Author Topic: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be? (Read 38106 times)

natural al · « **Reply #75 on:** October 09, 2006, 07:18:20 AM »

Quote from: egoatdoor on October 09, 2006, 06:01:55 AM

Natural, I don't think going to 20 reps is the solution. I think a better way is to increase the targeted reps to 12. This would reduce the weight to say 335 or 355. If he gets 12 easily, then add 5 or 10 pounds and then keep adding small increments of 5 or 10 pounds at a time as he gets 12 or 13 reps without difficulty. This type of weight should not create the lower back problems squatting at 6 or 8 rep weights would.

in the original dog logg Dante described his quad training as always being 20 rep work. He said that if he had a dude with genetically huge legs he'd have him do the 4-6 rep stuff and then do a widowmaker. My personal experience is that for me to squat and make progress I had to keep the weight a little lighter and go for 20 reps but even with that my back was giving me huge problems so I don't even bother anymore. 20 rep squats are killers....but hey, if 12 reps does the trick and you can progress on them then by all means. You see, DC is not really a cookie cutter routine, you can make changes to it if you have to as long as you progress and get stronger and/or beat the logbook. Some guys would kill me for saying that but it's the truth as far as I'm concerned. You need to do what you need to do to beat the logbook, now there is a point where if you get really nuts changing stuff it's not really gonna be DC training but realistically if you're making gains that doesn't really matter, does it? Hell, if I had to switch things around but still got up to say 220lbs and was pretty lean I'd be happy and it wouldn't matter to me if someone said "but it's not DC".....either way I would have progressed and that's the bottom line.

egoatdoor · « **Reply #76 on:** October 09, 2006, 07:41:27 AM »

Quote from: natural al on October 09, 2006, 07:18:20 AM

in the original dog logg Dante described his quad training as always being 20 rep work. He said that if he had a dude with genetically huge legs he'd have him do the 4-6 rep stuff and then do a widowmaker. My personal experience is that for me to squat and make progress I had to keep the weight a little lighter and go for 20 reps but even with that my back was giving me huge problems so I don't even bother anymore. 20 rep squats are killers....but hey, if 12 reps does the trick and you can progress on them then by all means. You see, DC is not really a cookie cutter routine, you can make changes to it if you have to as long as you progress and get stronger and/or beat the logbook. Some guys would kill me for saying that but it's the truth as far as I'm concerned. You need to do what you need to do to beat the logbook, now there is a point where if you get really nuts changing stuff it's not really gonna be DC training but realistically if you're making gains that doesn't really matter, does it? Hell, if I had to switch things around but still got up to say 220lbs and was pretty lean I'd be happy and it wouldn't matter to me if someone said "but it's not DC".....either way I would have progressed and that's the bottom line.

I think this is the kind of thinking that caused Dante to go underground. IT IS A COOKIE CUTTER PROGRAM ( it says do a 4-8, then a 20 rep widowmaker), but people were taking so many liberties that what they were doing was not DC, as Dante saw it.

What I am concerned about when I see people doing 20 reps squats by themselves ( and not as a widowmaker) is that it becomes a means of not working the legs as hard as they can, which I see as a far too prevalent disease in gyms.

natural al · « **Reply #77 on:** October 09, 2006, 09:56:12 AM »

Quote from: egoatdoor on October 09, 2006, 07:41:27 AM

I think this is the kind of thinking that caused Dante to go underground. IT IS A COOKIE CUTTER PROGRAM ( it says do a 4-8, then a 20 rep widowmaker), but people were taking so many liberties that what they were doing was not DC, as Dante saw it.

What I am concerned about when I see people doing 20 reps squats by themselves ( and not as a widowmaker) is that it becomes a means of not working the legs as hard as they can, which I see as a far too prevalent disease in gyms.

I'm not an expert but like I've said before I know this program very, very well. One of the older pieces of advice DC gave was something like this: If you think you're working hard squatting a certain weight for 6-8 reps, lower that weight a ltitle and go for 20 reps, that'll show you what working hard is all about. 20 rep leg work is brutal but like anything else you have to know how to do it. If you do 4 plates a side on a leg press for 20 easy reps that's not a workout, slap 700lbs on there and go until you can't go anymore, go until your legs are like jelly. If you think your gonna die at 15, don't lock your legs out but "rest" with your legs bent just a little, take in 2-3 deep breaths and go again. I don't care if you take 10 minutes to do your set but you better fry your fucking legs if you didn't then you have no one to blame but yourself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have to learn how to train hard, you don't just say, "I'm gonna kill myself doing legs today" you might think you worked hard but there's a difference. When my legwork is done my quads are shaking...bad. They sometimes cramp up but I don't care, if I don't beat my book I suck. Bottom line.

