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Author Topic: Natural Al's DC training Journal  (Read 89201 times)
natural al
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2007, 05:36:45 PM »

you're doing well al. keep it up.

i think alexx has a point though. it's difficult to really see the effectiveness w/o photos.

not saying you should post, just making the point.

maybe, when you provide your weight you can mention your body fat or something. dunno.

i disagree with your stance on 'thickening' and 'widening', etc. it just doesn't make sense to me.
imo, if you develop your lats, for example, they will be thicker and wider.




the way the program is set up you do one movement specifically for thickness and one for width.  Could you get by doing strictly thickness movements?  Probably but I don't see the problem with using a movement to target widening the lats and another for thickening up the back.  Right now my 3 width movements are Parrellel grip pulldowns, underhand grip pulldowns and a hammer pulldown machine.  Thickness moves are rack deads, BB rows and hammer rows.  

I'm almost at the limit of what I can do on at least one width movement so I'm gonna try a new one, it's kinda like the old giorando pull ups if anyone knows what they are-they're not exactly the same but that's how someone described them over at IM.  I might work in rack chins...I have not made up my mind on those yet.
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« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2007, 11:03:26 AM »

good day today.  I change one thing around from the traditional 3 way DC split.  Usually DC will have you do arms and then do back.  Well, my grip f'n sucks so there is no way in hell I could do back after doing bi's and forearms.  I tried and it just did not work. 

back width-underhand pulldowns-205*16RP with a 20 second static and 60 second stretch

Thickness-Barbell Row:  250*4
                                 185*13

Bi's-Cable Curl-150*17 with a 20 second static and a 60 second stretch.

Forearms-Hammer Curls-35*28 with my right arm and 35*31 with my left

I did my usual 20 minutes of cardio afterwards, no problem breathing at all, yesturday was a fluke.
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« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2007, 01:22:43 PM »

good day today.  I change one thing around from the traditional 3 way DC split.  Usually DC will have you do arms and then do back.  Well, my grip f'n sucks so there is no way in hell I could do back after doing bi's and forearms.  I tried and it just did not work. 

back width-underhand pulldowns-205*16RP with a 20 second static and 60 second stretch

Thickness-Barbell Row:  250*4
                                 185*13

Bi's-Cable Curl-150*17 with a 20 second static and a 60 second stretch.

Forearms-Hammer Curls-35*28 with my right arm and 35*31 with my left

I did my usual 20 minutes of cardio afterwards, no problem breathing at all, yesturday was a fluke.

Since wen did DC have u doign arms (bis) before back??

Thought it was chest,shoulders,tris (shouldnt effect back work),back width,back thickness.
Other day....BIS forearms,calvs,hammys, quads.

davie
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natural al
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« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2007, 02:07:07 PM »

Since wen did DC have u doign arms (bis) before back??

Thought it was chest,shoulders,tris (shouldnt effect back work),back width,back thickness.
Other day....BIS forearms,calvs,hammys, quads.

davie

it's something I feel I have to do, no it's not "DC's method" but it works for me, I screwed my wrists up wrastlin and my grip sucks. If you wanna stick with the routine 100% as laid out it should be bi's, forearms, width and then thickness.  I just don't think my grip could handle that.
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2007, 05:04:32 AM »

If you wanna stick with the routine 100% as laid out it should be bi's, forearms, width and then thickness. 

I thot as i sed that sticking with routine 100% meant:
chest shoulders tris back width back thivkness.
day2: bis forearms calves hammy quads.

bis and forearms arent on same day as back.

davie
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natural al
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2007, 08:46:27 AM »

I thot as i sed that sticking with routine 100% meant:
chest shoulders tris back width back thivkness.
day2: bis forearms calves hammy quads.

bis and forearms arent on same day as back.

davie

traditional split which is what your talking about should be:

A-chest, shoulders, tri's, back width, thickness

B-bi's, forearms, calfs, hams and quads.




I am using a more advanced split for the next few weeks to address a weak bodypart, this is what I'm following:

chest, shoulders, tri's
bi's, forearms, back thickness and width
calfs, hams and quads

I have a decent amount of experience with DC so I feel I can do the more advanced split for a little while but if I start to feel overtrained or burn out early I'm gonna go back to the traditional split.  It is recommended that you stick with the traditional split for as long as possible as that is usually the best case scenerio for most peoplle.

keep in mind, I'm trying to make up for alot of lost ground so I'm pushing everything pretty hard.  I have one "very" weak bodypart that needs attention in a very big way, it's come up a little but it's still behind.
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natural al
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2007, 11:38:57 AM »

did chest and shoulders today, I skipped tri's cause everything has been really hectic for the last 2 weeks and I've ended up doing the same movement 3 times in a row, I'll get back on track next week.

