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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 09:12:18 PM

Title: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 09:12:18 PM
Look VERY Impressive when he diets down.  The lot of you will be eating crow in a very short time.

AXA,

I offer my full services and will do anything to help bring the zenith of your physique into fruition, whenever the decision is made to prove to the herd-ish and collective masses the culmination of your labor.

Apprise me anytime my friend.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: BFP on November 18, 2008, 09:13:42 PM
Adam, thats nice of you, but youre failing to realize that there has been to well, labor to realize.

Jason
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 09:22:58 PM
I agree with Adam, on the how he will look part.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: just_a_pilgrim on November 18, 2008, 09:24:37 PM
Has Adonis trained anyone who looks like they train when wearing a shirt
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 09:30:28 PM
Has Adonis trained anyone who looks like they train when wearing a shirt

Fars I know he hasn't trained anyone. Actually there was one kid on here that he was helping for a while and I remember reading  that he ended up getting stuck at a certain BF level and then he quit saying that the diet was not for him. He was keeping a journal I believe. Basically eating a bunch of junk, but at a low cal level.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: 240 is Back on November 18, 2008, 09:30:44 PM
he's a very tall guy, and he's already fairly filled out.  He'd look sick if completely diced.  And he's still 10 years away from muscle maturity.  I'd say he's in a great spot.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 09:31:01 PM
Look VERY Impressive when he diets down.  The lot of you will be eating crow in a very short time.

AXA,

I offer my full services and will do anything to help bring the zenith of your physique into fruition, whenever the decision is made to prove to the herd-ish and collective masses the culmination of your labor.

Apprise me anytime my friend.
Thanks Adam, I have never dieted, I hold that bodyfat level while eating 4000-5000 calories a day...I think around 10-13%
I did start my "diet" meaning lowering my calories since I don't limit myself in food selection, I'll let everybody see how this is going by christmas time
I am taking lifting weights seriously too, and going to improve on my physique A LOT this year
I have the structure and just need to fill it with muscle and lower the bodyfat, and I'm willing to put in the hard work it takes
thanks for the support and your advice is ALWAYS welcome bro  :)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: drkaje on November 18, 2008, 09:33:50 PM
Tall skinny guys need help getting skinnier?

Did I miss something?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TommyBoy on November 18, 2008, 09:57:04 PM
AXA will be a damn monster in time. Dude seems to have good proportions structure wise. Just needs to fill out and lose a little BF. Stick to the basics, bro. Squats and deads are your friends.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: BobbyHasBeenBad on November 18, 2008, 10:03:00 PM
AXA is a big fat prick who will look very impressive when he diets.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:05:49 PM
AXA is a big fat prick who will look very impressive when he diets.
LOL
I'm guessing you're the same person who on the other thread said "you don't deserve to look good on the outside cuz you're mean, but you do"
well, thanks again ...I think hahahaha
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 18, 2008, 10:07:02 PM
Look VERY Impressive when he diets down.  The lot of you will be eating crow in a very short time.

AXA,

I offer my full services and will do anything to help bring the zenith of your physique into fruition, whenever the decision is made to prove to the herd-ish and collective masses the culmination of your labor.

Apprise me anytime my friend.

Hahahaha don't make me out you, you fucking tool... how leafy was going to come out with his drug thing, how you dieted your heart out in 2006 and ever since....

Stop lying to people, you're the pathetic getbig incarnation of deception.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 10:08:00 PM
Did Adonis just offer to service AXA?  :-X
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 10:08:45 PM
Hahahaha don't make me out you, you fucking tool... how leafy was going to come out with his drug thing, how you dieted your heart out in 2006 and ever since....

Stop lying to people, you're the pathetic getbig incarnation of deception.

Oh god please please please elaborate!!!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:13:01 PM
AJ is going to get shredded.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: BobbyHasBeenBad on November 18, 2008, 10:15:34 PM
LOL
I'm guessing you're the same person who on the other thread said "you don't deserve to look good on the outside cuz you're mean, but you do"
well, thanks again ...I think hahahaha

That is me yes MemberX thank you.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:18:22 PM
AJ is going to get shredded.
LOL, no Jim, while I have eaten my share of fast food, and the Adonis principles are solid and backed up by science (diet that makes sense)
I think I'm going to follow the "AXA principles" for this one, cuz I know what works for my body and what doesn't by this point in time
if I honestly eat like that, I know that I will BINGE..... ALOT, so it will work against me as time goes by since my will power is not
that strong.....yes... to follow a less restrictive diet
when I do something, I have to do it 100%, complete focus, it's the only way I can do it and stick to my diet, the Adonis principles DO work however
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:24:56 PM
Fars I know he hasn't trained anyone. Actually there was one kid on here that he was helping for a while and I remember reading  that he ended up getting stuck at a certain BF level and then he quit saying that the diet was not for him. He was keeping a journal I believe. Basically eating a bunch of junk, but at a low cal level.
Myth and a lie. 
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:26:07 PM
Hahahaha don't make me out you, you fucking tool... how leafy was going to come out with his drug thing, how you dieted your heart out in 2006 and ever since....

Stop lying to people, you're the pathetic getbig incarnation of deception.
Please out me.  ::)

You are pathetic.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:26:34 PM
Myth and a lie. 


Hit a nerve have I? Prove me wrong then.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 10:27:36 PM
LOL, no Jim, while I have eaten my share of fast food, and the Adonis principles are solid and backed up by science (diet that makes sense)
I think I'm going to follow the "AXA principles" for this one, cuz I know what works for my body and what doesn't by this point in time
if I honestly eat like that, I know that I will BINGE..... ALOT, so it will work against me as time goes by since my will power is not
that strong.....yes... to follow a less restrictive diet
when I do something, I have to do it 100%, complete focus, it's the only way I can do it and stick to my diet, the Adonis principles DO work however

So you've only been training 9 months (lie), and u look like shit (true), and you think you know what works for you?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: onlyme on November 18, 2008, 10:27:53 PM
Has Adonis trained anyone who looks like they train when wearing a shirt

I hate to say it but this is the only student that  graduated Summa Mora Cumm ina Moutha from the concentration training camp of Apenis.  Apenis training AssHoletic is a whole nother "blind leading the blind" saying.  And I think all trainers are ACE ASS certified too.  I swear there are no two guys who talk more shit on here that do nothing.  AssHoletic guaranteed he would win and blow away all the Mr getbig3 competitors.  Apenis just talks and talks and talk but never comes up with anything.  These two should get married
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:28:11 PM

Hit a nerve have I? Prove me wrong then.
Simple. I can`t find a journal nor have any clue who or what you are talking about.
Since you made the assertion, can you please help? Proving a negative is pointless.  Prove to me there isn`t a floating tea cup circling the earth.  Get it? Got it? Good.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:28:51 PM

Hit a nerve have I? Prove me wrong then.
pardon me to interrupt but are we talking about Matt C?  ??? cuz I read that whole thread and it seemed to be water loss he was complaining about not muscle loss
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:29:24 PM
LOL, no Jim, while I have eaten my share of fast food, and the Adonis principles are solid and backed up by science (diet that makes sense)
I think I'm going to follow the "AXA principles" for this one, cuz I know what works for my body and what doesn't by this point in time
if I honestly eat like that, I know that I will BINGE..... ALOT, so it will work against me as time goes by since my will power is not
that strong.....yes... to follow a less restrictive diet
when I do something, I have to do it 100%, complete focus, it's the only way I can do it and stick to my diet, the Adonis principles DO work however


AC, there is nothing scientific about recommending to someone that they eat McDonald's. There was a post some time ago that Adam said he ate ice cream for dinner. He said and I quote "what's wrong with ice cream for dinner?" I asked him what was right with it and he ignored me.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: webcake on November 18, 2008, 10:29:52 PM
So you've only been training 9 months (lie), and u look like shit (true), and you think you know what works for you?

Agreed.

9 months is shit-all training experience. Your still somewhat of a beginner after 9 months...
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 10:30:00 PM
I hate to say it but this is the only student that  graduated Summa Mora Cumm ina Moutha from the concentration training camp of Apenis.  Apenis training AssHoletic is a whole nother "blind leading the blind" saying.  And I think all trainers are ACE ASS certified too.  I swear there are no two guys who talk more shit on here that do nothing.  AssHoletic guaranteed he would win and blow away all the Mr getbig3 competitors.  Apenis just talks and talks and talk but never comes up with anything.  These two should get married

I find it funny how Adonis uses low level lighting in every one of his photos.  ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: onlyme on November 18, 2008, 10:30:37 PM
LOL, no Jim, while I have eaten my share of fast food, and the Adonis principles are solid and backed up by science (diet that makes sense)
I think I'm going to follow the "AXA principles" for this one, cuz I know what works for my body and what doesn't by this point in time
if I honestly eat like that, I know that I will BINGE..... ALOT, so it will work against me as time goes by since my will power is not
that strong.....yes... to follow a less restrictive diet
when I do something, I have to do it 100%, complete focus, it's the only way I can do it and stick to my diet, the Adonis principles DO work however

Take the first fuckin step moron.  Join a gym and start training.  You are a pole with long dirty hair.  Get some fuckin muscle on you. 

I find it funny how Adonis uses low level lighting in every one of his photos.  ::)

It's easier to photoshop
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:30:49 PM
Oh god please please please elaborate!!!
Don`t hold your breath. Fat boy will have you blue in the face before he ever generates a ficticious response.

Alex23 is pathetic.  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:31:43 PM
Simple. I can`t find a journal nor have any clue who or what you are talking about.
Since you made the assertion, can you please help? Proving a negative is pointless.  Prove to me there isn`t a floating tea cup circling the earth.  Get it? Got it? Good.

Exactly, I seem to recall you asking me more than once to "prove" my theories. Now, as far as the kid who stopped using your so called principles I honestly can't recall as I think he no longer posts here. I'm sure someone here will remember. Like I said "he" was keeping a journal not you.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:32:05 PM
pardon me to interrupt but are we talking about Matt C?  ??? cuz I read that whole thread and it seemed to be water loss he was complaining about not muscle loss
I never helped Matt C.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:32:47 PM
Exactly, I seem to recall you asking me more than once to "prove" my theories. Now, as far as the kid who stopped using your so called principles I honestly can't recall as I think he no longer posts here. I'm sure someone here will remember. Like I said "he" was keeping a journal not you.
I was asking for you to prove a positive. You are asking me to prove a negative.  Do you understand the difference?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:34:07 PM
pardon me to interrupt but are we talking about Matt C?  ??? cuz I read that whole thread and it seemed to be water loss he was complaining about not muscle loss


No, this kid was actually a pretty good kid and even when Adam's diet didn't work for him he still talked nice about Adam. He basically said that the diet was not for him after trying it for a while and having it stop working. Apparently Adam didn't know what else to do for him to keep the progress going.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 10:34:16 PM
Don`t hold your breath. Fat boy will have you blue in the face before he ever generates a ficticious response.

Alex23 is pathetic.  

Alex23 is a fun-loving sonofabitch who isn't afraid to throw down a beer or two at the firehouse with his getbig friends.  Yours truly is sitting across from CSwol.  My lady is sandwiched in between me and tommywishbone.  

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:34:36 PM

AC, there is nothing scientific about recommending to someone that they eat McDonald's. There was a post some time ago that Adam said he ate ice cream for dinner. He said and I quote "what's wrong with ice cream for dinner?" I asked him what was right with it and he ignored me.
weight loss is not rocket science (most of the time)
consume less calories than you need and you'll lose weight
that's what the Adonis principles are
it's common sense and it does work, I gotta admit I have done that too  ;D
I was never good with eating a good diet, I just ate what I wanted  :-\
I really don't see things wrong with it, eat the foods you like, just eat less of them, granted it's not the general bodybuilding diet that we're used to
but it's something people can stick to and it does work

but when I get down to about 10% bodyfat, my body just can't STICK to those methods, I cheat alot
this is why I need to restrict myself, cuz I will 100% binge if I don't
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 10:34:46 PM
Agreed.

9 months is shit-all training experience. Your still somewhat of a beginner after 9 months...

I think it takes some time consistently training before you can admit to yourself you have no clue what you're doing.

What I dont get, is how after 9 months of training, a person can have such an in depth knowledge of bodybuilding personalities and history.
Maybe AXA saw a Flex and popped a woodie??
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:37:13 PM
I think it takes some time consistently training before you can admit to yourself you have no clue what you're doing.

What I dont get, is how after 9 months of training, a person can have such an in depth knowledge of bodybuilding personalities and history.
Maybe AXA saw a Flex and popped a woodie??
there are guys that know me on here
"Captain Insano" and he makes jokes about how I have only been training for 2 months
once I got into bodybuilding, I went BACK and studied it's history
what is wrong with that?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:38:26 PM

No, this kid was actually a pretty good kid and even when Adam's diet didn't work for him he still talked nice about Adam. He basically said that the diet was not for him after trying it for a while and having it stop working. Apparently Adam didn't know what else to do for him to keep the progress going.
Lets get this straight.  I have never actively helped anyone from start to finish.  It is an impossibility for any diet to stop working so your assertion makes zero sense. Diets of any kind don`t all of a sudden stop working.

I thought you were a bit smarter than that.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 10:39:00 PM
there are guys that know me on here
"Captain Insano" and he makes jokes about how I have only been training for 2 months
once I got into bodybuilding, I went BACK and studied it's history
what is wrong with that?

Arguing about who should have won the 93 Olympia, is not something you stumble onto in 2 months.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 18, 2008, 10:40:40 PM
Simple. I can`t find a journal nor have any clue who or what you are talking about.
Since you made the assertion, can you please help? Proving a negative is pointless.  Prove to me there isn`t a floating tea cup circling the earth.  Get it? Got it? Good.

i can help you, stupid.

you are 6 foot and 160 pounds.

yeah, your diet is a HUGE muscle builder.  ::)

when you manage to diet yourself or anyone down who doesn't look like an ethopian long distance marathoner afterwards, then you can talk.

until then, your still 6 foot and a buck 60 and not exactly someone you'd seek out for advise.

get it? got it? good.

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 18, 2008, 10:41:19 PM
Agreed.

9 months is shit-all training experience. Your still somewhat of a beginner after 9 months...

I wouldn't be surprised if every 9 months he had a grand epiphany. I know I do. I always think I have things down fairly well, then I make one small tweak in my diet and BOOM!! Muscle, fat loss, whatever... you only know so much about your body. Learning how it responds is a continual process. I'm sure damn near everyone here goes through the same thing. 9 months is nothing at all. But at least it was spent with cognizance... lots of idiots just pick up weights and it takes years before a muscle pops out.

I'd take Jim's advice over anyone else's in this thread though. At this point, I'm eating a good diet, being intuitive and changing my macros for the level of activity I've performed throughout the day (as well incorporating previous training), but also enjoying things too. I'm not too stringent anymore. As long as my macros are loosely in alignment with the abovementioned, I can eat relatively happy without slowing my progress. It's all a matter of balance. I don't compete of course so if things were different, I'd be eating super strict like I used to.

Jim's insight is crazy though. I'm not one to swing off people's nut sacks, but if I had to pick one scrotum to ride as far as dietary advice is concerned, it'd be his!! lol.. err... talking about his dietary advice... I think? It's good shit!! I wish he'd help me with my contest prep if I change my mind some day!! ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:41:54 PM
Arguing about who should have won the 93 Olympia, is not something you stumble onto in 2 months.

for god's sake
I'm sorry I was 4 years old at the 93 Mr. Olympia was going on and didn't discuss it back then  ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 10:42:01 PM
i can help you, stupid.

you are 6 foot and 160 pounds.

yeah, your diet is a HUGE muscle builder.  ::)

when you manage to diet yourself or anyone down who doesn't look like an ethopian long distance marathoner afterwards, then you can talk.

until then, your still 6 foot and a buck 60 and not exactly someone you'd seek out for advise.

get it? got it? good.



TA, what kind of results do you think a pro bodybuilder would get (ie Dexter Jackson) if he followed your diet principles?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:43:08 PM
weight loss is not rocket science (most of the time)
consume less calories than you need and you'll lose weight


Not to put you down bro but you are very wrong. People can vary different metabolically. For example, even though it is very rare I have delt with two people who had thyroid issues. As most people may or may not realize is it's not just a matter of consuming less calories over a period of time. If it were that easy no one would fail on a diet. I have had literally dozens of people come to me who's progress has come to a halt after weeks of dieting no matter how low they go on their calories.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:44:19 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if every 9 months he had a grand epiphany. I know I do. I always think I have things down fairly well, then I make one small tweak in my diet and BOOM!! Muscle, fat loss, whatever... you only know so much about your body. Learning how it responds is a continual process. I'm sure damn near everyone here goes through the same thing. 9 months is nothing at all. But at least it was spent with cognizance... lots of idiots just pick up weights and it takes years before a muscle pops out.

I'd take Jim's advice over anyone else's in this thread though. At this point, I'm eating a good diet, being intuitive and changing my macros for the level of activity I've performed throughout the day (as well incorporating previous training), but also enjoying things too. I'm not too stringent anymore. As long as my macros are loosely in alignment with the abovementioned, I can eat relatively happy without slowing my progress. It's all a matter of balance. I don't compete of course so if things were different, I'd be eating super strict like I used to.

Jim's insight is crazy though. I'm not one to swing off people's nut sacks, but if I had to pick one scrotum to ride as far as dietary advice is concerned, it'd be his!! lol.. err... talking about his dietary advice... I think? It's good shit!! I wish he'd help me with my contest prep if I change my mind some day!! ;D
yes, Jim gives very good advice, and I'd wish he'd help me with contest prep too someday  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 18, 2008, 10:44:35 PM
Lets get this straight.  I have never actively helped anyone from start to finish.  It is an impossibility for any diet to stop working so your assertion makes zero sense. Diets of any kind don`t all of a sudden stop working.

I thought you were a bit smarter than that.

irony.

jim, you catch this? of course you did.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:45:28 PM
Lets get this straight.  I have never actively helped anyone from start to finish.  It is an impossibility for any diet to stop working so your assertion makes zero sense. Diets of any kind don`t all of a sudden stop working.

I thought you were a bit smarter than that.


First of all you are right, about not helping someone from start to finish simply because their progress came to a halt. I guess you answered my second comment with part two of your answer.  ;D   Man you are really ignorant in the true definition of the word when it comes to food and metabolism.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 10:45:43 PM
for god's sake
I'm sorry I was 4 years old at the 93 Mr. Olympia was going on and didn't discuss it back then  ::)

Exactly, so how in 2 months did you become so emotionally invested?
You sure do know an awful lot about it.
Most people work out for years before actually getting into bodybuilding as a sport, if at all....
 ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:46:03 PM
TA, what kind of results do you think a pro bodybuilder would get (ie Dexter Jackson) if he followed your diet principles?
The same as he has been getting.  Look, all diets work. Some are just easier than others. Mine happens to be the most simple and enjoyable therefore better.

Think of it this way, Dexter diets right now on 2500 calories as that is what his video stated.

What I would have him do is, eat about 1 gram per lb of bodyweight protein eating whatever he wants to fullfill that and 2500 calories.

Thats it.  Simple as that.  He would look the exact same as he does but this would make the process easier, enjoyable and keep him from any kind of craving or binge eating.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:47:31 PM
yes, Jim gives very good advice, and I'd wish he'd help me with contest prep too someday  ;D

Go to the positive board bro and you  can see some pics of people who I have trained.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 10:48:07 PM
The same as he has been getting.  Look, all diets work. Some are just easier than others. Mine happens to be the most simple and enjoyable therefore better.

Think of it this way, Dexter diets right now on 2500 calories as that is what his video stated.

What I would have him do is, eat about 1 gram per lb of bodyweight protein eating whatever he wants to fullfill that and 2500 calories.

Thats it.  Simple as that.  He would look the exact same as he does but this would make the process easier, enjoyable and keep him from any kind of craving or binge eating.

In every BFTO video, he eats sushi and teppanyaki post workout!  How the hell could his "diet" be any more enjoyable than that?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 10:48:37 PM
Disgusted gets paid by pros for his insight.
Adonis is offering free e-advice to a durka who looks like crap.
hmmmm
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:49:14 PM
Not to put you down bro but you are very wrong. People can vary different metabolically. For example, even though it is very rare I have delt with two people who had thyroid issues. As most people may or may not realize is it's not just a matter of consuming less calories over a period of time. If it were that easy no one would fail on a diet. I have had literally dozens of people come to me who's progress has come to a halt after weeks of dieting no matter how low they go on their calories.
hence the "(most of the time)"  ;D
you're right, I meant for the average joe trying to lose some fat
let me tell you something
when I first started working out, I wanted a sixpack so bad, I was following an 1500-1800 calorie restriction and doing up to 2 hours of cardio a day
after 2 months I had a HIGHER bodyfat percentage and looked like an anorexic
I actually had to getmyself to eat MORE food and do only 1 hour of cardio and I started to see results so fast I could see where the fat was going
from morning to morning
you're right bro, sometimes you need to eat MORE
I was losing fat despite eating twice as much and actually started to see my abs  :)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 18, 2008, 10:49:22 PM
Disgusted gets paid by pros for his insight.
Adonis is offering free e-advice to a durka who looks like crap.
hmmmm

lmao!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:49:56 PM
Disgusted gets paid by pros for his insight.
Adonis is offering free e-advice to a durka who looks like crap.
hmmmm
uh, I look way better than Disgusted has ever looked.  So your little snide comment at the end does not reciprocate too well in trying to prove your point.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:50:13 PM
The same as he has been getting.  Look, all diets work. Some are just easier than others. Mine happens to be the most simple and enjoyable therefore better.

Think of it this way, Dexter diets right now on 2500 calories as that is what his video stated.

What I would have him do is, eat about 1 gram per lb of bodyweight protein eating whatever he wants to fullfill that and 2500 calories.

Thats it.  Simple as that.  He would look the exact same as he does but this would make the process easier, enjoyable and keep him from any kind of craving or binge eating.


Binge eating? Jesus man, how can someone eat donuts and not binge? Even AC just stated he wouldn't do your diet cause it would cause him to binge and as I recall the same thing happened to the last kid I was talking about.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 18, 2008, 10:50:55 PM
Not to put you down bro but you are very wrong. People can vary different metabolically. For example, even though it is very rare I have delt with two people who had thyroid issues. As most people may or may not realize is it's not just a matter of consuming less calories over a period of time. If it were that easy no one would fail on a diet. I have had literally dozens of people come to me who's progress has come to a halt after weeks of dieting no matter how low they go on their calories.

This is very true.

I've been loosely monitoring my friend's diet and he's tried every approach over the last year. He's done keto, changed his cardio, we've worked on his macro timing, etc... he's lost a ton of weight but still has quite a fair amount of adipose. He has a messed up thyroid and low test. I've urged him to go back to the doc and maybe he'll be seeing an endo soon.

The body is full of very complex systems that are still misunderstood. Bodybuilders have pioneered eccentric ways to solve these challenges though. You just need to isolate and identify what's wrong and try different approaches. A lot of it is hit and miss, or just intermittent. Genetics can be a bitch. I don't claim to be a personal trainer or dietitian or anything, but I've helped out friends and family and everyone is very different. In the beginning, you can simply truncate one's caloric intake, but after they lose water weight and easy pounds it gets MUCH more difficult.

I don't know what Adam's been advocating lately, but for the most part I eat relatively clean... but I give myself some leniency. For carbing up this evening, I just ate a few "Two Bite Brownies" with walnuts lol.... I could have had a low glycemic carbohydrate but I needed a quick fix and ate good enough all day to justify it. Why sit down to a bowl of plain oatmeal, popping K-R-ALA and PLCAR and topping it off with some cinnamon and tuna. Bleh... unless someone's competing or really hitting a plateau, I don't think they need to be too stringent. But then again, I'm not a fatass who needs to lose 40lbs to see an ounce of muscle poke through.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: webcake on November 18, 2008, 10:51:18 PM
uh, I look way better than Disgusted has ever looked.  So your little snide comment at the end does not reciprocate too well in trying to prove your point.

durka = AXA
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:51:26 PM
Exactly, so how in 2 months did you become so emotionally invested?
You sure do know an awful lot about it.
Most people work out for years before actually getting into bodybuilding as a sport, if at all....
 ::)
where did I say two months? I said he made jokes about me only working out for like two months
I have been working out for 9 months
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:52:26 PM
uh, I look way better than Disgusted has ever looked.  So your little snide comment at the end does not reciprocate too well in trying to prove your point.

You do? I have posted pics of myself on stage before. My genetics are far far superior to yours Adam, in fact light years ahead although I have to admit the best built man is not always the smartest.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:53:35 PM
hence the "(most of the time)"  ;D
you're right, I meant for the average joe trying to lose some fat
let me tell you something
when I first started working out, I wanted a sixpack so bad, I was following an 1500-1800 calorie restriction and doing up to 2 hours of cardio a day
after 2 months I had a HIGHER bodyfat percentage and looked like an anorexic
I actually had to getmyself to eat MORE food and do only 1 hour of cardio and I started to see results so fast I could see where the fat was going
from morning to morning
you're right bro, sometimes you need to eat MORE
I was losing fat despite eating twice as much and actually started to see my abs  :)

Good for you. You listened to your body and upped your calories and the fat started to come off again. See what I mean? According to Adam all you had to do was lower them even more.  ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 10:54:21 PM

Binge eating? Jesus man, how can someone eat donuts and not binge? Even AC just stated he wouldn't do your diet cause it would cause him to binge and as I recall the same thing happened to the last kid I was talking about.

What is so difficult about eating one doughnut (250 calories) 2 doughnuts (500) calories and not eating a whole box?

Obviously you have never dined at a respectable restaurant as you would then know the portion sizes used in a decent establishment are single serving.  

Just because you buy a box of cookies, doughnuts, ice cream or whatever does not mean you have to eat the whole thing in one sitting.  There is a little thing called serving sizes you know.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:54:35 PM
This is very true.

I've been loosely monitoring my friend's diet and he's tried every approach over the last year. He's done keto, changed his cardio, we've worked on his macro timing, etc... he's lost a ton of weight but still has quite a fair amount of adipose. He has a messed up thyroid and low test. I've urged him to go back to the doc and maybe he'll be seeing an endo soon.

The body is full of very complex systems that are still misunderstood. Bodybuilders have pioneered eccentric ways to solve these challenges though. You just need to isolate and identify what's wrong and try different approaches. A lot of it is hit and miss, or just intermittent. Genetics can be a bitch. I don't claim to be a personal trainer or dietitian or anything, but I've helped out friends and family and everyone is very different. In the beginning, you can simply truncate one's caloric intake, but after they lose water weight and easy pounds it gets MUCH more difficult.

I don't know what Adam's been advocating lately, but for the most part I eat relatively clean...  but I give myself some leniency. For carbing up this evening, I just ate a few "Two Bite Brownies" with walnuts lol.... I could have had a low glycemic carbohydrate but I needed a quick fix and ate good enough all day to justify it. Why sit down to a bowl of plain oatmeal, popping K-R-ALA and PLCAR and topping it off with some cinnamon and tuna. Bleh... unless someone's competing or really hitting a plateau, I don't think they need to be too stringent. But then again, I'm not a fatass who needs to lose 40lbs to see an ounce of muscle poke through.
there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 10:55:12 PM
This is very true.

I've been loosely monitoring my friend's diet and he's tried every approach over the last year. He's done keto, changed his cardio, we've worked on his macro timing, etc... he's lost a ton of weight but still has quite a fair amount of adipose. He has a messed up thyroid and low test. I've urged him to go back to the doc and maybe he'll be seeing an endo soon.

The body is full of very complex systems that are still misunderstood. Bodybuilders have pioneered eccentric ways to solve these challenges though. You just need to isolate and identify what's wrong and try different approaches. A lot of it is hit and miss, or just intermittent. Genetics can be a bitch. I don't claim to be a personal trainer or dietitian or anything, but I've helped out friends and family and everyone is very different. In the beginning, you can simply truncate one's caloric intake, but after they lose water weight and easy pounds it gets MUCH more difficult.

I don't know what Adam's been advocating lately, but for the most part I eat relatively clean... but I give myself some leniency. For carbing up this evening, I just ate a few "Two Bite Brownies" with walnuts lol.... I could have had a low glycemic carbohydrate but I needed a quick fix and ate good enough all day to justify it. Why sit down to a bowl of plain oatmeal, popping K-R-ALA and PLCAR and topping it off with some cinnamon and tuna. Bleh... unless someone's competing or really hitting a plateau, I don't think they need to be too stringent. But then again, I'm not a fatass who needs to lose 40lbs to see an ounce of muscle poke through.


Can't argue with that.  :)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: gordiano on November 18, 2008, 10:55:27 PM
AJ is going to get shredded.

SWEET! 10 Hamburgers a day should do the trick....
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:55:42 PM
Good for you. You listened to your body and upped your calories and the fat started to come off again. See what I mean? According to Adam all you had to do was lower them even more.  ::)
yes, I 100% believe you should LISTEN TO YOUR BODY
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 10:56:15 PM
there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?

And what makes you an authority on diet and nutrition?  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Hedgehog on November 18, 2008, 10:57:23 PM
he's a very tall guy, and he's already fairly filled out.  He'd look sick if completely diced.  And he's still 10 years away from muscle maturity.  I'd say he's in a great spot.
Epic bullshitting. :D
He'd look sick if diced?  
More like Auschwitz material if you ask me.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:58:45 PM
What is so difficult about eating one doughnut (250 calories) 2 doughnuts (500) calories and not eating a whole box?

Obviously you have never dined at a respectable restaurant as you would then know the portion sizes used in a decent establishment are single serving.  

Just because you buy a box of cookies, doughnuts, ice cream or whatever does not mean you have to eat the whole thing in one sitting.  There is a little thing called serving sizes you know
LOL
you don't get me when I say "binge"  ;D
it's like I eat one....ok, I eat another....oh and another couldn't hurt....another one, I'll be fine.....
by the end, I'm done with the whole box  :o
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 10:59:22 PM
And what makes you an authority on diet and nutrition?  
I never claimed to be an authority on diet and nutrition  ;)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 10:59:51 PM
Epic bullshitting. :D
He'd look sick if diced?  
More like Auschwitz material if you ask me.

AXA is bound to receive a few positive comments with the amount of posts he puts on this board.  He's using the saturation effect to win em' over!  You'll convert us all at some point, AXA!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: avesher on November 18, 2008, 11:00:08 PM
LOL
you don't get me when I say "binge"  ;D
it's like I eat one....ok, I eat another....oh and another couldn't hurt....another one, I'll be fine.....
by the end, I'm done with the whole box  :o

r u aware wehn u red out the quote --it makes it harder to read---just bold it
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:00:19 PM
What is so difficult about eating one doughnut (250 calories) 2 doughnuts (500) calories and not eating a whole box?

