it's another word for "bullshit to hide the use of 3+ grams of gear"...
most people who say that say "you have to increase the weights every week"... and when you ask them "if i rest 60 secs between sets of 135 lbs of bench press... and the next week i rest only 55 secs and i can do the same weight, is that progressive overload?" they say no... ::)
this guy does rear delt raises with 20 lb dumbbells, and flat benches 90 lb dumbbells...
"progressive overload" my ass
An natural will reach his strength potential within about 3 years of training. Strength gains from there are minimal. Progressive overload sounds great, but there's no way someone with 15 years of training is upping their weights every workout.not every workout. Every couple months. Using the nickels and dimes.
not every workout. Every couple months. Using the nickels and dimes.
Progressive overload is the only way to guarantee you keep growing
not every workout. Every couple months. Using the nickels and dimes.
Progressive overload is the only way to guarantee you keep growing
sorry... i have to disagree... i come from a country where if you train heavy, you're rendered as an idiot who wants to hurt himself.
upping the dose is the only way to guarantee you keep growing...
when someone says "yeah, progressive overload man... but you have to eat more... and you have to gradually raise your dose with time when you plateau for 2 years... it's the weights that give you the muscle, but the food and aas is what helps you get stronger... if you don't try to get stronger, you don't grow!"
getting stronger is a sure fire way to ensure you'll get injured... up the dose, you get hungrier, you get bigger... no need to increase the weight... i assure you.
I know A LOT of big guys who look like they can easily bench 455 lbs, but they fail at 12 reps with 275 or 315...
sorry... i have to disagree... i come from a country where if you train heavy, you're rendered as an idiot who wants to hurt himself.
upping the dose is the only way to guarantee you keep growing...
when someone says "yeah, progressive overload man... but you have to eat more... and you have to gradually raise your dose with time when you plateau for 2 years... it's the weights that give you the muscle, but the food and aas is what helps you get stronger... if you don't try to get stronger, you don't grow!"
getting stronger is a sure fire way to ensure you'll get injured... up the dose, you get hungrier, you get bigger... no need to increase the weight... i assure you.
I know A LOT of big guys who look like they can easily bench 455 lbs, but they fail at 12 reps with 275 or 315...
not every workout. Every couple months. Using the nickels and dimes.
Progressive overload is the only way to guarantee you keep growing
progressive overload:
progressively overloading your receptors with more and more anabolic compounds to incur further muscle growth.
:D
whoever believes 'progressive overload' is the way to 'bigger muscles' needs to stop drinking the koolaid, regurgitating everything they read on line and gain a little life experience in the gym.
then they'll reaiise all that matters is upping the dosage from where it was from your last cycle to grow further from where that last cycle left you, because nobody gets bigger using less, or the same amount of gear than the cycle before.
this is fact. progressive overload my ass.
I dropped my dosage from 1500mg to 500mg and started focusing on building strength and have been growing better than ever. :)
I dropped my dosage from 1500mg to 500mg and started focusing on building strength and have been growing better than ever. :)
not every workout. Every couple months. Using the nickels and dimes.
Progressive overload is the only way to guarantee you keep growing
I dropped my dosage from 1500mg to 500mg and started focusing on building strength and have been growing better than ever. :)
progressive overload = increasing doses of hormones in direct corelation to increasing doses of hgh,,
very very rare are the bodybuilder who is also very strong,,it is VERY GOOD when you find him but he wont be the most impressive one look wise,,those ones wil never hav ethe best muscle looking physiqe because the heavy lifting will take its toll ,,they are few and rare,,the ones who had both much power and great look physiqe are even rarest very very few ron ,,dorian,,etc not many,,
it is always important that before you open mouth take a good look around your gym,,follow what the big muscular fellas on hormones do ,,the ones who show the largest leanset size,,follow them a little,,you will see they never work heavy,,they cant,,they dont know what it is,,they say they do but in most cases MOST CASES they dont,,yet they always show large physiqe with condition and dried lethery veiny lean look...how come ?
well,, the secret is in direct increase of aas inrelation to the increas in gh,,
more gh = more steroid = larger size = bigger thicker muscle = 95 out of 100 top competitor now day
not to forget!,,on every ron colman there is 100 ken wheelers and pauli dilet ,,thats about the ratio...yet look at ken wheeler at his best ,,look at pauli dillet at his best,,,
D R U G S baby ,,thats the name of the game,,quality and quantity ,,, type and consistancy
gh15 approved
I believe it has something to do with your training, no?
Hold on a minute. The reason I get stronger and bigger is because of the past 6 years I have gradually lifted heavier weights and gradually ate more food to recover. Obviously gains are slower and I won't add 50lbs a year to my bench press but I am still adding lbage. If I only add 5lbs a year over the next 10 years I will still have a 450lb bench which for a natty isn't too shabby at all. (Granted I am heavy)
Hold on a minute. The reason I get stronger and bigger is because of the past 6 years I have gradually lifted heavier weights and gradually ate more food to recover. Obviously gains are slower and I won't add 50lbs a year to my bench press but I am still adding lbage. If I only add 5lbs a year over the next 10 years I will still have a 450lb bench which for a natty isn't too shabby at all. (Granted I am heavy)
but you won't add 5 lbs a year.
