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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The True Adonis on October 04, 2006, 07:29:16 AM
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gh15
Getbig III
Posts: 650
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Re: FAT or RIPPED?
« Reply #312 on: Today at 10:22:10 AM » Quote
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there is no 200lb natural at 5-6% at 5'10 or less. never met one,, never seen one,,,never trained one.
adonis is basically where it stops naturally,,,maybe 10-15 more pounds if! he is in his early to mid 20s.
i have trained with few natural "freaks" that experiemnted with winstrol/anadrol/dbol tablets for short durations (i consider them natural since they didnt know a from z),,the freakiest guy i have trained with from this group was 6'1 225-230lb 10-11% with extra ordinary muscle shape and 19.75 inch arms. ofcourse he was on every pro hormone you could find on the maket and was eastern europian.
any bodybuilder at 5'10 or less that enter a gym at 200lb 6%,,,will walk around offseason at ~ 240 10-14%
anyone who tells you something else lies to your face.
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Nobody can produce one, a PRO BODYBUILDER never has seen one.
Yet they are in everybodys gym? Yet there are many fatties here claiming they meet that criteria?
Something is amiss.
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brutal honesty.
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Your likeable cause your so gay and have to contantly hammer things home to peple just to square them off in your own mind.
However I have a question that I have asked you many times but you fail to answer all the time, here goes again..... What is your diet going to be when you try and add muscle, rather than losing fat or does your super diet allow for muscle gain too?
ta ta
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Your likeable cause your so gay and have to contantly hammer things home to peple just to square them off in your own mind.
However I have a question that I have asked you many times but you fail to answer all the time, here goes again..... What is your diet going to be when you try and add muscle, rather than losing fat or does your super diet allow for muscle gain too?
ta ta
Give MEEEEEEEEE the HAmmer and I`ll NAIL EM UP!
NAil em up!
Nail em Up!
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Your likeable cause your so gay and have to contantly hammer things home to peple just to square them off in your own mind.
However I have a question that I have asked you many times but you fail to answer all the time, here goes again..... What is your diet going to be when you try and add muscle, rather than losing fat or does your super diet allow for muscle gain too?
ta ta
I brought this question up yesterday, Adonis thinks that he gained muscle with his loosing wieght, but if he DID not get FAT in the firstplace then he would of been smaller than what he is now!! Im not knocking him however, To really change your physique and add muscle to the frame you need to up the calories and enter the "Offseason Mode" there is no other way other than the darkside!!!
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brutal honesty.
brutal ass kissing
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GH is a jerkoff. the only thing he knows is steroids
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Give MEEEEEEEEE the HAmmer and I`ll NAIL EM UP!
NAil em up!
Nail em Up!
ha ha answer the diet question my old fruit please
ta ta
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I brought this question up yesterday, Adonis thinks that he gained muscle with his loosing wieght, but if he DID not get FAT in the firstplace then he would of been smaller than what he is now!! Im not knocking him however, To really change your physique and add muscle to the frame you need to up the calories and enter the "Offseason Mode" there is no other way other than the darkside!!!
Not true!
In 2005 I dieted down and only had to lose 20 lbs. I was smaller than I was this year and in 2005 I ate 300-350 grams of protein and all clean with no cheats for 4 months straight and doing cardio.
This year I lost 70 lbs,no Cardio and came in bigger.
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Your likeable cause your so gay and have to contantly hammer things home to peple just to square them off in your own mind.
However I have a question that I have asked you many times but you fail to answer all the time, here goes again..... What is your diet going to be when you try and add muscle, rather than losing fat or does your super diet allow for muscle gain too?
ta ta
It allows for muscle gain...HAven`t changed a thing.
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Let me also add that in 2004 I dieted down from my all time fattest, and was smaller then then 2005.
Each year I have been putting on about 5 lbs of muscle.
So far so good.
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It allows for muscle gain...HAven`t changed a thing.
Ok so what gains do you expect to make in the near future then and will you show them? In fact I know you will but I doubt you can gain on your legendary diet but i'm not going to slate it just yet!
What do you consider to be your maximum potential weight natural and shredded?
ta ta
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Ok so what gains do you expect to make in the near future then and will you show them? In fact I know you will but I doubt you can gain on your legendary diet but i'm not going to slate it just yet!
What do you consider to be your maximum potential weight natural and shredded?
ta ta
I have been adding 4-5 lbs of muscle pretty steadily each year so far, so everything is working out great.
I would put my max potential in the 190s and it may take years to get there, but that is about the limit for any lifetime consistently training natural.
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People are just going to have to face the fact of truth that they are FATTER than they think they are. Much Much Much fatter.
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It also depends on bone structure. But for a natural BBer with average bone structure 5'9 and under, I'll bet his statement is pretty close. Not too many can be over 200lbs natural in extreme contest shape. Talking 5% bodyfat at most.
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It also depends on bone structure. But for a natural BBer with average bone structure 5'9 and under, I'll bet his statement is pretty close. Not too many can be over 200lbs natural in extreme contest shape. Talking 5% bodyfat at most.
That it does!
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Im 6'3 254 lbs right now around 10-12% bf. If i cut down i think ill be 230-235.
Im still making gains so another 10-15 lbs naturally shouldnt be impossible if i stay consistent like i do now. So that will hopefully leave me at a hard 250 in a few years.
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Im 6'3 254 lbs right now around 10-12% bf. If i cut down i think ill be 230-235.
Im still making gains so another 10-15 lbs naturally shouldnt be impossible if i stay consistent like i do now. So that will hopefully leave me at a hard 250 in a few years.
of course you are. ::)
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of course you are. ::)
everyone are not lanky built like you
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everyone are not lanky built like you
"everyone are not lanky built"?
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Im 6'3 254 lbs right now around 10-12% bf. If i cut down i think ill be 230-235.
Im still making gains so another 10-15 lbs naturally shouldnt be impossible if i stay consistent like i do now. So that will hopefully leave me at a hard 250 in a few years.
I am sure you will be bigger than Arnold Schwarzenegger. ::)
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I am sure you will be bigger than Arnold Schwarzenegger. ::)
hahahahaha, exactly, sometimes i wonder if these clowns actually believe their own bullshit or do they just not care.
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I am sure you will be bigger than Arnold Schwarzenegger. ::)
Arnold has light bonestructure . Just like Flex Wheeler he looked heavier than he was because of light bonestructure.
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Arnold has light bonestructure . Just like Flex Wheeler he looked heavier than he was because of light bonestructure.
Bones only weigh 10 percent and less of a person.
So given a large or small bone size, you would still outweigh Arnold.
hahhahah
Face it. You are fat and just don`t realize it.
Post a pic and I will be dead honest with you.
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People are just going to have to face the fact of truth that they are FATTER than they think they are. Much Much Much fatter.
Good point. Here's something from an article I wrote a week ago that applies to what you are saying.
"Body Image As An Enemy
''But I gained fifteen pounds in three months and I didn't gain fat.''
This is something I hear often. If it's not possible to gain more than a few pounds of muscle per month (or around six pounds over a three month period) how come you see so many people claiming to have gained heaps of muscle without getting fatter?
It's most likely due to what I call the ''lean threshold.'' You see, there's a point (a certain body fat percentage) where you start to look lean (around 10% for most men). There's also a point where you start to look fat (around 18-20% for most men). Then in between you have a certain zone where you basically look the same; you aren't lean enough to look defined so you don't really have any muscle separation.
At that point, even if you gain a few pounds of fat, you won't visually see the difference. This is compounded by the fact that you're seeing yourself every day, so you might not notice the small changes in appearance. Most men won't be able to see a visual difference in muscularity between 13 and 16%. But if you're 200 pounds, going from 13 to 16% body fat can mean a six pound gain in fat!
So a guy could very well have gained six pounds of muscle, six to seven pounds of fat, and two pounds of glycogen and water over the three month period, and he'll actually believe that he gained fifteen pounds of solid muscle because he looks to be about the same body fat percentage.
Now, repeat that over a few training cycles and you have a guy who could end up with a gain of fifteen to twenty pounds in body fat! One day he'll wake up and find a fat bastard looking back at him in the mirror, then he'll need to diet down to look remotely decent!
The Illusion of "Big?"
Body fat can really be an odd thing. When someone carries a significant amount of muscle mass, adding a layer of fat can actually make him look much bigger when wearing clothes. That's because his muscle mass gives him a solid foundation, so the fat added over the muscle (up to a certain point) will make his body occupy more space while keeping a certain amount of shape, at least when wearing clothes.
Plus, as I mentioned earlier, there's a certain range of fatness where the body doesn't look visually different when it comes to definition and muscularity. When going from 13 to 16% body fat, you'll basically look to be at the same degree of fatness. In fact, some people who store body fat evenly might even look just as lean at 18% as 13%. So if someone goes from 220 pounds at 13% to 230 pounds at 16%, he'll basically have the same amount of muscle and ten pounds more fat, but he'll actually look bigger and more muscular because his degree of leanness will appear to be the same (while he occupies more space.)
So we could say if you aren't lean, adding body fat, up to a point, will make you look more muscular even if you aren't gaining muscle mass. This can make people underestimate the amount of fat they carry and put them in a situation where, over time, they can accumulate a lot of excess fat.
Something like that happened to me when I was young. At 17 years of age I was 180 pounds with a 32'' waist and around 13-14% body fat. To play football I decided to gain size and went on the ''see food diet.'' I was consuming at least 10,000 calories per day (7200 of which where from weight gainer shakes). In six months I went up to 225 pounds.
I really believed it was all muscle. I was getting stronger and looked much bigger in clothes. My mother kept telling me that I was getting fat, but I thought it was because she was trying to discourage me from training. The sad thing is that my waist ballooned up to 40 inches, but I never really noticed because at the time my mother was buying my pants. They weren't tighter (because she was buying larger ones) so I felt like I was just as lean.
Long story short, when I saw pictures of myself shirtless I went into shock. I was fat! It took me a whole year to drop back down to a size 32. The sad thing is that when I got back down to that size, I was down to 172 pounds. I actually lost eight pounds of muscle! I basically wasted 18 months of my life trying to gain muscle.
On the other end, losing body fat, at first, will make you look and feel smaller and less muscular. As I said several times, there isn't much visual difference between 13 and 16%. So the first 6-10 pounds of fat you lose won't make you look more defined. You'll look the same (definition wise) but your clothes will be looser and you'll feel smaller because your muscles will be flat from a lack of glycogen. So you'll look and feel smaller without actually looking more defined. Not very encouraging!
In the past, I stopped several diets because of that fact. I'd diet for four weeks or so, feel small and look like crap, so I'd think ''the heck with it'' and go back to my bulking habits.
Let me tell you this: a diet won't make you look good until you drop down to at least 10% body fat. That's the point where you start to actually look bigger even though you're becoming smaller (because of the fat you're losing). As you go down to 8% or so, people will actually believe that you're gaining size as your weight goes down!
Simply put, when you aren't lean, adding some fat will make you look larger and losing just a bit of fat will make you look smaller. But past a certain point (10%), you'll look larger by the day as you're losing fat. It's all an illusion. "
* That having been said; I do not agree 100% about no 5'9"-5'10" bodybuilders being able to reach 200lbs and relatively ripped naturally. I remember when I played football in high school we had a guy who played linebacker who was 190lbs on 5'10" just SCHREDDED and with full muscle bellies. Not only was he 100% natural... he didn't even train!!! Another one of my friend was a 5'6" 175lbs soccer player who was at a body fat level that could kick ass at most regional shows; he also never lifted a weight in his life and ate like shit (he was black, which surely helped in the genetics department). Now, I'm not saying that there are a lot of such phenemenons in the world, but I'm sure that there are many of them and that any one of them could reach a high level of muscular development and muscularity, beyond what is seen as attainable naturally, if they decided to train and eat properly.
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Good point. Here's something from an article I wrote a week ago that applies to what you are saying.
"Body Image As An Enemy
''But I gained fifteen pounds in three months and I didn't gain fat.''
This is something I hear often. If it's not possible to gain more than a few pounds of muscle per month (or around six pounds over a three month period) how come you see so many people claiming to have gained heaps of muscle without getting fatter?
It's most likely due to what I call the ''lean threshold.'' You see, there's a point (a certain body fat percentage) where you start to look lean (around 10% for most men). There's also a point where you start to look fat (around 18-20% for most men). Then in between you have a certain zone where you basically look the same; you aren't lean enough to look defined so you don't really have any muscle separation.
At that point, even if you gain a few pounds of fat, you won't visually see the difference. This is compounded by the fact that you're seeing yourself every day, so you might not notice the small changes in appearance. Most men won't be able to see a visual difference in muscularity between 13 and 16%. But if you're 200 pounds, going from 13 to 16% body fat can mean a six pound gain in fat!
So a guy could very well have gained six pounds of muscle, six to seven pounds of fat, and two pounds of glycogen and water over the three month period, and he'll actually believe that he gained fifteen pounds of solid muscle because he looks to be about the same body fat percentage.
Now, repeat that over a few training cycles and you have a guy who could end up with a gain of fifteen to twenty pounds in body fat! One day he'll wake up and find a fat bastard looking back at him in the mirror, then he'll need to diet down to look remotely decent!
The Illusion of "Big?"
Body fat can really be an odd thing. When someone carries a significant amount of muscle mass, adding a layer of fat can actually make him look much bigger when wearing clothes. That's because his muscle mass gives him a solid foundation, so the fat added over the muscle (up to a certain point) will make his body occupy more space while keeping a certain amount of shape, at least when wearing clothes.
Plus, as I mentioned earlier, there's a certain range of fatness where the body doesn't look visually different when it comes to definition and muscularity. When going from 13 to 16% body fat, you'll basically look to be at the same degree of fatness. In fact, some people who store body fat evenly might even look just as lean at 18% as 13%. So if someone goes from 220 pounds at 13% to 230 pounds at 16%, he'll basically have the same amount of muscle and ten pounds more fat, but he'll actually look bigger and more muscular because his degree of leanness will appear to be the same (while he occupies more space.)
So we could say if you aren't lean, adding body fat, up to a point, will make you look more muscular even if you aren't gaining muscle mass. This can make people underestimate the amount of fat they carry and put them in a situation where, over time, they can accumulate a lot of excess fat.
Something like that happened to me when I was young. At 17 years of age I was 180 pounds with a 32'' waist and around 13-14% body fat. To play football I decided to gain size and went on the ''see food diet.'' I was consuming at least 10,000 calories per day (7200 of which where from weight gainer shakes). In six months I went up to 225 pounds.
I really believed it was all muscle. I was getting stronger and looked much bigger in clothes. My mother kept telling me that I was getting fat, but I thought it was because she was trying to discourage me from training. The sad thing is that my waist ballooned up to 40 inches, but I never really noticed because at the time my mother was buying my pants. They weren't tighter (because she was buying larger ones) so I felt like I was just as lean.
Long story short, when I saw pictures of myself shirtless I went into shock. I was fat! It took me a whole year to drop back down to a size 32. The sad thing is that when I got back down to that size, I was down to 172 pounds. I actually lost eight pounds of muscle! I basically wasted 18 months of my life trying to gain muscle.
On the other end, losing body fat, at first, will make you look and feel smaller and less muscular. As I said several times, there isn't much visual difference between 13 and 16%. So the first 6-10 pounds of fat you lose won't make you look more defined. You'll look the same (definition wise) but your clothes will be looser and you'll feel smaller because your muscles will be flat from a lack of glycogen. So you'll look and feel smaller without actually looking more defined. Not very encouraging!
In the past, I stopped several diets because of that fact. I'd diet for four weeks or so, feel small and look like crap, so I'd think ''the heck with it'' and go back to my bulking habits.
Let me tell you this: a diet won't make you look good until you drop down to at least 10% body fat. That's the point where you start to actually look bigger even though you're becoming smaller (because of the fat you're losing). As you go down to 8% or so, people will actually believe that you're gaining size as your weight goes down!
Simply put, when you aren't lean, adding some fat will make you look larger and losing just a bit of fat will make you look smaller. But past a certain point (10%), you'll look larger by the day as you're losing fat. It's all an illusion. "
* That having been said; I do not agree 100% about no 5'9"-5'10" bodybuilders being able to reach 200lbs and relatively ripped naturally. I remember when I played football in high school we had a guy who played linebacker who was 190lbs on 5'10" just SCHREDDED and with full muscle bellies. Not only was he 100% natural... he didn't even train!!! Another one of my friend was a 5'6" 175lbs soccer player who was at a body fat level that could kick ass at most regional shows; he also never lifted a weight in his life and ate like shit (he was black, which surely helped in the genetics department). Now, I'm not saying that there are a lot of such phenemenons in the world, but I'm sure that there are many of them and that any one of them could reach a high level of muscular development and muscularity, beyond what is seen as attainable naturally, if they decided to train and eat properly.
CT I read your recent article and the only thing I disagree with is that you make your dietary recommendations based on the most possible muscle that a natural can gain. The fact is that a natural that has been training for a while will be lucky to gain 3-5 lbs of pure muscle in a year. This is why I don't really think a caloric surplus is necessary to maximize muscle gains. If you train hard your body will alot more energy to building muscle plain and simple. I also think that high protein is unnesecary because the body does not convert dietary protein directly into muscle. Rather all nutrients must be converted into energy first (right?). So it makes sense to consume efficient sources of energy (I'm not saying no protein, just moderate intake).
As for Adonis, I think you will be hard pressed to add 15lbs of pure muscle over your career. If you do manage that it would make a huge visual difference.
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yet 190 is so common?
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CT your article was great though...it's nice to see somebody at T-nation breaking from the bulking orthodoxy that is conventionally used to sell supplements.
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CT I read your recent article and the only thing I disagree with is that you make your dietary recommendations based on the most possible muscle that a natural can gain. The fact is that a natural that has been training for a while will be lucky to gain 3-5 lbs of pure muscle in a year. This is why I don't really think a caloric surplus is necessary to maximize muscle gains. If you train hard your body will alot more energy to building muscle plain and simple. I also think that high protein is unnesecary because the body does not convert dietary protein directly into muscle. Rather all nutrients must be converted into energy first (right?). So it makes sense to consume efficient sources of energy (I'm not saying no protein, just moderate intake).
As for Adonis, I think you will be hard pressed to add 15lbs of pure muscle over your career. If you do manage that it would make a huge visual difference.
I second what Shiftedshapes says all the way!
Also,
Where can I read more of your articles CT?
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Agreed. I was kindof hesitant to put the caloric recommendation as individual needs can be so variable. But the take home message is this: "to build muscle you need to consume enough nutrients to stimulate growth; but not so much as you start to gain too much fat".
I also state that 1.5-2.0lbs of muscle is as much as a natural trainee can expect to gain in a month (under normal circumstances). It doesn't mean that it will happen everymonth otherwise we'd gain 20lbs per year, so after 10 years of training we'd all be at least 350lbs of hard muscle :)
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I second what Shiftedshapes says all the way!
Also,
Where can I read more of your articles CT?
On T-nation.com
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CT your article was great though...it's nice to see somebody at T-nation breaking from the bulking orthodoxy that is conventionally used to sell supplements.
It did cause quite a stirr, especially in the pro-bulking crowd... most articles get 15000 - 20000 unique readers in a week; mine got over 40 000 :) Controversy pays!
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BTW, this kinda backs up Adonis' point... two of my trainees...
The first one is around 205lbs on the "before" pics and 176lbs on the "after" pics, yet looks much bigger than 176... he's around 5'9" BTW
Second one is 208lbs in the before pics and competed at 177lbs on 5'9"
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Both look great! I'd be interested to hear of their 'shredding' diet...
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It did cause quite a stirr, especially in the pro-bulking crowd... most articles get 15000 - 20000 unique readers in a week; mine got over 40 000 :) Controversy pays!
Perhaps my articles should find a home there.
I have many, many that I have written just for myself.....
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Since they are basically paying clients It wouldn't be fair to them to post for free what they are paying to get. But in both cases the approach was quite different.
Guy no.2 (Sebastien Cossette) started out at a much higher body fat level AND needed to gain muscle (especially in certain areas like chest, triceps and legs). So he basically had to eat super clean (competition-type diet) for 8 months. 4 of those months had a slight caloric surplus while the 4 others saw him gradually decrease in caloric and arbs intake. He never went too low on carbs though. We stuck to a 40/40/20 ratio most of the time (40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat).
Guy no.1 (Allen Cress) actually surprised me the most. He did a show before and while decent, he had nowhere the sharpness as he has in the "after pics" (which are from 2 1/2 weeks before his upcoming competition). He "dieted" for 12 weeks to go from the "before" to the "after". Before that we used a muscle gain approach for around 16-20 weeks. He was able to ingest a bit more calories than guy no.2 because he started out quite a bit leaner. He would cycle periods of 40/40/20 dieting with carb cycling periods (alternating between high, moderate and low carb days). For the past 4 weeks he has been using a low carbs approach for 4 days followed by 3 days of moderate carbs.
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Perhaps my articles should find a home there.
I have many, many that I have written just for myself.....
Why not! 6 years ago I was much in the same both. I submitted an article that got accepted... got some money from it... submitted a few more than were rejected... then a few were accepted and next thing I know I'm on the company payroll ;)
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Since they are basically paying clients It wouldn't be fair to them to post for free what they are paying to get. But in both cases the approach was quite different.
Guy no.2 (Sebastien Cossette) started out at a much higher body fat level AND needed to gain muscle (especially in certain areas like chest, triceps and legs). So he basically had to eat super clean (competition-type diet) for 8 months. 4 of those months had a slight caloric surplus while the 4 others saw him gradually decrease in caloric and arbs intake. He never went too low on carbs though. We stuck to a 40/40/20 ratio most of the time (40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat).
Guy no.1 (Allen Cress) actually surprised me the most. He did a show before and while decent, he had nowhere the sharpness as he has in the "after pics" (which are from 2 1/2 weeks before his upcoming competition). He "dieted" for 12 weeks to go from the "before" to the "after". Before that we used a muscle gain approach for around 16-20 weeks. He was able to ingest a bit more calories than guy no.2 because he started out quite a bit leaner. He would cycle periods of 40/40/20 dieting with carb cycling periods (alternating between high, moderate and low carb days). For the past 4 weeks he has been using a low carbs approach for 4 days followed by 3 days of moderate carbs.
Very interesting!!!!
With my approach I have very unique methods as well as determining what levels people should be eating and such.....
I will get it all together and take a look at your guys site for possibly submittal.
I am liking your site so far as it seems to want to get the truth out there.
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MAXX, no way in hell Arnold had a small bone structure. The man had a relatively wide waist and ribcage. Even in that picture after his heart surgery where his muscles are atrophied, you can see he has a larger than average frame...not huge but larger than average. Much different than flex wheeler.
Being 6'3, you didn't fit the stated criteria. Much taller than 5'9 so you will be able to be significantly heavier. Also, as stated above, the only way people are truely at 5% bodyfat is in absolute contest shape. Big difference between being "cut up" and in contest shape and dehydrated.
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Very interesting!!!!
With my approach I have very unique methods as well as determining what levels people should be eating and such.....
I will get it all together and take a look at your guys site for possibly submittal.
I am liking your site so far as it seems to want to get the truth out there.
On T-Mag you have to whore yourself quite a bit though. Put in a few product plugs in your articles. No way can you say all supplements suck and are not needed.
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People are just going to have to face the fact of truth that they are FATTER than they think they are. Much Much Much fatter.
I think that's where I'm at!!
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This year I lost 70 lbs,no Cardio and came in bigger.
bigger must be relative, in your words.
even your supposed girlfriend looks 'bigger' than you do.
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On T-Mag you have to whore yourself quite a bit though. Put in a few product plugs in your articles. No way can you say all supplements suck and are not needed.
Ahhh.
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Ahhh.
yeah the site is run by a supplement company: Biotest. CT's recent article is the first nutrition article I've ever seen on the site that makes any sense.
CT both of those guys have awesome physiques considering they're natural status, How old are they?
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CT both of those guys have awesome physiques considering they're natural status, How old are they?
Tell us their age, but DO NOT mention their BF%.
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Interesting read. I'll be reading more of CT's stuff in the future.
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I can't believe you guys still think GH15 wasn't made up by adonis and his croanies.
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So, Christian, no more "warrior diet" for you then? ;D
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So, Christian, no more "warrior diet" for you then? ;D
The Warrior Diet actually makes a lot of sense.
I like it a lot.
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So, Christian, no more "warrior diet" for you then? ;D
Well I only did this for like 6 weeks ... it does fit my psychological profile as I tend to be a binge eater and have my biggest food cravings at night. I think that it does work for a while IF you have a super slow metabolism (lower rate of protein turnover) but I ended up losing muscle mass while on it. I did enjoy it though.
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Tell us their age, but DO NOT mention their BF%.
Sebastien was 22 in those pics. I don't remember Allen's ... he's in my files somewhere, I'd have to check it out.
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Well I only did this for like 6 weeks ... it does fit my psychological profile as I tend to be a binge eater and have my biggest food cravings at night. I think that it does work for a while IF you have a super slow metabolism (lower rate of protein turnover) but I ended up losing muscle mass while on it. I did enjoy it though.
Explain the loss of muscle mass.
How did you gauge it?
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Explain the loss of muscle mass.
How did you gauge it?
Well, when I did it I was already fairly lean (around 8%.. I never go above 10%) and at that point it is fairly easy for me to assess if I'm making progress or not.
I also felt smaller. Now, some might argue that it was due to glycogen depletion but since the WD calls for a moderate carbs approach AND that I used low-carbs diets a lot in the past I know what being flat feels and looks like and this wasn't it.
I lost strength in the gym, something that rarely if ever happens to me even when I'm dieting super severely.
My girlfriend kept telling me that I was losing fullness and didn't look as thick... she's been involved in bodybuilding for over 20 years and has been competing for something like 15 years, so she has a very good eye for these things.
BUT I know some guys who had success with the approach or something similar. Serge Nubret, who was a good friend of one of my own friends, used to eat only once a day and had one of the best physique in the world. BUT he also used to train 4-5 hours a day with sets of 25-30 reps and have sex for another 4-5 hours... the guy was a freak so he's not really a good basis for comparison.
