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Author Topic: Who believes in God?  (Read 14400 times)
Onetimehard
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« Reply #400 on: August 09, 2012, 11:38:50 AM »

Old Testament:
For instance that a father could sell his daughter into slavery if she disobeyed him.
Moses being told by God to kill everyone from one of the neighbouring tribes, including all women and children.
Public stoning of adulterers, witches etc.
Animal sacrifice.
The killing of priests who made any errors in the temple of the Ark of the Covenant.

I see this site lists quite a few examples: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Not trying to be derogatory or anything, I'm genuinely interested how the two books can be reconciled.
Again, read your history.....
Every nation on the planet gave birth to their nation this way, there is no other way. This was not only the norm for every nation on the planet but very necessary or else the nation would not survive, period. What you wrote above is the only way a nation can strive and grow throw obedience and harsh laws other wise it would simply fall apart.

Moses is bringing nearly a million people into enemy territory, to go forward is to war by the 100 000's , there is no other option, any military commander knows that the soldiers are driven through their spiritual beliefs and to have a tribe rebel could literally destroy the entire nation. What Moses did to disintegrate the rebellion is no different then what any other nation or military commander would do in his shoes
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« Reply #401 on: August 09, 2012, 11:47:31 AM »

I know that, but this is human behaviour.

God is supposed to be superior to petty human emotions, thought and logic.
I don't know about you but if a tribe practices satanic rituals and has such practices as to have every single family kill their first born at the age of 3 but not only kill him but burn him alive, then have every single man give up his wife to the tribal leader before he marries her, then destroy neighbors in very cruel manner, pillage, murder, rape, and drink blood, brother these people need to be completely wiped out off the face of the earth before they spread their destructive ways.
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« Reply #402 on: August 09, 2012, 02:08:42 PM »

Again, read your history.....
Every nation on the planet gave birth to their nation this way, there is no other way. This was not only the norm for every nation on the planet but very necessary or else the nation would not survive, period. What you wrote above is the only way a nation can strive and grow throw obedience and harsh laws other wise it would simply fall apart.

Moses is bringing nearly a million people into enemy territory, to go forward is to war by the 100 000's , there is no other option, any military commander knows that the soldiers are driven through their spiritual beliefs and to have a tribe rebel could literally destroy the entire nation. What Moses did to disintegrate the rebellion is no different then what any other nation or military commander would do in his shoes

I agree with you 100% here.
If you put religion out of it, from a practical perspective, it would be the only way to go to ensure survival of a small and heavily outnumbered tribe.
I agree that Moses did what was necessary considering what was at stake, that one mistake could lead to all the people under his command being wiped out or enslaved yet again.


And by the way, good post earlier.
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« Reply #403 on: August 09, 2012, 02:17:15 PM »

I don't know about you but if a tribe practices satanic rituals and has such practices as to have every single family kill their first born at the age of 3 but not only kill him but burn him alive, then have every single man give up his wife to the tribal leader before he marries her, then destroy neighbors in very cruel manner, pillage, murder, rape, and drink blood, brother these people need to be completely wiped out off the face of the earth before they spread their destructive ways.

I see where you're coming from with this post and the previous one.

Admittedly, from a practical perspective you do make a good case.
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« Reply #404 on: August 09, 2012, 02:31:06 PM »

I agree with you 100% here.
If you put religion out of it, from a practical perspective, it would be the only way to go to ensure survival of a small and heavily outnumbered tribe.
I agree that Moses did what was necessary considering what was at stake, that one mistake could lead to all the people under his command being wiped out or enslaved yet again.


And by the way, good post earlier.
It's a heavy burden, but there is an old saying in war "If one ember is left alight, the entire forest can burn" so better to wipe out the whole tribe you conquered unfortunately.

This was the way until the Babylonian exile in around 570 BC, by this time there were established professions and designated city centers all over the globe. So instead of slaughtering everyone, The Babylonians simply exiled all the politicians, teachers, and all the high class, the rich, and the talented. Basically leaving the uneducated and the poor only. This method allowed them to further conquest lands without slaughtering the Woman and children. Of course the Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans followed the same methods.

 I can't imagine living in those days, all I can say is Humans are a cruel species
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« Reply #405 on: August 09, 2012, 03:17:17 PM »

It's a heavy burden, but there is an old saying in war "If one ember is left alight, the entire forest can burn" so better to wipe out the whole tribe you conquered unfortunately.

This was the way until the Babylonian exile in around 570 BC, by this time there were established professions and designated city centers all over the globe. So instead of slaughtering everyone, The Babylonians simply exiled all the politicians, teachers, and all the high class, the rich, and the talented. Basically leaving the uneducated and the poor only. This method allowed them to further conquest lands without slaughtering the Woman and children. Of course the Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans followed the same methods.

