DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?

[davie]

inclines and declines are fine...flats place the body in a position that is frowned upon by most DC guys.  If you have someone to help you with the DB's go for it and give it a shot and see what happens, it might work.  You'll never know until you try.  I did it myself so it was a pain in the ass.

Yeh by urself is annoying, it takes alot of strength just to role back and get that 1st rep up?!

I might do slight incline BB (at incline between flat and the normal incline angle.), incline DB, and decline DB.

DO u have to keep the exercis order? Id prefer to do shoulders 1st, then back then chest, kinda makes sense as if u do chest and shoulders back to back, the trris will get hammered and the 1st exercise will effect the 2nd, putting back in between will giv tris a wee rest?!

davie

[natural al]

Yeh by urself is annoying, it takes alot of strength just to role back and get that 1st rep up?!

I might do slight incline BB (at incline between flat and the normal incline angle.), incline DB, and decline DB.

DO u have to keep the exercis order? Id prefer to do shoulders 1st, then back then chest, kinda makes sense as if u do chest and shoulders back to back, the trris will get hammered and the 1st exercise will effect the 2nd, putting back in between will giv tris a wee rest?!

davie

when I got up to the 120's on inclines and flat's my right arm dragged real bad when I tried to get into position, don't know why and I couldn't fix it for some reason.  The 130's were almost impossible.

I've experimented with doing chest, back width, shoulders, back thickness and tri's in that order but I always go back to the regular split and set up.  I don't "suppose" it would hurt to give it a shot but I'd do chest before shoulders never in the reverse order. 

[davie]

Even if shoulders is a part im wanting to focus on??

davie

[davie]

ALSO, do any of u use rack chins, my gym doesnt have chinning bar, and this si probs only way i could do it (kinda like that fella WOJO). BAck an incline bench near the squat rack (highest point nearest squat rack), and put my feet on that so my ass is the closest part to the ground and then do chins wi Db on lap. Are these effective??

davie

[natural al]

Even if shoulders is a part im wanting to focus on??

davie

hmmmmmm.......I don't know.  You gotta do what you gotta do, if your shoulders suck or you want to focus on them then what the hell?  Why not.  DC is prolly gonna kill me for saying that so I'll put this disclaimer on it:  The program is set up like this for a reason, stick with it cause it works, once you start changing to many things your not doing DC anymore.

I would say do at least 1 blast as it's supposed to be done, chest-shoulders-tris-back width and then thickness.  After one good blast re-assess it and go from there.  The program works, trust me but if you still have a weak BP look at what exactly your doing before you start changing the routine around.

[davie]

hmmmmmm.......I don't know.  You gotta do what you gotta do, if your shoulders suck or you want to focus on them then what the hell?  Why not.  DC is prolly gonna kill me for saying that so I'll put this disclaimer on it:  The program is set up like this for a reason, stick with it cause it works, once you start changing to many things your not doing DC anymore.

I would say do at least 1 blast as it's supposed to be done, chest-shoulders-tris-back width and then thickness.  After one good blast re-assess it and go from there.  The program works, trust me but if you still have a weak BP look at what exactly your doing before you start changing the routine around.

Yeh i guess. And i suppose that even if i do Db inclines 1st, i dont suppose that will effect my Military press etc for my shoulders??!!

Any opinions on rack chins?

davie

[natural al]

Yeh i guess. And i suppose that even if i do Db inclines 1st, i dont suppose that will effect my Military press etc for my shoulders??!!

Any opinions on rack chins?

davie

I don't do rack chins since I train alone....some guys do and I guess I could but I want to be in and out so my routine is kinda tailored for me to get in and out of the gym pretty quick.  There is a specific way to do them, go to intensemuscle.com and look them up, there's good explanations of stuff on that site.

[alexxx]

Cheers alexx, funny seeing u do a low volume high frequency program wen i thought u loved mega volume?!

It does seem strange rotating between 3 exercise per body part all the time, b/c in theory that means that if i barbell bench on day one (monday), i wont then barbell bench again until monday 2 weeks later??!!

Im kind of having a cruising week this week, went kinda heavy on monday, didnt really do legs yesterday (still recovering from ankle ligament prob), and wont push it too hard on fri.

Even wen i go big guns on everythig next week, ill have to start slow on legs until im confident my ankles better!!

davie

I am not doing DC at the momment but have done it with great success and am considering getting back into it.