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Adonis is where it stops naturally? 167lbs? sorry, I don't think so. Do you really think Adonis has good genetics? hell no. He could juice to the gills and still never win a local show or even an internet "show".
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Well, when I did it I was already fairly lean (around 8%.. I never go above 10%) and at that point it is fairly easy for me to assess if I'm making progress or not.
I also felt smaller. Now, some might argue that it was due to glycogen depletion but since the WD calls for a moderate carbs approach AND that I used low-carbs diets a lot in the past I know what being flat feels and looks like and this wasn't it.
I lost strength in the gym, something that rarely if ever happens to me even when I'm dieting super severely.
My girlfriend kept telling me that I was losing fullness and didn't look as thick... she's been involved in bodybuilding for over 20 years and has been competing for something like 15 years, so she has a very good eye for these things.
BUT I know some guys who had success with the approach or something similar. Serge Nubret, who was a good friend of one of my own friends, used to eat only once a day and had one of the best physique in the world. BUT he also used to train 4-5 hours a day with sets of 25-30 reps and have sex for another 4-5 hours... the guy was a freak so he's not really a good basis for comparison.
Sounds like typical Glycogen depletion and not muscle loss to me. Some people store more Glycogen in the muscles and I am one of those people. This has a lot to do with the type of muscle fibers your body is made up of as well. The majoprity of people mistake a loss of strength or muscle due to lack of glycogen. I see it everyday.
The other reason is due to mechanical advantage. Muscle is extremely hard to lose when consistently resistance training.
When astronauts are in space, Muscle atrophies pretty fast in a Zero G- enviroment due to no resistance and poorer circulation as well as many other factors. The key is the lack of resistance and stress on the muscles that are casuing atrophy as their nutrition is perfect.
As long as one is applying consistent resistance, no muscle will occur even in a caloric defecit.
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Muscle Atrophy
Disuse atrophy of muscles (muscle atrophy) and bones, with loss of mass and strength, can occur after prolonged immobility, such as extended bedrest, or having a body part in a cast (living in darkness for the eye, bedridden for the legs, etc). This type of atrophy can usually be reversed with exercise unless severe. Astronauts must exercise regularly to minimize atrophy of their limb muscles while they are in microgravity.
There are many diseases and conditions which cause atrophy of muscle mass. For example diseases such as cancer and AIDS induce a body wasting syndrome called "cachexia", which is notable for the severe muscle atrophy seen. Other syndromes or conditions which can induce skeletal muscle atrophy are congestive heart failure and liver disease.
During aging, there is a gradual decrease in the ability to maintain skeletal muscle function and mass. This condition is called "sarcopenia", and may be distinct from atrophy in its pathophysiology. While the exact cause of sarcopenia is unknown, it may be induced by a combination of a gradual failure in the "satellite cells" which help to regenerate skeletal muscle fibers, and a decrease in sensitivity to or the availability of critical secreted growth factors which are necessary to maintain muscle mass and satellite cell survival
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cool thread
someone should make it a sticky
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cool thread
someone should make it a sticky
I agree.
I try to educate and have fun at the same time.
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Adonis, how can you give the guy who swore Steve Reeves was a juicer any credibility?
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Adonis, how can you give the guy who swore Steve Reeves was a juicer any credibility?
how do you knoe Steve wasn't a juicer ?
the only guy who knows is Steve Reeves himself, the rest is only speculations
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how do you knoe Steve wasn't a juicer ?
the only guy who knows is Steve Reeves himself, the rest is only speculations
Number one: Reeves was a man of the highest integrity and he said he never used any steroids. Number two: his competetive career pre-dated the availability of steroids. Number three: steroid use didn't become prevelant until about 1963 in bodybuilding in the USA.
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Bones only weigh 10 percent and less of a person.
So given a large or small bone size, you would still outweigh Arnold.
hahhahah
Face it. You are fat and just don`t realize it.
Post a pic and I will be dead honest with you.
im 215lb and all natural. I will like 2 post a pic or 2 just dont know how 2 post them,im new 2 this. Iwill like 4u 2 give me ur opinion on my shape also. thanks
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WTF. Are you 2 lazy 2 type "to"?
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My real estate agent is very good friends with Paul D'Accurzio who earned a pro card in the same nationals that Strydom got his. Paul was a natural bantam weight.
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WTF. Are you 2 lazy 2 type "to"?
easy there cow boy lol it gonna be ok lol i love this forum. ;D
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i think GH15 is another one looking for attention. he says he's an undercover pro so we should all believe him on everything? even if he is should we believe everything he says anyway?
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Muscle Atrophy
Disuse atrophy of muscles (muscle atrophy) and bones, with loss of mass and strength, can occur after prolonged immobility, such as extended bedrest, or having a body part in a cast (living in darkness for the eye, bedridden for the legs, etc). This type of atrophy can usually be reversed with exercise unless severe. Astronauts must exercise regularly to minimize atrophy of their limb muscles while they are in microgravity.
There are many diseases and conditions which cause atrophy of muscle mass. For example diseases such as cancer and AIDS induce a body wasting syndrome called "cachexia", which is notable for the severe muscle atrophy seen. Other syndromes or conditions which can induce skeletal muscle atrophy are congestive heart failure and liver disease.
During aging, there is a gradual decrease in the ability to maintain skeletal muscle function and mass. This condition is called "sarcopenia", and may be distinct from atrophy in its pathophysiology. While the exact cause of sarcopenia is unknown, it may be induced by a combination of a gradual failure in the "satellite cells" which help to regenerate skeletal muscle fibers, and a decrease in sensitivity to or the availability of critical secreted growth factors which are necessary to maintain muscle mass and satellite cell survival
directly copied from WidiPedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrophy
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Muscle Atrophy
Disuse atrophy of muscles (muscle atrophy) and bones, with loss of mass and strength, can occur after prolonged immobility, such as extended bedrest, or having a body part in a cast (living in darkness for the eye, bedridden for the legs, etc). This type of atrophy can usually be reversed with exercise unless severe. Astronauts must exercise regularly to minimize atrophy of their limb muscles while they are in microgravity.
There are many diseases and conditions which cause atrophy of muscle mass. For example diseases such as cancer and AIDS induce a body wasting syndrome called "cachexia", which is notable for the severe muscle atrophy seen. Other syndromes or conditions which can induce skeletal muscle atrophy are congestive heart failure and liver disease.
During aging, there is a gradual decrease in the ability to maintain skeletal muscle function and mass. This condition is called "sarcopenia", and may be distinct from atrophy in its pathophysiology. While the exact cause of sarcopenia is unknown, it may be induced by a combination of a gradual failure in the "satellite cells" which help to regenerate skeletal muscle fibers, and a decrease in sensitivity to or the availability of critical secreted growth factors which are necessary to maintain muscle mass and satellite cell survival
you forgot to copy the next paragragh also
"Vaginal Atrophy
In post-menopausal women, the walls of the vagina thin - this process is called atrophy. The mechanism for the age-related condition is not yet clear, though there are theories that the effect is caused by decreases in estrogen levels.
"
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Number one: Reeves was a man of the highest integrity and he said he never used any steroids. Number two: his competetive career pre-dated the availability of steroids. Number three: steroid use didn't become prevelant until about 1963 in bodybuilding in the USA.
I read somewhere that steroids were invented in the late 40's
I could absolutly be wrong on this subject thought
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Anyone...........(GH15 included), that speaks in absolutes in automatically wrong. There are exceptions to every rule. All I have to do is look in the mirror and I see a natural who isn't fat that weighs 245 lbs. with 19.5 in arms, a 35 in. waist and a 51 in chest. Now is the time all of you douchebags and jump in and tell me how fat I am to knock me down a few notches, because you don't carry the muscle I do. Iv'e seen T/A's pics at 240 lbs. and I don't carry half as much fat as he did when he wasn't dieted down. Adonis, for someone who seems to have an inquisitive and open mind, why do you insist that your genetic limitations apply to everyone? Never mind me....look at some of the running backs and safeties in the NFL. These guys are thick, very muscular 220-240 pound men that put EVERYONE here to shame. To say "There are no true naturals over 200 lbs." is fvcking ludicrous, and actually subsribing to that train of thought is laughable.
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Muscle Atrophy
Disuse atrophy of muscles (muscle atrophy) and bones...
Actually the disuse atrophy in bone is considered a form of osteoporosis.
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Because protein synthesis ability in the human body don't vary by individual, differentiation is at the species level with some genetic variation between races.
Really.....so you think your abilty to synthesize protein is exactly the same as mine? that's pretty funny.
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Adonis, how can you give the guy who swore Steve Reeves was a juicer any credibility?
Being wrong on one thing doesn`t make him wrong on 1000 other things.
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Because protein synthesis ability in the human body don't vary by individual, differentiation is at the species level with some genetic variation between races.
Exactly!
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Aiming 5% while being natural is not sensible. Hardcore dieting makes naturals lose too much muscle. To be around 8% should be the goal in my opinion.
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Ernie Richards....5'8 211 at this show in 2002. Been training with him for 15 years. HEs lifetime natty tested urine/poly all the time. Plus hes my brother basically. Sorry TA just bacause your a genetic chimp doesnt mean others are. Hes the guy on the right in first pic
(http://www.musclemania.com/gallery/2002sb/bigimages/backstage02.jpg)
(http://www.musclemania.com/gallery/2001mmw/bigimages/e_richard1.jpg)
(http://www.musclemania.com/gallery/2001mmw/bigimages/e_richard2.jpg)
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Musclemania hahahahah
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Anyone...........(GH15 included), that speaks in absolutes in automatically wrong. There are exceptions to every rule. All I have to do is look in the mirror and I see a natural who isn't fat that weighs 245 lbs. with 19.5 in arms, a 35 in. waist and a 51 in chest. Now is the time all of you douchebags and jump in and tell me how fat I am to knock me down a few notches, because you don't carry the muscle I do. Iv'e seen T/A's pics at 240 lbs. and I don't carry half as much fat as he did when he wasn't dieted down. Adonis, for someone who seems to have an inquisitive and open mind, why do you insist that your genetic limitations apply to everyone? Never mind me....look at some of the running backs and safeties in the NFL. These guys are thick, very muscular 220-240 pound men that put EVERYONE here to shame. To say "There are no true naturals over 200 lbs." is fvcking ludicrous, and actually subsribing to that train of thought is laughable.
Exactly!
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Because protein synthesis ability in the human body don't vary by individual, differentiation is at the species level with some genetic variation between races.
So 115lb Monica Brandt and 290lb Marcus Ruhl synthesize protein at the same rate?
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Ernie Richards looks about 190 pounds in that pic, not 211 at 5'8".
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adonis, you lacugh at musclemania bacause you know you would never place in a show--please, I DARE YOU (here im talking down to your level now) I DOUBLE DARE YOU TOO, do ANY SHOW> VINCE G, has more muscle than you!!
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adonis, you lacugh at musclemania bacause you know you would never place in a show--please, I DARE YOU (here im talking down to your level now) I DOUBLE DARE YOU TOO, do ANY SHOW> VINCE G, has more muscle than you!!
Ouch!
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Ernie Richards....5'8 211 at this show in 2002. Been training with him for 15 years. HEs lifetime natty tested urine/poly all the time. Plus hes my brother basically. Sorry TA just bacause your a genetic chimp doesnt mean others are. Hes the guy on the right in first pic
(http://www.musclemania.com/gallery/2002sb/bigimages/backstage02.jpg)
(http://www.musclemania.com/gallery/2001mmw/bigimages/e_richard1.jpg)
(http://www.musclemania.com/gallery/2001mmw/bigimages/e_richard2.jpg)
dehydration works wonders too, there bodyfat isnt nothing special, its the fact that they dehydrate themselves i would be super cut if i cut my water for a day
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i better start typing in russian or german because the locos on this site still dont get 70% of what im saying,,,
let me write in capitals now so it is clearer.
ADONIS IS WHERE IS ENDS NATURALLY. ADONIS IS 165 POUNDS AT 5% AND THIS IS, AS I SAID, WHERE IS ENDS NATURALLY.
NOW IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY AT MY POST YOU WILL FIND THE LITTLE SENTENCE SOMEWHERE IN THERE THAT SAYS "+10-15LB". WHAT DID I MEAN BY THAT?,,,,
,,,ADONIS, IF YOUNG ENOUGH, CAN STILL ADD NATURALLY ANOTHER 10-15LB OF LEAN MUSCLE TO HIS FRAME,,,WHICH WILL PUT HIM AT 180LB MARK AT 5-6% NATURALLY. A PERSON AT 5'9 WHO CAN GET NATURALLY TO THOSE NUMBERS (NATURALLY NOT CLEAN!) SHOULD CONSIDER HIMSELF QUITE LUCKY. (I CONSIDER M1T A DRUG BY THE WAY)
ADONIS WILL GET IN THE GYM RIGHT NOW AT 185-190LB,,9-10% WHICH IS QUITE RESPECTABLE NATURALLY. IF YOUNG ENOUGH AND 10-15LB ADDED TO WHAT I SEE IN PICTURES OF HIM,,,HE CAN ENTER A GYM AT 200LB 10% NATURALLY AT THE FINAL STAGE OF HIS NATURAL DEVELOPMENT WHICH IS PHENOMINAL FOR A 5'9er.
THIS IS WHERE IS ENDS FOLKS.
*the other guy i see in those pics the 5'8 200+ is more juiced than an orange juice ;). clean is NOT natural! once you go on,, you will never look the same again. never! might shrink some,,,but your body changes,,your lean muscle mass increase from only sleeping and eating...add good training and you have a beast.
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i better start typing in russian or german because the locos on this site still dont get 70% of what im saying,,,
let me write in capitals now so it is clearer.
ADONIS IS WHERE IS ENDS NATURALLY. ADONIS IS 165 POUNDS AT 5% AND THIS IS, AS I SAID, WHERE IS ENDS NATURALLY.
NOW IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY AT MY POST YOU WILL FIND THE LITTLE SENTENCE SOMEWHERE IN THERE THAT SAYS "+10-15LB". WHAT DID I MEAN BY THAT?,,,,
,,,ADONIS, IF YOUNG ENOUGH, CAN STILL ADD NATURALLY ANOTHER 10-15LB OF LEAN MUSCLE TO HIS FRAME,,,WHICH WILL PUT HIM AT 180LB MARK AT 5-6% NATURALLY. A PERSON AT 5'9 WHO CAN GET NATURALLY TO THOSE NUMBERS (NATURALLY NOT CLEAN!) SHOULD CONSIDER HIMSELF QUITE LUCKY. (I CONSIDER M1T A DRUG BY THE WAY)
ADONIS WILL GET IN THE GYM RIGHT NOW AT 185-190LB,,9-10% WHICH IS QUITE RESPECTABLE NATURALLY. IF YOUNG ENOUGH AND 10-15LB ADDED TO WHAT I SEE IN PICTURES OF HIM,,,HE CAN ENTER A GYM AT 200LB 10% NATURALLY AT THE FINAL STAGE OF HIS NATURAL DEVELOPMENT WHICH IS PHENOMINAL FOR A 5'9er.
THIS IS WHERE IS ENDS FOLKS.
*the other guy i see in those pics the 5'8 200+ is more juiced than an orange juice ;). clean is NOT natural! once you go on,, you will never look the same again. never! might shrink some,,,but your body changes,,your lean muscle mass increase from only sleeping and eating...add good training and you have a beast.
I agree totally.
MY goal is set at about EXACTLY what you said in your above post. I have no delusion like the majority of people on this site. They are tilting at windmills.
I am still young enough to add that 10-15 and that is what I am doing. I am on course for that.
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Mr. Intenseone is only 5'6 or 5'7 and he said that (in the pictures that he posts) that he was over 200, and clean, and he sure looks about 5-6%. He has never been known to lie here on GetBig......what about that gh15? what about that TA?
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TA's not at 5-6%. Single digit, yes, but not 5-6%. A good buddy of mine lived with one of the football players at Purdue one year, and the guy was ripped to shreds, natural, and 205, at about 5' 10"-11". Look at college athletes and you'll see a good number of guys like that. Everyone's limitations are different. There are plenty of us on this board who outweigh TA and though not as cut as he is now, if we were we'd still be bigger and heavier than him. That doesn't diminish his accomplishments, it's just that everyone's different. Like it or not, we're not all in the same boat genetically. Just because you're not the absolute very best at something, doesn't mean it's not worth doing, and it doesn't mean that those that are luckier than you are cheating or need to be torn down.
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Mr. Intenseone is only 5'6 or 5'7 and he said that (in the pictures that he posts) that he was over 200, and clean, and he sure looks about 5-6%. He has never been known to lie here on GetBig......what about that gh15? what about that TA?
What Intenseone said was that he was clean for the show.
I don't think he said he was lifetime natural before it.
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Because protein synthesis ability in the human body don't vary by individual, differentiation is at the species level with some genetic variation between races.
There's more to maximum genetic muscle mass capacity than 'protein synthesis ability'.
Some people just have A LOT more muscle than others genetically. An simple example of this is the calf muscle. Some people have tiny calves and others have massive calves. All the other muscles of the body are just as genetically determined as the calf muscle. You can have a person that has most of their muscles larger than the average (like my samoan friend), does it not make sense that if started training, after a period that they will end up with larger muscles than someone who started with smaller muscles (True Adonis for example).
Couple this with high testosterone levels (the fact that there is a wide variation in the amount of testosterone and the way your body utilises testosterone) and you can see how some people can be much more muscular than most (average genetic) people could hope to be naturally.
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Lee Priest competed at about 154 lbs. at 5'4" before he started juicing. You love to look at things proportionately TA, so I bet it's easy to see that if he gained the extra 6-7" to match your height he would dwarf you.
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what a stupid thread. my friend from high school who got out of the marines not too long ago has 18 inch arms with no type of diet he has abs.
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Mr. Intenseone is only 5'6 or 5'7 and he said that (in the pictures that he posts) that he was over 200, and clean, and he sure looks about 5-6%. He has never been known to lie here on GetBig......what about that gh15? what about that TA?
TA's not at 5-6%. Single digit, yes, but not 5-6%. A good buddy of mine lived with one of the football players at Purdue one year, and the guy was ripped to shreds, natural, and 205, at about 5' 10"-11". Look at college athletes and you'll see a good number of guys like that. Everyone's limitations are different. There are plenty of us on this board who outweigh TA and though not as cut as he is now, if we were we'd still be bigger and heavier than him. That doesn't diminish his accomplishments, it's just that everyone's different. Like it or not, we're not all in the same boat genetically. Just because you're not the absolute very best at something, doesn't mean it's not worth doing, and it doesn't mean that those that are luckier than you are cheating or need to be torn down.
he said she said,,,a known issue when it comes to bodybuilders and or fitness entusiastics. 5'7 does not walk around at 200 lb at 6% period,, unless he was and/or is on hormones. "clean" guys that take breaks from using hormones,, are still very much hormonized,,infact they respond a lot better to the products since they give their body a break from time to time. thats that.
natural is very diff from clean. some people just take their physiqe up to 200lb mark and then go off and maintain it but they are NOT natural any more and be sure about the fact they dont walk around at 6% no matter how fast their metabolizm is and no matter what excuse of stomack deasease they give you. those same people most of the time declaire themselves as naturals since they were juicing their ass off 2 years ago and now days are "out of the game". dont let the american bodybuilder fool you! the foreign bodybuilders are more open about steroid use.
now,, ta in the pics i see is about 6% give or take 1%. in addition to that pay attention to the group of people you are talking about,,,,AMERICAN COLLEGE,,,TOP COLLEGE!,,, ATHLETES,,,the worst juicers out there,,,the ones who will take anything and everything,,,,my MAIN MAIN MAIN money makers are those college athletes/guys. they will sell their mom and their dad for muscle at this age and they pretty much do.
again the problem today is not the college any more because every one does hormones in college,,,from frat guys who abuse it drasticlly in order to look decent and get pussy and in many cases rape,,,to the average athlete in usa college,,, college is not the problem,,it used to be in mid 90s.
the recent problem in usa is the highschools. today 16 year olds are going on hormones on a regular basis. they do not wait till they are 18,,its too late,,,they want to be bigger,,,stronger,,,impress the dumb whores in highschool,,,and get a pass on their studies which you will in no where america kinda town if you are an "athlete"
they want it now,,,they dont have time to wait because 18 is too late for them to get a ticket out of town. ofcourse no need to say that 90% of them end up in the local gym 10 years later as the average joe calling themselves naturals ;)
the story of hormones in usa as of 2006 is so severe it cant be told in one simple post. youd be surprized how many girls using hormones in usa now days.
***ALL THE WEIGHTS IM TALKING ABOUT ARE FOR GUYS AT THE HEIGHT OF 5'10 OR LESS. ADD 7 POUNDS PER EXTRA INCH OF HEIGHT ABOVE 5'10.
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I agree totally.
MY goal is set at about EXACTLY what you said in your above post. I have no delusion like the majority of people on this site. They are tilting at windmills.
I am still young enough to add that 10-15 and that is what I am doing. I am on course for that.
TA...you are only 5'9? I thought you were taller
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Mr. Intenseone is only 5'6 or 5'7 and he said that (in the pictures that he posts) that he was over 200, and clean, and he sure looks about 5-6%. He has never been known to lie here on GetBig......what about that gh15? what about that TA?
No!
In those "rory pics" he was in the 160 and below!
He will tell you that.
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what a stupid thread. my friend from high school who got out of the marines not too long ago has 18 inch arms with no type of diet he has abs.
LOLOLOLOLOL.
I love how all these supposed ripped giants all seem to exist in some imaginary High School where they all played football.
LOLOLLLLLLLLLL ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOO Too Funny.
Yet you guys can`t even produce one picture of anyone that meets the criteria.
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he said she said,,,a known issue when it comes to bodybuilders and or fitness entusiastics. 5'7 does not walk around at 200 lb at 6% period,, unless he was and/or is on hormones. "clean" guys that take breaks from using hormones,, are still very much hormonized,,infact they respond a lot better to the products since they give their body a break from time to time. thats that.
natural is very diff from clean. some people just take their physiqe up to 200lb mark and then go off and maintain it but they are NOT natural any more and be sure about the fact they dont walk around at 6% no matter how fast their metabolizm is and no matter what excuse of stomack deasease they give you. those same people most of the time declaire themselves as naturals since they were juicing their ass off 2 years ago and now days are "out of the game". dont let the american bodybuilder fool you! the foreign bodybuilders are more open about steroid use.
now,, ta in the pics i see is about 6% give or take 1%. in addition to that pay attention to the group of people you are talking about,,,,AMERICAN COLLEGE,,,TOP COLLEGE!,,, ATHLETES,,,the worst juicers out there,,,the ones who will take anything and everything,,,,my MAIN MAIN MAIN money makers are those college athletes/guys. they will sell their mom and their dad for muscle at this age and they pretty much do.
again the problem today is not the college any more because every one does hormones in college,,,from frat guys who abuse it drasticlly in order to look decent and get pussy and in many cases rape,,,to the average athlete in usa college,,, college is not the problem,,it used to be in mid 90s.
the recent problem in usa is the highschools. today 16 year olds are going on hormones on a regular basis. they do not wait till they are 18,,its too late,,,they want to be bigger,,,stronger,,,impress the dumb whores in highschool,,,and get a pass on their studies which you will in no where america kinda town if you are an "athlete"
they want it now,,,they dont have time to wait because 18 is too late for them to get a ticket out of town. ofcourse no need to say that 90% of them end up in the local gym 10 years later as the average joe calling themselves naturals ;)
the story of hormones in usa as of 2006 is so severe it cant be told in one simple post. youd be surprized how many girls using hormones in usa now days.
***ALL THE WEIGHTS IM TALKING ABOUT ARE FOR GUYS AT THE HEIGHT OF 5'10 OR LESS. ADD 7 POUNDS PER EXTRA INCH OF HEIGHT ABOVE 5'10.
Good post. These people just don`t realize because they are EXTREMELY delusional.
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"hey there big boy I want to take a photo of your ripped muscular physique to show to the boys at the message boards"
"what the hell you homo geek!"
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t-mag is the worst site on the web for bodybuilding. their only focus is on selling supps, and bad ones at that, anyone remember their myostatin inhibitor, that they swore will make you look like ronnie coleman in a month, if not take more. hahahaha pathetic.
nothing against ct, the man has to make a living, but t-mag are the devil !
i strongly disagree with gh15 and adonis, i know many naturals that are over 200 lbs ripped without gear. i am one myself, and know many more. weight is just a number, bones, water, etc can all weight more or less depending on the individual.
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Good post. These people just don`t realize because they are EXTREMELY delusional.
with all of your talk you still came in 2nd. You were second best, what does say about your genetics and training methods?
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with all of your talk you still came in 2nd. You were second best, what does say about your genetics and training methods?
I will clearly surpass Whateva. He is in his mid to late 30s and is 5`9 168. His growth is near its end. I have A LOT more to do.
:)
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My arms are a fairly cut 19.5 in this pic and Iv'e never taken steroids in my life. I did take M1t for exactly 3 weeks years ago, gained some water weight and got itchy nipples so I stopped. Some light PH use is not responsible for my mass, I consider myself natural and I weigh 245. If I dropped 30 lbs. i would be ripped to shreds at 210-215 because I'm not fat now I know, I know, Adonis........ I'm obese ::). Obese people always have deeply separated delts, bi's and tri's ::) ::) While I know Iv'e been blessed genetically I don't consider myself some sort of muscle freak, I know a couple of other people that are my size. One of my best friends in HS was a guy named Barry. I swear to god he looked like lou ferrigno at 16 years old,no shit. He made me look puny. Thick traps, massive pecs and arms WITH ABS. He was pushing 200 as a fvcking kid. Unfortunately he literally went insane so he never realized his ridiculous potential
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=89736.0;attach=97106;image)
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O
Again with the Imaginary High School football player.
