Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: dj181 on January 12, 2011, 12:57:15 PM
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Believes this horseshit that a "clean diet" is requirement to have an outstanding physique?
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What is a "clean" diet for you in the first place?
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you seem like a nice enough guy but seriously fuck off
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How about for health, or do you want to look good and be dying inside?
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How about for health, or do you want to look good and be dying inside?
option D
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Hey noname, If you don't like what I have to say then don't read it.
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Seriously.......can everybody shut the fuck up with this nonsense already?
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Hey noname, If you don't like what I have to say then don't read it.
it's not a matter of liking or not
it's a matter of that this subject is being discussed almost ad nauseam at this point
Seriously.......can everybody shut the fuck up with this nonsense already?
this x 1000
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By "clean" I mean low saturated fat, and low sugar intake.
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it's not a matter of liking or not
it's a matter of that this subject is being discussed almost ad nauseam at this point
this x 1000
You ever have a fever dream where the same events play out over and over again?
Getbig has the DTs
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Seriously.......can everybody shut the fuck up with this nonsense already?
THIS!
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You ever have a fever dream where the same events play out over and over again?
Getbig has the DTs
it's like i can't wait for july so that fat piece of shit will either have lost all the weight or not so this forum can go back to being (somewhat) normal
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it's not a matter of liking or not
it's a matter of that this subject is being discussed almost ad nauseam at this point
this x 1000
I can't figure out if this clown is totally clueless, or just a petulant and neglected 10-year old.
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I'm talking stictly about looks Jamie, but as far as health goes I'm convinced that good health is much more linked to genetics than it is to a so-called "healthy" diet.
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Seriously.......can everybody shut the fuck up with this nonsense already?
It's so dj181 can mention, for the millionth time, how he's going to be sub 7% body fat eating gummi bears and candy, using da cool ebonics talk 8)
Next thing I know, you're going to have a problem with obese guys giving out training and nutrition advice ;D
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it's like i can't wait for july so that fat piece of shit will either have lost all the weight or not so this forum can go back to being (somewhat) normal
He will die trying to lose that weight, he is genetically predisposed to being a fat pie muncher.
We should all encourage him, he doesn't eat for a few weeks trying to lose a 1lb of weight and he drops. Problem solved.
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Studies show.....
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By "clean" I mean low saturated fat, and low sugar intake.
In my opinion all that matters is total calorie and macronutrient intake for the day, choose whatever foods you wish for that.
Now let's close this thread because everybody is getting their panties in a bunch over it.
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So I take it that "chimps" follows a strict diet and still looks like shit ::)
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Clean hormones + dirty food = greatness
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I can't figure out if this clown is totally clueless, or just a petulant and neglected 10-year old.
it's like, and with all due respect to the threadstarter, how can you hang on the "every word" of a obese, virgin who has never played a competitive sport in his life?
I mean, that weighs (no pun intended) a lot on the intelligence of a person
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btw, so i can stay on subject of this thread and not make it a total "flamefest", I do believe that a cheat meal (that doesn't extend 60 minutes in duration) is VERY beneficial and helps restore leptin levels
Okay.....end of thread
oh and there is a huge difference between a cheat meal every 7-10 days and a junk food diet that Fat Duchaine is advocating
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it's like, and with all due respect to the threadstarter, how can you hang on the "every word" of a obese, virgin who has never played a competitive sport in his life?
I mean, that weighs (no pun intended) a lot on the intelligence of a person
Fatpanda brings out the best in you, LMAO!
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Clean hormones + dirty food = greatness
^
This is the secret to all things great in the strength sports.
Up the dose and pray for most. And when that stops working, up it again.
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Fatpanda brings out the best in you, LMAO!
of course he does- he's fat
fat people were made by the Lord Jesus Christ for the sole purpose of being ridiculed. It was in Leviticus or something
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btw, so i can stay on subject of this thread and not make it a total "flamefest", I do believe that a cheat meal (that doesn't extend 60 minutes in duration) is VERY beneficial and helps restore leptin levels
Okay.....end of thread
oh and there is a huge difference between a cheat meal every 7-10 days and a junk food diet that Fat Duchaine is advocating
Hehe. And if he's so farkin' smart, like he keeps saying, why can't he out think that plate of bacon in front of him!? Riddle me that. ;D
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First of all, "pandas theories" aren't his theories, they come from Arthur Jones. Secondly, unlike panda, I firmly believe that HARD AND CONSISTANT TRAINING is the key/answer, and "diet" means FUCK ALL within the equation.
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Hehe. And if he's so farkin' smart, like he keeps saying, why can't he out think that plate of bacon in front of him!? Riddle me that. ;D
if he was so smart he would actually go out and have sex with a woman
........and yes, i always go on the "sex tangent" because the fact in this matter is that getting laid is so easy that toothless hillbillies who don't know shit from Shineola are humping like rabbits and yet this obese guru can't find a why to get his dick wet...how does that make sense?
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First of all, "pandas theories" aren't his theories, they come from Arthur Jones. Secondly, unlike panda, I firmly believe that HARD AND CONSISTANT TRAINING is the key/answer, and "diet" means FUCK ALL within the equation.
Arthur Jones wasn't exactly a stable guy either, chief....
And if you are sooooooo sure why not just eat like you do and post some pics to prove your point?
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if he was so smart he would actually go out and have sex with a woman
........and yes, i always go on the "sex tangent" because the fact in this matter is that getting laid is so easy that toothless hillbillies who don't know shit from Shineola are humping like rabbits and yet this obese guru can't find a why to get his dick wet...how does that make sense?
It makes none. Our Panda is a deep-fried riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. :-X
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It makes none. Our Panda is a deep-fried riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. :-X
he's a repressed Eggroll filled with Haggis, bullshit and Thanotos
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Johnny said................."Fat Duchaine" !! ;D
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Don't worry show, I'll post pics once I hit sub-7, which will be no later than the end of March. And regarding Jones, yeah he was a bit "out there" BUT... it really doesn't matter, coz he knew what the fuck he was talking bout and many of his ideas/theories were/are spot on. Who gives a fuck if he was crazy or not, all that really matters is this... IS WHAT HE SAID THE TRUTH? And I believe that yes it is the truth.
