Author Topic: Police State - Official Thread  (Read 990696 times)

avxo

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1625 on: May 29, 2014, 12:00:22 PM »
Except on a vacation you can go where you want when you want. On Administrative leave you are required to be available for any and all internal investigation interviews and meetings and notify your supervisor of your whereabouts during business hours, and you must remain within the local area. The whole purpose of admin leave is so they are obligated to be available for the investigation and while it is being conducted, they are not financially damaged. Often times the investigation will reveal there was no crime committed.

Why do cops need this extra layer of protection not available to citizens? You have police unions objecting to having cops recorded. You have police unions demanding that cops be given a "cooling off" period prior to being interviewed about shootings. You have police unions demanding that cops see alll available video and evidence prior to making a statement about such incidents.

Why? You are public servants. You don't deserve any more protections than the public you protect - and often times abuse.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1626 on: May 29, 2014, 02:20:05 PM »

A 2010 Pentagon directive on military support to civilian authorities details what critics say is a troubling policy that envisions the Obama administration’s potential use of military force against Americans.

The directive contains noncontroversial provisions on support to civilian fire and emergency services, special events and the domestic use of the Army Corps of Engineers.


PHOTOS: Top 10 U.S. fighter jets


The troubling aspect of the directive outlines presidential authority for the use of military arms and forces, including unarmed drones, in operations against domestic unrest.

“This appears to be the latest step in the administration’s decision to use force within the United States against its citizens,” said a defense official opposed to the directive.

Directive No. 3025.18, “Defense Support of Civil Authorities,” was issued Dec. 29, 2010, and states that U.S. commanders “are provided emergency authority under this directive.”

“Federal military forces shall not be used to quell civil disturbances unless specifically authorized by the president in accordance with applicable law or permitted under emergency authority,” the directive states.

“In these circumstances, those federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the president is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances” under two conditions.

The conditions include military support needed “to prevent significant loss of life or wanton destruction of property and are necessary to restore governmental function and public order.” A second use is when federal, state and local authorities “are unable or decline to provide adequate protection for federal property or federal governmental functions.”

“Federal action, including the use of federal military forces, is authorized when necessary to protect the federal property or functions,” the directive states.

Military assistance can include loans of arms, ammunition, vessels and aircraft. The directive states clearly that it is for engaging civilians during times of unrest.

A U.S. official said the Obama administration considered but rejected deploying military force under the directive during the recent standoff with Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and his armed supporters.

Mr. Bundy is engaged in a legal battle with the federal Bureau of Land Management over unpaid grazing fees. Along with a group of protesters, Mr. Bundy in April confronted federal and local authorities in a standoff that ended when the authorities backed down.

The Pentagon directive authorizes the secretary of defense to approve the use of unarmed drones in domestic unrest. But it bans the use of missile-firing unmanned aircraft.

“Use of armed [unmanned aircraft systems] is not authorized,” the directive says.

The directive was signed by then-Deputy Defense Secretary William J. Lynn. A copy can be found on the Pentagon website: http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/302518p.pdf.

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Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1628 on: May 30, 2014, 06:51:37 AM »
Why do cops need this extra layer of protection not available to citizens? You have police unions objecting to having cops recorded. You have police unions demanding that cops be given a "cooling off" period prior to being interviewed about shootings. You have police unions demanding that cops see alll available video and evidence prior to making a statement about such incidents.

Why? You are public servants. You don't deserve any more protections than the public you protect - and often times abuse.