Starting to see a common trend. hahhahhahahahahah
YOU ARE OBESE!
You WILL NOT take a picture with your shirt off.
You are easily in the 30Percent or 40 percent bodyfat range.
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Me at 245 lbs.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=89736.0;attach=97106;image)
Adonis at 240+
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ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Again with the Imaginary High School football player.
Starting to see a common trend. hahhahhahahahahah
YOU ARE OBESE!
You WILL NOT take a picture with your shirt off.
You are easily in the 30Percent or 40 percent bodyfat range.
The only thing "imaginary" is your muscle mass.
How about a pic of you without ridiculously stark overhead lighting that exxagerates your size puny.
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The only thing "imaginary" is your muscle mass.
How about a pic of you without ridiculously stark overhead lighting that exxagerates your size puny.
hahhaah And from that pic you can clearly see my arm is BIGGER and LEANER than yours.
hahhahhah
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hahhaah And from that pic you can clearly see my arm is BIGGER and LEANER than yours.
hahhahhah
hahahahahahahahahahahaah aha you are fvcking funny. From that pic you can clearly see that my ARM is bigger and leaner than your LEG.
I think your Gravity suit is cutting off the circulation to your brain ;)
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hahahahahahahahahahahaah aha you are fvcking funny. From that pic you can clearly see that my ARM is bigger and leaner than your LEG.
I think your Gravity suit is cutting off the circulation to your brain ;)
You are too embarrased by your fat body to even take a pic with your shirt off.
I am sure my arm is bigger and leaner than your pic.
Your shoulders are tiny as well with no striations.
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You are too embarrased by your fat body to even take a pic with your shirt off.
I am sure my arm is bigger and leaner than your pic.
Your shoulders are tiny as well with no striations.
I don't have to take any more pics. The ONE PIC that i took will own your emaciated, misshapen joke of a body for all eternity. You will never be that big and muscular ever, not one day in your entire life. Hahahahahahahahaahahahah ahahahahahahaahahahahaha ahahaha i am the biggest natural. "legendary" kneecaps, hips and elbows hahahahahahahaahahahahaa
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I don't have to take any more pics. The ONE PIC that i took will own your emaciated, misshapen joke of a body for all eternity. You will never be that big and muscular ever, not one day in your entire life. Hahahahahahahahaahahahah ahahahahahahaahahahahaha ahahaha i am the biggest natural. "legendary" kneecaps, hips and elbows hahahahahahahaahahahahaa
You are melting down because as you sit at your computer, your gut is spilling over the waistband on your stretchy pants. You can clearly see that you are 30-40 percent bodyfat in that picture. You have NEVER been lean. EVER.
I love it. See you in the bantamweights when you diet down, captain. hahhah
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You are melting down because as you sit at your computer, your gut is spilling over the waistband on your stretchy pants. You can clearly see that you are 30-40 percent bodyfat in that picture. You have NEVER been lean. EVER.
I love it. See you in the bantamweights when you diet down, captain. hahhah
Hhaahahahaahahahaahahaha ha you are a jealous cock that knows he is defeated. I am amost as lean as you in that pic. If i dieted....not even dieted just watched what I ate, i would be just as lean as you WERE in those pics at 210+. Because I have great genetics for bodybuilding and you have great genetics for chess
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Hhaahahahaahahahaahahahaha you are a jealous cock that knows he is defeated. I am amost as lean as you in that pic. If i dieted....not even dieted just watched what I ate, i would be just as lean as you WERE in those pics at 210+. Because I have great genetics for bodybuilding and you have great genetics for chess
If you have such "Great Gentetics" why don`t you post a picture with your shirt off....Oh thats right...You can`t....You are 36 percent bodyfat and more.
Trust me, its easy to tell.
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Ok three things....to answer someone's question Adonis says he is 5'11" so the thread doesn't really apply to him.
2) There is no way in hell that the muscle mania guy weighs 211 if he is 5'8".
3) Nobody should disagree with GH15 again unless they can provide a pic of a natural under 5'10 that weighs over 200lbs at 5% BF. I don't think you can find anyone at even 190lbs meeting those criteria. If they exist it shouldn't be that hard to find...just use the power of teh intrawebs
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If you have such "Great Gentetics" why don`t you post a picture with your shirt off....Oh thats right...You can`t....You are 36 percent bodyfat and more.
Trust me, its easy to tell.
Why should I? i know i am a muscular freak and you are a little twerp with no muscle. the pic i posted is ample evidence of that, as EVERYONE ELSE here seems to think, except your gimmicks.
I hate to break it to you skinny, but what you did is nothing special, you couldn't even win a bbing contest that YOU were the only one who took it seriously. Whateva rolled out of bed, put on a wig and smoked you. After you lived and breathed this thing for months. you suck at bodybuilding ahahahahahahahahahahahah aha If I had your genetics i would hang myself.
Also why do you try so hard to create an aura of mystery around yourself? You are a skinny douche who thinks he's special......end of mystery.
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Why should I? i know i am a muscular freak and you are a little twerp with no muscle. the pic i posted is ample evidence of that, as EVERYONE ELSE here seems to think, except your gimmicks.
I hate to break it to you skinny, but what you did is nothing special, you couldn't even win a bbing contest that YOU were the only one who took it seriously. Whateva rolled out of bed, put on a wig and smoked you. After you lived and breathed this thing for months. you suck at bodybuilding ahahahahahahahahahahahah aha If I had your genetics i would hang myself.
Also why do you try so hard to create an aura of mystery around yourself? You are a skinny douche who thinks he's special......end of mystery.
Just to be clear...your arm is tiny for a 245lbs dude. It looks like a toothpick sticking out of a potato
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Just to be clear...your arm is tiny for a 245lbs dude. It looks like a toothpick sticking out of a potato
Yup a 19.5 inch toothpick ::) my arms are perfect. sick biceps peak and crazy horseshoe. What's great is I DON'T EVEN TRAIN THEM.
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Ok three things....to answer someone's question Adonis says he is 5'11" so the thread doesn't really apply to him.
2) There is no way in hell that the muscle mania guy weighs 211 if he is 5'8".
3) Nobody should disagree with GH15 again unless they can provide a pic of a natural under 5'10 that weighs over 200lbs at 5% BF. I don't think you can find anyone at even 190lbs meeting those criteria. If they exist it shouldn't be that hard to find...just use the power of teh intrawebs
Actually I am 5`10-5`11.
At one doctors office though they told me 69 inches but that was a few years ago and could have grown an inch.
Jezebelle has measured me at 5`10.5 and 5`11 at home though
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Why should I? i know i am a muscular freak and you are a little twerp with no muscle. the pic i posted is ample evidence of that, as EVERYONE ELSE here seems to think, except your gimmicks.
I hate to break it to you skinny, but what you did is nothing special, you couldn't even win a bbing contest that YOU were the only one who took it seriously. Whateva rolled out of bed, put on a wig and smoked you. After you lived and breathed this thing for months. you suck at bodybuilding ahahahahahahahahahahahah aha If I had your genetics i would hang myself.
Also why do you try so hard to create an aura of mystery around yourself? You are a skinny douche who thinks he's special......end of mystery.
Whateva is 5`9 and 167 lbs and was dieting for a show.
Do you think you can beat Whateva?
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Ok three things....to answer someone's question Adonis says he is 5'11" so the thread doesn't really apply to him.
2) There is no way in hell that the muscle mania guy weighs 211 if he is 5'8".
3) Nobody should disagree with GH15 again unless they can provide a pic of a natural under 5'10 that weighs over 200lbs at 5% BF. I don't think you can find anyone at even 190lbs meeting those criteria. If they exist it shouldn't be that hard to find...just use the power of teh intrawebs
EXACTLY.
All this talk of this imaginary high school football team where everyone is ripped to the bone and over 200 lbs...hahhahhahah Why does it occur only in High School, why not after High School? Where is this magical High School?
LOLOOLOLOL.
NOBODY CAN POST A PICTURE OR FIND SOMEONE THAT MEETS THAT CRITERIA.....ITs hillarious.
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Whateva is 5`9 and 167 lbs and was dieting for a show.
Do you think you can beat Whateva?
Easily. i am the best
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Easily. i am the best
So you can beat a 5`9 167 lbs Whateva?
Is that what you are saying?
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Naturals over 200 lb at 5 ft 10 or below are as rare as hen's teeth.I am talking about true naturals here not 1 year drug free I can pass a polygraph types.The nearest Brit to that is probably Alun Davies whose about 190 lbs at 5' 6" but that's in PROPER contest condition.
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Rob Hope - a great example of looking a lot bigger than you weigh-natural bodybuilding is all about the illusion of looking big onstage.Here's Rob 5 weeks out 173 lbs at 5'5-6?
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So you can beat a 5`9 167 lbs Whateva?
Is that what you are saying?
I'm not worried about the Mr. Getbig contestants or whether i can beat them or not. To be perfectly honest....i turn 40 in 9 months and i am considering going "on" and doing some masters stuff. If i compete my plans are try and do it at a high level. I think I have the genetics to do well, but it all depends on how well I respond to the supps.
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***ALL THE WEIGHTS IM TALKING ABOUT ARE FOR GUYS AT THE HEIGHT OF 5'10 OR LESS. ADD 7 POUNDS PER EXTRA INCH OF HEIGHT ABOVE 5'10.
,,,ADONIS, IF YOUNG ENOUGH, CAN STILL ADD NATURALLY ANOTHER 10-15LB OF LEAN MUSCLE TO HIS FRAME,,,WHICH WILL PUT HIM AT 180LB MARK AT 5-6% NATURALLY. A PERSON AT 5'9 WHO CAN GET NATURALLY TO THOSE NUMBERS (NATURALLY NOT CLEAN!) SHOULD CONSIDER HIMSELF QUITE LUCKY. (I CONSIDER M1T A DRUG BY THE WAY)
GH15.....I am FAr from any genetic beast.....but I was 4 - 5% here and weighed 192.....as far as the "knowing guys".....I do know TWO of them. Rick Silverman (who is taller than me).....I think he competed at a little over 200 (lifetime drug free)....and my friend scott (never competes....but is 5 - 6%...at around 190 - 195.. and is just about 5' 10...and NO I WILL NOT GO HOMO AND ASK TO TAKE A PIC OF HIM).....
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I'm not worried about the Mr. Getbig contestants or whether i can beat them or not. To be perfectly honest....i turn 40 in 9 months and i am considering going "on" and doing some masters stuff. If i compete my plans are try and do it at a high level. I think I have the genetics to do well, but it all depends on how well I respond to the supps.
So you are admitting that someone who is 5`9 167 lbs is capable of beating you and looking better.
Makes you feel bad about yourself, doesn`t it.....You are wrapped up in being "Big Groink" when in reality you have mistaken a lot of fat for muscle.
Its ok. Most people do this.
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Too many people seem obsessed with numbers-220 lb bodyweight,400 lb bench etc. All that matters is what you look like onstage not how much you weigh or can lift ::) Also almost everyone underestimates how much weight they need to lose to get in proper contest condition which does not mean abs showing and a few striations in the chest!
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So you are admitting that someone who is 5`9 167 lbs is capable of beating you and looking better.
Makes you feel bad about yourself, doesn`t it.....You are wrapped up in being "Big Groink" when in reality you have mistaken a lot of fat for muscle.
Its ok. Most people do this.
My muscle is real, yours is lighting. Hope this helps.
I am going to send some full body pics of myself to Dante to get his assesment of my potential for masters comp.
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GH15.....I am FAr from any genetic beast.....but I was 4 - 5% here and weighed 192.....as far as the "knowing guys".....I do know TWO of them. Rick Silverman (who is taller than me).....I think he competed at a little over 200 (lifetime drug free)....and my friend scott (never competes....but is 5 - 6%...at around 190 - 195.. and is just about 5' 10...and NO I WILL NOT GO HOMO AND ASK TO TAKE A PIC OF HIM).....
Curt,
According to RICK he competes at 190-200 not over.
There is a big section about it on his Website.
http://www.ricksilverman.com/bodyshop.html
After a little over three years into my bodybuilding "career", I had gained a maximum of 60 pounds, without the use of anabolic steroids. My competition weight remains around 195 to 200 pounds, but the overall quality seems to improve with time. I'm a little thicker around the waist in the off-season--up to a 32 inch waist from 31 inches--but I guess that comes with the terrain. At competition time, I still shrink back under 30 inches. I am still able to hide myself in a sport coat and tie, and people just think I'm in good shape. If I'm wearing surgical garb at work, I am frequently asked if I work out. It must be my arms that give it away.
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My muscle is real, yours is lighting. Hope this helps.
I am going to send some full body pics of myself to Dante to get his assesment of my potential for masters comp.
Actually its not.
I had great pictures with Full light so EVERYTHING can be seen.....Look at your fucking pic......YOUR ONE PIC! You can`t even see shit and its not even a pose. Plus half the picture is a flash...You are delusional as hell.
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This natural limit thing is stupid. How can Adonis be the natural limit when he doesn't even train legs? So lets say Adonis starts training legs and developes some hamstrings and calves, that would mean an increase of 10-20 pounds in itself.
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Curt,
RICK SILVERMAN is ALSO 6`1.
Not in the criteria.
Rick is 6`1 190 lbs.
http://www.ricksilverman.com/bodyshop.html
At 6'1", I weighed all of 135 pounds wet with those heavy hiking boots on. I vaguely recall thinking that I actually had fairly muscular arms back then, but I must have been confused. I rowed crew during my freshman fall and winter, but had to quit following a bout of the "asian flu" during the winter term. I may have had mononucleosis or something, and I actually lost about 10 pounds, if you can imagine. Fortunately, I don't have any pictures of myself from that time. I remained skinny for a long time after that, and I sang my way through college.
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Actually its not.
I had great pictures with Full light so EVERYTHING can be seen.....Look at your fucking pic......YOUR ONE PIC! You can`t even see shit and its not even a pose. Plus half the picture is a flash...You are delusional as hell.
Meltdown.
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So GH15 is still correct.
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Please tell me that everyone isn't buying into that Adonis, a 23-year old with 5 years of training, the the VERY TOP of what a lifetime natural bodybuilder can accomplish. Why? Because he tells you so in 1,000 posts a day?
God help us all!
It just goes to prove the point if you say something long enough, people will start belieing it.
Many picture of other naturals have been posted. All of them have been accused of being on drugs by Adonis and the drug dealer.
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Please tell me that everyone isn't buying into that Adonis, a 23-year old with 5 years of training, the the VERY TOP of what a lifetime natural bodybuilder can accomplish. Why? Because he tells you so in 1,000 posts a day?
God help us all!
It just goes to prove the point if you say something long enough, people will start belieing it.
Many picture of other naturals have been posted. All of them have been accused of being on drugs by Adonis and the drug dealer.
Those of us with brains see right through Adonis like an X ray. which isn't that far off from reality.
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Those of us with brains see right through Adonis like an X ray. which isn't that far off from reality.
Again,
Look at your picture. You can`t see anything. Its not a bodybuilding pose, you have a shirt on. You CAN see a Gut. Your picture has NO light. Half of it is a flash.
I have all clear pictures from the Mr. Getbig. Fully lit able to see everything.
With that said, can you or can you not beat a 5`9 167 lb Whateva?
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Again,
Look at your picture. You can`t see anything. Its not a bodybuilding pose, you have a shirt on. You CAN see a Gut. Your picture has NO light. Half of it is a flash.
I have all clear pictures from the Mr. Getbig. Fully lit able to see everything.
With that said, can you or can you not beat a 5`9 167 lb Whateva?
I am not concerned about Whateva, He's got a great build and i think he's cool. I know for a fact i can annihilate you with no problem. You are a skinny turd with an ugly body. What does Whateva have to do with the fact that I crush you, which you are admitting by now comparing me to the person you lost decisively to?
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So GH15 is still correct.
Adam.....i did state that I wasnt sure what weight Rick competed at....I should have looked it up to refresh my memory...but I was too lazy. The point being though...I am 5'9 and I was 192 in the pic. Again, I am FAR from any sort of genetic superior. My foray into the PH's was back in 1998 when I did one bottle of Ultimate Nutritions 19-Nor diol. While I "think" I felt a little more agressive....I also got some weird stomach aches while on it. They didnt produce shit for me back then....so I pretty much wrote them off.
So, I dont think he is correct in his assumption that 5'10 and under at 180 - 185 is the "upper limit". I have competed in enough shows....and been around naturals for the last 17 years. I have seen questionable...and believeable. Now, I dont think that we will ever see a ton of naturals getting over 210...I do think that we might see more getting close to the 200lb mark. I have some theories on how it could be done....but whats the point...as everyone knows....the $$$$ is no-where to be seen in bodybuilding.
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Adam.....i did state that I wasnt sure what weight Rick competed at....I should have looked it up to refresh my memory...but I was too lazy. The point being though...I am 5'9 and I was 192 in the pic. Again, I am FAR from any sort of genetic superior. My foray into the PH's was back in 1998 when I did one bottle of Ultimate Nutritions 19-Nor diol. While I "think" I felt a little more agressive....I also got some weird stomach aches while on it. They didnt produce shit for me back then....so I pretty much wrote them off.
So, I dont think he is correct in his assumption that 5'10 and under at 180 - 185 is the "upper limit". I have competed in enough shows....and been around naturals for the last 17 years. I have seen questionable...and believeable. Now, I dont think that we will ever see a ton of naturals getting over 210...I do think that we might see more getting close to the 200lb mark. I have some theories on how it could be done....but whats the point...as everyone knows....the $$$$ is no-where to be seen in bodybuilding.
I put the limit for us guys under 6 ft around 185-200. Never over 210.
You are as elite as it gets, and should be recognized as such.
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I am not concerned about Whateva, He's got a great build and i think he's cool. I know for a fact i can annihilate you with no problem. You are a skinny turd with an ugly body. What does Whateva have to do with the fact that I crush you, which you are admitting by now comparing me to the person you lost decisively to?
It has ALOT to do with it.
Not that weight matters,but you seem to want to make it an issue.
I weighed more than Whateva for Mr. Getbig and you want to bag on me for being "skinny turd" when you clearly are sure that Whateva will best you.
So your "skinny turd" argument regarding weight is a fallacy.
None of that changes the fact that you are still mistaking your fat for muscle.
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Adam, you are just as obnoxious as ever. Your grip on reality seems to slip a little more every day.
But Groink, your picture shows a gut. It's there and the torso looks buried. Move the arm and we'd see the spare tire all the way around. Good arms.
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It has ALOT to do with it.
Not that weight matters,but you seem to want to make it an issue.
I weighed more than Whateva for Mr. Getbig and you want to bag on me for being "skinny turd" when you clearly are sure that Whateva will best you.
So your "skinny turd" argument regarding weight is a fallacy.
None of that changes the fact that you are still mistaking your fat for muscle.
I never said whateva could beat me. Please show me where i did. regardless.....what's your fvcking point. You are a skinny turd because you LOOK like a skinny turd, I don't even know what you weigh.
Also i think it's funny that now you say "not that weight matters" When the whole point of your thread was HOW MUCH A NATURAL CAN WEIGH, You truly are a fvcking idiot.
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Adam, you are just as obnoxious as ever. Your grip on reality seems to slip a little more every day.
But Groink, your picture shows a gut. It's there and the torso looks buried. Move the arm and we'd see the spare tire all the way around. Good arms.
No you wouldn't because it's not there. Maybe the shirt was loose or whatever but I don't have a gut. never have never will.
And BTW it's GREAT arms....not good arms.
I am going to the gym now....Have fun in your space bubble Adonis.
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I never said whateva could beat me. Please show me where i did. regardless.....what's your fvcking point. You are a skinny turd because you LOOK like a skinny turd, I don't even know what you weigh.
Also i think it's funny that now you say "not that weight matters" When the whole point of your thread was HOW MUCH A NATURAL CAN WEIGH, You truly are a fvcking idiot.
I created the thread to point out that weight DOES NOT MATTER since certain weights are unattainable naturally, so therefore one SHOULD NOT be concerned with being a 200 plus pound impossibility if natural.
THAT is the reason why you and the majority of people on this site are fat.
They are tilting at windmills thinking that they have "Good Genetics" or that they can magically bulk their way to a bodyweight to reveal a 200 plus pound physique, even though nobody can post a picture of one that is under 6ft.
That is and was the point and We have demonstrated that Point Very well.
You are fat and have a gut its obvious. ANY natural with a waist like that has a gut, not to mention we can see it sticking out in your shirt. Prove us wrong magically. Take off your shirt and take a pic. ARE you embarrassed?
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I put the limit for us guys under 6 ft around 185-200. Never over 210.
You are as elite as it gets, and should be recognized as such.
I agree that the limit appears to be around 200. I do not see that there is going to be this huge jump in weights of naturals like was seen with the guys on the shit. I wish I could find the article that stated it, but in an issue of NB&F they stated that the guys who are over 30 - 35y/o rarely make jumps in weight....they just come in better conditioned. I tend to agree. Like I said, I have some ideas how to get someone to 210 and shredded....but what would be the point? I know there is going to be a time when i just dont have it in me to compete anymore and I will from that point on not want to put myself through the bullshit to get down to the bodyfat thats needed at the shows.
Also...I appreciate your compliment...but I am far from elite. Some of what I am thinking about is this...take guys who are 35+y/o and who have been lifting for about 20 years. Ask them when they felt they made the best progress...note NOT The best routines.....but when (age) they did. You will find that a lot of them experienced a hell of a growth jump somewhere between 26 - 30y/o. Then another small one just before 35 y/o.
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If you are willing to share your thoughts, I would like to hear them. I'm sure others would appreciate it too. Perhaps in the training forum?
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I agree that the limit appears to be around 200. I do not see that there is going to be this huge jump in weights of naturals like was seen with the guys on the shit. I wish I could find the article that stated it, but in an issue of NB&F they stated that the guys who are over 30 - 35y/o rarely make jumps in weight....they just come in better conditioned. I tend to agree. Like I said, I have some ideas how to get someone to 210 and shredded....but what would be the point? I know there is going to be a time when i just dont have it in me to compete anymore and I will from that point on not want to put myself through the bullshit to get down to the bodyfat thats needed at the shows.
Also...I appreciate your compliment...but I am far from elite. Some of what I am thinking about is this...take guys who are 35+y/o and who have been lifting for about 20 years. Ask them when they felt they made the best progress...note NOT The best routines.....but when (age) they did. You will find that a lot of them experienced a hell of a growth jump somewhere between 26 - 30y/o. Then another small one just before 35 y/o.
Perfect!
I am priming for when I reach 26 one day for that 26-30 jump.
I do know how to possibly go beyond that mark as well and it involves Gravity. That is the ONLY thing that will have such a dramatic effect that will Affect the body even on a cellular level so much that it is theoretically possible.
HyperGravity enviroment training is the key, one day, to enhance the natural trainee.
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No, I was talking to DrugFree.
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If you are willing to share your thoughts, I would like to hear them. I'm sure others would appreciate it too. Perhaps in the training forum?
I knew this would come up. Its like this.....take certain sports....when you see people REALLY excelling....when did they start lifting and becoming serious? What sort of things did they do at the VERY BEGINNING.
Part of my thought process involves looking at what type of exercises as well as how you perform those exercises....build what type of fibers. Then ONLY have the person do that stuff for like 3 - 5 years. I woud like to find out if there is really anything to the certain jumps in hormone output at those ages. Then, correlate training with those ages. So, if someone wants to compete...they would REFRAIN from dieting down during those times. Make sense?
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Perfect!
I am priming for when I reach 26 one day for that 26-30 jump.
Just like I stated....if I was to go back and really take note of the time when this supposed (and I do have to use that term) growth spurt started....I would NOT be fucking around with tryinng to be lean....or do a show.....or whatever. I would "ride the wave" so to speak.
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In the zero gravity of outer space, the human body slowly turns to mush. We have evolved in an environment about 4,000 miles from the center of Earth with a steady pull of 9.8 meters per second squared, a pull defined as 1 g. The cells that make up our bodies expect that pull and build up their walls with support structures, called cytoskeletons, accordingly. In space, the pull doesn't exist, and so the cells' cytoskeletons collapse. Muscles atrophy and bones decalcify. The heart shrinks.
This is a large part of why we're nowhere near deploying a manned Mars mission. After traveling in zero gravity for 18 months, the first human to step down onto the Red Planet would probably snap an anklebone and collapse into a small pile of goo. NASA has nearly completed the prototype of a spacecraft that would cut travel time to three months each way, but even in that reduced timeframe, zero gravity would have a debilitating effect on the body. NASA astronaut Jerry Linenger remembers how the absence of gravity caused extreme back pain for some passengers on the Russian space station Mir. In his book, Off the Planet, which recounts five months on Mir, Linenger says he experienced a 13 percent bone loss in his hips and lower spine. Two years later, he still hadn't recovered fully. Translation: Human physiology remains the primary stumbling block to a prolonged space journey. "On a long-duration trip to Mars, there's going to be significant bone loss," Linenger said on NPR's Fresh Air. "That could be a show-stopper."
Long-term exposure to microgravity makes humans weak, so hypergravity should have the opposite effect, right? In a 2001 study, 10 Australian fighter pilots routinely exposed to 2 to 6 gs while flying experienced an average 11 percent increase in the density of their spinal vertebrae over a 12-month period. NASA figures that astronauts could use a solar-powered, onboard centrifuge to stave off muscle and bone deterioration in space.
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I knew this would come up. Its like this.....take certain sports....when you see people REALLY excelling....when did they start lifting and becoming serious? What sort of things did they do at the VERY BEGINNING.
Part of my thought process involves looking at what type of exercises as well as how you perform those exercises....build what type of fibers. Then ONLY have the person do that stuff for like 3 - 5 years. I woud like to find out if there is really anything to the certain jumps in hormone output at those ages. Then, correlate training with those ages. So, if someone wants to compete...they would REFRAIN from dieting down during those times. Make sense?
