Who believes in God?

[OTHstrong]

Really? Let's examine what this other guy (we'll call him Larry) wrote in the same post as yours:


Larry seems to disagree with you... As a matter of fact, that last sentence of his is a moral principle. Smart guy, that Larry.

Finally something we both agree on 

[syntaxmachine]

I don't believe anyone can ever claim anything as being 'moral' or not. Who can say what is or is not? So no, I don't believe in using 'the language of morals'.

With regards to your question, in the big scheme of things (the Universe) I don't believe there exists a right or wrong.
Bacteria wipe-out other bacteria so that their type is stronger. They are living beings, so what's the difference?
Human beings have self-awareness and intelligence, so I think its more for practical purposes that such actions should be prevented.
We're smart enough not to want such actions on ourselves so therefore should not tolerate it happening to others either.

I think the world would be a better place if people were more concerned about how they themselves would like to be treated instead of whether something has been determined as 'right' or 'wrong' by others. Or even worse, the so-called 'morality' of their actions.

Key to the concepts of morality are their normativity, or ability to tell us what we ought to do, e.g., "wrongness" is an inherent marker for what not to do (pending extreme circumstances). I'm not sure how you can retain the normativity while abolishing the moral concepts (it's possible but I don't want to give the game up); if you can never tell Al Qaeda operatives (or better yet, potential recruits) that what the organization does is "wrong," since there is no such property, how can you ever tell them not to engage in such acts (if their desires are to do so, that is; that means pure "you'll get blown up" utilily arguments won't convince them). How can you even pass judgment?

The principle Larry espoused in the latter part of your post doesn't cut muster; there just is no necessary connection between wanting to be treated a certain way and thus treating others that way. That's why "free riders" are a problem: they benefit from others acting according to Larry's principle without thereby reciprocating in kind. Your not wanting to get killed does not at all entail your not killing, say, Larry for sneaking onto your computer and editing your posts. It especially does not entail your "not tolerating" (the explicit language of Larry's post) somebody else punishing Larry for some reason or other. How could you ever counter the free riders without something to the effect of saying what they are doing is wrong?

[Radical Plato]

Are you fucken stupid or something, do you know how to read, I said my nephew not me.

I was talking about your nephew!

[OTHstrong]

I was talking about your nephew!

So now you are disrespecting someones family on here, scum.

[SomeKindofMonster]

Yes, I believe in God.
I'm not outspoken about it but if someone wants
to discuss it I don't mind as long as it's civil.
I 1st believed by faith at 10 but also felt a strong
presence of Love that was beyond my self.

As far as proof, you would need to discount millions
of seemingly supernatural occurrences by millions of people
over the centuries.

I had a friend who was the real deal when it came to living his faith.
He had at least 2 bulging hernias that had been diagnosed by his
doctor and the operation would be very expensive. BTW - I felt
them myself personally except for one that was around his groin area.
He and his wife had an incredible encounter with God by his own words.
Alone, in his house, just them 2, not at Church. He had the hernia bulges for
months and the day after this encounter he and his wife had, they were completely
gone in one night. He wasn't praying for them to be gone, it just happened because of this
experience and the doctor was baffled.

Here's a long incredible story if you want to take the time to read it.
It's by Arthur Blessitt who has carried a cross around the world. He just wears old blue jeans
and T-shirts and is not a TV preacher although he's spoken many times on TV.
This story could be made up, embellished ect, but Arthur has had a repretation as the real deal.
A true man of God. You can decide for yourself if you believe it or not.
BTW - He has all the books he's written for free on his web site.

This is part of a story of when he was carrying his cross in a foreign country.

The civil war in Nicaragua was raging at the time, the Sandinistas' popular guerilla movement against the Somoza government dictatorship. It was a horrible and bloody war. Terror was everywhere.

"I never run,"' I said. "We will sleep where we stop with the cross. I have learned you never run. You must face fear and overcome it, or it will haunt you."

The old man who had spoken made the sign of the cross as we parked the truck and trailer under a tree. It is very uncommon for us to park under a tree, because birds often park in them.

We opened some cold canned food, ate and soon we were in bed. Mike was in the front bed, and I was at the back on the bottom, and Don at the back on the top bunk. I was too exhausted to think. I went sound asleep just after I lay down. The night was hot and I was wet with sweat. A loud banging on the side of the trailer and the loud voice of a man yelling, “Narcotica policia” woke me. I shook my head, sitting up in bed, and pulled back the window curtain to look out. A gun was in my face.