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First of all, "pandas theories" aren't his theories, they come from Arthur Jones. Secondly, unlike panda, I firmly believe that HARD AND CONSISTANT TRAINING is the key/answer, and "diet" means FUCK ALL within the equation.
Food is the fuel. I have made muscle gains and a lot of strength on calorie deficent diets, but having a good diet is important for maximisation.
Imho.
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Food is the fuel. I have made muscle gains and a lot of strength on calorie deficent diets, but having a good diet is important for maximisation.
Imho.
^THIS^
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Food ONLY becomes a factor AFTER hard and consistant training. Eat too much, and you will get fat if your training is half-assed. But, if your training is spot on, eat whatever you like, within reason, and you will lay down muscle tissue IF you are getting progressively stronger.
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Food ONLY becomes a factor AFTER hard and consistant training. Eat too much, and you will get fat if your training is half-assed. But, if your training is spot on, eat whatever you like, within reason, and you will lay down muscle tissue IF you are getting progressively stronger.
I`d like to train with you....I think, you just think you train hard.
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Just curious Jamie, what are some of your previous strength gains? Over the last 12 days my dips have gone from BW+20 for 6 reps to BW+80 for 7 reps
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I`d like to train with you....I think, you just think you train hard.
Careful wes, he's got a 150 lb backpack that he uses for negative only push ups. :o
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You eat shit, you will look like shit, you eat chicken you will look like a chicken
(http://images.clipartof.com/small/37074-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Strong-Green-Rooster-Super-Hero-Or-Body-Builder.jpg)
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Fair enough wes, so I have a question for you, do you know who JM Blakley is? Well, he used to train me, as did Bob Lorimer, son of Jim Lorimer, you know, the Lorimer who runs the Arnold Classic. So yeah man, I think that I know what hard training really is.
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Just curious Jamie, what are some of your previous strength gains? Over the last 12 days my dips have gone from BW+20 for 6 reps to BW+80 for 7 reps
That's like the ninth time you have said that....
I thought you were a real, normal person but you are turning into a troll with your non-stop nonsense
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Believes this horseshit that a "clean diet" is requirement to have an outstanding physique?
fuck that shit big tasty tastes good and you can lose fat with basic calorie counting
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Fair enough wes, so I have a question for you, do you know who JM Blakley is? Well, he used to train me, as did Bob Lorimer, son of Jim Lorimer, you know, the Lorimer who runs the Arnold Classic. So yeah man, I think that I know what hard training really is.
I know who those guys are,but just because they traqined you,doesn`t mean you train hard.
Not saying you don`t ,but I know a lot of guys who thought they trained hard,but once they got with me,after a week or so,I never saw them again.
I have a sneaking suspicion that I`d train Lorimer and Blakley into the ground.
Have you ever heard of Tim Wescott,son of Les Wescott? ;D
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That's like the ninth time you have said that....
I thought you were a real, normal person but you are turning into a troll with your non-stop nonsense
it's like this dude is a broken record
Jm BLakely this....junk food diet that......sub 6 percent this.....wtf is wrong with this troll?
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Yeah man, maybe you would train Lorimer into the ground, but I'm curious, do you think that you would have trained Arthur Jones into the ground ;D
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Why do people who espouse this "eat whatever you want and get shredded while adding muscle" stuff spend the bulk of their time trying to convince others that they're right? Is it because they're looking for the OK from their peers to use that approach? If it works, it works. The results should speak for themselves.
FatPanda's results to this point indicate that approach accomplishes fuck all. Maybe dj181 will have better with results with "dat" approach to "da" dieting. ::)
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Yeah man, maybe you would train Lorimer into the ground, but I'm curious, do you think that you would have trained Arthur Jones into the ground ;D
I sincerely beleive that I could keep up with anybody,even Ronnie Coleman.
Of course I might not lift as heavy as lots of people,but I`m talking about comensurate poundages.
I have trained hard,fast,and heavy for years.
I look like shit,but I train like an animal. ;D
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Have you ever heard of Tim Wescott,son of Les Wescott? ;D
*Sniff* Is that the Boston Wescotts, or the Newport Wescotts? ;D
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*Sniff* Is that the Boston Wescotts, or the Newport Wescotts? ;D
Why it`s the West Palm Beach Wescots you English snob ! LOL ;D
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Why do people who espouse this "eat whatever you want and get shredded while adding muscle" stuff spend the bulk of their time trying to convince others that they're right? Is it because they're looking for the OK from their peers to use that approach? If it works, it works. The results should speak for themselves.
FatPanda's results to this point indicate that approach accomplishes fuck all. Maybe dj181 will have better with results with "dat" approach to "da" dieting. ::)
Indeed.
FP has done exactly SHIT in five months using his "irrefutable" methods.
Meanwhile someone using a standard "bro-science' diet could have gotten competition- lean in that time frame.
Also TA and Wavelength are both lying through their teeth about their methods
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Believes this horseshit that a "clean diet" is requirement to have an outstanding physique?
all the fools.
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Why it`s the West Palm Beach Wescots you English snob ! LOL ;D
Pish tosh. ;D
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oh uh Fat Duchaine is here
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Pish tosh. ;D
[Pish tosh. ;D
(http://www.unreasonablegamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/snob1.gif)
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Indeed.
Also TA and Wavelength are both lying through their teeth about their methods extensive drug use
fixed
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all the fools.
no doctor ever got as huge and ripped as a foolish bodybuilder
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Actually, when you said West Palm Beach the snob I was picturing was Rudy Vallee from The Palm Beach Story. ;D
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By "clean" I mean low saturated fat, and low sugar intake.
You're right......butter and sugar is the only way to go because fatpanda said "a calorie is a calorie".
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Indeed.
FP has done exactly SHIT in five months using his "irrefutable" methods.
Meanwhile someone using a standard "bro-science' diet could have gotten competition- lean in that time frame.
Also TA and Wavelength are both lying through their teeth about their methods
Can you elaborate on their lies? Not trying to be confrontational, I'm just interested in hearing what you have to say.
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I heard its simply total calories vs waht u burn = ripped
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Can you elaborate on their lies? Not trying to be confrontational, I'm just interested in hearing what you have to say.
