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Author Topic: Police State - Official Thread  (Read 539164 times)
roccoginge
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« Reply #425 on: June 28, 2011, 10:54:01 PM »

Do you maybe think that sometimes people become cops to rape the system and help criminals?  The movie "Departed" is serious.
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« Reply #426 on: June 29, 2011, 10:17:11 AM »


There's not enough in the story.  Was the guy trying to get away or made an innocent mistake and a corrupt cop shot him?



Chipotle got good food?

Yes, the story is a shell at this point and way to early to determine anything with that info.

Chipotle will make you a burrito the size of an infant with 2000 calories, or you can go the bowl route and eat pretty healthy there. Food is not bad.
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« Reply #427 on: June 29, 2011, 01:33:46 PM »

Chipotle will make you a burrito the size of an infant with 2000 calories, or you can go the bowl route and eat pretty healthy there. Food is not bad.



Hmmm...certainly will have to try that some day.
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« Reply #428 on: June 29, 2011, 03:01:39 PM »

Yeah.  Chipotle is good. 
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« Reply #429 on: June 29, 2011, 03:22:54 PM »

beach, can you merge this with my police state thread? 

Done.
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« Reply #430 on: June 29, 2011, 04:15:23 PM »

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Army, Navy Photographer Accused Of Passport Fraud
News4Jax ^ | Monday, June 27, 2011
Posted on June 29, 2011 7:59:21 PM EDT by nickcarraway

Elisha Dawkins graduated in August from nursing school in Jacksonville.

He put on hold his plans for taking the board exams because the Navy called him into action as a photographer.

Dawkins photographed happenings at Guantanamo Bay, an act that's evidence he's a trusted member of the military with top secret clearance.

Now, Dawkins, a Navy reservist and decorated Army combat photographer who served in Iraq, is in jail, charged with passport fraud. He's facing 10 years in prison for what could be a simple misunderstanding.

"Suddenly, he's picked up and thrown in jail? Then it's time for this senator to start asking questions," U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson., D-Fla., said.

Nelson has questions echoed by Dawkins' friends, including Dianne Rinehardt.

Elisha Dawkins served with the Army in Iraq.

"It's a travesty, and we're trying to stop it," Rinehardt said.

Rinehardt went through nursing school with Dawkins and is a veteran herself. She's upset about the trouble her friend is in. In sharing his story with other vets, Rinehardt said that lots of people who don't know Dawkins can't believe it. "We're all appalled that, how can you serve this country and be more dedicated to the ideals of this country, and serve this country and then be told, 'Guess what, you made a little clerical error. You're out of here.' And that's a travesty," Rinehardt said. A federal indictment states that Dawkins started to fill out a passport application in 2004, didn't complete it, then filled out a new application two years later. On that new application, he checked a box "no" for the question, "Have you ever applied before?" according to the indictment.

Dawkins got the passport, but three months ago, the government issued a warrant for his arrest. He was taking photos for the Navy at the time.

When Dawkins got back to the U.S. in April, he was arrested about a week later and has been in jail for two months since.

"The state department is implying there's something more. I want to know, and that's why I've written them," Nelson said. "We've sent emails through our standard home, family email chains throughout the country," Rinehardt said. "The more attention we bring to this, the more people will see this as a disservice."

Dawkins' attorney calls the case an "absurd prosecution," saying that filling out a "no" box "did not merit criminal charges."

Because the trial is scheduled for next month, if Dawkins is still in jail at that point, he will insist on going to trial.

A pretrial hearing Tuesday in Miami is the next step.







Truly freaking nuts. 
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« Reply #431 on: June 30, 2011, 02:11:30 PM »

Government sues Apollo 14 astronaut over lunar camera (Edgar Mitchell)
Yahoo ^ | 6/30/11 | Terry Baynes - Reuters


________________________ ________________________ _______________________



NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. government has sued a former NASA astronaut to recover a camera used to explore the moon's surface during the 1971 Apollo 14 mission after seeing it slated for sale in a New York auction.