 I can't imagine living in those days, all I can say is Humans are a cruel species

Plus, you have to consider God's act of mercy for those children not yet old or mature enough to make a decision to serve God or not.  Yes, men, women and children were put to death, but those children that perished took their last breathe on earth and their first breathe in eternity with the father.  Had they been allowed to continue on earth they would've maintained the "traditions" of their elders and completely forsaken God and spent an eternity without him.  God used the Isralites to to both eliminate an evil, sadistic cult and mercifully save their young, unaccountable children.   "But they murdered children?!!"  What's more merciful?  Prolonging their lives to engage in several decades of inevitable evil here on earth leading to a decision to be eternally separated from God or calling them home with the father for eternity via a brief moment on earth?
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« Reply #406 on: August 10, 2012, 05:27:33 AM »

I wrote a boring post and deleted it.
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« Reply #407 on: August 10, 2012, 08:30:46 AM »

People need to focus more on history to have a fair perspective of the old testament. What people fail to realize is the time in which the old testament took place was by no means civilized, in fact it was very disturbing and chaotic, very satanic and demonic.

You could not travel unless you where with a caravan full of soldiers, be caught on the road by yourself and consider yourself raped and tortured.

You have a group of dead bodies impaled in front of the city wall and you have another group of heads stuck on spike, public execution was a daily occurrence; flayed, stoned, boiled, beheaded, you name it.

You have wars every single year and it wasn't only soldiers, when your city got raided, men, woman, and children would get beaten, tortured, and killed. Actually babies would get smashed against the wall or thrown off balconies.

Many nations and tribes practice sacrificial rituals, often the person sacrificed would be burnt alive or buried alive and most sacrifices where children.

Death Sentences included being fed to animals, being stretched limb to limb, ah and how about getting honey poured on you and getting 5000 bees sting you to death.

God cruel?  I think it's an understatement to say he was justified in every action he took in the old testament

Sounds like modern day American occupied IRAQ
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« Reply #408 on: August 10, 2012, 08:52:50 AM »

Sounds like modern day American occupied IRAQ

Now that you mention it...
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« Reply #409 on: August 10, 2012, 05:00:54 PM »

Sounds like modern day American occupied IRAQ
lol., funny how you and I are always going against each other on this perspective; the same guys on here that defend the US, such as shockwave and crew are arguing the point that it was necessary to drop the bomb on Nagaski on another thread. Just to make it clear, even though I think America is not as savage as you make them out to seem at the present time, I will always be against what they did to Japan.

It was not a war strategy, in fact it was a war crime, very demonic and out right psychotic. It doesn`t matter if it stopped the war, you CAN NOT  attack civilians come hell or high waters, how anyone can say it was a good idea is beyond me.
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« Reply #410 on: August 10, 2012, 06:11:25 PM »

Old Testament:
For instance that a father could sell his daughter into slavery if she disobeyed him.
Moses being told by God to kill everyone from one of the neighbouring tribes, including all women and children.
Public stoning of adulterers, witches etc.
Animal sacrifice.
The killing of priests who made any errors in the temple of the Ark of the Covenant.

I see this site lists quite a few examples: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Not trying to be derogatory or anything, I'm genuinely interested how the two books can be reconciled.

Sorry couldn't respond until today....busy, busy.....anyhow, I jumped in briefly yesterday and commented on your second point in another post concerning the Israelites being commanded by God to destroy neighboring tribes. 

As far as the reference to slavery I had a couple of questions first.  Which verse are you referring to?  When the scriptures refer to "slavery" in Israel what do you believe is being permitted?  Slavery from the pre-Civil War south in US?  Slavery like that which the Israelites were delivered from in Egypt?  Or is it more like "the bible approves of slavery...SLAVERY...enou gh said!"?

Adulterers and witches being stoned I relate to Christ's relationship with his body of believers or his "marriage to the church".  One of the most painful experiences in any relationship can be brought about by adultery.  The Israelites made a covenant with God and in doing so were to distinguish themselves in every way from the world around them according to God's holy, divine standards.  Those engaging in adulterous relationships have damaged the holy union under God and it's apparent how seriously God considers that union and how union is symbolic of his union with his church.  Similarly with witchcraft/mediums/sorcery, this act is considered demonic and idolatrous....it is simply not of God and absolutely in opposition of God and completely defies the covenant made with God.  The covenant was not made with any other person/being other than God so engaging in witchcraft which promotes worship of false Gods and idols and Satanic activity completely destroys  the relationship with God.  The penalty of death seems extreme to most, but it certainly drives home God's serious, serious treatment of these covenant defying acts.

