Stand Your Ground Law's Latest Victim

[Dos Equis]

No it isn't.  There are different degrees of being a visitor, but no matter what your are still a visitor.  It was her house, not his.  He frequents the place, because it's his girlfriend. Legally he is not the owner hence it is NOT his property. 

We are not going in circles, you are creating something that doesn't exist in the world:  people who don't live together, who  are not married, who aren't on the lease or the deed, becomin owners of property lol. Hilarious.

Oh yeah, BIG distinction:

 someone knocked not he door and jiggled the handle......he stopped

Versus....Someone picking the lock, using a crow bar, breaking a window.

Are you seriously trying to tell there is no difference?  Wait!  You are!  Lol

The dumb ass was confused, and he irresponsibly used his gun and accidentally killed someone.

The dumb ass, knew the cops were on thier way and nothing indicated there was forced entry. 

Hendrix is a stupid person.  Hendrix should do prison time for being such a dumb ass and irresponsibly killing someone.   He should also pay some sort of financial restitution to the man's wife.   

Also the wife should sue his ass.

Ozmo this is silly.  Even the reporters aren't making a distinction.  From the most recent story I found:  "Hendrix then went into the backyard of the home he rented in the Chickamauga area, confronted Westbrook and fired his handgun four times at the man, sheriff's officials said. No charges have been filed."

http://www.myfox28columbus.com/template/cgi-bin/archived.pl?type=basic&file=/shared/news/features/top-stories/stories/archive/2013/11/GDrQytVT.xml#.UrHSeZHDNuY

And now you're calling the woman his "girlfriend"?  Was that just a typo?

Regarding someone trying to open another person's door at 4 a.m., I am saying there is no difference in the mind of a reasonable homeowner between someone trying to open a door at 4 a.m., twice, and someone trying to pick a lock, etc.  How the heck is the homeowner supposed to know the person isn't trying to "pick the lock" when they're turning the door handle?  That's just crazy.  You cannot use hindsight to try and evaluate whether a person acted reasonably. 

Also, you should slow your roll on this.  Tony has been on the money.  You've said stuff like this:

So if I am not actually in danger, but I feel like I am in danger then I am justified to use deadly force?  Lol.  I don't think so.

Is that how the law works?   They a have a "standard for a reasonable person" and if that person feels they in danger they can legally use deadly  force even if they are not?

Hahahahahaahah. Right.  

 

[Dos Equis]

It is NOT a big overstatement at all. It was NOT his property, in EVERY sense of the word.

He did NOT own it. His girlfriend rented it, while he maintained a separate apartment elsewhere.

His status that night was no more than a GUEST.

It has not been established why the gun was purchased, or if it was even purchased.
What has been established according to the AP wire release that you yourself posted, is that he kept his gun at his residence, which was a separate apartment from the home she rented.

And no, it is not unusual for a guest to bring a weapon into a home they were just visiting.
My ex brought his gun into my apartment all the time. mind you... I always made him unload it.
The gun went on the top shelf in the cupboard, while the bullets went elsewhere... this way, if he ever pissed me off bad enough, he'd have the time to get out the door and down the stairwell before I'd be able to get it loaded. 

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

I've asked you several times in this thread, but let me ask again:  what is your source for your statement that he has already been charged or a decision to charge him has already been made? 

[Dos Equis]

No, BB, that's not what I'm asking. I've stated my belief that Hendrix was appropriately fearful, so not sure why you'd say that.

Obviously, if the subject's hands are unseen, Hendrix (or any person in the same situation), wouldn't necessarily be able to determine that information before making a decision to shoot.

The person must, however, find himself appropriately fearful through sound reason. And in this case, healthy reasoning would call any or all of those things: gun, knife, bat, fists.

Are we together on this point?

No.

[240 is Back]

Some people believe they can shoot another person, in their yard, without seeing any kind of weapon or real physical threat.  They think just being in the side yard - and of course, the shooter's word that Hendrix was walking - is adequate for shooting.

If a jury agrees with you, cool.  I sure wouldn't want that kinda weak soup being the only thing on the menu for justification for shooting an old mute man. 

[Dos Equis]

Some people believe they can shoot another person, in their yard, without seeing any kind of weapon or real physical threat.  They think just being in the side yard - and of course, the shooter's word that Hendrix was walking - is adequate for shooting.