Progressive overload is the principle that dictates that muscles grow from increasing strength. The explanation for this is in physiology and physics. The strength of the individual contractile unit(the sarcomere) does not increase, so the only way for a muscle to become stronger is by adding more sarcomeres and thus becoming bigger in volume. A simple physiological fact(that sarcomeres don't increase in strength so the only way for a muscle to increase in strength is by adding more sarcomeres thus increasing in volume) and a simple fact from physics(that the only way for a unit that generates force to increase it's ability to generate force if it can't generate more force per unit of size is to increase in size) explains the phenomena of muscle growth. There is nothing more to it. Everything else is bullshit to sell supplements.
SUUCKMYMUSCLE
lol i've heard so many times "progressive overload is THE NUMBER ONE REASON people fail! they don't do it!!!!" on natural boards etc.
i can't think of a single person who doesn't know to increase the weight or muscle stress over time. not even one.
there are, on the other hand, billions, probably 99.9% who increase the weight when they shouldn't, when it will do nothing for their physique except ruin their tendons. they sacrifice all form, all tissue integrity, and all common sense for this progressive overloading. ::)
shut up, stupid.
You didn't understand anything I wrote, because you are a dumb person and hence you got frustrated. I understand. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Shut up, stupid.
You didn't understand anything I wrote, because you are a dumb person and hence you got frustrated. I understand. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
dumb dumb doesn't even know that bench shirts are like extra tendons
Because they are not. I have already explained why. Go read my explanation several times until you understand.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
tendons make you strong 8)
Yes.
I think it is incorrect to say that bodybuilders, especially NPC/Professional level, are not strong. It depends on what context you use to measure them. They seem to always be compared to power lifters/Olympic lifters.
I remember watching one of Jay's videos. It was the one where he lost to Coleman for the last time. He was benching 315, very strict, for around 8 or 9 reps as I remember. He was squatting 405 for maybe 10 reps or so. Now compared to hard core lifters and when you look at the size of Jay it doesn't seem like much. But when you compare him to athletes from other sports, forget the average gym rat or person on the street, he is incredibly strong. Even many juiced up football players and wrestlers his size will find it hard to match that performance.
Bodybuilders are not strength athletes as such, but as a group they are certainly one of the strongest people on this planet. Even the average gym rat is far stronger than the average fatty waddling around in this country. Personally, I am below average strength wise when I consider how long I've been training and how I match up with others in the gym. And I always strive to lift as heavy as I can using strict form. If I can get 12 clean reps on an upper body exercise I will increase the weight and I almost always try to exceed my previous performance. If I did 8 reps the last time I think 9 reps this time. But despite the fact that I am considered pathetically weak in the gym in normal everyday life I am considered strong and I'm always the one at work that gets asked to move the fucking boxes of computer paper or other crap that needs to get moved or lifted.
sorry... i have to disagree... i come from a country where if you train heavy, you're rendered as an idiot who wants to hurt himself.
upping the dose is the only way to guarantee you keep growing...
when someone says "yeah, progressive overload man... but you have to eat more... and you have to gradually raise your dose with time when you plateau for 2 years... it's the weights that give you the muscle, but the food and aas is what helps you get stronger... if you don't try to get stronger, you don't grow!"
getting stronger is a sure fire way to ensure you'll get injured... up the dose, you get hungrier, you get bigger... no need to increase the weight... i assure you.
I know A LOT of big guys who look like they can easily bench 455 lbs, but they fail at 12 reps with 275 or 315...
tendons make you strong 8)
The benching shirt increases strength by restricting your range of motion, which decreases the involvement of ancilliary muscles and thus increases your neuromuscular efficiency which allows you to recruit more motor units to move the weight rather than to balance it. It has nothing to do with it working like tendons. Nothing.
You = idiot. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
bet you couldn't lift anything without tendon
therefore adding tendon makes more stregnth
Hmm... Me thinks dat you fellas are missing something here. Lets take da King Mr. Arnold S. as an example... Arnold had pretty big biceps, yes? Well... How do you think dat his biceps got so big? By training with less and less weight? NO! HIS BICEPS GOT BIGGER FROM USING GREATER AND GREATER TRAINING LOADS. Yes, his bis weren't massively strong, but dat is beside da point. But here's da point, his bis got bigger AS A DIRECT RESULT OF USING GREATER AND GREATER TRAINING LOADS.
bet you couldn't lift anything without tendon
therefore adding tendon makes more stregnth
I think you got trolled.
It is amazing how wrong you are. You cannot lift anything if you didn't have tendons attaching your muscles to your bones, but adding extra tendons does not increase your strength in the slightest. Tendons do not contract, dumby.
