Gym Etiquette - Was I Wrong Here?

[webstar]

This from a guy that claims his 3/4 rep squats are clean. 
I'm convinced you're just a cunt at this point in time.

Bhanky, the official squat/form judge

[Van_Bilderass]

Ok - you got it, Van.

So basically do a standard Sustanon cycle - is that 500mg weekly...or 750mg?

And then do 25mg of Anadrol for the first month, and then depending on how things go, I can go 50mg for the next two months?

But you said a 12-week [3-month] cycle is a little on the short side.

How many weeks do you recommend?

You can do 12 weeks but you know how it is, it takes months of hammering lifts to make substantial gains. You can stop it at a predetermined time or you can keep it open, see how you feel and decide then. There maybe isn't a standard test dosage but 500mg seems to be the common newbie starting dose although many gurus advice starting at 200-300 to gauge effects. "NO rush." Duchaine advocated 750-1000 as the best first cycle, "nothing less will do," thought there was something about first cycles, no subsequent cycle would be as effective so you should make sure it's substantial.

If someone who was fairly new I would simply advice starting fairly conservative, do it in blocks, and raise dosages as needed. Or say you find out Anadrol doesn't agree with you, you can't eat and you have headaches and blood pressure spikes. So you swith to Turinabol or Anavar or whatever. But the logical thing is that the cycle gets heavier as you go along to keep making gains. That's why only front loading orals never made sense to me. Like I said, adding an oral for the last 4 weeks makes more sense, you are trying to squeeze everything out of a "cycle."

One of the main concerns to me, especially with my background, is injuries. With steroids you should be extra careful but that isn't easy when you feel strong. Some exercises are high risk, like wide grip benches but then you might need to do it if something like that is included in your sport.

[Van_Bilderass]

Never ran a cycle.

Not anti steroid at all if people want to do it.  If my T levels were low, I'd consider TRT.

But for someone your age to do a potent cycle of a hardcore steroid for local contest is just idiocy in my opinion.  You'll get strong, then lose it, and forever be chasing that time you were on drugs, which will lead to you doing it again.

Also, your brain on drugs that cause aggression and shit might not be the best combo.

It's hard to say when taking risks with drugs is worth it. But a local contest might be more emotionally important for one individual than the WSM is for another. There are lots of old lifters who maybe competed when young and then other things took presedence. You can see them posting their decades old pictures on FB or IG. Some even use them on their dating profiles decades later lol. It was important and it keeps being important in a way for the rest of their lives.

There are some who can switch gears and don't get emotionally addicted to PEDs. Matt seems to be one. Otherwise his first cycle might still be ongoing.

[Grape Ape]

It's hard to say when taking risks with drugs is worth it. But a local contest might be more emotionally important for one individual than the WSM is for another. There are lots of old lifters who maybe competed when young and then other things took presedence. You can see them posting their decades old pictures on FB or IG. Some even use them on their dating profiles decades later lol. It was important and it keeps being important in a way for the rest of their lives.

There are some who can switch gears and don't get emotionally addicted to PEDs. Matt seems to be one. Otherwise his first cycle might still be ongoing.

He's over 40 with kids.

Anadrol shouldn't be involved with any of his personal math.

[MCWAY]

Define "growing"?

I would like to be a little fuller and harder, and I have WAY TOO MUCH EXPERIENCE drug-free to know that natural bodybuilding GOES NOWHERE.

Frank Zane is my height and he was 185-lb while on a boatload of gear.

My goal would just be for my training to be more productive.

.

So what? Zane is 185 in contest shape. That's a far cry from what you're trying to achieve.

And I will make improvements on 1,800 calories daily. But whether I'm at 1,800 or 3,600 daily, I will tell you this for free:

I could follow that exact diet for three months, and get bigger - FATTER - and much stronger, but I would rather make my time in the gym + my calories produce a better outcome.

I'd be doing what I am already doing - just adding PEDs and increasing calories.

What I would like is a STEROID look - not to necessarily be much bigger in terms of body weight, but to be harder and fuller, which I will be.

And therein lies your problem, your fear of getting "FATTER". Risking your health by taking anabolics is somehow safer than getting "FATTER"? I don't think so.

If I train all summer, even on increased calories, it won't be a look that will wow me - I'll just go back to 200-lb again with a 35" waist as seen in my 200-lb natural photo above.

I want to gain LEAN MUSCLE - I'd rather gain 5-lb of actual muscle than do it naturally, and gain that same 5-lb in addition to more body fat.

Why does ANYONE use PED's, MCWAY?

Lol @ gaining muscle naturally. Utter nonsense.

