Author Topic: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?  (Read 37659 times)

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2006, 06:28:11 AM »
smith machines are a tool.  I maxed out on the incline on the smith at 305 for 12 reps at about 195lbs, the reps were rest paused but that's where I ended up.  Now I'm usign a precor machine in my rotationa nd I've almost got it maxed out so I've got to find another alternative.

There's this whole dogma of "machines suck" and it's just not true, machines dont' suck...they're just another avenue to take, another option and if you are close minded you're limiting yourself.  I'd love to train on the old 70's natulus machines just because I've never used them but I'd love to seee the results.

Same here.

There is no question that machines are easier than free weights. Anybody can leg press about twice as much as he can squat, at least.
But that is not the question in DC.
DC means that you have to get stronger regarding one movement.

natural al

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #126 on: December 19, 2006, 06:35:35 AM »
Same here.

There is no question that machines are easier than free weights. Anybody can leg press about twice as much as he can squat, at least.
But that is not the question in DC.
DC means that you have to get stronger regarding one movement.


and once you "top out' on that movement you drop it and pick up a new one that you can becoem a monster on.  I start my next blast january 2nd and I can't wait to bury 1/2 the movements I plan on using...it's gonna be fun as hell.
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #127 on: December 20, 2006, 05:42:45 AM »
well, if you gave it an honest try then I can't fault you for it.  I'd like to know what kind of training you did prior to starting DC and what you're program looked like while you were doing it before you stopped.  DC is really a totally different mindset and it takes alot of getting used to.  IF you ever want to readdress it in the future post your routine and we can take a look at it....who knows maybe we can do a few little tweaks and you'll feel better about it.

First, some quick stats:  31 y/o, 6’0, 255 lbs, @ 12-14% BF; best lifts are 405 bench, 550 squat, and 575 deadlift (all competition in July); been lifting 6 years.

I was at a 3-day split before DC (Mon, Wed, Fri); Chest/Tri, Back/Bi, Legs/Shoulders/Traps (calves were trained with abs 3 times a week).  3 exercises of 2-3 sets per muscleg group (except traps, which is just very heavy shrugs).  Rep range usually 6-10, except deadlift and squats which were 5x5.

OK, so here is what I did for DC:

U1
Incline Smith Press (11-15rp)
Military Press (11-20rp)
Close Grip Bench Press (11-20 rp)
Close Grip Pulldown (11-15rp)
Deadlift (6-9, 9-12)

L1
Preacher Curl (11-20rp)
Hammer DB Curl (10-20)
Leg Press Calf Raises (10-12)
Seated Leg Curl (15-30rp)
Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

U2
Machine Press (11-15rp)
Machine Military Press (11-15rp)
EZ Bar Triceps Extensions (15-30rp)
Front Pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-Bar Row (10-12) (done with barbell in corner)

L2
Dumbbell Curls (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip 1-Arm Cable Curls (10-20)
Seated Calf Raises (10-12)
Sumo Leg Press (15-25)
Hack Squat (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

U3
Decline Bench Press (11-15rp)
Upright Row (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip Bench Press (11-20rp)
Front Rack Chinups (11-20rp)
Rack Deadlifts (6-9, 9-12)

L3
EZ Bar Curls (11-20rp)
Cable Forearm Curls (10-20)
Smith Machine Calf Raises (10-12)
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (15-25)
Front Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

I did extreme stretching for each bodypart after it was worked.  I did (and still do) cardio and abs on Tues, Thurs, and Sat.  Cardio is 30 minutes on bike (5 minutes getting to target HR, 20 minutes target, 5 minutes getting below target HR).  Abs alternate between the following:

ABS 1
Cable Crunch (4x30)
Reverse Crunch Plus (extra extension and hold at top; 4x10)
Oblique Crunch on Roman Chair (4x20, no rest)
Floor Crunch (4x20)

ABS 2
Cable Crunch (alternating sides, 4x60)
Lying Leg Raise (on bench, 4x15)
4-Count Flutter Kicks (3x30)
Feet-Propped Crunch (2x30)

I just feel that I am incapable of giving all of my bodyparts the attention they need with the DC volume and split.  For instance, if I am not shrugging and doing something specifically targeting my rear delts, my whole trap/shoulder region gets out of balance. 
ChuckNorrisFearsMe

natural al

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #128 on: December 20, 2006, 06:50:39 AM »
First, some quick stats:  31 y/o, 6’0, 255 lbs, @ 12-14% BF; best lifts are 405 bench, 550 squat, and 575 deadlift (all competition in July); been lifting 6 years.

I was at a 3-day split before DC (Mon, Wed, Fri); Chest/Tri, Back/Bi, Legs/Shoulders/Traps (calves were trained with abs 3 times a week).  3 exercises of 2-3 sets per muscleg group (except traps, which is just very heavy shrugs).  Rep range usually 6-10, except deadlift and squats which were 5x5.