The lawsuit, filed in Miami federal court on Wednesday, accuses Edgar Mitchell of illegally possessing the camera and attempting to sell it for profit.

In March, NASA learned that the British auction house Bonhams was planning to sell the camera at an upcoming Space History Sale, according to the suit.

The item was labeled "Movie Camera from the Lunar Surface" and billed as one of two cameras from the Apollo 14's lunar module Antares. The lot description said the item came "directly from the collection" of pilot Edgar Mitchell and had a pre-sale estimate of $60,000 to $80,000, the suit said.

Mitchell was a lunar module pilot on Apollo 14, which launched its nine-day mission in 1971 under the command of Alan Shepard. The sixth person to walk on the moon, Mitchell is now retired and runs a website selling his autographed picture.

He has made headlines in the past for his stated belief in the existence of extraterrestrial life.

"All equipment and property used during NASA operations remains the property of NASA unless explicitly released or transferred to another party," the government suit said, adding NASA had no record of the camera being given to Mitchell.

The suit said the government had made repeated requests to Mitchell and his lawyer to return the camera but received no response.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
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« Reply #432 on: June 30, 2011, 02:15:33 PM »

Collars for Dollars; How the drug war sacrifices real policing for easy arrests.
Reason Magazine ^ | 06/30/2011 | Peter Moskos


________________________ ____________________



When I was a police officer in Baltimore, one sergeant would sometimes motivate his troops in the middle of a shift change by joyfully shouting, “All right, you maggots! Let’s lock people up! They don’t pay you to stand around. I want production! I want lockups!” He said this while standing in front of a small sign he most likely authored: “Unlike the citizens of the Eastern District, you are required to work for your government check.”

In the police world, there are good arrests and better arrests, but there is no such thing as a bad arrest. In recent years, measures of “productivity” have achieved an almost totemic significance. And because they are so easy to count, arrests have come to outweigh more important but harder-to-quantify variables such as crimes prevented, fights mitigated, or public fears assuaged.

There’s an argument that putting pressure on rank-and-file officers to make lots of arrests is a good thing. After all, we pay police to arrest criminals. But there’s a difference between quantity and quality. Quantity is easy to influence, and the rank and file can easily increase their output of discretionary arrests for minor offenses like loitering, disorderly conduct, and possession of marijuana. They are also influenced by what is known in New York as “collars for dollars”: Arrest numbers are influenced by the incentive of overtime pay for finishing up paperwork and appearing in court.

Police would love to arrest only “real” criminals, but that isn’t easy. It’s difficult to find a good criminal. There’s never a felon around when you need one. Fishing for low-level drug arrests is a far easier way to generate overtime.

When I worked in Baltimore, officers would pull up on a drug corner and stop the slowest addict walking away. While conducting a perfectly legal “Terry Frisk”—a cursory search nominally conducted for officer safety—cops would feel some drugs in a pocket. That easy arrest and lockup likely meant two hours of overtime pay.

In some cities, like New York, it’s trickier. Overtime for court testimony is harder to get, and the state’s highest court has ruled—precisely to prevent the Baltimore-style approach—that feeling drugs during a Terry Frisk does not allow an officer to search that pocket and remove those drugs. The court reasoned that the drugs are not a threat to the officer’s safety, and safety is the only justification for these sorts of frisks.

In New York state, small-scale possession of marijuana is virtually decriminalized. It’s not even an arrestable offense. But police in need of overtime are nothing if not wily. So a group of officers might approach a man in a high-crime neighborhood and, in no uncertain terms, “ask” him to empty his pockets. Fearful, resigned, or simply taking the path of least resistance, the suspect might do so, and in the process he might reveal a small “dime bag” of weed. While possessing that amount of marijuana is not an arrestable offense, it becomes one as soon as the drug is placed in “public view.”

Supporters sometimes say these small-scale drug arrests are part of a “broken windows” approach to preventing crime. This tactic comes from an influential 1982 Atlantic magazine article by George Kelling and James Q. Wilson that combined the 19th century police theories of Robert Peel with the 20th century urban philosophy of Jane Jacobs. The idea is that if you take care of the little things—disorder, quality-of-life issues, and public fear—then the big things like robbery and murder will take care of themselves.

