Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: liberalismo on February 13, 2009, 07:28:43 PM
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Natural bodybuilder Doug Miller
http://www.dougmillerpro.com/bio.html
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/dm_bkg3.jpg)
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0134.jpg)
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0118.jpg)
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0246.jpg)
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Ha ha natural ::) But I would like to take that chick's fatigues off and eat her pussy.
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good physique.....but not natural.
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Natural competitor. Physique definitely naturally achievable.
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LOL ::)
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Natural competitor. Physique definitely naturally achievable.
Yeah because every 2nd natty competitor looks like this cat..... ::)
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good physique.....but not natural.
Exactly....looks good, but I don't buy it.
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Achieving a physique like that naturally (if done right) isn't impossible. He's very ripped, but his size isn't at the point where you say he clearly uses Steroids.
A big problem is people who lift weights and don't get results they aim for like to claim that anyone more muscular must be on steroids, especially since a lot of people who use steroids for years never get anywhere near this physique level. It's mainly an issue of jealousy.
I tend to take people's word if their physiques don't shout "Steroids", and only a NancyBoy would ever say that this physique shouts steroids.
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not natural
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Achieving a physique like that naturally (if done right) isn't impossible. He's very ripped, but his size isn't at the point where you say he clearly uses Steroids.
A big problem is people who lift weights and don't get results they aim for like to claim that anyone more muscular must be on steroids, especially since a lot of people who use steroids for years never get anywhere near this physique level. It's mainly an issue of jealousy.
I tend to take people's word if their physiques don't shout "Steroids", and only a NancyBoy would ever say that this physique shouts steroids.
lol, it isn't jealously....it's common sense.
If you think you will be able to look like this guy naturally.....prepare yourself for dissapointment.
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who knows, dude looks fantastic though.
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Let's see some more pics of the girl.
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this fella loves trenbolone,,, hormonised with water suspensions,,, and no stranger to orals,,, as of 2009 this could be consiered natural
io856 dismissed
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lol, it isn't jealously....it's common sense.
If you think you will be able to look like this guy naturally.....prepare yourself for dissapointment.
Not really, I used to be just about as muscular when I was younger and I've never used steroids. I also know quite a few people who have comparable muscle mass (but not definition) who are natural.
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Not really, I used to be just about as muscular when I was younger and I've never used steroids. I also know quite a few people who have comparable muscle mass (but not definition) who are natural.
You mean you thought you were as muscular as that when you were younger...
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Not really, I used to be just about as muscular when I was younger and I've never used steroids. I also know quite a few people who have comparable muscle mass (but not definition) who are natural.
Let me guess though.....your camera was broken the whole time you were that jacked..... ::)
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Not really, I used to be just about as muscular when I was younger and I've never used steroids. I also know quite a few people who have comparable muscle mass (but not definition) who are natural.
::) i think your memory is a bit off.
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::) i think your memory is a bit off.
hahaha ;D
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The people who deny people like this are either natural themselves and have physiques that do not compare, or use steroids and have physiques that don't compare and are jealous and refuse to admit that some people out there have the work ethic and grit to get to this level naturally. Looking at this persons physique, he's not a monster nor does he have the tell tale signs of steroid use. If I saw him in the gym I would not presume he used steroids if he said he didn't.
I'm not a jealous person.
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The people who deny people like this are either natural themselves and have physiques that do not compare, or use steroids and have physiques that don't compare and are jealous and refuse to admit that some people out there have the work ethic and grit to get to this level naturally. Looking at this persons physique, he's not a monster nor does he have the tell tale signs of steroid use. If I saw him in the gym I would not presume he used steroids if he said he didn't.
I'm not a jealous person.
::)
Welcome to the 2000s
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The people who deny people like this are either natural themselves and have physiques that do not compare, or use steroids and have physiques that don't compare and are jealous and refuse to admit that some people out there have the work ethic and grit to get to this level naturally. Looking at this persons physique, he's not a monster nor does he have the tell tale signs of steroid use. If I saw him in the gym I would not presume he used steroids if he said he didn't.
I'm not a jealous person.
fuck you are clueless..... ::)
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fuck you are clueless..... ::)
No. I'm just honest with myself and don't like to deny the hard work of others. You are insecure with your own physique and don't want to admit that it's possible to get to this level naturally, since it would mean that your work ethic is much weaker.
I think it's time to grow up.
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as natural as pam anderson's tits
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Nobody ever said this guy hasn't worked his ass off...
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No. I'm just honest with myself and don't like to deny the hard work of others. You are insecure with your own physique and don't want to admit that it's possible to get to this level naturally, since it would mean that your work ethic is much weaker.
I think it's time to grow up.
just because you juice doesn't mean you don't work hard, even an idiot can see the guy trains and diets extremely hard but my guess is that he dabbles a bit in the good 'ol hormones.
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well then you produce that physique without any aid... until you do - shut the fuck up. that size and lean condition is not attainable by 99.9% of the human population.. at all.
you must be trolling.
It's attainable, with the right amount of work. This person has produced that physique without steroids, so it's clearly possible.
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No. I'm just honest with myself and don't like to deny the hard work of others. You are insecure with your own physique and don't want to admit that it's possible to get to this level naturally, since it would mean that your work ethic is much weaker.
I think it's time to grow up.
Wrong on all counts.
I'm a realist.....if you think that anyone can look like this with hard training and dieting, fine.....just don't come crying to me when after 10 years of training you look no where as good as this guy.
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It's attainable, with the right amount of work. This person has produced that physique without steroids, so it's clearly possible.
And how do you know he is natural?
Because he says so?
lol, you have to be joking..... :-\
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Wrong on all counts.
I'm a realist.....if you think that anyone can look like this with hard training and dieting, fine.....just don't come crying to me when after 10 years of training you look no where as good as this guy.
If I were 25 years old and had 10 years of training, I could attain a physique like this with modern gym equipments and nutrition.
Unlike most people posting on this thread, I don't spend 10 hours a day on Getbig.com. The only reason people here are so doubtful is because they have no clue what 10 years of training really can accomplish, since this guy likely trains as hard in 1 month as most people here train in their entire lifetime. This guy doesn't have 50,000 posts on a bodybuilding website.
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since this guy likely trains as hard in 1 month as most people here train in their entire lifetime. This guy doesn't have 50,000 posts on a bodybuilding website.
def a troll
::)
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And how do you know he is natural?
Because he says so?
lol, you have to be joking..... :-\
I don't "know" he's natural anymore than I "know" Twiggy didn't use Anabolic Steroids. I'm just saying that based on his physique, I wouldn't conclude that he uses steroids if he says he is natural. He simply is not muscular enough for me to disbelieve him.
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I don't "know" he's natural anymore than I "know" Twiggy didn't use Anabolic Steroids. I'm just saying that based on his physique, I wouldn't conclude that he uses steroids if he says he is natural. He simply is not muscular enough for me to disbelieve him.
hahahaha, "not muscular enough"? what is muscular enough, Ronnie Coleman? ::)
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If I were 25 years old and had 10 years of training, I could attain a physique like this with modern gym equipments and nutrition.
Unlike most people posting on this thread, I don't spend 10 hours a day on Getbig.com. The only reason people here are so doubtful is because they have no clue what 10 years of training really can accomplish, since this guy likely trains as hard in 1 month as most people here train in their entire lifetime. This guy doesn't have 50,000 posts on a bodybuilding website.
lol, i love how you just assume that this guy is the only guy to ever train hard.
But hey, if you think that hard training dieting and "modern gym equipments" will get you this type of physique.....go for it
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def a troll
::)
I've been here 7 months, jackass. I contribute to the forum. You only claim I am a 'troll' because I'm disrupting your delusional and self-centered jealous worldview.
Talk about pathetic.
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lol, i love how you just assume that this guy is the only guy to ever train hard.
But hey, if you think that hard training dieting and "modern gym equipments" will get you this type of physique.....go for it
I've been on Getbig long enough to know that 90% of the people here know nothing about bodybuilding and don't even look like they lift weights. 90% of the people on this website are simply attached to the feeling of being immersed in bodybuilding talk, and they interpret that as somehow making them bodybuilders. It's a case of delusion.
Most people here, I wouldn't even consider bodybuilders let alone weight lifters.
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I've been on Getbig long enough to know that 90% of the people here know nothing about bodybuilding and don't even look like they lift weights. 90% of the people on this website are simply attached to the feeling of being immersed in bodybuilding talk, and they interpret that as somehow making them bodybuilders. It's a case of delusion.
Most people here, I wouldn't even consider bodybuilders let alone weight lifters.
good for you!
and I bet with your attitudes/beliefs you don't even look like a bodybuilder
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This guy is only 185lbs in competition at 5'9!
Only the most pathetic jealous pansies would claim that a cut 5'9" 185lbs is impossible without steroids.
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If I were 25 years old and had 10 years of training, I could attain a physique like this with modern gym equipments and nutrition.
Unlike most people posting on this thread, I don't spend 10 hours a day on Getbig.com. The only reason people here are so doubtful is because they have no clue what 10 years of training really can accomplish, ::) since this guy likely trains as hard in 1 month as most people here train in their entire lifetime. This guy doesn't have 50,000 posts on a bodybuilding website.
I've been training (hard) for over 10 years and don't have a comparable physique at the moment, so STFU GIMP!
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I've been training (hard) for over 10 years and don't have a comparable physique at the moment, so STFU GIMP!
maybe you didn't use "modern gym equipments" ??
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maybe you didn't use "modern gym equipments" ??
;D
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This guy is only 185lbs in competition at 5'9!
Only the most pathetic jealous pansies would claim that a cut 5'9" 185lbs is impossible without steroids.
Meltdown.
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I've been training (hard) for over 10 years and don't have a comparable physique at the moment, so STFU GIMP!
That's because you spend more time online than you do in the gym.
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maybe you didn't use "modern gym equipments" ??
Yeah, maybe he is too busy using those ancient barbells and dumbbells..... :-\
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That's because you spend more time online than you do in the gym.
1.5 hours 4x's a week in the gym is enough for me anymore and, for me, i'd be overtraining. It's not all about time in the gym and if you knew anything about training you would know that!
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I don't know these guys so I can't confirm that they are natural or not but this is how most serious lifting natural guys looked back in the 60's/70's and never had any idea about competing in a BB contest. Back then these guys would compete in endurance events or various pull up or bench press contests that were held in various beach cities up and down the Souther California coast. Winners would receive a small trophy or a couple of free meals in a local hash house and braggen rights.
Most of these beach cit events were won by CP Marines or San Diego sailors who spent a couple of off-hours each day in the base gyms.
If you could bench over 300 pounds back then, you were consider a bench press champion.
But then Pat Casey came along and loaded the bar to 600, benched it - and it's never been the same ever since. That was the day the lion roared. And then sometime around 1963/64, the bulking craze got relatively popular - and bodybuilding took a drastic detour.
Good detour or bad - it's all in the eyes of the beholder.
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I got to 208 pounds naturally... but with a bit of fat. you cant get the condition that guy has while holding on to size.
you haven't done it... and only a very few genetic elite could do it.
and that has nothing to do with training or diet... its just not possible genetically for most people.
size or condition - you take your pick... you cant have both in a major way without help.
like I said - you haven't... so why the rant?
brutal truth.
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2nd shot of an individual who deserves my respect. Natural or not, he accomplished what is is impossible for the vast majority.
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2nd shot of an individual who deserves my respect. Natural or not, he accomplished what is is impossible for the vast majority.
Is that 'Timberwolf'?
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How many of you think this guy uses steroids?
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album1/Large/sc3.jpg)
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How many of you think this guy uses steroids?
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album1/Large/sc3.jpg)
"Ain't nobody gonna smile at me..rip it..com'on"
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The truth is...Layne Norton is just a few small steps away from the physique I posted on the 1st page and is totally natural.
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Not even remotely close to natural. Do you still believe in the Easter Bunny?
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as natural as pam anderson's tits
About as natural as having fitness chicks licking their shit off your dick...
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I'd like to see your physique... if you dont mind. because the reality is that you dont really know what anyone else does... at all.
so if you're going to continue with this nonsense... post up your natural 200 pound lean build.
or please - go away. because if your doing this and happen to look like shit... well then you're a loser.
I'm far too old to look like this. I never said I ever had a 200lb lean build, you're putting words into my mouth. You're full of shit.
I'm 100% positive that Layne Norton doesn't use Steroids. Layne's physique is quite close to the person I posted. But I'm sure you believe that even Layne Norton uses steroids.
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I'm far too old to look like this. I never said I ever had a 200lb lean build, you're putting words into my mouth. You're full of shit.
I'm 100% positive that Layne Norton doesn't use Steroids. Layne's physique is quite close to the person I posted. But I'm sure you believe that even Layne Norton uses steroids.
Sorry man, but Layne does not look like this dude. Layne I believe, this guy you chose, nope.
About as natural as Joe Weeda having women in his office....
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I'm far too old to look like this. I never said I ever had a 200lb lean build, you're putting words into my mouth. You're full of shit.
I'm 100% positive that Layne Norton doesn't use Steroids. Layne's physique is quite close to the person I posted. But I'm sure you believe that even Layne Norton uses steroids.
I believe its already been discussed/discovered that he has used PED.
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About as natural as female bbers who shave their faces....
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really? how so?
You obfuscate the points I make and use copouts.
Your conception of what can and can't be achieved naturally is so far off reality that it's laughable.
You're a jackass.
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About as natural as Steve Blekman's love for women...
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Folks, Go to bed. Wake up tomorrow. DO NOT log onto getbig. Go to the gym. Exercise until you can't exercise anymore. Go to work. Go to the gym after work, repeat process. Go home. Go to bed. Wake up......
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(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0134.jpg)
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0118.jpg)
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0246.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2006/layne40k.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/big/2006/layne41_greatlake7.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/laynenorton/Layne%20Hand%20on%20Hips%20Most%20muscular.jpg)
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That 1st picture is Older I think. Of layne norton.
He's not as big, but he's quite close.
(http://www.biolayne.com/Bio%20Layne%20Web%20Gallery/Albums/Album1/Large/MM_1.jpg)
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About as natural as tan in a bottle...
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His legs are genuinely twice Layne's...and Layne is supposed to be an uber-natural.
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His legs are genuinely twice Layne's...and Layne is supposed to be an uber-natural.
Exactly, anyone who says he not using is blind or has a man crush on him (love sometimes inhibits people from seeing the truth).
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I swear on Ronnie Coleman's tackle box full of pills, that dude is not natural.
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This guy looks awesome, but he's got the kind of face you wanna punch hard.
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0134.jpg)
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2nd shot of an individual who deserves my respect. Natural or not, he accomplished what is is impossible for the vast majority.
holy shit that is what i call shredded.
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This guy looks awesome, but he's got the kind of face you wanna punch hard.
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0134.jpg)
You may even get away with it too....I see no armband tattoo so he's not a tough guy.
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You may even get away with it too....I see no armband tattoo so he's not a tough guy.
Just gotta make sure I don't cut my hand on that pointy ass nose he's got.
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Natural? or not He has a great body. Everyone will agree to that...
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Natural? or not He has a great body. Everyone will agree to that...
So does Dexter, Jay, Coleman, etc. They are all using massive amounts of AAS and HGH. Whether he has a "great body" is not the question, the question is this the "ideal natural physique". Bottom Line - NO FU$CKIN WAY IS THE GUY NATURAL.
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He is getbig natural. Getbig is home to the world's greatest naturals.
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the thing is.. the guys not natural and the moron that started this thread is not now... nor has he ever been in his life in that type of condition.
but he's going to sit here and tell us whats possible? like he knows?
this is a shameful thread.
99.9% Not natural.. Still Great body.........
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I got to 208 pounds naturally... but with a bit of fat. you cant get the condition that guy has while holding on to size.
you haven't done it... and only a very few genetic elite could do it.
and that has nothing to do with training or diet... its just not possible genetically for most people.
size or condition - you take your pick... you cant have both in a major way without help.
like I said - you haven't... so why the rant?
Spot on.
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This guy looks awesome, but he's got the kind of face you wanna punch hard.
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0134.jpg)
LMAO! QFT! It was however probably some ad for a gay "Men's Workout" magazine.
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Natural! HAHA FFS Think on man
By the way, I think he is entering Getbig IV
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This guy looks awesome, but he's got the kind of face you wanna punch hard.
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0134.jpg)
Not in the same league with Scott Alexander.
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About Layne:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3516327422111020106
In the video, at the part 1:30 he started to use steroids.
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hahaha, the second comment under video:
"ok Gustav is taking Roids.But i have friends who look almost like him (95%)they train for some 7-10 years and they are all natural no stupid proteins creatin or steroid..its posible to be almost like him but you need a long time for that...btw NATURAL is bether..."
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hahaha, the second comment under video:
"ok Gustav is taking Roids.But i have friends who look almost like him (95%)they train for some 7-10 years and they are all natural no stupid proteins creatin or steroid..its posible to be almost like him but you need a long time for that...btw NATURAL is bether..."
WOW....NATURALLY STOOOPID!
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arod and bonds were natural also, until reality set in... people will believe anything lol!
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This guy looks awesome, but he's got the kind of face you wanna punch hard.
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0134.jpg)
Agreed, it's the kinda look where he's got a better physique than you and he knows it.
c u n t >:(
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Looking at this persons physique, he's not a monster nor does he have the tell tale signs of steroid use.
No? You don't even need to see the body, all you need to do is see the face.
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The truth is...Layne Norton is just a few small steps away from the physique I posted on the 1st page and is totally natural.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha yes and those steps consist of loading a syringe with 600mg test ent + 600mg deca every week for 12 weeks + 100mg adrol a day, before changing to eq + test prop+winny+t3+clen etc etc
you trolls make me laugh.