Some people, obviously not all, but some understand the nature of the profession. There was a time when cops were like the average citizen. They were fired at will for any reason. You wrote the mayors daughter a ticket, you're fired. You arrested a large contributer to the Sheriffs campaign? you're fired. So over the course of the last 150 yrs some protections were built in because having a more professional police organization was important to the citizens. As far as the cooling off period I believe that evolved because studies have shown that right after a high adrenaline incident memory/recall isn't very complete. Officers were getting hemmed up because they would immediatly give a statement, then a few days later after thinking about it, add, or detract from the original statement as details became more clear and it would be construed that they lied about the original statement. Turns out they didn't lie, it's just a process the brain goes through. So in the interest of getting the most accurate statement the first time, they are given 72 hrs. During this time they should be making notes from shortly after the time of the incident till the interview. Your second part of that is for the same reason. I personally have gone through an incident and I could have sworn I was the one who placed the suspect in the back seat. But when I review the video, as I'm approaching the back of the car, another officer takes the subject from me and placed them in the car. I would have lost a bet on it that I did it. That's one example of why it is good to review the information. We are not looking to catch the officer in a "lie", we are wanting the most accurate information.
I don't agree with everything my police association does and says and often times they are a fringe part of the officers rather than what the entire department feels. I've personally sent at least a dozen emails to our Association President over the last 2 yrs voicing my opposition to his statements/position but to no avail. If he were not retiring this year, I would vote against him for the next term.   But even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile and there are things like the "cool off" period you mentioned that I totally agree with.
I can't go a day without reading about some knucklehead in a police uniform doing something stupid, arrogant or down right illegal. But having been in the profession for 31 yrs I believe overall policing has improved. If we would have had cameras back 50 yrs ago like we do today.... but even then, and especially now, there are a vast majority of good officers trying to do the right thing in a difficult job. Those videos would outnumber the bad ones 100,000 to 1 if people bothered to film cops doing good things and posting it on you tube. Should be expect all officers to be excellent cops? Absolutley and I hope the profession continues to strive to reach that. But as long as we have to hire humans to do the job, we'll continue to see abuses and you tube videos showing cops doing stupid or down right illegal things. Like you, I don't believe that is acceptable. Our difference is that  I believe it is not the norm, nor close to the norm considering the millions of police/citizen contacts a year.        

avxo

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1629 on: May 30, 2014, 09:47:44 AM »
Some people, obviously not all, but some understand the nature of the profession. There was a time when cops were like the average citizen. They were fired at will for any reason. You wrote the mayors daughter a ticket, you're fired. You arrested a large contributer to the Sheriffs campaign? you're fired. So over the course of the last 150 yrs some protections were built in because having a more professional police organization was important to the citizens. As far as the cooling off period I believe that evolved because studies have shown that right after a high adrenaline incident memory/recall isn't very complete. Officers were getting hemmed up because they would immediatly give a statement, then a few days later after thinking about it, add, or detract from the original statement as details became more clear and it would be construed that they lied about the original statement. Turns out they didn't lie, it's just a process the brain goes through. So in the interest of getting the most accurate statement the first time, they are given 72 hrs. During this time they should be making notes from shortly after the time of the incident till the interview. Your second part of that is for the same reason. I personally have gone through an incident and I could have sworn I was the one who placed the suspect in the back seat. But when I review the video, as I'm approaching the back of the car, another officer takes the subject from me and placed them in the car. I would have lost a bet on it that I did it. That's one example of why it is good to review the information. We are not looking to catch the officer in a "lie", we are wanting the most accurate information.
I don't agree with everything my police association does and says and often times they are a fringe part of the officers rather than what the entire department feels. I've personally sent at least a dozen emails to our Association President over the last 2 yrs voicing my opposition to his statements/position but to no avail. If he were not retiring this year, I would vote against him for the next term.   But even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile and there are things like the "cool off" period you mentioned that I totally agree with.
I can't go a day without reading about some knucklehead in a police uniform doing something stupid, arrogant or down right illegal. But having been in the profession for 31 yrs I believe overall policing has improved. If we would have had cameras back 50 yrs ago like we do today.... but even then, and especially now, there are a vast majority of good officers trying to do the right thing in a difficult job. Those videos would outnumber the bad ones 100,000 to 1 if people bothered to film cops doing good things and posting it on you tube. Should be expect all officers to be excellent cops? Absolutley and I hope the profession continues to strive to reach that. But as long as we have to hire humans to do the job, we'll continue to see abuses and you tube videos showing cops doing stupid or down right illegal things. Like you, I don't believe that is acceptable. Our difference is that  I believe it is not the norm, nor close to the norm considering the millions of police/citizen contacts a year.        