Since Police Commissioner William Bratton implemented a broken windows policing strategy in the early 1990s, homicides in New York dropped more than 80 percent. But the crime didn’t drop because police were cracking down on drug users; overall, illegal drug use is as high as ever. When the murder rate was falling fastest in the 1990s, police never arrested more than a few thousand people per year for public-view marijuana. Only after the crime drop slowed did police turn to small-scale drug arrests to meet their “productivity goals.” It’s as if real criminals became too difficult to find, and the addiction to overtime pay remained strong as ever.

Last year in New York City, 50,300 people—mostly young black and Hispanic men—were arrested solely for misdemeanor “public-view” possession of marijuana. It’s true that some may have been up to no good. And some might have been walking down the street proudly smoking a spliff in front of the police. But nobody really believes this accounts for most of those 50,300 lockups. Many were people just going about their business, intending to smoke later, in private, in the very manner the law was intended to decriminalize.

“What is it with the drugs?” a man once asked me while I was policing a 7-11 for coffee, “When there’s shootin’ or fightin’, you don’t seem to care! But when there’s drugs, you come right away.” It’s a fair question to ask. Why do we do it? What do we gain? Especially when we know drug arrests are expensive and turn a lot of otherwise law-abiding citizens into cop-hating criminals?

The drug war, because it can’t be won, encourages outward signs of police effectiveness at the expense of good old-fashioned policing. Hard-working cops, especially those who ask for little more than a middle-class income in return for the dangerous work they do, turn to drug arrests to make ends meet. The Baltimore sergeant was right: Police officers do need to work for their government check. It’s a shame “collars for dollars” has become the easiest way to do it.
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« Reply #433 on: June 30, 2011, 06:18:14 PM »

You know... There is are areas that cops are just to chicken shit to go.

I was talking to a local dispatcher the other day and they actually told me that there are areas where if there's a call for a shooting, the cops just ignore it and wait for the EMTs to show up first.

Talk about a bunch of punk ass bitches.

Of course, according to the anonymous cop on here, I'm lying, but whatever.


I don't know about ignoring it, but my brother has let me know that there are plenty of cops who cower when shit goes down.  Not sure if I hold it against them or not.  None of us really knows how we're going to react when bullets are flying at us (fortunately I've never been in such a situation).

But, if someone is in that situation and can't handle it, they need to get rid of them pronto.  And as I noted before, the police repeatedly fail to police themselves.
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« Reply #434 on: July 01, 2011, 07:20:54 AM »


I don't know about ignoring it, but my brother has let me know that there are plenty of cops who cower when shit goes down.  Not sure if I hold it against them or not.  None of us really knows how we're going to react when bullets are flying at us (fortunately I've never been in such a situation).

But, if someone is in that situation and can't handle it, they need to get rid of them pronto.  And as I noted before, the police repeatedly fail to police themselves.

Again, I can only speak for the police agencies I have worked for..

Over the 29 yrs I've been in the business, there have been ocassions when an officer failed to act due to being afraid. In every case I have been aware of or a witness to, that officer was immediatly dealt with. In most cases, cowardice is identified when an officer is new and on probation. Because usually, if you are in a department of any size, it doesn't take long before you are facing a hairy situation. Those officers are at will employees, on probation and are typically fired if they demonstrate they are scared and won't act. Nothing wrong with being scared, I've been scared many times, but you cannot fail to respond because you are scared.

So I am surprised your brother knows "plenty of cops" who cower when the shit hits the fan. I know of zero that are currently employed in this department who do. And tomorrow if one is identified, he/she will be terminated as they always are.

And Tu... your dispatcher mislead you. I don't think you are lying about this thing, but just fed some questionable information. EMS will NOT respond to a shooting if police have not arrived and deemed the scene safe to enter. So we don't have an option of waiting for EMS to go first. They will "stage" down the street and wait for us to give them the all clear. That is their protocol.  Now if there is information there are no suspects on scene like a self inflicted wound, well that's different.