Life is in the blood and the wages of our sin is death.  In order for the Israelites to reconcile themselves with God a blood sacrifice via animal sacrifices was required.   Christ established a new covenant and became the ultimate sacrifice for all eliminating the need for further bloodshed.

The death penalty for priests in the Israelite temple does seem extreme, but this is the place that absolute ruler, owner and creator of the universe would reside and God is without flaw or fault and is absolutely holy.  Very specific instructions were given to preserve that divine status within the moving temple and to keep man aligned with that standard of divinity while in direct service of God; further, the penalty for not following clear instruction was well known.  In essence, priests knew exactly what they were responsible for regardless of the severity of punishment for certain acts.

Iím sure others can add to my thoughts and present them better than Iím able to.
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« Reply #411 on: August 11, 2012, 03:53:25 AM »

lol., funny how you and I are always going against each other on this perspective; the same guys on here that defend the US, such as shockwave and crew are arguing the point that it was necessary to drop the bomb on Nagaski on another thread. Just to make it clear, even though I think America is not as savage as you make them out to seem at the present time, I will always be against what they did to Japan.

It was not a war strategy, in fact it was a war crime, very demonic and out right psychotic. It doesn`t matter if it stopped the war, you CAN NOT  attack civilians come hell or high waters, how anyone can say it was a good idea is beyond me.

Agreed, it was a despotic vengeful demonstration that ended the war without a doubt and maybe potentially saved enormous potential allied deaths (although I think the Japanese were ready to surrender before the bomb), plus the Japanese Soldiers were no saints, but I can't imagine a plausible justification for the mass killing of so many innocent civilians in such devastating fashion.  The fallout from the bomb was incomprehensible, and considering America condemned the holocaust, it appears shockingly hypocritical to use nuclear weapons to cause a similar amount of devastation.  I am no historian, but Pearl Habour pales in comparison to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.  It seems that America likes to up the ante by ten fold when under threat or during war, it's like their attitude is "You call that aggression and terrorism, well check out this aggression and terrorism and then they unleash unholy hell rather than finding the most humanist and diplomatic approach that sees them win with minimal civilian suffering.  Maybe I am too idealistic, but surely humans can do better!
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« Reply #412 on: August 11, 2012, 04:23:18 AM »

Agreed, it was a despotic vengeful demonstration that ended the war without a doubt and maybe potentially saved enormous potential allied deaths (although I think the Japanese were ready to surrender before the bomb), plus the Japanese Soldiers were no saints, but I can't imagine a plausible justification for the mass killing of so many innocent civilians in such devastating fashion.  The fallout from the bomb was incomprehensible, and considering America condemned the holocaust, it appears shockingly hypocritical to use nuclear weapons to cause a similar amount of devastation.  I am no historian, but Pearl Habour pales in comparison to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.  It seems that America likes to up the ante by ten fold when under threat or during war, it's like their attitude is "You call that aggression and terrorism, well check out this aggression and terrorism and then they unleash unholy hell rather than finding the most humanist and diplomatic approach that sees them win with minimal civilian suffering.  Maybe I am too idealistic, but surely humans can do better!
Without hesitation, I agree with this part of your post.

Look, you've just got it out for America. Im not sure why, but that's your thing.

If you ever have an objective thought, please let us know.

OF FUCKING COURSE Pearl Harbor and the A bomb are not the same thing. To pretend they are directly related, in a tit for tat sense, is so absurd that it proves you have no interest in antyhing but America-bashing. Did they happen on consecutive days?
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« Reply #413 on: August 11, 2012, 05:43:13 AM »

Without hesitation, I agree with this part of your post.

Look, you've just got it out for America. Im not sure why, but that's your thing.

If you ever have an objective thought, please let us know.

OF FUCKING COURSE Pearl Harbor and the A bomb are not the same thing. To pretend they are directly related, in a tit for tat sense, is so absurd that it proves you have no interest in antyhing but America-bashing. Did they happen on consecutive days?
Without hesitation, I agree with this part of your post. The two events are related, America entered the war after the attack on Pearl Habor and it has been suggested that using Nukes on Japan was most certainly paypack as well as a certain end to the conflict.  Oh, by the way, I'm not the only one who wants to see America fall, there are about 3 billion other people on the planet who couldn't care less if America fall of the face of the Earth! 
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« Reply #414 on: August 14, 2012, 11:10:16 AM »