If someone is inclined to work outside of the rules, so be it. it's up to them but if they fail and don't make the progress they want to it's thier own fault, don't blame DC. I do very little tweaking of the program, it's very basic, very heavy and very brutal. this is how this program works best but remember heavy is relative.

The program-the original dog logg, I'll find and copy and paste the leg portion, it's a good read.

natural al · « **Reply #78 on:** October 09, 2006, 10:07:58 AM »

here's the quad training info from the original dog logg:

Quads: a typical quad workout for me is super heavy weights on either a squat, a leg press or a hack squat for 15 to 30 reps (the last 7 reps for me is truly succeed or death). Someone who has a sweep from hell and his wheels are his best body part I usually have him doing a heavy 4-8 rep set on certain exercises (squat)and then maybe a hardcore 20 repper on other exercises. But most guys who could use more leg size I have them do one set in the 4-8 range to failure and another follow-up set with as much weight as they can use in the 15-20 range to failure on legexercises. It just depends on what I see by their pictures. That is about the only time you will ever see me have a person do 2 sets of the same exercise. With bodybuilders with troublesome legs it's usually those 20 rep sets that make their legs grow and I just have them do that hard and heavy 4-8 rep set to keep the strength gains moving up the ladder.

so I guess we're both right, I haven't read that particular part in a long time and I remembered the bolded part, I remembered the part about the genetically gifted guys doing the 4-8 reps followed by the widowmaker...

for me, the whole widowmaker situation didn't work as well as a super heavy 20 repper. I go brutally heavy-for me and go to failure...

210 and growing · « **Reply #79 on:** October 20, 2006, 05:39:58 AM »

never tried it - but its the best named training program in the world

littlebigswole · « **Reply #80 on:** October 25, 2006, 05:35:20 PM »

i tried the dc program for a good 6 weeks , i helped me break through paltues but like any other workout i think it should periodized also, i learned that since its not such high volume, focus alot on the negatives and youll get amazing out of it, every workout works, but not for everyone, so try it stick to workouts for at least 6-12 weeks then its time for a change

alexxx · « **Reply #81 on:** October 25, 2006, 07:43:45 PM »

To trully do DC justice you must do it for at least 3 months and then judge from the results you get. Remember its how much work you put into each set that determines wether a growth spur occurs or not. Dante has the soundest training program out there and I get results after every workout.

WOOO · « **Reply #82 on:** October 28, 2006, 04:30:57 AM »

Quote from: alexxx on October 25, 2006, 07:43:45 PM

To trully do DC justice you must do it for at least 3 months and then judge from the results you get. Remember its how much work you put into each set that determines wether a growth spur occurs or not. Dante has the soundest training program out there and I get results after every workout.

hahahaha.... you just posted someone else's post from a month ago... you don't know the first thing about DC... go ahead.... prove me right

alexxx · « **Reply #83 on:** October 28, 2006, 12:31:24 PM »

Quote from: WOOO on October 28, 2006, 04:30:57 AM

hahahaha.... you just posted someone else's post from a month ago... you don't know the first thing about DC... go ahead.... prove me right

I will let my awesome physique do the talk. You willing to do the same?

WOOO · « **Reply #84 on:** October 28, 2006, 08:25:53 PM »

Quote from: alexxx on October 28, 2006, 12:31:24 PM

I will let my awesome physique do the talk. You willing to do the same?

"do the talk" is that russian for do the dude? mega gay for pay envy

natural al · « **Reply #85 on:** October 29, 2006, 12:17:59 PM »

Quote from: alexxx on October 28, 2006, 12:31:24 PM

I will let my awesome physique do the talk. You willing to do the same?

I thought you gave up on DC training awhile ago....

alexxx · « **Reply #86 on:** October 29, 2006, 12:22:40 PM »

Quote from: natural al on October 29, 2006, 12:17:59 PM

I thought you gave up on DC training awhile ago....