[alexxx]

people who have benched using this program usually run into one or more of the following problems:

shoulder pain
pec strain or tear
pain in the bi

the negatives outweigh the positives in this case.  Another thing you might want to think about is the simple fact that using dB's for pressing movements usually ends up being counter productive.  Once I got really heavy it was too much of a hassle to get the DB's up and into position and doing it 3 times while keeping rest periods short was next to impossible.

You will have all of the above if you do not know how to bench press properly. To build a real chest you must look at the how the best chests where built.

FLAT BENCH PRESS

I was dong bench press with the DC program going down to 5 reps then another RP by myself and had amazing results. The trick is to warm it up properly.

Again I cannot speak for Dante and I know he hates it when I bring up the flat bench press.

[natural al]

RACK CHINS

Back Width: With all width movements rest paused I like front pull downs to the chin, rear pull downs to the mid-ear level (no lower), gravitron chins (the air compressor one with the platform), hammer under grip pull downs, and rack chins. Rack chins: Find the widest smythe machine you can (or barbell in a squat rack) and put a bench in front of it- put the bar about shoulder height- use wrist straps and put your grip as wide as comfortably possible-put your heels up on the bench but cross your legs to take them out of the movement- your legs should almost be straight but not quite- now do chins explosively up and 8 seconds down until the full stretch- any rep that your chin doesn’t either go over the bar or hit the bar doesn’t count! Do one warm-up set and then have someone put a fixed plate barbell (like used for barbell curls) in your lap. On every rest pause the spotter grabs the barbell off the chinners lap and the chinner stands up and counts his 15 deep breaths (and he stays strapped up to the bar). Then the chinner gets back into position after 15 deep breaths and the spotter puts the barbell back on the chinners lap. I want one warm-up straight set with no added weight done for 10-12 reps and then one all out rest pause set for 15 to 20 reps with added weight (use a 30lb barbell this first time out), then 10-30 short range static reps at the end. These are going to be excruciating and tomorrow your lats are going to be killing you.This exercise is my lat width pronto exercise.
You can rig this up where you don’t need a spotter. I’ve done this before by putting my weight belt really loose around me and putting a 35lb plate down the back of it with a short chain, or you can rig up some benches where you can get that barbell off your lap but it’s much easier if you can get someone to help you for the one working rest pause set. You need to really push the stretch down the bottom and then try to explode up to the bar on every rep

I might start doing these using the belt to support the weight, don't know yet.  Right now I'm doing underhand pulldowns-I use a tricep pushdown bar-the angle lets my wrists stay in a more nutreal position, pionter finger is "higher" up than the pinky finger, when I use a straight bar my forearms and grip give out before my back does.  I use a hammer pulldown machine and I do nutreal grip pulldowns.  I'm close to maxing out on a couple of movements so rack chins might be thrown into the rotation, my lats are actually kinda high, wide but high so this might help that situation.

[davie]

Sounds good bro. Thanks for link. im gonna try them on monday i think, as my 1st width movement.
Only prob i might run into with my gyms squat rack is that, there is a low bar (attaching one side to the other), that might hit my ass at trhe lowest part of the movement, but il try and see, excited to get started (+just got more powder, so im almost set).

Was gonna ask, did anyone else not find it a tiny bit weird that u rotate between 3 diff exercised each workout per body part, like i sed b4, if i incline Db press wen i go in on monday, i wont be incline Db pressing until monday 2 weeks later??
Thought that might make it harder to keep things progressing, no?!

davie

[davie]

Also natural al, whats ur take on special dogg crapp dieting??

Do u use carb cut-offs etc??

davie

[pink]

Guys - this looks good and I'd like to try it - is there a one stop place for someone who wants to set up a DC training routine?
A sticky withthe basics?

[natural al]

Guys - this looks good and I'd like to try it - is there a one stop place for someone who wants to set up a DC training routine?
A sticky withthe basics?

you can try the dog pound over at Intensemuscle.com.  They have a ton of information over there and they have a "pound puppy" section for newbies.  it's a good site, I don't post there that much cause most people know thier shit really well and by the time I'm gonna weigh in on a topic there's already 10 good responses.  Lots of really knowledgable guys there.

You could do a search using google for "the dog log" or "the dogg logg", I can't remember which one it's under, that's really good.  Try a forum called "weights on the web", they've got a really good thread on it.

http://timwescott.proboards18.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Talk&thread=1101334382&page=5

try that, start at page one and read everything "inhuman" says, he knows his shit.

