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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on April 20, 2012, 05:14:49 AM
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ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerman
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/abc-news-photo-taken-after-trayvon-martin-shooting/nMdbw/ ^
| Friday, April 20, 2012 | WFTV
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 7:33:22 AM by sheikdetailfeather
SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. —
WFTV just learned Friday morning about a picture of gunman George Zimmerman, taken just three minutes after the shooting that left 17-year-old Trayvon Martin dead.
The picture reportedly shows cuts on the back of Zimmerman's head, with blood trickling down.
Zimmerman, who shot and killed 17-year-old Martin on February 26 in a gated Sanford community, claimed he killed Martin in self-defense. Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder for the shooting death of Martin.
The picture would seem to back up Zimmerman's claim that Martin slammed his head against the sidewalk.
That picture could be part of the evidence shown to the judge in court Friday morning during Zimmerman's bond hearing.
ABC News is breaking more on this story on Good Morning America at 7 a.m. on Channel 9. We'll have more on Central Florida's TV 27 at 7 a.m.
Meanwhile, Trayvon Martin's parents will come face to face for the first time with Zimmerman on Friday.
Zimmerman is due in a Seminole County courtroom for a bond hearing at 9 a.m.
After a week and a half behind bars, Zimmerman may be walking out of jail to await trial on a second-degree murder charge.
The parents of 17-year-old Martin are expected in the courtroom during the bond hearing.
Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara will likely argue to Judge Kenneth Lester that Zimmerman is not a flight risk, pointing to fact that Zimmerman turned himself in immediately when charges were filed.
Judge Lester must decide if Zimmerman will be offered bond.
(Excerpt) Read more at wftv.com ...
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;) :) :D ;D >:( :(
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;) :) :D ;D >:( :(
3333, I've been intentionally ignoring this Bullshit... Did Zimmerman chase after the shithead he killed?
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He followed him, yes. Chased is a bit of a misnomer. (Besides following someone isnt breaking the law in any way. Would you like it if you were just walking down the street behind some paranoid ass dude, and he thought you were following him and turned around and attacked you? I realize its a different scenario, but if you make following someone illegal, be prepared for that.)
And 333, clearly a photoshop.
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He followed him, yes. Chased is a bit of a misnomer. (Besides following someone isnt breaking the law in any way. Would you like it if you were just walking down the street behind some paranoid ass dude, and he thought you were following him and turned around and blasted you?)
And 333, clearly a photoshop.
Drudge and ABC are running w this.
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Hugo: According to Zimmermans account he said he had given up chase and was headed back to meet with the police when Martin came out from behind him and asked him if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no, and Martin said you do now and attacked Zimmerman.
This whole thing could get thrown out on self defense, forget about the stand your ground law. Anyone who is forced to the ground and receiving repeated blows to the head is going to fear for their life which is reasonable for self defense.
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Hugo: According to Zimmermans account he said he had given up chase and was headed back to meet with the police when Martin came out from behind him and asked him if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no, and Martin said you do now and attacked Zimmerman.
This whole thing could get thrown out on self defense, forget about the stand your ground law. Anyone who is forced to the ground and receiving repeated blows to the head is going to fear for their life which is reasonable for self defense.
Agree. So much of this gets spun on people views of morality and the way it was potrayed by the media. Fact is he right or wrong Zimmerman really didnt break any laws, EVEN if he followed TM down the road.
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Big Mal and 240 on suicide watch.
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Big Mal and 240 on suicide watch.
Why leave out blackass, andre, straw, littlej?
The more of those clowns on the ledge the better.
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60 seconds of having the head pounded against pavement, huh? ;)
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60 seconds of having the head pounded against pavement, huh? ;)
Jesus Christ. Your argument is pointless and illogical. Just quit.
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Jesus Christ. Your argument is pointless and illogical. Just quit.
the shoot is legal. But his dad exaggerated when he went on tv to influence the juror pool. And I totally hate ppl who exaggerate shit when life/death shoots are concerned. Just the facts. I'd rather have an honest man punch me in the face, than a liar buuy me lunch.
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the shoot is legal. But his dad exaggerated when he went on tv to influence the juror pool. And I totally hate ppl who exaggerate shit when life/death shoots are concerned. Just the facts. I'd rather have an honest man punch me in the face, than a liar buuy me lunch.
Yet you support obama and have kneepadded his lies for three years. Amazing.
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the shoot is legal. But his dad exaggerated when he went on tv to influence the juror pool. And I totally hate ppl who exaggerate shit when life/death shoots are concerned. Just the facts. I'd rather have an honest man punch me in the face, than a liar buuy me lunch.
NON-ISSUE. How about the media influencing the jury pool? Or Al Sharpton? Trayvons parents? OBAMA!?
GTFO.
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Jesus Christ. Your argument is pointless and illogical. Just quit.
Yup. He's got nothing. Just a desperate, lying lynch mob drone trying to save face.
the shoot is legal. But his dad exaggerated when he went on tv to influence the juror pool. And I totally hate ppl who exaggerate shit when life/death shoots are concerned. Just the facts. I'd rather have an honest man punch me in the face, than a liar buuy me lunch.
Why is it always the hypocrites that get preachy? You're easily one of the biggest liars on here. In-fact, I'd say you lie more often than you tell the truth.
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it's already been claimed he had a cut on his head so pics of the blood don't add anything or prove anything except that he has a cut on his head
If he had any serious injury he would have been taken to the hospital and not the police station. This is especially true of a head injury or possible concussion
btw - everyone here should know that even minor cuts and scrapes on the head can produce what looks like lot of blood.
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it's already been claimed he had a cut on his head so pics of the blood don't add anything or prove anything except that he has a cut on his head
If he had any serious injury he would have been taken to the hospital and not the police station. This is especially true of a head injury or possible concussion
btw - everyone here should know that even minor cuts and scrapes on the head can produce what looks like lot of blood.
All true. Lots of blood vessels in the scalp.
Thing here is that his claims of having his head hit on the concrete are substantiated. Corroborated with the fact that TM was found face down in the grass (shot from the front).
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All true. Lots of blood vessels in the scalp.
Thing here is that his claims of having his head hit on the concrete are substantiated. Corroborated with the fact that TM was found face down in the grass (shot from the front).
no it doesn't
it proves he had a cut on his head
It doesn't prove how he got it or what the circumstances were
we know they had an altercation and that is a minor cut that he could have gotten by scraping his head one time while rolling around on the pavement.
the cut itself is not proof of anything except that he had a cut on his head
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no it doesn't
it proves he had a cut on his head
It doesn't prove how he got it or what the circumstances were
we know they had an altercation and that is a minor cut that he could have gotten by scraping his head one time while rolling around on the pavement.
the cut itself is not proof of anything except that he had a cut on his head
::) ::)
FNG please
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All true. Lots of blood vessels in the scalp.
Thing here is that his claims of having his head hit on the concrete are substantiated. Corroborated with the fact that TM was found face down in the grass (shot from the front).
Nobody on getbig said "but but but but he never hit his head".
I think we just called bullshit when he had his dad go on tv and claim as fact it was 60 sconds of head bashed on concrete. total bullshit.
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no it doesn't
it proves he had a cut on his head
It doesn't prove how he got it or what the circumstances were
we know they had an altercation and that is a minor cut that he could have gotten by scraping his head one time while rolling around on the pavement.
the cut itself is not proof of anything except that he had a cut on his head
So wait, your claiming this DOESNT corroborate with his story? Cause Im pretty sure teh defense is going to say it does, lol.
Look past the blood.
His head is brutally bloodied. As the image above shows, there’s blood all over his head, at least two gashes, and a large bruise forming at the top of his head.
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Nobody on getbig said "but but but but he never hit his head".
I think we just called bullshit when he had his dad go on tv and claim as fact it was 60 sconds of head bashed on concrete. total bullshit.
Nobody cares. Non-issue, worthless to the case. Youre off arguing in lala land about shit no one gives a fuck about and that doesnt matter.
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::) ::)
FNG please
no offense 333 - but I would never expect you to understand that
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So wait, your claiming this DOESNT corroborate with his story? Cause Im pretty sure teh defense is going to say it does, lol.
Look past the blood.
the cut itself proves nothing except that he had a cut on his head
doesn't prove how he got it
doesn't prove that he was the victim or that his life was in danger
doesn't prove anything except that he had a cut on his head
shit for all we know he tripped and fell on his way back to his truck or even hit his head on the door jam of his truck
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the cut itself proves nothing except that he had a cut on his head
doesn't prove how he got it
doesn't prove that he was the victim or that his life was in danger
doesn't prove anything except that he had a cut on his head
shit for all we know he tripped and fell on his way back to his truck or even hit his head on the door jam of his truck
I understand what Youre getting at. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure the defense is going to use this, along with the rest of the evudence the police haven't released yet (the evidence they used to determine he wasn't under arrest) as corroboration of his story.
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I understand what Youre getting at. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure the defense is going to use this, along with the rest of the evudence the police haven't released yet (the evidence they used to determine he wasn't under arrest) as corroboration of his story.
actually, the lead investigator, who interviewed him extensively, looked at that evidence and called bullshit. he wanted to charge him.
It's only the police chief (who since resigned) that swooped in with DA in hand and told the investigator "no charge!"
And I'd bet you a dozen donuts zimm's dad called them that night. I guess we'll never know :)
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personally, i trust the word of an investigator who had all the facts...
over the choice of a police chief (an admin more than a detective, no doubt) who drives in on a sunday night to reverse course of the invetigator.
Then, he resigns over it. Really, it looks pretty shitty. You don't resign when you make a good call. You resign when you fck up.
It's akin to Issa being ready to charge obama with treason for that birth certificate... holder steps in and shuts down the investigation... and then Holder resigns.
Would anyone really say "Oh, obama must be innocent!"? lol
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Big Mal and 240 on suicide watch.
um for what?...
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Jesus Christ. Your argument is pointless and illogical. Just quit.
And youve never said those words to 33333. Wow
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The Frontline episode this week is somewhat relevent to this discussion
I watched this a couple of nights ago and was suprised to learn that many forensic "techniques" have almost no basis is science and are really nothing more the than opinion/judgement of so called "expert" witnesses, many of whom did nothing more than get certified by a diploma mill
if the subject interests anyone this is definitely worth an hour of your time
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/
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the cut itself proves nothing except that he had a cut on his head
doesn't prove how he got it
doesn't prove that he was the victim or that his life was in danger
doesn't prove anything except that he had a cut on his head
shit for all we know he tripped and fell on his way back to his truck or even hit his head on the door jam of his truck
Doesn't prove how he got it?
The phone that took the pic has embedded data that proves it was taken 3 minutes after the shooting.
And for the bolded part of your post.....you're an idiot. Simple as that.
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I understand what Youre getting at. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure the defense is going to use this, along with the rest of the evudence the police haven't released yet (the evidence they used to determine he wasn't under arrest) as corroboration of his story.
I'm sure they will try
I would expect so at least
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And youve never said those words to 33333. Wow
It goes without saying. A lot of what 333 posts he even admits is pointless trolling.
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Nobody on getbig said "but but but but he never hit his head".
I think we just called bullshit when he had his dad go on tv and claim as fact it was 60 sconds of head bashed on concrete. total bullshit.
I've hit my head on concrete before and it didn't cause cuts. It caused some serious welting but no blood. I think the cuts probably stem from the abrasion of having your head BASHED on it, though. So yeah, I can see him having his head bashed on the concrete for 60 seconds to get those cuts.
You, of course, can't substantiate how long it was for so your "we just called bullshit" claim is just that: bullshit.
um for what?...
For your lynch mob failing.
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personally, i trust the word of an investigator who had all the facts...
over the choice of a police chief (an admin more than a detective, no doubt) who drives in on a sunday night to reverse course of the invetigator.
Then, he resigns over it. Really, it looks pretty shitty. You don't resign when you make a good call. You resign when you fck up.
It's akin to Issa being ready to charge obama with treason for that birth certificate... holder steps in and shuts down the investigation... and then Holder resigns.
Would anyone really say "Oh, obama must be innocent!"? lol
Why are you getting so caught up in the fucking politics and ignoring the evidence? Oh yeah, cause it doesnt back your bullshit.
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Doesn't prove how he got it?
The phone that took the pic has embedded data that proves it was taken 3 minutes after the shooting.
And for the bolded part of your post.....you're an idiot. Simple as that.
3 minutes after the shooting doesn't change anything I said
go back and think a bit more about it
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Why are you getting so caught up in the fucking politics and ignoring the evidence? Oh yeah, cause it doesnt back your bullshit.
Evidence- Dude is dead and there is only 1 side to the altercation. Thats evidence. Arrest him and then investigate. None of this happens. Well the mom still lost her 17 year son.. but hey.. he brought it on himself... Tha fuck does he think he is, goin to the store with a sweater, getting juice and candy... shit he might as well have a target on his back .
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It goes without saying. A lot of what 333 posts he even admits is pointless trolling.
;)
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Evidence- Dude is dead and there is only 1 side to the altercation. Thats evidence. Arrest him and then investigate. None of this happens. Well the mom still lost her 17 year son.. but hey.. he brought it on himself... Tha fuck does he think he is, goin to the store with a sweater, getting juice and candy... shit he might as well have a target on his back .
Oh cry me a river.
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I've hit my head on concrete before and it didn't cause cuts. It caused some serious welting but no blood. I think the cuts probably stem from the abrasion of having your head BASHED on it, though. So yeah, I can see him having his head bashed on the concrete for 60 seconds to get those cuts.
You, of course, can't substantiate how long it was for so your "we just called bullshit" claim is just that: bullshit.
For your lynch mob failing.
Lynch mob.
Hyperbole much?
Damn...youre like a 12 year old gossiping school girl with the exaggeration, damn.
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http://southflorida.sun-sentinel.com/news/os-george-zimmerman-bond-hearing-20120420,0,4802623.story
Zimm got bail.
Riots in 3 . . . 2 . . . . .1 . .
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Evidence- Dude is dead and there is only 1 side to the altercation. Thats evidence. Arrest him and then investigate. None of this happens. Well the mom still lost her 17 year son.. but hey.. he brought it on himself... Tha fuck does he think he is, goin to the store with a sweater, getting juice and candy... shit he might as well have a target on his back .
Jesus Christ spin much? Evidence shows that TM initiated aggression 1st broseph. Zimmerman was beat the fuck up. Dude died on his face, shot through the front. Drop this whole "poor innocent kid strolling down the road got attacked and murdered", cause thats just you ignoring the facts.
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So what happened to the call for waiting for the trial?
I guess the same people defending Zimmerman are EXACTLY like the same calling for his head without evidence.
:-\
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So what happened to the call for waiting for the trial?
I guess the same people defending Zimmerman are EXACTLY like the same calling for his head without evidence.
:-\
In a trial Zimm will walk. The crybabies and race terrorists jumped the gun on this.
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So what happened to the call for waiting for the trial?
I guess the same people defending Zimmerman are EXACTLY like the same calling for his head without evidence.
:-\
Yeah, were all operating on assumptions right now. Everyone is waiting for the trial - this is all just bullshit. Its natural when one side is calling for someones head that youre going to get people arguing (myself included) especially when the evidence being released CONSTANTLY backs up his claims.
And I dont really think pointing out facts backing up Zimmermans story is really the same as calling for his head with little to no supporting evidence.
Whether he's actually guilty or not, is up to the trial of course.
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So what happened to the call for waiting for the trial?
I guess the same people defending Zimmerman are EXACTLY like the same calling for his head without evidence.
:-\
Not really. I just find it amusing that all the people like 240 who claimed there was no blood, that it was all bullshit are now looking more and more like the fools they are.
Rationality wins again. Lynch mobs don't.
Oh wait, Zimmerman might have been walking back to his car and tripped four or five times, landing on the back of his head each time and cutting it open. My bad. ::)
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Jesus Christ spin much? Evidence shows that TM initiated aggression 1st broseph. Zimmerman was beat the fuck up. Dude died on his face, shot through the front. Drop this whole "poor innocent kid strolling down the road got attacked and murdered", cause thats just you ignoring the facts.
what evidence is this?
btw - someone who had their head beaten on concrete should show some signs of swelling, bruising, etc.. and I didn't see any in the pic. Also seems very odd that the CMT would let a guy who suffered a serious head injury go without taking him to the hospital
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Jesus Christ spin much? Evidence shows that TM initiated aggression 1st broseph. Zimmerman was beat the fuck up. Dude died on his face, shot through the front. Drop this whole "poor innocent kid strolling down the road got attacked and murdered", cause thats just you ignoring the facts.
But he was...he didnt go looking for a fight.. he went looking for juice and skittles...
Who was the one to initiated contact... cmon..this aint that tough..
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what evidence is this?
btw - someone who had their head beaten on concrete should show some signs of swelling, bruising, etc.. and I didn't see any in the pic. Also seems very odd that the CMT would let a guy who suffered a serious head injury go without taking him to the hospital
Swelling and bruising in 3 minutes? Have you never played any sports or been in a fight? Protip: the swelling and bruising takes more than 3 minutes to come out. ::)
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Swelling and bruising in 3 minutes? Have you never played any sports or been in a fight? Protip: the swelling and bruising takes more than 3 minutes to come out. ::)
Sure the fuck doesnt.... Swelling happens almost instantly. And this isnt coming from someone who played 4 years of college football... this is from someone who watches boxing.. Someone gets socked and that shit swells inbetween rounds.... Tha fuck?
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But he was...he didnt go looking for a fight.. he went looking for juice and skittles...
Who was the one to initiated contact... cmon..this aint that tough..
FNG clueless.
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FNG clueless.
Awesome imput
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Sure the fuck doesnt.... Swelling happens almost instantly. And this isnt coming from someone who played 4 years of college football... this is from someone who watches boxing.. Someone gets socked and that shit swells inbetween rounds.... Tha fuck?
It sure the fuck does. Ever kicked bone-on-bone in martial arts? It takes more than a minute or two to welt up when it's the bone. You're talking about swelling on the face and around the eyes when there is nothing to swell on the back of the head. It's going to welt and that's going to take more than 3 minutes to come out. Certainly won't be able to tell when it's covered in blood.
Nevermind, Zimmerman tripped while walking back to his car, did a 180 in the air and landed on the back of his head....5 times.
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Sure the fuck doesnt.... Swelling happens almost instantly. And this isnt coming from someone who played 4 years of college football... this is from someone who watches boxing.. Someone gets socked and that shit swells inbetween rounds.... Tha fuck?
exactly and it sure as shit should have been showing by the time he got to the police station
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I'm sure everyone here at some time in their life had gotten hit on the head or even just bumped their head and had a "lump" or "bump" form almost immediately
I'm talking about something like hitting your head on a cabinet or something minor
nothing like getting your head slammed repeatedly into the concrete
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But he was...he didnt go looking for a fight.. he went looking for juice and skittles...
Who was the one to initiated contact... cmon..this aint that tough..
Youre arguing morality not legality. Whether it was right or wrong for Zimmerman to follow him isnt this issue, as its not illegal.
Contact isnt illegal. Violence is.
I can yell at you all I want, as soon as you strike me your the one in the wrong. Thats just how it is bro.
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I'm sure everyone here at some time in their life had gotten hit on the head or even just bumped their head and had a "lump" or "bump" form almost immediately
I'm talking about something like hitting your head on a cabinet or something minor
nothing like getting your head slammed repeatedly into the concrete
Did you have a lump form when you were bleeding out of the wound? Not likely as the lump comes from the blood pooling between the skin and the bone.
Never had one of those drained, have you? ::)
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Big Mal and 240 on suicide watch.
;D ;D ;D
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Did you have a lump form when you were bleeding out of the wound? Not likely as the lump comes from the blood pooling between the skin and the bone.
Never had one of those drained, have you? ::)
I've had very minor cuts on my head that bled a quite a bit.....just like Zimmerman
I've also been hit in the back of the head and had swelling start almost immediately
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It sure the fuck does. Ever kicked bone-on-bone in martial arts? It takes more than a minute or two to welt up when it's the bone. You're talking about swelling on the face and around the eyes when there is nothing to swell on the back of the head. It's going to welt and that's going to take more than 3 minutes to come out. Certainly won't be able to tell when it's covered in blood.
Nevermind, Zimmerman tripped while walking back to his car, did a 180 in the air and landed on the back of his head....5 times.
Na... some blood thirsty 175lber was looking for some shit to get into.. the hunt made him hungry and he got the preferred food of savages Skittles and Juice. And just as the hunt was drawing to an end, he found his prey... the rest is history...
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Na... some blood thirsty 175lber was looking for some shit to get into.. the hunt made him hungry and he got the preferred food of savages Skittles and Juice. And just as the hunt was drawing to an end, he found his prey... the rest is history...
Yup, he found his prey alright. It appears that Trayvon tried to play the tough guy and got himself shot. C'est la vie.
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Na... some blood thirsty 175lber was looking for some shit to get into.. the hunt made him hungry and he got the preferred food of savages Skittles and Juice. And just as the hunt was drawing to an end, he found his prey... the rest is history...
Good lord dude your acting like one kid was a saint and the other dude was evil. If Trayvon hadnt escalated the situation to violence (I.E. if he had laughed off the punk-ass mexican and walked away), he'd still be alive and this wouldnt be a story!
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Good lord dude your acting like one kid was a saint and the other dude was evil. If Trayvon hadnt escalated the situation to violence (I.E. if he had laughed off the punk-ass mexican and walked away), he'd still be alive and this wouldnt be a story!
and how do you know it happened that way
how do you know he wasn't trying to walk or run away and Zimmerman put his hands on him and tried to detain him and at that point Martin tried to defend himself
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and how do you know it happened that way
how do you know he wasn't trying to walk or run away and Zimmerman put his hands on him and tried to detain him and at that point Martin tried to defend himself
Im going off the story and the evidence released to form my hypothesis (I.E. that Zimmermans story has supporting evidence, the head wounds, TM being found dead on his face shot through the front, the neighbors eyewitness testimony talking about seeing Zimmerman on his back with TM attacking him on top).
And that whole innocent until proven guilty thing.
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Im going off the story and the evidence released to form my hypothesis (I.E. that Zimmermans story has supporting evidence, the head wounds, TM being found dead on his face shot through the front, the neighbors eyewitness testimony talking about seeing Zimmerman on his back with TM attacking him on top).
And that whole innocent until proven guilty thing.
what evidence supports this claim other than Zimmermans version of what happened
none of what you listed supports any story of the confrontation started or escalated
Also, isn't there witness that saw Zimmerman get up from on top of Martin right after the shooting?
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what evidence supports this claim other than Zimmermans version of what happened
none of what you listed supports any story of the confrontation started or escalated
Also, isn't there witness that saw Zimmerman get up from on top of Martin right after the shooting?
Not that im aware of. There may be - ive havent really been 100% keeping up with the case.
Like I said - innocent until proven guilty. Not enough evidence to suggest Zimmermans story is fabricated. Evidence from eyewitness' corroborating his story.
There is no 100% proof smoking gun positive that his story is completely true. But there IS evidence supporting most of it and next to zero against it.
Thats where my hypothesis comes from.
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Bond Hearing Testimony Reveals Huge Hole In State's Case Against George Zimmerman !
Sun-Sentinel ^ | Vanity
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 11:54:37 AM by MindBender26
Among all the coverage of Zimmerman being granted bail, most reporters are missing the most important detail of the day. The State's investigator admitted, under oath, that they have no way to disprove Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin started the flight and assaulted him.
The details are buried deep in the story, but they are crucial:
Gilbreath is the State's Investigator:
O'Mara is Zimmerman's attorney:
(from the story)
"During further questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed."
That speaks to, make that screams Stand Your Ground, and combined with new pictures of a bleeding and battered Zimmerman taken three minutes after the police arrived, it's all becoming so very clear to legal observers that Zimmerman walks on a SYG motion or at the least a SD verdict.
(Excerpt) Read more at southflorida.sun-sentinel.com ...
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Bond Hearing Testimony Reveals Huge Hole In State's Case Against George Zimmerman !
Sun-Sentinel ^ | Vanity
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 11:54:37 AM by MindBender26
Among all the coverage of Zimmerman being granted bail, most reporters are missing the most important detail of the day. The State's investigator admitted, under oath, that they have no way to disprove Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin started the flight and assaulted him.
The details are buried deep in the story, but they are crucial:
Gilbreath is the State's Investigator:
O'Mara is Zimmerman's attorney:
(from the story)
"During further questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed."
That speaks to, make that screams Stand Your Ground, and combined with new pictures of a bleeding and battered Zimmerman taken three minutes after the police arrived, it's all becoming so very clear to legal observers that Zimmerman walks on a SYG motion or at the least a SD verdict.
(Excerpt) Read more at southflorida.sun-sentinel.com ...
And therein lies the rub. There isnt enough evidence to disprove his story (if any), and theres plenty corroborating other parts of his story. I think theyre gonna have a hard time convicting him.
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he bled pretty badly. alcohol thins the blood a lot.
despite his history of alcohol abuse and stae-ordered counseling, they didn't test his BAC levels.
he slurred his words a bit (or he has 80 IQ, could be that too).
Also it was a sunday night in the projects and he's coming home from target in Florida. yeah, dude had a few drinks in him, let's be honest.
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he bled pretty badly. alcohol thins the blood a lot.
despite his history of alcohol abuse and stae-ordered counseling, they didn't test his BAC levels.
he slurred his words a bit (or he has 80 IQ, could be that too).
Also it was a sunday night in the projects and he's coming home from target in Florida. yeah, dude had a few drinks in him, let's be honest.
How in the holy fuck did you make the leap of logic from "history of alcohol abuse" (how much history by the way? How many offenses?) to "coming home from target = had drinks in him"?
Your making a HUGE logical leap with NO evidence substantiating anything.
And then saying "yeah, dude had a few drinks. Cause he was coming home from target." Jesus fucking Christ.
You realize you can get state ordered counseling from 1 DUI right?
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How in the holy fuck did you make the leap of logic from "history of alcohol abuse" to "coming home from target = had drinks in him"?
Your making a HUGE logical leap with NO evidence substantiating anything.
And then saying "yeah, dude had a few drinks. Cause he was coming home from target." Jesus fucking Christ.
180 , straw, option FAIL, andre, blackss, benny - are all on the ledge at being embarrassed once again.
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he should have been tested for BAC after the shooting. He was not.
After felony assault on LEO a few years back, the state required him to take alcohol counseling. FACT.
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180 , straw, option FAIL, andre, blackss, benny - are all on the ledge at being embarrassed once again.
Jesus dude.
You know how I know Zimmerman was drunk? Cause he was coming home from target. Duh. Since they didnt test him, and he was driving home from target, he was clearly drunk.
Not that the cops would have been able to tell if alcohol had been involved or not, cause pretty much every officer Ive ever met can tell instantly from talking to a person (breath and actions) if he's had some drinks.
::)
Christ 240, way to make yourself sound like a total moron.
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he should have been tested for BAC after the shooting. He was not.
After felony assault on LEO a few years back, the state required him to take alcohol counseling. FACT.
Not being tested =/= him using alcohol!
Christ! If the officers thought there was alcohol involved they would have tested, either based on smell from his breath or actions. If there is no signs of impairment - guess what, they dont test.
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he bled pretty badly. alcohol thins the blood a lot.
despite his history of alcohol abuse and stae-ordered counseling, they didn't test his BAC levels.
he slurred his words a bit (or he has 80 IQ, could be that too).
Also it was a sunday night in the projects and he's coming home from target in Florida. yeah, dude had a few drinks in him, let's be honest.
The projects? It's a gated community. ::)
You can't successfully back-up any of those claims.
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The projects? It's a gated community. ::)
You can successfully back-up any of those claims.
Never seen such an idiotic claim from ANYONE on this site, as him claiming Zimmerman was drunk because he was driving home from target in the "Projects" (read: gated community).
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Never seen such an idiotic claim from ANYONE on this site, as him claiming Zimmerman was drunk because he was driving home from target in the "Projects" (read: gated community).
Do they even sell booze at Target? They don't at the ones in CT.
Didn't you know that all projects are gated these days? Look at the word games this guy is playing to try to save face. Sad, isn't it?
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I think swelling depends on the person. It usually takes a while for me, but one of my kids gets a nasty bruise and swells up real quick.
Does anyone know if Trayvon was still on the phone with his girl when Zimmerman says he was attacked?
I mean really know (not "240 know").
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Not that im aware of. There may be - ive havent really been 100% keeping up with the case.
Like I said - innocent until proven guilty. Not enough evidence to suggest Zimmermans story is fabricated. Evidence from eyewitness' corroborating his story.
There is no 100% proof smoking gun positive that his story is completely true. But there IS evidence supporting most of it and next to zero against it.
Thats where my hypothesis comes from.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/justice/florida-teen-shooting-witnesses/index.html
Mary Cutcher was in her kitchen making coffee that night with her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla. The window was open, she said.
"We heard a whining. Not like a crying, boohoo, but like a whining, someone in distress, and then the gunshot," she said.
They looked out the window but saw nothing. It was dark.
They ran out the sliding glass door, and within seconds, they saw Zimmerman.
"Zimmerman was standing over the body with -- basically straddling the body with his hands on Trayvon's back," Cutcher said. "And it didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way. I didn't hear any struggle prior to the gunshot.
"And I feel like it was Trayvon Martin that was crying out, because the minute that the gunshot went off, the whining stopped."