How big is the top 5'10" natural bodybuilder? Even 180-lb?

I have NO INTEREST in eating 4-6K calories daily and bulk to 220 or something. I just want to increase calories and protein, and take PED's, and look better than I ever have.

Nor should have any interest in eating that much, if it's not necessary. You're not in your teens or early 20s anymore. And dollars to donuts, you don't do any physical activities outside the gym.

But listen to what you just said. The top natural bodybuilder is 5'10", 180-lb. Shouldn't that tell you that (since you have a similar goal, albeit you're a bit shorter), you can achieve such without steroids?

Which - I will guarantee you - I will look better than I ever have. Even if in the end, I'm 185-lb.

Although given my thyroid is slow, maybe it's time to stop being 175, and walk around at 190.

I'm just looking to go on a cycle, and with the much faster and more efficient results, be motivated to eat the protein required for gains.

If I like it - and if my health tests are good, I would be willing to consider ramping up my daily caloric intake, and give up my obsession with being in the 170's. I don't eat more because I don't want to compromise my health. And because I compete at u-80kg.

I just want the boost in progress.

I feel I am owed a good cycle - I've also talked about it a lot, and I'd like to do it.

So, you don't want to compromise your health by eating more food; yet you have no problem compromising your health by using anabolics.

More beef, milk, and eggs, BAD!! More Winstrol, Test, and Deca, GOOD!! Am I missing something here?

[Matt]

So, you don't want to compromise your health by eating more food; yet you have no problem compromising your health by using anabolics.

I'm glad you brought this up. The last sentence below outlines this health issue [so scroll down if you want to just read that].

With what LITTLE experience I have with steroids, and what MASSIVE experience I have just being a gym rat [+ with respect, a legit manlet strongman competitor in Canada, who IS actually competitive in my weight class], it has been my personal experience that I could follow a perfect "bro" diet for months on end [three meals a day + three shakes + sufficient hydration + pre-workout supplements, say for instance], yet the pumps I get + MAINTAINING those pumps WOULD STILL be better from using a TINY amount of either Dianabol or Anadrol for instance - even if I am eating "ok", but certainly with nowhere near the devotion of your usual bro diet. And if I am both eating a bro diet AND using MINIMAL amounts of juice, I get a look/pump/physique better than I can ever get naturally.

Do you understand you are talking to a highly decorated autistic Canadian strongman here, MCWAY? 

I have a video on my computer upstairs that I can post - showing what I mean by this subtle difference. But for now, here's me at 165-lb, completely devoid of PED's for years:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ca0pL9SrhjV/

Here's me at 170-lb on 12.5mg Anadrol daily for three weeks - although I can't recall what week this picture was taken:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaijnHhLTmj/

^ And the difference is: the pump in that first picture would be gone in 15 MINUTES - maybe, what, an hour max?

On SMALL amounts of juice, I find I maintain a pump just from moving around!

And maybe that's the difference, MCWAY - maybe it mostly comes down to: I'm just seeking to get that full/pumped look temporarily. Turn some heads, which ANYONE IN SHAPE knows you don't need to be anywhere close to IFBB pro level to turn heads, and that's about it.

I'm not looking to make major gains here, nor willing to severely compromise my health.

Now to your point:

What would compromise my health more - taking X amount of gear and Y amount of food to achieve that look, or to eat Z amount of food [presumably more food], and I can't imagine gaining nearly as much lean mass from just food.

It comes down to this: is one lowly cycle every five years [if that] REALLY so unhealthy?

I'm just not buying it, MCWAY.

And my doctor has always been an athlete, and works with athletes. In fact, my doctor said it wouldn't even impact my blood test if I started the PED's last weekend.

But we're doing ONE final blood test to rule out autoimmune disorders, and he told me not to start until the tests are done. Just to be certain there are no confounding variables.

Do you REALLY think gym rat level cycling is so bad, MCWAY?

Bodybuilders did NOT start dying young until the "chemical era" of bodybuilding, which started with Sonny Schmidt's death in January of 2004.

Also MCWAY - this is a one and done thing with me. Hence, I don't want to go crazy, BECAUSE IN 6-9-12 MONTHS, I will just look like I do now anyway! And may have some post-cycle side effects to deal with.

So I don't want to go nuts here, MCWAY.

What's the alternative for me - using toxic SSRI's? I need to snap myself out of this rut. Nasser [bad example] said young men should use anabolics instead of antidepressants. I'm completely certain, based on my current momentum, that one cycle will snap me out of my current psychological state, and with my new devotion to training again, I will stay out of it.