Obviously you have never dined at a respectable restaurant as you would then know the portion sizes used in a decent establishment are single serving.  

Just because you buy a box of cookies, doughnuts, ice cream or whatever does not mean you have to eat the whole thing in one sitting.  There is a little thing called serving sizes you know.


First of all Adam when dealing with obese people as I can see you never have you can not have them eating donuts, EVER!!!! You can never expect them to have that kind of will power.

Secondly, stop trying to impress people with all your BS about eating fine food.  ::) You act as if you are the only one who has ever been to a good restaurant.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 11:00:31 PM
there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?

Your body doesnt know the difference between saturated/trans fats and poly-unsaturated fats?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:00:37 PM
LOL
you don't get me when I say "binge"  ;D
it's like I eat one....ok, I eat another....oh and another couldn't hurt....another one, I'll be fine.....
by the end, I'm done with the whole box  :o
I just never understood the all or nothing mentality.  For instance, When I make a Payard Pecan Pie which is about 8500 calories, I don`t eat the whole thing in one sitting.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:01:51 PM
Your body doesnt know the difference between saturated/tans fats and poly-unsaturated fats?

In a caloric deficit this is irrelevant.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:02:12 PM
I never claimed to be an authority on diet and nutrition  ;)

You didn't have to, you just said -

"there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?"

This sounds like a person who really understands what it takes to get in great shape.  Can I hire you for my contest prep in a couple of months?  Maybe you can get me into the shape you attained for Mr. Getbig!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:02:32 PM
I just never understood the all or nothing mentality.  For instance, When I make a Payard Pecan Pie which is about 8500 calories, I don`t eat the whole thing in one sitting.
I know, I wish I could do that, but I can't
it's like a craze want for food that you can't stop
have you never experienced it?  :o



..either that or I have an eating disorder hahahaha
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:03:13 PM
I just never understood the all or nothing mentality.  For instance, When I make a Payard Pecan Pie which is about 8500 calories, I don`t eat the whole thing in one sitting.

Well Adam this is the first time that I have ever  heard you say  that you did not understand something. Now, take that as a positive and try to learn from it.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:03:33 PM

First of all Adam when dealing with obese people as I can see you never have you can not have them eating donuts, EVER!!!! You can never expect them to have that kind of will power.

Secondly, stop trying to impress people with all your BS about eating fine food.  ::) You act as if you are the only one who has ever been to a good restaurant.
You are a Nutrition type of guy, I think you would enjoy this book greatly.

(http://www.mindlesseating.org/images/3D-book_tip_2.jpg)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 11:04:14 PM
In a caloric deficit this is irrelevant.

Just because you are in a negative caloric intake and thus able to still loose weight doesnt make that true at all.
You are wrong.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:04:31 PM
You didn't have to, you just said -

"there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?"

This sounds like a person who really understands what it takes to get in great shape.  Can I hire you for my contest prep in a couple of months?  Maybe you can get me into the shape you attained for Mr. Getbig!
IT'S COMMON SCIENCE
as far as gaining and losing fat (for the most part.....before it gets complex)
A CALORIE IS A CALORIE
Adonis, tell them  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:06:16 PM
You are a Nutrition type of guy, I think you would enjoy this book greatly.

(http://www.mindlesseating.org/images/3D-book_tip_2.jpg)
A little info on Mr. Brian Wainsink:



Brian Wansink, Ph.D.
Born June 28, 1960
Sioux City, Iowa
Fields Consumer behavior, nutritional science, marketing
Institutions USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, Food and Brand Lab, Cornell University
Known for Food behavior and psychology
Notable awards ABC World News Person of the Week(January 4) 2008; Fitness magazine's "Fit 50" 2008; Ig Nobel Prize, 2007
Brian Wansink (born 1960, Sioux City, Iowa) is an American professor in the fields of consumer behavior and nutritional science and is currently serving as the Executive Director of the USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion (CNPP), which is charged with the 2010 Dietary Guidelines and with promoting the Food Guide Pyramid (MyPyramid).

Wansink[1] is best known for his work on consumer behavior and food and for popularizing terms such as "mindless eating" and "health halos." His research has focused on how our immediate environment (supermarkets, packaging, homes, pantries, and tablescapes) influences eating habits and preferences. Wansink holds the John S. Dyson Endowed Chair in the Applied Economics and Management Department at Cornell University. He is the author of over 100 academic articles and books, including the best-selling book Mindless Eating: Why We Eat More Than We Think and Marketing Nutrition (2005) . He is a 2007 recipient of the humorous Ig Nobel Prize and was named ABC World News Person of the Week[2] on January 4, 2008.

Having been referred to as the "Sherlock Holmes of Food"[1] and the "Wizard of Why"[2] Wansink and his Food and Brand Lab have been credited with improving the deeper scientific understanding of food eating and food shopping. A fundamental finding is that our environment -- such as the way a food is labeled, presented, stored, or served -- biases our eating habits and taste preferences. A large part of eating less and eating better, he argues, involves making small changes to our homes and to the daily "mindless" patterns of our lives. In underscoring this, the first and last sentence of his book, Mindless Eating states, "The best diet is the one you don't know you're on."

The studies from the lab have been credited with the development of the 100 calorie packs and the Small Plate Movement[3] as well as discovering and quantifying a wide range of basic, every day insights:

Moving from a 12-inch to a 10-inch dinner plate leads people to serve and eat 22% less.[3]
A person will eat an average of 92% of any food they serve themselves.[4]
The average person makes an excess of 250 decisions about food each day.[5]
Low-fat labels lead people to eat 16-23% more total calories. [6]
The Nutritional Gatekeeper of a home influences an estimated 72% of all of the food their family eats.[7]
Because of visual illusions, people (even Philly bartenders) pour 28% more into a short wide glasses than tall ones.[8]
50% of the snack food bought in bulk (such as at a warehouse club store) is eaten within six days of purchase. [9]  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:06:59 PM
I know, I wish I could do that, but I can't
it's like a craze want for food that you can't stop
have you never experienced it?  :o



..either that or I have an eating disorder hahahaha

It's called being a normal human being.  Most people clear their pantry of junk and steer clear of restaurants when dieting because the tendency to binge is ever present.  I find it easier to eat clean and worry less about calorie counting than eating more densely packed calories and closely monitoring them.  Eating "clean" foods works for most people looking to lose weight.  What TA is suggesting may work on some levels, but most people don't want to stare down temptation all of the time...which is very understandable.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:07:21 PM
A little info on Mr. Brian Wainsink:



Brian Wansink, Ph.D.
Born June 28, 1960
Sioux City, Iowa
Fields Consumer behavior, nutritional science, marketing
Institutions USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, Food and Brand Lab, Cornell University
Known for Food behavior and psychology
Notable awards ABC World News Person of the Week(January 4) 2008; Fitness magazine's "Fit 50" 2008; Ig Nobel Prize, 2007
Brian Wansink (born 1960, Sioux City, Iowa) is an American professor in the fields of consumer behavior and nutritional science and is currently serving as the Executive Director of the USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion (CNPP), which is charged with the 2010 Dietary Guidelines and with promoting the Food Guide Pyramid (MyPyramid).

Wansink[1] is best known for his work on consumer behavior and food and for popularizing terms such as "mindless eating" and "health halos." His research has focused on how our immediate environment (supermarkets, packaging, homes, pantries, and tablescapes) influences eating habits and preferences. Wansink holds the John S. Dyson Endowed Chair in the Applied Economics and Management Department at Cornell University. He is the author of over 100 academic articles and books, including the best-selling book Mindless Eating: Why We Eat More Than We Think and Marketing Nutrition (2005) . He is a 2007 recipient of the humorous Ig Nobel Prize and was named ABC World News Person of the Week[2] on January 4, 2008.

Having been referred to as the "Sherlock Holmes of Food"[1] and the "Wizard of Why"[2] Wansink and his Food and Brand Lab have been credited with improving the deeper scientific understanding of food eating and food shopping. A fundamental finding is that our environment -- such as the way a food is labeled, presented, stored, or served -- biases our eating habits and taste preferences. A large part of eating less and eating better, he argues, involves making small changes to our homes and to the daily "mindless" patterns of our lives. In underscoring this, the first and last sentence of his book, Mindless Eating states, "The best diet is the one you don't know you're on."

The studies from the lab have been credited with the development of the 100 calorie packs and the Small Plate Movement[3] as well as discovering and quantifying a wide range of basic, every day insights:

Moving from a 12-inch to a 10-inch dinner plate leads people to serve and eat 22% less.[3]
A person will eat an average of 92% of any food they serve themselves.[4]
The average person makes an excess of 250 decisions about food each day.[5]
Low-fat labels lead people to eat 16-23% more total calories. [6]
The Nutritional Gatekeeper of a home influences an estimated 72% of all of the food their family eats.[7]
Because of visual illusions, people (even Philly bartenders) pour 28% more into a short wide glasses than tall ones.[8]
50% of the snack food bought in bulk (such as at a warehouse club store) is eaten within six days of purchase. [9]  
Pretty Impressive!

Biography
Wansink[4] was born in Sioux City, Iowa of Dutch heritage, to John, a bakery production worker, and to Naomi, a legal secretary. He received his Ph.D. in Consumer behaviour in 1990 from Stanford University, following a B.S. from Wayne State College in 1982 and an M.A. from Drake University in 1984.

He was a Marketing Professor at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College (1990-1994) and the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania (1995-1997), and he was a Marketing, Nutritional Science, Advertising, and Agricultural Economics Professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (1997-2005) before moving to Cornell University (2005 to date). Wansink has also been a Visiting Professor at the Vrije Universiteit (Amsterdam) and Insead (Fountainbleau, France), and he was a Visiting Research Scientist at the U.S. Army Soldier Systems Center (Natick, MA) where he helped design ways to improve the acceptability and consumption of MREs (Meal, Ready-to-Eat) for the United States Army.

 
Wansink's USDA Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion photoWansink founded the Food and Brand Lab[5] in 1997 at the University of Illinois and the Consumer Education Foundation in 1999. In 2005 he moved both to Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. Since 2006, Wansink has written a monthly column on food behavior for MSNBC entitled Chew on This.[6] In July 2007, Wansink joined Prevention.com as one of their two nutrition columnists, writing the column Food Think with Wansink.[7]

On November 19, 2007, Wansink was granted a leave of absence from Cornell to accept a White House appointment as the fourth Executive Director of the USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion (CNPP). At CNPP, he oversees the development of the 2010 Dietary Guidelines, the Healthy Eating Index, the Cost of Raising a Child Index, and he is charged with promoting the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, in the form of MyPyramid. He serves with the Under Secretary for Food, Nutrition, and Consumer Services, Nancy Montanez Johner.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:08:02 PM
A little info on Mr. Brian Wainsink:



Brian Wansink, Ph.D.
Born June 28, 1960
Sioux City, Iowa
Fields Consumer behavior, nutritional science, marketing
Institutions USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, Food and Brand Lab, Cornell University
Known for Food behavior and psychology
Notable awards ABC World News Person of the Week(January 4) 2008; Fitness magazine's "Fit 50" 2008; Ig Nobel Prize, 2007
Brian Wansink (born 1960, Sioux City, Iowa) is an American professor in the fields of consumer behavior and nutritional science and is currently serving as the Executive Director of the USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion (CNPP), which is charged with the 2010 Dietary Guidelines and with promoting the Food Guide Pyramid (MyPyramid).

Wansink[1] is best known for his work on consumer behavior and food and for popularizing terms such as "mindless eating" and "health halos." His research has focused on how our immediate environment (supermarkets, packaging, homes, pantries, and tablescapes) influences eating habits and preferences. Wansink holds the John S. Dyson Endowed Chair in the Applied Economics and Management Department at Cornell University. He is the author of over 100 academic articles and books, including the best-selling book Mindless Eating: Why We Eat More Than We Think and Marketing Nutrition (2005) . He is a 2007 recipient of the humorous Ig Nobel Prize and was named ABC World News Person of the Week[2] on January 4, 2008.

Having been referred to as the "Sherlock Holmes of Food"[1] and the "Wizard of Why"[2] Wansink and his Food and Brand Lab have been credited with improving the deeper scientific understanding of food eating and food shopping. A fundamental finding is that our environment -- such as the way a food is labeled, presented, stored, or served -- biases our eating habits and taste preferences. A large part of eating less and eating better, he argues, involves making small changes to our homes and to the daily "mindless" patterns of our lives. In underscoring this, the first and last sentence of his book, Mindless Eating states, "The best diet is the one you don't know you're on."

The studies from the lab have been credited with the development of the 100 calorie packs and the Small Plate Movement[3] as well as discovering and quantifying a wide range of basic, every day insights:

Moving from a 12-inch to a 10-inch dinner plate leads people to serve and eat 22% less.[3]
A person will eat an average of 92% of any food they serve themselves.[4]
The average person makes an excess of 250 decisions about food each day.[5]
Low-fat labels lead people to eat 16-23% more total calories. [6]
The Nutritional Gatekeeper of a home influences an estimated 72% of all of the food their family eats.[7]
Because of visual illusions, people (even Philly bartenders) pour 28% more into a short wide glasses than tall ones.[8]
50% of the snack food bought in bulk (such as at a warehouse club store) is eaten within six days of purchase. [9]  

LOL I saw this on CNN
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 11:08:13 PM
Which is better for the body?
Eating a clean healthy diet and taking steroids.....or......eat ing crap and staying natural?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:10:04 PM
Which is better for the body?
Eating a clean healthy diet and taking steroids.....or......eat ing crap and staying natural?
No such thing as a "bad food".
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:10:18 PM
It's called being a normal human being.  Most people clear their pantry of junk and steer clear of restaurants when dieting because the tendency to binge is ever present.  I find it easier to eat clean and worry less about calorie counting than eating more densely packed calories and closely monitoring them.  Eating "clean" foods works for most people looking to lose weight.  What TA is suggesting may work on some levels, but most people don't want to stare down temptation all of the time...which is very understandable.
this is exactly what I said, I simply don't have the willpower to eat great tasting foods all the time..just less...I WILL EAT MORE OF THEM, I know this
I have tried on many occasions, my own diet, I know I can stick to and follow
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 11:12:16 PM
No such thing as a "bad food".

You avoided the question, and I never said 'bad' food.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:12:22 PM
Which is better for the body?
Eating a clean healthy diet and taking steroids.....or.....eati ng crap and staying natural?
::)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:12:27 PM
Moving from a 12-inch to a 10-inch dinner plate leads people to serve and eat 22% less.[3]
A person will eat an average of 92% of any food they serve themselves.[4]
The average person makes an excess of 250 decisions about food each day.[5]
Low-fat labels lead people to eat 16-23% more total calories. [6]
The Nutritional Gatekeeper of a home influences an estimated 72% of all of the food their family eats.[7]
Because of visual illusions, people (even Philly bartenders) pour 28% more into a short wide glasses than tall ones.[8]
50% of the snack food bought in bulk (such as at a warehouse club store) is eaten within six days of purchase. [9]



I don't agree with the first one as I have watched people at salad bars. They will go up as man times as it takes to get full no matter how small or large the plate. Hell, I do that myself.  As far as low fat I think that this causes even more obesity.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:12:58 PM
It's called being a normal human being.  Most people clear their pantry of junk and steer clear of restaurants when dieting because the tendency to binge is ever present.  I find it easier to eat clean and worry less about calorie counting than eating more densely packed calories and closely monitoring them.  Eating "clean" foods works for most people looking to lose weight.  What TA is suggesting may work on some levels, but most people don't want to stare down temptation all of the time...which is very understandable.
Actually it is just ignorance mostly.  Read Brian Wainsink`s book.  You will learn a lot.

Eating at restaurants is actually very effective in dieting as portions are controlled.  You can`t eat what you don`t order.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:13:12 PM
this is exactly what I said, I simply don't have the willpower to eat great tasting foods all the time..just less...I WILL EAT MORE OF THEM, I know this
I have tried on many occasions, my own diet, I know I can stick to and follow

This is my experience as well.  Every time I sit down in front of a bowl of hot tortilla chips and salsa (I live in ATX), the wheels come off the wagon.  It's just too easy to screw up in these types of situations; most of the time I go into a Mexican restaurant in the first place is because I am hungry and in a state of bad diet decision making.  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:14:32 PM
No such thing as a "bad food".

I agree as food should be something nutritious to the body. Now, all the other needless crap that goes into it is bad for you , but it really is not "food" anyway.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:15:49 PM
Actually it is just ignorance mostly.  Read Brian Wainsink`s book.  You will learn a lot.

Eating at restaurants is actually very effective in dieting as portions are controlled.  You can`t eat what you don`t order.

???
if my body wants food, I go up and order another meal LOL
there have been plenty of times where in Mcdonalds I have ordered more than 2 meals (burger, fries and drink)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:16:27 PM
Which is better for the body?
Eating a clean healthy diet and taking steroids.....or......eat ing crap and staying natural?

The first and it has been proven with blood tests. It was done back in 1981 if I  remember correctly with bbers and published in Muscle Digest.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 11:17:23 PM
The first and it has been proven with blood tests. It was done back in 1981 if I  remember correctly with bbers and published in Muscle Digest.

Oh I know... ;)

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:17:44 PM
This is my experience as well.  Every time I sit down in front of a bowl of hot tortilla chips and salsa (I live in ATX), the wheels come off the wagon.  It's just too easy to screw up in these types of situations; most of the time I go into a Mexican restaurant in the first place is because I am hungry and in a state of bad diet decision making.  
same with me and chocolate ex: the treat size mini chocolates for halloween
I tell myself I'm gonna eat only 2 pieces
and I have ended up eating 3 pounds of chocolate in one setting
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:17:57 PM
t turns out the circumstances of consumption greatly impact how much we consume. Consider these example from Wansink and Mindless Eating:  

Container size influences how much we eat: Moviegoers given five-day-old stale popcorn still ate 53% more if it was served in a big bucket than a small bucket.

Size of a serving bowl, a plate, or a package has repeatedly been shown to bias how much a person serves himself and eats by an average of 20-30%.

Glass Shapes:  Because of visual illusions, people (even bartenders) pour 28% more liquid into a short wide glasses than tall ones.

We eat more if we like what we're drinking: In one study, diners drank the same wine  but 1/2 were told it was from California, and the other 1/2 were told it was North Dakota wine (No, ND does not make wine). Those who thought they were drinking California wine ate 11% more food.

Bulk Purchases: 50% of the snack foods bought in bulk (such as at a warehouse club store) are eaten within 6 days of when it is purchased (Wansink and his Food and Brand Lab have been credited with the discovery of the 100 calorie packs)

Names of a food can create either positive or negative predispositions that can unfairly bias a person's perceived taste of a food.

Self Service: A person will eat an average of 92% of any food they serve themselves.

We don't pay attention to the extras: 31% of people leaving an Italian restaurant couldn't remember how much bread they ate; 12% of the bread eaters denied having eaten any bread at all.

We eat more if the evidence is removed: In a study of chicken-wing eaters, waitresses removed the bones from half the tables while letting them stack up on the other half. The diners who still had piles of bones on their plates ate 28% less.

Too much variety makes us overeat: Snackers were given bowls of M&Ms with either 7 or 10 colors of the candy. Snackers with 10 color options ate an average of 43 more candies than those with just 7 colors to choose from.

Proximity of candy on one’s desk has been shown to double how much a person eats over the course of a day

Friends make you eat more: You'll eat 35% more dining with a friend than when eating alone. Even worse, a person will double the amount of food ingested when dining in a group of 7 or more.

Eating fast makes you consume more calories: Consider this University of Rhode Island study on diet: researchers showed the speed at which we eat influences caloric intake. Faster eaters consumed on average 67 more calories then when they ate slowly. That's about seven pounds of per year. (People also reported feeling more full after eating slowly).
What does this have to do with markets and investing?
It turns out, a whole lot. Many of our behaviors and belief systems are based upon elements we are wholly unaware of. We believe in myths, make false assumptions, overtrade, and engage in many investing behaviors that are destructive -- most of the time completely oblivious to them.

Investors are well served if they become aware of these tendencies -- and take steps to avoid fooling their own brains.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: flexingtonsteele on November 18, 2008, 11:18:22 PM
You do? I have posted pics of myself on stage before. My genetics are far far superior to yours Adam, in fact light years ahead although I have to admit the best built man is not always the smartest.

haha!

QFT!!!!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:19:07 PM
Actually it is just ignorance mostly.  Read Brian Wainsink`s book.  You will learn a lot.

Eating at restaurants is actually very effective in dieting as portions are controlled.  You can`t eat what you don`t order.


I totally understand your point, TA.  Did you not understand mine?

Of course everyone can control what they eat - ALL OF THE TIME.  However, most people are also ghastly overweight in this country, and for good reason.  The majority of humans struggle with eating more than they should of things they probably shouldn't be eating anyway when plentiful amounts of food are available for consumption.  There's also societal pressures when eating out.  Being the lone duck eating healthy can be very lonely.  It's must easier for MOST people to just stay away from temptation.

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:19:39 PM
Actually it is just ignorance mostly.  Read Brian Wainsink`s book.  You will learn a lot.

Eating at restaurants is actually very effective in dieting as portions are controlled.  You can`t eat what you don`t order.


Eating at restaurants is actually the worst thing that you can ever do. They are in the business to make money!!! Why else do you think that they tempt you with all those delicious pictures of food and then obviously desert. There is also the aroma of various kinds of food cooking that further makes a person want to over eat.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 18, 2008, 11:19:51 PM
Please stop watering down discussions with copy and paste google-fu.
 :(
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:20:03 PM
You do? I have posted pics of myself on stage before. My genetics are far far superior to yours Adam, in fact light years ahead although I have to admit the best built man is not always the smartest.
are you saying that Dave Palumbo is a bad bodybuilder but a great mind?  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:20:36 PM
Eating at restaurants is actually the worst thing that you can ever do. They are in the business to make money!!! Why else do you think that they tempt you with all those delicious pictures of food and then obviously desert. There is also the aroma of various kinds of food cooking that further makes a person want to over eat.

Good post!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:23:53 PM
People need to stop listening to the flavor of the week. Every other week Oprah has some new diet goof who has written a book and claims that they are going to end obesity.  ::) Guarenfreakinteed she getting a kickback of the book sales. People are so gullable.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:24:08 PM
TA, which bodybuilder follows a diet such as yours who we all recognize as a top flight physique?

Has ANY top bodybuilder EVER followed your dietary principles or anything resembling it?  Because I'm sure you are not the first to have tried something like this - and there's a damn good reason why others aren't getting in line behind you.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:25:19 PM
People need to stop listening to the flavor of the week. Every other week Oprah has some new diet goof who has written a book and claims that they are going to end obesity.  ::) Guarenfreakinteed she getting a kickback of the book sales. People are so gullable.

The lady knows how to make BANK!  She's amazing.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:25:34 PM
People need to stop listening to the flavor of the week. Every other week Oprah has some new diet goof who has written a book and claims that they are going to end obesity.  ::) Guarenfreakinteed she getting a kickback of the book sales. People are so gullable.
exactly
how many diets are out there?
THOUSANDS, what is the percentage of failure in dieting? 98% I think
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:26:26 PM
Eating at restaurants is actually the worst thing that you can ever do. They are in the business to make money!!! Why else do you think that they tempt you with all those delicious pictures of food and then obviously desert. There is also the aroma of various kinds of food cooking that further makes a person want to over eat.
Nothing MAKES you eat more. You still have to make the concious decision to do so.  The more intelligent and educated you are, the less you will be fooled or mesmerized by these sensory factors.

It is a sign of pure ignorance if you are unaware of this and succumb to manipulation of any sort.

On another note, I do seem to recall a successful Mr. Olympia eating his pre-contest meals at a restaurant called The Black Eyed Peas, day in and day out.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:27:00 PM
are you saying that Dave Palumbo is a bad bodybuilder but a great mind?  ;D

I hate to admit it but you can be a fat disgusting fuk and still have the knowledge. Who would you rather operate on your heart, the best heart surgeon who happens to be fat and chain smokes or the one who runs marathons, but ranks much lower?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:27:10 PM
exactly
how many diets are out there?
THOUSANDS, what is the percentage of failure in dieting? 98% I think


Most of them advocate caloric restriction, which is why all of them work.  Most people also need built-in structure and don't want to figure out anything for themselves either.  PEOPLE ARE LAYZEE!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:27:59 PM
TA, which bodybuilder follows a diet such as yours who we all recognize as a top flight physique?

Has ANY top bodybuilder EVER followed your dietary principles or anything resembling it?  Because I'm sure you are not the first to have tried something like this - and there's a damn good reason why others aren't getting in line behind you.
my reason is that I won't be able to stick to it, I'll have alot of temptations and binges and screw it up  :-\
we all have to find a diet we can stick to and that works for us
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:29:20 PM
 The more intelligent and educated you are, the less you will be fooled or mesmerized by these sensory factors.


So you are saying  that there are no obese smart people? God you are reeeeeeeeally ignorant.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:29:32 PM
TA, which bodybuilder follows a diet such as yours who we all recognize as a top flight physique?

Has ANY top bodybuilder EVER followed your dietary principles or anything resembling it?  Because I'm sure you are not the first to have tried something like this - and there's a damn good reason why others aren't getting in line behind you.
I`m not in the bodybuilding or bodybuilding advising business nor have I ever tried to be. I am not trying to get anyone to follow anything as I could really care less what people do or how they do it.  I will however, educate them and point out how and why they are wrong.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:29:51 PM
I hate to admit it but you can be a fat disgusting fuk and still have the knowledge. Who would you rather operate on your heart, the best heart surgeon who happens to be fat and chain smokes or the one who runs marathons, but ranks much lower?
I was just making a joke about dave's structure, yes you're right
a man can be the smartest in the world but not have the greatest body
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:30:03 PM
The lady knows how to make BANK!  She's amazing.


I give her that!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 18, 2008, 11:30:14 PM
I'd rather eat alot of heathy food, than a little unhealthy food. I couldn't just have one donut and stop. I mean, one won't fill me up so it's even harder to say "that's it".

Go ahead, call me a "masochist" and copy/paste some article you found on google.  ::)

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:31:04 PM
Nothing MAKES you eat more. You still have to make the concious decision to do so.  The more intelligent and educated you are, the less you will be fooled or mesmerized by these sensory factors.

It is a sign of pure ignorance if you are unaware of this and succumb to manipulation of any sort.

On another note, I do seem to recall a successful Mr. Olympia eating his pre-contest meals at a restaurant called The Black Eyed Peas, day in and day out.

Bro - we get it.  If only EVERYONE had the mental fortitude and restraint as exercised by you in ALL SITUATIONS, ALL OF THE TIME.  If only we were as intelligent as you, we wouldn't fall prey to the senses.

And do you not think Ronnie Coleman is a bit of a genetic freak who can eat whatever the hell he wants and get unbelievable results?  The guy puts ketchup and BBQ sauce all over his food!  Plus, he wasn't exactly eating foods chocked full of crap while dining out; those meals were plain Jane.

What the hell is wrong with you?  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:32:08 PM
I`m not in the bodybuilding or bodybuilding advising business nor have I ever tried to be. I am not trying to get anyone to follow anything as I could really care less what people do or how they do it.  I will however, educate them and point out how and why they are wrong.


NO, but you like to make fun of people who are and I am now outing you as the dumb ass that you are.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:32:15 PM
So you are saying  that there are no obese smart people? God you are reeeeeeeeally ignorant.
You made the leap into that assumption.  There are smart obese people, BUT there is an OVERWHELMING correlation between intelligence and obesity.  The more intelligent and educated, the less obese.

Look at the obesity rate and where they occur and the demographics behind it.  Obesity is most prevalent among the least educated and poor.

As education level increases, the level of obesity decreases.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:32:59 PM
I`m not in the bodybuilding or bodybuilding advising business nor have I ever tried to be. I am not trying to get anyone to follow anything as I could really care less what people do or how they do it.  I will however, educate them and point out how and why they are wrong.

Once again, you are IMPOSING your value set on everyone else.  When are you going to learn insulting other people and attempting to SHOVE your beliefs/ideas down their throats DOES NOT WORK!  You would be much better off leading by example.  

What gives you such a kick about pointing out how other people are wrong?  I'm not sure you're as bright as I might have given you credit for.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 18, 2008, 11:34:53 PM
Adonis is worse than a bible salesman
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:35:41 PM
You made the leap into that assumption.  There are smart obese people, BUT there is an OVERWHELMING correlation between intelligence and obesity.  The more intelligent and educated, the less obese.

Look at the obesity rate and where they occur and the demographics behind it.  Obesity is most prevalent among the least educated and poor.

As education level increases, the level of obesity decreases.

I made no leap, you made a claim. You need to stop believing everything you read.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:36:49 PM
I have also found that the lower in bodyfat% you get the harder it is to hold on to muscle mass
especially true in single digit bodyfat levels
thus you have to vary your carbohydrate intake from day to day so you don't lose your muscles

Adam, Jim, what are your thoughts on this?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:37:40 PM
I made no leap, you made a claim. You need to stop believing everything you read.

Do you think TA has ever seen Good Will Hunting?  I'm reminded of the scene with Robin Williams and Matt Damon sitting on the park bench talking about the value of life experiences.  

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:37:50 PM
I have also found that the lower in bodyfat% you get the harder it is to hold on to muscle mass
especially true in single digit bodyfat levels
thus you have to vary your carbohydrate intake from day to day so you don't lose your muscles

Adam, Jim, what are your thoughts on this?


Since I diet my guys on near zero carbs I can not vary what is not here. Adam?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:38:32 PM
Do you think TA has ever seen Good Will Hunting?  I'm reminded of the scene with Robin Williams and Matt Damon sitting on the park bench talking about the value of life experiences.  





 ;D  Excellent movie.

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 18, 2008, 11:39:18 PM
exactly
how many diets are out there?
THOUSANDS, what is the percentage of failure in dieting? 98% I think


yeah, look at you.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:40:44 PM
I made no leap, you made a claim. You need to stop believing everything you read.
Back in 2003, Halkjær et al. reported in "Intelligence Test Score and Educational Level in Relation to BMI Changes and Obesity" that education and intelligence, analyzed separately, were inversely related to BMI changes in both groups and to the development of obesity in the nonobese group. Earlier this year, Karnehed et al. reported that young men who were obese (BMI ≥ 30) at age 18 years (N = 10,782) had a much lower chance of attaining a high education than normal-weight subjects [(18.5 ≤ BMI < 25); adjusted hazard ratio 0.48 (95% confidence interval, 0.45, 0.52)]. Young men who were obese at age 18 had lower mean ninth grade school marks than young men with normal weight at any given intelligence level.

