Galeniko please grace us with your nutritional strategy

[Primemuscle]

oh no this one will work on anyone if followed as said.

it will work as sure a a rafale of machinegun bullets would mess ones face up if shot in the face.

i can safely say, if someone doesnt lose fat on this, then hes not human.

I did not mean to suggest that one would not lose fat. If losing fat is your only concern and you aren't concerned with side effects of a particular diet, then it should be fine.

While I cannot offer myself as an example of this theory, I maintain that the healthiest way for a bodybuilder to be in competition condition is to be near there all the time. Bulking and then losing vast amounts of weight will eventually take a toll on most people.

[Nomad]

,
yeah,simple but not easy.

the best motivation seems to be becoming so out of shape that it leaves deep phsychological impact,ie being shocked at what one sees in mirror.

also, ridicule from others can be useful, but can also totaly break a person.for me ridicule and hate and jealousy i turn into motivational energy.

obviously, if one has had women simply bec theyre so superficial and stupid to have you based on looks, this is kinda addictive feeling.

and for me, the best motivation is seeing ppl becoming fatter and fatter slowly but surely and losing all self confidence.sounds cruel, but its rather a deterrent "i never wanna become like these".

or plain and simple fatsos, i look at them and see a swine in human uniform.

some have the nerve to describe themselves as victims to the food industries, and its akways the same emancipated women with smarrtass attitude who know everything best
a victim is an afghna woman which gets stoned to death bc she forgot to put on a burka, our spoiled western fatso pigs are victims to nothing but own ignorance and greed.

some will say its a psychological thing.hahahahah.ofc it is, everything is somehow a psychological thing.

 

[cephissus]

Okay, gal, I've taken the time to read through this thread, from page 1 through page 70.  First, I owe you an apology.  I claimed the thread had been "drifting" from your "first post".  Clearly, this isn't true.  Your first post was the best, most detailed post on the "diet phase" of your protocol, and some pages later you offered another good post on the "maintenance stage" which I don't remember previously reading at all.  Apart from these two posts, there are a lot of other good ones, most before page 25 or so.  The problem is, they've become so spaced out it's easy to forget them.

I think you, and especially no one, misinterpreted my posts.  It's easy to construe them as hostile, antagonistic, and inflammatory but that wasn't my intention.  When I voiced my criticism of the book idea, I wasn't trying to slight you, nor was I implying you had nothing to say.  As I went over the thread, I compiled both your and no ones' posts, retaining all which I felt were of use for someone trying to follow your diet plan.  Even if they really comprise only a third of what you have to say, there is a lot of repetition (given the nature of the discussion thread format), and, using these facts to gauge the size needed for your booklet, I still believe it would be perfectly practical to post your entire guide in several posts.  (Also, I didn't realize how few characters are allowed per post at getbig.)  You could start a new thread, reserve the first five or ten posts, and easily put it all in there.  I think this would be much more helpful than releasing some PDF booklet, which can't be as easily edited, distributed, amended, or discussed as a forum thread.

As for no one, I never thought or implied I was "doing you a favor".    By stating, "I'm one of the few people earnestly trying to follow your program and voice my feedback, yet you act like I'm trying to kidnap your children", I was saying, in other words, I find it odd that you reacted as such to my concerns when your professed goal in posting about this diet is to help people who want to try it.  You've been really off-base with your volatile outbursts towards a number of posters in this thread -- not just me.  Read peoples' posts more carefully, fly off the handle less.

Here are the posts, for everyone to have for their convenience --

GALENIKO:

ok, here goes:

-first off, no t3, no efedrina, no gh is needed, the best drugs for dieting is sheer willpower, you must be happy and looking forward to become shredded.

-dont be a mentaly weak pussy, dont even ask about cheat meals,just do not, i have been at 5-7% bodyfat for 2+ years in a row.i know perfectly what it takes to do this.

-do not ask any bullshit question about which drug is best for cutting, and fuck if you think tren burns fat you got the wrong mindset and should stop reading right here.its not about drugs, with good diet,any drug will work.even natural it will work.so the drug question is out of the window, any steroid will work.no steroids will work too.one thing is ,if steroids, take only as little as is needed.nobody with less mass than me needs more than hrt, they only need more time.

-if one wants to do this on gear, make sure to be clean before starting, or if one wants to come from a bulk into this, then double the dosage or you will not so very good.this wont produce mass monsters, so spare me the "small" comments, this is about how to get lean.

-dieting fucking sucks, thats why i think the most radical way is best, in order to be done with the dieting business asap.generaly fatloss takes much longer than people wish it would, and the half assed diets with cheat allowances just extend the dieting unecessarily.
your metablism will not slow down, you dont nee to "boost" metabolism with cheat days, you do not need a carb up, stop this bullshit.

-your muscle wont wither away during dieting, its just that ppl wish they had more mass than they really do, the fat fucks are much smaller than they tjhink.yes, you will feel small in clothes, oh yes.as long theres enough protein and you train, the muscle is not going anywhere.
you will be flat some days, but just stay cool.you will think a carb up is necesary to feel fuller.stop this bullshit excuse thinking, salt will make you feel fuller too.its all the mind playing tricks on you.

-naturals will need bit more fat for this diet.maybe 50gramms fat extra per day.50gramms is nothing in your mouth, but alot on calorie scale, dont overdo it, 50 gramms is little.

-cardio yes or no, up to you.not needed, but can acclerate the effect.be active in general, walk alot.

-starting point doesnt matter if youre at 15%,25%,10%.just crash into the diet straight away, no weak minded slowly entering the diet by slowly reducing calories, dont fool yourselves.

muscle loss can happen if one chooses to go under 6%, this cant be denied.but 6% is very extreme lean enough.

-dont even check the scale, all that counts is the mirror.

-dont even count calories, just have the same shit every day.

-3 meals,6 meals, 1 meal, it doesnt matter, do what you like best.never eat when not hungry.

-when hunger comes(dont confuse hunger with apetite, hunger is when stomach is empty and feels like itll implode,apetite is when a disgusting fatso swine feels like eating again).wait out the next meal as long as possible.fight the hunger attacks with water, diet coke, brushing teeth, chewing on coffee beans(very disgusting but great apetite anihilator),cigaretes,whatever.

then eat .then wait again.

-if you have a meltdown and several 1000calories binge, dont worry, shit happens, do a full body workout on that day, each bodypart 2 sets of 50 reps, to make that glycogen go away somewhat.and wait before the next meal until you have shit out every last calorie of that binge.this can take way over 24hrs.be strong,wait it out.then return to normal meals.

-train hard, none of this high rep bullshit.hard doesnt mean heavy.train smart.

-now how much protein.if youre about 200 lbs bodyweight total, have 200-300gramms protein.my proetien sources are tuna, chicken breast, turkey.

it dont matter if its 2 or 3oo you will be hungry as hell anyway all day.

-i hope i dont need to mention that you shouldnt ever drink sugary drinks,drink water, diet coke, put aspartame into water if you like,i do that.helps alot.spare me comments about aspartame being unhealthy, fuck yourself if you just felt an urge to say so.

-how many carbs?what carbs?well,have all carbs from veggies, period.no bread, no pasta,no rice.if you have 100-150gramms carbs from veggies, thatll be good enough to get down to 8% failry quick.if you have 50-10gramms carb from vegiess youll get there faster,to go under 8%, easiest way is to reduce carbs to 0-50gramms a day.

-fats?how many fats?traces.have a whole egg here and there, 1or 2 nuts(not the whole fucking package, not 20 nuts,1 or 2), salmon fish fat.dont do this balonie a spoon of oil.no need to load up on extra fats.just have traces,the body needs them.

obviously on higher carbs days, you reduce rotein and vice versa.

-no cheat days.do you understand?no cheat days.cheat days are for later on ,fomaintenance.

ok this was it for fat loss.ill do later the one for maintancae.

but yeah once shredded, and do cheats meals and start to get fatter, just return to this diet untill shredded again, you be back to shape within days.most important is to get lean once and then never let yourself go too fat again, this way you be lean all year.

if one feels weak and like cheating on diet, go off steroids, your enot doing yourself any favours.

-getting there is the hard part, staying there is easy as shit, relatively.

you wont gain size on this, but thats not the point.later on one can add size by ways of cheat days or meals, so to say short term bulks.

you can listen to advice of anyone you like, but remember the galeniko has been shredded for 2 years straight non stop.not just abs showing throug skn somewhat, but veins all over striated shoulders anytime, etc.in layman terms, i backed up the words with action.

i wanted to add, some days you will feel and be flat, and randomly hold alot of water, just dont worry and carry on.

i also believe that training on empty stomach is best.get up, no breakfast,i never have breakfast,never, go train, wait a bit and then first meal.

the energy levels wont be any different than compared to having breakfast, a meal takes about 10 hours to be metabolized fully and be ready as energy for the body and muscle.

i have my biggest meal right before going to bed.somehow, this makes you wake up full and hungry, seems optimal.

336688, water, well i drink plenty,maybe a gallon daily, but rather to deal with the hunger.its not necesary to drink soo much i think.

deceiver, yeah i know, some powerlifters are lean some are not

oth good point, the strictness thing is necesary for many.i find myself letting way too lose if i allow myself stuff.if i dont even think about it, it works.basically its a thing of willpower,if one really wants it, he will be lean.

its very hard,the mental aspect, going from maintenance or gaining, to fullout diet, i know, its worse than one would believe

hahahahah

no serious, a natural can gain muscle while losing fat, but only for short while and under the following circumstances imo:

no training at all for months,ie out of shape

absolute shit diet during that time.


if he gets back training and eats well, it will happen.

other than that, the upcoming maintenance approach ill post later on will be good enough for natural to maybe gain slwly somewhat with focus on staying lean.

bulking id never do as natural, for when dieted back down, youll lok the same again.

not saying natty dont look good when lean btw.

yeah this is very importnant, the initial hunger sensation is just the greedy brain wanting glucose, it really is.
if you drink water and do some activity the hunger will just go away after 30minutes or so.

ok itll furiously come back later on, but if one manages to do this over and over, then hes got it.

ok, last addition as far dieting down goes, dont be affraid to do a total fasting day at times, when i do that, 2 days later i have clearly visible, more cuts everywhere.

now, for the maintenance....

ok, first about how fat one should or should not become, gear users shouldnt go beyond 10% imo, estrogen sides will be an issue, the water retention will make you look like absolute and utter shit, even at 10%, not to mention when even fatter.
and water retention leads to high bloodpressure and that leads to long term severe sides.so yeah, i wouldnt do it.

for natural, dont go over 12%, for 2 reasons, 1 beeing whatever you gain from there, most will be fat anyway, and dieting back down isnt fun and will take a long time.

theres really no need to go higher than these 2 bodyfat levels to gain muscle, muscle come with time, not with bodyfat.

ok now, maintaining 6% is relatively easy, its not much harder than maintaining 15%.ofc youll slowly get fatter, but itll be slowly.
its important to be honest about how fat one becomes, bc the fat comes creeping in layers and youll look "ok" for long time until one day suddenly the abs are just gone.

i simply never go over 8%, bc that way im back to 6 within a week or 2.
once fat enough, i just go back to the above dieting method.

meanwhile, this thing called maintenance is actually something like a bulking phase where basically any diet approach will work.

for example a huge huge binge with no regard to macros or anything, followed by 30hrs fasting then back to clean dieting for 2 days and rinse repeat, this will keep you full of energy, getting bit heavier, but only slow fat gains.

hell one could just even eat whatever he likes until he finds hes too fat and goes back to dieting again.

or eat the same as in diet but with small treats every day.can get with 3 icecreams on top of the diet with no problem whatsoever and itll be kinda quality bulk.

the most important thing is just to get back dieting before too fat again.

i do something between these 3 approaches, finally managed to eat clean with some treats without melting down into a 10k calorie binge, and its the very best way imo.

but still dont stuff yourself, only eat when hungry,k this applies even for this phase.

if one way overeats in this time,ie eating when not hungry all the time, he will destroy the conditioning very quick.

the gains made here as as good as itll get for natural, the steroid user has option to increase dosage, to each his own i guess.

in conclusion, the eating like dieting + couple treats works best for me and has hardly any impact on the conditioning.

how am i to understand this sigh?

its what roughly would happen,10-20lbs pure muscle is alot.

thats basically it.
i mean take out the carbs from veggies and replace with fats and go full keto will work about the same, i just feel better with the veggies.

i see you use similiar motivation tools

"till i feel full"is very vague and can be misleading, your own brain will mislead you to stop way too late.

if i do that, and im not joking, it somethimes ends up being 15k calories in one sitting.

eat slow, drink water inbetween, and stop when feeling kinda filled up.

intermoinent fasting is something i do when i feel im lean enough, but with no regards to macros whatsoever and no time rules, i wait till hunger comes back.sometimes takes 48hrs.depends on how much ive eaten.
its ok for maintenance, but will make one slightly fatter slowly.does for me atleast.
green peas and bananas are soemwhat more filling bc of volume, but theyre totaly overrated bbuilding foods, not much better than having a snickers bar straight up.
100cals doesnt just sound really low, it is.
but what youve done in 14months would have taken way way less time on 1000calories.even if you had a weekly meltdown-diet failure-epic binge.

dont worry about muscle loss.

yeah, i know, but man, the difference itd make as far real lean pure muscle growth is concerned is negligible.

id rather try more volume and keep the joints health instead.itll look about the same pretty much.

and couple missed meals, the night before training session bad sleep, this alone will lead to very random results in strenght.

or if triceps was done the day before chest or shoulder, performance might suffer.

the body and metabolism and life in general are too random to lan on incremental increases.

and to get stronger, theres 2 ways,increasing dosage for gearheads resp getting fatter for natties,

other example, if i had many calories followed by 2 days rest,i can usualy do 30reps bench with 200lbs.
after non resting days maybe 20, after dieting days sometimes as little as 10 reps.

in any case the chest -for me-is neither shrinking nor growing.

strenght is very very relative term, how long under contraction etcetc.

ha, esp for these ppl, this will most likely be the only way to get anywhere.

i dont believe so much in brutal differences of metabolism speeds, its more to do with stomach size, portion sizes of food over long periods of time and general activity leevels over extende periods.

i have seen so called ripped hardgainers, who claim they eat everything and loads, they simply have small stomach and dont even eat much.
ive put one of them on some 5k calories daily for a mere week and he already got softer.