Yeah I had to experiment. You know that feeling when you think you are not doing enough when somebody else is training 10 times longer than you... well now I know better.

natural al · « **Reply #87 on:** October 29, 2006, 01:38:05 PM »

Quote from: alexxx on October 29, 2006, 12:22:40 PM

Yeah I had to experiment. You know that feeling when you think you are not doing enough when somebody else is training 10 times longer than you... well now I know better.

I took 2 weeks off cause I blew out my back again. That was about 5 weeks ago. I just can't get going again. I don't know what the problem is, I start the week off real strong but by saturday I'm slacking off bigtime. I think I'm just menatlly burnt out with all the shit that's happened this year. I wanted to "stun" people that know me this year and nothing has gone right, nothing. Hoepfully I can end the year on a high note starting tomorrow.

alexxx · « **Reply #88 on:** October 29, 2006, 01:56:48 PM »

Quote from: natural al on October 29, 2006, 01:38:05 PM

I took 2 weeks off cause I blew out my back again. That was about 5 weeks ago. I just can't get going again. I don't know what the problem is, I start the week off real strong but by saturday I'm slacking off bigtime. I think I'm just menatlly burnt out with all the shit that's happened this year. I wanted to "stun" people that know me this year and nothing has gone right, nothing. Hoepfully I can end the year on a high note starting tomorrow.

Make yourself some goals my man. Since staying away from the gym a long time bothers me I practice some martial arts moves on my off days and do cardio to stay lean.

Have a weight in mind that you want to be able to lift in so long. Things like that that get you motivated. It is time for you to start training intense again and maybe you should even switch gyms or visit troopin and kulko at their gym.

WOOO · « **Reply #89 on:** October 29, 2006, 05:22:24 PM »

Quote from: alexxx on October 29, 2006, 01:56:48 PM

Make yourself some goals my man. Since staying away from the gym a long time bothers me I practice some martial arts moves on my off days and do cardio to stay lean.

Have a weight in mind that you want to be able to lift in so long. Things like that that get you motivated. It is time for you to start training intense again and maybe you should even switch gyms or visit troopin and kulko at their gym.

fruity

Richard2004 · « **Reply #90 on:** November 04, 2006, 06:15:37 AM »

Quote from: dawakaman on June 27, 2006, 03:39:42 PM

A typical training last about an hour or so, depending if you keep the pace up, which is pretty hard on leg day
BTW Sarcasm, DC training does not rely on (smith)machine exercises, but is sometimes recommended for safety reasons when training alone, because everything is taken to failure.

Peace
D

Duhhh...uhhh...who needs a "crutch" Smith Machine when you have a POWER RACK when "training alone"!!!

Opps, I'm sorry, I forgot! In many of these pansy-ass health-clubs/fitness-centers today they don't even have a power rack and their ignorant staff/PT's don't even know what one is???!!

What's this world coming to?!

Stubborn · « **Reply #91 on:** November 11, 2006, 05:54:34 PM »

So, has anyone seen any incredible gains through this method?

If so, do you use AAS or not?

Updates anyone?

Show me some numbers!

natural al · « **Reply #92 on:** November 12, 2006, 09:57:40 AM »

Quote from: Lift4Size on November 11, 2006, 05:54:34 PM

So, has anyone seen any incredible gains through this method?

If so, do you use AAS or not?

Updates anyone?

Show me some numbers!

do you want strength gains or BW gains? I went from 194-213 in about 6-8 weeks doing this back in 2004 before I put serious training on hold. I did my first real good blast over the summer and got back up to 210ish from about 199-200ish. The blast was about 8 weeks long but I was in the hospital for a stomach issue and missed a week of training then I had to deal with some other issues that effected my training. I'm just starting a new blast, actually started fooling around with it last week but this week I'm gonna go balls out. I've made some good strength gains, I've inclined 305 for 12RP on a smith, done the 130's on a flat and incline press both for 4-6 reps-I couldn't rest pause them but I wanted to do them just to say I could, shoulder pressed the 105's, military press 275 on a smith-I only lower the weight to my nose cause I have issues with my shoulders so my form isn't "good' by getbig standards but if I go all the way down I'm sore for days. I've maxed out a bunch of machines in my gym, leg pressed 915 for 6.....

youandme · « **Reply #93 on:** November 12, 2006, 10:10:03 AM »

I think it's great for a good laugh.

Stubborn · « **Reply #94 on:** November 12, 2006, 11:30:29 AM »

That smith machine really does wonders for poundage, eh? 305 on incline for 12 but only 130's for 4-6 on flat? Not that 130's arent respectable but if you could do 305 on a free incline setup you would be pushin 130's for at least equal reps.