I don't necessarily disagree with what you write. I agree that many (even most) police officers are decent people who want to do a good job, and I understand that even well-meaning people make honest mistakes. I don't want to throw a cop who makes a mistake in jail and throw away the key.

What I do want is twofold: first to ensure that we have zero tolerance for bad cops and actively weed out and punish bad apples and second to ensure that we don't create a caste of people with special privileges (which is what we have, in essence, done with cops).

Let's talk about the 72 hour rule... do citizens have the same "timeout" for their brain to go through the process? Can they see all the evidence available before making a statement? If not, why not? Why afford police officers special rights in this instance?

I'm all for reasonable rules to support police in their, oftentimes, difficult work. But that doesn't mean turning a beat into a fiefdom and police officer into a feudal Lord.

avxo

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1630 on: May 30, 2014, 09:52:01 AM »
http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/05/30/toddler-critically-injured-during-police-raid



Just wow.   

Wow... That Police Chief ought to get fired, as well as everyone else involved with the raid and the decision to not investigate.

Poor kid.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1632 on: May 30, 2014, 10:12:54 AM »
Some people, obviously not all, but some understand the nature of the profession. There was a time when cops were like the average citizen. They were fired at will for any reason. You wrote the mayors daughter a ticket, you're fired. You arrested a large contributer to the Sheriffs campaign? you're fired. So over the course of the last 150 yrs some protections were built in because having a more professional police organization was important to the citizens. As far as the cooling off period I believe that evolved because studies have shown that right after a high adrenaline incident memory/recall isn't very complete. Officers were getting hemmed up because they would immediatly give a statement, then a few days later after thinking about it, add, or detract from the original statement as details became more clear and it would be construed that they lied about the original statement. Turns out they didn't lie, it's just a process the brain goes through. So in the interest of getting the most accurate statement the first time, they are given 72 hrs. During this time they should be making notes from shortly after the time of the incident till the interview. Your second part of that is for the same reason. I personally have gone through an incident and I could have sworn I was the one who placed the suspect in the back seat. But when I review the video, as I'm approaching the back of the car, another officer takes the subject from me and placed them in the car. I would have lost a bet on it that I did it. That's one example of why it is good to review the information. We are not looking to catch the officer in a "lie", we are wanting the most accurate information.
I don't agree with everything my police association does and says and often times they are a fringe part of the officers rather than what the entire department feels. I've personally sent at least a dozen emails to our Association President over the last 2 yrs voicing my opposition to his statements/position but to no avail. If he were not retiring this year, I would vote against him for the next term.   But even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile and there are things like the "cool off" period you mentioned that I totally agree with.
I can't go a day without reading about some knucklehead in a police uniform doing something stupid, arrogant or down right illegal. But having been in the profession for 31 yrs I believe overall policing has improved. If we would have had cameras back 50 yrs ago like we do today.... but even then, and especially now, there are a vast majority of good officers trying to do the right thing in a difficult job. Those videos would outnumber the bad ones 100,000 to 1 if people bothered to film cops doing good things and posting it on you tube. Should be expect all officers to be excellent cops? Absolutley and I hope the profession continues to strive to reach that. But as long as we have to hire humans to do the job, we'll continue to see abuses and you tube videos showing cops doing stupid or down right illegal things. Like you, I don't believe that is acceptable. Our difference is that  I believe it is not the norm, nor close to the norm considering the millions of police/citizen contacts a year.        

What's more worrisome to me than the occasional total fuckhead you'll find among mostly good police forces everywhere are the small departments you hear about where it seems like rights abuses are accepted by almost everyone on the force. 