I've been to plenty of shootings. I've been to plenty of shootings in really bad areas. It's not something cops look forward to because you have million things going through your head as you are driving there.  It's usually always chaotic, you don't know if the shooter(s) still there. If there is a crowd, you figure everyone is armed because you just don't know but there is little you can do about it. You have to give first aid to the victim and hope you have back up to watch the crowd. You have to gather suspect info and get that out over the air, find out who saw what and seperate the witnesses, establish a crime scene perimeter and make a lot of notifications. So its not an easy call but I've never seen or heard of any officers here shunning that call or any call because it's dangerous..

But I will tell you this... if there is a call of a large fight....cops usually don't kill themselves getting to those. The rookies will want to rush in, but then you have 20 people trading punches and it's impossible to control. The veterans know from experience most of them have the stamina of a 70 yr old and usually the fight runs it's course. You bump the siren as you get close and it helps break them up and scatter them. When we get there it's over with some bumps and bruises... If the info changes and weapons are involved, we do get there as soon as possible. but fist fights... not so much.     
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« Reply #435 on: July 01, 2011, 07:33:32 AM »

Do you maybe think that sometimes people become cops to rape the system and help criminals?  The movie "Departed" is serious.

I do. I don't know if that is their original intent, but over the last 20 yrs we have examples of cops who were criminals. New Orleans had it's share at one time and I recall San Antonio busted some cops who were providing security for a drug cartel to transport drugs and money. I can't say if that was their intention from day 1 but who knows..

I think screening applicants and doing thorough background checks is paramount to avoiding those issues. Also having a management that makes it clear lying, or any criminal activity is grounds for termination in every case.

Then they need to go further and terminate any officers who are shown to have covered for them. We are pretty strict here. You can screw up and make an honest mistake, get days off and move on with your career. But if you lie during the investigation, and it is uncovered, you are fired. If your buddy lies for you, he is fired. If you stop a drunk cop and don't arrest him, and it is discovered, you are fired. The cop who was drunk gets discipline but he is not fired. Any cop who knew about it and didn't report is is fired.

I think in that atmosphere, it would be hard to function as a criminal cop. That is the atmosphere we have here. You can survive screwing up in most cases, or mistakes of the heart, you can't survive criminal acts or lying. You can't survive covering for your buddy.  
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« Reply #436 on: July 01, 2011, 08:07:38 AM »


There's not enough in the story.  Was the guy trying to get away or made an innocent mistake and a corrupt cop shot him?



Chipotle got good food?

http://laist.com/2010/07/13/questions_arise_about_police_shooti.php

A deputy-involved shooting that left an 18-year-old dead has some questioning whether law enforcement should have used deadly force. On June 24th, plainsclothes officers from a multi-jurisdiction task force were meeting in a Studio City parking lot when they noticed a man apparently casing cars, including one of police's unmarked ones.
A task force member approached the man, who became uncooperative, prompting a struggle. A sheriff's deputy who came over in aid and drew his gun ordering the suspect to the ground was then hit by another vehicle. The driver, 18-year-old Granada Hills honors student Zac Champommier, was fatally shot.
The man being detained was 29-year-old Douglas Ryan Oeters. He told the LA Times that although Champommier hit a sheriff's deputy, he was driving slowly and didn't post a threat.
"They did not show any badge before rushing at me," Oeters explained of the officers, who more resembled red necks than police. "I am sure Zac was scared just like me and left the parking lot due to a panic they started for no reason. This has caused an innocent 18-year-old to be shot after he reacted to the group surrounding me."
Sheriff's officials told the Times that "the two officers who fired their weapons did not have time to identify themselves to" Zac. They also said they clearly identified themselves to Oeters.
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« Reply #437 on: July 01, 2011, 08:10:17 AM »

Just type in google. Chipotle shooting studio city
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« Reply #438 on: July 01, 2011, 10:59:55 AM »

So I should believe the anonymous police officer over the dispatcher who I know and trust 100 percent?

apparently...
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« Reply #439 on: July 01, 2011, 11:06:54 AM »

apparently...