 

sometimes, a bonbon, some pice with 5gramms of sugars,have initiated a 20k calories binge festival for me

brutal

then, when you notice this wont end well, you try some fat for saturation effect, but it jst fails, the fatty fod will have some salt to it, and this triggers even more.haha

yes, and theres hidden salt in some, to trigger apetite, just like in the small aperitifs.old tricks.

indeed, i cut down on the diet coke alot and that alone has reduced to stomach volume by much.

but stopping eating as soon or just before the stomach feels like itll extend is the sweet spot.

as broscientific it may sounds, eating slow helps alot.

bbuilders who notoriously think they need more fod than they actually do really should consider this, the guts are testimony to this

nah, mustnt suck if its at a satisfying level.

at some point, the smart ones will dcide to maintain what they have, its not like thats easy.

maintaining at high level is great great motivation imo.
i knew other go through this too.

the metallic smell in the morning and the weird feeling on upper part of stomach, this is when the body is in fatloss mode.

i bet this feeling must be an absolute nightmare for permabulers and would make them pass out or puke.

you described this very well, one thing about this metalic taste is, it kinda kills apetite, so even though youre starving, you dont feel like eating.

great post.this metalic feeling comes lng long after just little bit starving

yeah, talking to you about this, its clear that both went through the same exact things and sensations.

i dont know if the fatsos can value how much worth this info is, bc this knowledge doesnt come for free and by itself, this comes from years of experience.if one does 1 cutting diet a year, thatll be couple months of the year gone, and the first couple times newcomers will absolutely fail, for so many reasons:

-they will wrongly think they NEED refeeds, but this will just halt progress and they wont be able to control themselves.good point omn refeed if its lower than maintenance, this is very very importnat.if the refeed is above maintenance, there will be worse conditioning even if one fasts for a day after, when one spills over, some fat gain will happen, the water will be there to but itll go away anyway.

-lack of experience in general

-thinking they need more carbs than they do, or coming from high dosage bulk to same or lower dosage diet is prone to fail

-and so much more, in general a smart bbuilder will learn to "hear out" his body and how it reacts to what.

yes, conditioning the portion sizes will make the waist tighter , the stomach smaller and the ability to overeat will be more or less gone,cycle is the perfect term youve used, and i agree about the refeed, which btw imo needs to be from the worst fats and sugars, and very little protein, a clean refeed of "long" carbs and protein will do fuck all.

yes during hard diet times, the body will simply store water under the skin, from something like 2 bare chicken breasts with nothing on it, its totally random and nobody in the world can control this, but always goes away.
in this precise moment, where everything seems to make you look like shit and flat, you WILL think your muscle is fading away, but IT IS NOT, its just flat.in this moment many think the refeed is necesary, but its not, just stay focussed and carry on.

the only thing about conditioning that seems consistent for me is when i drink a gallon of water today,but none tomorow,on the 3rd day the skin will look transparent if lean enough.those are the days where i take pics and post them there, its all planned
i have sometimes posted pics from the watery and flat day and was suprised how small i looked haha, but then the next day i found that person in the pic looks much bigger than i am, but its me.
and this has nothing to do with carb loading, its clearly a water issue.

ok another thing ive figured out, if i wanna look good the next day, i just have some 100calories of trash food before going to bed and then in the morning i dont drink water, this always leads to than full, lean look.for me atleast, dont know if this is individual or applies to everyone.

the willpower is everything in this, this is why i so deeply hate and despise the lazy fatsos who approach me and ask if theres that magic fatloss pill.
they are in need of so much learning, it leaves me with nothing but facepalms over their naivity and lazyness and wanting an easy way out when there is none.

you know, when i seen hamdi aykutlug the first time, i was young guy, i was soo shocked and amazed how lean he was, but i didnt blow it by asking him which diuretic he uses and how much this or that(everyone would talk about it and put out rumours).i asked him"what in the hell are you eating,whats your diet".he took his valueable time for me and we sat down and he explained stuff to me.

being smart instead of the pretend to be smart attitude"its all drugs", theres a huge difference.

yeah we both said before, if someone takes huge,abuse-level dosages when young and fresh in the training, he will benefit from this many years later still, even if he stops training for years and then comes back.that time when young and absolutly jacked on gear elevates the natural limits, something definitely happens.

this still doesnt make it "all drugs", a real quality physique takes years,years and much knowledge.

the pros might be dumb, but no so dumb to just rely on "its all drugs", they know full well what theyre doing.

the insulin and gh guts come bc they lose their sense for reality, just like cswol.on another level, but same thing.

cheers man, absolute pleasure talking to you

[cephissus]

oh yes, if one is just even having thoughts about cheat day or small treats before this, he will fail.best to not even start.

they will also fail at any diet they try, for its testimony of lack of willpower.

i tell ppl protein, 150g carbs daily and bit fats will get them to 8%, which is true but itll take twice as lng as compared to go full out on the diet.

and if they have 150g carbs a day, theres no room for cheat days nor cheat meal, or itll simply take forever.

ppl severly underestimate how much a cheat meal can put one back.

theres not even a need to ask can i have this or that, all the food choices are outlined and very clear, this means, nothing else but that.

god damnm this permabulking advice and cheat meals advice from the mags has done some serious damage.

arnold and company dieted on 1000calories.they didnt have no much broscience articles and much theory talk, they figured out the low calorie secret,lol , and they know protein does them good.

no bread means no bread, etc.

ppl dont get it, once lean enough, the maintenance will seem like a joke, this is when one gets rewarded, the dieting,any fatloss diet will be not fun.

if its fun, there wont be results

if they wanna get cut with treats, they will most likely fail, just based on the fact itll take longer.

hell,i starte this at what,20% bodyfat, and i didnt waste a single thought about any cheat whatsoever before i got down to 10%.
it was 2 months of literaly nothing but chickenbreast and salad.no dressing.and when i say nothing but that,i really mean nothing but that.

9 out of 10 are mentally too weal to hold through.

have a frend he knows exactly how is done, but he "has" to have mcdonalds chicken wrap couple times a week("this wont hurt will it"),and then wonders why the last fat rolls just wont go away.

its not even suffering, thats the wrong term, the best way to describe the mental approach is to cut the bullshit and stop any excuses until at the goal.

full agreement on everything.

this is why you know when someone says they need some carbs,that they dont know what the hell theyre talking about.

long long term caloric deficit is the key, the more extreme the better, only then will a big meal(yeah i dont like cheatmeal or refeed terms either, theyre indeed stupid)be benefical.

good point on the sugar, only after a while on this you realize how bad sugar is, i react to sugar very badly too, it messes up so many things i wouldnt know where to start the listing.

the magical point seems to be somewhere at 8% fat or so, where suddenly the estrogen issues go away, and every day you see a new detail and vein popping out somewhere, this in exchange keeps you motivated to go through this "horrible" time.you know youre on track and very close to the goal.
this is when even the slightest bit of veggie carbs give you painfull pumps and vascularity.this is the other side of the world to the world where ppl say they need carbs to feel full,even though theyre sitting at an obese 15%
and even if already at this point, there will be many ways to ruin it all, after this point,one has to know exactly how to adapt short term to things.overtraining becomes an issue, can get fevery suddenly etc.

and after all this, yeah i can get away with eating 2 gallons icecream at once, but i know exactly when and why i can get away with it.

yup, the info is now out there, all colected in one thread, i think everything is very clear, the drugs or choice of them are secondary, pct talk, anti estrogen talk is not needed,if one has to talk about those, hes far from ready, i wont even go there.

and for the one who say im too small for their liking, and they want more, well, you geniusses, figure out for yourselves how to do that, and "noone" is quite bigger than me and he has the very same views on this, so yeah, good luck

these could have been my words, bc that is exactly how i think too.

i mean, once youre through, i do get away with more bad foods than i want.

and the fast results are the most motivating thing there is,i can see daily changes, the skin looks like its glued to the muscle and tighter every day etc etc.

ppl here say im in great shape year round, but whats more important,they say they never seen anyone loosing fat so quick,im very proud of that.

and who can deny that if you know youll be at romes gates in 3 weeks , rather than in 12weeks,isnt a psychological advantage?

diet is diet, the extra calories for those who think they need them(while still being in deficit ofc)will not saturate them,let alone satisfy, during a successful diet, youre simply not saturated, youll be hungry most of the time anyway.

its personal prefernece, just like some rather starve more instead of doing cardio, while others do cardio but allow themselves bit more food.

i know 1 guy who diets on 300gramms carbs daily, and yeah, he comes shredded in the end, but damn, his dieting takes him 16weeks, starting somewhere at just under 10%.

for those who rather have more calories, you can believe me, itll take much longer than calculated to get to rome, the calculations you can throw out of the window, theyre vague mathematics , the reality looks different, the body will slow down metabolism a bit, and towards the end, you will be eating almost nothing too

now the fears of muscle loss theory, i find it odd that people think theyll lose muscle on very low calories, what makes them think theyll lose more muscle in a short brutal deficit, rather than in an extended but less brutal deficit?

i clearly remember ronnie colemans words, hed lose muscle if he diets for too long.think about this.

the fear of losing muscle is , stupid, even permabulkers fear losing muscle,even though theyre in perrmanent brutal caloric surplus.

oh yes, thats the goal, to make some ppl atleast try to get in shape, encouragement.

but yeah seeing as how clueless many or of diet, the fuel of all this, i dont even bother discussing training, but i do something similiar to you, little rest, high volume and heavy enough training, this is very good sentence" if it feels heavy,it is".
while permafatsos overeat in order to have "stronger" lifts, they miss out on the real training.

who cares what anyone can bench, after 10 days of almost no carbs and low bodyfat, and if done fly chest movements, nobody wil bench much.
besides it s all the ability to flex properly,under just the right load.

training is going fantastic and yea, this is my goal, to still look something like now at your age.not size, hell i could live with 10lbs less size.but no less than that

ha, yeah , it looks kinda light when i train, but i do squats with say 3 plates all the way down very slowly ,then afterwards i run straight to the legpress, then straight hamstring curls, then quad curl machine or what its called.
everyone who would run their mouth and tried to hang would just gass out very quickly.
some strong guys eh

when theres no resting between sets, everything feels heavy, and i got to say,this considered,im kinda strong, and its not like just bc those lifts will be lighter, that you have lost strenght.

its just that strenght is a very vague and relative term.i see you got that down.

exactly, neither do they ask me whether i am on dips machine or do free bodyweight dips.

you know, milos sarcev is quickly labeled drug addict etcetc, from ppl who dont know him, but the guy knows exactly how to train and was way ahead of his time when he outlined the muscle mind connetion thing.

bc thats all it comes down to, constasnt tension on fibers.

now on top of that,one should use just enough weight to not crush his joints and tendons over long term and thats it.

how many reps, sets, all irrelevant, train until theres epic pump and go home.

if you dont get a pump theres something wrong with your form and-or diet.
same here, same story.then one takes more gear in order to become stronger, thinkng strenght is the key.

its not.ok some strenght foundation better be there, but yeah.

