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Author Topic: Just did legs -- feel like crap  (Read 3415 times)
pellius
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RIP Keith Jones aka OnlyMe/NoWorries. 1/10/2011


« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2018, 01:38:23 AM »

Fear no man, Pellius! I merely give you a possible way to do something interesting and beneficial at the same time. The word 'fitness' is somewhat controversial because we can always ask fit for what? If you use physical culture to prepare you for any attack or calamity then good for you. I don't knock others who do extreme things. Gives those people a purpose and direction. All I am arguing is that hypertrophy is possible in old age. This isn't what we believed in the past and many today still don't believe it. Why not do an experiment with your own body to see what the reality is? Of course, no additional size will appear unless one eats enough to make that possible.

The awful truth about hypertrophy training for advanced trainees is it is brutal and taxing. Not at all something one looks forward to. Especially when you have to keep pushing the limits regarding reps and resistance. Always towards progression. Yes, a lot to go through for very little gain. However, it is nice to look at most males out there and know you have bigger arms than them and are vastly stronger as well. I have a friend who hasn't seen me in a couple of years. He was astonished at the size of my triceps. So there you are gains are still possible even when you are 76 years old.


Do the experiment on yourself first. That's what I did on my calves and it worked. Something you have never seen anyone do on their calves in the the decades you've been involved in bbing.

And as far as your "astonishingly" large arms, you know Arthur Jones, the real genius in this game, "You can't flex fat."
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pellius
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« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2018, 01:46:56 AM »

Sorry Prime, I just realized you were talking to Vince and not me.
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Vince B
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« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2018, 02:26:17 AM »

Do the experiment on yourself first. That's what I did on my calves and it worked. Something you have never seen anyone do on their calves in the the decades you've been involved in bbing.

And as far as your "astonishingly" large arms, you know Arthur Jones, the real genius in this game, "You can't flex fat."


When I last competed I enjoyed having reasonably big arms. That was 43 years ago. In 1999 I had another go at my arms and got them bigger than ever which was satisfying. Over the last 2 years I trained arms once a week. They are strong and solid. Triceps are stronger than ever which is an achievement at my age.
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pellius
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RIP Keith Jones aka OnlyMe/NoWorries. 1/10/2011


« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2018, 02:38:05 AM »

Fear no man, Pellius! I merely give you a possible way to do something interesting and beneficial at the same time. The word 'fitness' is somewhat controversial because we can always ask fit for what? If you use physical culture to prepare you for any attack or calamity then good for you. I don't knock others who do extreme things. Gives those people a purpose and direction. All I am arguing is that hypertrophy is possible in old age. This isn't what we believed in the past and many today still don't believe it. Why not do an experiment with your own body to see what the reality is? Of course, no additional size will appear unless one eats enough to make that possible.

The awful truth about hypertrophy training for advanced trainees is it is brutal and taxing. Not at all something one looks forward to. Especially when you have to keep pushing the limits regarding reps and resistance. Always towards progression. Yes, a lot to go through for very little gain. However, it is nice to look at most males out there and know you have bigger arms than them and are vastly stronger as well. I have a friend who hasn't seen me in a couple of years. He was astonished at the size of my triceps. So there you are gains are still possible even when you are 76 years old.


Do you ever listen to yourself? Do you step outside of yourself for some self-reflection and ponder what you say? How many times you contradict yourself or say something that is just patently wrong and has been proven wrong by real scientific result and real-world observable results.

"Pellius does all manner of different things but stays the same. Whatever is the purpose of doing that?"
Then you say even after I gave you credit for cutting back my protein intake by over 50%.
"Seems to me Pellius is too set in his ways re training and diet.
"because of repeating the same old workouts.

"With any moving system differences occur which means you cannot always repeat what you did before."

"Pellius have you tried cutting out most of your training? "
Even after I said that I train twice a week and hour per session. You're sound like Mentzer later in life when he took Jones' concept of infrequent training to an extreme.

"I retrain the muscle even though sore. In this way, I hope to keep the muscle in a state of steady growth. I know this works."
No you don't. It never works. When your muscle is sore it's still in a catabolic state not in a state of growth. It's still broken down. You have to heal it first before you can build upon that. You watched the vid where John Meadows explains this. It has been proven scientifically, and it comports with common sense. "You have to fill the hole first before you can make it into a hill. You relate some unproven experiment where you say your arms have gotten larger. If this was such a breakthrough where are the pics? Anybody can get larger arms by just gaining weight. My neighbor, a woman, has arms that easily exceed 20 inches. In contrast, I have proven my "hypertrophy theory" and put on real lean substantial muscle with no change in body weight by constantly finding new ways to increase intensity and stimulate the muscle and always -- ALWAYS -- being sure I was fully recovered and any latent soreness was completely gone.
  