I'm already feeling much better just with gyms open. But I think this will really get me back to normal. In other words - I'm prepared to sacrifice some physical health for my improved psychological health/wellbeing.

[Matt]

You can do 12 weeks but you know how it is, it takes months of hammering lifts to make substantial gains. You can stop it at a predetermined time or you can keep it open, see how you feel and decide then. There maybe isn't a standard test dosage but 500mg seems to be the common newbie starting dose although many gurus advice starting at 200-300 to gauge effects. "NO rush." Duchaine advocated 750-1000 as the best first cycle, "nothing less will do," thought there was something about first cycles, no subsequent cycle would be as effective so you should make sure it's substantial.

If someone who was fairly new I would simply advice starting fairly conservative, do it in blocks, and raise dosages as needed. Or say you find out Anadrol doesn't agree with you, you can't eat and you have headaches and blood pressure spikes. So you swith to Turinabol or Anavar or whatever. But the logical thing is that the cycle gets heavier as you go along to keep making gains. That's why only front loading orals never made sense to me. Like I said, adding an oral for the last 4 weeks makes more sense, you are trying to squeeze everything out of a "cycle."

One of the main concerns to me, especially with my background, is injuries. With steroids you should be extra careful but that isn't easy when you feel strong. Some exercises are high risk, like wide grip benches but then you might need to do it if something like that is included in your sport.

I'm really tempted to go to that 750-1000mg weekly range, even if not at the very start.

Keep in mind, I was highly cautious with my first two cycles at 500mg + front-loaded Dbol. Those were in 2004 and 2005. In 2006, I attempted to do a proper "intermediate" cycle of 500mg Test, 250mg EQ weekly + front-loaded Dbol, but had to cut it off after eight weeks due to my first and last bout with bacterial pneumonia.

But now, as I see no reason to rush things...hmm...maybe I could do 500mg Sustanon weekly to start + the 12.5mg of Anadrol daily, then increase the Anadrol in the second and third months, or - something else incremental like that.

Speaking of injuries - might the lack of PED's be the reason why I've never been injured before?

A classic Getbigger told me that almost everyone on steroids will eventually be injured. Is that because muscles strengthen out of proportion with tendons and ligaments, and something years?

Maybe I will follow more of a bodybuilder program if I do this - clean up my form, and leave a rep or two in the tank, just to prevent injury. I always train to failure, as I find it hard to judge what a "rep or two" left is.

But I don't want to risk an injury at my age - especially because I have so little muscle fiber density in my chest, biceps, legs...I have no muscle to tear. It's not going to be like Kevin Levrone, who tore a pec, yet no one would even notice it.

This may be hard when you feel strong, as you said, but this almost IS like a first cycle to me...and I don't want to mess it up.

I don't see the issue with a one-off cycle.

Thanks Van.

[wes]

Matt Vans point was exactly the reason why I told you not to take Drol in that other thread,,,,especially at that insane daily dosage......you can do great with just Test....our natural Test levels teadily but slowly decrease once we hit the age of twenty five...but your choice...........persona lly I have never had any problems using gear but I never went insane dosage wise.....never relied solely on it like some guys using it as just a quick shortcut,always ate good,and trained like a hound released from the depths of Hell,and mostly used it to retain what little muscle my poor genetics allowed me to build while dieting for a show.....I love training my balls off better than almost anything other than fishy slit.  LOL

PARSH

[Matt]

Matt Vans point was exactly the reason why I told you not to take Drol in that other thread,,,,especially at that insane daily dosage......you can do great with just Test....iur natural Tet levels teadily but slowly decrease once we hit the age of twenty five...but your choice...........persona lly I have never had any problems using gear but I never went insane dosage wise.....never relied solely on it like some guys using it as just a quick shortcut,always ate good,and trained like a hound released from the depths of Hell,and mostly used it to retain what little muscle my poor genetics allowed me to build while dieting for a show.....I love trainging my balls off better than almost anything other than fishy slit.  LOL

PARSH

Hey, thanks wes!!! I have not had any slit since July...maybe that's driving my low T? Come to think of it, I don't think I've had a parsh since then either. 

But seriously, it may be time to re-incorporate women into my life...that may legitimately be impacting my hormones.

On that note:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=421936.msg9792836#msg9792836

Bah!

Any time I read of a young bodybuilder death, I always reconsider my cycle plans! 

wes - tell me how you think I should do it?

I'm willing to go to the 750-1000mg weekly total gear range for 12 weeks - if not a little longer.

FYI, I saw results - subtle, but...results - on 12.5mg of Anadrol daily.