"Narcotica policia!"

I turned on the light, slipped into my pants and opened the door. There were guns pointed at me. One short, middle aged man put a pistol directly in my face, pushing me back and stepping in.

All were in khakis or blue jeans and plain shirts. Several had mustaches and most were in their late teens or early twenties. Several came into the trailer and looked around as if they were going to buy it. Don did not say a word, even though he spoke Spanish. Mike was sitting up in bed wondering what was going on. He could not find his glasses.

"What's happening Arthur, what's going on with all these guys?" he asked sleepily.

"Pray, Mike. Pray."

The short man waved his pistol toward the door. They took me by the shoulder and arm and as I started out I reached up and grabbed the truck keys. This was simply on an impulse, for no particular reason except maybe I thought they might want the truck and they could have it.

There wasn't a doubt these were not narcotics police. The people would later say they were government troops, the government would say there were guerillas. Never mind who, the problem was terror on the roads to rob, to kill and to terrorize the land.

I began to witness in the little Spanish I knew. "Dios te ama. (God loves you) Jesus will forgive you and come to live in your heart."

No one seemed to hear my words. I could see seven men with rifles and pistols, plus two more lying on the back of the truck with machine guns protecting the others. It was a clear night and beautiful. Maybe they want to rob us, I thought, but no. They took me beside the truck and stood me there with orders not to move. They lined up about 15 feet away, raised their guns and pointed them toward me. Suddenly I realized they were going to shoot me. I was standing before a firing squad.

The cross was on top of the truck and difficult to get to. Now, this is what flashed through my mind. If I'm going to die I don't want to die without a Bible. The guns were all aimed at me as I suddenly turned to the right, took about two quick steps and reached to put the key in the truck keyhole. I did it on the first try. I was thinking, even if they shoot me I think I can get the door open before I die and grab a box of Bibles. The men were screaming, "No, no!"

I swung the door open, raised the front seat and grabbed a box of Bibles. The gunmen had no way to know what I was getting or doing. Only God knows why they didn't shoot, but my thought was, if I'm going to die, what does it matter whether I get it from the front or from the back?

I set the box of Bibles on the ground and tried to get it open. It was bound with strong corded tape which made it almost impossible to get open. I could see the feet of the men around me and feel their pull on my shoulder trying to get me up. After getting an opening in the box of American Society Bibles, I thought I'd give them all a Bible too, filling my arms as I stood up. No one was there!

What's happening, I wondered. The glory of God was present, and then I saw the unbelievable. All the gunmen were on the ground, fiat on their backs. The short man who seemed to be the commander was lying inside the trailer with only his feet and legs sticking out. As I walked toward them they began to slowly get up in a daze. The man at the door now sat collecting himself.

I said in Spanish, "Do you want a Bible?"

"We won't bother you," he said.

I grabbed a water bottle and offered them water. All of them jumped up and raced away into the night with no truck lights turned on. I stood in silence. What had happened? It was all so fast!
As I walked into the trailer Don said, "We thought you were dead."

"They were going to kill me, shoot me," I said. "But I opened the truck and got some Bibles. When I looked up the men were on the ground."

"Arthur, we could hear the blows of meat against meat. We thought they were killing you. Then we heard them yell '0-o-o-oh' and they came falling back. One of the men fell into the doorway."

We sat up talking and talking. At dawn as I prepared to leave, carrying the cross down the highway, the people of the houses were there. They were saying, "We saw a bright light. God was here and the gunmen fell to the ground."





  

[Radical Plato]

So now you are disrespecting someones family on here, scum.

It's Getbig - you seem surprised - plus it was your mum who told me about your nephews literacy problem after I finished banging her hard in the arse, just the way she likes it!

[Griffith]

Really? Let's examine what this other guy (we'll call him Larry) wrote in the same post as yours:


Larry seems to disagree with you... As a matter of fact, that last sentence of his is a moral principle. Smart guy, that Larry.

I don't see it as a question of 'morals' but rather of practicality. Some lines have to be drawn to have basic order, otherwise human beings would behave like wild animals, but these lines should be drawn at the lowest possible levels.
It's not about so-called 'morality'.