Put the tendons of a 350 lbs powerlifter and attach them to the muscles of a 130 lbs woman who has never benched(and therefore has no neuromuscular efficiency) and her bench press will be what a 130 lbs woman can bench and not what a 350 lbs powerlifter can bench. This is simple logic, but for whatever reasons you are unable to understand this.
You = slow.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I believe it has something to do with your training, no?
sorry... i have to disagree... i come from a country where if you train heavy, you're rendered as an idiot who wants to hurt himself.
upping the dose is the only way to guarantee you keep growing...
when someone says "yeah, progressive overload man... but you have to eat more... and you have to gradually raise your dose with time when you plateau for 2 years... it's the weights that give you the muscle, but the food and aas is what helps you get stronger... if you don't try to get stronger, you don't grow!"
getting stronger is a sure fire way to ensure you'll get injured... up the dose, you get hungrier, you get bigger... no need to increase the weight... i assure you.
I know A LOT of big guys who look like they can easily bench 455 lbs, but they fail at 12 reps with 275 or 315...
You are right. He is just a troll. And a stupid one at that. It just pisses me off that these morons can be so wrong on something, then call you "stupid" for giving a perfectly logical explanation for why they are wrong instead of admitting that you are right and apologizing. They call you stupid because that is how you make them feel. Lol.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
you are so wrong about tendon
The benching shirt increases strength by restricting your range of motion, which decreases the involvement of ancilliary muscles and thus increases your neuromuscular efficiency which allows you to recruit more motor units to move the weight rather than to balance it. It has nothing to do with it working like tendons. Nothing.Bench shirt does not restrict your range of motion, idiot, the bar has to touch your chest with or without the shirt = it travels the same range of motion.
You = idiot. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
You are everything that is wrong with this board. This place would be so far more interesting and productive without dumbies like yourself posting here...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Bench shirt does not restrict your range of motion, idiot, the bar has to touch your chest with or without the shirt = it travels the same range of motion.
'dumbies', eh genius?
you can solve math problems that only 3 other people on the planet can solve, but you can't spell the word 'dummies' correctly.
niec wurk, dumbie.
No one cares about orthography. This is an internet message board. Besides, English is not my first language.
And yes, I can solve problems that only two other people in the World can solve.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I meant plane of movement(range of motion of your joints). It supports your joints locking them in position thus decreasing the need to balance the weight and thus increasing your ability to recruit motor units to move the weight - instead of balancing the weight.No it doesn't.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
No it doesn't.
plus he also don't get how tendon work
LOL!!! @ the above ;D ;D
some brutal ownings of the stupid bitch Isuckmuscle being handed out 8)
No it doesn't.
Ok, "hater". I guess I am getting owned because I am right and they are wrong. You truly are a shit skin Paki nerd.;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Ok, "hater". I guess I am getting owned because I am right and they are wrong. You truly are a shit skin Paki nerd.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
we don't hate you bro, its just so unfortunate that you have no concept of how you need tendon to lift ANYTHING!!! If you had even more, no wonder you could lift WAY moresimple logic pwns 8)
kinda sad you don't get this
-master
tendon = more stronger
simple logic pwns 8)
Yes, it does.You are wrong, admit it, you are arguing a futile argument here.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Tendons don't contract, dumbass. How does adding stronger tendons allow you to lift heavier weights? So if you give the tendons of a 350 lbs powerlifter to a 130 lbs woman she will be able to bench as much as the 350 lbs powerlifter? See how dumb you guys sound? :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
A natural will reach his strength potential within about 3 years of training. Strength gains from there are minimal. Progressive overload sounds great, but there's no way someone with 15 years of training is upping their weights every workout.
12 reps with 315 is pretty damn heavy for 99% of bodybuilders out theredon't agree here some people are built to bench
No, just give the weightlifter some more tendons and he will be stronger.
If you put more cable in a suspension bridge it is stronger.
Lol, this is not even an argument. A bridge being suspended by capables is not moving, you idiot. There is no force being generated. You are trying to argue that stronger tendons makes you stronger(allows to lift more weight). Tendons do not contract, hence stronger tendons do not make you stronger if your muscle mass and neuromuscular firing efficiency does not increase concomitantly. This is simple logic, but apparently it is too convoluted for you morons to understand. If you added stronger cables to one of those bridges that lift to allow for the passage of ships but added an engine with a power that is inferior to what is required to lift both ends of the bridge, the ends of the bridge wouldn't be lifted.
You guys = owned for the upteenth time. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
wrong broski....the force being gernerated is called GRAVITY (look it up) more cables on the bridge mean more cars can drive on it = stronger bridge
;)
Sigh...force as in work produced. Gravity does not produce work, stupid. This is high school physics. Lifting an object of the ground requires you to expend energy(generate force). A cable lifting an object that is static is not generating any force.