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Is there any proof that any of these guys are natural? I can't imagine many competitions being willing to pay for the tests.
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Actually if you look at this shot, which was taken only about a month from the others on this thread, he looks like he could be drug-free here. I have competed in drug tested shows and there were some guys that looked pretty close to this. When you have good shape and muscle bellies, and you diet down extremely slow over a period of several months, you can maintain some fullness. Most true natties look flat as a pancake when they rip up because they go low carbs and do it too fast.
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hahaha, the second comment under video:
"ok Gustav is taking Roids.But i have friends who look almost like him (95%)they train for some 7-10 years and they are all natural no stupid proteins creatin or steroid..its posible to be almost like him but you need a long time for that...btw NATURAL is bether..."
kill yourself >:(
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Doug has great shape and muscle bellies. You can't compare Layne to Doug at the present. I have seen Doug train and he is very strong, and dosen't look that big in person. With his shirt on he looks average. Is he natural? You would wonder how he passes all the drug test. For the people who don't think he is natural, do you think his wife next to him is natural, she has alot of muscle?
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Doug has great shape and muscle bellies. You can't compare Layne to Doug at the present. I have seen Doug train and he is very strong, and dosen't look that big in person. With his shirt on he looks average. Is he natural? You would wonder how he passes all the drug test. For the people who don't think he is natural, do you think his wife next to him is natural, she has alot of muscle?
No, shes a var junkie. :D
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im pretty sure doug has admitted to experimenting with tons of different pro hormones and other "supplements" that might not be the real deal, but are close... ditto for his wife. she is big in person, far bigger than any 100% natural girl i know...
but who cares?
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It seems that people who know the guy can back up the idea that he's natural. Pro Hormones in the past or not.
Also, Anyone claiming that Layne Norton isn't naturally really need to smack themselves.
Massive jealousy in this thread. Just a bunch of internet pansies.
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that's funny coming from the biggest queen in this thread... your thread is lame.. you deserve to be ridiculed because you actually believe this natural idea. which is a fine idea but you posted a guy who is not natural.
You're simply too lazy to get yourself to the gym and get a physique like this one, so you refuse to admit that it's possible. Sad.
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You're simply too lazy to get yourself to the gym and get a physique like this one, so you refuse to admit that it's possible. Sad.
lol, i love your excuses....."too lazy to go to the gym".....you know it doesn't take endless hours in the gym to train.....1-1.5 hrs 3-4 times a week is suffecient for a natty.....most people here do that, if not more.
It's not a matter of laziness or motivation.....it's a matter of genetics or simply being realistic.
Let's just say this guy actually is natural.....99.99999% of trainers will never look that good.....so if something is almost impossible for most natties to achieve.....why would you consider this to be ideal when in reality most people will need drugs to look that good?
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lol, i love your excuses....."too lazy to go to the gym".....you know it doesn't take endless hours in the gym to train.....1-1.5 hrs 3-4 times a week is suffecient for a natty.....most people here do that, if not more.
It's not a matter of laziness or motivation.....it's a matter of genetics or simply being realistic.
Let's just say this guy actually is natural.....99.99999% of trainers will never look that good.....so if something is almost impossible for most natties to achieve.....why would you consider this to be ideal when in reality most people will need drugs to look that good?
I doubt most people here even go to the gym once a week.
It's more than about simply "going to the gym" in fact, it's about sweat and toil. It's about the pain.
You say 99.999999% of trainers will never look like this? The truth is, there are plenty of naturals who look like this or close.
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I doubt most people here even go to the gym once a week.
It's more than about simply "going to the gym" in fact, it's about sweat and toil. It's about the pain.
You say 99.999999% of trainers will never look like this? The truth is, there are plenty of naturals who look like this or close.
lol, probably everyone on getbig trains.
If you didn't train.....why the fuck would you join a place like getbig in the first place? ::)
Oh.....and there are plenty of naturals who look like that? Do yourelf a favour.....go to a natural bb'ing show and you will see first hand that this type of physique is almost impossible without drugs.
and you make it out like this guy is the only guy who trains hard.....your an idiot, heaps of people train as hard as possible and will never look that good.
Hard work is important.....but it cannot overcome your genetic potential.
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lol, probably everyone on getbig trains.
If you didn't train.....why the fuck would you join a place like getbig in the first place? ::)
Oh.....and there are plenty of naturals who look like that? Do yourelf a favour.....go to a natural bb'ing show and you will see first hand that this type of physique is almost impossible without drugs.
and you make it out like this guy is the only guy who trains hard.....your an idiot, heaps of people train as hard as possible and will never look that good.
Hard work is important.....but it cannot overcome your genetic potential.
Most who post very frequently here, the "vets", don't look like they even lift weights. They are professional getbig posters, that's all.
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Most who post very frequently here, the "vets", don't look like they even lift weights. They are professional getbig posters, that's all.
Just because most of us aren't 3% BF with ripped glutes doesn't mean they don't train.
And you are proving my point exactly.....you are comparing the typical getbig natty who trains hard to this guy and you say they look like shit. Doesn't that tell you something?
Or let me guess, they just don't train hard enough and don't use "modern gym equipments"..... ::)
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These guys are just as natural as that guy
(http://www.musclehack.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/natural-bodybuilder-jeff-willet.jpg)
(http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~goelzer/serge_nubret_006s.jpg)
(http://npcoklahoma.org/NewDiary/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/Palumbo_Med.JPG)
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Just because most of us aren't 3% BF with ripped glutes doesn't mean they don't train.
And you are proving my point exactly.....you are comparing the typical getbig natty who trains hard to this guy and you say they look like shit. Doesn't that tell you something?
Or let me guess, they just don't train hard enough and don't use "modern gym equipments"..... ::)
The "average" getbigger has the physique of someone who doesn't even lift weights. Most of the more frequent posters here don't look like they even lift weights, and the ones that do look like they lift weights look like they do it rarely.
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These guys are just as natural as that guy
I wonder, why do you have a picture of a Hitler youth and and the term "White is nice"? Racist much?
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The "average" getbigger has the physique of someone who doesn't even lift weights. Most of the more frequent posters here don't look like they even lift weights, and the ones that do look like they lift weights look like they do it rarely.
With that sweeping statement I take it you dont look like you lift weights then?
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The "average" getbigger has the physique of someone who doesn't even lift weights. Most of the more frequent posters here don't look like they even lift weights, and the ones that do look like they lift weights look like they do it rarely.
Maybe you should post up some pics then seeming as you look so much better than everyone here and you are the hardest training person on getbig..... :)
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240orbust
Jtsunami
Vince Goodrum
All monsters! I'd name many more if I had a better memory, but their pictures are posted as jokes in threads every day. Typical most frequent posters physiques on getbig.com is sad.
For those who post on getbig all day but have decent physiques, maybe if you'd stop posting here so much and spent more time on your physiques you wouldn't think it impossible for the O.P. physique to be natural.
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240orbust
Jtsunami
Vince Goodrum
All monsters! I'd name many more if I had a better memory, but their pictures are posted as jokes in threads every day. Typical most frequent posters physiques on getbig.com is sad.
For those who post on getbig all day but have decent physiques, maybe if you'd stop posting here so much and spent more time on your physiques you wouldn't think it impossible for the O.P. physique to be natural.
Again you seem to be thinking that more time in the gym = better physique.
As i already said, training 1 - 1.5hrs 3-4 times a week is sufficient enough for a natty to optimally train and develop.
And a good diet doesn't need to be a full time job either.....
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this guy swears to be natural, and he actually made it into the olympia back in the day.
(http://www.hardbodysuccessblog.com/.a/6a00e009951474883300e553f114118833-pi)
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Not really, I used to be just about as muscular when I was younger and I've never used steroids. I also know quite a few people who have comparable muscle mass (but not definition) who are natural.
Idiot.
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this guy swears to be natural, and he actually made it into the olympia back in the day.
(http://www.hardbodysuccessblog.com/.a/6a00e009951474883300e553f114118833-pi)
i swear i have a 12" penis, that doesn't make it true.
i'd never cut 2 " off my meat ;D
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Ha ha natural ::) But I would like to take that chick's fatigues off and eat her pussy.
...LOL
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And how do you know he is natural?
Because he says so?
lol, you have to be joking..... :-\
And how do you know he is not natural?
Because you says so?
lol, you have to be joking..... :-\
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John Cena says he is natural also... lol Yea, there are plenty of 240lbs shredded guys walking around who can squat 500lbs, bench 400 and deadlift 600... and are in shape 365 days a year
oh and the nice GH jaw
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Not really, I used to be just about as muscular when I was younger and I've never used steroids. I also know quite a few people who have comparable muscle mass (but not definition) who are natural.
when i was 240 ripped at 5'10" competing nationally a lot of real old men would say they used to be built just like me, and they would really believe it. that would mean they were bigger and leaner than the Mr. Universes of their day. oh and no, i wasn't natural.
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It seems that people who know the guy can back up the idea that he's natural. Pro Hormones in the past or not.
Also, Anyone claiming that Layne Norton isn't naturally really need to smack themselves.
Massive jealousy in this thread. Just a bunch of internet pansies.
ask my parents if i was natural when i was benching 400+ lbs. and they would say of course he is.
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when i was 240 ripped at 5'10" competing nationally a lot of real old men would say they used to be built just like me, and they would really believe it. that would mean they were bigger and leaner than the Mr. Universes of their day. oh and no, i wasn't natural.
My dad always likes to say....
'When I was younger people thought I looked just like Arnolds twin......they always called me Danny.' ;D
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My dad always likes to say....
'When I was younger people thought I looked just like Arnolds twin......they always called me Danny.' ;D
hahaha ;D
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Doug Miller is the hardest working Natural (YES NATURAL) bodybuilder I have ever met. I've never seen someone so meticulous (or should I say anal) about his dieting and training as Doug is.
In regards to training, Doug will NEVER, and I mean NEVER miss a day of training, injury or not, he will still go in and he never takes time off not even on vacation.
In regards to diet he EATS super clean all year long, his off-season diet looks like my pre-contest diet.
I hear lots of people that say they eat clean all year long, but that bullshit, its not like how Doug does it, the man has adapted his body to be the ideal muscle building machine. If most people worked as hard as him believe me there would be some massive guys walking around!
I am proud to consider him and his wife real good friends!
Oh and by the way, he has NEVER failed a polygraph or a piss test (and he is tested at EVERY show), oh and as an IFPA pro he is tested in the off-season by surprise. Sorry you fuckers, but keep living in your sheltered world of "anyone who is big is juicing", this why you will never go further than your 130 lbs physique!"
BIG ACH
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Doug Miller is the hardest working Natural (YES NATURAL) bodybuilder I have ever met. I've never seen someone so meticulous (or should I say anal) about his dieting and training as Doug is.
In regards to training, Doug will NEVER, and I mean NEVER miss a day of training, injury or not, he will still go in and he never takes time off not even on vacation.
In regards to diet he EATS super clean all year long, his off-season diet looks like my pre-contest diet.
I hear lots of people that say they eat clean all year long, but that bullshit, its not like how Doug does it, the man has adapted his body to be the ideal muscle building machine. If most people worked as hard as him believe me there would be some massive guys walking around!
I am proud to consider him and his wife real good friends!
Oh and by the way, he has NEVER failed a polygraph or a piss test (and he is tested at EVERY show), oh and as an IFPA pro he is tested in the off-season by surprise. Sorry you fuckers, but keep living in your sheltered world of "anyone who is big is juicing", this why you will never go further than your 130 lbs physique!"
BIG ACH
::)
Credibility....u dont have it. ;)
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Doug Miller is the hardest working Natural (YES NATURAL) bodybuilder I have ever met. I've never seen someone so meticulous (or should I say anal) about his dieting and training as Doug is.
In regards to training, Doug will NEVER, and I mean NEVER miss a day of training, injury or not, he will still go in and he never takes time off not even on vacation.
In regards to diet he EATS super clean all year long, his off-season diet looks like my pre-contest diet.
I hear lots of people that say they eat clean all year long, but that bullshit, its not like how Doug does it, the man has adapted his body to be the ideal muscle building machine. If most people worked as hard as him believe me there would be some massive guys walking around!
I am proud to consider him and his wife real good friends!
Oh and by the way, he has NEVER failed a polygraph or a piss test (and he is tested at EVERY show), oh and as an IFPA pro he is tested in the off-season by surprise. Sorry you fuckers, but keep living in your sheltered world of "anyone who is big is juicing", this why you will never go further than your 130 lbs physique!"
BIG ACH
You are a liar, just like your friend....keep telling it though.... :-*
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He sounds like a barrel of fun.
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Doug Miller is the hardest working Natural (YES NATURAL) bodybuilder I have ever met. I've never seen someone so meticulous (or should I say anal) about his dieting and training as Doug is.
In regards to training, Doug will NEVER, and I mean NEVER miss a day of training, injury or not, he will still go in and he never takes time off not even on vacation.
In regards to diet he EATS super clean all year long, his off-season diet looks like my pre-contest diet.
I hear lots of people that say they eat clean all year long, but that bullshit, its not like how Doug does it, the man has adapted his body to be the ideal muscle building machine. If most people worked as hard as him believe me there would be some massive guys walking around!
I am proud to consider him and his wife real good friends!
Oh and by the way, he has NEVER failed a polygraph or a piss test (and he is tested at EVERY show), oh and as an IFPA pro he is tested in the off-season by surprise. Sorry you fuckers, but keep living in your sheltered world of "anyone who is big is juicing", this why you will never go further than your 130 lbs physique!"
BIG ACH
Ach,
Im confused.
If his year round diet is super clean and looks like YOUR PRE-CONTEST diet,
Then how is his body able to be a muscle building machine eating a contest-prep diet year round?
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Doug Miller is the hardest working Natural (YES NATURAL) bodybuilder I have ever met. I've never seen someone so meticulous (or should I say anal) about his dieting and training as Doug is.
In regards to training, Doug will NEVER, and I mean NEVER miss a day of training, injury or not, he will still go in and he never takes time off not even on vacation.
In regards to diet he EATS super clean all year long, his off-season diet looks like my pre-contest diet.
I hear lots of people that say they eat clean all year long, but that bullshit, its not like how Doug does it, the man has adapted his body to be the ideal muscle building machine. If most people worked as hard as him believe me there would be some massive guys walking around!
I am proud to consider him and his wife real good friends!
Oh and by the way, he has NEVER failed a polygraph or a piss test (and he is tested at EVERY show), oh and as an IFPA pro he is tested in the off-season by surprise. Sorry you fuckers, but keep living in your sheltered world of "anyone who is big is juicing", this why you will never go further than your 130 lbs physique!"
BIG ACH
Ach,
I also find it hard to believe that anyone is more diciplined than Layne Norton.
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Natural competitor. Physique definitely naturally achievable.
Natural Competition doesn't constitute to a Natural Bodybuilder... Schmoe!
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Ach,
Im confused.
If his year round diet is super clean and looks like YOUR PRE-CONTEST diet,
Then how is his body able to be a muscle building machine eating a contest-prep diet year round?
I didn't mean quantity wise its like my pre-contest diet, I meant QUALITY wise, he eats SUPER clean in the off-season. Hell, his off-season diet is BETTER than my pre-contest diet, cause I will cheat during pre-contest.
I think he downs over 4000 calories in the off-season but REALLY REALLY REALLY clean. Its almost annoying, anytime we hang out he scans the menu to get absolutely healthiest thing, if its not there he will alter so much on a dish just to make sure its bodybuilder approved (THIS IS OFF-SEASON).
I used to train with him, and he was just insane, I thought I was crazy in the gym, but he is a freaking monster. Just goes in there, Lifts heavy shit and gets out, no BSing no socializing, nothing!
I really respect him, the man just gets it!
And to top it off the man graduated college top of his class with a 4.0 GPA with a double major in Economics and Microbiology!!!!!!!!
Fucking does everything the righ way down to a T, he is one of those crazy perfectionists.
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One more thing, the guy is EXTREMELY humble and helps people, gives them pre-contest advice not asking for any financial return or anything like that.
He's been there for me and many other people I know!
I remember at his second show where he turned pro, I was actually emceeing, and when he came out onstage, the entire crowd just went "HOLY SHIT" he was just sooooo massive in comparison to all the other guys, won it easily hands down!
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unfortunately diet and training can NOT overcome genetics. some of these guys people claim are natural... display development combined with low bodyfat that's impossible to achieve without help from drugs.
you guys say so and so trains really hard and has his diet nailed blah blah... that's all irrelevant - you cant out train genetics.
its takes drugs.. just accept the fact. show me a guy who's massive... and ripped - 9 times out of ten this guy uses drugs.
I'm sorry you feel this way, but I beg to differ and there are many others who will support me on this claim.
Let me give you an experiment to try, get ready for a show, do a full 3-4 month pre-contest absolutely clean diet. Whether you do a show or not is up to you. When you are done, take one night and enjoy yourself, eat whatever you want. The next day, go into a CLEAN off-season diet and gradually increase your calories, DO NOT CHEAT and stick to this plan for 6-8 months. You will be pleasantly surprised by the outcome. I gaurantee you, if you do this, the physque you see in the mirror will be one that will make you take back your words.
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well I feel this way because its simply reality. again you're talking about diet... and ignoring the genetic limits MOST human beings exhibit.
I think you can develop a great build naturally... I developed a decent build without drugs. that said - you will not become massive... and get shredded while retaining mass... without drugs.
now there are genetic marvels walking around that have a great build... and low bodyfat - and dont even lift. these guys are in that .5 percentile of genetic freaks.. for most people thats not going to happen.
are you one of the exceptions? are you massive and ripped without drugs?
Dude I'm definitely not denying the genetics or drug factor.