Anyway, who's to say what is or is not 'moral principles'? The term is just an artificial construct, just like everything else in life.

The point I was making earlier is that how I think things might be and how I want them to be are necessarily the same thing.

[Griffith]

Key to the concepts of morality are their normativity, or ability to tell us what we ought to do, e.g., "wrongness" is an inherent marker for what not to do (pending extreme circumstances). I'm not sure how you can retain the normativity while abolishing the moral concepts (it's possible but I don't want to give the game up); if you can never tell Al Qaeda operatives (or better yet, potential recruits) that what the organization does is "wrong," since there is no such property, how can you ever tell them not to engage in such acts (if their desires are to do so, that is; that means pure "you'll get blown up" utilily arguments won't convince them). How can you even pass judgment?

The principle Larry espoused in the latter part of your post doesn't cut muster; there just is no necessary connection between wanting to be treated a certain way and thus treating others that way. That's why "free riders" are a problem: they benefit from others acting according to Larry's principle without thereby reciprocating in kind. Your not wanting to get killed does not at all entail your not killing, say, Larry for sneaking onto your computer and editing your posts. It especially does not entail your "not tolerating" (the explicit language of Larry's post) somebody else punishing Larry for some reason or other. How could you ever counter the free riders without something to the effect of saying what they are doing is wrong?

It's not a question of 'normativity' but rather practicality.
Even though right or wrong doesn't exist, for purposes of basic order we do unfortunately have to create rules or laws. But it should not have anything to do with 'morality' or whether it is right or wrong.

For practical purposes and for the absolute minimum of laws to exist, the line has to be drawn at the lowest possible level to allow people to have maximum freedom and freedom of association, expression etc.

As I said earlier, what I think the bigger picture of the universe might be and what I think works or how I'd like things to personally be are not necessarily the same thing.

[Griffith]

*double post*

[garebear]

So what has that got to do with a small minority of the world dispossessing the rest of the world of natures Resources - and just because you find value in those creations, they would be seen as a burden or unwanted by others - for me the greatest lesson I ever learnt was chasing money, making as much as I wanted, and then realising that, possessions weren't a blessing, they were a burden and I spent years giving SH!T away as it was nothing but a pain in the arse - I am still trying to give Sh!T away - Nothing is so freeing as living a simple life with few possessions and good simple healthy food - it is a cliche, but the simple things in life are often the best, and there free.

What your talking about is the manipulation of Nature - the creation of things - if people want to turn there share of apples into a pie, thats there business, I just want my apples as well, plus I prefer them RAW!  And ownership is just an illusion - it's like building a sandcastle near the shore - it wont be long before nature reclaims it - people like the concept of private property because it helps provide an illusion of security.  All the great minds know we don't have security, the sands of fortune shift beneath our feet any which way they want, best not to own too much when they do!

Silicon can be used for more than just CPU's, it can also be used in powerful lessons, like this one!

Traditionally sand mandalas are destroyed shortly after their completion. This is done as a metaphor of the impermanence of life.

How about you give away your computer?

[OTHstrong]

It's Getbig - you seem surprised - plus it was your mum who told me about your nephews literacy problem after I finished banging her hard in the arse, just the way she likes it!

Ya, really concerned about the morality of the world, you truely are a man of principle. lame and low class talk right there. You sound like a ghetto bitch.

[Radical Plato]

Ya, really concerned about the morality of the world, you truely are a man of principle. lame and low class talk right there. You sound like a ghetto bitch.

That's why your Mum Loves me, it's the ghetto in me, oh and plus the fact I bang her arse just the way she likes it - oh, and I reserve my compassion for people who deserve it - not offensive GETBIG aRSEHOLES who are clearly oxygen thieves! Hope this helps!

[syntaxmachine]

Yes, I believe in God.
I'm not outspoken about it but if someone wants
to discuss it I don't mind as long as it's civil.
I 1st believed by faith at 10 but also felt a strong
presence of Love that was beyond my self.

As far as proof, you would need to discount millions
of seemingly supernatural occurrences by millions of people
over the centuries.

I had a friend who was the real deal when it came to living his faith.
He had at least 2 bulging hernias that had been diagnosed by his
doctor and the operation would be very expensive. BTW - I felt
them myself personally except for one that was around his groin area.
He and his wife had an incredible encounter with God by his own words.
Alone, in his house, just them 2, not at Church. He had the hernia bulges for
months and the day after this encounter he and his wife had, they were completely
gone in one night. He wasn't praying for them to be gone, it just happened because of this
experience and the doctor was baffled.