i use 25lbs dumbells for curls.can use to 70s and make it look like legit lift, but its all cheating and lying to yourself.
man thats not the point, i have seen many wealthy ppl with problematic addiction.

my point is, being a slave to alc addiction is ridiculous,its pathetic, you werent given life for such a miserable existence.think about it.

wes did.

for me itd be the same, would be at 8% roughly with those carbs, always full etc, but id slightly get fatter slowly.
8% is where i start to diet a bit again, and to go lower than that, i totally have to go lower on carbs.

even if i use too much fats, itll be no good,

btw, the deflation thing is just temporary, sucks ,i know, but goes away.

the very best if one can actually do it, for me, when already lean,all protein and randomly once a day some 200cals of shit food,which is very little, but it helps.but too much of it and it will be counterproductive, walking a thin line

and yeah instead of doing 300gr carbs daily, i rather do low carb and then once a week go full out, this causes less damage,as far fatloss is concerned.
thanks man, but this will not work every time,only every couple days or so.
i actually do that at times for a day.have a fish only day.sometimes all tuna sometimes all aspergus or whats the name.

or shrimps only day.those are harsh

yeah something like that.sometimes i have 150g protein, sometimes 300.

fats hm, very little, traces, whats in 2 nuts and veggies and maybe 1 small piece of cheese, like 10gramms cheese.the carbs arent  exactly 0, in 3lbs of vegs there will be roughly 100gramms carbs, but yeah those i keep between 30-100grmms.

when i go to total 0 carbs, i just eat 200gramms salmon that day, that has some fats.oh yeah and 1 or 2 whole eggs i do eat every day no matter what,just bc i like it.

and little bit moustard on everything.

and some days i do hollow out the end of a bread piece,so only the crust is left and stuff that with tuna.thats some 30gramms of carbs,and with moustard on it,its quite enjoyable meal.kinda like mini cheat.

but yeah, thats really all the choice of foods that ill touch when dieting.

its not even the hunger, its there anyway, but its the knowing that all the next meals are gonna be bone dry tuna with nothing else
i assue you tell them to eat the watersalt tuna, not the one in oil?the one in oil is excellent cheat meal compared to the pale pale water tuna

yes the want must be bigger than the complaining about suffering.then itll work.

the attitude "i just wanna lose bit weight,lets see", that one is gonna fail

nah man, natty youll start wasting away later than at 10%.sub 7% natural will waste away and not much left.

as for the point on losing muscle, its just not possible to lose a substantial amount of muscle while ppl train and eat enough protein, esp on gear,it simply will not happen.

natural will lose a bit at sub 7%,oh well.will be flat like cow turd

now, there is indeed one point , if a permabulker who is always on calorie excess and on say 1 gramm gear or more weekly , starts dieting like this on the same amount of gear, or less, yeah he will waste away and the whole deal wont go too well.

but nobody should be permabulking in the first place, permabulking should be reserved for the very first year of training, during this time one should learn the movement, what is intensity, the mind muscle connetion(yeah some clowns laugh about this mind muscle connection things and say how some pros train with bad form and it must be all drugs.no these pros know exactly what theyre doing, rest assured their muscle is under ful contraction at any time,it just may look odd.dont make yourself look stupid, they know exactly what they do)and carelessly eat whatever icomes in their way.if this is done once in a life, it wil never be necesary again.

so yeah the permabulkers who decide to go dieting they should best come off of everything(no hrt,no bridge,no nothing)and then restart ,coming in fresh and ready.or something like double the dosage,which is neither smart nor necsarry.

yes, i know.the mental attitude required is to look forward to a meal thats basicaly dry chicken breasts with nothing on them.

yesterday was very ripped, but started having cramps actually, so yeah i had something like maintenance calories from junkfood exclusive, felt better immediately, spilled over a slight bit, but its all good was def necesary.

im more natural than layne norton

i dont like talking about cycles.but my views are widely knows here, i dont like ugls, i dont think gymrat needs gh, i think doing insulin is straight up retarded, and im against high doses, for ppl overestimate how much they need.
someone whos built a solid physique will be able to maintain almost all of it with a fraction of what he used to do use before.

and most importantly, with such diet, the choice of gear wont even matter.can do this on the supposed bloaty stuff like dbol and deca and itll work all the same.

its counterproductive overall.
too much negatives compared to the positives, its for fatsos who dont have the willpower for diet and only get lean once in a while, to be ripped year round, this attitude wont work.

it kills sleep, you sweat on it like some fatso, and when the effect is gone, theres a tendency to binge on shit foods.
it puts strain on the heart, no need to do that.

besides, the fatburning effect is minimal, i mean were talking few % difference in metabolic rate, the effect of it on getting lean is bc it shuts down apetite for so long, i can do that without efedrine ,all by myself.

ukjeff has a point, might aswell do cocaine for dieting, this is exagerated example, but yeah, its the same direction.

besides that, efedrina shows up as amphetamine in the drivers drug testing and in this nation this will lead to most severe consequences.

here, abs today this isnt even flexed, this is just sucked in stomach look the deepness between ab lines

i agree with adam, natural will need a bit more carbs to spare some muscle and bit fats to allow natural test production, going entirely only protein will not end good, but i said so from the start.

wouldnt go below 1000cals on any day as natty.something like 1000-1500cals minimum.

this is another difference, where gear user will get away with,but natty wont.

the gear user can even literally do fasting days with no food at all and will only benefit.

heres video of today(click), felt horrible and flat and all the bad things from dieting, but it looks very lean so all good

yes no doubt it is, but im sure he never used it

chicirello also is spotting the ils , even though theres no lats there,all fat.

 

yah, after "big" meal the body feels like its burning from inside and some heavy sweating will happen.
agreed 24-30hrs fast after such meal i for myself consider that mandatory, it leaves the muscles full for 2 or 3 trainings, even if i eat barely anything these days.
and i agree that meals seems to "clean" up some stubborn fats, its not just looking fuller, its also leaner no doubt, as long it isnt too excessive in calories and as long i dont drink much water.some fat is simply gone the next day.
of if the calories of this meal are double the daily need, one will be full too, but def spill over a bit and gain little bit fat.and itll take some time to empty the glycogen afterwards, ie. longer time to return to fatburn state.

as long as possible fast , small meals,until you spill over even from chocken breast,haha, and then even a small calorie increase will re start things.

natural def some extra fat is needed, and bit carbs wont hurt, due to higher calories therefore,it might take some longer, but natty can decrease protein a bit.

hm ive worked in physicaly hard jobs, not worked at all and in physicaly easy jobs, its always the same, eating clean food when the hunger isnt bearable anymore, just more or less calories.

the temporary effects of cutting out the carbs will go away, but until it does it will feel very uncomfortable.

here is another thing that needs adressing.

lol.

alc is a no go for dieting.

how many ppl have you seen who seem to diet strict but they drink alc and dont lose any weight watsoever?

exactly.

look, alcohol is fermented sugar, it has shitloads of empty calories, so obviously theres no place for alc in such a diet.no place at all.not one glass of wine each eevening before bedtime,not the daily beer after work, none of this nonsense.

its better to have a chocolate bar once in a while instead lol.

while the body is metabolizing alc, it cant even lose fat, its as simple as that.

and for whos on gear, alc and gear combo is asking for cirrhosis eventually, and alc raises estrogen levels in you, i think i dont need to explain why that would be bad.

have alc when youre done dieting and pretend to do that all the time and get away with the shredded body, sdont be the fatso holding beverage in hand hoping to be shredded some day.

ah,no problem man, i can see that point.but the potential muscle loss below 6% can be fixed by upping the steroid dosage, i know, neither are long term solutions obviously.say, some halo will make sure the workouts are intense.

but yeah efedrine is most likely the best fatburner and it also somehow reduces the subcutane water, i merely pointed out the bad sides of it.

mind you the only reason i dont take it is the legal issues

the top left guy is in the 3%s, the alleged 6-7 is in the 3-5s

there should be one for 8%, the 10% looks rather 8-10

that 15 is fatter than 15 id say.

the 20% could be leaner, 25% and up dowsnt even matter but looks accurqte.

the 6% and 10% are off, that 6-7% guy is competition shredded.that could even be high 3S.

the 10-12% guy is just a bad example, very hard to tell.
sounds good and promising
agreed, i could literally, and i mean this, eat whatever i want all day every day and id be under 10%.

10% is simply fat any bbuilder over 10% has no idea about diet whatsoever, or hes just recently restarted training.

to have a goal like "getting to 10%" says everything really, this would be a goal for fitness girl to get in somewhat shape for summer.

10% all lines will be blurred,hardly any cuts etcetc.bloofy.

ukjeff, clean and eats whatever he wants, and trains pretty much very easy and light, stays under 10% at age 47.

hell and id even go as far and say its still kinda stupid to get down to 10% for fatsos on "easy" or lenient diets, the body is filled with estrogen and it takes forever to clean out all the salty foods and the bad fats etcetc.
as for energy levels, i had to come down from roughly 20% myself when i restarted training, and until i got into single digits and ate pretty much nothing but protein, there was never shortage of energy.hell i plyed tennis as cardio next to training with weight.how would that be possible without energy.

as long the body has plenty fat deposits, there wont be harsh energy crashes.

yes,excellent posts

[cephissus]

but being "on" mentaly doesnt require one or two beers does it

nah ,low coarbs can make you feel like in the twilight zone mentaly, theres no denying that

nah its consistent.

1 dont worry about muscle loss, this will only happen if one goes way under 6%, if at all.

2 the calories are so low, that theres really only place for protein, and traces fats and carbs.

3 yes, only ever when hungry, and fast as long as possible before going insane from hunger bangs.

this is the very fastest way.

the rest are additions and will prolongue this whole thing.

ofc it is importnant, it really takes nothing but to do whats suggested by me and noone if one is at 6-7% afrom the getgo

2-3weeks with no cheat days and bom everything shredded.

btw, that was my point about the water manipulation, read between the lines why i wont go there

its not good for the kdney and such

yes ofc you can eat more to maintain compared to losing fat.

the condition above can be maintained easy as long one rule is followed, the wait out hunger, then you get away with eating anything.

but that one rule has to be followed.its not easy, just loads esier compared to the fatloss part.

is it worth it?

hell yeah walking round like that year round is worth it.

matt "sloteyes" yogurt or whats his name ,yeah he gets lean onc in a while and then look like utter fatso soon after.
or layne nortern, how many weeks out a year he looks any good?5?

"Noone" and myself hold this kind of conditioning year round.

not even operation could stop me, all willpower, hell, not even a broke finger stops me, i have one broken finger on right hand

yes, a body when very very lean becomes a perfect machine, it uses the energy and foods perfectly.

while when fat, its plain and simply a huge mess.nothing works well, the pumps, the recovery, the metabolism, everything sucks.

so many fatsos out there who think they need this and that food and amount of cals, who never been ripped and dont know how much day and night difference it is.

theyd be laughing at their own claims if they knew.

yes, adam, everything goes so much better, its not drugs that cause that, its the diet itself,the body will explode and fully use the slightest carbs and even the worst sugars and fats.but only then.

the pumps are literaly dramatic,and yea the fatsos-im not joking-are confusing their milehigh bloodpressure from the salty foods with a pump.

oh and yes the muscle mind connection, ppl laugh that off, but they dont have the slightest idea how essential this is.

yes the magic point seems to be lower than 10% somewhere, then it more than gradually gets better.exponentionally.

at 10% i feel ok, but its day and night to when at 6%.

see, i can do that in 2months.

i dont get how and why ppl cannot get over hunger-bangs, when they start for me,when the pains kick in, i laugh it off and know now is fatburning mode,keeps me motivated,and tell to the hunger "bring it on".

no need for any maths, when the stomach almost cramps,nextmeal.

thank you very much, see we get to agree on it.

you made an very important observation,no matter what, the body will have to be in pretty much permanent starving state most of the time, theres no easy way around, and too big meals ortoo much calorie dense foods or too much calories period simply stall the process, but if one avoids that,it kinda flows by itself,just have to remain mentaly calm.

and would you agree that esptowards the end,6% and lower, itbecomes hell either way.

fair enough if youre going for more size cool, i dont ,am happy with what i got, plus minus the couple lbs i gain when im not dieting.i find it very hard to get back to shredded,so i rather stay right around that conditioning at any time, most ppl have very hard time to get shredded,thats why most onlypull it off once a year or every other year or maybe even just once in lifetime.

i dont like giving it away afterwards quickly, and its not like one cant eat the most tasty things out there once hes there

yes, if one does this natty,he will have a bad time and look absolutely faded away at the end.natural this must be done with couple 100calories from fat daily,and yes, some carbs.