"Try to gain some size. It is not a given that as we age we lose muscle"
It's really puzzling that someone I consider a thinker and intelligent could make such a colossally ignorant statement. One that is proven wrong by real scientific evidence with billions of real-world examples of how, no matter what you do, you will grow old weak, lose bodily and cognitive function, and yes, lose muscle, and then you die. You lose so much credibility when you make a claim that everybody knows, observes, and will experience, is wrong. It just goes to show that when someone has an agenda they will even lie to themselves than seek the, in this case, obvious truth.

"So please explain why you need those brutal workouts?"
I'll let you explain it.
"The awful truth about hypertrophy training for advanced trainees is it is brutal and taxing. Not at all something one looks forward to. Especially when you have to keep pushing the limits regarding reps and resistance. Always towards progression."

Everybody clearly sees and understands the point I am making here. Your inconsistencies and torrential flow of illogic. But you don't. The sad part is that you will go to your grave believing you were right and the rest of the world was wrong.

You may get away with lying to yourself but nobody here -- absolutely nobody -- buys into your nonsense.

 
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pellius
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« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2018, 02:45:10 AM »


When I last competed I enjoyed having reasonably big arms. That was 43 years ago. In 1999 I had another go at my arms and got them bigger than ever which was satisfying. Over the last 2 years I trained arms once a week. They are strong and solid. Triceps are stronger than ever which is an achievement at my age.

Nobody notices any difference in your arm development over the last ten years. You can say anything you want. How strong they are, how solid, how your triceps are stronger but none of this can be proven by pics nor by function. And nobody here takes you seriously. You are becoming an ongoing joke on this board and being dismissed as a senile old man living in a fantasy wolrd. This bothers me because I would think a man with your past and history would have more dignity.
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Vince B
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« Reply #80 on: December 07, 2018, 03:15:24 AM »

Nobody notices any difference in your arm development over the last ten years. You can say anything you want. How strong they are, how solid, how your triceps are stronger but none of this can be proven by pics nor by function. And nobody here takes you seriously. You are becoming an ongoing joke on this board and being dismissed as a senile old man living in a fantasy wolrd. This bothers me because I would think a man with your past and history would have more dignity.


Pellius, stick to things that can be demonstrated by practice and or experiment. When considering a new idea we have to set what we believe aside. We mainly differ about so called recovery. If the body stops synthesising protein after 36 to 48 hours post training why wait longer to train that muscle again? Yes, on the third day. I know this schedule works. I believe Mike Mentzer and Arthur Jones were mistaken about hypertrophy. Intensity is an essential but not sufficient factor. You also need plenty of volume.
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Humble Narcissist
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« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2018, 03:44:08 AM »


Some say that Pellius looks "great". No, but he is lean. That isn't easy to maintain as most of us get older. If we diet the muscle disappears. Quite strange how the body clings to fat and sheds muscle.

What every trainee aims for is the most efficient and effective way to grow muscles. That is what bodybuilding is all about. Well, as we all know, gains can be made over several years just
going to a gym and training hard. However, the goal of maximum hypertrophy is something most never achieve. Why is that? Why do so many train so hard and so long but fail to get big arms for example? Most here have no clue. Pellius does all manner of different things but stays the same. Whatever is the purpose of doing that?

Here is a question that I doubt anyone here can answer. Why does DOMS occur? Why does DOMS occur in advanced trainees? If you think about that phenomenon you might grasp where
I am coming from. Understanding DOMS is the key to maximum hypertrophy. Sure, it is possible to get bigger without getting very sore. However, how then does one get even bigger than
before?

I don't advocate training a muscle every second day but every third day. This is important. Pellius insists on waiting for a muscle to adapt or recover before retraining it. I retrain the muscle even though sore. In this way I hope to keep the muscle in a state of steady growth. I know this works. Sore elsheath that goes over the joint. Elbows and knees have the same concerns. Friction under loads causes damage. For calves avoid ballistic movements done in any volume.