I do believe someone like Doug, besides the fact that his diet is excellent and so is his training, I think he was blessed with great genetics! The best for this sport!!!! These things combined took him to where he is!
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Also I think its important to note that Doug Competes at about 185 lbs.
You wanna tell me that a natural cannot do that????
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GENETICS + EXCELLENT DIET + EXCELLENT TRAINING + Plus Decent true Supplments = Natural Bodybuilding Champions
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Has it dawned on any of you brainiacs that maybe Doug is not like most people? That maybe is he is one of those very rare individuals who combines superior genetics, superior work ethic, and also pays meticulous attention to his diets and supplements? Could it be that is why he has risen to the top of his sport?
You assume Doug must be on drugs because none of you dingleberries, or any of the dingleberries you train with at your local gyms, looks like him. But mabye the reason no one at your gym looks like one of the best pro natural bodybuilders in the country is because... follow me now... none of the top natural pros train at your gym. There are only a handful of them... but thousands of gyms.
How many of you have ever been to a natural bodybuilding show? How many have been to a pro natural show? Do any of you retards even know what some of the other top naturals look like?
You all think Doug looks too good to be natural, but believe it or not, he didn't win his last show, which was the IFPA Yorton Cup in 2007. He lost to this guy:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/xn6j4w.jpg)
Pretty good, huh? Is he also on drugs... and therefore a liar and a cheat? (Maybe you should tell him that if you ever meet him in person. He's a U.S. Marine. That should be an interesting conversation.)
Here's the two of them together:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/6f18qp.jpg)
Here's the top three from that show:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/33z8tcl.jpg)
At these shows, the competitors are polygraphed and the winners have to pass a urinalysis before they are officially declared the winner. Are the IFPA officials who run the show liars and cheats? And also the judges... the polygraph examiners... and the lab workers who do the urinalysis? That's what you have to believe if you think Doug could compete in this contest and not be natural.
Get over your jealousy boys and hit the wieghts a little harder. Oh... and since everyone here is so concerned with the training credentials of people posting, I can squat 355 and deadlift 435... and that's at 42 years old!
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Doug Miller is the hardest working Natural (YES NATURAL) bodybuilder I have ever met. I've never seen someone so meticulous (or should I say anal) about his dieting and training as Doug is.
In regards to training, Doug will NEVER, and I mean NEVER miss a day of training, injury or not, he will still go in and he never takes time off not even on vacation.
In regards to diet he EATS super clean all year long, his off-season diet looks like my pre-contest diet.
I hear lots of people that say they eat clean all year long, but that bullshit, its not like how Doug does it, the man has adapted his body to be the ideal muscle building machine. If most people worked as hard as him believe me there would be some massive guys walking around!
I am proud to consider him and his wife real good friends!
Oh and by the way, he has NEVER failed a polygraph or a piss test (and he is tested at EVERY show), oh and as an IFPA pro he is tested in the off-season by surprise. Sorry you fuckers, but keep living in your sheltered world of "anyone who is big is juicing", this why you will never go further than your 130 lbs physique!"
BIG ACH
Yeah, you`re just a fucking MONSTER Ach...
(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/archer3wks1.jpg)
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Yeah, you`re just a fucking MONSTER Ach...
(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/archer3wks1.jpg)
Thanks dude!
But I've never referred to myself as that! ;) But thanks bro! ::)
Post your pic big guy?
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/33z8tcl.jpg)
all of these guys... had help.
The guy on the left is Kareem "Reemo" Petteway
IFPA Pro
And Former WNBF Pro Champion!!
Another good friend and a great guy!
Here is a pic of me and Reemo, and Doug in the back!
(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/reemodougach.jpg)
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Has it dawned on any of you brainiacs that maybe Doug is not like most people? That maybe is he is one of those very rare individuals who combines superior genetics, superior work ethic, and also pays meticulous attention to his diets and supplements? Could it be that is why he has risen to the top of his sport?
You assume Doug must be on drugs because none of you dingleberries, or any of the dingleberries you train with at your local gyms, looks like him. But mabye the reason no one at your gym looks like one of the best pro natural bodybuilders in the country is because... follow me now... none of the top natural pros train at your gym. There are only a handful of them... but thousands of gyms.
How many of you have ever been to a natural bodybuilding show? How many have been to a pro natural show? Do any of you retards even know what some of the other top naturals look like?
You all think Doug looks too good to be natural, but believe it or not, he didn't win his last show, which was the IFPA Yorton Cup in 2007. He lost to this guy:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/xn6j4w.jpg)
Pretty good, huh? Is he also on drugs... and therefore a liar and a cheat? (Maybe you should tell him that if you ever meet him in person. He's a U.S. Marine. That should be an interesting conversation.)
Here's the two of them together:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/6f18qp.jpg)
Here's the top three from that show:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/33z8tcl.jpg)
At these shows, the competitors are polygraphed and the winners have to pass a urinalysis before they are officially declared the winner. Are the IFPA officials who run the show liars and cheats? And also the judges... the polygraph examiners... and the lab workers who do the urinalysis? That's what you have to believe if you think Doug could compete in this contest and not be natural.
Get over your jealousy boys and hit the wieghts a little harder. Oh... and since everyone here is so concerned with the training credentials of people posting, I can squat 355 and deadlift 435... and that's at 42 years old!
Gayer than worshipping Nasser.
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(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/reemodougach.jpg)
I'd say you guys have no problem getting laid 8)
Reemo sure as hell gets more pussy than the AMTRAK Train's hauls weed trafficers!!!
Doug's got a wife, and so do I. So we're done :-D
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Doug Miller is the hardest working Natural (YES NATURAL) bodybuilder I have ever met. I've never seen someone so meticulous (or should I say anal) about his dieting and training as Doug is.
In regards to training, Doug will NEVER, and I mean NEVER miss a day of training, injury or not, he will still go in and he never takes time off not even on vacation.
In regards to diet he EATS super clean all year long, his off-season diet looks like my pre-contest diet.
I hear lots of people that say they eat clean all year long, but that bullshit, its not like how Doug does it, the man has adapted his body to be the ideal muscle building machine. If most people worked as hard as him believe me there would be some massive guys walking around!
I am proud to consider him and his wife real good friends!
Oh and by the way, he has NEVER failed a polygraph or a piss test (and he is tested at EVERY show), oh and as an IFPA pro he is tested in the off-season by surprise. Sorry you fuckers, but keep living in your sheltered world of "anyone who is big is juicing", this why you will never go further than your 130 lbs physique!"
BIG ACH
Thanks for the reply. Getbiggers are notorious for being envious and couch potatoes. 90% of getbiggers don't even look like they lift weights, and they sit at home claiming that a toned 185lb guy "obviously uses steroids". It's pathetic. Most people denying that Doug is a natural don't even lift weights.
(No doubt they have replied to you with more B.S. and skepticism fueled by their jealousy)
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WHY did you guys do that??
Well I've known my wife since we were in 8th grade and have dated almost that entire time (we're both 26 now), Its a sap story so thats that.
I think Doug's wife was the only one who can handle that big guy LOL
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Thanks for the reply. Getbiggers are notorious for being envious and couch potatoes. 90% of getbiggers don't even look like they lift weights, and they sit at home claiming that a toned 185lb guy "obviously uses steroids". It's pathetic. Most people denying that Doug is a natural don't even lift weights.
(No doubt they have replied to you with more B.S. and skepticism fueled by their jealousy)
Doug is one of my best friends in the natural bodybuilding circuit, he's a stand up guy, and so respectable, I think of most people meet him they will be taken back by his persnality and how well spoken he is. Just a good guy!
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I didn't mean quantity wise its like my pre-contest diet, I meant QUALITY wise, he eats SUPER clean in the off-season. Hell, his off-season diet is BETTER than my pre-contest diet, cause I will cheat during pre-contest.
I think he downs over 4000 calories in the off-season but REALLY REALLY REALLY clean. Its almost annoying, anytime we hang out he scans the menu to get absolutely healthiest thing, if its not there he will alter so much on a dish just to make sure its bodybuilder approved (THIS IS OFF-SEASON).
I used to train with him, and he was just insane, I thought I was crazy in the gym, but he is a freaking monster. Just goes in there, Lifts heavy shit and gets out, no BSing no socializing, nothing!
I really respect him, the man just gets it!
And to top it off the man graduated college top of his class with a 4.0 GPA with a double major in Economics and Microbiology!!!!!!!!
Fucking does everything the righ way down to a T, he is one of those crazy perfectionists.
That's fantastic. Most people here spend 10 hours a day online posting bullshit and have no conception of what "hard work" really is. So they attack the accomplishments of others, because they can't accept the fact that they aren't that good.
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unfortunately diet and training can NOT overcome genetics. some of these guys people claim are natural... display development combined with low bodyfat that's impossible to achieve without help from drugs.
you guys say so and so trains really hard and has his diet nailed blah blah... that's all irrelevant - you cant out train genetics.
its takes drugs.. just accept the fact. show me a guy who's massive... and ripped - 9 times out of ten this guy uses drugs.
90% of guys who are massive and ripped use drugs?
Hahaha. Holy shit, You're living in a dreamland.
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you should have me paint your wife then... I'm an artist. www.myspace.com/flawedbrilliance
she'll love you forever if you get her painting done... plus you could help feed me.
:o WOW your paintings are beautiful!!!! I'll talk to my wife, but I doubt she'll be up for it!!! LOL
You can paint me, I'll drive my wife crazy and hang a pic up of myself right in our living room ;D If you sculpt, woulda had you do a bronze statue for my front yard too :-) I think then I'd be living outside with it hahaha
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Gayer than worshipping Nasser.
Doug is my friend and occassional workout partner. That makes me gay??? Man, this place is weird.
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you're right... I must be delusional. massively ripped men - drug free are everywhere you look. I guess I getter become a little more observant.
but you were never massive or ripped - because you simply didn't feel like it.
You have a comprehension problem. I never said that "massively ripped men are everywhere". I said that your claim that "90% of massive and ripped bodybuilders are using drugs" is utter bullshit.
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Also I think its important to note that Doug Competes at about 185 lbs.
You wanna tell me that a natural cannot do that????
You and writerman are fools and/or liars. Likely both. This argument is proof.
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I said that your claim that "90% of massive and ripped bodybuilders are using drugs" is utter bullshit.
What is you bodybuilding experience, how long have you been training, do you associate with a lot of competitive bodybuilders, etc?
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You and writerman are fools and/or liars. Likely both. This argument is proof.
And you're an envious asshole with no class.
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Oh and by the way, he has NEVER failed a polygraph or a piss test (and he is tested at EVERY show), oh and as an IFPA pro he is tested in the off-season by surprise. Sorry you fuckers, but keep living in your sheltered world of "anyone who is big is juicing", this why you will never go further than your 130 lbs physique!"
BIG ACH
First of all I bet there's no testing or very little if so. And if you claim there's a lot of testing where the hell is the money coming from for these tests? Get fuckin real! Do you know what it costs?
Secondly, I took a look at this IFPA fed and it rules.
http://www.theocbwebsite.com/forms/DrugTestingGuidelines.pdf
Lots of anabolic steroids were perfectly fine to use just a year or two ago. What do you say about that?
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And you're an envious asshole with no class.
Liars have no class. You seem to be somewhat of a newbie (could be wrong) so it might just be a case of not knowing the reality of the situation, so I won't call you a liar yet. Maybe you don't know any better.
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I'm sure Doug Miller himself would have a good laugh at all of the jealous couch potatoes on here claiming he's a steroid user.
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I'm sure Doug Miller himself would have a good laugh at all of the jealous couch potatoes on here claiming he's a steroid user.
What's your personal bodybuilding experience? How long have you been following bodybuilding? Do you have many years of personally observing what drugs do to a persons physique?
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I'm sure Doug Miller himself would have a good laugh at all of the jealous couch potatoes on here claiming he's a steroid user.
Kinda like we laugh at twunts that think just because someone claims to be streroid free, then they must be, right? Oh wait, they are tested....so are olympic athletes...some of the most juiced on the planet. Dumbass...
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What's your personal bodybuilding experience? How long have you been following bodybuilding? Do you have many years of personally observing what drugs do to a persons physique?
I've been lifting weights since probably before you were born. Muscle drugs didn't become mainstream until the early 1980s, before that they were used mostly in the top bodybuilding or athletic circles like the Olympics. I've spent tons of time in the gym, and I've seen the progression of countless bodybuilders including myself. I've known a lot of very muscular and lean bodybuilders who had always said they were natural, and I've seen the progression of bodybuilders who have said they were using steroids. I know what a physique looks like when it's more likely that the person is using steroids than it is that they aren't, and Doug Miller's physique isn't at the point where I would say "Aha! He's obviously using steroids." Since that is the case, I take his word for it and the word of those people who know him and agree that he is natural.
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Kinda like we laugh at twunts that think just because someone claims to be streroid free, then they must be, right? Oh wait, they are tested....so are olympic athletes...some of the most juiced on the planet. Dumbass...
Few Olympians use steroids. The one's that do just get tons of media attention, out of the thousands who don't. People only say that many use steroids because they are jealous of their accomplishments and bitter because they don't have what it takes to do the same.
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Has it dawned on any of you brainiacs that maybe Doug is not like most people? That maybe is he is one of those very rare individuals who combines superior genetics, superior work ethic, and also pays meticulous attention to his diets and supplements? Could it be that is why he has risen to the top of his sport?
You assume Doug must be on drugs because none of you dingleberries, or any of the dingleberries you train with at your local gyms, looks like him. But mabye the reason no one at your gym looks like one of the best pro natural bodybuilders in the country is because... follow me now... none of the top natural pros train at your gym. There are only a handful of them... but thousands of gyms.
How many of you have ever been to a natural bodybuilding show? How many have been to a pro natural show? Do any of you retards even know what some of the other top naturals look like?
You all think Doug looks too good to be natural, but believe it or not, he didn't win his last show, which was the IFPA Yorton Cup in 2007. He lost to this guy:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/xn6j4w.jpg)
Pretty good, huh? Is he also on drugs... and therefore a liar and a cheat? (Maybe you should tell him that if you ever meet him in person. He's a U.S. Marine. That should be an interesting conversation.)
Here's the two of them together:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/6f18qp.jpg)
Here's the top three from that show:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/33z8tcl.jpg)
At these shows, the competitors are polygraphed and the winners have to pass a urinalysis before they are officially declared the winner. Are the IFPA officials who run the show liars and cheats? And also the judges... the polygraph examiners... and the lab workers who do the urinalysis? That's what you have to believe if you think Doug could compete in this contest and not be natural.
Get over your jealousy boys and hit the wieghts a little harder. Oh... and since everyone here is so concerned with the training credentials of people posting, I can squat 355 and deadlift 435... and that's at 42 years old!
Dear Mr. 4 Posts,
Hi, I'm bigger than all the people you post pictures of, BIG ACH, and you.
Do you know why all these guys claim natural status?
Because as 'bodybuilders' they are nothing special. Therefore they try to make themselves something, by qualifying themselves as natural.
They think, 'hey I have a physique that would be impressive if I was clean'.
No one would ever discuss them if they competed in the NPC.
Oh, and dudes wife is blatantly a user too.
See, some people here may indeed be foolish enough to buy into this crap, but not all of us.
In closing, Hi doug.
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I've been lifting weights since probably before you were born. Muscle drugs didn't become mainstream until the early 1980s, before that they were used mostly in the top bodybuilding or athletic circles like the Olympics. I've spent tons of time in the gym, and I've seen the progression of countless bodybuilders including myself. I've known a lot of very muscular and lean bodybuilders who had always said they were natural, and I've seen the progression of bodybuilders who have said they were using steroids. I know what a physique looks like when it's more likely that the person is using steroids than it is that they aren't, and Doug Miller's physique isn't at the point where I would say "Aha! He's obviously using steroids." Since that is the case, I take his word for it and the word of those people who know him and agree that he is natural.
You are full of shit dude. Sorry plain and simple this post wreaks of ignorance. I've seen TONS of older guys that I know for a fact who've never used steroids and have been working out their entire adult life, one of them is a published author on the history of bodybuilding and probably has forgotten more than you know when it comes to bodybuilding (and I'm not trying to offend you either). They look NOTHING like a steroid using bodybuilder. Some of them look damn good but there is NEVER a question as to whether or not someone is using steroids. And you're wrong........."muscle drugs" were extremely popular in the 70's. I'd argue moreso than the 80's. I'm not sure who Doug Miller is......is he the guy pictured in the OP's post? If so he IS NO FUCKING WAY natural. Especially for his age. It takes years and years of dedicated discipline to build a truly impressive physique naturally. And very few people do it nowadays, especially anyone under 30 years old.
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Liberalismo you are clueless dude. That Doug Miller guy is NO FUCKING WAY IN HELL NATURAL. Do you even know what natural looks like? Casey Butt, who is actually a member here has what a truly natural physique looks like. I believe Goudy is in fact natural or atleast has what a natural physique is supposed to look like.
http://www.weightrainer.net/index.html
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"Big" ach looks natural. His friends are lying to him about not being on the gas. Maybe they should let him in on it, until then he should change his name to "little ach".
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You are full of shit dude. Sorry plain and simple this post wreaks of ignorance. I've seen TONS of older guys that I know for a fact who've never used steroids and have been working out their entire adult life, one of them is a published author on the history of bodybuilding and probably has forgotten more than you know when it comes to bodybuilding (and I'm not trying to offend you either). They look NOTHING like a steroid using bodybuilder. Some of them look damn good but there is NEVER a question as to whether or not someone is using steroids. And you're wrong........."muscle drugs" were extremely popular in the 70's. I'd argue moreso than the 80's. I'm not sure who Doug Miller is......is he the guy pictured in the OP's post? If so he IS NO FUCKING WAY natural. Especially for his age. It takes years and years of dedicated discipline to build a truly impressive physique naturally. And very few people do it nowadays, especially anyone under 30 years old.