Here's a long incredible story if you want to take the time to read it.
It's by Arthur Blessitt who has carried a cross around the world. He just wears old blue jeans
and T-shirts and is not a TV preacher although he's spoken many times on TV.
This story could be made up, embellished ect, but Arthur has had a repretation as the real deal.
A true man of God. You can decide for yourself if you believe it or not.
BTW - He has all the books he's written for free on his web site.

This is part of a story of when he was carrying his cross in a foreign country.

The civil war in Nicaragua was raging at the time, the Sandinistas' popular guerilla movement against the Somoza government dictatorship. It was a horrible and bloody war. Terror was everywhere.

"I never run,"' I said. "We will sleep where we stop with the cross. I have learned you never run. You must face fear and overcome it, or it will haunt you."

The old man who had spoken made the sign of the cross as we parked the truck and trailer under a tree. It is very uncommon for us to park under a tree, because birds often park in them.

We opened some cold canned food, ate and soon we were in bed. Mike was in the front bed, and I was at the back on the bottom, and Don at the back on the top bunk. I was too exhausted to think. I went sound asleep just after I lay down. The night was hot and I was wet with sweat. A loud banging on the side of the trailer and the loud voice of a man yelling, “Narcotica policia” woke me. I shook my head, sitting up in bed, and pulled back the window curtain to look out. A gun was in my face.

"Narcotica policia!"

I turned on the light, slipped into my pants and opened the door. There were guns pointed at me. One short, middle aged man put a pistol directly in my face, pushing me back and stepping in.

All were in khakis or blue jeans and plain shirts. Several had mustaches and most were in their late teens or early twenties. Several came into the trailer and looked around as if they were going to buy it. Don did not say a word, even though he spoke Spanish. Mike was sitting up in bed wondering what was going on. He could not find his glasses.

"What's happening Arthur, what's going on with all these guys?" he asked sleepily.

"Pray, Mike. Pray."

The short man waved his pistol toward the door. They took me by the shoulder and arm and as I started out I reached up and grabbed the truck keys. This was simply on an impulse, for no particular reason except maybe I thought they might want the truck and they could have it.

There wasn't a doubt these were not narcotics police. The people would later say they were government troops, the government would say there were guerillas. Never mind who, the problem was terror on the roads to rob, to kill and to terrorize the land.

I began to witness in the little Spanish I knew. "Dios te ama. (God loves you) Jesus will forgive you and come to live in your heart."

No one seemed to hear my words. I could see seven men with rifles and pistols, plus two more lying on the back of the truck with machine guns protecting the others. It was a clear night and beautiful. Maybe they want to rob us, I thought, but no. They took me beside the truck and stood me there with orders not to move. They lined up about 15 feet away, raised their guns and pointed them toward me. Suddenly I realized they were going to shoot me. I was standing before a firing squad.

The cross was on top of the truck and difficult to get to. Now, this is what flashed through my mind. If I'm going to die I don't want to die without a Bible. The guns were all aimed at me as I suddenly turned to the right, took about two quick steps and reached to put the key in the truck keyhole. I did it on the first try. I was thinking, even if they shoot me I think I can get the door open before I die and grab a box of Bibles. The men were screaming, "No, no!"

I swung the door open, raised the front seat and grabbed a box of Bibles. The gunmen had no way to know what I was getting or doing. Only God knows why they didn't shoot, but my thought was, if I'm going to die, what does it matter whether I get it from the front or from the back?

I set the box of Bibles on the ground and tried to get it open. It was bound with strong corded tape which made it almost impossible to get open. I could see the feet of the men around me and feel their pull on my shoulder trying to get me up. After getting an opening in the box of American Society Bibles, I thought I'd give them all a Bible too, filling my arms as I stood up. No one was there!

What's happening, I wondered. The glory of God was present, and then I saw the unbelievable. All the gunmen were on the ground, fiat on their backs. The short man who seemed to be the commander was lying inside the trailer with only his feet and legs sticking out. As I walked toward them they began to slowly get up in a daze. The man at the door now sat collecting himself.

I said in Spanish, "Do you want a Bible?"

"We won't bother you," he said.