Vince, I kind of agree with your training theory on hypertrophy except for the fact that it assumes you can continue growth throughout life and this is just not possible.Most people start training at a young age and errantly believe it was the training for all their growth when the reality is they probably would weigh the same amount as an adult anyway just with a higher % of body fat and lower % of muscle.  Any adult who has trained 2 years or more is probably maxed out in muscle gains.

Professional bodybuilders might gain a couple pounds of muscle each year from contest to contest and they are juiced to the gills and do bodybuilding full time.  If they are gaining that small amount how could a natural who doesn't lift, eat and juice full time expect to gain anything?

Nick's strength and health youtube channel chronicles his journey to win a natty bodybuilding contest and he went from like 220 lbs all the way down to like 140 lbs.  He looked like a concentration camp prisoner.  This is what really happens when a natty gets in contest shape.

It is great that you are still training and keeping your muscle mass but if you got in "contest" shape you would see that you are much smaller than your Mr. Canada contest shape four decades ago.  I can guarantee your arms would be at least an inch smaller now (real muscle) than they measured in the 70's.  There is simply no way you have gained muscle over the years but just body weight.

After age 35 or 40 most guys are just trying to hang on to past gains.  People let themselves get out of shape and then when they get back in shape they think they are making gains when the reality is they are just going back to where they were before.  I used to think that natty website guy was a pussy but the more articles I read on there the more I realize how right he actually is.

http://nattyornot.com/
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Vince B
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« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2018, 03:58:19 AM »

HN, bodybuilding and age are not the subject of much research. I look at the past champions and most are way down on what they used to be. Well, most stop training like they did when they competed. Muscles atrophy if not stimulated by resistance training. I know protocols that are effective. When applied they enable old men to build larger, stronger muscles. It comes as a surprise to me to find myself getting much stronger in some exercises than when I competed. The hypertrophy training causes real growth without needing any chemical assistance. So many older men resort to HRT and what a pity that is. People prefer the easy way instead of earning muscle growth. As we have seen in this thread most people are unwilling to change what they believe. I am talking to a deaf audience.
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Humble Narcissist
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« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2018, 04:09:35 AM »

HN, bodybuilding and age are not the subject of much research. I look at the past champions and most are way down on what they used to be. Well, most stop training like they did when they competed. Muscles atrophy if not stimulated by resistance training. I know protocols that are effective. When applied they enable old men to build larger, stronger muscles. It comes as a surprise to me to find myself getting much stronger in some exercises that when I competed. The hypertrophy training causes real growth without needing any chemical assistance. So many older men resort to HRT and what a pity that is. People prefer the easy way instead of earning muscle growth. As we have seen in this thread most people are unwilling to change what they believe. I am talking to a deaf audience.
Some are listening and testing your training theory.  A few years ago when you first posted that info I was a lurker and actually started training the arms program you put out.  I think the DOMS theory may be right especially for someone new to training but after a few years we reach our peak.

Do you think there is a genetic limit or do you think humans can continue growth until death?  I have already stated that I think natties are maxed after only a few years of training.

Do you believe you have actually increased muscle mass in the last 10 years or just strength?  Again, I do not think this is possible.  Strength can be increased without muscle gain even though Jones and Mentzer believed otherwise.

If you got down to the body fat % of your Mr. Canada competition do you think you would have larger muscles than you had then?  I would think your arms and legs would be considerably smaller.
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Vince B
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« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2018, 04:30:33 AM »

Some are listening and testing your training theory.  A few years ago when you first posted that info I was a lurker and actually started training the arms program you put out.  I think the DOMS theory may be right especially for someone new to training but after a few years we reach our peak.

Do you think there is a genetic limit or do you think humans can continue growth until death?  I have already stated that I think natties are maxed after only a few years of training.

Do you believe you have actually increased muscle mass in the last 10 years or just strength?  Again, I do not think this is possible.  Strength can be increased without muscle gain even though Jones and Mentzer believed otherwise.

If you got down to the body fat % of your Mr. Canada competition do you think you would have larger muscles than you had then?  I would think your arms and legs would be considerably smaller.


My crucial point re hypertrophy is that growth can occur if DOMS is present the following 2 or three days after a workout. This applies to advanced trainees as well. Sure, it isnít easy to get a muscle like biceps sore, but if you can then growth will follow.

My triceps are far bigger now than when I competed. I conclude that my ideas are correct. Others might dismiss my methods but there you are, everyone is an expert!
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Hulkotron
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« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2018, 05:03:57 AM »

All that knowledge you have. All that first class equipment. All the free time in the world. Yet, you get worse. You do nothing, get softer and weaker, yet you preach and lecture to me, someone who is way above average for my age, as to what I should be doing and how I am wasting my time.