OK, so here is what I did for DC:

U1
Incline Smith Press (11-15rp)
Military Press (11-20rp)
Close Grip Bench Press (11-20 rp)
Close Grip Pulldown (11-15rp)
Deadlift (6-9, 9-12)

L1
Preacher Curl (11-20rp)
Hammer DB Curl (10-20)
Leg Press Calf Raises (10-12)
Seated Leg Curl (15-30rp)
Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

U2
Machine Press (11-15rp)
Machine Military Press (11-15rp)
EZ Bar Triceps Extensions (15-30rp)
Front Pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-Bar Row (10-12) (done with barbell in corner)

L2
Dumbbell Curls (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip 1-Arm Cable Curls (10-20)
Seated Calf Raises (10-12)
Sumo Leg Press (15-25)
Hack Squat (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

U3
Decline Bench Press (11-15rp)
Upright Row (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip Bench Press (11-20rp)
Front Rack Chinups (11-20rp)
Rack Deadlifts (6-9, 9-12)

L3
EZ Bar Curls (11-20rp)
Cable Forearm Curls (10-20)
Smith Machine Calf Raises (10-12)
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (15-25)
Front Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

I did extreme stretching for each bodypart after it was worked.  I did (and still do) cardio and abs on Tues, Thurs, and Sat.  Cardio is 30 minutes on bike (5 minutes getting to target HR, 20 minutes target, 5 minutes getting below target HR).  Abs alternate between the following:

ABS 1
Cable Crunch (4x30)
Reverse Crunch Plus (extra extension and hold at top; 4x10)
Oblique Crunch on Roman Chair (4x20, no rest)
Floor Crunch (4x20)

ABS 2
Cable Crunch (alternating sides, 4x60)
Lying Leg Raise (on bench, 4x15)
4-Count Flutter Kicks (3x30)
Feet-Propped Crunch (2x30)

I just feel that I am incapable of giving all of my bodyparts the attention they need with the DC volume and split.  For instance, if I am not shrugging and doing something specifically targeting my rear delts, my whole trap/shoulder region gets out of balance. 


well I can't fault the routine and you obviously have experience lifting so that's not the problem.  Like I said it's sometimes just changing a mindset.  I totally understand what your saying bout the rear delts and how you feel about certain aspects of the pysique that may get overlooked.  The only thing I can tell you is DC has you baically  doing your rack deads in a manner that are supposed to hit the traps, you pull up and back with your shoulder girdle at the top of each rep.

Well you gave it a good go, maybe try it again in the future, I can't really find anything wrong just by making a quick observation but i'm not an expert I'm just a guy who knows the routine really, really well.

You could always play around with rep ranges and stuff to help you adjust to the low volume but I'm not sure if that would "fix" it for ya.

If you're gonna do DC again go over to intensemuscle and click around in the dogpound section, lots of really good info is there.
nasser=piece of shit

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #129 on: December 20, 2006, 07:53:27 AM »
First, some quick stats:  31 y/o, 6’0, 255 lbs, @ 12-14% BF; best lifts are 405 bench, 550 squat, and 575 deadlift (all competition in July); been lifting 6 years.

I was at a 3-day split before DC (Mon, Wed, Fri); Chest/Tri, Back/Bi, Legs/Shoulders/Traps (calves were trained with abs 3 times a week).  3 exercises of 2-3 sets per muscleg group (except traps, which is just very heavy shrugs).  Rep range usually 6-10, except deadlift and squats which were 5x5.

OK, so here is what I did for DC:

U1
Incline Smith Press (11-15rp)
Military Press (11-20rp)
Close Grip Bench Press (11-20 rp)
Close Grip Pulldown (11-15rp)
Deadlift (6-9, 9-12)

L1
Preacher Curl (11-20rp)
Hammer DB Curl (10-20)
Leg Press Calf Raises (10-12)
Seated Leg Curl (15-30rp)
Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

U2
Machine Press (11-15rp)
Machine Military Press (11-15rp)
EZ Bar Triceps Extensions (15-30rp)
Front Pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-Bar Row (10-12) (done with barbell in corner)

L2
Dumbbell Curls (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip 1-Arm Cable Curls (10-20)
Seated Calf Raises (10-12)
Sumo Leg Press (15-25)
Hack Squat (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

U3
Decline Bench Press (11-15rp)
Upright Row (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip Bench Press (11-20rp)
Front Rack Chinups (11-20rp)
Rack Deadlifts (6-9, 9-12)

L3
EZ Bar Curls (11-20rp)
Cable Forearm Curls (10-20)
Smith Machine Calf Raises (10-12)
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (15-25)
Front Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)