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:42:01 PM

Since I diet my guys on near zero carbs I can not vary what is not here. Adam?
I have read all about it, and may I say, very smart approach  ;)
when the brain is on a normal carb low cal diet, when it runs of carbs, it breaks down muscle tissue and uses it up
when the brain is in ketosis, it doesn't look for carbohydrates, it's fuel is endless, and it doesn't break muscle down for energy
I'd like to learn more about this, I'm always looking to learn  :)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:43:55 PM
Back in 2003, Halkjær et al. reported in "Intelligence Test Score and Educational Level in Relation to BMI Changes and Obesity" that education and intelligence, analyzed separately, were inversely related to BMI changes in both groups and to the development of obesity in the nonobese group. Earlier this year, Karnehed et al. reported that young men who were obese (BMI ≥ 30) at age 18 years (N = 10,782) had a much lower chance of attaining a high education than normal-weight subjects [(18.5 ≤ BMI < 25); adjusted hazard ratio 0.48 (95% confidence interval, 0.45, 0.52)]. Young men who were obese at age 18 had lower mean ninth grade school marks than young men with normal weight at any given intelligence level.




Oh dear GOD!!!!! I'm not going to even read your copy and paste BS. Learn something on your own for once. Trial and error. Reading books is great but it doesn't make you a diet expert any more than going to college makes you a great surgeon YOU NEED TO OPERATE ON SOMEONE EVENTUALLY GET IT!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:44:13 PM

Oh dear GOD!!!!! I'm not going to even read your copy and paste BS. Learn something on your own for once. Trial and error. Reading books is great but it doesn't make you a diet expert any more than going to college makes you a great surgeon YOU NEED TO OPERATE ON SOMEONE EVENTUALLY GET IT!
(http://www.obesityinamerica.org/trends_files/trends4.gif)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:45:36 PM
Back in 2003, Halkjær et al. reported in "Intelligence Test Score and Educational Level in Relation to BMI Changes and Obesity" that education and intelligence, analyzed separately, were inversely related to BMI changes in both groups and to the development of obesity in the nonobese group. Earlier this year, Karnehed et al. reported that young men who were obese (BMI ≥ 30) at age 18 years (N = 10,782) had a much lower chance of attaining a high education than normal-weight subjects [(18.5 ≤ BMI < 25); adjusted hazard ratio 0.48 (95% confidence interval, 0.45, 0.52)]. Young men who were obese at age 18 had lower mean ninth grade school marks than young men with normal weight at any given intelligence level.



Why do you post studies or reports when confronted with a posting that puts you in a defensive position?  And what is the point of this study anyway in the context of this thread?  I don't see how it pertains to the conversation at hand.  

You're reaching, as usual.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:46:11 PM
(http://www.obesityinamerica.org/trends_files/trends4.gif)

AND? SO?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Mobil on November 18, 2008, 11:46:32 PM
to be honest i eat fast food all the time, yet i am very active... i have lean bodyfat, due to me being active. i eat whatever i want.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:47:34 PM
It appears to me that TA does not have enough of an appreciation of the HUMAN element and how it affects decision making and choices.  He bases much of his judgments off reports and studies he reads online.  I've noticed this affliction with quite a few intellectuals; they can't comprehend the fact that EMOTIONS and SENSES play a large factor in the human experience.  

Get over yourself TA.  Has anyone ever accused you of having good "people skills?"
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:47:52 PM
(http://www.obesityinamerica.org/trends_files/trends4.gif)

Adam here's the deal. As a whole our nation is getting fatter and fatter so the smart and dumb concept holds no water.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 18, 2008, 11:48:37 PM
to be honest i eat fast food all the time, yet i am very active... i have lean bodyfat, due to me being active. i eat whatever i want.

That's fine, but for a bodybuilder prepping for a contest eating junk food isn't optimal.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:49:19 PM
It appears to me that TA does not have enough of an appreciation of the HUMAN element and how it affects decision making and choices.  He bases much of his judgments off reports and studies he reads online.  I've noticed this affliction with quite a few intellectuals; they can't comprehend the fact that EMOTIONS and SENSES play a large factor in the human experience.  

Get over yourself TA.  Has anyone ever accused you of having good "people skills?"


Part arrogance part laziness.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:49:26 PM

Oh dear GOD!!!!! I'm not going to even read your copy and paste BS. Learn something on your own for once. Trial and error. Reading books is great but it doesn't make you a diet expert any more than going to college makes you a great surgeon YOU NEED TO OPERATE ON SOMEONE EVENTUALLY GET IT!
That is ignorant.  The resources and money that the American Medical Association, CDC,World Health Organization, USDA, National Institute of Health have put in regarding diet and obesity kind of renders the act of some schmuck with a clipboard trying to measure obesity by canvassing and surveying his local neighborhood and then trying to canvass and analyze data for EVERY single neighborhood seems to be an exercise in extreme stupidity and quixotic not to mention innaccurate.  Don`t you think?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:49:48 PM
Adam here's the deal. As a whole our nation is getting fatter and fatter so the smart and dumb concept holds no water.

I've seen quite a few Richie Riches walking around the street with big ol guts and turkey necks these days, haven't you?  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:50:51 PM
That is ignorant.  The resources and money that the American Medical Association, CDC,World Health Organization, USDA, National Institute of Health have put in regarding diet and obesity kind of renders the act of some schmuck with a clipboard trying to measure obesity by canvassing and surveying his local neighborhood and then trying to canvass and analyze data for EVERY single neighborhood seems to be an exercise in extreme stupidity and quixotic not to mention innaccurate.  Don`t you think?


NO I don't
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:51:08 PM
That is ignorant.  The resources and money that the American Medical Association, CDC,World Health Organization, USDA, National Institute of Health have put in regarding diet and obesity kind of renders the act of some schmuck with a clipboard trying to measure obesity by canvassing and surveying his local neighborhood and then trying to canvass and analyze data for EVERY single neighborhood seems to be an exercise in extreme stupidity and quixotic not to mention innaccurate.  Don`t you think?

What about "self-righteous prick?"  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:52:14 PM
It appears to me that TA does not have enough of an appreciation of the HUMAN element and how it affects decision making and choices.  He bases much of his judgments off reports and studies he reads online.  I've noticed this affliction with quite a few intellectuals; they can't comprehend the fact that EMOTIONS and SENSES play a large factor in the human experience.  

Get over yourself TA.  Has anyone ever accused you of having good "people skills?"
Mr Wansink`s ENTIRE BOOK is on the human element and Psychology of it all.  ::)  He has compiled his entire lifes work to this very idea using real time data and hands on person to person studies.

Obviously you have not been paying attention.  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:52:32 PM
I've seen quite a few Richie Riches walking around the street with big ol guts and turkey necks these days, haven't you?  
what I don't get is how people let themselves become 200 pounds over weight?  ???
some people are actually 1 ton  :-X
do they not at one point stop and look at themselves and rethink their habit?
we had a girl in highschool who was MORBIDLY OBESE
yet she drank 2 liters of non diet coke and ate a HUGE bag of chips everyday for lunch  :-\
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Mobil on November 18, 2008, 11:53:25 PM
That's fine, but for a bodybuilder prepping for a contest eating junk food isn't optimal.

heard plenty of stories of dorian and nassar eating tons of big macs prior to contests...
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:54:19 PM
I think that we are getting off the subject at hand. OK, just to recap the Adonis Principles are not sound, in fact they are crap.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Mobil on November 18, 2008, 11:56:22 PM
art atwood said he saw dexter jackson eating doritos before  a comp.....and was still ripped... genes/drugs are the biggest factor..
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:56:28 PM
I think that we are getting off the subject at hand. OK, just to recap the Adonis Principles are not sound, in fact they are crap.
I think that if you can stick with them, they do work
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 18, 2008, 11:56:52 PM
heard plenty of stories of dorian and nassar eating tons of big macs prior to contests...

Not as a daily thing which Adonis is suggesting. Offseason fine. Palumbo used to go to McDonalds and get a large diet coke, 2 double cheeseburgers, large fries, 2 apple pies, but only in the offseason. These guys didn't eat "whatever they wanted to" during prep ok.


I'M SAYING NOT AS A STAPLE IN YOUR DIET... Dexter wasn't eating Doritos everyday... and these guys weren't having burgers everyday...
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 18, 2008, 11:57:39 PM
Adam here's the deal. As a whole our nation is getting fatter and fatter so the smart and dumb concept holds no water.
Look where the concentration is.  The highest levels of obesity exist where people are the least educated.  This is true for all industrialized nations as well.  The more educated and higher the intelligence level, the less prevalence of obesity.  This is unarguable.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 18, 2008, 11:58:32 PM
Mr Wansink`s ENTIRE BOOK is on the human element and Psychology of it all.  ::)  He has compiled his entire lifes work to this very idea using real time data and hands on person to person studies.

Obviously you have not been paying attention.  

I've tried, but you just aren't worth paying much attention to.  I would love to read your book recommendation, but I'm afraid I cannot.  Your demeaning and abrasive posts really taint any effort to inform to enlighten.  To be perfectly honest, you aren't going to be able to convince ANYONE of ANYTHING with your complete lack of effective communication skills.

YOU DO SUCCEED IN ONE ASPECT THOUGH - PISSING OTHER PEOPLE OFF.  I believe this is your true motive for frequenting these boards.  You love to get a rise out of everyone; you crave negative feedback.  This is the one constant of any board you frequent!  In this capacity, you are a tremendous success.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 18, 2008, 11:59:03 PM
I think that if you can stick with them, they do work

Not in the long run even if you do since your progress will stop eventually.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 18, 2008, 11:59:59 PM
Not in the long run even if you do since your progress will stop eventually.
I wouldn't know since I haven't tried them, wavelenght is on it, he has made good progress so far, perhaps he can weigh in on this
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Mobil on November 19, 2008, 12:00:15 AM
Not as a daily thing which Adonis is suggesting. Offseason fine. Palumbo used to go to McDonalds and get a large diet coke, 2 double cheeseburgers, large fries, 2 apple pies, but only in the offseason. These guys didn't eat "whatever they wanted to" during prep ok.


I'M SAYING NOT AS A STAPLE IN YOUR DIET... Dexter wasn't eating Doritos everyday... and these guys weren't having burgers everyday...

re-read what i said.... "prior to contests" meaning right before their contest.... i believe "protien" is way overated... its total calories that count
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:00:27 AM
what I don't get is how people let themselves become 200 pounds over weight?  ???
some people are actually 1 ton  :-X
do they not at one point stop and look at themselves and rethink their habit?
we had a girl in highschool who was MORBIDLY OBESE
yet she drank 2 liters of non diet coke and ate a HUGE bag of chips everyday for lunch  :-\
Likewise I don`t understand the need to eat a whole box of something or overeat at any meal.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:00:39 AM
Look where the concentration is.  The highest levels of obesity exist where people are the least educated.  This is true for all industrialized nations as well.  The more educated and higher the intelligence level, the less prevalence of obesity.  This is unarguable.

AND SO WHAT?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 12:02:03 AM
All my guys eat whatever they want on Sat. Burgers fries milkshakes candy bars ANYTHING and no calorie restriction. In fact if they don't there progress will stop. This guy did for example. Has nothing to do with genetics. It's funny how many guys come to me and say that they absolutely need to eat carbs or they will shrink up!
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:02:57 AM
Not as a daily thing which Adonis is suggesting. Offseason fine. Palumbo used to go to McDonalds and get a large diet coke, 2 double cheeseburgers, large fries, 2 apple pies, but only in the offseason. These guys didn't eat "whatever they wanted to" during prep ok.


I'M SAYING NOT AS A STAPLE IN YOUR DIET... Dexter wasn't eating Doritos everyday... and these guys weren't having burgers everyday...
False.  There is no such thing as a bad food and ANY food can be a staple in a diet.  How about this.  Tell me one food that you think is off limits and I will eat it everyday for a month and show you that there will be ZERO change.  Are you willing to take that offer?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 12:03:00 AM
All my guys eat whatever they want on Sat. Burgers fries milkshakes candy bars ANYTHING and no calorie restriction. In fact if they don't there progress will stop. This guy did for example.
cheat days are a must IMO to reset your metabolism  :)
I saw pictures of him on the positive board, dude is diced  :o
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:04:27 AM
Likewise I don`t understand the need to eat a whole box of something or overeat at any meal.

You're going to need to exhibit much better results personally to really garner any sort of following for your "diet" or get someone else worthy of mention to follow suit.  

By the way, did you ever stop to think that some people may enjoy eating less calorically-dense foods?  Once again, you're imposing your value set and belief system on others by assuming everyone wants to eat junk foods if they had the chance.  There are quite a few people who actually ENJOY eating whole foods.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:05:56 AM
All my guys eat whatever they want on Sat. Burgers fries milkshakes candy bars ANYTHING and no calorie restriction. In fact if they don't there progress will stop. This guy did for example. Has nothing to do with genetics. It's funny how many guys come to me and say that they absolutely need to eat carbs or they will shrink up!

That pic is SICK! 
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 12:06:07 AM
False.  There is no such thing as a bad food and ANY food can be a staple in a diet.  How about this.  Tell me one food that you think is off limits and I will eat it everyday for a month and show you that there will be ZERO change.  Are you willing to take that offer?


You are grasping at straws bro. You are sinking, going down in the abyss. YOu have proven nothing with your bulshit and never will.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:06:11 AM
I've tried, but you just aren't worth paying much attention to.  I would love to read your book recommendation, but I'm afraid I cannot.  Your demeaning and abrasive posts really taint any effort to inform to enlighten.  To be perfectly honest, you aren't going to be able to convince ANYONE of ANYTHING with your complete lack of effective communication skills.

YOU DO SUCCEED IN ONE ASPECT THOUGH - PISSING OTHER PEOPLE OFF.  I believe this is your true motive for frequenting these boards.  You love to get a rise out of everyone; you crave negative feedback.  This is the one constant of any board you frequent!  In this capacity, you are a tremendous success.
What does liking or hating me have to do with reading the book I have recommended?  So if I told you to read Shakespeare you would not do so because you dislike me?  That kind of rationale is pretty insane.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 19, 2008, 12:06:36 AM
False.  There is no such thing as a bad food and ANY food can be a staple in a diet.  How about this.  Tell me one food that you think is off limits and I will eat it everyday for a month and show you that there will be ZERO change.  Are you willing to take that offer?

All you'd have to do is manipulate calories to fit in cake and ice cream each day. I understand that. But i'd prefer to at MORE "clean food", than a little "junk food".
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 12:07:49 AM
That pic is SICK! 

It is, but that type of conditioning is not rare at all with the people that I diet.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 19, 2008, 12:08:49 AM
It is, but that type of conditioning is not rare at all with the people that I diet.

Do you get your guys to follow a ketogenic diet? That's what I prefer.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:09:51 AM
What does liking or hating me have to do with reading the book I have recommended?  So if I told you to read Shakespeare you would not do so because you dislike me?  That kind of rationale is pretty insane.

I do not like nor dislike you.  You are an abrasive person...and an intellectual poseur.  Your rationale on how to convey information and conduct conversation is pretty insane.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:10:00 AM
You're going to need to exhibit much better results personally to really garner any sort of following for your "diet" or get someone else worthy of mention to follow suit.  

By the way, did you ever stop to think that some people may enjoy eating less calorically-dense foods?  Once again, you're imposing your value set and belief system on others by assuming everyone wants to eat junk foods if they had the chance.  There are quite a few people who actually ENJOY eating whole foods.
Again, I always say eat what you like.  I don`t automatically default to any kind of food.  That is your own projection.  Show me where I say eat "junk food" or that it must be the bulk of your choice. You can`t simply because I never have said or advocated that.

I am sure plenty people would never ever touch what I eat sometimes, Pork Cheek with Gruyere and Ramps via Alinea.  Do you think I tell everyone to go out and eat Pork Cheek?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 12:10:05 AM
Do you get your guys to follow a ketogenic diet? That's what I prefer.


Pretty much I modified Vince Gironda's diet from years ago.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 12:10:55 AM
It is, but that type of conditioning is not rare at all with the people that I diet.
how often do these guys maintain this condition...if they ate normally, just to maintain their weight
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Mobil on November 19, 2008, 12:11:28 AM
if are sitting at a desk working all day eating shit u will get fat, but if u are active u can eat whatever you want and stay lean and gain size....... like i said protein is wayy overated..... its all about calories and how your body digests it
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: shiftedShapes on November 19, 2008, 12:11:47 AM
It is, but that type of conditioning is not rare at all with the people that I diet.

yeah but that guy is juiced to the gills.  With his stack he could be eating whatever he wanted everyday and look like that.  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 12:11:55 AM

Pretty much I modified Vince Gironda's diet from years ago.
I wonder if you give out free copies  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:13:13 AM
All you'd have to do is manipulate calories to fit in cake and ice cream each day. I understand that. But i'd prefer to at MORE "clean food", than a little "junk food".
So you do concede then that any type of food can be eaten throughout.  We are in perfect agreement then.  It is your perrogative to choose whatever you want to eat and as you stated you enjoy food that is less decadent in nature and plain.

I simply prefer to eat different kinds of foods is all.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:13:44 AM
What does liking or hating me have to do with reading the book I have recommended?  So if I told you to read Shakespeare you would not do so because you dislike me?  That kind of rationale is pretty insane.

My response is an example of what I was attempting to impart to you - EMOTIONAL RESPONSE is a necessary and important component of the human experience.  SOMETHING YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF FULLY COMPREHENDING AND INTEGRATING INTO YOUR INTERACTIONS.  If you were able to do eventually able to learn how to communicate effectively and in a less abrasive fashion, you would influence many more people in a positive manner.  Hell, people may even START TO LIKE YOU!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:15:11 AM
if are sitting at a desk working all day eating shit u will get fat, but if u are active u can eat whatever you want and stay lean and gain size....... like i said protein is wayy overated..... its all about calories and how your body digests it
I sit around all day and never do cardio.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Mobil on November 19, 2008, 12:16:11 AM
well your blessed with god like genes....
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:16:18 AM
I simply prefer to eat different kinds of foods is all.

Good, this is a nice start.  The rest of us can eat whichever way we choose and it's no more valid or less valid than your methods.

There is no right and wrong - just individual choices.

Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:16:57 AM
I sit around all day and never do cardio.

Good for you!  Is this something to be proud of?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:17:10 AM
My response is an example of what I was attempting to impart to you - EMOTIONAL RESPONSE is a necessary and important component of the human experience.  SOMETHING YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF FULLY COMPREHENDING AND INTEGRATING INTO YOUR INTERACTIONS.  If you were able to do eventually able to learn how to communicate effectively and in a less abrasive fashion, you would influence many more people in a positive manner.  Hell, people may even START TO LIKE YOU!
I`m not here to win friends.  I see however that you are via the video you posted of an internet Username meetup at the firehouse.  It looked kind of awkward to say the least.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 12:18:16 AM
I`m not here to win friends.  I see however that you are via the video you posted of an internet Username meetup at the firehouse.  It looked kind of awkward to say the least.
LOL
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:19:33 AM
Good for you!  Is this something to be proud of?
Why would you take it as such?  I am not touting it as being a banner of pride. I simply stated what I do....err...What I don`t do in this case.

Mr. Mobil made the statement that you have to be active to eat whatever kind of foods you like.  I disagree and stated what I do in opposition.

Again, you are projecting your own emotional response on my declaration.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:19:59 AM
I`m not here to win friends.  I see however that you are via the video you posted of an internet Username meetup at the firehouse.  It looked kind of awkward to say the least.

You are not here to win friends?  What exactly are you here to do and why is that your motivation?  Let's hear it.

How did the lunch look awkward?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 12:20:46 AM
yeah but that guy is juiced to the gills.  With his stack he could be eating whatever he wanted everyday and look like that.  

So get jacked and eat pancakes everyday what ya waitin for?  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 12:21:42 AM
how often do these guys maintain this condition...if they ate normally, just to maintain their weight

Obviously they can not hold t hat exact level of BF but they can still be very lean. No reason to ever get fat.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:22:11 AM
Again, you are projecting your own emotional response on my declaration.

Lol!  I merely spend enough time on getbig to know your braggart tendencies.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 12:22:47 AM
Obviously they can not hold t hat exact level of BF but they can still be very lean. No reason to ever get fat.
no, I bet it HURTS  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 12:23:20 AM
I sit around all day and never do cardio.

and you're in such good shape you won MGB this year.

oh yeah- you didn't have time to take photos.

 ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:25:28 AM
and you're in such good shape you won MGB this year.

oh yeah- you didn't have time to take photos.

 ::)

He DID have time to take pictures wearing his Obama shirt with two doggies and a lady.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 12:26:38 AM
alright It's 2:30 am and I have to getup for school at 6, I'm going to sleep  ;D
hopefully I can dream of burgers and naked women hahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:27:10 AM
alright It's 2:30 am and I have school at 6, I'm going to sleep  ;D
hopefully I can dream of burgers and naked women hahahahahahahaha

Not in that order, I hope.  :-\
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:27:56 AM
Goodnight gents, its been fun.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 12:28:06 AM
I`m not here to win friends.  I see however that you are via the video you posted of an internet Username meetup at the firehouse.  It looked kind of awkward to say the least.

Then why are you here?  ::) Tonight you have been outed Adam. Your diet practices are for shitt! Your shitty diet will not work for anyone from the obese, athlete or BB. You simply are here to cause confusion and to make fun of people and anyone here who is serious about their diet (not many  ;D) will know this. I on the other hand have alway been honest and helpful about people who have asked me about diet. I have a proven track record and I truly wish to help people. I am done with you charade, from here on in if anyone has a serious diet questioon feel free to go to the positive board.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:34:48 AM
You are not here to win friends?  What exactly are you here to do and why is that your motivation?  Let's hear it.

How did the lunch look awkward?

The awkwardness clearly plays out on the faces of everyone sitting at the table.  Nobody knows really what to say or do and Mr. Mcfarland clearly looks to and fro rather uncomfortably as he first tries to state his name but is ignored in lieu of a panning shot of the crowded table which is full of Internet Username Strangers with blank, "Why did I show up, I want to get the FUCK out of here, where is the quickest exit...." look on their faces.  You can literally feel the heat emanating from the back of their necks as the ensuing and ungainly scenario carries itself out.  

Further complicating things, nobody really looks like a bodybuilder or the hype that they have built themselves up to be from Getbig.com, as you can see each stranger showing disbelief mixed with amusement that they may have just been had and taken by all the grandstanding, chest-thumping and ballyhooing from the message board as the reality in person ceases to be the legend put forth digitally.  

Given this all takes place at a noted location for "bodybuilders" with not a "bodybuilder" present at the table (Mcfarland used to look and be a bodybuilder), adds to the whole dramatic irony and ambiance of hillarity that I garnered from this poorly narrated clip.

I can expound a bit more if you like.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: shiftedShapes on November 19, 2008, 12:38:04 AM
So get jacked and eat pancakes everyday what ya waitin for?  ;D

I'm waiting for myostatin inhibition or some other type of muscle building compound to be released that does not have the horrible side effects of steroids.  Actually I still probably wouldn't up my calories taken in because I'm trying to increase my chances of living long and disease free.

I figure with myostatin inhibition I could eat my current calories and just be absolutely shredded at the same bodyweight, and have long life.  Or I could blow up on greater calories and risk premature death and disease.  I would choose the former.

This counts as an overshare as the initial question was facetious.


I think I know the source of your disagreement with TA.  It is actually not a disagreement but rather a misunderstanding.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:46:32 AM
Then why are you here?  ::) Tonight you have been outed Adam. Your diet practices are for shitt! Your shitty diet will not work for anyone from the obese, athlete or BB. You simply are here to cause confusion and to make fun of people and anyone here who is serious about their diet (not many  ;D) will know this. I on the other hand have alway been honest and helpful about people who have asked me about diet. I have a proven track record and I truly wish to help people. I am done with you charade, from here on in if anyone has a serious diet questioon feel free to go to the positive board.
I`m sorry you feel that way.  The only thing you have outted is your unwillingness to review hard evidence and analyze scientific fact in regards to methods alternative to your own.  The same brush you are trying to color me with is merely the same one you have already painted yourself with.  The irony of your statement is certainly not lost on me or anyone intelligent enough to grasp the concept of irony.  However, I do think that this very irony has become so abstract and lost on you therefore it is impossible for you to interpret it meaningfully or perhaps at all.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 19, 2008, 12:47:39 AM
So you do concede then that any type of food can be eaten throughout.  We are in perfect agreement then.  It is your perrogative to choose whatever you want to eat and as you stated you enjoy food that is less decadent in nature and plain.

I simply prefer to eat different kinds of foods is all.

Well not quite. If I were to make a diet for an obese person, I wouldn't have donuts, cake, chips, cookies in there. I don't think someone who uses food as a vice would be able to eat just 1 donut.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: onlyme on November 19, 2008, 12:51:43 AM
It is so funny the people who listen to Apenis.  They are in the same boat as he is.  How sad is it for Apenis to have to come on a board and try to push his ignorance  on people who know no better.  Yet he gets "owned" by everyone on here who has just ounce of common sense and training experience.  This guy would be laughed at so hard by any professional athlete or trainer or nutritionist.  It amazes me how he has lasted so long
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 12:53:51 AM
Well not quite. If I were to make a diet for an obese person, I wouldn't have donuts, cake, chips, cookies in there. I don't think someone who uses food as a vice would be able to eat just 1 donut.
That is a blatant fallacy.  Evidence according to Mr. Wansink clearly points that elimination of a favorite food entirely from a diet causes more failure rather than had the dieter used incorporation of his or her favorite foods.

Besides, self control and portion size are something to be learned and simply eliminating foods does not teach proper portion control.

For any diet to succeed self control has to be exhibited.  The easiest way to do so is through setting a caloric amount which by default limits the portion size and amount.  This in turn makes food or food group elimination meaningless and pointless.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 12:57:17 AM
Well not quite. If I were to make a diet for an obese person, I wouldn't have donuts, cake, chips, cookies in there. I don't think someone who uses food as a vice would be able to eat just 1 donut.

don't argue with him bro-

he doesn't know what he's talking about to begin with, yet he's so confident in his 'knowledge'.

his body speaks volumes on his 'theory'.

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 19, 2008, 12:58:56 AM
That is a blatant fallacy.  Evidence according to Mr. Wansink clearly points that elimination of a favorite food entirely from a diet causes more failure than incorporation.

Besides, self control and portion size are something to be learned and simply eliminating foods does not teach proper portion control.

For any diet to succeed self control has to be exhibited.  The easiest way to do so is through setting a caloric amount which by default limits the portion size and amount.  This in turn makes food or food group elimination meaningless and pointless.

Dude I just eat high protein/moderate fat/low carb and have a cheat day on sundays when I diet. This means that I could have my "favorite food" on my cheat day, therefore not being fully eliminated from the diet. I'm saying I wouldn't just eat whatever I wanted as long as it didn't go over a certain number.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Canadian_Muscle on November 19, 2008, 12:59:54 AM
don't argue with him bro-

he doesn't know what he's talking about to begin with, yet he's so confident in his 'knowledge'.

his body speaks volumes on his 'theory'.



Yeah i'm just gonna leave it be.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 01:01:03 AM
Dude I just eat high protein/moderate fat/low carb and have a cheat day on sundays when I diet. This means that I could have my "favorite food" on my cheat day, therefore not being fully eliminated from the diet. I'm saying I wouldn't just eat whatever I wanted as long as it didn't go over a certain number.

I am saying that you can incorporate all of your favorite foods every day of the week and still reach your goals rather than limit your favorite foods to just one day a week.  That is all.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: shiftedShapes on November 19, 2008, 01:02:02 AM
For any diet to succeed self control has to be exhibited.  The easiest way to do so is through setting a caloric amount which by default limits the portion size and amount.  This in turn makes food or food group elimination meaningless and pointless.

I think it would also be important for you to work out exactly what needs to be eaten (after consulting with the person and determining their preferred foods) as most are too stupid to exercise discretion.  This is where a taskmaster style guru like Disgusted has an edge on you.  You assume that people are capable of applying principles on the fly to determine the proper course of action.  Most are not, especially the juiced up types that Disgusted has to work with.  

I used to make a similar mistake.  I would try to teach someone the Planche progressions (or some other bodyweight exercise) and I would explain how they can vary torque different ways to alter the difficulty.  People didn't really get this though, it works a lot better to teach them the easiest position and tell them how many times a week to practice it and for how long.  Then when they get it teach them a slightly harder variation.  Yes this amounts to feeding them fish rather than teaching them to fish, but some just lack the smarts or inclination to learn how to fish.  Also there is a lot of money to be made by selling fish.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 01:08:25 AM
I think it would also be important for you to work out exactly what needs to be eaten (after consulting with the person and determining their preferred foods) as most are too stupid to exercise discretion.  This is where a taskmaster style guru like Disgusted has an edge on you.  You assume that people are capable of applying principles on the fly to determine the proper course of action.  Most are not, especially the juiced up types that Disgusted has to work with.  
Disgusted simply sets more rules in the hopes they won`t fail.  I would rather educate and have the person learn the myths and why the widespread demonization of food, food items and food groups prevail when they should have been relegated to nothing more than ficticious lore.
Disgusted keeps them stupid and regimental whereas I educate.  Disgusted also has not strayed from his self-prescribed regimentation even balking at Scientific Fact and Evidence choosing his "feelings" and "observations" over hard, unwavering data.

Let`s be honest, How difficult is it for people to count or estimate to 2000 once they know how many calories are in food items? Not very. 

The problem is, most people have been incorrectly taught about food and have let fear and demonization fuel their ignorance.  The ones here opposing me are victims as well, and they claim to know better but in fact clearly display a lack of knowlege and are thus influenced by the false bodybuilding Good food/Bad Food memes.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 01:14:31 AM
I think it would also be important for you to work out exactly what needs to be eaten (after consulting with the person and determining their preferred foods) as most are too stupid to exercise discretion.  This is where a taskmaster style guru like Disgusted has an edge on you.  You assume that people are capable of applying principles on the fly to determine the proper course of action.  Most are not, especially the juiced up types that Disgusted has to work with.  

I used to make a similar mistake.  I would try to teach someone the Planche progressions (or some other bodyweight exercise) and I would explain how they can vary torque different ways to alter the difficulty.  People didn't really get this though, it works a lot better to teach them the easiest position and tell them how many times a week to practice it and for how long.  Then when they get it teach them a slightly harder variation.  Yes this amounts to feeding them fish rather than teaching them to fish, but some just lack the smarts or inclination to learn how to fish.  Also there is a lot of money to be made by selling fish.
I think most people can count and add numbers to roughly 2000. People also eat everyday. We don`t have to teach people how to eat, just how much they can eat.  Its quite simple.  Food Labeling has made it even easier.