I grabbed a water bottle and offered them water. All of them jumped up and raced away into the night with no truck lights turned on. I stood in silence. What had happened? It was all so fast!
As I walked into the trailer Don said, "We thought you were dead."

"They were going to kill me, shoot me," I said. "But I opened the truck and got some Bibles. When I looked up the men were on the ground."

"Arthur, we could hear the blows of meat against meat. We thought they were killing you. Then we heard them yell '0-o-o-oh' and they came falling back. One of the men fell into the doorway."

We sat up talking and talking. At dawn as I prepared to leave, carrying the cross down the highway, the people of the houses were there. They were saying, "We saw a bright light. God was here and the gunmen fell to the ground."





  

Millions of people 'witness' miracle-like occurrences (including walking on water) on the part of their favorite gurus every single day in India. Take these same guru-witnessing experiences that no one with a brain takes seriously today, export them two thousand years ago into the pre-scientific, superstitious Middle East crawling with Apocalyptic preachers, and have them written about decades after the fact, and suddenly they constitute evidence for your preferred religion. Hmm, does anybody else see a problem with this?

P.S. I think it is better if you stick to particular points of discussion rather than overlong stories almost nobody is going to read.

[Man of Steel]

Yes, I believe in God.
I'm not outspoken about it but if someone wants
to discuss it I don't mind as long as it's civil.
I 1st believed by faith at 10 but also felt a strong
presence of Love that was beyond my self.

As far as proof, you would need to discount millions
of seemingly supernatural occurrences by millions of people
over the centuries.

I had a friend who was the real deal when it came to living his faith.
He had at least 2 bulging hernias that had been diagnosed by his
doctor and the operation would be very expensive. BTW - I felt
them myself personally except for one that was around his groin area.
He and his wife had an incredible encounter with God by his own words.
Alone, in his house, just them 2, not at Church. He had the hernia bulges for
months and the day after this encounter he and his wife had, they were completely
gone in one night. He wasn't praying for them to be gone, it just happened because of this
experience and the doctor was baffled.

Here's a long incredible story if you want to take the time to read it.
It's by Arthur Blessitt who has carried a cross around the world. He just wears old blue jeans
and T-shirts and is not a TV preacher although he's spoken many times on TV.
This story could be made up, embellished ect, but Arthur has had a repretation as the real deal.
A true man of God. You can decide for yourself if you believe it or not.
BTW - He has all the books he's written for free on his web site.

This is part of a story of when he was carrying his cross in a foreign country.

The civil war in Nicaragua was raging at the time, the Sandinistas' popular guerilla movement against the Somoza government dictatorship. It was a horrible and bloody war. Terror was everywhere.

"I never run,"' I said. "We will sleep where we stop with the cross. I have learned you never run. You must face fear and overcome it, or it will haunt you."

The old man who had spoken made the sign of the cross as we parked the truck and trailer under a tree. It is very uncommon for us to park under a tree, because birds often park in them.

We opened some cold canned food, ate and soon we were in bed. Mike was in the front bed, and I was at the back on the bottom, and Don at the back on the top bunk. I was too exhausted to think. I went sound asleep just after I lay down. The night was hot and I was wet with sweat. A loud banging on the side of the trailer and the loud voice of a man yelling, “Narcotica policia” woke me. I shook my head, sitting up in bed, and pulled back the window curtain to look out. A gun was in my face.

"Narcotica policia!"

I turned on the light, slipped into my pants and opened the door. There were guns pointed at me. One short, middle aged man put a pistol directly in my face, pushing me back and stepping in.

All were in khakis or blue jeans and plain shirts. Several had mustaches and most were in their late teens or early twenties. Several came into the trailer and looked around as if they were going to buy it. Don did not say a word, even though he spoke Spanish. Mike was sitting up in bed wondering what was going on. He could not find his glasses.

"What's happening Arthur, what's going on with all these guys?" he asked sleepily.

"Pray, Mike. Pray."

The short man waved his pistol toward the door. They took me by the shoulder and arm and as I started out I reached up and grabbed the truck keys. This was simply on an impulse, for no particular reason except maybe I thought they might want the truck and they could have it.

There wasn't a doubt these were not narcotics police. The people would later say they were government troops, the government would say there were guerillas. Never mind who, the problem was terror on the roads to rob, to kill and to terrorize the land.