Im more interested in strength gains from this training. I dont know how much size you could actually get out of such work but I cant imagine it to be much at all.

Hey, whatever works for ya though!

natural al · « **Reply #95 on:** November 12, 2006, 11:50:05 AM »

Quote from: Lift4Size on November 12, 2006, 11:30:29 AM

That smith machine really does wonders for poundage, eh? 305 on incline for 12 but only 130's for 4-6 on flat? Not that 130's arent respectable but if you could do 305 on a free incline setup you would be pushin 130's for at least equal reps.

Im more interested in strength gains from this training. I dont know how much size you could actually get out of such work but I cant imagine it to be much at all.

Hey, whatever works for ya though!

I did the 130's by myself, no spot no help getting it going or anything. I'm not a tall guy and I'm not making excuses but they were just really awkward for me to kick up into position, my left arm dragged real bad so the first rep was a killer. I did em one time in my workout rotation and dropped em because they were just to awkward to use, I had gotten the 120's up for 10 a couple of weeks before. I'm not making excuses, who knows, maybe I'm a wuss but that's what happened.

Stubborn · « **Reply #96 on:** November 12, 2006, 12:05:06 PM »

Not sayin your weak. I just dont use the smith but maybe once every few months and only for maybe one set of upright rows. I never tried it for bench but I see alot of guys use it for shoulders and wondered if they could actually press 315 for 5 reps with free weights.

I guess the answer is no?

natural al · « **Reply #97 on:** November 12, 2006, 12:52:31 PM »

Quote from: Lift4Size on November 12, 2006, 12:05:06 PM

Not sayin your weak. I just dont use the smith but maybe once every few months and only for maybe one set of upright rows. I never tried it for bench but I see alot of guys use it for shoulders and wondered if they could actually press 315 for 5 reps with free weights.

I guess the answer is no?

like I said I work out alone. At the time I did the 305 I was working out a rec center so my choices for a spot were either 85 year old guys or 14 year old kids....I didn't trust anybody to give me a real spot so I set the smith up with the stoppers set just high enough to keep me from killing myself if I got stuck at the bottom. I don't know if I could do 305 for 12 or not. About 5 years ago I couldn't train because I was going to school full time and working about 55-60 hours a week. I decided to see how much I could bench so I would go to my cousins house every sunday night for benching, he had a power rack and free weights up to 330, I got 330 for 2 at the end of that program. I don't remember how long I did it for, it was probably most of a semester.....

anyway that's niether here nor there. With DC you're constantly trying to beat your best lifts either by weight or by reps, you might only lift 2.5lbs more on a movement everytime or everyother time but it adds up and you can work up to some pretty respectable poundages. I know DC works with some powerlifters but I don't know what he has them do.

The Squadfather · « **Reply #98 on:** November 12, 2006, 01:14:12 PM »

Quote from: natural al on November 12, 2006, 09:57:40 AM

do you want strength gains or BW gains? I went from 194-213 in about 6-8 weeks doing this back in 2004 before I put serious training on hold. I did my first real good blast over the summer and got back up to 210ish from about 199-200ish. The blast was about 8 weeks long but I was in the hospital for a stomach issue and missed a week of training then I had to deal with some other issues that effected my training. I'm just starting a new blast, actually started fooling around with it last week but this week I'm gonna go balls out. I've made some good strength gains, I've inclined 305 for 12RP on a smith, done the 130's on a flat and incline press both for 4-6 reps-I couldn't rest pause them but I wanted to do them just to say I could, shoulder pressed the 105's, military press 275 on a smith-I only lower the weight to my nose cause I have issues with my shoulders so my form isn't "good' by getbig standards but if I go all the way down I'm sore for days. I've maxed out a bunch of machines in my gym, leg pressed 915 for 6.....

that's good weight.

natural al · « **Reply #99 on:** November 12, 2006, 01:29:11 PM »

Quote from: The Squadfather on November 12, 2006, 01:14:12 PM

that's good weight.

thank you. I've got no delusions of grandeur or anything, I know my form probably sucks on some things but I don't have anyone to evaluate it, I do alot of smith machine work for safety reasons, some movements I'm weak as hell on cause I just have not done them for along time. I just started doing hack squats and the weight I use is pathetic but I'm sure it's gonna go up to respectable levels before too long.