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2006, 04:45:42 PM »

I didnt use the aspirin either....I took Blocks dosage 3 times a day, wake up.....lunch (before cardio)...and preworkout.

It's been a while...


 I wouldn't use it 3x's a day. I would go twice daily...as soon as you wake up before your 40-45 minutes of quality cardio as you should be doing and 30 minutes before your lunch. It should be spaced 5-6 hours apart. Plan accordingly.

 I would use it 6 days a week. Take Sundays off of it. Give the receptors and body a little break, if you will one day out of the week. 3 weeks ON and 1 full week of then repeat.
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2006, 05:04:54 PM »

It's been a while...


 I wouldn't use it 3x's a day. I would go twice daily...as soon as you wake up before your 40-45 minutes of quality cardio as you should be doing and 30 minutes before your lunch. It should be spaced 5-6 hours apart. Plan accordingly.

 I would use it 6 days a week. Take Sundays off of it. Give the receptors and body a little break, if you will one day out of the week. 3 weeks ON and 1 full week of then repeat.

45 minutes of cardio is a waste of time.

High intensity, 15 minutes.

You have to give your body a reason to lose fat.
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pobrecito
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2006, 05:12:01 PM »

I think this is an excellent article written by "SuperNatural"...

http://www.musclescience.co.za/training/from_flab_to_fab.htm

Plus, why would you want to spend 45 minutes on the treadmill when you could only do 15 AND get better results Smiley

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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2006, 01:08:27 AM »

What about days off? Should i take eph/coffee then too or only the workout days?

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gtbro1
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2006, 02:03:10 AM »

What is the best way to use ephedra, caffeine and aspirin?  I was wondering about mg's, frequency and duration.

 


   In my opinion the 25 mg ephedrine is way too low.
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2006, 10:16:10 AM »




   In my opinion the 25 mg ephedrine is way too low.

lay off the stuff for a few weeks, then you'll feel something.

i start at 12.5, then up to 25 after a while.
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2006, 08:11:00 PM »

So these are a good fit for an ECA stack?  What does the ECA stack do to your heartrate, don't wan't to feel all freaked out all day.
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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2006, 10:18:48 PM »

dont ever take more than 25mg in a 3-4 hour period, the stuff is potent and works even though you may not "feel" it. Great stuff when used properly.
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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2006, 04:37:14 PM »

I think this is an excellent article written by "SuperNatural"...

http://www.musclescience.co.za/training/from_flab_to_fab.htm

Plus, why would you want to spend 45 minutes on the treadmill when you could only do 15 AND get better results Smiley



So basically this guy is saying almost every Pro is wrong in their cardio choices? I have spoken with Chick, Lee, Shawn Ray and many others and all are in unison by saying treadmill 30-45 minutes anywhere from 3.5 - 4.5 mph on treadmill on an empty stomach is ideal......

But again it is what works for you the individual.....
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2007, 06:56:32 PM »

Vasopro at www.a1supplements.com, 24 soft gels for 9.99.

Sweet thanks!  I was looking at Lipodrene but didn't want to pay $30 for it.  I've been doing a lot of research on ECA stacks and now i'm ready to take the plunge.  After reading this it has given me quite a bit of insight on the pros and cons as well as how you should base your workouts in terms of side effects.

EDIT:  Just did some number crunching and came up with this:

$13.50 VasoPro 24pills – 3x a day = 8 day supply.
$6.00 NoDoz 100pills – 3x a day = 33 day supply.
$5.00 Advil 80pills – 3x a day = 27 day supply.

You will need roughly 3 VasoPros if you use the three weeks on one off method, 1 NoDoz, 2 Advils which will run you well into the next month.  That equates to $56.50/mo.  Not including shipping if you buy online.

Now compare Lipo6 to that.  BB.com has it listed for $27.49, add in shipping and you’re looking at roughly $33.00 for the bottle.  It has 120 liqui-caps.  For extreme fat loss, they say to take 2 pills 3 times a day.  This would mean that bottle will last you 20 days.  So you would have to buy another one which will stretch into part of next month and you’re facing $66.00.  But, if you use the normal dosage which is two times a day you’re looking at that lasting you exactly 30 days.  Which would be only $33.00/mo.
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« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2007, 08:23:13 AM »

ECA stack with or without aspirin for a natural?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=141767.0
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