Chest-Inlines-275*14 with a 60 second deep stretch with the 45's
           widowmaker-95*7

Shoulders-Military Press-275*16, 20 partials with the 30lbs db's-1/2 rep lateral raises to total failure and a 60 second stretch

then I did the stairmill for my cardio for 20 minutes, 1st time ever and it was brutal.

again, all pressing movements are done on a smith.  Militaries have a limited range of motion due to an old wrastlin injury, I bring the bar to about nose level, if I go lower my shoulder hurts for days.  I'm pretty sure the rotator cuff is screwed up so I do what I can.
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2007, 11:47:25 AM »

did chest and shoulders today, I skipped tri's cause everything has been really hectic for the last 2 weeks and I've ended up doing the same movement 3 times in a row, I'll get back on track next week.

Chest-Inlines-275*14 with a 60 second deep stretch with the 45's
           widowmaker-95*7

Shoulders-Military Press-275*16, 20 partials with the 30lbs db's-1/2 rep lateral raises to total failure and a 60 second stretch

then I did the stairmill for my cardio for 20 minutes, 1st time ever and it was brutal.

again, all pressing movements are done on a smith.  Militaries have a limited range of motion due to an old wrastlin injury, I bring the bar to about nose level, if I go lower my shoulder hurts for days.  I'm pretty sure the rotator cuff is screwed up so I do what I can.

Might want to mention that you did those inclines on the smith machines or some people might think you are acturally strong. Wink
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2007, 12:21:24 PM »

Might want to mention that you did those inclines on the smith machines or some people might think you are acturally strong. Wink

it says "again, all pressing movements are done on a smith machine" in the original post.  275 isn't much anyway.  I've worked up to 305 for 12  on inclines a long time ago.  Like I said, I'm trying to make up for lost time, the weight will come.  I don't consider myself very strong in the big picture.
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natural al
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2007, 05:49:58 PM »

Just for those keeping track, next week should look like this:

Monday-calfs, hamstrings and quads

Tuesday-bi's, forearms, Back width and thickness

Wedsday-off, prolly lite cardio and maybe some ab work, depends on how my energy levels are.

Thursday-Chest, Shoulders and Tri'

Friday-calfs, hamstrings and Quads


still trying to get in the groove diet wise, I eat pretty well most of the time but I'd like to really look at things and make sure I'm doin what needs to be done at the table.
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« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2007, 11:09:52 AM »

don't want to sound negative because i think it's cool you're providing your log, but if dc recommends bis and forearms before back it's lost all credibility with me (not that it needs my approval).

the back muscles are some of the most powerful muscles of the body and should have fresh hooks (arms), imo, to attack them with the intensity they need.

on that note, i don't agree with the width and thickness crap either. that right there shows a complete misunderstanding of kinesiology, biology and physiology.

by width, i take it dc is referring to the lats. the lats are the muscles that give width obviously, but exercises that dc prescribe for 'thickness' ie rows, will work the lats very effectively thus creating 'width'.

i actually think heavy reverse grip rows are superior to pull-ups for lats because they allow greater overall tension, work more of the back musculature and are more efficient function wise.




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« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2007, 03:51:05 PM »

i agree with beast,,dc techniques are great -rest pausing and the stretching but the program sucks, IMO.

i asked at intense muscle why they had that type of a layout and they just said that the bigger muscles should go last.. they said after i do back i shouldnt have enough energy to do bis.. i do bis after back, and hams after quads, it doesnt make sence they way they do it.

i think the width and thickness, should be changed to vertical and horizontal pull
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natural al
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« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2007, 09:25:21 PM »

well everybody is entitled to thier opinion.  There are a couple of things that I look at in a program, first:  Do I think it will work and is it layed out in a way that makes sense to me?  Yes, I think DC works for what it is supposed to do.  It's supposed to make you big and strong, if you follow it you will get bigger and stronger-if you follow it meaning you do everything that is prescribed in terms of eating and training.  I think it makes sense, can you nitpic it?  Sure  there are little things that you can tear apart but I think in reality you can do that with pretty much any program.  I think it cuts through alot of BS.  For me the positives far outweigh the negatives.

If I keep progressing in poundages for my back movements maybe one day it will get to hard to train arms after back cause I'll be to worn out from my back work but that's not the case right now.  We'll see how it goes.  If I get up to a 500lbs rack dead for reps by the end of the year this whole program might change.