I don't know where to start, but based on this post it's obvious that you spend more time posting on Getbig.com than you do actually learning about bodybuilding. Let me address your post in numbers and refute your claims as I go along:
1. There is no such thing as a look of a "Steroid using bodybuilder". It's a fallacy to believe that all steroid users have a certain look. Take a look through: http://www.steroidology.com/forum/pictures-our-members/ (http://www.steroidology.com/forum/pictures-our-members/) and see what I am saying. MOST steroid users in general who bodybuild have physiques that can't even compare to the decent natural competitors. Look at that site and browse through some of the physiques of the steroid users, they look average. So saying that there is "never a question if someone is using steroids" is possibly the most ignorant statement in this thread.
2. I never said that muscle drugs weren't "popular" in the 60s or 70s. I said they were not "Mainstream". This means that you didn't see them in gyms all over like we do today. Today they are everywhere, but in the 60s and 70s only a small minority of recreational weight lifters used them.
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"Big" ach looks natural. His friends are lying to him about not being on the gas. Maybe they should let him in on it, until then he should change his name to "little ach".
You are right, I do look natural because I am natural, would be cool if I didn't look natural, but I do. Never once did I claim that I don't???
And to Van Bilderass, I have NEVER competed in an OCB show that was NOT tested, every single show I was ever apart of had EVERY competitor (including myself) tested by either polygraph or Urine, and I have NEVER attended a an OCB or an IFPA show that was not tested I saw the drug tests myself, and I've seen people fail them.
Who pays for it? The competitor does... aside from the entry fee, all OCB and IFPA shows charge each competitor for the drug test. Price of the test per competitor varies from promoter to promoter.
Sorry to let you guys down but they are natural!
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I'm sure Doug Miller himself would have a good laugh at all of the jealous couch potatoes on here claiming he's a steroid user.
By the way, Doug is laughing about this, he is the one that sent me the link to this thread and he said, and I quote "This is a funny thread!"
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And to Van Bilderass, I have NEVER competed in an OCB show that was NOT tested, every single show I was ever apart of had EVERY competitor (including myself) tested by either polygraph or Urine, and I have NEVER attended a an OCB or an IFPA show that was not tested I saw the drug tests myself, and I've seen people fail them.
Who pays for it? The competitor does... aside from the entry fee, all OCB and IFPA shows charge each competitor for the drug test. Price of the test per competitor varies from promoter to promoter.
Sorry to let you guys down but they are natural!
How much is the test, approximately? Can you give a name of a lab that is used for this testing? Drug testing is very expensive and testing every competitor just doesn't sound right. What is common is that everyone pees in a cup but only a few samples are actually sent in. That's what a lot of feds do. Not even in the Olympics is every competitor tested. Sure, if your fed tests at all it's not a very comprehensive panel but it's still not cheap.
Has Doug used any of the hormones that weren't/aren't banned by the rules? Someone on this thread said he has admitted to using OTC hormones. Is that correct?
Is Core Nutritionals his company?
This is one of his products:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/core/zap.html
Contains this compound:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/07/AR2006050700913.html
An Illinois chemist awaiting sentencing for his role in the biggest steroid scandal in U.S. history has for months been involved in marketing a dietary supplement containing a little-known amphetamine-like substance that would be undetectable in current sports drug tests, according to an analysis of the product for The Post.
It's now on the WADA banned list from what I hear.
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Has it dawned on any of you brainiacs that maybe Doug is not like most people? That maybe is he is one of those very rare individuals who combines superior genetics, superior work ethic, and also pays meticulous attention to his diets and supplements? Could it be that is why he has risen to the top of his sport?
You assume Doug must be on drugs because none of you dingleberries, or any of the dingleberries you train with at your local gyms, looks like him. But mabye the reason no one at your gym looks like one of the best pro natural bodybuilders in the country is because... follow me now... none of the top natural pros train at your gym. There are only a handful of them... but thousands of gyms.
How many of you have ever been to a natural bodybuilding show? How many have been to a pro natural show? Do any of you retards even know what some of the other top naturals look like?
You all think Doug looks too good to be natural, but believe it or not, he didn't win his last show, which was the IFPA Yorton Cup in 2007. He lost to this guy:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/xn6j4w.jpg)
Pretty good, huh? Is he also on drugs... and therefore a liar and a cheat? (Maybe you should tell him that if you ever meet him in person. He's a U.S. Marine. That should be an interesting conversation.)
Here's the two of them together:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/6f18qp.jpg)
Here's the top three from that show:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/33z8tcl.jpg)
At these shows, the competitors are polygraphed and the winners have to pass a urinalysis before they are officially declared the winner. Are the IFPA officials who run the show liars and cheats? And also the judges... the polygraph examiners... and the lab workers who do the urinalysis? That's what you have to believe if you think Doug could compete in this contest and not be natural.
Get over your jealousy boys and hit the wieghts a little harder. Oh... and since everyone here is so concerned with the training credentials of people posting, I can squat 355 and deadlift 435... and that's at 42 years old!
I think both are natural, but the fact that the black guy is a Marine and therefore must be natural is a laughable joke. I have been around a few Marine bases and some of the Marines not only actively took steroids, they sold them as well.
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Serious question what kind of money can you make by competing naturally?
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How much is the test, approximately? Can you give a name of a lab that is used for this testing? Drug testing is very expensive and testing every competitor just doesn't sound right. What is common is that everyone pees in a cup but only a few samples are actually sent in. That's what a lot of feds do. Not even in the Olympics is every competitor tested. Sure, if your fed tests at all it's not a very comprehensive panel but it's still not cheap.
Has Doug used any of the hormones that weren't/aren't banned by the rules? Someone on this thread said he has admitted to using OTC hormones. Is that correct?
Is Core Nutritionals his company?
This is one of his products:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/core/zap.html
Contains this compound:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/07/AR2006050700913.html
It's now on the WADA banned list from what I hear.
From what I've paid it was about 50 dollars.
EVERY competitor is tested by polygraph by a law enforcement agency. If Polygraph is not administered then every competitor is tested by urinalysis. I can't tell you the name of the lab, but if you give me sometime I can get it, because I was sent a file with my lab results after the competition, I'll look for it and try to scan it for you.
Core is Doug's company, whatever is in his products, its aloud in the federations that he competes in.
As for money, there is no money in Natural bodybuilding, the top of the top pros probably make about 7000 dollars per show, thats if you're REALLY REALLY REALLY good, but thats a big exception.
James001, if you do a search you will find that he has posted in the past on getbig and admitted he never used and talked about it.
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well then why doesn't he chime in? let him come tell us he's never used anything.
He's in the business of selling stimulants that WADAs top anti-doping researchers have their eye on. This guy obviously is using, and selling, anything not expressly listed as banned by his fed. That's great, can't use ephedrine but this stimulant drug is fine. Drug free he is not. And this is obviously not all he's using.
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He's in the business of selling stimulants that WADAs top anti-doping researchers have their eye on. This guy obviously is using, and selling, anything not expressly listed as banned by his fed. That's great, can't use ephedrine but this stimulant drug is fine. Drug free he is not. And this is obviously not all he's using.
Look, this is not abut what the WADA has banned or not, this is about ANABOLIC STEROIDS. There is a difference.
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I need to run and take the wife to the airport, will be back in a few hours and we can continue all this fun!!!
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From what I've paid it was about 50 dollars.
Well, you know damn well you can't get any lab testing for 50 bucks. Something smells in here. Window dressing.
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steroids are very popular in the marines.
Haha this thread gets fucking more hilarious by the minute. Oh my no Marine would ever use big bad steroids! They are pristine and pure! They don't kill their wives, rob, steal, cheat, like other members of society. ?????????????LMAO! This thread is a fucking joke. Anyone that believes this Doug character is natural is a fucking moron. I mean my god........look at the flaming Andy Haman took claiming he could bench press 600lbs for reps. These bodybuilders are LIARS! Plain and simple.
There is ABSOLUTELY a look of a steroid user. If you don't believe that you are clueless and have probably never used steroids yourself.
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Look, this is not abut what the WADA has banned or not, this is about ANABOLIC STEROIDS. There is a difference.
He calls himself drug free. And his fed forbids the use of stimulants, just not that specific one. What about the OTC hormones, has he used them or not?
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Well, you know damn well you can't get any lab testing for 50 bucks. Something smells in here. Window dressing.
All I can say is I got a Legit Lab report!
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in the pics where he is standing by himself he looks amazing but when he is next to ppl, then i can belive that he is natural
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I need to run and take the wife to the airport, will be back in a few hours and we can continue all this fun!!!
You're a fucking dork! You look like a fat slob when you're not in contest prep judging by the pics on your website. There's no way in hell you are natural. You might very well not be using "anabolic steroids" but you are not "natural". Which is another moniker of these "natural" idiot bodybuilders. They may not be using anabolic steroids but they use everything else under the sun.
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GH, IGF, Slin and TNE.....passing a drug test is easy as hell.
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I don't know why anyone would want to try to justify themselves to you couch potato, pansy, envious ingrates. Wasted time and wasted energy is what it would be.
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Dear Mr. 4 Posts,
Hi, I'm bigger than all the people you post pictures of, BIG ACH, and you.
You must have an awesome physique. What was the last show you did?
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You must have an awesome physique. What was the last show you did?
Havnt competed in several years...and yes I've posted pics.
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Havnt competed in several years...and yes I've posted pics.
Ok, I tried a search... but you have 20 pages of posts. Not really interested in scrolling through all that.
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Writerman and liberalismo, if Doug used all these OTC designer steroids available before they were banned would you still consider him lifetime drug free?
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Ok, I tried a search... but you have 20 pages of posts. Not really interested in scrolling through all that.
This isnt about me anyway, its about guys who claim natural status because otherwise they'd be no one in the bodybuilding industry....
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Writerman and liberalismo, if Doug used all these OTC designer steroids available before they were banned would you still consider him lifetime drug free?
In all honesty, I don't know what these products are. Tell me the names of the products/compounds and I will ask him if he took them. Not sure you will believe me either way... but I will ask him.
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This isnt about me anyway, its about guys who claim natural status because otherwise they'd be no one in the bodybuilding industry....
All of a sudden you are shy?!
You came on here boasting about how big you are/were. Why don't you tell me the name of the last show you did and how you placed?
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In all honesty, I don't know what these products are. Tell me the names of the products/compounds and I will ask him if he took them. Not sure you will believe me either way... but I will ask him.
Things like "1-AD", "Superdrol", "M1T", "Phera-Plex" etc. Bonafide steroids that only became banned fairly recently. The rule book of the fed he competes in mentions them.
Cannot have been used after January 19, 2005¹
•
1-Testosterone / 1-dihydrotestosterone / 1-Androstendiol (e.g.1-AD)/1-Androstendione
•
4-Hydroxytestosterone / Formestane
•
Androstendione / Androstendiol (e.g. 4-AD) / (T/E Ratio > 6)
•
Bolasterone
•
Calusterone
•
Furazabol
•
Mestanolone
•
Methyl-1-testosterone (e.g. M1T)
•
Nandrolone / 19-Norandrostendione / 19-Norandrostendiol
•
Norclostebol
•
Norethandrolone / Ethylestrenol
•
Stenbolone
¹ The Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 went into effect January 20, 2005. The bill added a number of “prohormones” and “prosteriods” to the list of illegal anabolic steroids previously established. The new additions became banned substances with OCB effective January 20, 2005. A complete list of banned substances included in the Act can be found online at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.2195:
Cannot have been used after January 1, 2006²
•
Desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT) (e.g. Pheraplex, Ergomax, Methyl-Plex, etc)
•
Methasterone (e.g. Superdrol, Methyl Masterdrol, and Methyl-Drol XT)
•
Prostanozol (e.g. Orastan-E)
² Designer steroids that were being legally sold over-the-counter as supplements became banned with the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) effective January 1, 2006 and subsequently became banned substances with OCB effective that date as well.
Cannot have been used after January 1, 2007³[/u]
•
Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione / 19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione (e.g. FiniGenX Magnum, Tren Extreme)
•
6a-Methylandrostendione / 17-hydroxy-6-alpha methyl-ethyletiochalon-3,20 dione (e.g. M1P)
³ Supplements that were/are being legally sold over-the-counter that contain ingredients screened for in the urinalysis procedure that became banned substances with OCB effective January 1, 2007.
So as you see several designer steroids were fine to use not that long ago.
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ProHormones were banned years ago, and If he used them at the time then they would have little effect on his current physique. I used ProHormones before they were banned and it did nothing for me. I don't know what Doug has used, but like Writerman said, ask him and he'll tell you.
Also, TacoBell. You're the one calling people out to post pictures yet you're afraid to post your current pictures? Hmmm.
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Things like "1-AD", "Superdrol", "M1T", "Phera-Plex" etc. Bonafide steroids that only became banned fairly recently. The rule book of the fed he competes in mentions them.
Those aren't real steroids. They are precursors which don't work that well to begin with. I don't know if Doug ever used such things, but maybe he'll come here and clarify what he has and hasn't used in his life.
Though, even if he used prohormones several years ago, they would have little effect on his current physique, nullifying any relevancy that has to my argument that his current physique can be attained naturally.
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I've posted my pics...I've shown who I am to certain members on this board, those members are respected, you guys are not.
I dont have competitor stars cause I dont want them.
Ron knows what circle I ran in.
I wish to maintain my anonymity for personal reasons.
Hope this helps.
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Those aren't real steroids. They are precursors which don't work that well to begin with. I don't know if Doug ever used such things, but maybe he'll come here and clarify what he has and hasn't used in his life.
Though, even if he used prohormones several years ago, they would have little effect on his current physique, nullifying any relevancy that has to my argument that his current physique can be attained naturally.
They are real steroids and many credible people have testified that M1T for example is the strongest oral they have used. Including things like Dianabol and Anadrol. There's a reason M1T was on steroid dealer lists after the ban.
If someone has used them it reveals a certain mindset = you have no problem using hormones as long as they aren't expressly banned. There are a bunch of hormones still not on those lists so there are still ways to drug yourself while claiming "natural". The fact that Doug sells the stimulant means he isn't above using experimental psychoactive drugs either. As long as it's not on the banned list. I did a search on bb.com and he is on there asking if a certain hormone derivative is fine to use and if it will cause you to test positive. He has the druggie mindset.
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They are real steroids and many credible people have testified that M1T for example is the strongest oral they have used. Including things like Dianabol and Anadrol.
If someone has used them it reveals a certain mindset = you have no problem using hormones as long as they aren't expressly banned. There are a bunch of hormones still not on those lists so there are still ways to drug yourself while claiming "natural". The fact that Doug sells the stimulant means he isn't above using experimental psychoactive drugs either. As long as it's not on the banned list. I did a search on bb.com and he is on there asking if a certain hormone derivative is fine to use and if it will cause you to test positive. He has the druggie mindset.
M1t was absolutely the most potent shit I ever took, bar none.
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I've posted my pics...I've shown who I am to certain members on this board, those members are respected, you guys are not.
I dont have competitor stars cause I dont want them.
Ron knows what circle I ran in.
I wish to maintain my anonymity for personal reasons.
Hope this helps.
FAIL.
If you want to maintain your anonymity maybe you shouldn't go around calling out people and bragging about how much bigger you are. LOL What a joke.
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FAIL.
If you want to maintain your anonymity maybe you shouldn't go around calling out people and bragging about how much bigger you are. LOL What a joke.
Why not, respected members can back me up?
And who did I call out? I said they're arent natural, and they're not.
And who the fvck are you to make suggestions anyway....NOOB
:)
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Why not, respected members can back me up?
And who did I call out? I said they're arent natural, and they're not.
And who the fvck are you to make suggestions anyway....NOOB
:)
Dude, you are a joke.
Anyone who posts this...
Dear Mr. 4 Posts,
Hi, I'm bigger than all the people you post pictures of, BIG ACH, and you.
Do you know why all these guys claim natural status?
Because as 'bodybuilders' they are nothing special. Therefore they try to make themselves something, by qualifying themselves as natural.
They think, 'hey I have a physique that would be impressive if I was clean'.
No one would ever discuss them if they competed in the NPC.
Oh, and dudes wife is blatantly a user too.
See, some people here may indeed be foolish enough to buy into this crap, but not all of us.
In closing, Hi doug.
... should be prepared to back up his words with pictures.
You obviously wont.
FAIL
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^^^^^^
Again, you = nobody.
I dont give a shit what Mr. 4 posts thinks.
Good luck to you.
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^^^^^^
Again, you = nobody.
I dont give a shit what Mr. 4 posts thinks.
Good luck to you.
956 posts. So what? That entitles you to what, exactly???
You bragged about how big you are, but won't post pics. Speaks for itself!!
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I've posted my pics...I've shown who I am to certain members on this board, those members are respected, you guys are not.
I dont have competitor stars cause I dont want them.
Ron knows what circle I ran in.
I wish to maintain my anonymity for personal reasons.
Hope this helps.
If I had a dime for every time I've heard this excuse from someone online, I'd be a goddamn millionaire!
I freely admit that I'm an old 6'1" 160lb skinny guy way past his prime. This is no hidden fact. I don't claim anything.
If you claim anything, Pictures are necessary. Copping out with how you only post pictures to certain members is the most pathetic thing I've seen in this thread. It seems that you're reluctant for personal reasons..which are in fact the fact that you know your physique doesn't stand up.
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They are real steroids and many credible people have testified that M1T for example is the strongest oral they have used. Including things like Dianabol and Anadrol. There's a reason M1T was on steroid dealer lists after the ban.