Brings to mind this clip from my favorite tv show:


Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1633 on: May 30, 2014, 11:26:54 AM »
I don't necessarily disagree with what you write. I agree that many (even most) police officers are decent people who want to do a good job, and I understand that even well-meaning people make honest mistakes. I don't want to throw a cop who makes a mistake in jail and throw away the key.

What I do want is twofold: first to ensure that we have zero tolerance for bad cops and actively weed out and punish bad apples and second to ensure that we don't create a caste of people with special privileges (which is what we have, in essence, done with cops).

Let's talk about the 72 hour rule... do citizens have the same "timeout" for their brain to go through the process? Can they see all the evidence available before making a statement? If not, why not? Why afford police officers special rights in this instance?

I'm all for reasonable rules to support police in their, oftentimes, difficult work. But that doesn't mean turning a beat into a fiefdom and police officer into a feudal Lord.

Yes, citizens have even more rights in many cases. They can refuse to talk to the cops period.  The officer is obligated to talk to Internal Affairs, they have no choice.  Citizens can refuse to speak to the police, and discovery rules mandate they and their attorney have access to the evidence before trial.

Maybe we aren't all that far apart. The officers in general are afforded "special" privilges(protections) due to the very nature of the job, which is generally being placed in less than ideal circumstances expected to get particular outcomes. While I agree there are instances when a cop gets over on the system, I've seen many more cases where without protections in place, the good cop, trying to do the best thing under the circumstances, would have been hosed.     

avxo

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1634 on: May 30, 2014, 01:21:17 PM »
Yes, citizens have even more rights in many cases. They can refuse to talk to the cops period.  The officer is obligated to talk to Internal Affairs, they have no choice.

The Officer is obligated to appear, but he doesn't have to make any statements, especially any incriminating ones.


Citizens can refuse to speak to the police, and discovery rules mandate they and their attorney have access to the evidence before trial.

Officers who are indicted (and their lawyers) will have access to the evidence before trial as well. They don't lose their Constitutional rights by virtue of being cops.


Maybe we aren't all that far apart. The officers in general are afforded "special" privilges(protections) due to the very nature of the job, which is generally being placed in less than ideal circumstances expected to get particular outcomes. While I agree there are instances when a cop gets over on the system, I've seen many more cases where without protections in place, the good cop, trying to do the best thing under the circumstances, would have been hosed.

No doubt - and I have no issue with affording Officers reasonable privileges. But what they have now is not only beyond reasonable, but all too often results in egregious abuses by Officers being whitewashed with offenders given some administrative suspension and not much else. Look at the examples in this thread.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1635 on: May 30, 2014, 01:58:19 PM »
The Officer is obligated to appear, but he doesn't have to make any statements, especially any incriminating ones.

[


Officers who are indicted (and their lawyers) will have access to the evidence before trial as well. They don't lose their Constitutional rights by virtue of being cops.


No doubt - and I have no issue with affording Officers reasonable privileges. But what they have now is not only beyond reasonable, but all too often results in egregious abuses by Officers being whitewashed with offenders given some administrative suspension and not much else. Look at the examples in this thread.

That isn't true with IA cases. The officer is compelled to cooperate and give a statement. If not he is terminated. With criminal cases, he is afforded the same rights as a citizen.

I think we disagree to a degree on what is beyond reasonable.   

avxo

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1636 on: May 31, 2014, 12:22:54 AM »
That isn't true with IA cases. The officer is compelled to cooperate and give a statement. If not he is terminated.

How is that different from any other employer who calls an employee in and says: "Jenkins, there's been an increased consumption of toilet paper since you came on board. Are you responsible? If you will not answer you will lose your job!" They can't compel you to answer, and if they do, it's (at best) unclear that the statement could then be used against the person who made it vis–à–vis Garrity.


I think we disagree to a degree on what is beyond reasonable.

That much is clear.