you know, ill admit, even for myself, when im having my huge meals and am jst maintaining or gaining bit size, going back to this regiment is horrible, takes so much mental strenght, takes entering a whole different zone of thinking.

but after couple days, im in and its like nothing.

my friend who has only now restarted training and has been on most terrible diet habbits for years, has quitold eatinghabbits cold turkey and started this, with no problems whatsoeevr, but hes driven by shame about how bad out of shape he got.hes evenmore strict than me, and i think i need not mention hes got greaqt results so far.

hes down some 15lbs in 2-3 weeks.ok half of that willbe water.

now,now.holdon.

im browsing through this threadfrom thebegining,didnt even readall yet, will adresssome things.

i have looked into scientific studies and started athread,and the above does matter.

an example, eating 100gramms of protein or cheese will cause 3 times less insulin release compared to100 gramms carbs from bread.

this is significant, esp considering how when bloodsugar levels go up and down make one tend to binge.

with this diet you have to enter a zone and theres no room for volatile blodsugar levels-spikes

yah, what is known as processed food, lets just say theres no room for any such in this diet.

this diet reqiures the proper nutritious energy needed, or it will simply fail.

nothing halts fatburning as badly as those processed shit foods,while giving you fuck all energy.

takes a while for the body to clean up the mess such food causes.

sugars with saturated fats in the same meal for diet?good luck with that.

nah this wont happento men who train seriously.

the metabolism downgrading fairytale is severly overrated.

ppl are so afraid of losing their muscle,theyll believe any excuse.

has anyone tried deliberately to lose muscle?
i did, tried to get smaller legs, it doesnt work.

only not training for very long yeah then one will lose muscle.

infact he wont even lose it then, its just less cellvolume and water in them and less glycogen.this i learned at very young from nobody less than a multiple world bbuilding champion.
thats why some when they had muscle seemingly get into shapeagain so quick.

remember the fatleniko pics?my arms there were bigger on the tape than theyre now.and i wasnt anywhere near a gym for4 years in that pic.
ofc my gut was twice the size itsnow,so those armsdidnt look sohuge

i dont seeno reason to ever count calories.

when one has learnedto feel out his bodys needs, theres no need for that.

also, not everyday is same activity wise andmetabolism wise.

fully agreed  with you,as usual

ok, seen the vid and pics above?

now look what you can get away with when so lean, and youll see ill maintain this condition for however long i please.

this is what ive eaten yesterday,i could take pics of the empty packagings but i think theres no need(who dont believe will say thats just the packagings etc):

ok here goes:

-500gramms chicken breast, 2lbs veggies total of 800cals

-2 lbs of caramel soft icecream  1300cals

-10 various chocolate bars,each 300cals,thats 3300cals

-those above chocolate bars have been eaten with 2lbsof bread on which ive put extra butter, no idea how many calories that is

-1pizza 1000cals

-sausages(2) with bread and mayo and ketchup. and 2 chinese spring rolls,thatll be at very least 500cals

-10 various icecreams of average 300cal each, thatll be another 3000cals.

thats it , i wonder if the other diets allow such meals, yes that was 1 meal.

thats roughly 10k calories.

and i can do this in some frequency that boggles the mind and stay in this shape ,as long i follow some rules.

i dont need "couple few carbs daily"to feel good blabla.i rather have whatever i want and as much as i want,rather than some carbs or fats, restricting myself for half a year to lose couple lbs of fat and maybe permanenetly damage thyroid with t3, or do mindless hours of cardio.

some people dont seem to know why pros use carbs in their diets, its certainly fuck all to do with feeling better.

hope this helps.

now, if one does the above while not being very very lean, he will end up obese,plain and simple.

the catch is to get shredded first,then comes the reward.

now do the math, competitive bodybuilder will look like soft bloated bag of shit for most of the time, i will look lean all year, and i will be getting away with eating more of the most reckless foods called junkfoods etc.if i want to eat that.

ofc he will be big.....in clothes hahahaha

oh and btw that meal , you can be damn sure it will give any nutritiens needed to repair and grow muscle
hm, random.
what i never do is those "trainings" where one does a "heavy"(oh brother)set followed by 5minutes of hard breath in their own fatso sweat.

yea,kinda high volume, and very much focussing on the movement.

the videos kinda give idea about the intensity and the proper form used,i think it can be educational to many whom i suspect are rather swinging around some weights in the gym.

when so shredded and looking like anatomy chart, the useful thing is,one can observe how themuscle works(fatso have to  take blind guess), this is very helpfull,im not even joking.

form over poundage, the "strong" lifters can kiss my ass haha, what they gonna do with their "strenght"?lift cars in the streets?

haha

isnt it amazing.

science says theres only room for 3-4lbs food in the stomach, but ofc the gut isntjust stomach.

but one wouldnt think thisd be possible,and my waist is very small and tight.

no gut, thats another thing positive.i mean if one has the gut,imho, they better stop training altogether.

today,the day after that meal, my stomach looked the same ecat way like in the vid of 2 days ago.tight,sucked in,shredded.

ofc, i have a structure which doesnt tend to develop a gut,long torso, but thats not so important.

oh yeah, and i never,ever train abs, just incase anyone was wondering.

thx man, feeling humbled, the pics arent current though, but the back is even leaner now,id say.will take pics asap.

calipers read low 5s btw.
2-4 weeks, depends.

its possible within2weeks.but it depends on so many things.

if hes been eating trash before he starts, that alone puts couple days into the equation.

ppl underestimate how long it takes for a body to get rid of shit foods, they severly underestimate it.and the effects of insulin after bad foods,and the bloodsugar levels.

esp for bbuilding, shit food(is ok if you know when and how),is the absolute worst thing one could imagine, it causes an absolute mess, esp if its consecutive meals.

to state the extreme, try starting a diet with a pure fasting day,or with a pure binge eating day.
the difference as to when fatloss will start is brutal.

yeah,i dont even think of weight or %, i just stay focuseed.

1 meal.hunger period.next meal.train, next day etcetc.

i feel the scientifical calculations are off btw.it simply doesnt work like they claim, its just the best guess.

fatloss dont work the same at different fatness levels.it become gradually harder.

i mean, according to science, if i eat nothing for 1-2weeks,id be 0% bodyfat

just an exxagerated example.

and theres always water loss going along with fatloss, so watching the weight will be misleading.sometimes im 5lbs heavier than the previous day and ate almost nothing.

even the mirror can be misleading

yes, most brutal error ive learned in all those years is this one:

dieting hard.then, suddenly, one day the body looks like absolute shit, veins instead of popping out turn INWARDS haha,and quite thick layer of water under the skin and anxiety feeling etc.flexing,nothing happens, no pump no nothing.

then came the error, thinking i need refeed of carbs or something.oh brother, this wouldnt fix anything,made everything even worse.

sometimes the body does such crazy things.

the answer to this is carry on as usual.even the pros mess their shape up with last minute shenanigans like water manipulation or refeed stuff.
when the best pros cant dial in for sure, its reasonable to assume i wouldnt know a quick solution either.

the carb up panic reaction was always the biggest error,though.

im finding that, the amount of muscle thatll finaly sit on the bones, is more to do with how much peds are used than anything else.

you know, when dieted down to this level,where it shows whats left.

now, i can grow some with slight adjustments on the diet, a bit, while staying 6%, but thatll be amere few lbs.i know this sounds arrogant or even delusional, but i think im maxed out as far size goes.yea i could get 1inch on arms, but i dont want under any circumstances my waist to grow the slightest bit.

so yeah the maintenance of the condition, which ill write out precisely in the book(rather than being asked here on the next page again)alows some bit growth.

but i already have the size i want anyway, it must be said that growing big from nothing at that bodyfat will not be satisfying,or even possible.

unless one was on peds before, and is returning to training ofc.

but yeah some growth goes, if id allow myself to go 10% bodyfat,itd be much growth, even 8% would be ok, but i dont even want any size, and i dont like dieting the fat off, from 8% up the body is an estrogenic mess, but below 8% on this, i see daily and i mean daily changes.

yes, experiencing the same exact thing.
and i was asked back in this thread if i think its ketosis, which i dont think it is, its going further than ketosis, and cant be ketosis as per scintific defintion,esp as i give myself some few carbs.

it something between glucogenesis and ketosis i said, now i dont know the term or if it even exists, but itsa point where suddenly the body feels like its loaded with electricity.

same here , woke up early, no breakfast, went to the beach, swimming, writing on the book, then to the gym where i had severe,painfull pumps,excellent workout in 30 degrees celsius heat,and i left the gym only bc i had to go to work,i felt like i could do another hour of training.

and the job is physicaly demanding.and keep in mind im already as lean as it gets,im walking around with striated quads etc.

and on the other hand,i toldnoone in pms, after my calorie reload big meal, the workouts were worse and the pumps poor,so was general feeling, until THAT feeling of special state came back.it makes you feel asif the body sucks in and glues the skin to the muscle.

i keep telling the people, their lethargy comes from not being over the edge properly.

the brain works in magic ways, when not burning fat it makes you think you need way more food than you really need,meanwhile, the fat layers are creeping slowly into existance.

the first few days, alright, until you get into it, they are horrific, thats true.

oh and i forgot, i cant remember when i had the last day off training.

i should be severly and utterly overtrained, yet i do daily very high volume trainings.

by very high volume i mean just arms i do 40 sets+.

sleeping no more than 6hrs daily.

waking up fresh like newly born.

noone, i think i have a term for that state.

lets call it "survival mode" state.

i find this is a good description.

maybe its plain and simple starvation state.

[cephissus]

yah, some philospoh once said a day without laughing is a lost day.

i find a day without training isa lost day.

some fools will think theyre overtrained bc they cant bench 5 lbs more next training with their 2 buddies helping him onthemovement, duh,theres a way around that.thosepeople-dj 181 comes to mind- basicaly need a bbuilding training lobotomy and start from scratch.

yeah my kind of "cardio" is special, i dont like mindlessly beeing on stationary bike, i do something else.

not that cardio is needed with this programma

me too, but dorian is very vague at times with his statements, and this abviously isnt ant good for people who take insulin.

and theres other things that pros do,which wouldnt agree much with this diet, im writing it down.

however, you know from who this advice originated, he mustnt be shy to compere himself to anyone as far leannes goes

yeah, you got it.
overtraining does exist, but most are confused to about what it is.
feel thin and weak and flat muscles happens with any diet, happens whenever one loses weight, its just till one gets used to it.
comeon, even when permabulking, are you to tell me you feel full and like powerhouse 247

always same, tuna, chicken turkey, salmon and the daily small piece of bread crust and 1 egg.1 egg i always have no matter what.

so yeah, its all protein with traces of cabrs and fats, really,traces.

and i put whatis called?moustard?bit of that on the meals, so it doesnt taste like cardboard

eating 3 times a day, im not counting anything calories, but i know withouit counting what it is aproximately,and from experience, i dont need count anything i know how much it is by looking at it.roughly.

and the counting isnt the point, its soooo much under maintanence that beiing off by 100cals or so doesnt even matter.

also i dont really schedule meals.i eat the same bc it works, and its very simple to collect the portion the day before,its practical.

i dont know, but i have always had issues with orals, so if i used them,i would just have them as pre workout boosters.

that sure worked.

ah so, good all these little questions are already covered in the booklet

with one main thing that most dont get, from a certain bodyfat level and above, the compound matter very little, from bbuilding aspect pov 12%+ obeseity,nothing matters, nothing but getting lean should matter, 12%+is unacceptable.for various reasons.

and yes bob chicirelo was valueable poster, but was shoted down with the naive"all drugs" mantra.

this is already covered,as im posting this.

drugs are indeed the finishing touch, if anyone uses them for other purpses,he better rethink his plans.

man, PEOPEL, the 200 gramms protein daily are mandatory on this, dont you understand.

you get fuck all other calories, you absolutely need that protein.

thats the whole point of this.

also, eating when not hungry is the biggest mistake, and protein shakes inbetween ,they shouldnt be there.

as for the dramaticweight losses with little fatloss at the beginning, this is the body going into fatburning state slwoly but definitely, the first couple lbs are water youre pissing out.

this is what i meant when i said the body needs quite some time to clean out from the junk foods, the water loss is the result of that process.

nah comeon, 200 ,or if one weighs less than me,maybe 170gramms is easy.

look, 5 chickenbreast a day are already 100gramms, 5 chicken breasts are nothing are they?i could eat that all at once as aperitif

then 100gramms of shrimps,the small sea things, is another 20gramms.

then 1 can of tuna has 35 gramms , a whole egg has 6gramms.

thats already 160gramms and thats very little food for a whole day.one can top up the rest with protein shake or have less chicken and more protein shake.