Basicly, don't inhibit your natural juice? Makes sense, but the trick would be to track your natural hormones effectively I suppose. Otherwise, you could just confuse a few good weeks for the start of a real growth phase. To agree with the direction your system wants to take, when it wants to take it, definitely makes good sense. Thanks DF.
Adam, seek help.
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I created the thread to point out that weight DOES NOT MATTER since certain weights are unattainable naturally, so therefore one SHOULD NOT be concerned with being a 200 plus pound impossibility if natural.
THAT is the reason why you and the majority of people on this site are fat.
They are tilting at windmills thinking that they have "Good Genetics" or that they can magically bulk their way to a bodyweight to reveal a 200 plus pound physique, even though nobody can post a picture of one that is under 6ft.
That is and was the point and We have demonstrated that Point Very well.
You are fat and have a gut its obvious. ANY natural with a waist like that has a gut, not to mention we can see it sticking out in your shirt. Prove us wrong magically. Take off your shirt and take a pic. ARE you embarrassed?
Nope. not embarassed, not fat either. Just REALY DON'T CARE if you think i'm fat or not. As I have stated you are a skinny turd. I would rather carry 15% BF and look great like me than be a sub 10% skeleton like you.If you would have gotten lean and actually carried some decent size it would impress me but you just look well......skinny. You have ZERO muscle thickness and for as lean as you got you don't look all that defined. My arms have better separation than yours and I'm supposedly "fat".
I'm going stop the endless nonsense now. We'll talk again when you are half my size and not gay.
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Nope. not embarassed, not fat either. Just REALY DON'T CARE if you think i'm fat or not. As I have stated you are a skinny turd. I would rather carry 15% BF and look great like me than be a sub 10% skeleton like you.If you would have gotten lean and actually carried some decent size it would impress me but you just look well......skinny. You have ZERO muscle thickness and for as lean as you got you don't look all that defined. My arms have better separation than yours and I'm supposedly "fat".
I'm going stop the endless nonsense now. We'll talk again when you are half my size and not gay.
Ice Cream is on me buddy.
hahahahah You have no muscle separation ANYWHERE!
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he said she said,,,a known issue when it comes to bodybuilders and or fitness entusiastics. 5'7 does not walk around at 200 lb at 6% period,, unless he was and/or is on hormones. "clean" guys that take breaks from using hormones,, are still very much hormonized,,infact they respond a lot better to the products since they give their body a break from time to time. thats that.
natural is very diff from clean. some people just take their physiqe up to 200lb mark and then go off and maintain it but they are NOT natural any more and be sure about the fact they dont walk around at 6% no matter how fast their metabolizm is and no matter what excuse of stomack deasease they give you. those same people most of the time declaire themselves as naturals since they were juicing their ass off 2 years ago and now days are "out of the game". dont let the american bodybuilder fool you! the foreign bodybuilders are more open about steroid use.
now,, ta in the pics i see is about 6% give or take 1%. in addition to that pay attention to the group of people you are talking about,,,,AMERICAN COLLEGE,,,TOP COLLEGE!,,, ATHLETES,,,the worst juicers out there,,,the ones who will take anything and everything,,,,my MAIN MAIN MAIN money makers are those college athletes/guys. they will sell their mom and their dad for muscle at this age and they pretty much do.
again the problem today is not the college any more because every one does hormones in college,,,from frat guys who abuse it drasticlly in order to look decent and get pussy and in many cases rape,,,to the average athlete in usa college,,, college is not the problem,,it used to be in mid 90s.
the recent problem in usa is the highschools. today 16 year olds are going on hormones on a regular basis. they do not wait till they are 18,,its too late,,,they want to be bigger,,,stronger,,,impress the dumb whores in highschool,,,and get a pass on their studies which you will in no where america kinda town if you are an "athlete"
they want it now,,,they dont have time to wait because 18 is too late for them to get a ticket out of town. ofcourse no need to say that 90% of them end up in the local gym 10 years later as the average joe calling themselves naturals ;)
the story of hormones in usa as of 2006 is so severe it cant be told in one simple post. youd be surprized how many girls using hormones in usa now days.
***ALL THE WEIGHTS IM TALKING ABOUT ARE FOR GUYS AT THE HEIGHT OF 5'10 OR LESS. ADD 7 POUNDS PER EXTRA INCH OF HEIGHT ABOVE 5'10.
Hmm I don't seem to remember you being there hanging out with us. And funny, you'd think with my friend living there with him he would have noticed him juicing, or I would have noticed the guy making dramatic gains.
Just because you sell steroids doesn't make youan expert on all things related to bodybuilding. It just makes you a drug-dealer. If you think that steroid use is such a problem in high schools, why don't yo try not selling to high school kids, jerkoff.
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Ice Cream is on me buddy.
hahahahah You have no muscle separation ANYWHERE!
How big....or should I say, how SMALL, were your arms in those pics? 15 and a half tops? My arms are 4 INCHES bigger with vastly superior shape density and separation. Your arms are disgusting looking.....if my arms looked that shitty I would chop them off.
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How big....or should I say, how SMALL, were your arms in those pics? 15 and a half tops? My arms are 4 INCHES bigger with vastly superior shape density and separation. Your arms are disgusting looking.....if my arms looked that shitty I would chop them off.
You have ZERO separation.
Anyone can see that.
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You have ZERO separation.
Anyone can see that.
Your arms don''t compare to mine in ANY aspect, now you are just embarrasing yourself.
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I should be more clear and state that sex differentiation exists as well. Bear in mind that women only have a fraction of the testosterone that males do.
So Paul Ruebens and Terrell Owens synthesize protein exactly the same?
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Your arms don''t compare to mine in ANY aspect, now you are just embarrasing yourself.
yeah Adonis you would be hard pressed to gain that much fat and lose muscle at the same time. He is both fattier and less muscular. You simply cannot compare, GIVE UP
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yeah Adonis you would be hard pressed to gain that much fat and lose muscle at the same time. He is both fattier and less muscular. You simply cannot compare, GIVE UP
Another person who sees the world through Adonis-colored glasses.
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I would like to see Groink enter the next contest and dwarf these jobronies!
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There is some differentiation between race as I said too.
It's a general rule. It doesn't mean there aren't outliers, as there are in all statistical data sets. However, the generality holds true.
I'm sure they synthesize protein the same WAY. but at vastly diifferent rates and efficiency.
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This is where I disagree. I think there are differences, but to say vast differences is inaccurate I think. Granted there are genetic freaks out there. A friend of mine deadlifted 500 after only one year of training. After six years of training, I'm lucky to get 450 on my best day.
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/matt1_deadlift.JPG)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/matt2_deadlift.JPG)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/matt3_deadlift.JPG)
Your'e a pretty solid loking dude Matt.
I always wanted to take training pics but I'd feel like a dick having someone take them, I'm funny that way.
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I deadlifted 600 in 5 years of training and hit 500 in 2 almost 3.
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My muscle is real, yours is lighting. Hope this helps.
I am going to send some full body pics of myself to Dante to get his assesment of my potential for masters comp.
You dont have to send me any pictures Groink, I can see your carrying a tremendous amount of muscle and would get my nod easily as who would clean house between the two of you onstage in contest shape. The tremendous difference is you took your picture just on a whim while Adonis spent 4 hours getting the overhead lighting just right, his oil placed just right, every meticulous detail down as I guess this really meant something absolutely gigantic to him (as his 2nd place nuclear debacle meltdown in the Mr GB showed). Adonis has a weird way of going about things. He doesnt feel strongly about his beliefs so what he does is go online and argue up and down with everyone trying to convince them of his way of thinking, so he can believe 100% in his beliefs. If Adonis was "bulking up" he would be arguing up and down with everyone that "they must bulk up". Now he is small and doesnt look much like a bodybuilder in clothes so he is arguing his ass off trying to get everyone to do what he currently is doing. Confidence is "doing your own thing" and not having to convince everyone else (and yourself) that its right
The sad thing Adonis doesnt realize is its very easy to gain fat and very hard to gain muscle, and even in his hypercalorie years where he went up to 230, he still dieted down to only 165lbs. He had all the bases covered "muscle gaining wise" during that bulking time even though he got pretty smooth and it wouldnt be a method I would recommend to people....because it leaves them unhappy (as you see Adonis). If he never bulked up to 230 I believe he would of ended up at about 145lbs dieted down because he never would of built that muscle mass (underneath that fat). I know that if he thinks he is going to be weighing in at 190 years down the road with his Ben N Jerry's diet, its not going to happen. You ate everything under the sun to end up at 165lbs of muscle dieted down, so now you think Adonis that your going to eat like crap and BMR and suddenly put on 30lbs of muscle? (Aint going to happen)
I disagree with Heinz (gh15) and Adonis here with what a natural can do. But this whole argument is a losing proposition. Somehow everyone here disregards every tall class/heavyweights winner of the team universe both Euro and American....heck Ronnie won the team Universe at 228lbs at 5'10 1/2" and its pretty well known he was clean then....but all that doesnt matter because no matter what pics you show, or who you name these guys will say "Yea right like their natural!?!?!" List the top 5 tall class/heavyweights winners of the team universe for the last 10 years...and youll see the reaction you'll get. Does anyone in this forum truly believe that 5' 9" 330lb juiced Vic Richards would be 5'9" 180lbs Vic Richards if he decided to be lifetime natural? Please. I think some of you guys have to get out of your small towns and start getting into some of the urban city area's. There are genetically elite black men out there that are walking houses and 3 months of lifting for them is like 8 years of lifting for the regular guy
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You dont have to send me any pictures Groink, I can see your carrying a tremendous amount of muscle and would get my nod easily as who would clean house between the two of you onstage in contest shape. The tremendous difference is you took your picture just on a whim while Adonis spent 4 hours getting the overhead lighting just right, his oil placed just right, every meticulous detail down as I guess this really meant something absolutely gigantic to him (as his 2nd place nuclear debacle meltdown in the Mr GB showed). Adonis has a weird way of going about things. He doesnt feel strongly about his beliefs so what he does is go online and argue up and down with everyone trying to convince them of his way of thinking, so he can believe 100% in his beliefs. If Adonis was "bulking up" he would be arguing up and down with everyone that "they must bulk up". Now he is small and doesnt look much like a bodybuilder in clothes so he is arguing his ass off trying to get everyone to do what he currently is doing. Confidence is "doing your own thing" and not having to convince everyone else (and yourself) that its right
The sad thing Adonis doesnt realize is its very easy to gain fat and very hard to gain muscle, and even in his hypercalorie years where he went up to 230, he still dieted down to only 165lbs. He had all the bases covered "muscle gaining wise" during that bulking time even though he got pretty smooth and it wouldnt be a method I would recommend to people....because it leaves them unhappy (as you see Adonis). If he never bulked up to 230 I believe he would of ended up at about 145lbs dieted down because he never would of built that muscle mass (underneath that fat). I know that if he thinks he is going to be weighing in at 190 years down the road with his Ben N Jerry's diet, its not going to happen. You ate everything under the sun to end up at 165lbs of muscle dieted down, so now you think Adonis that your going to eat like crap and BMR and suddenly put on 30lbs of muscle? (Aint going to happen)
I disagree with Heinz (gh15) and Adonis here with what a natural can do. But this whole argument is a losing proposition. Somehow everyone here disregards every tall class/heavyweights winner of the team universe both Euro and American....heck Ronnie won the team Universe at 228lbs at 5'10 1/2" and its pretty well known he was clean then....but all that doesnt matter because no matter what pics you show, or who you name these guys will say "Yea right like their natural!?!?!" List the top 5 tall class/heavyweights winners of the team universe for the last 10 years...and youll see the reaction you'll get. Does anyone in this forum truly believe that 5' 9" 330lb juiced Vic Richards would be 5'9" 180lbs Vic Richards if he decided to be lifetime natural? Please. I think some of you guys have to get out of your small towns and start getting into some of the urban city area's. There are genetically elite black men out there that are walking houses and 3 months of lifting for them is like 8 years of lifting for the regular guy
You better watch your mouth before you spout more lies.
I didn`t spend hours taking these pics....I took about 800 pics in 30 minutes. You have NEVER produced ANYONE that goes above the criteria I listed. NEVER NEVER NEVER.
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dc, didnt you say you were never posting here again? why are you here?
and team universe natural?? hahaha just like musclemania right?
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span up this page to post 158--see the black background--the overhead lighting and where your positioned underneath it? Thats not exactly the kitchen hallway is it?
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span up this page to post 158--see the black background--the overhead lighting and where your positioned underneath it? Thats not exactly the kitchen hallway is it?
And the pics I was judged on were done with Natural light in clear view.
The black backround ones were just as clear as well.
I have proved myself.
You cannot rush a Muscle Gain Dante`. You just can`t.
Your trainees will gain mass at given rate just like the rest of any other method....The trick is finding efficiency.
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I dont applaud you on some of the tactics you use online at all especially trivializing someone who has lost a son (absolutely disrespectful),
but I do applaud you on dieting down and getting in great shape.
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I dont applaud you on some of the tactics you use online at all especially trivializing someone who has lost a son (absolutely disrespectful),
but I do applaud you on dieting down and getting in great shape.
And I was actually thinking of writing something to show that YOUR methods aren`t entirely out there.
I do think the protein thing is, but your training, as I have always stated is not bad at all.
I believe Full Body routines are by far the most effecient and I know with your training you train each body part multiple times.
MY current research has me training my Body based on Gravitational pull so that means every time I step in the gym I have a calculated G-Force meaning, I stress the entire Body EQUALLY.
There is a parallel there. A small one. But its there.
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GH15 says you weigh 165. no denial about it?
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Gh15 is just as dellusional as Adonis.
He's pissed that he turned pro out of the country, couldn't win a state show in the states, but is forced to compete as a pro, taking last place at every show.
And he's most pissed that he has to use 4g of gear a week to look as bad as he does.
He posts on other boards too, he tones his dellusion down a bit there, but the absurdity is still there.
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GH15 says you weigh 165. no denial about it?
The pictures were taken in the 170s on my digital scale.
Scales read higher or lower.
One gym had me 180s
One had me upper 160s.
The one that had me in the 180s suprisingly was at a Military Base and was the most expensive and advanced as a scale can get, I choose to use my home scale reading! :) I have used that day in and day out and it reads in the 170s. I fluctuate 5-8 pounds daily as well.
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You're an idiot. That means you took a pic every 2.25 seconds while changing lighting, location and poses everytime. Also, you said that you had put lots and lots of time into the pics. Yes, I realise a lot of that was prep, but you still didn't take 800 pics in 30 mins. And TA, you've never produced ANYTHING period. You haven't actually backed up any of what you said in the face of the evidence against what you've been saying. You've posted articles that you copy and pasted and didn't even read, as evidenced by the ones you've posted that in no uncertain terms contradict what you say. Dante's right, you just want everyone else to be in the same boat you are, and on top of that you want them to thank you for it. Well, thanks but no thanks, I'm going to keep getting bigger than you, stronger than you and calling you on your bullshit.
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You're an idiot. That means you took a pic every 2.25 seconds while changing lighting, location and poses everytime. Also, you said that you had put lots and lots of time into the pics. Yes, I realise a lot of that was prep, but you still didn't take 800 pics in 30 mins. And TA, you've never produced ANYTHING period. You haven't actually backed up any of what you said in the face of the evidence against what you've been saying. You've posted articles that you copy and pasted and didn't even read, as evidenced by the ones you've posted that in no uncertain terms contradict what you say. Dante's right, you just want everyone else to be in the same boat you are, and on top of that you want them to thank you for it. Well, thanks but no thanks, I'm going to keep getting bigger than you, stronger than you and calling you on your bullshit.
You don`t know how a camera works do you? Or a posing session.
I held a pose and JEzebelle kept her finger on the clicker. I think it takes pics at a rate of 5 a second or more.
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You're an idiot. That means you took a pic every 2.25 seconds while changing lighting, location and poses everytime. Also, you said that you had put lots and lots of time into the pics. Yes, I realise a lot of that was prep, but you still didn't take 800 pics in 30 mins. And TA, you've never produced ANYTHING period. You haven't actually backed up any of what you said in the face of the evidence against what you've been saying. You've posted articles that you copy and pasted and didn't even read, as evidenced by the ones you've posted that in no uncertain terms contradict what you say. Dante's right, you just want everyone else to be in the same boat you are, and on top of that you want them to thank you for it. Well, thanks but no thanks, I'm going to keep getting bigger than you, stronger than you and calling you on your bullshit.
You are currently behind me.
You are not bigger or stronger. You won`t catch me.
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You better watch your mouth before you spout more lies.
I didn`t spend hours taking these pics....I took about 800 pics in 30 minutes. You have NEVER produced ANYONE that goes above the criteria I listed. NEVER NEVER NEVER.
awww...
cry?
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Hmm I don't seem to remember you being there hanging out with us. And funny, you'd think with my friend living there with him he would have noticed him juicing, or I would have noticed the guy making dramatic gains.
Just because you sell steroids doesn't make youan expert on all things related to bodybuilding. It just makes you a drug-dealer. If you think that steroid use is such a problem in high schools, why don't yo try not selling to high school kids, jerkoff.
ok,,first,,i am PRO IFBB BODY-BUILDER. 2006 O TOP 15 (yes the won jason cutler won),, so you calling me drug dealer does nothing but gets you where you started to beging with - denial.
when i decide to participate and give you 10 min of my time,,,you better unerstand that i do not do it for any other reason beside to put the truth on the table.
i am VERY femiliar with every group of athletes in usa and abroad and with their drug needs and ofcourse use and abuse,, from marathon runners to cyclists to boxers to football players to powerlifters and ofcourse bodybuilders.
what i say on getbig is out of years of experience and years of actually working with natural athletes,,clean athetes,,and hormonized athletes + working on my own self both naturally and hormonized.
when you want to be called natural,,, you will know how to do it even if you use hormones. it is your first priority and NO ONE else will know it but you. when you aim at pleasing and being at the top where drugs are seen as absolute horror and end of career with big stain,,you will do whatever it takes to swim with the fish even though youre a shark. you will end up eating them but you will always swim around them comfortably if you know what youre doing.
the 190-192lb guy i seen in oneof the posts above is at 6-7% BF. it is possible naturally at the heights mentioned. if you get there naturally you are one lucky dude. that is where it will stop though.
now,, i never said adonis had the best natural physiqe! i said adonis with 10-15 extra lb at 5-6% is where it stops naturally. he does not have the best physiqe because that dady mady boy is washing the floor with him.
i got nothing else to add to this dicussion because you will learn it sooner or later in your bodybuilding endevour.
good luck
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ok,,first,,i am PRO IFBB BODY-BUILDER. 2006 O TOP 15 (yes the won jason cutler won),, so you calling me drug dealer does nothing but gets you where you started to beging with - denial.
when i decide to participate and give you 10 min of my time,,,you better unerstand that i do not do it for any other reason beside to put the truth on the table.
i am VERY femiliar with every group of athletes in usa and abroad and with their drug needs and ofcourse use and abuse,, from marathon runners to cyclists to boxers to football players to powerlifters and ofcourse bodybuilders.
what i say on getbig is out of years of experience and years of actually working with natural athletes,,clean athetes,,and hormonized athletes + working on my own self both naturally and hormonized.
when you want to be called natural,,, you will know how to do it even if you use hormones. it is your first priority and NO ONE else will know it but you. when you aim at pleasing and being at the top where drugs are seen as absolute horror and end of career with big stain,,you will do whatever it takes to swim with the fish even though youre a shark. you will end up eating them but you will always swim around them comfortably if you know what youre doing.
the 190-192lb guy i seen in oneof the posts above is at 6-7% BF. it is possible naturally at the heights mentioned. if you get there naturally you are one lucky dude. that is where it will stop though.
now,, i never said adonis had the best natural physiqe! i said adonis with 10-15 extra lb at 5-6% is where it stops naturally. he does not have the best physiqe because that dady mady boy is washing the floor with him.
i got nothing else to add to this dicussion because you will learn it sooner or later in your bodybuilding endevour.
good luck
I don`t think some of them EVER will learn the truth.
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You are currently behind me.
You are not bigger or stronger. You won`t catch me.
Hmm well you don't actually know any of that do you? You don't know what my lifts are. You don't know how big I am now. You know I've been in the 160's as lean as you are at 5'6". Here, I'll take a cue from you, "relatively" that makes me bigger. Tell me how much I weigh right now. Tell me what my lifts are. Tell me what my bf % is. You can't. I've looked like you ebfore. I was an emaciated 120 lbs. once, and I gained more than 40lbs. of muscle since then. Don't limit yourself.
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Hmm well you don't actually know any of that do you? You don't know what my lifts are. You don't know how big I am now. You know I've been in the 160's as lean as you are at 5'6". Here, I'll take a cue from you, "relatively" that makes me bigger. Tell me how much I weigh right now. Tell me what my lifts are. Tell me what my bf % is. You can't. I've looked like you ebfore. I was an emaciated 120 lbs. once, and I gained more than 40lbs. of muscle since then. Don't limit yourself.
I knew it.
HAHHAHHAHHAHAHAH
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I just destroyed El Spiko.
I love it.
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ok,,first,,i am PRO IFBB BODY-BUILDER. 2006 O TOP 15 (yes the won jason cutler won),, so you calling me drug dealer does nothing but gets you where you started to beging with - denial.
when i decide to participate and give you 10 min of my time,,,you better unerstand that i do not do it for any other reason beside to put the truth on the table.
i am VERY femiliar with every group of athletes in usa and abroad and with their drug needs and ofcourse use and abuse,, from marathon runners to cyclists to boxers to football players to powerlifters and ofcourse bodybuilders.
what i say on getbig is out of years of experience and years of actually working with natural athletes,,clean athetes,,and hormonized athletes + working on my own self both naturally and hormonized.
when you want to be called natural,,, you will know how to do it even if you use hormones. it is your first priority and NO ONE else will know it but you. when you aim at pleasing and being at the top where drugs are seen as absolute horror and end of career with big stain,,you will do whatever it takes to swim with the fish even though youre a shark. you will end up eating them but you will always swim around them comfortably if you know what youre doing.
the 190-192lb guy i seen in oneof the posts above is at 6-7% BF. it is possible naturally at the heights mentioned. if you get there naturally you are one lucky dude. that is where it will stop though.
now,, i never said adonis had the best natural physiqe! i said adonis with 10-15 extra lb at 5-6% is where it stops naturally. he does not have the best physiqe because that dady mady boy is washing the floor with him.
i got nothing else to add to this dicussion because you will learn it sooner or later in your bodybuilding endevour.
good luck
See, I was thinking that you were saying TA is best a natural can hope for. Yeah, it's hard to get big naturally, i won't deny that, and there is certainly a limit to how big you can get without steroids. I knew you dealt steroids, didn't know you were in the 15 at the O, so I obviously put my foot in my mouth there. Sorry about that, my bad. TA likes to tote himself as the peak of natural developement, he's aid it before numerous times, and he was using your post to back that up. So anyway, yeah, sorry I put my foot in my mouth, obviously I misinterpreted what you were saying.
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See, I was thinking that you were saying TA is best a natural can hope for. Yeah, it's hard to get big naturally, i won't deny that, and there is certainly a limit to how big you can get without steroids. I knew you dealt steroids, didn't know you were in the 15 at the O, so I obviously put my foot in my mouth there. Sorry about that, my bad. TA likes to tote himself as the peak of natural developement, he's aid it before numerous times, and he was using your post to back that up. So anyway, yeah, sorry I put my foot in my mouth, obviously I misinterpreted what you were saying.
Given my age, and amount of time training and strength, I am the Peak of natural trainers. I am about 10-15 off the limit that is naturally attainable. I am doing everything correctly. So are A lot of others on this board.
So is Matt C.
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I just destroyed El Spiko.
I love it.
What the hell are you talking about? How did you "destroy" me? That first pic of me is from 2002, the last from about 13 months ago. That's 40 lbs. in 4 years. According to what you've said, my gains are impossible. How does posting random pics of yourself do anything? You still don't know how strong I am, or what I look like right now. For all your ranting and raving about how much muscle can be gained by a natural over the course of their life, those pics of me clearly prove you wrong. You're limiting yourself with your own "principles". If you're happy with your progress, fine. That doesn't mean that the rest of us have to settle for that ourselves. If you never push yourself to be better than what's thought of as possible, then how can you ever think you'd be the best? You're he one who's claimed to be the biggest natural bodybuilder in history, which is clearly not the case. How could you think you ever would be if you put limitations on yourself? All that does is give you more excuses for giving up or falling short.
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What the hell are you talking about? How did you "destroy" me? That first pic of me is from 2002, the last from about 13 months ago. That's 40 lbs. in 4 years. According to what you've said, my gains are impossible. How does posting random pics of yourself do anything? You still don't know how strong I am, or what I look like right now. For all your ranting and raving about how much muscle can be gained by a natural over the course of their life, those pics of me clearly prove you wrong. You're limiting yourself with your own "principles". If you're happy with your progress, fine. That doesn't mean that the rest of us have to settle for that ourselves. If you never push yourself to be better than what's thought of as possible, then how can you ever think you'd be the best? You're he one who's claimed to be the biggest natural bodybuilder in history, which is clearly not the case. How could you think you ever would be if you put limitations on yourself? All that does is give you more excuses for giving up or falling short.
Your 13 months pics need about 30 lbs of fat loss at least,possibly a bit more.
So NO, you did NOT gain 40 lbs of Muscle. FACT!
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i'm over 190 right now .. 194 last time i weighed and very lean.. as i an naturally lean always regardless of what i eat
so... i disagree wuth your theory
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i'm over 190 right now .. 194 last time i weighed and very lean.. as i an naturally lean always regardless of what i eat
so... i disagree wuth your theory
How so?
You aren`t ripped over 200, now are you...Looks like you agree by default.
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Too many people seem obsessed with numbers-220 lb bodyweight,400 lb bench etc. All that matters is what you look like onstage not how much you weigh or can lift ::) Also almost everyone underestimates how much weight they need to lose to get in proper contest condition which does not mean abs showing and a few striations in the chest!
u can say that again...they shrink incredibly
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LMAO!