Tomorrow I will be at the gym doing a workout  that I truly believe would kill you. You will continue to shake your head at how no one recognizes and appreciates your genius.

Who is the one wasting their time and their life?

 Cheesy
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illuminati
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« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2018, 05:46:11 AM »

Vince instead of having a go at everyone
Why donít you do an experiment A before & after training your whole body
Not just Arms.

Take full body pics now + weight + body-fat % + body-part measurements
Embark on Your training & diet theories
And say in 16 wks Letís See the transformation along with weight / bodyfat & bodypart measurements

That would be a good way to silence a few & add credibility to what you are saying
In your current state of bodyfat percentage itís meaningless to say youíve gained this or that.
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oldtimer1
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« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2018, 06:09:47 AM »

The old volume vs intensity argument. If intensity was the magic bullet and the most effective way to train the majority of bodybuilders would be training that way. The majority train with volume. Arthur Jones would find a volume trainer and invite them down to Florida then take credit for their success. When Viator was no long on Jones's pay roll he trained with volume.  His third place in the Olympia was by far his best ever physique. He was doing volume and a lot of it. Joe Means is featured throughout  the Nautilus book and was another bodybuilder invited down to Florida. For his contests he did use Nautilus along with conventional weights but he used volume. Sergio is not a product of Nautilus. He spent a couple of weeks down in Florida and was highly paid for that. He trained with a ton of volume prior to Arthur Jones and after Arthur Jones. Even Mentzer in his best condition trained 4 to 6 work sets a body part. The only ones I can see that truly embraced the Jones intensity were guys like Yates, Cardillo (Mr. Canada) and Dave Mastorakis. Here's where someone says they saw the Yates tape and he did plenty of sets. Nope, one set to failure. Those are warm up. You don't take 410lbs for inclines with no warm up sets.  

There is no true definition of high intensity. For some it's one set to failure. For someone like Lee Labrada it's three sets to failure per exercise. Some say train a body part once every 7 to 10 days and others say 2 to 3 times a week. 3 times a week is going back to Darden's many early books. No, we don't have training facts in bodybuilding. We have training theories. If we had training facts we would all doing the same training routine using the same exercises barring injuries and sets. If intensity was the magic bullet then we would do the most intense training we could do. It would be something like 4 sets of one rep per exercise. Highest intensity achieved. Olympic and Power lifters do not train to failure every training session. They cycle their training.

Let me preface what I wrote is that I have been heavily influenced by Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer. When Jones burst onto the scene I read everything he wrote. Ironman Magazine was his platform. I still have his original book that was put together with staples to hold the papers. I still train with low sets. I remember back in the day being selected from my job to go through a high intensity workout by a guy who owned a pure Nautilus and MedX gym. I still think he was trying to kill me. It was a whole body routine. One set to failure and beyond. No warm up. No rest between exercises. I nearly threw up and down on the floor at the end knowing I couldn't stand. There was no way anyone could train like that on a regular basis hence his suggested once every 5 day training session.

My empirical conclusions based on over 40 years of training. Volume has merit. A lot of merit. It's not easy as HIT followers claim. It's like a 400 meter runner saying to a marathoner your training is easy. The 400 meter runner knows he trains more intensely but he would be in world of hurt trying to train like a good marathoner.

My conclusions it that  a bodybuider's muscle is a result of muscular endurance training. This is not to be confused with aerobic cardio training. Yes, two sets is better than one set. Three sets is also better than two but it's better fractionally. You reach a point of diminishing returns. I think all bodybuilders would be better off cycling their their training between volume and intensity.  Many volume trainers use heavy days as their concession to intensity.  Arnold wrote many times he would take an exercise like a bench or deadlift to it's one rep max on a heavy day.

In the end this is nothing but a hobby for the majority of us. Train the way you feel is most effective and gives you the most satisfaction. To say you found the most effective way to train and all should follow your lead is foolish. Like I said before. We have training theories and not training facts. A hard core work ethic will take you far with the only limitations is of course genetic predisposition. On a side note be wary of training advice from steroid users. Consider what they look like if they are clean for 6 months then reevaluate their advice.

