Push press vs military press / dumbell press

[chaos]

What kind of "content" are you looking for? Its been explained to you a few times now about strength and the abdominal wall, you refuse to accept it because you are unwilling to see any other way. Everyone knows what you are trying to say about direct ab work, but you won't recognize any other points. So what "content" is anyone supposed to use in order to make you understand the point being made? You just keep repeating the same thing about isometrics and flexion and direct ab work, completely blind to the life experiences being handed you.

So if its not a language barrier then you are a totally blind idiot that won't accept anyone elses ideas...I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[Metabolic]

What kind of "content" are you looking for? Its been explained to you a few times now about strength and the abdominal wall, you refuse to accept it because you are unwilling to see any other way. Everyone knows what you are trying to say about direct ab work, but you won't recognize any other points. So what "content" is anyone supposed to use in order to make you understand the point being made? You just keep repeating the same thing about isometrics and flexion and direct ab work, completely blind to the life experiences being handed you.

So if its not a language barrier then you are a totally blind idiot that won't accept anyone elses ideas...I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You are right, I am wrong, can we finish this? Thanks.

[chaos]

PS: there is not a right or wrong here, there are two different things being talked about and you are trying to combine them under a blanket statement.

[Yev33]

PS: there is not a right or wrong here, there are two different things being talked about and you are trying to combine them under a blanket statement.

This is absolutely correct.


The abs have a very limited ROM when it comes to direct abdominal training, so between the squats, deads, OHP, and rows your are pretty much putting a load on the entire range of motion. Not to say that direct abdominal work is useless, I perform it myself, but saying that the function they play during heavy compound movements won't strengthen them is not true.

Now I am not writing this for the sake of an argument or to necessarily change Metabolic's mind, it's because someone might come across this thread and I want them to see the entire picture.

[Donny]

I used to train Abs non stop but in the last few years i just do a few crunches or sit ups and that with Heavy training is all you need. Diet is key and if you have low body fat it does not matter what you do, they will get hard and defined. Who gives a shit about the pretty boy beach look. It's like all the talk you used to hear about sit ups Vs Crunches. yes crunches and rev crunches are good but i have gotten good results from incline sit ups too. I agree that heavy training will strengthen your midsection.

[funk51]

  no words nescessary

[jpm101]

True that movements like squats, DL's, overhead pressing and even curls & lateral raises recruit the Abs (chins/pullups also affect the Abs strongly), but the full potential of the Ab's themselves is not met if only relying on the secondary affects of these exercises. Also the important obliques will need consideration.  This is all accomplished through direct Ab work. Most all Pl'ers & Olympic lifters understand this. Not talking about any marathon style sit ups, leg raises, etc, with endless reps. Treat the Ab exercises within the range of 6 to 10 reps, with perhaps 2 to 3 sets max. With progressive heavier weight each workout, just like any other body part.

The important counter balance to the Abs is a matching strong lower back. Can't have one without the other if full potential, in strength & development, is the goal.  Can be very good insurance against injury and keeping the lower back in a healthy state. Hyper extensions, GM'ings, Romanian DL's may prove worth the time invested in them. These selective exercises have also help many men increase their squatting and Dl abilities very well, when a sticking point was reached. As well as having a noticeable effect on their overhead lifting. With improve Ab & lower back strength, it's like have a built in lifting belt 24/7.

Yev33 mentioned the Ab wheel , which is one of the better pieces of equipment to work the full lower & upper Ab's. Other than a Plank, which may be a little advance for some. . Might also try holding a bar above the head (as in the BP) in the start of a situp position and do your situps or crunches with the added resistance that way. Rope Ab work is also very good. Good Luck.

Funk51: Yes, a picture is indeed worth a thousand words.