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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Thong Maniac on August 10, 2015, 12:29:15 PM
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Is this what he means by HIt? (im using one exercise below as an example)
bB Barbell curls?...
1. Warm up with 50lb, 15 reps
2. Warm up with 60lb , 12 reps
3. Working set 65 or 70lb, time under tension, slow controlled negative reps till cant move it anymore
Sure i could do a set with 100lb instead of 65, but thats too heavy for TUT with static holds etc.
Then on to another bicep movement ?
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Basically he did 2-4 warm ups and one work set?so he really did 4-5 sets per exercise but didnt count the other sets as anything more than a warm up so he was full of shit about that.same as most people just didnt count the first sets.I dont have warm up sets i just go to failure on all sets and therefore count them all.Sobyes the way you have it is correct.
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I am not sure that biceps are a good measure of Dorian's progress.
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Is this what he means by HIt? (im using one exercise below as an example)
bB Barbell curls?...
1. Warm up with 50lb, 15 reps
2. Warm up with 60lb , 12 reps
3. Working set 65 or 70lb, time under tension, slow controlled negative reps till cant move it anymore
Sure i could do a set with 100lb instead of 65, but thats too heavy for TUT with static holds etc.
Then on to another bicep movement ?
Doesnt matter what you do or how hard you train, its drugs and genetics
Go and watch Phil Heath train.
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Just work hard. That's Dorians heritage.
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Dorian was right because you get the same results if not better doing one warm up set then one balls to the wall, all out set to total failure. The key is knowing what represents true failure and staying in that torturous zone until either a negative or a postive is totally impossible. I recommend training this way every so often to vary things up abit and keep it fresh but I prefer lighter sets and higher reps chasing for a great pump because frankly it's not as hard!
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Dorian was right because you get the same results if not better doing one warm up set then one balls to the wall, all out set to total failure. The key is knowing what represents true failure and staying in that torturous zone until either a negative or a postive is totally impossible. I recommend training this way every so often to vary things up abit and keep it fresh but I prefer lighter sets and higher reps chasing for a great pump because frankly it's not as hard!
But he didnt do one warm up set, then one set to failure. He did multiple "warm up" sets, then did one to total failure. In essence, he did the standard 3-4 sets for one exercise, just like we all do. He just couched it under some special workout routine.
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But he didnt do one warm up set, then one set to failure. He did multiple "warm up" sets, then did one to total failure. In essence, he did the standard 3-4 sets for one exercise, just like we all do. He just couched it under some special workout routine.
not really.
Ideally, the warm up sets are done low rep, they don't count, not even close.
Here is how you warm up for hit. Say you can bench press 100lbs for one rep.
first set is 5 reps with 50lbs
then 4 reps with 60
3 reps with 70
2 with 80
1 with 90
This is simply to tell you how you're feeling on that given day, if the last warm up set feels good, you're ready to go all out. It not, gotta figure out why....
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not really.
Ideally, the warm up sets are done low rep, they don't count, not even close.
Here is how you warm up for hit. Say you can bench press 100lbs for one rep.
first set is 5 reps with 50lbs
then 4 reps with 60
3 reps with 70
2 with 80
1 with 90
This is simply to tell you how you're feeling on that given day, if the last warm up set feels good, you're ready to go all out. It not, gotta figure out why....
Sorry, thats 4 sets. Anyone can just say, "well, lets not count those sets." What determines whats a set? Amount of weight? Amount of reps? Or because Dorian says so?
Dorian was doing what most other people do. Not much different. All the same bullshit just presented differently.
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This is the Mike Mentzer critics all over again......know your history before posting. ::)
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not really.
Ideally, the warm up sets are done low rep, they don't count, not even close.
Here is how you warm up for hit. Say you can bench press 100lbs for one rep.
first set is 5 reps with 50lbs
then 4 reps with 60
3 reps with 70
2 with 80
1 with 90
This is simply to tell you how you're feeling on that given day, if the last warm up set feels good, you're ready to go all out. It not, gotta figure out why....
That doesnt sound snything like dorians hit program. I never saw low reps like that
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That doesnt sound snything like dorians hit program. I never saw low reps like that
Never mind Dorian's hit stuff....
Do the warm ups as i said, benefit from better trainings, period.
3 movements, 2 work sets each.
Rest long to handle max weights, if you get 8 on the first set, you should not be able to get more than 6 on the next.
This philosophy has done me very well.
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He did non taxing warm up sets for major exercises. For minor he either did one or none. I just can comprehend how volume trainers don't understand the meaning of one set to failure. Yates might do incline sets like this. First warm up 135 for 8. Second warm up 225lbs for 6. Third warm up 315 for 4 reps. His work set to failure is 415lbs for 7 reps. Does anyone expect he should load the bar for one set with 415lb without a warm up?
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I trained this way for years and only changed with injury problems... Its the mind set that the volume guys don't understand, and those who claim to train to failure and do 20 or 30 sets are deluded
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I trained this way for years and only changed with injury problems... Its the mind set that the volume guys don't understand, and those who claim to train to failure and do 20 or 30 sets are deluded
Exactly. The volume guys are pacing themselves much more than they think. You can't go all out and do that kind of volume.
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I trained this way for years and only changed with injury problems... Its the mind set that the volume guys don't understand, and those who claim to train to failure and do 20 or 30 sets are deluded
those are the dudes who jerk the weights, super fast tempo, very fast TUT, so yeah, of course they gotta do all those "sets", lol....
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trained arms yesterday
3 sets seated dumbell curls 15k
5 sets machine preachers 15/20k
4 sets rope tricep ext 60k
3 sets 1 arm extensions 25k
3 sest single arm cable curls 20k
Done.
No throwing weights around all strict constant tension form
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Anything less than Failure especially at a lower weight is a warm up. It does nothing.
People saying Dorian did 5 sets because some were warm ups have no idea. On top of that he only did those warm ups on the first exercise, every other one after he did one main set.
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trained arms yesterday
3 sets seated dumbell curls 15k
5 sets machine preachers 15/20k
4 sets rope tricep ext 60k
3 sets 1 arm extensions 25k
3 sest single arm cable curls 20k
Done.
No throwing weights around all strict constant tension form
Posing between sets?
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Anything less than Failure especially at a lower weight is a warm up. It does nothing.
People saying Dorian did 5 sets because some were warm ups have no idea. On top of that he only did those warm ups on the first exercise, every other one after he did one main set.
But going by that logic, then everyone uses the same principles as Dorian. Most people start off with lower weight and work their way up. Yet, Dorian was spouting this as if it was some special way of training. Its no different than the way most people train. Call it 5 sets call it 1 set, its the way most people train.
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Posing between sets?
always.
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HIT and their proponent (Arthur Jones,Mike Mentzer,Dorian Yates...) are the biggest fraud in bodybuilding history !!!
HIT is even worst than scam supplement and Jones,Mentzer and Dorian are even worst than snakeoil salesman !!!
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HIT and their proponent (Arthur Jones,Mike Mentzer,Dorian Yates...) are the biggest fraud in bodybuilding history !!!
HIT is even worst than scam supplement and Jones,Mentzer and Dorian are even worst than snakeoil salesman !!!
MASSIVE Troll job, whatever man...
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MASSIVE Troll job, whatever man...
Ritch, calm down, broskie. Get yourself a protein shake and take a nap. :D
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HIT and their proponent (Arthur Jones,Mike Mentzer,Dorian Yates...) are the biggest fraud in bodybuilding history !!!
HIT is even worst than scam supplement and Jones,Mentzer and Dorian are even worst than snakeoil salesman !!!
The Colorado experiment was basically a fraud. All Casey Viator did was regain the muscle he had lost. Muscle memory. Arthur Jones gained very little in comparison during the same experiment. Casey's numbers are always the ones mentioned though.
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Ritch, calm down, broskie. Get yourself a protein shake and take a nap. :D
Just waking up now, eating "breakfast" now!
That nap may seem appealing a bit later on though...
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But going by that logic, then everyone uses the same principles as Dorian. Most people start off with lower weight and work their way up. Yet, Dorian was spouting this as if it was some special way of training. Its no different than the way most people train. Call it 5 sets call it 1 set, its the way most people train.
It is way different. It's the mind set like local hero said. One life or death set, giving it everything. You can't maintain that kind of mental or physical intensity for many sets. Most people do not train like that.
Reminds me of what that fool Poliquin said wrt "HIT"
For instance, one infamous trainer exhibits a fanatical obsession with one training method his to the exclusion of all others. His system requires only a fraction of the time required by most other programs, but it's difficult to do it for more than a few weeks because it requires that the trainee be either mentally disturbed or addicted to amphetamines in order to keep up the degree of effort required.
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The Colorado experiment was basically a fraud. All Casey Viator did was regain the muscle he had lost. Muscle memory. Arthur Jones gained very little in comparison during the same experiment. Casey's numbers are always the ones mentioned though.
Colorado was for real but indeed: extreme muscle memory for an extraordinarily gifted and plentiful juiced BB....even then still amazing.
Says Dr Dutch (who knows his stuff)
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It is way different. It's the mind set like local hero said. One life or death set, giving it everything. You can't maintain that kind of mental or physical intensity for many sets. Most people do not train like that.
Reminds me of what that fool Poliquin said wrt "HIT"
Ive seen many people train to absolute failure during their last set.
Exactly, most people dont train like that, which is why most people do warm up sets, then do 1-2 sets to total failure. I dont see how this is any difference than the way Dorian trained.
If there was a normal gym rat training EXACTLY like Dorian, you wouldn't say its anything special. Youre only saying that because its Dorian.
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Basically he did 2-4 warm ups and one work set?so he really did 4-5 sets per exercise but didnt count the other sets as anything more than a warm up so he was full of shit about that.same as most people just didnt count the first sets.I dont have warm up sets i just go to failure on all sets and therefore count them all.Sobyes the way you have it is correct.
you clearly dont get it.
2 warm up sets, stopping well short of failure.
then the philosophy is that you grow from the combination of all out effort in the least amount of time, but achieving a number of reps that stimulates muscle growth- so 6-10 or so.
hardly full of shit. most people cannot comprehend, or have the guts to do a set to complete failure where they are busting eyeballs. they think of failure as "where it gets hard". the difference is subtle but important.
u spend all of your available energy at that moment moving the weight. any exercise after that can only be done with less energy, so cant achieve the same level of stimulation..unless of course that you didnt bust your eyeballs in the first place.
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Ive seen many people train to absolute failure during their last set.
Failure is does not mean the same thing to all people, not at all. Everyone claims to
train to failure, and it may seem like they do. But training to failure in an HIT context
also means you are also trying to hit higher poundage or increase the reps each and every workout.
Most people are not trying to get stronger all the time and don't even try. But if you pressure yourself to do it it becomes a whole different thing very quickly. When you think you have one
single set to stimulate growth for that particular muscle each week it makes you pull out all the stops which most trainees do not do.
You can try it yourself. Take your best ever 8 rep max on say squats. Then next session you WILL beat it, and next after that and so on. You have been thinking about that set each week, it's life or death, you load up on tons of stimulants and oral steroids before hand and then get to work. :D Before long you will notice the difference between "failure" and Dorian/Mentzer type failure. Most people do not tap into those extra reserves because it is enormously taxing despite the low volume. I will give another example. A powerlifter does 9 singles max in a meet but every powerlifter will tell you how taxing a meet is, for some it may take months to recover from it. Why, it's only 9 singles? Because when your whole months/years build-up to that point is on the line you will give it much more than an average "workout" session, the average dude in the gym trying a few maxes simply does not extend himelf as far.
Try the squat example. Try it for a few weeks. You MUST beat each squat session in either poundage or reps... do one or two sets a week... see how it goes. ;)
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Failure is does not mean the same thing to all people, not at all. Everyone claims to
train to failure, and it may seem like they do. But training to failure in an HIT context
also means you are also trying to hit higher poundage or increase the reps each and every workout.
Most people are not trying to get stronger all the time and don't even try. But if you pressure yourself to do it it becomes a whole different thing very quickly. When you think you have one
single set to stimulate growth for that particular muscle each week it makes you pull out all the stops which most trainees do not do.
You can try it yourself. Take your best ever 8 rep max on say squats. Then next session you WILL beat it, and next after that and so on. You have been thinking about that set each week, it's life or death, you load up on tons of stimulants and oral steroids before hand and then get to work. :D Before long you will notice the difference between "failure" and Dorian/Mentzer type failure. Most people do not tap into those extra reserves because it is enormously taxing despite the low volume. I will give another example. A powerlifter does 9 singles max in a meet but every powerlifter will tell you how taxing a meet is, for some it may take months to recover from it. Why, it's only 9 singles? Because when your whole months/years build-up to that point is on the line you will give it much more than an average "workout" session, the average dude in the gym trying a few maxes simply does not extend himelf as far.
You can make a bicep fail with a 10k dumbell if you want to.
Once the lactic acid has built up then it simply wont contract
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Failure is does not mean the same thing to all people, not at all. Everyone claims to
train to failure, and it may seem like they do. But training to failure in an HIT context
also means you are also trying to hit higher poundage or increase the reps each and every workout.
Most people are not trying to get stronger all the time and don't even try. But if you pressure yourself to do it it becomes a whole different thing very quickly. When you think you have one
single set to stimulate growth for that particular muscle each week it makes you pull out all the stops which most trainees do not do.
You can try it yourself. Take your best ever 8 rep max on say squats. Then next session you WILL beat it, and next after that and so on. You have been thinking about that set each week, it's life or death, you load up on tons of stimulants and oral steroids before hand and then get to work. :D Before long you will notice the difference between "failure" and Dorian/Mentzer type failure. Most people do not tap into those extra reserves because it is enormously taxing despite the low volume. I will give another example. A powerlifter does 9 singles max in a meet but every powerlifter will tell you how taxing a meet is, for some it may take months to recover from it. Why, it's only 9 singles? Because when your whole months/years build-up to that point is on the line you will give it much more than an average "workout" session, the average dude in the gym trying a few maxes simply does not extend himelf as far.
Try the squat example. Try it for a few weeks. You MUST beat each squat session in either poundage or reps... do one or two sets a week... see how it goes. ;)
This is it exactly, VB.... 8)
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You can make a bicep fail with a 10k dumbell if you want to.
Once the lactic acid has built up then it simply wont contract
You're right. But lets say you just did a set of 10 to failure. Imagine then you would have won 1 million dollars had you done 11 reps. Might you have done 11 reps with that much money on the line? Your level of motivation means a lot. The HIT'ers believe something has to progress all the time, if you manage to do it that's what makes it taxing. And I do believe people have untapped strength potential a lot of the time but the motivation just isn't there.
And if you were to do something like that Casey Viator giant set for quads that's been posted many times it might put you in the hospital. I think I might die which is why I haven't attempted anything like it. :D
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Is this what he means by HIt? (im using one exercise below as an example)
bB Barbell curls?...
1. Warm up with 50lb, 15 reps
2. Warm up with 60lb , 12 reps
3. Working set 65 or 70lb, time under tension, slow controlled negative reps till cant move it anymore
Sure i could do a set with 100lb instead of 65, but thats too heavy for TUT with static holds etc.
Then on to another bicep movement ?
Sounds like pyramid training to me.
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Sounds like pyramid training to me.
Right, but isnt my example a HIt dorian style approach, or am i far off?
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You're right. But lets say you just did a set of 10 to failure. Imagine then you would have won 1 million dollars had you done 11 reps. Might you have done 11 reps with that much money on the line? Your level of motivation means a lot. The HIT'ers believe something has to progress all the time, if you manage to do it that's what makes it taxing. And I do believe people have untapped strength potential a lot of the time but the motivation just isn't there.
And if you were to do something like that Casey Viator giant set for quads that's been posted many times it might put you in the hospital. I think I might die which is why I haven't attempted anything like it. :D
No, not if you had failed on 10, thats what failure means.
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I heard that HIT is a great way to tear a bicep.
::)
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No, not if you had failed on 10, thats what failure means.
Yes yes I know failure is failure but don't you agree that level of motivation and level of arousal can affect performance? Why do many strength athletes hit PR's or world records during meets only?
I could mention the classic case of a mother trying to save her kid stuck under a wheel of a car and trying to lift it... motivation increases performance. I personally mentally record different max sets differently... some were "failure" and some were really failure where I extended myself extra much both mentally and physically.
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Failure is does not mean the same thing to all people, not at all. Everyone claims to
train to failure, and it may seem like they do. But training to failure in an HIT context
also means you are also trying to hit higher poundage or increase the reps each and every workout.
Most people are not trying to get stronger all the time and don't even try. But if you pressure yourself to do it it becomes a whole different thing very quickly. When you think you have one
single set to stimulate growth for that particular muscle each week it makes you pull out all the stops which most trainees do not do.
You can try it yourself. Take your best ever 8 rep max on say squats. Then next session you WILL beat it, and next after that and so on. You have been thinking about that set each week, it's life or death, you load up on tons of stimulants and oral steroids before hand and then get to work. :D Before long you will notice the difference between "failure" and Dorian/Mentzer type failure. Most people do not tap into those extra reserves because it is enormously taxing despite the low volume. I will give another example. A powerlifter does 9 singles max in a meet but every powerlifter will tell you how taxing a meet is, for some it may take months to recover from it. Why, it's only 9 singles? Because when your whole months/years build-up to that point is on the line you will give it much more than an average "workout" session, the average dude in the gym trying a few maxes simply does not extend himelf as far.
Try the squat example. Try it for a few weeks. You MUST beat each squat session in either poundage or reps... do one or two sets a week... see how it goes. ;)
But it almost impossible to try and increase poundage or reps each workout, unless you do the same exact exercises in the same exact order every workout. t
If workout 1 consist of me doing bench press as my first exercise, and I max out at 450 for 2 reps (obviously not true). Then if I train chest a week later (workout 2) and do bench press 2nd or 3rd in my workout, its almost going to be impossible to get more than 450 for 2+ reps, considering Ill be tired. Its not going to be an accurate gauge if I am getting stronger or not, just because I can't get 450 for 2+ reps if I am now doing bench press 2nd or 3rd exercise in my workout. It wouldn't then be a realistic goal.
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HIT will work but just isn't a pleasant way to train....well I don't like it. This is still a hobby.