Doing a Planche is understandably more difficult to teach as it is not practiced and is pointless to survival.  Therefore the act of doing a Planche is not comparable as the act of eating is already hardwired into our evolutionary brains.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 01:48:17 AM
TA has not helped me in my diet, but my current diet follows all the principles. For the purpose of bodybuilding (change of body composition towards more muscle and less fat) it was the best cutting diet I have ever done. And I have tried a lot. There are not many examples of people who have successfully done this kind of diet simply because nobody dares to try IMO. I will maybe be able to come up with a few examples of people who have successfully used my diet (it is even more extreme than what TA would probably recommend) in some time.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Hedgehog on November 19, 2008, 03:28:23 AM
So you do concede then that any type of food can be eaten throughout.  We are in perfect agreement then.  It is your perrogative to choose whatever you want to eat and as you stated you enjoy food that is less decadent in nature and plain.

I simply prefer to eat different kinds of foods is all.
I cannot answer for his PREROGATIVE Abeles, but since you claim to have a scientific approach, I thought you would be the first to reconsider when a theory is proven wrong, or facing data that is makes prior theories obsolete.
Eg, cardio has been proven to increase general health and cardiovascular functions.
Eg, whole food has been proven to contain a bigger range of healthy levels of trace minerals and vitamins.
Eg, omega-3, as found in fatty fish, helps with the cholesterol. which, incidentally, cardio does as well.
And you tells people they don't have to worry about omega-3, or cardio.
There are actually cases of skinny individuals with fcuked up cholesterol.   
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 05:01:01 AM
I cannot answer for his PREROGATIVE Abeles, but since you claim to have a scientific approach, I thought you would be the first to reconsider when a theory is proven wrong, or facing data that is makes prior theories obsolete.
Eg, cardio has been proven to increase general health and cardiovascular functions.
Eg, whole food has been proven to contain a bigger range of healthy levels of trace minerals and vitamins.
Eg, omega-3, as found in fatty fish, helps with the cholesterol. which, incidentally, cardio does as well.
And you tells people they don't have to worry about omega-3, or cardio.
There are actually cases of skinny individuals with fcuked up cholesterol.   
I agree with all 3 of those.  With that said, following my approach renders them either covered, optional or unnecessary.  I don`t tell people, "Don`t do Cardio", I tell people that Cardio is not necessary to reach your goals.

So we are in agreement Hedgehog. 
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: dr.chimps on November 19, 2008, 05:05:20 AM
I agree with all 3 of those.  With that said, following my approach renders them either covered, optional or unnecessary.  I don`t tell people, "Don`t do Cardio", I tell people that Cardio is not necessary to reach your goals.

So we are in agreement Hedgehog

A=B,   B=C   so  A=C    LOL.   Bit of sophistry going on here, methinks!   :D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 05:05:45 AM
I think what is misunderstood is that most conventional bodybuilding methods actually match the Adonis principles, the only difference is that the principles say that less restrictions are necessary.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The Showstoppa on November 19, 2008, 05:07:01 AM
I agree with all 3 of those.  With that said, following my approach renders them either covered, optional or unnecessary.  I don`t tell people, "Don`t do Cardio", I tell people that Cardio is not necessary to reach your goals.

So we are in agreement Hedgehog. 

Cardio is for fat chicks who just want the excuse of "I work out all the time, but can't lose weight, it's my genetics and/or I had kids" as they choke down a box of oreo's.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: drkaje on November 19, 2008, 05:51:23 AM
there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?

A total lie.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Devon97 on November 19, 2008, 05:57:26 AM
uh, I look way better than Disgusted has ever looked.  So your little snide comment at the end does not reciprocate too well in trying to prove your point.

Thats the point your missing.....

People want to see what you can do for them & others, not what you can do for you.

No ONE has ever paid you for your diet consulting.

You have no client before/after photos to "backup" your methods.

You have never even had a published article before.

You have a lean physique with a small amount of muscle but so do alot of guys from the projects.

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Devon97 on November 19, 2008, 05:59:30 AM
there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?


You didnt just say that. :-\
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: 240 is Back on November 19, 2008, 06:03:17 AM
there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?

???
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 06:09:19 AM
It is so funny the people who listen to Apenis.  They are in the same boat as he is.  How sad is it for Apenis to have to come on a board and try to push his ignorance  on people who know no better.  Yet he gets "owned" by everyone on here who has just ounce of common sense and training experience.  This guy would be laughed at so hard by any professional athlete or trainer or nutritionist.  It amazes me how he has lasted so long.

I have over 10 years of training and diet experience. I have tried just about every cutting diet there is. My current diet is the best I have ever done and it follows all principles and none of the myths. I'm pretty sure that you would have an easy time getting in shape again if you followed his diet. Why not just try? Wine is allowed and cardio not needed. :)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Marty Champions on November 19, 2008, 06:14:55 AM
all hail reptilian long bean pole necks and peanut head genes 4 eternity
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3418.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3416fddd.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/l_412c6a8889ca4de58769b55716068b0d.jpg)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 06:47:20 AM
like i said protein is wayy overated..... its all about calories and how your body digests it

mobil you are wrong studies 100% back the need for protein in the diet to build muscle. when bulking, you get a little lee way, however to maintain muscle while losing fat - protein is the most important nutrient.

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: d0nny2600 on November 19, 2008, 06:49:20 AM
there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?
Seriously are you that stupid? Do you honestly think that the fat from a burger is the same as fat from salmon?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 06:52:19 AM
The same as he has been getting.  Look, all diets work. Some are just easier than others. Mine happens to be the most simple and enjoyable therefore better.

Think of it this way, Dexter diets right now on 2500 calories as that is what his video stated.

What I would have him do is, eat about 1 gram per lb of bodyweight protein eating whatever he wants to fullfill that and 2500 calories.

Thats it.  Simple as that.  He would look the exact same as he does but this would make the process easier, enjoyable and keep him from any kind of craving or binge eating.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha ha  ::)

OMG adonis now claims he is a better contest prep guru that joe mcneal, despite never having a single successful client, in fact as jim pointed outm the oneclient he did have quit as he was not lossing fat  ::)

delusional, truely delusional.

adonis, you can quote google from now till the end of time, but the simple fact is 1,000,000 out of 1,000,000 people would chose to have jim do their prep rather than you.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 07:10:26 AM
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha  ::)

OMG adonis now claims he is a better contest prep guru that joe mcneal, despite never having a single successful client, in fact as jim pointed outm the oneclient he did have quit as he was not lossing fat  ::)

delusional, truely delusional.

adonis, you can quote google from now till the end of time, but the simple fact is 1,000,000 out of 1,000,000 people would chose to have jim do their prep rather than you.

false
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 19, 2008, 07:17:02 AM
In a caloric deficit this is irrelevant.

So you're saying the simple fact that the body is in a caloric deficit that the biological mechanisms that process, store and use nutrients becomes exactly equal? ::)

The biological pathway for the utilization of nutrients from different food sources is very much a fact and a very useful tool for manipulating well-being and dieting goals.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 19, 2008, 07:31:13 AM
there is no "eating clean"
your body doesn't know the difference between the fat that comes from salmon or the fat coming from a burger
the carb coming from white rice or sugar
get me?

"Clean" eating used in the bodybuilding context means abstaining from a gross amount of a particular macro that's unnecessary at the time. It wouldn't be appropriate to eat 100g of fat at a time. That is not "clean". If I ate 20g of fat, that would be much more appropriate. My body couldn't utilize 300g of carbs if I ate them in one sitting - that would not be balanced and I would not classify it as a clean mean.

Lets not split hairs here. Furthermore, trash like trans fat have no place in our diets. I think I know a little more about this than you do, AXA. You've been lifting for less than a year. Your words, not mine. You are in tune with your body for the short amount of time you've been lifting and that's good. Some people pay NO attention to their body and spend years wondering why they've had no change in their physique. Cognizance and familiarity with oneself is good - don't let it go to your head though.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:32:25 AM
So you're saying the simple fact that the body is in a caloric deficit that the biological mechanisms that process, store and use nutrients becomes exactly equal? ::)

The biological pathway for the utilization of nutrients from different food sources is very much a fact and a very useful tool for manipulating well-being and dieting goals.
No that is not what I am saying at all. Again, you are doing what the others are doing.  Taking a statement and then applying an assumption or false assertion which then creates an illogical pretext.

For instance, if I say,"the sky is blue today."

Then you come along and say,

"Oh because the sky is blue today and my car is also blue, you are saying the sky is made up of blue cars".

See the error in what you and the others are doing?  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:35:53 AM
"Clean" eating used in the bodybuilding context means abstaining from a gross amount of a particular macro that's unnecessary at the time. It wouldn't be appropriate to eat 100g of fat at a time. That is not "clean". If I ate 20g of fat, that would be much more appropriate. My body couldn't utilize 300g of carbs if I ate them in one sitting - that would not be balanced and I would not classify it as a clean mean.

Lets not split hairs here. Furthermore, trash like trans fat have no place in our diets. I think I know a little more about this than you do, AXA. You've been lifting for less than a year. Your words, not mine. You are in tune with your body for the short amount of time you've been lifting and that's good. Some people pay NO attention to their body and spend years wondering why they've had no change in their physique. Cognizance and familiarity with oneself is good - don't let it go to your head though.
No fast food chain contains any trans fat or restaurant for that matter.  The only place to find trans fat in abundance is the grocery store.

Just a little side note there.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 19, 2008, 07:37:30 AM
No that is not what I am saying at all. Again, you are doing what the others are doing.  Taking a statement and then applying an assumption or false assertion.

For instance, if I say,"the sky is blue today."

Then you come along and say,

"Oh because the sky is blue today and my car is also blue, you are saying the sky is made up of blue cars".

See the error in what you and the others are doing?  

Sorry, you can use all the straw man arguments you please to maintain your sense of infallibility on your own assertions, but I'm here to tell you in truth you are wrong for doing so.

I asked a question, I didn't make an assertion in regards to your position. The assertion I made was a biological and physical fact.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:38:41 AM
Sorry, you can use all the straw man arguments you please to maintain your sense of infallibility on your own assertions, but I'm here to tell you in truth you are wrong for doing so.

I asked a question, I didn't make an assertion in regards to your position. The assertion I made was a biological and physical fact.
And I answered your question with, "No, that is not what I am saying at all."

So we are in effect in total agreement, yet you for whatever reason, wish not to be.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 07:38:44 AM

The awkwardness clearly plays out on the faces of everyone sitting at the table.  Nobody knows really what to say or do and Mr. Mcfarland clearly looks to and fro rather uncomfortably as he first tries to state his name but is ignored in lieu of a panning shot of the crowded table which is full of Internet Username Strangers with blank, "Why did I show up, I want to get the FUCK out of here, where is the quickest exit...." look on their faces.  You can literally feel the heat emanating from the back of their necks as the ensuing and ungainly scenario carries itself out.  

Further complicating things, nobody really looks like a bodybuilder or the hype that they have built themselves up to be from Getbig.com, as you can see each stranger showing disbelief mixed with amusement that they may have just been had and taken by all the grandstanding, chest-thumping and ballyhooing from the message board as the reality in person ceases to be the legend put forth digitally.  

Given this all takes place at a noted location for "bodybuilders" with not a "bodybuilder" present at the table (Mcfarland used to look and be a bodybuilder), adds to the whole dramatic irony and ambiance of hillarity that I garnered from this poorly narrated clip.

I can expound a bit more if you like.

You've insulted everyone at the table now.  Do YOU look more like a bodybuilder than anyone at that table?  

You're out of your mind.  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 07:40:11 AM
And I answered your question with, "No, that is not what I am saying at all."

So we are in effect in total agreement, yet you for whatever reason, wish not to be.

If it were possible, getbig would vote you off of the island, TA.  You are a scourge upon this site.

YOU ARE A NEGATIVE FORCE IN THE WORLD. 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 19, 2008, 07:40:31 AM
This thread blew up like nitro overnight... still on page 5, but a few things I see are people constantly ignoring things like storage hormones, ghrelin, thyroid, nutrient partitioning, etc. Yes, a calorie is a calorie, but when you adjust your macronutrient timing it makes a world of difference. You can't take two people with completely different physiques and give them a cookie cutter diet, all because of the fact that a calorie is a calorie. While that's partially true but you can't neglect exogenous factors which dictate what your body does with that particular calorie. That caloric expenditure can be exhausted through protein synthesis or fat storage. And you can be in charge of this if you're in sync with your body and train your balls off. :)

I think that unless you already have an outstanding physique, it's best to follow some sort of logical dietary structure. Just because some of you guys have great physiques, it doesn't mean Jimmy McFive Chins should start dieting on McDonalds just because he's lowered his caloric intake. His fat ass needs no eccentric dietary tricks. It needs a lowered caloric intake and a structured diet with no gimmicks. "CLEAN" eating, in the sense that meals are reasonably balanced, would be the best thing for most people to get their fat physiques in check. There's no point in confusing people who can't understand the most basic fundamentals.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:40:44 AM
You've insulted everyone at the table now.  Do YOU look more like a bodybuilder than anyone at that table?  

You're out of your mind.  
Of course.  None of you are in shape at all.  
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 19, 2008, 07:41:32 AM
And I answered your question with, "No, that is not what I am saying at all."

So we are in effect in total agreement, yet you for whatever reason, wish not to be.

You made the statement, it's not my position to be defend myself, it's your position to prove the truth to your assertion:

Q: Your body doesnt know the difference between saturated/tans fats and poly-unsaturated fats?

Your answer: In a caloric deficit this is irrelevant.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:42:09 AM
This thread blew up like nitro overnight... still on page 5, but a few things I see are people constantly ignoring things like storage hormones, ghrelin, thyroid, nutrient partitioning, etc. Yes, a calorie is a calorie, but when you adjust your macronutrient timing it makes a world of difference. You can't take two people with completely different physiques and give them a cookie cutter diet, all because of the fact that a calorie is a calorie. While that's partially true but you can't neglect exogenous factors which dictate what your body does with that particular calorie. That caloric expenditure can be exhausted through protein synthesis or fat storage. And you can be in charge of this if you're in sync with your body and train your balls off. :)

I think that unless you already have an outstanding physique, it's best to follow some sort of logical dietary structure. Just because some of you guys have great physiques, it doesn't mean Jimmy McFive Chins should start dieting on McDonalds just because he's lowered his caloric intake. His fat ass needs no eccentric dietary tricks. It needs a lowered caloric intake and a structured diet with no gimmicks. "CLEAN" eating, in the sense that meals are reasonably balanced, would be the best thing for most people to get their fat physiques in check. There's no point in confusing people who can't understand the most basic fundamentals.
Explain to me why "Clean Eating" is not a gimmick.

I think it is.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 07:42:42 AM
Of course.  None of you are in shape at all.  You have a lot of fat to lose and considering what Jeff has told me about your heavy roid usage, I remain unimpressed.

*Note to everyone+ Relentless is the guy who identifies himself as C-Swol in that video whilst wearing the colored tank top.

Once again, you prove yourself to be an idiot.  As I previously stated, I am the guy sitting ACROSS from CSwol who identifies himself as "Relentless."
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 07:42:55 AM
false

how would you know roid monkey  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:44:15 AM
Once again, you prove yourself to be an idiot.  As I previously stated, I am the guy sitting ACROSS from CSwol who identifies himself as "Relentless."
Sorry about that. I corrected it.  Its hard to tell who looks worse between the both of you.  Post some pictures if you are able.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 19, 2008, 07:44:23 AM
Explain to me why "Clean Eating" is not a gimmick.

I think it is.

Explain to us how it isn't. You're the one making the assertion going against the grain, why is it HIS position to disprove YOUR assertion?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:45:11 AM
This thread blew up like nitro overnight... still on page 5, but a few things I see are people constantly ignoring things like storage hormones, ghrelin, thyroid, nutrient partitioning, etc. Yes, a calorie is a calorie, but when you adjust your macronutrient timing it makes a world of difference. You can't take two people with completely different physiques and give them a cookie cutter diet, all because of the fact that a calorie is a calorie. While that's partially true but you can't neglect exogenous factors which dictate what your body does with that particular calorie. That caloric expenditure can be exhausted through protein synthesis or fat storage. And you can be in charge of this if you're in sync with your body and train your balls off. :)

I think that unless you already have an outstanding physique, it's best to follow some sort of logical dietary structure. Just because some of you guys have great physiques, it doesn't mean Jimmy McFive Chins should start dieting on McDonalds just because he's lowered his caloric intake. His fat ass needs no eccentric dietary tricks. It needs a lowered caloric intake and a structured diet with no gimmicks. "CLEAN" eating, in the sense that meals are reasonably balanced, would be the best thing for most people to get their fat physiques in check. There's no point in confusing people who can't understand the most basic fundamentals.
ANY FOOD can be included in a diet and can be properly balanced.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:47:00 AM
Explain to us how it isn't. You're the one making the assertion going against the grain, why is it HIS position to disprove YOUR assertion?
There is no such thing as a "clean" or "dirty" food.  I am not going against the grain at all. 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 07:48:25 AM
Explain to me why "Clean Eating" is not a gimmick.

I think it is.

eating nothing but trans fats will kill you.

hope this helps.

however as you said you are willing to prove getbig wrong by eating whatever we chose for 1 month.

so why don't you eat transfats for a whole month - while cutting out all omega 3 and 6.

prove us all wrong.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 19, 2008, 07:51:05 AM
There is no such thing as a "clean" or "dirty" food.  I am not going against the grain at all. 

So you're of the absolutism school of thought when it comes to the English language? Seriously idiotic.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: d0nny2600 on November 19, 2008, 07:52:31 AM
Drink 2000 calories worth of pig fat and see if it changes your body composition
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:52:40 AM
You made the statement, it's not my position to be defend myself, it's your position to prove the truth to your assertion:

Q: Your body doesnt know the difference between saturated/tans fats and poly-unsaturated fats?

Your answer: In a caloric deficit this is irrelevant.
Enjoy.

Ketchup with that?


A while back another forum introduced to me to the concept that eating clean was actually not necessary for cutting. I was definitely resistant to the idea. Preposterous, isn't it? Everyone knows pre contest diets of competitive bodybuilders consist only of chicken and turkey breasts, oatmeal, sweet potatoes and various vegetables. One of the posters that introduced this idea to the forum consitently pushed this idea though...questioning what the hell 'eating clean' even means? Rinsing your food with soap?

Eventually...my curioisty was piqued enough. This poster was afterall very knowledgeable and well respected. So I applied it to myself. While I only really had 15lbs to cut down to...  for 6-8 weeks Burger King's junior whopper, junior double whopper and regular whopper (sans mayo, of course  ) was a staple of my diet. I became as lean if not slightly leaner than I'd ever been. I posted my results though with expected mixed reactions. After all, I was skeptical myself...and only a recent convert.

Kelly Bagget summed it up well here...:

Unless you just have really good genetics or take steroids the only real way to accomplish what you want is to take a 2 steps forward one step back approach. Building a significant amount of muscle without adding some fat is about impossible for most people.
Contrary to popular belief, providing your basic protein requirements are met and you're training, the "composition", "timing", and "frequency" of your diet are not as important as many think and are not as important as your total caloric intake. Let's run through a few myths right quick.
- Eating once a day is worse then eating 6 times a day but there's little if any difference between eating 3 times a day and 6 times a day.
-Whole food meals restore muscle glycogen just as well as postworkout carb drinks. If you have days between intense workouts for a certain bodypart it's not like your body needs to be in a hurry up mode to restore a couple of hundred calories worth of glycogen (energy) you burn up in a workout.
- The only major benefit of food combining is appetite control. How you combine your meals is of little relevance at the end of the day.
- Protein is protein. The majority of differences in quality (and price) can be made up for by quantity. Give me the guy getting his protein from steak and eggs everyday compared to the guy spending $1500 per month on fancy micro-ozone-filtered powders and I'll take the first guy every time.
- Carbs and fats are both sources of energy. Excess energy above and beyond your daily energy needs from either source leads to fat gain. Lack of energy from either source below your daily energy needs leads to fat loss. Whether you eat more calories from fat or more calories from carbohydrate, or less energy from fat or less energy from carbohydrate, energy is energy.
- The most important factor as to whether you gain or lose weight is your daily caloric intake.
- The amount of fat you gain on a bulking diet is primarily determined by your total caloric intake and your genetics.
- The amount of muscle you lose on a fat loss diet is primarily determined by the extent of your caloric deficit and your genetics.
- The body does not suddenly go "catabolic" when no protein is consumed over a few hour time span.

How Important is the Complicated Stuff?
For the most part, whatever complicated nutrition scheme you're on is not all that relevant as to what your body does with excess calories in regard to muscle gain as long as you're eating enough protein. Activity itself along with the total calories that you eat and the endocrine signals your body sends (genetics) are much more important. In order of importance the major factors would be:
1. Endocrine signaling (genetics, hormones, etc.)
2. Dietary totals
3. activity
4. Dietary composition
5. Meal timing.
A Scenario
If we take 2 twins and they both train the same and eat 150 grams of protein and 3000 calories per day but one eats 6 meals per day and 500 grams of carbs consisting of potatoes and brown rice etc., while the other eats 3 meals per day and 500 grams of carbs consisting of cereal and bread, most would be very surprised of how little difference there would be as far as the amount of muscle and fat they gained.
The main difference between a diet consisting of whole foods and a diet consisting of processed crap is, it's a lot easier to consume more calories on the processed diet and, since excess calories are what make people fat, it's a lot easier to consume more calories and get fat on a junk food diet. Additionally, many people eating the processed diet are not getting the right amount of protien.

Minimums
What are the minimums? Well, there is no minimum level of carbohydrate, - Carbs are just energy. If you wanted to get nitpicky you could say that 100 grams of carbohydrate would be required per day to maintain enough blood glucose to think straight, but that's not necessarily essential.
For protein the minimum generally runs anywhere from 1 gram per lb of bodyweight to 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight, depending on the total caloric intake and activity. The less calories consumed and the greater the activity, the more protien you need.
For fat intake, fat is also just an energy source, the only fats required are essential fatty acids. You can get those by eating cold-water fish, or supplementing with 6-10 grams of fish oil per day. More essential fatty acids aren't going to do anything anabolically to magically transform your body.
Setting up a Diet Based On Minimums
Say I weigh 200 lbs and I want to set up a diet. Based on the minimums I'd be consuming:
200 grams of protein (1 gram per pound of bodyweight for 800 calories)
100 grams of carbohydrate (100 grams to fuel the brain 400 calories)
6 grams of fish oil caps (60 calories).
That means my baseline diet would be 1260 calories. I would obviously never go under that. From that point I would add additional carbs and fats to get my energy status where I wanted it.

Total Calories
Total calories refers to how much energy you need to take in to meet your daily energy demands. Take in less calories (energy) then you need and your body will either:
A: Burn fat
B: Burn muscle
Take in more calories then you need and your body will either:
A: Store the excess as fat
B: Use the excess to promote muscle growth.
Partitioning
You create the "stimulus" for muscle growth through training. You provide the raw material (food), for the growth. Once you've done those 2 things the rest is up to your body. How many calories can you direct into the "muscular" compartment and how many calories are directed into your "fat' compartment? We refer to that as nutrient partitioning.
Some people will gain 1 lb of fat for every pound of muscle they put on. Others will gain 3 lbs of fat per every 1 pound of muscle. Others will gain 4 lbs of muscle per every 1 pound of fat. The amount of muscle building in relation to fat building that goes on once you've provided excess raw materials is primarily determined by your genetics and how fast you attempt to gain weight (how much above maintenance you eat). If you don't believe me about the gentics all you have to do is hang around a group of division I athletes for a while - see who has the best physiques then watch those people eat.

Genetics
Genetic expression is 1/2 DNA and 1/2 environment. It can be affected by many things including activity, psychology, nutrition, and drugs but for the most part genetics are genetics. Obviously, there are major differences between different individuals but the ability to cause physique alterations can even change in a given individual over time.
The main thing that changes genetic expression in a given individual more then anything else is not what type of diet they're on, how they combine their meals, or what supplements they take, it is their activity and their age. Activity is obvious and 100% controllable but the only thing that can come close to over-riding the effect of aging is drugs. Go look at the diet and physique of a 70 + yr old bodybuilder like Jack Lalanne and compare it to the diet and physique of a 22 yr old Jack Lalanne. At 22 Jack Lalanne could probably gain 3 lbs of muscle per every 1 pound of fat. At 70+ he probably gains 4 lbs of fat per every 1 lb of muscle. He's still Jack Lalanne, but the difference in response to his environment (training and nutrition) is night and day. Now, put Jack Lalanne on a cycle of testosterone and he could probably come fairly close to duplicating what he could do in his 30's or 40's.

What about fat loss?
Ok. Now, when it comes to losing weight, the example I gave above with the twins also holds true. Assuming one consumes the minimum levels of protein, the amount of fat vs muscle they lose is mainly determined by the caloric deficit and genetics, not nutrient timing or whether they consume eggs, chicken, low carb, high carb, or the $100 protein powder.
Therefore, if we again have two twins wanting to lose weight and they each weigh 150 lbs and require 3000 calories per day, - and we have one eat a 2500 calorie diet with 150 grams of protein and the rest made up of expensive supplements, specifically timed nutrients, and only "health" foods, while the other twin eats 2500 calories per day consisting of 150 grams of protein along with peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and crackers, once again there will be very little difference in the effectiveness of either plan since the primary determining factors are the genetics and daily totals, which are the same.

Exceptions
Now, if we take a person who consumes only 30 grams of protein per day and the rest sugar and compare that to a person consuming 150 grams of protein per day and a wholesome diet, then yes, we will see some differences because one guy is only consuming 30 grams of protein thus the minimums aren't being met.
If we take one person dieting on a 500 calorie deficit compared to another person dieting on a 1500 calorie deficit then yes, one will lose a lot more muscle then the other because one is trying to lose a pound per week while ther other is trying to lose about 5 lbs per week.
If we take one person trying to gain muscle on a 500 calorie excess while another person is trying to gain muscle on a 2000 calorie excess, obviously the 2nd person is likely going to gain a lot more fat in the process.
If person A does an Atkins diet while person B does a south beach diet while person C does a Pritikin diet they can all get the same results. The primary difference between them is that some diets make it easier to consume lower calories. A low carbohydrate diet, for example, tends to blunt appetite. A high carbohydrate diet tends to stimulate appetite for a lot of people.

The Real Anabolic Secret
Ok, now having said all that and getting back to your original question, if you're gonna build muscle without getting fat you can either manipulate your endocrine signaling or you can manipulate your dietary totals.
The first consists of taking steroids. The primary benefit of steroids isn't that they allow you to get big it's that they improve nutrient partitioning and allow a person to get big without turning into a fat piece of crap in the process.
Anybody can get big. If you wanna get 250 lbs of muscle all you need to do is train a few times per week with basic movements and eat yourself up to about 400 lbs of scale weight. You'll be fat as heck and look like crap but it's not that hard. Hell, sumo wrestlers carry more muscle then either bodybuilders or powerlifters and they don't even train much less take steroids.

Manipulating Diet
Other options including manipulating your dietary totals. This might consist of:
1. Trying to gain weight very slowly.
Your body can only build muscle so fast. The faster you try to gain the more fat you're probably gonna gain. Eat maybe an extra 100 calories per day and you might gain a lb of muscle every couple of months. Honestly, most people who attempt to do this usually aren't able to build any muscle at all.
2. Take a 2 steps forward one step back approach
With this approach you eat and train to gain weight and muscle for a certain number of days and then eat and train to lose fat for a certain number of days. The weight gain phase obviously consists of high calories and the low calorie phase consists of low calories. This is the approach I prefer and is the only way short of drugs once can compete with superior genetics and aging.
The number of weight gain days and the number of weight loss days depends onyour metabolism and genetics. The basic tenet is that you put on muscle and accept some fat gain for a certain period of time and then you take off the fat that you gained. At the end of each phase you should be a bit heavier and just as lean.
Some people do well with a 5 day high calorie phase and a 2 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 7 day high calorie phase and a 2 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 13 day high calorie phase a 3 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 2-3 week high calories phase and a 1-2 weeks low calorie phase. How you set it up doesn't really matter.
Here's an example of a 14 day 11 days high/3 days low split:
Mon- full body workout - high calories (maintenance + 500)
Wed- lower body workout - high calories
Fri- upper body workout- high calories
Mon - upper body workout- high calories
Wed - lower body workout - high calories
Fri- low calories + light full body workout
Sat- low calories (maintenance minus 500) interval sprints/cardio
Sun- low calories/ treadmill walking
Mon- Start over with day one
Hopefully that gives you some ideas.

I will add that my personal perference is a low to medium carb intake along with a relatively high fat intake mainly because I don't want to rely on only lean protein sources to get my protein intake. The lower carb intake also lets you 'appear leaner' even when bulking up because of reduced water retention. I think I've only measured my sodium intake for one period in my life... so IMO your water and carb consumption is more of a determining factor for water retention than sodium is.

So I am now a proponent of the idea that at least in terms of partitioning or improving body composition only, health isssues aside, eating clean is not a necessity. Of course I still recognize the fact that the health factor shouldn't really ever be totally separated  or ignored. But in the short run...if your in your target caloric range, if certain macros are met (protein and EFA requirements)... then enjoy that burger while dieting.

 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:54:55 AM
eating nothing but trans fats will kill you.

hope this helps.

however as you said you are willing to prove getbig wrong by eating whatever we chose for 1 month.

so why don't you eat transfats for a whole month - while cutting out all omega 3 and 6.

prove us all wrong.
How or why would anyone go about doing that? That is ignorant and not feasible to even suggest. 

Scroll back.  I said pick foods that you think are "dirty" and I will incorporate them daily along with whatever else I eat.  Read a bit more carefully.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 07:56:03 AM
Sorry about that. I corrected it.  Its hard to tell who looks worse between the both of you.  Post some pictures if you are able.

It's hard to tell anything based off that video about any of our physiques, TA.  Once again, you go reaching for an opportunity to INSULT other people.  Truth is, we all had a damn good time sharing stories and talking bodybuilding.  I doubt YOU would have felt very comfortable at that table with your abrasive personality.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:56:18 AM
Drink 2000 calories worth of pig fat and see if it changes your body composition
Why would anyone do that? That makes no sense.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 19, 2008, 07:56:31 AM
Drink 2000 calories worth of pig fat and see if it changes your body composition

Forget it, truth and reason are a sinking ship here.

P.S. Adonis, I won't read my time reading that. I deal in facts and truths. One man's experience isn't every man's truth.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 07:58:00 AM
How or why would anyone go about doing that? That is ignorant and not feasible to even suggest. 

