DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?

[alexxx]

What builds bigger muscles machines or free weights.

[natural al]

What builds bigger muscles machines or free weights.

like I said, it doesn't matter for the most part.  Yeah, yeah...I know it's "pc" to say "free weights build bigger muscles" but honestly I don't know how much of that I buy.  Like I said if a guy starts off with 100lbs on the smith and ends up using 230 and is still progressing-getting a good number of reps and increasing weight-then I honestly don't know how much it matters.

don't give me the whole "you don't build stabilizer muscls with machines" crapp either.  I could care less about stabizer muscles, if I loose a show because of stabilizers then I'll worry about them.

I'm not saying free wieghts are bad at all, what I'm saying is I don't loose any sleep over not using them for some movements, it's all about progressing.  You're muscles don't "know" you're using a machine, they know you're lifting 10lbs more than you did the last workout and beating the hell out of them so they'll react to that stress.

[alexxx]

like I said, it doesn't matter for the most part.  Yeah, yeah...I know it's "pc" to say "free weights build bigger muscles" but honestly I don't know how much of that I buy.  Like I said if a guy starts off with 100lbs on the smith and ends up using 230 and is still progressing-getting a good number of reps and increasing weight-then I honestly don't know how much it matters.

don't give me the whole "you don't build stabilizer muscls with machines" crapp either.  I could care less about stabizer muscles, if I loose a show because of stabilizers then I'll worry about them.

I'm not saying free wieghts are bad at all, what I'm saying is I don't loose any sleep over not using them for some movements, it's all about progressing.  You're muscles don't "know" you're using a machine, they know you're lifting 10lbs more than you did the last workout and beating the hell out of them so they'll react to that stress.

It is funny how you guys ignore the question. Maybe you need to ask Dante yourself.

[natural al]

It is funny how you guys ignore the question. Maybe you need to ask Dante yourself.

how am i ignoring the question?  I answered it...maybe you're just having a hard time keeping up.  Read it slower next time, maybe you'll start to understand it if you read a sentence and take a break for a few minutes then come back.

[alexxx]

how am i ignoring the question?  I answered it...maybe you're just having a hard time keeping up.  Read it slower next time, maybe you'll start to understand it if you read a sentence and take a break for a few minutes then come back.

Ok natural al you can keep on running around in circles if you wish.

[DOGGCRAPP]

my opinion? Whatever tools you use to accomplish the job is fine with me. I think you guys are arguing over something that doesnt need to be argued over. If Skippy loves squats and Horace loves hacks and they both have built great legs, does it really matter?

My preference? Whatever you have to use to progressively rest pause SAFELY on. If you have a training partner then I say bomb away with free weight inclines with a barbell, you dont have to worry about getting stuck, he will save you every time during your rest pauses. If you dont have a training partner I would much rather see you on an incline smythe machine than be caught with 315lbs on a free weight barbell guillotine yelling "HELP!" when you tried to go for that extra rep and it wasnt in the cards that day.

[natural al]

my opinion? Whatever tools you use to accomplish the job is fine with me. I think you guys are arguing over something that doesnt need to be argued over. If Skippy loves squats and Horace loves hacks and they both have built great legs, does it really matter?

My preference? Whatever you have to use to progressively rest pause SAFELY on. If you have a training partner then I say bomb away with free weight inclines with a barbell, you dont have to worry about getting stuck, he will save you every time during your rest pauses. If you dont have a training partner I would much rather see you on an incline smythe machine than be caught with 315lbs on a free weight barbell guillotine yelling "HELP!" when you tried to go for that extra rep and it wasnt in the cards that day.

I dont' really think anyone was arguing...I think alexxx was just being a dick, I answered his question awhile ago.

I'm gonna pretty much just post in this thread for awhile....I need a break from all the bitchin on the g&O boards..I'm just gonna shut up and train for awhile and we'll see what happens.

I'm expecting big things this year....that's all I'll say.....

[DOGGCRAPP]

Nothing against anyone on this thread and please dont take this personally Alexxx, but I always defer to Natural Al as the goto man on this site when it comes to my methods. We have spoken alot thru PM's, from that I recognize that he has spent a great deal reading what ive written and knows my methods thoroughly. If I ever get a question at mayhem referring to something they saw on getbig or here in PM's I tell people to pay close attention to what Natural Al says over here because he is spot on.

[DOGGCRAPP]

I dont' really think anyone was arguing...I think alexxx was just being a dick, I answered his question awhile ago.

I'm gonna pretty much just post in this thread for awhile....I need a break from all the bitchin on the g&O boards..I'm just gonna shut up and train for awhile and we'll see what happens.