And this is besides the point. The point is moving the weight. Yes, stronger tendons allows you to support heavier weights and I never denied this, but it doesen't make you stronger for the simple reason that tendons do not contract. Hence, adding stronger tendons do not make you any stronger if your muscles and/or muscle efficiency remains the same.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Sigh...force as in work produced. Gravity does not produce work, stupid. This is high school physics. Lifting an object of the ground requires you to expend energy(generate force). A cable lifting an object that is static is not generating any force.
And this is besides the point. The point is moving the weight. Yes, stronger tendons allows you to support heavier weights and I never denied this, but it doesen't make you stronger for the simple reason that tendons do not contract. Hence, adding stronger tendons do not make you any stronger if your muscles and/or muscle efficiency remains the same.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
false I've been traing over 8 yrs I get stronger EVERY year and bigger
Suckmuscle is a classic example of the limits of raw intelligence. He's a smart guy, but we all know how Albert Einstein couldn't tie his own shoe laces and needed a guide dog to find his way home. Suckmuscle is the same way, he understands cell biology and how muscle cells get all that food in them to start growth, but practical matters like tendon stegnth clearly elude him.
Kinda sad, really. :-\
You are the one who is unable to understand that your argument doesen't even apply in this case.
Stronger tendons do not make you stronger if your muscle mass and neurological ability to recruit muscle fibers does not increase concomitantly.
Tendons do not contract and thus they do not generate force, hence an increase in tendon strength does not make you stronger.
Stronger tendons allows you to lift heavier weights if your muscles can generate enough force to lift those weights.
I do not know how to make this any simpler for you guys to understand. :-\
SUCKMYMUSCLE
&guy tendons allows you to lift heavier weights [/b] if your muscles can generate enough force to lift those weights.
you're proving my point, bro
stronger tendons = more strength
So if you give the tendons of a 350 lbs powerlifter to a 130 lbs woman she will be able to bench as much as the powerlifter? Just answer a simple "yes" or "no" to this question.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Of course.
SUCKSMANMUSCLE still getting pwned over this situation.
Logic and reason disagree with your statement. ;)No, just your fucked up version of logic and reason do. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
No, just your fucked up version of logic and reason do. ;)
You seriously have no idea how dumb you sound. LMAO!!!!Quit talking to yourself.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
tendons do not generate any force.I think you are wrong
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Yes, because saying that if you had stronger tendons with the exact same muscle size you would be able to bench hundreds of pounds more. That makes a lot more sense. Let's just ignore the fact that tendons do not generate any force. You guys seriously have no idea how dumb you sound. LMAO!!!!
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Tendon plus benchshirt= more tendon= more stronger. Sucky=big dummier
Tendons make weightlifting possible.
The benching shirt works nothing like adding more tendons. I have already explained it. Read my posts several times until you understand. :)Your posts are wrong, I recommend people steer clear of them.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Your posts are wrong, I recommend people steer clear of them.
You guys are trolling, but I play along because I like to own you continuously and show people how brilliant I am.No, no, you're just wrong.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
all you fellas are wrong excdpt suckymuscle he is right in this situation,,,I many friends that are medical doctors from surgens,,to orthopetics and friends in medical school right now at university of arizona I talked to them on this and they are essentially saying what sucky muscle is saying that tendion does not provide extra pounds on a bench press,,,im ASSUMING SUCKYMUSCLE IS A MEDICAL STUDENT???? OR IN MEDICAL FIELD? suckymuscle is essentially talking to a brick wall in this thread he PWNS YOU ALL,,, ;)LOL epic trolling fail.
LOL epic trolling fail.reported FOR HAVING A CONE HEAD :D
all you fellas are wrong excdpt suckymuscle he is right in this situation,,,I many friends that are medical doctors from surgens,,to orthopetics and friends in medical school right now at university of arizona I talked to them on this and they are essentially saying what sucky muscle is saying that tendion does not provide extra pounds on a bench press,,,im ASSUMING SUCKYMUSCLE IS A MEDICAL STUDENT???? OR IN MEDICAL FIELD?
? suckymuscle is essentially talking to a brick wall in this thread he PWNS YOU ALL,,, ;)
Thank you very much. If one guy here can see my genius, I am happy.tendons and ligaments are support structures for muscles..Like a building or car, the weakest points are the support structures...that is where the damage first starts...When you tear a bicep, where does it tear at? Or a quad? Or a pec? Things happen when tendons and ligaments that are weaker than the muscle that it is attached to.
I don't need to be. I reached that conclusion with simple logic. Tendons do not generate force, so increasing the toughness of tendons does not increase your strength. This is logical. The problem with these people is that they are morons and play with semantics or come up with strawman arguments and also analogies to pretend like they have points.
Quoted for truth. But these guys will never give me credit or admit they were wrong.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
tendons and ligaments are support structures for muscles..Like a building or car, the weakest points are the support structures...that is where the damage first starts...When you tear a bicep, where does it tear at? Or a quad? Or a pec? Things happen when tendons and ligaments that are weaker than the muscle that it is attached to.
tendons and ligaments are support structures for muscles..Like a building or car, the weakest points are the support structures...that is where the damage first starts...When you tear a bicep, where does it tear at? Or a quad? Or a pec? Things happen when tendons and ligaments that are weaker than the muscle that it is attached to.