Sorry... I don't trust the government.
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« Reply #440 on: July 01, 2011, 11:10:51 AM »

http://laist.com/2010/07/13/questions_arise_about_police_shooti.php

A deputy-involved shooting that left an 18-year-old dead has some questioning whether law enforcement should have used deadly force. On June 24th, plainsclothes officers from a multi-jurisdiction task force were meeting in a Studio City parking lot when they noticed a man apparently casing cars, including one of police's unmarked ones.
A task force member approached the man, who became uncooperative, prompting a struggle. A sheriff's deputy who came over in aid and drew his gun ordering the suspect to the ground was then hit by another vehicle. The driver, 18-year-old Granada Hills honors student Zac Champommier, was fatally shot.
The man being detained was 29-year-old Douglas Ryan Oeters. He told the LA Times that although Champommier hit a sheriff's deputy, he was driving slowly and didn't post a threat.
"They did not show any badge before rushing at me," Oeters explained of the officers, who more resembled red necks than police. "I am sure Zac was scared just like me and left the parking lot due to a panic they started for no reason. This has caused an innocent 18-year-old to be shot after he reacted to the group surrounding me."
Sheriff's officials told the Times that "the two officers who fired their weapons did not have time to identify themselves to" Zac. They also said they clearly identified themselves to Oeters.

I wonder who wrote the article..it's "pose" a threat not "post" a threat..

I would prefer to wait until the investigation is complete to comment but I will comment on the article itself. I've read a few articles written by otherwise good folks that dealt with incidents I had direct knowledge of and they got a lot of things wrong or wrote the article with a slant to sell papers.

First, there are very few police shootings where "some people" haven't wondered if it was a good shooting. I know of one where the officer shot 1 time at a person who was kneeling over a victim with a buther knife poised to stab the victim in the chest. The cop had yelled to drop the knife as the suspect was approaching the victim, waited until the last moment to take the shot and killed the suspect just before they could stab the victim.

You would think..ok, they don't get any better than that...... but you would be amazed at the outcry from the minority community over the shooting. So knowing there is rarely a police shooting where some people don't bitch, that first line in the article is a given..

Then Oeters says Zac (the deceased) must have been scared and left the parking lot due to the panic.... but also says that when Zac struck the deputy he was driving slow and didn't "post" a threat. Seems a little contradictory in nature.

So I still think at this point, it's best to wait till the smoke clears.      
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« Reply #441 on: July 01, 2011, 11:11:26 AM »

Sorry... I don't trust the government.

irrelevant to our conversation at this point
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« Reply #442 on: July 01, 2011, 11:21:06 AM »

So I should believe the anonymous police officer over the dispatcher who I know and trust 100 percent?

1. If your dispatcher is so sure cops are ignoring shots fired calls and letting EMS go in first then ;

A. Why doesn't she/he report the behavior so it can be addressed?
B. Why isn't EMT raising hell because they have to go into a hot area because police aren't responding?

Dispatchers have limited insight because they dispatch. How is he/she arriving at the conclusion they purposely duck those calls?

I'm not a dispatcher, I'm the guy who actually goes to the calls. Believe what you want..

   
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« Reply #443 on: July 01, 2011, 12:42:39 PM »

Hardly... You hate the idea that your amazing government paycheck profession might actually have faults in it.

I don't hate the idea, I hate that it does have faults. I believe I acknowledge that and have spoken about some of them. I call a duck a duck

It's commonly understood that these calls go unanswered and no one cares because it's the "ghetto".

The EMTs avoid the places too when they can... or just wait until daylight or what have you.
If that is happening, that's sad. Wouldn't and doesn't happen here. 

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« Reply #444 on: July 01, 2011, 01:29:23 PM »

Again, I can only speak for the police agencies I have worked for..

Over the 29 yrs I've been in the business, there have been ocassions when an officer failed to act due to being afraid. In every case I have been aware of or a witness to, that officer was immediatly dealt with. In most cases, cowardice is identified when an officer is new and on probation. Because usually, if you are in a department of any size, it doesn't take long before you are facing a hairy situation. Those officers are at will employees, on probation and are typically fired if they demonstrate they are scared and won't act. Nothing wrong with being scared, I've been scared many times, but you cannot fail to respond because you are scared.