I began to witness in the little Spanish I knew. "Dios te ama. (God loves you) Jesus will forgive you and come to live in your heart."

No one seemed to hear my words. I could see seven men with rifles and pistols, plus two more lying on the back of the truck with machine guns protecting the others. It was a clear night and beautiful. Maybe they want to rob us, I thought, but no. They took me beside the truck and stood me there with orders not to move. They lined up about 15 feet away, raised their guns and pointed them toward me. Suddenly I realized they were going to shoot me. I was standing before a firing squad.

The cross was on top of the truck and difficult to get to. Now, this is what flashed through my mind. If I'm going to die I don't want to die without a Bible. The guns were all aimed at me as I suddenly turned to the right, took about two quick steps and reached to put the key in the truck keyhole. I did it on the first try. I was thinking, even if they shoot me I think I can get the door open before I die and grab a box of Bibles. The men were screaming, "No, no!"

I swung the door open, raised the front seat and grabbed a box of Bibles. The gunmen had no way to know what I was getting or doing. Only God knows why they didn't shoot, but my thought was, if I'm going to die, what does it matter whether I get it from the front or from the back?

I set the box of Bibles on the ground and tried to get it open. It was bound with strong corded tape which made it almost impossible to get open. I could see the feet of the men around me and feel their pull on my shoulder trying to get me up. After getting an opening in the box of American Society Bibles, I thought I'd give them all a Bible too, filling my arms as I stood up. No one was there!

What's happening, I wondered. The glory of God was present, and then I saw the unbelievable. All the gunmen were on the ground, fiat on their backs. The short man who seemed to be the commander was lying inside the trailer with only his feet and legs sticking out. As I walked toward them they began to slowly get up in a daze. The man at the door now sat collecting himself.

I said in Spanish, "Do you want a Bible?"

"We won't bother you," he said.

I grabbed a water bottle and offered them water. All of them jumped up and raced away into the night with no truck lights turned on. I stood in silence. What had happened? It was all so fast!
As I walked into the trailer Don said, "We thought you were dead."

"They were going to kill me, shoot me," I said. "But I opened the truck and got some Bibles. When I looked up the men were on the ground."

"Arthur, we could hear the blows of meat against meat. We thought they were killing you. Then we heard them yell '0-o-o-oh' and they came falling back. One of the men fell into the doorway."

We sat up talking and talking. At dawn as I prepared to leave, carrying the cross down the highway, the people of the houses were there. They were saying, "We saw a bright light. God was here and the gunmen fell to the ground."





  

FYI ~ the atheists on Getbig care nothing for any personal, religious experience you've had or your family/friends have had.  If it doesn't come in a test tube or is peer-reviewed in a medical journal and is able to be replicated it means nothing to them.  They'll quote every other world religion and all the miracles they also claim to experience in order to keep you quiet.  The Christian God is just one of many in a series of theistic nonsense for them.  Why are the "miracles of Christ" that can't be proven different from the miralces in India or of Allah?  I've shared my own experiences and simply receive such replies as "prove it" (despite the fact I am the proof) or "the fluctuations in brain waves you have during your religious experiences can be replicated in the lab with drugs....there's nothing unique about them."  

Me, I read what you posted and thought it was cool!

[SF1900]

FYI ~ the atheists on Getbig care nothing for any personal, religious experience you've had or your family/friends have had.  If it doesn't come in a test tube or is peer-reviewed in a medical journal and is able to be replicated it means nothing to them.  They'll quote every other world religion and all the miracles they also claim to experience in order to keep you quiet.  The Christian God is just one of many in a series of theistic nonsense for them.  Why are the "miracles of Christ" that can't be proven different from the miralces in India or of Allah?  I've shared my own experiences and simply receive such replies as "prove it" (despite the fact I am the proof) or "the fluctuations in brain waves you have during your religious experiences can be replicated in the lab with drugs....there's nothing unique about them."  

Me, I read what you posted and thought it was cool!

Heaven forbid (no pun intended) that we ask for proof. If we lived the way you lived (just accept everything that everyone says) we may as well just disregard all things related to science. I mean, who cares about looking for evidence when it comes to engineering, medicine, chemistry, etc  Lets just accept whatever someone says because it sounds nice and comfy 

And "you" being the proof is nowhere considered proof of a diety. Anecdoatal evidence is the least relaible evidence.