But making your tendons tougher does not make you stronger. This is the point of my argument. Tendons do not generate force because they do not contract. Hence, increasing the tougness of your tendons has no effect in making you stronger if your muscles and/or neuromuscular ability to recruit motor units does not increase as well. Saying that the benching shirt makes you stronger because it acts like stronger tendons is absurd. First of all, it is not true. The benching shirt makes you stronger by restricting the movement of your shoulders on a vertical axis which allows you to recruit more motor units to move the weight rather than balance the weight. Secondly, even if the benching shirt worked like tendons, it could not make you stronger for this reason because stronger tendons does not make you stronger for the reasons explained above.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Hard to admit...although suckmycock is wrong about "progressive overload" and pretty much everything else, hes got this one right. Benching shirt doesnt act like tendons, it restricts the movement and also acts like a catapult making the negative part easier and giving more force and explosiveness to the beginning of the positive part of the rep...shirtbenching is nowadays first and foremost about lock-out power, which sucks, IMO...
Dude, you are talkin about a different thing...of course you can and will get stronger by "progressive overload", but if you want to get BIGGER, musclewise, drugs + mind-muscle connection is the key. Cos when you increase poundages you build your tendons, bones...yes muscles also to some extenctent, but very little...If you want to build muscle you need to eat to give them nutrients, stress the muscle to make yor body realize where those nutrients need to go and take peds to multiplie the effectiveness of the whole process by 10...thats it, and rest of course...powerlifting and bb`ing are two different "sports", gotta remember that
QMFT
But none of what you're pointing in your post are definable things. My explanation for why muscles grow when you make them stronger makes a lot more sense than what you're saying: since the basic unit that generates force in the muscle, the sarcomere, does not become stronger per volume of area, then the only way for a muscle to become stronger is to increase the number of sarcomeres and thus it's volume or size. The strength of a muscle, defined as it's capacity to generate force, is proportional to it's cross-sectional area - the diameter of the muscle. Besides neurological efficiency, or the ability ot recruit motor units, the only other variable affecting the strength of a muscle is it's size. This is logical. What you say is a mess based on assumptions and poorly defined variables.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Actually, you have a point, thats how muscles get stronger, by increasing the cross-sectional area...but it doesnt necessary mean that your lifts get stronger too, cos those supporting tissues need to strengthen at the same speed...why all the bodybuilders arent strong?...cos their muscle hypertrophy has been faster than the speed their bones, tendons etc have got stronger...due to that they can also be quite injury prone when using heavy weights...other parts of their body arent at the same level with their muscles
, it restricts the movementNo it doesn't.
.shirtbenching is nowadays first and foremost about lock-out power, which sucks, IMO...A shirt is at its least effective during lockout........is that what you are trying to say here?
No it doesn't.
A shirt is at its least effective during lockout........is that what you are trying to say here?
Bench shirt = extra tendons
extra tendons = strength
350lb PLer = strong woman with shirt
False.
False.
QFT
(http://www.inflexwetrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/big_boobs.jpg)
Carry on.
Built chest=short ROM=good bench...hopefully without a shirt...No bra allowed
No bra allowed
Yeah man, I understand that, but if one make a pretty big weight increase on a certain exercise, then they will definately have bigger muscles. I'm talking about adding 50 or more pounds on compound exercises, or 25 or more pounds on a dumbell exercise. For example going from dumbell curling the 50s to the 80s
What happens if a bodybuilder goes from bench pressing 200 pounds for 6 reps to 300 pounds for 6 reps? Does his chest, delts, and tris get bigger, smaller, or stay the same size?
He started using a smith machine obviously.
Hold on a minute. The reason I get stronger and bigger is because of the past 6 years I have gradually lifted heavier weights and gradually ate more food to recover. Obviously gains are slower and I won't add 50lbs a year to my bench press but I am still adding lbage. If I only add 5lbs a year over the next 10 years I will still have a 450lb bench which for a natty isn't too shabby at all. (Granted I am heavy)
if you are natural it is a must to get stronger in order to grow,
So much negativity regarding growing muscle/strength naturally on here.Im guessing not many of you have the balls and patience to week after week keep lifting that weight till you can rep more.It might take months to get past sticking points but its not impossible.So many poeple want to admit that you can only do this or that for a certain time then you have to up the dosage.Bullshit.try training hard for once ;)
Not true
most definately it is true (for a natural!)
Not true
seriously it's the basic premise for growth for natural bodybuilders. can you provide any information that supports your argument? and I'm talking about true natural bodybuilders.
I'm a true natural bodybuilder, I gained about 35-40 lbs of muscle ( over 10 years ) basically lifting the same amount of weight because my weak joints (specially shoulders).
How does it work without progressive overload? If the key was just to "pump" the muscles and break them down, then marathon runners should have big legs, which they don't have.