On a side note Arthur Jones did not invent the cam he used on his machine. He did not invent pre exhaust. He did not invent selectorized plates on his machine. Not saying this as a dig. His achievements stand on their own.
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CalvinH
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« Reply #88 on: December 07, 2018, 06:16:35 AM »

Sorry Prime, I just realized you were talking to Vince and not me.


Happens with old age...
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« Reply #89 on: December 07, 2018, 12:03:16 PM »

The old volume vs intensity argument. If intensity was the magic bullet and the most effective way to train the majority of bodybuilders would be training that way. The majority train with volume. Arthur Jones would find a volume trainer and invite them down to Florida then take credit for their success. When Viator was no long on Jones's pay roll he trained with volume.  His third place in the Olympia was by far his best ever physique. He was doing volume and a lot of it. Joe Means is featured throughout  the Nautilus book and was another bodybuilder invited down to Florida. For his contests he did use Nautilus along with conventional weights but he used volume. Sergio is not a product of Nautilus. He spent a couple of weeks down in Florida and was highly paid for that. He trained with a ton of volume prior to Arthur Jones and after Arthur Jones. Even Mentzer in his best condition trained 4 to 6 work sets a body part. The only ones I can see that truly embraced the Jones intensity were guys like Yates, Cardillo (Mr. Canada) and Dave Mastorakis. Here's where someone says they saw the Yates tape and he did plenty of sets. Nope, one set to failure. Those are warm up. You don't take 410lbs for inclines with no warm up sets.  

There is no true definition of high intensity. For some it's one set to failure. For someone like Lee Labrada it's three sets to failure per exercise. Some say train a body part once every 7 to 10 days and others say 2 to 3 times a week. 3 times a week is going back to Darden's many early books. No, we don't have training facts in bodybuilding. We have training theories. If we had training facts we would all doing the same training routine using the same exercises barring injuries and sets. If intensity was the magic bullet then we would do the most intense training we could do. It would be something like 4 sets of one rep per exercise. Highest intensity achieved. Olympic and Power lifters do not train to failure every training session. They cycle their training.

Let me preface what I wrote is that I have been heavily influenced by Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer. When Jones burst onto the scene I read everything he wrote. Ironman Magazine was his platform. I still have his original book that was put together with staples to hold the papers. I still train with low sets. I remember back in the day being selected from my job to go through a high intensity workout by a guy who owned a pure Nautilus and MedX gym. I still think he was trying to kill me. It was a whole body routine. One set to failure and beyond. No warm up. No rest between exercises. I nearly threw up and down on the floor at the end knowing I couldn't stand. There was no way anyone could train like that on a regular basis hence his suggested once every 5 day training session.

My empirical conclusions based on over 40 years of training. Volume has merit. A lot of merit. It's not easy as HIT followers claim. It's like a 400 meter runner saying to a marathoner your training is easy. The 400 meter runner knows he trains more intensely but he would be in world of hurt trying to train like a good marathoner.

My conclusions it that  a bodybuider's muscle is a result of muscular endurance training. This is not to be confused with aerobic cardio training. Yes, two sets is better than one set. Three sets is also better than two but it's better fractionally. You reach a point of diminishing returns. I think all bodybuilders would be better off cycling their their training between volume and intensity.  Many volume trainers use heavy days as their concession to intensity.  Arnold wrote many times he would take an exercise like a bench or deadlift to it's one rep max on a heavy day.

In the end this is nothing but a hobby for the majority of us. Train the way you feel is most effective and gives you the most satisfaction. To say you found the most effective way to train and all should follow your lead is foolish. Like I said before. We have training theories and not training facts. A hard core work ethic will take you far with the only limitations is of course genetic predisposition. On a side note be wary of training advice from steroid users. Consider what they look like if they are clean for 6 months then reevaluate their advice.

On a side note Arthur Jones did not invent the cam he used on his machine. He did not invent pre exhaust. He did not invent selectorized plates on his machine. Not saying this as a dig. His achievements stand on their own.
Agreed.  I think Jones was a marketing genius not a scientific genius.  He convinced millions of trainers that working on a Nautilus machine was superior to barbells and dumbbells.  As you said Viator and Olivia both went back to training volume training for their best placings.  Even Mentzer and Yates did split routines which Jones said was unnecessary.  This worked for gym owners as well because the common populace thought they were doing some magical training with the big blue machines.