If someone has used them it reveals a certain mindset = you have no problem using hormones as long as they aren't expressly banned. There are a bunch of hormones still not on those lists so there are still ways to drug yourself while claiming "natural". The fact that Doug sells the stimulant means he isn't above using experimental psychoactive drugs either. As long as it's not on the banned list. I did a search on bb.com and he is on there asking if a certain hormone derivative is fine to use and if it will cause you to test positive. He has the druggie mindset.
That's crazy talk. I used M1T for several weeks several years ago, while still keeping my same strict routine and diet, and I didn't gain anything. It gave me Acne and slight nipple swelling, but I didn't gain any muscle or loose any fat. Pointless it was.
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If I had a dime for every time I've heard this excuse from someone online, I'd be a goddamn millionaire!
I freely admit that I'm an old 6'1" 160lb skinny guy way past his prime. This is no hidden fact. I don't claim anything.
If you claim anything, Pictures are necessary. Copping out with how you only post pictures to certain members is the most pathetic thing I've seen in this thread. It seems that you're reluctant for personal reasons..which are in fact the fact that you know your physique doesn't stand up.
Buddy, you dont get it.
I've posted pics, plenty of times.
Its just that neither of you two homos deserve the satisfaction of thinking you are important enough that I should prove myself to you.
Sorry.
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That's crazy talk. I used M1T for several weeks several years ago, while still keeping my same strict routine and diet, and I didn't gain anything. It gave me Acne and slight nipple swelling, but I didn't gain any muscle or loose any fat. Pointless it was.
M1T is without a steroid so is Superdrol. The thousands of people who have used them, including myself, can readily attest to their extreme effectiveness. Sorry but the only crazy talk going on is your epic denial.
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That's crazy talk. I used M1T for several weeks several years ago, while still keeping my same strict routine and diet, and I didn't gain anything. It gave me Acne and slight nipple swelling, but I didn't gain any muscle or loose any fat. Pointless it was.
So what are you saying? M1T is not an anabolic steroid?
Here's a pubmed entry for a steroid which was sold under names such as "Phera-Plex" etc. Also fine to use a couple of years ago in Doug's fed (banned Jan of 07). ::)
Toxicol Lett. 2007 Feb 28;169(1):64-71. Epub 2006 Dec 27.Click here to read Links
Characterisation of the pharmacological profile of desoxymethyltestosterone (Madol), a steroid misused for doping.
Diel P, Friedel A, Geyer H, Kamber M, Laudenbach-Leschowsky U, Schänzer W, Thevis M, Vollmer G, Zierau O.
Center for Preventive Doping Research, Institute of Cardiovascular Research and Sports Medicine, Department of Molecular and Cellular Sports Medicine, German Sports University Cologne, 50927 Cologne, Germany. diel@dshs-koeln.de
Desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT), also known as Madol, is a steroid recently identified to be misused as a doping agent. Since, the knowledge of functions of this substance is rather limited, it was our aim to characterise the pharmacological profile of DMT and to identify potential adverse side effects. DMT was synthesised, its purity was confirmed and its biological activity was tested. The potency of Madol (DMT) to transactivate androgen receptor (AR) dependent reporter gene expression was two times lower as compared to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Receptor binding tests demonstrate that DMT binds with high selectivity to the AR, binding to the progesterone receptor (PR) was low. In vivo experiments in orchiectomised rats demonstrated that treatment with DMT resulted only in a stimulation of the weight of the levator ani muscle; the prostate and seminal vesicle weights remained unaffected. Like testosterone, administration of DMT resulted in a stimulation of IGF-1 and myostatin mRNA expression in the gastrocnemius muscle. In the prostate proliferation was stimulated by TP (testosteronepropionate), but remained unaffected by DMT. Remarkably, treatment with DMT, in contrast to TP, resulted in a significant increase of the heart weight. In the liver, DMT slightly stimulates the expression of the tyrosine aminotransferase gene (TAT). Our results demonstrate that DMT is a potent AR agonist with an anabolic activity. Besides the levator ani weight, DMT also modulates the gene expression in the musculus gastrocnemius. The observed stimulation of TAT expression in the liver and the significant increase of the heart weight after DMT treatment can be taken as an indication for side effects. Summarizing these data it is obvious that DMT is a powerful anabolic steroid with selective androgen receptor modulators (SARM) like properties and some indications for toxic side effects. Therefore, there is a need for a strict control of a possible misuse.
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i've never taken m1t - can someone tell me what its like - sides, gains, how it stacks up against dbol, adrol, winny etc?
thanks
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i've never taken m1t - can someone tell me what its like - sides, gains, how it stacks up against dbol, adrol, winny etc?
thanks
Shits like anadrol on steroids. ;D
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just post the pic
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You're a fucking dork! You look like a fat slob when you're not in contest prep judging by the pics on your website. There's no way in hell you are natural. You might very well not be using "anabolic steroids" but you are not "natural". Which is another moniker of these "natural" idiot bodybuilders. They may not be using anabolic steroids but they use everything else under the sun.
Ok just got back!!!
MuscleMCMannus, Yes I get fat in the off-season, some off-seasons more than others!!! I've been as heavy as 260 lbs. This morning I weighed 215 lbs (Wow... true fat slob ::) ) I put myself out in the open with my pics PRE-CONTEST AND IN MY FAT OFF-SEASON shape and I'll never hide that.
Why don't you post your pictures tough guy? If you look so much better than me, I'll be the first one to give you all the props you deserve.
As to whether I am natural or not. Let me break it down to you and say what I have always said (and you can do a search on my posts in the past). I have never once taken Anabolic Steroids or GH, IGF-1, Slin, or Insulin, OR ANY ILLEGAL bodybuilding supplements.
YES, I have taken OTC pro-hormones, in the past and even today, and I have never once denied or hid that. When M1-T and 4-AD, 1-AD were legal I did take them in the off-season, and I made the organizations that I competed in completely aware of that, never hid it. Had I taken them during pre-contest I would have failed the piss test and not been allowed to compete (EVEN IF IT WAS JUST PRO-HORMONES, there are no exceptions). I've never used anything that was illegal or banned.
Today I take the pro-hormones that are allowed in my organizations (and anyone I compete with or the promoters know about it, I don't hide anything), again I wouldn't take them pre-contest because I wouldn't want to fail the piss test, but I will flat out admit it on the polygraph, and it is allowed by the organizations that I compete in.
So do I consider myself natural? YES I DO, AND more importantly the organizations that I compete in CONSIDER ME Natural, and frankly that is what I care about, I don't care about what some guy on the internet that I have never met thinks. If in your eyes taking OTC Pro-hormones is not natural and the same as using illegal anabolic steroids, then I guess in your eyes I will never be natural, and thats ok by me, that is your view, but the organizatons that I compete in consider me natural and thats what matters to me.
As for the debate about whether these OTC Pro-hormones are the same as real steroids, I wouldn't know I've never done real steroids. I will say that OTC Pro-hormones DO WORK, ESPECIALLY M1-T, god I miss that stuff!!!!! But do they work as well as REAL STEROIDS? I have no clue, but if you do a search on google, you will see lots of people that HAVE used steroids tell you that its nothing close!!!!!
Now, you called me a fat slob, and frankly I really don't care, yeah I have been a fat slob at times in the off-season, especially when I was 260!!!!! But now its my turn.... Post your pic, and I'll be ready to give you all the props that you deserve!!!
Peace!
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why are you quoting me? I was serious... roids are very popular in the marines.
DUDE I AGREE! I was being sarcastic! Of course steroids are big in the Marines.
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Shits like anadrol on steroids. ;D
M1-T was the BEST pro-hormone I have ever taken!!!! Hands down!!!
Is it like real juice, I really dunno because I've never used, but M1-T works and works GOOD!!!! I used it for sometime before it became illegal!!! AND I DO MISS IT, best thing about it was you could walk right into Vitamin shoppe and buy it!
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Ok just got back!!!
MuscleMCMannus, Yes I get fat in the off-season, some off-seasons more than others!!! I've been as heavy as 260 lbs. This morning I weighed 215 lbs (Wow... true fat slob ::) ) I put myself out in the open with my pics PRE-CONTEST AND IN MY FAT OFF-SEASON shape and I'll never hide that.
Why don't you post your pictures tough guy? If you look so much better than me, I'll be the first one to give you all the props you deserve.
As to whether I am natural or not. Let me break it down to you and say what I have always said (and you can do a search on my posts in the past). I have never once taken Anabolic Steroids or GH, IGF-1, Slin, or Insulin, OR ANY ILLEGAL bodybuilding supplements.
YES, I have taken OTC pro-hormones, in the past and even today, and I have never once denied or hid that. When M1-T and 4-AD, 1-AD were legal I did take them in the off-season, and I made the organizations that I competed in completely aware of that, never hid it. Had I taken them during pre-contest I would have failed the piss test and not been allowed to compete (EVEN IF IT WAS JUST PRO-HORMONES, there are no exceptions). I've never used anything that was illegal or banned.
Today I take the pro-hormones that are allowed in my organizations (and anyone I compete with or the promoters know about it, I don't hide anything), again I wouldn't take them pre-contest because I wouldn't want to fail the piss test, but I will flat out admit it on the polygraph, and it is allowed by the organizations that I compete in.
So do I consider myself natural? YES I DO, AND more importantly the organizations that I compete in CONSIDER ME Natural, and frankly that is what I care about, I don't care about what some guy on the internet that I have never met thinks. If in your eyes taking OTC Pro-hormones is not natural and the same as using illegal anabolic steroids, then I guess in your eyes I will never be natural, and thats ok by me, that is your view, but the organizatons that I compete in consider me natural and thats what matters to me.
As for the debate about whether these OTC Pro-hormones are the same as real steroids, I wouldn't know I've never done real steroids. I will say that OTC Pro-hormones DO WORK, ESPECIALLY M1-T, god I miss that stuff!!!!! But do they work as well as REAL STEROIDS? I have no clue, but if you do a search on google, you will see lots of people that HAVE used steroids tell you that its nothing close!!!!!
Now, you called me a fat slob, and frankly I really don't care, yeah I have been a fat slob at times in the off-season, especially when I was 260!!!!! But now its my turn.... Post your pic, and I'll be ready to give you all the props that you deserve!!!
Peace!
What about ephedrine? Clen? I'm not going to post my pics you're crazy. You're not natural buddy give it a rest. Natural to me is regular food and that's it and protein powders, amino acids etc. No ephedrine, no prohormones, no clen no NOTHING! And now that you've admitted it you definitely look like someone who uses the shit out of prohormones because you have that big puffy fat look........almost like you're body is producing too much estrogen which happens moreso with prohormones and not so much with synthetic anabolics and straight testosterone.
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M1t is not, nor ever was, a 'pro-hormone'.
M1t is an active steroidal compound, same as superdrol.
They are no more or less a steroid than Dbol, drol, var, winni etc....
And mg for mg, they are stronger than any of the others listed above.
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Prohormones suck. If they were so good pros would be using them instead of steroids. I've used them and they are NOTHING like real testosterone, dbol, anavar, etc. Why do you think the medical community invented synthetic derivatives instead of using prohormones? Prohormones are inefficient and too much converts to estrogen hence why everyone complains of sensitive nipples all the time.
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What about ephedrine? Clen? I'm not going to post my pics you're crazy. You're not natural buddy give it a rest. Natural to me is regular food and that's it and protein powders, amino acids etc. No ephedrine, no prohormones, no clen no NOTHING! And now that you've admitted it you definitely look like someone who uses the shit out of prohormones because you have that big puffy fat look........almost like you're body is producing too much estrogen which happens moreso with prohormones and not so much with synthetic anabolics and straight testosterone.
Never Used Clen!
Definitely used Ephedra, I think every single competitive bodybuilder natural or not has used the original ripped fuel, hydroxycut, xenadrine, hot rox it was in all of those OTC fat burners, so yes I have used it!!!
And no I have not used that shit out of pro-hormones but I have used them.
Don't post your picture, I'll just take your word that you look better than me ::)
And like I said, I really don't care if you consider me natural or not, All natural organizations except the WNBF would consider me natural. So thats what matters to me!!!
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Prohormones suck. If they were so good pros would be using them instead of steroids. I've used them and they are NOTHING like real testosterone, dbol, anavar, etc. Why do you think the medical community invented synthetic derivatives instead of using prohormones? Prohormones are inefficient and too much converts to estrogen hence why everyone complains of sensitive nipples all the time.
If you are saying that, how can you go and compare and say ones who use OTC Pro-hormones are not natural, and its the same shit??? you are going back and forth in your word?
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Buddy, you dont get it.
I've posted pics, plenty of times.
Its just that neither of you two homos deserve the satisfaction of thinking you are important enough that I should prove myself to you.
Sorry.
You can't prove yourself to anyone. If you could, you would have done so a long time ago in this thread. No one argues for pages trying to justify why he doesn't want to prove himself, any sane person would just post a picture and shut the people up. So shut us up and prove that you're what you claim you are. If you can't...YOU ought to shut up. Put up or shut up!
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They are real steroids and many credible people have testified that M1T for example is the strongest oral they have used. Including things like Dianabol and Anadrol. There's a reason M1T was on steroid dealer lists after the ban.
If someone has used them it reveals a certain mindset = you have no problem using hormones as long as they aren't expressly banned. There are a bunch of hormones still not on those lists so there are still ways to drug yourself while claiming "natural". The fact that Doug sells the stimulant means he isn't above using experimental psychoactive drugs either. As long as it's not on the banned list. I did a search on bb.com and he is on there asking if a certain hormone derivative is fine to use and if it will cause you to test positive. He has the druggie mindset.
I debated about whether to post or not on here, but I guess it can’t hurt LOL. This will probably be my first and last post because I don’t have a lot of time these days. I really don’t care what any of you think about me. Oh and the comments about my wife were nice too..ha. I understand its just the internet and you all say things to get a rise and a chuckle and that’s cool…whatever floats your boat. I want to set a couple things straight and the reason why I quoted this post.
I have a biochemistry and molecular biology degree and have always had an interest in supplements….Hence the reason I started Core Nutritionals. One of the reasons the OCB has the most specific and broadest drug testing banned list is because I am in the industry and helped bring these “prohormones” to the attention of OCB officers. In fact, up until this year, I would often respond to questions regarding banned substances for the organization since I new the most about the supplement industry and the crap people were pushing as safe OTC products. That is bull many OTC products are steroids and should be banned! No other natural BB org has as thorough of a list as the OCB! I’m not sure what thread you are referring to on BB.com but I have often asked about the metabolites of products so we can get them added to the banned list. In fact, I was the one who brought up the fact that ATD and other similar substances could probably cause positive urinalysis tests and should thus be banned. And for the record, I have not used any of the products mentioned, Van.
BTW Core ZAP is a great, safe, effective product that is not on any banned lists….and shouldn’t be!
It is kind of sad many of you think what I have achieved (and my wife) can’t be done without drugs. I’m never going to convince the doubters so I really don’t care. Best of luck to you all. I plan to bring an even better physique in 2009.
Best,
Doug
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M1T is without a steroid so is Superdrol. The thousands of people who have used them, including myself, can readily attest to their extreme effectiveness. Sorry but the only crazy talk going on is your epic denial.
I've talked to TONS of people who can "attest to the extreme effectiveness" of Celltech as well. Literally. That doesn't prove anything. Anyone who gets any gains from M1T (Or any other prohormone) must be so hormonally challenged and physically impotent that it's a shock to their feeble systems.
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So what are you saying? M1T is not an anabolic steroid?
Here's a pubmed entry for a steroid which was sold under names such as "Phera-Plex" etc. Also fine to use a couple of years ago in Doug's fed (banned Jan of 07). ::)
It's a "Steroid precursor". There's a difference.
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You can't prove yourself to anyone. If you could, you would have done so a long time ago in this thread. No one argues for pages trying to justify why he doesn't want to prove himself, any sane person would just post a picture and shut the people up. So shut us up and prove that you're what you claim you are. If you can't...YOU ought to shut up. Put up or shut up!
Big Ach has now admitted to using anabolic steroids. If Doug is the same type of natural will you concede that we who think he's a juicer were right?
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This guy said he's natural liberloser, http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=post;quote=3724895;topic=264827.0;num_replies=31;sesc=5683a63ce46e2094f248e37b4cf0396d
come on i am natural, i dont juice.
IT MUST BE TRUE!!
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It's a "Steroid precursor". There's a difference.
Absolutely wrong. The whole term "pro-hormone" was a way for supplement companies to try avoiding heat from the law. Even worse was the term "pro-steroid". What the hell is that?
M1T is an active steroid in itself and even if it needed to convert to active metabolites what's the difference? Lots of illegal steroids convert to more active metabolites.
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What about ephedrine? Clen? I'm not going to post my pics you're crazy. You're not natural buddy give it a rest. Natural to me is regular food and that's it and protein powders, amino acids etc. No ephedrine, no prohormones, no clen no NOTHING! And now that you've admitted it you definitely look like someone who uses the shit out of prohormones because you have that big puffy fat look........almost like you're body is producing too much estrogen which happens moreso with prohormones and not so much with synthetic anabolics and straight testosterone.
How the fuck are synthetic Protein powders and amino acids "natural" while prohormones are unnatural? How is ephedrine unnatural? Is Caffeine unnatural too?
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Big Ach has now admitted to using anabolic steroids. If Doug is the same type of natural will you concede that we who think he's a juicer were right?
Whatever you say buddy!
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are you stupid or what?
Is that a trick question?
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M1-T was the BEST pro-hormone I have ever taken!!!! Hands down!!!
Is it like real juice, I really dunno because I've never used, but M1-T works and works GOOD!!!! I used it for sometime before it became illegal!!! AND I DO MISS IT, best thing about it was you could walk right into Vitamin shoppe and buy it!