It NEVER ceases to amaze me what people believe to be true. If YOU can't do it then NO ONE can do it...that seems to be the mentality of most on here.
When are people going to realize that there are freaks out there...not genetic freaks but people with a work-ethic in the gym that is unrivaled? If you think someone can't be around 200 pounds with a bodyfat percentage of 5% why don't you come workout with me, Adonis? Shoot me a message. If you live close, we'll hit the weights one day. You need to be humbled.
TEC
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You better watch your mouth before you spout more lies.
I didn`t spend hours taking these pics....I took about 800 pics in 30 minutes. You have NEVER produced ANYONE that goes above the criteria I listed. NEVER NEVER NEVER.
800 pics in 30 minutes.
30 minutes.
1 minute = 60 seconds.
30*60 = 1800 seconds.
1800 seconds. 800 pics.
1800/800 =2,2725 seconds
A pic were taken on average every 2,2725 seconds, for 30 minutes straight.
Explain to me how you were able to do this?
YIP
Zack
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How so?
You aren`t ripped over 200, now are you...Looks like you agree by default.
im a ripped natural no diet 194
and im not a bber.. as in i dont supplement or eat bulk up food or whatever...
i just train and im 194 between 6 or 7% NATURALLy
...
so quite easily a guy with good genens who eats properly
and supplements.... could be 200 easy...
im just 6lbs off.. and i repeat im not a bber.
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800 pics in 30 minutes.
30 minutes.
1 minute = 60 seconds.
30*60 = 1800 seconds.
1800 seconds. 800 pics.
1800/800 =2,2725 seconds
A pic were taken on average every 2,2725 seconds, for 30 minutes straight.
Explain to me how you were able to do this?
YIP
Zack
Maybe it was 34 minutes and 27 seconds.
The camera does 5 pictures a second and even faster depending on what you set the shutter speed at.
You obviously don`t know a thing about photography.
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Maybe it was 34 minutes and 27 seconds.
The camera does 5 pictures a second and even faster depending on what you set the shutter speed at.
That explains why you posted 5 pics of the same arm pose pre-contest.
You obviously don`t know a thing about photography.
I think I know a few things. Such as what size is generally used, and other things that are important for editing. Other than that, I'm laymanish, yes.
YIP
Zack
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Maybe it was 34 minutes and 27 seconds.
The camera does 5 pictures a second and even faster depending on what you set the shutter speed at.
You obviously don`t know a thing about photography.
And you are talking out of your ass as usual.
You OBVIOUSLY spent a great deal of time and effort on your pics. You probably shot pics for days using different lighting, sets and exposure until you stumbled across something that makes you look a little less pathetic.
Dante is 100% percent correct......You are a weak minded fool with a very myopic worldview. You are the exact opposite of what you think you are.
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That explains why you posted 5 pics of the same arm pose pre-contest.
I think I know a few things. Such as what size is generally used, and other things that are important for editing. Other than that, I'm laymanish, yes.
YIP
Zack
Yes!
This is why you get many of the "same" picture......They really aren`t the same picture,they are in fact the result of many pictures taken per second at a fast shutter speed.
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Your 13 months pics need about 30 lbs of fat loss at least,possibly a bit more.
So NO, you did NOT gain 40 lbs of Muscle. FACT!
You're crazy, plain and simple. 30 lbs. of fat? I cannot possibly be in that shape and be in the 25-30% bf range. You've posted the pics of how you looked at about 30%. By your logic then I am at the same bodyfat percentage as you in your fat pics? Do your math. I'm in single digits that photo. FACT!
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i'm pretty sure layne norton and beast from bodybuilding.com claim to be 200 pounds in contest shape totally natural
i think both are 5'10
E
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Gh15 is just as dellusional as Adonis.
He's pissed that he turned pro out of the country, couldn't win a state show in the states, but is forced to compete as a pro, taking last place at every show.
And he's most pissed that he has to use 4g of gear a week to look as bad as he does.
He posts on other boards too, he tones his dellusion down a bit there, but the absurdity is still there.
Uhhh, have to defend the international community here.
GH15 never even came close to turning pro in international proqualifiers.
Somehow, I have no idea why, the IFBB gave him a card :-\
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i'm pretty sure layne norton and beast from bodybuilding.com claim to be 200 pounds in contest shape totally natural
i think both are 5'10
E
Nope.
Go to OCBBODYBUILDING.com and ask Layne himself.
HE HAS NEVER WEIGHED 200 OR OVER ON A STAGE. EVER.
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so what did he weigh?
E
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You dont have to send me any pictures Groink, I can see your carrying a tremendous amount of muscle and would get my nod easily as who would clean house between the two of you onstage in contest shape. The tremendous difference is you took your picture just on a whim while Adonis spent 4 hours getting the overhead lighting just right, his oil placed just right, every meticulous detail down as I guess this really meant something absolutely gigantic to him (as his 2nd place nuclear debacle meltdown in the Mr GB showed). Adonis has a weird way of going about things. He doesnt feel strongly about his beliefs so what he does is go online and argue up and down with everyone trying to convince them of his way of thinking, so he can believe 100% in his beliefs. If Adonis was "bulking up" he would be arguing up and down with everyone that "they must bulk up". Now he is small and doesnt look much like a bodybuilder in clothes so he is arguing his ass off trying to get everyone to do what he currently is doing. Confidence is "doing your own thing" and not having to convince everyone else (and yourself) that its right
The sad thing Adonis doesnt realize is its very easy to gain fat and very hard to gain muscle, and even in his hypercalorie years where he went up to 230, he still dieted down to only 165lbs. He had all the bases covered "muscle gaining wise" during that bulking time even though he got pretty smooth and it wouldnt be a method I would recommend to people....because it leaves them unhappy (as you see Adonis). If he never bulked up to 230 I believe he would of ended up at about 145lbs dieted down because he never would of built that muscle mass (underneath that fat). I know that if he thinks he is going to be weighing in at 190 years down the road with his Ben N Jerry's diet, its not going to happen. You ate everything under the sun to end up at 165lbs of muscle dieted down, so now you think Adonis that your going to eat like crap and BMR and suddenly put on 30lbs of muscle? (Aint going to happen)
I disagree with Heinz (gh15) and Adonis here with what a natural can do. But this whole argument is a losing proposition. Somehow everyone here disregards every tall class/heavyweights winner of the team universe both Euro and American....heck Ronnie won the team Universe at 228lbs at 5'10 1/2" and its pretty well known he was clean then....but all that doesnt matter because no matter what pics you show, or who you name these guys will say "Yea right like their natural!?!?!" List the top 5 tall class/heavyweights winners of the team universe for the last 10 years...and youll see the reaction you'll get. Does anyone in this forum truly believe that 5' 9" 330lb juiced Vic Richards would be 5'9" 180lbs Vic Richards if he decided to be lifetime natural? Please. I think some of you guys have to get out of your small towns and start getting into some of the urban city area's. There are genetically elite black men out there that are walking houses and 3 months of lifting for them is like 8 years of lifting for the regular guy
Excellent post Dante. I am sure I will be flamed for this, but please feel free to post more. I find you very informative :D
And as for gh15, with all due respect for TA who does have a nice physique, to say he is as far as a natural can go is simply ludicrous. So, TA himself cannot improve? TA would win every natty show he entered? Please.
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Nope.
Go to OCBBODYBUILDING.com and ask Layne himself.
HE HAS NEVER WEIGHED 200 OR OVER ON A STAGE. EVER.
Are you doing the Elite?
I'm sure there's a bantamweight division.
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post your pictures mesomorph
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Nope.
Go to OCBBODYBUILDING.com and ask Layne himself.
HE HAS NEVER WEIGHED 200 OR OVER ON A STAGE. EVER.
He's 5'10" and weighed 187...AND...he's only 22 years old.
What now, Adonis? It looks like he's going to easily break your "natural limit."
Like you said, he won't hit his peak until he's 30 or so.
What? Are you going to say he's a juicer? That he's not ripped enough?
Let's hear it.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/510/side_chest6.jpg)
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He's 5'10" and weighed 187...AND...he's only 22 years old.
What now, Adonis? It looks like he's going to easily break your "natural limit."
What? Are you going to say he's a jouicer? That he's not ripped enough?
Let's hear it.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/510/side_chest6.jpg)
He is not going to break any limit.
Here is what he looked ONE WEEK FROM THIS SHOW.
ONE WEEK!
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Excellent post Dante. I am sure I will be flamed for this, but please feel free to post more. I find you very informative :D
And as for gh15, with all due respect for TA who does have a nice physique, to say he is as far as a natural can go is simply ludicrous. So, TA himself cannot improve? TA would win every natty show he entered? Please.
Ronnie Coleman (8x o winner) never competed in the Team Universe. It wasn't invented yet. He cam in like 10th place (?) at the National in the Heavyweights and, because he was clean and could pass the test, was out on the US Mr. Universe team. He won his class there and became a pro.
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:)
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can something be done about their calves? they're smaller than mine.
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can something be done about their calves? they're smaller than mine.
Actually they are not.
You are clueless.
I have seen your pics.
A natural HAS to FLEX calves to be seen...They rarely ever just stand out.
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can something be done about their calves? they're smaller than mine.
They are probably smaller than *mine*. And I am being serious.
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:)
So one week later, you think you look better than him? You're crazy.
When you enter a contest, you have to manipulate your water. You are watery until the day of the show if you do it right. Obviously he did.
You think you look better than him? You don't. You "greased" yourself up with flattering ligting. He didn't one week out.
One week later there's no question he's miles ahead of you.
besides that, he's going to break your so-called natural limit. He'll be over well over 200 pounds at 5'10" in a few years---shredded.
Address the point of the natural limit.
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They are probably smaller than *mine*. And I am being serious.
Are you admitting to have large cankles like Flower? ;D
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whatever the mind can concieve to believe, it can achieve.
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(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/510/side_chest6.jpg)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99645.0;attach=107939;image)
He blows you away TA!
Layne's even younger than you. You, Adonis, are a second place internet contest finsiher (out of 8)
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So one week later, you think you look better than him? You're crazy.
When you enter a contest, you have to manipulate your water. You are watery until the day of the show if you do it right. Obviously he did.
You think you look better than him? You don't. You "greased" yourself up with flattering ligting. He didn't one week out.
One week later there's no question he's miles ahead of you.
besides that, he's going to break your so-called natural limit. He'll be over well over 200 pounds at 5'10" in a few years---shredded.
Address the point of the natural limit.
LAYNE DOES NOT MANIPULATE WATER!
I HAVE HIS PRE-CONTEST ARTICLE IF YOU WANT IT.
He talks about how bad it is to Manipulate water. HERE IS AN EXCERPT
This article will provide competitors information on diet, training, tanning, posing, and other competition related topics.
By: Layne Norton
Water
Many competitors practice the technique of water depletion. Water depletion consists of reducing one's liquid intake to practically nothing as they approach the contest. Not only is this practice very dangerous, it is also ineffective. Muscle tissue consists of 70% water.
If one restricts water intake drastically, they will lose muscle fullness and appear flat onstage. In addition, reducing water will increase the likelihood of muscle cramps while onstage (this happens quite frequently and is very embarrassing).
Some competitors believe water is what causes them to appear smooth. This is not the case. Water retention intracellularly (inside the cell) will cause one appear hard and full. Subcutaneous (under the skin) water retention however, causes one look smooth.
When the body senses a drastic restriction in water intake it will release anti-diuretic hormones that cause subcutaneous water retention. This makes physiological sense: the body senses it is not getting enough water and releases hormones that cause water retention to prevent dehydration. The result is muscles that appear look flat; from lack of water intracellularly, and soft; from retaining water subcutaneously.
The competitor's goal is to maximize intracellular and minimize subcutaneous water retention. Part of this can be accomplished via proper carbohydrate depletion and repletion as discussed earlier. However, to maximize the impact on the body's water distribution will require manipulation of sodium intake.
Most techniques are merely theory-based as there is little scientific literature about how to properly sodium load and deplete to maximize intracellular and minimize subcutaneous water retention. Since there is little "hard" data to rely on, I will resort to stating "trust me" and list a sodium loading/depletion routine that I utilized with great success.
15 Days Out - Begin sodium loading. Salt or season all meals and eat foods high in sodium.
10 Days Out - Reduce sodium to 4000 mg per day.
5 Days Out - Reduce sodium to 2000 mg per day.
2 Days Out - Reduce sodium to 1500 mg.
1 Day Out - Reduce sodium to 1000 mg.
Show Day - covered below.
By increasing sodium intake during the "sodium loading" phase, your cells' sodium pumps will become up-regulated (working harder than normal) and pump Na+ ions out of the cell to maintain the equilibrium ion gradient.
When you begin to drop sodium intake, your cells' pumps will still be up-regulated, but since sodium intake is low it will pump out more sodium than normal and with it, a lot of water will be excreted (water levels fluctuate in relation to ion concentrations). During this time (5 days out up until the day before the show) you will begin to flatten out and look smaller than normal due to less water being held. Don't fret, as the final days of this program will fill you out nicely.
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I know you are a rookie who doesn't know much but sodium, water, and potassium all work together. By mainpulating his sodium, the water goes into the muscle--not between the skin and muscle and blurring his appearance. He took in more sodium one week out than on contest day.
BESIDES, WHO LOOKS BETTER?
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/510/side_chest6.jpg)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99645.0;attach=107939;image)
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My training partner has calves which get up to 17" pumped in good condition.
I think he got them that size from years of walking on them as a fat twat! I rarely even see him train calves. Maybe a few times in the past six months. Like I said, I think it's because of all the weight on them for so many years growing up. Once he leaned out, he kept the muscle.
MY Calves are 16 1/2 by the way.
A natural has to FLEX the calves like your training partner is, to see them.
:)
Here is layne And I side chest.
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/laynesc.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99645.0;attach=107939;image)
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http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/str8flexed (http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-1881271-10409943?url=http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/str8flexed)
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MY Calves are 16 1/2 by the way.
A natural has to FLEX the calves like your training partner is, to see them.
:)
Here is layne And I side chest.
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/laynesc.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99645.0;attach=107939;image)
Why do you use that picture of Layne.
This is him at his best and you are your (2ndplace getbig) best.
Best against best....who's better?
Don't be a weinnie!
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/510/side_chest6.jpg)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99645.0;attach=107939;image)
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Address your natural limit theory, TA.
Layne at 23 year od, 5'10", 187 pounds is going to break that easily if he trains for 8 more years at 30.
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Why do you use that picture of Layne.
This is him at his best and you are your (2ndplace getbig) best.
Best against best....who's better?
Don't be a weinnie!
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/510/side_chest6.jpg)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99645.0;attach=107939;image)
You have NEVER seen me at my best.
But from pictures to pictures I AM on an EQUAL LEVEL with Layne.
The pictures I posted are one week out by the way from his show in 2006.
You will be amazed at what I am going to show you soon. hahhahah
I would love to compete against that level and not the losers here that aren`t on this level.
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You have NEVER seen me at my best.
But from pictures to pictures I AM on an EQUAL LEVEL with Layne.
The pictures I posted are one week out by the way from his show in 2006.
You will be amazed at what I am going to show you soon. hahhahah
I would love to compete against that level and not the losers here that aren`t on this level.
These "losers" all blow you away.
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Address your natural limit theory, TA.
Layne at 23 year od, 5'10", 187 pounds is going to break that easily if he trains for 8 more years at 30.
He won`t.
Don`t worry.
This year he competed at a lighter bodyweight than last year.
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These "losers" all blow you away.
hahha I already blew you away.
You weren`t even a challenge...What did you get? Second to last?
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TA got shafted genetically, bottom line.
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hahha I already blew you away.
You weren`t even a challenge...What did you get? Second to last?
haha adonis you really think you pose me a challenge?
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haha adonis you really think you pose me a challenge?
Of course I do.Otherwise you wouldn`t be saying the things you do.
I have beaten you once and I don`t intend to let you catch up.
I never attack you first,but I will attack back.
No idea why you do that?
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Of course I do.Otherwise you wouldn`t be saying the things you do.
I have beaten you once and I don`t intend to let you catch up.
I never attack you first,but I will attack back.
No idea why you do that?
Calling all your competitors losers is not an attack?
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Why is the arm bigger than his leg ???
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It's sad that you spend so much time tearing other people down to build yourself up.
You aren't even close to Layne. His muscle maturity, density, and muscle quality are far superior to yours. You genetics aren't very good for BB either. Short legs and long torso will hinder you in a contest no matter how much muscle or how ripped you are.
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Calling all your competitors losers is not an attack?
I wasn`t calling any of them losers.
I was referring to the likes of Danielson,El Spiko,Alex 23....Those types.
The Getbig 7 are all champs in my book, Whateva included although he does like to make fun of my deceased father a lot. hahahah oh well.
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MY Calves are 16 1/2 by the way.
A natural has to FLEX the calves like your training partner is, to see the
Where do you come up with this shit?
My calves are 18" and they stand out just fine.
i just figured out what "The Adonis principle" is. Every time you see the words "a natural" or "everybody" simply replace it with "I" or "ME".
Allow me to demonstrate
" A natural has to flex his calves for them to stand out."
Change to
" I have to flex my calves to make them stand out."
Another
"A Natural's genetic limit is under 200 lbs. in contest shape"
Change to
'MY genetic limit is 200 ls. in contest shape."
It is infallible.
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Where do you come up with this shit?
My calves are 18" and they stand out just fine.
i just figured out what "The Adonis principle" is. Every time you see the words "a natural" or "everybody" simply replace it with "I" or "ME".
Allow me to demonstrate
" A natural has to flex his calves for them to stand out."
Haven't you figured out that TA is the center of the universe?
Change to
" I have to flex my calves to make them stand out."
Another
"A Natural's genetic limit is under 200 lbs. in contest shape"
Change to
'MY genetic limit is 200 ls. in contest shape."
It is infallible.
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Where do you come up with this shit?
My calves are 18" and they stand out just fine.
i just figured out what "The Adonis principle" is. Every time you see the words "a natural" or "everybody" simply replace it with "I" or "ME".
Allow me to demonstrate
" A natural has to flex his calves for them to stand out."
Change to
" I have to flex my calves to make them stand out."
Another
"A Natural's genetic limit is under 200 lbs. in contest shape"
Change to
'MY genetic limit is 200 ls. in contest shape."
It is infallible.
You don`t even have calves.
Whatever you say is meaningless, you have not backed up anything.
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Where do you come up with this shit?
My calves are 18" and they stand out just fine.
i just figured out what "The Adonis principle" is. Every time you see the words "a natural" or "everybody" simply replace it with "I" or "ME".
Allow me to demonstrate
" A natural has to flex his calves for them to stand out."
Change to
" I have to flex my calves to make them stand out."
Another
"A Natural's genetic limit is under 200 lbs. in contest shape"
Change to
'MY genetic limit is 200 ls. in contest shape."
It is infallible.
owned.
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Where do you come up with this shit?
My calves are 18" and they stand out just fine.
i just figured out what "The Adonis principle" is. Every time you see the words "a natural" or "everybody" simply replace it with "I" or "ME".
Allow me to demonstrate
" A natural has to flex his calves for them to stand out."
Change to
" I have to flex my calves to make them stand out."
Another
"A Natural's genetic limit is under 200 lbs. in contest shape"
Change to
'MY genetic limit is 200 ls. in contest shape."
It is infallible.
Well thats kind of funny.
GH15 and MATT C,DRUGFREE4LIFE(Another PRO NATURAL BODYBUILDER) and many others
were all in agreement of the natural limit.
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That's the limit for the person with bad to average genetics, like yourself.
Coleman would be well over 200lbs naturally and much lower BF than you.
Why does this guy think he is the standard :-\
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I'm sure if you were to ask Laye Norton, a natural pro, he would also agree with us. I don't think he ever expects to get to 210 or 220 in contest shape. He is a very realistic and intelligent guy so I can't imagine him thinking that, even with his obvious self confidence and optimism.
Yep.
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Skip LaCour and Jeff Willet are just as natural as TA, and they drawf him.
Try and prove they are not natural TA, you can't. Again, they have just as much cred as you do regarding the issue.
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I'm sure if you were to ask Laye Norton, a natural pro, he would also agree with us. I don't think he ever expects to get to 210 or 220 in contest shape. He is a very realistic and intelligent guy so I can't imagine him thinking that, even with his obvious self confidence and optimism.
Now it's 220? I thought it was 200.
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You don`t even have calves.
Whatever you say is meaningless, you have not backed up anything.
What I say is law.
I am the biggest natural here and there is nothing you can do about it big ears.
Even Dante agrees that i easily destroy your emaciated ungainly excuse of a physique. You wish you were who I AM.....one of the select few genetic elite, but you are a commoner with a shoemakers body. I am a thoroughbred, Hahahahahahahahaha i dominate you.
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That's the limit for the person with bad to average genetics, like yourself.
Coleman would be well over 200lbs naturally and much lower BF than you.
Why does this guy think he is the standard :-\
Its EVERYONES STANDARD.
YOU HAVE 2 PROBODYBUILDERS, One who is Natural and one who Sells to Everyone and competed in the Mr. Olympia telling you this!
NOBODY CAN EVEN POST A PICTURE OF SOMEONE OVER 200 LBS RIPPED and UNDER 6 FT.
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(http://ironman.prosolutions.tv/contests/photos/36/Willet_267_6787.jpg)
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Its EVERYONES STANDARD.
YOU HAVE 2 PROBODYBUILDERS, One who is Natural and one who Sells to Everyone and competed in the Mr. Olympia telling you this!
NOBODY CAN EVEN POST A PICTURE OF SOMEONE OVER 200 LBS RIPPED and UNDER 6 FT.
(http://www.inbf.net/Tim-Martin-HVY.jpg)
Tim Martin
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Because the only standard is being a human being. The point being made is that there is no "genetic superiority" when it comes to muscle building.
hahahah...sorry. It's obvious that you all with poor genetics are just trying to make yourselves feel better. There are genetic superiors, they have evolved over time where necessary. For example, slaves in africa. Only the strongest survived, only the ones with the most muscle could pass on their genes. And that is only amplified over time. Then you have guys like TA on the other side of the standard deviation who end up with inferior genetics.
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Because the only standard is being a human being. The point being made is that there is no "genetic superiority" when it comes to muscle building.
There is no genetic superiority in building muscle?........................ ....Are you drunk?
So You and Ronnie Coleman have the exact same muscle building abilty hahahahahahahahaha
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(http://www.gmv.com.au/images/products/V-160DVDLG.jpg)
Mike O'Hearn
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hahahah...sorry. It's obvious that you all with poor genetics are just trying to make yourselves feel better. There are genetic superiors, they have evolved over time where necessary. For example, slaves in africa. Only the strongest survived, only the ones with the most muscle could pass on their genes. And that is only amplified over time. Then you have guys like TA on the other side of the standard deviation who end up with inferior genetics.
How can Matt C and I have poor Genetics when we look better than you?
Explain that one?
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How can Matt C and I have poor Genetics when we look better than you?
Explain that one?
hahahahahahahahahahah... ..thanks for the laugh.
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my calves are 17.25 right now and i never train them. hahaha!
Guess what?
You are fat.
You will see them shrink a few inches IF you ever diet down.
MY College professor had 22 inchers, of course she was 370 lbs.
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How can Matt C and I have poor Genetics when we look better than you?
Explain that one?
Just you may or may not have better genetics than another poster on getbig doesn't mean yours are good.
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Just you may or may not have better genetics than another poster on getbig doesn't mean yours are good.
Exactly my point.
NOBODY IS BETTER THAN ANYBODY.
Human are pretty much equal and there is a DEFINITE LIMIT.
You have PRO BODYBUILDERS telling you this, plenty of intelligent others saying this.
I have cornered a few of you to post pics and it reveals this.
Nobody can produce Lifetime naturals that Break the mold by a huge margin.
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Some are better at retaining their size after a layoff than others. ;)
PRINCE OF DELUSION!!!!
hahhahah
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Exactly my point.
NOBODY IS BETTER THAN ANYBODY.
Human are pretty much equal and there is a DEFINITE LIMIT.
You have PRO BODYBUILDERS telling you this, plenty of intelligent others saying this.
I have cornered a few of you to post pics and it reveals this.
Nobody can produce Lifetime naturals that Break the mold by a huge margin.
i agree its all about who busts there ass MORE in the gym than the next guy!
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the 190-192lb guy i seen in oneof the posts above is at 6-7% BF. it is possible naturally at the heights mentioned. if you get there naturally you are one lucky dude. that is where it will stop though.
If you are talking about me...I WAS 192 (at thursday morning weigh-in, BEFORE completing my total carb up)....and according to the calipers (9-site test) I WAS between the 5 - 6% range. I say between because I know there is variance with taking it.
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Well thats kind of funny.
GH15 and MATT C,DRUGFREE4LIFE(Another PRO NATURAL BODYBUILDER) and many others
were all in agreement of the natural limit.
There were only two guys in my class (heavyweight) that were over the 200lb mark I believe. And these guys were VERY peeled. I was shocked. I really would be shocked that in five years if we see the norm of heavyweight competitors being close to 210. Again, there ARE EXCEPTIONS....but I dont think its all that common.
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I can't get over this board. You guys are so out of touch with reality it's laughable.
You can measure a lot of things, but desire and work ethic can't be measured...and they seperate the men (guys UNDER 6' who weight JUST UNDER 200 pounds and have a bodyfat % of 5 or less...like me) from guys like Adonis, who can train all he wants but will never be more than 177 while "cut" and a fatass the rest of the year.
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(http://www.gmv.com.au/images/products/V-160DVDLG.jpg)
Mike O'Hearn
Dont give me the Mike O'Hearn shit.....he is NOT natural. I will give you a story of when he went overseas to film a b-movie and came back all small and shit. He then trained in the early mornings just so that people wouldnt see him till he got back to the weight he was prior to leaving for the film.
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I can't get over this board. You guys are so out of touch with reality it's laughable.