theres also those dryied red meats out there where 100gramms of it have 40gramms protein, but thats very expensive meat.

the only "problem" with this is i kinda have to prepare couple lbs of chicken or turkey always upfront.and then warm it upa bit.mcooking every portion would be too time consuming.

i finding downing hte protein is the easiest part of this diet,the getting over the hunger is the hardest,kinda.

yeah, all the other diets are lets say misleading and anything resembling an average guys diet has to be totaly eradicated from the brain, the good part comes forthepatient ones when youre through.

and for those on gear, make sure to be clean for couple weeks before startingthis, or make sure to increase the dosage.
but go cleanand then restart gear would be absolute best.
i think i musnt explain why coming from a gramm weekly and 3-4k calories into thisdiet will not work particularly good

and naturalos, add more fats to this,can have bit less protein, but add 50gramm fat a day and bit carbs.the natural will absolutely need the fats, he will have more calories per day, thats how it is, and bit slower results.

the book will leave no questions open-unanswered.

but 1 thing is for sure, theres no option to drifts off and have leniency,one has to stick to the programm at any time or this leads to failure.
its not that hard , cheat meals are allowed etc.

but yeah if one doesnt stick to it fully-i know bc i did the errors myself-then it all goes down the toilet.

the wasting muscle thing is adressed fully in the book.dont be affraid of that.

of if youre only gonna eat traces protein and no claories, you may kiss your muscles good bye, but even then itd be hard.

example, go off training for a whole week and have no protein at all, and see if youll lose muscle.you will not.

the ppl are just horrified when they piss bit water out and mlet some fat how they feelsmaller in clothes.
has nothing to do with muscle, when one is not lean, there are thick thcik layers of water and fat between muscle and skin.

just to get back at this, it also depends on speed and how deep the contraction and flexing is during execrise.

i flex as hard as possible all the way  negative and ositive part of movement perfect contraction, who doesnt understand this dont even deserve a gym membership.

but yeah, if its just about pulling  number, hell 25 is nothing.

and either way,with such a back, i wouldnt even care if i couldnt deadlift 1 plate each side.

the back speaks very much for itself i think

i just have the biggest meal before going to sleep, this way i get hungry sometime in the night, but sleep through.

so much for the dont eat before bedtime broscience.

the good thing, with this shredded look i mustnt explain what is wrong and why, what i do and did is simply obviously the right way.
yes dont ovethink stuff, keep everything simple.
dont think about gyno and hairloss and all,if you do, better to seek other hobby.

one example is ppl shouldnt even think once about choice of peds before they reach 6%.

they sit there in their fat corpses and daydreamhow tren will be the best thing for them,when they should just stop thinking,stfu,and train like animals until 6%.

THEN we can talk peds.

surely it hasnt escaped your attention that i never posted again in steroid section,bc its a joke to argue with ppl whoneverposteda pic and obvious drugpushers advicing newcomers to do cycles i wouldnt reccomend to my worst enemies.

its an absolute joke if someone whos over 10% has to think what ped he should take.

or how much.leaves me to question if they have any sense for reality.

and the joke goes further than that, the predictable what about gyno what about test levels not recovering blabla comes next.

listen to the guys who been there and can be trusted.or try for yourself.thats all the options there are.

so many tren fatsos, and i have to listen to anything they say?haha

btw do have your vitamin suplementation, vit c ,multivitamins, etc the whole phlethora, magnesium, the tabs are good enough for me, and yes i have no doubts theyre absolutely needed.

if i dont have them i simply get sick and thats it.

but thsi should go without mentioning.

i just read your pm, but let me say you got the perfect setting to go through this, by accident,but you do.

be off any gear before starting this is the optimal,i firmly believe this.at least for few weeks.
the other option is to increase dosage.

uh, why that is, well, ever tried dieting when coming off peds and now think of the opposite way.

such little thing amass to key points for success.
yeah, this will be covered, from 6% further down things are a little bit different, but youre on the right way,smart thing,minimum drugs.

theres an excellent point made here, the fst and water distribution on some muscle misleads many to think theyre bigger there than they are in the first place,and they wonder how and when the last bit fat on some spot will go away.well guess what how will it go?its not so hard to figure out, theres a reason why they called stubborn spots.
 
somewhere under 8% most people will stop the bs worry about muscle loss, bc they will see changes every day, and look more brutal daily, this is about the spot where they realize how stupid their fears are.

when dieting one has to envision his skeleton, the muscle, and a layer of skin on that, that is the goal, to make the water and fat go.

the fullness, the pumps, the recovery, the not loosing muscle is all taken care of if one follows the advice.

even natural musntnt worry until 8% or so, after that he has to see if he wants to go further on, bc they will become extremly flat from there.(id still carry on, i dont mind bit flatness).

theres instances where this wont work well, if one comes from high dose bulk, there will be a problem.
coming off gear and then do this is kinda recipe for disaster, all one can do then is damage control.

and yes, even the most bs diets out there should get ppl with willpower somewhere to 10%(10% is shit conditioning but yeah), this one is just much faster and somewhat harder, but discipline is key, on any diet ,ppl gonna have to dal with hunger.
if they dont,chances are , it wont work.

but either way 5lbs or what it was for 1 week is good, but first week is just pissing out water, there wont be much fatloss.
if one already gets scared about losingmuscle in the first week where he merely and literaly pisses out water resulting from horrible dieting habbits before the diet, its best to not bother.
oh yes, the body takes his time to get into fatburning,it sdont happen overnight, this is the price of eating shit.
the first week is just clearing the body from the shit foods and depleting glycogen, this leds to much weight pissed out, none of it gonna be fat.
and this is good the way it is, natures way of telling you "fuck you" by overfeeding yourself crap.

yet,somehow, you and me get away with eating some junk foods.
how comes?well, different settings.theres a difference of knowing when you get away with shit food, and flooding yourself with shit foods everyday all day every meal.

if the people gonna believe calorie is calorie and just eat like that, well, the best of luck to them.

 

and yes, theres no nice way to explain this, follow the programme to the t#~(more or less)or it will fail.

its walking a thin line.

whether scienc backs our claims or not, i dont give the slightest shit, it works on everyone who follows it,
science for example says, theres no afterburn effect from workouts, while im 100% sure there is.

now look at the scientist, then look at me.
want to have philosophic discussion with scientist?do that.
want to look like me?perhaps do what i do.

from much talking ,nobody has lost fat.its always dedication and sticking to something.

nah its too "un-diety" must be more pale food.

im not joking, you can forget milk and diary and oatmeals, i swear that wouldnt work for me.

it also takes away too many calories youd need for the protein.

theres very little leeway here.

yah, an fluid calories are absolutely out, even on cheat day id steer clear away from that.

milk and oats can make one look like absolute shit from one meal.

its just very bad diet food.

some get away with it,i certainly dont.but thats not even the only problem with that food.

youre on the right way if your senses are so dumbed down that even pale brocoli you look forward to.and then they taste amazing and stuff.

precisely meals with milk and oats is why other diets sem to take forever and forever,if t

thanks primemuscle.

ppl severly overestimate calories burned during weight lifting.

a very busy waiter burns more in the same time.

and yet they think they need 500+calories from pre and postworkout meals.haha

this is the same as the fatso women who do 30 minutes cardio at no pace worth mention and then reward themseves with a pizza for that.

same principle.

thanks, brother.

more important, its to follow it, just listening and then not doing as said wont go places

prime muscle, theres no ecto endo meso morfs, other than structure.

their metablosim rates are all within few %.

there is not ppl who can get away with eating everything and not get ft, and there is not ppl who get fat just by looking at food.

theres only ppl who overeat, ppl with small stomachs, ppl with more efficient metabolism bc of being more active.

a baby has very small stomach, it cant eat so much.ectomorfs have small frame with bit smaller stomach, etc.

force feed ectomorf with 10k cals a day for a while and see how he gets away with eating anything.

starve an alleged endomoirf and see how he cant lose weight.

in the concentration camps,i bet the jewish were all mixes of morfs, and the survivors all came shredded.

conclusion, sciene says theres different bodytypes but they only mean bone structure, not metaboism.

ofc a mesomorf structure will look more muscular than a wide hipped turd endomorfic one.by default.

nah, in my early 20s i got somewhere similiar,maybe even bit more shredded, but less fullness.
and last summer was similar best condition,almost like this, and this january was close to it,but i felt its too early,shit weather etc,to go all out.
but ,the last 3 years was always, within few lbs of this, i stepped on scale today, was 95kilos with those few clothes in the vid,for who cares.

pre workout meal?why would you have that?until thats metabolised, itll take 10hrs.this is how ridiculous the broscience about pre workout meals is.
if hungry, thats perfect, just drink some water(diet coke is ok too,but i dont drink that before workouts it blows up my stomach).

noone said this really well, its about when not to eat, rather than when to eat.
the mindset of counting calories(i never count,but i know how much is in what from experience and keep to my limit)and scheduled meals is 2 habbits one best gets rid of forever.

yeah, the mindset has kinda to be to only eat to not die or shut the body down, the times for big meals of junk will come,the relief will be there.

i think he means this, coffee shuts down apetite and hunger pretty well.and its a hot drink,takes time to down it.often all it takes to overcome the admitedly furious hunger bangs, is just bit time and they go away.
yes, seems like it responds to very slight changes in diet with actual growth,so much for muscle loss.

the training is also weird, you know im deliberately going to the limits,always on the verge of overtraining, deliberqately, so i do some light workouts at times to not fall into full out overtraining,and soemtimes strenght absolute sucks.but volume i always do,and the pump is always brutal.,
but strenght is very random, but who cares,im not hyperventilating bc 1workout the lifted weight sucks,i find being close to overtraining is beter, for it puts the body at so much stress,it makes the metabloism work extremly well,its forced to.

its used every little bit food it gets perfectly where itsneeded and this is shown in the very scarce toilet visits i have to have.

and,this is on absolute min natural dosage.

got to laugh at the he guys who plan and collect their complicated dieting drug regiument, anti estrogens(lol),t3(yet of all ppl they shout alarmism bc possible muscle loss,when t3 is the best muscle killer out there, can be avoidd,if you increase dosageof gear,but thats no good solution etc),then the notorious alleged cutting drugs stack ,the cardio, the scheduled meals(turning asocial)and whatnot.

 

nah can have cheat meals.

or rather,must.

butnot until single digits, until there, theynot needed, theyll only slow down the results.

later on is different.

yo nicademus, smart question and im sure you understand .the answer.youre an educated guy

the body wont use muscle in this diet, mainly bc its given just enough protein,ofc the ped and how its applied(will be precisely explained in book), its forced to use fat and nothing else.i actually gotten into the 4%s and i swear it seems some muscles actualy grew.
with these fctors plus training,it just wont happen.
however, somewhere in the ow 6%s starts something where it needs a very pefect balance of bit junk foods,on bit more frequent basis, for theres almost no fat to drain off of the body.

i deliberately avoid ketosis, by having trace carbs, when one has carbs,to return to full out ketosis takes some 6hrs(so says science and i agre based on what keto sticks say, so this isnt really full ketosis, its somethign between glucogenesis and ketosis, i chose to call it the twilight zone.

answer to second question is basically answered with this too.

btw even naturals dont need to worry about muscle loss until 6% after that they just flat out,but even disgusted will tell you they dont lose muscle,they just flatten out sub 6%.

this answer is why someone whos coming from a geared bulk will not do sooo well on the diet.

also the not use of t3 and the such help to prevent muscle loss, and yes the ped choice plays a role.noone agrees with this too.and hes the bigger version of me.

its the twilight zone,notketosis

[cephissus]

NO ONE:

man every post you make in answer to a question it's like we are the same people talking. bang on dude. your giving out some great advice and what's more your explanations of 'what to expect' and 'what comes next' are bang on.

if i may some random thoughts if I may add to the thread to compliment what you doing here?

using this method as well the longer you stay on it for successive days the smaller your stomach gets and the less calories your able to consume when you do have 'that meal'. so by the time you've gone thru your 5th or 6th cycle (I call them cycles- consecutive days w a big cal meal at the end then consecutive days fasted again) you'll find you've gone from being able to consume at the start say 10k cal to being absolutely stuffed after about 2500cal. how great is that esp if your maintenance is 3k cal? that's why this method Galeniko is outlining here is so powerful in so many aspects esp mentally- the ability to adhere to the diet.

secondly results happen so quickly you are motivated to stay on track to see what the next week will bring so the mental part of this diet is very rewarding as opposed to a conventional pre contest diet where week to week results are negligible.