Scroll back.  I said pick foods that you think are "dirty" and I will incorporate them daily along with whatever else I eat.  Read a bit more carefully.

What has this marvelous physique you have built off junk food actually done in the world of bodybuilding?  Does ANYONE take you seriously?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:58:05 AM
Forget it, truth and reason are a sinking ship here.

P.S. Adonis, I won't read my time reading that. I deal in facts and truths. One man's experience isn't every man's truth.
Again, Science is on my side, not myth.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 19, 2008, 07:58:42 AM
ANY FOOD can be included in a diet and can be properly balanced.

I can agree for the most part. But read my God damn post again. I explained things very clearly. If I ate 100g of fat in a meal that would not be in alignment with my goals or needs. That would not be "clean" eating, which I use within the well understood bodybuilding context, Adam. Quit trying to be an elitist smart ass.

I understand and respect what you're saying, but I don't appreciate how you play coy and question people like a dick. If you're as smart as you say you are, you wouldn't throw assinine rhetoric in our faces. Whether or not you agree with others' concepts, I'm sure you have no problem understanding them. I know you understand what I am saying. And you probably understand quite well.

I loosely eat a "CLEAN" bodybuilding diet, but I also eat intuitively and happily. If I decide I want to have some junk food post workout, I make sure it's got an appropriate amount of calories and hopefully it has the right amount of macro nutrients. It would not be "clean" if it were super high on sodium, trans fat or other unwanted junk. I permit myself to eat a little bit loosely because I find that it shakes things up and makes my dieting go a lot smoother. If I eat super clean like a traditional bodybuilder I look fantastic for a week, then my results come to a screaming halt. I can eat cheat meals every few days which helps, but I find that eating some pizza and burgers from time to time does a lot more mentally and physically than one would expect. At the same time, I wouldn't advise my fat friends to diet on Ben and Jerrys.

I guess it's a case of "do as I say, not as I do" kind of situation. For someone who's more intuitive and intelligent enough to identify their body's needs, I say that they shouldn't worry about eating a little more loosely (if they're on a conventional bodybuilder's diet, high protein, moderate carbs, low fat, always strict and bland foods).
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 07:59:59 AM
What has this marvelous physique you have built off junk food actually done in the world of bodybuilding?  Does ANYONE take you seriously?
Define junk food.  Also please list what I ate today.  Is Duck in Port sauce with a slice of Pecan Pie really junk food?  I think not.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:00:24 AM
Forget it, truth and reason are a sinking ship here.

P.S. Adonis, I won't read my time reading that. I deal in facts and truths. One man's experience isn't every man's truth.

That's EXACTLY what this guy can't figure out.  He thinks his experience and reality can be applied to everyone else.  

One of his biggest problems is actually selling the idea to anyone; he's a total jerk by nature.  
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 19, 2008, 08:00:37 AM
Again, Science is on my side, not myth.

Science refutes your very premise on the equality of nutrients in the biological pathways used in the human body.

Your "truths" are select examples, of humans that could very well be the crème of the crop where genetics and nutrient utilization is concerned.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:02:50 AM
Science refutes your very premise on the equality of nutrients in the biological pathways used in the human body.

Your "truths" are select examples, of humans that could very well be the crème of the crop where genetics and nutrient utilization is concerned.
What are you talking about? I am in agreement as I said earlier.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:03:18 AM
Define junk food.  Also please list what I ate today.  Is Duck in Port sauce with a slice of Pecan Pie really junk food?  I think not.

Here you go again, for the millionth time.  Junk Food is a general term.

You're a very unlikeable person.  Ever wonder why you get so much flak on here?  There's a REASON behind it, TA!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:05:38 AM
Quit trying to be an elitist smart ass.

This is impossible.  TA tries to be this, but fails miserably.  He's nothing but a deluded CLOWN.  He can be entertaining, but over time....it just gets old. 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:06:18 AM
That's EXACTLY what this guy can't figure out.  He thinks his experience and reality can be applied to everyone else.  

One of his biggest problems is actually selling the idea to anyone; he's a total jerk by nature.  
Wrong.
If you scroll back, you and Disgusted were denouncing the Peer Reviewed Scientific studies I posted on the previous pages and said that your own experiences were more valuable and correct to which I scoffed upon.

You are wrestling with yourself here.  Scroll back and read the Studies if you like.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 19, 2008, 08:12:15 AM
Look at the clowns used in all those studies. I don't refute published peer reviewed studies for any reason aside from the control groups and actual study conducted. But when you take regular sedentary fatasses and try preaching to people about your findings, it's hard to humor them. Science is good, but if the findings cannot by applied to us as bodybuilders then it really does us no good. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Those studies should be read with a grain of salt.... unless it doesn't fit in with your dietary needs!! Har har har har har.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:12:50 AM
Here you go again, for the millionth time.  Junk Food is a general term.

You're a very unlikeable person.  Ever wonder why you get so much flak on here?  There's a REASON behind it, TA!

Why use the term "junk food"?  It is a misleading stereotype in regards to food which has directly caused obesity due to "diet confusion" thus causing a cloud of ignorance to descend on what should be logical eating and now eating is shrouded in mystery and has become  what Michael Pollan deems as "nutritionism".


Global Warming suffers from the same nonsense when it is a Scientific Fact and irrefutable.  The problem with both fields of study is the muddying of water due to the usage of general terms, stereotyping and over generalization.

It seems that you are in agreement with me then when you see the error in labeling any food as "junk food" as it is too broad and undescriptive and meaningless.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 08:13:23 AM
how would you know roid monkey  ;D

Nobody in his right mind would choose a diet made for masochists and fueled by the need to sell supplements over a well balanced diet that includes everything one likes to eat.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:16:41 AM
Look at the clowns used in all those studies. I don't refute published peer reviewed studies for any reason aside from the control groups and actual study conducted. But when you take regular sedentary fatasses and try preaching to people about your findings, it's hard to humor them. Science is good, but if the findings cannot by applied to us as bodybuilders then it really does us no good. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Those studies should be read with a grain of salt.... unless it doesn't fit in with your dietary needs!! Har har har har har.
You would be suprised to learn that bodybuilders do not require much more "nutrition" than Sedentary Individuals.


Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass
M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall and S. A. Atkinson
Department of Physical Education and Pediatrics, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

The present study examined the effects of training status (endurance exercise or body building) on nitrogen balance, body composition, and urea excretion during periods of habitual and altered protein intakes. Experiments were performed on six elite bodybuilders, six elite endurance athletes, and six sedentary controls during a 10-day period of normal protein intake followed by a 10-day period of altered protein intake. The nitrogen balance data revealed that bodybuilders required 1.12 times and endurance athletes required 1.67 times more daily protein than sedentary controls. Lean body mass (density) was maintained in bodybuilders consuming 1.05 g protein.kg-1.day-1. Endurance athletes excreted more total daily urea than either bodybuilders or controls. We conclude that bodybuilders during habitual training require a daily protein intake only slightly greater than that for sedentary individuals in the maintenance of lean body mass  and that endurance athletes require daily protein intakes greater than either bodybuilders or sedentary individuals to meet the needs of protein catabolism during exercise.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 08:19:41 AM
I don't understand the critizism against TA. Whenever he speaks of experience, people say science refutes him. When he presents scientific articles to back up his claims, people say experience refutes him.

I don't think experience refutes him, it's just that very few people tried.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: MindSpin on November 19, 2008, 08:21:14 AM
This is why I hoped Adonis would enter & win this thing.  It would have been great to fly his ass down to Connelly's house, to set him straight on all his wacky notions on dieting.  I would have filmed the "debate" and posted it on youtube.  Oh well...
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 08:22:25 AM
This is why I hoped Adonis would enter & win this thing.  It would have been great to fly his ass down to Connelly's house, to set him straight on all his wacky notions on dieting.  I would have filmed the "debate" and posted it on youtube.  Oh well...

So you're saying he would have easily won if he had entered? ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: chester_bbb on November 19, 2008, 08:24:13 AM
I wouldn't know since I haven't tried them, wavelenght is on it, he has made good progress so far, perhaps he can weigh in on this

Isn't he like 130lbs?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:26:13 AM
This is why I hoped Adonis would enter & win this thing.  It would have been great to fly his ass down to Connelly's house, to set him straight on all his wacky notions on dieting.  I would have filmed the "debate" and posted it on youtube.  Oh well...
I would have loved to do it as well, but 2 things happened.

1. There was an original date set and I was able to make that deadline. When the deadline was changed, I was not able to do the new deadline due to the time-frame constraints as I was not able to take any pictures during the suggested week.

2. In hindsight you let a steroid user win when the rules did not allow for it or were ambiguous, so I am glad I was not able to make the deadline.  
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 19, 2008, 08:29:31 AM
You would be suprised to learn that bodybuilders do not require much more "nutrition" than Sedentary Individuals.


Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass
M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall and S. A. Atkinson
Department of Physical Education and Pediatrics, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

The present study examined the effects of training status (endurance exercise or body building) on nitrogen balance, body composition, and urea excretion during periods of habitual and altered protein intakes. Experiments were performed on six elite bodybuilders, six elite endurance athletes, and six sedentary controls during a 10-day period of normal protein intake followed by a 10-day period of altered protein intake. The nitrogen balance data revealed that bodybuilders required 1.12 times and endurance athletes required 1.67 times more daily protein than sedentary controls. Lean body mass (density) was maintained in bodybuilders consuming 1.05 g protein.kg-1.day-1. Endurance athletes excreted more total daily urea than either bodybuilders or controls. We conclude that bodybuilders during habitual training require a daily protein intake only slightly greater than that for sedentary individuals in the maintenance of lean body mass  and that endurance athletes require daily protein intakes greater than either bodybuilders or sedentary individuals to meet the needs of protein catabolism during exercise.

That's just one study though. I can appreciate the findings but at the same time, it does not say anything about special enhancement either. Supplements, AAS and other hormonal drugs greatly increase protein turnover.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 08:30:03 AM
Isn't he like 130lbs?

In the last pic of my progress thread (also my avatar), I was around 150-153 lbs. My start weight was 165lbs. I have been bigger in the past but injuries held me back last year.

I never claimed to be huge, I just claimed that the cutting diet was the best I ever made for the purpose of changing body composition towards more muscle and less fat.

Lifetime natural BTW.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: chester_bbb on November 19, 2008, 08:38:25 AM
Disgusted simply sets more rules in the hopes they won`t fail.  I would rather educate and have the person learn the myths and why the widespread demonization of food, food items and food groups prevail when they should have been relegated to nothing more than ficticious lore.
Disgusted keeps them stupid and regimental whereas I educate.  Disgusted also has not strayed from his self-prescribed regimentation even balking at Scientific Fact and Evidence choosing his "feelings" and "observations" over hard, unwavering data.

Let`s be honest, How difficult is it for people to count or estimate to 2000 once they know how many calories are in food items? Not very. 

The problem is, most people have been incorrectly taught about food and have let fear and demonization fuel their ignorance.  The ones here opposing me are victims as well, and they claim to know better but in fact clearly display a lack of knowlege and are thus influenced by the false bodybuilding Good food/Bad Food memes.

What if the person has eaten 2000 calories but is still starving?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: chester_bbb on November 19, 2008, 08:42:02 AM
I think what is misunderstood is that most conventional bodybuilding methods actually match the Adonis principles, the only difference is that the principles say that less restrictions are necessary.

No bodybuilders want to add as much muscle as possible while staying lean. With the adonis principles people will look like concentration camp victims like you two.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: d0nny2600 on November 19, 2008, 08:44:15 AM
No bodybuilders want to add as much muscle as possible while staying lean. With the adonis principles people will look like concentration camp victims like you two.
lol
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 08:47:01 AM
No bodybuilders want to add as much muscle as possible while staying lean.

A bodybuilder wants to add as much muscle as possible and eventually get lean. Otherwise it's not bodybuilding, it's just gaining weight. What would be your definition of the purpose of bodybuilding?

With the adonis principles people will look like concentration camp victims like you two.

Picture of you dieted down to 8% BF as a lifetime natural?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:47:46 AM
What if the person has eaten 2000 calories but is still starving?
I would need further information about the individual.  A sedentary individual for the most part would never be starving at 2000 calories whereas Michael Phelps would obviously need more calories.

Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: chester_bbb on November 19, 2008, 08:50:26 AM
Why would anyone do that? That makes no sense.

But isn't a calorie a calorie? ???
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: BroadStreetBruiser on November 19, 2008, 08:54:54 AM
This is why I hoped Adonis would enter & win this thing.  It would have been great to fly his ass down to Connelly's house, to set him straight on all his wacky notions on dieting.  I would have filmed the "debate" and posted it on youtube.  Oh well...

McFarland stated that the trip to CA was almost an "Adonis Clause" in the fact that if the winner was to in fact have to go CA Adonis would pull out of the contest. Interesting theory.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:56:10 AM
But isn't a calorie a calorie? ???
It is, but a Macronutrient is not a Macronutrient.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:57:05 AM
Enjoy.

Ketchup with that?


A while back another forum introduced to me to the concept that eating clean was actually not necessary for cutting. I was definitely resistant to the idea. Preposterous, isn't it? Everyone knows pre contest diets of competitive bodybuilders consist only of chicken and turkey breasts, oatmeal, sweet potatoes and various vegetables. One of the posters that introduced this idea to the forum consitently pushed this idea though...questioning what the hell 'eating clean' even means? Rinsing your food with soap?

Eventually...my curioisty was piqued enough. This poster was afterall very knowledgeable and well respected. So I applied it to myself. While I only really had 15lbs to cut down to...  for 6-8 weeks Burger King's junior whopper, junior double whopper and regular whopper (sans mayo, of course  ) was a staple of my diet. I became as lean if not slightly leaner than I'd ever been. I posted my results though with expected mixed reactions. After all, I was skeptical myself...and only a recent convert.

Kelly Bagget summed it up well here...:

Unless you just have really good genetics or take steroids the only real way to accomplish what you want is to take a 2 steps forward one step back approach. Building a significant amount of muscle without adding some fat is about impossible for most people.
Contrary to popular belief, providing your basic protein requirements are met and you're training, the "composition", "timing", and "frequency" of your diet are not as important as many think and are not as important as your total caloric intake. Let's run through a few myths right quick.
- Eating once a day is worse then eating 6 times a day but there's little if any difference between eating 3 times a day and 6 times a day.
-Whole food meals restore muscle glycogen just as well as postworkout carb drinks. If you have days between intense workouts for a certain bodypart it's not like your body needs to be in a hurry up mode to restore a couple of hundred calories worth of glycogen (energy) you burn up in a workout.
- The only major benefit of food combining is appetite control. How you combine your meals is of little relevance at the end of the day.
- Protein is protein. The majority of differences in quality (and price) can be made up for by quantity. Give me the guy getting his protein from steak and eggs everyday compared to the guy spending $1500 per month on fancy micro-ozone-filtered powders and I'll take the first guy every time.
- Carbs and fats are both sources of energy. Excess energy above and beyond your daily energy needs from either source leads to fat gain. Lack of energy from either source below your daily energy needs leads to fat loss. Whether you eat more calories from fat or more calories from carbohydrate, or less energy from fat or less energy from carbohydrate, energy is energy.
- The most important factor as to whether you gain or lose weight is your daily caloric intake.
- The amount of fat you gain on a bulking diet is primarily determined by your total caloric intake and your genetics.
- The amount of muscle you lose on a fat loss diet is primarily determined by the extent of your caloric deficit and your genetics.
- The body does not suddenly go "catabolic" when no protein is consumed over a few hour time span.

How Important is the Complicated Stuff?
For the most part, whatever complicated nutrition scheme you're on is not all that relevant as to what your body does with excess calories in regard to muscle gain as long as you're eating enough protein. Activity itself along with the total calories that you eat and the endocrine signals your body sends (genetics) are much more important. In order of importance the major factors would be:
1. Endocrine signaling (genetics, hormones, etc.)
2. Dietary totals
3. activity
4. Dietary composition
5. Meal timing.
A Scenario
If we take 2 twins and they both train the same and eat 150 grams of protein and 3000 calories per day but one eats 6 meals per day and 500 grams of carbs consisting of potatoes and brown rice etc., while the other eats 3 meals per day and 500 grams of carbs consisting of cereal and bread, most would be very surprised of how little difference there would be as far as the amount of muscle and fat they gained.
The main difference between a diet consisting of whole foods and a diet consisting of processed crap is, it's a lot easier to consume more calories on the processed diet and, since excess calories are what make people fat, it's a lot easier to consume more calories and get fat on a junk food diet. Additionally, many people eating the processed diet are not getting the right amount of protien.

Minimums
What are the minimums? Well, there is no minimum level of carbohydrate, - Carbs are just energy. If you wanted to get nitpicky you could say that 100 grams of carbohydrate would be required per day to maintain enough blood glucose to think straight, but that's not necessarily essential.
For protein the minimum generally runs anywhere from 1 gram per lb of bodyweight to 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight, depending on the total caloric intake and activity. The less calories consumed and the greater the activity, the more protien you need.
For fat intake, fat is also just an energy source, the only fats required are essential fatty acids. You can get those by eating cold-water fish, or supplementing with 6-10 grams of fish oil per day. More essential fatty acids aren't going to do anything anabolically to magically transform your body.
Setting up a Diet Based On Minimums
Say I weigh 200 lbs and I want to set up a diet. Based on the minimums I'd be consuming:
200 grams of protein (1 gram per pound of bodyweight for 800 calories)
100 grams of carbohydrate (100 grams to fuel the brain 400 calories)
6 grams of fish oil caps (60 calories).
That means my baseline diet would be 1260 calories. I would obviously never go under that. From that point I would add additional carbs and fats to get my energy status where I wanted it.

Total Calories
Total calories refers to how much energy you need to take in to meet your daily energy demands. Take in less calories (energy) then you need and your body will either:
A: Burn fat
B: Burn muscle
Take in more calories then you need and your body will either:
A: Store the excess as fat
B: Use the excess to promote muscle growth.
Partitioning
You create the "stimulus" for muscle growth through training. You provide the raw material (food), for the growth. Once you've done those 2 things the rest is up to your body. How many calories can you direct into the "muscular" compartment and how many calories are directed into your "fat' compartment? We refer to that as nutrient partitioning.
Some people will gain 1 lb of fat for every pound of muscle they put on. Others will gain 3 lbs of fat per every 1 pound of muscle. Others will gain 4 lbs of muscle per every 1 pound of fat. The amount of muscle building in relation to fat building that goes on once you've provided excess raw materials is primarily determined by your genetics and how fast you attempt to gain weight (how much above maintenance you eat). If you don't believe me about the gentics all you have to do is hang around a group of division I athletes for a while - see who has the best physiques then watch those people eat.

Genetics
Genetic expression is 1/2 DNA and 1/2 environment. It can be affected by many things including activity, psychology, nutrition, and drugs but for the most part genetics are genetics. Obviously, there are major differences between different individuals but the ability to cause physique alterations can even change in a given individual over time.
The main thing that changes genetic expression in a given individual more then anything else is not what type of diet they're on, how they combine their meals, or what supplements they take, it is their activity and their age. Activity is obvious and 100% controllable but the only thing that can come close to over-riding the effect of aging is drugs. Go look at the diet and physique of a 70 + yr old bodybuilder like Jack Lalanne and compare it to the diet and physique of a 22 yr old Jack Lalanne. At 22 Jack Lalanne could probably gain 3 lbs of muscle per every 1 pound of fat. At 70+ he probably gains 4 lbs of fat per every 1 lb of muscle. He's still Jack Lalanne, but the difference in response to his environment (training and nutrition) is night and day. Now, put Jack Lalanne on a cycle of testosterone and he could probably come fairly close to duplicating what he could do in his 30's or 40's.

What about fat loss?
Ok. Now, when it comes to losing weight, the example I gave above with the twins also holds true. Assuming one consumes the minimum levels of protein, the amount of fat vs muscle they lose is mainly determined by the caloric deficit and genetics, not nutrient timing or whether they consume eggs, chicken, low carb, high carb, or the $100 protein powder.
Therefore, if we again have two twins wanting to lose weight and they each weigh 150 lbs and require 3000 calories per day, - and we have one eat a 2500 calorie diet with 150 grams of protein and the rest made up of expensive supplements, specifically timed nutrients, and only "health" foods, while the other twin eats 2500 calories per day consisting of 150 grams of protein along with peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and crackers, once again there will be very little difference in the effectiveness of either plan since the primary determining factors are the genetics and daily totals, which are the same.

Exceptions
Now, if we take a person who consumes only 30 grams of protein per day and the rest sugar and compare that to a person consuming 150 grams of protein per day and a wholesome diet, then yes, we will see some differences because one guy is only consuming 30 grams of protein thus the minimums aren't being met.
If we take one person dieting on a 500 calorie deficit compared to another person dieting on a 1500 calorie deficit then yes, one will lose a lot more muscle then the other because one is trying to lose a pound per week while ther other is trying to lose about 5 lbs per week.
If we take one person trying to gain muscle on a 500 calorie excess while another person is trying to gain muscle on a 2000 calorie excess, obviously the 2nd person is likely going to gain a lot more fat in the process.
If person A does an Atkins diet while person B does a south beach diet while person C does a Pritikin diet they can all get the same results. The primary difference between them is that some diets make it easier to consume lower calories. A low carbohydrate diet, for example, tends to blunt appetite. A high carbohydrate diet tends to stimulate appetite for a lot of people.

The Real Anabolic Secret
Ok, now having said all that and getting back to your original question, if you're gonna build muscle without getting fat you can either manipulate your endocrine signaling or you can manipulate your dietary totals.
The first consists of taking steroids. The primary benefit of steroids isn't that they allow you to get big it's that they improve nutrient partitioning and allow a person to get big without turning into a fat piece of crap in the process.
Anybody can get big. If you wanna get 250 lbs of muscle all you need to do is train a few times per week with basic movements and eat yourself up to about 400 lbs of scale weight. You'll be fat as heck and look like crap but it's not that hard. Hell, sumo wrestlers carry more muscle then either bodybuilders or powerlifters and they don't even train much less take steroids.

Manipulating Diet
Other options including manipulating your dietary totals. This might consist of:
1. Trying to gain weight very slowly.
Your body can only build muscle so fast. The faster you try to gain the more fat you're probably gonna gain. Eat maybe an extra 100 calories per day and you might gain a lb of muscle every couple of months. Honestly, most people who attempt to do this usually aren't able to build any muscle at all.
2. Take a 2 steps forward one step back approach
With this approach you eat and train to gain weight and muscle for a certain number of days and then eat and train to lose fat for a certain number of days. The weight gain phase obviously consists of high calories and the low calorie phase consists of low calories. This is the approach I prefer and is the only way short of drugs once can compete with superior genetics and aging.
The number of weight gain days and the number of weight loss days depends onyour metabolism and genetics. The basic tenet is that you put on muscle and accept some fat gain for a certain period of time and then you take off the fat that you gained. At the end of each phase you should be a bit heavier and just as lean.
Some people do well with a 5 day high calorie phase and a 2 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 7 day high calorie phase and a 2 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 13 day high calorie phase a 3 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 2-3 week high calories phase and a 1-2 weeks low calorie phase. How you set it up doesn't really matter.
Here's an example of a 14 day 11 days high/3 days low split:
Mon- full body workout - high calories (maintenance + 500)
Wed- lower body workout - high calories
Fri- upper body workout- high calories
Mon - upper body workout- high calories
Wed - lower body workout - high calories
Fri- low calories + light full body workout
Sat- low calories (maintenance minus 500) interval sprints/cardio
Sun- low calories/ treadmill walking
Mon- Start over with day one
Hopefully that gives you some ideas.

I will add that my personal perference is a low to medium carb intake along with a relatively high fat intake mainly because I don't want to rely on only lean protein sources to get my protein intake. The lower carb intake also lets you 'appear leaner' even when bulking up because of reduced water retention. I think I've only measured my sodium intake for one period in my life... so IMO your water and carb consumption is more of a determining factor for water retention than sodium is.

So I am now a proponent of the idea that at least in terms of partitioning or improving body composition only, health isssues aside, eating clean is not a necessity. Of course I still recognize the fact that the health factor shouldn't really ever be totally separated  or ignored. But in the short run...if your in your target caloric range, if certain macros are met (protein and EFA requirements)... then enjoy that burger while dieting.

 

THE ABOVE IS REQUIRED READING FOR EVERYONE HERE AT GETBIG.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: BroadStreetBruiser on November 19, 2008, 08:57:56 AM
That's a very interesting article. After my initial cut down I plan to do that accordingly.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: shiftedShapes on November 19, 2008, 09:00:21 AM
This is why I hoped Adonis would enter & win this thing.  It would have been great to fly his ass down to Connelly's house, to set him straight on all his wacky notions on dieting.  I would have filmed the "debate" and posted it on youtube.  Oh well...

Why not fly him in anyway? 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:01:24 AM
That's a very interesting article. After my initial cut down I plan to do that accordingly.
You will find it a lot more enjoyable for sure as it is less restrictive.

Although I do know you enjoy your current approach.

BSB is well on his way to doing what most Getbiggers NEVER do.  He is getting lean and ripped.

I am impressed with his progress.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:03:01 AM
Timberwolf is 5`10 and 170-175 lbs in those pictures by the way. 
40 years of age.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:18:20 AM
How or why would anyone go about doing that? That is ignorant and not feasible to even suggest. 

Scroll back.  I said pick foods that you think are "dirty" and I will incorporate them daily along with whatever else I eat.  Read a bit more carefully.

eat nothing by margarine for a month of course - easy.

the post by kelly baggot agrees that a junk food diet is unhealty  ??? so why did you post it? to help prove how dumb you are for believing otherwise?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:19:17 AM
Here is more info on Timberwolf.
Here is he about 5`10 165-170 lbs and his story of progression to get there.


My new diet experiment....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I've always kept my bodyfat below 10% year round when trying to take it lower in the past I had always relied on eating clean, lowering my carbs (between 50-100g), keeping my protein high (minimum 200-250g) and keeping my fat intake at least 40 if not 50%. My calorie intake would invariably fall between 2100-2400 calories though I never really counted them.
Along with the diet I also did HIIT, whether it was on a treadmill or a boxing routine (speed bag/ ropework/ shadowboxing/ heavybag). Again I ate mostly plain chicken breasts, oatmeal, vegetables, protein shakes and tons of flax seed oil (averaging 6 tablespoons).

This time I decided to experiment.
I upped my carbs (150-200g on most days), lowered my protein intake slightly
and fat slightly as well but paying most attention to my total calorie intake.
Again the calorie intake stayed about 2200 calories/ day but I added a cheat day once a week (where macros and total calorie intake went out the window)and a carb up /refeed day once a week as well. I also did not eat super clean on the non cheat days. I ate deep fried, breaded chicken daily (grocery version of KFC), had whoppers twice a week, chips (baked though), pretzels etc. Again these are on my non cheat days.
In just over 3 weeks, my weight went down from 177lbs to dipping just slightly below 170. My waist thankfully shrank the most from 27 1/2" to 26 1/2". At the suprailliac the caliper measurment went from 4 mm to 2mm. All these were taken on July 23rd. The pics below were from June 30th to July 23rd.

Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:21:10 AM
You would be suprised to learn that bodybuilders do not require much more "nutrition" than Sedentary Individuals.


Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass
M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall and S. A. Atkinson
Department of Physical Education and Pediatrics, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

The present study examined the effects of training status (endurance exercise or body building) on nitrogen balance, body composition, and urea excretion during periods of habitual and altered protein intakes. Experiments were performed on six elite bodybuilders, six elite endurance athletes, and six sedentary controls during a 10-day period of normal protein intake followed by a 10-day period of altered protein intake. The nitrogen balance data revealed that bodybuilders required 1.12 times and endurance athletes required 1.67 times more daily protein than sedentary controls. Lean body mass (density) was maintained in bodybuilders consuming 1.05 g protein.kg-1.day-1. Endurance athletes excreted more total daily urea than either bodybuilders or controls. We conclude that bodybuilders during habitual training require a daily protein intake only slightly greater than that for sedentary individuals in the maintenance of lean body mass  and that endurance athletes require daily protein intakes greater than either bodybuilders or sedentary individuals to meet the needs of protein catabolism during exercise.

and ? there have also been loads of studies that have claimed there is no need for greater than rda for athletes  ???

again who are we to believe ? - you only post studies when they back your claims.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:22:24 AM
eat nothing by margarine for a month of course - easy.

the post by kelly baggot agrees that a junk food diet is unhealty  ??? so why did you post it? to help prove how dumb you are for believing otherwise?
How or why would anyone go about doing that? That is ignorant and not feasible to even suggest.

Scroll back.  I said pick foods that you think are "dirty" and I will incorporate them daily along with whatever else I eat.  Read a bit more carefully.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:23:06 AM
Nobody in his right mind would choose a diet made for masochists and fueled by the need to sell supplements over a well balanced diet that includes everything one likes to eat.

no one is disagreeing, but there is a health and mental aspects to eating nothi9ng but junk while dieting that have led to millions worldwide getting fat, yet adonis says they are fat because they are stupid  ???

tell me again why you hold him in such high esteem ?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:24:51 AM
Timberwolf is 5`10 and 170-175 lbs in those pictures by the way. 
40 years of age.

and on drugs.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: mazrim on November 19, 2008, 09:26:24 AM
Here is more info on Timberwolf.
Here is he about 5`10 165-170 lbs and his story of progression to get there.


My new diet experiment....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I've always kept my bodyfat below 10% year round when trying to take it lower in the past I had always relied on eating clean, lowering my carbs (between 50-100g), keeping my protein high (minimum 200-250g) and keeping my fat intake at least 40 if not 50%. My calorie intake would invariably fall between 2100-2400 calories though I never really counted them.
Along with the diet I also did HIIT, whether it was on a treadmill or a boxing routine (speed bag/ ropework/ shadowboxing/ heavybag). Again I ate mostly plain chicken breasts, oatmeal, vegetables, protein shakes and tons of flax seed oil (averaging 6 tablespoons).

This time I decided to experiment.
I upped my carbs (150-200g on most days), lowered my protein intake slightly
and fat slightly as well but paying most attention to my total calorie intake.
Again the calorie intake stayed about 2200 calories/ day but I added a cheat day once a week (where macros and total calorie intake went out the window)and a carb up /refeed day once a week as well. I also did not eat super clean on the non cheat days. I ate deep fried, breaded chicken daily (grocery version of KFC), had whoppers twice a week, chips (baked though), pretzels etc. Again these are on my non cheat days.
In just over 3 weeks, my weight went down from 177lbs to dipping just slightly below 170. My waist thankfully shrank the most from 27 1/2" to 26 1/2". At the suprailliac the caliper measurment went from 4 mm to 2mm. All these were taken on July 23rd. The pics below were from June 30th to July 23rd.