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But it almost impossible to try and increase poundage or reps each workout, unless you do the same exact exercises in the same exact order every workout. t
If workout 1 consist of me doing bench press as my first exercise, and I max out at 450 for 2 reps (obviously not true). Then if I train chest a week later (workout 2) and do bench press 2nd or 3rd in my workout, its almost going to be impossible to get more than 450 for 2+ reps, considering Ill be tired. Its not going to be an accurate gauge if I am getting stronger or not, just because I can't get 450 for 2+ reps if I am now doing bench press 2nd or 3rd exercise in my workout. It wouldn't then be a realistic goal.
That's exactly it, people switch their exercises around all the time and can't properly gauge progress. The end result is that they aren't really getting stronger. Now, it's impossible to increase loads each and every workout but if you are highly motivated to at least try your very best it will make it very taxing both mentally and physically. One could take Dorian's template and try it with a very intense mindset of trying for progress every workout and they will notice it's very taxing if they're putting a lot of pressure on themselves.
I will say that this style of training is dangerous so I'm not necessarily endorsing it.
I wouldn't say Dorian's "to failure sets" weren't any more intense than some volume trainers "failure" sets. I know some pros have claimed they do like 30 sets to failure each workout but they are pacing themselves. It's impossible to do high volume with 100% effort put into each set. I bet Phil Heath also does every set to failure, or will claim he does... but is it Dorian's kind of failure? It's not.
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That's exactly it, people switch their exercises around all the time and can't properly gauge progress. The end result is that they aren't really getting stronger. Now, it's impossible to increase loads each and every workout but if you are highly motivated to at least try your very best it will make it very taxing both mentally and physically. One could take Dorian's template and try it with a very intense mindset of trying for progress every workout and they will notice it's very taxing if they're putting a lot of pressure on themselves.
I will say that this style of training is dangerous so I'm not necessarily endorsing it.
I wouldn't say Dorian's "to failure sets" weren't any more intense than some volume trainers "failure" sets. I know some pros have claimed they do like 30 sets to failure each workout but they are pacing themselves. It's impossible to do high volume with 100% effort put into each set. I bet Phil Heath also does every set to failure, or will claim he does... but is it Dorian's kind of failure? It's not.
You can train hard or you can train long, you cant train hard and long.
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You can train hard or you can train long, you cant train hard and long.
that's very true.
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You're right. But lets say you just did a set of 10 to failure. Imagine then you would have won 1 million dollars had you done 11 reps. Might you have done 11 reps with that much money on the line? Your level of motivation means a lot. The HIT'ers believe something has to progress all the time, if you manage to do it that's what makes it taxing. And I do believe people have untapped strength potential a lot of the time but the motivation just isn't there.
And if you were to do something like that Casey Viator giant set for quads that's been posted many times it might put you in the hospital. I think I might die which is why I haven't attempted anything like it. :D
A part of the brain acts to prevent you using your full strength the majority of the time. It's a failsafe against injury. It's where these stories of superhuman strength in highly stressful situations come from.
I saw a study where a guy was asked to exert his full strength on a static leg extension machine that measures force, after getting measurements they used magnetic pulses to temporarily deactivate a portion of his brain. Afterwards his strength increased greatly.
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A part of the brain acts to prevent you using your full strength the majority of the time. It's a failsafe against injury. It's where these stories of superhuman strength in highly stressful situations come from.
I saw a study where a guy was asked to exert his full strength on a static leg extension machine that measures force, after getting measurements they used magnetic pulses to temporarily deactivate a portion of his brain. Afterwards his strength increased greatly.
Ronnie Colemans strength explained.
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You can train hard or you can train long, you cant train hard and long.
he said it 1st
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How many HIT champions were Mr O ? :-\
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I heard that HIT is a great way to tear a bicep.
::)
Each to his own... but i would rather train like Pearl did than any of these HIT guys. Although Pearls volume is more than i would do. Of course Volume trainers don´t do 30 sets to failure ::) who the fuck could? Near failure but not failure.
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After 6 weeks or so, it's simply a nightmare.
I can't belive someone would train 6 days a week doing that.
You almost get anxious before every workout.
I've been doing this the last few weeks and had to do some light sessions this weeks cause I always fear i'm on the verge of tearing something.
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calling arthur jones a fraud is a bit of a stretch
he designed some great equipment, and his son developed hammer strength
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btw i used to train h.i.t
i did get stronger, but after awhile it drains you mentally trying to go up in weight and reps every workout
plus two bad injuries. no more h.i.t for me moderate weights mid volume
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in the blood and guts video it was not one working set as claimed by dorian. the 'warm up sets' he does are heavy and you can see he is exerting a lot of effort so they're working sets. as said earlier in the thread, he was really doing 3 or 4 working sets pyramiding up in weight to heaviest set.
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If they are not to faillure I count those as warmups even if they are heavy
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He did warm up sets as needed but one work set to failure. If his is going to use over 400lbs for incline presses he's not going to use that without a warm up. If he felt he didn't need a warm up for an exercise he didn't use it.
A regular bodybuilder might do something like this for chest if using Yates version of HIT:
Flat bench warm up 135-10
Flat bench warm up 225-6
Flat bench warm up 275-2
Flat bench work set 300- failing at 7 reps.
Incline bench warm up 185-6
Incline bench work set 225- failing at 6
Flat dumbbell flies 1 x 10 reps to failure ( no warm up needed)
Dips warm up 6 reps body weight
Weighted dips work set 8 reps to failure with 35lbs plate
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in the blood and guts video it was not one working set as claimed by dorian. the 'warm up sets' he does are heavy and you can see he is exerting a lot of effort so they're working sets. as said earlier in the thread, he was really doing 3 or 4 working sets pyramiding up in weight to heaviest set.
He didn't put any real effort into them, if you take the incline ben h for example, he would do less reps with 3 plates than he did with 4
The whole point of progressing the weights is just to get a feeling for the movement and the increase of weight without taxing your self
This way of training definitely works, you have to eat and train very regimented and try and create the same conditions each week to enable your self to track your progress, I still have all my old diaries from when I took this all seriously, sets n reps, food , gear, even if id worked overtime etc
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I use common sense and rotate heavy, intense sessions with more moderate higher volume sessions for training longevity
some days I'll do a single max set of squats with 405 then a death set of leg press and go home.
some days I'll do 8x8 on multiple exercises.
Jeff said it best when he pointed out that the actual training makes fuck all difference, it's the drugs and genetics at the end of the day.
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After 6 weeks or so, it's simply a nightmare.
I can't belive someone would train 6 days a week doing that.
You almost get anxious before every workout.
I've been doing this the last few weeks and had to do some light sessions this weeks cause I always fear i'm on the verge of tearing something.
So true. It's really hard mentally to try to increase the weight, the reps or complete the workout quicker. I would actually feel anxiety prior to workouts remember how hellish going to failure on every exercise was. Even though I have been a HIT guy for over 40 years volume is calling me. If you do 20 sets a body part with volume you might start with 5 sets of barbell curls for 10 reps for biceps with the same weight. Your first 10 rep set you could have done 18 reps but stopped at 10. Your second you stop at 10 but could have got 15. The third maybe 13 would have been failure. The forth you stop at 10 but could have gotten 12. The fifth you fail at 9. That's a very effective time proven way to train.
I believe in intensity training but volume has value too. The most amount of over the top wackos belong to the HIT camp. Almost like a religion. Their HIT gets so torturous that they only train once every 5 to 7 days with 3 exercises at one extreme. Just nuts.
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With all due respect to everyone in this thread, Dorian was not doing that 1 set to failure per exercise full on until the year he was training for the 1993 Olympia.
I remember reading and article by "him" Peter M back then and he stated up until the 1992 Olympia he was a 2-3 work set per exercise guy and it took him years to work up to the point where he could perform a intense set of his nature.
my POINT IS I see alot of people here writing for example in this thread bench press
1 warm up 135x10
1 warm up 225x 6
1 warm up 315 x4
1 all out work set 450x7 LOL
Yeah thats what dorian can do, the rest of us humans aint warming up with 225/315 inclines/flats or much else for that matter
I have been around gyms on and off since 1986 and can count maybe 15-20 people tops of all the bodybuilders, powerlifters, wrestlers etc who were working with those kind of weights for easy warmups, let alone work sets :D
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I suspect this whole debate stems from physiological differences. For a hypothesis, I think people with a higher proportion of fast twitch fiber can get more out of 'one set to failure' than people with slow twitch. Sort of like how some people seem to stay lean on carbs, while some stay leaner on fats.
Who knows, really , but its just an idea I've had for a while based on some of my experiences. Once doing 400s with my friend, I noticed he was totally gassed after the first 400. He smoked me by like 10 seconds. For the rest of the workout, I beat him every time.
How can you explain something like that? I see him gasping for breath and looking like death after one 400 (mind you he trains as a track athlete and competes; I didn't run at all at this time). No matter how hard I run, I simply cannot induce a physiological response anywhere close to that from just a single 400.
While I used to agree with everyone who says 'training style doesn't matter', I've since changed my mind. I think most training systems are overcomplicated and full of random, unnecessary rules, BUT... Some distinctions ARE important, I think.
For example, whether you do better on high or low volume might be one of them, hence the popularity of this debate.
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HIT can and does make sense for many individuals, especially so with true naturals. But I suspect it must be tailored to each person's response. Of course if you're on a buttload of drugs such as any top bodybuilder (or even a middle of the dialysis road competitor) of the last 30 or even 40 years, it's going to work a whole lot better.
PEDs do that you know. That's why so many chumps become "champs" regardless of training or dieting methods.
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I suspect this whole debate stems from physiological differences. For a hypothesis, I think people with a higher proportion of fast twitch fiber can get more out of 'one set to failure' than people with slow twitch. Sort of like how some people seem to stay lean on carbs, while some stay leaner on fats.
Who knows, really , but its just an idea I've had for a while based on some of my experiences. Once doing 400s with my friend, I noticed he was totally gassed after the first 400. He smoked me by like 10 seconds. For the rest of the workout, I beat him every time.
How can you explain something like that? I see him gasping for breath and looking like death after one 400 (mind you he trains as a track athlete and competes; I didn't run at all at this time). No matter how hard I run, I simply cannot induce a physiological response anywhere close to that from just a single 400.
While I used to agree with everyone who says 'training style doesn't matter', I've since changed my mind. I think most training systems are overcomplicated and full of random, unnecessary rules, BUT... Some distinctions ARE important, I think.
For example, whether you do better on high or low volume might be one of them, hence the popularity of this debate.
I really like using track comparisons to simplify weight training. Imagine if someone told a 400 meter sprinter to train with a HIT mentality? Since the HIT guru believes in intensity and specificity of training he will have his athlete do one 400 meter sprint all out every day at training. He will try to beat this time every training session. Just insanity. Might work for a beginner but not for the experienced. Yet this exactly what many weight training HIT gurus suggest for their trainers lifting weights.
I was a 400 meter sprinter in high school and college. Back then it was 440 yards before it was metric. I too observed individual differences. I could wipe out most 880 yard (800 meter) guys in the 440 (400 meters) sprint. Add another lap and they would leave me in the dust as I gassed. Same type situation with the milers. While in training I could string several 5:15 minute miles in training but I would get slaughtered by a real miler in the mile.
Now I would use a sand hour glass to time my runs.
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With all due respect to everyone in this thread, Dorian was not doing that 1 set to failure per exercise full on until the year he was training for the 1993 Olympia.
I remember reading and article by "him" Peter M back then and he stated up until the 1992 Olympia he was a 2-3 work set per exercise guy and it took him years to work up to the point where he could perform a intense set of his nature.
my POINT IS I see alot of people here writing for example in this thread bench press
1 warm up 135x10
1 warm up 225x 6
1 warm up 315 x4
1 all out work set 450x7 LOL
Yeah thats what dorian can do, the rest of us humans aint warming up with 225/315 inclines/flats or much else for that matter
I have been around gyms on and off since 1986 and can count maybe 15-20 people tops of all the bodybuilders, powerlifters, wrestlers etc who were working with those kind of weights for easy warmups, let alone work sets :D
He later went on to state he was doing too much and should have used less sets sooner....
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With all due respect to everyone in this thread, Dorian was not doing that 1 set to failure per exercise full on until the year he was training for the 1993 Olympia.
I remember reading and article by "him" Peter M back then and he stated up until the 1992 Olympia he was a 2-3 work set per exercise guy and it took him years to work up to the point where he could perform a intense set of his nature.
my POINT IS I see alot of people here writing for example in this thread bench press
1 warm up 135x10
1 warm up 225x 6
1 warm up 315 x4
1 all out work set 450x7 LOL
Yeah thats what dorian can do, the rest of us humans aint warming up with 225/315 inclines/flats or much else for that matter
I have been around gyms on and off since 1986 and can count maybe 15-20 people tops of all the bodybuilders, powerlifters, wrestlers etc who were working with those kind of weights for easy warmups, let alone work sets :D
Shouldnt that be 1 all out work set to failure as opposed to a specific rep number, if he sets a target then its not all out, some days he may get 8 or 9.
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i was a big believer in training to absolute muscle failure, especially in the lower-mid rep ranges so heavy weight would be used.
really failure is just the depletion of energy and ATP, not producing enough to be able to perform another rep.
rest but about 10-20 seconds and you restore some ATP and can bang out another few reps, so have the muscles truly failed?
and without enough high rep sets we're probably not getting enough blood flow in the target muscle either.
hypertrophy is the product of progressive overload, volume, frequency and blood flow.
with low-mid rep sets to failure we're bound to hit a wall, the initial overload in weight won't last but we can still overload with volume and frequency.
i don't think training should be restricted to HIT vs volume, train to failure but not making it a staple and the be-all & end-all of training.
train in the low-mid rep ranges and high rep range, cycling volume, weight/intensity and frequency.
i train some muscles 2-3 x a week,
1 day is a mostly heavy work, reps 6-12 with a moderate amount of volume
2nd day is high reps with a lot of sets and volume, 12-20 reps, still heavy but not heavy enough for me to fail on rep 10
3rd day is the same but with a lot of partial reps/drop sets
i.e. 21's on most exercises
also, i wouldn't confuse high reps with low weight!
just because you do high reps doesn't mean you should be throwing around pink dumbells!
most of the monsters and pro's built a foundation of strength with big weight and low reps, but after that they make sure they get the reps out, high reps but with heavy weight with enough volume to achieve hypertrophy.
it's been done for generations - Arnie, Nubret, Oliva all trained like this as did the generations following like Haney etc
Dorian did more volume than people think, his prep sets which he thought of as warm-ups would be most people's work sets!
but it all added to the overall volume and stress placed on his muscles.
imo this is the best way to achieve hypertrophy.
also another example could be gymnasts, they have some of the most impressive physiques of any athletes. they train with a lot of volume and frequency but little to no failure.
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I trained this way for years and only changed with injury problems... Its the mind set that the volume guys don't understand, and those who claim to train to failure and do 20 or 30 sets are deluded
Its all quite simple - Doesn't really matter which way you choose to tax the muscle enough to grow. HIT or Volume will do it. You just have to damage the fibres enough, get the blood in there, eat clean and big and rest.
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btw i used to train h.i.t
i did get stronger, but after awhile it drains you mentally trying to go up in weight and reps every workout
plus two bad injuries. no more h.i.t for me moderate weights mid volume
Best advice
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Two days on. One day off. Two days on. One day off.
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i was a big believer in training to absolute muscle failure, especially in the lower-mid rep ranges so heavy weight would be used.
really failure is just the depletion of energy and ATP, not producing enough to be able to perform another rep.
rest but about 10-20 seconds and you restore some ATP and can bang out another few reps, so have the muscles truly failed?
and without enough high rep sets we're probably not getting enough blood flow in the target muscle either.
hypertrophy is the product of progressive overload, volume, frequency and blood flow.
with low-mid rep sets to failure we're bound to hit a wall, the initial overload in weight won't last but we can still overload with volume and frequency.
i don't think training should be restricted to HIT vs volume, train to failure but not making it a staple and the be-all & end-all of training.
train in the low-mid rep ranges and high rep range, cycling volume, weight/intensity and frequency.
i train some muscles 2-3 x a week,
1 day is a mostly heavy work, reps 6-12 with a moderate amount of volume
2nd day is high reps with a lot of sets and volume, 12-20 reps, still heavy but not heavy enough for me to fail on rep 10
3rd day is the same but with a lot of partial reps/drop sets
i.e. 21's on most exercises
also, i wouldn't confuse high reps with low weight!
just because you do high reps doesn't mean you should be throwing around pink dumbells!
most of the monsters and pro's built a foundation of strength with big weight and low reps, but after that they make sure they get the reps out, high reps but with heavy weight with enough volume to achieve hypertrophy.
it's been done for generations - Arnie, Nubret, Oliva all trained like this as did the generations following like Haney etc
Dorian did more volume than people think, his prep sets which he thought of as warm-ups would be most people's work sets!
but it all added to the overall volume and stress placed on his muscles.
imo this is the best way to achieve hypertrophy.
also another example could be gymnasts, they have some of the most impressive physiques of any athletes. they train with a lot of volume and frequency but little to no failure.
Great post, the bolded especially was the point I was trying to make with people trying to compare their own training(HIT or otherwise) to Dorian's supposed method, hell most of Ronnies first 1-2 warm ups at the beginning of his workout would be most people's work set or max weight for a rep lol
These guys progressed for years to not only get to that point where they can generate that kind of intensity, but to perfect and maintain it for weeks, months and years in end
Eventually their bodies say fuck it, have torn 15 inch left arms like the rest of us mortals and spend their days talking about how they use to do all this shit while only taking less than 700mg a week
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HIT might be good for a totally natural lifter, where heavy weights, progress and intensity is what only matters.
Its notorious that Mentzer was doing a normal volume training. He just figured what people wanted to hear : work less and get more out of it.
Sorry to disapoint it doesnt work like that. Look at Jay or Ronnie trainning.
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Yates only did that blood and guts training 10 weeks or so out from a contest. In the off season he did more sets and did not train all out. Even with the drugs he was on that style of training would take a toll on his joints and cns. In the offseason he lowered the intensity and did 3 to 4 hard sets per exercise but they weren't all out.
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HIT might be good for a totally natural lifter, where heavy weights, progress and intensity is what only matters.
Its notorious that Mentzer was doing a normal volume training. He just figured what people wanted to hear : work less and get more out of it.
Sorry to disapoint it doesnt work like that. Look at Jay or Ronnie trainning.
Just the opposite. Training to failure is not good for naturals. Juiced bodybuilders grow on anything.
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Exactly. The volume guys are pacing themselves much more than they think. You can't go all out and do that kind of volume.
All that matters is results, if Lee Priest built his 22'' arms with 20 sets of biceps, who am I too judge?
