Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[pumpster]

Preist has Ronnie covered in triceps and forearms , Ronnie can't hang with Lee in this area

Priest's comparable only because of the forearms.

[Hulkster]

Add to that Ronnie's huge glutes and lack of calves ruins these two mandatories from a symmetrty perspective, and Dorian wins the back double biceps - and the biceps are not very important here, since most of their mass is only visible from the front.

1. the judges have NEVER taken away points for Ronnie's glutes. they have always impressed the (probably gay) judges.

2. just because dorian's weak biceps disappear from the back does not mean that they are unimportant in the rear double bi. It just means dorian had crappy biceps, nothing more.


biceps are just as important from the back as they are the front.

[nicorulez]

  Here's where you're mistaken and get owned. Ronnie does have a better shoulder-to-waist ration than Dorian, but how would this affect the judging? Only when they're both standing relzed from the front. In all other ways, Dorian actually has better taper than Ronnie. Start the mandatories, and Dorian has a better taper in the abs-and-thigh, the front lat spread, the side triceps and the side chest - because there is such as thing as bad taper from the sides: it's called gut distension.

  In the relaxed round, Ronnie wins in taper from the front and ties from the back, but loses from the sides. All things considered, Dorian's overrall taper is a sgood as Ronnie's: the waist of both is about the same all-around. So, Dorian has equivalent overrall taper and better taper in more mandatories. Game over.

  Ronnie does have greater muscularity than Dorian in his 2003 version, but this does not mean that he would be able to defeat Dorian. Consider that a gut distension is the worst possible symmetrical liability - because it can be seen from the sides and from the front and the midsection is the center of the body - and Ronnie has it. There goes 50% of the judging scores to Dorian. Ronnie win sin overrall muscularity, but Dorian still holds his own in the side triceps, abs-and-thighs, front lat spread and back double biceps - because, although thicker than Dorian, Ronnie's back in 2003 didn't have the separations and hardness of Dorian's and looked soft. Add to that Ronnie's huge glutes and lack of calves ruins these two mandatories from a symmetrty perspective, and Dorian wins the back double biceps - and the biceps are not very important here, since most of their mass is only visible from the front. The rear lat spread cdould go either way: equivalent lat width, but Ronnie has better taper. Dorian, conversely, has the symmetrical advantages of smller glutes.  Add to that Dorian overrall conditioning was better and made Ronnie's muscles look soft, Dorian could definitely defeat the 2003 Coleman at an unbiased contest.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Apples and oranges my friend.  Mass of Coleman vs the near-mass of Dorian with great conditioning.  I assume it would be a show where the judging panel chose the look they wanted.  If they wanted overwhelming size with excellent conditioning, they would go with Coleman.  If they want awesome (not overwhelming) size with stupendous condtioning, Doz could get the call.  Regardless, it would be one hell of a show.  Neither guy would win in a cakewalk.  It would be Ali and Frazier all over again.  Both guys were admittedly great.  Each had their obvious weaknesses, but nobody is perfect.  Ronnie has a distended GH gut and no calves.  Dorian has sub-par biceps and wide obliques with some GH gut.  Overall, though, they brought to the table the two best physiques of the last 15-20 years.  Haney had better taper and a much tighter waist, but his legs and arms were a problem. 

[suckmymuscle]

As soon as Yates' hams or traps are a "push" the whole assessment's incomplete, lacking in credibility..no mention of the size differentials in several areas..Yates doesn't even appear to have traps when compared. Same re: hams - Coleman has some of the biggest hams on record which wasn't even mentioned.

Lats, tris and abs are the only areas that Yates is competitive in, other than calves.

  Wrong. Dorian won the overrall relaxed round by displaying overrall breater muscularity than his rivals. His lats  were humoungous, but, since the judges deemed that Dorian won the symmetry round, by definition it means that his other muscles were equally developed. As far as quadriceps goes, Dorian had immense vastus lateralis, meidalis and biceps femorii. His pectoralis were not as wide as Ronnie's from the front, but had incredible thickness and striations. His trapezius and forearms were world-class, and I sincerely don't know what the f**k you're talking about when you criticize these bodyparts.

  Now, Dorian does have muscular disproportionalities, but so those any other bodybuilder, including Ronnie! But when standing relaxed, Dorian's only flaw is that his taper is not very good, from the front. That's it. That's his only liability. From the front he is very wide, although his taper takes away some of his impressivness. From the sides, he's the thickess bodybuilder ever, except perhaps Ronnie in 2003, with the difference that his stomach is flat! Overrall, he won the symmetry round because he was the thickest and one of the widest bodybuilders with very few muscular disproportionalities, and he still had great taper from most angles except from the front.