The two women said they could not see whether Zimmerman was bruised or hurt. It was too dark.
"Selma asked him three times, 'what's going on over there?' " Cutcher said. "He looks back and doesn't say anything. She asks him again, 'everything OK? What's going on?' Same thing: looked at us, looked back. Finally, the third time, he said, 'just call the police.' "
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/justice/florida-teen-shooting-witnesses/index.html
Ok. How does that match up with the eyewitness that stated that Zimmerman was on his back, he grabbed the phone to call 911, and then he heard the gunshot and TM was face first on the ground?
Sounds more like that he got out from under TM after he shot him, no? (if you combine both eyewitness stories)
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Ok. How does that match up with the eyewitness that stated that Zimmerman was on his back, he grabbed the phone to call 911, and then he heard the gunshot and TM was face first on the ground?
Sounds more like that he got out from under TM after he shot him, no? (if you combine both eyewitness stories)
From what I gather, she's the only witness making those claims, too. There are multiple other witnesses all saying that Zimmerman was on his back. Also to note is that none of those people were rushing to be on national TV with their claims like the woman. ::)
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Ok. How does that match up with the eyewitness that stated that Zimmerman was on his back, he grabbed the phone to call 911, and then he heard the gunshot and TM was face first on the ground?
Sounds more like that he got out from under TM after he shot him, no? (if you combine both eyewitness stories)
No, you're doing it wrong.
You have to selectively pick and choose evidence to make the Half-White guy look guilty.
Then you have to selectively put up side-by-side photos...
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Not being tested =/= him using alcohol!
Christ! If the officers thought there was alcohol involved they would have tested, either based on smell from his breath or actions. If there is no signs of impairment - guess what, they dont test.
I dunno. The officers/detectives invovled wanted to charge him - they were overruled. So I can't credit that sanford PD with much.
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No, you're doing it wrong.
You have to selectively pick and choose evidence to make the Half-White guy look guilty.
Then you have to selectively put up side-by-side photos...
Damn, youre right.
I should have just gone with the 240 school of thought - just come up with a conclusion with no supporting evidence and then pass it off as fact, cause "I said so".
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I dunno. The officers/detectives invovled wanted to charge him - they were overruled. So I can't credit that sanford PD with much.
Ok, and how does this have anything to do with your claims Zimmerman had alcohol in his system? Cause the officers/detectives wanted to CHARGE someone who had just KILLED another human, but were overruled after the investigation?
Somehow that is proof to you that he had alcohol in his blood?
After all, youre the one that said "Also it was a sunday night in the projects and he's coming home from target in Florida. yeah, dude had a few drinks in him, let's be honest."
You said this! YOU. SAID. THIS!
Lets be honest, shall we? Yes, lets. ::) ::) ::)
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if i had to bet $50, its my belief he had at least 1 beer in him. that's just my personal opinion.
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if i had to bet $50, its my belief he had at least 1 beer in him. that's just my personal opinion.
I hear aspirin thins the blood too. I believe he was doubling up on his ECA stack getting ready for the summer and probably had one 16 oz. tallboy.
Probably a Miller Lite brand from the way the blood trails kinda off to the left on the back of his head.
That's my assertion.
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Ok. How does that match up with the eyewitness that stated that Zimmerman was on his back, he grabbed the phone to call 911, and then he heard the gunshot and TM was face first on the ground?
Sounds more like that he got out from under TM after he shot him, no? (if you combine both eyewitness stories)
you've mentioned this a few times but never provided a link
which eyewitness was this ?
the link I gave you to the CNN article has an anonymous witness that saw part of the scuffle and wasn't able to identify either person at the time he saw on the ground
Is that the witness you're referring to or is it someone else
Anonymous witness
A witness who asked not to be identified, even by gender, told CNN's Anderson Cooper about hearing voices outside in an area where neighborhood residents often walk their dogs and wondering, "Oh, my gosh, who's out there walking their dog in the rain?"
Then the witness heard a "very loud, predominant voice" and opened the window.
"I couldn't hear the words, but it was like, OK, this is not a regular conversation. This is someone aggressively, you know, yelling at someone."
The witness recalled seeing two men on the grass, one on top of the other.
"And at that point, not looking out the window, I heard the yell for help, one yell for help, and then I heard another ... excruciating type of yell," the witness said. "It didn't almost sound like 'help.' It just sounded so painful. But I wasn't watching out the window during that. And then the next time I looked out the window, there's the same thing: two men on the grass, one on top of each other. I couldn't see a lot of movement. It was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard the gunshots, which, to me, were more like pops than they were like a bang."
The witness recalled hearing more than one shot. "It definitely was more than one pop noise, so I don't know if it was an echo or anything else. But it definitely made more than one pop."
Then one of the men, who appeared to be Hispanic, started walking toward the witness' vantage point, the witness said. Zimmerman is Hispanic.
"He didn't appear hurt or anything else," the witness said.
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so this anonymous witness didn't see bloody broken nose, or busted/split bloody head, but saw the fight huh?
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From what I gather, she's the only witness making those claims, too. There are multiple other witnesses all saying that Zimmerman was on his back. Also to note is that none of those people were rushing to be on national TV with their claims like the woman. ::)
I haven't seen any of these multiple witness statements
can you post a link
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you've mentioned this a few times but never provided a link
which eyewitness was this ?
the link I gave you to the CNN article has an anonymous witness that saw part of the scuffle and wasn't able to identify either person at the time he saw on the ground
Is that the witness you're referring to or is it someone else
Similar but not the same one. I'll find it. One I'm talking about dude watched out the window then tried to call 911
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Similar but not the same one. I'll find it. One I'm talking about dude watched out the window then tried to call 911
any of the "multiple other witnesses all saying that Zimmerman was on his back" will be fine
btw - you agree I assume that this still provides no evidence of who initiated the altercation or if in fact Zimmerman life was in danger
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any of the "multiple other witnesses all saying that Zimmerman was on his back" will be fine
btw - you agree I assume that this still provides no evidence of who initiated the altercation or if in fact Zimmerman life was in danger
Of course.
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Found it.
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
Updated: Monday, 26 Mar 2012, 2:57 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT
ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.
The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.
Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.
It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.
Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
But one man's testimony could be key for the police.
"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.
The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.
His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.
Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.
Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting
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http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
Video of said article.
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Found it.
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
Updated: Monday, 26 Mar 2012, 2:57 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT
ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.
The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.
Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.
It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.
Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
But one man's testimony could be key for the police.
"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.
The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.
His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.
Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.
Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting
thanks - I haven't seen this before
Since this article preceded the CNN article I wonder why they didn't include it since they included another anonymous witness
If this goes to trial this persons testimony will certainly be helpful support Zimmermans claim of self defense
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the prosecutor had this info and still chose to prosecute. She did not find him credible, it would seem.
or, maybe you have some conspiracy theory that 'the system' is out to get zimmerman here?
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thanks - I haven't seen this before
Since this article preceded the CNN article I wonder why they didn't include it since they included another anonymous witness
If this goes to trial this persons testimony will certainly be helpful support Zimmermans claim of self defense
Yeah - I think this witness may be the cornerstone of testimony. The others saw varying degrees of the altercation, but none had a clear image like this man claims to have.
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the prosecutor had this info and still chose to prosecute. She did not find him credible, it would seem.
or, maybe you have some conspiracy theory that 'the system' is out to get zimmerman here?
Prosecutors jobs are to prosecute. She wants to make a name for herself - this may be the trial of the year. Clearly you missed the story (posted here in this thread) where the prosecutor admitted she couldnt refute ANY of Zimmermans story (regarding the attack) at the bail hearing.
More and more bullshit from you.
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the prosecutor had this info and still chose to prosecute. She did not find him credible, it would seem.
or, maybe you have some conspiracy theory that 'the system' is out to get zimmerman here?
Bond Hearing Testimony Reveals Huge Hole In State's Case Against George Zimmerman !
Sun-Sentinel ^ | Vanity
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 11:54:37 AM by MindBender26
Among all the coverage of Zimmerman being granted bail, most reporters are missing the most important detail of the day. The State's investigator admitted, under oath, that they have no way to disprove Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin started the flight and assaulted him.
The details are buried deep in the story, but they are crucial:
Gilbreath is the State's Investigator:
O'Mara is Zimmerman's attorney:
(from the story)
"During further questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed."
That speaks to, make that screams Stand Your Ground, and combined with new pictures of a bleeding and battered Zimmerman taken three minutes after the police arrived, it's all becoming so very clear to legal observers that Zimmerman walks on a SYG motion or at the least a SD verdict.
(Excerpt) Read more at southflorida.sun-sentinel.com ...
........
Are you done making a fool of yourself yet?
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Prosecutors jobs are to prosecute. Clearly you missed the story (posted here in this thread) where the prosecutor admitted she couldnt refute ANY of Zimmermans story (regarding the attack) at the bail hearing.
More and more bullshit from you.
Zimmerman could have claimed aliens attacked. She can't refute that either.
All she can do is try to prove her theory, which is that zimmerman profiled TM (by callling him one of these assholes breaking in), activaely pursued him (which we know he did despite 911 suggestions), then murdered him. #1 and #2 are already proven. There is no disputing Zimm didn't sit in his truck or that he thought TM was one of those assholes breaking in.
And in the end, while i believe it was a legal shoot, I think zimm gets manslaughter for one reason, and one reason alone - cause he's a liar. Exaggerating shit to the 911 operator, exaggerating how long he was beaten, etc. He's gonna do 8 years in prison cause he can't open his mouth without lying to a cop lol
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*hangs head*
240, Im really starting to believe you have that complex where people cant differentiate fantasy from reality. You ignore facts or discredit them but expect everyone to accept your completely baseless claims without question.
They have pills for that bro.
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Dershowitz Blasts Zimmerman Prosecution: 'Not Only Immoral, But Stupid'
Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School told Breitbart News today, "I've had cases in Florida against prosecutors, and this is not the first time they have willfully omitted exculpatory evidence. It's a continuing problem. Here, it’s not only immoral, but stupid. The whole country is watching. What do they benefit from having half-truths in an affidavit?"
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With ABC News’ release of the George Zimmerman photo showing blood flowing freely from his head, the question becomes whether Angela Corey, the prosecutor in the case, had access to the photo before charging Zimmerman with second-degree murder.
The arrest affidavit did not mention the photograph, or the bleeding, gashes, and bruises on Zimmermans’ head. Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School stated upon release of the arrest affidavit that it was “so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge … everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense.”
After the release of the photo, however, Dershowitz went much further, telling Breitbart News that if the prosecutors did have the photo and didn’t mention it in the affidavit, that would constitute a “grave ethical violation,” since affidavits are supposed to contain “all relevant information.”
Dershowitz continued, “An affidavit that willfully misstates undisputed evidence known to the prosecution is not only unethical but borders on perjury because an affiant swears to tell not only the truth, but the whole truth, and suppressing an important part of the whole truth is a lie."
When asked if it made a difference whether the prosecution had the bloody photograph at the time they charged Zimmerman, Dershowitz responded, “We do know that there were earlier photographs before the affidavit was done that strongly suggested blood on the back of the head, and we know the police had first access to him, so if there was blood they [the prosecution] would know about it …
"I've had cases in Florida against prosecutors,” Dershowitz said, “and this is not the first time they have willfully omitted exculpatory evidence. It's a continuing problem. Here, it’s not only immoral, but stupid. The whole country is watching. What do they benefit from having half-truths in an affidavit?"
Dershowitz added, "I'm not taking sides, but I'm insisting that both sides play by the rules, and so far the prosecution is not playing by the rules."
Go ahead 240, keep using your "Well the prosecutor chose to prosecute so there must be something there" lines....
The best part is that you throw our CT's with no evidence yet scoff at thinking the prosecution may be in for him.
You make no sense.
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(http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dog2.jpg)
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you people are fucking psychotic. 5 fucking pages on this bullshit? You people care this much about this crap? Fuck... I need a few more weeks away... ::)
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you people are fucking psychotic. 5 fucking pages on this bullshit? You people care this much about this crap? Fuck... I need a few more weeks away... ::)
There are plenty of threads for you to post in that are not dealing with Zimm.
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you people are fucking psychotic. 5 fucking pages on this bullshit? You people care this much about this crap? Fuck... I need a few more weeks away... ::)
I am terribly guilty of allowing myself to get pulled back.
I do it every fucking time I see a lie from 240's mouth, its like a moth to a flame with me.... drives me nuts.
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral
240, Mal, Benny, Andre, Straw - ON THE LEDGE
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral
240, Mal, Benny, Andre, Straw - ON THE LEDGE
Yeah I just posted that a couple up.
Interesting stuff.
Stupid prosecutor trying to make a name for herself moved forward when she cant even discount his story. How does she expect to win if she has to prove him guilty? How can she prove his guilt when she willfully admits she cant prove his story wrong? Lol
How much you wanna bet she went for the 2nd degree with plans on dropping it to something minor, hoping to play off peoples emotions?
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Yeah I just posted that a couple up.
Interesting stuff.
Stupid prosecutor trying to make a name for herself moved forward when she cant even discount his story. How does she expect to win if she has to prove him guilty? How can she prove his guilt when she willfully admits she cant prove his story wrong? Lol
How much you wanna bet she went for the 2nd degree with plans on dropping it to something minor, hoping to play off peoples emotions?
I said that the very day remember?
Plus, what I heard today in that courtroom was a joke. It was actually embarassing to hear the DA act like that.
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I said that the very day remember?
Plus, what I heard today in that courtroom was a joke. It was actually embarassing to hear the DA act like that.
No doubt. What kind of self-respecting prosecutor goes to a judge and says "Well I cant prove his story wrong, but I still want to charge him cause I said so!".
She must operate in 240 land.
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral
240, Mal, Benny, Andre, Straw - ON THE LEDGE
only one on the ledge is you on a daily basis
btw - Dershowitz is usually a defense attorney so it's not suprising he would have issues with the prosecution.
Has he seen anything more that what's been released in the media
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only one on the ledge is you on a daily basis
btw - Dershowitz is usually a defense attorney so it's not suprising he would have issues with the prosecution.
Has he seen anything more that what's been released in the media
Did you see what happened in the bail trial today? The prosecutor actually admitted she cannot prove Zimmerman wrong. Seems like thats pretty much admitting she cant prove him guilty. (considering to prove him guilty she has to prove his story didnt happen the way he said he did.) Unless she's going to try and convict him solely on the fact that he killed someone and hope to god that the judges forget about self-defense laws.
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Did you see what happened in the bail trial today? The prosecutor actually admitted she cannot prove Zimmerman wrong. Seems like thats pretty much admitting she cant prove him guilty.
didn't see it so can't comment on it yet
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Here you go.
Bond Hearing Testimony Reveals Huge Hole In State's Case Against George Zimmerman !
Sun-Sentinel ^ | Vanity
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 11:54:37 AM by MindBender26
Among all the coverage of Zimmerman being granted bail, most reporters are missing the most important detail of the day. The State's investigator admitted, under oath, that they have no way to disprove Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin started the flight and assaulted him.
The details are buried deep in the story, but they are crucial:
Gilbreath is the State's Investigator:
O'Mara is Zimmerman's attorney:
(from the story)
"During further questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed."
That speaks to, make that screams Stand Your Ground, and combined with new pictures of a bleeding and battered Zimmerman taken three minutes after the police arrived, it's all becoming so very clear to legal observers that Zimmerman walks on a SYG motion or at the least a SD verdict.
(Excerpt) Read more at southflorida.sun-sentinel.com ...
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I'm sure they will try
I would expect so at least
Are you really on the side of the sinking ship still? What the fuck is wrong with you people. Seriously.
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Are you really on the side of the sinking ship still? What the fuck is wrong with you people. Seriously.
I"m not on either side
I've said many times that I don't know who started the fight or how it escalated
I'm for finding out the truth as best as that can possibly be done
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my whole issue was the guy not being arrested to begin with. 1 guy kills another guy and there is no initial 3rd party witness to testify to self defense... the only story is from the guy with the gun in his hand... that guy gets arrested and the investegation starts.
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my whole issue was the guy not being arrested to begin with. 1 guy kills another guy and there is no initial 3rd party witness to testify to self defense... the only story is from the guy with the gun in his hand... that guy gets arrested and the investegation starts.
no - because then the DA has to make a charging indictment and so far, as we are seeing, THERE IS NOTHING against Zimm at all. That is why there was no grand jury.
He is going to walk.
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no - because then the DA has to make a charging indictment and so far, as we are seeing, THERE IS NOTHING against Zimm at all. That is why there was no grand jury.
He is going to walk.
So he will be able to get off and vote OBAMA AGAIN...
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my whole issue was the guy not being arrested to begin with. 1 guy kills another guy and there is no initial 3rd party witness to testify to self defense... the only story is from the guy with the gun in his hand... that guy gets arrested and the investegation starts.
I have no issue with that - I believe the only reason they didnt arrest him is because they had evidence that things werent as they were claimed to be. I read an article stating that for an arrest to happen, someone has to have committed a crime. Killing someone in self-defense is not considered a crime, and since they didnt have any evidence to the contrary, they couldnt (and didnt) arrest him.
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no - because then the DA has to make a charging indictment and so far, as we are seeing, THERE IS NOTHING against Zimm at all. That is why there was no grand jury.
He is going to walk.
come on 333 - you know that there was no grand jury because she wasn't going for 1rst degree murder (i.e. no proof that it was willful and premeditated which I think everyone can agree with) so she didn't need one
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my whole issue was the guy not being arrested to begin with. 1 guy kills another guy and there is no initial 3rd party witness to testify to self defense... the only story is from the guy with the gun in his hand... that guy gets arrested and the investegation starts.
Are you blind? Did you not see what I posted. That is just one of many witnesses that saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.
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Are you blind? Did you not see what I posted. That is just one of many witnesses that saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.
again... whose to say that zimmerman didnt start it and trayvon respond...
yeah they say the altercation well into it... but if there isnt a witness that says "zimmerman was walking away and got hit", its Zimmerman's word vs the Dead kid's
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again... whose to say that zimmerman didnt start it and trayvon respond...
yeah they say the altercation well into it... but if there isnt a witness that says "zimmerman was walking away and got hit", its Zimmerman's word vs the Dead kid's
And that is reasonable doubt and zimm walks.
Take your emotions out of it.
Murder was the wrong charge here. Manslaughter or negligenthomicide, but not murder.
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Murder was the wrong charge here. Manslaughter or negligenthomicide, but not murder.
do you think zimm committed manslaughter or neg hom?
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do you think zimm committed manslaughter or neg hom?
No. But it would have been a better case to make.
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And that is reasonable doubt and zimm walks.
Take your emotions out of it.
Murder was the wrong charge here. Manslaughter or negligenthomicide, but not murder.
my emotions arent in it... you see the post above correct?.,..It has nothing to do with emotions.. where the fuck are you getting that?
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my emotions arent in it... you see the post above correct?.,..It has nothing to do with emotions.. where the fuck are you getting that?
Yes it is. Your emotions are caught up in this as any sensible person realizes that Zimm didnt MURDER Trayvon.
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Yes it is. Your emotions are caught up in this as any sensible person realizes that Zimm didnt MURDER Trayvon.
and again.. from that post... where do you get emotion.....ok...ill walk you through this.,. as you are quite possibly a retard.
This was my gripe...
If person A kills person B... and the only account of the incident is from person A... at that time, Person A should be arrested pending investigation.
Now.. if person A said person B attacked him... but there arent any witnesses to back that up.. Then person A should still be jailed.
Now.. if there is a witness that says person B was on top of person A, but didnt see how it was sparked off, it still doesnt speak to who STARTED the altercation.. I cant run up on Mike Tyson, get hella beat up ... and shoot him.. and yell self defense.
That has nothing to do with emotion and me... unlike you... im rational...
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Yes it is. Your emotions are caught up in this as any sensible person realizes that Zimm didnt MURDER Trayvon.
can you see why people believe zimm did murder him?
he called the kid a fucking asshole.
he pursued a minor into the dark, knowing he was armed.
he knew trained LEO were almost there, but he wanted to do it himself.
he believed he had history with the kid (these assholes breaking in).
he believed TM was a drug abuser?
Now to me, i CAN see why some people cry murder on this one.
He believed this was a house burglar on drugs with somethign in his hand from waistband - and he pursues then confronts him with a glock before police can get there. Looks pretty bad. Read that bolded part over and over.
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and again.. from that post... where do you get emotion.....ok...ill walk you through this.,. as you are quite possibly a retard.
This was my gripe...
If person A kills person B... and the only account of the incident is from person A... at that time, Person A should be arrested pending investigation.
Now.. if person A said person B attacked him... but there arent any witnesses to back that up.. Then person A should still be jailed.
Now.. if there is a witness that says person B was on top of person A, but didnt see how it was sparked off, it still doesnt speak to who STARTED the altercation.. I cant run up on Mike Tyson, get hella beat up ... and shoot him.. and yell self defense.
That has nothing to do with emotion and me... unlike you... im rational...
LOL - funny how you didnt mention the bloody head once in that word salad and the fact that Zimm's story is completely consistent.
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LOL - funny how you didnt mention the bloody head once in that word salad and the fact that Zimm's story is completely consistent.
his story? about the confrontation, right?
I'm referring to his intent as he believed this was a house burglar on drugs with somethign in his hand from waistband - and he pursues then confronts him with a glock before police can get there
Was he on a mission to confront and punish a house burglar before the popo arrived? Sure fcking looks like it.
His story is only consistent cause trayvon is dead. If he got winged, we'd be hearing 2 very diff stories right now.
SO his ass does deserve to be on trial - and he's not there because of what happened once they were 2 feet from each other. It's cause he was the one who wore a gun to follow a minor in the dark, and move it from 200 feet to 2 feet in a hurry before police got there.
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LOL - funny how you didnt mention the bloody head once in that word salad and the fact that Zimm's story is completely consistent.
I dont give a shit if i approached Mike Tyson..and started shit... and got beat up for 3 min... and i shot Tyson after that.. i can say "yeah i got my ass kicked for 2 min and my god damn eye was punched out" the fact remains.. that 1)mike isnt alive to tell his side of the story and 2) even if i got beat up, i could have still started the shit...
Please explain to me what you dont understand
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Do you understand.. any injuries he sustained while getting whooped means nothing if he started the altercation.. that, we will never know as the other side of the story is lying 6 feet deep...
now let me hear your lame ass argument
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Do you understand.. any injuries he sustained while getting whooped means nothing if he started the altercation.. that, we will never know as the other side of the story is lying 6 feet deep...
now let me hear your lame ass argument
Why Trayvon’s killer should be acquitted
suntimes.com ^ | 24 April, 2012 | Jacob Sullum
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:31:39 AM by marktwain
Critics of Florida’s self-defense law object to its recognition of a right to “stand your ground” in public places, which eliminated the duty to retreat from an assailant. Yet many of these critics seem to believe they have a duty to stand their ground and never retreat, using George Zimmerman’s shooting of Trayvon Martin as a weapon to attack Florida’s law, no matter what the evidence shows.
The emphasis on the right to stand your ground is puzzling in the context of the Martin case, since Zimmerman’s defense does not seem to rely on it. The 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, who was released on bail this week after being charged with second-degree murder in connection with the Feb. 26 shooting in Sanford, told police the unarmed teenager knocked him down with a punch to the face and pinned him to the ground, repeatedly smacking his head against the pavement. By Zimmerman’s account, then, he had no opportunity to retreat.
Florida’s law also has been blamed for delaying Zimmerman’s arrest, and it did require that police have probable cause to believe the shooting was unlawful. But this is the same standard that applies to arrests for all other crimes.
One unusual aspect of Florida’s law that will be apparent in this case is that Zimmerman has a right to a pretrial hearing at which he can try to convince Judge Kenneth Lester, by “a preponderance of the evidence,” that he acted in self-defense. If he can meet that standard of proof, which requires showing it is more likely than not that his use of force was appropriate, the charge against him will be dismissed. But even if he went to trial, he would be (or at least should be) acquitted with that much evidence in his favor, since the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he wasn’t acting in self-defense — which, as Northern Kentucky University law professor Michael J.Z. Mannheimer pointed out, would be true “in virtually every state.”
Zimmerman’s defense is that he was attacked and “reasonably believe[d]” shooting Martin was “necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.” Contrary to New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who is leading a national campaign against Florida-style self-defense laws, that does not mean people “make their own decisions as to whether someone is threatening or not” and therefore have “a license to murder.” The threat assessment has to be reasonable.
Even if the Trayvon Martin case does not really illustrate the shortcomings of Florida’s law, it is possible that eliminating the duty to retreat in public places, combined with reinforcing the “castle doctrine” (which applies to home invasions) and extending it to vehicles, has encouraged avoidable escalations of violence. The law’s opponents note that the annual number of justifiable homicides in Florida (excluding police shootings) nearly tripled after the law was passed in 2005, from an average of 12 from 2000 to 2004 to an average of 35 from 2006 to 2010.
Still, you would expect to see an increase in homicides deemed to be justified even if the law were working as intended. The crucial question, which the task force appointed last week by Gov. Rick Scott presumably will ask, is whether these homicides should be deemed justified.
It is worth noting that Florida’s violent crime rate, which fell 12 percent in the five years before the “stand your ground” law was enacted, fell 23 percent in the five years afterward. Since 1987, when Florida adopted a nondiscretionary carry permit law that the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence blames for “year after year of carnage,” the state’s violent crime rate has been cut nearly in half.
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trayvon didn't take it from 200 feet to 2 feet. Zimm did.
look at where his truck is. Look at 2 blocks away where trayvon died.
Trayvon didn't drag zimm there. ZImm brought himself 2 blocks with a gun in his ready, trying to beat the police there. AFTER he told the 911 operator he'd wait in the truck at mailboxes.
that 911 tape is going to be why he goes to jail here.
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Why Trayvon’s killer should be acquitted
suntimes.com ^ | 24 April, 2012 | Jacob Sullum
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:31:39 AM by marktwain
Critics of Florida’s self-defense law object to its recognition of a right to “stand your ground” in public places, which eliminated the duty to retreat from an assailant. Yet many of these critics seem to believe they have a duty to stand their ground and never retreat, using George Zimmerman’s shooting of Trayvon Martin as a weapon to attack Florida’s law, no matter what the evidence shows.
The emphasis on the right to stand your ground is puzzling in the context of the Martin case, since Zimmerman’s defense does not seem to rely on it. The 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, who was released on bail this week after being charged with second-degree murder in connection with the Feb. 26 shooting in Sanford, told police the unarmed teenager knocked him down with a punch to the face and pinned him to the ground, repeatedly smacking his head against the pavement. By Zimmerman’s account, then, he had no opportunity to retreat.
Florida’s law also has been blamed for delaying Zimmerman’s arrest, and it did require that police have probable cause to believe the shooting was unlawful. But this is the same standard that applies to arrests for all other crimes.
One unusual aspect of Florida’s law that will be apparent in this case is that Zimmerman has a right to a pretrial hearing at which he can try to convince Judge Kenneth Lester, by “a preponderance of the evidence,” that he acted in self-defense. If he can meet that standard of proof, which requires showing it is more likely than not that his use of force was appropriate, the charge against him will be dismissed. But even if he went to trial, he would be (or at least should be) acquitted with that much evidence in his favor, since the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he wasn’t acting in self-defense — which, as Northern Kentucky University law professor Michael J.Z. Mannheimer pointed out, would be true “in virtually every state.”
Zimmerman’s defense is that he was attacked and “reasonably believe[d]” shooting Martin was “necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.” Contrary to New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who is leading a national campaign against Florida-style self-defense laws, that does not mean people “make their own decisions as to whether someone is threatening or not” and therefore have “a license to murder.” The threat assessment has to be reasonable.
Even if the Trayvon Martin case does not really illustrate the shortcomings of Florida’s law, it is possible that eliminating the duty to retreat in public places, combined with reinforcing the “castle doctrine” (which applies to home invasions) and extending it to vehicles, has encouraged avoidable escalations of violence. The law’s opponents note that the annual number of justifiable homicides in Florida (excluding police shootings) nearly tripled after the law was passed in 2005, from an average of 12 from 2000 to 2004 to an average of 35 from 2006 to 2010.
Still, you would expect to see an increase in homicides deemed to be justified even if the law were working as intended. The crucial question, which the task force appointed last week by Gov. Rick Scott presumably will ask, is whether these homicides should be deemed justified.
It is worth noting that Florida’s violent crime rate, which fell 12 percent in the five years before the “stand your ground” law was enacted, fell 23 percent in the five years afterward. Since 1987, when Florida adopted a nondiscretionary carry permit law that the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence blames for “year after year of carnage,” the state’s violent crime rate has been cut nearly in half.
um.,....ok.. what is YOUR REBUTTLE... to what was stated above... dont do your cut and paste job.. you fuckin hack
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One unusual aspect of Florida’s law that will be apparent in this case is that Zimmerman has a right to a pretrial hearing at which he can try to convince Judge Kenneth Lester, by “a preponderance of the evidence,” that he acted in self-defense. If he can meet that standard of proof, which requires showing it is more likely than not that his use of force was appropriate, the charge against him will be dismissed. But even if he went to trial, he would be (or at least should be) acquitted with that much evidence in his favor, since the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he wasn’t acting in self-defense — which, as Northern Kentucky University law professor Michael J.Z. Mannheimer pointed out, would be true “in virtually every state.”
________________________ _________
Getting your head bashed into the concrete equals reasonable fear for your life.