You will forgive me if I find unreasonable having superiors stand by officers who shoot 70 year olds who try to reach for a cane because they were in fear of their life, or superiors who stand by cops that shoot and kill a 12 lbs dog on the grounds that the dog "refused to follow verbal commands" making the cops feel threatened, or any number of others cases I could cite.

The thing is, I'm sure you not one of the rotten apples that we read so much about in this thread. In fact I'm sure that you are as disgusted and outraged as the rest of us. Yet you insist that all is good, and that the internal process of discipline works.

But the facts don't match up: police have basically setup an internal system where all but the most egregious offenses are handled internally, usually on the down-low. Cases which can't be handled quietly "in the family" usually end up with slap-on-the-wrist penalties such as 'retraining' or with cops quitting before they can be fired, and they only rarely result in prosecutions. As a result, plenty of cops act with impunity, confident in the fact that should someone brave enough to stand up and complain nothing will come of it.

Perhaps your department is different. Perhaps you guys do it right. But if you do, then you are the exception and not the rule. And therein lies the problem.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1637 on: May 31, 2014, 02:17:32 PM »

avxo

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1638 on: May 31, 2014, 02:46:34 PM »
Reposting agenda21nwo's post from Gossip & Opinions:

Monique Hernandez was pulled over in February of 2012 by Beaumont police officer, Enoch Clark. When Clark attempted to subdue Hernandez, he said she ‘resisted.’

Although the dashcam footage tells a different tale, Clark said that in order to get her in handcuffs, he had to use his department-issued JPX gunpowder-propelled pepper spray weapon and fire it less than a foot away from her face.

The gunpowder powered JPX Pepper Gun launches OC (pepper spray) at 405 mph.

The results from firing the gun at such a close proximity were catastrophic.

The blast of pepper gel sliced her right eye in half, fractured her right orbital bone and severed the optic nerve in her left eye.

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/womans-eyes-blown-pieces-cop-gunpowder-powered-pepper-gun/#2bFKzJplDhUHhM28.99

I'm at a loss for words. I hope the jury realizes that 20 years is nothing.


And now, for the update:

I guess they didn't - hung jury, with two holdouts results in mistrial. Out of this world... out of this fucking world.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1639 on: June 01, 2014, 02:27:22 PM »
That isn't true with IA cases. The officer is compelled to cooperate and give a statement. If not he is terminated. With criminal cases, he is afforded the same rights as a citizen.

I think we disagree to a degree on what is beyond reasonable.   


How is that different with anybody else?  If I witness somebody shooting somebody else, I can't claim 5th amendment rights and not talk.

If I'm accused of a crime I can plead the 5th, but so can you.

If you're forced to choose between self-incrimination and losing your job, the Garrity rule prevents any of your statements from being used against you.

Me thinks, you're trying to be dishonest once again.


Nice of you to ignore the question as to why cops should have a cool down period but nobody else should.  ::)

Skip8282

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1640 on: June 01, 2014, 02:46:51 PM »
Some comfort.

This was the guy avxo put up...one of the most egregious police abuses we've had on this board.  He won the suit, but there's no justice because nothing will happen to these shitbag cops.

http://rt.com/usa/new-mexico-anal-probes-737/

1.6 million...still suing the doctors that went along with it.

avxo

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1641 on: June 01, 2014, 05:23:36 PM »
Some comfort.

This was the guy avxo put up...one of the most egregious police abuses we've had on this board.  He won the suit, but there's no justice because nothing will happen to these shitbag cops.

http://rt.com/usa/new-mexico-anal-probes-737/

1.6 million...still suing the doctors that went along with it.

If I was the guy who was so horribly violated I would not settle; no matter what the circumstances, no matter what the amount. I would insist on going before a jury and having my case heard. Because this isn't about money. It's about holding these assholes accountable for their actions.