If a jury agrees with you, cool.  I sure wouldn't want that kinda weak soup being the only thing on the menu for justification for shooting an old mute man. 

The lying liar just cannot help himself. 

[240 is Back]

The lying liar just cannot help himself. 

Mr Westbrook, a former Air Force pilot, had been left mute by advanced Alzheimer's Disease

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515417/Homeowner-shot-mute-Air-Force-veteran-charged.html#ixzz2nqh4vNGu
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[240 is Back]

Reminds me of was it biden, that was asking the handicapped man to stand up.
Or Ryan Seacrest trying to high five a blind guy.

Or Joe Hendrix trying to order a man who cannot hear to lay on the ground.

[Dos Equis]

Mr Westbrook, a former Air Force pilot, had been left mute by advanced Alzheimer's Disease

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515417/Homeowner-shot-mute-Air-Force-veteran-charged.html#ixzz2nqh4vNGu
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

For reasons that are not clear, Westbrook left his home and started walking. A deputy sheriff noticed him along a road around 2:20 a.m. and stopped to ask what he was doing, Walker County Sheriff Steve Wilson said. Westbrook told the officer that he was gathering mail and then planned to return to his home up a hill. While Westbrook's answers were curt, nothing about the conversation alarmed the deputy.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ALZHEIMERS_FATAL_SHOOTING?SITE=VANOV&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Dos Equis]

Reminds me of was it biden, that was asking the handicapped man to stand up.
Or Ryan Seacrest trying to high five a blind guy.

Or Joe Hendrix trying to order a man who cannot hear to lay on the ground.

You are a lying liar. 

[24KT]

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

I've asked you several times in this thread, but let me ask again:  what is your source for your statement that he has already been charged or a decision to charge him has already been made? 

I told you already. It was from a newspaper article. Unfortunately, I didn't save the link.
I wish I had saved the link, but I didn't, ...and I am not about to go searching through and reading every single article that has been written about this incident.

If the article was inaccurate, ...so be it.

[Dos Equis]

I told you already. It was from a newspaper article. Unfortunately, I didn't save the link.
I wish I had saved the link, but I didn't, ...and I am not about to go searching through and reading every single article that has been written about this incident.

If the article was inaccurate, ...so be it.

lol.  You didn't save the link??  So what happened to it?  Internet gremlin ate it? 

Why not just admit you made it up?  The truth shall set you free.   

[24KT]

A few months ago someone knocked on my door at about 11pm on a weekday.  I was a little freaked and asked who it was and it was someone visiting my neighbor who mistakenly knock omy door.   I thought about that today and wondered how scared I would be if it was like what Hendrix went trough.  I would have been pretty scared and called the police.   I don't own a gun.  Got a couple of kbars though.  Never would I have left the house.

But, maybe tony is right, maybe him going outside doesn't factor into this charge, we still have Hendrix shooting a unarmed man with no forced entry, only walking towards him.   No way reasonable men feel so threatened they shoot 4 times chest.   

That's why you should keep them in free storage. I don't think you can use them as weapons unless you can throw them like Bullseye from Daredevil, or like the "Card Ninja." 

[24KT]

lol.  You didn't save the link??  So what happened to it?  Internet gremlin ate it? 

Why not just admit you made it up?  The truth shall set you free.   

No, I didn't save the link. The article was shared by a friend in my Facebook feed, and unfortunately I was accessing Facebook via my iPad, using the Facebook app, so it doesn't show you the URL.

Since having posted my statement, and not being able to find the link, I have since discovered how to retrieve a URL from within the Facebook app, without losing your place in the newsfeed.

I didn't make it up.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure which is worse, ...the insult to my character, ...or to my intelligence.

One would have to be pretty stupid to make up such an easily verifiable or easily discountable lie.

I've done stupid things in my time, ...but I'm not THAT stupid.

[Dos Equis]

No, I didn't save the link. The article was shared by a friend in my Facebook feed, and unfortunately I was accessing Facebook via my iPad, using the Facebook app, so it doesn't show you the URL.

Since having posted my statement, and not being able to find the link, I have since discovered how to retrieve a URL from within the Facebook app, without losing your place in the newsfeed.