You can measure a lot of things, but desire and work ethic can't be measured...and they seperate the men (guys UNDER 6' who weight JUST UNDER 200 pounds and have a bodyfat % of 5 or less...like me) from guys like Adonis, who can train all he wants but will never be more than 177 while "cut" and a fatass the rest of the year.
soo true
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Mark Chapter 9, Verse 23:
Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."
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Prayer didn't save my uncle from dying of cancer at 38...but thanks for letting me know this.
Sorry about your uncle but the Lord is not some fairy godmother who grants man's every wish and whim. If we were as smart and/or powerful as the Lord, we would be God's level and not mere, frail mortal men. The pride of chaps/trolls like yourself is astounding.
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Sorry about your uncle but the Lord is not some fairy godmother who grants man's every wish and whim. If we were as smart and/or powerful as the Lord, we would be God's level and not mere, frail mortal men. The pride of chaps/trolls like yourself is astounding.
Right..... But the lords prair helps you build muscle.. Ronnie should have thanked the gods "test" and "gh for his O victories.
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yes,
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Reg Park weighed around 220 with abs. ::)
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And you are talking out of your ass as usual.
You OBVIOUSLY spent a great deal of time and effort on your pics. You probably shot pics for days using different lighting, sets and exposure until you stumbled across something that makes you look a little less pathetic.
Dante is 100% percent correct......You are a weak minded fool with a very myopic worldview. You are the exact opposite of what you think you are.
very well put.
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I have to disagree with you gh15 - i have a friend who is 22 and he is just one of these natural beasts - he is 5'11 and weighs in around 290 at i would say around 14-15% bodyfat. There is no way on gods green earth if he dieted down to 5-6% he would be under 200lbs - no f ckin way !!
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I have to disagree with you gh15 - i have a friend who is 22 and he is just one of these natural beasts - he is 5'11 and weighs in around 290 at i would say around 14-15% bodyfat. There is no way on gods green earth if he dieted down to 5-6% he would be under 200lbs - no f ckin way !!
::)
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245 cut to the bone, eh? Golly 210, that sure is something! Thanks for sharing!
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Right..... But the lords prair helps you build muscle.. Ronnie should have thanked the gods "test" and "gh for his O victories.
Of course prayer helps you build muscle Body88, are you dense?
With all the wars, disease, natural disasters, people starving to death and devastating things happening in the world today, I am quite sure that helping a mortal build muscle and win the Mr.O would be right on top of God's list >:(
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Of course prayer helps you build muscle Body88, are you dense?
With all the wars, disease, natural disasters, people starving to death and devastating things happening in the world today, I am quite sure that helping a mortal build muscle and win the Mr.O would be right on top of God's list >:(
ROLFMAO.
I like when atheists excel. Kind of shoots that whole power of prayer theory down. hahhah
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ROLFMAO.
I like when atheists excel. Kind of shoots that whole power of prayer theory down. hahhah
you don't have to believe in God for her to believe in you!
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you don't have to believe in God for her to believe in you!
SP, your girlfriend has logged onto your GB account account again. OTK time.
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SP, your girlfriend has logged onto your GB account account again. OTK time.
LOL, actually she thinks that I spend way too much time here. I tried to get her involved but alas she would have none of it.
like most of us, she does get a kick out of Vince G.
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::)
Whats so hard to beleive? That somebody could come in a damn site better than you dieted down and natural? You dont even have half decent genetics - just look at your forearms. Im talking about somebody who is just naturally huge - wrists are probably like twice the size of yours. Anyway - believe me or dont belive me - i dont give a sh it either way :P
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like most of us, she does get a kick out of Vince G.
That gets me thinking...if we get Vince G around to screw Jezebelle, do you think that would finally cure her craving for the ebony erection?
Whadda ya say VVV? You down?
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Whats so hard to beleive? That somebody could come in a damn site better than you dieted down and natural? You dont even have half decent genetics - just look at your forearms. Im talking about somebody who is just naturally huge - wrists are probably like twice the size of yours. Anyway - believe me or dont belive me - i dont give a sh it either way :P
hahhaha 290 at 14 percent bodyfat would have him BIGGER than most PROs Naturally. That would make him around 5`11 260 with 4 percent bodyfat Natural. ROFLMAO!!!!!!
You are a CLOWN.
Log off and start over now
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I have been adding 4-5 lbs of muscle pretty steadily each year so far, so everything is working out great.
I would put my max potential in the 190s and it may take years to get there, but that is about the limit for any lifetime consistently training natural.
why are you limiting yourself?
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why are you limiting yourself?
I am not limiting myself.
Just stating what the Human body can achieve for my height without drugs.
That mark has been the standard for over 100 years now as Sandow was this size, ripped and so are today`s top naturals.
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hahhaha 290 at 14 percent bodyfat would have him BIGGER than most PROs Naturally. That would make him around 5`11 260 with 4 percent bodyfat Natural. ROFLMAO!!!!!!
You are a CLOWN.
Log off and start over now
Haha whatever - if you and this GH guy seriously think you are / have the genetics to be the best it gets natural, then you need to see a shrink (or put the crack pipe down, as somebody would say)
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Haha whatever - if you and this GH guy seriously think you are / have the genetics to be the best it gets natural, then you need to see a shrink (or put the crack pipe down, as somebody would say)
So your friend is 5`11 and 260 lbs ripped Naturally, BIGGER than IFBB PROS who are ALL juicing?
Is that what you are saying?
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There were only two guys in my class (heavyweight) that were over the 200lb mark I believe. And these guys were VERY peeled. I was shocked. I really would be shocked that in five years if we see the norm of heavyweight competitors being close to 210. Again, there ARE EXCEPTIONS....but I dont think its all that common.
No one said it was common. Just not impossible
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No one said it was common. Just not impossible
Ultimately it's all down to genetics and very few people have the genetic make up to be shredded at 200 lbs at 5'10 or less.There are obviously exceptions but I would think that the genetic elite are likely to go into sports where they can make some serious money ie not bodybuilding-especialy natural bodybuilding!
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So your friend is 5`11 and 260 lbs ripped Naturally, BIGGER than IFBB PROS who are ALL juicing?
Is that what you are saying?
Show me where i said that? I think if he dieted down he would be around 220's somewhere, but this is irrelevnt as he wont ever diet down as he doesnt compete - he doesnt have the willpower to, as i dont, and probably doesnt want to stand oiled up in a thong like the majority of the population. Maybe he is up at 16-17% bf, i aint sure - im not someone that goes around testing other mens bodyfat - but he still fits in a size 34 waist jeans at that weight. I am talking about one of these natural freaks where everywhere you go people are like "jesus look at the size of that guy" etc. Look adonis, i dont have time to sit and have internet arguements like some of you guys, if you want to beleive that you are the natural limit then so be it. Im just saying that i know for a fact that you arent - you keep deluding yourself if you like.
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No one said it was common. Just not impossible
Bingo - exceptions !
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Ultimately it's all down to genetics and very few people have the genetic make up to be shredded at 200 lbs at 5'10 or less.There are obviously exceptions but I would think that the genetic elite are likely to go into sports where they can make some serious money ie not bodybuilding-especialy natural bodybuilding!
This probably the best point made. To get to that level of physical development, you don't only need to be genetically superior you also need to be mentally and emotionally superior to handle the grind of the BB lifestyle for 15 years to reach your potential.
There aren't many people on the earth that are going to even TRY to do that in BB because there is NO MONEY and a tremndous sacrafice of the quality of you life! Hell, most people aren't going even work out all all for 15 years let alone train and eat to that extreme.
GH and TA are right that most people will NEVER reach a certain level physically. But it not a physical limit necessarily--it's a mental limit to be even willing to try.
No, it's not that it's common--but it's not impossible.
You'd go financially broke and become emotionally bankrupt trying to get your body there naturally. It would take that much focus.
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Show me where i said that? I think if he dieted down he would be around 220's somewhere, but this is irrelevnt as he wont ever diet down as he doesnt compete - he doesnt have the willpower to, as i dont, and probably doesnt want to stand oiled up in a thong like the majority of the population. Maybe he is up at 16-17% bf, i aint sure - im not someone that goes around testing other mens bodyfat - but he still fits in a size 34 waist jeans at that weight. I am talking about one of these natural freaks where everywhere you go people are like "jesus look at the size of that guy" etc. Look adonis, i dont have time to sit and have internet arguements like some of you guys, if you want to beleive that you are the natural limit then so be it. Im just saying that i know for a fact that you arent - you keep deluding yourself if you like.
Here is what you said:
210 and growing
Getbig II
Posts: 311
Getbig!
Re: GH 15 Speaks the TRUTH on what is POSSIBLE!
« Reply #287 on: Today at 05:33:29 AM » Quote
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I have to disagree with you gh15 - i have a friend who is 22 and he is just one of these natural beasts - he is 5'11 and weighs in around 290 at i would say around 14-15% bodyfat. There is no way on gods green earth if he dieted down to 5-6% he would be under 200lbs - no f ckin way !!
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Now simply do the calculation and you get 260 lbs 5`11 at 4 percent bodyfat.
EVEN if he would be 220, that would make him BIGGER than ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER NATURALLY! That has never happened. Nobody has EVER been bigger than ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER NATURALLY! NOBODY. Not equal to or less than his height.
Furthermore, a 34 inch waist at 290 pounds is a PHYSCIAL IMPOSSIBILITY! NOBODY ON EARTH is 290 LBS with a 34 inch waist. NOBODY.
You speak of delusion......YOU ARE A DELUSION!
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This probably the best point made. To get to that level of physical development, you don't only need to be genetically superior you also need to be mentally and emotionally superior to handle the grind of the BB lifestyle for 15 years to reach your potential.
There aren't many people on the earth that are going to even TRY to do that in BB because there is NO MONEY and a tremndous sacrafice of the quality of you life! Hell, most people aren't going even work out all all for 15 years let alone train and eat to that extreme.
GH and TA are right that most people will NEVER reach a certain level physically. But it not a physical limit necessarily--it's a mental limit to be even willing to try.
No, it's not that it's common--but it's not impossible.
You'd go financially broke and become emotionally bankrupt trying to get your body there naturally. It would take that much focus.
You are wrong.
People have been trying to break this barrier for over 100 years now and nobody has yet.
Eugene Sandow was 4-6 percent Bodyfat around 190-195. That is what Todays Top LifeTime Naturals are today.
For 100 years now that Limit has stood the test of time. Nutrition has changed,supplements have been introduced,Training methods have all changed, But not one of these have produced anyone of significance over this standard.
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Here is what you said:
210 and growing
Getbig II
Posts: 311
Getbig!
Re: GH 15 Speaks the TRUTH on what is POSSIBLE!
« Reply #287 on: Today at 05:33:29 AM » Quote
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I have to disagree with you gh15 - i have a friend who is 22 and he is just one of these natural beasts - he is 5'11 and weighs in around 290 at i would say around 14-15% bodyfat. There is no way on gods green earth if he dieted down to 5-6% he would be under 200lbs - no f ckin way !!
Report to moderator Logged
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Now simply do the calculation and you get 260 lbs 5`11 at 4 percent bodyfat.
EVEN if he would be 220, that would make him BIGGER than ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER NATURALLY! That has never happened. Nobody has EVER been bigger than ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER NATURALLY! NOBODY. Not equal to or less than his height.
Furthermore, a 34 inch waist at 290 pounds is a PHYSCIAL IMPOSSIBILITY! NOBODY ON EARTH is 290 LBS with a 34 inch waist. NOBODY.
You speak of delusion......YOU ARE A DELUSION!
Ok Adonis - there is no point in debating anything with you as you think you know everything anyway. i think lee priest would have forearms like yours if he laid off the juice !! Take it easy
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Ok Adonis - there is no point in debating anything with you as you think you know everything anyway. i think lee priest would have forearms like yours if he laid off the juice !! Take it easy
Glad I could educate you.
That way next time you see "your friend", you will see him in a different light and begin to take notice that he is simply obese if he is 290 lbs Natural at 5`11.
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You are wrong.
People have been trying to break this barrier for over 100 years now and nobody has yet.
Eugene Sandow was 4-6 percent Bodyfat around 190-195. That is what Todays Top LifeTime Naturals are today.
For 100 years now that Limit has stood the test of time. Nutrition has changed,supplements have been introduced,Training methods have all changed, But not one of these have produced anyone of significance over this standard.
Do you have the recorded weights and BF% of every natural bber that has lived in the past 100 years? If not then STFU already.
Because you and a couple of your cronies haven't done it means it's impossible. ::)
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Triple bump.
When will the gravitysuit calculations and design be ready??
Still working on it.
Intense G-Force altering is the only thing that has such a dramatic effect on the human body short of Drugs or medication.
Altering G-Forces will cause you to waste away in a few days to just a few weeks in a Zero G enviroment. The inverse is true. Intense Positive G-Force will quickly get the human body to its Absolute limit. These are scientific certainties.
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Do you have the recorded weights and BF% of every natural bber that has lived in the past 100 years? If not then STFU already.
Because you and a couple of your cronies haven't done it means it's impossible. ::)
We have thousands and thousand and thousands of them and enough currently to make a scientific conclusion.
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I am not limiting myself.
Just stating what the Human body can achieve for my height without drugs.
That mark has been the standard for over 100 years now as Sandow was this size, ripped and so are today`s top naturals.
Yep, and time and tradition is always right. It's not like anyone ever breaks or shatters world records and exceeds what was thought humanly possible. No one's ever set new weightlifting records, or srpinting records, or any other kind related to human ability where it had been declared that we had reached the limit. mo sirree bob ::)
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Yep, and time and tradition is always right. It's not like anyone ever breaks or shatters world records and exceeds what was thought humanly possible. No one's ever set new weightlifting records, or srpinting records, or any other kind related to human ability where it had been declared that we had reached the limit. mo sirree bob ::)
Not to a HUGE varrying degree.
Most records are broken on 100ths of a second. Also, some records are a result of drug use. (Ben Johnson)
There is no huge Variation like the claims people in this thread are making.....But that is apples and oranges.
Technique and skill have A LOT to do with record breaking than body variance.
Here is the PROGRESSION of the MEN`s 100 METER World Records.
10.6 Don Lippincott USA Stockholm, Sweden July 6, 1912
Jackson Scholz USA September 16, 1920
10.4 Charlie Paddock USA Redlands, California, USA April 23, 1921
Eddie Tolan USA Stockholm, Sweden August 8, 1929
Copenhagen, Denmark August 25, 1929
10.3 Percy Williams CAN Toronto, Ontario, Canada August 9, 1930
Arthur Jonath GER Bochum, Germany July 5, 1932
Eddie Tolan USA Los Angeles, California, USA August 1, 1932
Ralph Metcalfe USA Los Angeles, California, USA August 1, 1932
Ralph Metcalfe USA Budapest, Hungary August 12, 1933
Eulace Peacock USA Oslo, Norway August 6, 1934
Chris Berger NED Amsterdam, Netherlands August 26, 1934
Ralph Metcalfe USA Osaka, Japan September 15, 1934
Dairen, China September 23, 1934
Takanori Yoshioka JPN Tokyo, Japan June 15, 1935
10.2 Jesse Owens USA Chicago, Illinois, USA June 20, 1936
Harold Davis USA Compton, California, USA June 6, 1941
Lloyd LaBeach PAN Fresno, California, USA May 15, 1948
Barney Ewell USA Evanston, Illinois, USA July 9, 1948
Emmanuel McDonald Bailey GBR Belgrade, Yugoslavia August 25, 1951
Heinz Fütterer FRG Yokohama, Japan October 31, 1954
Bobby Joe Morrow USA Houston, Texas, USA May 19, 1956
Ira Murchison USA Compton, California, USA June 1, 1956
Bobby Joe Morrow USA Bakersfield, California, USA June 22, 1956
Ira Murchison USA Los Angeles, California, USA June 29, 1956
Bobby Joe Morrow USA
10.1 Willie Williams USA Berlin, Germany August 3, 1956
Ira Murchison USA August 4, 1956
Leamon King USA Ontario, California, USA October 20, 1956
Santa Ana, California, USA October 27, 1956
Ray Norton USA San Jose, California, USA April 18, 1959
10.0 Armin Hary FRG Zürich, Switzerland June 21, 1960
Harry Jerome CAN Saskatoon, Canada July 15, 1960
Horacio Esteves VEN Caracas, Venezuela August 15, 1964
Bob Hayes USA Tokyo, Japan October 15, 1964
Jim Hines USA Modesto, California, USA May 27, 1967
Enrique Figuerola CUB Budapest, Hungary June 17, 1967
Paul Nash RSA Krugersdorp, South Africa April 2, 1968
Oliver Ford USA Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA May 31, 1968
Charles Greene USA Sacramento, California, USA June 20, 1968
Roger Bambuck FRA
9.9 Jim Hines USA
Ronnie Ray Smith USA
Charles Greene USA
Steve Williams USA Los Angeles, California, USA June 21, 1972
Eddie Hart USA Eugene, Oregon, USA July 1, 1972
Reynaud Robinson USA
Silvio Leonard CUB Ostrava, Czechoslovakia June 5, 1975
Steve Williams USA Siena, Italy July 16, 1975
Berlin, Germany August 22, 1975
Gainesville, Florida, USA March 27, 1976
Harvey Glance USA Columbia, South Carolina, USA April 3, 1976
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA May 1, 1976
Don Quarrie JAM Modesto, California, USA May 22, 1976
Electronic timing
Time Athlete Nat Location of race Date
9.95 Jim Hines USA Mexico City, Mexico October 14, 1968
9.93 Calvin Smith USA Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA July 3, 1983
Carl Lewis USA Rome, Italy August 30, 1987
Zurich, Switzerland August 17, 1988
9.92 Carl Lewis USA Seoul, South Korea September 24, 1988
9.90 Leroy Burrell USA New York, New York, USA June 14, 1991
9.86 Carl Lewis USA Tokyo, Japan August 25, 1991
9.85 Leroy Burrell USA Lausanne, Switzerland July 6, 1994
9.84 Donovan Bailey CAN Atlanta, Georgia, USA July 27, 1996
9.79 Maurice Greene USA Athens, Greece June 16, 1999
9.77 Asafa Powell JAM Athens, Greece June 14, 2005
Asafa Powell[2] JAM Gateshead, England June 11, 2006
Asafa Powell JAM Zurich, Switzerland August 18, 2006
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One second is a HUGE amount of time in sprinting Adam....try beating someone in a 100yd sprint when they have a one second head start....people dont realize how much it is till they try and race someone. Also...regarding the Ben Johnson thing....I do happen to know a certain person who was a prominant olympic decathlete.....and let me put it this way....Ben happened to get CAUGHT...if you catch my drift.
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Technology in equipment is also a very bigfactor on Athletic records as well.
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I have been adding 4-5 lbs of muscle pretty steadily each year so far, so everything is working out great.
I would put my max potential in the 190s and it may take years to get there, but that is about the limit for any lifetime consistently training natural.
Oh brother, what a pathetic little turd. ::)
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One second is a HUGE amount of time in sprinting Adam....try beating someone in a 100yd sprint when they have a one second head start....people dont realize how much it is till they try and race someone. Also...regarding the Ben Johnson thing....I do happen to know a certain person who was a prominant decathlete.....and let me put it this way....Ben happened to get CAUGHT...if you catch my drift.
I have ran track and cross-country and made regionals and States all 4 years when I did so I do know a bit about that sport.
Better equipment and technique have resulted in better times. As you can see, Since 1968 people have been running in the 9 second range. I read an article on this regarding shoes being the reason. I will see if I can find it.
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I have ran track and cross-country and made regionals and States all 4 years when I did so I do know a bit about that sport.
Better equipment and technique have resulted in better times. As you can see, Since 1968 people have been running in the 9 second range. I read an article on this regarding shoes being the reason. I will see if I can find it.
Thats fine...but most people do not realize it. As far as equipment goes....its the same with triathlon bikes. A doc at my clinic has a bike that I was blown away by. If I recall correctly, it didnt weigh more than 3 - 4lbs. Its absolutely freaky.
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Sorry about your uncle but the Lord is not some fairy godmother who grants man's every wish and whim. If we were as smart and/or powerful as the Lord, we would be God's level and not mere, frail mortal men. The pride of chaps/trolls like yourself is astounding.
Religious freaks like this will always say pray, and then when it doesn't work, God work in mysterious ways. There is no way to argue with them, they have to win or they couldnt' function in life. They don't have a true understanding of God, just some fairy tale version of him that they contrive to help them deal with their mental weaknesses.
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Not to a HUGE varrying degree.
Most records are broken on 100ths of a second. Also, some records are a result of drug use. (Ben Johnson)
There is no huge Variation like the claims people in this thread are making.....But that is apples and oranges.
Technique and skill have A LOT to do with record breaking than body variance.
Here is the PROGRESSION of the MEN`s 100 METER World Records.
So although in all other areas of physical endeavor we have been able to make gradual improvements on what was seen as the genetic limitation of man, that's utterly impossible in bodybuilding? Whatever man, if you want to limit yourself fine. I don't see the point in argueing it anymore. You never conceed that you're wrong even when you are clearly shown to be so, nor will you ever accept that there is anyone better at anything than you, so why bother argueing about it.
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So although in all other areas of physical endeavor we have been able to make gradual improvements on what was seen as the genetic limitation of man, that's utterly impossible in bodybuilding? Whatever man, if you want to limit yourself fine. I don't see the point in argueing it anymore. You never conceed that you're wrong even when you are clearly shown to be so, nor will you ever accept that there is anyone better at anything than you, so why bother argueing about it.
I have not shown to be wrong. You are making a blanket statement by saying that all progress has been a result of overcoming a genetic limitation.
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True Adonis I used to have respect for you because of the shape you got into for the Mr. Getbig... But after reading your posts you are a total jackass... you are ugly as a mule and uneducated, but make claims like this G-force suit in order to feel intelligent. You are a waste of skin.
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This is very interesting:
Wonder shoes to 'smash' Olympic records
The Sydney athletics track: Good vibrations?
Canadian scientists say they have designed revolutionary new running shoes that could smash world records at next month's Sydney Olympics.
The state-of-the-art shoes conserve energy by being adapted to suit each athlete and reduce energy-sapping leg vibrations, New Scientist magazine reports.
The new shoes could make a big difference for marathon runners
The shoes contain conventional materials that are altered to reduce vibrations and thus energy loss.
They were designed by Benno Nigg and James Wakeling - colleagues at the Human Performance Laboratory in the University of Calgary, Canada.
The new shoes emerged from studies of the damaging effects of vibrations on the body.
By manipulating the viscosity, elasticity and stiffness of the sole of a running shoe, the researchers believe some athletic performances can be boosted by up to 4%. In marathons, they think the technology could help runners chop as much as four minutes off their times.
World records predicted
"We think we will see some world records," said Professor Nigg.
A number of leading athletes are set to use the new shoes at the Olympics. They include the reigning Olympic 100 metres sprint champion, Canadian Donovan Bailey.
The Trinidadian sprinter Ato Boldon and British heptathlete Denise Lewis will also put the new shoes to the test next month, Reuters news agency reports.
The German sportswear and equipment maker Adidas-Salomon AG is planning a worldwide launch of the shoes in early 2001.
Professor Nigg said that on average about 30 top athletes who tested the shoes in the laboratory boosted their performance by 1.8%.
To mimic the leg vibrations caused by running, the researchers strapped runners on to a suspended bed with their feet held at a steady angle to a wall.
Dampening leg vibrations
The bed was then swung like a pendulum so the runner's heels struck the wall every two seconds. By measuring electrical activity, the researchers found that muscles naturally tighten to dampen vibrations in the legs, using energy.
Britain's Denise Lewis is set to test the new shoes in Sydney
"The muscles retune the natural frequency of the leg," said Dr Wakeling. This process stops the leg resonating when the foot strikes a surface.
The researchers then designed a shoe that would do the retuning using the least amount of energy.
Soft soles were best for dampening vibrations. But ideally, the shoes should be tuned to the vibrations of each individual by varying the blend of materials. It seems people's muscles resonate at different frequencies.
The new shoes may also reduce the wear and tear on athletes' legs caused by repetitive training.
Professor Nigg said the shoes might one day be adapted to make walking less physically tiring.
"If you do it right, an elderly person may be able to walk two miles rather than one and a half miles," he said.
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True Adonis I used to have respect for you because of the shape you got into for the Mr. Getbig... But after reading your posts you are a total jackass... you are ugly as a mule and uneducated, but make claims like this G-force suit in order to feel intelligent. You are a waste of skin.
Sorry you feel that way Benjamin,
NASA is currently working on this as well. Just thought you should know.
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Why have records not fallen?
According to Professor Michael Rennie, University of Nottingham there is almost no change in most world records since 1989. He believes modern athletes have reached optimal power to weight ratio. Bengt Saltin, from the Muscle Research Centre, Copenhagen believes the performance of endurance athletes can be improved with better training and nutrition. Others believe improved times will come with advancements in track surfaces and running shoes. Since 2000, 21 world marks have fallen in swimming's 26 individual Olympic events. Conversely, track and field has lowered only 10 marks in its 38 individual Olympic events during that same four-year span. Technical developments in swim wear have without question shaved times resulting in new records. When hundredths of a second separate the best swimmers this is no surprise. Despite new footwear innovations track and field has seen less activity with its world records. One reason why old track and field records have not been broken relates to the rules, which govern the use of footwear that blatantly alter performance.
In the United States, the United States of America Track and Field governing body, have a rule 71, which states:
"The purpose of shoes for competition is to give protection and stability to the feet and a firm grip to the ground. Such shoes, however, must not be constructed so as to give the competitor any additional assistance, and no spring or device of any kind may be incorporated in the shoes."
Shoes, which can no longer be classed as costume, become equipment and at the present time these are banned from International competitions. Acceptance will take time as the regulations change. What is likely to accelerate this change is the development of wearable technology.