  Asor muscularity, Dorian mades his muscles the best when it counted. For instance, his pecs weren't very wide from the front, but he compesated this by having incredible thickness and striations, which, when combined with his etched serratus, thick vastus lateralis and calves, made him win the side chest. Likewise, Dorian didn't have the the biggest overrall triceps, but he made it worked when it counted, in the side triceps mandatory, by having the best lateral triceps head. From the front, he compensated his thick waist by having incredible lat flare, giving him great taper in both the abs-and-thigh and the front lat spread. Dorian won six Sandows because he was the best overrall bodybuilder, and following the tradition already established in this thread, you got owned by me yet again, Pumpster!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pobrecito]

 

[pobrecito]

Dorian's arms look smaller than Flea's here

[Hulkster]

Sucky, have you actually looked at this afternoons pics?

[pobrecito]

awesome

[Hulkster]

Dorian's arms look smaller than Flea's here

but the size of dorian's arms is totally wrong in that shot due to closeness and camera angle unless he is 2 feet taller than Labrada.

put then side by side and I guarentee you dorian's arms will not appear to be that big.

[pobrecito]

granite

[suckmymuscle]

then what did he have left?

hint: ugly, grotesque mass was not good enough to beat shawn in 1994:
look at this



equal calves.

worst relaxed EVER?


ironically, on this thread linked from matt's page, ND has posted tons of Pics, but I am not registered on bodybuildingdungeon.com to see them.

Care to post some more pics, ND? hiding some are we?

How you can argue straight faced that Dorian deserved to win after all this is just crazy.

 

  Completely stupid assessment. I personally loved Shawn in 1994, but Dorian won it flat out. Dorian did not bring his trademanrked dryness to this show, but he still had his trademarked density. Teh only thing Shawn had on Dorian in this show was midsection and back separations. Period. This was most evident from the front, where Shawn beat Dorian both in taper and abs/serratus separations. Conversely, Dorian could hold his own in taper in the front lat spread and abs-and-thighs. And he had a flat stomach and etched serratus at 262 lbs! From the back, Dorian's taper was a match for Shawn, because the lats are what creates the taper from the back, and Dorian's lats were simply too much for Shawn to handle.

  So here we have a situation where Dorian is a match for Ray in taper both from the back and the sides, but had wider and thicker pectoralis, deltoids. Shawn could hold his own with Dorian when it came to back separations, but Dorian crushed him both in lat width&thickness. Besides, Shawn had no advantage over Dorian in any muscle which can be seen from the back. None. Funny that Hulkster chooses the only pose from the only angle that Shawn beat Dorian, and decides the outcome of the contest basd on that! And it's also funny that you guys think Ronnie in 2003 should defeat Dorian based on a  30 lbs weight advantage, but think Shawn should have won in 1994 despite Dorian outweighting him by 55 lbs! Dorian won flat out. Get over it.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  

[pobrecito]

Dorian had a superior taper to Shawn in 94. Shawn's taper was always poor.

[suckmymuscle]

anyone see the irony of this statement, coming from sucky:

  That's a wide waist, not a distended midsection. Two different things. Annd funny how you only post pics showing Dorian in one pose, from one angle...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

the 2003 Ronnie is still by far good enough to take yates.

Ronnie is that much better in my opinion, 99 or 03.

Look at the pics, not the words.

  This is your problem: you look at pics and give your opinion of what you think would happen. Conversely, I give an objective assessment of how the judges would actually   evaluate the physiques. Sorry, but showin a pic from the back, where Ronnie's gut distension is not visible is a bad way to substantiate your claims.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

1. the judges have NEVER taken away points for Ronnie's glutes. they have always impressed the (probably gay) judges.

  The glutes, like the abminals and serratus, is one of the two bodyparts which should not be hypertrophied. Having large glutes is a bad thing. Striated? Good. Large? No. Bodybuilding is about enhancing the natural male form, and large glutes are unmanly. Besides, I don't even know if it's true that the judges have awarded points to Ronnie for his large glutes. Besides, even if they did, this is irrelevant, because, in a propoer bodybuilding contest, this would make him lose points. Case closed.

2. just because dorian's weak biceps disappear from the back does not mean that they are unimportant in the rear double bi. It just means dorian had crappy biceps, nothing more.

  No, it means that the biceps are irrelevant in this pose because most of their mass is only visible from the front. It doesen't matter if the biceps are the size of a golf ball or a basketball, the bottom line is that the biceps is concealed from sight, from the back, by the delts and triceps. Nothing more. Ronnie does win the front double biceps over Dorian because, since the biceps are visible here, Ronnie has an advantage here. From the back, this advantage disappears, because the biceps becomes a small dot on the top of the arms, and Dorianá advantages shine. These include: his thicker and denser back, with as many separations, his equivalent biceps femorii smaller glutes - Dorian gains symmetry points here -, etc. Dorian takes the pose. Dorian;s biceps are smaller than Ronnie's, but who cares if Ronnie can't display this advantage to effect from this angle, and that Dorian has major advantages in practically every other muscles from this angle. You and Ronnie loses.

biceps are just as important from the back as they are the front.