Thing is Che, 99% of people that talk about natural training have no first hand experience of it over an extended period of time, or any training at all... :o Personal trainer syndrome.
I think that if you keep working a muscle and breaking it down, that it stimulates growth. There may be an argument that it is not as efficient without clear progressive resistance, but it works.
Good point, but how many gymnasts continue to get bigger and bigger muscles, after their initial growth from their gymnastic exercises?
Good point, but how many gymnasts continue to get bigger and bigger muscles, after their initial growth from their gymnastic exercises?If gymnasts eat to get bigger they would get bigger ,for a natural bodybuilder food /diet is more important than training ,I would say 70% to 30 %.
Sorry my man, but I have to disagree with you there. All "eating more" did for me was make me a fat pig.You need to not only eat the right foods, but the right amount of foods, for natural bodybuilders gains come really slow if you aren't patient natural bodybuilding isn't for you my friend .
I'm just curious about something here, as far as "slow gains" are concerned... What do you think about Mike Mentzer's claims that he would regularly have clients gain 20 to 30 pounds in 3 to 4 months? Was he speaking BS? Remember, he said regularly, not occasionally.
Once you hit your natural plateau, no ammount of different training methods is going to push you beyond that point, only drugs.
I'm a true natural bodybuilder, I gained about 35-40 lbs of muscle ( over 10 years ) basically lifting the same amount of weight because my weak joints (specially shoulders).
Once you hit your natural plateau, no ammount of different training methods is going to push you beyond that point, only drugs.
but that does not disprove the fact that you need to grow stronger inorder to grow. you can get stronger without growing (via neural factors) but you won't grow unless there is some kind of progressive overload.yaaaaaaaa buddy
people will look exactly the same if their poundages stay the same.I started lifting weights when I was a 18yo , e.g., I've never benched more than 225Lbs I did change #of reps,rest time between sets ,supersets ,# of exercises......etc but poundages stayed the same for years .
yaaaaaaaa buddy
My workout today:
Bench
Empty bar x 10
135 x 10
225 x5
365 x 1
365 x 1
385 x 1
365 x 1
225 x 15
135 x 10
Dumbbell laterals
20lbrs x 10
45lbrs x 10
70lbrs x 10
70lbrs x 8
70lbrs x 8
45lbrs x 10
20lbrs x 15
10 lbrs x 20
Tricep single arm db overhead xtensions
20lbrs x 10
40lbrs x 10
40lbrs x 10
40lbrs x 10
20lbrs x 15
Db curls
20lbs x 2 x 20
45lbs x 10
70lbs x 10
70lbs x 8
70lbs x 6
45lbs x 10
20 lbs x 20
Finish up with a giant set, cycling through these exercises 3 times:
Push ups with feet elevated x 15
Db press 80lbs, 90lbs, 60lbs, x 10
Tricep pushdowns x 15
Db curls 30lbs x 10
Sit ups on a decline bench x 15
That looks a horrible workout man. Not hating.LoL.
''progressive overload''= little balloonie wanna be guru words for: busting your ass in the gym to failure, doing all reps range, low-medium-high. nothing complicated about this.no.
Spot on post tbombz, increasing reps and/or decreasing rest btw sets is a form of progress, but it isn't applying any form of INCREASED TRAINING LOADS, which is a VERY, VERY IMPORTANT PART of obtaining BIGGER MUSCLES.
Spot on post tbombz, increasing reps and/or decreasing rest btw sets is a form of progress, but it isn't applying any form of INCREASED TRAINING LOADS, which is a VERY, VERY IMPORTANT PART of obtaining BIGGER MUSCLES.Ya man, it seems like some of these guys just hate lifting heavy and will never stop trying to rationalize their failed/failing training methods.
their failed/failing training methods.Do you want to compare physiques stud.
Ya man, it seems like some of these guys just hate lifting heavy and will never stop trying to rationalize their failed/failing training methods.If I searched your posts, I'm sure I could find several where you insist the weight doesn't matter....
Do you want to compare physiques stud.you looked awesome in the photos you posted. No doubt about that. But you gained 30-40lbs over ten years. At your best you looked like a swimmer with good genetics. In clothes, no one would think you were a weight lifter.
If I searched your posts, I'm sure I could find several where you insist the weight doesn't matter....ya, your right, and back when I thought that was true you were one of the people arguing against me saying weight does matter. Isn't that right?
you looked awesome in the photos you posted. No doubt about that. But you gained 30-40lbs over ten years. At your best you looked like a swimmer with good genetics. In clothes, no one would think you were a weight lifter.Nah,
If you want to post some of your photos next to mine go right ahead. It's like apples and oranges. Big and soft vs small and ripped.
ya, your right, and back when I thought that was true you were one of the people arguing against me saying weight does matter. Isn't that right?It's called Progressive Overload........look it up. ;D
That kind of training that you just described with short rests btw sets is much more of a "metabolic conditioning" protocol, and it doesn't do much for muscle fiber size increases, but it will help one to become more cardiovascularly fit
Nah,
Serious question TBombz you have accomplished absolutely nothing naturally in the past , so how do you know if your improvements are a product of your training or your drug use .