Again - this is going to be twanny brawly all over again pimped by the race terrorists.
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Getting your head bashed into the concrete equals reasonable fear for your life.
The problem here is that he did everything he could to cause a confrontation with a minor - couldn't fight - and shot his way out of it. He caused it all. Any of us can do it. I can walk up to a 10 year old, ,call his mom a whore, and after he punches me once in nose, I flip back, crack my head, and shoot him fill off holes. All legal. nah nah nah, right?
Again - this is going to be twanny brawly all over again pimped by the race terrorists.
Aside from the fact that 'race terrorists' is about the cheesiest and most crybaby phrase ever, are you sure YOU should be one to lecture on terrorism? You've told us you find nuclear terrorism hilarious:
If a nuke went off in DC and took out all of these criminals and traitors, I would celebrate loudly.
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The problem here is that he did everything he could to cause a confrontation with a minor - couldn't fight - and shot his way out of it. He caused it all. Any of us can do it. I can walk up to a 10 year old, ,call his mom a whore, and after he punches me once in nose, I flip back, crack my head, and shoot him fill off holes. All legal. nah nah nah, right?
Aside from the fact that 'race terrorists' is about the cheesiest and most crybaby phrase ever, are you sure YOU should be one to lecture on terrorism? You've told us you find nuclear terrorism hilarious:
I said that? Awesome!
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my emotions arent in it... you see the post above correct?.,..It has nothing to do with emotions.. where the fuck are you getting that?
Your emotions are definitely in it. You just made the defense's case as to why he should be acquitted. You and your lynch mob buddies like 240 still can't prove a single claim you're making.
I don't blame you, though. There was some dipshit from Salon writing that Zimmerman should be convicted regardless so that we don't have race riots because leftists have no problem with ignoring the rule of law in this country.
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The state has admitted it can't contradict Zimmerman's side of the story...I don't see how they're going to get a conviction under those circumstances. Do I think Zimmerman's responsible for the young man's death? Yes...he had no business going on "patrol" with a gun, no business exiting the vehicle and the basis for his suspicions about Martin's actions appear to be based on his race and style of dress. From a philosphical and moral POV there's no doubt in my mind that he's culpable. However...this is a criminal proceeding. Philosphy and right and wrong are not the issue here...the letter of the law and the State's ability to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt are the issues.
Zimmerman is going to walk....
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Your emotions are definitely in it. You just made the defense's case as to why he should be acquitted. You and your lynch mob buddies like 240 still can't prove a single claim you're making.
I don't blame you, though. There was some dipshit from Salon writing that Zimmerman should be convicted regardless so that we don't have race riots because leftists have no problem with ignoring the rule of law in this country.
What claim am i making.. what did i say above that made a case....i just gave accurate stats.. on what we know
Person A killed person B
Person A has a self defense claim that cant be proven
Person A says Person B confronted him, but who knows, as person B is Dead
Person A says look i got beat up.. it proves i was attacked..
But what isnt seen is who initiated it.
If i run up on you and talk crazy and then you haul off and whoop my ass.. i cant cant shoot you and say self defense.
My my gripe all along is, if someone is shot someone needs to be arrested.
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Option F - do you understand the ideas and meaning of "Probable Cause" as well as "Beyond all Reasonable Doubt" ?
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I am still in disbelief at anyone clinging to innocent Trayvon fantasies. Its as if they want to live in a world where you can`t defend yourself and they think that attacking someone is just fine as long as you limit the beating.
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The state has admitted it can't contradict Zimmerman's side of the story...I don't see how they're going to get a conviction under those circumstances. Do I think Zimmerman's responsible for the young man's death? Yes...he had no business going on "patrol" with a gun, no business exiting the vehicle and the basis for his suspicions about Martin's actions appear to be based on his race and style of dress. From a philosphical and moral POV there's no doubt in my mind that he's culpable. However...this is a criminal proceeding. Philosphy and right and wrong are not the issue here...the letter of the law and the State's ability to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt are the issues.
Zimmerman is going to walk....
Hey, someone actually gets it!
Unlike 240 who continues to lie, twist facts, and projecting intent into Zimmermans actions to make him a murderer.
240, you are pathetic. Yet again, about 40-60% of your words are outright bullshit.
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I am still in disbelief at anyone clinging to innocent Trayvon fantasies. Its as if they want to live in a world where you can`t defend yourself and they think that attacking someone is just fine as long as you limit the beating.
Exactly. One would have to be completely delusional to believe that at this point.
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Exactly. One would have to be completely delusional to believe that at this point.
People are sheep bro, they just think "Evil guy shot poor kid walking home from school!" because thats what the 5 o'clock news said.
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Option F - do you understand the ideas and meaning of "Probable Cause" as well as "Beyond all Reasonable Doubt" ?
arrest- investegate- exonerate
thats what i was saying you fucking idiot...
that if someone kills someone else..and there is no account of the situation from start to end.. then the killer needs to be arrested
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arrest- investegate- exonerate
thats what i was saying you fucking idiot...
that if someone kills someone else..and there is no account of the situation from start to end.. then the killer needs to be arrested
Arrest him for what? The cops felt there was no PROBABLE CAUSE for an arrest becaus they felt it was valid self defense claim given the evidence at hand.
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Arrest him for what? The cops felt there was no PROBABLE CAUSE for an arrest becaus they felt it was valid self defense claim given the evidence at hand.
how about negligent homicide
he created the situation where he then felt compelled to use deadly force
I still have a hard time understanding how deadly force was necessary when he had no injuries that required transport to the hospital.
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how about negligent homicide
he created the situation where he then felt compelled to use deadly force
I still have a hard time understanding how deadly force was necessary when he had no injuries that required transport to the hospital.
no - what created the situation was trayvon physically attacking Zimm and smashing his head on the concrete, THEREBY CREATING REASONABLE FEAR FOR HIS LIFE.
Its amazing the lengths you leftist clowns go to avoid reality.
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how about negligent homicide
he created the situation where he then felt compelled to use deadly force
I still have a hard time understanding how deadly force was necessary when he had no injuries that required transport to the hospital.
Escalation of force is based on a percieved threat to health - if he was under the guy and adrenaline was flowing, and he was scared this dude was not going to stop until his head was split open on the concrete, then that is a fair escalation of force. Its not like he could know how far it was going to go - its not like he's going to wait to see if the guy stops slamming his head onto the concrete.
Decisions under duress are given a lot of leeway because its a whole different scenario than sitting at home in your trailer and picking apart what he "should" have done. (this was directed @ 240)
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Escalation of force is based on a percieved threat to health - if he was under the guy and adrenaline was flowing, and he was scared this dude was not going to stop until his head was split open on the concrete, then that is a fair escalation of force. Its not like he could know how far it was going to go - its not like he's going to wait to see if the guy stops slamming his head onto the concrete.
Decisions under duress are given a lot of leeway because its a whole different scenario than sitting at home in your trailer and picking apart what he "should" have done.
what he should have done is let the police handle it and stop pretending he's Charles Bronson
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what he should have done is let the police handle it and stop pretending he's Charles Bronson
He was walking back to his car after the 911 operator and was attacked by obama's son - stop making up shit.
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no - what created the situation was trayvon physically attacking Zimm and smashing his head on the concrete, THEREBY CREATING REASONABLE FEAR FOR HIS LIFE.
Its amazing the lengths you leftist clowns go to avoid reality.
Maybe Zimmerman should have calculated in his mind that he could take 3 or so more good head bashings into the ground until "self defense" was warranted. ::)
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what he should have done is let the police handle it and stop pretending he's Charles Bronson
Zero evidence he was trying to be Charles Bronson. Nice try distorting the evidence though, jackass.
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George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting
By Chris Francescani
SANFORD, Florida | Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:09pm EDT
SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - A pit bull named Big Boi began menacing George and Shellie Zimmerman in the fall of 2009.
The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.
"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.
"Get a gun."
That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.
By June 2011, Zimmerman's attention had shifted from a loose pit bull to a wave of robberies that rattled the community, called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. The homeowners association asked him to launch a neighborhood watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol - a violation of neighborhood watch guidelines but not a crime.
Few of his closest neighbors knew he carried a gun - until two months ago.
On February 26, George Zimmerman shot and killed unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin in what Zimmerman says was self-defense. The furor that ensued has consumed the country and prompted a re-examination of guns, race and self-defense laws enacted in nearly half the United States.
During the time Zimmerman was in hiding, his detractors defined him as a vigilante who had decided Martin was suspicious merely because he was black. After Zimmerman was finally arrested on a charge of second-degree murder more than six weeks after the shooting, prosecutors portrayed him as a violent and angry man who disregarded authority by pursuing the 17-year-old.
But a more nuanced portrait of Zimmerman has emerged from a Reuters investigation into Zimmerman's past and a series of incidents in the community in the months preceding the Martin shooting.
Based on extensive interviews with relatives, friends, neighbors, schoolmates and co-workers of Zimmerman in two states, law enforcement officials, and reviews of court documents and police reports, the story sheds new light on the man at the center of one of the most controversial homicide cases in America.
The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.
A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.
Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.
"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
"MIXED" HOUSEHOLD
George Michael Zimmerman was born in 1983 to Robert and Gladys Zimmerman, the third of four children. Robert Zimmerman Sr. was a U.S. Army veteran who served in Vietnam in 1970, and was stationed at Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia, in 1975 with Gladys Mesa's brother George. Zimmerman Sr. also served two tours in Korea, and spent the final 10 years of his 22-year military career in the Pentagon, working for the Department of Defense, a family member said.
In his final years in Virginia before retiring to Florida, Robert Zimmerman served as a magistrate in Fairfax County's 19th Judicial District.
Robert and Gladys met in January 1975, when George Mesa brought along his army buddy to his sister's birthday party. She was visiting from Peru, on vacation from her job there as a physical education teacher. Robert was a Baptist, Gladys was Catholic. They soon married, in a Catholic ceremony in Alexandria, and moved to nearby Manassas.
Gladys came to lead a small but growing Catholic Hispanic enclave within the All Saints Catholic Church parish in the late 1970s, where she was involved in the church's outreach programs. Gladys would bring young George along with her on "home visits" to poor families, said a family friend, Teresa Post.
"It was part of their upbringing to know that there are people in need, people more in need than themselves," said Post, a Peruvian immigrant who lived with the Zimmermans for a time.
Post recalls evening prayers before dinner in the ethnically diverse Zimmerman household, which included siblings Robert Jr., Grace, and Dawn. "It wasn't only white or only Hispanic or only black - it was mixed," she said.
Zimmerman's maternal grandmother, Cristina, who had lived with the Zimmermans since 1978, worked as a babysitter for years during Zimmerman's childhood. For several years she cared for two African-American girls who ate their meals at the Zimmerman house and went back and forth to school each day with the Zimmerman children.
"They were part of the household for years, until they were old enough to be on their own," Post said.
Zimmerman served as an altar boy at All Saints from age 7 to 17, church members said.
"He wasn't the type where, you know, 'I'm being forced to do this,' and a dragging-his-feet Catholic," said Sandra Vega, who went to high school with George and his siblings. "He was an altar boy for years, and then worked in the rectory too. He has a really good heart."
George grew up bilingual, and by age 10 he was often called to the Haydon Elementary School principal's office to act as a translator between administrators and immigrant parents. At 14 he became obsessed with becoming a Marine, a relative said, joining the after-school ROTC program at Grace E. Metz Middle School and polishing his boots by night. At 15, he worked three part-time jobs - in a Mexican restaurant, for the rectory, and washing cars - on nights and weekends, to save up for a car.
After graduating from Osbourn High School in 2001, Zimmerman moved to Lake Mary, Florida, a town neighboring Sanford. His parents purchased a retirement home there in 2002, in part to bring Cristina, who suffers from arthritis, to a warmer climate.
YOUNG INSURANCE AGENT
On his own at 18, George got a job at an insurance agency and began to take classes at night to earn a license to sell insurance. He grew friendly with a real estate agent named Lee Ann Benjamin, who shared office space in the building, and later her husband, John Donnelly, a Sanford attorney.
"George impressed me right off the bat as just a real go-getter," Donnelly said. "He was working days and taking all these classes at night, passing all the insurance classes, not just for home insurance, but auto insurance and everything. He wanted to open his own office - and he did."
In 2004, Zimmerman partnered with an African-American friend and opened up an Allstate insurance satellite office, Donnelly said.
Then came 2005, and a series of troubles. Zimmerman's business failed, he was arrested, and he broke off an engagement with a woman who filed a restraining order against him.
That July, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer after shoving an undercover alcohol-control agent who was arresting an under-age friend of Zimmerman's at a bar. He avoided conviction by agreeing to participate in a pre-trial diversion program that included anger-management classes.
In August, Zimmerman's fiancee at the time, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman reciprocated with his own order on the same grounds, and both orders were granted. The relationship ended.
In 2007 he married Shellie Dean, a licensed cosmetologist, and in 2009 the couple rented a townhouse in the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman had bounced from job to job for a couple of years, working at a car dealership and a mortgage company. At times, according to testimony from Shellie at a bond hearing for Zimmerman last week, the couple filed for unemployment benefits.
Zimmerman enrolled in Seminole State College in 2009, and in December 2011 he was permitted to participate in a school graduation ceremony, despite being a course credit shy of his associate's degree in criminal justice. Zimmerman was completing that course credit when the shooting occurred.
On March 22, nearly a month after the shooting and with the controversy by then swirling nationwide, the school issued a press release saying it was taking the "unusual, but necessary" step of withdrawing Zimmerman's enrollment, citing "the safety of our students on campus as well as for Mr. Zimmerman."
A NEIGHBORHOOD IN FEAR
By the summer of 2011, Twin Lakes was experiencing a rash of burglaries and break-ins. Previously a family-friendly, first-time homeowner community, it was devastated by the recession that hit the Florida housing market, and transient renters began to occupy some of the 263 town houses in the complex. Vandalism and occasional drug activity were reported, and home values plunged. One resident who bought his home in 2006 for $250,000 said it was worth $80,000 today.
At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.
In several of the incidents, witnesses identified the suspects to police as young black men. Twin Lakes is about 50 percent white, with an African-American and Hispanic population of about 20 percent each, roughly similar to the surrounding city of Sanford, according to U.S. Census data.
One morning in July 2011, a black teenager walked up to Zimmerman's front porch and stole a bicycle, neighbors told Reuters. A police report was taken, though the bicycle was not recovered.
But it was the August incursion into the home of Olivia Bertalan that really troubled the neighborhood, particularly Zimmerman. Shellie was home most days, taking online courses towards certification as a registered nurse.
On August 3, Bertalan was at home with her infant son while her husband, Michael, was at work. She watched from a downstairs window, she said, as two black men repeatedly rang her doorbell and then entered through a sliding door at the back of the house. She ran upstairs, locked herself inside the boy's bedroom, and called a police dispatcher, whispering frantically.
"I said, 'What am I supposed to do? I hear them coming up the stairs!'" she told Reuters. Bertalan tried to coo her crying child into silence and armed herself with a pair of rusty scissors.
Police arrived just as the burglars - who had been trying to disconnect the couple's television - fled out a back door. Shellie Zimmerman saw a black male teen running through her backyard and reported it to police.
After police left Bertalan, George Zimmerman arrived at the front door in a shirt and tie, she said. He gave her his contact numbers on an index card and invited her to visit his wife if she ever felt unsafe. He returned later and gave her a stronger lock to bolster the sliding door that had been forced open.
"He was so mellow and calm, very helpful and very, very sweet," she said last week. "We didn't really know George at first, but after the break-in we talked to him on a daily basis. People were freaked out. It wasn't just George calling police ... we were calling police at least once a week."
In September, a group of neighbors including Zimmerman approached the homeowners association with their concerns, she said. Zimmerman was asked to head up a new neighborhood watch. He agreed.
"PLEASE CONTACT OUR CAPTAIN"
Police had advised Bertalan to get a dog. She and her husband decided to move out instead, and left two days before the shooting. Zimmerman took the advice.
"He'd already had a mutt that he walked around the neighborhood every night - man, he loved that dog - but after that home invasion he also got a Rottweiler," said Jorge Rodriguez, a friend and neighbor of the Zimmermans.
Around the same time, Zimmerman also gave Rodriguez and his wife, Audria, his contact information, so they could reach him day or night. Rodriguez showed the index card to Reuters. In neat cursive was a list of George and Shellie's home number and cell phones, as well as their emails.
Less than two weeks later, another Twin Lakes home was burglarized, police reports show. Two weeks after that, a home under construction was vandalized.
The Retreat at Twin Lakes e-newsletter for February 2012 noted: "The Sanford PD has announced an increased patrol within our neighborhood ... during peak crime hours.
"If you've been a victim of a crime in the community, after calling police, please contact our captain, George Zimmerman."
EMMANUEL BURGESS - SETTING THE STAGE
On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.
"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.
On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.
Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on February 2.
Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations.
Three days after Burgess was arrested, Zimmerman's grandmother was hospitalized for an infection, and the following week his father was also admitted for a heart condition. Zimmerman spent a number of those nights on a hospital room couch.
Ten days after his father was hospitalized, Zimmerman noticed another young man in the neighborhood, acting in a way he found familiar, so he made another call to police.
"We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy," Zimmerman said, as Trayvon Martin returned home from the store.
The last time Zimmerman had called police, to report Burgess, he followed protocol and waited for police to arrive. They were too late, and Burgess got away.
This time, Zimmerman was not so patient, and he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin.
"These assholes," he muttered in an aside, "they always get away."
After the phone call ended, several minutes passed when the movements of Zimmerman and Martin remain a mystery.
Moments later, Martin lay dead with a bullet in his chest.
(Editing by David Adams, Daniel Trotta and Prudence Crowther)
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how about negligent homicide
he created the situation where he then felt compelled to use deadly force
I still have a hard time understanding how deadly force was necessary when he had no injuries that required transport to the hospital.
Thats not even a criteria that should even be considered before you can use deadly force and I am glad it is not. If I was walking on the street and along comes a thug that blind-sides me coming from behind and pushes me to the ground causing me to fall without really injuring myself, the first thing I am going to to is reach for my gun and blast him.
Why would anyone with a sane mind give anyone the vital seconds that could end your life or the upper hand? In the above scenario I may not need hospital attention, but deadly force was surely justified yet I should be arrested according to you and others?
For what? Because I didn`t wait long enough for an adequate beating? ???
You are delusional if you disagree.
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He was walking back to his car after the 911 operator and was attacked by obama's son - stop making up shit.
why was he walking back to his car,because he was follow ing him .he could have just called the police and stayed in his car.noooo he had to Charles Bronson the situation
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why was he walking back to his car,because he was follow ing him .he could have just called the police and stayed in his car.noooo he had to Charles Bronson the situation
So? It was not illegal to follow him. There were many break ins recently by black criminals and he had every right to inquire as to the situation.
Again - pants around ass, gold teeth, hoodie MEET bullet up your ass.
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So? It was not illegal to follow him. There were many break ins recently by black criminals and he had every right to inquire as to the situation.
Again - pants around ass, gold teeth, hoodie MEET bullet up your ass.
or he could have let the police do it,he decided to Charles Bronson it and got beat like a little girl,so he had to use his equalizer
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or he could have let the police do it,he decided to Charles Bronson it and got beat like a little girl,so he had to use his equalizer
So you are just fine with someone laying a beating on an innocent victim?
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Megyn Kelly Guest Alan Dershowitz Slams Zimmerman Prosecutor: Her Affidavit ‘Is A Crime’
Mediaite ^ | April 25, 2012 | Alex Alvarez
Lawyer, professor and political commentator Alan Dershowitz stopped by America Live Wednesday afternoon, where he shared his thoughts on the George Zimmerman case with host Megyn Kelly. In a nutshell: He thinks the case has gone to hell in a widely-publicized handbasket. Specifically, he believes that, if anyone should be tried in this case, it should be Special Prosecutor Angela Corey.
“This affidavit,” he said, “submitted by the prosecutor in the Florida case is a crime. It’s a crime. If she in fact knew about ABC News’ pictures of the bloody head of Zimmerman and failed to include that in the affidavit, this affidavit is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”
He also took the prosecution to task for having used the passive voice — “a struggle ensued” — to describe the altercation that allegedly took place between Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin leading up to Trayvon’s death without adding pertinent evidence and details, such as whether Martin had been on top of Zimmerman, thus able to bash his head against the pavement as Zimmerman has claimed.
The prosecution’s goal, Dershowitz explained, is to present all the details and evidence of the case in order to pursue justice, not merely to seek justice solely for one side of the case. And “you don’t indite based on false information,” he told Kelly.
“Now, one of the problems,” he continued, “is because they’ve indited for second degree murder — and there’s nothing in this affidavit that suggests second degree murder, the elements of second degree murder aren’t here — the expectations have been reduced. There’s an article today in one of the… the Daily Beast saying “there’ll be riots in the street if there’s an acquittal.” If there are riots, it’s the prosecutor’s fault. Because she over-charged, raised expectations. No reasonable jury is going to convict based on the evidence I know of second degree murder. So this prosecutor not only may have suborned perjury, she may be responsible if there are going to be riots here for raising expectations to unreasonable levels.”
He reiterated that the case should focus on seeking justice, not necessarily on seeking “justice for Trayvon,” as the prosecutor has said. “Any reasonable judge,” he added, “would throw out second degree murder.”
So why might the prosecutor have “raised the stakes” to his level? Dershowitz has a theory:
She is a politically-elected person who was appointed to get Zimmerman. She was appointed to prevent riots. She wasn’t appointed to do justice; she was appointed to calm the situation down. That’s the problem when you elect prosecutors. We’re the only country in the western world that elects prosecutors. Prosecutors run for re-election based on how many people they put in jail. That doesn’t produce justice.
Have a look, via Fox News:
(VIDEO AT LINK)
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So you are just fine with someone laying a beating on an innocent victim?
i'm saying the whole thing could have been avoided if he would just let the police do their work,neighborhood watch not neighborhood follow
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i'm saying the whole thing could have been avoided if he would just let the police do their work,neighborhood watch not neighborhood follow
Could have been avoided if trayvon did not pick a fight and bash zimms head intot the ground.
THUG MEET BULLETTS
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Could have been avoided if trayvon did not pick a fight and bash zimms head intot the ground.
THUG MEET BULLETTS
we don't know who started the fight, we only have one persons story
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we don't know who started the fight, we only have one persons story
Yup.
One persons story, and a lot of evidence corroborating it, and next to none against (I dont think they have any evidence against).
What Zimmerman did probably wasnt the smartest thing, but the dude wasnt committing any crimes.
Trayvon could have prevented himself from getting killed by just ignoring him and walking away from it.
Any time you decide to engage a complete stranger, there is a possibility that your going to get killed. He made a bad choice and is no longer here because of it. He couldnt control Zimmerman following him, or being suspicious of him because of a string of break-ins by people of similar race and style, but he COULD control his emotions and his actions and just walk it off, or explain to Zimmerman he was just walking home from the store, or any number of options that didnt wind up with him being killed. He picked the 1 thing that could have got his ass killed, and he paid the price for it.
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Yup.
One persons story, and a lot of evidence corroborating it, and next to none against (I dont think they have any evidence against).
What Zimmerman did probably wasnt the smartest thing, but the dude wasnt committing any crimes.
Trayvon could have prevented himself from getting killed by just ignoring him and walking away from it.
Any time you decide to engage a complete stranger, there is a possibility that your going to get killed. He made a bad choice and is no longer here because of it. He couldnt control Zimmerman following him, or being suspicious of him because of a string of break-ins by people of similar race and style, but he COULD control his emotions and his actions and just walk it off, or explain to Zimmerman he was just walking home from the store, or any number of options that didnt wind up with him being killed. He picked the 1 thing that could have got his ass killed, and he paid the price for it.
how do you know that's how it happen seems like your assuming alot of shit here
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how do you know that's how it happen seems like your assuming alot of shit here
Im going off his story, and the fact that there have been several witness' that corroborate most of it and ZERO evidence against it. Thats really all anyone can do.
But, for the sake of argument, what am I assuming? How is saying that Travyon could have walked away, or talked to Zimmerman, or any number of things assuming anything? The ONLY way that couldnt work, is if Zimmerman physically assaulted Trayvon, for which there is absolutley zero evidence.
Thats my point - Trayvon's life was in his own hands, just as it is with any one of us. Were all responsible for our own choices. If I didnt like that someone was following me, and I turned and confronted him aggressively in any way (verbaly or physically), guess what - there is a very real possibility that making that choice will wind up with me getting killed or being in the hospital.
And I would have no one to blame but myself for choosing to react, rather than keep my cool and make a smart decision.
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so you don't know, maybe zimmerman started it, your going by his story,really what do you think he's going to say ::).as far as i know nobody seen how it started. that's why you let the police do their work.
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so you don't know, maybe zimmerman started it, your going by his story,really what do you think he's going to say ::).as far as i know nobody seen how it started. that's why you let the police do their work.
And the police did their work ad concluded that there was no way to tell, hence no probable cause and massive reasonable dfoubt to get a conviction.
Again - this is the problem with you emotional race obsessed cry babies - you can't see reality.
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so you don't know, maybe zimmerman started it, your going by his story,really what do you think he's going to say ::).as far as i know nobody seen how it started. that's why you let the police do their work.
So, wait, youre saying that when were discussing this matter, its ok to say he could have prevented this by not acting like Charles Bronson with ZERO evidence, but when I use the actual explanation backed by corroborating witness' and evidence, the same evidence the police used to decide not to arrest him, and the same evidence that the prosecutor admitted she couldnt prove wrong, Im the one operating with no clue as to what happened?
C'mon dude. Is it possible he's lying about that ONE part of his story? Of course its possible. Is it unlikely? Yes, moreso with each passing day, as more and more evidence piles up it appears more and more like he's telling the truth.
So when discussing this matter, you have 2 options - ignore the evidence because you think he's guilty but you cant prove it, or use the evidence to come up with a hypothesis based on the facts - and in this case, it points to him being aquitted.
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And the police did their work ad concluded that there was no way to tell, hence no probable cause and massive reasonable dfoubt to get a conviction.
Again - this is the problem with you emotional race obsessed cry babies - you can't see reality.
let the police confront trayvon,just do your neighberhood watch
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let the police confront trayvon,just do your neighberhood watch
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT ZIMM CONFRONTED TRAYVON!
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So, wait, youre saying that when were discussing this matter, its ok to say he could have prevented this by not acting like Charles Bronson with ZERO evidence, but when I use the actual explanation backed by corroborating witness' and evidence, the same evidence the police used to decide not to arrest him, and the same evidence that the prosecutor admitted she couldnt prove wrong, Im the one operating with no clue as to what happened?
C'mon dude. Is it possible he's lying about that ONE part of his story? Of course its possible. Is it unlikely? Yes, moreso with each passing day, as more and more evidence piles up it appears more and more like he's telling the truth.
So when discussing this matter, you have 2 options - ignore the evidence because you think he's guilty but you cant prove it, or use the evidence to come up with a hypothesis based on the facts - and in this case, it points to him being aquitted.
fill me in on all this evidence, i said clarles bronson because he's running around with a gun, call the police and let them do their work
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THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT ZIMM CONFRONTED TRAYVON!
or the other way around :o
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let the police confront trayvon,just do your neighberhood watch
You realize he wasnt actually on watch at the time - he was driving somehwere when he spotted him.
Originally people were bitching because he had a history of calling the cops - but turns out they were all justified because they were having a string of burglaries in the neighborhood, including one where the people were inside the houes while the burglars broke in - they called the cops, but they didnt arrive before the burglars had broken in and taken what they wanted while the house owners were locked in one of the rooms.
This neighborhood was plagued with burglaries by people fitting Trayvons description. It appears Zimmerman was just trying to keep tack of Trayvon until the police arrived.
There is zero evidence that he went all "Charles Bronson" and attacked or confronted the kid - he actually said (On the recorded conversation I believe) that he had given up and was on his way back.
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fill me in on all this evidence, i said clarles bronson because he's running around with a gun, call the police and let them do their work
Sigh.
He has a CWP. Thats not Charles Bronson. He got a CWP because a pitbull had been getting loose and attacking his family, and the Officers told him to get a gun to protect himself.
There is a LOT of evidence supporting most of his story, eyewitness' corroborating it, the wounds to his head, the fact that one eyewitness SAW Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating him. Im not going to post all of it again as its in this thread if you cared to look.
Hell, the prosecutor herself told the judge at the bail hearing she doesnt have any evidence to prove that his explanation is false.
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so how do you know he didn't jump on trayvon,the head wounds don't prove that he was jumped,just proves he was losing
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so how do you know he didn't jump on trayvon,the head wounds don't prove that he was jumped,just proves he was losing
We dont know - nobody knows. All any one of us can do is speculate on the evidence provided. The only way to come to any conclusion is to go on what you have (his story), and see if the evidence proves it or disproves it. The evidence almost completely supports his story with no evidence to the contrary - therefore we can only assume he's telling the truth unless some evidence comes out to prove him wrong.
But there isnt any evidence that disproves ANY of his story as of yet.
Until there is some, things went down the way he says they did. Thats how the courts are going to look at it. Thats the only way IMHO for any of us to speculate on it.
Youre insinuating that Trayvon may have jumped him, but you provide nothing, no evidence, no other possibilities - just "Duh of course he's going to say that". Its not a compelling argument. You say he went all "Charles Bronson" because he was carrying a gun, except you have no idea of the intent behind it. If you read the history on the neighborhood and the history behind his firearm, it paints a much different picture than "Charles Bronson".