So I am surprised your brother knows "plenty of cops" who cower when the shit hits the fan. I know of zero that are currently employed in this department who do. And tomorrow if one is identified, he/she will be terminated as they always are.

And Tu... your dispatcher mislead you. I don't think you are lying about this thing, but just fed some questionable information. EMS will NOT respond to a shooting if police have not arrived and deemed the scene safe to enter. So we don't have an option of waiting for EMS to go first. They will "stage" down the street and wait for us to give them the all clear. That is their protocol.  Now if there is information there are no suspects on scene like a self inflicted wound, well that's different.

I've been to plenty of shootings. I've been to plenty of shootings in really bad areas. It's not something cops look forward to because you have million things going through your head as you are driving there.  It's usually always chaotic, you don't know if the shooter(s) still there. If there is a crowd, you figure everyone is armed because you just don't know but there is little you can do about it. You have to give first aid to the victim and hope you have back up to watch the crowd. You have to gather suspect info and get that out over the air, find out who saw what and seperate the witnesses, establish a crime scene perimeter and make a lot of notifications. So its not an easy call but I've never seen or heard of any officers here shunning that call or any call because it's dangerous..

But I will tell you this... if there is a call of a large fight....cops usually don't kill themselves getting to those. The rookies will want to rush in, but then you have 20 people trading punches and it's impossible to control. The veterans know from experience most of them have the stamina of a 70 yr old and usually the fight runs it's course. You bump the siren as you get close and it helps break them up and scatter them. When we get there it's over with some bumps and bruises... If the info changes and weapons are involved, we do get there as soon as possible. but fist fights... not so much.     



haha, please.

Dude what police agency do you work for?  It's amazing the utopia going on.  Bad officers are dealt with swiftly and firmly.  Few, if any cops cower.  Piss poor behavior is identified early and dealt with.  Professionalism rules the day.  There is no blue wall.  Cops who cover for each other are harshly dealt with.

lol, I've never even heard of such a close to perfect police department much less encountered one.

Like I said, I don't have a bad view of you guys having a brother as cop.  I don't even have a problem with you all giving each other passes for speeding and other minor traffic violations.  But some of this is just nuts.
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« Reply #445 on: July 01, 2011, 01:43:48 PM »



haha, please.

Dude what police agency do you work for?  It's amazing the utopia going on.  Bad officers are dealt with swiftly and firmly.  Few, if any cops cower.  Piss poor behavior is identified early and dealt with.  Professionalism rules the day.  There is no blue wall.  Cops who cover for each other are harshly dealt with.

lol, I've never even heard of such a close to perfect police department much less encountered one.

Like I said, I don't have a bad view of you guys having a brother as cop.  I don't even have a problem with you all giving each other passes for speeding and other minor traffic violations.  But some of this is just nuts.

Austin Police Department

It's all accurate information. The blue wall for all intents and purposes came crashing down about 8-10 yrs ago. Not only the holding officers accountable, but with advances of video cameras in every car, some officer now carrying body cameras, there is little left to the imagination.

They pay us very well here, you will never hear a cop complaining about the pay. And for that pay, they expect a lot. It's a pain sometimes because on ocassion the citizens expect too much, but I get it.... we say we are professional, we expect to be paid as professional, it's only fair the public expects us to be professional.   
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« Reply #446 on: July 01, 2011, 01:45:08 PM »



haha, please.

Dude what police agency do you work for?  It's amazing the utopia going on.  Bad officers are dealt with swiftly and firmly.  Few, if any cops cower.  Piss poor behavior is identified early and dealt with.  Professionalism rules the day.  There is no blue wall.  Cops who cover for each other are harshly dealt with.

lol, I've never even heard of such a close to perfect police department much less encountered one.