Spira Shoes has patented WaveSpringª technology. The WaveSpring is a laterally stable, compact and lightweight spring that can be incorporated into the heel and to forefoot of the shoe providing cushioning and energy return. The lightweight shoes weigh 13.5 ounces and are made from leather with durable soles. Manufacturers claim the Spira Shoes prevent injuries and because the spring system is mechanical, the spring last the life of the shoe. The ZCoil
Michael Johnson still holds the men's 200 and 400m world records. His 400 time of 43.18 seconds is more than a second better than this year's top time in the world, 44.37 run by Jeremy Wariner. The track athlete was a firm believer in athleticism and although he attributed much of his track performance improvements to the use of the latest computerized monitors to measure his heartbeat, stride, starts, and posture, it was the body that won the medals. Ethiopian runner, Kenenisa Bekele has set two world records pre-Olympics, in the 5,000 and 10,000m, without benefit of a major technological breakthrough.
Competitors from less well off countries are unable to use technology and hence the full significance of performance improving technology has not been felt. The International Olympic Committee do try to mitigate the imbalance by offering monthly stipends and training abroad to promising athletes through the Olympic Solidarity Program and other assistant efforts.
Swimmers have tried for decades to gain an edge by such rudimentary means as shaving body hair to reduce friction in the water. Swimwear manufacturer Speedo took that concept to a new level when it designed the Fastskin. Modeled after a shark's skin, the full-body swimsuit reduces drag by up to 4 percent over other swimsuits, Speedo claims. When a swimmer enters the water, a thin layer of still water clings to the body. The Fastskin swimsuit breaks down that water much the way the fibers on a shark's skin does. FINA approved the Fastskin in November 1999, and more recently the upgraded version, Fastskin FSII. At the 2000 Olympics, 28 of 33 Olympic gold medalists wore the swimsuit. All but one of the men's world records has fallen since the suit debuted.
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I have ran track and cross-country and made regionals and States all 4 years when I did so I do know a bit about that sport.
Better equipment and technique have resulted in better times. As you can see, Since 1968 people have been running in the 9 second range. I read an article on this regarding shoes being the reason. I will see if I can find it.
This explains a lot. Here we have a cross-country runner holding himself up as the pinnacle of natural muscle development. That's like saying a Minivan is the pinnacle of automotive engineering.
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Faster than nature
This month's Olympic Games will showcase technology that makes athletes go faster and stay cooler.
Running shoes that deflect heat and sweat. Swimsuits that imitate the flow dynamics of shark skin or airplanes. "Cool" woolen clothing that can keep athletes comfortable between events in 100-degree heat. The Olympic Games in Athens promise to spotlight not only superb athletes, but also the latest sports science and technology.
The ancient Greeks, who used science to help organize their world, would probably approve. And while the debate continues about whether the impact of "smarter" body wear can be measured in gold medals, athletes and sporting-goods makers agree that if using such items makes athletes feel more comfortable and confident, it can help them achieve peak performance.
Olympic contenders already have been testing experimental versions of high-tech suits and shoes, especially in high-speed events like sprinting and freestyle swimming.
"I think technology is helping improve swimming times, but ultimately it's about the swimmer and what you feel best wearing," says Martina Moravcova, a silver medalist in 2000, who in Athens will wear a shoulder-to-ankle suit by Tyr Sport of Huntington Beach, Calif. "You can't judge if you are one-tenth of a second faster or slower, but you do feel much slicker than if your body wasn't covered."
SUITED FOR SPEED: Gold-medal sprinter Maurice Greene hopes to defend his Olympic title - with help from Adidas's 'Formotion' sprint suit.
The "long-john" swimsuits have become popular since Australian medalist Ian Thorpe made a big splash with his full-body Adidas JetConcept suit during the Sydney Olympics in 2000.
Mr. Thorpe, who won three gold and two silver medals in Sydney, reportedly was able to convince Games officials that the suit was not merely swimwear, but a crucial piece of equipment because of its hydrodynamic qualities.
Most freestyle swimmers are expected to wear some version of them in Athens, says Mary Wagner, spokeswoman for USA Swimming, the national body for competitive swimming based in Colorado Springs, Colo. "These suits aren't magic bullets," adds Steve Furniss, an Olympic medalist in 1972 and cofounder of Tyr. "But they can increase performance through lower drag coefficients."
To more effectively reduce drag, water must be kept attached to the body surface for as long as possible. When water hits the shoulders of a swimmer, it normally separates from the body, causing pressure drag, often the strongest type of drag. But placing ridges around the body in strategic places causes the swimsuit essentially to alter the water flow and keep it along the length of the body longer. While the ridges do increase friction drag a bit, they reduce pressure drag more than enough to compensate.
Tyr has applied research from the University of Buffalo to design its new Aqua Shift swimsuit, which it claims reduces drag by 10 percent by incorporating ridges called turbulators that look like hollow pipes. Adidas uses riblets over the back and buttocks to mimic the aerodynamics of an airplane, and Speedo's new Fastskin II suit mimics the tiny toothlike scales in shark skin, called dermal denticles, that are slanted toward the tail of the shark and help force water flow around its body, thus reducing friction.
Speedo's suit was designed by aerospace engineer Barry Bixler using computational fluid dynamics (CFD) software to simulate and test the suit's reduction of drag. CFD also has been used in other sports like the javelin.
In devising the new suits, companies must be careful to adhere to the rules of the Fédération Internationale de Natation, the world governing body for water sports, which state that no swimmer shall be permitted to use or wear any device - such as webbed gloves or flippers - that may aid in speed, buoyancy, or endurance during a competition. The long-john suits allowed so far simply represent swimwear, it has ruled.
The full body suits also compress a swimmer's body: They are so tight that it takes 10 minutes to put them on, says Slovakian swimmer Moravcova, who will compete in Athens in freestyle and butterfly events. And they stretch with wear, she adds, so she typically changes to a new suit every three to five elite competitions.
Another innovation for this Olympics: sprint suits for runners. In July, Adidas introduced its "Formotion." The company had studied top sprinters to see how they move, according to James Lamont of Adidas's innovation team. Then it designed the suit to complement those movements by applying compression in key areas with Lycra power bands. The bands are wrapped around the lower thigh just above the knee, for example, and encircle the leg to harness power, essentially by pushing the runner's body together so he or she can use the momentum coming from the legs in the upper body as well.
"We link that power through the back of the thigh following the abdominal muscles, through the real power center of the body, and drive the athlete forward," Mr. Lamont explains in a written statement.
Adidas's designers mapped the human body by computer to pinpoint where specific technologies were needed for support, ventilation, freedom of movement, and muscle control and guidance. They placed large Lycra bands across the lower back to stabilize the orientation of the hips to keep them square to the sprinting lane. They added power bands along the arms and shoulders to enhance forward arm swing and minimize nonlinear motion. And they put them across the back end of the athlete down to the hamstrings to help store and release energy. The Formotion also includes mesh inserts in the underarm to reduce the weight of the suit and ventilate that critical heat zone.
Five US runners wore the suit during the recent US trials, including reigning Olympic medal winner Maurice Greene, who is expected to wear the suit at the Athens games as well. 0Kim Collins, a 100-meter sprinter who hopes to win the first Olympic medal for the tiny Caribbean island of St. Kitts and Nevis, has been testing the suit since the 2003 track and field world championships in Paris, where he won the gold medal in his event.
Although sprint- and swimwear typically attract a lot of attention at the Olympics because of the sports' popularity, other sports are also benefiting from high-tech gear.
For example, Canada's national rowing team will wear a new red-and-white, hooded "Swift Suit." The unisuit, designed in Nike's sport research lab, uses technology in its seams to support the motion of rowing. "The unisuits are intended to reduce even the smallest amount of drag so the team can maximize their performance," says Raegen Salchow, the suit's designer at Nike Global, in a written statement.
Working closely with rowers, the designers at Nike pushed the seams in the suit to the front in order to make it as aerodynamic as possible. Nike claims the hood helps eliminate drag by 3 percent, equivalent to eight feet in a 2,000-meter race.
The Swift Suit also incorporates improved moisture-wicking technology, called Nike Dri-Fit, to help sustain body temperature. It draws sweat away from the skin and moves it to the outside of the fabric, where it evaporates, and the Dri-Fit panels are mesh so they breathe.
In addition, the rowing uniforms use a "No Sew" laminating technology in the leg hems that puts the fabric together without the bulky seams of sewn garments. This also helps reduce chaffing and irritation, Nike claims.
One of the biggest challenges Athens poses is heat. With sweltering temperatures routinely topping 100 degrees in the summer, several companies are developing "beat-the-heat" athletic wear, some of it for events, some for warm-ups, and some just for hanging out in the Olympic Village.
For example: Adidas is applying to clothing the ClimaCool technology it pioneered in running shoes. Using three-dimensional fabric construction, the company has come up with jerseys and other garments that use the latest techniques and fibers to absorb sweat and conduct heat away from the body. To improve the cooling aspects of ClimaCool, Adidas used computer technology to map the body's sweat zones, and then placed ventilation in those zones.
Strange as it may sound, the Australian Olympic Team hopes to conquer the heat with wool. The nation's sheep-centric powerhouse, Woolmark Co., will provide all-natural wool garments that breathe, absorb moisture, and stay dry against the skin.
Because shoes trap so much heat in track and field, research continues to make them more breathable. Adidas, for one, has added venting under the foot through the midsole. And by placing polyester and polyurethane film under the ball of the foot, the company has developed new shoes that reflect away different wavelengths of light and heat coming from the surface of the running track, even before they get absorbed in the shoe. The film will be used in shoes for long-distance races and the marathon.
Consumers eventually will see derivatives of high-tech athletic wear in sporting goods stores.
Most items produced for the Olympics basically are a giveaway, says Tom Doyle, vice president of information and research at the National Sporting Goods Association in Mount Prospect, Ill. He adds that recognition of the item helps in sales of consumer versions later. The association figures retail sales of sporting goods will rise 2 percent in 2004 to $46.6 billion.
Only a small fraction of that is swimsuits and other gear for world-class athletes, he adds.
Olympic technology
• Pole Vault: At the 1896 Olympics in Athens, a bamboo pole was used to set the vaulting record of 10 feet, 6 inches. Between 1942 and 1957, aluminum, steel, and fiberglass poles were tried. Fiberglass won out, increasing the indoor world record height to 20 feet, 2 inches in 1993.
• Sprint: Wooden starting blocks replaced toe grooves at the 1948 London games. (In ancient Greece, runners took off from a standing position and were flogged if they started too soon.) Modern metal starting blocks contain micro-controllers to prevent false starts.
• Marathon: Wedge-heeled Nike sneakers at 1972 US Olympic trials began the modern running-shoe era.
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Well its obvious that GH15 hates america and the people here...So my guess is its someone over in the persian gulf area...
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Though reluctant due to the hostile crowd here I figured I'd break my silence and chime in on this thread. I'm a fairly accomplished natural BB that's won a ton of natural shows, made the cover of Natural Physique Magazine, worked at a supplement distribution warehouse, promoted Natural shows and was a judge for the ANBC. I'm a small framed guy, 5'8", weighed 100 lbs as a sophomore in high school and decided to weight train to put on some weight. I graduated HS at 128lbs in 1985 and by 1992 was competing at the top of the middleweight class all natural. At my best contest peak I weighed in at 174 and was probably 177 on stage in the pic you see below at the 1992 Southern States. The before picture was when I was a junior in HS and had a year of lifting under my belt. I put on 60lbs of muscle in 8 years of training, all natural. I was curious to see how big I could get and set a goal of trying to reach a bodyweight of 200lbs. Working at a supplement warehouse I was able to try every supplement available on the market, I've never used steroids or anything you couldn't buy in a GNC or anything banned by any natural organization at the time(aka ephedra now banned for example). I struggled and couldn't seem to get over 197 which was my max weight after using creatine for awhile. Creatine pushed me out of the upper 180's and into the upper 190's. Only by overeating did I actually hit 202 for a single day but felt like crap and very fat at 12% bf. I was way more comfortable in the 190's and around 10% offseason and it was a weight I could easily maintain. As a natural it was very easy for me to lose muscle when dieting for a show. Luckily I stayed pretty lean in the offseason and never had to diet too long. As far as GH 15's comments, honestly I haven't met any natural BB under 5'10 at 5-6% BF over 200 lbs. I tried myself and could not do it, the only way I broke 200 was to increase my bodyfat. Somebody above mentioned Ernie Richards and I knew him personally and believe he's natural.
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerBefore.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/Rammer600x800.jpg)
Me at 17 yrs old 1 year of training>>>>>>>>Me at 26 yrs old winning the Middleweights at the Southern States.
If you'd like to see what I looked like in competition and off season feel free to check out the videos I've uploaded to Youtube here:
os?user=Karialec
There are 2 pages of videos so click through.
All my guest posing appearances are how I looked in the offseason at about 10% bf and a weight in the 190's. My bf in competition ranged from 8% at the Intracoastal to 6% at the USA and Southern States.
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Though reluctant due to the hostile crowd here I figured I'd break my silence and chime in on this thread. I'm a fairly accomplished natural BB that's won a ton of natural shows, made the cover of Natural Physique Magazine, worked at a supplement distribution warehouse, promoted Natural shows and was a judge for the ANBC. I'm a small framed guy, 5'8", weighed 100 lbs as a sophomore in high school and decided to weight train to put on some weight. I graduated HS at 128lbs in 1985 and by 1992 was competing at the top of the middleweight class all natural. At my best contest peak I weighed in at 174 and was probably 177 on stage in the pic you see below at the 1992 Southern States. The before picture was when I was a junior in HS and had a year of lifting under my belt. I put on 60lbs of muscle in 8 years of training, all natural. I was curious to see how big I could get and set a goal of trying to reach a bodyweight of 200lbs. Working at a supplement warehouse I was able to try every supplement available on the market, I've never used steroids or anything you couldn't buy in a GNC or anything banned by any natural organization at the time(aka ephedra now banned for example). I struggled and couldn't seem to get over 197 which was my max weight after using creatine for awhile. Creatine pushed me out of the upper 180's and into the upper 190's. Only by overeating did I actually hit 202 for a single day but felt like crap and very fat at 12% bf. I was way more comfortable in the 190's and around 10% offseason and it was a weight I could easily maintain. As a natural it was very easy for me to lose muscle when dieting for a show. Luckily I stayed pretty lean in the offseason and never had to diet too long. As far as GH 15's comments, honestly I haven't met any natural BB under 5'10 at 5-6% BF over 200 lbs. I tried myself and could not do it, the only way I broke 200 was to increase my bodyfat. Somebody above mentioned Ernie Richards and I knew him personally and believe he's natural.
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerBefore.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/Rammer600x800.jpg)
Me at 17 yrs old 1 year of training>>>>>>>>Me at 26 yrs old winning the Middleweights at the Southern States.
If you'd like to see what I looked like in competition and off season feel free to check out the videos I've uploaded to Youtube here:
os?user=Karialec
There are 2 pages of videos so click through.
All my guest posing appearances are how I looked in the offseason at about 10% bf and a weight in the 190's. My bf in competition ranged from 8% at the Intracoastal to 6% at the USA and Southern States.
VERY IMPRESSIVE physique!
I want to commend you on a good physique and the ability to come out behind the shadows and shed the TRUTH on this matter as I have and a few others.
Natural bodybuilding,I believe, starts with truth. You have to know what is obtainable so you don`t overshoot your goal. Most people do so by overeating.
I hope all the doubters are taking notes because you are seeing the truth right before your eyes. I hope you continue to stick around and post and keep THE TRUTH alive!
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Though reluctant due to the hostile crowd here I figured I'd break my silence and chime in on this thread. I'm a fairly accomplished natural BB that's won a ton of natural shows, made the cover of Natural Physique Magazine, worked at a supplement distribution warehouse, promoted Natural shows and was a judge for the ANBC. I'm a small framed guy, 5'8", weighed 100 lbs as a sophomore in high school and decided to weight train to put on some weight. I graduated HS at 128lbs in 1985 and by 1992 was competing at the top of the middleweight class all natural. At my best contest peak I weighed in at 174 and was probably 177 on stage in the pic you see below at the 1992 Southern States. The before picture was when I was a junior in HS and had a year of lifting under my belt. I put on 60lbs of muscle in 8 years of training, all natural. I was curious to see how big I could get and set a goal of trying to reach a bodyweight of 200lbs. Working at a supplement warehouse I was able to try every supplement available on the market, I've never used steroids or anything you couldn't buy in a GNC or anything banned by any natural organization at the time(aka ephedra now banned for example). I struggled and couldn't seem to get over 197 which was my max weight after using creatine for awhile. Creatine pushed me out of the upper 180's and into the upper 190's. Only by overeating did I actually hit 202 for a single day but felt like crap and very fat at 12% bf. I was way more comfortable in the 190's and around 10% offseason and it was a weight I could easily maintain. As a natural it was very easy for me to lose muscle when dieting for a show. Luckily I stayed pretty lean in the offseason and never had to diet too long. As far as GH 15's comments, honestly I haven't met any natural BB under 5'10 at 5-6% BF over 200 lbs. I tried myself and could not do it, the only way I broke 200 was to increase my bodyfat. Somebody above mentioned Ernie Richards and I knew him personally and believe he's natural.
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerBefore.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/Rammer600x800.jpg)
Me at 17 yrs old 1 year of training>>>>>>>>Me at 26 yrs old winning the Middleweights at the Southern States.
If you'd like to see what I looked like in competition and off season feel free to check out the videos I've uploaded to Youtube here:
os?user=Karialec
There are 2 pages of videos so click through.
All my guest posing appearances are how I looked in the offseason at about 10% bf and a weight in the 190's. My bf in competition ranged from 8% at the Intracoastal to 6% at the USA and Southern States.
Good physique but there is room for improvement. For instance if you trained triceps you would probably be 5-10 pounds heavier. ;)
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Alexxx,
When are you going to grow up and realize?
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You look good Rammer, thanks for the post.
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Alexxx,
When are you going to grow up and realize?
I won't settle for second best. ;)
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I won't settle for second best. ;)
how do you know...right now you're at 6th best, by the time you make it to second best you might be happy with it.
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Good physique but there is room for improvement. For instance if you trained triceps you would probably be 5-10 pounds heavier. ;)
Every physique has room for improvement. Alexxx, I wish I could have packed 2.5 lbs onto each tricep and my calves too, LOL. What I lacked in tricep size I made up for in cross striations, can't say the same for my calves though ;).
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerTri.jpg)
And to the others that complimented my physique, thanks for the kind words. Kind words don't come easy round these parts.
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Every physique has room for improvement. Alexxx, I wish I could have packed 2.5 lbs onto each tricep and my calves too, LOL. What I lacked in tricep size I made up for in cross striations, can't say the same for my calves though ;).
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerTri.jpg)
And to the others that complimented my physique, thanks for the kind words. Kind words don't come easy round these parts.
So how can it be the natural limit if there is till room for improvement? You would probably pass 200 pounds at 5% if you just focused and gotten progressively stronger on exercises.
There are no limits. I am 220 at less then 10 % myself. :)
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There are limits or at least I felt I was at my natural limit, I had put over 60lbs of muscle on my ectomorphic frame and my natural tendency was to be skinny and I felt my body was fighting to get back to that state. I was stuck at a certain bodyweight for close to a year, my strength went up a little but no major gains. Then creatine came out and suddenly I gained 10 lbs and my strength went way up. Then I hit another ceiling around 197 and just couldn't get over the 200 lb hump without raising my BF. At that point it was extremely hard to maintain that size and strength. Any missed meals or workouts cost me bodyweight. It was too hard to maintain and since BB was a hobby to me, not worth the effort. I was happy with the way I looked and felt at 195 and was happy to stay there.
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There are limits or at least I felt I was at my natural limit, I had put over 60lbs of muscle on my ectomorphic frame and my natural tendency was to be skinny and I felt my body was fighting to get back to that state. I was stuck at a certain bodyweight for close to a year, my strength went up a little but no major gains. Then creatine came out and suddenly I gained 10 lbs and my strength went way up. Then I hit another ceiling around 197 and just couldn't get over the 200 lb hump without raising my BF. At that point it was extremely hard to maintain that size and strength. Any missed meals or workouts cost me bodyweight. It was too hard to maintain and since BB was a hobby to me, not worth the effort. I was happy with the way I looked and felt at 195 and was happy to stay there.
Do you think think you could have broken 200 lbs. if you had had more mesomorphic tendencies?
-
Though reluctant due to the hostile crowd here I figured I'd break my silence and chime in on this thread. I'm a fairly accomplished natural BB that's won a ton of natural shows, made the cover of Natural Physique Magazine, worked at a supplement distribution warehouse, promoted Natural shows and was a judge for the ANBC. I'm a small framed guy, 5'8", weighed 100 lbs as a sophomore in high school and decided to weight train to put on some weight. I graduated HS at 128lbs in 1985 and by 1992 was competing at the top of the middleweight class all natural. At my best contest peak I weighed in at 174 and was probably 177 on stage in the pic you see below at the 1992 Southern States. The before picture was when I was a junior in HS and had a year of lifting under my belt. I put on 60lbs of muscle in 8 years of training, all natural. I was curious to see how big I could get and set a goal of trying to reach a bodyweight of 200lbs. Working at a supplement warehouse I was able to try every supplement available on the market, I've never used steroids or anything you couldn't buy in a GNC or anything banned by any natural organization at the time(aka ephedra now banned for example). I struggled and couldn't seem to get over 197 which was my max weight after using creatine for awhile. Creatine pushed me out of the upper 180's and into the upper 190's. Only by overeating did I actually hit 202 for a single day but felt like crap and very fat at 12% bf. I was way more comfortable in the 190's and around 10% offseason and it was a weight I could easily maintain. As a natural it was very easy for me to lose muscle when dieting for a show. Luckily I stayed pretty lean in the offseason and never had to diet too long. As far as GH 15's comments, honestly I haven't met any natural BB under 5'10 at 5-6% BF over 200 lbs. I tried myself and could not do it, the only way I broke 200 was to increase my bodyfat. Somebody above mentioned Ernie Richards and I knew him personally and believe he's natural.
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerBefore.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/Rammer600x800.jpg)
Me at 17 yrs old 1 year of training>>>>>>>>Me at 26 yrs old winning the Middleweights at the Southern States.
If you'd like to see what I looked like in competition and off season feel free to check out the videos I've uploaded to Youtube here:
os?user=Karialec
There are 2 pages of videos so click through.
All my guest posing appearances are how I looked in the offseason at about 10% bf and a weight in the 190's. My bf in competition ranged from 8% at the Intracoastal to 6% at the USA and Southern States.
needs to be quoted one more time
::)
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Do you think think you could have broken 200 lbs. if you had had more mesomorphic tendencies?
Probably but I could never have competed at 200 lbs. I never even competed above 180lbs.
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Probably but I could never have competed at 200 lbs. I never even competed above 180lbs.
Why do YOU think people always claim to have "known someone in High School, that was ripped, over 200 Lbs and played on the football team"?
Do you wonder,like I do, where are all these 200 plus ripped Lifetime Naturals walking around? I haven`t seen any. You?
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Why do YOU think people always claim to have "known someone in High School, that was ripped, over 200 Lbs and played on the football team"?
Do you wonder,like I do, where are all these 200 plus ripped Lifetime Naturals walking around? I haven`t seen any. You?
Not in my high school! Anyhow, I have seen some natural mesomorphs that had untapped BB potential. I knew a guy in college, about 5'7", 180lbs, who was a mesomorph, had huge separated quads, big arms, lats and pecs and never lifted weights in his life. He windsurfed and played soccer, that's it for physical exercise. He probably could have beaten some longtime competitors if he just learned how to pose but he was not close to 200 lbs or 6% BF. That guy had potential and I'm sure if he took up bodybuilding he would have excelled. I've always marveled at sprinters and how they have physiques rivaling BBers when they train so differently. I mean this guy could probably kick my butt on stage:
(http://runningmovies.com/image/BecomingSprinter.gif)
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"Any physique that everyone believes is natural, is a natural physique that isn't worth having."
Skip La Cour
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Juicer.
you dont know that...and there is no proof he does.
i'm not saying that i know for certain that he is clean...but after speaking to him a few times and reading most of his stuff i would guess that he actually is clean.
i never thought he took anything as far as androgens but i used to think he took atleast took some hgh, insulin and pre contest diueretics...he swears he does not...i believe him.
if you ever met skip in person his level of muscularity is not at all overwhelming...people would not look at him and automatically think juicer....at his best he is extremely conditioned, dry, with impressive muscle seperation and detail...he presents that illusion on stage that he is bigger than he really is...especially when he is standing next to some of these other natural guys.
you should also know about skip is that he is extremely intellegent when it comes to training and nutrition...especially the science of the precontest diet...i mean the guy really knows his shit.
he has also earned and turned down his ifbb pro card...if he was a juicer he could have accepted his pro card and kicked up his doseages to put on the extra muscle he would need as a pro...he turned it down because he didnt want to go that route.
skip is one of the very few natural guys who actually looks impressive on stage...he is a guy that naturals should look up to and try to learn from rather than throwing accusations at him.
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skip is also genitically gifted...he was never very wide...still isnt...but check out early pics of him back when he just started training.
here is a shot of him from 1990 after only training for 1 year....genitically gifted.
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Ok three things....to answer someone's question Adonis says he is 5'11" so the thread doesn't really apply to him.
2) There is no way in hell that the muscle mania guy weighs 211 if he is 5'8".
3) Nobody should disagree with GH15 again unless they can provide a pic of a natural under 5'10 that weighs over 200lbs at 5% BF.
And once somebody does, you call the person a juicer and say "there is no way in hell".
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Well its obvious that GH15 hates america and the people here...So my guess is its someone over in the persian gulf area...
this board never stop to amaze me.
moron,, do you really think i hate usa? the country that saved this world from,,god burn his soul- hitler,,the country that will save this world from the loonaateek iranians.
i LOVE usa more than i love myself,,,i love everything it represents,,i think americans are the hardest,,most devoted workers you will ever find,,i think they are good people from within..they fuckin get killed daily so others can taste democracy.
ofcourse i dont like many things in usa,,,sex between teachers and 13 year old students,,,whores that have no talent yet by sleeping around get publicity and think they can sing,,,i dont like the fact that there is no more music only crap,,,i dont like that many girls in usa are so easy to get because they are size and muscle whores...it fucks up their poor kids life to see a diff guy that uses their mom every month,,dont like that women in usa have 3 kids from 3 diff hubbys and they are only 35,,,and the list goes on and on,,
BUT,, this is democracy,,,i prefer this 10000 times over the loonaateek from iran having atomic bomb blowing the world up.
thank god for usa!