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Why make it so complicated? Mentzer and Yates used non taxing warm ups as needed then one or two sets to failure. Nice and simple. Yates sometimes didn't even use a warm up if it wasn't necessary. People counting his warm ups as work sets are clueless. They are not work sets and they are easy. No one could take 410lbs for inclines without warming up the joints and muscles. If he is doing four exercises for a body part he might need a warm up for the first two exercises but not for exercise three and four.
Both Mentzer and Yates used typical cadence with decent form but never did slow reps. Yates started using two sets to failure then settled on one set to failure. Mentzer during his prime mainly stayed with two sets to failure. Casey Viator on the other hand during his best ever condition was seen time and time again using volume and plenty of it. 15 sets a body was an everything occurrence once he left employment with Arthur Jones. There are some in the know that said don't believe the Colorado experiment cause he used volume on the side and plenty of steroids. True? I don't know.
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Volume, HIT, whatever works for you, both physically AND mentally. I could never get excited about using lots of sets because I found it boring, so the HIT method, toned down a little, worked for me. I went from a very lean 150 pounds in my late teens to a very lean 185 using HIT after three years. Then I stopped gaining, no matter what I tried. So I figured that was my natural limit and I was OK with it.
I now lift once a week heavy and maintain everything I gained, although my weight fluctuates to as high as 200 pounds because I don't do near anywhere the distance I used to bicycle race at. All this at 5'9" and I'm perfectly happy with the result.
We all know that to get mega muscles requires drug usage, so why bother saying that it's HIT or volume or anything in between? There is no magic bullet for the natural other than an injection.
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Is this what he means by HIt? (im using one exercise below as an example)
bB Barbell curls?...
1. Warm up with 50lb, 15 reps
2. Warm up with 60lb , 12 reps
3. Working set 65 or 70lb, time under tension, slow controlled negative reps till cant move it anymore
Sure i could do a set with 100lb instead of 65, but thats too heavy for TUT with static holds etc.
Then on to another bicep movement ?
Waste of time
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In Dorians Blood and Guts hes chest workout consisted of 3 ascending sets up to one working set of 7 reps unassisted with that lunatic screaming his head off, he did a couple sets of dumbbell flys, a couple sets of machine presses and one set of cable crossovers.
When he said "no one outworked me" he really wasn't outworking everyone, chances are he just did enough to stimulate growth.
Go watch Milos put someone through a workout and tell me Dorian trained harder,
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Volume, HIT, whatever works for you, both physically AND mentally. I could never get excited about using lots of sets because I found it boring, so the HIT method, toned down a little, worked for me. I went from a very lean 150 pounds in my late teens to a very lean 185 using HIT after three years. Then I stopped gaining, no matter what I tried. So I figured that was my natural limit and I was OK with it.
I now lift once a week heavy and maintain everything I gained, although my weight fluctuates to as high as 200 pounds because I don't do near anywhere the distance I used to bicycle race at. All this at 5'9" and I'm perfectly happy with the result.
We all know that to get mega muscles requires drug usage, so why bother saying that it's HIT or volume or anything in between? There is no magic bullet for the natural other than an injection.
Should have turned to volume. You would make better gains.
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In Dorians Blood and Guts hes chest workout consisted of 3 ascending sets up to one working set of 7 reps unassisted with that lunatic screaming his head off, he did a couple sets of dumbbell flys, a couple sets of machine presses and one set of cable crossovers.
When he said "no one outworked me" he really wasn't outworking everyone, chances are he just did enough to stimulate growth.
Go watch Milos put someone through a workout and tell me Dorian trained harder,
Exactly. Tom Platz is another example. His workouts were high volume and very high intensity.
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Exactly. Tom Platz is another example. His workouts were high volume and very high intensity.
Platz would take 5 mins to do a set of single arm dumbbell raises.
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Platz would take 5 mins to do a set of single arm dumbbell raises.
His bicep protested by tearing.
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In Dorians Blood and Guts hes chest workout consisted of 3 ascending sets up to one working set of 7 reps unassisted with that lunatic screaming his head off, he did a couple sets of dumbbell flys, a couple sets of machine presses and one set of cable crossovers.
When he said "no one outworked me" he really wasn't outworking everyone, chances are he just did enough to stimulate growth.
Go watch Milos put someone through a workout and tell me Dorian trained harder,
The irony is that in bodybuilding is not about ''who trains harder'', it's about results, I'll never forget an issue of FLEX magazine about these bodybuilders who did these crazy workouts from Hell, many of the people featured were not even that famous but they were famous for their insane high level of intensity in the gym. What matters is results, not who is killing himself the most in the gym
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In Dorians Blood and Guts hes chest workout consisted of 3 ascending sets up to one working set of 7 reps unassisted with that lunatic screaming his head off, he did a couple sets of dumbbell flys, a couple sets of machine presses and one set of cable crossovers.
When he said "no one outworked me" he really wasn't outworking everyone, chances are he just did enough to stimulate growth.
Go watch Milos put someone through a workout and tell me Dorian trained harder,
Dorian worked harder. Give me a break. Milos was a pussy trainer.
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Dorian worked harder. Give me a break. Milos was a pussy trainer.
Go and watch Dorians blood and guts, and turn the sound off, that guy screaming makes it seem far more intense than it actually is
His working set of incline bench was 7 reps unassisted, dont you think he could have done a drop set with that for more intensity?
So no, he wasn't the hardest worker, as I said he did just enough for maximum growth, to say he trained harder than anyone else is just silly
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HIT has not been too kind to me.
It went ok for a while but was a "burning out" model. If you want to stay healthy use medium/light weights and lots of reps - way better for your tissue.
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The irony is that in bodybuilding is not about ''who trains harder'', it's about results, I'll never forget an issue of FLEX magazine about these bodybuilders who did these crazy workouts from Hell, many of the people featured were not even that famous but they were famous for their insane high level of intensity in the gym. What matters is results, not who is killing himself the most in the gym
Louie Simmons tells powerlifters that the goal is to get as strong possible using the lightest weights possible. For bodybuilders it would be to gain the most muscle using the lightest weights. Paul Dillett would be the greatest bodybuilder ever. ;D
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Should have turned to volume. You would make better gains.
No -wouldn't have happened. As a racing cyclist I used to do a ton of flat out sprints - typically lasting 20 seconds or so and occasionally lactate efforts up to 45 seconds. In a given workout it would not be uncommon to do 20 intervals- which is the equivalent to 20 sets in bodybuilding building terms. My legs grew but on HIT my upper body grew faster.
People ascribe some kind of magic to doing set after set. The growth stimulus is achieved in less than three. More research studies out there proving that than you could care to count. We did lots of intervals in cycling to mimic the race environment so volume was critical. In the types of races I was good at, we would end up sprinting at least once a lap for 30 or more laps- so it was a question of power and endurance. Didn't need to replicate that in weight training.
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HIT has not been too kind to me.
It went ok for a while but was a "burning out" model. If you want to stay healthy use medium/light weights and lots of reps - way better for your tissue.
HIT easily burns you out. I got my best results doing it one day a week for muscle groups - followed by an easy week every 4-6 weeks.
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HIT easily burns you out. I got my best results doing it one day a week for muscle groups - followed by an easy week every 4-6 weeks.
I liked to do 2-3 weeks of volume and then 1 week of HIT.
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Louie Simmons tells powerlifters that the goal is to get as strong possible using the lightest weights possible. For bodybuilders it would be to gain the most muscle using the lightest weights. Paul Dillett would be the greatest bodybuilder ever. ;D
Mike Mentzer used to say that overtraining was not only ''bad'', but it was actually the worst thing a bodybuilder can do. After many years I understand it now, bodybuilders easily throw themselves into overtrained state after a few super intense workouts, then they wonder why they are not making progress
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No -wouldn't have happened. As a racing cyclist I used to do a ton of flat out sprints - typically lasting 20 seconds or so and occasionally lactate efforts up to 45 seconds. In a given workout it would not be uncommon to do 20 intervals- which is the equivalent to 20 sets in bodybuilding building terms. My legs grew but on HIT my upper body grew faster.
People ascribe some kind of magic to doing set after set. The growth stimulus is achieved in less than three. More research studies out there proving that than you could care to count. We did lots of intervals in cycling to mimic the race environment so volume was critical. In the types of races I was good at, we would end up sprinting at least once a lap for 30 or more laps- so it was a question of power and endurance. Didn't need to replicate that in weight training.
And yet volume is the prime driver of growth followed by time and tension. Real world science proves this. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27433992/
Oh and sprinting/running is not bodybuilding. Two totally different activities.
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Dorian worked harder. Give me a break. Milos was a pussy trainer.
agree oldtimer, i have watched those milos videos, its just a bunch of sloppy shit, the guy has fried a few peoples kidneys as well, remember luke wood who posted on here, milos basically killed that guy.
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agree oldtimer, i have watched those milos videos, its just a bunch of sloppy shit, the guy has fried a few peoples kidneys as well, remember luke wood who posted on here, milos basically killed that guy.
watch Dorians without the sound... ;)
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Mike Mentzer used to say that overtraining was not only ''bad'', but it was actually the worst thing a bodybuilder can do. After many years I understand it now, bodybuilders easily throw themselves into overtrained state after a few super intense workouts, then they wonder why they are not making progress
Yes, most "hardcore" training is wasted effort.
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Mike Mentzer used to say that overtraining was not only ''bad'', but it was actually the worst thing a bodybuilder can do. After many years I understand it now, bodybuilders easily throw themselves into overtrained state after a few super intense workouts, then they wonder why they are not making progress
I find I get the best results when I'm not training that hard, just consistently.
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way more volume and intensity that Dorians 3 or 4 "working sets"
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Dorian yates for the better part of his prime years competing other than his’hit,training was all attributed to one main factor how much drugs he was on the training just supported that.I’ll give him knowing diet to a point as well but he also had to do his final prep for the stage like diuretics ect...
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Could have trained in any manner and looked 90%....time under tension required of course, not like he couldn't lift at all. Gear + genetics at that level is huge part of it. If he had switched up his method at some point could have competed years longer.
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way more volume and intensity that Dorians 3 or 4 "working sets"
Past a few sets you are only working for endurance. Study after study shows that more is not better. Even intensity tends to lose its punch when taken to extremes.
The dose/response curve is the same for any stimulus- Hans Selye proved that 60 years ago.
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Past a few sets you are only working for endurance. Study after study shows that more is not better. Even intensity tends to lose its punch when taken to extremes.
The dose/response curve is the same for any stimulus- Hans Selye proved that 60 years ago.
Im with you, its just Dorians boast of no one outworking him was simply not true.
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Past a few sets you are only working for endurance. Study after study shows that more is not better. Even intensity tends to lose its punch when taken to extremes.
The dose/response curve is the same for any stimulus- Hans Selye proved that 60 years ago.
Very true.
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Past a few sets you are only working for endurance. Study after study shows that more is not better. Even intensity tends to lose its punch when taken to extremes.
The dose/response curve is the same for any stimulus- Hans Selye proved that 60 years ago.
Actually, not true.
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Dorian never did hit. He did a version of powerlifting in a bodybuilding style. I totally agree with another poster on here that Dorian did not outwork anyone. He simply did the same as most pro's. He did 3 to 4 sets of an exercise pyramiding the weight each set which pre exhausts the muscle before the top set. His sets were not 'warm ups' as he likes to believe. The grimacing displayed on his face on some of those so called warm ups in Blood and Guts proves that. Even on some exercises he never went to failure, notably deadlifts, barbell rows, stiff leg deadlifts, he just did 6 normal reps and that was it.
Fact is, what you see in blood and guts was just for entertainment purposes. It is not a training manual.
Also, Yates only used used the blood and guts method once or twice a year for 6 to 8 weeks. The rest of the year he did more pump sets since you can't train heavy and to the max long term. Even powerlifters don't do that. They cycle their training to avoid burnout and plateaus. So no, Yates wasn't the hardest trainer ad he likes to believe. Problem with Yates is that he is his own biggest fan. He exaggerates a lot but when you actually study his workouts and such, you find he wasn't doing anything different than most bodybuilders. The guy was all hype really.
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Dorian never did hit. He did a version of powerlifting in a bodybuilding style. I totally agree with another poster on here that Dorian did not outwork anyone. He simply did the same as most pro's. He did 3 to 4 sets of an exercise pyramiding the weight each set which pre exhausts the muscle before the top set. His sets were not 'warm ups' as he likes to believe. The grimacing displayed on his face on some of those so called warm ups in Blood and Guts proves that. Even on some exercises he never went to failure, notably deadlifts, barbell rows, stiff leg deadlifts, he just did 6 normal reps and that was it.
Fact is, what you see in blood and guts was just for entertainment purposes. It is not a training manual.
Also, Yates only used used the blood and guts method once or twice a year for 6 to 8 weeks. The rest of the year he did more pump sets since you can't train heavy and to the max long term. Even powerlifters don't do that. They cycle their training to avoid burnout and plateaus. So no, Yates wasn't the hardest trainer ad he likes to believe. Problem with Yates is that he is his own biggest fan. He exaggerates a lot but when you actually study his workouts and such, you find he wasn't doing anything different than most bodybuilders. The guy was all hype really.
He won Mr O that's all that matters. You still sound very bitter..Shawn
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watch any video where Yates is training someone, he always pushes them further than he used to go....
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watch any video where Yates is training someone, he always pushes them further than he used to go....
LOL great point!
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watch any video where Yates is training someone, he always pushes them further than he used to go....
OK Mr O ::)
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OK Mr O ::)
Go watch his Blood andf Guts chest routine and tell me if you think it was the hardest training bodybuilder in the world
He didnt go to failure let alone any forced reps
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I liked to do 2-3 weeks of volume and then 1 week of HIT.
x2 this is the way
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watch any video where Yates is training someone, he always pushes them further than he used to go....
Lmao I was thinking the same thing. No way those trainees keep going for weeks on a program like that. You’d make progress first two weeks and then over training symptoms would prevent you from carrying on.
I used to train HIT style for a week, maybe 3-4 times a year. Or when I travelled and found a bad ass gym with great equipment and a pull over machine. Can’t do it long-term or you’re asking for an injury.
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Go watch his Blood andf Guts chest routine and tell me if you think it was the hardest training bodybuilder in the world
He didnt go to failure let alone any forced reps
Not everyone grunts or pulls a face when they shoot their load either
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Not everyone grunts or pulls a face when they shoot their load either
Last set incline bench 8 pretty easy reps then racked it
Fucking brutal
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Last set incline bench 8 pretty easy reps then racked it
Fucking brutal
why the hate? ::) he won Mr O, you didn´t champ.
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Just like Phil Hernon never did HIT, Big Beyond Belief to attain his physique. We all change routines up, lift heavy, volume, etc. The 90s kept it pretty simple. Off season lift heavier and pre-contest lift for volume.
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why the hate? ::) he won Mr O, you didn´t champ.
Hate?
Guy was a great bodybuilder
I think he had the training down pat, a bit like Haney, stimulate dont annihilate, watch the Blood and guts videos with the sound off, without that guy screaming it is much better to watch and doesnt come across as anywhere near as intense.
He just does a few sets , heavy and moderate reps, pretty much a standard bodybuilding routine
The video where he pushed Cormir on legs was way harder than Dorians leg routine in Blood and guts
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Hate?
Guy was a great bodybuilder
I think he had the training down pat, a bit like Haney, stimulate dont annihilate, watch the Blood and guts videos with the sound off, without that guy screaming it is much better to watch and doesnt come across as anywhere near as intense.
He just does a few sets , heavy and moderate reps, pretty much a standard bodybuilding routine
The video where he pushed Cormir on legs was way harder than Dorians leg routine in Blood and guts
watch when he did barbell rows. you couldn´t squat that champ :D
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watch when he did barbell rows. you couldn´t squat that champ :D
I dont squat at all....
watch it with the sound turned off ;)
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Dorian never did hit. He did a version of powerlifting in a bodybuilding style. I totally agree with another poster on here that Dorian did not outwork anyone. He simply did the same as most pro's. He did 3 to 4 sets of an exercise pyramiding the weight each set which pre exhausts the muscle before the top set. His sets were not 'warm ups' as he likes to believe. Thee did, what? grimacing displayed on his face on some of those so called warm ups in Blood and Guts proves that. Even on some exercises he never went to failure, notably deadlifts, barbell rows, stiff leg deadlifts, he just did 6 normal reps and that was it.
About the warm-up sets, I beg to differ.
In his video, he started out with barbell inclines. 135, 225, and 315 sets were clearly no struggle. He did, what? Six reps with three plates?
Seeing as how he did six perfect reps with either 415 or 425, I don't see why that disqualifies his status as a "HIT" trainer. Indeed, he went on to do a max set of Hammer Press, another max set on incline fly and on the cable crossover. Admittedly, that's more than most so-called HIT people do; then again, HIT covers a whole spectrum, even paradigm, of training. Nobody can really identify where HIT ends and volume begins. Was Arnold doing "volume" opposite Johnny Fuller? Did any of the 90s crew do volume compared to Sonny Schmidt?
Dorian warmed up with progressively heavier weights but saved his energy for a few top sets per bodypart. Set total varied per muscle but he seemed to fall in the 4-8 range.
P.S. -- I know what Jeff is going to say :)
His incline was taken to technical failure. It's obvious he wouldn't get another by himself. Yes, it's also true that Yates left a rep or two in the tank on some of the aforementioned exercises. I don't see that as him being any less than a very hard trainer for two reasons:
The exercises he seemingly stopped early were all movements that could further exacerbate his biceps injury
This is shit he did day in, day out for years on end. It's one thing to drill yourself into the ground for a few months, or even a couple of years. It's entirely another to go from almost nothing in 83 to the freakiest human to walk the planet just ten years later.
Fact is, what you see in blood and guts was just for entertainment purposes. It is not a training manual.
Also, Yates only used used the blood and guts method once or twice a year for 6 to 8 weeks. The rest of the year he did more pump sets since you can't train heavy and to the max long term. Even powerlifters don't do that. They cycle their training to avoid burnout and plateaus. So no, Yates wasn't the hardest trainer ad he likes to believe. Problem with Yates is that he is his own biggest fan. He exaggerates a lot but when you actually study his workouts and such, you find he wasn't doing anything different than most bodybuilders. The guy was all hype really.
I'm sorry to differ with you, but that's pure bullshit.
Yates logged his workouts religiously early on, and there's nothing in them to substantiate your claims. His training logs from the mid-eighties up to and after the '91 Olympia are readily available via .pdf. You won't find "pump training" or such there.