I'm expecting big things this year....that's all I'll say.....

arguing=referring to egoatdoor and alexxx

[natural al]

Nothing against anyone on this thread and please dont take this personally Alexxx, but I always defer to Natural Al as the goto man on this site when it comes to my methods. We have spoken alot thru PM's, from that I recognize that he has spent a great deal reading what ive written and knows my methods thoroughly. If I ever get a question at mayhem referring to something they saw on getbig or here in PM's I tell people to pay close attention to what Natural Al says over here because he is spot on.

shucks.....thanks, man.

If there's one thing that I can say is that I really did try to wrap my mind around your concepts right from the start.  I didn't fully believe them but I set everything aside and went for it and got great results.  It's funny cause really alot of it is such common sense...the mags confuse the hell out of people, I'm glad I found someone who could cut through the BS and just say "hey this is what I think works"  

it's a whole different mindset and if you can do it the way you're supposed to I honestly don't see how you can fail.

This is gonna be the first time I can blast away without worrying about things outside of training, I'm very interested to see what come of this.  

I'm hoping to put it all together and step on stage at the end of the year...we'll see....maybe by summertime I'll go train with troop and Kulco if everything works out and we can get some cool training footage of a lifetime natty using you're concepts so everyone on this site will finally stfu.

[alexxx]

Nothing against anyone on this thread and please dont take this personally Alexxx, but I always defer to Natural Al as the goto man on this site when it comes to my methods. We have spoken alot thru PM's, from that I recognize that he has spent a great deal reading what ive written and knows my methods thoroughly. If I ever get a question at mayhem referring to something they saw on getbig or here in PM's I tell people to pay close attention to what Natural Al says over here because he is spot on.

That's fine Dante. If you say natural al knows your program best then who am I to argue. I do respect what natural al says but he has a little attitude to himself.

Natural al go blow a goat!

I'm just kidding it's all good.

For me when I think of brute strength I think of people lifting enourmous weights with the bar. It doesn't make sense to me if you alter for the easier version when you have the means to do otherwise. It's like all of those fat chicks on the machine that only go 3 miles per hour for 10 minutes!

[natural al]

That's fine Dante. If you say natural al knows your program best then who am I to argue. I do respect what natural al says but he has a little attitude to himself.

Natural al go blow a goat!

I'm just kidding it's all good.

For me when I think of brute strength I think of people lifting enourmous weights with the bar. It doesn't make sense to me if you alter for the easier version when you have the means to do otherwise. It's like all of those fat chicks on the machine that only go 3 miles per hour for 10 minutes!

it's just a different mindset and it is hard to stop thinking in terms of "free weights only".  I almost did one of those 500 word submissions on MD talking about the old "free weight only" stigma that exists with some people. 

Machines still take a beating from the old days when they sucked now they're alot better....I'm not saying they're better than free wieghts but I dont' roll my eyes when someone says they can move this much weight on a machine.

[natural al]

first day of the new blast...man I kicked my own ass today, started with bi's then forearms then back width and thickness.  Funniest thing was doing my pulldowns, there were 2 dudes doing pulldowns with 50lbs and I walked over and started repping with 220.  Anyway it was a brutal workout.  If everything goes as planned I'm gonna be doing the natural michigan or a show like it at the end of the year.

[davie]

first day of the new blast...man I kicked my own ass today, started with bi's then forearms then back width and thickness.  Funniest thing was doing my pulldowns, there were 2 dudes doing pulldowns with 50lbs and I walked over and started repping with 220.  Anyway it was a brutal workout.  If everything goes as planned I'm gonna be doing the natural michigan or a show like it at the end of the year.

Hey bro can i ask y u did bi's before back??

davie

[natural al]

Hey bro can i ask y u did bi's before back??

davie

right now, no.  the only reason I changed that aspect of the split is that my wrists are not in the best of shape so my grip is terrible.  I got slammed in a really awkward way when I wrestled and it messed up both wrists, even with straps my grip still sucks.  I just can't train bi's and forearms before back right now.  maybe it'll change in the future but right now it's width, thickness, bi's and then forearms...I also did abs.  I'm looking into a different type of strap that might help me out but "regular" straps just don't do enough...

[natural al]

I'm also gonna be doing 2 types of deadlifts for this blast, one will be a "high rack dead" with the pins set right at knee level and the other will be deads off the floor, both types I'm going to concentrate on pulling up and back at the top to really nail my traps.  I started off a little light so I could get the feel for these but I'm really gonna pile the weight on over the course of the next few weeks.

[davie]

Oh u do back then bis?!