They both used fat burning agents to achieve their lean state, and lied about what they ate.
fatpanda, to his credit, has played it straight...and has very little progress to show for it
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For the record, I'm curious because I'm following wavelength's diet guide (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305) and it's worked well for me so far.
I've never dieted down before, and these days training at all is a challenge for me (I think my body is seriously fucked up somehow) yet I'm still happy with the results thus far (down about 14 lbs in the first month -- actually I'm worried about muscle loss but I think that's more related to my inability to train properly).
Although I dunno how relevant this is to the discussion at hand, because my average meal isn't kit kats but .5 lb chicken, 2 cups rice, a tablespoon of olive oil, salsa and water. Still, both kit kats and chicken/rice mush can conform to the wavelength principles. :D
I have loosened up a lot with regards to liquid calories and protein powders, plus cheat meals on the weekends. Sometimes I eat relatively healthy pizzas, and stuff like that, as long as the macros are right.
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how many of you would taking driving lessons with Stevie Wonder?
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As far as wave and adullis goes, they claim that it's possible to get into contest condition without hard training, and I call bullshit on that one.
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how many of you would taking driving lessons with Stevie Wonder?
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As far as wave and adullis goes, they claim that it's possible to get into contest condition without hard training, and I call bullshit on that one.
It doesn't say that in wavelength's guide. He only claims you don't need cardio. As long as you keep your lean mass up through lifting (really hard lifting! ::)), you will maintain a substantial BMR. Eat slightly less calories than your BMR and lose weight until you get very lean.
Makes sense to me.
I don't know what TA has to say on cutting.
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Actually, when you said West Palm Beach the snob I was picturing was Rudy Vallee from The Palm Beach Story. ;D
Just Googled it......that`s one I missed. :(
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you fucking 'calorie is a calorie' idiots need to wake the fuck up and realise one thing.
you want to walk around at 160 and look like a swimmer with 7-8% bf then follow this gay diet.
you want to walk around at 260 and look like a perma bulker with 15-20% bf then follow this gay diet.
you want to walk around looking like you work out, have a great physique, and look like you can move a ton of weight, follow a conventional bodybuilding diet. every bodybuilder from the 60's to the 2010's do it- why? because it works you fucking retards.
notice not ONE person who looks like a competitive bodybuilder on this board would follow a gummi bear and kit kat diet. everyone else who does either looks like shit, or is lean with a very unimpressive physique. reap it, bitch.
keep drinking the calorie is a calore koolaid, idiots. the rest of us will bang your women.
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What exactly is a "conventional bodybuilding" diet? I thought it was "eat shit tons of everything every couple of hours and be sure to put 5iu in each delt."
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As far as wave and adullis goes, they claim that it's possible to get into contest condition without hard training, and I call bullshit on that one.
I look at it from a common sense standpoint.....there are thousands of nutritionists and doctors that have been trying to make a buck selling diets for 50 years....but these three guys on Getbig have managed to figure out a way to get ripped while eating whatever you want....sorry, not buying it.
Add to the equation that the "pioneer" of this approach is the biggest bullshitter here ;)
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What exactly is a "conventional bodybuilding" diet? I thought it was "eat shit tons of everything every couple of hours and be sure to put 5iu in each delt."
its called eating chicken, lean red meats, and good carbs and fats, not kit kats and eggos.
its one thing to 'diet'. its another thing to diet for a show. get it straight. even GH15 will say the last 6-8 weeks the diet is tight regardless of what your taking.
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Serious question, who big can a LIFETIME NATURAL expect to be? I'm talking 5'11 @ 6% gh15 says 165 to 170 MAX. It's quite funny coz I've asked this question many times, and no one wants to answer it, maybe everyone is afraid of God's (gh15's) wrath ;D
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its called eating chicken, lean red meats, and good carbs and fats, not kit kats and eggos.
its one thing to 'diet'. its another thing to diet for a show. get it straight. even GH15 will say the last 6-8 weeks the diet is tight regardless of what your taking.
wow so youve been eating that way for years you must look fantastic (http://www.healthcentral.com/common/bloghoster/data/uploads/avatars/35150.gif?1261)
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wow so youve been eating that way for years you must look fantastic (http://www.healthcentral.com/common/bloghoster/data/uploads/avatars/35150.gif?1261)
he's huge, brah
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They both used fat burning agents to achieve their lean state, and lied about what they ate.
How do you know this, specifically with regard to wavelength? Just because he got so lean? His diet sounded too ridiculous?
Again, sincerely interested in your opinion.
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Allow me to expand ;D
One of the proponents (adonis) is a complete mind-fuck artist....he has made a career out of getting fools to melt over his nonsense
The second(wave) came out of nowhere with an ultra ripped body and said "me too"....the only other pics he has ever posted showed a guy that is in pretty damn good shape regardless
The third (panda) has failed miserably....after 5 months he pretty much looks the same, he dropped a few lbs., but nothing noteworthy and nowhere near the outlandish claims he made.
Other than that you have the occasional poster who claims to be making great progress following this diet but funny, they never seem to post a pic ;)
Meanwhile you have thousands of people every year who get in shape, get lean and win BBing contests following their "archaic" dieting methods
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How do you know this, specifically with regard to wavelength? Just because he got so lean? His diet sounded too ridiculous?
Again, sincerely interested in your opinion.
I don't "know" anything....IMO they are full of shit, based on common sense
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I don't "know" anything....IMO they are full of shit, based on common sense
they are totally full of shit...there are a lot of popular diet myths out there...but clean eating isnt one of them..
bench
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I think it's strange because everything wavelength says in his guide makes sense to me.
For reference, this is what I'm talking about:
Essential Rules
- Workout with weights 3 times a week.
- Drink about a gallon of water each day.
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight change is maintained.
- The rate of weight change should not be above 3lbs/week, 1-2lbs/week is recommended.
IMO, any diet (resp. cutting method) that follows the above rules is optimal for cutting, any further details will not have significant effect on body composition. If you already have a meal plan, just check if these rules are followed and adjust if not.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305
Now, the "calorie is a calorie" thing only comes into play on the fifth point of that list. I'm following this list to a T, and getting good results so far (I've actually posted pics too, and I'll be sure to at the end if I get good results). However, like I said before, I don't eat kit kats but rather traditional bodybuilding foods (lol) like chicken and rice, for the most part. If I take an liberties and eat pizza or whatever I make sure it still follows the above rules.