If you have any evidence to support your speculation that he may have jumped Trayvon, Ill be happy to read it.
But so far If seen NOTHING that shows that his story may be false, other than people saying "Well of course he's going to say it went down like that, thats why I think he's guilty", which makes no sense. Is it possible he's lying? Of course. Is it likely? No. Especially not when eyewitness accounts mostly corroborate his story. Generally when people are lying about how something went down, it doesnt match up with eyewitness testimony. In this case, it does.
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The head wounds show that he was being injured during the altercation...perhaps injured to the extent that he feared for his life. He doesn't have to prove that he didn't start that altercation, the State...if what I read is correct...needs to prove that he did in order to nullify his claim of self defense. Simply saying that he was in the proximity of the altercation due to his own actions isn't enough.
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Shockwave, good job my friend with your posts.
This was an easy case from day one if anyone paid any kind of attention to the FACTS and nothing else. I still don`t understand how anyone can hang on to a sinking ship of bullshit. I am glad Jackson, Sharpton and the various news outlets have gotten their ass handed to them so far for making false claims, babooning about. I can`t wait for the acquittal.
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The head wounds show that he was being injured during the altercation...perhaps injured to the extent that he feared for his life. He doesn't have to prove that he didn't start that altercation, the State...if what I read is correct...needs to prove that he did in order to nullify his claim of self defense. Simply saying that he was in the proximity of the altercation due to his own actions isn't enough.
This. But many people wont agree to this or admit this, the outrage is already flowing thanks to the immediate spin by the media to illicit ratings. Generally, whatever is 1st put out by the news is what people believe, its very hard to change peoples opinions once theyre made up. Some come around faster than others. But most were given a very small amount of the facts, just enough to create outrage and nothing else.
They formed their opinion on this extremely narrow view on the issue and rather than admit they may have been wrong or allowed themselves to judge too quickly, theyll simply defend their original position until there is absolutley no way to further justify their opinion.
Its hard for someone to change their opinion - it means admitting they were wrong, to themselves and their friends. People simply dont want to do that, cause it can be painful. How many people do you really know, that when presented with contradictory facts during a discussion, will actually stop and say, I didnt know that, huh, I guess I was wrong? Took me a long time and a lot of growing up to be able to do that.
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no - what created the situation was trayvon physically attacking Zimm and smashing his head on the concrete, THEREBY CREATING REASONABLE FEAR FOR HIS LIFE.
Its amazing the lengths you leftist clowns go to avoid reality.
you don't know how the confrontation started and until the witness who claims to have seen Martin attacking Zimmerman actually testifies we don't know that either. As an attorney surely you know that witnesses change their stories all the time. If Zimmerman created the situation (again - we don't know) then negligent homicide may be viable. Also, we have no evidence that his life was in danger, especially given the lack of severity to his inuries.
It will be interesting if this thing ever goes to trial
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Arrest him for what? The cops felt there was no PROBABLE CAUSE for an arrest becaus they felt it was valid self defense claim given the evidence at hand.
I thought the lead investigator wanted to charge him?
Your statement should read "the police chief who tried to immediately retire after the decision, but isn't allowed to as his boss tries to determine what the F really happened here" wanted to not charge him.
Nothing like resigning so he can hide behind a lawyer ;) Watch when the phone records go public... my bet is that police chief got a call from zimm's daddy that night.
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you don't know how the confrontation started and until the witness who claims to have seen Martin attacking Zimmerman actually testifies we don't know that either. As an attorney surely you know that witnesses change their stories all the time. If Zimmerman created the situation (again - we don't know) then negligent homicide may be viable. Also, we have no evidence that his life was in danger, especially given the lack of severity to his inuries.
It will be interesting if this thing ever goes to trial
we have no evidence to dispute his claim that he felt his life was in danger, only evidence to back up his claim...
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Zero evidence he was trying to be Charles Bronson. Nice try distorting the evidence though, jackass.
he agreed on the phone to meet police at the mailbox and wait for them - then he hung up and broke that agreement.
he assigned trayvon as one of the fcking aholes breaking in.
he was packing a gun pursuing someone for 2 blocks in the dark.
TO me, that actually looks a lot like charles bronson playing vigilante. Sure, he probably just wanted to 'hold him at bay' and interrogate trayvon until police arrived.
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we have no evidence to dispute his claim that he felt his life was in danger, only evidence to back up his claim...
tony,
how many blocks does an armed adult have to follow a minor until that become a factor in the confrontation?
We know zimm followed him two.
What if zimm walked ONE MILE with zimm packing a gun and following him? Yes, that would certainly be a factor in the confrontation. Perhaps trayvon felt threatened when a grownup with a hand on his gun on his hip asked him "What are you doing here?"
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You realize he wasnt actually on watch at the time - he was driving somehwere when he spotted him.
Originally people were bitching because he had a history of calling the cops - but turns out they were all justified because they were having a string of burglaries in the neighborhood, including one where the people were inside the houes while the burglars broke in - they called the cops, but they didnt arrive before the burglars had broken in and taken what they wanted while the house owners were locked in one of the rooms.
This neighborhood was plagued with burglaries by people fitting Trayvons description. It appears Zimmerman was just trying to keep tack of Trayvon until the police arrived.
There is zero evidence that he went all "Charles Bronson" and attacked or confronted the kid - he actually said (On the recorded conversation I believe) that he had given up and was on his way back.
did you read the 47 pages of transcripts of the calls that Zimmerman made to 911
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did you read the 47 pages of transcripts of the calls that Zimmerman made to 911
link please?
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tony,
how many blocks does an armed adult have to follow a minor until that become a factor in the confrontation?
We know zimm followed him two.
What if zimm walked ONE MILE with zimm packing a gun and following him? Yes, that would certainly be a factor in the confrontation. Perhaps trayvon felt threatened when a grownup with a hand on his gun on his hip asked him "What are you doing here?"
and that has what to do with his trial?
that isnt breaking the law, already agreed he played a role in the incident. Likely both parties were at fault, that doesnt mean he is guilty of any crime.
what evidence do you have to suggest that he commited a crime?
what evidence do you have to suggest that his story isnt the real story?
he said trayvon beat his head against the concrete, he has injuries that coincide with that story.
He said trayvon was on top of him while doing it, there is eye witnesses that validate this as well.
So again, what evidence do you have?
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Likely both parties were at fault
You think it's likely Zimm was partly at fault here?
wait, a lot of getbiggers disagree with you. 33, what say you?
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link please?
don't have it
just read online that Sanford police released the transcripts and it was 47 pages
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don't have it
just read online that Sanford police released the transcripts and it was 47 pages
LOLZER. Read some of these. He chased after people more than just this time, it seems "unable to catch up with them" listed! hahaha
http://motherjones.com/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history
He called on garages being open, lic plates not showing, potholes in roads, people carrying drink in brown bag, "Zimm stopping people to do a KEY CHECK to see if they really lived there"
oh this is nuts. I'm surprised it took this long for him to shoot someone.
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you don't know how the confrontation started and until the witness who claims to have seen Martin attacking Zimmerman actually testifies we don't know that either. As an attorney surely you know that witnesses change their stories all the time. If Zimmerman created the situation (again - we don't know) then negligent homicide may be viable. Also, we have no evidence that his life was in danger, especially given the lack of severity to his inuries.
It will be interesting if this thing ever goes to trial
Thats not even a criteria that should even be considered before you can use deadly force and I am glad it is not. If I was walking on the street and along comes a thug that blind-sides me coming from behind and pushes me to the ground causing me to fall without really injuring myself, the first thing I am going to to is reach for my gun and blast him.
Why would anyone with a sane mind give anyone the vital seconds that could end your life or the upper hand? In the above scenario I may not need hospital attention, but deadly force was surely justified yet I should be arrested according to you and others?
For what? Because I didn`t wait long enough for an adequate beating? ???
You are delusional if you disagree.
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LOLZER. Read some of these. He chased after people more than just this time, it seems "unable to catch up with them" listed! hahaha
http://motherjones.com/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history
He called on garages being open, lic plates not showing, potholes in roads, people carrying drink in brown bag, "Zimm stopping people to do a KEY CHECK to see if they really lived there"
oh this is nuts. I'm surprised it took this long for him to shoot someone.
Not really though. Jezebelle and I have called the cops alot over things like that. Two weeks ago we called the police because a Street Light was out.
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You think it's likely Zimm was partly at fault here?
wait, a lot of getbiggers disagree with you. 33, what say you?
I think if I was trayvon at his age and a strange dude was following me I may have acted irrationally.
so did zimmerman play a part in this incident I think so, does it mean he is guilty of some crime...NO
so again what evidence do you have to disprove any of zimmermans story?
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Thats not even a criteria that should even be considered before you can use deadly force and I am glad it is not. If I was walking on the street and along comes a thug that blind-sides me coming from behind and pushes me to the ground causing me to fall without really injuring myself, the first thing I am going to to is reach for my gun and blast him.
Why would anyone with a sane mind give anyone the vital seconds that could end your life or the upper hand? In the above scenario I may not need hospital attention, but deadly force was surely justified yet I should be arrested according to you and others?
For what? Because I didn`t wait long enough for an adequate beating? ???
You are delusional if you disagree.
yes you have to wait until his wrestles the gun away and then wrestle it back to be justified...
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yes you have to wait until his wrestles the gun away and then wrestle it back to be justified...
ROFLMAO yes!
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we have no evidence to dispute his claim that he felt his life was in danger, only evidence to back up his claim...
I'm sure he felt like his life was in danger but given that he had no serious injury at all the claim could be made that his life wasn't in danger and therefore he was not justified in shooting Martin
I'm sure I could walk down the street in a shitty neighborhood at night and feel like my life was in danger too but that wouldn't be enough to justify me using deadly force
Martin had no weapon and Zimmerman had no serious injuries so there is at least circumstantial evidence that his life was not in danger
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http://motherjones.com/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history
"People who don't live here playing basketball and making mess in bathroom they shouldn't be using"
"landlord trying to collect rent, but the place is in foreclosure"
"party at pool" "more garage doors open"
"Trash in the road which may contain glass"
Lots of "BM" or black male suspects in the calls. Even a "He's headed for the elementary school"
He called 911 on "a vehicle I do'nt recognize"
"kids aged 4 to 11 playing in street"
AND a whole bunch of reports of black males running to back of apt complex - exactly what he reports trayvon was doing. But instead of waiting at the mailbox, zimm gave pursuit.
these transcripts are amazing. Really. He had a history of calling about black males for suspicious behavior. He called trayvon one of these assholes doing the break ins. He chased, and he shot. Looks bad.
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Thats not even a criteria that should even be considered before you can use deadly force and I am glad it is not. If I was walking on the street and along comes a thug that blind-sides me coming from behind and pushes me to the ground causing me to fall without really injuring myself, the first thing I am going to to is reach for my gun and blast him. Why would anyone with a sane mind give anyone the vital seconds that could end your life or the upper hand? In the above scenario I may not need hospital attention, but deadly force was surely justified yet I should be arrested according to you and others?
For what? Because I didn`t wait long enough for an adequate beating? ???
You are delusional if you disagree.
you're delusional if you think you can used deadly force because someone pushed you and fall down
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I'm sure he felt like his life was in danger but given that he had no serious injury at all the claim could be made that his life wasn't in danger and therefore he was not justified in shooting Martin
I'm sure I could walk down the street in a shitty neighborhood at night and feel like my life was in danger too but that wouldn't be enough to justify me using deadly force
Martin had no weapon and Zimmerman had no serious injuries so their is at least circumstantial evidence that his life was not in danger
Absolutely that arguement can be made, it isnt very effective and I dont think the prosecution would take that approach but it could be made.
First of all, what do you consider serious injury?
why does he have to wait until there is "serious" injury to fear for their life?
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so again what evidence do you have to disprove any of zimmermans story?
It's two guys, one dead, one alive. It's a coin flip.
You throw in the fact we KNOW zimm moved from the mailbox 2 blocks to the site of the confrontation - trayvon moved two blocks AWAY from zimm. While zimm moved two blocks CLOSR to the confrontation.
Trayvon's GF said the convo was "Why are you following me" and zimm saying "what are you doing here" that doesn't help zimm's case.
And zimm entered the confrontation with a gun, trayvon didn't.
And zimm was an adult, with a violent record x2, including felony on LEO and domestic abuse + alcohol counseling state ordered.
I dunno, it's looking like that coin flip could go against zimmerman.
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http://motherjones.com/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history
"People who don't live here playing basketball and making mess in bathroom they shouldn't be using"
"landlord trying to collect rent, but the place is in foreclosure"
"party at pool" "more garage doors open"
"Trash in the road which may contain glass"
Lots of "BM" or black male suspects in the calls. Even a "He's headed for the elementary school"
He called 911 on "a vehicle I do'nt recognize"
"kids aged 4 to 11 playing in street"
AND a whole bunch of reports of black males running to back of apt complex - exactly what he reports trayvon was doing. But instead of waiting at the mailbox, zimm gave pursuit.
these transcripts are amazing. Really. He had a history of calling about black males for suspicious behavior. He called trayvon one of these assholes doing the break ins. He chased, and he shot. Looks bad.
well that proves it, I dont know why they settled for 2nd degree murder. Its obvious this is a clear cut case of premeditated capital murder.
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well that proves it, I dont know why they settled for 2nd degree murder. Its obvious this is a clear cut case of premeditated capital murder.
I know it isn't easy to think zimm might go to prison for what was a legal shoot.
but he did walk two blocks armed, into a situation where he thought he was dealing with a home burglar on drugs. Right, tony? Can you agree he did that much? Y or N?
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It's two guys, one dead, one alive. It's a coin flip.
You throw in the fact we KNOW zimm moved from the mailbox 2 blocks to the site of the confrontation - trayvon moved two blocks AWAY from zimm. While zimm moved two blocks CLOSR to the confrontation.
Trayvon's GF said the convo was "Why are you following me" and zimm saying "what are you doing here" that doesn't help zimm's case.
And zimm entered the confrontation with a gun, trayvon didn't.
And zimm was an adult, with a violent record x2, including felony on LEO and domestic abuse + alcohol counseling state ordered.
I dunno, it's looking like that coin flip could go against zimmerman.
LMFAO a coin flip?
so zimmerman followed trayvon a person who fit the description of perpetrators of multile home burglaries in the area.
Again what crime did he commit?
He asked him what he was doing there
what crime did he commit?
you have absolutely no evidence that he was drunk, on drugs or any other assinine assertion you want to make.
AGAIN WHAY CRIME DID HE COMMIT?
what evidence do you have to back up your claims?
zimmermans case stance has evidence to back it up, yours?
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well that proves it, I dont know why they settled for 2nd degree murder. Its obvious this is a clear cut case of premeditated capital murder.
I think that was just a tactic to whittle him down to some lessor charge
they are going to have a very hard time (I think impossible) proving 2nd degree murder
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I know it isn't easy to think zimm might go to prison for what was a legal shoot.
but he did walk two blocks armed, into a situation where he thought he was dealing with a home burglar on drugs. Right, tony? Can you agree he did that much? Y or N?
I dont know how many blocks he walked but he did follow someone who he thought MIGHT have been a burglary suspect.
he may have asked him a question as well...
what crime did he break?
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I think that was just a tactic to whittle him down to some lessor charge
they are going to have a very hard time (I think impossible) proving 2nd degree murder
agreed, at this point im thinking its going to be pretty hard for them to get manslaughter.
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LMFAO a coin flip?
so zimmerman followed trayvon a person who fit the description of perpetrators of multile home burglaries in the area.
Again what crime did he commit?
He asked him what he was doing there
what crime did he commit?
you have absolutely no evidence that he was drunk, on drugs or any other assinine assertion you want to make.
AGAIN WHAY CRIME DID HE COMMIT?
what evidence do you have to back up your claims?
zimmermans case stance has evidence to back it up, yours?
In any situation where it's just one man's word against another - and that's teh case here - it's a coin flip.
If trayvon had followed zimmerman two blocks down zimm's street carrying a gun and then "something" happened and we only had trayvon standing there with a gun in his hand and a story to tell, getbiggers would be crying "Lock him up! Zimm was just walking home frrom the store unarmed!"
The more I look at those calls, ,the more I look at how he pursued him - he's pretty fccked here. it's just his word. Witnesses saw him losing the fight. Nobody saw the fight start, and TM's GF makes zimm as the aggressor. Coin flip looking good for trayvon.
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what crime did he break?
i dont know what that means.
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Absolutely that arguement can be made, it isnt very effective and I dont think the prosecution would take that approach but it could be made.
First of all, what do you consider serious injury?
why does he have to wait until there is "serious" injury to fear for their life?
anything that would at least require a trip to the hospital, even if just for observation
One good wack on your skull on the cement should cause that and I thought he claimed his head was smashed into the cement many times
if he really had a broken nose you'd think they would take him to the hospital for that too
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In any situation where it's just one man's word against another - and that's teh case here - it's a coin flip.
If trayvon had followed zimmerman two blocks down zimm's street carrying a gun and then "something" happened and we only had trayvon standing there with a gun in his hand and a story to tell, getbiggers would be crying "Lock him up! Zimm was just walking home frrom the store unarmed!"
The more I look at those calls, ,the more I look at how he pursued him - he's pretty fccked here. it's just his word. Witnesses saw him losing the fight. Nobody saw the fight start, and TM's GF makes zimm as the aggressor. Coin flip looking good for trayvon.
good lord your a moron, cant keep any story straight...Im starting to think your cooking meth in your trailer and its starting to get to you.
switching the situation doesnt change the facts, the facts are the evidence aligns itself with zimmermans story.
You have no evidence to suggest your story is true or even that zimmermans is a lie, yet your moronic ass still thinks its a coin flip.
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switching the situation doesnt change the facts, the facts are the evidence aligns itself with zimmermans story.
maybe youre right. list the facts that support zimm's story that trayvon started the fight, please.
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agreed, at this point im thinking its going to be pretty hard for them to get manslaughter.
I'm thinking it will be negligent homicide.... if anything
there is certainly a good chance he will walk and frankly, as long as there is a thorough investigation that's fine with me
as you know there are plenty of murderers who are walking the streets and innocent men in jail
life is not fair
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anything that would at least require a trip to the hospital, even if just for observation
One good wack on your skull on the cement should cause that and I thought he claimed his head was smashed into the cement many times
if he really had a broken nose you'd think they would take him to the hospital for that too
At the moment bro you dont know if youre going to have to go to the hospital. Not to be offensive bro but you dont sound like youve ever been in a physical altercation in your life.
when he was having his head "smashed" into the concrete he was probably trying to defend himself meaning that he likely lessened the amount of damage.
You see those UFC fights where one guy pounds the shit out of the other while strattling them? how many of those hits really land square? not many, that doesnt mean the guy on top wasnt beating the shit out of the other guy. Similar type of thing here could have happened.
I agree about the broken nose but then again ive had dislocated fingers and never went to a hospital/doctor, busted lips that required stitches(still have a bump in my lip b/c of it) and didnt got to the hospital, a broken arm and waited until the next day to go to the hospital.
again in the heat of the moment bro, you dont know what a life threatening injury is. All you know is this guy wants to hurt me and I have to defend myself.
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maybe youre right. list the facts that support zimm's story that trayvon started the fight, please.
there are none,
I can list many that support other aspects of his story.
list the facts that disprove any part of his story, or any part of your assertion of what happend.
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I dont think anyone is arguing that Zimmerman had NO hand in what happened. He chose to be proactive in defending his community in light of the lack of the cops doing their jobs. If he hadnt, this never would have happened. However misguided his choice to follow TM was, he committed no crimes that they have evidence for.
The point here, is whether or not a crime was committed. And under the law, and with the evidence provided, he didnt break any laws. There is nothing there to prove that his story is any different that what he claims - and in order to be charged, it has to be proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he committed 2nd degree MURDER.
Making the charge that he is guilty because he followed him (and therefore provoked the situation) is making a huge stretch of logic with no supporting evidence that will never hold up in court, as its not a crime to follow someone.
Its not a crime to ignore a non-order from a police dispatcher.
Its not a crime to call in on someone you are worried may be one of the suspects that have been burglarizing your neighborhood.
It IS a crime to assault someone. And unless they miraculously come up with some evidence that its not as Zimmerman claims it to be, guess what, he walks.
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At the moment bro you dont know if youre going to have to go to the hospital. Not to be offensive bro but you dont sound like youve ever been in a physical altercation in your life.
when he was having his head "smashed" into the concrete he was probably trying to defend himself meaning that he likely lessened the amount of damage.
You see those UFC fights where one guy pounds the shit out of the other while strattling them? how many of those hits really land square? not many, that doesnt mean the guy on top wasnt beating the shit out of the other guy. Similar type of thing here could have happened.
I agree about the broken nose but then again ive had dislocated fingers and never went to a hospital/doctor, busted lips that required stitches(still have a bump in my lip b/c of it) and didnt got to the hospital, a broken arm and waited until the next day to go to the hospital.
again in the heat of the moment bro, you dont know what a life threatening injury is. All you know is this guy wants to hurt me and I have to defend myself.
Zimmerman was looked over by paramedics....correct?
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Zimmerman was looked over by paramedics....correct?
Correct.
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WHO TOOK THESE PICTURES?
AND WHEN?
A friend of Zimmerman’s told the Daily News that Zimmerman has graphic photos he took of his own face showing serious injuries.
“He was beaten to a bloody pulp that night, and he’s lucky to be alive. There’s proof of that,” the friend of Zimmerman said.
~~~~~
“You (the media) are going to feel pretty stupid when you see them,” he said. “Soon enough everyone will see the damage this kid did to his head. A lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.
“Once the judge gets a look at these pictures he will dismiss this case and all you can crawl back into your holes,” he told a News reporter.
--bring it, 'anonymous' friend---let's see the 'graphic' bloody pulp pics.
There's a REAL serious timing issue with this guy's statement... check it out:
“He took the pictures himself...to protect himself. He knew they would come back for him. He had a good idea this wasn’t over. He’s not a dumb man.”
This statement implies that photos were taken AFTER he was RELEASED but PRIOR to him being charged and arrested (prior to them "coming back for him")
So let's run through the sequence of events of alleged photos depicting alleged bloody gory pulp....
1) GZ is apprehended and taken to police station
2) GZ is depicted at the PoPo getting out of the cruiser with Zero blood, guts, gore, pulp
3) GZ is interrogated for several hours
4) While GZ is interrogated he is not sure at that time whether he will be released or not
5) GZ is then released, goes home and goes to bed and skips going to the doctor prior to bed
For the statement to be made: "...he knew they would come back for him.." means this would have HAD to occur AFTER he was released. Because logic tells us that prior to his release he didn't know whether he'd even be going home that night, so he couldn't even have gotten as far as wondering whether they'd come back for him
And in fact if he took pictures AFTER he was released -- then where did all that alleged blood come from -- because there sure wasn't ANY blood showing in the photos taken at the police station when he was apprehended. And as far as we know and until proven otherwise, the photos taken at the police station by the surveillance camera prior to the interrogation - were the first ones to be taken time-wise. If indeed they were the first taken - then they establish very little evidence of blood, gore, pulp
Um, does anyone know if these pics were taken AFTER the pics of him with the clean head in the police station? If so, that's bad lol.
Anyone with link to PROOF of when these pics were taken? Cause he could have gone home and busted his own head open for public opinion purposes cause the lawyes/dad said to.
Proof of when pics were taken, please.
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Correct.
any evidence of any moderately serious injury would have resulted in a trip to the hospital
a broken nose certainly would have been more than enough
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WHO TOOK THESE PICTURES?
AND WHEN?
A friend of Zimmerman’s told the Daily News that Zimmerman has graphic photos he took of his own face showing serious injuries.
“He was beaten to a bloody pulp that night, and he’s lucky to be alive. There’s proof of that,” the friend of Zimmerman said.
~~~~~
“You (the media) are going to feel pretty stupid when you see them,” he said. “Soon enough everyone will see the damage this kid did to his head. A lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.
“Once the judge gets a look at these pictures he will dismiss this case and all you can crawl back into your holes,” he told a News reporter.
--bring it, 'anonymous' friend---let's see the 'graphic' bloody pulp pics.
There's a REAL serious timing issue with this guy's statement... check it out:
“He took the pictures himself...to protect himself. He knew they would come back for him. He had a good idea this wasn’t over. He’s not a dumb man.”
This statement implies that photos were taken AFTER he was RELEASED but PRIOR to him being charged and arrested (prior to them "coming back for him")
So let's run through the sequence of events of alleged photos depicting alleged bloody gory pulp....
1) GZ is apprehended and taken to police station
2) GZ is depicted at the PoPo getting out of the cruiser with Zero blood, guts, gore, pulp
3) GZ is interrogated for several hours
4) While GZ is interrogated he is not sure at that time whether he will be released or not
5) GZ is then released, goes home and goes to bed and skips going to the doctor prior to bed
For the statement to be made: "...he knew they would come back for him.." means this would have HAD to occur AFTER he was released. Because logic tells us that prior to his release he didn't know whether he'd even be going home that night, so he couldn't even have gotten as far as wondering whether they'd come back for him
And in fact if he took pictures AFTER he was released -- then where did all that alleged blood come from -- because there sure wasn't ANY blood showing in the photos taken at the police station when he was apprehended. And as far as we know and until proven otherwise, the photos taken at the police station by the surveillance camera prior to the interrogation - were the first ones to be taken time-wise. If indeed they were the first taken - then they establish very little evidence of blood, gore, pulp
Jesus Christ here it comes...... ::)
Go post this bullshit in its own thread so the mods can do their job and move it to the CT board to die like it should.
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Zimmerman was looked over by paramedics....correct?
what was their diagnosis?
did they suggest that he visit a hospital?
would it change your mind if they did?
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any evidence of any moderately serious injury would have resulted in a trip to the hospital
a broken nose certainly would have been more than enough
you dont have to go to the hospital for a broken nose.
Any idea of what the paramedics assesment of zimmermans condition was?
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any evidence of any moderately serious injury would have resulted in a trip to the hospital
a broken nose certainly would have been more than enough
Yes, unless he opts out. He can refuse to go. And if the cuts and bruises were treatable he may not have gone. A broken nose, most would probably go, but its not a requirement.
I personally have gotten in a wreck on the freeway, I was dead stopped and a moron hit me doing well over 70 from behind, destroyed my truck and shoved me a quarter mile down the road, my head was fucked up, bruised, cuts, bleeding from the broken glass, and I refused to go to the hospital because I didnt feel I needed to. I chose to go to my regular doctor later on during the week, sucked it up and moved on.
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Since no one knows what happened I'm going to offer one of many possible scenarios
1. Zimmerman confront Martin and asks him what he is doing there and does so in a confrontational and aggressive manner, his confidence bolstered by the fact that he is armed
2. Martin refuses to answer and tries to leave and Zimmerman puts his hands on him to try to prevent him from leaving
3. Martin defends himself and maybe even punches Zimmerman and knocks him to the ground or they start to wrestle and fall the the ground and Zimmerman hits his head once and panics and starts screaming and then decides his life is now in danger and shoots Martin
Just like Zimmermans story....can anything above be disproven?
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Since no one knows what happened I'm going to offer one of many possible scenarios
1. Zimmerman confront Martin and asks him what he is doing there and does so in a confrontational and aggressive manner, his confidence bolstered by the fact that he is armed
2. Martin refuses to answer and tries to leave and Zimmerman puts his hands on him to try to prevent him from leaving
3. Martin defends himself and maybe even punches Zimmerman and knocks him to the ground or they start to wrestle and fall the the ground and Zimmerman hits his head once and panics and starts screaming and then decides his life is now in danger and shoots Martin
Just like Zimmermans story....can anything above be disproven?
not just like zimmermans story, b/c parts of zimmermans story have evidence to support it...
I am going to go where the evidence points...not where i feel I want the story to go.
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Article says 3 mintues -
WFTV just learned Friday morning about a picture of gunman George Zimmerman, taken just three minutes after the shooting that left 17-year-old Trayvon Martin dead.
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what was their diagnosis?
did they suggest that he visit a hospital?
would it change your mind if they did?
I haven't made up my mind about anything because I don't have enough infomation (and may well never have enough) but I like to hear what they say
I'd really like to hear Zimmermans friend who he supposedly told what happened (not sure if it was that night or not) on the witness stand and see how much of his story matches what Zimmerman says
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Since no one knows what happened I'm going to offer one of many possible scenarios
1. Zimmerman confront Martin and asks him what he is doing there and does so in a confrontational and aggressive manner, his confidence bolstered by the fact that he is armed
2. Martin refuses to answer and tries to leave and Zimmerman puts his hands on him to try to prevent him from leaving
3. Martin defends himself and maybe even punches Zimmerman and knocks him to the ground or they start to wrestle and fall the the ground and Zimmerman hits his head once and panics and starts screaming and then decides his life is now in danger and shoots Martin
Just like Zimmermans story....can anything above be disproven?
Of course not, except there isnt other parts of the story that can be corroborated by others.
Pretty sure whats going to happen, is if he story is pretty much proven true, theyre going to say that everything else checks out and there is nothing to show it didnt go down the way he said, so there is no reason to assume he was lieing about that 1 part. Usually when people lie about the situation, the rest of their story doesnt jive well with the evidence/witness. If most of the story checks out and they have no evidence to the contrary, they will side with him.