I didn't make it up.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure which is worse, ...the insult to my character, ...or to my intelligence.

One would have to be pretty stupid to make up such an easily verifiable or easily discountable lie.

I've done stupid things in my time, ...but I'm not THAT stupid.

Meltdown.  You'd never make anything up that could be easily refuted?  You mean like this:

The shooting occured at 2:30am, HOWEVER, it was earlier in the day that the elderly man had his encounter with the police officer who suggested he go home because he was dressed inappropriately for the weather.

The encounter with the cop was at 2:30 a.m. and the shooting was 4 a.m.  Why did you say something that could be so easily refuted?

Or how about the time you claimed to have an IQ higher than Albert Einstein?  lol

[24KT]

Meltdown.  You'd never make anything up that could be easily refuted?  You mean like this:

WTF!?  What meltdown? I simply explained what happened and why.

The encounter with the cop was at 2:30 a.m. and the shooting was 4 a.m.  Why did you say something that could be so easily refuted?

It's called an error. I'm sure you've not only heard of them, but made many of them, and will make many more.

Or how about the time you claimed to have an IQ higher than Albert Einstein?  lol

I never claimed to have an IQ higher than Einstein.
In a private message many years ago, McFarland asked me what my IQ was.
It was such an out of the blue question, i really didn't think anything of it, so gave him the number, and also added, that I thought the number was unimportant. Not realizing what a duplicitous and indiscreet son of a bitch he was, he went on to selectively divulge the contents of our conversation with others. At some point, someone else came in and said that was also Einstein's IQ. If that were the case, then Einstein, who was diagnosed as retarded as a child would barely have squeaked into Mensa, because that is the minimum requirement to get in, and for me, that was it's only significance to me.

There are plenty of people all over the world who have higher IQ's than Einstein. I never claimed to be one of them.

[OzmO]

Ozmo this is silly.  Even the reporters aren't making a distinction.  From the most recent story I found:  "Hendrix then went into the backyard of the home he rented in the Chickamauga area, confronted Westbrook and fired his handgun four times at the man, sheriff's officials said. No charges have been filed."

http://www.myfox28columbus.com/template/cgi-bin/archived.pl?type=basic&file=/shared/news/features/top-stories/stories/archive/2013/11/GDrQytVT.xml#.UrHSeZHDNuY

You tell me:

Is he is name on the lease?

Did he rent a separate apartment?

Either he lives at separate place and isn't on the lease or not. If not its NOT his property.  PERIOD.  He's a "guest" as Jags pointed out.

Are you just bringing up some article where says its his place to back peddle from the argument or what?  reporters say all kind of shit.  Its either his property or not.  stop trying to make something that isn't there.

And now you're calling the woman his "girlfriend"?  Was that just a typo?

yep.

Regarding someone trying to open another person's door at 4 a.m., I am saying there is no difference in the mind of a reasonable homeowner between someone trying to open a door at 4 a.m., twice, and someone trying to pick a lock, etc.  How the heck is the homeowner supposed to know the person isn't trying to "pick the lock" when they're turning the door handle?  That's just crazy.  You cannot use hindsight to try and evaluate whether a person acted reasonably.

Have a someone go outside your house, knock on the door, ring the door bell and jiggle the door handle.  Wait 1 minute then have them start raking the lock with a bobby pin which will simulate what's it like to pick a lock.

Seriously Beach are you just being daft on purpose here, because if you can't figure that out i don't know what to tell you.

Also, you should slow your roll on this.  Tony has been on the money.  You've said stuff like this:



 

I was saying you actually have to be in danger (defined as imminent death or injury) to justify the use of deadly force.  Tony was saying that a reasonable man standard is applied.  He provided some material on it.  So i changed my argument starting from the POV of a reasonable man which results in the same outcome.  A reasonable man doesn't shot a person 4 times in the chest who is NOT forcing entry nor is armed, not responding and walking towards him in that situation.

Now, understand, I asked Tony if he is a lawyer or is in Law school.  He never answered.  I don't think he is and i am not.  The reasonable person thing makes some sense to me but ALSO we have the Georgia law cited about forced entry and using deadly force which weighs into this situation because Hendrix, if a reasonable person, doesn't feel he is in imminent danger of death and injury if there is NO forced entry.