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skip is also genitically gifted...he was never very wide...still isnt...but check out early pics of him back when he just started training.
here is a shot of him from 1990 after only training for 1 year....genitically gifted.
Why did he loose his hair so quickly then?I know he shaves it clean but there was some rapid baldness that came out of no where , how does he explain that?
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Who says TA is natural does he have any proof of this,Skip la Cour has proved his natural status what else does the bloke have to do, Lie detector tests,Drug tests his bodyfat is a good margin lower than TA and would outweigh him by 40 pounds and is shorter.Monster ownage.
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Who says TA is natural does he have any proof of this,Skip la Cour has proved his natural status what else does the bloke have to do, Lie detector tests,Drug tests his bodyfat is a good margin lower than TA and would outweigh him by 40 pounds and is shorter.Monster ownage.
like skip says,
"Any physique that everyone believes is natural, is a natural physique that isn't worth having."
skip is accused because he actually looks like something on stage.
as far as ta's natural status...i think we can safely take his word on that. ;D
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this board never stop to amaze me.
moron,, do you really think i hate usa? the country that saved this world from,,god burn his soul- hitler,,the country that will save this world from the loonaateek iranians.
i LOVE usa more than i love myself,,,i love everything it represents,,i think americans are the hardest,,most devoted workers you will ever find,,i think they are good people from within..they fuckin get killed daily so others can taste democracy.
ofcourse i dont like many things in usa,,,sex between teachers and 13 year old students,,,whores that have no talent yet by sleeping around get publicity and think they can sing,,,i dont like the fact that there is no more music only crap,,,i dont like that many girls in usa are so easy to get because they are size and muscle whores...it fucks up their poor kids life to see a diff guy that uses their mom every month,,dont like that women in usa have 3 kids from 3 diff hubbys and they are only 35,,,and the list goes on and on,,
BUT,, this is democracy,,,i prefer this 10000 times over the loonaateek from iran having atomic bomb blowing the world up.
thank god for usa!
Gh15 i like your posts, i really do but 1 in 5 of your posts are talking about american women being whores, college americans being spoiled ect...Its not like you posts these things once...You are always posting about how fucked up us people over here are....You can call me a moron all you want...But lets face it, do you think your better then the people you metion all the time just because you sell drugs to them...You are part of the problem, not a solution...
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One thing I think about gh15, who lives in the US, is that is rude as all hell to live in someone's country and criticize it.
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I can't vouch for Skip's natural status today but I met him at the first Team Universe and believe he was natural at that time. I hung out with him quite a lot and didn't see anything suspicious in his hotel room. Of course this was when he was new on the scene and before pro-hormones came out. I was amazed at his thickness but his physique is lacking in other ways like aesthetics,balance and symmetry.
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I can't vouch for Skip's natural status today but I met him at the first Team Universe and believe he was natural at that time. I hung out with him quite a lot and didn't see anything suspicious in his hotel room. Of course this was when he was new on the scene and before pro-hormones came out. I was amazed at his thickness but his physique is lacking in other ways like aesthetics,balance and symmetry.
if i remember correctly i do think that skip has said that he has used pro hormones in the past.
i agree that his physique does have holes...mostly he needs more width... i'm sure if he was juicing we would see a more drastic difference from the time he started training and competing to how he looks today...he has been training and competing for about 16 or 17 years...the gains he has made are nothing compared to guys like jay, dorian, ect...but still when he is at his best his thickness and level of conditioning is pretty damn impressive...especially when you compare him to these other natural bodybuilders.
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I can't vouch for Skip's natural status today but I met him at the first Team Universe and believe he was natural at that time. I hung out with him quite a lot and didn't see anything suspicious in his hotel room. Of course this was when he was new on the scene and before pro-hormones came out. I was amazed at his thickness but his physique is lacking in other ways like aesthetics,balance and symmetry.
Rammer,
Who is the greatest Lifetime Natural that you have ever met or seen and who do you think is the greatest Lifetime Natural Bodybuilder EVER?
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Rammer,
Who is the greatest Lifetime Natural that you have ever met or seen and who do you think is the greatest Lifetime Natural Bodybuilder EVER?
according to vince g this guy...i couldnt tell u his name...is the most dominant natural...and he is considered to be the ronnie coleman of natural bodybuilding...lol
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Rammer,
Who is the greatest Lifetime Natural that you have ever met or seen and who do you think is the greatest Lifetime Natural Bodybuilder EVER?
I really don't know because I really don't know who is lifetime natural. I saw some impressive guys at the Team Universe in '94 but I don't know if they are lifetime natural or just were able to pass the drug test that day. I stopped competing at the National level after the Team Universe because the drug testing just wasn't rigid enough. I promoted a natural show in Florida and one of the guys that failed my drug test 3 months earlier was on stage in my class at the Team Universe. Adonis, I don't follow the sport as much as I did in the past so I don't know all the hot names at the moment especially among naturals. Back in the 90's the guys that impressed me the most (if they were natural) were Yohnnie Shambourger, Chris Faildo and Ron Coleman. Not Ronnie Coleman but Ron Coleman pictured below:
(http://musclememory.com/images/current/ColemanRon.jpg)
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in my opinion skip is a guy that naturals should look up to...instead they will talk shit about him and swear that he is juiced... he has taken a natural physique to the point where he can actually be impressive on stage... becuase of that he gets hated on.
i would like to see a picture of any natural bodylbuilder who even comes close to skip...there are none who carry skips thickness and at the same time achieve his level of conditioning on stage.
&mode=related&search=
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Ive seen skips training videos. INTENSE !!!!! the guy is an animal. If he was indeed using, he would be pro. So in other words skip needs to load those plungers and get on!
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Ive seen skips training videos. INTENSE !!!!! the guy is an animal. If he was indeed using, he would be pro. So in other words skip needs to load those plungers and get on!
yes he trains with much intensity and he knows his shit.
remember that he did win his pro card at the team u but didnt accept it....if he was juicing or planning to juice he would have taken his pro card and competed in the ifbb.
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(s)adonis, the only thing you need concern yourself with is the fact that you will NEVER, EVER look anything like lacour, ron coleman or yonnie shambourger.
in fact i'd go so far to say you wouldn't achieve any of these builds even if you were to take anabolics.
consider this your wake-up call.
don't worry, there's always pilates.
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(s)adonis, the only thing you need concern yourself with is the fact that you will NEVER, EVER look anything like lacour, ron coleman or yonnie shambourger.
in fact i'd go so far to say you wouldn't achieve any of these builds even if you were to take anabolics.
consider this your wake-up call.
don't worry, there's always pilates.
I think you underestimate the effectiveness of anabolics
ALL DRUGS
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I think you underestimate the effectiveness of anabolics
ALL DRUGS
see Venon Vince Goodrum
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One thing I think about gh15, who lives in the US, is that is rude as all hell to live in someone's country and criticize it.
not only that...He stated many times that american high school and college kids are his biggest buyers...He also stated that he won't let you place an order unless its over $1000...His words were he wants these kids to get others to put their money together for one big order...He is corupting the youth of america but loves the country...I guess he loves this country because its making him a living...I just believed that morally he is severaly flawed if he thinks what he is doing to american society is better then an american "whore"...
His posts are informative though...I'll give him that...
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not only that...He stated many times that american high school and college kids are his biggest buyers...He also stated that he won't let you place an order unless its over $1000...His words were he wants these kids to get others to put their money together for one big order...He is corupting the youth of america but loves the country...I guess he loves this country because its making him a living...I just believed that morally he is severaly flawed if he thinks what he is doing to american society is better then an american "whore"...
His posts are informative though...I'll give him that...
You have it all wrong. GH15 does not see the issue of hormones as a moral one. It is simply a business. I do not see drug use as evil either. I only see it as unfair in competition or unfair when the rules of the game specifically state their non-usage.
I think people should have the right to fuck themselves up. I do not care. In time the problems take care of themselves as natures Evolutionary law will dictate.
Wombat is drug use a moral issue with you, seeing as you champion Pro Bodybuilding from time to time? Or do you just turn a blind eye to hypocrisy?
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I think people should have the right to f**k themselves up. I do not care.
A consenting, informed adult - yes. A kid - no.
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A consenting, informed adult - yes. A kid - no.
What does it matter?
Anyone who uses without knowledge is an idiot and deserves whatever they get, regardless of age.
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What does it matter?
Anyone who uses without knowledge is an idiot and deserves whatever they get, regardless of age.
Some benevolence might suit His Majesty.
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Some benevolence might suit His Majesty.
They had a choice to use drugs or not. Why fault the person selling them? If they are dumb enough to buy and use them, then they deserve whatever happens to them.
They should take responsibility for their actions.
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What does it matter?
Anyone who uses without knowledge is an idiot and deserves whatever they get, regardless of age.
most moronic statement in the history of getbig.
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They had a choice to use drugs or not. Why fault the person selling them? If they are dumb enough to buy and use them, then they deserve whatever happens to them.
They should take responsibility for their actions.
when I was a child I acted like a child.....
if you think for one minute that the average teen ager thinks about the consequences of his or her actions when it comes to roids your an idiot.
God, I'm glad I never did them but I'm even gladder I don't play the whole "holier than thou" shit like you and some others do....especially here. It shows your maturity level.
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when I was a child I acted like a child.....
if you think for one minute that the average teen ager thinks about the consequences of his or her actions when it comes to roids your an idiot.
God, I'm glad I never did them but I'm even gladder I don't play the whole "holier than thou" shit like you and some others do....especially here. It shows your maturity level.
Im playing the Natural Selection shit. We salute the improvement of the human genome
by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
http://www.darwinawards.com/
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hey ta...since you are natural what is your opinion of skip la cour?
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hey ta...since you are natural what is your opinion of skip la cour?
Overdosed on Prohormones.
Here is a true story. 4 years ago I talked to Dave Palumbo on instant messenger, his name shares his moniker on here.......
He said Skip LaCour was buying growth hormone and said it in a very rude way. He would not come off of it either.
Now I am skeptical about him saying all of that, but Dave used to or still does deal in Growth Hormone so he may have had some inside knowledge.
I have no idea about the truth of all of that one way or the other.
Skip is thick boned and very narrow. HE is more illusion than anything. His short,thick,narrow bones and short muscle bellies filled out easy as those types tend to do so.
Either way, the man works hard and is pretty miserable given the diets I have seen. Very miserable unnecessarily. No idea why he chooses to do that to himself and make it so difficult. He barely eats whole meals and his idea of cheating is using ketchup.
You also have to understand,assuming he is indeed natural, that he is in his 40s. Natural bodybuilders look their absolute best in their mid 30s to early 40s. So what you are seeing is the best La Cour will ever be.
Natural bodybuilding is interesting in that age is more so on your side it seems then with the drugged version.
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Im playing the Natural Selection shit. We salute the improvement of the human genome
by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
http://www.darwinawards.com/
nice cop out moron. Natural selection should never even enter this equation. Your imperialistic attitude towards everyone else is tiresome to say the least.
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Overdosed on Prohormones.
Here is a true story. 4 years ago I talked to Dave Palumbo on instant messenger, his name shares his moniker on here.......
He said Skip LaCour was buying growth hormone and said it in a very rude way. He would not come off of it either.
Now I am skeptical about him saying all of that, but Dave used to or still does deal in Growth Hormone so he may have had some inside knowledge.
I have no idea about the truth of all of that one way or the other.
Skip is thick boned and very narrow. HE is more illusion than anything. His short,thick,narrow bones and short muscle bellies filled out easy as those types tend to do so.
Either way, the man works hard and is pretty miserable given the diets I have seen. Very miserable unnecessarily. No idea why he chooses to do that to himself and make it so difficult. He barely eats whole meals and his idea of cheating is using ketchup.
You also have to understand,assuming he is indeed natural, that he is in his 40s. Natural bodybuilders look their absolute best in their mid 30s to early 40s. So what you are seeing is the best La Cour will ever be.
Natural bodybuilding is interesting in that age is more so on your side it seems then with the drugged version.
i dont know why palumbo would be telling you that skip buys hgh...was he saying that skip was actually buying if from him...or did he just say he thinks skip uses gh...either way i wouldnt think to much of what palumbo has to say on this issue.
like i said i truely believe that he is natural... i would like to see a picture of any natural guy who carries skips thickness and at the same time can get on stage bone dry with that same level of conditioning...i'm sure there is none.
adonis skip is someone you or any other natural guy should admire and strive to be like...as far as his knowledge of nutrtion, especially dialing it in for a show, you should take in what he has to say because the guy knows his stuff...he diets hard and strict because thats what is needed to achieve what he has...you are supposed to suffer when getting ready for a show...and it also doesnt mean that he is suffering off season...some guys like to eat clean year round...and he does have cheat days where he eats whatever he wants.
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ALL things are possible to him who believes.
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Religious freaks like this will always say pray, and then when it doesn't work, God work in mysterious ways. There is no way to argue with them, they have to win or they couldnt' function in life. They don't have a true understanding of God, just some fairy tale version of him that they contrive to help them deal with their mental weaknesses.
Hahaha, LOL@"when it doesn't work". You're so mind-bogglingly dumb kid, that my message was completely lost upon your puny brain. You're just another unjustifiably conceited kid, a loser really who expects God to be his own personal fairy godmother. If you have no faith, what are you? You have nothing, and are nothing, not until you man up and stop acting like some lil' brat anyway. Again, human beings cannot hope to interpret all that the Lord does as God is on an infinitely higher plane than all o' us...that is why He Is Lord and we are but mere mortal men. The creation will never be a match for the Creator. Now as for an understanding of God, no finite mortal can possibly hope to comprehend the full depth and breadth of God but the Bible, the inspired Word of God, is a tremendous place to start. I suggest you pick up a copy and commence your education in life.
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ALL things are possible to him who believes.
As someone who does happen to have god in my life, I surely think that the 'creator' has much better things to do with his time than empower his 'creation' to be over 210lbs, drug free, and <5% bodyfat.
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Dont bring god into this , hes the biggest juicer out and is far from natural
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Dont bring god into this , hes the biggest juicer out and is far from natural
I don't know about God but his son was all natty....Although he did use a bit of clen/t3 and tons of DNP...
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Hahaha, LOL@"when it doesn't work". You're so mind-bogglingly dumb kid, that my message was completely lost upon your puny brain. You're just another unjustifiably conceited kid, a loser really who expects God to be his own personal fairy godmother. If you have no faith, what are you? You have nothing, and are nothing, not until you man up and stop acting like some lil' brat anyway. Again, human beings cannot hope to interpret all that the Lord does as God is on an infinitely higher plane than all o' us...that is why He Is Lord and we are but mere mortal men. The creation will never be a match for the Creator. Now as for an understanding of God, no finite mortal can possibly hope to comprehend the full depth and breadth of God but the Bible, the inspired Word of God, is a tremendous place to start. I suggest you pick up a copy and commence your education in life.
Or maybe god's "actions" don't make sense for the most logical reason, god is fiction. I'm all for believing in your own abilities and surpassing what you thought possible, but the judeo-christian god is just like every other god through out history, a man made myth. The only person who empowers anyone to accomplish something great is yourself.
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Hahahaha, sadly you have been deceived by your master the devil. Brutal ignorance of fact & logic on your part; you'd best wake up & open yer eyes kid or face the fire.
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Hahahaha, sadly you have been deceived by your master the devil. Brutal ignorance of fact & logic on your part; you'd best wake up & open yer eyes kid or face the fire.
Apologies TA. I thought you were the Getbigger most in need of electroshock therapy. I stand corrected.
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People are just going to have to face the fact of truth that they are FATTER than they think they are. Much Much Much fatter.
Luckily we dont live by your standards, you are ripped to the bullshit but also took one of many paths to looking good. these days standards are so low, 15-20% can look reasonable, if you say otherwise then you are so one-sided, so biased that i respect you nil. And i know respect is what you're looking for.
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Apologies TA. I thought you were the Getbigger most in need of electroshock therapy. I stand corrected.
Embrace the truth ya fool!
http://keyofdavid.com
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according to vince g this guy...i couldnt tell u his name...is the most dominant natural...and he is considered to be the ronnie coleman of natural bodybuilding...lol
are you kidding? he is dry (from water depletion) and cut (but anyone can get cut). he is not dominate, hes good but nothing crazy or anything, my dad would destroy this guy in a comp and he doesnt even diet and is 61
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Hahahaha, sadly you have been deceived by your master the devil. Brutal ignorance of fact & logic on your part; you'd best wake up & open yer eyes kid or face the fire.
So tell me what evidence there is in support of the Jewish god that there isn't for Krishna, Zeus, Thor or Amon-Ra
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are you kidding? he is dry (from water depletion) and cut (but anyone can get cut). he is not dominate, hes good but nothing crazy or anything, my dad would destroy this guy in a comp and he doesnt even diet and is 61
dw there is alot more to get on stage ripped than simply cutting your water.
as far as skip goes i never said he was great...but compare him to these other natural guys and show me a pic of anyone of them who compares to skip as far as his combination of thickness and conditioning... i have seen him on 2 occasions in person at the team universe looking absolutely shredded and bone dry...impressive.
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So tell me what evidence there is in support of the Jewish god that there isn't for Krishna, Zeus, Thor or Amon-Ra
Don't be disrespecting Thor fool! Brutal ignorance of fact & logic on your part; you'd best wake up & open yer eyes kid or face the hammer.
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Had Asafa not slowed down the last 10 meters we would see 9.68, the fastest time ever reckorded 100 meters run.
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Had Asafa not slowed down the last 10 meters we would see 9.68, the fastest time ever reckorded 100 meters run.
Monster bringing back year old threads
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People are just going to have to face the fact of truth that they are FATTER than they think they are. Much Much Much fatter.
so true...i realised how fat i really was this year, to look ripped i believe i will have to weigh 170-175 pounds
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Perhaps my articles should find a home there.
I have many, many that I have written just for myself.....
i would like to read these
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deadlift
225 pounds
112 reps
video
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t-mag is the worst site on the web for bodybuilding. their only focus is on selling supps, and bad ones at that, anyone remember their myostatin inhibitor, that they swore will make you look like ronnie coleman in a month, if not take more. hahahaha pathetic.
nothing against ct, the man has to make a living, but t-mag are the devil !
i strongly disagree with gh15 and adonis, i know many naturals that are over 200 lbs ripped without gear. i am one myself, and know many more. weight is just a number, bones, water, etc can all weight more or less depending on the individual.
Read that last section. :D
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Read that last section. :D
hahahaha i own your mind adonis.
yes ? i do know many.
and i WAS one 2 years ago, before 2 torn rotators.
how much of a simpleton are you ?
i have owned you beyond belief, now you are melting, going through my old posts up to 2 years ago and owning your self hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahah
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hahahaha i own your mind adonis.
yes ? i do know many.
and i WAS one 2 years ago, before 2 torn rotators.
how much of a simpleton are you ?
i have owned you beyond belief, now you are melting, going through my old posts up to 2 years ago and owning your self hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahah
You sound like the old fat powerlifter types in the gym that talk about their golden years. How they could have gone pro in football etc...
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hahahaha i own your mind adonis.
yes ? i do know many.
and i WAS one 2 years ago, before 2 torn rotators.
how much of a simpleton are you ?
i have owned you beyond belief, now you are melting, going through my old posts up to 2 years ago and owning your self hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahah
Bullshit, you are owned.
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You sound like the old fat powerlifter types in the gym that talk about their golden years. How they could have gone pro in football etc...
If coach had put me in fourth quarter we'd be state champs no doubt...
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how am i owned ???
once i tore my rotators i stopped working out and ate what i like, and got very fat - there is no owning here.
check my post history if you like, just like adonis did.
shouldn't take you long, i've only made 2500 posts.
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how am i owned ???
once i tore my rotators i stopped working out and ate what i like, and got very fat - there is no owning here.
check my post history if you like, just like adonis did.
shouldn't take you long, i've only made 2500 posts.
Hahahahha did the pictures magically disappear?
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Hahahahha did the pictures magically disappear?
what pictures ?
i am aware you have been taught everything you know from adonis, and chose to take the gear route that he once did, but in this instance i suggest you read my posts before jumping to conclusions.
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what pictures ?
i am aware you have been taught everything you know from adonis, and chose to take the gear route that he once did, but in this instance i suggest you read my posts before jumping to conclusions.
teehee
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leafy how is progress goin? whats your weight and body fat now?
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leafy how is progress goin? whats your weight and body fat now?
I dropped about 10 pounds from 190. Working on tweaking some things. I have probably made some natural gains at about 2 pounds right now. Nothing drastic. I'll report back in about 4-6 weeks if i have any major results though. If there are ill post some new pictures.
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I dropped about 10 pounds from 190. Working on tweaking some things. I have probably made some natural gains at about 2 pounds right now. Nothing drastic. I'll report back in about 4-6 weeks if i have any major results though. If there are ill post some new pictures.
your dropped 10 lbs? what happened?
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your dropped 10 lbs? what happened?
Ran a little cutter to drop some bf. Adonis has seen the pictures and a few others and they think i have grown but i still feel im just putting on bodyfat. We won't know anything for sure until next year in july.
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Ran a little cutter to drop some bf. Adonis has seen the pictures and a few others and they think i have grown but i still feel im just putting on bodyfat. We won't know anything for sure until next year in july.
most guys i know , myself included when i was one, who are natural and try to bulk by increasing food, always end up putting on fat faster than putting on muscle.
whats your diet , training, cardio, pre/during/after supplements?
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most guys i know , myself included when i was one, who are natural and try to bulk by increasing food, always end up putting on fat faster than putting on muscle.
whats your diet , training, cardio, pre/during/after supplements?
hahahaaha, oh boy.
How long did you train natural? 5 months??
Stop speaking like you have experience. You were fat 90% of your life, then trained a few months natural and now you're a steroid guru.
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If coach had put me in fourth quarter we'd be state champs no doubt...
;D
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hahahaaha, oh boy.
How long did you train natural? 5 months??
Stop speaking like you have experience. You were fat 90% of your life, then trained a few months natural and now you're a steroid guru.
i trained natural 3 years.
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most guys i know , myself included when i was one, who are natural and try to bulk by increasing food, always end up putting on fat faster than putting on muscle.
whats your diet , training, cardio, pre/during/after supplements?
It's all good bro i got it set ;D
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i trained natural 3 years.
oh really!!
Well, that's a long time for a natty. Even considering the fact that you were fat and unexperienced.
You're so full of yourself, it's ridiculous. After you came back, you laid low for a while, but now you're the same arrogant cock you have always been.
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It's all good bro i got it set ;D
i am just curious..
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oh really!!
Well, that's a long time for a natty. Even considering the fact that you were fat and unexperienced.
You're so full of yourself, it's ridiculous. After you came back, you laid low for a while, but now you're the same arrogant cock you have always been.
i was fat for half the time, sort of lean for half the time.
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i was fat for half the time, sort of lean for half the time.
i appreciate people who work out hard and try to educate themselves, but you should really try to keep your mouth shut more often, it will help you getting along a lot.
right now, you write some info out of the book, you could call that copy and paste, and some utter bullshit. But you have almost ZERO personal experience.
May i give you a hint: You are not special and the Einstein of bodybuilding.
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i appreciate people who work out hard and try to educate themselves, but you should really try to keep your mouth shut more often, it will help you getting along a lot.
right now, you write some info out of the book, you could call that copy and paste, and some utter bullshit. But you have almost ZERO personal experience.
May i give you a hint: You are not special and the Einstein of bodybuilding.
age doesnt mean shit
and oh yeah..im a psychic ;)
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age doesnt mean shit
and oh yeah..im a psychic ;)
age doesn't mean a shit, EXPERIENCE does.
You haven't got both.
And, you are a psycho, not psychic. hth.
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age doesn't mean a shit, EXPERIENCE does.
You haven't got both.
And, you are a psycho, not psychic. hth.
oh brother..throught the past 4 years ive lost 100 lbs fat and gained 100 lbs muscle. ...no experience.. ::)
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oh brother..throught the past 4 years ive lost 100 lbs fat and gained 100 lbs muscle. ...no experience.. ::)
Hint: That's NO problem, FACE that.
You were a fat tub of lard with no sport history, it's no problem to make dramatic changes. Then you went on all sorts of steroids, every idiot under the sun (except Sebastian from Romania) would grow on that.
You really should think a moment about that, and i think the testosterone burns up your narc brain. YOU are not special, you know nothing. You are a beginner, an educated one.
This is not a personal attack or something, i just state the facts.
4 years of training, 3 off roids and one on, that is a beginner. You have quite some knowledge about stuff, but you come across like an arrogant know-it-all.
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Hint: That's NO problem, FACE that.
You were a fat tub of lard with no sport history, it's no problem to make dramatic changes. Then you went on all sorts of steroids, every idiot under the sun (except Sebastian from Romania) would grow on that.
You really should think a moment about that, and i think the testosterone burns up your narc brain. YOU are not special, you know nothing. You are a beginner, an educated one.
This is not a personal attack or something, i just state the facts.
4 years of training, 3 off roids and one on, that is a beginner. You have quite some knowledge about stuff, but you come across like an arrogant know-it-all.
regardless, he is more knowledgable than 99% of getbiggers and has more experience in life than 99% of getbiggers too.
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Nobody can produce one, a PRO BODYBUILDER never has seen one.
Yet they are in everybodys gym? Yet there are many fatties here claiming they meet that criteria?
Something is amiss.
Adonis maybe you should try training your lower body?
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regardless, he is more knowledgable than 99% of getbiggers and has more experience in life than 99% of getbiggers too.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed is king.
However, the two-eyed is god.