If big chunks of his story could be disproven or didnt match up with the witness', then a case could be made that he is lying.
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Article says 3 mintues -
WFTV just learned Friday morning about a picture of gunman George Zimmerman, taken just three minutes after the shooting that left 17-year-old Trayvon Martin dead.
Its been posted here numbnuts, 333 created a thread about that pic. The one with all the blood leaking down his head, with the bruises forming on the side, that you claimed was thinned blood from drinking cause he was coming home from target.
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not just like zimmermans story, b/c parts of zimmermans story have evidence to support it...
I am going to go where the evidence points...not where i feel I want the story to go.
we've been over this before and no part of his story (IMO) has "evidence" to support his claim
the cut on his head is evidence of a cut on his head and nothing more
even the unidentified witness is not evidence of who started the fight or how Zimmerman winded up on bottom
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who leaked that image to the press?
and i'm still waiting for a link to a witness saying trayvon started it.
i thought all we knew from witnesses is that zimm was getting ass whipped, nobody saw it start, only TM's GF heard it.
getbig has a mystery witness the police don't know about?
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we've been over this before and no part of his story (IMO) has "evidence" to support his claim
the cut on his head is evidence of a cut on his head and nothing more
even the unidentified witness is not evidence of who started the fight or how Zimmerman winded up on bottom
if you dont think the cut on the head and eye witness are evidence that corroborates zimmermans story then you have a screw loose.
Is that the way it happend, who knows?
what we do know is the evidence available lines up with zimmermans story. If it didnt you sure as shit would be on here saying that it not lining up with his story is evidence he is lying...
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who leaked that image to the press?
and i'm still waiting for a link to a witness saying trayvon started it.
i thought all we knew from witnesses is that zimm was getting ass whipped, nobody saw it start, only TM's GF heard it.
getbig has a mystery witness the police don't know about?
who said trayvon started the fight?
still waiting on evidence to support any of your claims...
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we've been over this before and no part of his story (IMO) has "evidence" to support his claim
the cut on his head is evidence of a cut on his head and nothing more
even the unidentified witness is not evidence of who started the fight or how Zimmerman winded up on bottom
Sigh.. yes, but whats your failing to grasp is that it fits with other parts of his story. When they have no evidence, the only way to make a case is to find other holes in his story of mismatches, which they cant find. Since the rest of the story matches up, they cant very well say there is evidence of him lying about his story.
Theyre gonna say, everything matches up with what the evidence shows, what reason would we have to believe he is lying about this when everything else has matched up? And with no evidence to the contrary, they would be right. They have to DISPROVE his claim. They cant. And he didnt lie about any of the other parts of his story. So they cant point to him lieing about other parts as possible evidence that his claim of being attacked is a lie.
They literally have no evidence to the contrary of ANY part of his story, let alone the part about being attacked.
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if you dont think the cut on the head and eye witness are evidence that corroborates zimmermans story then you have a screw loose.
Is that the way it happend, who knows?
what we do know is the evidence available lines up with zimmermans story. If it didnt you sure as shit would be on here saying that it not lining up with his story is evidence he is lying...
you just made my point
we don't know how it happened so it's not "proof" of his claim that Martin attacked him
If you're allowed to start a fight in Florida and then end it by killing the person you started a fight with then it doesn't matter
If who started the fight matters (and I think it does) then the cut is only proof of the cut and nothing more
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you just made my point
we don't know how it happened so it's not "proof" of his claim that Martin attacked him
If you're allowed to start a fight in Florida and then end it by killing the person you started a fight with then it doesn't matter
If who started the fight matters (and I think it does) then the cut is only proof of the cut and nothing more
LOL so we have evidence to corroborate zimmermans story maybe not every aspect of it but aspects of it.
what evidence at all do you have to support yours?
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LOL so we have evidence to corroborate zimmermans story maybe not every aspect of it but aspects of it.
what evidence at all do you have to support yours?
no one disputes that Martin and Zimmerman had a confrontation and that Zimmerman shot Martin
there is one eyewitness that says he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman
that's the end of the evidence
we don't know who started it
we don't know who escalated it (again Martin could have been defending himself or even trying to get away)
we have no evidence that deadly force was justified
as I've said before, if it's legal to start a fight or a confrontation and then shoot the person you started the fight with than Zimmerman is golden and he'll be fine whether his story is true or not
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no one disputes that Martin and Zimmerman had a confrontation and that Zimmerman shot Martin
there is one eyewitness that says he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman
that's the end of the evidence
we don't know who started it
we don't know who escalated it (again Martin could have been defending himself or even trying to get away)
we have no evidence that deadly force was justified
as I've said before, if it's legal to start a fight or a confrontation and then shoot the person you started the fight with than Zimmerman is golden and he'll be fine whether his story is true or not
Its a matter of having evidence to support one side and none against. Thats the problem for the prosecution. You cannot convict someone with "Martin COULD have been defending himself" without proof of such.
Remember, its supposed to be innocent until PROVEN guiltly with no reasonable doubt.
Now if youre just arguing who was right or wrong, than thats a different story. But judging by your statement about him being ok if its legal to start a fight, than the above applys.
He's golden the way he sits now. Unless the prosecution can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he escalated it into a physical fight, thats it. Game over.
And even if we throw out all the rest of his story and all the other evidence like youre talking about, he's still golden.
As you said, we dont know what happened. And if the prosecutor cant prove that he initiated the fight or that he escalated force, he walks.
He has many things going for him and none (thats admissable or matters in a courtroom) against.
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no one disputes that Martin and Zimmerman had a confrontation and that Zimmerman shot Martin
there is one eyewitness that says he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman
that's the end of the evidence
we don't know who started it
we don't know who escalated it (again Martin could have been defending himself or even trying to get away)
we have no evidence that deadly force was justified
as I've said before, if it's legal to start a fight or a confrontation and then shoot the person you started the fight with than Zimmerman is golden and he'll be fine whether his story is true or not
we dont know what happend but we have evidence that backs up the story of what happend from zimmerman.
what evidence do you have to contradict it? what evidence do you have to prove he is guilty of some commiting some crime?
like shock said, its innocent until proven guilty.
you have no evidence to say things went the way you think they may have.
Zimmerman does have evidence to show things went the way he said, even if it only proves part of his story...
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i'm positive there's evidence the prosecution has that none of us lawyers have seen yet ;D so i guess we'll have to wait an see
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we dont know what happend but we have evidence that backs up the story of what happend from zimmerman.
what evidence do you have to contradict it? what evidence do you have to prove he is guilty of some commiting some crime?
like shock said, its innocent until proven guilty.
you have no evidence to say things went the way you think they may have.
Zimmerman does have evidence to show things went the way he said, even if it only proves part of his story...
Zimmermans story is predicated on his claim that Martin attacked him
since you said their is evidence that "back up" his story please remind me what that evidence is again
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i'm positive there's evidence the prosecution has that none of us lawyers have seen yet ;D so i guess we'll have to wait an see
If thats the case, why did she admit to a judge that she didnt have enough evidence to prove his story wrong at the bail hearing?
Hell, there is another attorney suggesting that SHE (the prosecutor) be brought up on charges for filling charges without enough evidence to back it up, and for not including pertinent defense details like the picture and info of the head wounds..
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i'm positive there's evidence the prosecution has that none of us lawyers have seen yet ;D so i guess we'll have to wait an see
Lol. Keep dreaming. I hope zimm runs for public office after this along w sheriff Joe. Clean up the streets.
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Lol. Keep dreaming. I hope zimm runs for public office after this along w sheriff Joe. Clean up the streets.
thats right lets ask our getbig lawyer,nevermind it's not a parking ticket in pretend land :D :D :D
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thats right lets ask our getbig lawyer,nevermind it's not a parking ticket in pretend land :D :D :D
I would trust you over Obama to handle a speeding ticket in court.
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Zimmermans story is predicated on his claim that Martin attacked him
since you said their is evidence that "back up" his story please remind me what that evidence is again
I know youre talking to Tony, but the burden of proof of who started the fight isnt on Zimmerman, its on the prosecution to prove he's lieing. (Because he's innocent until proven guilty and there is no evidence that the rest of his story has been falsified)
Zimmerman is sitting pretty - the information they gathered matched up with what he said. Without any evidence of him lying about the rest of his story, and with no evidence to the contrary about how the fight started, he's good to go.
You keep saying this shit about his story not having evidence to back up how the fight started- it doesnt matter because they cant prove him wrong. Unless they can prove he had the intent to go kill Trayvon, and that he wasnt acting in self defense in some way, he gets aquitted. He may even get off if they determine he started the fight, as long as he can convince them he was fearing for his life.
Hes cant be found guilty just because he cant provide absolute proof that Trayvon started the fight.
He (should) walk because the prosecution cant prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he's lieing. (the prosecutor already admitted this to the judge during the bail hearing)
See what were getting at? He has enough evidence showing that 90% of his story is truth (Yes I know not who started the fight, the rest of his story, including that he was being assaulted by Trayvon).
Without evidence to the contrary, that becomes important. And without evidence that Zimmerman started the fight, and since the defense does have evidence that he was truthful with the rest of the story, it should be an easy night for the defense.
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Zimmermans story is predicated on his claim that Martin attacked him
since you said their is evidence that "back up" his story please remind me what that evidence is again
is the evidence of his busted head and the eye witness not back up his story that trayvon was on top beating him?
he doesnt have to prove every aspect, as a matter of fact he doesnt have to prove anything. The side that thinks he is guilty i.e. you has the onus of proving he is guilty.
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is the evidence of his busted head and the eye witness not back up his story that trayvon was on top beating him?
he doesnt have to prove every aspect, as a matter of fact he doesnt have to prove anything. The side that thinks he is guilty i.e. you has the onus of proving he is guilty.
This is what ive been trying to get at, the people that think he's guilty are all looking at this case ass-backwards.
They keep trying to make the case that he has to prove he's telling the truth about who started the fight - he doesnt.
The burden of proof is not on zimmerman to prove he's telling the truth, its on the prosecution to prove he's lieing.
This "well he cant prove that Trayvon started the fight" is worthless in a courtroom, because Zimmerman is going to be assumed to be telling the truth unless the prosecution can prove otherwise. (Innocent until proven guilty. And the Prosecutor already admitted she cant prove he's lieing.)
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I know youre talking to Tony, but the burden of proof of who started the fight isnt on Zimmerman, its on the prosecution to prove he's lieing. (Because he's innocent until proven guilty and there is no evidence that the rest of his story has been falsified)
Zimmerman is sitting pretty - the information they gathered matched up with what he said. Without any evidence of him lying about the rest of his story, and with no evidence to the contrary about how the fight started, he's good to go.
You keep saying this shit about his story not having evidence to back up how the fight started- it doesnt matter because they cant prove him wrong.
Hes cant be found guilty just because he cant provide absolute proof that Trayvon started the fight.
He (should) walk because the prosecution cant prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he's lieing. (the prosecutor already admitted this to the judge during the bail hearing)
See what were getting at? He has enough evidence showing that 90% of his story is truth (Yes I know not who started the fight, the rest of his story, including that he was being assaulted by Trayvon).
Without evidence to the contrary, that becomes important. And without evidence that Zimmerman started the fight, and since the defense does have evidence that he was truthful with the rest of the story, it should be an easy night for the defense.
i agree they can't (more accurately at this point - have not yet) proved his story to be false
I also agree that the facts available lend credence to Zimmermans story but they also lend the exact same credence to the speculated story that I provided
I also of course agree that the burden of proof is on the prosecution and I've never claimed that I somehow know that Zimmerman story is not true
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i agree they can't (more accurately at this point - have not yet) proved his story to be false
I also agree that the facts available lend credence to Zimmermans story but they also lend the exact same credence to the speculated story that I provided
I also of course agree that the burden of proof is on the prosecution and I've never claimed that I somehow know that Zimmerman story is not true
I wasnt necessarily speaking of just you. This is a pretty common argument. I think you argue just for the sake of arguing, lol.
But again, if they bring up an alternate scenario like your talking about, they better have proof that it differed than Zimmermans. Because thats whats going to be the benchmark. And anything else suggested is going to be tossed out unless they have proof.
Any alternate theory of what happened like the one your talking about is going to be considered speculation unless they actually have irrefutable proof, because what Zimmerman said went down is going to be it, no matter how many other ways it COULD have gone down.
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I wasnt necessarily speaking of you. This is a pretty common argument. I think you argue just for the sake of arguing, lol.
But again, if they bring up an alternate scenario like your talking about, they better have proof that it differed than Zimmermans. Because thats whats going to be the benchmark. And anything else suggested is going to be tossed out unless they have proof.
Any alternate theory of what happened like the one your talking about is going to be considered speculation unless they actually have irrefutable proof, because what Zimmerman said went down is going to be it, no matter how many other ways it COULD have gone down.
people get away with murder all the time
and
innocent people go to jail all the time too
and I do enjoy a good debate though I don't think you and I have any disagreement on this particular topic
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TO BE CLEAR -
The cuts on his head only show that he was LOSING the fight.
They DO NOT show who started the fight.
As far as I've heard - there is NO WITNESS saying who swung first! Right or wrong?
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TO BE CLEAR -
The cuts on his head only show that he was LOSING the fight.
They DO NOT show who started the fight.
As far as I've heard - there is NO WITNESS saying who swung first! Right or wrong?
Doesn't matter.
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i agree they can't (more accurately at this point - have not yet) proved his story to be false
I also agree that the facts available lend credence to Zimmermans story but they also lend the exact same credence to the speculated story that I provided
I also of course agree that the burden of proof is on the prosecution and I've never claimed that I somehow know that Zimmerman story is not true
agreed, difference is there is a story to corroberate from zimmerman which has supporting evidence.
Yes, anybody can make up a story around evidence.
I think space invaders came down and were involved in the fight but took off right before the eye witness saw them. Then came back and shot trayvon and told zimmerman that if he didnt say he did it then they would kill his family.
I cant prove it but the evidence lends itself to it...
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TO BE CLEAR -
The cuts on his head only show that he was LOSING the fight.
They DO NOT show who started the fight.
As far as I've heard - there is NO WITNESS saying who swung first! Right or wrong?
how does the cut show he was losing the fight?
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how does the cut show he was losing the fight?
Good point.
I'ts gonna be funny to see getbiggers blame the republican prosecutor, making up CTs, when the jury decides to lock zimm's ass up.
he meant well, but he didn't have anything but anger in him as he grabbed his gun and chased a person he believed to be on drugs, into the darkness.
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TO BE CLEAR -
The cuts on his head only show that he was LOSING the fight.
They DO NOT show who started the fight.
As far as I've heard - there is NO WITNESS saying who swung first! Right or wrong?
that proves it, he was charles bronson incarnate...
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how does the cut show he was losing the fight?
the cut on his head along with the eye witness seeing trayvon standing over him, says winner all over it...
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the cut on his head along with the eye witness seeing trayvon standing over him, says winner all over it...
standing over him?
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straw - unless there is someone to say that Zimm initiated the physical confrontation, there by definition is reasonable doubt considering Zimm injuries and the fact that Trayvon was shot in the chest
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standing over him?
come on bro, how do you have this much of an opinion on this and not know these things?
you seem to have formed an opinion without any research at all...
the eye witness that looked out the window after hearing someone call for help(believe he said it was zimmerman) saw a person in a hoodie standing over a person calling for help. Told them to cut it out and that he was going to call the cops. Heard a shot and then ran back to the window and the ppl had reversed. The guy who was on the ground was now standing over the person who was on top previously....
seriously how have you formed an opinion and not done any research.
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any evidence of any moderately serious injury would have resulted in a trip to the hospital
a broken nose certainly would have been more than enough
A broken nose does not always involve medical attention let alone a trip to the hospital. A lot of people break their noses and don`t even realize it.
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come on bro, how do you have this much of an opinion on this and not know these things?
you seem to have formed an opinion without any research at all...
the eye witness that looked out the window after hearing someone call for help(believe he said it was zimmerman) saw a person in a hoodie standing over a person calling for help. Told them to cut it out and that he was going to call the cops. Heard a shot and then ran back to the window and the ppl had reversed. The guy who was on the ground was now standing over the person who was on top previously....
seriously how have you formed an opinion and not done any research.
I don't recall the standing part
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A broken nose does not always involve medical attention let alone a trip to the hospital. A lot of people break their noses and don`t even realize it.
I've known people who have suffered concussions and have decided against going to the hospital. What's the doctor really going to do? Give you a few pain pills and tell you to get some rest. Whether or not Zimmerman went to the hospital is largely irrelevant.
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I don't recall the standing part
you have to get past the media spin at first to the news report that starts about half way through the clip.
Has a supposed eye witness speaking about it.
I apologize he said "the person who was on top"...not standing
either way sure sounds like zimmerman was winning.
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WHO TOOK THESE PICTURES?
AND WHEN?
A friend of Zimmerman’s told the Daily News that Zimmerman has graphic photos he took of his own face showing serious injuries.
“He was beaten to a bloody pulp that night, and he’s lucky to be alive. There’s proof of that,” the friend of Zimmerman said.
~~~~~
“You (the media) are going to feel pretty stupid when you see them,” he said. “Soon enough everyone will see the damage this kid did to his head. A lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.
“Once the judge gets a look at these pictures he will dismiss this case and all you can crawl back into your holes,” he told a News reporter.
--bring it, 'anonymous' friend---let's see the 'graphic' bloody pulp pics.
There's a REAL serious timing issue with this guy's statement... check it out:
“He took the pictures himself...to protect himself. He knew they would come back for him. He had a good idea this wasn’t over. He’s not a dumb man.”
This statement implies that photos were taken AFTER he was RELEASED but PRIOR to him being charged and arrested (prior to them "coming back for him")
So let's run through the sequence of events of alleged photos depicting alleged bloody gory pulp....
1) GZ is apprehended and taken to police station
2) GZ is depicted at the PoPo getting out of the cruiser with Zero blood, guts, gore, pulp
3) GZ is interrogated for several hours
4) While GZ is interrogated he is not sure at that time whether he will be released or not
5) GZ is then released, goes home and goes to bed and skips going to the doctor prior to bed
For the statement to be made: "...he knew they would come back for him.." means this would have HAD to occur AFTER he was released. Because logic tells us that prior to his release he didn't know whether he'd even be going home that night, so he couldn't even have gotten as far as wondering whether they'd come back for him
And in fact if he took pictures AFTER he was released -- then where did all that alleged blood come from -- because there sure wasn't ANY blood showing in the photos taken at the police station when he was apprehended. And as far as we know and until proven otherwise, the photos taken at the police station by the surveillance camera prior to the interrogation - were the first ones to be taken time-wise. If indeed they were the first taken - then they establish very little evidence of blood, gore, pulp
Um, does anyone know if these pics were taken AFTER the pics of him with the clean head in the police station? If so, that's bad lol.
Anyone with link to PROOF of when these pics were taken? Cause he could have gone home and busted his own head open for public opinion purposes cause the lawyes/dad said to.
Proof of when pics were taken, please.
EXACTLY 3 Minutes after Martin was shot according to EXIF data from the IPhone that it was taken on.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-20/politics/31371705_1_trayvon-martin-abc-news-photo
Picture Of George Zimmerman's Head Three Minutes After He Shot Trayvon Martin
WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGE:
Michael Brendan Dougherty|April 20, 2012|
16,968|91
2
5
(ABC News)
According to a report from ABC News, there is potentially a new piece of evidence in the explosive Trayvon Martin murder case.
ABC News this morning showed a graphic image of the back of George Zimmerman's head on Good Morning America. The photo taken from an iPhone camera just moments after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
The gunshot was heard at 7:17 pm according to transcripts of 911 calls about the incident. The cell phone camera shows that the photo was taken at 7:19.
The photograph would bolster Zimmerman's public story that his head had been bashed on the sidewalk by Martin, just before he shot him.
Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-20/politics/31371705_1_trayvon-martin-abc-news-photo#ixzz1t79Snuix
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TA - your morphing into a right wing regressive fascist thug caveman is quite impressive!
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you have to get past the media spin at first to the news report that starts about half way through the clip.
Has a supposed eye witness speaking about it.
I apologize he said "the person who was on top"...not standing
either way sure sounds like zimmerman was winning.
sitting vs standing is the kind of thing that can destroy the credibility of a witness
I agree that, at the very least we can agree that Zimmerman "won"
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TA - your morphing into a right wing regressive fascist thug caveman is quite impressive!
I don`t even get how this issue could be even remotely political. It really goes to show you that some who classify themselves under a label, they will go right along with that group of people`s belief despite any and all evidence to the contrary. Group-Think at its finest.
Its quite pathetic at this point and I do not understand at all how or why a Pro-Trayvon (stupidity) position became a liberal platform.
They really look like morons and should be called out for it. I have noticed the major back-peddling the liberals have been doing, even going as far as to create ridiculous alternate scenarios to trying to find a "racist" element elsewhere because they so dearly want it to be about race.
Its pathetic. Its as if these liberals are the racist ones when they try their hardest to make something out of complete nonsense. For instance, Mitt Romney had a campaign banner that consisted of White Lettering on a Black Background which read-"Obama isn`t working". How anyone can find racism in that is mind boggling.
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I actually had the pleasure of watching two people fight over obamas golf addiction at the gymbtonight. One guy said it was ridiculous that in a time a crises Obama was playing so much golf, the older white Lib said it was a racist stereotype that anyone would bash Obama over his golf addiction.
I said to the older white Lib : Obama was hired because he was black, he will be fired due to hs failed bs.
LOL.
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I don`t even get how this issue could be even remotely political. It really goes to show you that some who classify themselves under a label, they will go right along with that group of people`s belief despite any and all evidence to the contrary. Group-Think at its finest.
Its quite pathetic at this point and I do not understand at all how or why a Pro-Trayvon (stupidity) position became a liberal platform.
They really look like morons and should be called out for it. I have noticed the major back-peddling the liberals have been doing, even going as far as to create ridiculous alternate scenarios to trying to find a "racist" element elsewhere because they so dearly want it to be about race.
Its pathetic. Its as if these liberals are the racist ones when they try their hardest to make something out of complete nonsense. For instance, Mitt Romney had a campaign banner that consisted of White Lettering on a Black Background which read-"Obama isn`t working". How anyone can find racism in that is mind boggling.
holy shit the very idea that his slogan is racist is just fucking retarded....no wonder he followed keith olberman and got canned.
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Photo tells much about case against Zimmerman (Worth a look)
The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | April 29, 2012 | George Parry, esquire
Posted on April 29, 2012 4:15:18 PM EDT by 2ndDivisionVet
To paraphrase President Obama, if I had a son who had been flat on the ground in a vicious fight, the back of his head would look like that of accused murderer George Zimmerman.
Thanks to a photograph broadcast by ABC News showing Zimmerman’s bloody head wounds, those trying to use Trayvon Martin’s death to challenge “stand your ground” self-defense laws had better start exploiting some other tragedy. For the picture demonstrates that Zimmerman was unable to retreat, since he was pinned to the ground taking a beating when he shot Martin. And note that one of the depicted wounds is long and straight, consistent with Zimmerman’s claim that Martin was pounding his head against an edged curbstone at the time of the fatal shot.
We don’t have all the facts, but there are things we do know.
For instance, the police radio tape proves that Zimmerman was describing his actions to the police as he allegedly stalked his victim. Doesn’t that undercut the murder charges? What kind of criminal calls 911 to tell the police he is hunting down his intended prey?
On the tape, Zimmerman not only advises he is following Martin, but he also asks for confirmation that a police officer is being dispatched to investigate. The dispatcher replies that Zimmerman doesn’t need to follow Martin, to which Zimmerman promptly responds “OK” and agrees, instead, to rendezvous with the en-route police officer.
Again, what kind of murderer, preparing for the kill, invites the police to interrupt his scheme? Moreover, doesn’t this conversation support Zimmerman’s claim that he had ceased his pursuit prior to the confrontation with Martin?
We also know that, after shooting Martin, Zimmerman waited for the police to arrive and cooperated fully with their investigation, even as emergency medical personnel treated his head wounds. Wouldn’t someone who had just committed a heinous hate crime potentially punishable by death or life imprisonment have fled the scene or, at least, requested legal counsel and refused to answer questions?
Zimmerman and Martin fought on the ground, and the fight ended when Zimmerman pulled the trigger. But at Zimmerman’s bail hearing, a prosecution detective, who had sworn out the arrest warrant, testified that he couldn’t say who had started the fight.
If this case goes to trial, the prosecution will need a better answer than that if it hopes to prove Zimmerman was the aggressor. And shouldn’t that key issue have been resolved before bringing murder charges against an obviously injured person claiming that he acted in self-defense?
While much evidence remains to be disclosed, what we have learned so far raises serious questions about the strength, rationale, and integrity of the prosecution’s case. These questions are all the more troubling given the tsunami of manufactured racist hysteria that clearly influenced the decision to arrest “white Hispanic” George Zimmerman.
Stay tuned.
******
George Parry is a former state and federal prosecutor practicing law in Philadelphia.
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imagine running two blocks just to get knocked on your ass. what a waste of cardio.
"He's running away" hahaha oh brother. I was not the aggressor but I did chase his ass two blocks thruy the dark with a gun while calling him an asshole.
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^^^
That proves it, he is guilty of first degree murder...
To bad you have no evidence what so ever and zimmerman has evidence to corroborate his story...
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^^^
That proves it, he is guilty of first degree murder...
To bad you have no evidence what so ever and zimmerman has evidence to corroborate his story...
He is not guilty of 1st degree murder. I've said form minute 1 that the shoot was legal.
He was playing that cutesy little game where "I'm the agressor by chasing you in the dark with a gun for 2 blocks, then suddenly when I realize your posture isn't prey and you are ready to spring on my ass, I'm deciding to freeze in my shoes and not be the aggressor".
In trayvon's mind, he saw an attack as imminent and he swung. Two completely diff realities. They are both legally covered, since there is no definition of when you are in fear. Zimm froze up once he saw the person he was following wasn't running.
AND THE SHOOT WAS LEGAL.
But I think the jury will convict him anyway. Won't be right, but it will punish the MFer who grabbed a gun and went running on the other side ofthe park after misidentifying trayvon as a burglar.
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imagine running two blocks just to get knocked on your ass. what a waste of cardio.
"He's running away" hahaha oh brother. I was not the aggressor but I did chase his ass two blocks thruy the dark with a gun while calling him an asshole.
:D
Well, when Zimmerman chased Trayvons ass 2 blocks (while on the phone with the police telling them whats up) and then give up and head back, only to have Trayvon chase HIS ass down and attack him, well that looks a little different doesnt it?
But you convientley leave that out.
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show me where a witness said trayvon chased him and attacked him ???
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show me where a witness said trayvon chased him and attacked him ???
Show me evidence Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and attacked him?
Show me evidence that he didnt lose sight of him, turn around and head back to his SUV like he said he did?
See you guys offer all these nice theories explaining WHY this could have happened or WHY you think he's lying, but nobody can prove any of it.
And in a courtroom, it doesnt matter what you KNOW, it only matters what you can PROVE.
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grabbed a gun
He didnt grab a gun numbnuts. He had one on him because he has a CWP and was on his way home.
You keep misconstruing that to make is sound like something it isnt.
Stop.
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I don`t even get how this issue could be even remotely political. It really goes to show you that some who classify themselves under a label, they will go right along with that group of people`s belief despite any and all evidence to the contrary. Group-Think at its finest.
Kind of describing 33333 with that one Bro.. But this is 100% true statement. The "we" think this way stance.....no matter what.
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Kind of describing 33333 with that one Bro.. But this is 100% true statement. The "we" think this way stance.....no matter what.
LOL 96% of blacks are obamabots and you have the balls to ascribe that label to me?
BTW - what group think do I engage in?
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LOL 96% of blacks are obamabots and you have the balls to ascribe that label to me?
BTW - what group think do I engage in?
I didnt say they werent obamabots... but that doesnt make you not a group thinker. You just suscribe to a different group. Not sure how one thing negates the other chief. Youre kind of doing it right now.
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show me where a witness said trayvon chased him and attacked him ???
nobody saw who attacked who.
we only know that 1 man chased the other 2 blocks. Then he shot him dead.
Now, zimm TOLD US he was attacked. What do you expect him to say?
I keep hearing people say "you can't PROVE trayvon didn't attack him" but I dont think you have to. We have proof that trayvo was fleeing (zimm admitted it) and we have proof that zimm chased him for 2 blocks (distance from 911 call to where shooting happened).
One man shot another dead in a dark street. There aren't going to be witnesses to the altercation, who started it. But you don't need that. The jury doesnt need that. They look at who chased a kid 2 blocks in the dark with a gun. That'll be enough to convict him. There aren't going to be witnesses - jurors have to try to determine what happened based upon everything that happened that night.
chasing a kid 2 blocks in the dark with a gun, only to claim self defense. LOL. His ass is going to prison.
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I didnt say they werent obamabots... but that doesnt make you not a group thinker. You just suscribe to a different group. Not sure how one thing negates the other chief. Youre kind of doing it right now.
Tell me what group think I engage in?
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He didnt grab a gun numbnuts. He had one on him because he has a CWP and was on his way home.
You keep misconstruing that to make is sound like something it isnt.
Stop.
He was the neighborhood watch captain, but the watch rules specifically say one cannot carry a gun when on duty.