I'm surprised to hear that some here think you can't get ripped following that plan, and need fatburners or whatever.
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I don't "know" anything....IMO they are full of shit LIES, based on common sense
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I think it's strange because everything wavelength says in his guide makes sense to me.
For reference, this is what I'm talking about:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305
Now, the "calorie is a calorie" thing only comes into play on the fifth point of that list. I'm following this list to a T, and getting good results so far (I've actually posted pics too, and I'll be sure to at the end if I get good results). However, like I said before, I don't eat kit kats but rather traditional bodybuilding foods (lol) like chicken and rice, for the most part. If I take an liberties and eat pizza or whatever I make sure it still follows the above rules.
I'm surprised to hear that some here think you can't get ripped following that plan, and need fatburners or whatever.
i am talking mainly about a calorie is a calorie...wavelengths guide is a pretty standard ideal...nothing new with it at all...
bench
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Believes this horseshit that a "clean diet" is requirement to have an outstanding physique?
No. Shit diet works depending on other variables. But I think clean vs shit on the same person clean will work better.
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No. Shit diet works depending on other variables. But I think clean vs shit on the same person clean will work better.
this...i have to throw is some junk on a daily basis just cause the ammount of cardio i do on top of regular lifting...but other than that i eat clean..
bench
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I think it's strange because everything wavelength says in his guide makes sense to me.
For reference, this is what I'm talking about:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305
Now, the "calorie is a calorie" thing only comes into play on the fifth point of that list. I'm following this list to a T, and getting good results so far (I've actually posted pics too, and I'll be sure to at the end if I get good results). However, like I said before, I don't eat kit kats but rather traditional bodybuilding foods (lol) like chicken and rice, for the most part. If I take an liberties and eat pizza or whatever I make sure it still follows the above rules.
I'm surprised to hear that some here think you can't get ripped following that plan, and need fatburners or whatever.
So why don't you post a pic of your ripped physique you obtained eating 'whatever you want' and shut us all up ?
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No. Shit diet works depending on other variables. But I think clean vs shit on the same person clean will work better.
Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.
At the end of the day, Philosophy is proven only by it's results. Take twins and make one eat the clean diet while the other eats garbage, with both of them doing the same workout - over time, the twin eating the healthier food is going to be stronger and more muscular, as well as look and feel better.
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Hey c, you seem like a cool fella, so I'll be easy on ya ;) You can eat clean, and that's cool if you like, but the whole point is that it isn't required. I'm getting back into condition at the moment so I don't look so grand. But, I did look pretty decent some 10 years ago, and in fact you can see how I exactly looked if you check my thread entitled "Me at my peak" And honest to God, my "diet" was horrendous, double cheeseburgers, french fries, ice cream, etc. Yeah, that's cool if you eat chicken and rice, but it's not a requirement
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Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.
At the end of the day, Philosophy is proven only by it's results. Take twins and make one eat the clean diet while the other eats garbage, with both of them doing the same workout - over time, the twin eating the healthier food is going to be stronger and more muscular, as well as look and feel better.
Dave Palumbo and vince taylor claim cables are better. What are your thoughts on that kiwi?
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Dave Palumbo and vince taylor claim cables are better. What are your thoughts on that kiwi?
they were also on a shit load of drugs....all they were trying to do was fill the muscle with blood...its all they needed to do..
for anyone not pounding drugs?...stick to real weights..
bench
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Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.
At the end of the day, Philosophy is proven only by it's results. Take twins and make one eat the clean diet while the other eats garbage, with both of them doing the same workout - over time, the twin eating the healthier food is going to be stronger and more muscular, as well as look and feel better.
Are you saying Panda is all about the cable cross-overs and Indian Clubs? ;D
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Dave Palumbo and vince taylor claim cables are better. What are your thoughts on that kiwi?
Free weight barbell curls force you to work more to stabilize the bar on top of doing the actual curl, so as long as your form is good, that exercise is superior to doing cable curls.
You can benefit from cable curls, esp. if drugs come into the equation, but I'd say it's better to use them both in your workout. If I had to pick just one and wanted the best possible arms, I'd pick the (EZ) barbell curl.
they were also on a shit load of drugs....all they were trying to do was fill the muscle with blood...its all they needed to do..
for anyone not pounding drugs?...stick to real weights..
bench
Exactly
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Free weight barbell curls force you to work more to stabilize the bar on top of doing the actual curl, so as long as your form is good, that exercise is superior to doing cable curls.
You can benefit from cable curls, esp. if drugs come into the equation, but I'd say it's better to use them both in your workout. If I had to pick just one and wanted the best possible arms, I'd pick the (EZ) barbell curl.
I tell people to stay away from easy bar... they call it easy bar for a reason :D... I think forcing your wrist to be supinated balances the pressure on the bicep evenly so you aren't hitting brachialis. It hurts at first but im used to it now and its all i will ever do.
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I tell people to stay away from easy bar... they call it easy bar for a reason :D... I think forcing your wrist to be supinated balances the pressure on the bicep evenly so you aren't hitting brachialis. It hurts at first but im used to it now and its all i will ever do.
the easy bar comes in to play in a big way though.....your shoulders will think you...think about the tendons...
bench
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the easy bar comes in to play in a big way though.....your shoulders will think you...think about the tendons...
bench
How so... i have yet to have shoulder issues. I don't have to cheat. Im so badass i curl 315 without any swing... all bicep baby. You wanna kiss them?
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Are you saying Panda is all about the cable cross-overs and Indian Clubs? ;D
Based on his posts on the subject, maybe I should let JNN take this question ;D
I tell people to stay away from easy bar... they call it easy bar for a reason :D... I think forcing your wrist to be supinated balances the pressure on the bicep evenly so you aren't hitting brachialis. It hurts at first but im used to it now and its all i will ever do.
I do both EZ bar and straight bar curls (and cables too, towards the end). I've got tiny wrists, so I can't curl heavy with the straight bar to start off. So I do the EZ curls first and then straight bar curls, followed by dumbell and hammer curls.