Without hesitation, I agree with this part of your post. The two events are related, America entered the war after the attack on Pearl Habor and it has been suggested that using Nukes on Japan was most certainly paypack as well as a certain end to the conflict.  Oh, by the way, I'm not the only one who wants to see America fall, there are about 3 billion other people on the planet who couldn't care less if America fall of the face of the Earth! 

fuck off.... seriously
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« Reply #415 on: August 15, 2012, 07:38:11 AM »

Without hesitation, I agree with this part of your post. The two events are related, America entered the war after the attack on Pearl Habor and it has been suggested that using Nukes on Japan was most certainly paypack as well as a certain end to the conflict.  Oh, by the way, I'm not the only one who wants to see America fall, there are about 3 billion other people on the planet who couldn't care less if America fall of the face of the Earth! 

How has the US wronged you E-Kul?  Did they drop too much aid into your town?  Bring too much medicine to your sick?  Remove too many of your evil leaders?  Provide too much hope to your children? 
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« Reply #416 on: August 16, 2012, 03:03:45 AM »

How has the US wronged you E-Kul?  Did they drop too much aid into your town?  Bring too much medicine to your sick?  Remove too many of your evil leaders?  Provide too much hope to your children? 
America has wronged the whole of humanity with their imperial expansionist interventionist genocidal foreign policies, it's illegal wars, it's destruction of democracy, it's disgusting use of propaganda, it's destruction of the legal system and justice, it's promotion of greed and immorality, it's lust for power and wealth at the expense of the disenfranchised and weak, it's complete disregard for human rights, it's stark hypocrisy, it's lack of compassion, empathy or regard for those they kill, rape and generally trample all over for reasons that can only be regarded as sociopathic, it's promotion of the elites and vilification of the poor, it's introduction of mainstream terrorism and fear to implement fascist polices and to top it all off it's overt covering up of it's atrocities by silencing whistle blowers and using the media to misinform and distract the public from the important issues and cover up there crimes.  Australians hate America, it's just our weak as piss politicians who have become puppets in Americas attempt to take over the world.  America has exported nothing but terror, hopelessness, fear, lies, propaganda and trash TV.  Fuck America.
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« Reply #417 on: August 16, 2012, 09:34:45 AM »

America has wronged the whole of humanity with their imperial expansionist interventionist genocidal foreign policies, it's illegal wars, it's destruction of democracy, it's disgusting use of propaganda, it's destruction of the legal system and justice, it's promotion of greed and immorality, it's lust for power and wealth at the expense of the disenfranchised and weak, it's complete disregard for human rights, it's stark hypocrisy, it's lack of compassion, empathy or regard for those they kill, rape and generally trample all over for reasons that can only be regarded as sociopathic, it's promotion of the elites and vilification of the poor, it's introduction of mainstream terrorism and fear to implement fascist polices and to top it all off it's overt covering up of it's atrocities by silencing whistle blowers and using the media to misinform and distract the public from the important issues and cover up there crimes.  Australians hate America, it's just our weak as piss politicians who have become puppets in Americas attempt to take over the world.  America has exported nothing but terror, hopelessness, fear, lies, propaganda and trash TV.  Fuck America.

nonsense.....the US is certainly not without its failures, but this is nonsense.
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« Reply #418 on: August 16, 2012, 10:07:36 AM »

nonsense.....the US is certainly not without its failures, but this is nonsense.
Is that your diplomatic spin on it, like an attempt to put a band aid on an amputated leg, I think I went easy and you minimised even that!  America is a shithole, full of ignorant and misinformed people.  People can attempt to prevent the truth getting out as much as they like, but America is well hated for good reason, and no amount of harm reduction public relation spinning of the facts will change anybody's mind who is walking around with there eyes open.
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« Reply #419 on: August 16, 2012, 11:06:40 AM »

Is that your diplomatic spin on it, like an attempt to put a band aid on an amputated leg, I think I went easy and you minimised even that!  America is a shithole, full of ignorant and misinformed people.  People can attempt to prevent the truth getting out as much as they like, but America is well hated for good reason, and no amount of harm reduction public relation spinning of the facts will change anybody's mind who is walking around with there eyes open.

So you been to Perth, brah?
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« Reply #420 on: August 16, 2012, 11:17:52 AM »

Is that your diplomatic spin on it, like an attempt to put a band aid on an amputated leg, I think I went easy and you minimised even that!  America is a shithole, full of ignorant and misinformed people.  People can attempt to prevent the truth getting out as much as they like, but America is well hated for good reason, and no amount of harm reduction public relation spinning of the facts will change anybody's mind who is walking around with there eyes open.
I'm just not buying your version of "America the Great Satan". 