I'm glad you posted this one. I was going to suggest it.
I don't get why people are finding this so hard to believe. It is backed by science. Also, Layne Norton, Tommy Jeffers, and I would think most of their clients believe much of the same.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: d0nny2600 on November 19, 2008, 09:27:11 AM
and on drugs.
Correct
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:28:06 AM
How or why would anyone go about doing that? That is ignorant and not feasible to even suggest.

Scroll back.  I said pick foods that you think are "dirty" and I will incorporate them daily along with whatever else I eat.  Read a bit more carefully.

ok eat nothing but foods deep fried in trans fats, fries, apple pies, chicken, etc

post a pic eating every meal.

i won't hold my breath. we are all still waiting on the mcdonalds diet that never materialised. ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: mazrim on November 19, 2008, 09:28:33 AM
and on drugs.
<Maybe but not from my interactions with him unless he's been lying to me (possible of course). He said he would have if there were no legal ramifications, etc.
He has used 1-AD back in the day (I believe it was) and 6-OXO. Nothing else
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:30:47 AM
Timberwolf here at a LEANER 5`10 160-167 lbs.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:32:08 AM
<Maybe but not from my interactions with him unless he's been lying to me (possible of course). He said he would have if there were no legal ramifications, etc.
He has used 1-AD back in the day (I believe it was) and 6-OXO. Nothing else

hahahahahaha trust me, he's lying.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:38:14 AM
Some more from Kane:

First was taken in Mar at 170lbs.
Second in May at about the same weight.
Third was taken in June at 167lbs.
Last one was with a proffesional photographer at 165lbs.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 09:39:36 AM
no one is disagreeing, but there is a health and mental aspects to eating nothi9ng but junk while dieting that have led to millions worldwide getting fat, yet adonis says they are fat because they are stupid  ???

tell me again why you hold him in such high esteem ?

TA only holds credibility with other disenchanted people.  He's a NEGATIVE force on this board and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 09:40:46 AM
Some more from Kane:

First was taken in Mar at 170lbs.
Second in May at about the same weight.
Third was taken in June at 167lbs.
Last one was with a proffesional photographer at 165lbs.

What's the point of this again?  You can post all of the pics you want - it won't change a damn thing in the court of getbig opinion.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:41:22 AM
And Kane on his lifts:

Thanks.
At 175-177lbs I could benchpress 315lbs, squat (parallel) 355lbs and sumo deadlift 415 for an easy single. Though doing the sumo was what messed up my back...so take that with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 09:42:06 AM
no one is disagreeing, but there is a health and mental aspects to eating nothi9ng but junk while dieting that have led to millions worldwide getting fat, yet adonis says they are fat because they are stupid  ???
tell me again why you hold him in such high esteem ?

Millions got fat on "junk food" because they eat too much of it. Of course you schouldn't eat "junk" only, there's two principles that inhibit that.

My approach to obese people would be the following: Let them write down everything they think they eat during the day and put them on that diet for the first year. Won't do more harm than it has done already. Alone from leaving out or forgetting a large part of what they really have eaten, they will lose weight. If they don't, just reduce the portions a little. I am pretty sure that people will be healthier after that year than they have been before, from the fat loss alone. Plus the fact that this is an achievable approach rather than throwing out everything they like to eat and putting them on a fish and rice diet, they can't stick to anyway.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:42:14 AM
to counter adonis's pics of a steroid user who eats junk food.

heres someone who follows a clean diet
(http://graysmatter.codivation.com/content/binary/Ronniecoleman.jpg)
(http://www.ifbbpro.com/wp-content/uploads/image/2007/bios/JayCutler6.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuilders.gr/data/main/forum/mainuploadsfolder/kardoula/200812383542_dexter_jackson.jpg)

 ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: onlyme on November 19, 2008, 09:43:26 AM
I would have loved to do it as well, but 2 things happened.

1. There was an original date set and I was able to make that deadline. When the deadline was changed, I was not able to do the new deadline due to the time-frame constraints as I was not able to take any pictures during the suggested week.

2. In hindsight you let a steroid user win when the rules did not allow for it or were ambiguous, so I am glad I was not able to make the deadline. 

This brings to mind the old adage "Excuses are like assholes, everyone's got one"  Instead of wasting bandwidth and time cutting and pasting all your gibberish why don't you go to the gym get some size on your bones, follow your diet and show people what you can do instead of just talking about it.  Sorry son but not many people will take a 6' tall 160 lb kid seriously.  All you do is talk.  You have nothing to back it up (except when you say science).  Can you imagine how embarrassed you would be in front of Jeez and your one friend AssHoletic if they saw you debating someone in person who knows what they are talking about. 

You know what, find ONE guy who has some credibility and credentials to back up what you preach.  Just that may get you some respect (not much but some).  Right now you guys like AssHoletic and Falcon and others backing you up.  You have no one real behind you.  Hope this helps, cause I like your stick-to-it-tiveness but you are fighting a battle you can't win right now.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:44:04 AM
Millions got fat on "junk food" because they eat too much of it. Of course you schouldn't eat "junk" only, there's two principles that inhibit that.

My approach to obese people would be the following: Let them write down everything they think they eat during the day and put them on that diet for the first year. Won't do more harm than it has done already. Alone from leaving out or forgetting a large part of what they really have eaten, they will lose weight. If they don't, just reduce the portions a little. I am pretty sure that people will be healthier after that year than they have been before, from the fat loss alone. Plus the fact that this is an achievable approach rather than throwing out everything they like to eat and putting them on a fish and rice diet, they can't stick to anyway.
the longer they are exposed to bad fats, and high sugars the more likely they wil get geart problems or perhaps diabetes.

lower amounts or not.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:46:15 AM
the longer they are exposed to bad fats, and high sugars the more likely they wil get geart problems or perhaps diabetes.

lower amounts or not.
With calorie control by default you do not have to worry bout this happening as the threshold for problems to develop are simply not possible when consuming limited calories.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:47:24 AM
With calorie control by default you do not have to worry bout this happening as the threshold for problems to develop are simply not possible when consuming limited calories.
bullshit.

prove it, where are the studies?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:47:56 AM
to counter adonis's pics of a steroid user who eats junk food.

heres someone who follows a clean diet
(http://graysmatter.codivation.com/content/binary/Ronniecoleman.jpg)
(http://www.ifbbpro.com/wp-content/uploads/image/2007/bios/JayCutler6.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuilders.gr/data/main/forum/mainuploadsfolder/kardoula/200812383542_dexter_jackson.jpg)

 ::)
Timberwolf has NEVER used steroids. Sorry.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 09:48:07 AM
the longer they are exposed to bad fats, and high sugars the more likely they wil get geart problems or perhaps diabetes.

lower amounts or not.

As soon as they learn that losing weight doesn not mean eating only things they hate, they will automatically try other foods. Don't you agree that any diet that helps them lose weight is much better than a diet they can never stick to for the rest of their lifes anyway?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:51:46 AM
Timberwolf has NEVER used steroids. Sorry.

of course he hasn't

neither has aquilles, dex and ronnie  ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 09:52:39 AM
bullshit.

prove it, where are the studies?


Are you serious?  This is basic common knowledge.
Calorie restriction reduces risk of heart attack, stroke and diabetes

By Gila Z. Reckess

People who severely restrict their caloric intake drastically reduce their risk of developing diabetes or clogged arteries, the precursor to a heart attack or stroke.

According to University researchers, some risk factors were so low they were comparable to those of people decades younger.

The study, led by John O. Holloszy, M.D., professor of medicine, will appear in the April 27 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The first author is Luigi Fontana, M.D., Ph.D., research instructor in medicine.

"It's very clear from these findings that calorie restriction has a powerful, protective effect against diseases associated with aging," Holloszy said. "We don't know how long each individual actually will end up living, but they certainly have a much longer life expectancy than average because they're most likely not going to die from a heart attack, stroke or diabetes."

Research on mice and rats has shown that stringent and consistent calorie restriction increases the animals' maximum lifespan by about 30 percent and protects them against cancer.

This study is the first to examine individuals who have been on calorie restriction diets for a long period of time.

The researchers recruited participants through a national organization called the Caloric Restriction Optimal Nutrition Society.

By eating small amounts of nutrient-dense foods, members of this group try to consume between 10 percent and 25 percent fewer calories than the average American while still attempting to maintain proper nutrition.

The 18 individuals who participated in the study had voluntarily been following this very low-calorie diet for three to 15 years. This group was compared with 18 age- and gender-matched individuals who ate a typical Western diet.

Holloszy's team found the two groups not only differed in the number of calories consumed, but also in the composition of their diets.

Individuals in the calorie-restriction group ate about 1,100-1,950 calories per day depending on height, weight and gender, and these calories consisted of about 26 percent protein, 28 percent fat and 46 percent complex carbohydrates.

In contrast, the comparison group consumed between about 1,975 and 3,550 calories per day, with only 18 percent of their calories from protein, 32 percent from fat and 50 percent from carbohydrates, including refined, processed starches.

Atherosclerosis — clogged arteries that can lead to a heart attack or stroke — already is the leading cause of death in the Western world, and the problem is continuing to grow.

So Holloszy's team specifically focused on the risk factors for this condition. The researchers measured multiple indications of early or impending atherosclerosis, including blood pressure and levels of several biological markers in the blood, including cholesterol and triglycerides.

They also measured the levels of glucose and insulin in the blood to gauge diabetes risk, another major health concern for Americans.

People in the calorie restriction group had total and low-density lipoprotein — known as LDL or "bad" cholesterol — levels comparable to the lowest 10 percent of the population in their respective age groups.

Their high-density lipoprotein — known as HDL or "good" cholesterol — levels were in the 85th percentile to 90th percentile for middle-aged men.

That finding was a surprise because HDL levels typically decrease when individuals follow low-fat diets to lose weight.

Triglyceride levels — which, when elevated, can lead to atherosclerosis — were even more impressive in the calorie restriction group: They were lower than more than 95 percent of Americans in their 20s, despite the fact that the study participants' ages ranged from 35-82.

In contrast, cholesterol and triglyceride levels in the comparison group were in the 50th percentile for average middle-aged Americans. Moreover, 12 of the individuals in the calorie restriction group provided medical records from before and during the diet.

Their cholesterol and triglyceride scores also were close to the 50th percentile for middle-aged Americans before the diet, and levels fell the most dramatically during their first year of calorie restriction.

Blood pressure scores in the restricted group also were equivalent to those of much younger individuals. The average blood pressure in the normal diet group was about 130/80, which is standard for a typical American.

In comparison, the calorie restriction group's average was about 100/60, akin to the blood pressure of an average 10-year-old.

Fasting glucose and insulin — both markers of the risk of developing diabetes — also were significantly lower in the calorie restriction group, with insulin concentrations as much as 65 percent lower.

All other risk factors measured also were significantly better in the calorie-restriction group.

They included body mass index, body fat mass, C-reactive protein and the thickness of the carotid artery, the main blood vessel that runs from the heart to the brain.

"These effects are all pretty dramatic," Fontana said. "For the first time, we've shown that calorie restriction is feasible and has a tremendous effect on the risk for atherosclerosis and diabetes."

The team is conducting a controlled, prospective study comparing calorie restriction to the average American diet.

The researchers ultimately hope to follow these individuals for a longer period of time to assess the long-term effects of calorie restriction on biological markers of aging.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:55:12 AM
As soon as they learn that losing weight doesn not mean eating only things they hate, they will automatically try other foods. Don't you agree that any diet that helps them lose weight is much better than a diet they can never stick to for the rest of their lifes anyway?

yes, but not at the expense of their health.

from burgers i would try steak, from deep fried chicken in batter, i would try lemon pepper chicken fillets.

deep fried fries to over baked fries

all healthier options - and just as tasty. - less calories too.

however on your diet, telling a fat guy/girl he can eat his ice cream but stop at half a tub, is like telling a crack addict to only smoke half the pipe ::) its not going to happen.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 09:58:26 AM
Are you serious?  This is basic common knowledge.
Calorie restriction reduces risk of heart attack, stroke and diabetes

By Gila Z. Reckess

People who severely restrict their caloric intake drastically reduce their risk of developing diabetes or clogged arteries, the precursor to a heart attack or stroke.

According to University researchers, some risk factors were so low they were comparable to those of people decades younger.

The study, led by John O. Holloszy, M.D., professor of medicine, will appear in the April 27 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The first author is Luigi Fontana, M.D., Ph.D., research instructor in medicine.

"It's very clear from these findings that calorie restriction has a powerful, protective effect against diseases associated with aging," Holloszy said. "We don't know how long each individual actually will end up living, but they certainly have a much longer life expectancy than average because they're most likely not going to die from a heart attack, stroke or diabetes."

Research on mice and rats has shown that stringent and consistent calorie restriction increases the animals' maximum lifespan by about 30 percent and protects them against cancer.

This study is the first to examine individuals who have been on calorie restriction diets for a long period of time.

The researchers recruited participants through a national organization called the Caloric Restriction Optimal Nutrition Society.

By eating small amounts of nutrient-dense foods, members of this group try to consume between 10 percent and 25 percent fewer calories than the average American while still attempting to maintain proper nutrition.

The 18 individuals who participated in the study had voluntarily been following this very low-calorie diet for three to 15 years. This group was compared with 18 age- and gender-matched individuals who ate a typical Western diet.

Holloszy's team found the two groups not only differed in the number of calories consumed, but also in the composition of their diets.

Individuals in the calorie-restriction group ate about 1,100-1,950 calories per day depending on height, weight and gender, and these calories consisted of about 26 percent protein, 28 percent fat and 46 percent complex carbohydrates.

In contrast, the comparison group consumed between about 1,975 and 3,550 calories per day, with only 18 percent of their calories from protein, 32 percent from fat and 50 percent from carbohydrates, including refined, processed starches.

Atherosclerosis — clogged arteries that can lead to a heart attack or stroke — already is the leading cause of death in the Western world, and the problem is continuing to grow.

So Holloszy's team specifically focused on the risk factors for this condition. The researchers measured multiple indications of early or impending atherosclerosis, including blood pressure and levels of several biological markers in the blood, including cholesterol and triglycerides.

They also measured the levels of glucose and insulin in the blood to gauge diabetes risk, another major health concern for Americans.

People in the calorie restriction group had total and low-density lipoprotein — known as LDL or "bad" cholesterol — levels comparable to the lowest 10 percent of the population in their respective age groups.

Their high-density lipoprotein — known as HDL or "good" cholesterol — levels were in the 85th percentile to 90th percentile for middle-aged men.

That finding was a surprise because HDL levels typically decrease when individuals follow low-fat diets to lose weight.

Triglyceride levels — which, when elevated, can lead to atherosclerosis — were even more impressive in the calorie restriction group: They were lower than more than 95 percent of Americans in their 20s, despite the fact that the study participants' ages ranged from 35-82.

In contrast, cholesterol and triglyceride levels in the comparison group were in the 50th percentile for average middle-aged Americans. Moreover, 12 of the individuals in the calorie restriction group provided medical records from before and during the diet.

Their cholesterol and triglyceride scores also were close to the 50th percentile for middle-aged Americans before the diet, and levels fell the most dramatically during their first year of calorie restriction.

Blood pressure scores in the restricted group also were equivalent to those of much younger individuals. The average blood pressure in the normal diet group was about 130/80, which is standard for a typical American.

In comparison, the calorie restriction group's average was about 100/60, akin to the blood pressure of an average 10-year-old.

Fasting glucose and insulin — both markers of the risk of developing diabetes — also were significantly lower in the calorie restriction group, with insulin concentrations as much as 65 percent lower.

All other risk factors measured also were significantly better in the calorie-restriction group.

They included body mass index, body fat mass, C-reactive protein and the thickness of the carotid artery, the main blood vessel that runs from the heart to the brain.

"These effects are all pretty dramatic," Fontana said. "For the first time, we've shown that calorie restriction is feasible and has a tremendous effect on the risk for atherosclerosis and diabetes."

The team is conducting a controlled, prospective study comparing calorie restriction to the average American diet.

The researchers ultimately hope to follow these individuals for a longer period of time to assess the long-term effects of calorie restriction on biological markers of aging.

why are you posting more bullshit ?

no one disagrees that calorie reduction is healthier - untill malnutrition sets in that is ::)

you claimed the threshold for problems to develop are simply not possible when consuming limited calories.

so wheres the proof that eating trans fats, sugar, etc is not dangerous or unhealthy because you eat reduced calories.  ???
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 10:03:06 AM
why are you posting more bullshit ?

no one disagrees that calorie reduction is healthier - untill malnutrition sets in that is ::)

you claimed the threshold for problems to develop are simply not possible when consuming limited calories.

so wheres the proof that eating trans fats, sugar, etc is not dangerous or unhealthy because you eat reduced calories.  ???

How many times can this guy keep getting off the canvas and post more nonsense?  He's tireless in his fruitless pursuit of proving others wrong.  He's a glutton for punishment.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: drkaje on November 19, 2008, 10:05:21 AM
Prove "a calorie is a calorie".
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 10:05:38 AM
How many times can this guy keep getting off the canvas and post more nonsense?  He's tireless in his fruitless pursuit of proving others wrong.  He's a glutton for punishment.

i think he knows he's wrong and simply can not admit it because he will feel like a fool.

what he doesn't realise is that he looks like a fool for persiting in this nonsense.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 10:06:06 AM
yes, but not at the expense of their health.

from burgers i would try steak, from deep fried chicken in batter, i would try lemon pepper chicken fillets.

deep fried fries to over baked fries

all healthier options - and just as tasty. - less calories too.

however on your diet, telling a fat guy/girl he can eat his ice cream but stop at half a tub, is like telling a crack addict to only smoke half the pipe ::) its not going to happen.

I disagree. The worst thing for their health is their weight. That's the first priority. I also disagree that those foods are equal in taste. Try putting them on your diet and I try putting them on mine. I am pretty sure that more people in my group will stay on the diet for the first year.

I say that from my own experience. I am a lazy slacker, just like most obese people (at least when it comes to dieting). I have a much easier time on my current diet than I ever had on a "clean" diet.

As I said, after they have learned that they can very well lose weight on their current diet, more food variety can be introduced. As soon as the motivation is there, it will be no problem anymore.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 10:09:27 AM
i think he knows he's wrong and simply can not admit it because he will feel like a fool.

what he doesn't realise is that he looks like a fool for persiting in this nonsense.

I agree - he lacks the ability to self-analyze and find a better way to communicate his ideas.  He's rather dense.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: mazrim on November 19, 2008, 10:11:49 AM

You know what, find ONE guy who has some credibility and credentials to back up what you preach.  Just that may get you some respect (not much but some).  Right now you guys like AssHoletic and Falcon and others backing you up.  You have no one real behind you.  Hope this helps, cause I like your stick-to-it-tiveness but you are fighting a battle you can't win right now.
He just showed you one and as I stated earlier Layne Norton, Tommy Jeffers, their clients, etc. believe much of the same.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: drkaje on November 19, 2008, 10:12:44 AM
I agree - he lacks the ability to self-analyze and find a better way to communicate his ideas.  He's rather dense.

Adumbass owns you all.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 10:17:08 AM
This brings to mind the old adage "Excuses are like assholes, everyone's got one"  Instead of wasting bandwidth and time cutting and pasting all your gibberish why don't you go to the gym get some size on your bones, follow your diet and show people what you can do instead of just talking about it.  Sorry son but not many people will take a 6' tall 160 lb kid seriously.  All you do is talk.  You have nothing to back it up (except when you say science).  Can you imagine how embarrassed you would be in front of Jeez and your one friend AssHoletic if they saw you debating someone in person who knows what they are talking about. 

You know what, find ONE guy who has some credibility and credentials to back up what you preach.  Just that may get you some respect (not much but some).  Right now you guys like AssHoletic and Falcon and others backing you up.  You have no one real behind you.  Hope this helps, cause I like your stick-to-it-tiveness but you are fighting a battle you can't win right now.

What do you think a lifetime natural at 6' should weigh at under 8% BF?
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 10:17:46 AM
I disagree. The worst thing for their health is their weight. That's the first priority. I also disagree that those foods are equal in taste. Try putting them on your diet and I try putting them on mine. I am pretty sure that more people in my group will stay on the diet for the first year.

I say that from my own experience. I am a lazy slacker, just like most obese people (at least when it comes to dieting). I have a much easier time on my current diet than I ever had on a "clean" diet.

As I said, after they have lerned that they can very well lose weight on their current diet, more food variety can be introduced. As soon as the motivation is there, it will be no problem anymore.


your missing the point. there are other healthier tasty foods, it does not have to be bland chicken etc.

poison is poison - regardless of there being less.

your people may lose weight, and be slightly healthier due to the drop in calories.

my people would lose weight and be much healthier, due to the drop in calories and the eradication of transfats.

regarding the ability to stick to a diet long term, i disagree. Having them eat the foods that got them fat in the first place - high sugars, high fats, candy, etc will not work for 95% of the population.

everybody on the planet knows to lose weight all they have to do is eat less, why arn't they achieving it then ?

there is hormonal fluctuations, insulin, serotonin, etc that all play a part in making junk food like a drug in terms of addictions. not to mention greed.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 10:19:18 AM
Prove "a calorie is a calorie".
2nd law of Thermodynamics.
Simple, Burn 1000 calories of Fat, 1000 Calories of Protein and 1000 calories of Carbohydrates and measure the heat. You can also burn anything to 1000 calories of heat given off, stone, wood, steel and so on.

A calorie will ALWAYS be a calorie.  A macro nutrient is not a macro nutrient and I think you may be getting that confused.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 19, 2008, 10:21:32 AM
this drug like effect from food is directly correlated to bodyfat levels too. so the slimmer they get the easier it is to diet- until extreme leanness is sought, then they have to fight the starvation signals.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: onlyme on November 19, 2008, 10:26:39 AM
How many times can this guy keep getting off the canvas and post more nonsense?  He's tireless in his fruitless pursuit of proving others wrong.  He's a glutton for punishment.

The thing Apenis doesnt get in his head is that all he does is post shit others have already done.  He thinks in his head that he has come up with some new method of dieting or getting in shape.  Nothing he has said or done is original.  It is all from other peoples work and research.  He puts a little twist on it tells everyone this is how you do it but can't produce any proof it works.  He is a funny guy

What do you think a lifetime natural at 6' should weigh at under 8% BF?

If you going to come on a BB board and preach to people who lift weights and so forth and constantly tell pro athletes they look like shit or are weak or have no muscle then at least show signs you are better than them and better built.  No matter how you look at it, Apenis is in shape but he is skinny as hell.  And he says he doesn't do cardio or you don't need it.  What kind of shape is he is (regardless of what he weighs).  I again will go backwards in time like I always do but at 300 lbs. I guarantee he could not outdo me cardio wise.  I was riding my bike (up hills too) to the gym twice a day at 7 miles each way.  I did additional cardio at the gym in the morning workout.  I would come home swim a little then go down to the high school and practice.  On weekends I would tie a 120 lb truck tire around my waist and pull it around Diamond Head.  And at the same time I was still benching close to 500.  SO I guarantee you his skinny ass would not come close to me in cardio regardless how skinny he is.

Getting back to your question, why is he 8% bodyfat.  He should weigh about 190 to 200 looking trim and with muscle.  And he associates being skinny with being healthy.  What is his cholesterol levels.  you would think with him being so "in shape" they would be awesome.  I bet my levels are lower or at least even with his.  I am 150 pounds heavier than I was.  So him saying skinny is healthy is stupid.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 10:32:30 AM
McDiet


After seeing the media portray several "McDieters," I had to respond as a fellow fast-food "veteran!" I am a 32 year-old wellness consultant, mother and nutrition student from Huntersville, North Carolina, and encountered surprising results during my month of "McMaintenance" in July 2004.

My decision to embark on this project resulted from the movie, "Supersize Me," in which Morgan Spurlock ate his way into a 25-pound weight gain in 30 days. While I was intrigued by his message - fast food can make you fat - I challenged myself to design a better approach.

Even though I am a fan of a more moderate approach to diet and exercise, I felt compelled to commit to this challenge for 30 days, too. I wanted to prove that fast food doesn't necessarily make us fat; rather, it's the choices we make over time that impact our health! We need to accept personal responsibility for those choices.


McMaintenance


So I designed my own version of the McDiet: eat McDonald's foods only for an entire month AND fall within the Recommended Daily Allowances for fat, protein, carbohydrates, calories, sodium and cholesterol. I used the "Bag-A-McMeal" section of McDonald's website to write a plan and stay within these guidelines each day. As a result, I ate healthfully for 30 days and actually lost weight!



Planning And Exercise


I kept detailed records on the specific foods I ate, along with portion sizes and nutritional content. Physicians calculated my weight, blood profile and body fat percentage, plus performed a complete physical, at both the beginning and end of the diet.

Along with the eating plan, I kept my workout regime the same as the previous month (I ate my "regular" foods in June). I exercised six days a week for no more than an hour each day, splitting the time into 30 minutes of cardio (running, walking or elliptical trainer) and 20 minutes of resistance training (weights).

This exercise plan continues to be my usual routine most months of the year. I called my plan, "McMaintenance," since I hoped to at least maintain my good physical shape.


Results


After thirty days of my eating endeavor, I dropped six pounds from my 5'6" frame (118 lbs. to 112 lbs.)!

My body fat decreased from 11.1% to 10%. Also, my triglyceride levels fell. My total cholesterol rose, although largely due to an increase in HDL cholesterol.


    What Are Triglycerides?
Triglycerides are the main components of vegetable oil and animal fats, and form much of the fat stored by the human body. They consist of glycerin (a sweet, syrupy liquid) plus 3 individual fatty acids all mixed together.
Triglycerides play an important role in metabolism as energy sources. They contain twice as much energy (8000 kcal/kg) as carbohydrates.

In the human body, high levels of triglycerides in the bloodstream, however, have been linked to atherosclerosis, pancreatitis, and, by extension, the risk of heart disease and stroke.

Cardiovascular exercise and low-moderate carbohydrate diets containing essential fatty acids are recommended for reducing triglyceride levels. When these fail, statin drugs are used to reduce triglyceride levels.



Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 10:34:16 AM
:)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Cromespyder on November 19, 2008, 10:36:15 AM
TA,whats your oppinion on mercury? do you think eating too much tuna is bad for your health? i eat 4 cans a day on average.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: BroadStreetBruiser on November 19, 2008, 10:37:11 AM
TA,whats your oppinion on mercury? do you think eating too much tuna is bad for your health? i eat 4 cans a day on average.

I won't answer for TA but apparently mercury is only a concern w/ Albacore since it's an older fish and has time to acrue more mercury within it. Chunk light is made from young tuna schools and not as bad.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 10:37:53 AM
(http://www.guy/super_size/chazz_weaver.jpg)

(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/_not_gallery_pix/eMag_41_Kiakadasok_04.jpg)

He got to the meat of his argument
'Chazz' Weaver ate only fast food for 30 days, challenging assumptions about diet.
By BRIAN MARTINEZ
The Orange County Register
COSTA MESA – Charles "Chazz" Weaver on Friday completed his monthlong McDonald's-only experiment, claimed he lost 8 pounds in the project, and challenged the creator of the "Super Size Me" film to a public debate on obesity and fast food.
Weaver, 48, ate nothing but McDonald's fare for 30 consecutive days – every menu item at least once – to prove that staying thin is about calorie intake and exercise. His credentials are his fit body, 19 years of studying fitness as a hobby, and helping friends lose weight.
"I am not an advocate of fast food as a lifestyle, but neither do you have to be on a so- called diet," he said.
His strength and energy have not diminished and he hasn't had negative effects, he said.
"Not even a headache or a mood swing," he said.

Statistics detailing 30-day experiment
Weight: 222 pounds on Day 1 and 214 pounds on Day 30
Blood pressure: 111/78 on Day 1 and 121/81 on Day 30
Cholesterol: 208 at the start of the project; he will retest today and should have results on his Web site by Monday
The last meal: Friday, April 30, 4:30 p.m. Big Mac, Double Cheeseburger, 6-piece Chicken McNuggets, snack-size Fruit & Yogurt Parfait, medium Diet Coke – total calories: 1,550
Media interviews: 50-75, mostly for radio talk shows
Exercise: 25-30 minutes of cardio training and 50-60 minutes of strength training, six days a week
Verification: A witness was present to videotape meals.
Calories: Started at 3,500 daily calories but has fluctuated as high as 5,700. He warns that this amount is tailored for his body and exercise regimen and is not for a typical person. Before starting the challenge, he used protein shakes and bars but no other supplements.
Favorite item: McGriddle breakfast sandwich
Least favorite item: The ice cream
Seminar: Weaver will give a free fitness seminar and a report on his 30-day challenge today at Triangle Square, 1870 Harbor Blvd., Costa Mesa, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m.


The Costa Mesa resident is fed up with Americans who don't take responsibility for being out of shape, fitness entrepreneurs who make a living on incomplete information, and overweight nutrition scholars who don't "walk the walk," he said. He hopes the project will inspire people to research fitness and help them lose weight.
He got the idea for his experiment after reading about and taking exception to the documentary, "Super Size Me," which records the deterioration of filmmaker Morgan Spurlock's health. Spurlock ate almost as many calories as Weaver, but his only exercise was walking the same amount of steps as the average American.
"I think its great that Chazz is attempting to stay fit," Spurlock said through a spokesman Friday. "The underlying theme in my film is to try to increase personal and corporate responsibility."
He declined to respond to Weaver's debate challenge.
At least five people have taken up experiments such as Weaver's, McDonald's spokesman Walt Riker said. He said the company has no connection with them or Weaver.
"There seems to be a grass- roots backlash against the outrageous misbehavior in Spurlock's film," Riker said. "Stuffing yourself and not exercising is irresponsible."

Weaver said he has spent about $13,000 of his own money on the project.
"I'm looking for the psychic benefit," he said. "Doing something good for people is really pleasurable."
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: d0nny2600 on November 19, 2008, 10:39:03 AM
:)
TA looking swole
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 10:39:32 AM
your missing the point. there are other healthier tasty foods, it does not have to be bland chicken etc.

poison is poison - regardless of there being less.

your people may lose weight, and be slightly healthier due to the drop in calories.

my people would lose weight and be much healthier, due to the drop in calories and the eradication of transfats.

regarding the ability to stick to a diet long term, i disagree. Having them eat the foods that got them fat in the first place - high sugars, high fats, candy, etc will not work for 95% of the population.

everybody on the planet knows to lose weight all they have to do is eat less, why arn't they achieving it then ?

there is hormonal fluctuations, insulin, serotonin, etc that all play a part in making junk food like a drug in terms of addictions. not to mention greed.