[OzmO]

That's why you should keep them in free storage. I don't think you can use them as weapons unless you can throw them like Bullseye from Daredevil, or like the "Card Ninja." 

They are combat knives.  So i don't know what you mean.

[Dos Equis]

WTF!?  What meltdown? I simply explained what happened and why.

It's called an error. I'm sure you've not only heard of them, but made many of them, and will make many more.

I never claimed to have an IQ higher than Einstein.
In a private message many years ago, McFarland asked me what my IQ was.
It was such an out of the blue question, i really didn't think anything of it, so gave him the number, and also added, that I thought the number was unimportant. Not realizing what a duplicitous and indiscreet son of a bitch he was, he went on to selectively divulge the contents of our conversation with others. At some point, someone else came in and said that was also Einstein's IQ. If that were the case, then Einstein, who was diagnosed as retarded as a child would barely have squeaked into Mensa, because that is the minimum requirement to get in, and for me, that was it's only significance to me.

There are plenty of people all over the world who have higher IQ's than Einstein. I never claimed to be one of them.

Dude I make mistakes all the time.  What I don't do is just make stuff up, like you (and 240).  What is the source for your claim that the cop encountered him earlier in the day and the shooting was 2:30 a.m.?  

Regarding your IQ, you "never claimed to have an IQ higher than Einstein"?  O Rly?  

I was a finalist in a beauty pageant, I was twice elected to serve a constituency of 18,000+ across Canada, worked within budgets larger than Wasilla's, have an IQ of 160,

"Only approximately 1% of all the people in the world have an IQ higher than 135."  "Albert Einstein (Physicist) 160"

http://www.cse.emory.edu/sciencenet/mismeasure/genius/research04.html

And your story is fabricated.  It was you, unsolicited, who claimed your IQ was 160.  I was the one who pointed out it was the same as Einstein.  Why do you say things that are so easily refuted?  

[Dos Equis]

You tell me:

Is he is name on the lease?

Did he rent a separate apartment?

Either he lives at separate place and isn't on the lease or not. If not its NOT his property.  PERIOD.  He's a "guest" as Jags pointed out.

Are you just bringing up some article where says its his place to back peddle from the argument or what?  reporters say all kind of shit.  Its either his property or not.  stop trying to make something that isn't there.
yep.
 

Have a someone go outside your house, knock on the door, ring the door bell and jiggle the door handle.  Wait 1 minute then have them start raking the lock with a bobby pin which will simulate what's it like to pick a lock.

Seriously Beach are you just being daft on purpose here, because if you can't figure that out i don't know what to tell you.
I was saying you actually have to be in danger (defined as imminent death or injury) to justify the use of deadly force.  Tony was saying that a reasonable man standard is applied.  He provided some material on it.  So i changed my argument starting from the POV of a reasonable man which results in the same outcome.  A reasonable man doesn't shot a person 4 times in the chest who is NOT forcing entry nor is armed, not responding and walking towards him in that situation.

Now, understand, I asked Tony if he is a lawyer or is in Law school.  He never answered.  I don't think he is and i am not.  The reasonable person thing makes some sense to me but ALSO we have the Georgia law cited about forced entry and using deadly force which weighs into this situation because Hendrix, if a reasonable person, doesn't feel he is in imminent danger of death and injury if there is NO forced entry.

I have no idea if his name was on the lease.  That doesn't matter.  That's really a dumb non-issue.  Nobody is talking about it.  I posted the article simply to show the media doesn't care if his name is on the lease.  If law enforcement or the prosector makes this an issue, then you'll have obviously have a point.  Until then, it's just message board nonsense. 

The point of me showing you your prior comments is you were actually ridiculing Tony because he didn't agree with your belief that you have to actually be in danger to use deadly force.  You're using the same kind of arguments here (ones that really don't make sense).  I understand you changed your position, but I mean think about it:  under your old position, which you all but called Tony stupid for not agreeing with, a person could not use deadly if force if someone was pointing an unloaded gun at them threatening to shoot them (and the person being threatened didn't know the gun was unloaded).  That really makes no sense.  You don't need to know the law to realize that's not a reasonable position.   