I hope that made sense as a response, it's been a long day.
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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2007, 11:59:01 PM »

well everybody is entitled to thier opinion.  There are a couple of things that I look at in a program, first:  Do I think it will work and is it layed out in a way that makes sense to me?  Yes, I think DC works for what it is supposed to do.  It's supposed to make you big and strong, if you follow it you will get bigger and stronger-if you follow it meaning you do everything that is prescribed in terms of eating and training.  I think it makes sense, can you nitpic it?  Sure  there are little things that you can tear apart but I think in reality you can do that with pretty much any program.  I think it cuts through alot of BS.  For me the positives far outweigh the negatives.

If I keep progressing in poundages for my back movements maybe one day it will get to hard to train arms after back cause I'll be to worn out from my back work but that's not the case right now.  We'll see how it goes.  If I get up to a 500lbs rack dead for reps by the end of the year this whole program might change.

I hope that made sense as a response, it's been a long day.

fair enough, but you haven't explained anything or given an analysis of what you are doing ie if you were to tell me that you are happy with the development in your back but need to strictly emphasis your bis and forearms then there would be some sense. i wouldn't ever do it but, then, people have different goals and i accept that.

however, you are basically saying that you accept whatever dc tells you because you believe dc's overall program (incl nutrition) will make you 'big and strong'.

then again, if you truly believe it will work and give it everything you've got then i am certain you will make great progress far more than someone who spends so much time analysing what they are doing that they can't focus on what really matters, and that is brutally hard work and focus.

i wish you good luck with it in any case.


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natural al
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« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2007, 07:22:23 AM »

fair enough, but you haven't explained anything or given an analysis of what you are doing ie if you were to tell me that you are happy with the development in your back but need to strictly emphasis your bis and forearms then there would be some sense. i wouldn't ever do it but, then, people have different goals and i accept that.

however, you are basically saying that you accept whatever dc tells you because you believe dc's overall program (incl nutrition) will make you 'big and strong'.

then again, if you truly believe it will work and give it everything you've got then i am certain you will make great progress far more than someone who spends so much time analysing what they are doing that they can't focus on what really matters, and that is brutally hard work and focus.

i wish you good luck with it in any case.




well let me try to explain my thought process.  First, I've been working out off an on for along time, I've tried tons of different things and read tons of information about various training protocol.

A few years ago I was doing max-ot and although I enjoyed the routine I ran into some problems so I stepped back and decided to develope my own sysytem.  What I developed was a routine that focused on heavy weights but incorperated slow negatives and rest pause movements done in a "traditional" sense or how Mike Metzer described them.  Heaviest weight you can handle for a rep or 2, rack it rest 10 seconds go-fail and repeat until you totally fail.  The parts of the program tha concerned me were joint health and my ability to recover.  I don't remember the split I had worked up but about the time I was finishing it up I ran across the dog logg and alot of DC's ideas were almost the same as what I was thinking.  I thought he was further along than I was knowledge and experience wise, I also liked the way he had things layed out.  I tried it and made great gains.

So that's why I iniitially tried DC.  Do I follow every single itty bitty aspect of the program?  No.  I've taken the time to tailor it to my individual needs. 

As far as doing a movement for width and for thickness, I'll confess I don't know kinseology-sp-but in my experience I find no problem with this.  If it's gonna make or break a program then fine.  My back is basically pretty thick, my lats are wide but I think they insert a little high, the goal with the movements I've picked out is to help fill out the lower insertion points-this is something I've come up with myself-if it doesn't work then it doens't work.
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natural al
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« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2007, 08:57:47 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwjUo9FYthk

sweet DC vid...I'm not even close to these type of poundages.

it's amazing, I've had such a shitty time for the last few years and now I'm almost overwhelmed by the stuff I want to see happen to my body in the next 6 months.

I'm gonna try something diet wise for 3 weeks and see how it goes, this could get interesting.

I'm also thinking of adding an AM cardio session...dont' know yet, this would replace the post workout cardio.
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natural al
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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2007, 10:45:40 AM »

calves-Donkey Raise-400*13 plus 30 partials.  20 more pounds than last workout, very intense.  I've maxed out the machine now I have to figure out how to pin more weight to it.

Seated Leg Curl-170*14, 27 second static and a 60 second stretch, 10 more pounds than last time.

Hack Squats-205*21, 25 partials and a 60 second stretch.  I keep reps high on this since it's pretty new in my rotation.  Pretty soon I'm gonna start adding alot of weight and dropping the reps.  Since i did 20 reps I figured I'd skip the widow maker, didn't really see the point.

abs-

v-raise:  1*25(bodywieght) and 1*20 (BW+5lbs)

Precor Crunch-100*12
                     110*12
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« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2007, 08:46:16 PM »

Looking good there Al keep up the good work man!
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« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2007, 02:29:57 AM »

Looks good bro, keep at it hard.