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How so... i have yet to have shoulder issues. I don't have to cheat. Im so badass i curl 315 without any swing... all bicep baby. You wanna kiss them?
people dont realize it...but if you do a lot of straight bar curls, or just overtrain the bi's the shoulders go to shit...not due to form, or muscle problems...just due to certain tendons, and ligaments...
bench
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Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.
Honestly, this is statement gets to the heart of the issue. Are barbell curls REALLY better than cable curls? How do you know? Have you observed long term growth with both, and compared the rates? And not just in yourself, but others too?
How about people clean vs dirty diet (keeping calories steady, ie "a calorie is just a calorie")? How many people espousing one method have even tried the other? Sure there are countless bodybuilders who have eaten clean while dieting down, but how many have EVEN TRIED eating dirty while dieting down? I'm sure 99.999999% of them, especially these days, just look at what everyone else is doing and follow suit.
I eat clean because I believe that there are substantial health benefits, and these will eventually have a significant impact on the appearance of your physique as well. But I definitely have my doubts, and wouldn't be surprised if the impact on one's appearance wasn't small enough to justify those in the "calorie is just a calorie" camp.
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Free weight barbell curls force you to work more to stabilize the bar on top of doing the actual curl, so as long as your form is good, that exercise is superior to doing cable curls.
You can benefit from cable curls, esp. if drugs come into the equation, but I'd say it's better to use them both in your workout. If I had to pick just one and wanted the best possible arms, I'd pick the (EZ) barbell curl.
Exactly
YUP.
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Based on his posts on the subject, maybe I should let JNN take this question ;D
I do both EZ bar and straight bar curls (and cables too, towards the end). I've got tiny wrists, so I can't curl heavy with the straight bar to start off. So I do the EZ curls first and then straight bar curls, followed by dumbell and hammer curls.
You can only do soo much anyway without cheating. I have tiny wrists too so i usually stop at 135.. No real point in going over that.
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i never have joint problems cause im a vegetarian /\/eegars
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straight bar will aggravate your elbows too if you are prone to tendonitis.....it forces your arms into an unnatural position
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Good question c, I did eat clean for awhile, and my strength plummeted and I got very flat. I went from 167 @ 9% to 157 @ 7% and my bench went down from 225 for 6 reps to 185 for 8 reps.
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I look at it from a common sense standpoint.....there are thousands of nutritionists and doctors that have been trying to make a buck selling diets for 50 years....but these three guys on Getbig have managed to figure out a way to get ripped while eating whatever you want....sorry, not buying it.
Add to the equation that the "pioneer" of this approach is the biggest bullshitter here ;)
explain how i keep losing weight then ?
even with the extra weight over xmas anyone can see the vast improvements i have made over the past 5 months.
my daily diet normally include curries, chocolate, icecream, pizza, pasta, fries, candy. i lost 39lbs up till xmas ( all documented here) - took a month off, put some back on.
and now i will stay on till i reach 175. if i don't i'll never post here again.
my strength hasn't went down much either. ::)
for a bullshit diet its doing wonders. ::)
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Are barbell curls REALLY better than cable curls? How do you know?
Assuming you have no injuries and aren't using drugs, then yes, bb curls are better, since they force you to do more work. Ideally, you'd start the bicep workout with them (or db curls) and use cable curls towards the end of the workout.
Think about the difference between bb bent over rows and seated cable rows - they are both good and target the same muscle group, but the bb row forces your body to recruit more stabilizers and gives you a thicker look, while the cable rows allow you to focus on just getting more blood/pump in there. It's the same principle for curls.
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Sorry kiwiol, but you're wrong about the row thing. A muscle only knows resistance, and it doesn't matter if the resistance is from a barbell, a cable, or a machine.
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explain how i keep losing weight then ?
even with the extra weight over xmas anyone can see the vast improvements i have made over the past 5 months.
my daily diet normally include curries, chocolate, icecream, pizza, pasta, fries, candy. i lost 39lbs up till xmas ( all documented here) - took a month off, put some back on.
and now i will stay on till i reach 175. if i don't i'll never post here again.
my strength hasn't went down much either. ::)
for a bullshit diet its doing wonders. ::)
how could you go lower when nothing is your starting point?
bench
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explain how i keep losing weight then ?
even with the extra weight over xmas anyone can see the vast improvements i have made over the past 5 months.
my daily diet normally include curries, chocolate, icecream, pizza, pasta, fries, candy. i lost 39lbs up till xmas ( all documented here) - took a month off, put some back on.
and now i will stay on till i reach 175. if i don't i'll never post here again.
my strength hasn't went down much either. ::)
for a bullshit diet its doing wonders. ::)
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_les8q6c42H1qa1xnko1_500.gif)
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Sorry kiwiol, but you're wrong about the row thing. A muscle only knows resistance, and it doesn't matter if the resistance is from a barbell, a cable, or a machine.
I'm not wrong, but your logic is. Yes, a muscle knows only resistance, which means your back muscles get worked in both the bb rows and cable rows. But that doesn't mean that the work load is the same in both exercises.
Your leg muscles only know resistance, regardless of whether you're doing leg extensions or squats, but does that mean there is no difference between the 2 movements?
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Fair enough, but your comparing an isolation move (ext) to a compound move (squats) and that isn't a fair comparison because compound moves pwn isolation moves. The better comparison would be leg presses to squats, and with that comparison they are equals.
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Fair enough, but your comparing an isolation move (ext) to a compound move (squats) and that isn't a fair comparison because compound moves pwn isolation moves. The better comparison would be leg presses to squats, and with that comparison they are equals.
No they aren't. Two different exercises are never equal. There is a difference between a barbell bench press and a machine bench press, for example, even though it's the same movement targeting the same muscle group. You do more work with the barbell bench press, which makes it harder - something that anyone who trains hard and is experienced knows.
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Allow me to expand ;D
One of the proponents (adonis) is a complete mind-fuck artist....he has made a career out of getting fools to melt over his nonsense
The second(wave) came out of nowhere with an ultra ripped body and said "me too"....the only other pics he has ever posted showed a guy that is in pretty damn good shape regardless
The third (panda) has failed miserably....after 5 months he pretty much looks the same, he dropped a few lbs., but nothing noteworthy and nowhere near the outlandish claims he made.