Just quoting for posterity sake.
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Just quoting for posterity sake.
Just putting it all out in the open!!!!
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I debated about whether to post or not on here, but I guess it can’t hurt LOL. This will probably be my first and last post because I don’t have a lot of time these days. I really don’t care what any of you think about me. Oh and the comments about my wife were nice too..ha. I understand its just the internet and you all say things to get a rise and a chuckle and that’s cool…whatever floats your boat. I want to set a couple things straight and the reason why I quoted this post.
I have a biochemistry and molecular biology degree and have always had an interest in supplements….Hence the reason I started Core Nutritionals. One of the reasons the OCB has the most specific and broadest drug testing banned list is because I am in the industry and helped bring these “prohormones” to the attention of OCB officers. In fact, up until this year, I would often respond to questions regarding banned substances for the organization since I new the most about the supplement industry and the crap people were pushing as safe OTC products. That is bull many OTC products are steroids and should be banned! No other natural BB org has as thorough of a list as the OCB! I’m not sure what thread you are referring to on BB.com but I have often asked about the metabolites of products so we can get them added to the banned list. In fact, I was the one who brought up the fact that ATD and other similar substances could probably cause positive urinalysis tests and should thus be banned. And for the record, I have not used any of the products mentioned, Van.
BTW Core ZAP is a great, safe, effective product that is not on any banned lists….and shouldn’t be!
It is kind of sad many of you think what I have achieved (and my wife) can’t be done without drugs. I’m never going to convince the doubters so I really don’t care. Best of luck to you all. I plan to bring an even better physique in 2009.
Best,
Doug
Thanks for taking the time to post a message for these pricks here. Obviously neither you, nor I, nor anyone else could ever possibly convince them that someone with a superior physique to theirs can be achieved without drugs. This would damage their massive egos, and thus they refuse to admit that it can be accomplished. It's an issue of prideful ignorance that causes them to deny individuals their accomplishments, and it saddens me.
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I’m not sure what thread you are referring to on BB.com but I have often asked about the metabolites of products so we can get them added to the banned list. In fact, I was the one who brought up the fact that ATD and other similar substances could probably cause positive urinalysis tests and should thus be banned. And for the record, I have not used any of the products mentioned, Van.
BTW Core ZAP is a great, safe, effective product that is not on any banned lists….and shouldn’t be!
It is kind of sad many of you think what I have achieved (and my wife) can’t be done without drugs. I really don’t care. Best of luck to you all. I plan to bring an even better physique in 2009.
The methylhexaneamine is a great drug, yes. I like it. But it is a drug and there's little research on it so you can't state for certain that it's safe. You are a drug user. How ridiculous that your org bans ephedrine, considering how much data there is on it, yet you pimp this untested shit! LOL ::)
Here's the thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109239851&
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How the fuck are synthetic Protein powders and amino acids "natural" while prohormones are unnatural? How is ephedrine unnatural? Is Caffeine unnatural too?
What the hell is this? Whoa! Here's something natural: testosterone. A 3cc syringe loaded with testosterone.
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Big Ach has now admitted to using anabolic steroids. If Doug is the same type of natural will you concede that we who think he's a juicer were right?
I think Doug has just said that he's never used Steroidal compounds, and even rallied for them to be banned in his organization.
If M1t Is considered a steroid, and If Big Ach has used them, then he's not "natural natural" but he's still quite close. I don't consider M1t to be anywhere near the level of typical steroids.
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How the fuck are synthetic Protein powders and amino acids "natural" while prohormones are unnatural? How is ephedrine unnatural? Is Caffeine unnatural too?
Are you that stupid? They don't manipulate hormones, metabolism or anything like that. You are being ridiculous now.
Doug you are a liar and a supplement charlatan. Just like Andy Haman and everyone else. You guys are fucking frauds to the Nth degree! Give it up loser! We aren't newbie teenagers.
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I really wish you could understand that this guy is deceiving you... not to mention his livelihood is based on deceiving people - he sells supplements... which do jack shit.
this has nothing to do with ego... his body looks good - but he's a piece of shit.
but what do I know? I'm a lowly artist. I'll go back to my brushes now.
Your art lacks decent symmetry. It reminds me of those drawings of Napoleon Dynamite.
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Are you that stupid? They don't manipulate hormones, metabolism or anything like that. You are being ridiculous now.
Doug you are a liar and a supplement charlatan. Just like Andy Haman and everyone else. You guys are fucking frauds to the Nth degree! Give it up loser! We aren't newbie teenagers.
Are YOU that stupid? EVERYTHING that you put into your body manipulates hormones and metabolism. This is a basic medical fact of life.
Foods, vitamins, supplements, etc. All have effects on hormones and metabolism.
Why is Caffeine natural but Ephedrine not natural?
Why is Protein Powder, Creatine or whatever else natural but Pro-Hormones not?
Caffeine, Protein Powder, Creatine, Fried Chicken, All have effects on hormones and metabolism in the body.
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I really wish you could understand that this guy is deceiving you... not to mention his livelihood is based on deceiving people - he sells supplements... which do jack shit.
this has nothing to do with ego... his body looks good - but he's a piece of shit.
but what do I know? I'm a lowly artist. I'll go back to my brushes now.
LOL you really are clueless...Core Nutritionals is a tiny company (right now) and not my day job...I do it for fun. I'm a full time manager at an economic consulting firm. You don't know me at all...we would probably get along fine if you met me at the gym...just you wouldn't be calling me a piece of shit LOL
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personal attacks... tsk tsk. for a man of your advanced years... thats awfully childish.
I'm attacking your art, Not you. I've attacked you plenty already in this thread.
When someone walks among the swine, they can't keep their feet clean!
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The methylhexaneamine is a great drug, yes. I like it. But it is a drug and there's little research on it so you can't state for certain that it's safe. You are a drug user. How ridiculous that your org bans ephedrine, considering how much data there is on it, yet you pimp this untested shit! LOL ::)
Here's the thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109239851&
Yeah I really like 7-keto DHEA and I think it is a great product. I just am always careful when companies throw new abreviations into their proprietary blends (why Core doesn't use prop blends) and wouldnt want to take anything that is hormonal. 7-keto is not banned by INBF/OCB and shouldn't be.
If you want a free sample of Core ZAP...go to www.corenutritionals.com and lcick on sign up....put free sample of ZAP in the comments box :-)
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well I actually get along with most people.. I just despise supplement companies. can you list your product line?
Core MRP
Core PWO
Core ABC
Core ZAP
go to www.corenutritionals.com and click on products. I designed them around what has worked for me! They are all great formulas IMO.
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Since we've gotten off topic, I want to put us back on topic to the OP.
Doug Miller IS natural by any reasonable and conventional definition of the word "natural". His physique CAN and has many times been attained naturally. Anyone doubting this doubts it due to their own bias and envy.
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says you? you say lots of whacked out stuff... so who cares? you're a silly old man who's terribly out of touch.
Says Doug. Says the people who know him. Says anyone who knows anything about Natural Bodybuilding.
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doug never said he's never used any drugs.
You're being vague. EVERYONE uses "drugs".
Doug is "natural". THis doesn't mean that he's never used "drugs", it just means that he's never used steroids or other banned substances. Caffeine is a drug, Ephedra is a drug, Asprin is a drug....But using these doesn't disqualify one from being natural.
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Even Doug's wife puts most getbiggers to shame in the muscle department:
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0060.jpg)
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I'm talking about bodybuilding drugs - and ephedrine should qualify.
I believe he has used steroids... maybe not banned steroids but that's splitting hairs.. and there are many other BB drugs that he could use and go undetected.
the bottom line is that neither of us knows what doug has or has not done. so you cant say - you're not doug... I cant say either.
but the trained eye knows.... at the end of the day what does it matter? we both agree that the guy looks great.
I'm tired of arguing it anyway. There's no way to convince anyone who already has their minds made up.
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Hello, take your multi-vitamin, 3+ grams of vitamin C, g/c/msm, 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight and call it a day. Throw in some melatonin too. Gotta get your b-bing sleep.
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What the hell is this? Whoa! Here's something natural: testosterone. A 3cc syringe loaded with testosterone.
heeeeeeeeeeellll yess 8)
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Damn, liberalismo, you've really fallen hard for this guy. Haven't you?
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I have used the old lean xtreme for contest prep and know that 7-oh is fine for natural competitions but I want to make sure the 5-AT found in the new version of lean xtreme is also okay before I recommend it to any clients. Will this cause a positive urine test?
Thanks,
Doug
Okay thanks guys. I just want to be careful. You can never tell these days. I wanted to be sure before recommending it to a client.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109239851&
I wonder who that client is.
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http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109239851&
I wonder who that client is.
Does this mean the plot thickens? I have no clue what that supplement is or means so I cannot say what any of that means.
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Ok just got back!!!
MuscleMCMannus, Yes I get fat in the off-season, some off-seasons more than others!!! I've been as heavy as 260 lbs. This morning I weighed 215 lbs (Wow... true fat slob ::) ) I put myself out in the open with my pics PRE-CONTEST AND IN MY FAT OFF-SEASON shape and I'll never hide that.
Why don't you post your pictures tough guy? If you look so much better than me, I'll be the first one to give you all the props you deserve.
As to whether I am natural or not. Let me break it down to you and say what I have always said (and you can do a search on my posts in the past). I have never once taken Anabolic Steroids or GH, IGF-1, Slin, or Insulin, OR ANY ILLEGAL bodybuilding supplements.
YES, I have taken OTC pro-hormones, in the past and even today, and I have never once denied or hid that. When M1-T and 4-AD, 1-AD were legal I did take them in the off-season, and I made the organizations that I competed in completely aware of that, never hid it. Had I taken them during pre-contest I would have failed the piss test and not been allowed to compete (EVEN IF IT WAS JUST PRO-HORMONES, there are no exceptions). I've never used anything that was illegal or banned.
Today I take the pro-hormones that are allowed in my organizations (and anyone I compete with or the promoters know about it, I don't hide anything), again I wouldn't take them pre-contest because I wouldn't want to fail the piss test, but I will flat out admit it on the polygraph, and it is allowed by the organizations that I compete in.
So do I consider myself natural? YES I DO, AND more importantly the organizations that I compete in CONSIDER ME Natural, and frankly that is what I care about, I don't care about what some guy on the internet that I have never met thinks. If in your eyes taking OTC Pro-hormones is not natural and the same as using illegal anabolic steroids, then I guess in your eyes I will never be natural, and thats ok by me, that is your view, but the organizatons that I compete in consider me natural and thats what matters to me.
As for the debate about whether these OTC Pro-hormones are the same as real steroids, I wouldn't know I've never done real steroids. I will say that OTC Pro-hormones DO WORK, ESPECIALLY M1-T, god I miss that stuff!!!!! But do they work as well as REAL STEROIDS? I have no clue, but if you do a search on google, you will see lots of people that HAVE used steroids tell you that its nothing close!!!!!
Now, you called me a fat slob, and frankly I really don't care, yeah I have been a fat slob at times in the off-season, especially when I was 260!!!!! But now its my turn.... Post your pic, and I'll be ready to give you all the props that you deserve!!!
Peace!
You're a fukcing idiot. How dumb can ahuman be??
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Does this mean the plot thickens? I have no clue what that supplement is or means so I cannot say what any of that means.
It's the old "a friend of my wants to do a cycle" story. Doug is aware of the fact that it's a public board en he's a well known person in the "natural" industry. So he comes up with this "recommending to a client" stuff.
They are real steroids and many credible people have testified that M1T for example is the strongest oral they have used. Including things like Dianabol and Anadrol. There's a reason M1T was on steroid dealer lists after the ban.
If someone has used them it reveals a certain mindset = you have no problem using hormones as long as they aren't expressly banned. There are a bunch of hormones still not on those lists so there are still ways to drug yourself while claiming "natural". The fact that Doug sells the stimulant means he isn't above using experimental psychoactive drugs either. As long as it's not on the banned list. I did a search on bb.com and he is on there asking if a certain hormone derivative is fine to use and if it will cause you to test positive. He has the druggie mindset.
Very true.
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Dear Mr. 4 Posts,
Hi, I'm bigger than all the people you post pictures of, BIG ACH, and you.
Do you know why all these guys claim natural status?
Because as 'bodybuilders' they are nothing special. Therefore they try to make themselves something, by qualifying themselves as natural.
They think, 'hey I have a physique that would be impressive if I was clean'.
No one would ever discuss them if they competed in the NPC.
Oh, and dudes wife is blatantly a user too.
See, some people here may indeed be foolish enough to buy into this crap, but not all of us.
In closing, Hi doug.
Exactly.
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Aaah, nice to see another "natural" busted.
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It's the old "a friend of my wants to do a cycle" story. Doug is aware of the fact that it's a public board en he's a well known person in the "natural" industry. So he comes up with this "recommending to a client" stuff.
Very true.
Another natural busted? what are you talking about, seriously....the product I asked about is called Lean Xtreme (the new version)...it contains 7-keto/7-OH DHEA which is a none hormonal metabolite of DHEA. The 5-AT in the product was what I was asking about since I didn't know anything about it. If it was hormonal, I was not going to recommend the product to a client of mine. I have taken Lean Xtreme in the past before they added 5-AT to it...I would never recommend a product to a client that I would not take myself. It turns out that 5-AT is another none-hormonal, non-banned, safe metabolite of DHEA. Now I can tell that you all really have no clue. Thanks for helping me with that.
And to the person that said I never claimed to be drug-free WTF are you talking about? I have never taken steroids, GH, inslin, etc, etc. I have been polygraphed many times and have been tested by urine both in and out of season. I believe for my last show I was tested around 18 weeks out and again on show day. I could probably find the urinalysis results. Keep hating.....I will keep growing :-)
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Another natural busted? what are you talking about, seriously....the product I asked about is called Lean Xtreme (the new version)...it contains 7-keto/7-OH DHEA which is a none hormonal metabolite of DHEA. The 5-AT in the product was what I was asking about since I didn't know anything about it. If it was hormonal, I was not going to recommend the product to a client of mine. I have taken Lean Xtreme in the past before they added 5-AT to it...I would never recommend a product to a client that I would not take myself. It turns out that 5-AT is another none-hormonal, non-banned, safe metabolite of DHEA. Now I can tell that you all really have no clue. Thanks for helping me with that.
And to the person that said I never claimed to be drug-free WTF are you talking about? I have never taken steroids, GH, inslin, etc, etc. I have been polygraphed many times and have been tested by urine both in and out of season. I believe for my last show I was tested around 18 weeks out and again on show day. I could probably find the urinalysis results. Keep hating.....I will keep growing :-)
i don't understand the need for you to lie to us all. You are not alone, everyone on that stage uses gear. We are not stupid ( well apart from liberalismo)
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Anyone that claims that M1T, Superdrol, etc. are not real steriods are COMPLETELY mistaken. I have taken the real deal (test, deca) and I have taken Superdrol and I honestly believe Superdrol is more powerful and more dangerous. After 3 weeks on Superdrol I start getting headaches and nose bleeds, but my strenght goes through the roof.
I have alot of Superdrol left but the side effects are so bad I don't take it.
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Anyone that claims that M1T, Superdrol, etc. are not real steriods are COMPLETELY mistaken. I have taken the real deal (test, deca) and I have taken Superdrol and I honestly believe Superdrol is more powerful and more dangerous. After 3 weeks on Superdrol I start getting headaches and nose bleeds, but my strenght goes through the roof.
I have alot of Superdrol left but the side effects are so bad I don't take it.
Superdrol is more powerful than test? ::)
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Superdrol is more powerful than test? ::)
Mg for mg, yes absolutely.
Lets see, standard dose of sd 20mg....standard dose of test 500mg .
No one in their right mind would take 500mg of sd.
Does this make sense yet? You seem to be rather 'thick' up top.
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Mg for mg, yes absolutely.
Lets see, standard dose of sd 20mg....standard dose of test 500mg .
No one in their right mind would take 500mg of sd.
Does this make sense yet? You seem to be rather 'thick' up top.
"Dose for dose" is a bad way of looking at it. They're totally different compounds. A better way of looking it would be the typical dose of superdrol compared to the typical dose of testosterone in a typical steroid cycle. Also, You're forgetting that most Testosterone users only take it once per week, so 500mg per week compared to 200-250 mg of superdrol weekly for a typical use.
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Why is it the bodybuilding side of physical culture is always so full of shit? You guys are the biggest liars. You don't hear powerlifters lying nearly as much as you guys. Why is it?
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Why is it the bodybuilding side of physical culture is always so full of shit? You guys are the biggest liars. You don't hear powerlifters lying nearly as much as you guys. Why is it?
Firstly....Doug isn't lying. His physique is so far from being developed enough for any reasonable person to think he obviously uses steroids, it's comical that anyone would.
Secondly....You must not know anything about how many World Strongmen claim to be natural.
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This is a pretty decent 'natural', identity protected of course.
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Firstly....Doug isn't lying. His physique is so far from being developed enough for any reasonable person to think he obviously uses steroids, it's comical that anyone would.
Secondly....You must not know anything about how many World Strongmen claim to be natural.
Powerlifters are much more honest about their drug use than bodybuilders from my experience just watch Bigger,Stronger, Faster. Strongmen? I don't follow that sport at all. Maybe you're right. Bottomline is Doug is NOT natural. He's full of shit just like you! ;D
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His physique is so far from being developed enough for any reasonable person to think he obviously uses steroids, it's comical that anyone would.