And I have access to the same brand now, so...I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but I've just been feeling so lousy.

I also don't want to UNDER-DO it.

You know?

Thanks wes. 

[wes]

Matt....5 hundred mgs. a week of Sustanon.... broken up into two shots of 250mgs. each shot....Mon. and Thurs......nothing else needed brother, your system/receptors are clean and.....you`ll make insane progress and it`s a moderate dosage.....trust me on that.

Just eat good and continue training hard of course

[Walter Sobchak]

Matt....5 hundred mgs. a week of Sustanon.... broken up into two shots of 250mgs. each shot....Mon. and Thurs......nothing else needed brother, your system/receptors are clean and.....you`ll make insane progress and it`s a moderate dosage.....trust me on that.

Just eat good and continue training hard of course

Jesus fuck why are you responding to this attention-whoring mope?

FFS he’s a half-cycle away from being the next school mass shooter.

He’s a 40 year old mess…he will be fucking suicidal when he does his drug stack and finds out he is still a skinny weak manlet with shitty genetics.

[wes]

Come on now Walt. LOL 

[Grape Ape]

Come on now Walt. LOL 

Walt's right.  He shouldn't go near anabolics.

[Vince B]

Getbig is the last place to get healthy advice about bodybuilding. Just about everyone around here subscribes to the you-need-drugs-to-grow nonsense. Doesn't surprise me because most have no clue how to get results past a certain point. When the drugs fail to deliver we hear that the hapless dudes 'don't have the genetics!'. These beliefs have destroyed bodybuilding and many lives.

[wes]

Getbig is the last place to get healthy advice about bodybuilding. Just about everyone around here subscribes to the you-need-drugs-to-grow nonsense. Doesn't surprise me because most have no clue how to get results past a certain point. When the drugs fail to deliver we hear that the hapless dudes 'don't have the genetics!'. These beliefs have destroyed bodybuilding and many lives.

The sole reason for that Vince is because you have failed after many years of gabbing about it to ever reveal your secret to hypertrophy.

[wes]

Walt's right.  He shouldn't go near anabolics.

He asked my opinion G.A......it`s solely up to him.....I have never once tried to convince anyone to gear up, just somply answered his questions and told him my thoughts.....the ball is in his court...he was the one interested in using,I certainly didn`t plant that seed in his brain.

Personal Decision Of Peace my friend......his decision,not mine.....I`m not the bad guy here. 

It actually affects me not whether he stays clean or uses....I will respect his power either way.

[Hulkotron]

Getbig is the last place to get healthy advice about bodybuilding. Just about everyone around here subscribes to the you-need-drugs-to-grow nonsense. Doesn't surprise me because most have no clue how to get results past a certain point. When the drugs fail to deliver we hear that the hapless dudes 'don't have the genetics!'. These beliefs have destroyed bodybuilding and many lives.

Pipe down you old queen

[Walter Sobchak]

Walt's right.  He shouldn't go near anabolics.

All I’m going to say is that is the last guy who should be taking bodybuilding or recreational drugs.

Of any kind.

[Skeletor]

Getbig is the last place to get healthy advice about bodybuilding. Just about everyone around here subscribes to the you-need-drugs-to-grow nonsense. Doesn't surprise me because most have no clue how to get results past a certain point. When the drugs fail to deliver we hear that the hapless dudes 'don't have the genetics!'. These beliefs have destroyed bodybuilding and many lives.

Did you take drugs to get in this shape?

[Matt]

Walt's right.  He shouldn't go near anabolics.

Walt? Walter Sobchak? The guy who has to post behind a screen name because he isn't able to post under his true identity, because he needs to keep his 9 to 5 job to pay his bills?

Lol, the same loser who has to work for a living? HAHAHA.

What's he saying? That I won't get results on a cycle?

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

I already warm up with that asshole's workout, I AM CERTAIN.

This board - mainly scum like him - are so full of shit.

In 2007, we had a contest - calling out The True Adonis' claim of doing a 225-lb deadlift for 112 reps.

So anyway, a handful of us submitted videos. I got 23 reps, and was 2nd or 3rd place.

I will bet ANY money I could beat that stupid asshole Walter Sobchak at ANY LIFT, ANY TIME, on cycle or off.

I'd even given him an 80-lb body weight advantage AND not use gear.

I had - pre-pandemic - bench pressed 250 for 17 REPS.

I will hit 20 - easy - on the weakest cycle possible.

I'm not just confident about this - I am willing to bet money on that.

God, this board is so full of shit sometimes.

I am quite confident that I will have a very good cycle. I am also confident that I will just overall feel better, and it will help me cope with living in a quasi-dictatorship here in Canada.