I'm going to name them, so that their names will remain forever associated with their heinous acts:

Deming Police Officers Bobby Orosco, Robert Chavez and Hernandez.
Hidalgo County Deputies David Arredondo, Robert Rodriguez and Patrick Green.
Gila Regional Medical Center and Dr. Robert Wilcox and Okay Odocha.

These people ought to lose their jobs (and in the case of the Doctors, their licenses) and be held accountable, in front of a Court, for what they did.

Skip8282

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1642 on: June 03, 2014, 04:03:44 PM »

How is that different with anybody else?  If I witness somebody shooting somebody else, I can't claim 5th amendment rights and not talk.

If I'm accused of a crime I can plead the 5th, but so can you.

If you're forced to choose between self-incrimination and losing your job, the Garrity rule prevents any of your statements from being used against you.

Me thinks, you're trying to be dishonest once again.


Nice of you to ignore the question as to why cops should have a cool down period but nobody else should.  ::)


Bump for some honesty....yeah, I know - wishful thinking, lol.


I agree avxo, take the license away from those doctors.  But, I'm not sure he should have to make the point via lawsuit.  To me anyway, it's inexcusable that federal and state prosecutors are not bringing down these shitbag cops.

 

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1643 on: June 03, 2014, 06:51:07 PM »
I agree avxo, take the license away from those doctors.  But, I'm not sure he should have to make the point via lawsuit.  To me anyway, it's inexcusable that federal and state prosecutors are not bringing down these shitbag cops.

Absolutely. It's insane that State and Federal authorities haven't already gotten involved in this case. Even if it turns out that everything was kosher, the facts of the case (as we know them) warrant at least a serious investigation and a public announcement of the results.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1644 on: June 09, 2014, 02:02:03 PM »
How is that different from any other employer who calls an employee in and says: "Jenkins, there's been an increased consumption of toilet paper since you came on board. Are you responsible? If you will not answer you will lose your job!" They can't compel you to answer, and if they do, it's (at best) unclear that the statement could then be used against the person who made it vis–à–vis Garrity.


That much is clear.

You will forgive me if I find unreasonable having superiors stand by officers who shoot 70 year olds who try to reach for a cane because they were in fear of their life, or superiors who stand by cops that shoot and kill a 12 lbs dog on the grounds that the dog "refused to follow verbal commands" making the cops feel threatened, or any number of others cases I could cite.

The thing is, I'm sure you not one of the rotten apples that we read so much about in this thread. In fact I'm sure that you are as disgusted and outraged as the rest of us. Yet you insist that all is good, and that the internal process of discipline works.

But the facts don't match up: police have basically setup an internal system where all but the most egregious offenses are handled internally, usually on the down-low. Cases which can't be handled quietly "in the family" usually end up with slap-on-the-wrist penalties such as 'retraining' or with cops quitting before they can be fired, and they only rarely result in prosecutions. As a result, plenty of cops act with impunity, confident in the fact that should someone brave enough to stand up and complain nothing will come of it.

Perhaps your department is different. Perhaps you guys do it right. But if you do, then you are the exception and not the rule. And therein lies the problem.

1.Garrity as I understand it seperates administrative investigations from criminal. It does nothing to keep you from losing your job if you refuse to answer an IA question. You will lose your job.

2. I am not thrilled with supervisors standing by officers for doing stupid or illegal things. I am repulsed by it. Having said that, having been on both sides I will tend to not agree as often with many citizens that a certain action was stupid or illegal given all the available facts. Astonishingly I will tend to not agree with many of the public when they want to give a pass to an officer because they believe officers should be given free passes because their job is tough or they believe them all heros and good guys.

3. I can't recall saying all is good and that the internal process of discipline always works. I don't believe all is good so I can't imagine saying that.