[drserje]

Hey guys i just joined this site yesterday and I need some advice. I had been working out religiously for about 6years, I did a  cycles of Winni about 3 years ago,  I was in good shape  (5'10 ,214, 12% BF). Due to med schools intense hours I have not been able to workout for about 5 months, I also wasn't  getting adequate sleep or  eat the proper foods at the proper time, so  I'm now (215lbs, I would say about 20% BF). I Finished my first year of med school 2 weeks ago, and now have the time to get back into things. I've been out of the bodybuilding loop for awhile so I was wondering if you guys knew of any good supplements that cause for some nice muscle gains, oh ya I don't want to do another cycle. So,  I'll tell you what I'm currently taking and you tell me what to get rid of and what to add.
I drink anywhere from 2 to 4 liters of water during my day.


7am-- Gasparian Pump 250( 2scoops) , Novex Biotech Endothil-CR
7:15-- Nitrotech Protein Shake
7:45-- Workout
9am-- Muscletech Protein shake with a Gatorade
11:30-- Tuna Salad (30-35g protein), 1 red apple,1 orange, 1 GNC multi vit, two 600mg L-glutamine capsules, 1000mg CLA
2:30pm-- Tuna Salad (30-35g protein), brown rice or wheat pasta (one and a half cups)
5:30--  Chicken Breast (30-35g protein),one serving of fruit, two 600mg L-glutamine capsules, 1000mg CLA
8:30-- Chicken or Turkey Breast (30-35g protein), a cup of veggies
10:30-- 1-3 mile jog every other day, it's not an intense jog, I try to keep it at a slow pace ( 9- 11 minutes a mile)
11:10--2 cups nonfat milk or 1 cup nonfat milk mixed with 20 grams whey protein,1 GNC multi vit,two 600mg L-glutamine capsules,  1000mg CLA, 2 tablets GNC ZMA
11:30-- In bed

Thanks

[davie]

Go to the nutrition board!!

davie

[davie]

Was just thining about sum of my exercicse choices that im going to use once i stall on an exercise.

Was thinking that u could use movements like hang clean and press in DC rest/pause style, as u could with high pulls, mayb cleans.

Interesting.

ALSO, as im recovering from ankle injury and dont wanna stop all cardio in off-season.....im gonna do a little interval work on tuesdays and thursdays, only about 5-10 mins.
Was also wandering if u think skipping was ok option. i know skipping quite good for calves and as part of my ankle rehabbibg im doing things to strengthen ankle and surrounding area.

I know DC calf trainin has u working them once one week and twice the next week. But do u think its also ok that wether its a once session calf week or a 2 session calf week that i also do skipping for about 5 mins on tuesday and thursdays??

Wont be counter productive to my DC calf work?

davie

[natural al]

Was just thining about sum of my exercicse choices that im going to use once i stall on an exercise.

Was thinking that u could use movements like hang clean and press in DC rest/pause style, as u could with high pulls, mayb cleans.

Interesting.

ALSO, as im recovering from ankle injury and dont wanna stop all cardio in off-season.....im gonna do a little interval work on tuesdays and thursdays, only about 5-10 mins.
Was also wandering if u think skipping was ok option. i know skipping quite good for calves and as part of my ankle rehabbibg im doing things to strengthen ankle and surrounding area.

I know DC calf trainin has u working them once one week and twice the next week. But do u think its also ok that wether its a once session calf week or a 2 session calf week that i also do skipping for about 5 mins on tuesday and thursdays??
Wont be counter productive to my DC calf work?

davie

I don't think it would hurt your calf's to do some skipping, I do a little rope skipping from time to time for cardio and it has not effected my calfs at all.  keep an eye on it and if you start to loose poundages or intesity when doing calfs make an adjustement from there.

[Fatpanda]

have any of you read heavy duty 1 or 2 by a guy called mike mentzer?

reading the doggcrapp protocol is like reading mikes books, they are so similar i think if mike were alive he would be sueing mr crapp for plagerism.

it may have increased frequency and a slight periodization setup, with the changing of exercises once the subject stalls, but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck !

[DK II]

have any of you read heavy duty 1 or 2 by a guy called mike mentzer?

reading the doggcrapp protocol is like reading mikes books, they are so similar i think if mike were alive he would be sueing mr crapp for plagerism.

it may have increased frequency and a slight periodization setup, with the changing of exercises once the subject stalls, but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck !

Who is this mentzer guy?? Never heard of him... 

BTW, i don't give a flying shit about who has wrote a training program, if i like it i do it.
Or are you one of the guys that wears a training t-shirt with the name of his program for workout??

"Doggcrapp"
"I'm a HITter"
"Hypertrophy Specific Training on board"
"Volume up!"

 

[Fatpanda]

Who is this mentzer guy?? Never heard of him... 

BTW, i don't give a flying shit about who has wrote a training program, if i like it i do it.
Or are you one of the guys that wears a training t-shirt with the name of his program for workout??

"Doggcrapp"
"I'm a HITter"
"Hypertrophy Specific Training on board"
"Volume up!"

 

No i'm not one of those guys, i'm the kind of guy that wears whatever fits me while working out.

i simply think its unethical not to give props to mentzer, since its mentzers program that dc is claiming as his own, simply because he added stretching, and a change of excercises.

but yes i agree it works.

[natural al]

have any of you read heavy duty 1 or 2 by a guy called mike mentzer?

reading the doggcrapp protocol is like reading mikes books, they are so similar i think if mike were alive he would be sueing mr crapp for plagerism.

it may have increased frequency and a slight periodization setup, with the changing of exercises once the subject stalls, but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck !

how did metzer have his clients do rest pause?  it was max. weight for 1 rep, wait 10 seconds max weight again for 1 rep until failure, then I think he stripped weight off and you started the process over.

did mike have his guys doing multi rep rest pause sets?  Was it limited to 3 rest pause sets?  did he have a different training technique for legs and back? 

I'll never put mike down cause I love reading his stuff but if I had to say something bad it would be that "joe average" gym guy even with a few years under his belt could NOT use his techniques for extended periods of time and make great games, it takes along time for someone to learn how to do 1 all out set and use Mike's techniques and get out of it what Mike could...

[Fatpanda]

i agree the rest pause was done differently, but the basics are the same

1 straight set each bodypart - mentzer

also dc recommends straight sets for some people, (naturals, or low recovery ability, or was it to see how they respond at first)

statics after failure - also mentzer

stretching after the workout - mentzer

increase weight = increase muscle - mentzer

bodyparts hit on certain days - same

frequency of dc is the same as early mentzer ( pre hd2)

i agree dc is a good program, but i think it is too similar to HD/HIT to deny it is not like he does.

 

[natural al]

i agree the rest pause was done differently, but the basics are the same

1 straight set each bodypart - mentzer

also dc recommends straight sets for some people, (naturals, or low recovery ability, or was it to see how they respond at first)

statics after failure - also mentzer

stretching after the workout - mentzer

increase weight = increase muscle - mentzer

bodyparts hit on certain days - same

frequency of dc is the same as early mentzer ( pre hd2)

i agree dc is a good program, but i think it is too similar to HD/HIT to deny it is not like he does.

 

it's not always one set for each BP, for the most part it is but not always, back thickness is usually handled with one heavy as you can go set for 4-6 reps followed by another with slighty lighter weight for 9-12 reps, quads are handled in a similar fashion, 1 ultra heavy set for 4-6 reps followed by a "widowmaker" movement, which will remain constant following every quad workout but the weight for the WM will increase.  So you might do squats, leg press and leg press for your 3 movements but after each workout you'll go over to the hack squat and do a set of 20 with the weight being bumped up each time so you progress very quickly.

there are alot of other differences, did he use some of mike's theories, I don't know but there are tons of programs out there that were built by previous opinions on training, nothing wrong with taking a theory and putting a different spin on it, 80% of his stuff in regards to training theory is out there for free...

[Fatpanda]

i believe in a universal law of building muscle, ala mentzer.

i do not agree with 'dc is not for beginners', or some body parts need 2 sets or 3- why? (safety wise i understand - but not from muscle/strength building point of view).

however a good system builds muscle in everyone, beginner, and experienced lifter alike, and should be safe in all movements - so 2 straight sets in case of injury is silly imho.

al how do you judge how much weight you drop to when replacing a maxed out movement with another. is there a 20% drop or some other scientific measurement you shoot for or is it just by feel?

i was doing 100lbs db presses, then got a shoulder injury, so i took 2 weeks off. when i went back i changed the movement, and i thought i should have been in the ball park of 100lbs, but i had to drop it to 75lbs. this bothered me. i'm working back up now but shoulder is still bothering me.