Still I'll ask again, what has the US done to you in Australia?  Give me some context and perspective here.
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« Reply #421 on: August 16, 2012, 11:48:44 AM »

I'm just not buying your version of "America the Great Satan". 

Still I'll ask again, what has the US done to you in Australia?  Give me some context and perspective here.
Like I said, it's not what America has done to me personally, it's what they have done to humanity - they have corrupted all that is GOOD! They Label their EVILS as Righteous and Honourable, they have corrupted the TRUTH by calling it LIES, they have created UNTOLD wars calling it PEACE, they condemn others and yet behave in a far more perverse and murderous way than those they condemn.  They preach democracy while practising FASCISM - one could go on indefinitely discussing how deeply sick and twisted the United States are, for want of a better phrase "They are a GODLESS country".  If my country wasn't aligned with them it wouldn't sting so much, but like many other Countries, the USA has exported their sick culture here, manipulated our politicians and our policies all in an attempt to take over the world.  I look forward to Americas demise, as do many other billions of citizens who have suffered because of Americas Imperialistic Attitude towards the rest of the world.
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« Reply #422 on: August 19, 2012, 06:16:48 AM »

America has wronged the whole of humanity with their imperial expansionist interventionist genocidal foreign policies, it's illegal wars, it's destruction of democracy, it's disgusting use of propaganda, it's destruction of the legal system and justice, it's promotion of greed and immorality, it's lust for power and wealth at the expense of the disenfranchised and weak, it's complete disregard for human rights, it's stark hypocrisy, it's lack of compassion, empathy or regard for those they kill, rape and generally trample all over for reasons that can only be regarded as sociopathic, it's promotion of the elites and vilification of the poor, it's introduction of mainstream terrorism and fear to implement fascist polices and to top it all off it's overt covering up of it's atrocities by silencing whistle blowers and using the media to misinform and distract the public from the important issues and cover up there crimes.  Australians hate America, it's just our weak as piss politicians who have become puppets in Americas attempt to take over the world.  America has exported nothing but terror, hopelessness, fear, lies, propaganda and trash TV.  Fuck America.

The problem is the government.

The people are good, but they are lead by an entrenched ruling elite who are tied in with the military establishment/industries, oil companies, massive corporations and of course the CIA.

Both the Democrats and Republicans are basically the same thing.
Their leaders will still be tied-in with these groups.
And it's the same in most other countries as well....
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« Reply #423 on: August 19, 2012, 09:13:49 AM »

Like I said, it's not what America has done to me personally, it's what they have done to humanity - they have corrupted all that is GOOD! They Label their EVILS as Righteous and Honourable, they have corrupted the TRUTH by calling it LIES, they have created UNTOLD wars calling it PEACE, they condemn others and yet behave in a far more perverse and murderous way than those they condemn.  They preach democracy while practising FASCISM - one could go on indefinitely discussing how deeply sick and twisted the United States are, for want of a better phrase "They are a GODLESS country".  If my country wasn't aligned with them it wouldn't sting so much, but like many other Countries, the USA has exported their sick culture here, manipulated our politicians and our policies all in an attempt to take over the world.  I look forward to Americas demise, as do many other billions of citizens who have suffered because of Americas Imperialistic Attitude towards the rest of the world.

Citing examples will make you seem more like an informed critic than a ranting lunatic or hardworking troll.  Noam never fails to pepper his talks liberally with verifiable facts about specific instances, including dates, names, etc.  That's what gives him his level headed appeal and respectability.
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« Reply #424 on: August 19, 2012, 05:23:32 PM »

Citing examples will make you seem more like an informed critic than a ranting lunatic or hardworking troll.  Noam never fails to pepper his talks liberally with verifiable facts about specific instances, including dates, names, etc.  That's what gives him his level headed appeal and respectability.
Are you fucking kidding, this is GETBIG if I was to quote facts of the infinite list of Shit America has been pulling for the past half century to get to the point where they are now, I would have to sit on my laptop 24/7.  I have tired of posting facts here on Getbig, if you truly doubt any of my tirade or accusations, look for yourself, I don't care.  You mentioned Noam Chomsky, stop being a lazy cun+ and read some of his works: Class Warfare, Necessary Illusions, Occupied Media, You are being lied to, Anarachism, marxism & the hope for the future, Hegemony or survival, Pirates and Emperors, Fateful Triangle, Year 501, The Conquest continue, The Prosperous few and the restless many, Keeping the Rabble in Line, Secrets, Lies and Democracy, What Uncles Sam really wants the list goes on and on of available material from Noam on what a POS the USA has become, Noam just too polite and also afraid to put it the way I do.



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