Like I said, I don't have a bad view of you guys having a brother as cop.  I don't even have a problem with you all giving each other passes for speeding and other minor traffic violations.  But some of this is just nuts.

and kudos to your brother. My brother is a retired cop. I kinda owe him for leading me down this path. 
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« Reply #447 on: July 01, 2011, 06:35:32 PM »

Exactly Skip... It's complete crap.

From Youtube below.

Not exactly the perfect department he makes Austin out to be.

(Note... I'm not saying the guy below is guilty or innocent, just that the same shit happens everywhere)



Dec 8, 2007 - Gary Griffin can now return to the force after he won an appeal after losing his job as a police officer with the Austin TX police department due to excessive force. He had been an officer for 10 years previous. It is not known when he will be back on the streets.

A man was restrained and beaten by a Austin TX police officer last year and now officer Gary Griffin can return back to the force after losing his job. Griffin appealed the decision by acting chief Cathy Ellison of the Austin police department.

The chief made the decision to kick Griffin off of the force for six months after reviewing a police dash cam video that showed Griffin using excessive force.

It took a whole year but Griffin has finally won the appeal and he is returning back to work and that is not going over well with the family of Joseph Cruz. Cruz is the man in the video who was beaten.

Cruz was sleeping at a bus stop when Griffin tried to wake him up and that is when things got out of hand.

Before Griffin returns to the force he will have to see a psychiatrist.

The Austin City Council on Thursday approved a $55,000 settlement for the family of a mentally ill man who was beaten by an Austin police officer.

According to court documents, Griffin responded to a "person down" call in July 2006 and found Cruz, who has schizophrenia, asleep on a bus stop bench. When Cruz did not wake up, Griffin repeatedly hit him with his billy club and then punched Cruz in the face, breaking his nose, the documents said.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7nEf2563Fs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7nEf2563Fs</a>

a great example of what I was talking about. The officers actions were out of line. Another officer brought it to the attention of the supervisor. The supervisor reported it and the officer was terminated after an investigation. The officer excercised his right to appeal and against our wishes he was reinstated by the arbitrator. The arbitrator is independant and the department is bound by civil service law to abide by the ruling. He has since bneen removed from patrol
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Skip8282
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« Reply #448 on: July 02, 2011, 05:34:26 AM »

a great example of what I was talking about. The officers actions were out of line. Another officer brought it to the attention of the supervisor. The supervisor reported it and the officer was terminated after an investigation. The officer excercised his right to appeal and against our wishes he was reinstated by the arbitrator. The arbitrator is independant and the department is bound by civil service law to abide by the ruling. He has since bneen removed from patrol



No, this is actually a great example of what I said earlier in thread:




It doesn't matter, you could have 100 checks and balances.  The only thing the public cares about is the end result, and in the end, the police do a horrible job of policing themselves.  Rarely are cops terminated. 

I'm not exempt by the way.  As a public employee myself, we also do a horrible job of weeding out the incompetent lackies.  Just trying to get one out is a bureaucratic nightmare.  And the public does take notice.



That's why federal employees also get a bad rep.  Nobody gives a shit about us crying about the bureacracy.  The end result is we fail to police ourselves.  Laws, rules, policies, negotiated agreements all need to be changed so that we can weed out the bad apples.

Until then, they will continue to overshadow the rest.

My brothers in Dallas, not far from you.  Not buying the Blue Wall stuff for a minute.  8-10 years ago, you were all denying it existed.  Now it's well, it did exist but it's gone, haha.  Sorry, he's told me way, way too much.

When measured in the balance though, I think overall the police do a solid job.  A lot that needs work, but a lot of good stuff too that never gets noticed or appreciated.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #449 on: July 02, 2011, 07:13:11 AM »

But the cops DID police themselves. The cops did everything they were supposed to when this was brought to light by another officer.

And my brother was Ft Worth. He would agree with you that Dallas isnt where Austin or Ft Worth is yet. But give it 10 more years. And the blue wall is gone here. There are just too many real world examples where cops have reported cops illegal or unprofessional behavior to think otherwise. And frankly, I don't miss it. I was never into the us vs them mentality
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