You're doing the same thing with the whole intruder aspect.  Trying to actually make a distinction between someone trying to open a door at 4 a.m., twice, and "picking a lock" is not reasonable, particularly when someone was at the house about a week or so beforehand.  All I'm saying is you might want to pull back a bit. 

[24KT]

They are combat knives.  So i don't know what you mean.

Oh, ...my mistake. I often hear the word "kbars" as an abbreviated reference for something else entirely.

I really should have known better. 

[24KT]

Dude I make mistakes all the time.  What I don't do is just make stuff up, like you (and 240).  What is the source for your claim that the cop encountered him earlier in the day and the shooting was 2:30 a.m.?  

As I stated earlier, that was an error on my part. I thought the shooting occurred at 2:30am, and the encounter with the police occurred earlier in the day. It was an error. Capisce?

Regarding your IQ, you "never claimed to have an IQ higher than Einstein"?  O Rly?  

Really.

"Only approximately 1% of all the people in the world have an IQ higher than 135."  "Albert Einstein (Physicist) 160"

http://www.cse.emory.edu/sciencenet/mismeasure/genius/research04.html

Well, if that is correct, then I guess it places me within the 1%.
Personally, I'd rather be in the 1% that Fed Policies and Wall Street cater to, but hey, at least I'm in the 1% 

And your story is fabricated.  It was you, unsolicited, who claimed your IQ was 160.  I was the one who pointed out it was the same as Einstein.  Why do you say things that are so easily refuted?  

No, it was McFarland and Bast who first brought it out on the boards. In the above referenced quote, (fully taken out of context,) I was simply re-iterating information previously exposed by others, and making a comparison.

YOU are the one who is making things up, and trying to attack a poster, due to your own inability to support a very stupid argument.

[Dos Equis]

As I stated earlier, that was an error on my part. I thought the shooting occurred at 2:30am, and the encounter with the police occurred earlier in the day. It was an error. Capisce?

Really.

Well, if that is correct, then I guess it places me within the 1%.
Personally, I'd rather be in the 1% that Fed Policies and Wall Street cater to, but hey, at least I'm in the 1% 


No, it was McFarland and Bast who first brought it out on the boards. In the above referenced quote, (fully taken out of context,) I was simply re-iterating information previously exposed by others, and making a comparison.

YOU are the one who is making things up, and trying to attack a poster, due to your own inability to support a very stupid argument.

So you have an IQ that makes you one of the smartest persons (by IQ standards) on the planet?  That is laugh out loud funny.   

Yet, here you claimed it is only 140 after I told you your IQ was the same as Einstein.

Quote
Quote from: jaguarenterprises on June 26, 2008, 03:00:42 PM
 wtf?!

{blush}      oh poop! ...I made a mistake.     It's actually 140, not 160.

My mistake. It's only 140. I knew it was a number that just barely squeeked me into the category of "genius", but I'm not claiming to be on the same level as Einstein. It's no big deal, it's just a number that represents potential.

Thanks for posting that link BB.

So is it 140 or 160? 

[Archer77]

So you have an IQ that makes you one of the smartest persons (by IQ standards) on the planet?  That is laugh out loud funny.   

Yet, here you claimed it is only 140 after I told you your IQ was the same as Einstein.

So is it 140 or 160? 

Like I said in the other thread, if you placed an IQ test in front of the decomposed body of Einstein and one in front of 24, I guarantee their scores would be identical. 

But let's assume she did score 140.  We must rememebr that because of certain anatomical advantages, 24k can easily cheat without being detected.  One eye on her test and another on the Asian test taker seated next to her.  None the wiser.

[Dos Equis]

Like I said in the other thread, if you placed an IQ test in front of the decomposed body of Einstein and one in front of 24, I guarantee their scores would be identical. 

But let's assume she did score 140.  We must rememebr that because of certain anatomical advantages, 24k can easily cheat without being detected.  One eye on her test and another on the Asian test taker seated next to her.  None the wiser.

Well it was 140 or 160.  She's said both.  I'm confused.  I need clarification.  Very important to know if we are in the presence of greatness.   

[Archer77]

Well it was 140 or 160.  She's said both.  I'm confused.  I need clarification.  Very important to know if we are in the presence of greatness.   

She may also be dyslexic and really scored 0.61