Other than that you have the occasional poster who claims to be making great progress following this diet but funny, they never seem to post a pic ;)
Meanwhile you have thousands of people every year who get in shape, get lean and win BBing contests following their "archaic" dieting methods
Fucking nailed it. :)
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Fair enough, but your comparing an isolation move (ext) to a compound move (squats) and that isn't a fair comparison because compound moves pwn isolation moves. The better comparison would be leg presses to squats, and with that comparison they are equals.
A lot of guys can press 3 plates a side on a hammer strength incline press, but 3 plates on a barbell incline would drive them through the floor.
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But, the point is that both barbell benches and machine bench will both build the muscles equally well. FYI, I used to compete in bench press competitions and my PR was 275 @ 165, so I have some decent experience with the barbell bench press.
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But, the point is that both barbell benches and machine bench will both build the muscles equally well. FYI, I used to compete in bench press competitions and my PR was 275 @ 165, so I have some decent experience with the barbell bench press.
Nope. They'll both build muscle, maybe even well, but not equally ;)
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A lot of guys can press 3 plates a side on a hammer strength incline press, but 3 plates on a barbell incline would drive them through the floor.
i can do 10 reps with three plates on hammer strenght and my max bench is 280
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(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_les8q6c42H1qa1xnko1_500.gif)
;D
brilliant !!
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explain how i keep losing weight then ?
even with the extra weight over xmas anyone can see the vast improvements i have made over the past 5 months.
my daily diet normally include curries, chocolate, icecream, pizza, pasta, fries, candy. i lost 39lbs up till xmas ( all documented here) - took a month off, put some back on.
and now i will stay on till i reach 175. if i don't i'll never post here again.
my strength hasn't went down much either. ::)
for a bullshit diet its doing wonders. ::)
yeah, its a real miracle worker! ahahahahahaha
listen you fat fuck- i'll write in in capital letters cause you seem to be missing the point.
YOU HAVENT ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING. YOU WEIGH 2 POUNDS LESS THAN WHEN YOU STARTED. YOU FUCKING DUNCE. LOL
congrats by the way on wasted time and effort- your knack for mediocrity should be applauded.
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8) Genetics rule all.
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explain how i keep losing weight then ?
even with the extra weight over xmas anyone can see the vast improvements i have made over the past 5 months.
my daily diet normally include curries, chocolate, icecream, pizza, pasta, fries, candy. i lost 39lbs up till xmas ( all documented here) - took a month off, put some back on.
and now i will stay on till i reach 175. if i don't i'll never post here again.
my strength hasn't went down much either. ::)
for a bullshit diet its doing wonders. ::)
And again, for the 1000th time:
You lose weight because you lose MUSCLE and water. Your diet forces the body to pile on more fat once your metabolism has adopted to the lower calorie intake. There are no "vast improvements", you are still a fat slob and look like shit.
What basically happens in your diet is what all fat women have done 10000 times in their lives:
First phase: you lose weight, in you case muscle due to the poor quality of food because of lower calories.
Second phase: body has adapted to lower calories and stops losing weight, instead start to STORE fat because he fears lower calories coming up again. It's called "yo-yo" effect, read it up.
Then you lower calories again and it starts all over again. With your diet, you will not lose weight, you will get fatter and fatter and fatter.
Now with that other idiot, dj181, what happens is safe and EVERY ONE that has been on low BF and started to bulk has experienced this:
In the first few weeks, how long it lasts depends on the person, you start building up muscle, if you protein intake is high, caloric intake is high and training frequence is high. You look as if you lose fat and build muscle at the same time, and exactly that is also happening. It's called REBOUND.
But this will not last long, you will start getting fat when your diet sucks. You will even start getting fat with a clean bulking diet when you have a caloric excess, but the results will be much better on a clean diet.
I have said this a few times here before: When you want to start a diet, UP you calories by 1000 AND at the same time also BURN 1500 calories more ed, and you results will be much better. You will have a much higher metabolism, and much higher level of physical activity, combining both will result in much better results than doing just one, but it is also much harder.
From this starting point, you can start reducing calories and activity level and diet on from a much better starting point, which means you will have higher calories over the whole diet.
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Ok, I've got to admit that that was a decent post right there DK, I'm honestly impressed.
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Ok, I've got to admit that that was a decent post right there DK, I'm honestly impressed.
Impressed??
Dude, there's NOTHING impressive about that post. It's common knowledge that has been around for decades and everyone that has only a little success in BB has gone with it.
If you want to be big AND muscular on a low bf, just stick to what has worked for a long time. Then take drugs into the whole thing and it gets a little twist, but the basics stay the same.
Even on high doses of HGH and steroids you will not get results on a diet of Chunky kitkats, McDonald's every day and ice cream.
The baseline of the diet should be healthy food with a good amount of lean protein.
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explain how i keep losing weight then ?
even with the extra weight over xmas anyone can see the vast improvements i have made over the past 5 months.
my daily diet normally include curries, chocolate, icecream, pizza, pasta, fries, candy. i lost 39lbs up till xmas ( all documented here) - took a month off, put some back on.
and now i will stay on till i reach 175. if i don't i'll never post here again.
my strength hasn't went down much either. ::)
for a bullshit diet its doing wonders. ::)
this is what I eat too but Im going for 275 currently at 265 and my old 38inch 'fatgboy'jeans from last year are too big now
up the dosage!
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Spike how tall are you?
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Spike how tall are you?
6ft
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Believes this horseshit that a "clean diet" is requirement to have an outstanding physique?
What is your definition of a clean diet? What is your definition of an outstanding physique. Your metabolism, hormones manipulation, and genetics determine how much calories and macros will ultimately reflect your physique.
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They both used fat burning agents to achieve their lean state, and lied about what they ate.
fatpanda, to his credit, has played it straight...and has very little progress to show for it
I have not ever told one single lie on this forum. I've never used any fat burners in my life.
The only thing that comes close is a little bit of caffeine in coke zero I drink sometimes and some aspirin I occasionally take for headaches.
I also have a 100% complete list of everything I ate in 2009 online (partly with pictures of the food). It's kind of a stretch to think I made all of that up.
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I have not ever told one single lie on this forum. I've never used any fat burners in my life.
The only thing that comes close is a little bit of caffeine in coke zero I drink sometimes and some aspirin I occasionally take for headaches.