Any studies on how people can stick to a diet leaning towards my approach vs. your approach? What is preached today is your approach and obviously people cannot stick to it.

What is "poison" and what is not changes a lot in nutrition science over the years. Everything in excess is potentially bad.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 10:39:57 AM
(http://www.guy/super_size/chazz_weaver.jpg)

(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/_not_gallery_pix/eMag_41_Kiakadasok_04.jpg)

He got to the meat of his argument
'Chazz' Weaver ate only fast food for 30 days, challenging assumptions about diet.
By BRIAN MARTINEZ
The Orange County Register
COSTA MESA – Charles "Chazz" Weaver on Friday completed his monthlong McDonald's-only experiment, claimed he lost 8 pounds in the project, and challenged the creator of the "Super Size Me" film to a public debate on obesity and fast food.
Weaver, 48, ate nothing but McDonald's fare for 30 consecutive days – every menu item at least once – to prove that staying thin is about calorie intake and exercise. His credentials are his fit body, 19 years of studying fitness as a hobby, and helping friends lose weight.
"I am not an advocate of fast food as a lifestyle, but neither do you have to be on a so- called diet," he said.
His strength and energy have not diminished and he hasn't had negative effects, he said.
"Not even a headache or a mood swing," he said.

Statistics detailing 30-day experiment
Weight: 222 pounds on Day 1 and 214 pounds on Day 30
Blood pressure: 111/78 on Day 1 and 121/81 on Day 30
Cholesterol: 208 at the start of the project; he will retest today and should have results on his Web site by Monday
The last meal: Friday, April 30, 4:30 p.m. Big Mac, Double Cheeseburger, 6-piece Chicken McNuggets, snack-size Fruit & Yogurt Parfait, medium Diet Coke – total calories: 1,550
Media interviews: 50-75, mostly for radio talk shows
Exercise: 25-30 minutes of cardio training and 50-60 minutes of strength training, six days a week
Verification: A witness was present to videotape meals.
Calories: Started at 3,500 daily calories but has fluctuated as high as 5,700. He warns that this amount is tailored for his body and exercise regimen and is not for a typical person. Before starting the challenge, he used protein shakes and bars but no other supplements.
Favorite item: McGriddle breakfast sandwich
Least favorite item: The ice cream
Seminar: Weaver will give a free fitness seminar and a report on his 30-day challenge today at Triangle Square, 1870 Harbor Blvd., Costa Mesa, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m.


The Costa Mesa resident is fed up with Americans who don't take responsibility for being out of shape, fitness entrepreneurs who make a living on incomplete information, and overweight nutrition scholars who don't "walk the walk," he said. He hopes the project will inspire people to research fitness and help them lose weight.
He got the idea for his experiment after reading about and taking exception to the documentary, "Super Size Me," which records the deterioration of filmmaker Morgan Spurlock's health. Spurlock ate almost as many calories as Weaver, but his only exercise was walking the same amount of steps as the average American.
"I think its great that Chazz is attempting to stay fit," Spurlock said through a spokesman Friday. "The underlying theme in my film is to try to increase personal and corporate responsibility."
He declined to respond to Weaver's debate challenge.
At least five people have taken up experiments such as Weaver's, McDonald's spokesman Walt Riker said. He said the company has no connection with them or Weaver.
"There seems to be a grass- roots backlash against the outrageous misbehavior in Spurlock's film," Riker said. "Stuffing yourself and not exercising is irresponsible."

Weaver said he has spent about $13,000 of his own money on the project.
"I'm looking for the psychic benefit," he said. "Doing something good for people is really pleasurable."
Okay, here are the results:

Weight – I started at 222lbs and in thirty days I dropped 8lbs of “body fat”, ending the thirty days at 214lbs.
Blood Pressure - I started at 111/71, a bit low, and ended the thirty days at 121/81 which is optimal.
Cholesterol – this is where you need to understand about cholesterol!
My HDL (the good cholesterol) improved 80%.
My LDL (the bad cholesterol) went down 2 points. That’s an improvement!
My overall cholesterol went up 6% because of my HDL improvement, however this is an improvement overall.
My Triglycerides improved 42%
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 10:42:07 AM
Okay, here are the results:

Weight – I started at 222lbs and in thirty days I dropped 8lbs of “body fat”, ending the thirty days at 214lbs.
Blood Pressure - I started at 111/71, a bit low, and ended the thirty days at 121/81 which is optimal.
Cholesterol – this is where you need to understand about cholesterol!
My HDL (the good cholesterol) improved 80%.
My LDL (the bad cholesterol) went down 2 points. That’s an improvement!
My overall cholesterol went up 6% because of my HDL improvement, however this is an improvement overall.
My Triglycerides improved 42%

Hello. I want to thank you very much for visiting Truth In Fitness. I feel honored that you’ve taken time out of your busy schedule to visit this website. For those of you who don’t already know who I am, allow me to introduce myself. My name is Chazz Weaver . I’m a 48 year old economist with my master’s degree. However, nutrition and fitness has been a passion of mine for the past 19 years. During the past 19 years I’ve done extensive research regarding health and fitness and applied my findings to my own lifestyle as well as coached others in their own quest for weight loss. So, let me start at the beginning and give you some background information on why I’ve embarked on the “McDonald’s Diet” project.

             For years I’ve been concerned about the mountain of misinformation that the health and fitness industry places before the public in order to make a profit selling their goods and services. We’ve all seen the ads for diet plans, exercise equipment, gym memberships and personal trainers that claim by using their particular product or service you will “in no time” be looking like Mr. or Mrs. America. Or the industry experts that spew out facts and figures about how to achieve weight loss, when they themselves are generally overweight. All of this misinformation leaves the general public with only bits and pieces of the entire picture.
           I’ve seen so many people pointing fingers at the fast food industry, placing blame on them for the acceleration of obesity in America, instead of taking personal accountability for their problems. And after reading about Morgan Spurlock’s documentary “Supersize Me” I just knew it was time to put all the pieces of the puzzle together and help educate the public about the real picture of health and fitness.

          The following journal is a daily account of my 30 day journey through the golden arches of fast food. I will be eating McDonald’s food, and only McDonald’s food, for the next 30 day’s. My objective is to prove that through proper caloric intake and exercise (aerobic & anaerobic) it’s possible to eat a variety of foods, including fast food, without gaining fat. Please be aware that I am not advocating fast food as a lifestyle. I am merely demonstrating that it is possible, that with proper information and education, to eat McDonald’s food for 30 day’s and not gain any fat. I will be eating everything on the menu at least once during the 30 day’s and will not be making alterations or adjustments to the items. Every day will be documented by means of video tape, signed statements from witnesses at every meal, receipts collected from every meal which list exact items purchased and have a time and date stamp.

       I hope you’ll be able to join me for a free health and fitness seminar on May 1, 2004 from 11 am – 1 pm at Triangle Square located in the heart of Costa Mesa. I will be discussing my experience during the McDonald’s 30-day challenge and reflect on the following three components of fitness: The human body and its efficiency; how the human body uses calories (proteins, carbohydrates and fat); and why people need to exercise in order to have a better quality of life.


Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: drkaje on November 19, 2008, 10:51:12 AM
2nd law of Thermodynamics.
Simple, Burn 1000 calories of Fat, 1000 Calories of Protein and 1000 calories of Carbohydrates and measure the heat. You can also burn anything to 1000 calories of heat given off, stone, wood, steel and so on.

A calorie will ALWAYS be a calorie.  A macro nutrient is not a macro nutrient and I think you may be getting that confused.

Half true. Yes, the thermodynamic effect would be equal but in terms of pre-burn physiology all food isn't equal. Unless challenged, you (and others) love to say "a calorie is a calorie" while knowing that's only true in one specific context.

Almost anyone would lose weight on 2500 Cal/day.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 10:52:35 AM
If you going to come on a BB board and preach to people who lift weights and so forth and constantly tell pro athletes they look like shit or are weak or have no muscle then at least show signs you are better than them and better built.  No matter how you look at it, Apenis is in shape but he is skinny as hell.  And he says he doesn't do cardio or you don't need it.  What kind of shape is he is (regardless of what he weighs).  I again will go backwards in time like I always do but at 300 lbs. I guarantee he could not outdo me cardio wise.  I was riding my bike (up hills too) to the gym twice a day at 7 miles each way.  I did additional cardio at the gym in the morning workout.  I would come home swim a little then go down to the high school and practice.  On weekends I would tie a 120 lb truck tire around my waist and pull it around Diamond Head.  And at the same time I was still benching close to 500.  SO I guarantee you his skinny ass would not come close to me in cardio regardless how skinny he is.

I don't know if he has challenged your athletic capabilities. I would not, that's not the topic IMO.

Getting back to your question, why is he 8% bodyfat.  He should weigh about 190 to 200 looking trim and with muscle.  And he associates being skinny with being healthy.  What is his cholesterol levels.  you would think with him being so "in shape" they would be awesome.  I bet my levels are lower or at least even with his.  I am 150 pounds heavier than I was.  So him saying skinny is healthy is stupid.

The main topic of this thread was how to get in shape for a BB competition. For a lifetime natural bodybuilder, TA has excellent size for his frame and current condition. You said that someone of his physique cannot possibly know anything about bodybuilding.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 10:54:12 AM

at the bottom of this page adoins' is claiming to look like 'timberwolf'.

he is truly delusional.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=133789.100
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 19, 2008, 10:56:37 AM
Just because eating foods that are traditionally thought of as "shitty" and losing weight is possible, it doesn't mean that it's the most plausible route. I don't think anyone's arguing that a McChicken is going to destroy someone, even if it's consumed on a fairly regular occasion.

If someone's struggling with weight loss, I'm not going to prescribe a McDumbass diet for them. Keep it simple. Get them into the right frame of mind. Most people can look at a cornicopia of food and have absolutely no idea what to pick from it to comprise a balanced meal. When it comes to eating, most people are absolute fucktards with no sense of direction. No need to confuse the masses. While their are some shitty studies out there, we've still barely scratched the surface.

Bodybuilders have pioneered extreme dieting and what they do works - plain and simple. I eat loosely like a bodybuilder, but with the understanding that there's room for un and sensibility (I'm not going to carry chicken breast and tapalia in my pocket in case I become "catabolic" lol)... but still, enough with all the fucking McDonalds bullshit. I don't know what the fixation on junk food is all about. I like to indulge from time to time but I'm not going eat and breathe shitty food day in, day out. That's just poor advice no matter how you look at it.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 11:00:03 AM
at the bottom of this page adoins' is claiming to look like 'timberwolf'.

he is truly delusional.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=133789.100
I am in his size range.

He is 5`10 160-175
I am 5`11 160-175
I am within his range.

He does have about 20 plus years of lifting on me though.  :-\







(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133789.0;attach=287082;image)






(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=247430.0;attach=286733;image)



(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=247266.0;attach=286719;image)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 11:01:37 AM
Just because eating foods that are traditionally thought of as "shitty" and losing weight is possible, it doesn't mean that it's the most plausible route. I don't think anyone's arguing that a McChicken is going to destroy someone, even if it's consumed on a fairly regular occasion.

If someone's struggling with weight loss, I'm not going to prescribe a McDumbass diet for them. Keep it simple. Get them into the right frame of mind. Most people can look at a cornicopia of food and have absolutely no idea what to pick from it to comprise a balanced meal. When it comes to eating, most people are absolute fucktards with no sense of direction. No need to confuse the masses. While their are some shitty studies out there, we've still barely scratched the surface.

Bodybuilders have pioneered extreme dieting and what they do works - plain and simple. I eat loosely like a bodybuilder, but with the understanding that there's room for un and sensibility (I'm not going to carry chicken breast and tapalia in my pocket in case I become "catabolic" lol)... but still, enough with all the fucking McDonalds bullshit. I don't know what the fixation on junk food is all about. I like to indulge from time to time but I'm not going eat and breathe shitty food day in, day out. That's just poor advice no matter how you look at it.
Demonizing food puts the novice in the WRONG frame of mind.
Again, Mcdonalds is not "junk food". There is no such thing as "junk Food".
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 11:02:36 AM
I am in his size range.

He is 5`10 160-175
I am 5`11 160-175
I am within his range.

He does have about 20 plus years of lifting on me though.  :-\



you actually believe you look like he does, don't you?

are you mad?

seriously.

your fucked.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 11:03:32 AM
you actually believe you look like he does, don't you?

are you mad?

seriously.

your fucked.
No. He looks better in my opinion.  I have to get a bit leaner to best him.
I am in his size range though.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 11:04:10 AM
Two physiques hard to compare. Completely different structures. Timberwolf looks a lot more impressive in front and back shots due to his structure.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 11:08:20 AM
No. He looks better in my opinion.  I have to get a bit leaner to best him.
I am in his size range though.

no, you are not.

the only reason your upper body has the appearance of size is due to your rib cage, thats all.

don't get it twisted.

timberwolf is holding at least 20 pounds of lean tissue on you.

so, the question still remains, since you state it is just as easy to gain muscle as it is to lose fat, why do you not look like him?

Completly wrong.

You can add muscle just as fast.

Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: chester_bbb on November 19, 2008, 11:28:00 AM
A bodybuilder wants to add as much muscle as possible and eventually get lean. Otherwise it's not bodybuilding, it's just gaining weight. What would be your definition of the purpose of bodybuilding?

Picture of you dieted down to 8% BF as a lifetime natural?

 ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: chester_bbb on November 19, 2008, 11:28:47 AM
What do you think a lifetime natural at 6' should weigh at under 8% BF?

 ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 11:29:12 AM
no, you are not.

the only reason your upper body has the appearance of size is due to your rib cage, thats all.

don't get it twisted.

timberwolf is holding at least 20 pounds of lean tissue on you.

so, the question still remains, since you state it is just as easy to gain muscle as it is to lose fat, why do you not look like him?



bump for an answer...
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 11:46:05 AM
::)

So you don't belive I'm lifetime natural or you don't believe TA is?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 11:48:15 AM
So you don't belive I'm lifetime natural or you don't believe TA is?

nobody cares about you.

has anything in this thread been about you? no.

hope this helps.

Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 12:22:23 PM
The thing Apenis doesnt get in his head is that all he does is post shit others have already done.  He thinks in his head that he has come up with some new method of dieting or getting in shape.  Nothing he has said or done is original.  It is all from other peoples work and research.  He puts a little twist on it tells everyone this is how you do it but can't produce any proof it works.  He is a funny guy

Right on the money!  Couldn't have said it any better.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 12:52:03 PM
nobody cares about you.
has anything in this thread been about you? no.
hope this helps.

:'(
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: dustin on November 19, 2008, 02:32:28 PM
Demonizing food puts the novice in the WRONG frame of mind.
Again, Mcdonalds is not "junk food". There is no such thing as "junk Food".

No, Adam. You're a smart guy and I know you can comprehend this. McDonalds is generally JUNK FOOD. Junk food >>>DOES<<< exist. Pre packaged meals that don't fit ANYONE's nutritional requirements is JUNK FOOD lol

Who needs grams of trans fat and thousands of mg of sodium in one sitting? I'm not for all the fear mongering by any means, thinking a little sodium will kill me, etc... but that isn't exceptionally conducive to one's health if eaten on a regular occasion. If it's eaten from time to time, it's not a detriment. But all the time... no. I would classify that as JUNK FOOD.

You can eat rice and grains all the time and it wouldn't be bad for you. If you eat lean cuts of meat and fish all the time, as long as you don't have an inflammatory illness it would be fine as well. If you eat veggies all the time, it will be fine. As long as a grossly obscene amount of these foods aren't eaten, you'll generally be fine. If you eat more than a moderate amount of McDicks, it WILL be a detriment to your health.

I honestly eat McDicks from time to time. Usually after a workout for the calories and quick fix. I otherwise love cooking nice ass meals and prepping extra for later in the day or the next morning. I don't fear that I'm going to die from it because I'm not living off it as a staple, like most fat asses can tend to do.

I am very lean too. I know it can be done but again, lets not tell everyone that there's no such thing as junk food. A can of pop is horrible, horrible junk food. It's liquid calories. Something that'll spike the glycemic index and probably create free radicals from all the shit that's in it. You can't tell me that a normal, sedentary person can drink pop all day long and become healthy from it. It is probably one of the mitigating factors for the world epidemic that is FATNESS. Diabetes, cardiovascular disease and other directly related degenerative conditions can all be prevented simply from not being delusion about food. You can't selectively agree with studies, Adam. You sputter how we need so little protein above the RDA, then say Ben and Jerry's isn't bad. Jesus Christ... you can't have it both ways. Everything in moderation. For those who are morbidly obese, no fun junk foods PERIOD. They've revoked their right to eating junk. End of story.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 02:34:20 PM
:'(

Hey Wave, would you mind posting your avatar pic? Was just curious to see it bigger and more detail. If not I understand.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 02:37:23 PM
wow, this thread really took off  :o
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 02:38:39 PM
Hey Wave, would you mind posting your avatar pic? Was just curious to see it bigger and more detail. If not I understand.

All my pics are in my progress thread (the webpage in my profile). Avatar pic is the last.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 02:41:35 PM
I'm not exactly the poster boy for the TA principles, I must admit ;D
Title: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 02:44:09 PM
...break in half as the Saskatchewan heavy winter winds start rolling in soon.


discuss.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: El_Pajero on November 19, 2008, 02:45:52 PM
fuck you alex.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: CAPTAIN INSANO on November 19, 2008, 02:45:57 PM
...break in half as the Saskatchewan heavy winter winds start rolling in soon.


discuss.

Be careful, we don't want any arab terrorists in the states ;D ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Stavios on November 19, 2008, 02:46:37 PM
I should do like you and get the fuck out from this country before the snow arrives   8)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ARAGO on November 19, 2008, 02:47:02 PM
lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alex23 is the funniest.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 02:47:33 PM
...break in half as the Saskatchewan heavy winter winds start rolling in soon.


discuss.
::)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 02:49:30 PM
Is it a recent pic in your avatar, alex?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 02:50:18 PM
::)

are there thingz  A-S-Juice?

Keep walking away u freak..

(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/012.jpg)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: El_Pajero on November 19, 2008, 02:50:57 PM
ahmad would fuck you up alex. he is a very strong tall and big guy
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 02:53:09 PM
ahmad would fuck you up alex. he is a very strong tall and big guy

Serious? I just shat myself...

(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/DCS789032.jpg)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: TechnoViking on November 19, 2008, 02:53:22 PM
...break in half as the Saskatchewan heavy winter winds start rolling in soon.


discuss.

I think he will break in half if the munkin's don't use some stronger wood to hold him up when the Saskatchewan's winds happen


Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: El_Pajero on November 19, 2008, 02:53:52 PM
Serious? I just shat myself...

(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/DCS789032.jpg)

what kind of hair products do you use? do you use any mousse or gel?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: CAPTAIN INSANO on November 19, 2008, 02:54:49 PM
Serious? I just shat myself...

(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/DCS789032.jpg)


Be afraid Alex ::) ::)

Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 02:56:12 PM
Serious? I just shat myself...

(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/DCS789032.jpg)



 ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 02:57:16 PM
what kind of hair products do you use? do you use any mousse or gel?

I use black people hair products... like softsheen-Carson. My hair are very think; these products keep them down without the wet crunchy shit look.. best gel.
(http://www.softsheen-carson.com/images/product/packshot/PROD_SSC115_med.jpg)

Can't beat that pretty boy look:
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/0f87a56b7.jpg)

Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: avesher on November 19, 2008, 02:58:01 PM
its all blizzard here today kids
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ahh.. fk on November 19, 2008, 02:58:41 PM
Be afraid Alex ::) ::)




LMAO!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 02:58:55 PM
its all blizzard here today kids

are you saying AXA should stay in then?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: El_Pajero on November 19, 2008, 02:59:07 PM
I use black people hair products... like softsheen-Carson. My hair are very think; these products keep them down without the wet crunchy shit look.. best gel.
(http://www.softsheen-carson.com/images/product/packshot/PROD_SSC115_med.jpg)

Can't beat that pretty boy look:
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/0f87a56b7.jpg)



You are a very attractive man Alex.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Devon97 on November 19, 2008, 02:59:13 PM
Alex, any pics of the future Mrs. Alex?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 03:00:17 PM

LMAO!


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FFS... like I said a face only a Mujahadeen mother could love...
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 03:01:15 PM
Alex, any pics of the future Mrs. Alex?

The now Mrs. Alex... ;D

Not risking this one but she's quite the pretty girl ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: avesher on November 19, 2008, 03:01:44 PM
are you saying AXA should stay in then?

well there is a significant 18 mph wind--he may end up in Moose Jaw
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Devon97 on November 19, 2008, 03:02:17 PM
Sorry brudda, gonna need proof!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 03:02:37 PM

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FFS... like I said a face only a Mujahadeen mother could love...

Alex would you like compare faces?
cuz I'd be glad to do that
since I have had modeling contracts and you? .......... ::)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: CAPTAIN INSANO on November 19, 2008, 03:04:09 PM
Alex would you like compare faces?
cuz I'd be glad to do that
since I have had modeling contracts and you? .......... ::)

Enough with the blatant lies Ahamad.

I exposed you for who you were. A fucking loser!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 03:04:26 PM
Alex would you like compare faces?
cuz I'd be glad to do that
since I have had modeling contracts and you? .......... ::)

Where did you have modeling contracts?  PROVE IT.
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: leonp1981 on November 19, 2008, 03:04:39 PM
(http://www.obesityinamerica.org/trends_files/trends4.gif)

If being obese is a reflection of intelligence level, then this also proves that people are getting less intelligent.

I'd buy that, young people are stoopid.   :D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: El_Pajero on November 19, 2008, 03:04:55 PM
It's true, Ahmad has modelling contracts.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 03:07:02 PM
Alex would you like compare faces?
cuz I'd be glad to do that
since I have had modeling contracts and you? .......... ::)

Alex would you like compare faces?
cuz I'd be glad to do that
since I have had modeling contracts and you? .......... ::)

HAHAHAH @ "modeling contracts"... get a Master's degree and get defense contracts @ 195/hrs and then we'll compare...


plus that face doesn't get pulled over at every security checkpoint imaginable...

(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/x31001.jpg)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: avesher on November 19, 2008, 03:07:10 PM
heres the lovely view from my upper east side downtown pointing to the alley penthouse

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/avesher/things003.jpg)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ARAGO on November 19, 2008, 03:08:03 PM
plus that face doesn't get pulled over at every security checkpoint imaginable...

:-X


Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: avesher on November 19, 2008, 03:08:07 PM
HAHAHAH @ "modeling contracts"... get a Master's degree and get defense contracts @ 195/hrs and then we'll compare...


plus that face doesn't get pulled over at every security checkpoint imaginable...

(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/x31001.jpg)


omggggg an online poker players dream setup
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ARAGO on November 19, 2008, 03:09:08 PM
heres the lovely view from my upper east side downtown pointing to the alley penthouse


omg that reminds me of the winter i spent in red deer, ab.

Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 03:19:18 PM
HAHAHAH @ "modeling contracts"... get a Master's degree and get defense contracts @ 195/hrs and then we'll compare...


plus that face doesn't get pulled over at every security checkpoint imaginable...


what do you have your masters degree in?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 03:23:24 PM
heres the lovely view from my upper east side downtown pointing to the alley penthouse
fuckin winter starts again in Canada  >:(
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: leonp1981 on November 19, 2008, 03:24:43 PM
Define junk food.  Also please list what I ate today.  Is Duck in Port sauce with a slice of Pecan Pie really junk food?  I think not.

Is your kitchen like one constant episode of Masterchef?  Don't you ever just have chicken and chips?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 03:26:15 PM
what do you have your masters degree in?

Comp Sc./Elec. Engineering
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 03:28:33 PM
Comp Sc./Elec. Engineering
sweet, my dad is an electrical engineer
I was thinking about switching to computer science and getting a masters in it actually
Business is as boring as shit  :-\
I assume you make a very good living off your degree  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 04:06:27 PM
All my pics are in my progress thread (the webpage in my profile). Avatar pic is the last.

OK thanks
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 04:13:17 PM
Is your kitchen like one constant episode of Masterchef?  Don't you ever just have chicken and chips?
I do.  I even eat oatmeal sometimes lol.  I just ate some Bittersweet Chocolate and a tall glass of Whole Milk.  That didn`t require any cooking.

But I do usually cook everyday.  Its addictive therapy.  I love the whole process from start to finish. 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: drkaje on November 19, 2008, 04:14:44 PM
Where do you guys think Adonis would have placed, based upon recent photos?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: leonp1981 on November 19, 2008, 04:24:21 PM
I do.  I even eat oatmeal sometimes lol.  I just ate some Bittersweet Chocolate and a tall glass of Whole Milk.  That didn`t require any cooking.

But I do usually cook everyday.  Its addictive therapy.  I love the whole process from start to finish. 

I wish I had the motivation, I just can't be bothered most of the time.  I do stretch myself to a stir-fry every now and then.  I might buy myself that cooking thing for the Nintendo DS!   :D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 04:32:03 PM
I wish I had the motivation, I just can't be bothered most of the time.  I do stretch myself to a stir-fry every now and then.  I might buy myself that cooking thing for the Nintendo DS!   :D


(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2165/2514508198_cedce626aa.jpg?v=0)
Give this a go my friend.

Its VERY simple and the BEST!

Charlie's Afternoon Chocolate Cake
 Payard's Chocolate Epiphany

10 tbsp (150g) unsalted butter
8 oz (250g) 60% chocolate, chopped
2 large eggs
2/3 cup (125g) granulated sugar
3/4 cup (75g) all purpose flour
9 inch round cake pan or springform pan

Place a rack in the center of the oven and preheat the oven to 350F. Spray the sides and bottom of a 9in round cake pan with cooking spray. Dust it with flour, shaking off the excess, and set aside.

Bring the butter to a boil in a medium saucepan over medium-high heat. Stir a couple of times to prevent it from burning. Remove from the heat and add the chocolate to the pan. Stir the mixture until the chocolate is melted and smooth.

Whisk together the eggs and sugar in a large bowl until well combined. Add the flour and mix well. Add the chocolate to the batter and stir until the mixture is just combined. Pour the batter into the prepared pan.

Bake for 15 minutes, then lower the oven to 300F and bake for an additional 8 minutes. Remove the cake from the oven and allow it to cool completely in the pan. Unmold and serve. This cake may be tightly wrapped and frozen for up to a month.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: onlyme on November 19, 2008, 04:43:51 PM

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2165/2514508198_cedce626aa.jpg?v=0)
Give this a go my friend.

Its VERY simple and the BEST!

Charlie's Afternoon Chocolate Cake
 Payard's Chocolate Epiphany

10 tbsp (150g) unsalted butter
8 oz (250g) 60% chocolate, chopped
2 large eggs
2/3 cup (125g) granulated sugar
3/4 cup (75g) all purpose flour
9 inch round cake pan or springform pan

Place a rack in the center of the oven and preheat the oven to 350F. Spray the sides and bottom of a 9in round cake pan with cooking spray. Dust it with flour, shaking off the excess, and set aside.

Bring the butter to a boil in a medium saucepan over medium-high heat. Stir a couple of times to prevent it from burning. Remove from the heat and add the chocolate to the pan. Stir the mixture until the chocolate is melted and smooth.

Whisk together the eggs and sugar in a large bowl until well combined. Add the flour and mix well. Add the chocolate to the batter and stir until the mixture is just combined. Pour the batter into the prepared pan.

Bake for 15 minutes, then lower the oven to 300F and bake for an additional 8 minutes. Remove the cake from the oven and allow it to cool completely in the pan. Unmold and serve. This cake may be tightly wrapped and frozen for up to a month.


I just cracked one off ;D ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: leonp1981 on November 19, 2008, 04:47:28 PM

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2165/2514508198_cedce626aa.jpg?v=0)
Give this a go my friend.

Its VERY simple and the BEST!

Charlie's Afternoon Chocolate Cake
 Payard's Chocolate Epiphany

10 tbsp (150g) unsalted butter
8 oz (250g) 60% chocolate, chopped
2 large eggs
2/3 cup (125g) granulated sugar
3/4 cup (75g) all purpose flour
9 inch round cake pan or springform pan

Place a rack in the center of the oven and preheat the oven to 350F. Spray the sides and bottom of a 9in round cake pan with cooking spray. Dust it with flour, shaking off the excess, and set aside.

Bring the butter to a boil in a medium saucepan over medium-high heat. Stir a couple of times to prevent it from burning. Remove from the heat and add the chocolate to the pan. Stir the mixture until the chocolate is melted and smooth.

Whisk together the eggs and sugar in a large bowl until well combined. Add the flour and mix well. Add the chocolate to the batter and stir until the mixture is just combined. Pour the batter into the prepared pan.

Bake for 15 minutes, then lower the oven to 300F and bake for an additional 8 minutes. Remove the cake from the oven and allow it to cool completely in the pan. Unmold and serve. This cake may be tightly wrapped and frozen for up to a month.


I might give that a go over the weekend.  My gf likes baking stuff so I might get her to do it!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 04:57:22 PM
I might give that a go over the weekend.  My gf likes baking stuff so I might get her to do it!
The Recipe is from Payard.  I think you will Enjoy it greatly.

(http://images.citysearch.net/profile/07/f8/46628213p1.jpg)
(http://eater.com/2006_08_intent.jpg)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 05:06:04 PM
Payard`s is really unique.


(http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/2362017445_e04d9814fc.jpg?v=0)


(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2319/2467142785_5771411b8b.jpg?v=0)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/2467970352_969aeca917.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: wavelength on November 19, 2008, 05:08:48 PM
:o :o :o
that looks delicious
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 05:10:49 PM
Payard`s is really unique.


(http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/2362017445_e04d9814fc.jpg?v=0)


(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2319/2467142785_5771411b8b.jpg?v=0)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/2467970352_969aeca917.jpg?v=0)

Hi Will Hunting.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: leonp1981 on November 19, 2008, 05:12:37 PM
I can't say I'm a big fan of posh restaurants, mainly cos I'm just too tight with my money!  It's like £25-30 ($50-60?) in some places for about 10cmx10cm of food.  I don't really care how well it's been cooked, and I'm sure it's fantastic, but I want to be full when I leave, not have to grab a chinese on the way home!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 05:19:06 PM
I can't say I'm a big fan of posh restaurants, mainly cos I'm just too tight with my money!  It's like £25-30 ($50-60?) in some places for about 10cmx10cm of food.  I don't really care how well it's been cooked, and I'm sure it's fantastic, but I want to be full when I leave, not have to grab a chinese on the way home!

The good thing is with this recipe, you don`t have to bother with the exorbitant cost and can make it yourself with ease.