Was he the hardest trainer? Set per set, no, not versus some guys; but year-round? He probably worked harder than most of his contemporaries, many of whom were notoriously lazy in the gym (Wheeler, Dilett) and/or partied their asses off (Cormier)? Yes, especially after Levrone took to his long layoffs. Shawn Ray was up there, though.
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Just like Phil Hernon never did HIT, Big Beyond Belief to attain his physique. We all change routines up, lift heavy, volume, etc. The 90s kept it pretty simple. Off season lift heavier and pre-contest lift for volume.
The whole program of Big Beyond Belief was to constantly change your routine up.
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I dont squat at all....
watch it with the sound turned off ;)
oh shut up ::)
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watch any video where Yates is training someone, he always pushes them further than he used to go....
Very true. Yates trained no harder than anyone else. He trained with no more intensity than those in Pumping Iron.
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Lmao I was thinking the same thing. No way those trainees keep going for weeks on a program like that. You’d make progress first two weeks and then over training symptoms would prevent you from carrying on.
I used to train HIT style for a week, maybe 3-4 times a year. Or when I travelled and found a bad ass gym with great equipment and a pull over machine. Can’t do it long-term or you’re asking for an injury.
Very true. Even Yates never trained all out long term. Most of the time he used a bit more sets and cut back on the intensity. This was all confirmed by those I spoke to who trained at temple gym back in the 90's.
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About the warm-up sets, I beg to differ.
"In his video, he started out with barbell inclines. 135, 225, and 315 sets were clearly no struggle. He did, what? Six reps with three plates?
Seeing as how he did six perfect reps with either 415 or 425, I don't see why that disqualifies his status as a "HIT" trainer."
No. He was grimacing, his reps were slow due to the weight he was using and Leeroy was spotting him. Hardly a warm up set.
"Indeed, he went on to do a max set of Hammer Press, another max set on incline fly and on the cable crossover. Admittedly, that's more than most so-called HIT people do; then again, HIT covers a whole spectrum, even paradigm, of training. Nobody can really identify where HIT ends and volume begins. Was Arnold doing "volume" opposite Johnny Fuller? Did any of the 90s crew do volume compared to Sonny Schmidt?"
Hit does not cover much at all. Volume is what bodybuilders use to build up their bodies. Yates was no different.
"Dorian warmed up with progressively heavier weights but saved his energy for a few top sets per bodypart. Set total varied per muscle but he seemed to fall in the 4-8 range."
Nope. I have his books. He kept the reps 6 to 10 on upper body movements and 8 to 12 for lower body movements. His sets were work up sets. None of them were warm ups. Just because he didn't go "all out" on them doesn't mean the load of the weight wasn't working the muscle fibres hard. You don't have a clue about load and tension.
P.S. -- I know what Jeff is going to say :)
"His incline was taken to technical failure. It's obvious he wouldn't get another by himself. Yes, it's also true that Yates left a rep or two in the tank on some of the aforementioned exercises. I don't see that as him being any less than a very hard trainer for two reasons:
The exercises he seemingly stopped early were all movements that could further exacerbate his biceps injury"
Not true. Stiff leg deaflifts don't involve the biceps much if at all.
"This is shit he did day in, day out for years on end. It's one thing to drill yourself into the ground for a few months, or even a couple of years. It's entirely another to go from almost nothing in 83 to the freakiest human to walk the planet just ten years later."
You're forgetting the huge cocktail of drugs he was on. And no, his training routine was more sets and volume for the most pf his training years.
"I'm sorry to differ with you, but that's pure bullshit."
It's not.
"Yates logged his workouts religiously early on, and there's nothing in them to substantiate your claims. His training logs from the mid-eighties up to and after the '91 Olympia are readily available via .pdf. You won't find "pump training" or such there."
Spoke to those who trained at temple gym in the 90's. He only did that blood and guts trainjng precontest. Rest of the year he did more pump sets. You can't train heavy to the max all year round. The cns will burnout and the stress on the joints would be too much. Dorian logged his workouts which you can now buy on Amazon. He was not doing hit in those early workouts. He did a combination of pyramid sets, reverse sets, straight sets and drop sets but no one set to failure.
"Was he the hardest trainer? Set per set, no, not versus some guys; but year-round? He probably worked harder than most of his contemporaries, many of whom were notoriously lazy in the gym (Wheeler, Dilett) and/or partied their asses off (Cormier)? Yes, especially after Levrone took to his long layoffs. Shawn Ray was up there, though."
Again nope. He trained no harder than any other bodybuilder. His training was pyramid sets. Most pro's use them in their workouts. Nothing special or radical about it.
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I am currently reading Yates bio now. Little over half way through and at the chapters regarding the 92 Mr. O. But one thing he has stated about HIT and his training belief(s) is/are that you need no more than 3-4 work sets per muscle to stimulate growth. He would do one (or two) sets mainly just to get the feel of the movement that he was about to perform. He didn't count these sets because they were not taxing enough to stimulate the muscle for growth.
He said that in terms of all out intensity, using forced reps and negatives, he still trained 3 times per week, 3-4 work sets per muscle and only for about 6 weeks at a time before lowering the intensity and dropping the negatives and forced reps. He states that continuing to train with high intensity after about 6 weeks was counter productive to muscle growth. That after 6 weeks of high intensity training your body needed more rest and recovery for growth than it needed actual training. He went back to training to muscle failure (stopping when the next rep would not be possible) as opposed to exceeding failure with forced reps and negatives. He believed in total rest and recovery for the body and CNS instead of just rest for the muscles (training them sooner just because they were not sore).
I can't speak for how honest he is being in the book, but he sounds sincere. I mean why would he lie? About the drugs maybe, but training? It makes no sense. He isn't profiting off his training ideas or methods, so no reason for him to be deceptive about it I would think.
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The irony is the high volume is better than HIT in the long run
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The irony is the high volume is better than HIT in the long run
as long as it´s not too much volume like the ridiculous volume seen in arnold´s book... :-\
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as long as it´s not too much volume like the ridiculous volume seen in arnold´s book... :-\
Nothing wrong with Arnold's volume. It works.
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Nothing wrong with Arnold's volume. It works.
:D yeah OK... you do understand (or maybe not) that he never really trained like this most of the year.
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as long as it´s not too much volume like the ridiculous volume seen in arnold´s book... :-\
Exactly, the secret is high volume, but NEVER train very hard, always just stimulate, don't anihilate, do NOT go to failure often, always keep a rep or 2 in the tank, to avoid overtraining, as long as there's progressive overload, there will be muscle growth
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Exactly, the secret is high volume, but NEVER train very hard, always just stimulate, don't anihilate, do NOT go to failure often, always keep a rep or 2 in the tank, to avoid overtraining, as long as there's progressive overload, there will be muscle growth
I actually like doing two sets per exercise now. however what works works... :)
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The irony is the high volume is better than HIT in the long run
TBH it’s not in the short run though.
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TBH it’s not in the short run though.
Bro...
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:D yeah OK... you do understand (or maybe not) that he never really trained like this most of the year.
He still did a good amount of volume during the year. Off season was 10 to 15 sets a bodypart (sometimes a bit more) focusing on more mass building movements. Precontest more focused on isolation movements added to the routine upping the volume to 20 to 25 sets. Most bodybuilders still do this practice of cycling the volume.
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I would not hit Mr. Yates.
Is everyone gay here?
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I would not hit Mr. Yates.
Is everyone gay here?
Only if you want them to be
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He still did a good amount of volume during the year. Off season was 10 to 15 sets a bodypart (sometimes a bit more) focusing on more mass building movements. Precontest more focused on isolation movements added to the routine upping the volume to 20 to 25 sets. Most bodybuilders still do this practice of cycling the volume.
Not according to people around him at that time like Ric Drasin & Jerry brainum.
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Not according to people around him at that time like Ric Drasin & Jerry brainum.
Yes. Exactly like people like Ric Drasin and Jerry Brainum. I've asked them.
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Yes. Exactly like people like Ric Drasin and Jerry Brainum. I've asked them.
Well ric drasin has been dead for at least a year & they both said in videos that he was doing much shorter workouts off season & lost loads of size off the juice. There's pictures of him on the Web looking like a swimmer.
It's hard for some people to come to terms with the reality that their heroes are not what they thought.
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Well ric drasin has been dead for at least a year & they both said in videos that he was doing much shorter workouts off season & lost loads of size off the juice. There's pictures of him on the Web looking like a swimmer.
It's hard for some people to come to terms with the reality that their heroes are not what they thought.
In the offseason, as I had stated, Arnold did 10 to 15 sets per bodypart and sometimes a bit more. Drasin may be dead but I asked him on his channel. They did plenty of sets for the most part. Yes Arnold came off the juice at times. Especially for acting in a role. These pics you see of him are from after his bodybuilding career while he was starting his acting career. Sorry but I know well more than you on the subject.
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In the offseason, as I had stated, Arnold did 10 to 15 sets per bodypart and sometimes a bit more. Drasin may be dead but I asked him on his channel. They did plenty of sets for the most part. Yes Arnold came off the juice at times. Especially for acting in a role. These pics you see of him are from after his bodybuilding career while he was starting his acting career. Sorry but I know well more than you on the subject.
well i thought the way you wrote that you had been around these Guys in the gym..but no you got it off the web. :D Listen these guys say one thing then a month later the story changes. Don´t believe everything.
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Very true. Even Yates never trained all out long term. Most of the time he used a bit more sets and cut back on the intensity. This was all confirmed by those I spoke to who trained at temple gym back in the 90's.
ah OK..off the web again?
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About Arnold being so skinny. Yes he was skinny after he retired in 75. He started running. Did some charity marathon bs stuff. Came completely off the gear and hardly weight trained. He did that because he thought he was going to be a serious actor and there was no need to be big since he wasn't competing. Even when he was competing he would take time off from the gear in between contests ( most did) He would train but not like pre contest. 2 or 3 exercises per body part 4 or 5 sets in a pyramid fashion. But when it came contest time it was double splits 6 days a week and gear. About 2 hours each workout. For about 8 weeks . Everyone trained like that. That is why they all looked so much better than guys now. Dan Duchaine even said that "steroids work best when you over train". So they did over train basically only they didn't really understand it. Guys now days and even in Dorians days never came off and used way more stuff and they all train the same way off season or pre contest etc so they all look the same. Back in the day you knew who people were even if you didn't see their face
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About Arnold being so skinny. Yes he was skinny after he retired in 75. He started running. Did some charity marathon bs stuff. Came completely off the gear and hardly weight trained. He did that because he thought he was going to be a serious actor and there was no need to be big since he wasn't competing. Even when he was competing he would take time off from the gear in between contests ( most did) He would train but not like pre contest. 2 or 3 exercises per body part 4 or 5 sets in a pyramid fashion. But when it came contest time it was double splits 6 days a week and gear. About 2 hours each workout. For about 8 weeks . Everyone trained like that. That is why they all looked so much better than guys now. Dan Duchaine even said that "steroids work best when you over train". So they did over train basically only they didn't really understand it. Guys now days and even in Dorians days never came off and used way more stuff and they all train the same way off season or pre contest etc so they all look the same. Back in the day you knew who people were even if you didn't see their face
before his acting career took off he was known to lose size fast .. I know all the arnold die hards don´t want to hear it but off the D-Bol he was a much smaller guy. stands to reason he couldn´t train with the same volume. ::)
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Very true. Even Yates never trained all out long term. Most of the time he used a bit more sets and cut back on the intensity. This was all confirmed by those I spoke to who trained at temple gym back in the 90's.
And who did you speak to ??
I trained at Dorian's gym & Know a few from back then Also
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there is no hit. never was. i thought anybody of reasonable intelligence laughed off this with other made up fad bullshit long ago
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before his acting career took off he was known to lose size fast .. I know all the arnold die hards don´t want to hear it but off the D-Bol he was a much smaller guy. stands to reason he couldn´t train with the same volume. ::)
Arnold has and had massive ribcage, hands,
He.has large structure
Off the juice his delts.and upper chest is nowhere impressive but he dwarfed everybody thanks to his.massive frame.
I.guess.he seemed lanky when he was off because he couldn't fill his frame naturally.
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there is no hit. never was. i thought anybody of reasonable intelligence laughed off this with other made up fad bullshit long ago
Oh, it exists. There is a whole army of (s)HIT warriors who swear by it.
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His "warm up" sets were completely unnecessary he would have made the same results with one set if he had slowed down, reduced the weight a little and really used clean form, more like superslow HIT. Saying he did 3 sets because he did a couple of warmups is daft, it's like thinking your walk to the gym contributes to your leg gains. The RPE on those sets is way too low to be meaningful.
HIT isn't better or worse than high volume, it's more time efficient at the cost of being much more CNS intensive.
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His "warm up" sets were completely unnecessary he would have made the same results with one set if he had slowed down, reduced the weight a little and really used clean form, more like superslow HIT. Saying he did 3 sets because he did a couple of warmups is daft, it's like thinking your walk to the gym contributes to your leg gains. The RPE on those sets is way too low to be meaningful.
HIT isn't better or worse than high volume, it's more time efficient at the cost of being much more CNS intensive.
Yeah just one joint tearing set to failure.. haha
I think 2 sets are the minimum if you are using intensive training. Don't know about his dungeon days but certainly later on Dorian stretched a fair bit too.
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Yeah just one joint tearing set to failure.. haha
I think 2 sets are the minimum if you are using intensive training. Don't know about his dungeon days but certainly later on Dorian stretched a fair bit too.
Yep, chip the ice off the weights in the gym in sub zero temperature , pile the weights on to your maximum poundage and do one set to failure
Then get your training partner to take you to the emergency room.
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Arnold has and had massive ribcage, hands,
He.has large structure
Off the juice his delts.and upper chest is nowhere impressive but he dwarfed everybody thanks to his.massive frame.
I.guess.he seemed lanky when he was off because he couldn't fill his frame naturally.
In his Encyclopedia book he says he doesn't actually have a big frame and people would often be surprised how relatively small his wrists were.
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In his Encyclopedia book he says he doesn't actually have a big frame and people would often be surprised how relatively small his wrists were because he was all drugs.
fixed
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In his Encyclopedia book he says he doesn't actually have a big frame and people would often be surprised how relatively small his wrists were.
I dont recall reading anything like that, he said he was an ecto-mesomorph, which is understandable, given was rarely over 12 percent bodyfat (one exception seems 1966 when he bulked up after military and 1968)
He still have large hands and thick torso, without drugs he would never fill out sans drugs, but he wouldnt be half impressive if it wasnt for his large frame, my two cents.
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I dont recall reading anything like that, he said he was an ecto-mesomorph, which is understandable, given was rarely over 12 percent bodyfat (one exception seems 1966 when he bulked up after military and 1968)
He still have large hands and thick torso, without drugs he would never fill out sans drugs, but he wouldnt be half impressive if it wasnt for his large frame, my two cents.
All said & Done Who really cares - Facts are He Built An ATG Physique
Whatever his Bone structure or Steroid usage, its all irrelevant There hasnt & isn't another Man
Built like Arnold .
Personally I don't get all The He Took this & That , He wouldn't of looked like that otherwise Nonsense !!
He Did what he Did & Had The Great Physique that is Still awesome today.
We are all able to do as Arnold did & See if we can attain a comparable Physique.
Simple as That. 🙂
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All said & Done Who really cares - Facts are He Built An ATG Physique
Whatever his Bone structure or Steroid usage, its all irrelevant There hasnt & isn't another Man
Built like Arnold .
Personally I don't get all The He Took this & That , He wouldn't of looked like that otherwise Nonsense !!
He Did what he Did & Had The Great Physique that is Still awesome today.
:D
We are all able to do as Arnold did & See if we can attain a comparable Physique.
Simple as That. 🙂
Are you Paul Graham
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Are you Paul Graham
Are You Yet Another Idiot on GetBig ???
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Are You Yet Another Idiot on GetBig ???
Hi Paul ;D
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Arnold is Numero Uno.
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Hi Paul ;D
Yes of Course you are - it's self Evident ::)
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I dont recall reading anything like that, he said he was an ecto-mesomorph, which is understandable, given was rarely over 12 percent bodyfat (one exception seems 1966 when he bulked up after military and 1968)
He still have large hands and thick torso, without drugs he would never fill out sans drugs, but he wouldnt be half impressive if it wasnt for his large frame, my two cents.
It's in his 'The New Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding'.
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Arnold in 1977
(https://preview.redd.it/55sh0igwavk31.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=76f0d04f3afd7aad5f1c4eb523f83ff5bf72bc48)
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Arnold doesn't have a big frame.
Without drugs he is around 200-210 at just under 6'2".
The guy is a hyper-responder to steroids with great muscle attachments.
He'd be a free safety in football if he could run, which he can't.
He's slow as shit.
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Arnold doesn't have a big frame.
Without drugs he is around 200-210 at just under 6'2".
The guy is a hyper-responder to steroids with great muscle attachments.
He'd be a free safety in football if he could run, which he can't.
He's slow as shit.
Bro...
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Arnold doesn't have a big frame.
Without drugs he is around 200-210 at just under 6'2".
The guy is a hyper-responder to steroids with great muscle attachments.
He'd be a free safety in football if he could run, which he can't.
He's slow as shit.
I see him more as a linebacker if he played American football.
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Arnold doesn't have a big frame.
Without drugs he is around 200-210 at just under 6'2".
The guy is a hyper-responder to steroids with great muscle attachments.
He'd be a free safety in football if he could run, which he can't.
He's slow as shit.
When you see Arnold next to Sergio, his large frame becomes more apperant.
Sergio was the greatest with his crazy muscle bellies and roundness, tiny waist and hips but his frame was much smaller than Arnold.
Arnold wouldn't be competitive without juice, he could never fill his frame.
He has broad chest and deep ribcage, when he is off drugs his upper chest is non existent, but he was no Andreas Munzer.
Munzer had muscles top on muscles with shitty frame, you can tell when somebody has great musculature but small frame.
Larry Scott had crazy deltoids but all the size couldn't hide his lack of shoulder girdle.
Arnold had much better skeletal frame than average but Lee Haney, Ronnie Coleman, Lou Ferrigno had much larger frames IMO.
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Sergio was 5'9".
Arnold was 6'1.5"
Of course Arnold looks bigger. He's almost 5 inches taller.
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I see him more as a linebacker if he played American football.
Not at 200 or 210.
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Arnold doesn't have a big frame.
Without drugs he is around 200-210 at just under 6'2".
The guy is a hyper-responder to steroids with great muscle attachments.