The way i read ur routine it sed bis then back, thats y i asked.

davie

[natural al]

Oh u do back then bis?!

The way i read ur routine it sed bis then back, thats y i asked.

davie

the more advanced split is bi's, forearms, width and then thickness.  Due to the wrist/grip issues I have I don't think I could do it that way so I "modified" that aspect of the split, usually I stay textbook with whatever DC recommends but I honestly don't think I could grip the bar if I did foreams first....my grip just sucks ass.

[davie]

the more advanced split is bi's, forearms, width and then thickness.  Due to the wrist/grip issues I have I don't think I could do it that way so I "modified" that aspect of the split, usually I stay textbook with whatever DC recommends but I honestly don't think I could grip the bar if I did foreams first....my grip just sucks ass.

I understand what ur saying about not so good grip. Im kinda the same. I have changed to double overhand grip with deads instead of one over one under (to try protect biceps) recently and iv had to drop weight downa  bit as my grip isnt that great now.

Its also my grip that gives out 1st in shrugs too, so im thinking of getting straps.

I was geven straps once that u only put ur thumb through before wrapping it arounf bar and wrist, ever heard of them??

davie

[natural al]

I understand what ur saying about not so good grip. Im kinda the same. I have changed to double overhand grip with deads instead of one over one under (to try protect biceps) recently and iv had to drop weight downa  bit as my grip isnt that great now.

Its also my grip that gives out 1st in shrugs too, so im thinking of getting straps.

I was geven straps once that u only put ur thumb through before wrapping it arounf bar and wrist, ever heard of them??

davie

I've never heard of those...I know they used to sell actual hooks that went with wrist straps...I don't know if they still do

[davie]

I've never heard of those...I know they used to sell actual hooks that went with wrist straps...I don't know if they still do

These ones are weird, i mean u literally just put thumb through, then put them unders the bar and then around ur hole wrist b4 wrapping whats left around the abr again, iv never really used them but am going to on back/shoulder/traps day on monday.

guess u can always use grippers to strengthen grip, mine arent to hard to close so i use 3 fingers and thumb, then 2 fingers and thumb and get as many as i can.

davie

[natural al]

These ones are weird, i mean u literally just put thumb through, then put them unders the bar and then around ur hole wrist b4 wrapping whats left around the abr again, iv never really used them but am going to on back/shoulder/traps day on monday.

guess u can always use grippers to strengthen grip, mine arent to hard to close so i use 3 fingers and thumb, then 2 fingers and thumb and get as many as i can.

davie

I've got actual wrist problems so grippers don't really help, they just aggrivate the wrist, might be a problem with the tendons, I don't know I never had it looked at.

[natural al]

just got back from chest, shoulders and tri's...I moved some heavy ass weight today..I can't wait to see what I'm moving at the end of this blast.  BF% is down also, viens are coming in especially in the forearms and bi's, the waist is down and abs are becoming more visable.

[egoatdoor]

my opinion? Whatever tools you use to accomplish the job is fine with me. I think you guys are arguing over something that doesnt need to be argued over. If Skippy loves squats and Horace loves hacks and they both have built great legs, does it really matter?

My preference? Whatever you have to use to progressively rest pause SAFELY on. If you have a training partner then I say bomb away with free weight inclines with a barbell, you dont have to worry about getting stuck, he will save you every time during your rest pauses. If you dont have a training partner I would much rather see you on an incline smythe machine than be caught with 315lbs on a free weight barbell guillotine yelling "HELP!" when you tried to go for that extra rep and it wasnt in the cards that day.

"Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.

That's for backing up my point. It clearly says that Dante prefers freeweights over machines but because his trainees cannot do them safely them must alter for the easy baby version."

Take that Alexx. So, are Smith Machines still for pussies and babies?

[natural al]

I got a PM from a guy named mar10...I tied to respond but it said you had my response blocked.  If you read this post, I didn't blow you off and I'll respond to it later this weekend on this thread, I typed the whole thing out and then it told me I was blocked, I don't have time to retype it right now.

edit-here's a good link to check out:

http://timwescott.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Talk&action=display&thread=1101334382&page=1

everything in-humans says is gold.  You can also check out intensemuscle.com, lots fo guys over there know thier shit...but, if you're gonna post a question post it in the pound puppy section to avoid getting ripped on.

after you check out those sites if you have any questions post them here and I'll do my best to help ya out, if I don't know I' sure I can find out for ya.

if you're really eager do a search for the old "dogg logg" on google, you might find it you might not, I've read and reread that thing about 50 times, it's a good read and everything is laid out there reall well.