4. I can only speak for my departments system and I have to strongly disagree with your assessment based on my experience with our system. However I don't believe the majority of departments have the same checks and balances we have and therefore are more prone to some of the allegations you put forth. I think that sometimes things are down played. I think there are some corrupt cops. I think we disagree on the "many". Based on my experience, 99% of the cops are good people trying to do a good job with a thousand rules and laws, with a criminal system that makes it very difficult to catch the bad guys. What we both seem to agree on is there is NO place in law enforcement for bullies, criminals and arrogant assholes.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1645 on: June 09, 2014, 02:09:04 PM »

How is that different with anybody else?  If I witness somebody shooting somebody else, I can't claim 5th amendment rights and not talk.

If I'm accused of a crime I can plead the 5th, but so can you.

If you're forced to choose between self-incrimination and losing your job, the Garrity rule prevents any of your statements from being used against you.

Me thinks, you're trying to be dishonest once again.


Nice of you to ignore the question as to why cops should have a cool down period but nobody else should.  ::)

Again, Garrity protects what you say to IA from being used against you criminally.. not administratively. If you do not answer every question IA asks you, you will be fired. No ifs, ands or butts.. This is more you not understanding the concept than me being dishonest..

As far as why cops should have a cool down period and nobody else should, I thougt I answered it but here goes.

Everyone else in the world can refuse to talk to the cops. They have a built in 72 hrs. They have a built in "never"... So it is not a "nobody else should" issue

The cop cannot refuse to talk to the investigators (cops). They are required to on condition of employment. So they are given a 72 hr period to collect their thoughts, calm down, review their evidence before they give a statement so that the investigators get the best accurate statement possible. Because that officer will be held to that statement via fine tooth comb   

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1646 on: June 12, 2014, 11:43:55 AM »
 :o



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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1647 on: June 12, 2014, 01:38:32 PM »
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Obama administration has been quietly advising local police not to disclose details about surveillance technology they are using to sweep up basic cellphone data from entire neighborhoods, The Associated Press has learned.

Citing security reasons, the U.S. has intervened in routine state public records cases and criminal trials regarding use of the technology. This has resulted in police departments withholding materials or heavily censoring documents in rare instances when they disclose any about the purchase and use of such powerful surveillance equipment.

Federal involvement in local open records proceedings is unusual. It comes at a time when President Barack Obama has said he welcomes a debate on government surveillance and called for more transparency about spying in the wake of disclosures about classified federal surveillance programs.

One well-known type of this surveillance equipment is known as a Stingray, an innovative way for law enforcement to track cellphones used by suspects and gather evidence. The equipment tricks cellphones into identifying their owners' account information and transmitting data to police as if it were a phone company's tower. That allows police to obtain cellphone information without having to ask for help from service providers, such as Verizon or AT&T, and can locate a phone without the user even making a call or sending a text message.

But without more details about how the technology works and under what circumstances it's used, it's unclear whether the technology might violate a person's constitutional rights or whether it's a good investment of taxpayer dollars.

Interviews, court records and public-records requests show the Obama administration is asking agencies to withhold common information about the equipment, such as how the technology is used and how to turn it on. That pushback has come in the form of FBI affidavits and consultation in local criminal cases.

"These extreme secrecy efforts are in relation to very controversial, local government surveillance practices using highly invasive technology," said Nathan Freed Wessler, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, which has fought for the release of these types of records. "If public participation means anything, people should have the facts about what the government is doing to them."

Harris Corp., a key manufacturer of this equipment, built a secrecy element into its authorization agreement with the Federal Communications Commission in 2011. That authorization has an unusual requirement: that local law enforcement "coordinate with the FBI the acquisition and use of the equipment." Companies like Harris need FCC authorization in order to sell wireless equipment that could interfere with radio frequencies.

A spokesman from Harris Corp. said the company will not discuss its products for the Defense Department and law enforcement agencies, although public filings showed government sales of communications systems such as the Stingray accounted for nearly one-third of its $5 billion in revenue. "As a government contractor, our solutions are regulated and their use is restricted," spokesman Jim Burke said.