I did extreme stretching for each bodypart after it was worked.  I did (and still do) cardio and abs on Tues, Thurs, and Sat.  Cardio is 30 minutes on bike (5 minutes getting to target HR, 20 minutes target, 5 minutes getting below target HR).  Abs alternate between the following:

ABS 1
Cable Crunch (4x30)
Reverse Crunch Plus (extra extension and hold at top; 4x10)
Oblique Crunch on Roman Chair (4x20, no rest)
Floor Crunch (4x20)

ABS 2
Cable Crunch (alternating sides, 4x60)
Lying Leg Raise (on bench, 4x15)
4-Count Flutter Kicks (3x30)
Feet-Propped Crunch (2x30)

I just feel that I am incapable of giving all of my bodyparts the attention they need with the DC volume and split.  For instance, if I am not shrugging and doing something specifically targeting my rear delts, my whole trap/shoulder region gets out of balance. 


I think you have a pretty solid routine but need to stick with it for a while longer. If nothing else think of this as strength training. I noticed you are doing upright rows for shoulders ?? are they overpowering or what? If I where you I would stick with the basics and work on the lifts you want to be stronger on.

Shoulders get hit from everyangle on any presses. I like to incorporate behind the neck presses.

Do another 8-12 weeks or you will always wonder what if I kept on going what would have been my results..
just push some weight!

natural al

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #130 on: December 20, 2006, 08:47:39 AM »
I think you have a pretty solid routine but need to stick with it for a while longer. If nothing else think of this as strength training. I noticed you are doing upright rows for shoulders ?? are they overpowering or what? If I where you I would stick with the basics and work on the lifts you want to be stronger on.

Shoulders get hit from everyangle on any presses. I like to incorporate behind the neck presses.

Do another 8-12 weeks or you will always wonder what if I kept on going what would have been my results..

not to speak for him but lots of guys get sick of doing presses everytime they do shoulders, I did upright rows for awhile but they don't do my rotator cuff any favors so I dropped em.  I've also done what I call "power laterals", they're kinda hard to describe but you adjust you're body mechanics while doing regular side laterals so that you can handle some pretty big poundages. 
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #131 on: December 20, 2006, 04:01:10 PM »
The reason Smith Machines are used in DC are for safety.

If you want to know why, read about the program and stop making blanket statements.
Go hard or go home!

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #132 on: December 20, 2006, 05:03:03 PM »
The reason Smith Machines are used in DC are for safety.

If you want to know why, read about the program and stop making blanket statements.

Smith machines are for pussies!
just push some weight!

natural al

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #133 on: December 21, 2006, 05:39:17 AM »
The reason Smith Machines are used in DC are for safety.

If you want to know why, read about the program and stop making blanket statements.


exactly.  What's with all the hate on the smith machine?  oh, yeah, it doesn't build "stabalizer muscles"...ok, well if I compete and loose a show cause I don't have big stabilizers then I'll worry about them.

Smith machines are for pussies!

c'mon alexxx...you must be joking.
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #134 on: December 27, 2006, 05:18:23 PM »
Smith machines are for pussies!
Until I started DC, I didn't use Smith Machines alot, but they are necessary for DC and if gaining several pounds of muscle in three months is "pussy", so be it.

Hey, you want to send me an XXXXL size T Shirt with " I'm a Pussy" written on it. I'll wear it when I train.
Go hard or go home!

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #135 on: December 27, 2006, 07:13:11 PM »
Until I started DC, I didn't use Smith Machines alot, but they are necessary for DC and if gaining several pounds of muscle in three months is "pussy", so be it.

Hey, you want to send me an XXXXL size T Shirt with " I'm a Pussy" written on it. I'll wear it when I train.

Post a pic "big guy"!

Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.
just push some weight!

natural al

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #136 on: December 29, 2006, 10:25:09 AM »
Post a pic "big guy"!

Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.

Dante doesn't care if you use machines or free weights..as long as you're getting bigger and stronger isn't that all that matters?
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #137 on: December 29, 2006, 10:33:49 AM »

I just feel that I am incapable of giving all of my bodyparts the attention they need with the DC volume and split.  For instance, if I am not shrugging and doing something specifically targeting my rear delts, my whole trap/shoulder region gets out of balance. 


Your traps and rear delts are hit when you do deadlifts.  If you are using weight that pushes you, these should not be a problem.  I haven't been doing any trap or rear delt work and both are improving.
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #138 on: December 29, 2006, 04:14:28 PM »

Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.

This is Dante himself from Ironman Magazine, July 2006:

"...its very easy to save yourself on a Smith Incline press at a failure point. You just turn the bar and latch the weight. I would hate to see one of my trainees doing free weight incline bar presses with a guillotine bar on his neck at failure...regardless, a lot of people misconstrue this as a love for machines, when in actuality I'm trying to keep safety in mind for someone who does not have a spotter. Its as simple as that. My choice would always be a free weight over a machine if it can be done safely. That's why I tend to use power racks and Smith Machines a lot".