It's not about the amount of muscle per se. It's about the look! Let me ask you this, am I a fool in thinking Sylvester Stallone looked like he juiced for Rambo II for example? He weighed a whopping 155lbs. I could give dozens and dozens of examples like this. I know a guy who juiced when he was 13 years old and weighed 115lbs and he looked juiced! Go look at the bantamweights in the NPC. Do you think they are all natural because their measurements and bodyweights are so modest?
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It's not about the amount of muscle per se. It's about the look! Let me ask you this, am I a fool in thinking Sylvester Stallone looked like he juiced for Rambo II for example? He weighed a whopping 155lbs. I could give dozens and dozens of examples like this. I know a guy who juiced when he was 13 years old and weighed 115lbs and he looked juiced! Go look at the bantamweights in the NPC. Do you think they are all natural because their measurements and bodyweights are so modest?
Stallone admitted he used steroids, that's how we know. That's the ONLY way we know. If Stallone were 230lbs and ripped, THEN you could say he obviously uses steroids.
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Firstly....Doug isn't lying. His physique is so far from being developed enough for any reasonable person to think he obviously uses steroids, it's comical that anyone would.
Secondly....You must not know anything about how many World Strongmen claim to be natural.
Who said he obviously uses steroids? And we're not any reasonable people here, we're more reasonable, and realistic. We're just saying he's not as natural as you think he is. But then again, you're in love with him and love is blind.
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Stallone admitted he used steroids, that's how we know. That's the ONLY way we know. If Stallone were 230lbs and ripped, THEN you could say he obviously uses steroids.
You are truly clueless. A drugged physique just looks different. There are a ton of signs. Like swelling of the cranial muscles, disproportionate hypertrophy of trap/shoulder area, skin texture and body fat pattern and even things small things like sweating pattern. You can tell a heavy juicer without even seeing his body just by looking at his face. BTW, Stallone never admitted to steroid use back then... he talked about using a special amino acid supplement. :D
Take a look at this fool. If you can't tell he's on steroids you're clueless. He's small by bodybuilding standards but there's NO doubt he's on the juice.
(http://images.smarter.com/blogs/carrottop.jpg)
Same thing with Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler and numerous previous movies. Put his stats on paper and it's not obvious he's a juicer but once you see him it's very obvious.
Here's another
(http://cityrag.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/01/danny_bonaduce.jpg)
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"Dose for dose" is a bad way of looking at it. They're totally different compounds. A better way of looking it would be the typical dose of superdrol compared to the typical dose of testosterone in a typical steroid cycle. Also, You're forgetting that most Testosterone users only take it once per week, so 500mg per week compared to 200-250 mg of superdrol weekly for a typical use.
Uh what did you think those numbers meant?
Those are the typical doses used in a cycle.
500mg ew of test vs 140mg of superdrol.
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Uh what did you think those numbers meant?
Those are the typical doses used in a cycle.
500mg ew of test vs 140mg of superdrol.
I'm sorry...I'm ignoring your B.S. until you post a picture of yourself backing up your BULLSHIT claims of being "Bigger than anyone posted in this thread".
Mr. Internet bodybuilder.
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This is a pretty decent 'natural', identity protected of course.
Good looking guy right there.
;)
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I'm sorry...I'm ignoring your B.S. until you post a picture of yourself backing up your BULLSHIT claims of being "Bigger than anyone posted in this thread".
Mr. Internet bodybuilder.
Thats fine, I remain not caring what you think about me, as your brutal stupidity has been full blown throughout this thread.
Your like a kid on the brink of finding out Santa isnt real, its pathetic.
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You are truly clueless. A drugged physique just looks different. There are a ton of signs. Like swelling of the cranial muscles, disproportionate hypertrophy of trap/shoulder area, skin texture and body fat pattern and even things small things like sweating pattern. You can tell a heavy juicer without even seeing his body just by looking at his face.
Take a look at this fool. If you can't tell he's on steroids you're clueless. He's small by bodybuilding standards but there's NO doubt he's on the juice.
(http://images.smarter.com/blogs/carrottop.jpg)
Same thing with Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler and numerous previous movies. Put his stats on paper and it's not obvious he's a juicer but once you see him it's very obvious.
1. I see no similarities between Carrot Tops physique and Doug Miller's.
2. Carrottop's physique could be attained naturally. I don't know if it was in his case, I don't know anything about him or if he's admitted it or what.
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anyone who hasn't failed a drug test is clean. even if they claim they used it they are lying without proof.
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2. Carrottop's physique could be attained naturally. I don't know if it was in his case, I don't know anything about him or if he's admitted it or what.
You don't look like you're on steroids if you're not on steroids. So no, carrot top wouldn't ever look like that without steroids. Carrot Top doesn't need to admit to anything, it's obvious.
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You don't look like you're on steroids if you're not on steroids. So no, carrot top wouldn't ever look like that without steroids. Carrot Top doesn't need to admit to anything, it's obvious.
Anyone with even a mild amount of muscle and definition is on Steroids according to the pencil necks on getbig.
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Core MRP
Core PWO
Core ABC
Core ZAP
go to www.corenutritionals.com and click on products. I designed them around what has worked for me! They are all great formulas IMO.
Doug,
How do you feel knowing that Liberalschmoe has a bottle of Jergens out while he sits here and defends you?
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Anyone with even a mild amount of muscle and definition is on Steroids according to the pencil necks on getbig.
When will you get it? it's not about the amount of muscle!
And everyone on this thread is a pencil neck? Many in this thread have posted pics. Have you seen hazbin's pics for example?
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When will you get it? it's not about the amount of muscle!
And everyone on this thread is a pencil neck? Many in this thread have posted pics. Have you seen hazbin's pics for example?
remember when i said i did juice? sorry guys, i lied. i am a drug free liar. i just said i was on drugs to be cool. lifetime natural, just need help with my storytelling. i'm not bald either, i have a beautiful head of hair- i lied about that too. sorry about that :-[ how could i be on drugs? i've never even taken a drug test to prove it.
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1. I see no similarities between Carrot Tops physique and Doug Miller's.
2. Carrottop's physique could be attained naturally. I don't know if it was in his case, I don't know anything about him or if he's admitted it or what.
No Doug Miller's physique looks even better than Carrot Tops and Carrot Top is juiced to the fucking gills. It's not about the size of someone. It's the look muscle takes on when roids are flowing through a person's body. That extreme vascularity throughout the traps, delts, biceps, and legs is not NATURAL! Like I told your ass in another thread go flip through ANY muscle magazine from the 40's and 50's and you'll see what a truly natural phsyique looks like. But you're probably the same dumbass who will say oh well training and nutrition has come a long way! ::) If anything guys back in the day eat way better than guys nowadays and trained just as hard, just as smart and probably more intuitively.
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Uh what did you think those numbers meant?
Those are the typical doses used in a cycle.
500mg ew of test vs 140mg of superdrol.
The 140mg of Superdrol is more powerful than 500mg of test (IMO). Guys claiming that they are natural but have done Superdrol and/or M1T are kidding themselves, they are not natural.
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this is what natural physiques look like dipshits!
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/armandtanny/armandtanny9.jpg
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/davidasnis3.jpg
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/alexanderaustopchuck1.jpg
http://www.musclememory.com/show.php?a=Ross,+Clarence
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/sigmundklein1.jpg
Sigmund Klein was without a DOUBT a natural bodybuilder. One of the best for his era. Are you going to tell me that these Layne Norton and Doug Miller jokers are harder working? Better eating, and at a YOUNGER age stronger, bigger, and more vascular than the best of the 1930s???????????? LMAO! You guys are really morons.
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HOW DID HAZBIN GET PULLED INTO THIS ,HE/IS/WAS A COMPETITIVE BBER AND CONDITIONED TO THE HILT ,SICK VASCULARITY.OF COURSE HE USED AND HE KNOWS HIS 2 CENTS.
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HOW DID HAZBIN GET PULLED INTO THIS ,HE/IS/WAS A COMPETITIVE BBER AND CONDITIONED TO THE HILT ,SICK VASCULARITY.OF COURSE HE USED AND HE KNOWS HIS 2 CENTS.
i can't be a steroid user!! i've never even taken a steroid test, never mind failing one. who cares if i admitted it, i can't prove it so i must be clean all these years. man, do i feel dumb :-\
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I dont think you even lift at all.
hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, dude have you even ever seen a pic of Hazbin? the dude was a compeitior at one point and was like 240 onstage, dude has one of the freakiest pairs of forearms you'll ever see, absolutely monstrous upper body as well.
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hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, dude have you even ever seen a pic of Hazbin? the dude was a compeitior at one point and was like 240 onstage, dude has one of the freakiest pairs of forearms you'll ever see, absolutely monstrous upper body as well.
Some of the most vascular forearms I have ever seen for sure.
Hazbins a tank.
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Some of the most vascular forearms I have ever seen for sure.
Hazbins a tank.
he's probably the most jacked non pro on this board for sure.
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where is hazbins pics ?
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he's probably the most jacked non pro on this board for sure.
Don't worry about this James001 fella, I simply asked him to clarify a statement he made on another thread a few minutes ago and all of the sudden he thinks he is some badass intellectual Mensa-type who can go around insulting people at the drop of a hat.
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to be fair bench press wasnt even invented in the 1930's
and diet is the biggest diff between contest lean then and now.
anyway i never fully read thread so i dont know whats being argued so ill stay out lol
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he's probably the most jacked non pro on this board for sure.
Youre not exactly a featherweight yourself, QO.
;D
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to be fair bench press wasnt even invented in the 1930's
and diet is the biggest diff between contest lean then and now.
anyway i never fully read thread so i dont know whats being argued so ill stay out lol
Jackasses are arguing that People bodybuilding naturally in the 30s and 40s are as big as anyone can naturally get and that nutrition, supplements and modern equipment has no effect.
They are also viciously arguing that Layne Norton and Doug Miller are not natural.
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Jackasses are arguing that People bodybuilding naturally in the 30s and 40s are as big as anyone can naturally get and that nutrition, supplements and modern equipment has no effect.
They are also viciously arguing that Layne Norton and Doug Miller are not natural.
Hate to break the news, but the Tooth Fairy isnt real either.
Sorry.
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hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, dude have you even ever seen a pic of Hazbin? the dude was a compeitior at one point and was like 240 onstage, dude has one of the freakiest pairs of forearms you'll ever see, absolutely monstrous upper body as well.
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic and going along with what hazbin was saying.
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i doubt that we peaked in terms of bbuilding in the 1930's, no way in hell.
layne i believe could easily be nattie. Doug if he is is very very very gifted. Natties at 260lbs and strong as a bull is not that rare. However that thick look and that combo of cuts in doug is rare as hens teeth.
Rob Hope is an incredible natural bbuilder.
I hope that they both are. Something to strive for
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Jackasses are arguing that People bodybuilding naturally in the 30s and 40s are as big as anyone can naturally get and that nutrition, supplements and modern equipment has no effect.
They are also viciously arguing that Layne Norton and Doug Miller are not natural.
Haha no that is not the entire point of this debate. Major slant there buddy! You're claiming Layne Norton and Doug Miller are natural. Implying that at 27 years old what took bodybuilders decades to build (i.e. Jack Lalanne at 40) has taken guys like Norton a few years and Norton still looks ten times more ripped and vascular in contest prep. That's absurd. And you're also claiming it's ok for "natural" bodybuilders to use ephedrine and caffeine pills and claim they are natural.
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i doubt that we peaked in terms of bbuilding in the 1930's, no way in hell.
layne i believe could easily be nattie. Doug if he is is very very very gifted. Natties at 260lbs and strong as a bull is not that rare. However that thick look and that combo of cuts in doug is rare as hens teeth.
Rob Hope is an incredible natural bbuilder.
I hope that they both are. Something to strive for
No one ever said bodybuilding peaked in the 1930's. That's absurd. And that was not the premise of this debate.
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"... if Stallone didn't tell us he used steroids, we wouldn't know..."
>:( I must now kill myself.
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i doubt that we peaked in terms of bbuilding in the 1930's, no way in hell.
layne i believe could easily be nattie. Doug if he is is very very very gifted. Natties at 260lbs and strong as a bull is not that rare. However that thick look and that combo of cuts in doug is rare as hens teeth.
Rob Hope is an incredible natural bbuilder.
I hope that they both are. Something to strive for
HAHA Oh Brother.............Rob Hope is natural? What the fuck is wrong with you European guys? Are you all really that dumb? Come on Goudy where's that common sense I thought you had!
http://www.247bodybuilding.com/rob_hope.htm
If anyone thinks Hope is natural they are fucking clueless! This thread is a joke!
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ACH also admitted to using M1T and Superdrol, yet he still claims 'natural' status.
See the problem with 'naturals'.
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HAHA Oh Brother.............Rob Hope is natural? What the fuck is wrong with you European guys? Are you all really that dumb? Come on Goudy where's that common sense I thought you had!
http://www.247bodybuilding.com/rob_hope.htm
If anyone thinks Hope is natural they are fucking clueless! This thread is a joke!
you must be bitter or have god awful genetics.
I like you and your posts seem usually well informed etc. However...
Bear in mind there are like 5 nattues in the world whosestatus is questioned. Its not like the IFBB where everyone is clearly on juice. I like to give benefit of doubt as much as i can.
I will stand by my point
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you must be bitter or have god awful genetics.
I like you and your posts seem usually well informed etc. However...
Bear in mind there are like 5 nattues in the world whosestatus is questioned. Its not like the IFBB where everyone is clearly on juice. I like to give benefit of doubt as much as i can.
I will stand by my point
Yes, it is.
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skip lacour, rob hope, jeff willet, doug, layne and jrod
Only naturals in world out of million competitive naturals who people debate about.
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skip lacour, rob hope, jeff willet, doug, layne and jrod
Only naturals in world out of million competitive naturals who people debate about.
Serge Nubret is natural, he even said so.
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Yohnnie Shambourger was natural...even did the Masters O...
::)
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skip lacour, rob hope, jeff willet, doug, layne and jrod
Only naturals in world out of million competitive naturals who people debate about.
Goudy my genetics don't suck although I'm 6'5 and even if they did or didn't that would have no bearing on the discussion. I'm not bitter. I'm happy with my physique and where I'm headed. In fact I'm injury free at 29 and my best years are ahead of me.
IF you believe Skip LaCour was natural you're nuts! Same thing with Jeff Willet. Come on bro!
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Goudy my genetics don't suck although I'm 6'5 and even if they did or didn't that would have no bearing on the discussion. I'm not bitter. I'm happy with my physique and where I'm headed. In fact I'm injury free at 29 and my best years are ahead of me.
IF you believe Skip LaCour was natural you're nuts! Same thing with Jeff Willet. Come on bro!
You're not 6'5".
Your genetics DO suck.
You're a POSER just like TacoBell.
You're likely a fatass or a skinny asshole sitting at their computer passing judgement on people superior to you.
If you are 6'5", You probably have the physique of a stick figure.
I'm calling you out to post your pictures and prove your claims. You and TacoBell.
Both of you refuse to post your recent pictures. Why? Because you're nobodies sitting at home pretending to be bodybuilders, judging the top naturals claiming that they must ALL use steroids, saying they are ALL liars. All because you're physique is crap and you're jealous.
If my physique was anything close to the top naturals, Even if I used steroids, I wouldn't refuse to post it. If I were concerned with my Identiy I would distort my face a bit or something like that.
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You're not 6'5".
Your genetics DO suck.
You're a POSER just like TacoBell.
You're likely a fatass or a skinny asshole sitting at their computer passing judgement on people superior to you.
If you are 6'5", You probably have the physique of a stick figure.
I'm calling you out to post your pictures and prove your claims. You and TacoBell.
Both of you refuse to post your recent pictures. Why? Because you're nobodies sitting at home pretending to be bodybuilders, judging the top naturals claiming that they must ALL use steroids, saying they are ALL liars. All because you're physique is crap and you're jealous.
If my physique was anything close to the top naturals, Even if I used steroids, I wouldn't refuse to post it. If I were concerned with my Identiy I would distort my face a bit or something like that.
You're right. I'm only 5'6. I look like a bag of smashed assholes. I have the muscle of a 12 year old girl. In fact your grandmother probably can lift more than I can on her worst day. But Layne Norton AINT NATURAL no matter what you say! Sucka!
And hell no I'm not posting my pics on getbig......photoshop capital of the internet. 10 years from now they'd probably end up on some homo site!
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You're right. I'm only 5'6. I look like a bag of smashed assholes. I have the muscle of a 12 year old girl. In fact your grandmother probably can lift more than I can on her worst day. But Layne Norton AINT NATURAL no matter what you say! Sucka!
And hell no I'm not posting my pics on getbig......photoshop capital of the internet. 10 years from now they'd probably end up on some homo site!
Pathetic... ::)
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Pathetic... ::)
;D Seriously bro I really don't have anything against you. Layne isn't natural. That's the bottomline. You're just naive about bodybuilding. No biggie bro! You're probably a good American!
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;D Seriously bro I really don't have anything against you. Layne isn't natural. That's the bottomline. You're just naive about bodybuilding. No biggie bro! You're probably a good American!
Layne is natural.
Doug is natural.
You're a fraud.
End of story.
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Layne is a liar.
Doug is a schmoe.
I'm a fraud.
End of story.
;D
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Layne is natural.
Doug is natural.
You're a fraud.
End of story.
Meltdown
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&playnext=1&index=9
Yeah real natural! ::)
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&playnext=1&index=9
Yeah real natural! ::)
100% dandelion root :D
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Yeah I can get as shredded as him with caffeine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
&NR=1
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100% dandelion root :D
Nah dude that's too hardcore even for these naturals.
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Haha 6-8 years ago you could legally buy 'pain free orals' (injectable) pro-hormones....
4ad cyp, 1test cyp......
There were tons of them, and they were all the rage....
All natural!