He'd be a free safety in football if he could run, which he can't.
He's slow as shit.
his frame is fine, who's the same height w a bigger frame? Sean Allan? Schlierkamp is the same size, Wolf is a bit shorter but I don't think he's wider. It's hard to assess w all the drugs honestly.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dACbVXkqFaM/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Not at 200 or 210.
No, when he was at 240 if he had speed.
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No, when he was at 240 if he had speed.
He's slow.
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He's slow.
I read what you said earlier that's why I said "if he had speed." If he's slow being a safety would be even worse for him.
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I read what you said earlier that's why I said "if he had speed." If he's slow being a safety would be even worse for him.
Gotcha.
I meant he was right sized for a safety but too slow to be one. Too slow to be in football period.
Watch him move in Hercules in New York. He moves poorly. Looks good, plays like Jane.
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Gotcha.
I meant he was right sized for a safety but too slow to be one. Too slow to be in football period.
Watch him move in Hercules in New York. He moves poorly. Looks good, plays like Jane.
He got hurt on the set of Conan because he couldn't outrun a dog. ;D
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He got hurt on the set of Conan because he couldn't outrun a dog. ;D
not many people can outrun a dog
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Is Dennis Wolf coming back?
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Is Dennis Wolf coming back?
Hopefully not. We don't need anymore RIP threads.
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ah OK..off the web again?
No. I live in the UK. I've trained with a lot of bodybuilders and some knew Yates. Sorry to burst your fantasy but Yates is lying.
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No. I live in the UK. I've trained with a lot of bodybuilders and some knew Yates. Sorry to burst your fantasy but Yates is lying.
Hahaha....man this is Gold
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his frame is fine, who's the same height w a bigger frame? Sean Allan? Schlierkamp is the same size, Wolf is a bit shorter but I don't think he's wider. It's hard to assess w all the drugs honestly.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dACbVXkqFaM/maxresdefault.jpg)
This picture is interesting, it's like Wolf lost size in his delts and arms but his chest is actually bigger now
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No. I live in the UK. I've trained with a lot of bodybuilders and some knew Yates. Sorry to burst your fantasy but Yates is lying.
So Do I
And Have Employed & worked with 1 of his early training partners
Have trained at Temple Gym
Know Dorian & Kerry kayes / Ernie Taylor / Simon Fan / Gary Lister etc etc
You Never Answered my Post as To Who you Had Spoken to / Told You.?
You Just avoided it & disappeared.
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This picture is interesting, it's like Wolf lost size in his delts and arms but his chest is actually bigger now
legit kigtropins blow delts up from within,,,,
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legit kigtropins blow delts up from within,,,,
Bro...
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Are You Yet Another Idiot on GetBig ???
HA HA HA HA HA HA LOL ;D
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Hahaha....man this is Gold
Yes it's gold as it's a fact.
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So Do I
And Have Employed 7 worked with 1 of his early training partners
Have trained at Temple Gym
Know Dorian & Kerry kayes / Ernie Taylor / Simon Fan / Gary Lister etc etc
You Never Answered my Post as To Who you Had Spoken to / Told You.?
You Just avoided it & disappeared.
What was the beef with Fan and the Yates in the gym? Was it a dispute about "supplement" sales in the gym?
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Yes it's gold as it's a fact.
...and yet you won't cite a single name who could corroborate your lies.
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Yes it's gold as it's a fact.
Why are You Completely ignoring this 3x I've posted it !!
Are you Full of Crap & Lying......???
So Do I
And Have Employed & worked with 1 of his early training partners
Have trained at Temple Gym
Know Dorian & Kerry kayes / Ernie Taylor / Simon Fan / Gary Lister etc etc
You Never Answered my Post as To Who you Had Spoken to / Told You.?
You Just avoided it & disappeared.
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What was the beef with Fan and the Yates in the gym? Was it a dispute about "supplement" sales in the gym?
Let's See RMJ Reply & see if He Knows... as he's avoided my reply / question to him 3x now. ::)
If he doesn't / can't I'll tell you.
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...and yet you won't cite a single name who could corroborate your lies.
Exactly - he's avoided my answer & question to him 3x now....
Seems he's a Dreamer / Liar. ::)
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Exactly - he's avoided my answer & question to him 3x now....
Seems he's a Dreamer / Liar. ::)
He tried the same with me.
Weird chap, RMJ. He rolls through about once a month and does nothing but talk training volume :?: I feel like I'm at misc.fitness.weights all over again, LOL.
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He tried the same with me.
Weird chap, RMJ. He rolls through about once a month and does nothing but talk training volume :?: I feel like I'm at misc.fitness.weights all over again, LOL.
I noticed he disappeared when I posted my answer/question to him off of this thread yet posted on other's - then came back after a while & others had posted so he didn't answer my post.
I'm Thinking he's
1, full of Crap
2, Is a wannabe
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This picture is interesting, it's like Wolf lost size in his delts and arms but his chest is actually bigger now
How are his calves looking these days?
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How are his calves looking these days?
At a guess Not Good . :D
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So Do I
And Have Employed & worked with 1 of his early training partners
Have trained at Temple Gym
Know Dorian & Kerry kayes / Ernie Taylor / Simon Fan / Gary Lister etc etc
You Never Answered my Post as To Who you Had Spoken to / Told You.?
You Just avoided it &
Now, Yates did more sets to build up in his early days. His training journals proves this. You obviously need to do more research. Oh, and I don't belive you know Ermie Taylor or Kerry Kayes etc. Yes, I've spoken to those who trained at temple gym back in the day. Yates did more sets in the offseason and not the one set to failure guff.
Even Lee Priest has stated so.
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So Do I
And Have Employed & worked with 1 of his early training partners
Have trained at Temple Gym
Know Dorian & Kerry kayes / Ernie Taylor / Simon Fan / Gary Lister etc etc
You Never Answered my Post as To Who you Had Spoken to / Told You.?
You Just avoided it &
Now, Yates did more sets to build up in his early days. His training journals proves this. You obviously need to do more research. Oh, and I don't belive you know Ermie Taylor or Kerry Kayes etc. Yes, I've spoken to those who trained at temple gym back in the day. Yates did more sets in the offseason and not the one set to failure guff.
Even Lee Priest has stated so.
Then clearly you are a fake Bullshitter -
I didn't say I was best friends with Kerry or Ernie - Though I knew both well
to be on 1st name terms a few years back, i have zero need to lie - unlike
yourself who posts a video of lee priest & not the names of Those you talked to Who trained at Temple Gym.
I trained their & named names - i have no need to post a video of Lee
Whom I do not know or ever spoken to.
Keep Dreaming Boy.
-
Then clearly you are a fake Bullshitter -
I didn't say I was best friends with Kerry or Ernie - Though I knew both well
to be on 1st name terms a few years back, i have zero need to lie - unlike
yourself who posts a video of lee priest & not the names of Those you talked to Who trained at Temple Gym.
I trained their & named names - i have no need to post a video of Lee
Whom I do not know or ever spoken to.
Keep Dreaming Boy.
Yeah, you do that.
-
Yeah, you do that.
Ha , says The wannabe - I very clearly Exposed you for your Lies
As You cannot post anything to Back up your statements.
Oh go ask your people who Know people who trained at / with Dorian.
;D :D ;D :D
-
Look how Fucking Rapidly-Rat-Man-Joke 11 Dissappeared off this Thread
When Confronted & Called out.
Now has he's Crawled out from under his Rock to post on another Thread. 🙄
-
Look how Fucking Rapidly-Rat-Man-Joke 11 Dissappeared off this Thread
When Confronted & Called out.
Now has he's Crawled out from under his Rock to post on another Thread. 🙄
No way HIT works it’s a load of shit
-
No way HIT works it’s a load of shit
That's not my point . 🤷🏻♂️
-
Ha , says The wannabe - I very clearly Exposed you for your Lies
As You cannot post anything to Back up your statements.
Oh go ask your people who Know people who trained at / with Dorian.
;D :D ;D :D
You didn't.
-
No way HIT works it’s a load of shit
Exactly. Even Yates never did hit.
-
I don't get it, why kill yourself in the gym and do super high intensity for 1 set, when you can do 20-30 sets taking it easy and get the same results?
-
I don't get it, why kill yourself in the gym and do super high intensity for 1 set, when you can do 20-30 sets taking it easy and get the same results?
Try 3 or 4 sets.
-
You didn't.
Yes I did - You ran away from the Thread & Couldn't Name a single name.
Fuck Off.
-
Very true. Even Yates never trained all out long term. Most of the time he used a bit more sets and cut back on the intensity. This was all confirmed by those I spoke to who trained at temple gym back in the 90's.
Didn't Dorian train first thing in the AM prior to the gym even opening? Then he'd open up after his training was complete? I'm sure he mentioned this somewhere; I don't recall where. My point being: maybe when he was doing little bits and bobs after his workouts later on in the day - is when those who trained at temple saw him fucking about maybe doing cardio or light weights?
I'm from Birmingham and used to visit the original temple - getting your car out of that fucking alleyway was a bastard having the cars moved. My friend Simon was managing it at the time and this was maybe 10 years after Dorian retired. Nice mix of foiks in there tbh.
-
Didn't Dorian train first thing in the AM prior to the gym even opening? Then he'd open up after his training was complete? I'm sure he mentioned this somewhere; I don't recall where. My point being: maybe when he was doing little bits and bobs after his workouts later on in the day - is when those who trained at temple saw him fucking about maybe doing cardio or light weights?
I'm from Birmingham and used to visit the original temple - getting your car out of that fucking alleyway was a bastard having the cars moved. My friend Simon was managing it at the time and this was maybe 10 years after Dorian retired. Nice mix of foiks in there tbh.
yes, he only opened 12-8
He trained in the morning
-
yes, he only opened 12-8
He trained in the morning
That's what I thought. I think with age I self-doubt whether I imagined something. lol ;D
-
Yes I did - You ran away from the Thread & Couldn't Name a single name.
Fuck Off.
Yep.
Sorry, RMJ. I know the HIT shit is something you get wrapped all around the axle over during your monthly visits here, but Illuminati is right. You didn't give us a SINGLE eyewitness' name; moreover, even if you did, eyewitness testimony is garbage. The only thing worse is hearsay, which is almost totally worthless, and that's about all you offered: unproven hearsay from anonymous people which has been contradicted again, again and again by people we CAN name, all of whom have basically said, "Dorian trains as he said he does."
I also distinctly recall you grossly misrepresenting what we saw in Dorian's video (e.g., you claimed he was struggling with 315 on an incline press,and that Leroy "had his hands on the bar" for that EASY warm-up, which is patently FALSE). To that end, I don't know if you were misremembering things, outright lying or there's a language barrier...since, as noted, you blow through Getbig only so often, I'm tempted to dismiss you as a troll and liar.
That you strawmandered the ever living hell of most of my responses is consistent with that, and/or a language barrier or, just maybe, you have an overly narrow definition of what HIT means. It certainly isn't restricted to "one set per exercise to failure," and it's beyond fucking silly to look at a workout consisting of maybe three or four hard sets total and say, "No, no! That's not HIT for pecs! He did some warm-up sets!"
Yeah, so? If you can incline 425 for six in an all-out effort, counting the 135x10, 225x8 and 315x4-6 as "work sets" is stupid. They didn't stimulate growth.
The last time this shit came up, I explained that nomenclature can be a funny thing so, before we trade more insults, let me ask you this, RMJ: how do you define HIT? At what point does an ostentatiously "HIT" routine become something else?
-
The question is, how strong was Dorian?
-
Yep.
Sorry, RMJ. I know the HIT shit is something you get wrapped all around the axle over during your monthly visits here, but Illuminati is right. You didn't give us a SINGLE eyewitness' name; moreover, even if you did, eyewitness testimony is garbage. The only thing worse is hearsay, which is almost totally worthless, and that's about all you offered: unproven hearsay from anonymous people which has been contradicted again, again and again by people we CAN name, all of whom have basically said, "Dorian trains as he said he does."
I also distinctly recall you grossly misrepresenting what we saw in Dorian's video (e.g., you claimed he was struggling with 315 on an incline press,and that Leroy "had his hands on the bar" for that EASY warm-up, which is patently FALSE). To that end, I don't know if you were misremembering things, outright lying or there's a language barrier...since, as noted, you blow through Getbig only so often, I'm tempted to dismiss you as a troll and liar.
That you strawmandered the ever living hell of most of my responses is consistent with that, and/or a language barrier or, just maybe, you have an overly narrow definition of what HIT means. It certainly isn't restricted to "one set per exercise to failure," and it's beyond fucking silly to look at a workout consisting of maybe three or four hard sets total and say, "No, no! That's not HIT for pecs! He did some warm-up sets!"
Yeah, so? If you can incline 425 for six in an all-out effort, counting the 135x10, 225x8 and 315x4-6 as "work sets" is stupid. They didn't stimulate growth.
The last time this shit came up, I explained that nomenclature can be a funny thing so, before we trade more insults, let me ask you this, RMJ: how do you define HIT? At what point does an ostentatiously "HIT" routine become something else?
In his blood and guts video his chest workout consisted of a few warm ups then 1 set of inclines where he stopped at 8 reps, no assist no forced reps
then a few machine press, couple sets of dumbells and cables
It was a regular bodybuilding workout no different than the majority of gym rats do every day
Best to watch it with the sound off so that moron shouting doesnt convince you its much harder than it actually was.
-
Tbh nobody ever trained harder than Dorian
-
Tbh nobody ever trained harder than Dorian
Paul Dillett trained brutally hard.
-
Paul Dillett trained brutally hard.
Isometric contractions on a stage?
-
Yes I did - You ran away from the Thread & Couldn't Name a single name.
Fuck Off.
Nope. I'm still here.
-
In his blood and guts video his chest workout consisted of a few warm ups then 1 set of inclines where he stopped at 8 reps, no assist no forced reps
then a few machine press, couple sets of dumbells and cables
It was a regular bodybuilding workout no different than the majority of gym rats do every day
Best to watch it with the sound off so that moron shouting doesnt convince you its much harder than it actually was.
Exactly. Dorian never used hit, it's just regular pyramid training. Not one drop set, rest pause or static set was used. He didn't even go to failure on some exercises. How is that even hit? Yates was always about the hype. He trained no harder than most,
-
Yep.
Sorry, RMJ. I know the HIT shit is something you get wrapped all around the axle over during your monthly visits here, but Illuminati is right. You didn't give us a SINGLE eyewitness' name; moreover, even if you did, eyewitness testimony is garbage. The only thing worse is hearsay, which is almost totally worthless, and that's about all you offered: unproven hearsay from anonymous people which has been contradicted again, again and again by people we CAN name, all of whom have basically said, "Dorian trains as he said he does."
I also distinctly recall you grossly misrepresenting what we saw in Dorian's video (e.g., you claimed he was struggling with 315 on an incline press,and that Leroy "had his hands on the bar" for that EASY warm-up, which is patently FALSE). To that end, I don't know if you were misremembering things, outright lying or there's a language barrier...since, as noted, you blow through Getbig only so often, I'm tempted to dismiss you as a troll and liar.
That you strawmandered the ever living hell of most of my responses is consistent with that, and/or a language barrier or, just maybe, you have an overly narrow definition of what HIT means. It certainly isn't restricted to "one set per exercise to failure," and it's beyond fucking silly to look at a workout consisting of maybe three or four hard sets total and say, "No, no! That's not HIT for pecs! He did some warm-up sets!"
Yeah, so? If you can incline 425 for six in an all-out effort, counting the 135x10, 225x8 and 315x4-6 as "work sets" is stupid. They didn't stimulate growth.
The last time this shit came up, I explained that nomenclature can be a funny thing so, before we trade more insults, let me ask you this, RMJ: how do you define HIT? At what point does an ostentatiously "HIT" routine become something else?
All waffle. 325 on the Incline is a work set since there's a lot of load and tension on the muscle. Leeroy was spotting over him. Yates was even grimacing and his reps were slow because of the amount of weight he was handling. Just because he didn't go to failure doesn't mean the muscle fibres weren't being worked. On the following first set of the other exercises he was still going heavy and he was grimacing on those so called "warm up" set. You obviously don't know anything about load and tension.
Besides, Dorian built the majority of his mass with multiple sets. He never did hit.
-
Nope. I'm still here.
Unfortunately you are
called out by Titus for your Lies & inability to back up your spurious claims.
Soon be time for you to Fuck off to Mum's basement again.
-
Unfortunately you are
called out by Titus for your Lies & inability to back up your spurious claims.
Soon be time for you to Fuck off to Mum's basement again.
No lies. Just facts. Not my fault you can't handle facts.
-
All waffle. 325 on the Incline is a work set since there's a lot of load snd tension on the muscle. Leeroy was dotting over him. Yates was even grimacing and his reps were slow because of the amount of weight he was handling.
Rewatch the video, troll.
That 315 was easy as hell for him.
Fast-forward to 5:30.
Just because he didn't go to failure doesn't mean the muscle fibres weren't being worked.
Strawman. I never said "the muscle fibers weren't being worked," you jackass. But since the man went on to do a set ONE HUNDRED POUNDS HEAVIER FOR THE SAME NUMBER OF REPS, the 315 would do jack shit for growth. To call it a working set is misleading at best.
On the following first set of the other exercises he was still going heavy and he was grimacing on those so called "warm up" set. You obviously don't know anything about load and tension.
Besides, Dorian built the majority of his mass with multiple sets. He never did hit.
Yawn. You made the same stupid statements before. You obviously don't know anything about load, tension or, while we're at it, how to make a well-reasoned argument.
But hey, keep deluding yourself. Keep claiming you know more about how Dorian trained than he did, LOL. That's hilarious :)
P.S. -- However, I do appreciate that you're protecting the identities of all those guys who told you they saw Doz train and what he did was mostly fluff and pump lifting.
Very noble of you.
-
No lies. Just facts. Not my fault you can't handle facts.
"Facts" based on what you say many nameless others told you, based on their ostensible, anecdotal "evidence."
But like I said, I get it. You're protecting your sources' identities. After all, we wouldn't want the HIT Gestapo to hunt them down!
-
"Rewatch the video, troll.
That 315 was easy as hell for him."
It wasn't and leetoy was there spotting him. Thats not a warm up.
Fast-forward to 5:30.
"Strawman. I never said "the muscle fibers weren't being worked," you jackass."
No but I needed to educate you on that fact that his muscles were being worked hard by the load and tension. Hardly a warm up. And it's was 325 not 315.