And by the way, have you done DC yourself?
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #139 on: December 30, 2006, 01:59:11 AM »
Your traps and rear delts are hit when you do deadlifts.  If you are using weight that pushes you, these should not be a problem.  I haven't been doing any trap or rear delt work and both are improving.

Not me.  If I'm not doing heavy shrugs, my traps go nowhere.  And if I'm not doing rear delt isolation moves with dumbbells or cables, my front and side delts start to overpower the rear ones.  My body is just to that point.
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #140 on: December 30, 2006, 09:00:45 AM »
This is Dante himself from Ironman Magazine, July 2006:

"...its very easy to save yourself on a Smith Incline press at a failure point. You just turn the bar and latch the weight. I would hate to see one of my trainees doing free weight incline bar presses with a guillotine bar on his neck at failure...regardless, a lot of people misconstrue this as a love for machines, when in actuality I'm trying to keep safety in mind for someone who does not have a spotter. Its as simple as that. My choice would always be a free weight over a machine if it can be done safely. That's why I tend to use power racks and Smith Machines a lot".

And by the way, have you done DC yourself?

That's for backing up my point. It clearly says that Dante prefers freeweights over machines but because his trainees cannot do them safely them must alter for the easy baby version.

I have done DC with good results!
just push some weight!

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #141 on: December 30, 2006, 10:12:58 AM »

Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.

That's for backing up my point. It clearly says that Dante prefers freeweights over machines but because his trainees cannot do them safely them must alter for the easy baby version.



I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Go hard or go home!

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #142 on: December 30, 2006, 10:15:30 AM »
I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself.

DC is all about causing the greatest amount of strain on the muscle with only one set and then recover and do more. Tell me who is going to be thicker, a bodybuilder that benches 500 x 10 on free weight incline or a bodybuilder that does the same on the smith machine?
just push some weight!

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #143 on: December 30, 2006, 05:49:36 PM »
The bodybuilder on the Smith Machine because the free weight guy is going to get hurt and either be in rehab for six months or else permanently injured so that he won't be able to bench more than 300 for the rest of his life.

Mine (and Dante's ) point is that safety is an important consideration. It only takes one injury to knock someone out of the box. Take it from someone who in his earlier younger past did stupid ego gratification things like that and ended up with a rotator cuff injury that set me back for many many months.

                                                               big smart "pussy"
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #144 on: December 30, 2006, 06:12:13 PM »
The bodybuilder on the Smith Machine because the free weight guy is going to get hurt and either be in rehab for six months or else permanently injured so that he won't be able to bench more than 300 for the rest of his life.

Mine (and Dante's ) point is that safety is an important consideration. It only takes one injury to knock someone out of the box. Take it from someone who in his earlier younger past did stupid ego gratification things like that and ended up with a rotator cuff injury that set me back for many many months.

                                                               big smart "pussy"

 You didn't answer the question.
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #145 on: December 30, 2006, 08:25:01 PM »
The bodybuilder on the Smith Machine

I did answer. That's enough. I'm outa here. I've got better things to do with my time than argue back and forth with you. See ya...
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #146 on: December 30, 2006, 09:21:55 PM »
The bodybuilder on the Smith Machine

I did answer. That's enough. I'm outa here. I've got better things to do with my time than argue back and forth with you. See ya...

Here the big numbers seem to be confusing you so to be safe here are the training poundages you can handle.

free weight bench press 100 pounds x 10
smith bench press 100 pounds x 10

Now make your decision.
just push some weight!

natural al

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #147 on: January 01, 2007, 06:13:09 AM »
Here the big numbers seem to be confusing you so to be safe here are the training poundages you can handle.

free weight bench press 100 pounds x 10
smith bench press 100 pounds x 10

Now make your decision.

doesn't matter.  What matters is how much they improve on which lift over the course of a few months.  If the guy doing free weights only ends up with 135*11 rest paused and tops out but the guy on the smith goes all the way to 195*13 and is still progressing then the guy on the smith is getting more out of what he put into it.
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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #148 on: January 01, 2007, 10:06:56 AM »
doesn't matter.  What matters is how much they improve on which lift over the course of a few months.  If the guy doing free weights only ends up with 135*11 rest paused and tops out but the guy on the smith goes all the way to 195*13 and is still progressing then the guy on the smith is getting more out of what he put into it.

Natural al unplug your ears or open your eyes when you read!! You did not answer the question.
just push some weight!

natural al

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Re: DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?
« Reply #149 on: January 01, 2007, 11:45:04 AM »
Natural al unplug your ears or open your eyes when you read!! You did not answer the question.

sorry....guess I lost track with all the bickering...what was the question again?
nasser=piece of shit