So he wasn't a neighborhood watch captain when he chased a kid two blocks in the dark with a gun. He was just some dickhead on a sunday afternoon, getting his rocks off by playing pretend police and terrifying some kid whose only crime was looking like a burglar.
zimm is fucked. the more i think about it.... i didn't know he told the 911 operator that trayvon RAN. This means there is ZERO PROOF that trayvon started it. in fact, jurors will look at a scared minor being chased 2 blocks by a fat man with a gun and probably believe he acted in self defense IF he even swung first. I mean, if you're walking your dog and a fat man with a gun chases u 2 blocks, you CAN punch him in the face once he reaches you because you're already in fear of your life and you're standing your ground.
To be honest, trayvon probably could have pulled a gun and shot zimmerman and it would have been legal. Cause he had already fled 2 blocks from the angry man with a gun throwing profanities his way.
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nobody saw who attacked who.
we only know that 1 man chased the other 2 blocks. Then he shot him dead.
Chased him on the phone with the dispatcher, than said he lost him and headed back to his truck.
You keep leaving that out as well. There is no proof it didnt go down as he said. There is no from you that he didnt give up, and that he confronted Zimmerman and attacked him.
You have no proof of any of your allegations. He has SOME proof of parts of his story.
Zimm - 1
You - 0
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He was the neighborhood watch captain, but the watch rules specifically say one cannot carry a gun when on duty.
So he wasn't a neighborhood watch captain when he chased a kid two blocks in the dark with a gun. He was just some dickhead on a sunday afternoon, getting his rocks off by playing pretend police and terrifying some kid whose only crime was looking like a burglar.
zimm is fucked. the more i think about it.... i didn't know he told the 911 operator that trayvon RAN. This means there is ZERO PROOF that trayvon started it. in fact, jurors will look at a scared minor being chased 2 blocks by a fat man with a gun and probably believe he acted in self defense IF he even swung first. I mean, if you're walking your dog and a fat man with a gun chases u 2 blocks, you CAN punch him in the face once he reaches you because you're already in fear of your life and you're standing your ground.
To be honest, trayvon probably could have pulled a gun and shot zimmerman and it would have been legal. Cause he had already fled 2 blocks from the angry man with a gun throwing profanities his way.
He wasnt actively on watch, therefore he wasnt breaking any rules.
And yeah, he told dispatch he took off, and then said he gave up and went back to his truck. Do you think the juries are going to say, "Oh, a 6'3 black kid took off running away from a short fat middle age mexican, and he couldnt get away"? That he couldnt outrun a fat mexican? REALLY!?
REALLY?
You really think a short fat middle age mexican ran down a young tall athletic black man? And this is your argument?
If anything, this should be more proof he was confronted by Trayvon. An athletic young black kid takes off running away from a short fat mexican. But the somehow short fat mexican winds up on the ground getting his ass kicked. I dont think the Mexican could have caught up with the kid and attacked him bro.
This is using your own supposition logic.
240 logic at its finest.
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Chased him on the phone with the dispatcher, than said he lost him and headed back to his truck.
His truck was 2 blocks from the spot where the shooting happened.
So unless trayvon dragged him kicking and screaming for 2 blocks for a shooting, methinks his ass didn't go back to the truck ;)
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I believe trayvon ran until he got around the corner, then stopped to continue his phone convo.
i believe zimm cut thru between the blocks (as this image shows) and intercepted trayvon.
there is no proof either man attacked - but lots of proof a 20-something with a gun went two blocks to run into a 17 year old kid... and then he shot him.
Toss in the exaggerative nature of his statements as icing on the cake. I dont see how he walks.
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Tell me what group think I engage in?
Man im not about to play this game with you.. you know what the fuck group youre in.. im not gonna get in to this trolling shit with you
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Man im not about to play this game with you.. you know what the fuck group youre in.. im not gonna get in to this trolling shit with you
FAIL - you can type that world salad but not list the things you claim about me. Got it.
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FAIL - you can type that world salad but not list the things you claim about me. Got it.
You want me to play this stupid ass game with you.. The semantics game.. and im not... because when i trip you up.. you just say "ohhh i was was just bustin balls" or some other kind of lame excuse. You know what the fuck you are.
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You want me to play this stupid ass game with you.. The semantics game.. and im not... because when i trip you up.. you just say "ohhh i was was just bustin balls" or some other kind of lame excuse. You know what the fuck you are.
Yeah - I am the guy that came and pissed and took a big dump on your Hope and Change parade and media driven narratives.
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Yeah - I am the guy that came and pissed and took a big dump on your Hope and Change parade and media driven narratives.
i have zero clue on what the fuck youre talking about
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You want me to play this stupid ass game with you.. The semantics game.. and im not... because when i trip you up.. you just say "ohhh i was was just bustin balls" or some other kind of lame excuse. You know what the fuck you are.
You have to admit though, you and some of the others got absolutely PWNED with this Zimmerman thing. In fact, the lot of you still want to cling to a sinking ship rather than simply admit that you were easily fooled and misled.
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You have to admit though, you and some of the others got absolutely PWNED with this Zimmerman thing. In fact, the lot of you still want to cling to a sinking ship rather than simply admit that you were easily fooled and misled.
Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.
My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.
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Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.
My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.
I`d rather live in a country that doesn`t arrest for trumped up charges.
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Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.
My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.
Stick to dissecting frogs doc. There were no grounds whatsoever 2nd degree then or now!
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I`d rather live in a country that doesn`t arrest for trumped up charges.
Well i wouldnt actually describe this situation as "trumped up"
Guy standing over dead body...police come...."hey what happened here"...Guy replies "hey.. he came at me bro..had to down him"
Police respond... "oh ok.. youre cool"..
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Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.
My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.
especially considering the dead guy was unarmed and not commiting any crime
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Ok.. im not sure you guys have a clear understanding of my gripe. Im not saying throw out due process...{AHEM} as some of us have stated many many times. That would be UnAmerican.
My gripe is that, at the time of the event. There should have been an arrest as there was a guy dead, and 1 persons side of the story. Thats it. Thats all. If you kill someone and there arent any eye witnesses to confirm it was self defense AT THE TIME OF THE ARREST....Then that person should be arrested and charged with atleast second degree. Now if there are people who come out later and say "oh it was self defense" and all evidence points as such, its a different story.
Arrested for committing what crime at the time of the event?
I find it funny how quickly the lynch mob is willing to throw out the rule of law when something happens that they don't like. Shit, why not arrest everyone in the country and then we can determine if they committed crimes so then we can hold them. ::)
People, even those who are quite intelligent, can be such sheeple.
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Well i wouldnt actually describe this situation as "trumped up"
Guy standing over dead body...police come...."hey what happened here"...Guy replies "hey.. he came at me bro..had to down him"
Police respond... "oh ok.. youre cool"..
except there was an eye witness that saw trayvon on top of zimmerman fighting seconds before the shooting....
You cant arrest someone simply b/c you want to, you need evidence...
what evidence is there at all that zimmerman commited a crime?
not that he made a shitty decision, that he commited a CRIME?
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except there was an eye witness that saw trayvon on top of zimmerman fighting seconds before the shooting....
You cant arrest someone simply b/c you want to, you need evidence...
what evidence is there at all that zimmerman commited a crime?
not that he made a shitty decision, that he commited a CRIME?
the eyewitness only tells us that zimmerman was losing a fight.
not who started the fight.
And there are a Lot of times when a person is convicted of a crime even when there isn't a 'witness who saw the whole damn thing'.
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the eyewitness only tells us that zimmerman was losing a fight.
not who started the fight.
And there are a Lot of times when a person is convicted of a crime even when there isn't a 'witness who saw the whole damn thing'.
You keep saying this, not once have you been able to back it up.
Especially when the defendant has some evidence to corroborate his story and the prosecution has nothing to prove his story wrong.
I maintain you cant be this stupid - no one can be this ignorant of the legal system.
Innocent until proven guilty means his story is automatically 100% truth unless the prosecution can prove it wrong. Deal with it.
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You keep saying this, not once have you been able to back it up.Especially when the defendant has some evidence to corroborate his story and the prosecution has nothing to prove his story wrong.
I maintain you cant be this stupid - no one can be this ignorant of the legal system.
Innocent until proven guilty means his story is automatically 100% truth unless the prosecution can prove it wrong. Deal with it.
there are plenty of cases where people are convicted without any eyewitness
Here's a case where there was an eyewitness who saw the event and corroborated the shooters story and he was still convicted. This case seems unbelievable since the shooter was defending himself and family on his own
property from an armed assailant who kept advancing even when given a warning shot. If this doesn't count as self defence much less "stand your ground" then what the heck does?
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/
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the eyewitness only tells us that zimmerman was losing a fight.
not who started the fight.
And there are a Lot of times when a person is convicted of a crime even when there isn't a 'witness who saw the whole damn thing'.
never said it did, what it does do though is help corroberate part of zimmermans story which is more than can be said for any of the assinine speculation you have.
You dont arrest someone b/c you feel they are lying, you need EVIDENCE!!!
what evidence do you have that he commited a crime?
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there are plenty of cases where people are convicted without any eyewitness
Here's a case where there was an eyewitness who saw the event and corroborated the shooters story and he was still convicted. This case seems unbelievable since the shooter was defending himself and family on his own
property from an armed assailant who kept advancing even when given a warning shot. If this doesn't count as self defence much less "stand your ground" then what the heck does?
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/
not quite the same bro, in this case there was no physical altercation. He didnt have his head beat into the concrete or a supposed broken nose.
This guy was coming towards him with nothing in his hands(although he did have a pocket knife in his pocket) and he got shot.
Im not saying I think what this guy did was right or wrong, I dont think he should be serving a life sentence. If somebody pointed a knife at me or a friend let alone a child or my child I would probably have reacted the same way.
but to compare the two instances isnt right, in one instance you have a proven altercation in which the person who shot was losing and feared for his life. In the other you have no altercation and a guy coming towards him with no weapon in hand.
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not quite the same bro, in this case there was no physical altercation. He didnt have his head beat into the concrete or a supposed broken nose.
This guy was coming towards him with nothing in his hands(although he did have a pocket knife in his pocket) and he got shot.
Im not saying I think what this guy did was right or wrong, I dont think he should be serving a life sentence. If somebody pointed a knife at me or a friend let alone a child or my child I would probably have reacted the same way.
but to compare the two instances isnt right, in one instance you have a proven altercation in which the person who shot was losing and feared for his life. In the other you have no altercation and a guy coming towards him with no weapon in hand.
I presented this is response to Shockwaves question to 240
In regard to your comments the dead guy in this case had a history of threatening behavior, was previously warned was on the guys property and was armed (albeit with a pocket knife but that's more than Zimmerman had) and advancing toward him and didn't stop when given a warning shot. Also, the shooter was not arrested until a year after the event
btw -I don't buy Zimmermans claim that he was in mortal danger and needed to use deadly force. I know it's his "story" but I don't buy it and I don't think his injuries support it.
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I presented this is response to Shockwaves question to 240
In regard to your comments the dead guy in this case had a history of threatening behavior, was previously warned was on the guys property and was armed (albeit with a pocket knife but that's more than Zimmerman had) and advancing toward him and didn't stop when given a warning shot. Also, the shooter was not arrested until a year after the event
btw -I don't buy Zimmermans claim that he was in mortal danger and needed to use deadly force. I know it's his "story" but I don't buy it and I don't think his injuries support it.
He knew the guy had a knife at one time, he didnt know the guy had a knife in his pocket. If you use that logic then zimmerman could say he thought trayvon had something as he saw him put something in his pocket while walking around.
I know you dont buy it but then again, youve never really been in a physical altercation going off of any of your posts. Let alone one that you feel your life could have been in jeopardy.
You think that just b/c the wounds werent life threatening means he isnt justfied in using that as a defense.
At the time you dont know whats going on or how bad your injuries are. Do you know how to tell the difference between a life threatening head wound and one that may just need stiches when your heads being bounced off the concrete?
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He knew the guy had a knife at one time, he didnt know the guy had a knife in his pocket. If you use that logic then zimmerman could say he thought trayvon had something as he saw him put something in his pocket while walking around.
I know you dont buy it but then again, youve never really been in a physical altercation going off of any of your posts. Let alone one that you feel your life could have been in jeopardy.
You think that just b/c the wounds werent life threatening means he isnt justfied in using that as a defense.
At the time you dont know whats going on or how bad your injuries are. Do you know how to tell the difference between a life threatening head wound and one that may just need stiches when your heads being bounced off the concrete?
Exactly. Liam Neeson`s wife dropped dead as a result of a light head injury and she did not seek medical attention as it was not serious from the outset, but surely proved fatal.
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I presented this is response to Shockwaves question to 240
In regard to your comments the dead guy in this case had a history of threatening behavior, was previously warned was on the guys property and was armed (albeit with a pocket knife but that's more than Zimmerman had) and advancing toward him and didn't stop when given a warning shot. Also, the shooter was not arrested until a year after the event
btw -I don't buy Zimmermans claim that he was in mortal danger and needed to use deadly force. I know it's his "story" but I don't buy it and I don't think his injuries support it.
On 16 March 2009, Richardson sustained a head injury when she fell while taking a beginner skiing lesson at the Mont Tremblant Resort in Quebec, Canada about 80 miles (130 km) from Montreal. The injury was followed by a lucid interval, when Richardson seemed to be fine and was able to talk and act normally. Paramedics and an ambulance which initially responded to the accident were told they were not needed and left.[18] Refusing medical attention twice, she returned to her hotel room and about three hours later was taken to a local hospital in Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts after complaining of a headache.[19][20] She was transferred from there by ambulance to Hôpital du Sacré-Cśur, Montreal, in critical condition and was admitted about seven hours after the fall.[21][22] The following day she was flown to Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City, where she died on 18 March.[1][23] An autopsy conducted by the New York City Medical Examiners Office on 19 March revealed the cause of death was an "epidural hematoma due to blunt impact to the head", and her death was ruled an accident.[
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TA is getting wiser as he ages.
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He knew the guy had a knife at one time, he didnt know the guy had a knife in his pocket. If you use that logic then zimmerman could say he thought trayvon had something as he saw him put something in his pocket while walking around.
I know you dont buy it but then again, youve never really been in a physical altercation going off of any of your posts. Let alone one that you feel your life could have been in jeopardy.
You think that just b/c the wounds werent life threatening means he isnt justfied in using that as a defense.
At the time you dont know whats going on or how bad your injuries are. Do you know how to tell the difference between a life threatening head wound and one that may just need stiches when your heads being bounced off the concrete?
first of all let's be clear. I don't agree with John McNeil being charged with murder or serving a life sentence
second, I'm 45 years old and I'm a big guy and I have been since about 16 years old. The last time I was in any kind of a fight was maybe late teens early twenties but I went to a public high school in Texas and got in fights, clearly none that were life threatening. Usually I was the one starting it because I was bigger and felt confident. Eventually you grow up and mature and learn how to avoid fighting.
let's compare the two dead people
Martin - not threatening anyone, not carrying a weapon, not known to the person who killed him or having any prior contact where he threatened his killer, not on his killers property, etc...
Epp - prior aggressive behaviour and arguments with McNeil, according to the story "Epp pointed a folding utility knife at McNeil's childs face and said "why don't you make me leave", Epp then turns around and goes to his truck and puts something in his pocket, then approaches McNeil in an aggressive manner and doesn't stop when given a warning shot
those are the two set ups
do you see any differences?
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first of all let's be clear. I don't agree with John McNeil being charged with murder or serving a life sentence
second, I'm 45 years old and I'm a big guy and I have been since about 16 years old. The last time I was in any kind of a fight was maybe late teens early twenties but I went to a public high school in Texas and got in fights, clearly none that were life threatening. Usually I was the one starting it because I was bigger and felt confident. Eventually you grow up and mature and learn how to avoid fighting.
let's compare the two dead people
Martin - not threatening anyone, not carrying a weapon, not known to the person who killed him or having any prior contact where he threatened his killer, not on his killers property, etc...
Epp - prior aggressive behaviour and arguments with McNeil, according to the story "Epp pointed a folding utility knife at McNeil's childs face and said "why don't you make me leave", Epp then turns around and goes to his truck and puts something in his pocket, then approaches McNeil in an aggressive manner and doesn't stop when given a warning shot
those are the two set ups
do you see any differences?
and I bet all those fights were probably simple little fist fights where everyone goes home at the end of the day maybe you get a fat lip or black eye but thats about it?
shit doesnt happen like that anymore bro, ppl die for looking at ppl wrong or saying the wrong thing even if it wasnt meant in the way it was taken.
Ive seen ppl shot/stabbed for trivial ass shit, trust me these days in a fight your life is in danger much much more than it was when you were growing up.
LMFAO so you think bashing someones head into the concrete while on top of them isnt threatening anyone?
no the story is the guy pointed a knife at his sone while he was on the phone with his dad. The guy who shot wasnt at home when that took place he got home and they guy was in a neighbors drive way or something. He got home exchanged words, grabbed his gun and they guy started at him, he shot a warning shot, they guy didnt stop and then shot him in the head.
not two stories that can be compared if you ask me.
You conviently leave out the fact that trayvon was assualting zimmerman, why?
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Exactly. Liam Neeson`s wife dropped dead as a result of a light head injury and she did not seek medical attention as it was not serious from the outset, but surely proved fatal.
yep and that's why I expect the ambulance to take Zimmerman to the hospital if he had any kind of potential serious head injury
if he had a broken nose that should be known my now too
let's be perfectly clear, I have no doubt that Zimmerman THOUGHT he was in mortal danger but from what we know from the info the public domain that clearly does not appear to be the case
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yep and that's why I expect the ambulance to take Zimmerman to the hospital if he had any kind of potential serious head injury
if he had a broken nose that should be known my now too
let's be perfectly clear, I have no doubt that Zimmerman THOUGHT he was in mortal danger but from what we know from the info the public domain that clearly does not appear to be the case
That. Is what the whole case will boil down to under the "reasonable person" standard.
Usually if the reasonable person felt his life was in danger under those circumstances Zimm will walk. If the reasonable person should not felt his life was in danger, Zimm has problems, but not for second degree murder, which is a bogus charge.
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LMFAO so you think bashing someones head into the concrete while on top of them isnt threatening anyone?
no the story is the guy pointed a knife at his sone while he was on the phone with his dad. The guy who shot wasnt at home when that took place he got home and they guy was in a neighbors drive way or something. He got home exchanged words, grabbed his gun and they guy started at him, he shot a warning shot, they guy didnt stop and then shot him in the head.
not to stories that can be compared if you ask me.
You conviently leave out the fact that trayvon was assualting zimmerman, why?
I leave it out because there is no proof
Zimmerman could have assaulted Martin and scraped his head in the process
I haven't seen any proof of that his head was bashed into the concrete one time, much less for a minute as he claims
I don't see any proof, at this point, for the need of deadly force
I think Zimmerman fucked up and killed this guy unnecessarily and without a justifiable cause
I'm aware that is solely my opinion and I'm open to new information
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yep and that's why I expect the ambulance to take Zimmerman to the hospital if he had any kind of potential serious head injury
if he had a broken nose that should be known my now too
let's be perfectly clear, I have no doubt that Zimmerman THOUGHT he was in mortal danger but from what we know from the info the public domain that clearly does not appear to be the case
do you know what the EMT's report was?
I bet you they told zimmerman that he should go to the hospital but he decided against it.
I agree on the broken nose but then again that isnt something you have to go to the doctor for either. Ive had dislocated fingers, probably a broken toe and I didnt go to the doctor.
Know why?
My mom told me that the doctor wouldnt be able to do much if anything for me anyway...LOL
my point is some ppl dont go to the doctor unless they HAVE TO...
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I leave it out because there is no proof
Zimmerman could have assaulted Martin and scraped his head in the process
I haven't seen any proof of that his head was bashed into the concrete one time, much less for a minute as he claims
I don't see any proof, at this point, for the need of deadly force
I think Zimmerman fucked up and killed this guy unnecessarily and without a justifiable cause
I'm aware that is solely my opinion and I'm open to new information
The fact that an eye witness saw trayvon fighting with him, on top of him lends credibility to his story.
Again you have absolutely nothing to back up your story, just opinion based on opinion.
why do you take the other self defense story at face value then?
I think they guy was taunting him, telling him that he has just got back from plowing his wife. When the guy said stop and moved to shake hands and ask for a truce the guy shot him in the head.
I have no proof of any of this, it is just my opinion...
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Zimmerman will walk.
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Especially when the defendant has some evidence to corroborate his story
ZImmerman has ZERO evidence to corroborate trayvon started the fight.
There's plenty of evidence he was LOSING the fight and screaming for help.
But can you please list the evidence that trayvon started it? I dont think there is any. ???
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ZImmerman has ZERO evidence to corroborate trayvon started the fight.
There's plenty of evidence he was LOSING the fight and screaming for help.
But can you please list the evidence that trayvon started it? I dont think there is any. ???
can you please list the evidence you have to back up any of your claims?
well then, zimmerman can backup some of his claims...YOU CANT!!!
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can you please list the evidence you have to back up any of your claims?
well then, zimmerman can backup some of his claims...YOU CANT!!!
HAHAHAHAHHA there is no evidence that either man started the fight.
There is a shitload of evidence that trayvon ran away (zimm admitted it)
There is a shitload of eviednce that zimm walked from truck to a spot 2 blocks away for confrontation
There is a shitload of evidence that zimm believed TM was a burglar
There is a shitload of evidence that zimm was angry - use of the F word, calling Tm an asshole
There is a shitload of evidence that zimm pursued TM two blocks into the darkness wearing a gun
We agree there is ZERO evidence which may started the fight. But the jury may look at all of these items and believe there's a damn high likelihood Zimm started it.
There are plenty of times when 2 ppl fight, no witnesses, and one ends up dead. If a lack of a physical witness meant you walked, you'd have a LOT more people just waiting until dark, chasing their enemy 2 blocks while calling him as asshole, ,shooting his heart out his back once nobody is around, then shrugging it off...
ZERO evidence either man started fight. Plenty of evidence ZImm was aggressor all the way up to the confrontation. enjoy your 30 years in jail, zimm.
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HAHAHAHAHHA there is no evidence that either man started the fight.
There is a shitload of evidence that trayvon ran away (zimm admitted it)
There is a shitload of eviednce that zimm walked from truck to a spot 2 blocks away for confrontation
There is a shitload of evidence that zimm believed TM was a burglar
There is a shitload of evidence that zimm was angry - use of the F word, calling Tm an asshole
There is a shitload of evidence that zimm pursued TM two blocks into the darkness wearing a gun
We agree there is ZERO evidence which may started the fight. But the jury may look at all of these items and believe there's a damn high likelihood Zimm started it.
There are plenty of times when 2 ppl fight, no witnesses, and one ends up dead. If a lack of a physical witness meant you walked, you'd have a LOT more people just waiting until dark, chasing their enemy 2 blocks while calling him as asshole, ,shooting his heart out his back once nobody is around, then shrugging it off...
ZERO evidence either man started fight. Plenty of evidence ZImm was aggressor all the way up to the confrontation. enjoy your 30 years in jail, zimm.
not at all plenty of evidence that he disengaged his following while carrying his LICENSED pistol and went back to his truck(by plenty im using your loose definition)
Plenty of evidence that he was indeed being assualted
none of this matters however b/c none of the shit you have "evidence" for is illegal...
to bad shit head!!!
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not at all plenty of evidence that he disengaged his following while carrying his LICENSED pistol and went back to his truck(by plenty im using your loose definition)
Plenty of evidence that he was indeed being assualted
none of this matters however b/c none of the shit you have "evidence" for is illegal...
to bad shit head!!!
The fight happened two blocks from his truck. within what, 3 minutes? Something like 3 mintues between the time he hung up and the time 911 calls recorded shots? how long was it?
yeah, good luck there. Really, he fccked up. it's all on tape. he admitted trayvon ran away. he created the entire shitstorm. And your defense is "but but but nobody saw the shooting itself"... ignoring the fact he's on 911 tape chasing a kid and admitting he was the one doing the pursuit...
Sorry, I think the shoot at the moment was legal. But I think he's going to prison. "He ran away" then you had to shoot to defend youself? and its true cause you can't prove otherwise cause i killed the witness" hahaha oh sweet sassy molassey.
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The fight happened two blocks from his truck. within what, 3 minutes? Something like 3 mintues between the time he hung up and the time 911 calls recorded shots? how long was it?
yeah, good luck there. Really, he fccked up. it's all on tape. he admitted trayvon ran away. he created the entire shitstorm. And your defense is "but but but nobody saw the shooting itself"... ignoring the fact he's on 911 tape chasing a kid and admitting he was the one doing the pursuit...
Sorry, I think the shoot at the moment was legal. But I think he's going to prison. "He ran away" then you had to shoot to defend youself? and its true cause you can't prove otherwise cause i killed the witness" hahaha oh sweet sassy molassey.
LOL at your timing and self biased logic you uneducated moron...
none of that proves that he wasnt on his way back to his truck, I never said he didnt have a hand in the tragedy.
ONLY THAT THERE ISNT ANY EVIDENCE THAT HE COMMITTED A CRIME!!!
He also admits that he stopped on the 911 tape, but you disregard that information why?
what logic do you use to use one piece of info and not another from 30 secs later? hmmmm.....
It doesnt matter what you think, its what you can prove.
SO, STILL NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE HE COMMITTED A CRIME HUH???
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he shot someone.
there is evidence he was the one doing the pursuit...
there is evndence he believed the man was on drugs...
there is evidence he was angry and using profanity and calling the victim names...
there is evidence the kid was almost home and he was nowhere near his home....
There's a dead fcking body on the ground. Now, jurors have to decide if they believe the living dude, that he was a calm rational dude, not angry, not looking for a confrontation, only running two blocks with gun calling names - but that somehow magically ended right before he was confronted.
Or, they have to decide the dude with a gun chasing a kid 2 blocks while calling him names found kid, and shot his ass.
I like how it's gone from "lots of evidence he was attacked" all the way to "no evidence who started it" to "no evidence of a crime".
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he shot someone.
there is evidence he was the one doing the pursuit...
there is evndence he believed the man was on drugs...
there is evidence he was angry and using profanity and calling the victim names...
there is evidence the kid was almost home and he was nowhere near his home....
There's a dead fcking body on the ground. Now, jurors have to decide if they believe the living dude, that he was a calm rational dude, not angry, not looking for a confrontation, only running two blocks with gun calling names - but that somehow magically ended right before he was confronted.
Or, they have to decide the dude with a gun chasing a kid 2 blocks while calling him names found kid, and shot his ass.
I like how it's gone from "lots of evidence he was attacked" all the way to "no evidence who started it" to "no evidence of a crime".
who ever said he was attacked?
he was assaulted, we do know this...
fact of the matter is there is evidence to back up parts of zimmermans story.
You however have no evidence.
Also you play that 911 tape and you get a calm, rational sounding individual. Not some ranting, angry lunatic that you want to believe he was.
there is no evidence to suppor that zimmerman commited a crime, right?
i like how you go from no evidence to he will be convicted...uneducated moron here folks
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yep and that's why I expect the ambulance to take Zimmerman to the hospital if he had any kind of potential serious head injury
if he had a broken nose that should be known my now too
let's be perfectly clear, I have no doubt that Zimmerman THOUGHT he was in mortal danger but from what we know from the info the public domain that clearly does not appear to be the case
In NC THINKING that you are in mortal danger is enough to shoot someone in self defense. Also, we have Castle Doctrine which covers your house as well as your car. If anyone APPEARS to be committing a felony or is ABOUT TO COMMIT one, you can shoot, no questions asked. Its a wonderful law to have.
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he was assaulted, we do know this...
No. We don't know that he was assaulted.
We only know that they were on the ground in a struggle and he was losing.
We don't know who started it. Zero witnesses to how it started.
All we know is that his fat ass was losing a fight. We don't know who swung first.
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the eyewitness only tells us that zimmerman was losing a fight.
not who started the fight.
And there are a Lot of times when a person is convicted of a crime even when there isn't a 'witness who saw the whole damn thing'.
dING DING DING..
Like what the fuck man.. you cant start a fight with someone.. get beat up, shoot them, and say " self defense"...like what the fuck are we talkin about over here
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can you please list the evidence you have to back up any of your claims?
well then, zimmerman can backup some of his claims...YOU CANT!!!
hell yeah he can back up his claims.. the only other person that can dispute it is 6 feet deep right now.. tha fuck
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No. We don't know that he was assaulted.
We only know that they were on the ground in a struggle and he was losing.
We don't know who started it. Zero witnesses to how it started.
All we know is that his fat ass was losing a fight. We don't know who swung first.
You need to be man enough to defend using your fists and not your gun
Othervise you could get in fights and you were on the losing end you would pull the gun. Guns are for fags
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The fact that an eye witness saw trayvon fighting with him, on top of him lends credibility to his story.
Again you have absolutely nothing to back up your story, just opinion based on opinion.
why do you take the other self defense story at face value then?
I think they guy was taunting him, telling him that he has just got back from plowing his wife. When the guy said stop and moved to shake hands and ask for a truce the guy shot him in the head.
I have no proof of any of this, it is just my opinion...
I disagree
I don't think it means anything other than at one moment Martin was on top of Zimmerman
It doesn't lend any support to the need for deadly force and obviously no support for who started or escalated the confrontation
Zimmerman made a choice that night to use deadly force and we, as a society via our legal system, get to decide whether that action was justfiable or not. There is no question that Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager so the only questions is was the use of deadly force justifiable.