REGARDLESS of what you eat, and galeniko touched on it your body will hoard water and flatten out and make you look like shit. 333336 you said you've been right on your diet and you put on x amount if water and you contribute it to a few things you ate? nah dude. your body will go thru this regardless how right how restrictive you are. you just gotta stay focused as gal said when it happens and keep pushing on your body will normalize in a few days.

what else. ya one meal won't damage you in fact imo it's awesome. not for the bullshit excuses like oh I need to trick my body or what ever else excuses guys use to eat whatever they want but for the fact your next 2 sessions are the gym are spectacular. I find by the 3rd or 4th session fasted after the big meal I'm going they the motions just getting it done. but those 2 sessions you are killing it in the gym. imo I think that one refeed up to your maintenance is pretty essential to keep your metabolism running and ramped up thru the 'work' your doing in the gym after. to go over your maintence in cals imo is not necessary to get this result I've noticed and really only sets you back. why go over maintenance on on your refeed day if you and do the sale amount of work on less cals. anything more is lack of willpower.

lol allllllll this.

if you can get yourself down to eating 800-1200 cals a day (im 240ish my lowest days are 800 and thats tough, my highest days are 1200 and i feel a bit like im cheating 1000 seems about right) and do this for 4-5 consecutive days then at night before bed have your big meal at your maintenance or slighly below (i hate the word refeed for some reason word maybe it reminds me too much of the whole 'refeed' mentality of those 'permabulker poor excuse to stay on track' diets?), your really just setting yourself up for some great workouts and and still have 4-5 days of a an 18-2000cal deficit. how can you NOT lose bodyfat. for me i dont like to go over 2500cal, and if you dont think 2500cal is a lot or enough to be satifying try to eat 4 1/2 pound hamburgers made w exta lean ground beef (thats 2 pounds of meat) plus the buns at 150cal each.

im experimenting with this type of meal- massively high protein/ fat very low carb (around 100gram or so- when your taking in 2500cal 100 gram carb is only 1/8 of the account for cals )for two reasons- for me sugar is bad- my body responds horribly to it, and i seem to function well on lower carbs and find it way easier to hop back on a 800 cal routine when i havent had a shit ton of carbs the meal before as i subsist mostly on high protein/ high fat <30carb on the low cal days. this works well for me. part of the trick of the diet is finding what works well for you, and doing that, and the only way you do that is thru years of trial and error. thus the experimentation. so we'll see what happens.

and all this and only all this when you get down to 8 or so percent! and this is why this post ties in with this post of Gals- if your at 15% and doing this it wont work. you gotta get your fat off thru suffering and starving. there are no tricks no quick gimmicks nothing but willpower. this type of thing i outlined here only works when you get that chub off, and you are ready to try to get into the 4's and 5's. but once you get 'lean' your body becomes a fat buring machine in and of itself, and that maintenance meal is so benefical for so many reasons but so crippling if your not. dont mistake 'want' for 'necessity' it'll break the fabric of your willpower in no time and 2 years of 'dieting' from now you'll still be 'dieting' and never reaching your full potential.

great post G. this shit is gold all someone has to do is apply it. so much great info given out for free around here based on years of experience and trial and error not broscience and parroting its mind boggling. and that in itself tell you why you dont read shit like this all the time and when you do its very segregated to a small popualtion who agree fully with what eachother says, cause they lived it and recognise others have too.

cheers.

absolutely and reallt thats the whole key to all of this. you have to want it bad enough your willing to suffer. and once you make that commitment for some weird reason the suffering isnt as bad. but if you don't have the mindset going in that anything less than success from this dieting strategy is a failure then you will not be able to suffer thru it. at some level and I dont know how and can't explain it but your mind overrides your desire to eat for pleasure. it cannot in my experience shut down feelings of absolute hunger but it can turn off desires to eat for pleasure. your brain once you've committed can control cravings I believe.

actually guys the real beauty of this thread is that only very few people have followed it to these last pages, and if they followed it to those last pages, chances are they are ready to make a serious commitment to getting in the kind of shape thru suffering and diet that really not 'everyone' can achieve. so for the first time in a very long time in giving advise on a forum based on my experience(s) (other than in pm's) i feel like im not wasting my time here and its a good feeling knowing that people will take and apply what you tell them and they will succeed.

in that spirit, heres some tips to help you that i have found worked for me.

commit to suffering getting lean. understand that nothing short of reaching that goal is failure. i used to have 3k cal binges that made me feel guilty when i was dieting. now im so locked in if i eat 300 cals extra in almonds i feel like im cheating myself. get this mindset. it'll keep you away from the fridge.

whats 300 cals you say? 300 cals is ONE QUARTER of your daily allotment of cals when you are ultra low cal dieting. one quarter! so yea, 300 cals is a very big deal. get this mindset too.

when you get hungry grab a coffee. instead of cream and sugar use a scoop of protein powder. caffeine is an appetite suppressant. and be patient. soon after the hunger goes away. and the coffee is hot so it'll take a while to drink it

know your brain, know your body. take the time to listen to it. understand how it works. what it needs. learn to differentiate between actual hunger and mental cravings. this will prevent you from eating when your body is truly not hungry.

buy a protein powder that doesnt have aspartame in it. for some strange reason i think aspartame fucks w my insulin levels. in my experience when you fuck w your insulin levels cravings result and appetite increases.

stay away from sugars and try to stay under 100 grams carbs on your big meal day. it makes it so much easier to get right back into 800cal and no carbs the following day. you do not need a lot of carbs to feel amazing in the gym the next couple workouts.

forget about 'eating for taste'. eating for taste will ruin you and sabotage your mentality. this is about eating to perform your tasks and thats it. i dont use condiments or salt, in fact i dont even eat whole foods, and if i do its a baked potato and 3 whole eggs. no salt no mustard no ketchup no salsa. eating for taste gets your body craving food, and looking forward to meals. you want to fight that? fuck that i dont. this is utilitarian, not michelin.

find 2-3 key foods to use (see- when you get the mindset your not eating your using food). for me its natty peanut butter, protein powder and raw almonds. thats it. nothing fancy. i dont want variety. i dont want to eat tons of different foods. i dont want taste cause im not eating for taste. im eating to lose fat.

why raw almonds? cause when im at work i can put a handful in my pocket. they are always there. when i get hungry i have a few. i dont let my hunger build i kill it right away. you let it get out of control it'll crush you. i always have almonds everywhere. on the passenger seat of my car. if im driving and get hungry its a handful of almonds which saves the weak from pulling into Mcd's and crushing 3k cal. plus i dont like raw almonds they taste like shit. thats why i use them.

use tren. and its not about using tren to burn fat, or to build muscle theres something else it does very well. tren gives you a kind of energy i cant explain- a nervous energy. and when your in a 2k cal deficit a day this is handy. you dont need 300mg and up a week to get this effect. im getting it on 100mg a week. so if you are 'afraid' of tren, you dont need a lot of it if your using it the way i am using it here. 100mg is fine. 100mg wont kill you. this is coming from a guy who used to run 700mg a week pretty much year round.

natural peanut butter is your friend. watching tv and get hungry? have a scoop of natty pb. make a coffee. go sit down in 20 minutes you'll be gtg. but for some reason and i dont know why almonds blunt my hunger better, and it takes way less of them.

if you cant train heavy in the gym, be intense. not intense as in ARRRGH! intensity as in set to set to set all weight to failure. doesnt have to be heavy just dont stop moving. if you cant lift heavy chase the pump and sweat it out. on those days you can train heavy train the same way. just cause your training heavy doesnt mean you get to sit around with your thumb in your ass for a minute between sets.

get rid of preconceived notions about a)  dieting, meal timing and eating to 'hold onto muscle' out the window. there is no magic window for post workout carbs here. no x amount of protein per pound bodyweight. just using food to keep your body moving thru day. this is about losing fat. thats it.

and b) losing muscle. do you have any idea how hard to have to work to 'lose muscle'? any clue? any idea of the workload necessary to while in a severe cal deficit to destroy tissue? i keep hearing this shit online all. the. time. you'll lose muscle bro. you'll lose muscle. ridiculous. meanwhile they are all 240 pound perma bulkers who havent seen 5 percent in their lives. why? cause they are afraid to lose muscle bro. ya you'll flatten out. you'll like crap. you'll be watery. your body will be all out of whack. but lose muscle?look at Gals picks. tell me the fucker has lost muscle. the guy is 100% shredded muscle. lose muscle. gimme a break.

ok, thats it for now. more later as i think of them and im sorry if i have repeated anything anyone has said i was just banging things off the top of my head. props to everyone for such a great thread. if your lurking, contribute- you might have an idea or hint someone here can use. you wont get flamed in here. this is seriously about us all helping each other. the flaming is hwat the rest of the board is for

actually dude I don't get the craving that would lead to a binge in this methodology. that why I don't put in my post 'don't have foods in the house that can cause you to fail'. cause for me that's a non factor. my freezer is full of ice cream. frozen pizzas. eggo waffles. a 40oz of kahlua. there is no failing. there's only 150-300 cals at a time till I reach my daily allotment. breaking my diet isn't a binge. breaking my diet now is 300 cals over 800-1000. see how far removed I am mentally from that possibility? it's not even possible to fathom that even happening. .

that being said. there is going to be real hunger. the body will demand nurtrients like sodium carbs fats and in great amounts. this is what that meal up to maintenance is for. it's recognizing the difference between necessity and want, and fulfilling those needs to get your body to keep performing it's function.

im finding after my big meal i can fast- like 0 cals- for beyond 24 hours now and thats with  good training session in there. the longer you can do this i find the more benefits i reap. now my metabolism gets so spiked after i have to change my pillow half way thru the night cause its soaked w sweat. this is the first time this has happened in 5 or 6 cycles. my body is now a an efficient fat burning furnace. and waking up leaner after every big meal. its like it kick starts something that slows down in the 4 days of low cals.

agreed w fasting as long as possible, and agreed that nattys wmight not respond as well to a guy on to this kind of regime.

it's kinda all speculative till someone does it.

you'll hear people say 'oh this will happen and that will happen' without even having tried it. at best it's an outside guess what would happen.

imo is it possible? prolly. but for what? if my maintenance is 3k cal at 240 7% and I'm taking in 800-1000 cals on my low days and still functioning well, and I'm in a 2k cal deficit I don't see the benefit in a total starvation scenario. like at some point you have to weight benefits vs cost. for me it's a positive trade off to do what I'm doing. I function very well. I fail to see how there'd be any possible benefit cutting out the remaining 800 cals going starvation. this is strictly a cost/benefit ratio I'm talking about.

picture driving your car 180 mikes an hour. you can squeeze another 30 mph out if it but is it worth blowing your block and all the costs associated with it for such a negligible increase in speed?

bingo. and i think thats why my appetite and cravings are non-existent. no carbs on my fasted/low cal days just protein and fats. this is important in my case as i am very carb sensitive as even a slight change in my sugar/gi  intake can trigger hypo. some guys might be able to do carbs on this instead of fat. im not one of them.

besides, i dont want carbs for fuel

seriosuly tho dude we got to stop giving out this shit out like this. all the dildos who criticised us will use them and be like 'oh ya it does work'. let them get in shape with their 'diets' the hard way.

and everyone keeps wondering about 'energy'. energy? i dont know what to do with the energy i now have. i think part of the problem with conventional 1800-2400cal diets is that your not taking enough enough calories to supply your body with the energy it needs to perform its tasks, and too many calories for your body to fully tap into its fat reserves for fuel, so your constantly hungry, constantly lethargic.

notice how the further into that type of diet you go, the more lethargic you feel and the more resiliant to fat loss you become??? now re- read that first paragraph again and draw some parallels. basically the further into the prep you go you only exaggerate this imbalance. so you drop your cals further to stimulate fat loss. or up the cardio, and throw your body further out of a state of statis instead of working with your body and listening to it and letting it burn its fat off for you.

that is why those diets are not optimal! jesus people. open your eyes.

this is a theory of as to the 'why' of course and i cant whip up a peer reviewed study or double blind placebo test to validate it, but i dont need to. cause it works and thats all that matters. the 'why' is secondary to results. want proof scroll back a page or two and look at those pics. ya, hes really fading away to nothing and having to drag his ass through his workouts.  

lol

goddamn.

see, I know what I can eat, and I've seen xfactor eat but this is another level.

there's a lot of caveats to this. you mentioned one if them. being lean to begin with. but on the way down to this bf level meals up to 3k of whatever you want every few days is pretty normal. but if your a lard ass or a lazy trainer/ dieter and are using food for comfort instead of for a distinct purpose, guess what? you'll fail. part of this involves knowing when to do it, and how much to consume. these are not static variables once you get down past 6% as we are both discovering whereas maintaining 7% and up and dieting down to that number there isn't a lot of manipulation and the basic tenants of the method we've outlined apply- 3-4 days 800-1000cal.  one big meal before bed of maintenance cals of whatever you want. rinse cycle repeat.

we talked in pm about this. certain things happen in the body in this diet once you hit 6 and lower that we aren't going to go into detail on here. lets just say there are certain times and frequencies that you can do this and certain times your body will not allow it.

there's actually a lot of note comparing going on. and exactly everything we are each doing apart coincides with the results we are both experiencing which only goes to further validate in my mind the efficacy of this system it's not just individual you couldn't meet more different people genetically than gal and I. he responds to carbs. I respond to fats. I have very unstable blood sugar. his levels are solid. I am using minuscule amounts of anabolics and gh. gal isn't using gh. neither of us like fat burners. he likes whole foods. I prefer 3 things and not eating for taste.

but we are both experiencing the same results despite having two very different systems and different needs within the system. this only goes to further cement we have a very novel, applicable approach that can be tailored to each user, but still supplies the same results to all users despite those differences.

yes exactly. 3-4 days of very low cals. 800-1000. then one meal to maintenance of whatever you want (ANYTHING- pizza burgers ice cream) on the 4th day before bed. this will get you to 6% no problem faster than any method out there.