I also have a 100% complete list of everything I ate in 2009 online (partly with pictures of the food). It's kind of a stretch to think I made all of that up.
LOL, but it's not a stretch to imagine you "forgot" to type in a few things.
Not saying you did, but come on, we are not stupid here, you can type all the food in the world, ESPECIALLY if you would be on ECA or DNP at the time, it would make perfect sense jsut to "prove" that your theories are right.
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LOL, but it's not a stretch to imagine you "forgot" to type in a few things.
Not saying you did, but come on, we are not stupid here, you can type all the food in the world, ESPECIALLY if you would be on ECA or DNP at the time, it would make perfect sense jsut to "prove" that your theories are right.
I was talking about the food only regarding the log. Of course I could be lying about fat burners but I'm not. I guess you'll have to take my word for it.
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i am talking mainly about a calorie is a calorie...wavelengths guide is a pretty standard ideal...nothing new with it at all...
Exactly, it's common sense.
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Heavy-hitter, when I say "outstanding results" I'm talking about hitting sub-6 as a lifetime natural with absolutely no chemical assistance. You see, in my humble opinion there is something very "magical" about hard training, I'm talking hard weight training AND hard aerobic training. In my humble opinion this hard training super charges the system via chemical release within the organism, and therefore allows one to eat whatever the fuck they want, and still look outstanding to boot.
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Why is it so hard to believe Wavelength has gotten his results eating like he did? Plenty of people have done the same without drugs or anything similar.
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Heavy-hitter, when I say "outstanding results" I'm talking about hitting sub-6 as a lifetime natural with absolutely no chemical assistance. You see, in my humble opinion there is something very "magical" about hard training, I'm talking hard weight training AND hard aerobic training. In my humble opinion this hard training super charges the system via chemical release within the organism, and therefore allows one to eat whatever the fuck they want, and still look outstanding to boot.
What was your routine/diet when you got sub six?
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only idiots throw away the joys of life just for having a dry physique.
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Well I basically trained nearly every day, weight training in the afternoon, and aerobic training at night. The weight training was on a 6 way split as follows: chest/back/delts/bis/tris/legs and then repeat cycle. For aerobic training I ran for 15 to 20 min per day, at a 6 min per mile pace.
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Well I basically trained nearly every day, weight training in the afternoon, and aerobic training at night. The weight training was on a 6 way split as follows: chest/back/delts/bis/tris/legs and then repeat cycle. For aerobic training I ran for 15 to 20 min per day, at a 6 min per mile pace.
[/quote
Right. What was your diet like.
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I basically had the standard 3 meals a day. BREAKFAST: Captain crunch ceral with a splash of milk and 2 or 3 cups of coffee with milk and sugar LUNCH: Wendy's double cheeseburger and a large Dr. Pepper DINNER: 2 burritos from Taco Bell and a large Coke. Of course the diet varied somewhat, like instead of a Wendy's double cheeseburger, maybe a whopper with cheese from BK, or a quarter pounder with cheese from Mickey D's, and I NEVER ate tuna with water, skinless chicken breast, etc.
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I basically had the standard 3 meals a day. BREAKFAST: Captain crunch ceral with a splash of milk and 2 or 3 cups of coffee with milk and sugar LUNCH: Wendy's double cheeseburger and a large Dr. Pepper DINNER: 2 burritos from Taco Bell and a large Coke. Of course the diet varied somewhat, like instead of a Wendy's double cheeseburger, maybe a whopper with cheese from BK, or a quarter pounder with cheese from Mickey D's, and I NEVER ate tuna with water, skinless chicken breast, etc.
You think you can crack it again with a slower metabolism dj?
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Yeah man, I'm pretty sure that I can. I just can't afford to be a pussy, and I got to be sure and hammer the hard training day in and day out. THAT IS THE KEY. FYI, my "diet" is a bit different now, it basically goes like this: BREAKFAST: 4 oz of cheese 2 or 3 cups of coffee with milk and sugar LUNCH: 3 or 4 scrambled eggs and gummi bears DINNER: 6 oz of chicken breast 5 or 6 chocolate chip cookies. THE HARD AND CONSISTANT TRAINING WILL LEAD ME TO THE PROMISED LAND, well, at least I think so ;D
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I basically had the standard 3 meals a day. BREAKFAST: Captain crunch ceral with a splash of milk and 2 or 3 cups of coffee with milk and sugar LUNCH: Wendy's double cheeseburger and a large Dr. Pepper DINNER: 2 burritos from Taco Bell and a large Coke. Of course the diet varied somewhat, like instead of a Wendy's double cheeseburger, maybe a whopper with cheese from BK, or a quarter pounder with cheese from Mickey D's, and I NEVER ate tuna with water, skinless chicken breast, etc.
well of course you can get laaner on junk food. However, since cleaning out my diet I am growing better. Even my complexion and skin appears to have a healthier glow. I have wayy more energy as well. Junk food makes me feel like shit,headaches, bloated, breakouts,etcetc.
I challenge anyone to clean up their diet to just meat,fish,fruits, veggies, eggs...and come to me in a month. You wont even want to eat junk. This is coming from a guy who loves junk more than anyone. And dj all your doing is setting yourself up to age prematurely, diabetes, insulin resistance, so on. Sugar also supresses the immune system and the stronger the immune system the easier it is to gain muscle mass and recover.
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Yeah man, I'm pretty sure that I can. I just can't afford to be a pussy, and I got to be sure and hammer the hard training day in and day out. THAT IS THE KEY. FYI, my "diet" is a bit different now, it basically goes like this: BREAKFAST: 4 oz of cheese 2 or 3 cups of coffee with milk and sugar LUNCH: 3 or 4 scrambled eggs and gummi bears DINNER: 6 oz of chicken breast 5 or 6 chocolate chip cookies. THE HARD AND CONSISTANT TRAINING WILL LEAD ME TO THE PROMISED LAND, well, at least I think so ;D
all I see is cancer. I mean at least add some blueberries with the sugar ;)
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well of course you can get laaner on junk food. However, since cleaning out my diet I am growing better. Even my complexion and skin appears to have a healthier glow. I have wayy more energy as well. Junk food makes me feel like shit,headaches, bloated, breakouts,etcetc.