PS:I know the answer you don't need to reply.
its obvious your new to getbig, you missed the photos of when i was a natural.I don't see the coked out, motorcycle version of you ???
heres me at 15, just started training
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=85669.0;attach=92054)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=85669.0;attach=92055)
heres me, about 9 months later. 16 y.o.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106479.0;attach=118186)
heres me at 17, of course still natural
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=120003.0;attach=135758)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=116127.0;attach=131330)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=160648.0;attach=185902)
Dizzle, do you still plan to compete in bodybuilding contests like you used to say you would?I don't plan on it, but I am not ruling out the possibility.
Ya man, it seems like some of these guys just hate lifting heavy and will never stop trying to rationalize their failed/failing training methods.
Bottom Line:
If your wrists are under 7 inches,
Stay away from very heavy weights.
"Progressive Overload"
Sounds like Onlyme put an ad in the paper looking for guys to join his band
I'm a true natural bodybuilder, I gained about 35-40 lbs of muscle ( over 10 years ) basically lifting the same amount of weight because my weak joints (specially shoulders).
Ok tbombz, so I have a feeling that you agree wit dis following statement, "One can improve the growth process by extending their sets" oui? And there is another statement which I believe to be SPOT ON, which is as follows, "HARD WORK will ALWAYS be required to grow muscle naturally." So could it be that che's muscle growth was the direct result of HARD WORK? FYI, one can work hard WITHOUT INCREASING LOADS. Yeah man, I admit dat I'm a bit confused bout da muscle building process, but... I DO KNOW HOW TO GET RIPPED, AND THERE IS NO FVCKING DOUBT BOUT DAT 8)im not confused about it, its just that th mater is complex with many variables ot take into consideration and developing a universal explanation is difficult, at least to put in words.
Sorry man, but I don't buy dat hyperthropy rep range of 6 to 12 reps. I ALWAYS made my best size gains not going much more than 6 reps. Many say the set should last somewhere from 30 to 90 seconds, and I say BULLSHIT ;D I think sets shouldn't last much longer than 20 seconds. Also, as far as "extending the set goes" some say that doing so creates too great of an "inroad" into recovery ability.probably because that is when you were getting the strongest. load is the most important factor, but time under tension is second. so youl get biggest fastest by getting strongest fastest, = lifting lower reps/heavy weights. but at a certain point strength gains start to become very difficult, once your close to your complete strength potential (lets say benching 500lbs raw), and at this point your probably better off trying to increase the amount of reps you can get with the heavy weight, instead of tryinng for further increases in workload. thats why i said guys should focus on powerlifting untill they lift big weights, and then focus on adding reps/sets while using the big weights.
fatpanda is right on the money for the most part. the one area i would disagree is lets say your one rep max is 405. you stick with 405 for a few months till you can rep it 10 times. load did not increase, but you will have grown quite a bit.
and while i agree about load being the most important factor, i dont think its necessary to say che is lying. he is only claiming to have gained a few lbs per year, and i think that is probably do-able if your eating right and doing tons of pumping, squeezing, drop sets, etc with moderate weight on all muscle groups. he has posted pics and looked pretty good, but he was a small dude..like a buck 70 at his prime. i know alot of black guys who can be 160-170 ripped without much exercise.
He is about 5'9 isn't he? He looks about a 1000 times better natty as you do on gear. ::)
Show me anybody who looks built, that meaning thick chest, 16 inch arms, developed thighs naturally without training. Bullshit.
Why don't all of those tribesman out in Africa look like that? I would say they get a bit of exercise.
As i said previously i like lifting heavy but to say that other methods of training don't work is ignorant.
Past a certain level of load i think the body reacts through growth. Bearing in mind that strength platau's, or are you suggesting that once you have hit your strength limit that you have also hit your growth limit? No way........
Does somebody want to explain to me how gymnasts get such good physiques without using classic progressive overload?
They do use classic overload to get their physiques, but after a while they don't get any bigger. Its like the initial shock of their exercises makes them gain muscle, but after a while they stay the same simply because they do the same..they never increase their workload.
Serious question, how many of y'all DON'T lose strength after the 1st work set? I ALWAYS lose strength after my 1st work set, and I rest at least 5 min btw work sets. For example, if I do 100 pound db rows for 5 reps til failure, I ALWAYS do less reps the next work set, even if I rest 10 min btw sets.
i dont think i see anything in your post that was actually disagreeing with what i wrote. if you were trying to debate the subject, and not just try to insult me or sound smart, then i suggest yuou to try re-word or re-think your post.. :-\
He is about 5'9 isn't he? He looks about a 1000 times better natty as you do on gear. ::)
Show me anybody who looks built, that meaning thick chest, 16 inch arms, developed thighs naturally without training. Bullshit.