Gal likes carbs and veg. I prefer a more militant approach with my food due to my personality, and fats instead of carbs for fuel. but yes the one constant is higher protein. there are tips and tricks buried in the thread to help you with your appetite and other things to help you get to where you want to be.

Gal and I take two approaches within the same system but get the same results. that's the beauty of this. this can be used for the rest of your life to not just get into shape but maintain it. that being said experiment a bit. take a few weeks to try the carb approach. does it work? are you functioning well? then stick with it. if not try the fats. the beauty is one of them will work for you.

thanks for the props dude it really means a lot. enjoy your new body dude.  cheers and good luck.

depends on your current bodyweight and whether or not your a true 10%- being off on either can mean the difference of 3-6 pounds or more of fat.

anyway, in any diet as much as its nice to have goals, put aside the whole how long will it take mentality. all thats matters is the day your in. and the the next day your in. and the next day your in.

technically if i had to give you a 'measurement of weight' answer i would say based on the way we have outlined the system you are looking at a reduction of in and around 3 pounds of bodyfat a week depending on your current weight.

yeah the body will def not do what you 'expect' or 'want' it to.

no matter how idealised you think your results should be, there will be unexpected fluctuations on your bodyweight and your look all the way thru the whole process, for no apparent reason. like you'll wake up holding 2 pounds of water one day. all you had the day before was 400cals for almonds, unsalted, and 3 scoops of protein powder. lol technically it shouldnt happen- there is nothing to explain a 2 pound gain in water- but it does happen. the why is a mystery. its just the body regulating itself. the key is to just keep focused on that day. the body will let that water go when it doesnt require it any more.

so like gal said its hard to put an exact number on such things. all that matters is that day. and then the next day. stay on track and stay focused.

back in the day i can remember some of my biggest food binges coming after i looked in the mirror and saw we just explained. id be like fuck it, i look like shit i might as well eat, right? lol thats the mentality. i didnt realise what i do now. we are saving you all the pain of figuring this shit out for yourselves.

no. its all wrong. its not even close to what we are telling you. we are telling you 800-1200 cals (bigger guys i'd say can use 200 more cals maybe. but im 236 and very lean and i can do it on 800-1000cal. i feel like im cheating at 1200 cals after you get the mindset and start seeing reulst you wont want the 200cal extra to be truthful) a day for 3 days the 4th day a meal to maintenance in your case of 3k cal. whatever you want right before bed. you get up in the am and train fasted. you then start another cycle of 800-1000 cals a day until the next re-feed 4 days later.

this will get you to 6% without a hiccup. its impossible to fuck up. it works the same way every time, all the time in the shortest time frame possible. from 6 and lower everything kinda changes.

now you know why we got to write the book. lol

how to go thru your low days and the tricks and tips will be in there. dont worry about your energy we'll explain why in the book this diet gives you more energy than they typical 1800-2400 cal diet. then we'll tell you how and what to do to go from 6 to the sub 5's and keep that condition year round, or remain within 2 weeks striking distance of 4-5 from 6% year round. the whole time eating ice cream pizza and burgers.

[cephissus]

here's some food for thought gentlemen. 

my last m2m ( meal to maintenance) was Sunday night.

Monday I got back into the diet w 800 cals. yesterday I was around 1k cal. today I'm at 700

i trained fasted this am.  I'm going in to work a grave shift. as I typically do ill nap for two hours before. tonight I couldn't sleep. I had TOO MUCH energy. I was wired. I had to stop myself from getting out of bed and training legs this evening.  I already did chest and back this am lol

no stims. no fatburners.

conventional 'wisdom' says this SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING. I should be dragging my ass around everywhere.

gal and I have discussed this at length and have a pretty good theory. it's not ketosis as it starts to occur roughly 24-36 hours post m2m and it takes according to the 'experts' upwards of 72 hours to reach ketosis in a zero carb scenario. further more Gal uses carbs and experiences the same thing.

lets see if anyone can come up with the answer. here's two hints.

this energy does not exist in the 24-36 period post m2m. typically it really hits on day 3 of the low days.

it's why you get lethargy on 1800-2400cal diets.

food for though guys.  everyone has been so blinded by bullshit and broscience that it shouldn't happen, right? SAYS WHO? lol

we're pulling the curtain back like Dorothy did in the Wzard of Oz.

cheers.

lol agreed. esp when you really get into the diet. you'll be training training training and one day you'll just wake up tired. with me it isnt sore, just tired. then i'll think about it- when was the last time i took a day off from the gym. i'll think about it as long as i can remember and be like- no way- 2 1/2 weeks?

when your mind is set, your diet is on point, and your seeing results daily its easy to go everyday just to see what you'll look like tomorrow.

like Gal i feel like a day without training is a lost day. i'll rest when my body tells me it needs rest. why rest just cause 'its your day off' doesnt make sense. just like it doesnt make sense not to hit the same muscle group 24-48 hours after training it the first time. if its good to go its good to go. you just know the feeling when you get it.

we feel this is possible and likely. and we think the body becomes incredibly efficient in a severe calorie deficit at scavaging fat cells for fuel in the absense of enough fuel from food for it to rely on that for function.

further more Gal and I have noticed something about the m2m once you get below 6% that we'll explore in the book that ties into this phenomena. like we said this system will work for everyone to get to 6% or so. it's simple physics. if you can't get to 6% you simply are not following the template we've outlined.

at 6% the m2m needs to change. we tell you what to do, why we found this change is necessary and lay out where to go from here and get ultra shredded in a fraction of the time of other diets and without cardio.

as we said before this it's not ketosis as we've talked about before. we don't know what specific mechanisms are involved. like i said we are real world results guys not 'science' guys is but it happens and it's goddamn efficient at fueling you and stripping the fat off you at the same time.

but yes, good catch dude. you guys are learning.

the way gal's body functions and mine is different in a lot of ways, including tolerances to certain compounds. more proof its the system that is doing this, not just any one part of the system as parts of it varies drastically for both of us.

he'll cover what his experiences have been with what compounds, and i'll cover mine. i'll just say now for the record when you get really lean, the whole idea is to not want the 'type' of water associated w dbol anywhere on your body. whats the sense of covering up all that hard work with a layer of film, and walking around with a moon face? chicks like a lean face, with strong jaw lines, not waterlogged jowls. it triggers in them some kind of biological response to what could be a possible mate. there are much better compounds suited for what it is you are referring to.

disgusted likes anadrol when in a situation like this. i have used it and like it as well. i'll get into a list of compounds you might want to look at, and the combinations/doses to use depending on the look your after. this is important. you can look markedly different at very low bf levels just by using certain compounds (think 5% and a guy who looks full and round, vs 5% and a guy who does have that type of fullness and roundness but more of a grainer harder sharper look- and no, im not talking about diuretics or AI's. gal and i both do not use them, we'll tell you why, and cover that as well). so  basically the bf level stays the same, the compounds provide drastically different looks. we'll tell you what ones we like for the different type of 'look' you want to achieve.

in this regard, and i have said it before and i'll back up what he said again, bob chick took / takes a lot of heat for his 'drugs are just the finishing touch' comment. but he is 100% bang on if its being used in the context of what i have written here.

all this.

esp the eating when not hungry. what the fuck are you giving your body calories for that it isnt demanding? pay very close attention to what im about to say:

EVERYONE NEEDS TO THROW OUT EVERY PRECONCEIVED NOTION YOU HAVE EVER BELIEVED ABOUT 'DIETING' IF YOU ARE GOING TO FOLLOW THIS.

that means bullshit like eating 'because your supposed to' and other broscience bullshit beliefs that people just blindly do 'cause they are supposed to'.

secondly i think your cals are too high. why 1500? im 240 i've had 1k cal today. i feel like im cheating when i go as high as 1200-1300. your cals are to high. cut them back. at 1500 you might be giving your body too much for it to not want to use your fat for fuel, and too little cals to use solely for energy. one the major points of this system is getting your body to use its fats for its fuel. thats where the results and the energy comes from.

you say you've only lost 10 pounds but dont look different? be realistic with your goals. you are not going to wake up tomorrow with a 6 pack. its going to take time to get there but this will get you there in half the time as most other 'diets'.

were not giving you a miracle here. its fucking hard work and discipline. if you think it was going to be easy think again. nobody said 'easy'. efficient, yes. optimal, yes. easy? not by a long shot.

im going to make this very clear. we are not giving anyone who has been lazy enough in the past to not be able to get in shape some kind of magic key here. this isnt what this is about. we are giving those who have the drive, discipline and desire to get into shape the fastest most efficient method to do so. if you think your going to follow this system, not suffer and wake up magically shredded i suggest you just stick to eating poorly and continue to yo-yo diet cause your only going to be sorely disappointed.

 

again as gal and I keep discovering what your 'supposed' to do produces dramatically less efficient results than what we are doing. I cannot 'prove' my theories on this, just based on what I feel to be true based on what i know and have learned, but the main differences causing layne to not get gals level of conditioning are:

dieting too long. it seems for some reason the harder you throw your body into this deficit the better it partitions the nutrients it gets. allowing for better lean tissue retention, actually faster recovery between workouts and in my case the creation of new tissue mostly in part to those factors. cause I'm on exactly the third the amount of anabolics it took me to get here and Im leaner and bigger relatively than I have ever been. again, all unexplainable and not supposed to be happening but it is.

too high cals w cardio. all those cals are only going to support fat he's trying to lose. all the cardio does is burn off cals he's giving his body that it doesn't need. lol talk about an inefficient push/ pull scenario. but I guess 'conventional wisdom' says that's what your supposed to be going I guess.

wrong choice of agents to diet on in terms of anabolics. forget all the 'go to' prep drugs. there's one your never think of above all and no it isn't anadrol.

finally I think the combination of all these factors couple w fat burners and all the other shit he takes his body doesn't need (including food) is preventing him from getting to where gal is.

my 0.2. provable? no. speculative at best. but I'm ok w that cause it doesn't matter 'why'. all that matters is that it works, period.

thats why im so far over arguing about this stuff with people. its there. try it. im waking up every am leaner than i have ever been in my life. i cannot wait to get to the gym tomorrow. i look bigger than i ever been. i got told i looked like a super hero yesterday ffs. if someone doesnt want to get this system, take the time to learn it or follow it, great. cause at this point i could honestly care less. i have nothing to prove anymore. lol

why pre workout? its not about eating at certain times, its more about not eating at certain times. if you can train fasted do so. then stay as fasted as long as you can after. we are finding this is very very important to increase the bodies ability to burn fat. your not eating for fuel, your body is supplying that.

so why eat before you train? so many indoctrinated useless habits we have developed because 'were supposed to do that'. clearly its not what we are supposed to do, or else the body wouldnt respond as remarkably as it has.

also, i wouldnt use the powder with just water. it wont satiate you. it might just leave you hungrier. if you use powder, put it in coffee. that way it'll at least blunt your appetite. but powder in water is not a good idea. stick to whole food instead. and btw powder makes up almost 100% of my protein source, with odd days with meat. always in coffee, never water. cheers.

I'm loling!!!

ya you kinda forget you haven't had a dump in 3-4 days on this diet till the night you eat that meal. then by the am it's as you said it best, business as usual.

funny thing is people will look at this and think oh he doesn't eat like this all the time but the sad truth is you have to eat like this. like it's imperative. I suffer the rest of the night with sweats and a full stomach but the next day in the gym is killer, and the mental reset is even more valuable. gets you into the whole mood to fast for 24-30 hrs after and drop down to 1000cals for the next 3/4 days and when you look in the mirror- voila! another 2 pounds of fat gone.