[garebear]

Heaven forbid (no pun intended) that we ask for proof. If we lived the way you lived (just accept everything that everyone says) we may as well just disregard all things related to science. I mean, who cares about looking for evidence when it comes to engineering, medicine, chemistry, etc  Lets just accept whatever someone says because it sounds nice and comfy 

And "you" being the proof is nowhere considered proof of a diety. Anecdoatal evidence is the least relaible evidence.

Good post.

When I was very young, I was convinced that I had "the force" from Star Wars.

Should everyone accept it? I swear it was true for me.

[Man of Steel]

Heaven forbid (no pun intended) that we ask for proof. If we lived the way you lived (just accept everything that everyone says) we may as well just disregard all things related to science. I mean, who cares about looking for evidence when it comes to engineering, medicine, chemistry, etc   Lets just accept whatever someone says because it sounds nice and comfy  

And "you" being the proof is nowhere considered proof of a diety. Anecdoatal evidence is the least relaible evidence.

LOL!!  You won't hear this type of response from me often, but I'm just not in the mood today.  That said....just save it...heard it all before and could've typed your response for you.  FYI ~ I have heard of science,  I have heard of education,  I have read a book other than the bible, no I don't believe in Easter bunny or Santa Claus and I do require evidence in order for things to deemed factual.  

I was providing some insight for a fellow believer, your "additional notes" weren't required.

[SF1900]

LOL!!  You won't hear this type of response from me often, but I'm just not in the mood today.  That said....just save it...heard it all before and could've typed your response for you.  FYI ~ I have heard of science,  I have heard of education,  I have read a book other than the bible, no I don't believe in Easter bunny or Santa Claus and I do require evidence in order for things to deemed factual.  

I was providing some insight for a fellow believer, your "additional notes" weren't required.

Obviously you don't because God has just as much proof as Santa or the Easter Bunny, yet you believe in God and not Santa. Does not sound too logical to me.

[SF1900]

LOL!!  You won't hear this type of response from me often, but I'm just not in the mood today.  That said....just save it...heard it all before and could've typed your response for you.  FYI ~ I have heard of science,  I have heard of education,  I have read a book other than the bible, no I don't believe in Easter bunny or Santa Claus and I do require evidence in order for things to deemed factual.  

I was providing some insight for a fellow believer, your "additional notes" weren't required.

Basically, saying "you've heard it all" means you don't have a leg to stand on. Next, you'll be telling me to be more open minded. 

[Agnostic007]

LOL!!  You won't hear this type of response from me often, but I'm just not in the mood today.  That said....just save it...heard it all before and could've typed your response for you.  FYI ~ I have heard of science,  I have heard of education,  I have read a book other than the bible, no I don't believe in Easter bunny or Santa Claus and I do require evidence in order for things to deemed factual.  

People like you, and I'll use my brother for example as I respect him tremendously, I can sort of understand. I don't wish to put words in your mouth so I will speak in general terms when I say you've experienced something personal that leads you to believe what you do. My brother has tried to convince me that there is evidence to support his belief in God and that I should believe as well. He offers the usual stuff from the bible which I discard for various reasons that I explain to him. Then he will offer personal experiences. I listen politely and explain that IF those things happened to me perhaps I would believe. But since they haven't and I only have his testimony to go on, it is much harder for it to have the same impact on me. Personal testimony in such things as the supernatural carry little weight if any among non believers as you already know. But I don't hold it against people who claim to have have experienced such things and believe... As long as they don't hold it against me for requiring something more than their testimony before I accept it as gospel.  

[garebear]

LOL!!  You won't hear this type of response from me often, but I'm just not in the mood today.  That said....just save it...heard it all before and could've typed your response for you.  FYI ~ I have heard of science,  I have heard of education,  I have read a book other than the bible, no I don't believe in Easter bunny or Santa Claus and I do require evidence in order for things to deemed factual.  

I was providing some insight for a fellow believer, your "additional notes" weren't required.

Hey, bro. You're a cool guy on here. I respect what you post. 

What really angers me about religious people is when they try to enfoce their worldview on others.

In all fairness, I've never seen you do that.

I wish you the best.