Almost 50 years after Nautilus was created along with Jones's training theory not a single NFL, NHL, NBA, college football program, olympic weightlifting team, any world class powerlifter, any sprinter or speed athlete on summer or winter olympic teams and any world strongest man contestant trains exclusively like this or with machines.  If Jones were alive today he probably would just say were all idiots and if they trained his way they would be better.

Working 2-3 weeks with volume and then having 1 week of HIT for me seems to work as it shocks the body and also is a nice mental change of pace.
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« Reply #90 on: December 07, 2018, 12:09:57 PM »


I swear, Prime, you come across as a dense individual. The point of trying to trigger hypertrophy in muscles as we age is to get the hormones that are produced in muscular growth. A simple shortcut to the fountain of youth. I don't need any injections or pills or supplements or even a special diet. Compare what I do to what you do. Sure it requires knowledge and heaps of effort but the rewards are there for those who dare.

Tell you what. You do your thing and I'll stick with mine.

Resistance training has been shown to induce significant endogenous hormonal (testosterone (T), GH, IGF-1) elevations. Which is one of the reasons I work out. The reason I'm on TRT is because I have hypogonadism as the result of having had the mumps during puberty which killed my right testicle. Unfortunately, resistance training can't fix that. I've had low test levels my entire adult life.

I tease you about your "safety fat" remark because I think it is funny. A little fat has some benefits. Eons ago when humans had to hunt for food, that fat storage helped us survive through the winters. Fat-soluble vitamins ó A, E, D and K are absorbed in our fat tissue. However, it's less about having the fat, and more about consuming foods that have fat. Fat produces energy. How much fat is stored depends on how much you burn. People have different metabolisms.

Here's the thing, how do you know how much safety fat is actually safe, in terms of good health.  Another thing, our natural body types aren't all alike. Some people, like you, tend to be fatter than other people who tend to be slim, like me.
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Henda
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« Reply #91 on: December 07, 2018, 12:16:54 PM »

Vince has got to be taking the piss, unless he is mentally ill it is impossible for him to look in the mirror and see anything other than a fat sack of shit.
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« Reply #92 on: December 07, 2018, 01:31:43 PM »

I started training at 19.  I was doing HIT the entire time until I was about 45.  After that I started getting injured more frequently, and very tired.  Now at 52, I simply cannot train all-out anymore.  Even with a good diet and plenty of rest it takes days to recover.  Getting old truly sucks.  Still, it's better to be a 'has-been' than a 'wanna-be'.  I'm going to hold off on TRT for as long as possible.
Lol...at 52 Groink was training balls to the wall and was the best built man on Getbig.
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Hulkotron
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« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2018, 01:44:22 PM »

Vince has got to be taking the piss, unless he is mentally ill it is impossible for him to look in the mirror and see anything other than a fat sack of shit.

I would love to hit him in the face with an axe.
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Henda
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« Reply #94 on: December 07, 2018, 02:04:32 PM »

I would love to hit him in the face with an axe.

Haha and he would thoroughly deserve it, Iíd gladly settle for landing a swift well placed uppercut to the underside of his fat saggy 110 year old jaw
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wes
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« Reply #95 on: December 07, 2018, 02:36:15 PM »

Fuck Groink......... 57 years old best shape of my life.

2011,two weeks after my last contests.


* 57 abs.jpg (119.54 KB, 600x800 - viewed 102 times.)
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Brian Poulos
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« Reply #96 on: December 07, 2018, 02:39:33 PM »

Fuck Groink......... 57 years old best shape of my life.

2011,two weeks after my last contests.
Yeah but Groink was natural and you're a walking pharmacy in that picture.

Bicep looks spongy and squishy


"Elf"....LMFAO....get a fucking life.
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Getbig V
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Gender: Male
Posts: 34402


The Power Cosmic


« Reply #97 on: December 07, 2018, 02:42:30 PM »

Yeah but Groink was natural and you're a walking pharmacy in that picture.

Bicep looks spongy and squishy


"Elf"....LMFAO....get a fucking life.
Do you have a comparison photo sir?

I thought so.
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Bevo
Getbig V
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Posts: 11262



« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2018, 02:42:50 PM »

Yeah but Groink was natural and you're a walking pharmacy in that picture.

Bicep looks spongy and squishy


"Elf"....LMFAO....get a fucking life.

Whatís Grionk been up to these days?
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Brian Poulos
Getbig III
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Posts: 357



« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2018, 02:50:30 PM »

Do you have a comparison photo sir?

I thought so.
Comparing you to Groink? You look like shit. HTH
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