[cephissus]

And last, here's a couple of posts from SNX I found particularly worthwhile:

I'm pretty much in line with what No One and Gal say.

These are my principles:

1. don't cheat on the diet. If you get X amount of calories, then only eat that. Cheating because you think you need to top up the tank with more calories is bullshit justification for weakness. Suffer and get there. Do or do not.

2. the amount of meals you eat isn't really relevant. 'It's calories in vs calories out. Eat them all at once, or space it out and eat 20 meals a day if you like. It won't matter. The body is a marvelous machine that will adapt to absorb what it needs to survive and thrive. And when you're dieting, your body wants to survive. It will preserve muscle and shed fat. That's why your body has fat in the first place...to keep you alive when you starve.

3. do it quick. Don't pussy foot around. Do the job, get in and get out. Focus on the goal, and get to point A from point B as fast as you can reasonably do it. Diet as quickly as you can. Humans wane in their passion for long-term goals - that is the inevitability of human nature. Appreciate this; set a lofty goal and chase it down with all of your passion and power.

4. food choices don't matter for physique composition. Now, some guys like typical bb'ing foods because it keeps them regimented and it's easy to plan and cook. This is a mental choice...not a physical one. Some guys like different foods because it allows them to taste foods they like and they feel they can control caloric intake even if they eat non-traditional foods (like TA). If you can be disciplined in this approach, great. If not, then just pick a dozen food sources and stick to them. It really doesn't matter physically. What matters is that you can stick to it, and not deviate. That is the best plan. You know your weaknesses and triggers best. Choose the approach that allows you to master your triggers that cause you to deviate. Some guys can't eat just a few potato chips or a small bowl of ice cream or a single bottle of beer without going hog wild -- for you guys, eat bb'ing foods. For those of you who find that little tastes of non-traditional bb'ing foods allows you to hold to a steady caloric intake, then do it. This is purely an emotional and mental issue...it will not affect physique composition to any material extent. Stop convincing yourself otherwise and open up to new ways of thinking.

5. You don't need 500g of protein per day. You might like eating that much, but you don't need that much. Stop rationalizing your thought processes. Test yourself and see what happens. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

6. There are no "bad foods". There is only too much, or not enough. Not enough, and you lose fat. Too much, and you gain fat.

7. Live life. Bodybuilding should complement your life, not run it. Be a human. Enjoy all that humanity has to offer. Don't ostracize yourself from friends and family because your tupperware won't travel. Is that really "living"? Is your end goal really to be a slave to the Foreman grill and a tupperware container?

8. Training doesn't matter all that much, in terms of what program you're doing. Your body will develop to its potential as long as you are consistently in the gym. Ergo, choose programs that allow you to consistently hit the gym. Don't lift stupid and get injured. Don't burn out on ridiculously long or intense programs. Don't get bored with training. Change it up not to shock the muscles (that's pretty stupid); change it up to keep you interested. The more consistent you are with hitting the gym regularly without getting hurt or burning out, the closer you'll come to achieving the best you can.

9. Don't waste time with cardio. Do it if you like, for sure. But it doesn't burn all that many calories. Lift some more weights and burn more calories. You probably like lifting weights more than walking on a treadmill anyways. And if you must do cardio, do something productive. Cut the grass; go take a walk with your wife and talk to her; go run around with the kids; play a game of tennis with an old friend. Have a life for christ's sake.

10. Don't over-complicate it. When you get crazy with excel spreadsheets planning out your training and diet plans, you've gone too far. It's not rocket science. Consistency yields 99% of the results you're after. The rest is just mental masturbation. Own your shit.

Well (and this is the biochemistry undergrad background talking here), theoretically:

If the amino acids you took were pure essential amino acids, then theoretically, you could get away with eating less protein. Your body would use the EAA's to manufacture any non-essential AA's your body would need. Therefore, you wouldn't need as many calories from protein sources, since a few grams of EAA's can easily replace many grams of complete protein. Let's say the ratio is "one gram of EAAs replaces 5 grams of complete protein" (and don't take my science as exact here...I can't remember the ratio).

Then, theoretically, if you thought you needed 100 grams of protein per day to achieve your goals, you would only need 20 grams of EAA's to do the same thing. In which case, you could save yourselve from eating 80 grams of protein (the 5 to 1 ratio). And that amounts to 320 fewer calories you'd have to eat (80 grams x 4 calories/gram = 320 calories).

Now, that'd be a miserable existence. But you could do it, and I think the math would work and theoretically, it should work. But that would really need to be applied to see if it bears out.

In patients fed parenterally, it's not uncommon to dose with saline, glucose and EAAs. But that's in extreme cases.

Not sure why you'd do it, but it's worth a shot if you like experimenting. I'd love to study it, but I'd never do it myself. I like chewing food.

Now, there are reasons why it won't work.

You simply can't expect pure EAA's to replace a complete protein source. EAA's are just that: pure EAA's.

A piece of steak also contains creatine, essential and non-essential fats, minerals...there's just too much going on with a piece of food to compare it. I think in the long run, you'd probably wind up with micronutrient deficiencies, unless you made a concerted effort to get those micros from other food sources.

So theoretically, it's do-able. But in the real world, there's a good chance for malnutrition over the long-term, and general unhappiness and malaise in the short-term.

[BigCyp]

Gal in his current shape reminds me a lot of the Zyzz/Aziz guy who died in Thailand a while back.

Would be interesting to see if any of their methods were similar, as both stayed ripped year round.

Obviously both Gal and Zyzz, run low/moderate doses constantly this is not questionable, but I wonder whether there are any other similarities?

[BigCyp]

Zyzz's diet was a bit different to Gal/No one's approach, but he still got the same end result. From his website:

"Zyzz diet was clean but he didn’t count calories like some bodybuilders do. He trained hard and ate right, period. Zyzz stuck to eating around 7-8 times a day, and ensured he maxed out on protein with each meal. He didn’t eat crap, so cut out fast food, sweets and sodas from your diet. He consumed a hell of a lot of water, and the only other drink he had daily was green tea to help with fat burning and getting that shredded look.
 
Here’s a sample of a typical Zyzz day when he was at his peak. Know you too can eat and train like the legend.
 
Zyzz Diet
 
Meal 1: 6 boiled Eggs,  Oatmeal - 2 cups (6 oz). Protein shake.
 
Meal 2: 300g (10.5 oz) boiled chicken breast (boiled), broccoli with brown rice.
 
Meal 3: 200g (7 oz) tuna chunks in spring water with spinach leaves and wholemeal pasta
 
Go for a workout.
 
- Whey protein shake
 
Meal 4: Stir fry beef or kangaroo mince with vegetables (various)
 
Meal 5: Steak or kangaroo with brussels sprouts
 
Meal 6: 4 scrambled eggs with smoked salmon
 
Meal 7: 1 cup (6.8 oz) Cottage Cheese (zero fat). Eat 10 minutes before bed


From the looks of it, he was front loading his carbs (i's say a max of 70-80 grams a day, based on the above example), training hard, and only eating lean meats/fish with minimum fats after training.

Gal/No one - what would you say he has in common with you guys?

[dj181]

what's your current bodyweight gal?

and how tall are you?

[BigCyp]

zyzz is bit hard to compared he used all the fatburners, diuretics, COCAINE!, and on top of that, was already 5% anyway.

so yeah the above would easy work for him but is still a suprisingly clean diet with not many calories.

yeah i remember he ate clean despite all the drugs and despite already being lean and he was a very very active kid.

i find this a good example.

noone and me get away with much more bad foods for maintenance,though.

i like how he didnt count calories, neither do i(but i know how much is what).yes there are many factors which are the same,or very similiar.

not counting calories doesnt mean eating like a swine, looks like the guy was no dumbass, he was just bit reckless.

the 7 meals per day is bit unnecesary, he still "fell" for some of the broscience out there, but he got many things figured out very well for his young age.can tell that we was one who was able tot hink for himself.

Exactly!

Without the coke, zyzz wouldn't even be worthy to write a diet thread on getbig, let alone a book like you and no one.

[no one]

Zyzz's diet was a bit different to Gal/No one's approach, but he still got the same end result. From his website:

"Zyzz diet was clean but he didn’t count calories like some bodybuilders do. He trained hard and ate right, period. Zyzz stuck to eating around 7-8 times a day, and ensured he maxed out on protein with each meal. He didn’t eat crap, so cut out fast food, sweets and sodas from your diet. He consumed a hell of a lot of water, and the only other drink he had daily was green tea to help with fat burning and getting that shredded look.
 
Here’s a sample of a typical Zyzz day when he was at his peak. Know you too can eat and train like the legend.
 
Zyzz Diet
 
Meal 1: 6 boiled Eggs,  Oatmeal - 2 cups (6 oz). Protein shake.
 
Meal 2: 300g (10.5 oz) boiled chicken breast (boiled), broccoli with brown rice.
 
Meal 3: 200g (7 oz) tuna chunks in spring water with spinach leaves and wholemeal pasta
 
Go for a workout.
 
- Whey protein shake
 
Meal 4: Stir fry beef or kangaroo mince with vegetables (various)
 
Meal 5: Steak or kangaroo with brussels sprouts
 
Meal 6: 4 scrambled eggs with smoked salmon
 
Meal 7: 1 cup (6.8 oz) Cottage Cheese (zero fat). Eat 10 minutes before bed


From the looks of it, he was front loading his carbs (i's say a max of 70-80 grams a day, based on the above example), training hard, and only eating lean meats/fish with minimum fats after training.

Gal/No one - what would you say he has in common with you guys?

ok, so like gal mentioned, he used coke and fat burners as well. coke is an appetite supressant for those who dont know, apart from giving you energy. in the mountains of peru oldtimers use coca leaf with an alkaline (typically lhama fat and ash) as a type of chew to give them the energy to work at high altitudes on very little food. so its not just a party drug, it does have certain undeniable characteristics that would have helped zyzz to stay lean. that would be the first difference, and its a huge advantage to the user, altho a dead end.

he eats several times a day. i'll eat once typically, if i cant get all my food down in that meal i'll eat twice. i'll eat chicken breast or xtra lean ground beef at this time. up to 2 pounds. depends on the day and my appetite. im very much play it by ear and see what my body wants, so i cant even follow a schedule like he does. ill eat if im hungry and not if im not. he seems to like whole foods several times of the course of the day. i prefer coffee/protein powder but thats just me. and he didnt count cals. im always within 100cals guestimating, cause as little as a 300 cal variance can mean 1/3 extra of my daily intake and retard possible fat burning.

our whole ways of doing things are totally opposite really. two completely different approaches. for example:

-his total cal intake each day. im way less.

- his carbs. im carbless on my low days.

-i train fasted, and dont eat post w/o for at least 12 hours.

- i load up every 3-4 days on foods hed typically not eat.

where we have similarites:

- we both love to train. you cant just point a finger at zyzz and say 'all coke' cause its not fair. he loved to train and diet. you cant look like that unless you do love it.

- we both stay away from sodas and drink a lot of water, and i like green tea as well, but mostly in the summer.

- we both agree protein intake is very important. we just dont take it in the same way.

- bitches love us.

[no one]

hey thank you cephissus for doing that. it took a lot of time to complie and to gop thru this thread.

you guys should thank him for doing this for you. its a gold mine of info.

much props dude.

[no one]

6ft, 210lbs-95kg, 48cm guns.

weight can go +/- 5lbs within one day randomly,i dont worry about that though.

dude, do a physique show. they have them over there? you dont even have to do anything. dont have to drop water. just throw on some shorts and walk out. be good exposure for the book too.

[Kim Jong Bob]

Damn well done ceph. That must have took some time

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Damn...Awesome!

[monstermunch]

Nice one cephissus, must of been painful to trawl through the tripe!

[Nomad]

When doing full 24 hr fast can you still consume whey protein or simple veggies that have no usable  calories such as celery and lettuce?

[calfzilla]

How many lbs per week would the people on Biggest Loser drop following gals training and nutrition strategy? 

[dj181]

christ! this shit's still going on

[O.Z.]

One of the most insightful discussions on this board, Gal&others thank you for effort

[OTHstrong]

took me a few days to go through this thread  this thread is crazy lol

[OTHstrong]

well if you eat 200 grams of protein then thats enough to maintain muscle on anyone, that adds up to 800 cals, so there is plenty room for carbs and you can still stay in deficit.And I know its fast, but its faster to smoke a crack pipe and eat fuck all.

No 200 grams of protein would not work for me, tried it and lost muscle, I need 300 while dieting and I have tested this over and over so your wrong and I am right.

As for the crack pipe, no you would lose muscle and the point of doing it fast is without losing muscle not doing it fast and losing muscle, man where is your brain