And one thing I would bet ANY money on, is I will be one of the strongest on this board, and WITHOUT A DOUBT, the strongest for my size.

Doctors prescribe sad people benzodiazepines to essentially zombify them when they are depressed. I would much rather just do a decent cycle, and go from there.

If I start getting side effects - I'm done. I'll jump ship. The end.

I see no issues here.

[Matt]

Did you take drugs to get in this shape?

If Vince is legitimately drug-free there - and I mean, absolutely drug-free, save for those desicated liver capsules, or whatever else they had in 1970 - that is incredible.

Even if he is on gear, that's an impressive physique.

Personally, I am realistic about my strengths and weaknesses - I expect to come out of this with decent delts and arms. But not much else. I will likely take a bodybuilding approach to my training though, although my instinct is to lift heavy [for me].

One thing Vince has is very good lats - those sweeping lats in the front double biceps...very impressive. But you either have those or you don't.

This is a comparison between Mark Wahlberg and I - Mark has those sweeping lats, that insert low towards his waist. I don't have anything close to that.

I was watching the second Dustin Poirier vs. Conor McGregor fight - I noticed that I have lats like Poirier [high], whereas McGregor had low lats, closer to how Vince's are.

[Walter Sobchak]

Walt? Walter Sobchak? The guy who has to post behind a screen name because he isn't able to post under his true identity, because he needs to keep his 9 to 5 job to pay his bills?

Lol, the same loser who has to work for a living? HAHAHA.

What's he saying? That I won't get results on a cycle?

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

I already warm up with that asshole's workout, I AM CERTAIN.

This board - mainly scum like him - are so full of shit.

In 2007, we had a contest - calling out The True Adonis' claim of doing a 225-lb deadlift for 112 reps.

So anyway, a handful of us submitted videos. I got 23 reps, and was 2nd or 3rd place.

I will bet ANY money I could beat that stupid asshole Walter Sobchak at ANY LIFT, ANY TIME, on cycle or off.

I'd even given him an 80-lb body weight advantage AND not use gear.

I had - pre-pandemic - bench pressed 250 for 17 REPS.

I will hit 20 - easy - on the weakest cycle possible.

I'm not just confident about this - I am willing to bet money on that.

God, this board is so full of shit sometimes.

I am quite confident that I will have a very good cycle. I am also confident that I will just overall feel better, and it will help me cope with living in a quasi-dictatorship here in Canada.

And one thing I would bet ANY money on, is I will be one of the strongest on this board, and WITHOUT A DOUBT, the strongest for my size.

Doctors prescribe sad people benzodiazepines to essentially zombify them when they are depressed. I would much rather just do a decent cycle, and go from there.

If I start getting side effects - I'm done. I'll jump ship. The end.

I see no issues here.

I’m 100% correct…for Matt Canning it will be either school shooter or suicide.

Fucking spastic little weirdo.

[Skeletor]

If Vince is legitimately drug-free there - and I mean, absolutely drug-free, save for those desicated liver capsules, or whatever else they had in 1970 - that is incredible.

Even if he is on gear, that's an impressive physique.

Personally, I am realistic about my strengths and weaknesses - I expect to come out of this with decent delts and arms. But not much else. I will likely take a bodybuilding approach to my training though, although my instinct is to lift heavy [for me].

One thing Vince has is very good lats - those sweeping lats in the front double biceps...very impressive. But you either have those or you don't.

This is a comparison between Mark Wahlberg and I - Mark has those sweeping lats, that insert low towards his waist. I don't have anything close to that.

I was watching the second Dustin Poirier vs. Conor McGregor fight - I noticed that I have lats like Poirier [high], whereas McGregor had low lats, closer to how Vince's are.

Vince said he took Dianabol.

[Matt]

Vince said he took Dianabol.

Ah. I didn't know that. Thanks, Skeletor.

That said, I still think he has a great physique there, whether using some Dianabol or not.

For me, my reason for doing an intermediate cycle is just to get a notion of how I will look while on. I really don't believe anyone is much successful bodybuilding naturally.

Skeletor - do you ever see yourself after a pump on chest day and wish you looked that way all the time? Frankly, I'd be pleased if I could maintain a look like that...instead of my muscles getting as flat as a pancake within an hour after my workout...

[Vince B]

I took 2 Dianabol for a few months. Vitamin C and B, that's it. Nowadays I don't need drugs or supplements except for magnesium and vitamin D. Matt needs to bulk up eating 3000+ calories a day. See how that goes then reassess what to do. No steroids for first 12 years and zero since 1977.