[Man of Steel]

People like you, and I'll use my brother for example as I respect him tremendously, I can sort of understand. I don't wish to put words in your mouth so I will speak in general terms when I say you've experienced something personal that leads you to believe what you do. My brother has tried to convince me that there is evidence to support his belief in God and that I should believe as well. He offers the usual stuff from the bible which I discard for various reasons that I explain to him. Then he will offer personal experiences. I listen politely and explain that IF those things happened to me perhaps I would believe. But since they haven't and I only have his testimony to go on, it is much harder for it to have the same impact on me. Personal testimony in such things as the supernatural carry little weight if any among non believers as you already know. But I don't hold it against people who claim to have have experienced such things and believe... As long as they don't hold it against me for requiring something more than their testimony before I accept it as gospel.   

I hear you, I understand completely and agree with you 100%. 

Believe it or not, even I grow quite weary of the same repeat, novice conclusions about believers.  Conclusions such as: I find no value in scientific disciplines, I find no value in scientific discoveries, that I don't understand that some people require more proof in order to be convinced of something than others, that I've only read the bible, etc....ad nauseum....all the same repetitive generalizations!!!  You hear them a dozen times...ok fine.   You hear them two dozen times....ok fine.  I've heard them so many times LOL....I don't even know how many times.  Virtually every nonbelieving pseudointellectual on Getbig and other boards leads with these same statements LOL.  These same snap judgements can be fired at any given time throughout "a discussion"....pardon me, but I don't have patience for it today.  And supposedly I'm super dense LOL!!  Ok, off my soapbox now. 

Granted, those I've spoken with most often....you, avxo, syntaxmachine, magoo, etc....know my position so those types of generalizations are beneath that group.  But it's the randoms (ex: SF1900) who are never apart of the discussion or on the religious board and jump in midstream in a random religion thread on the G&O that for some reason hasn't yet been moved to the religion board that capriciously throw their hat in the ring that can wear on me some days.  Most days I just ignore the posts and let them catch up on their own.   

[Man of Steel]

Hey, bro. You're a cool guy on here. I respect what you post. 

What really angers me about religious people is when they try to enfoce their worldview on others.

In all fairness, I've never seen you do that.

I wish you the best.

I sincerely appreciate that!  Means a lot (all homo). 

[OTHstrong]

That's why your Mum Loves me, it's the ghetto in me, oh and plus the fact I bang her arse just the way she likes it - oh, and I reserve my compassion for people who deserve it - not offensive GETBIG aRSEHOLES who are clearly oxygen thieves! Hope this helps!

Well, when you start talking about people's mom, lol,... you admit defeat, you no longer have an intelligent argument, everyone here is making you look pretty stupid. Not really hard to do though.

[syntaxmachine]

FYI ~ the atheists on Getbig care nothing for any personal, religious experience you've had or your family/friends have had.  If it doesn't come in a test tube or is peer-reviewed in a medical journal and is able to be replicated it means nothing to them.

I won't speak for other atheists here as atheists can disagree among themselves on everything, including their reason(s) for being atheists. I will say that while science is extremely important for establishing a justifiable worldview, it isn't everything. I am constantly babbling about logical matters on here, and no law of logic will ever be placed into a test tube. Ergo your representation of the irreligious on here isn't fair. Reason operates independently of science despite being essential for it.

I've shared my own experiences and simply receive such replies as "prove it" (despite the fact I am the proof) or "the fluctuations in brain waves you have during your religious experiences can be replicated in the lab with drugs....there's nothing unique about them."  

No one asked you for "proof" of anything. The point was raised that people around the world have the very same experience, except with different content to their experience. If everybody's religious experience were of Christ then we would have an argument for something like  your view. As you keep overlooking, however Christianity is a minority view whose content is not in the majority of peoples' religious experiences. Hence , the experience in question cannot be evidence for one particular sort of content as there is too much widely divergent content that goes along with that experience. The experience as such is either evidence of all of the divergent content (Christ, Buddha, Vishnu, becoming one with the universe, etc.) or none of it.

I happen to go with the 'none of the above' option.

P.S. In all of this you still haven't provided a single reason for supposing Christianity is correct. I kind of feel bad because I already know all of the most plausible ones. But I want to know how actual Christians think, not just those ensconsed in academic philosophy. Since there aren't any actual reasons being offered, the only explanation is that complex pyschological factors are at work (e.g., adopting specific beliefs to meet certain psychological needs). I would love to be 'proven' (shown, have it indicated to me, or whatever other word you prefer) to be wrong, however.