Local police agencies have been denying access to records about this surveillance equipment under state public records laws. Agencies in San Diego, Chicago and Oakland County, Michigan, for instance, declined to tell the AP what devices they purchased, how much they cost and with whom they shared information. San Diego police released a heavily censored purchasing document. Oakland officials said police-secrecy exemptions and attorney-client privilege keep their hands tied. It was unclear whether the Obama administration interfered in the AP requests.

"It's troubling to think the FBI can just trump the state's open records law," said Ginger McCall, director of the open government project at the Electronic Privacy Information Center. McCall suspects the surveillance would not pass constitutional muster.

"The vast amount of information it sweeps in is totally irrelevant to the investigation," she said.

A court case challenging the public release of information from the Tucson Police Department includes an affidavit from an FBI special agent, Bradley Morrison, who said the disclosure would "result in the FBI's inability to protect the public from terrorism and other criminal activity because through public disclosures, this technology has been rendered essentially useless for future investigations."

Morrison said revealing any information about the technology would violate a federal homeland security law about information-sharing and arms-control laws — legal arguments that that outside lawyers and transparency experts said are specious and don't comport with court cases on the U.S. Freedom of Information Act.

The FBI did not answer questions about its role in states' open records proceedings.

But a former Justice Department official said the federal government should be making this argument in federal court, not a state level where different public records laws apply.

"The federal government appears to be attempting to assert a federal interest in the information being sought, but it's going about it the wrong way," said Dan Metcalfe, the former director of the Justice Department's office of information and privacy. Currently Metcalfe is the executive director of American University's law school Collaboration on Government Secrecy project.

A criminal case in Tallahassee cites the same homeland security laws in Morrison's affidavit, court records show, and prosecutors told the court they consulted with the FBI to keep portions of a transcript sealed. That transcript, released earlier this month, revealed that Stingrays "force" cellphones to register their location and identifying information with the police device and enables officers to track calls whenever the phone is on.

One law enforcement official familiar with the Tucson lawsuit, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to speak about internal discussions, said federal lawyers told Tucson police they couldn't hand over a PowerPoint presentation made by local officers about how to operate the Stingray device. Federal officials forwarded Morrison's affidavit for use in the Tucson police department's reply to the lawsuit, rather than requesting the case be moved to federal court.

In Sarasota, Florida, the U.S. Marshals Service confiscated local records on the use of the surveillance equipment, removing the documents from the reach of Florida's expansive open-records law after the ACLU asked under Florida law to see the documents. The ACLU has asked a judge to intervene. The Marshals Service said it deputized the officer as a federal agent and therefore the records weren't accessible under Florida law.

___

Associated Press writer Brendan Farrington in Tallahassee, Florida, contributed to this report.

___

On Twitter, follow Gillum at https://twitter.com/jackgillum and Sullivan at https://twitter.com/esullivanap

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #1648 on: June 19, 2014, 11:10:24 AM »
Shock Claim: Police Officer Slit Dog’s Throat
The Daily Caller ^  | 19 Jun 2014 | Chuck Ross

Posted on ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2014‎ ‎9‎:‎52‎:‎35‎ ‎AM by mandaladon

A Baltimore police officer is facing felony animal cruelty charges after he allegedly slit the throat of a 7 year-old dog that had already been placed under control.

The incident happened Saturday, and Baltimore police officials announced charges against the unnamed officer on Wednesday.

Sarah Gossard’s Shar Pei, Nala, was loose over the weekend when police were called to catch her.

But after using a dog pole to round up Nala, one officer made a shocking move.

“Unfortunately, at some point after the dog was contained, one of our officers used a knife and cut the dog’s throat,” said Baltimore police deputy commissioner Dean Palmere, according to WBAL.

“This is outrageous and unacceptable breach of our protocol,” he said.

Nala’s owner, Sarah Gossard, said that she believes that Nala bit someone but that the officer’s actions were out of line.

“She was just the sweetest dog and would never hurt anyone. She was just scared that day and through all of those events – scared and lost, thirsty, hungry,” Gossard told WBAL.


(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...

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