Why don't all of those tribesman out in Africa look like that? I would say they get a bit of exercise.
As i said previously i like lifting heavy but to say that other methods of training don't work is ignorant.
Past a certain level of load i think the body reacts through growth. Bearing in mind that strength platau's, or are you suggesting that once you have hit your strength limit that you have also hit your growth limit? No way........
Does somebody want to explain to me how gymnasts get such good physiques without using classic progressive overload?
Serious question, how many of y'all DON'T lose strength after the 1st work set? I ALWAYS lose strength after my 1st work set, and I rest at least 5 min btw work sets. For example, if I do 100 pound db rows for 5 reps til failure, I ALWAYS do less reps the next work set, even if I rest 10 min btw sets.depends. if your work to failure or within a couple reps of it then you will probably lose strength after the first set. if you stay a few reps shy of failure you might even gain strength after your first work set, and usually wont lose strength untill after 4-5 good heavy sets. this is why i prefer sub-failure training.
I did progressive overload the first 2-3 years since I started lifting and it got to a point I couldn't lift any heavier because my weak joints but still made improvements (gain muscles ) after that .You can, you're just lazy.
My point was you can still improve even if you can't add any more weight to your lifts, as for myself If I could I would add more weight to my bench , squat ........etc.
alot of guys in this thread are making progressing in there weights, poundages and workouts AMAZING! THIS MUST BE THE KEY THENJohnny..........I know the secret.......would you like me to share it with you?(http://www.healthcentral.com/common/bloghoster/data/uploads/avatars/35150.gif?1261)
you're just lazy.
So is your momShe's tired from trying to abuse us kids.
I did progressive overload the first 2-3 years since I started lifting and it got to a point I couldn't lift any heavier because my weak joints but still made improvements (gain muscles ) after that .you do have a point. you are the proof. but as you admit, you didnt lift heavier because you were physically limited, not because you didnt think training heavier would help you gain better. the point is that kind of training is not optimal. it works for slow progress and theres nothing wrong with that, especially for a lean guy who just wants to look good naked. for guys interested in getting FUCKING MASSIVE.. they want to find whats optimal, and that means getting as strong as possible.
My point was you can still improve even if you can't add any more weight to your lifts, as for myself If I could I would add more weight to my bench , squat ........etc.
She's tired from trying to abuse us kids.;D
Didn't work! :D
Well, I kinda do it that way, coz my set/rep protocol is usuall 3 sets of 6, so if I get 6 reps for the 1st set and it is not til failure, I stop at the 6th rep. And then, once I can do 3 sets of 6 reps, then I will increase the weight next workout. And I ain't hating on ya man, but when I saw you mention working up to bping 500 pounds for reps I just had to ROFL man! Shit dude! Us natural fellas ain't no supermen ;D I think that ANYBODY that can get a handful of good clean reps at 315 is a true badass, natural or enhanced, but who knows? Maybe I just some "weak f@g" ;Dthat sounds like a good method.
that sounds like a good method.Bullshit without video proof.
i benched 415 for three singles today. my goal is to hit 495 before 2012. (chest has always been my weak point)
you didnt lift heavier because you were physically limited, not because you didnt think training heavier would help you gain better.Correct.
Bullshit without video proof.maybe alex can tape me benching the next time he comes up here to visit flexington's family. i dont have a camera.
Hey che! How much could you bench and squat? Just curious, man.
Bench 225Lbs x 8-10 ,every time I tried to go heavier I fucked my shoulders.
Squat 315lbs x 6-8 .
So this makes it actually ok for me to post my lifts here ???Yes, please do. :)
che im noticing a much more humble/nice che latley what is it? falconism , life , your injury what ect..?
I'm a very nice guy Falcon ,if you don't believe me ask Chao's mom.Who's Chao ???
Who's Chao ???Is not you don't worry about it.
Is not you don't worry about it.Sounds Chinese.
I'm a very nice guy Falcon ,if you don't believe me ask Chao's mom.keep it up brother ill ask my mom
No worries man, I'm a weak guyGood avatar X who is that? How many times does he brush his teeth a day best teeth I've seen in years.
What if you just maxed out a lift and you add a piece of tape and hair to the bar each workout?
Most guys here bench over 300-480No they don't.
bench
What if you just maxed out a lift and you add a piece of tape and hair to the bar each workout?
Bump fo che's answer to ma question
How much bigger? And more precisely, how much more lean muscle tissue did you gain?
LOL! Ok man, thanks for da respones.
I read before about a guy who benched witha telephone directory on his chest, Maybe with 30lbs heavier than he could handle. Every week or so ripped out a few pages and done lots of sets. Eventually It will be on your chest.
Nice story but better ways IMO
I read before about a guy who benched witha telephone directory on his chest, Maybe with 30lbs heavier than he could handle. Every week or so ripped out a few pages and done lots of sets. Eventually It will be on your chest.
Nice story but better ways IMO