Did calves DC style yesterday, was weird, was aching but i got 12 reps,then 13, and then it was like being in the zone. it was still sore (man that stretch sucks lol). but not as bads as it was earlier in the set, and i just kept gettingmore reps, got to 16 and could probs got one or 2 more. then did about 30 shorter range quicker reps.nice lol.

That was leg press calf pressing!! Also gonna do Db calf raises (tho im gonna do them b4 forearms to save grip). For my 3rd exercsie i was gonna do a one leg at a time calf exercsie, would u suggest unilateral calf raises, or unilateral calf press on leg press machine?

davie
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natural al
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« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2007, 08:36:11 AM »

Looks good bro, keep at it hard.

Did calves DC style yesterday, was weird, was aching but i got 12 reps,then 13, and then it was like being in the zone. it was still sore (man that stretch sucks lol). but not as bads as it was earlier in the set, and i just kept gettingmore reps, got to 16 and could probs got one or 2 more. then did about 30 shorter range quicker reps.nice lol.

That was leg press calf pressing!! Also gonna do Db calf raises (tho im gonna do them b4 forearms to save grip). For my 3rd exercsie i was gonna do a one leg at a time calf exercsie, would u suggest unilateral calf raises, or unilateral calf press on leg press machine?

davie

I used to do unilateral toe presses on a 45 degree leg press, it was fine.  Not my favorite but it worked and was great for the limited equipment I had.  I don't know about DB calf raises, I was actually thinking of them yesturday and trying to figure out how they would work out.
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« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2007, 10:58:09 AM »

I used to do unilateral toe presses on a 45 degree leg press, it was fine.  Not my favorite but it worked and was great for the limited equipment I had.  I don't know about DB calf raises, I was actually thinking of them yesturday and trying to figure out how they would work out.

I was gonna do them the other day after forearm work, but couldnt hold the db's for more than a few seconds lol.

So il do the DB calf raises b4 forearms and also use straps.

I have leg press machine that u sit upright and press straight out.

My gyms v limited, that y unilateral calf work is my 3rd exercise. Il try the unilateral calf press.

davie
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natural al
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« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2007, 11:07:24 AM »

today is one of the few days in my training cycle that I really don't like.  I have back issues and I don't like doing deads but I thought it out and I'm pretty sure the way I'm doing them is going to accomplish what I want.  This is the only movement where I work my traps, they're pretty big from my wrastlin days but I want a little bit more.  So at the top of the movement I go out of my way to pull up and back.  I started off light but I"m working up at a consistant basis, I limit my first set to 4 reps no matter what...this is to insure that I dont' aggrevate my back, 2nd set I only go to about 10-12 again so I don't push my lower back.  Might seem pussyish but we gotta do what we gotta do.

Parellel grip pulldowns-250*14, 15RP second static and a 60 second stretch

Rack Deads-310*4
                  225*12

seated DB curl-55*15RP, got the same rep total for both arms, static and 60 second stretch

wrist curl-70*32RP
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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2007, 12:00:18 PM »

Hey NA you gonna be posting any pics from the arnold?
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2007, 04:03:53 PM »

Hey NA you gonna be posting any pics from the arnold?

I took a total of 2 pics at the arnold.  One with Mark Dugdale and one with Lee Labrada both with my camera phone.  I went a couple of years ago and took a bunch of pics and never, ever look at em so I figured it was a waste of time.  Basically I wore a sweat shirt cause I knew we were gonna have to walk along way and it was f'n cold as hell.  You really can't tell what I look like other than that I'm short  I was supposed to be in the video that Ed and Block took as an "anonymous fan" but they were running behind and it was like a 5 hour ride for me....I didn't feel like walking around at th expo anymore..it was totally jam packed-no fun.  I prolly won't go again.

I spoke with Rhyno, DA, VAlentino, Labrada-only for a sec, Dugdale, Lee Priest, Eryk Bui, DJ and lastly Chic....everyone was cool.  Chic was actually shocked that I didn't wat a pic with him.  I told him I had one from a couple of years ago.

Once I get into shape, I'll probably post a pic or 2.  Like I said earlier, I've had a rough few years.  If everything would have fallen into place I would have done the MGB last year but I got sick and then a bunch of stuff went bad on a personal level so that really halted any progress I could have made. 

I've got alot of time to make up for...it'll come.
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« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2007, 05:12:45 PM »

you seem like a pretty strong guy man from your journal.... keep up the good work man...... you will look fine eventually man bb isn't everything...... when shit goes bad its the last thing on your mind..... but keep at it and good luck
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