"But since the man went on to do a set ONE HUNDRED POUNDS HEAVIER FOR THE SAME NUMBER OF REPS, the 315 would do jack shit for growth. To call it a working set is misleading at best."
Again, load and tension counts.
"Yawn. You made the same stupid statements before. You obviously don't know anything about load, tension or, while we're at it, how to make a well-reasoned argument.:
I do but your too ignorant to understand them.
"But hey, keep deluding yourself."
I'm not the deluded one here.
" Keep claiming you know more about how Dorian trained than he did, LOL. That's hilarious :)"
I obviously know more than you, kid.
"P.S. -- However, I do appreciate that you're protecting the identities of all those guys who told you they saw Doz train and what he did was mostly fluff and pump lifting."
You wouldn't know them if I told you so why bother.
"Very noble of you."
Yes. More noble than yourself for sure.
-
"Facts" based on what you say many nameless others told you, based on their ostensible, anecdotal "evidence."
Can't handle the fact that Yates has lied to you. That's not my problem. You obviously have a problem or else you wouldn't reply multiple times to my one comment.
"But like I said, I get it. You're protecting your sources' identities. After all, we wouldn't want the HIT Gestapo to hunt them down!"
Hitters are always defensive of their precious religion. I know why you're a bitter little kid because hit hasn't got you big and strong.
-
not many people can outrun a dog
You can only outrun a dog for so long until it will bite you and attack you
-
You can't even use the quotes function here properly, you dumb fuck.
Name the names, stupid.
We've been waiting for months now...and you've dodged every attempt to say shit.
Btw, troll: you say I'm a HIT guy? Ah, assumptions galore from our fly by night moron.
I can also pretty much guarantee you that, before I got sick, I would likely smoke your ass in development and training poundages.
But hey, by all means, post those names you continue to withhold.
Yes..Name the names or piss off, you wanker.
I'm calling your stupid self out. Name names or properly fuck off, as Illuminati suggested.
-
Paul Dillett trained brutally hard.
Brutal sarcasm I hope, biggest guy in Venice mid 90s using the lightest weights.
-
Brutal sarcasm I hope, biggest guy in Venice mid 90s using the lightest weights.
And should be the biggest truth. All drugs and muscle cramps. I looked up to him.
The only thing I got in return were muscle cramps.
Not muscles.
-
Paul Dillett trained brutally hard.
Bro...
-
No lies. Just facts. Not my fault you can't handle facts.
Fuck off Moron - You Can't back up your Story
Name names - not your aunties brothers dogs pet cat Friend said Dorian did this & That
Fuck off & Keep Fucking off.
-
You can't even use the quotes function here properly, you dumb fuck.
Name the names, stupid.
We've been waiting for months now...and you've dodged every attempt to say shit.
Btw, troll: you say I'm a HIT guy? Ah, assumptions galore from our fly by night moron.
I can also pretty much guarantee you that, before I got sick, I would likely smoke your ass in development and training poundages.
But hey, by all means, post those names you continue to withhold.
Yes..Name the names or piss off, you wanker.
I'm calling your stupid self out. Name names or properly fuck off, as Illuminati suggested.
He Can't as its Bollocks & lies from him
I called him out straight away with his original statement & he Run away
Only to reappear in another thread when he thought It was Forgotten about,
It wasn't - and he's Made himself look an even Bigger Plonker now with his
Stupidity.
-
I've noticed that any Dorian thread seems to drag up intense arguments whether it's Vs Nasser, Vs Ronnie, HIT vs volume, what his cycle really was, etc. Shows you that although he was The Shadow and kept away from the limelight in terms of photoshoots and glamour: he left an intense mark on bodybuilding compared to the likes of Haney before him. In pure bodybuilding terms: Dorian is only second to Arnold in terms of impact, imo.
Even more so than Ronnie.
-
Fuck off Moron - You Can't back up your Story
Name names - not your aunties brothers dogs pet cat Friend said Dorian did this & That
Fuck off & Keep Fucking off.
Not a story but fact. Facts seems to make you angry somehow.
-
He Can't as its Bollocks & lies from him
I called him out straight away with his original statement & he Run away
I didn't. I have a life you know. I do have other things going on instead of venting on forums like you do. You should try it then you ight not be so angry.
"Only to reappear in another thread when he thought It was Forgotten about,"
I like to chat about other topics too.
"It wasn't - and he's Made himself look an even Bigger Plonker now with his
Stupidity."
What stupidity? I'm not the one ranting and raving like a child.
-
I've noticed that any Dorian thread seems to drag up intense arguments whether it's Vs Nasser, Vs Ronnie, HIT vs volume, what his cycle really was, etc. Shows you that although he was The Shadow and kept away from the limelight in terms of photoshoots and glamour: he left an intense mark on bodybuilding compared to the likes of Haney before him. In pure bodybuilding terms: Dorian is only second to Arnold in terms of impact, imo.
Even more so than Ronnie.
It's not really Yates. It's all this hit nonsense which is going through bit of a resurgence at the moment. It attracts a lot of crazies who are brainwashed by the writings of Jones and Mentzer who will defend hit as something sacred. It's not. It's an outdated form of training that was popular in the 70's but quickly died out due to the lack of results.
Yates gets dragged into this as he was supposedly the one who proved Mentzer's ideas work. He wasn't. It was simply all hype. Yates trained no harder than most bodybuilders. He used multiple sets in the first half of his training which built up 90% of his mass.
Then he supposedly switch to hit later on. It wasn't anything but pyramid training. Nothing else. Not to mention the massive concoctions of drugs he was on in the final years of his career. All hype. Nothing more. Some people just simply don't like the truth, that's all.
-
You can't even use the quotes function here properly, you dumb fuck.
"Name the names, stupid."
Ok, Rosie and Jim
"We've been waiting for months now...and you've dodged every attempt to say shit."
I haven't.
"Btw, troll: you say I'm a HIT guy? Ah, assumptions galore from our fly by night moron."
You're definitely a hitter or else why be so upset as you are?
"I can also pretty much guarantee you that, before I got sick, I would likely smoke your ass in development and training poundages."
Sounds like you're still sick. Better keep taking those meds or else you start having delusions as you do.
"But hey, by all means, post those names you continue to withhold."
Dick and Dom.
"Yes..Name the names or piss off, you wanker."
Bill and Ted.
"I'm calling your stupid self out. Name names or properly fuck off, as Illuminati suggested."
Tom and Jerry.
-
It's not really Yates. It's all this hit nonsense which is going through bit of a resurgence at the moment. It attracts a lot of crazies who are brainwashed by the writings of Jones and Mentzer who will defend hit as something sacred. It's not. It's an outdated form of training that was popular in the 70's but quickly died out due to the lack of results.
Yates gets dragged into this as he was supposedly the one who proved Mentzer's ideas work. He wasn't. It was simply all hype. Yates trained no harder than most bodybuilders. He used multiple sets in the first half of his training which built up 90% of his mass.
Then he supposedly switch to hit later on. It wasn't anything but pyramid training. Nothing else. Not to mention the massive concoctions of drugs he was on in the final years of his career. All hype. Nothing more. Some people just simply don't like the truth, that's all.
Dorian is now promoting the one minute workout.
-
That's what I thought.
You have nothing.
That Tom and Jerry bit was funny, though, I'll give ya that :)
-
Dorian is now promoting the one minute workout.
-
Dorian is now promoting the one minute workout.
Yep. I've seen this. More "fitness" gimmicks to sell to the lazy.
-
That's what I thought.
You have nothing.
That Tom and Jerry bit was funny, though, I'll give ya that :)
Nothing but facts. Guranteed.
-
Nothing but facts. Guranteed.
Well, my man, Tom and Jerry (et al) aren't exactly great eyewitnesses, LOL. And as I said, in the evidentiary chain, anecdotal "evidence" is as low as it comes vis-a-vis actually *proving* anything. Even you must admit that, when pressed for said anecdotes, you simply responded with sarcasm.
It was funny :) But funny doesn't a great argument make.
Let me politely ask you again: how do *you* define HIT training?
I think some part of our disconnect stems from different understandings of the terminology. We certainly have disparate takes on what constitutes a "work set."
Don't get me wrong here, mate: I'm genuinely curious to hear what you have to say. We've exchanged some insults, but it's Getbig -- par for the course here :) I've no ill-will toward you in spite of aforesaid trash talk. I am one of the nicest, most receptive dudes I hope you encounter. I abhor conflict, especially over miscommunications.
-
Well, my man, Tom and Jerry (et al) aren't exactly great eyewitnesses, LOL. And as I said, in the evidentiary chain, anecdotal "evidence" is as low as it comes vis-a-vis actually *proving* anything. Even you must admit that, when pressed for said anecdotes, you simply responded with sarcasm.
It was funny :) But funny doesn't a great argument make.
Let me politely ask you again: how do *you* define HIT training?
I think some part of our disconnect stems from different understandings of the terminology. We certainly have disparate takes on what constitutes a "work set."
Don't get me wrong here, mate: I'm genuinely curious to hear what you have to say. We've exchanged some insults, but it's Getbig -- par for the course here :) I've no ill-will toward you in spite of aforesaid trash talk. I am one of the nicest, most receptive dudes I hope you encounter. I abhor conflict, especially over miscommunications.
I haven't even thrown any insults at you.
-
Can the retard rmj not even use the quote function correctly ?
Is appears not ::)
He still hasn't said who his mothers uncles 3rd cousin's dog's pet hippo & Friends are Who Trained at Temple gym
& knew Dorian are.
RetardedMentalJerk is a Liar.
-
Can the retard rmj not even use the quote function correctly ?
Is appears not ::)
He still hasn't said who his mothers uncles 3rd cousin's dog's pet hippo & Friends are Who Trained at Temple gym
& knew Dorian are.
RetardedMentalJerk is a Liar.
I'm a not liar. Just stating facts.
-
Brutal sarcasm I hope, biggest guy in Venice mid 90s using the lightest weights.
Yes, I was joking.
-
I'm a not liar. Just stating facts.
You are a Liar - Several have called you out on Your Lies - You've Not Stated Any Facts - Only Proved you cannot Back up anything you Claim.
-
You are a Liar - Several have called you out on Your Lies - You've Not Stated Any Facts - Only Proved you cannot Back up anything you Claim.
I just love how you Yates fans get so upset when facts dissolve your belief system. What does it matter who told me? You're not going to know anyhow. Yates used multiple sets in his early years to build up. He even admitted it in his twitter account back in 2014.
https://twitter.com/Dorian_Yates/status/541683732340822018?s=20&t=S7rAYWQBMHOFRdZo6plssQ
It's all there if you read the replies.
-
I just love how you Yates fans get so upset when facts dissolve your belief system. What does it matter who told me? You're not going to know anyhow. Yates used multiple sets in his early years to build up. He even admitted it in his twitter account back in 2014.
https://twitter.com/Dorian_Yates/status/541683732340822018?s=20&t=S7rAYWQBMHOFRdZo6plssQ
It's all there if you read the replies.
I couldn't care any less if Dorian did 1set or 1o1sets !!
You're Lies have been exposed & Called out - Your friends Dogs uncles goldfish told you Crap.
-
I couldn't care any less if Dorian did 1set or 1o1sets !!
You're Lies have been exposed & Called out - Your friends Dogs uncles goldfish told you Crap.
How if they're lies when I have a link to Dorian admitting he did traditional volume training to build up? Right from the horses mouth. I think it's time for you to take your pills.
-
How if they're lies when I have a link to Dorian admitting he did traditional volume training to build up? Right from the horses mouth. I think it's time for you to take your pills.
Because you claimed you knew people who trained at his gym
-
Because you claimed you knew people who trained at his gym
That I did and they knew Yates as they saw him train. He did more sets. Even Lee Priest had seen Yates do more sets.
-
That I did and they knew Yates as they saw him train. He did more sets. Even Lee Priest had seen Yates do more sets.
I did as well, maybe we know the same people, who were they?
-
I did as well, maybe we know the same people, who were they?
You tell me? 😉
-
How if they're lies when I have a link to Dorian admitting he did traditional volume training to build up? Right from the horses mouth. I think it's time for you to take your pills.
Are you Completely Retarded you Mentally Defective Liar -
No one is Disputing How many sets Dorian Did - You've been called out for Not naming who you Say Your Friends Knew that trained at Temple Gym - You have Consitently Run away & Avoided that Subject - Trying to Deflect it to How Many Sets Dorian Did
- Really Who Give a Flying Fuck if it Was 1 set or 101 sets
- Time for you to Runaway again until you Think we've Forgotten about your Bullshit - Fuck off .
-
Are you Completely Retarded you Mentally Defective Liar -
No one is Disputing How many sets Dorian Did - You've been called out for Not naming who you Say Your Friends Knew that trained at Temple Gym - You have Consitently Run away & Avoided that Subject - Trying to Deflect it to How Many Sets Dorian Did
- Really Who Give a Flying Fuck if it Was 1 set or 101 sets
- Time for you to Runaway again until you Think we've Forgotten about your Bullshit - Fuck off .
Temper. Temper, little one. I haven't deflected anything. I've provided facts which you don't like. I'm not naming them because you won't even know them so what's the point? And yes, this was about Yates doing more than he claims. Yates has been on the weed for way too long It has distorted his memory.
As I've stated you are so emotionally attached to Yates and hit, as is evident by your tantrums and name calling in your replies, it blinds you to facts. You need help, kid. Best get some.
-
That I did and they knew Yates as they saw him train. He did more sets. Even Lee Priest had seen Yates do more sets.
It’s possible that Lee only saw Dorian during the final week of his contest prep. Dorian was doing lots of sets as he purposefully tried to deplete his glycogen stores.
I doubt that Lee saw Dorian train often because Lee trained in California
-
Temper. Temper, little one. I haven't deflected anything. I've provided facts which you don't like. I'm not naming them because you won't even know them so what's the point? And yes, this was about Yates doing more than he claims. Yates has been on the weed for way too long It has distorted his memory.
As I've stated you are so emotionally attached to Yates and hit, as is evident by your tantrums and name calling in your replies, it blinds you to facts. You need help, kid. Best get some.
un-named sources = fake news
-
Temper. Temper, little one. I haven't deflected anything. I've provided facts which you don't like. I'm not naming them because you won't even know them so what's the point? And yes, this was about Yates doing more than he claims. Yates has been on the weed for way too long It has distorted his memory.
As I've stated you are so emotionally attached to Yates and hit, as is evident by your tantrums and name calling in your replies, it blinds you to facts. You need help, kid. Best get some.
Fuck off with your Stupidity -
-
un-named sources = fake news
Yep - just making up crap as it usually does.
Moron is obsessed about how many sets Dorian did - Really!!! WTF Who remotely cares
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un-named sources = fake news
Nothing is fake in what I say.
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Fuck off with your Stupidity -
Off you go then.
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Yep - just making up crap as it usually does.
Moron is obsessed about how many sets Dorian did - Really!!! WTF Who remotely cares
You obviously do or else you wouldn't reply.
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You obviously do or else you wouldn't reply.
You really are just not too Bright are you
I'm not debating how many sets Dorian did, I just don't care.
I'm Callin You out on your Blatant lies of your friends sisters uncles dead cats pet gold fish
Trained at Templd gym & knew / saw Dorian train - Get that through your Thick Stupid Head.
Oh & One More Time just for You Retard - I don't have the slightest interest if Dorian did
1 set or 101 sets - is only You who it's a Massive issue to.
Now Go Fuck off & Keep Fucking off. 👍🏻
HTH.
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According to HIT Theory one perfect rep one set would be best
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According to HIT Theory one perfect rep one set would be best
have you just read that?
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have you just read that?
I haven’t read a thing on HIT or Dorian or Mentzer in 20 years it was a marketing scam then and it’s a marketing scam now. Newsflash all training works high reps low reps singles everything works other than that bullshit CrossFit Krankenstein does or that tough mudder spartan race nonsense SC is always training for oh yeah and all you fags doing burpees and jumping jacks on aerdayle bikes with sandbags while juggling coconuts that’s nonsense. I mean all weight training single reps to 100 reps 1 set to 50
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I haven’t read a thing on HIT or Dorian or Mentzer in 20 years it was a marketing scam then and it’s a marketing scam now. Newsflash all training works high reps low reps singles everything works other than that bullshit CrossFit Krankenstein does or that tough mudder spartan race nonsense SC is always training for oh yeah and all you fags doing burpees and jumping jacks on aerdayle bikes with sandbags while juggling coconuts that’s nonsense. I mean all weight training single reps to 100 reps 1 set to 50
The 2 you Mention in your Diatribe You wouldn't last 5mins trying to keep up with them,
I do believe they are not specifically training for Larger / stronger muscles.
yet again you show your utter ignorance & stupidity.
In your case It is better to let Folk Think You are an idiot
Than Continually Post and Prove You are an Idiot.
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I haven’t read a thing on HIT or Dorian or Mentzer in 20 years it was a marketing scam then and it’s a marketing scam now. Newsflash all training works high reps low reps singles everything works other than that bullshit CrossFit Krankenstein does or that tough mudder spartan race nonsense SC is always training for oh yeah and all you fags doing burpees and jumping jacks on aerdayle bikes with sandbags while juggling coconuts that’s nonsense. I mean all weight training single reps to 100 reps 1 set to 50
I suppose we had better listen to what you do, after all your results speak for themselves..
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You really are just not too Bright are you
I'm not debating how many sets Dorian did, I just don't care.
I'm Callin You out on your Blatant lies of your friends sisters uncles dead cats pet gold fish
Trained at Templd gym & knew / saw Dorian train - Get that through your Thick Stupid Head.
Oh & One More Time just for You Retard - I don't have the slightest interest if Dorian did
1 set or 101 sets - is only You who it's a Massive issue to.
Now Go Fuck off & Keep Fucking off. 👍🏻
HTH.
Such anger. You should definitely see someone about that. Cursing and swearing like that. Nobody likes an angry person. And yes, this was all about how many sets Dorian did. I've backed up my claims and you don't like it. That's not my fault. That's yours.
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Yep - just making up crap as it usually does.
Moron is obsessed about how many sets Dorian did - Really!!! WTF Who remotely cares
How is giving evidence straight from the horses mouth fake news?
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The 2 you Mention in your Diatribe You wouldn't last 5mins trying to keep up with them,
I do believe they are not specifically training for Larger / stronger muscles.
yet again you show your utter ignorance & stupidity.
In your case It is better to let Folk Think You are an idiot
Than Continually Post and Prove You are an Idiot.