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;)
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I think EVERYONE should post pics... that would be fun.
kill yourself, no1 likes you.
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Doug admits to using various USP Labs pro hormones like anabolic pump, prime etc... While he may not be using illegal steroids, he is damn sure using plenty of pro hormones and precursors...
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&feature=related
"Ive tried all the herbal natural test boosters" LOL
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&feature=related
"Natural woman" doing walking lunges with 85's LOL
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Test boosters include natural compounds. They aren't anabolic steroids.
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&feature=related
"Natural woman" doing walking lunges with 85's LOL
i've never seen a measly pair of 85's look so huge in someones hands. :o
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i've never seen a measly pair of 85's look so huge in someones hands. :o
I'd be surprised if you could curl 55s.
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I'd be surprised if you could curl 55s.
never do db curls and when i do i do them with my palm facing up the whole time so yes 55's is about my limit, 85's is chickenshit weight for most other db exercises though.
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I'd be surprised if you could curl 55s.
An owning machine!!!!
I wish I had your quick wit
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never do db curls and when i do i do them with my palm facing up the whole time so yes 55's is about my limit, 85's is chickenshit weight for most other db exercises though.
If your maximum curl is 55lbs then probably the only exercise where 85lbs would even seem significantly light would be rows. But even then, with a 55lb dumbell curl max, it would not be an easy feat.
So based on this alone, My guess is that you don't lift many weights. Otherwise you would have known this.
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If your maximum curl is 55lbs then probably the only exercise where 85lbs would even seem significantly light would be rows. But even then, with a 55lb dumbell curl max, it would not be an easy feat.
So based on this alone, My guess is that you don't lift many weights. Otherwise you would have known this.
What about Quakers 1000's of posts on the Training Board over the years.... what do you attribute that to?
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If your maximum curl is 55lbs then probably the only exercise where 85lbs would even seem significantly light would be rows. But even then, with a 55lb dumbell curl max, it would not be an easy feat.
So based on this alone, My guess is that you don't lift many weights. Otherwise you would have known this.
hahahahha, sounds like we've got another internet monster on board, why don't you regale us with your tales of 405 for reps bench presses and 600 pound squats for reps? ;D
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hahahahha, sounds like we've got another internet monster on board, why don't you regale us with your tales of 405 for reps bench presses and 600 pound squats for reps? ;D
Translation = he is a weak bitter old man who probably eeked out 4 shaky reps with 185 pounds on the bench press in his "so called" prime
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Translation = he is a weak bitter old man who probably eeked out 4 shaky reps with 185 pounds on the bench press in his "so called" prime
hahahaha, the man is 6'0" and 165 pounds though, can you imagine how huge, ripped and intimidating he is in person? ;D
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hahahaha, the man is 6'0" and 165 pounds though, can you imagine how huge, ripped and intimidating he is in person? ;D
Yeah he's probably the same bitter old man you see at the gym, who straps on a couple 2.5's on the sides on the barbell and then proceeds to take up the bench for an hour and a half busting out half-reps and forcing all those "ungrateful youngsters" to stand around patiently, because they don't want to offend the decrepit piece of shit while he is being a complete jackass.
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Yeah he's probably the same bitter old man you see at the gym, who straps on a couple 2.5's on the sides on the barbell and then proceeds to take up the bench for an hour and a half busting out half-reps and forcing all those "ungrateful youngsters" to stand around patiently, because they don't want to offend the decrepit piece of shit while he is being a complete jackass.
hahahahhaa, or the creepy old pervert who does two sets of side bends holding a 25 pound plate and then spends two hours in the locker room naked. ;D
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hahahahhaa, or the creepy old pervert who does two sets of side bends holding a 25 pound plate and then spends two hours in the locker room naked. ;D
haha, Yeah I bet he also stands directly inthe middle of the locker room, butt naked, body hair covering every inch and coming out of ever crevice of his saggy old man body...... Loudly discussing politics so he can feel likea big shot and boring everyone in the locker room to tears, with his 80 year old buddy who is also naked..... close enough to where their dicks are practically touching
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haha, Yeah I bet he also stands directly inthe middle of the locker room, butt naked, body hair covering every inch and coming out of ever crevice of his saggy old man body...... Loudly discussing politics so he can feel likea big shot and boring everyone in the locker room to tears, with his 80 year old buddy who is also naked..... close enough to where their dicks are practically touching
You forgot the part where he uses the hair dryer to dry his crack. :-\
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You forgot the part where he uses the hair dryer to dry his crack. :-\
:)
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I could bench press 320lbs in my prime. I got 2 and a half reps when I did that.
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I could bench press 220lbs in my prime. I got one half rep when I did that.
fixed
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I could bench press 320lbs in my prime. I got 2 and a half reps when I did that.
hahahahaha, ahh the time tested "in my prime". ;D
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I could bench press 320lbs in my prime. I got 2 and a half reps when I did that.
I am in my prime now and bench 305, fuck i hate losing to a pussy liberal ;)
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love these old lying naturals....... love them even better when they give u the inside scoop on the old diets they used to use
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This is the natural ideal in my opinion:
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I believe Doug Miller is "natural" if by natural you mean he isn't using ILLEGAL drugs or those that you need a script for...
But the guy takes a thousand different pills that you can buy in any health food store. Testosterone boosters, P-slin (some knock off of insulin im sure) etc... I'm sure half the things he takes, are probably LESS healthy for him, than tried and true gear, but to each their own.
I dont see why so many people doubt this guy.
-A DUB
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U should be a doctor. U can make dead things become alive!
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I am a doctor.
-A DUB
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Achieving a physique like that naturally (if done right) isn't impossible. He's very ripped, but his size isn't at the point where you say he clearly uses Steroids.
A big problem is people who lift weights and don't get results they aim for like to claim that anyone more muscular must be on steroids, especially since a lot of people who use steroids for years never get anywhere near this physique level. It's mainly an issue of jealousy.
I tend to take people's word if their physiques don't shout "Steroids", and only a NancyBoy would ever say that this physique shouts steroids.
What a kickass post. So true. Anyone with average to below genetics just cant believe how anyone can be bigger than them. Must be on juice! This guys build is awesome but nothing that blows me away.
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I believe Doug Miller is "natural" if by natural you mean he isn't using ILLEGAL drugs or those that you need a script for...
But the guy takes a thousand different pills that you can buy in any health food store. Testosterone boosters, P-slin (some knock off of insulin im sure) etc... I'm sure half the things he takes, are probably LESS healthy for him, than tried and true gear, but to each their own.
I dont see why so many people doubt this guy.
-A DUB
Are you one of Bob and his 'co-workers' in-network physicians ? ;D
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how did I miss this thread back in February? great pics on the first page. JMT
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I think this thread is a good example of how jealousy can be blinding.
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I think this thread is a good example of how jealousy can be blinding.
or how naive can some people be 8)
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or how naive can some people be 8)
Keep dreaming.
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whats really funny is the 'natural' on the 1st page has better pecs than phil heath ;D
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This physique is quite natural. The problem is that people see these pictures, and they are good pictures, and think this guy is as big as the pictures put him out to be. IN reality it is just good lighting and a good pump day. Add to that the fact that Doug lives bodybuilding every day of his life and has for years and years. That IS his life.
- We've had Doug himself, and numerous people who know him personally, come on here and attest and confirm that he is natural and he is an honest guy.
- We've posted pictures of guys who were of very high levels of musculature who lifted before steroids existed.
- We have established that jealously and the green monster of envy rears its ugly head in this thread and people refuse to admit he is natural because of their own failures.
- We've established that Doug lives bodybuilding day and night.
- We've established that most people on getbig aren't even real bodybuilders in any sense of the word.
- And we've established that all of the people doubting Doug are either 1. Twinks or 2. Steroid users. And thus are either jealous because they can't get that muscular or jealous because they can't get that muscular naturally.
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This physique is quite natural. The problem is that people see these pictures, and they are good pictures, and think this guy is as big as the pictures put him out to be. IN reality it is just good lighting and a good pump day. Add to that the fact that Doug lives bodybuilding every day of his life and has for years and years. That IS his life.
- We've had Doug himself, and numerous people who know him personally, come on here and attest and confirm that he is natural and he is an honest guy.
- We've posted pictures of guys who were of very high levels of musculature who lifted before steroids existed.
- We have established that jealously and the green monster of envy rears its ugly head in this thread and people refuse to admit he is natural because of their own failures.
- We've established that Doug lives bodybuilding day and night.
- We've established that most people on getbig aren't even real bodybuilders in any sense of the word.
- And we've established that all of the people doubting Doug are either 1. Twinks or 2. Steroid users. And thus are either jealous because they can't get that muscular or jealous because they can't get that muscular naturally.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahaha
i bet you're the kind of guy that thinks muscletech is responsible for jay cutlers mass too ::)
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This physique is quite natural. The problem is that people see these pictures, and they are good pictures, and think this guy is as big as the pictures put him out to be. IN reality it is just good lighting and a good pump day.
yeah, what ever. whether he's natural or not, that he's not been on the cover of dozens of magazines, he needs a better agent.
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as natural as pamela anderson's breasts
E
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as natural as pamela anderson's breasts
E
8)
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8)
so stavi, are you back on the "sauce" too?
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so stavi, are you back on the "sauce" too?
Actually I just got off last week.
I do 10 on, 10 off
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Actually I just got off last week.
I do 10 on, 10 off
so you've just gone natural ;D
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so you've just gone natural ;D
As natural as the "beef" in the double bigmac I am eating right now ;D
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As natural as the "beef" in the double bigmac I am eating right now ;D
haha, good for you
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Not
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This physique is quite natural. The problem is that people see these pictures, and they are good pictures, and think this guy is as big as the pictures put him out to be. IN reality it is just good lighting and a good pump day. Add to that the fact that Doug lives bodybuilding every day of his life and has for years and years. That IS his life.
- We've had Doug himself, and numerous people who know him personally, come on here and attest and confirm that he is natural and he is an honest guy.
- We've posted pictures of guys who were of very high levels of musculature who lifted before steroids existed.
- We have established that jealously and the green monster of envy rears its ugly head in this thread and people refuse to admit he is natural because of their own failures.
- We've established that Doug lives bodybuilding day and night.
- We've established that most people on getbig aren't even real bodybuilders in any sense of the word.
- And we've established that all of the people doubting Doug are either 1. Twinks or 2. Steroid users. And thus are either jealous because they can't get that muscular or jealous because they can't get that muscular naturally.
So what is Santa Claus bringing you for Xmas Liberalschmoe?
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Pic from last month's Yorton Cup. natural bodybuilding at it's finest
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This physique is quite natural. The problem is that people see these pictures, and they are good pictures, and think this guy is as big as the pictures put him out to be. IN reality it is just good lighting and a good pump day. Add to that the fact that Doug lives bodybuilding every day of his life and has for years and years. That IS his life.
- We've had Doug himself, and numerous people who know him personally, come on here and attest and confirm that he is natural and he is an honest guy.
- We've posted pictures of guys who were of very high levels of musculature who lifted before steroids existed.
- We have established that jealously and the green monster of envy rears its ugly head in this thread and people refuse to admit he is natural because of their own failures.
- We've established that Doug lives bodybuilding day and night.
- We've established that most people on getbig aren't even real bodybuilders in any sense of the word.
- And we've established that all of the people doubting Doug are either 1. Twinks or 2. Steroid users. And thus are either jealous because they can't get that muscular or jealous because they can't get that muscular naturally.
Dude put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger , you are as deluded as Goodrum and Silly Billy Guns combined ::)
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Actually I just got off last week.
I do 10 on, 10 off
any pics ?
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Pic from last month's Yorton Cup. natural bodybuilding at it's finest
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=264309.0;attach=351796;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=264309.0;attach=351665;image)
natural my ass.. he looks awesome though.
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This physique is quite natural.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=264309.0;attach=351665;image)
y o u ' r e a n a s s h o l e.
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the guy takes all kinds of test boosters, p-slin and gobs of other pills from shady "natural" supplement companies. it really isnt hard to believe he isn't using "real gear".
-A DUB
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Whatever his status is..one has to admit he looks rock hard and shredded..shows no sign of water retention or gyno. If he is using something hormonal...he's probably not hurting his health too bad or screwing himself up...and he's passing the drug test. I think he's pretty impressive and most people would rather look like him than an IFBB pro. Honestly, if you could look like this guy without having to shrink your nuts, screw with your heart..shut down your test or.... look like an IFBB pro and suffer all the sides that go with it..which would you choose?
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Whatever his status is..one has to admit he looks rock hard and shredded..shows no sign of water retention or gyno. If he is using something hormonal...he's probably not hurting his health too bad or screwing himself up...
You should know that the compounds which don't cause water retention or gyno very often are often the harshest. Which is healthier, Winstrol or Testosterone? Which is more likely to bloat you and give you gyno?
the guy takes all kinds of test boosters, p-slin and gobs of other pills from shady "natural" supplement companies. it really isnt hard to believe he isn't using "real gear".
-A DUB
What kind of doctor is it you claim to be?
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one thing that makes me irritated is when people lie about natural status. i dont care if people use drugs, its up to them, but dont claim your natural if you arent. also dont like when drug users make up their own definition of natural.
further..being clean and natural isnt the same thing
as a natural limit is basically
heigh in CM-100 (or 95*..) = limit at competition body fat %
*in extreme good shape but not competition empty
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also wanna say thati know people they say they weight so and so many KGs as naturals but these guys underestimate how much they have to loose to be in competition body fat% or close to it.
i know a guy he is like 115kg and 190cm tall...he is very big and has a huge frame and is very strong..he thinks he will be 100kg in compeition shape (he is natural)..i tell him..you underestimate how much fat you need to loose to get down to 6-7%...not to mention 5%. he will be 90kg MAX. and that is if he mentally can handle getting smaller , which many people cant.
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it's unsulting that I should believe he's natural
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You should know that the compounds which don't cause water retention or gyno very often are often the harshest. Which is healthier, Winstrol or Testosterone? Which is more likely to bloat you and give you gyno?
Anavar or Primobolin in small doses for brief duration aren't very harsh and do not produce virtually any water retention. Again, I'm not convinced that he uses any of these compounds..just saying he doesn't have the look of a heavy drug user.
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also wanna say thati know people they say they weight so and so many KGs as naturals but these guys underestimate how much they have to loose to be in competition body fat% or close to it.
i know a guy he is like 115kg and 190cm tall...he is very big and has a huge frame and is very strong..he thinks he will be 100kg in compeition shape (he is natural)..i tell him..you underestimate how much fat you need to loose to get down to 6-7%...not to mention 5%. he will be 90kg MAX. and that is if he mentally can handle getting smaller , which many people cant.
Truth
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6-IIXAF5HOE/RoGs4CKYNcI/AAAAAAAAAcg/s_MBdyMFDXA/s400/not_this_shit_again.jpg)
I believe Doug (a good friend of mine) is natural. Dude competes at like 185 or so, is that REALLy unattainable naturally to you guys? and he lives and sleeps bodybuilding, takes obssession to a new level, seriously!
But I know none of you guys will believe me so whatever!
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I believe Doug (a good friend of mine) is natural. Dude competes at like 185 or so, is that REALLy unattainable naturally to you guys? and he lives and sleeps bodybuilding, takes obssession to a new level, seriously!
you can be big naturally. you can be ripped naturally. but to be both, especially for any length of time, takes performance enhancing drugs.
to put it another way, being ripped is very catabolic. to be ripped for any length of time, like he seems to be, why hasn't he lost all his mass?
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Ha ha natural ::) But I would like to take that chick's fatigues off and eat her pussy.
Very well said.
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Ha ha natural ::) But I would like to take that chick's fatigues off and eat her pussy.
Very well put.
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Very well said.
Very well put.
Are there things?
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To me, the ideal natural physique is SevereManTaste / Sebastian / Sevastase / WingedLion / The Winged Gypsy:
(http://www.stalkerzone.dk/upload/SevereManTaste.jpg)
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Dont make me laugh with the 'he says hes natural, and people who know him personally have backed this up' rubbish, NONE of my closest friends would know ive juiced so that point is useless ;D
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Wait you mean if we ask Doug's mom if he juices, she will say "Absolutely not?" LOL
I personally believe he isnt using steroids, but he is using a pharmacy of other "natural" supplements.
"natural anabolc" lame...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4586104981438356978&ei=0aEuS_qqNoiSqgKWh8m8BQ&q=doug+miller&hl=en#
-A DUB
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To me, the ideal natural physique is SevereManTaste / Sebastian / Sevastase / WingedLion / The Winged Gypsy:
(http://www.stalkerzone.dk/upload/SevereManTaste.jpg)
This is what 90% of Getbig must strive for. No wonder they claim Doug is a roider.
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I believe Doug (a good friend of mine) is natural. Dude competes at like 185 or so, is that REALLy unattainable naturally to you guys? and he lives and sleeps bodybuilding, takes obssession to a new level, seriously!
But I know none of you guys will believe me so whatever!
Bullshit doesn't fly here at getbig.
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Big deal he eats sleeps and lives bodybuilding blah blah blah.Probably most of us who are serious about weightlifting/bodybuilding have done that for a while ( me included ) and i can say i never looked like that natural, so if its true its damn good genetics, nothing about hard work or diet etc, they are only very small pieces of the equation
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who is the babe on the first page...i could careless about the musclehead...i'd eat her turds! :o
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lol at natural
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you can be big naturally. you can be ripped naturally. but to be both, especially for any length of time, takes performance enhancing drugs.
to put it another way, being ripped is very catabolic. to be ripped for any length of time, like he seems to be, why hasn't he lost all his mass?
Dude he is not contest ripped all year round??? just for shows? these pics you guys are posting up he weighs like 180-185 in them! and that is contest shape!