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do you know what the EMT's report was?
I bet you they told zimmerman that he should go to the hospital but he decided against it.
I agree on the broken nose but then again that isnt something you have to go to the doctor for either. Ive had dislocated fingers, probably a broken toe and I didnt go to the doctor.
Know why?
My mom told me that the doctor wouldnt be able to do much if anything for me anyway...LOL
my point is some ppl dont go to the doctor unless they HAVE TO...
no I don't
do you?
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You need to be man enough to defend using your fists and not your gun
Othervise you could get in fights and you were on the losing end you would pull the gun. Guns are for fags
I'd speculate that Zimmerman never would have left his truck if he weren't carrying a gun
This guy created this situation when he chose to leave his truck and pursue Martin
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This is getting pathetic.
And 240, YOURE the one that has to substantiate your claims, Zimmermans claims under law is fact until proven false.
Zimmerman can corroborate parts of his story.
You can prove NONE of his story false.
So GTFO until you can prove any one single part of his story as a lie.
And dont give me this "He cant prove Trayvon started it!", Cause you cant prove Trayvon DIDNT start it, and thats what has to happen for your story to be even given a second thought.
He can prove parts.
You can disprove NONE.
Zimmerman - 1
240 - shame
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This is getting pathetic.
And 240, YOURE the one that has to substantiate your claims, Zimmermans claims under law is fact until proven false.Zimmerman can corroborate parts of his story.
You can prove NONE of his story false.
So GTFO until you can prove any one single part of his story as a lie.
And dont give me this "He cant prove Trayvon started it!", Cause you cant prove Trayvon DIDNT start it, and thats what has to happen for your story to be even given a second thought.
He can prove parts.
You can disprove NONE.
Zimmerman - 1
240 - shame
and we as a society should have the opportunity to investigate and determine whether this guys claims are true or false
that is a lot different then taking his word at the scene of an event where he shoots to death and unarmed person and then get's to go home with no investigation or opportunity by the state to see if he is telling the truth or not
btw - on the topic of Zimmerman being someone who tells the truth, he was sitting on 200k in donations while claiming poverty at his bail hearing
I wouldn't trust the guy as far as I could spit
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and we as a society should have the opportunity to investigate and determine whether this guys claims are true or false
that is a lot different then taking his word at the scene of an event where he shoots to death and unarmed person and then get's to go home with no investigation or opportunity by the state to see if he is telling the truth or not
btw - on the topic of Zimmerman being someone who tells the truth, he was sitting on 200k in donations while claiming poverty at his bail hearing
I wouldn't trust the guy as far as I could spit
Youre missing the point, im not arguing the guy should be investigated. Im saying that 240's claims are completely without evidence, and yet he tries to convict him based on nothing, while ignoring that Zimmerman has more evidence to corroborate his story than 240 has to discredit it.
Until 240 has ANYTHING that he can use to prove Zimmerman's story wrong, he's just blowing hot air. Thats my point. Yet he acts like Zimmerman has no credibility but 240's trailer predicitions are absolute fact, like the 240's "fact" that he was drunk cause he was heading home from target. His evidence? His head was bleeding, must be from alcohol.
True statement.
Im not arguing the guy should be investigated, im saying that under our system, his story is fact (especially since he has evidence to corroborate parts of it) unless they can prove him wrong.
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Youre missing the point, im not arguing the guy should be investigated. Im saying that 240's claims are completely without evidence, and yet he tries to convict him based on nothing, while ignoring that Zimmerman has more evidence to corroborate his story than 240 has to discredit it.
Until 240 has ANYTHING that he can use to prove Zimmerman's story wrong, he's just blowing hot air. Thats my point. Yet he acts like Zimmerman has no credibility but 240's trailer predicitions are absolute fact, like the 240's "fact" that he was drunk cause he was heading home from target. His evidence? His head was bleeding, must be from alcohol.
True statement.
Im not arguing the guy should be investigated, im saying that under our system, his story is fact (especially since he has evidence to corroborate parts of it) unless they can prove him wrong.
Ok - I haven't read all of 240's posts on this subject
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I will be surprised if Zimmerman serves any prison time. He will be a free man.
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I will be surprised if Zimmerman serves any prison time. He will be a free man.
Rightfully so. Try as they might, rule of law will win out over the lynch mob.
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Rightfully so. Try as they might, rule of law will win out over the lynch mob.
Well... Hopefully.
You can never count out the possibility of a jury that has already made up its mind prior to the case.
You would hope not... but the possibility always exists.
Hopefully the judge just throws it out based on lack of evidence (going by the prosecutors statement during the bail hearing), but I cant see that happening in a 2nd degree murder case.
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Well... Hopefully.
You can never count out the possibility of a jury that has already made up its mind prior to the case.
You would hope not... but the possibility always exists.
Hopefully the judge just throws it out based on lack of evidence (going by the prosecutors statement during the bail hearing), but I cant see that happening in a 2nd degree murder case.
Yeah, you're right. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. There was actually a column on Salon last week saying that, regardless of the facts, Zimmerman should be convicted in order to avoid riots. ::)
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Yeah, you're right. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. There was actually a column on Salon last week saying that, regardless of the facts, Zimmerman should be convicted in order to avoid riots. ::)
Pretty sure the founding fathers would just give up on us, lol.
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Well... Hopefully.
You can never count out the possibility of a jury that has already made up its mind prior to the case.You would hope not... but the possibility always exists.
Hopefully the judge just throws it out based on lack of evidence (going by the prosecutors statement during the bail hearing), but I cant see that happening in a 2nd degree murder case.
youi also can't rule out the possibility that his story falls apart when they start talking the witnesses, the friend Zimmerman supposedly called after the shooting, EMT's, Copsetc.. Nor can you rule out the possibility of him being convicted of neglient homicide (which I personally think would be fair)
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Pretty sure the founding fathers would just give up on us, lol.
This country has become everything they hated and fought against.
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Yeah, you're right. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. There was actually a column on Salon last week saying that, regardless of the facts, Zimmerman should be convicted in order to avoid riots. ::)
link ?
any way you look at it our society is the worse for Zimmermans series of bad decisions
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This country has become everything they hated and fought against.
the founders were in favor of killing innocent and unarmed men ?
I must have missed that day in school
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Yeah, you're right. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. There was actually a column on Salon last week saying that, regardless of the facts, Zimmerman should be convicted in order to avoid riots. ::)
If there are riots, I hope all store owners defend their property like these men.
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the founders were in favor of killing innocent and unarmed men ?
I must have missed that day in school
The founders were in favor of convicting a man, regardless of the facts, in order to avoid riots? Here I was thinking they set up this country's judicial system to revolve around "innocent until proven guilty".
Nice presumptions you're making. If it turns out that ol' Trayvon did in-fact jump Zimmerman as he was walking back to his car like claimed, then he was anything but "innocent".
You are one fucking stupid person. :)
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If there are riots, I hope all store owners defend their property like these men.
Guy with the baseball hat was bad ass.
I hope the ghetto thugs try another period like this. People are far better armed now and will be looking to take out these savages.
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The founders were in favor of convicting a man, regardless of the facts, in order to avoid riots? Here I was thinking they set up this country's judicial system to revolve around "innocent until proven guilty".
Nice presumptions you're making. If it turns out that ol' Trayvon did in-fact jump Zimmerman as he was walking back to his car like claimed, then he was anything but "innocent".
You are one fucking stupid person. :)
when did I say I was in favor of that ?
you're the one who brought it up and for all we know you're read it wrong or misunderstood the article
how about posting a link
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when did I say I was in favor of that ?
you're the one who brought it up and for all we know you're read it wrong or misunderstood the article
how about posting a link
How about you learn to Google?
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How about you learn to Google?
to save time I'm going to assume, as usual, that your reading comprehension sucks and the author never suggested such a thing
a perfect example would be the article of the 5 anarchists who you've concluded were part of OWS even though the article never says that
If you want to provide evidence to support your claim (a link would be fine and I'll read it for myself) feel free
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If only I cared about your opinion. :'(
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If only I cared about your opinion. :'(
I'd be satisfied if you just learned to read
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I'd be satisfied if you just learned to read
I feel so insulted knowing that comment came from the "genius" who claims George Washington was as liberal as he is and that the post office is doing great (as it loses billions).
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I feel so insulted knowing that comment came from the "genius" who claims George Washington was as liberal as he is and that the post office is doing great (as it loses billions).
no need to feel insulted
just learn to read and post links and you'll have made huge progress in not being a complete idiot
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Rightfully so. Try as they might, rule of law will win out over the lynch mob.
Shit.. you never know... those Rodney King cops beat that trial worse than they did King
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Shit.. you never know... those Rodney King cops beat that trial worse than they did King
Rodney King was another ghetto thug beast who we would have been better off without.
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Rodney King was another ghetto thug beast who we would have been better off without.
thanks for your imput.
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thanks for your imput.
The animal led cops on a fast speed chase high on LSD. What did he think was going to happen?
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and we as a society should have the opportunity to investigate and determine whether this guys claims are true or false
that is a lot different then taking his word at the scene of an event where he shoots to death and unarmed person and then get's to go home with no investigation or opportunity by the state to see if he is telling the truth or not
btw - on the topic of Zimmerman being someone who tells the truth, he was sitting on 200k in donations while claiming poverty at his bail hearing
I wouldn't trust the guy as far as I could spit
::)
Yes, because he was able to monitor his PayPal accounts while still in jail.
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I'd speculate that Zimmerman never would have left his truck if he weren't carrying a gun
This guy created this situation when he chose to leave his truck and pursue Martin
1. Zimmerman had every right to carry his firearm.
2. How far back do you want to take this? All of this If, If, If scenario nonsense. Could you also speculate that Zimmerman would have never left his truck if he decided to buy Ford Mustang instead? Or perhaps if his mother had an abortion, then poor little baby Trayvon would still be babbooning with us today. Maybe if a Hurricane struck last Fall, Zimmerman would have lost his gun permit in a flood. And on and on and on.
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::)
Yes, because he was able to monitor his PayPal accounts while still in jail.
He had already been spending the money so kind of hard to believe he was unaware it existed
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The animal led cops on a fast speed chase high on LSD. What did he think was going to happen?
How does that equate to being beat to within an inch of your life...
tha fuck are you talking about
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How does that equate to being beat to within an inch of your life...
tha fuck are you talking about
Truth - they should have just put him down like a rabid dog at the scene.
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He had already been spending the money so kind of hard to believe he was unaware it existed
???
He set the page up about a day or two before he was taken to jail. The 200,000 plus did not arrive as soon as he put the page up.
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If there are riots, I hope all store owners defend their property like these men.
X2 I would be proud to call those men my neighbors.
Nothing like being able to blow one of those cockroaches straight to hell and have the full letter of the law on your side. God that must be a great feeling.
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???
He set the page up about a day or two before he was taken to jail. The 200,000 plus did not arrive as soon as he put the page up.
he used some of the money from the account to pay the 10% fee for his bond so again, hard to explain how he didn't know about it. Also, his wife reported at his bond hearing that they had no money. Was she in Jail too? Did she not tell her husband about the money?
If you have some info on the exact timeline of when the money showed up then feel free to share it
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-27/justice/justice_florida-zimmerman-money_1_judge-delays-decision-website-gag-order?_s=PM:JUSTICE
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1. Zimmerman had every right to carry his firearm.
2. How far back do you want to take this? All of this If, If, If scenario nonsense. Could you also speculate that Zimmerman would have never left his truck if he decided to buy Ford Mustang instead? Or perhaps if his mother had an abortion, then poor little baby Trayvon would still be babbooning with us today. Maybe if a Hurricane struck last Fall, Zimmerman would have lost his gun permit in a flood. And on and on and on.
1. never said he didn't
2. Am I supposed to assume that is a serious comment. The point is that the fact that he had a gun probably emboldened him to pursue/confront Martin. His choices created the situation and the outcome
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he used some of the money from the account to pay the 10% fee for his bond so again, hard to explain how he didn't know about it. Also, his wife reported at his bond hearing that they had no money. Was she in Jail too? Did she not tell her husband about the money?
If you have some info on the exact timeline of when the money showed up then feel free to share it
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-27/justice/justice_florida-zimmerman-money_1_judge-delays-decision-website-gag-order?_s=PM:JUSTICE
1. Only 5000 dollars was used from that account to pay the bond.
2. Who cares? If he had 20 million in donations, why should it matter? His bond is excessive as it is, especially since he should have never been arrested in the first place.
3. He and his wife do not have many assests.
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X2 I would be proud to call those men my neighbors.
Nothing like being able to blow one of those cockroaches straight to hell and have the full letter of the law on your side. God that must be a great feeling.
Check this one out. Dude with the commander hat and flak jacket and glasses was bad ass.
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1. Only 5000 dollars was used from that account to pay the bond.
2. Who cares? If he had 20 million in donations, why should it matter? His bond is excessive as it is, especially since he should have never been arrested in the first place.
3. He and his wife do not have many assests.
it matters if you hide assets and it matters because it could be the means to become a flight risk
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1. never said he didn't
2. Am I supposed to assume that is a serious comment. The point is that the fact that he had a gun probably emboldened him to pursue/confront Martin. His choices created the situation and the outcome
I`d say he was concerned about his neighborhood and taking the gun with him was a great idea given the fact that baboons have robbed houses right in the very area where he routinely patrolled.
Trayvon`s choices created the situation and the outcome. The moron could have called the police or just kept walking, not paying Zimmerman any mind or could have gone to the nearest house for help if he felt like he needed it. What did he do instead? Confront and assault a man with a loaded gun.
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it matters if you hide assets and it matters because it could be the means to become a flight risk
He didn`t hide anything. His lawyer presented all of that information to the judge. The account was set up before his arrest and the account was public knowledge. It certainly was not done with ill intention or secretive in nature. He used PayPal which has a 100 percent accurate paper trail of every single donor.
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I`d say he was concerned about his neighborhood and taking the gun with him was a great idea given the fact that baboons have robbed houses right in the very area where he routinely patrolled.
Trayvon`s choices created the situation and the outcome. The moron could have called the police or just kept walking, not paying Zimmerman any mind or could have gone to the nearest house for help if he felt like he needed it. What did he do instead? Confront and assault a man with a loaded gun.
Martins choice was to go walk to the store and back
Zimmermans choice was to arm himself and pursue someone after being told not to pursue
I'm sure we can agree that there is correlation between having a gun and shooting someone and not having a gun and not shooting someone
Zimmerman chose to carry a gun. He chose to follow that person (a threatening activity all by itself)
No one knows what went down after that but without a gun I'm pretty sure both Zimmerman and Martin would be alive right now....instead of one of them being dead
Zimmerman choices created that outcome
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I have seen no links to witness statements on who STARTED the fight.
Nothing that says TM did it, nothing that says GZ did it.
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He didn`t hide anything. His lawyer presented all of that information to the judge. The account was set up before his arrest and the account was public knowledge. It certainly was not done with ill intention or secretive in nature. He used PayPal which has a 100 percent accurate paper trail of every single donor.
again, if you have some actual info as to the timeline then feel free to share it
he was released on Monday April 23rd and the story from CNN was written Friday April 27th and at that time the story says he collected 204k, used 5k for the bond and only has 150k left
So, assuming he knew nothing about the funds in that account, he spent 49k in "living expenses" in the 4 days after he was released
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again, if you have some actual info as to the timeline then feel free to share it
he was released on Monday April 23rd and the story from CNN was written Friday April 27th and at that time the story says he collected 204k, used 5k for the bond and only has 150k left
So, assuming he knew nothing about the funds in that account, he spent 49k in "living expenses" in the 4 days after he was released
Info on a timeline for what? Why are you concerned with what he is doing with donations that were sent to him to spend freely as he wishes? The money was given for that very purpose.
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Info on a timeline for what? Why are you concerned with what he is doing with donations that were sent to him to spend freely as he wishes? The money was given for that very purpose.
your claim on when the money showed up
???He set the page up about a day or two before he was taken to jail. The 200,000 plus did not arrive as soon as he put the page up.
somehow you seem to know that Zimmerman was not aware of the funds in the account and/or that the funds were not there at the time he and his wife were claiming poverty in order to get a reduced bail amount
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your claim on when the money showed up
somehow you seem to know that Zimmerman was not aware of the funds in the account and/or that the funds were not there at the time he and his wife were claiming poverty in order to get a reduced bail amount
Would it make you feel better if he gave the money back?
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again, if you have some actual info as to the timeline then feel free to share it
he was released on Monday April 23rd and the story from CNN was written Friday April 27th and at that time the story says he collected 204k, used 5k for the bond and only has 150k left
So, assuming he knew nothing about the funds in that account, he spent 49k in "living expenses" in the 4 days after he was released
I'm actually glad he got the money. That means that he can get some decent representation so that he'll get a fair trial. I wouldn't want to face murder charges with a public (government) defender.
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Truth - they should have just put him down like a rabid dog at the scene.
You cant be an American or know what it means to be a true American with statements like that. You have no clue what it means to live in my great country. Your political and social views are more consistant with some kind of 3rd world commie country.. You in no way, shape, or form, are a patriot. You have no idea what an American is. Fucking sad
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You cant be an American or know what it means to be a true American with statements like that. You have no clue what it means to live in my great country. Your political and social views are more consistant with some kind of 3rd world commie country.. You in no way, shape, or form, are a patriot. You have no idea what an American is. Fucking sad
Why? Rodney King endangered the lives of dozens of people being high on lsd, high speed chase at what over 100 miles per hour or something?
They went overboard for sure, but rodney king deserved a fucking beatdown regardless.
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Would it make you feel better if he gave the money back?
nope -I don't give a shit that people give him money
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Why? Rodney King endangered the lives of dozens of people being high on lsd, high speed chase at what over 100 miles per hour or something?
They went overboard for sure, but rodney king deserved a fucking beatdown regardless.
Which is why you dont know what it is to be an American. To live by a constitution. Do be granted rights... Being American isnt some racial birth right for whites that can be morphed when convienent. Being American means a lot more than that. Being American says you cant just willie nillie say what someone "deserves"... on a floating scale....as you like to think.. Like I said.. you have no clue of what America was founded for and what reasons we differed from other ways of life. It would take me a month. But go back and start reading about why my country was founded. And the though process of the forefathers. And you sir, arent consistant with them in the slightest...
"he deserved it" ::) fucking amazing... you my friend arent a Patriot
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Which is why you dont know what it is to be an American. To live by a constitution. Do be granted rights... Being American isnt some racial birth right for whites that can be morphed when convienent. Being American means a lot more than that. Being American says you cant just willie nillie say what someone "deserves"... on a floating scale....as you like to think.. Like I said.. you have no clue of what America was founded for and what reasons we differed from other ways of life. It would take me a month. But go back and start reading about why my country was founded. And the though process of the forefathers. And you sir, arent consistant with them in the slightest...
"he deserved it" ::) fucking amazing... you my friend arent a Patriot
Yeah - according to the strange world now - Rodney king is the hero and victim, and the poor bastards who may have been run over, killed, maimed, etc due to his being a basehead and high speed chases of over 100 miles per ohur are just road kill.
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You cant be an American or know what it means to be a true American with statements like that. You have no clue what it means to live in my great country. Your political and social views are more consistant with some kind of 3rd world commie country.. You in no way, shape, or form, are a patriot. You have no idea what an American is. Fucking sad
How is his statement any different from you demanding that Zimmerman be arrested when it couldn't be proven that he committed a crime? You wanted to throw out 200+ years of law because a black guy got shot. The lynch mob tactics over the last month are no different from the comment you quoted.
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no I don't
do you?
no I dont but then again im not making any assumptions...you are!!!
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hell yeah he can back up his claims.. the only other person that can dispute it is 6 feet deep right now.. tha fuck
I see so the only time crimes are prosecuted succesfully is when there are eye witnesses?
what evidence if any do you have to back up your claims?
If you have none, just say so...
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I disagree
I don't think it means anything other than at one moment Martin was on top of Zimmerman
It doesn't lend any support to the need for deadly force and obviously no support for who started or escalated the confrontation
Zimmerman made a choice that night to use deadly force and we, as a society via our legal system, get to decide whether that action was justfiable or not. There is no question that Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager so the only questions is was the use of deadly force justifiable.
if you dont think that the fact that zimmerman told the police he was having his head bounced off the concrete by trayvon and then an eye witness said he saw trayvon on top of zimmerman fighting isnt corroberating evidence for zimmermans story...YOURE A MORON!!!
the rest I agree with.
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no I dont but then again im not making any assumptions...you are!!!
you're saying you didn't make assumptions about the EMT report or something else ?
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you're saying you didn't make assumptions about the EMT report or something else ?
LOL excuse me I took the opposite position from you with not evidence, based soley on opinion...
Im guessing you dont think my opinion is credible?
Im guessing without any evidence the jury will feel the same about your biased opinion
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LOL excuse me I took the opposite position from you with not evidence, based soley on opinion...
Im guessing you dont think my opinion is credible?
Im guessing without any evidence the jury will feel the same about your biased opinion
I don't even know what you're refering to at this point
I've already told you that I don't agree that Martin on top of Zimmerman is proof or lends credibility to anything (go back to page 15)
I don't know what opinions you're talking about
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I don't even know what you're refering to at this point
I've already told you that I don't agree that Martin on top of Zimmerman is proof or lends credibility to anything (go back to page 15)
I don't know what opinions you're talking about
I know, this makes you a moron.
A person who thinks that an eye witness seeing trayvon on top of zimmerman fighting isnt corroborating evidence to zimmermans statement that trayvon was on top of him beating him is a FUKING MORON!!!
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I know, this makes you a moron.
A person who thinks that an eye witness seeing trayvon on top of zimmerman fighting isnt corroborating evidence to zimmermans statement that trayvon was on top of him beating him is a FUKING MORON!!!
He's saying its not evidence of who started the fight.
Its a way to misdirect away from the fact that Zimmerman has proof of part of his story.
Technically he's correct, but really it doesnt help the prosecutions stance at all.
At this point all theyre trying to do is discredit the supporting evidence Zimmerman has by saying "Well it still doesnt prove who started it".
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How is his statement any different from you demanding that Zimmerman be arrested when it couldn't be proven that he committed a crime? You wanted to throw out 200+ years of law because a black guy got shot. The lynch mob tactics over the last month are no different from the comment you quoted.
Not one bit. When there is a dead person and your story is "he came at me bro so i had to down him"...dude you killed someone... tha fuck?
Arrested or "shot like a rabid dog" is totally different... we arent talking about a fight... we are talking about someone who is dead and only one side of the story existed...the killers side....i didnt say shit about trying him right there or he is guilty of first degree murder. But rational thought suggests that if someone is dead and self-defense is coming from 1 person at that time...then an arrest should be made... this isnt that tough to grasp... like seriously..
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Not one bit. When there is a dead person and your story is "he came at me bro so i had to down him"...dude you killed someone... tha fuck?
Arrested or "shot like a rabid dog" is totally different... we arent talking about a fight... we are talking about someone who is dead and only one side of the story existed...the killers side....i didnt say shit about trying him right there or he is guilty of first degree murder. But rational thought suggests that if someone is dead and self-defense is coming from 1 person at that time...then an arrest should be made... this isnt that tough to grasp... like seriously..
Whats with all of the "Ebonics" as of late? Did Trayvon bring this out all of a sudden?
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Not one bit. When there is a dead person and your story is "he came at me bro so i had to down him"...dude you killed someone... tha fuck?
Arrested or "shot like a rabid dog" is totally different... we arent talking about a fight... we are talking about someone who is dead and only one side of the story existed...the killers side....i didnt say shit about trying him right there or he is guilty of first degree murder. But rational thought suggests that if someone is dead and self-defense is coming from 1 person at that time...then an arrest should be made... this isnt that tough to grasp... like seriously..
you have to have evidence to arrest someone...
what evidence is there?
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There are no witnesses as to who STARTED the fight.
There are lots of people that saw ZImm losing the fight, once it was underway.
No person except the dead teenager and the live dude with multiple violence charges witnessed it.
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There are no witnesses as to who STARTED the fight.
There are lots of people that saw ZImm losing the fight, once it was underway.
No person except the dead teenager and the live dude with multiple violence charges witnessed it.
You would make the government a great propagandizer.
Guess what - there is evidence to support most of Zimms story you have nothing to prove it wrong, your only argument is "Oh he has a violence charge in his record! Clearly he's guilty, cause a completely unrelated incident that happened years ago clearly proves what went down that night, without a doubt, clears it all up" LOL. Almost as great as your "Hes drunk cause he's on his way home from target, and the blood coming from his head must be from thinning effect of alcohol.
THE ORACLE HAS SPOKEN! TRAILER WISDOM IS NEVER WRONG!
As of right now, unless new evidence comes out, you sir, are the weakest link.
Goodbye.
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You would make the government a great propagandizer.
Guess what - there is evidence to support most of Zimms story you have nothing to prove it wrong, your only argument is "Oh he has a violence charge in his record! Clearly he's guilty, cause a completely unrelated incident that happened years ago clearly proves what went down that night, without a doubt, clears it all up" LOL. Almost as great as your "Hes drunk cause he's on his way home from target, and the blood coming from his head must be from thinning effect of alcohol.
THE ORACLE HAS SPOKEN! TRAILER WISDOM IS NEVER WRONG!
As of right now, unless new evidence comes out, you sir, are the weakest link.
Goodbye.
you want to make it about the entire sequence - but it's about who started the fight.
NO WITNESSES to this.
You would rather talk about how he was losing the fight, etc. No witnesses to who started the fight - only a 911 tape that shows zimm went two blocks, calling the kid a burglar and asshole, and that trayvon had run away'.
trailer prediction - zimmerman goeth to jail. No witnesses to who started the fight, but the preponderance of evidence will lead jury to believe he was the agressor in the 3 minutes before the fight, so it's a greater likelihood he started it.
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you want to make it about the entire sequence - but it's about who started the fight.
NO WITNESSES to this.
You would rather talk about how he was losing the fight, etc. No witnesses to who started the fight - only a 911 tape that shows zimm went two blocks, calling the kid a burglar and asshole, and that trayvon had run away'.
trailer prediction - zimmerman goeth to jail. No witnesses to who started the fight, but the preponderance of evidence will lead jury to believe he was the agressor in the 3 minutes before the fight, so it's a greater likelihood he started it.
Still no evidence eh?
look everyone its supposition rob
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personally, i trust the word of an investigator who had all the facts...
over the choice of a police chief (an admin more than a detective, no doubt) who drives in on a sunday night to reverse course of the invetigator.
Then, he resigns over it. Really, it looks pretty shitty. You don't resign when you make a good call. You resign when you fck up.
Gentlemen, this has been a very entertainiming thread so far. I have heard that part of the reason Zimmerman was not charged that night is because of some well connected relatives within the justice system. It's really too bad that this has become the sensation it has. had he been arrested the night of the incident, this would not have blown up into the grand media distraction it has become, ...all the while the public is distracted by this, the "powers that be" are making serious moves behind the scenes to the detriment of all Americans.
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So what happened to the call for waiting for the trial?
I guess the same people defending Zimmerman are EXACTLY like the same calling for his head without evidence.
:-\
In total agreement.
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The state has admitted it can't contradict Zimmerman's side of the story...I don't see how they're going to get a conviction under those circumstances. Do I think Zimmerman's responsible for the young man's death? Yes...he had no business going on "patrol" with a gun, no business exiting the vehicle and the basis for his suspicions about Martin's actions appear to be based on his race and style of dress. From a philosphical and moral POV there's no doubt in my mind that he's culpable. However...this is a criminal proceeding. Philosphy and right and wrong are not the issue here...the letter of the law and the State's ability to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt are the issues.
Zimmerman is going to walk....
it's funny, I agree with everything you said... up until that last statement.
I think for all the above reasons that you mentioned, we will see a guilty verdict.
The actual charge remains to be seen. I'm guessing someting comparable to negligent homicide, manslaughter, or if all else fails, "being responsible for the death based upon a preponderance of evidence", but there is no doubt in my mind, given all the facts that have thus far come to light, that a jury will return a conviction.
It will be interesting to see what actual evidence gets presented in the court room.
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He was the neighborhood watch captain, but the watch rules specifically say one cannot carry a gun when on duty.
So he wasn't a neighborhood watch captain when he chased a kid two blocks in the dark with a gun. He was just some dickhead on a sunday afternoon, getting his rocks off by playing pretend police and terrifying some kid whose only crime was looking like a burglar.
zimm is fucked. the more i think about it.... i didn't know he told the 911 operator that trayvon RAN. This means there is ZERO PROOF that trayvon started it. in fact, jurors will look at a scared minor being chased 2 blocks by a fat man with a gun and probably believe he acted in self defense IF he even swung first. I mean, if you're walking your dog and a fat man with a gun chases u 2 blocks, you CAN punch him in the face once he reaches you because you're already in fear of your life and you're standing your ground.
To be honest, trayvon probably could have pulled a gun and shot zimmerman and it would have been legal. Cause he had already fled 2 blocks from the angry man with a gun throwing profanities his way.
In 100% agreement with you here.
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This country has become everything they hated and fought against.
Why is it that whenever I've pointed that out that in the past, it was considered "Anti-American", but when someone else says it, it is viewed as an accurate analysis of the situation? ???
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1. Zimmerman had every right to carry his firearm.