I thought hit guys were suppose to be mentally strong as Mentzer liked to preach in his drug fueled rantings..I mean writings?
Guess not. Your replies come across as someone with very insecure emotions and throwing tantrums at anyone dissing the hit cult. It's like talking to a flat earther.
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hete's mike the Big Jew isreatel weighin in on da scene
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According to HIT Theory one perfect rep one set would be best
Would make for a quick workout.
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I thought hit guys were suppose to be mentally strong as Mentzer liked to preach in his drug fueled rantings..I mean writings?
Guess not. Your replies come across as someone with very insecure emotions and throwing tantrums at anyone dissing the hit cult. It's like talking to a flat earther.
Unbelievable how Thick / Stupid you are.
The only cult is you & your obsession over how many sets Dorian did & HIT system.
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Unbelievable how Thick / Stupid you are.
The only cult is you & your obsession over how many sets Dorian did & HIT system.
Not me. You're the one ranting and raving like an angry teenager.
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bet it smelled sweet in the Dungeon :-X
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how do you get bigger, get weaker? Mike Mentzer
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bet it smelled sweet in the Dungeon :-X
Is that shit hole still open
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Is that shit hole still open
That Shit hole as you call it was where Dorian Built his Olympia winning physique
Had you ever Trained there ?
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Not me. You're the one ranting and raving like an angry teenager.
Oh no Not You - says the sycophant
Who Stated He knew his uncles cousins 5th wife who's pet crab had a goat that knew
Dorians next door neighbours frog that had trained at temple gym & told you Exactly how many sets & reps Dorian did - Like anyone actually cares,
And when you were asked Who it was You disappeared as unable to answer such a
Simple question.
Think on, Liar.
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That Shit hole as you call it was where Dorian Built his Olympia winning physique
Had you ever Trained there ?
I liked it in there, personally. Great, varied clientele from suit-types during lunch hours to outright serious lifters. My biggest gripe was with the parking in that alley. I think eventually the council installed some barrier things due to the terrorism so no cars could drive down there but that was long after I stopped going. That video doesn't do the place/layout justice, imo.
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That Shit hole as you call it was where Dorian Built his Olympia winning physique
Had you ever Trained there ?
Chill out I was joking Yates is one of my favorites no never trained there
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Chill out I was joking Yates is one of my favorites no never trained there
I merely asked you a question
I've zero need to "chill out"
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I liked it in there, personally. Great, varied clientele from suit-types during lunch hours to outright serious lifters. My biggest gripe was with the parking in that alley. I think eventually the council installed some barrier things due to the terrorism so no cars could drive down there but that was long after I stopped going. That video doesn't do the place/layout justice, imo.
it was a very basic spit & sawdust hardcore place when 1st opened Plenty of home
made equipment.
We may well have been in at the same time - small world.
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it was a very basic spit & sawdust hardcore place when 1st opened Plenty of home made
equipment.
We may well have been in at the same time - small world.
was there shit roll in the bogs?
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That Shit hole as you call it was where Dorian Built his Olympia winning physique
Had you ever Trained there ?
It was never a dungeon but a shit hole of a gym. Nothing was ever fixed. If a cardio machine broke it took ages for them to fix them. Too much damp. Holes in the walls. Too cramped. Not enough equipment. Broken equipment. It was crap.
Drugs built his physique, little one.
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Oh no Not You - says the sycophant
Who Stated He knew his uncles cousins 5th wife who's pet crab had a goat that knew
Dorians next door neighbours frog that had trained at temple gym & told you Exactly how many sets & reps Dorian did - Like anyone actually cares,
And when you were asked Who it was You disappeared as unable to answer such a
Simple question.
Think on, Liar.
I've provided the evidence which you have clearly ignored. So I am not a liar. Think on it, kid.
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does rmj stand for rim job?
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:)
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does rmj stand for rim job?
You should know as you've had plenty of rim jobs in your time.
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:)
Ah, another John Little article filled with hit codswallop. Hit hasn't done Little any favors as he is still little.
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I've provided the evidence which you have clearly ignored. So I am not a liar. Think on it, kid.
Are you related to Bianca Bhanks as you're as delusional & full of lies as he is
All you've posted is 3rd hand info / accounts
Think on Liar
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It was never a dungeon but a shit hole of a gym. Nothing was ever fixed. If a cardio machine broke it took ages for them to fix them. Too much damp. Holes in the walls. Too cramped. Not enough equipment. Broken equipment. It was crap.
Drugs built his physique, little one.
Ahh Rimjob are you melting down - go find your quiet room - You've Never Ever
set foot in That Gym.
Yes of Course all Drugs - all Drugs none of his competitors were taking. - IDIOT.
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Are you related to Bianca Bhanks as you're as delusional & full of lies as he is
All you've posted is 3rd hand info / accounts
Think on Liar
Facts aren't lies I'm afraid.
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Ahh Rimjob are you melting down - go find your quiet room - You've Never Ever
set foot in That Gym.
Yes of Course all Drugs - all Drugs none of his competitors were taking. - IDIOT.
It's not me who is having a meltdown, I'm just stating facts. The one who is clearly having a meltdown is you.
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The secret to muscle mass is canola oil.
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It's not me who is having a meltdown, I'm just stating facts. The one who is clearly having a meltdown is you.
You haven't stated a single verifiable by your own eyes Fact.
Carrying on lying & Trying so hard to deflect.
In Fact - Once & For All State your eye witness Facts .................
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The secret to muscle mass is canola oil.
I thought it was olive oil. That must be why my gains have stalled.
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You haven't stated a single verifiable by your own eyes Fact.
Carrying on lying & Trying so hard to deflect.
In Fact - Once & For All State your eye witness Facts .................
So you're saying Yates is a liar?
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I thought it was olive oil. That must be why my gains have stalled.
There is a subtle difference in the anabolic effect.
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So you're saying Yates is a liar?
Are You retarded & lack any semblance of reading comprehension ?
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i remember a interview dorian did years ago after he retired he said if he had to do it over agian he would have backed off the intensity during his pre contest prep, i believe all his injuries happened going into the olympia.
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i remember a interview dorian did years ago after he retired he said if he had to do it over agian he would have backed off the intensity during his pre contest prep, i believe all his injuries happened going into the olympia.
yes he's often stated that.
as he was self driven & isolated from the other top olympia contenders
He did what he thought necessary - in hindsight it was that bit to much.
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yes he's often stated that.
as he was self driven & isolated from the other top olympia contenders
He did what he thought necessary - in hindsight it was that bit to much.
heres a question for you illuminati , say his 93 form had he just kept on refining that version and not getting bigger. i think he could have competed a bit longer that version of dorian would be very hard for anyone to beat
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Are You retarded & lack any semblance of reading comprehension ?
Answer the question, kid.
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i remember a interview dorian did years ago after he retired he said if he had to do it over agian he would have backed off the intensity during his pre contest prep, i believe all his injuries happened going into the olympia.
Not true. He had injuries in the offseason too. Rotator cuff injury, torn quad, torn forearms. Yates way of training was retarded because he relied on the drugs too much.
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heres a question for you illuminati , say his 93 form had he just kept on refining that version and not getting bigger. i think he could have competed a bit longer that version of dorian would be very hard for anyone to beat
Yes quite possibly + the fact Dorian deliberately over dieted - had he not & come in say 10lbs heavier !!
All ifs & buts - 93 is certainly up there with the best ever Olympia Physiques .
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You should know as you've had plenty of rim jobs in your time.
Nothing wrong with that. I've had many rimjobs. Chicks love nice asses nearly as much as we do.
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Nothing wrong with that. I've had many rimjobs. Chicks love nice asses nearly as much as we do.
Manchick's maybe.
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Here's Yates again training someone with his (s)hit system. This time doing a lot less than what he did in his career. 3 exercises for the chest and only 2 for the shoulders. Seems like Yates can't be arsed in training people so he gets them to do only a few exercises now.
i=tZfFqkQoy4DIbL2g
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Here's Yates again training someone with his (s)hit system. This time doing a lot less than what he did in his career. 3 exercises for the chest and only 2 for the shoulders. Seems like Yates can't be arsed in training people so he gets them to do only a few exercises now.
i=tZfFqkQoy4DIbL2g
Like you need someone to teach you how to workout like that. ::) People actually paid Mentzer for his personal training when they could have just read any article he ever wrote for free.
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Like you need someone to teach you how to workout like that. ::) People actually paid Mentzer for his personal training when they could have just read any article he ever wrote for free.
(S)HIT guys are not the smartest.
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Like you need someone to teach you how to workout like that. ::) People actually paid Mentzer for his personal training when they could have just read any article he ever wrote for free.
you´re honestly a fucking tool bro
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Like you need someone to teach you how to workout like that. ::) People actually paid Mentzer for his personal training when they could have just read any article he ever wrote for free.
Negatives can cause nerve damage
They have no place in any training routine
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I don't know how anyone can do the traditional HIT - meaning the forced reps, holds, negatives- as a regular thing over a long period of time. You get burnt out and need lots of breaks periodically. You also get sick of maxing out.
I'm really old school- a few sets of each exercise to positive failure, or even stopping a rep or two short. I want to fatigue my muscles - not destroy them.
I've been training this way for years and feel very happy with my current condition because of it.
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I don't know how anyone can do the traditional HIT - meaning the forced reps, holds, negatives- as a regular thing over a long period of time. You get burnt out and need lots of breaks periodically. You also get sick of maxing out.
I'm really old school- a few sets of each exercise to positive failure, or even stopping a rep or two short. I want to fatigue my muscles - not destroy them.
I've been training this way for years and feel very happy with my current condition because of it.
Exactly. Old school is the best school.
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I like training one set to positive failure after warm if needed. True it does lead to burn out. How often can you bang your head against a wall trying to get that last almost impossible rep? Having said that if you have an involved job that has travel time to get to and a family, how can you train two hours a day with volume?
I split my body four ways like Yates. The workouts takes around 45 minutes and legs take me 60 minutes. I worked revolving crazy shifts for so long but now being retired I work two days a week. What I do on work days; wake up before work and get the workout in. On Monday I worked chest and biceps. Took 45 minutes then did some cardio on a treadmill. Having some health issues so the cardio consisted of mainly incline walking. If you want the best bang for your time it's clearly has value. I have nothing bad to say about volume except it does have a time commitment.
Yates, Dave Mastorakis and Mr. Canada Cardillo all trained with one set to failure. Mentzer trained two sets to failure. Dave was one of first bodybuilders I heard of training with one set to failure. Cardillo first trained with two sets to failure but then went to one set. He liked to do one set of high reps after a warm up.
On a side note Cardillo was the first bodybuilder I heard of that used a day of fasting one day a week. He was really cut up when he competed.
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you´re honestly a fucking tool bro
Go masturbate to some (s)HIT videos.
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Go masturbate to some (s)HIT videos.
masturbation would build you more muscle than that volume stuff you´re doing bro :D
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I like training one set to positive failure after warm if needed. True it does lead to burn out. How often can you bang your head against a wall trying to get that last almost impossible rep? Having said that if you have an involved job that has travel time to get to and a family, how can you train two hours a day with volume?
I split my body four ways like Yates. The workouts takes around 45 minutes and legs take me 60 minutes. I worked revolving crazy shifts for so long but now being retired I work two days a week. What I do on work days; wake up before work and get the workout in. On Monday I worked chest and biceps. Took 45 minutes then did some cardio on a treadmill. Having some health issues so the cardio consisted of mainly incline walking. If you want the best bang for your time it's clearly has value. I have nothing bad to say about volume except it does have a time commitment.
Yates, Dave Mastorakis and Mr. Canada Cardillo all trained with one set to failure. Mentzer trained two sets to failure. Dave was one of first bodybuilders I heard of training with one set to failure. Cardillo first trained with two sets to failure but then went to one set. He liked to do one set of high reps after a warm up.
On a side note Cardillo was the first bodybuilder I heard of that used a day of fasting one day a week. He was really cut up when he competed.
Yates, methzer, Cardillo and Masterokis built their bodies with volume first. None did hit from day 1 exclusively. Show me a top bodybuilder who has used hit from day 1 and nothing else to build their bodies. I can wait.,..
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Yates, methzer, Cardillo and Masterokis built their bodies with volume first. None did hit from day 1 exclusively. Show me a top bodybuilder who has used hit from day 1 and nothing else to build their bodies. I can wait.,..
You're telling me they just maintained what they built with volume? All mentioned gained from switching from volume to high intensity low volume. All of them you mentioned. Yates never did high volume. He used 3 sets per exercise then went to 2 then 1. Mentzer made his best gains when he lowered the sets. Cardillo was always a low set guy as well as Dave. Not saying they never had cycles where they played with volume. Having said this volume certainly has more champs than low intensity guys.
Danny Padilla said he tried heavy weights and training to failure with low sets. He says flat out he made better gains with volume.
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"You're telling me they just maintained what they built with volume?"
Exactly. High volume to build up. Lower volume to maintain. This is standard knowledge in bodybuilding circles.
"All mentioned gained from switching from volume to high intensity low volume. All of them you mentioned."
Yep. All.
"Yates never did high volume."
Certainly did. Let's look at his night of the champions chest routine.
Decline press 5 sets pyramiding the weight up
Incline press 4 sets pyramiding the weight up
Flys 2 sets (after each 2 main sets he did 2 drop sets totalling up to 6 sets
Cable crossovers same as flys
Add that together that's 21 sets. Not low volume at all.
"He used 3 sets per exercise then went to 2 then 1."
Not according to his actual traning journals.
"Mentzer made his best gains when he lowered the sets."
methzer was already built by 19 years old. Hit didn't add anything. More likely he did more dosages of roids to just to get a bit bigger. Same with Yates.
Cardillo was always a low set guy as well as Dave.
Nope. Both did high volume in their early years to build up.
"Not saying they never had cycles where they played with volume. Having said this volume certainly has more champs than low intensity guys."
All champs have done volume.
"Danny Padilla said he tried heavy weights and training to failure with low sets. He says flat out he made better gains with volume."
And they we have it. Volume, along with load and tension, is the prime driver of growth.
-
"You're telling me they just maintained what they built with volume?"
Exactly. High volume to build up. Lower volume to maintain. This is standard knowledge in bodybuilding circles.
"All mentioned gained from switching from volume to high intensity low volume. All of them you mentioned."
Yep. All.
"Yates never did high volume."
Certainly did. Let's look at his night of the champions chest routine.
Decline press 5 sets pyramiding the weight up
Incline press 4 sets pyramiding the weight up
Flys 2 sets (after each 2 main sets he did 2 drop sets totalling up to 6 sets
Cable crossovers same as flys
Add that together that's 21 sets. Not low volume at all.
"He used 3 sets per exercise then went to 2 then 1."
Not according to his actual traning journals.
"Mentzer made his best gains when he lowered the sets."
methzer was already built by 19 years old. Hit didn't add anything. More likely he did more dosages of roids to just to get a bit bigger. Same with Yates.
Cardillo was always a low set guy as well as Dave.
Nope. Both did high volume in their early years to build up.
"Not saying they never had cycles where they played with volume. Having said this volume certainly has more champs than low intensity guys."
All champs have done volume.
"Danny Padilla said he tried heavy weights and training to failure with low sets. He says flat out he made better gains with volume."
And they we have it. Volume, along with load and tension, is the prime driver of growth.
I stand by what I wrote. Yates gained muscle weight in the extreme when he made the switch to one set a body part. Right around the night of the champions he was doing 2 sets per exercise. Don't count his warm up sets. Mentzer improved after he left volume. He won his first major contest doing a low set routine the Mr. America. Regarding Dave M using volume realize he competed as a 15 year old. The majority of his training career was with HIT.
If you want to make a case for volume use Casey Viator the poster boy for HIT. In his best ever condition in the 1982 Olympia he was doing volume. A facebook friend of mine that died said he saw him train for that contest and it was always volume. One bodypart he decided to count sets and if my memory serves me he counted 16 sets.
-
There is a subtle difference in the anabolic effect.
Olive oil is anabolic
Canola oil is androgenic
:-))
-
I stand by what I wrote. Yates gained muscle weight in the extreme when he made the switch to one set a body part. Right around the night of the champions he was doing 2 sets per exercise. Don't count his warm up sets. Mentzer improved after he left volume. He won his first major contest doing a low set routine the Mr. America. Regarding Dave M using volume realize he competed as a 15 year old. The majority of his training career was with HIT.
If you want to make a case for volume use Casey Viator the poster boy for HIT. In his best ever condition in the 1982 Olympia he was doing volume. A facebook friend of mine that died said he saw him train for that contest and it was always volume. One bodypart he decided to count sets and if my memory serves me he counted 16 sets.
I'm going to a competition in 2 wks
where I hope there will be a training partner of Dorian's from back in
the late 80's & early 90's he trained with Dorian for the night of the champions
, he was on the same sponsorship team as Dorian & 3 others.
Hell maybe even Ernie Taylor might be there & I'll ask them both exactly how they saw Dorian train.
He worked for me in back then & I clearly remember him saying they had
regular blood tests & Dorian's all ways came back better than everyone else's
Including the 2 women on the Team, no it's not proof of how much or how little PED's he was using only it's a fair indicator.
Personally I don't care how Dorian trained as it has Zero effect on Me.
Whatever he was doing certainly worked very well for him,
& that should be the goal for all of us - Doing what produces the best results
for ourselves not bitching over how someone else did or did not train. ::)
waste of Fucking time & energy that is.
Concentrate on yourself & when you get to Dorian's level then Tell
everyone what training methods got you there.
-
Olive oil is anabolic
Canola oil is androgenic
:-))
That is why you use both. You'll get massive!
-
I'm going to a competition in 2 wks
where I hope there will be a training partner of Dorian's from back in
the late 80's & early 90's he trained with Dorian for the night of the champions
, he was on the same sponsorship team as Dorian & 3 others.
Hell maybe even Ernie Taylor might be there & I'll ask them both exactly how they saw Dorian train.
He worked for me in back then & I clearly remember him saying they had
regular blood tests & Dorian's all ways came back better than everyone else's
Including the 2 women on the Team, no it's not proof of how much or how little PED's he was using only it's a fair indicator.
Personally I don't care how Dorian trained as it has Zero effect on Me.
Whatever he was doing certainly worked very well for him,
& that should be the goal for all of us - Doing what produces the best results
for ourselves not bitching over how someone else did or did not train. ::)
waste of Fucking time & energy that is.
Concentrate on yourself & when you get to Dorian's level then Tell
everyone what training methods got you there.