  Completely wrong. This is evident by the fact that, while Dorian usually lost the front double biceps, he won the back double biceps against anyone. You lose...again. (ouch! )

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[marcusinhouston]

I gotta put my two cents in...even though Dorian was a very respectable pro, the world has NEVER seen a physique the likes of Ronnie Coleman.  I've seen um both in person (many times); there is NO COMPARISON.

[pumpster]

even though Dorian was a very respectable pro, the world has NEVER seen a physique the likes of Ronnie Coleman.  I've seen um both in person (many times); there is NO COMPARISON.

The difference between good & legendary.

[forcedreps]

Mr.O 1999 Coleman Prejudging

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/1_70b5611faa08910510a92f64ebfc5209.jpg

Mr.O 1999  Coleman Posing

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/2_6f0dd532b69d5ffb714dfa6f4c198f0f.jpg

Mr.O 1993 Yates Posing

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/3_0dcea488b72a82aada25eeb0c1334be1.jpg

And here a few for the dickheads that claim Lee Haney was a B Tier Mr.O

Mr.O 1991 Haney Posing

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/4_eb434e2161a93bd7f5a1a2e744ae257f.jpg

[suckmymuscle]

 Completely stupid assessment. I personally loved Shawn in 1994, but Dorian won it flat out. Dorian did not bring his trademanrked dryness to this show, but he still had his trademarked density. Teh only thing Shawn had on Dorian in this show was midsection and back separations. Period. This was most evident from the front, where Shawn beat Dorian both in taper and abs/serratus separations. Conversely, Dorian could hold his own in taper in the front lat spread and abs-and-thighs. And he had a flat stomach and etched serratus at 262 lbs! From the back, Dorian's taper was a match for Shawn, because the lats are what creates the taper from the back, and Dorian's lats were simply too much for Shawn to handle.

  So here we have a situation where Dorian is a match for Ray in taper both from the back and the sides, but had wider and thicker pectoralis, deltoids. Shawn could hold his own with Dorian when it came to back separations, but Dorian crushed him both in lat width&thickness. Besides, Shawn had no advantage over Dorian in any muscle which can be seen from the back. None. Funny that Hulkster chooses the only pose from the only angle that Shawn beat Dorian, and decides the outcome of the contest basd on that! And it's also funny that you guys think Ronnie in 2003 should defeat Dorian based on a  30 lbs weight advantage, but think Shawn should have won in 1994 despite Dorian outweighting him by 55 lbs! Dorian won flat out. Get over it.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  

  Hulkster, make sure you read why your argument for Shawn winning, in 1994, is sophomoric.

[pobrecito]

oh my god. Ok, I am officially a believer in 99 Coleman. This is unreal.

[delta9mda]

This pic says it all-average size, definition virtually absent in key areas:

he was 305 at that GUEST POSING and i think this was at the pittsburgh championships.

[pumpster]

Mr.O 1999 Coleman Prejudging

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/1_70b5611faa08910510a92f64ebfc5209.jpg

Mr.O 1999  Coleman Posing

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/2_6f0dd532b69d5ffb714dfa6f4c198f0f.jpg

Mr.O 1993 Yates Posing

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/3_0dcea488b72a82aada25eeb0c1334be1.jpg

And here a few for the dickheads that claim Lee Haney was a B Tier Mr.O

Mr.O 1991 Haney Posing

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/4_eb434e2161a93bd7f5a1a2e744ae257f.jpg

Thanks for the great pics, even though you slept on em. Don't attack the great Sergio Oliva, a superior BB, for seeing in Haney what you refuse to. 

Those Haney pics confirm his incredible muscle quality-AND the usual overwhelming torso that dominates smallish arms & legs. Neither the arms or legs are anywhere near the superstar level. Torso's still too damn big = imbalance that is SHORT OF GREATNESS, as Sergio correctly mentioned.

[pumpster]

oh my god. Ok, I am officially a believer in 99 Coleman. This is unreal.

There you have it. After comparing these shots, the thread is over.


ND & SUCKY's only salvation's the small size of these pics!!

Yates' density there is superb. Arms are bigger, better balance. Looks very good. Unfortunately, Coleman also looks better in those shots, there is no comparison.. 

[delta9mda]

Is this the best you could manage? I don't use and never used morphed shots , that pic was scanned by me out of the magazine and it sits just like that ! I noticed that pumpster was fond of posting the one with the darker backround and I noticed the same thing about the pic of Yates doing the front double biceps at the 1994 Mr Olympia , either one of two things happened , someone fucked with the pics he posts or someone doesn't know how to scan , I would say its the latter , but enough with your nonsense , I don't use morphed pics .

pic is scanned from the jan 94 muscle and fitness, last page. it is not morphed. his arms were really that big. take it or leave it.

[pumpster]

pic is scanned from the jan 94 muscle and fitness, last page. it is not morphed. his arms were really that big. take it or leave it.

If true, he had a strange, brief moment of size that was gone in all other shots. Unfortunately, Coleman also looks better.