This is the EXACT recipe he uses.  Can`t get much simpler than that.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: leonp1981 on November 19, 2008, 05:23:04 PM
The good thing is with this recipe, you don`t have to bother with the exorbitant cost and can make it yourself with ease.

This is the EXACT recipe he uses.  Can`t get much simpler than that.

Fair enough, I'll give it a go.

The proof will be in the pudding!  haha.... :P   ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 06:43:00 PM
I can't say I'm a big fan of posh restaurants, mainly cos I'm just too tight with my money!  It's like £25-30 ($50-60?) in some places for about 10cmx10cm of food.  I don't really care how well it's been cooked, and I'm sure it's fantastic, but I want to be full when I leave, not have to grab a chinese on the way home!

i concur
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: jason armstrong on November 19, 2008, 06:46:09 PM
I see getbigs biggest loser and whipping stick is back again!
Perfect timing too as we have let up on squadfaggott and goodbum.....where's leafy fag?

Time to go down memory lane.
Let's recap.
adam Richard Abeles a devout jew is a poor little wimpy gutless liar  fagggott coward that uses the internet to attack people and try to build his pea size ego.

he was born with a small dick small pea ape sized brain of almost retarded IQ below 100. Google stock rises when this fagggott posts..the search engine goes nuts cut paste cut paste...

He's poor no job no family almost 30 years old ...just a terrible miserable person...sad....a very common average person in every facet of the word...just got left at the back of the line when everything was being handed out..looks muscle genetics and intellegence he ranks in the retarded range and has mental illness he is on medications for and he has abused steroids in the past...


look at this sad sack how could you NOT feel sorry for this poor soul?

good gosh...
 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: jason armstrong on November 19, 2008, 06:52:13 PM
I mean I tear up at the fact that ths penniless bum is living off welfare and the state...at least get a job adam or go to school...or give your citizenship up to a mexican at least he'll work and take your sorry broke ass back to jewish germany your homeland ...
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: jason armstrong on November 19, 2008, 07:04:50 PM
2nd law of Thermodynamics.
Simple, Burn 1000 calories of Fat, 1000 Calories of Protein and 1000 calories of Carbohydrates and measure the heat. You can also burn anything to 1000 calories of heat given off, stone, wood, steel and so on.

A calorie will ALWAYS be a calorie.  A macro nutrient is not a macro nutrient and I think you may be getting that confused.

Your unfounded uttering expressions or opinions derogatory to my honour are entirely built on pillars of salt and sand. Your false characterization is in no way material to me, as the calumny at hand is meaningless.  You are proving yourself to be nothing more than but a deranged, deaf and speechless parrot squawking listlessly to yourself as nobody takes any note of a queer bird who sings false notes in order to serenade appeasement in hopes of rectifying its own handicaps and shortcomings.


Continue to pull your feathers out. It is what you do best.


I wholeheartedly accept the honor and distinction of the thrice accolades being bestowed ever so woo fully.  Flattered I am and gracious in accepting what the majority have put forth as an entirely unfeigned characterization of my personal commendation.

I will make all of you proud and know that any gift I have to give shall be given genial and urbanely.


Again, I am flattered with your graciousness and respect.  Know also that it is equally reciprocated.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: jason armstrong on November 19, 2008, 07:06:06 PM
Looks like you're gearing up for another big run of your bullshit hate and anti-bodybuilding propoganda. Adam, if you're still under 170 pounds at your height, nothing's gonna have changed.  Nobody's gonna give a shit, no matter how lean, or how unconventional your methods.  End of story.   

I'm guessing that once you do achieve the most awe-inspiring, functional and universally-appreciable physiques on the planet, that you will stop saying negative things about people on the internet on a perpetual basis.  Your behavior is never seen among the truly successful. 

I wanna ask you, Adam...what price would be too much to pay for that accomplishment?  Of having built the most admired physique on the planet?  Living to 70 instead of 90 or 100?  "Risk" of incarceration?  People suspecting that you achieved that physique the "easy," or according to them, "immoral" way?  What if steroids or diet/training techniques that you do not currently employ were actually the "only" way to achieve what you are ultimately wanting to achieve?  Would you be willing to do "what it takes" then, without the ability to claim any of the methods involved as being of your own unique conception?  Would having the best physique on the planet be enough to make you feel special or appreciated?  Or could it be that you don't truly believe you have the genetics to create the true physique of your dreams, and that you feel you'll need to produce your best presentation whose shortcomings will be excused because of it's being "pretty good, considering?"  For example, "considering" that you didn't really even try.  "Considering" that you ate whatever you wanted to.  "Considering" that you did no cardio.  "Considering" that you didn't even eat protein, much less take steroids.  "Considering" that you don't even care about bodybuilding anyway.

Could this be your motivation here?  Lately you've tried to explain that you are only motivated to "help" because of your "care" for these people.  I want you to ask yourself how "helping" these people could ever be considered enabling them to do something that they, by definition, needed you to be able to achieve, when you will not have indicated that you needed THEM for any part of your existence, other than the praise they stand to offer you, on account of what would then be perceived by them as your superiority to them. You are only seeking to "help" yourself.  No one wants to achieve anything they don't suspect they could have ultimately figured out on their own, regardless of how much your "help" stands to improve the quality of their lives.  They must be able to assume themselves in some way responsible for their own success. 

Show some humility.  Show some vulnerability.  Show that you're fallible.  Admit mistakes.  Acknowledge defeat.  Where's the deadlift video?  Just say that you thought you could do it but couldn't.  We'll understand.  Your having approximated your abilities incorrectly does not mean that you are a failure.  But we're going to assume that until you just say you were wrong on issues such as this one, that you yourself do innately believe yourself to be a failure and have an very self-limiting inability to consciously face that you may have been prone to error.  It shows a blatant inability to be true to YOURSELF and for that reason no one is able to trust your competency.  This is universal law.  Hitler had this same inability.  In the end, he killed himself rather than face that he may have been wrong in some of his fundamental-most assumptions, and in denial of this, he waged war with the world until the bitter end, took many innocent lives, and hurt many of the survivors in unspeakable ways in the process.  The world was vulnerable to this at the time because it hadn't seen someone appear so sure of himself to that extent and be wrong before.  We now know that insanity has no boundaries and your ego, like Hitler's, knows no boundaries.  I believe that you would destroy us all before admitting that you were anything but the most superior individual on the planet.  Look how you left Tweeter hanging.  When you're wrong, you just disappear until you think we've forgotten.  Thank God most of us have the sense enough not to listen to you.  You are a hateful, selfish, jealous person and you are a festering sore on the sport of bodybuilding. 

Until you've learned better how to "play the game," Adam, just go away.  Please.  You are not concerned for anyone's health, or the betterment of society.  You attack people here because they make you feel inferior, and your posts here simply reinforce the legitimacy of the notion that you indeed are.  Recognize that nothing truly great has ever been achieved in strict compliance with the stated moral values of a society, but rather by guidance of the much more trustworthy and heartfelt moral compass held personally by the greats having achieved these feats worthy of mention and demanding of our most genuine appreciation. 

Meldown, hope this helps, I'm just saying, etc.  I just hope you'll consider some of this and STFU until you've got something positive to say.   
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 07:18:36 PM
Looks like you're gearing up for another big run of your bullshit hate and anti-bodybuilding propoganda. Adam, if you're still under 170 pounds at your height, nothing's gonna have changed.  Nobody's gonna give a shit, no matter how lean, or how unconventional your methods.  End of story.   

I'm guessing that once you do achieve the most awe-inspiring, functional and universally-appreciable physiques on the planet, that you will stop saying negative things about people on the internet on a perpetual basis.  Your behavior is never seen among the truly successful. 

I wanna ask you, Adam...what price would be too much to pay for that accomplishment?  Of having built the most admired physique on the planet?  Living to 70 instead of 90 or 100?  "Risk" of incarceration?  People suspecting that you achieved that physique the "easy," or according to them, "immoral" way?  What if steroids or diet/training techniques that you do not currently employ were actually the "only" way to achieve what you are ultimately wanting to achieve?  Would you be willing to do "what it takes" then, without the ability to claim any of the methods involved as being of your own unique conception?  Would having the best physique on the planet be enough to make you feel special or appreciated?  Or could it be that you don't truly believe you have the genetics to create the true physique of your dreams, and that you feel you'll need to produce your best presentation whose shortcomings will be excused because of it's being "pretty good, considering?"  For example, "considering" that you didn't really even try.  "Considering" that you ate whatever you wanted to.  "Considering" that you did no cardio.  "Considering" that you didn't even eat protein, much less take steroids.  "Considering" that you don't even care about bodybuilding anyway.

Could this be your motivation here?  Lately you've tried to explain that you are only motivated to "help" because of your "care" for these people.  I want you to ask yourself how "helping" these people could ever be considered enabling them to do something that they, by definition, needed you to be able to achieve, when you will not have indicated that you needed THEM for any part of your existence, other than the praise they stand to offer you, on account of what would then be perceived by them as your superiority to them. You are only seeking to "help" yourself.  No one wants to achieve anything they don't suspect they could have ultimately figured out on their own, regardless of how much your "help" stands to improve the quality of their lives.  They must be able to assume themselves in some way responsible for their own success. 

Show some humility.  Show some vulnerability.  Show that you're fallible.  Admit mistakes.  Acknowledge defeat.  Where's the deadlift video?  Just say that you thought you could do it but couldn't.  We'll understand.  Your having approximated your abilities incorrectly does not mean that you are a failure.  But we're going to assume that until you just say you were wrong on issues such as this one, that you yourself do innately believe yourself to be a failure and have an very self-limiting inability to consciously face that you may have been prone to error.  It shows a blatant inability to be true to YOURSELF and for that reason no one is able to trust your competency.  This is universal law.  Hitler had this same inability.  In the end, he killed himself rather than face that he may have been wrong in some of his fundamental-most assumptions, and in denial of this, he waged war with the world until the bitter end, took many innocent lives, and hurt many of the survivors in unspeakable ways in the process.  The world was vulnerable to this at the time because it hadn't seen someone appear so sure of himself to that extent and be wrong before.  We now know that insanity has no boundaries and your ego, like Hitler's, knows no boundaries.  I believe that you would destroy us all before admitting that you were anything but the most superior individual on the planet.  Look how you left Tweeter hanging.  When you're wrong, you just disappear until you think we've forgotten.  Thank God most of us have the sense enough not to listen to you.  You are a hateful, selfish, jealous person and you are a festering sore on the sport of bodybuilding. 

Until you've learned better how to "play the game," Adam, just go away.  Please.  You are not concerned for anyone's health, or the betterment of society.  You attack people here because they make you feel inferior, and your posts here simply reinforce the legitimacy of the notion that you indeed are.  Recognize that nothing truly great has ever been achieved in strict compliance with the stated moral values of a society, but rather by guidance of the much more trustworthy and heartfelt moral compass held personally by the greats having achieved these feats worthy of mention and demanding of our most genuine appreciation. 

Meldown, hope this helps, I'm just saying, etc.  I just hope you'll consider some of this and STFU until you've got something positive to say.   


Continue, Jason.  You are conducting one of the greatest OWNINGS in the history of getbig...and there have been many worthy of note. 

Please commence with your barrage. 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Harry Spotter on November 19, 2008, 07:34:53 PM
What's the point of this again?  You can post all of the pics you want - it won't change a damn thing in the court of getbig opinion.

Pipe down you obstreperous twerp.

Your oppinion means nothing here.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 19, 2008, 07:44:54 PM
jason armstrong = mcfarland already unleashed this beatdown on adonis once.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: TechnoViking on November 19, 2008, 07:47:26 PM
sweet, my dad is an electrical engineer
I was thinking about switching to computer science and getting a masters in it actually
Business is as boring as shit  :-\
I assume you make a very good living off your degree  ;D


Lets just say you could fit a 54 thousand dollar trailer in his kitchen...
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 19, 2008, 07:48:07 PM
Looks like you're gearing up for another big run of your bullshit hate and anti-bodybuilding propoganda. Adam, if you're still under 170 pounds at your height, nothing's gonna have changed.  Nobody's gonna give a shit, no matter how lean, or how unconventional your methods.  End of story.   

I'm guessing that once you do achieve the most awe-inspiring, functional and universally-appreciable physiques on the planet, that you will stop saying negative things about people on the internet on a perpetual basis.  Your behavior is never seen among the truly successful. 

I wanna ask you, Adam...what price would be too much to pay for that accomplishment?  Of having built the most admired physique on the planet?  Living to 70 instead of 90 or 100?  "Risk" of incarceration?  People suspecting that you achieved that physique the "easy," or according to them, "immoral" way?  What if steroids or diet/training techniques that you do not currently employ were actually the "only" way to achieve what you are ultimately wanting to achieve?  Would you be willing to do "what it takes" then, without the ability to claim any of the methods involved as being of your own unique conception?  Would having the best physique on the planet be enough to make you feel special or appreciated?  Or could it be that you don't truly believe you have the genetics to create the true physique of your dreams, and that you feel you'll need to produce your best presentation whose shortcomings will be excused because of it's being "pretty good, considering?"  For example, "considering" that you didn't really even try.  "Considering" that you ate whatever you wanted to.  "Considering" that you did no cardio.  "Considering" that you didn't even eat protein, much less take steroids.  "Considering" that you don't even care about bodybuilding anyway.

Could this be your motivation here?  Lately you've tried to explain that you are only motivated to "help" because of your "care" for these people.  I want you to ask yourself how "helping" these people could ever be considered enabling them to do something that they, by definition, needed you to be able to achieve, when you will not have indicated that you needed THEM for any part of your existence, other than the praise they stand to offer you, on account of what would then be perceived by them as your superiority to them. You are only seeking to "help" yourself.  No one wants to achieve anything they don't suspect they could have ultimately figured out on their own, regardless of how much your "help" stands to improve the quality of their lives.  They must be able to assume themselves in some way responsible for their own success. 

Show some humility.  Show some vulnerability.  Show that you're fallible.  Admit mistakes.  Acknowledge defeat.  Where's the deadlift video? Just say that you thought you could do it but couldn't.  We'll understand.  Your having approximated your abilities incorrectly does not mean that you are a failure.  But we're going to assume that until you just say you were wrong on issues such as this one, that you yourself do innately believe yourself to be a failure and have an very self-limiting inability to consciously face that you may have been prone to error.  It shows a blatant inability to be true to YOURSELF and for that reason no one is able to trust your competency.  This is universal law.  Hitler had this same inability.  In the end, he killed himself rather than face that he may have been wrong in some of his fundamental-most assumptions, and in denial of this, he waged war with the world until the bitter end, took many innocent lives, and hurt many of the survivors in unspeakable ways in the process.  The world was vulnerable to this at the time because it hadn't seen someone appear so sure of himself to that extent and be wrong before.  We now know that insanity has no boundaries and your ego, like Hitler's, knows no boundaries.  I believe that you would destroy us all before admitting that you were anything but the most superior individual on the planet.  Look how you left Tweeter hanging.  When you're wrong, you just disappear until you think we've forgotten.  Thank God most of us have the sense enough not to listen to you.  You are a hateful, selfish, jealous person and you are a festering sore on the sport of bodybuilding. 

Until you've learned better how to "play the game," Adam, just go away.  Please.  You are not concerned for anyone's health, or the betterment of society.  You attack people here because they make you feel inferior, and your posts here simply reinforce the legitimacy of the notion that you indeed are.  Recognize that nothing truly great has ever been achieved in strict compliance with the stated moral values of a society, but rather by guidance of the much more trustworthy and heartfelt moral compass held personally by the greats having achieved these feats worthy of mention and demanding of our most genuine appreciation. 

Meldown, hope this helps, I'm just saying, etc.  I just hope you'll consider some of this and STFU until you've got something positive to say.   


holy fucking ownage.

lmao!

good stuff.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 07:54:46 PM
Pipe down you obstreperous twerp.

Your oppinion means nothing here.

It means just as much as yours, so screw off.

Quote
jason armstrong = mcfarland already unleashed this beatdown on adonis once.

So what's the story behind this?  I'm not sure if I was around when this transpired.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on November 19, 2008, 07:57:10 PM
post pix of your wife alex!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 19, 2008, 07:59:07 PM

So what's the story behind this?  I'm not sure if I was around when this transpired.

well, as fucked up as McFarland is, he has a pretty low tolerance for bullshitters, hence his going up to deangelis to talk about beefyheavyweight, etc.  He's possibly the last heterosexual true fan of bodybuilding, so whenever someone like Adonis shows up and says shit like eat ice cream to get ripped, McFarland got pissed.  So after a few months of reading this, McFarland just went off.  i'll see if i can dig up the post, it was similar to jason's, but more mcfarlandesque.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 19, 2008, 08:02:37 PM
nevermind, jason's post IS McFarland's.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: BroadStreetBruiser on November 19, 2008, 08:02:40 PM
Is that AXA wrestling against an obese Juggalo? ROFLOLOL
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:02:55 PM
well, as fucked up as McFarland is, he has a pretty low tolerance for bullshitters, hence his going up to deangelis to talk about beefyheavyweight, etc.  He's possibly the last heterosexual true fan of bodybuilding, so whenever someone like Adonis shows up and says shit like eat ice cream to get ripped, McFarland got pissed.  So after a few months of reading this, McFarland just went off.  i'll see if i can dig up the post, it was similar to jason's, but more mcfarlandesque.

McFarland is a good dude; I trained with him for a very short while when I was living out in LA.  The guy just loves bodybuilding...he lives and breathes this game.  I would MUCH rather have a guy like Jeff around than TA.  Jeff has put his money where his mouth is and actually competed in a bodybuilding contest.

TA is an absolute joke.  I don't think anyone other than mental gnats of his like mind take him seriously.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 19, 2008, 08:05:20 PM
McFarland is a good dude; I trained with him for a very short while when I was living out in LA.  The guy just loves bodybuilding...he lives and breathes this game.  I would MUCH rather have a guy like Jeff around than TA.  Jeff has put his money where his mouth is and actually competed in a bodybuilding contest.

TA is an absolute joke.  I don't think anyone other than mental gnats of his like mind take him seriously.

he's loonier than two nutsacks, but when it comes to bodybuilding, i can say he's done it all.  i'm sure at some point in his life, he's tried some version of the Adonis principles, but he went back to the chicken and rice eventually.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 19, 2008, 08:09:45 PM
Comp Sc./Elec. Engineering

my old man's an electrical engineer.
as for computer science, he still calls me when he needs to open a pdf file.

AXA penischaotic, if you're a model, then how come in your mr. getbig photos you're always staring at the floor, as well as in your avesher love meet-up?  (credit to onlyme for pointing this out)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: BroadStreetBruiser on November 19, 2008, 08:10:38 PM
my old man's an electrical engineer.
as for computer science, he still calls me when he needs to open a pdf file.

AXA penischaotic, if you're a model, then how come in your mr. getbig photos you're always staring at the floor, as well as in your avesher love meet-up?  (credit to onlyme for pointing this out)

severe mental retardation coupled w/ scoliosis
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 19, 2008, 08:11:54 PM
severe mental retardation coupled w/ scoliosis

so, he's half Persian?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 08:12:35 PM
Good job Jason, at this very moment Adam is copy and pasting at an unprecedented rate.  >:( ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 08:13:15 PM
my old man's an electrical engineer.
as for computer science, he still calls me when he needs to open a pdf file.

AXA penischaotic, if you're a model, then how come in your mr. getbig photos you're always staring at the floor, as well as in your avesher love meet-up?  (credit to onlyme for pointing this out)
bcause of shadows that get created when you look straight into the camera and the lights that screw up the lines
maybe I should have just blanked myself like the other 60% of people
I have posted clear face pictures on here
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 19, 2008, 08:15:17 PM
bcause of shadows that get created when you look straight into the camera and the lights that screw up the lines
maybe I should have just blanked myself like the other 60% of people
I have posted clear face pictures on here

(http://chronicle.augusta.com/images/headlines/080798/meltdown_map.jpg)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: ASJChaotic on November 19, 2008, 08:16:05 PM
(http://chronicle.augusta.com/images/headlines/080798/meltdown_map.jpg)

 ???  :D
Title: Re: My Prediction.........................MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 19, 2008, 08:18:25 PM
Of course.  None of you are in shape at all. 


Hahahaha I have more muscle in my delts that you have in your whole body little buddy.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: TechnoViking on November 19, 2008, 08:19:47 PM
well, as fucked up as McFarland is, he has a pretty low tolerance for bullshitters, hence his going up to deangelis to talk about beefyheavyweight, etc.  He's possibly the last heterosexual true fan of bodybuilding, so whenever someone like Adonis shows up and says shit like eat ice cream to get ripped, McFarland got pissed.  So after a few months of reading this, McFarland just went off.  i'll see if i can dig up the post, it was similar to jason's, but more mcfarlandesque.


More then 10 people believe that McFarland is in fact Beefy...And GH15 for that matter...

Seroquel is a hell of a drug ;)
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:21:17 PM
More then 10 people believe that McFarland is in fact Beefy...And GH15 for that matter...

Seroquel is a hell of a drug ;)

McFarland knows A LOT of shit about bodybuilding. 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:23:46 PM
Good job Jason, at this very moment Adam is copy and pasting at an unprecedented rate.  >:( ;D

Can you believe he actually thinks anyone cares to read that shit?  He attempts to use other people's work as a way to legitimize his "theories." 

How many times do you think this guy has been OWNED on message boards by large hordes of people?  He's been gangbanged more than a few times, I'm guessing.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 08:24:59 PM
post pix of your wife alex!

Nah... you know the drill... then it'll get personal and I'll have to out the perpetrators like last time... and then who will I use as my Derek Anthony scapegoat...
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:26:48 PM
More then 10 people believe that McFarland is in fact Beefy...And GH15 for that matter...

Seroquel is a hell of a drug ;)

I don't think Jeff is beefy.  Jeff probably knows more inside stuff than anyone on this forum - and it's not his style to make bodybuilding or other bodybuilders look bad out of spite.  Jeff is a positive force in the world of bodybuilding.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Mobil on November 19, 2008, 08:29:30 PM
hey alex23, is it true you were once or are a writer for the howard stern show?? someone said that i while back...
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:30:57 PM
Your unfounded uttering expressions or opinions derogatory to my honour are entirely built on pillars of salt and sand. Your false characterization is in no way material to me, as the calumny at hand is meaningless.  You are proving yourself to be nothing more than but a deranged, deaf and speechless parrot squawking listlessly to yourself as nobody takes any note of a queer bird who sings false notes in order to serenade appeasement in hopes of rectifying its own handicaps and shortcomings.


Continue to pull your feathers out. It is what you do best.


I wholeheartedly accept the honor and distinction of the thrice accolades being bestowed ever so woo fully.  Flattered I am and gracious in accepting what the majority have put forth as an entirely unfeigned characterization of my personal commendation.

I will make all of you proud and know that any gift I have to give shall be given genial and urbanely.


Again, I am flattered with your graciousness and respect.  Know also that it is equally reciprocated.

Plagiarism.

I wrote that and now you are claiming it as your own.

Pathetic.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:32:07 PM
jason armstrong = mcfarland already unleashed this beatdown on adonis once.
I must have missed it.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Alex23 on November 19, 2008, 08:32:25 PM
Nah... you know the drill... then it'll get personal and I'll have to out the perpetrators like last time... and then who will I use as my Derek Anthony scapegoat...

Wrong Stern ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: TechnoViking on November 19, 2008, 08:34:17 PM
I don't think Jeff is beefy.  Jeff probably knows more inside stuff than anyone on this forum - and it's not his style to make bodybuilding or other bodybuilders look bad out of spite.  Jeff is a positive force in the world of bodybuilding.

i like Jeff and that may be true...However Bi/polar and other types of mental illness can come out in many diff/ways...
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: TechnoViking on November 19, 2008, 08:36:52 PM
my old man's an electrical engineer.
as for computer science, he still calls me when he needs to open a pdf file.

AXA penischaotic, if you're a model, then how come in your mr. getbig photos you're always staring at the floor, as well as in your avesher love meet-up?  (credit to onlyme for pointing this out)

Does your old man look at the floor when ever your around? Can he get the thought out of his head that you really do play the skin flute?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:38:15 PM
I must have missed it.

No surprise there.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:41:45 PM
No surprise there.
Jeff worships Jesus these days.  He is a nutcase.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Relentless on November 19, 2008, 08:42:19 PM
Jeff worships Jesus these days.  He is a nutcase.

You're kidding?  I don't think Jeff has become "born again" recently, has he?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: TechnoViking on November 19, 2008, 08:44:21 PM
Jeff worships Jesus these days.  He is a nutcase.

If he only knew that Jesus was a mushroom that the 3rd reich had full knowledge of
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: The True Adonis on November 19, 2008, 08:49:00 PM
You're kidding?  I don't think Jeff has become "born again" recently, has he?
Ask him.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: onlyme on November 19, 2008, 08:50:58 PM
Alex would you like compare faces?
cuz I'd be glad to do that
since I have had modeling contracts and you? .......... ::)

Okay show us an ad where you are modeling or a runway shot.  Unless you modeled for a shitty shower company you are full of shit again. 
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: TacoBell on November 19, 2008, 08:53:02 PM
Okay show us an ad where you are modeling or a runway shot.  Unless you modeled for a shitty shower company you are full of shit again. 

Perhaps you haven't seen the most recent issue of Greasy Arab Quarterly?
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: PJim on November 19, 2008, 08:53:55 PM
If he only knew that Jesus was a mushroom that the 3rd reich had full knowledge of

I'm waiting for the news to break that Muhammed was in fact a swordfish.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: onlyme on November 19, 2008, 08:59:39 PM
Looks like you're gearing up for another big run of your bullshit hate and anti-bodybuilding propoganda. Adam, if you're still under 170 pounds at your height, nothing's gonna have changed.  Nobody's gonna give a shit, no matter how lean, or how unconventional your methods.  End of story.   

I'm guessing that once you do achieve the most awe-inspiring, functional and universally-appreciable physiques on the planet, that you will stop saying negative things about people on the internet on a perpetual basis.  Your behavior is never seen among the truly successful. 

I wanna ask you, Adam...what price would be too much to pay for that accomplishment?  Of having built the most admired physique on the planet?  Living to 70 instead of 90 or 100?  "Risk" of incarceration?  People suspecting that you achieved that physique the "easy," or according to them, "immoral" way?  What if steroids or diet/training techniques that you do not currently employ were actually the "only" way to achieve what you are ultimately wanting to achieve?  Would you be willing to do "what it takes" then, without the ability to claim any of the methods involved as being of your own unique conception?  Would having the best physique on the planet be enough to make you feel special or appreciated?  Or could it be that you don't truly believe you have the genetics to create the true physique of your dreams, and that you feel you'll need to produce your best presentation whose shortcomings will be excused because of it's being "pretty good, considering?"  For example, "considering" that you didn't really even try.  "Considering" that you ate whatever you wanted to.  "Considering" that you did no cardio.  "Considering" that you didn't even eat protein, much less take steroids.  "Considering" that you don't even care about bodybuilding anyway.

Could this be your motivation here?  Lately you've tried to explain that you are only motivated to "help" because of your "care" for these people.  I want you to ask yourself how "helping" these people could ever be considered enabling them to do something that they, by definition, needed you to be able to achieve, when you will not have indicated that you needed THEM for any part of your existence, other than the praise they stand to offer you, on account of what would then be perceived by them as your superiority to them. You are only seeking to "help" yourself.  No one wants to achieve anything they don't suspect they could have ultimately figured out on their own, regardless of how much your "help" stands to improve the quality of their lives.  They must be able to assume themselves in some way responsible for their own success. 

Show some humility.  Show some vulnerability.  Show that you're fallible.  Admit mistakes.  Acknowledge defeat.  Where's the deadlift video?  Just say that you thought you could do it but couldn't.  We'll understand.  Your having approximated your abilities incorrectly does not mean that you are a failure.  But we're going to assume that until you just say you were wrong on issues such as this one, that you yourself do innately believe yourself to be a failure and have an very self-limiting inability to consciously face that you may have been prone to error.  It shows a blatant inability to be true to YOURSELF and for that reason no one is able to trust your competency.  This is universal law.  Hitler had this same inability.  In the end, he killed himself rather than face that he may have been wrong in some of his fundamental-most assumptions, and in denial of this, he waged war with the world until the bitter end, took many innocent lives, and hurt many of the survivors in unspeakable ways in the process.  The world was vulnerable to this at the time because it hadn't seen someone appear so sure of himself to that extent and be wrong before.  We now know that insanity has no boundaries and your ego, like Hitler's, knows no boundaries.  I believe that you would destroy us all before admitting that you were anything but the most superior individual on the planet.  Look how you left Tweeter hanging.  When you're wrong, you just disappear until you think we've forgotten.  Thank God most of us have the sense enough not to listen to you.  You are a hateful, selfish, jealous person and you are a festering sore on the sport of bodybuilding. 

Until you've learned better how to "play the game," Adam, just go away.  Please.  You are not concerned for anyone's health, or the betterment of society.  You attack people here because they make you feel inferior, and your posts here simply reinforce the legitimacy of the notion that you indeed are.  Recognize that nothing truly great has ever been achieved in strict compliance with the stated moral values of a society, but rather by guidance of the much more trustworthy and heartfelt moral compass held personally by the greats having achieved these feats worthy of mention and demanding of our most genuine appreciation. 

Meldown, hope this helps, I'm just saying, etc.  I just hope you'll consider some of this and STFU until you've got something positive to say.   


Holy shit that was easily a 10-8 round for Jason. Apenis is already cut above both eyes.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 20, 2008, 12:36:55 AM
heres the lovely view from my upper east side downtown pointing to the alley penthouse

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/avesher/things003.jpg)

 :o 8)

go built a snowman in the shape of AXA

it shouldn't take you long  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: no one on November 20, 2008, 01:30:40 AM
Perhaps you haven't seen the most recent issue of Greasy Arab Quarterly?

lol.
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: WillGrant on November 20, 2008, 01:48:16 AM
:o 8)

go built a snowman in the shape of AXA

it shouldn't take you long  ;D
That lamppost/power pole is close but has him on width  ;D
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: Fatpanda on November 20, 2008, 01:58:19 AM
That lamppost/power pole is close but has him on width  ;D

hahaha i agree
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: d0nny2600 on November 20, 2008, 02:07:26 AM
Someone photoshop stickmans head onto a lamp post!
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: EL Mariachi on November 20, 2008, 12:17:00 PM
classic thread
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: CAPTAIN INSANO on January 31, 2010, 11:28:53 AM
hahahhaah wahtever happened ot ASJFag  :-X  :-X
Title: Re: My Prediction...MemberX will....
Post by: JimmyJam1974 on January 31, 2010, 11:35:46 AM
hahahhaah wahtever happened ot ASJFag  :-X  :-X
HELLO AXA