That'll be interesting, if you can put this matter to rest, once and for all from his contemporaries. I'm with you on the whole issue. I do what's best for me. I'll never be a pro so other peoples stacks/cycles/routines and 'secrets' don't bother me. We're on this planet for decades. Decades of training - you've got plenty of time to suss out what works for you, what doesn't, so why not try all sorts of shit and mix it all together, if that's what works.
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When you watch Blood & Guts, that doesnt seem like Mentzer HIT....
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When you watch Blood & Guts, that doesnt seem like Mentzer HIT....
menzter's hit from when he competed was 4 days a week on a 2 way split
day 1: chest, tri, leg
day 2: back bi, delt
3-7 work sets per bodypart
fyi, cybergenics from the early 90's was based on his model from that time but even more intense, HOLY SHIT!!!!
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That is why you use both. You'll get massive!
you use man juice bro
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That'll be interesting, if you can put this matter to rest, once and for all from his contemporaries. I'm with you on the whole issue. I do what's best for me. I'll never be a pro so other peoples stacks/cycles/routines and 'secrets' don't bother me. We're on this planet for decades. Decades of training - you've got plenty of time to suss out what works for you, what doesn't, so why not try all sorts of shit and mix it all together, if that's what works.
I hope one or other is there , preferably both.
I just don't get why one or 2 here are so twisted over how Dorian or Mike
trained ::) What fucking difference to them does it make.
exactly , they'd be better off concentrating on themselves - as I'm fairly
certain they dont look anything remotely like either dorian or Mike.
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menzter's hit from when he competed was 4 days a week on a 2 way split
day 1: chest, tri, leg
day 2: back bi, delt
3-7 work sets per bodypart
fyi, cybergenics from the early 90's was based on his model from that time but even more intense, HOLY SHIT!!!!
Not HIT IMO, normal volume training...
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I stand by what I wrote. Yates gained muscle weight in the extreme when he made the switch to one set a body part. Right around the night of the champions he was doing 2 sets per exercise. Don't count his warm up sets. Mentzer improved after he left volume. He won his first major contest doing a low set routine the Mr. America. Regarding Dave M using volume realize he competed as a 15 year old. The majority of his training career was with HIT.
If you want to make a case for volume use Casey Viator the poster boy for HIT. In his best ever condition in the 1982 Olympia he was doing volume. A facebook friend of mine that died said he saw him train for that contest and it was always volume. One bodypart he decided to count sets and if my memory serves me he counted 16 sets.
Can get it from the man himself. From his twitter feed from back in 20q4
"
AdamB
@Adambloor1984
7 Dec 2014
@Dorian_Yates
had you incorporated your HIT style of training at that stage? Or did you use the more traditional volume style?
Dorian Yates
@Dorian_Yates
7 Dec 2014
@Adambloor1984
traditional"
So there you have it.
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Not HIT IMO, normal volume training...
volume and hit together especially the cybergenics routine
if you did this right you would lose muscle rapidly, drop sets to positive and negative failure multiple times :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Ukjeff did HIT with Dorian twice. Jeff hit him in the jaw and Dorian hit the ground.
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Ukjeff did HIT with Dorian twice. Jeff hit him in the jaw and Dorian hit the ground.
heard jeff was top dog in the gang yates was a part of
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heard jeff was top dog in the gang yates was a part of
Loved Ed Norton’s portrayal of Jeff in American History X
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When you watch Blood & Guts, that doesnt seem like Mentzer HIT....
Because it isn't. It's conventional pyramid training. Nothing more,
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Does anyone really think that a pro bodybuilders physique is determined by their training program? They’d look the same if they all swapped routines
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Does anyone really think that a pro bodybuilders physique is determined by their training program? They’d look the same if they all swapped routines
according to big doc mike isrealtel (a cool and decent jew btw) yates would have been even better if he followed his protocols
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according to big doc mike isrealtel (a cool and decent jew btw) yates would have been even better if he followed his protocols
Less to no injuries too.
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according to big doc mike isrealtel (a cool and decent jew btw) yates would have been even better if he followed his protocols
Ok, I could agree with that because maybe Yates wouldn’t have torn so many muscles
Seriously though, any reasonable program is gonna work for a pro because they have good genetics and they’re running a lot of gear. I think what distinguished Yates was his consistency and discipline in all of the facets of show prep—not the particular details of his training philosophy. He likely would have looked the same under “big doc Mike isrealtel” as he did doing his own thing. My opinion anyways
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Ok, I could agree with that because maybe Yates wouldn’t have torn so many muscles
Seriously though, any reasonable program is gonna work for a pro because they have good genetics and they’re running a lot of gear. I think what distinguished Yates was his consistency and discipline in all of the facets of show prep—not the particular details of his training philosophy. He likely would have looked the same under “big doc Mike isrealtel” as he did doing his own thing. My opinion anyways
i just can't train to reps in reserve as it makes me feel like a fucking pussy to do so :D :D :D :D :D
i train past failure on the regular ie. drop sets, partials, cheat reps, etc
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i just can't train to reps in reserve as it makes me feel like a fucking pussy to do so :D :D :D :D :D
i train past failure on the regular ie. drop sets, partials, cheat reps, etc
And plateau quicker.
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Like you need someone to teach you how to workout like that. ::) People actually paid Mentzer for his personal training when they could have just read any article he ever wrote for free.
Exactly. Yates fans truly are dumb. Here's one of Yates seminars (borefests) on training. He's shows a group of fan boy meatheads on how to do exercises like a barbell curl or a bent over row when you can easily read this stuff in books already. The Yates fans go to these seminars in hope of finding out the "secret" but instead they find out that all Yates did was pyramiding up the weight. Truly laughable.
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Even Lee Priest states that Yates did more volume when he trained with him
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i just can't train to reps in reserve as it makes me feel like a fucking pussy to do so :D :D :D :D :D
i train past failure on the regular ie. drop sets, partials, cheat reps, etc
I've found I get better results when I don't train at 100%.
And am able to have more energy and train more consistently.
For me the consistency part has been the most important.
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I've found I get better results when I don't train at 100%.
And am able to have more energy and train more consistently.
For me the consistency part has been the most important.
Same here. Going all out quickly leads to plateaus, burnout and even regression. Training to near failure is so much better. Going to failure is just a tool to be used when one has hit a plateau to jolt the muscles back from stagnation. Going to failure, and beyond, most of the time will lead to plateaus very quickly and then what? You're stuck. It's why hit has a very poor success rate in the 5 decades it's been around.
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Exactly. Yates fans truly are dumb. Here's one of Yates seminars (borefests) on training. He's shows a group of fan boy meatheads on how to do exercises like a barbell curl or a bent over row when you can easily read this stuff in books already. The Yates fans go to these seminars in hope of finding out the "secret" but instead they find out that all Yates did was pyramiding up the weight. Truly laughable.
i=BLZ2-7RWg6sD6iUa
(s)HIT training is a religion. Yates is the prophet while Jones is God the Father and his son is Mentzer.
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(s)HIT training is a religion. Yates is the prophet while Jones is God the Father and his son is Mentzer.
Yep. And that's what is always has been. If hit really worked, and it doesn't, we'd all be doing it and the hit guys would be the biggest and strongest guys walking the planet. But reality is very different, something all religious zealots have trouble with.
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Blood and Guts (lol) the video. Just pyramid training and nothing more. No rest pauses, no long static holds, no drop sets, no real forced reps. Just traditional training thinly disguised as something radical by Yates. He trained no harder than the guys in Pumping Iron. In fact, Arnold could've done Yates way of training without breaking a sweat yet Dorian in no way could have handled doing anything more than a pussy one set. 😂😂😂
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Blood and Guts (lol) the video. Just pyramid training and nothing more. No rest pauses, no long static holds, no drop sets, no real forced reps. Just traditional training thinly disguised as something radical by Yates. He trained no harder than the guys in Pumping Iron. In fact, Arnold could've done Yates way of training without breaking a sweat yet dorian in no way could have handled doing anything more than a pussy one set.
i=3lgEikuljkd1fABK
probably claims to have a 32 inch waist, more like 45+ inches
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It is way different. It's the mind set like local hero said. One life or death set, giving it everything. You can't maintain that kind of mental or physical intensity for many sets. Most people do not train like that.
Reminds me of what that fool Poliquin said wrt "HIT"
One "life or death set" lol. Come on now, get real. His "death" set,😂😂😂😂, was no harder than most serious trainers set. All this hype behind Yates's dog shit way of training yet when actually scrutinised it's just regular hard training.
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One "life or death set" lol. Come on now, get real. His "death" set,😂😂😂😂, was no harder than most serious trainers set. All this hype behind Yates's dog shit way of training yet when actually scrutinised it's just regular hard training.
Your hate for HIT and your spin on his training speaks volumes of your bias. You must train in a really relaxed casual manner and you have to justify it by putting hard trainers down. I don't know how you can't comprehend non taxing warm ups and one set to failure. No one can do a single set to failure in most exercises without warming up the muscle.
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Your hate for HIT and your spin on his training speaks volumes of your bias. You must train in a really relaxed casual manner and you have to justify it by putting hard trainers down. I don't know how you can't comprehend non taxing warm ups and one set to failure. No one can do a single set to failure in most exercises without warming up the muscle.
Hit doesn't work. In 5 decades it still has a very poor success rate. Volume, with reasonable intensity, is much better. Its better for size. It's definitely better for recovery as I'm not going all out which stresses out the cns which causes burn out. The old naturals before Arnold 's era called it "training on the nerve" and knew that training like that causes burn out, fast plateaus and even injury. Beating down one's cns can make a person much more prone to colds and flues.
Going all out, especially drug free is too stressful on the body. It releases catabolic hormones into the body's system which isn't good if drug free. If enhanced then no worries, the steroids can counter act the negative effects from high stressful training but only for a short time.
Even guys like Yates and methzer didn't do this type of training for long. They only did it in spurts. Most of the time they did higher volume training. You hit guys certainly do get triggered when the facts come up about hit. I thought you guys were supposed to be "mentally strong" as methzer had preached? Not my fault you've wasted you're precious time with a faddy, inferior training method. Oh well...
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probably claims to have a 32 inch waist, more like 45+ inches
Yep. All that GH he did.
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Dorian doing HIT..er, I mean, pyramid sets on the Incline press. So much hype on his "intensity" when in reality he trained no harder than Arnold and Co.
i=R0xnTlV9JaxpvThL
Now compare the intensity of Arnold and Lou. Lou doing Incline press @1.27. (just like yates) went to failure with some assisted reps. No different. Yates is just so full of it.
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Preacher curls performed by a young Dorian Yates in a regular style. Hardly blood and guts lol.
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Dorian 6x Mr Olympia
How ever he trained it worked very well for him.
;D
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Dorian doing HIT..er, I mean, pyramid sets on the Incline press. So much hype on his "intensity" when in reality he trained no harder than Arnold and Co.
i=R0xnTlV9JaxpvThL
Now compare the intensity of Arnold and Lou. Lou doing Incline press @1.27. (just like yates) went to failure with some assisted reps. No different. Yates is just so full of it.
i=XcIX2Eei123mhw4Q
Preacher curls performed by a young Dorian Yates in a regular style. Hardly blood and guts lol.
i=2HOWFw2d8bG5snMQ
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Dorian 6x Mr Olympia
However he trained, which was volume, it worked very well for him. As it does for all champions.
😁
🤭
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I always had a problem with the way fans of HIT preached like it's a religion and putting down volume trainers. Now comes along Rmj11 who sounds like a HIT guy but argues for volume.
There is no standardized method of HIT. No, using forced reps doesn't make it HIT or not. The best way to look at this is to do non taxing warm up sets if necessary and then one or two work sets to positive failure or very close to. That is high intensity training. It should be a tool for every trainers. If intensity was the magic bullet and it isn't 100% then we would all be doing sets of one rep because on the intensity scale that as intense as you can make training.
I would advise every volume trainer to do a cycle of low sets to failure and for every hit guy to do a cycle of volume. Heavy and muscular endurance training as in volume should both be used. Having said that the majority of champs have been volume trainers. If anyone enjoys doing a non taxing warm up set or two then banging out that one set to failure I would applaud you. It certainly give the most bang for the buck. If you have a job, commute and family can you really do a 2 hours work out four to five times a week? Training like Yates you can go hard for 45 minutes and be done. It's very taxing way to train using failure as the goal.
I'm switching to volume for awhile. Burnt out from low sets to failure. Going the muscular endurance volume route for awhile.
I digress a little but when people say Sergio Oliva was a HIT trainer I have to laugh. He trained with volume and plenty of it prior to going down to Florida to be trained by Jones for a couple of weeks. He then lost to Bill Pearl then returned home. In under 12 months returning to volume he was in his best shape ever. Light years better than that second place showing to the great Bill Pearl.
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I always had a problem with the way fans of (s)HIT preached like it's a religion and putting down volume trainers. Now comes along Rmj11 who argues for volume since it works and has been proven to be superior to (s)HIT.
There is a standard method of (s)HIT. No, using forced reps doesn't make it (s)HIT or since forced reps were around way before (s)HIT was conjured up by con men in order to make money by appealing to the lazy. The best way to look at this is to do taxing warm up sets if necessary and then one or two work sets to positive failure or very close to. That is conventional pyramid training. It shouldn't be a tool for every trainers since pyramid sets aren't that great for maximum mass. If intensity was the magic bullet and it isn't then we would all be doing sets of one rep because on the intensity scale that as intense as you can make training. That's why volume with reasonable intensity is superior.
I would advise every volume trainer not to do a cycle of low sets to failure and for every (s)HIT guy to do volume. Moderate heavy and muscular endurance training as in volume should both be used. The majority of champs have been volume trainers including Yates and old meth head. If anyone enjoys doing a taxing warm up set or two then banging out that one set to failure I would appeal you to use volume. (s)HIT certainly doesn’t give the most bang for the buck. It is why it has such a dismal success rate even after 5 decades. If you have a job, commute and family can you really do a 1 hour work out four to five times a week? Yes, you can. Many have done. Don't let laziness get to you. Training like Yates you can go hard for 45 minutes and be done will not result in a decent body unless you're taking the drugs Yates was on which was a lot. It's very taxing way to train using failure as the goal and will result in burn out, high risk of injury and cns fatigue. No good for most people especially those trainjng drug free.
I'm switching to volume for awhile. Burnt out from low sets to failure. Going the muscular endurance volume route for awhile. I have eventually learnt the error of my ways for being so dogmatic with (s)HIT.
I digress a little but when people say Sergio Oliva was a (s)HIT trainer I have to laugh. He trained with volume and plenty of it prior to going down to Florida to be trained by Jones for a couple of weeks. He then lost to Bill Pearl then returned home. In under 12 months returning to volume he was in his best shape ever. Light years better than that second place showing to the great Bill Pearl. Volume works.
Fixed. 💪
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I always had a problem with the way fans of HIT preached like it's a religion and putting down volume trainers. Now comes along Rmj11 who sounds like a HIT guy but argues for volume.
There is no standardized method of HIT. No, using forced reps doesn't make it HIT or not. The best way to look at this is to do non taxing warm up sets if necessary and then one or two work sets to positive failure or very close to. That is high intensity training. It should be a tool for every trainers. If intensity was the magic bullet and it isn't 100% then we would all be doing sets of one rep because on the intensity scale that as intense as you can make training.
I would advise every volume trainer to do a cycle of low sets to failure and for every hit guy to do a cycle of volume. Heavy and muscular endurance training as in volume should both be used. Having said that the majority of champs have been volume trainers. If anyone enjoys doing a non taxing warm up set or two then banging out that one set to failure I would applaud you. It certainly give the most bang for the buck. If you have a job, commute and family can you really do a 2 hours work out four to five times a week? Training like Yates you can go hard for 45 minutes and be done. It's very taxing way to train using failure as the goal.
I'm switching to volume for awhile. Burnt out from low sets to failure. Going the muscular endurance volume route for awhile.
I digress a little but when people say Sergio Oliva was a HIT trainer I have to laugh. He trained with volume and plenty of it prior to going down to Florida to be trained by Jones for a couple of weeks. He then lost to Bill Pearl then returned home. In under 12 months returning to volume he was in his best shape ever. Light years better than that second place showing to the great Bill Pearl.
Alternating training styles keeps the mind and body fresh.
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Everything works and nothing works.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdW91bHIxdjIzZDhtNDJ6cGt5bTk5MWhjY3NxcXk1cTJiZHdieW9sMiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/KEXq9JVp3OyZmxZw0W/giphy.gif)
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Alternating training styles keeps the mind and body fresh.
Except (s)HIT. It's not even good for a crappy deload.
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Everything, apart from (s)HIT, works and nothing works.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdW91bHIxdjIzZDhtNDJ6cGt5bTk5MWhjY3NxcXk1cTJiZHdieW9sMiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/KEXq9JVp3OyZmxZw0W/giphy.gif)
😁
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Yates never did this many "forced reps." It's all for views...a show...nothing more.
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Yates never did this many "forced reps." It's all for views...a show...nothing more.
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I totally agree. Yates, Viator and meth head were frauds.
💪
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Old-timer doing hit...supposedly
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On IG you have his formed training partner Paul B describing training with Dorian. Hilarious to say the least. "The energy from Dorian"... The most intense sets ever...
You are absolutely correct that it is a load of bullocks. Just look at the incline pressing. His last was assisted reps and compare that to the incline pressing of Kevin Levrone, which was far more intense and done after heavy flat benching.
Dorian doing HIT..er, I mean, pyramid sets on the Incline press. So much hype on his "intensity" when in reality he trained no harder than Arnold and Co.
i=R0xnTlV9JaxpvThL
Now compare the intensity of Arnold and Lou. Lou doing Incline press @1.27. (just like yates) went to failure with some assisted reps. No different. Yates is just so full of it.
i=XcIX2Eei123mhw4Q
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On IG you have his formed training partner Paul B describing training with Dorian. Hilarious to say the least. "The energy from Dorian"... The most intense sets ever...
You are absolutely correct that it is a load of bullocks. Just look at the incline pressing. His last was assisted reps and compare that to the incline pressing of Kevin Levrone, which was far more intense and done after heavy flat benching.
Yeah, I've seen those cringey posts from Paul Baxandale on IG. He has such a hard on for Yates, Paul grossly exaggerates how "intense" he and Yates trained. All written for entertainment purposes like they used to do in the old muscle magazines. In reality Yates trained no harder than most pro's. As its been mentioned in earlier post Dorian trains his "client" harder than he himself trained on YT. It's all for clicks and views. Nothing more.