Having the right to carry his firearm does not absolve him from being accountable for the discharge of that firearm. You want to carry? fine. The 2nd amendment states you have the right to bear arms. However, when you choose to discharge your firearm into the chest of an unarmed child, ...causing his death, you had better be prepared to be accountable.
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He's saying its not evidence of who started the fight.
Its a way to misdirect away from the fact that Zimmerman has proof of part of his story.Technically he's correct, but really it doesnt help the prosecutions stance at all.
At this point all theyre trying to do is discredit the supporting evidence Zimmerman has by saying "Well it still doesnt prove who started it".
Zimmerman has proof of what exactly?
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Having the right to carry his firearm does not absolve him from being accountable for the discharge of that firearm. You want to carry? fine. The 2nd amendment states you have the right to bear arms. However, when you choose to discharge your firearm into the chest of an unarmed child, ...causing his death, you had better be prepared to be accountable.
That is not the point we were discussing.
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That is not the point we were discussing.
Why did you present it as point #1 then if you didn't want it discussed?
You put it forth in your argument, I'm simply saying that when a child comes up dead, his right to carry is far less relevant if at all, than his obligation to be accountable for his choices.
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Why did you present it as point #1 then if you didn't want it discussed?
You put it forth in your argument, I'm simply saying that when a child comes up dead, his right to carry is far less relevant if at all, than his obligation to be accountable for his choices.
Re-read the post it was in response to. Try to follow along.
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There are no witnesses as to who STARTED the fight.
There are lots of people that saw ZImm losing the fight, once it was underway.
No person except the dead teenager and the live dude with multiple violence charges witnessed it.
You just made the case for a not guilty verdict.
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You just made the case for a not guilty verdict.
::)
You would think that this fucking idiot would read up on "Reasonable Doubt" since he has very strong opinions on what happened in the Zimmerman case and has 145,000 posts on the topic.
Another leftist windbag with an overbearing point of view on issues that he knows nothing about?
Perish the thought.
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Whats with all of the "Ebonics" as of late? Did Trayvon bring this out all of a sudden?
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Cue break dancing and fist bump while typing.
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::)
You would think that this fucking idiot would read up on "Reasonable Doubt" since he has very strong opinions on what happened in the Zimmerman case and has 145,000 posts on the topic.
Another leftist windbag with an overbearing point of view on issues that he knows nothing about?
Perish the thought.
Yeah, he thinks his opinion, with no evidence; trumps the defendants story that he cannot disprove.
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you have to have evidence to arrest someone...
what evidence is there?
Dead Person...no one to back up self defense at the time of the event
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You just made the case for a not guilty verdict.
there's a dead body. zimm caused it. zimm chansed him 2 blocks and even told 911 operator that the kid ran from him.
zimm's going to prison. Trayvon was an unarmed kid who RAN TWO BLOCKS to get away from him.
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Dead Person...no one to back up self defense at the time of the event
Lack of evidence is not evidence.
A person is considered INNOCENT first not guilty, so what evidence do you have that he committed a crime?
by this logic if someone walked up on trayvons dead body and called the police you could arrest them, b/c how are you to know they arent the one who killed him and just said they walked up on him?
YOU NEED EVIDENCE!!!
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Lack of evidence is not evidence.
A person is considered INNOCENT first not guilty, so what evidence do you have that he committed a crime?
by this logic if someone walked up on trayvons dead body and called the police you could arrest them, b/c how are you to know they arent the one who killed him and just said they walked up on him?
YOU NEED EVIDENCE!!!
Exactly.
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Another Misleading Edit Costs Another NBC News Employee Her Job
TV Newser ^ | May 2, 2012
Posted on May 2, 2012 7:27:33 PM EDT by Free ThinkerNY
Lilia Luciano, a Miami-based NBC News correspondent, is no longer working for the network, TVNewser has learned.
Luciano last reported for NBC News March 31. Until that point, she had been reporting mainly on the Trayvon Martin story.
Sources tell TVNewser Luciano’s dismissal came after an investigation which also led to the firing of a seasoned NBC News producer over a similar, misleading edit.
In a story for the “Today” show on March 20, Luciano used part of the George Zimmerman 911 call in which an entire phrase (italicized below) was taken from a later part of the conversation:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something. He’s got his hand in his waistband. And he’s a black male. Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah. Dispatcher: Okay, we don’t need you to do that.
(Excerpt) Read more at mediabistro.com ...
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Zimm's myspace page may be used against him in trials. disparaged mexicans and shows history of racial prejudice.
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Zimm's myspace page may be used against him in trials. disparaged mexicans and shows history of racial prejudice.
I see supposition rob is back...
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I see supposition rob is back...
his own lawyers said the myspace page is going to hurt him in court, and they suspect it will be used.
I "suppose" i believe them.
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his own lawyers said the myspace page is going to hurt him in court, and they suspect it will be used.
I "suppose" i believe them.
He is Latino himself no?
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his own lawyers said the myspace page is going to hurt him in court, and they suspect it will be used.
I "suppose" i believe them.
still no evidence supposition rob?
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Zimm's myspace page may be used against him in trials. disparaged mexicans and shows history of racial prejudice.
This could hurt him IF they can find evidence that he had intent to kill Trayvon, and not simply intent to keep eyes on him until police arrived.
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This could hurt him IF they can find evidence that he had intent to kill Trayvon, and not simply intent to keep eyes on him until police arrived.
read the story on huffPo.
zimm's lawyers say it may be used in trial against him, and it may be damaging. it shows some racial bias, some negative things about law enforcement.
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still no evidence?
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still no evidence?
i can't prove aliens didn't shoot trayvon either.
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i can't prove aliens didn't shoot trayvon either.
good thing that isnt something they will be debating in the trial then...
still no evidence?
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good thing that isnt something they will be debating in the trial then...
still no evidence?
I dont know what world you live in...
You can't walk outside, shoot a guys head off, and say "you can't prove he didn't start it".
I dont know what you want to argue about here. You're saying you can? I can follow a MFer down an alley and ace him - and as long as the alley was dark and nobody saw, it's just the word of me against a dead man.
Of course, when the jury hears me admit the kid I shot in the alley ran from me, i pursued him for 2 blocks, and I mistook him for the "asshole" that stole my bike....
Well, good luck there zimmerman.
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Source: Zimmerman says Trayvon circled his SUV, frightened him
Orlando Sentinel ^ | 3May 2012 | Rene Stutzman
Posted on May 3, 2012 6:46:07 PM EDT by ironman
George Zimmerman told investigators that while he was on the phone with a Sanford police dispatcher reporting Trayvon Martin as suspicious, the teenager was circling his vehicle on foot, a source familiar with the investigation told the Orlando Sentinel.
The source said Zimmerman's account of events hasn't changed in his several statements to police — in which he said he was so unnerved by the teen's behavior that he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation. However, he never mentioned any of that while talking to the dispatcher.
The details revealed by the source provide new insight into what Zimmerman said happened in the earliest moments of his contact with Trayvon. And they may reveal the inconsistencies alluded to by prosecutors in the case.
One of those inconsistencies: Zimmerman told police Trayvon had his hand over Zimmerman's mouth during their fight on the night he shot Trayvon.
The Sentinel's source confirmed that Zimmerman's statements include that allegation. But authorities do not believe that happened, the source told the Sentinel, because on one 911 call, someone can be heard screaming for help. If it were Zimmerman, as he claims, his cries were not muffled, the source said.
Zimmerman also told police, the source told the Sentinel, that while the two were on the ground, Trayvon reached for Zimmerman's gun, and the two struggled over it.
(Excerpt) Read more at articles.orlandosentinel .com ...
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Wow, zimm actually told police trayvon had his hand over his mouth. We heard the 911 calls as he screamed for help. No muffling.
Another lie from zimmerman?
I don't think we know shit about what's in zimm's statement. If it has more HUGE inconsistencies like this, I think the gebtiggers who claimed this LEO disrespecting, wife-beating, obama-voting zimmy as "winning" are going to get really quiet quickly.
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Wow, zimm actually told police trayvon had his hand over his mouth. We heard the 911 calls as he screamed for help. No muffling.
Another lie from zimmerman?
I don't think we know shit about what's in zimm's statement. If it has more HUGE inconsistencies like this, I think the gebtiggers who claimed this LEO disrespecting, wife-beating, obama-voting zimmy as "winning" are going to get really quiet quickly.
Who the fuck claimed he was "winning"?
Pretty sure most of us were simply claiming their wasnt enough evidence to prove his story wrong, and there still isnt. Its all "circumstantial evidence", as they call it.
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I dont know what world you live in...
You can't walk outside, shoot a guys head off, and say "you can't prove he didn't start it".
I dont know what you want to argue about here. You're saying you can? I can follow a MFer down an alley and ace him - and as long as the alley was dark and nobody saw, it's just the word of me against a dead man.
Of course, when the jury hears me admit the kid I shot in the alley ran from me, i pursued him for 2 blocks, and I mistook him for the "asshole" that stole my bike....
Well, good luck there zimmerman.
supposition rob everybody!!!
so still no evidence?
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Who the fuck claimed he was "winning"?
Pretty sure most of us were simply claiming their wasnt enough evidence to prove his story wrong, and there still isnt. Its all "circumstantial evidence", as they call it.
33338a has written zimmerman #winning quite a few times.
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33338a has written zimmerman #winning quite a few times.
Yeah, to troll all you retards calling for his head with no evidence.
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Yeah, to troll all you retards calling for his head with no evidence.
the head is evidence of him losing the fight.
The head doesn't show who started the fight ;)
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All of you people are arguing for nothing. Zimmerman is going to plead out for a lesser charge and that will be the end of it. No lawyer is going to tell him to go to trial with this shit on self defense because even they know that he would lose big time.
The fact is that he shot and killed an unarmed man who committed no crime and was walking down a sidewalk and once the police officers at the scene testify, it will pretty much be over for Zimmerman before it ever got started because they wanted to charge him with murder based on what he told them had it not been for the police chief..
He'll plead out and do a stint of time and that will be the end of this shit and he had better hope no one in prison tries to take his cookies.
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the head is evidence of him losing the fight.
The head doesn't show who started the fight ;)
Your attempts at trolling are fail, lol. You still have no evidence.
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All of you people are arguing for nothing. Zimmerman is going to plead out for a lesser charge and that will be the end of it. No lawyer is going to tell him to go to trial with this shit on self defense because even they know that he would lose big time.
The fact is that he shot and killed an unarmed man who committed no crime and was walking down a sidewalk and once the police officers at the scene testify, it will pretty much be over for Zimmerman before it ever got started because they wanted to charge him with murder based on what he told them had it not been for the police chief..
He'll plead out and do a stint of time and that will be the end of this shit and he had better hope no one in prison tries to take his cookies.
is this another one of those posts with no research based solely on opinion vince?
you know like the obama posts and the air soft into real guns posts?
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there is evidence zimm pursued him - his own words.
there is eveidence he profiled him for a burglet - his own words.
there is evidence trayvon fled - zim's own words
there is evidence zimm traveled 2 blocks from his vehicle to where the shooting happened.
there also appears to be 2 statements that don't match the evidence and look like exaggerations on GZ's part.
If he lied to police in that interview, he's fcked. Period. Cause they'll discredit his statement about who started it. He said his mouth was coverd, and the 911 tapes show his ass was quite loud. He hammed up the "trayvon circled my car twice" but the 911 call shows that didn't happen.
he's fucked, plain and simple. He should hope to plead. A jury will punish his bloodthirsty ass.
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I see, so youre going to be selective in what words of zimmermans you take as truth and what words you dont?
supposition rob everyone!!!
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NBC Fires Miami-Based Correspondent for Zimmerman 911 Edit [Omitted Zim's Fear Trayvon was Armed!]
sfltv.com ^ | 5/3/12
Posted on May 5, 2012 8:17:37 AM EDT by SoFloFreeper
Lilia Luciano, an NBC News correspondent based in Miami (more like WTVJ studios in Miramar) has been fired by the network for using an edited version of George Zimmerman’s 911 call on the Today show on March 20. In her story the edit omitted the underlined phrase below:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something. He’s got his hand in his waistband. And he’s a black male. Dispatcher: Are you following him?
(Excerpt) Read more at sfltv.com ...
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I see, so youre going to be selective in what words of zimmermans you take as truth and what words you dont?
supposition rob everyone!!!
if there's a dead unarmed kid by his hand...
and he lied about anything... (or several things)
his ass is going to prison.
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if there's a dead unarmed kid by his hand...
and he lied about anything... (or several things)
his ass is going to prison.
maybe...
so still no evidence?
supposition rob ladies and gentlemen!!!
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maybe...
so still no evidence?
supposition rob ladies and gentlemen!!!
the evidence is the dead body and zimm's statements.
if he lied about the threat (kid circling) and more importantly, he lied about the conflict "he had hand over my mouth and said you die tonight" (when clearly the 911 tape picked up no trayvon voice and an unmuffled zimmerman voice)...
Then his credibility is shot. And he killed a kid and doesn't have a credible story for why he did it. I dont know what world you're in, where you can shoot a MFer and change your story to police over and over about why you did it lol...
but if i'm on that jury, and some punk with a gun kills a kid and lies over and over about it, night-night snookums.
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the evidence is the dead body and zimm's statements.
if he lied about the threat (kid circling) and more importantly, he lied about the conflict "he had hand over my mouth and said you die tonight" (when clearly the 911 tape picked up no trayvon voice and an unmuffled zimmerman voice)...
Then his credibility is shot. And he killed a kid and doesn't have a credible story for why he did it. I dont know what world you're in, where you can shoot a MFer and change your story to police over and over about why you did it lol...
but if i'm on that jury, and some punk with a gun kills a kid and lies over and over about it, night-night snookums.
LMFAO so his hand was over his mouth the entire time? didnt allow him to breath or anything?
havent heard trayvon said "you die tonight" can you link me?
did he yell it or did he say it?
the guy was in an upstairs bedroom while they were in the front yard...
again Supposition rob everyone!!!
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havent heard trayvon said "you die tonight" can you link me?
yep yep -
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trayvon+you+die+tonight+zimmerman
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All of you people are arguing for nothing. Zimmerman is going to plead out for a lesser charge and that will be the end of it. No lawyer is going to tell him to go to trial with this shit on self defense because even they know that he would lose big time.
The fact is that he shot and killed an unarmed man (minor correction: child) who committed no crime and was walking down a sidewalk and once the police officers at the scene testify, it will pretty much be over for Zimmerman before it ever got started because they wanted to charge him with murder based on what he told them had it not been for the police chief..
He'll plead out and do a stint of time and that will be the end of this shit and he had better hope no one in prison tries to take his cookies.
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yep yep -
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trayvon+you+die+tonight+zimmerman
why did you only respond to one aspect of my post?
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This thread is dead.
240 is troll with no evidence to prove Zimmerman wrong.
It will keep going as long as we let it.
Ignore him.
I have spoken!
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Minor correction is right, the only thing chidlike about trayvon were his thinking and actions
apparently this was a 6'2" 17 year old young man, maybe you got misled like the rest of the sheep around here b/c the media was feeding you 5 year old photos.
The real trayvon...
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This thread is dead.
240 is troll with no evidence to prove Zimmerman wrong.
It will keep going as long as we let it.
Ignore him.
I have spoken!
LMAO hahaha
Indeed, its funny though to see him spin like a top trying to validate his trolling.
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Minor correction is right, the only thing chidlike about trayvon were his thinking and actions
apparently this was a 6'2" 17 year old young man, maybe you got misled like the rest of the sheep around here b/c the media was feeding you 5 year old photos.
The real trayvon...
what's your point ?
is being 6' 2" and 17 years old a crime punishable by death in Florida ?
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Minor correction is right, the only thing chidlike about trayvon were his thinking and actions
apparently this was a 6'2" 17 year old young man, maybe you got misled like the rest of the sheep around here b/c the media was feeding you 5 year old photos.
The real trayvon...
At the age of 14, one of my cousins stood well over 6'2", and weighed in at well over 200 lbs. It made him no less a child in my eyes, or that of the law. Trayvon wasn't even old enough to drink in his state, ...wasn't even old enough to be in the military, ...and we know how those cold-blooded bastards who like to sent men off to die to defend their right to rape & pillage this planet like their meat shields young. It's not size that makes you a man.
what's your point ?
is being 6' 2" and 17 years old a crime punishable by death in Florida ?
Apparently it is, ...when the 6'2" 17 year old is Black, and runs into a racist, with a conceal carry permit, a vigilante complex, and serious anger mgmt issues. :-\
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what's your point ?
is being 6' 2" and 17 years old a crime punishable by death in Florida ?
not at all and I never said it was, did I?
is keeping an eye on someone and defending ones self a crime?
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not at all and I never said it was, did I?
is keeping an eye on someone and defending ones self a crime?
there is no witness as to who started the fight.
plenty of witnesses as to who followed who thru the yards with a gun - and who ran unarmed.
I'm not sure you can start a fight or create a fight - and then cry self-defense lol.
and for the 99th time - you can just drag a fcker into an alley and shoot his head off because "well, there was no witnesses!"
Juries do look at what happens before a shoot and they'll use that to make their call. You know that, right?
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At the age of 14, one of my cousins stood well over 6'2", and weighed in at well over 200 lbs. It made him no less a child in my eyes, or that of the law. Trayvon wasn't even old enough to drink in his state, ...wasn't even old enough to be in the military, ...and we know how those cold-blooded bastards who like to sent men off to die to defend their right to rape & pillage this planet like their meat shields young. It's not size that makes you a man.
Apparently it is, ...when the 6'2" 17 year old is Black, and runs into a racist, with a conceal carry permit, a vigilante complex, and serious anger mgmt issues. :-\
LMFAO in a fight, size matters....
like the fight that he got into with the shorter, smaller zimmerman...
you would have everyone believe that this young man is an upstanding member of the community. You should do some research as you probably only know what youve been feed by MSNBC and CNN...
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there is no witness as to who started the fight.
plenty of witnesses as to who followed who thru the yards with a gun - and who ran unarmed.
I'm not sure you can start a fight or create a fight - and then cry self-defense lol.
and for the 99th time - you can just drag a fcker into an alley and shoot his head off because "well, there was no witnesses!"
Juries do look at what happens before a shoot and they'll use that to make their call. You know that, right?
you do know that in a criminal case the burden of guilt is beyond a reasonable doubt, right?
you have no proof that he started the fight, did he put himself in the situation to be confronted or cause a confrontation? maybe BUT THEN AGAIN YOU HAVE NO PROOF!!!
simply asking someone a question isnt starting a fight, you do know that right?
No proof, zimmerman walks!!!
you got proof?
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LMFAO in a fight, size matters....
like the fight that he got into with the shorter, smaller zimmerman...
you would have everyone believe that this young man is an upstanding member of the community. You should do some research as you probably only know what youve been feed by MSNBC and CNN...
tony, i dont give a crap if trayvon was an ax murderer. You can't just shoot people and say "no witnesses, you can't prove..."
He was fleeing - zimm admits it.
Zimm was pursuing - he went from the truck to the shooting spot and shot in about 3 minutes.
and the size isn't that much different - trayvon was a few inches taller but skinny as fck. ZImm was 8 years older - oh and he was packing a gun.
but if you truly believe i can chase a man in an alley and shoot him and walk free because the govt can't prove what happened in that alley - and we know i chased that fcker into that allwy - and you believe a jury won't convict... then I dont know what we're arguing about here :)
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simply asking someone a question isnt starting a fight, you do know that right?
chasing a kid 2 blocks in the dark with a gun, calling him an asshole burglar, getting him alone in the dark then 'asking him a question' then shooting him.
Yeah, good luck there. I still think the actual moment he shot, he believed his life was in danger and he shot to defend himself - a legal shoot. But because trayvon also probably feared for his life (running two blocks from a grown man with a gun chasing you will do that) and because the sanford PD admit zimm claimed 2 things the 911 calls disputed (he lied/exaggerated)...
he's going to jail for murder.
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I'm not sure you can start a fight or create a fight - and then cry self-defense lol.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/rotflmao.gif)
Say's who? Zimmerman is doing exactly that.
I don't know whether he's taking his lead from every day examples in Palestine, Gaza and the West Bank (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/shrug.gif)
Pssst{whispering} Yup 240, ...I did indeed touch the third rail. lol.
Clearly it can be done, and is being done every single day.
The question is, will a Florida jury allow these kinds of self-defense claims?
Will the American people allow these kinds of self defense claims?
Will the world continue to allow these kinds of self-defense claims?
Or will his lawyer make a Hail Mary play by arguing "The Bush Doctrine?"
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it may not even come down to the "did he or didn't he" on the self-defense shooting.
The jury may look at the laundry liest of lies, or "inconsistencies", as Zimmerman attempted to sell trayvon as a scary stalker.
He probably forgot his 911 call details in the heat of the moment.
I predict the 911 tapes put him in such hot water that he's begging to plead out.
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it may not even come down to the "did he or didn't he" on the self-defense shooting.
The jury may look at the laundry liest of lies, or "inconsistencies", as Zimmerman attempted to sell trayvon as a scary stalker.
He probably forgot his 911 call details in the heat of the moment.
I predict the 911 tapes put him in such hot water that he's begging to plead out.
This is dead, youve said the same thing a million times with no evidence to back any of it up. No one cares anymore.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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chasing a kid 2 blocks in the dark with a gun, calling him an asshole burglar, getting him alone in the dark then 'asking him a question' then shooting him.
Yeah, good luck there. I still think the actual moment he shot, he believed his life was in danger and he shot to defend himself - a legal shoot. But because trayvon also probably feared for his life (running two blocks from a grown man with a gun chasing you will do that) and because the sanford PD admit zimm claimed 2 things the 911 calls disputed (he lied/exaggerated)...
he's going to jail for murder.
the problem you have 240 is you believe you know his intent.
keeping an eye on someone, asking someone a question...after trayvon initiated contact PER HIS GIRLFRIEND isnt illegal.
what proof that he told any lies?
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the 911 tapes provide the proof.
i have a great bullshit detector. i called hermann cain. i'll be right on this one too. once the evidence comes out, and we hear zimm's statement, its' going to be filled with way more than these first two inconsistencies that the sanford PD already admits (circling car and TM covering his mouth, as well as TM saying you die tonight).
of course, tony, you didn't know about zimm's claim the kid said "you die tonight" while muffling his mouth - evern though the 911 recordings show zimm very clearly yelling while TM's voice never appears.
I think the more you read about the story, the more you look at his statements - one thing becomes clear - zimm was making shit up as he went during that post-shooting interview, to 'sell' the reason why he feared for his life. Exaggerating shit keeps you out of jail - unless the 911 tapes contradict you - in which case it's jail time
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the 911 tapes provide the proof.
i have a great bullshit detector. i called hermann cain. i'll be right on this one too. once the evidence comes out, and we hear zimm's statement, its' going to be filled with way more than these first two inconsistencies that the sanford PD already admits (circling car and TM covering his mouth, as well as TM saying you die tonight).
of course, tony, you didn't know about zimm's claim the kid said "you die tonight" while muffling his mouth - evern though the 911 recordings show zimm very clearly yelling while TM's voice never appears.
I think the more you read about the story, the more you look at his statements - one thing becomes clear - zimm was making shit up as he went during that post-shooting interview, to 'sell' the reason why he feared for his life. Exaggerating shit keeps you out of jail - unless the 911 tapes contradict you - in which case it's jail time
ahhh so you have a biased opinion and no proof?
so nothings changed?
LMFAO you think if were wrestling you could keep me from yelling out?
putting his hand over his face isnt going to keep him from yelling out the entire time LMFAO
you thought that beating his head against the concrete "for a min" meant for a straight min trayvon is bouncing his head of the concrete
now this...
yet another moron who has never been in a physical altercation in his life talking about something he has no idea of.
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i posted the link. may 3. orlando sentinel. sanford PD.
zimm 2 contracticions already.
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i posted the link. may 3. orlando sentinel. sanford PD.
zimm 2 contracticions already.
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i posted the link. may 3. orlando sentinel. sanford PD.
zimm 2 contracticions already.
ok then it should be real easy to recap then.
What lies did he tell and what proof of these lies do you have?
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http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/06/update-17-trayvon-martin-shooting-trademarked-exploitation-tour-goes-international-tracy-and-sybrina-jet-to-london-england
Too long to post, but tons of info on the media propaganda. Here you go 180.
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Too long to post, but tons of info on the media propaganda. Here you go 180.
Tell me, were you this callous when the Goldmans tried to honour the memory of their slain son?
What you and this cynical blogger mockingly call propaganda & exploitation, some may consider it as not wanting the murder of their son to be just another senseless murder.
As for his biological mother trademarking his name, I am in 100% support of that decision.
Owning the copyright infact PREVENTS the very callous exploitation & media circus of which you speak, and it was done on advice of counsel. As a lawyer, I'm surprised you didn't spot both the merits & wisdom of that move right from the start. {pssst: You're slipping ;) }
You know there is a whole additional tragedy playing out right now. As people like you are transfixed with heresay, none of this matters. This is the beginning of the 1995 "The Trial of The Century" rehashed. Nothing matters except what comes out in the courtroom. We can speculate & predict all we want, ...but all that matters is what comes out in the courtroom. And in the meantime, while you're all focused on this, the three-card monte dealer is making moves behind the scenes, making preparations to put your butts on permanent lockdown, ...and you all want to argue amongst yourselves? Wow!!! :o
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http://theconservativetreehouse.com
::)
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http://theconservativetreehouse.com
::)
Are you going to try to burn down Korea Town when Zimm walks?
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Are you going to try to burn down Korea Town when Zimm walks?
I live close to K-town...But were talking about ME.. Im way too cool for that..
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I live close to K-town...But were talking about ME.. Im way too cool for that..
Ok, go burn down Hollywood instead and I will cheer you on.
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Ok, go burn down Hollywood instead and I will cheer you on.
I live Downtown.. I only coach in Hollywood
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http://theconservativetreehouse.com
::)
And people wonder why so many conservatives are disillusioned with the Republicans these days.
Imagine that... the POTUS calling to congratulate a newly elected head of state, and extending a cordial invitation to attend a summit he has never attended before. That right there must be proof positive that Obama is a socialist. ::)
What the heck did they expect? ...that the POTUS would immediately get on the phone and call all the other G8 leaders to co-ordinate his marginalization with PR, and simultaneous press conferences denouncing the very democratic election results? Is that what they expected? Maybe he didn't get the call from AIPAC Netanyahu or the Knesset telling him what to do ::)
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Coaching anything is just creepy.
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Coaching anything is just creepy.
You never played a sport in your life
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You never played a sport in your life
I swam and ran track as well as Cross-Country but I didn`t require a coach of any sort to do those things. What would be the purpose anyways?
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Coaching anything is just creepy.
Mal coaches football no?
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Mal coaches football no?
ROFLMAO!
That picture cracks me up every single time. There really is something about "Coaching" that is just so odd. Even the Professional "Coaches". They get all red-faced and angry and where Coach clothes and pretend they actually matter. They follow so many silly memes its ridiculous.
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Mal coaches football no?
More like this
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I swam and ran track as well as Cross-Country but I didn`t require a coach of any sort to do those things. What would be the purpose anyways?
Really.. What were your events?
And thanks input re: coaches...different people...different opinions.
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More like this
Was busting your chops - relax chief.
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Really.. What were your events?
And thanks input re: coaches...different people...different opinions.
I was all-american hammer thrower, was best in the county in the discus, in HS and give most of the credit to the coach I had. Definately helped me a ton w technique etc and I felt I had a big advantage over others I competed against. Cant disagree w you at all on this.
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Really.. What were your events?
And thanks input re: coaches...different people...different opinions.
100 m Breast Stroke
200 Medley
50 m Free
100 m Free
and fill in where needed.
Long Distance 5 k
2 miles
1 mile
400 sprint
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100 m Breast Stroke
200 Medley
50 m Free
100 m Free
and fill in where needed.
Long Distance 5 k
2 miles
1 mile
400 sprint
And you didnt need a coach for the 400m sprint?
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Are we really saying coaching isn't needed?
That's dumb.
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And you didnt need a coach for the 400m sprint?
I did, but we didn`t exactly get a long and he threatened to fight me over something I said to his daughter.
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I did, but we didn`t exactly get a long and he threatened to fight me over something I said to his daughter.
What did you say to his daughter?
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Mal, check your PMs
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What did you say to his daughter?
Called her a Pig in the Mist.
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Mal, check your PMs
MAL - don't fall for it!!!
Just get regular silver/gold eagles, canadian maples, austrian phil harmonics, SA kugarands, or some legit metals.
Also - fuck those gas caps - dude is a fraudster who was pushing those things!
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MAL - don't fall for it!!!
Just get regular silver/gold eagles, canadian maples, austrian phil harmonics, SA kugarands, or some legit metals.
Also - fuck those gas caps - dude is a fraudster who was pushing those things!
Is he selling gold?
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I dont sell anything.
And calling her a pig was wrong..unless she was fat
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I dont sell anything.
And calling her a pig was wrong..unless she was fat
Thank You Mal.
I don't sell gold either. I simply exchange my increasingly worth-less paper currency for gold.
Calling me a fraudster was also wrong. I have never in my life defrauded anyone.
I've even been known to deter people from buying something if I felt such a purchase was inappropriate,
...even in instances where I potentially stood to profit financially.
I guess those who lack ethics & integrity will never understand or recognize those qualities in others.