I challenge anyone to clean up their diet to just meat,fish,fruits, veggies, eggs...and come to me in a month. You wont even want to eat junk. This is coming from a guy who loves junk more than anyone. And dj all your doing is setting yourself up to age prematurely, diabetes, insulin resistance, so on. Sugar also supresses the immune system and the stronger the immune system the easier it is to gain muscle mass and recover.
I have noticed the headaches and general unhealthy feeling a lot when eating junk food. The ammount of crap they put in processed food is unbelievable. Problem is i have a sweet tooth and basically live on sweet crap, luckily i have a super fast metabolism but it's probably killing me inside lol.
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Good point about the possible health issues, but I'm convinced that GENETICS PLAY A HUGE ROLE with regards to health. My great grandmother, God rest her soul, lived to be 96 years old, and she had a terrible diet. Fatty, greasy food, a half a gallon of ice cream per day, did ZERO exercise, and had a full and healthy 96 years. Lived on her own after my grandfather died, which happened when she was 62. Also, they was a thread someone posted about a nutrition professor who dropped 20 some pounds on a shit "diet" and he also lost a pound or 2 or muscle, and his health markers greatly improved. Now that shocked the shit out of me, basically the fact that his health markers improved. BTW, I just fucked up my stationary bike, so now I either gotta pay to get it fixed, or just start running.
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Midnight woodland running, i did that everyday for about a year, very medaditive. Fucking exercise bike...... ;)
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I hear ya man! Plus I can use one of my old psyching techniques, tricking my mind that some crazy psychopath is chasing me and wants to try and kill me ;D But this "psych out" only works at night ;D
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I basically had the standard 3 meals a day. BREAKFAST: Captain crunch ceral with a splash of milk and 2 or 3 cups of coffee with milk and sugar LUNCH: Wendy's double cheeseburger and a large Dr. Pepper DINNER: 2 burritos from Taco Bell and a large Coke. Of course the diet varied somewhat, like instead of a Wendy's double cheeseburger, maybe a whopper with cheese from BK, or a quarter pounder with cheese from Mickey D's, and I NEVER ate tuna with water, skinless chicken breast, etc.
this diet can work but you gotta do alot of repetions
this type of diet would work for some as long as they can do the reps
if they dont do the reps they will get fat
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And that's my whole point falcon, IF ONE TRAINS THEIR ASS OFF THEN THEY HAVE A LICENSE TO EAT AS THEY PLEASE.
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And that's my whole point falcon, IF ONE TRAINS THEIR ASS OFF THEN THEY HAVE A LICENSE TO EAT AS THEY PLEASE.
Then let'S stop this bullshit discussion here and come back after a year of eating junk food all day.
You are in good shape now, let's talk again after a year of junk food.
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I'm in good shape fitness wise, seeing that I just ran a mile in a little over 6 min, but... I look like shit, seeing that I'm sitting at 12% which is horrible by the way, but I will hit sub-7 by the end of march.
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too many people looking for an easy way out
the only time I get shredded eating shit is when I'm busting my ass in the field
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Good point about the possible health issues, but I'm convinced that GENETICS PLAY A HUGE ROLE with regards to health. My great grandmother, God rest her soul, lived to be 96 years old, and she had a terrible diet. Fatty, greasy food, a half a gallon of ice cream per day, did ZERO exercise, and had a full and healthy 96 years. Lived on her own after my grandfather died, which happened when she was 62. Also, they was a thread someone posted about a nutrition professor who dropped 20 some pounds on a shit "diet" and he also lost a pound or 2 or muscle, and his health markers greatly improved. Now that shocked the shit out of me, basically the fact that his health markers improved. BTW, I just fucked up my stationary bike, so now I either gotta pay to get it fixed, or just start running.
nothing wrong with a little junk food brother. But when the only vitamins you get are from captain crunch your setting yourself up to fail in physique wise and health. Genetics my ass lol high fructose corn syrup (which is in everythng today) is the absolute worse thing you can put in your body and has been actually prooven to exelerate the aging process. If your like me and want to still look young and pull ass in your thirties forties or hell late twenties one day you will change your diet.I believe this is extremely important to the enhanced athlete due to the extreme abuse the body goes through. Look at Trey Brewers diet and look at how old and unhealthy looks..look at Spike on this board the fella looks 50 and eats muscle milk and tacos all day long...wonder why....now look at evan centopontio looks great and young because of his nutritious diet . I think at least 1 gram per pound of bw protein maybe more, organic fruits and veggies are vital. Avoid simple carbs as much as possible. Here is what I ate today
1 pound of orange roughy
1 ound of extra lean ground beef
bag of blueberries and a cup of cherries
bowl of spinach and brocolli
2 greek yogurts
couple egg
feel like a god. I am only in my first week of a short mni 8 week test cycle at 500mg and am growing better than I did at 750. Shows wht a health diet can do. I tried the whole bullshit gh15 diet of eaing sushi mcdonalds etc and it sucks. Unless your on growth hormonem YES clean diet matters
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When you guys diet down do you change how you lift at all? Obviously dj keeps the pedal to the metal ;D, but what about the rest?
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When you guys diet down do you change how you lift at all? Obviously dj keeps the pedal to the metal ;D, but what about the rest?
I lift the same all the time, there's no need to go "light" or have more reps when you diet.
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When you guys diet down do you change how you lift at all? Obviously dj keeps the pedal to the metal ;D, but what about the rest?
for me it depends on drugs and dosages. on 500mg test for example I dont go over 275 on bench and 50 for curls cause you just maintan pretty much.
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Hey C, you MUST NOT let your training loads go down, if you do YOU WILL look like shit (flat, no roundness or "pop" to yo muscles)
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Why is it so hard to believe Wavelength has gotten his results eating like he did? Plenty of people have done the same without drugs or anything similar.
they must have all used heavy drugs and fat burners and lied about it
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they must have all used heavy drugs and fat burners and lied about it
Probably....people are set in their ways and can't believe anything that goes against it.
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And again, for the 1000th time:
You lose weight because you lose MUSCLE and water. Your diet forces the body to pile on more fat once your metabolism has adopted to the lower calorie intake. There are no "vast improvements", you are still a fat slob and look like shit.
What basically happens in your diet is what all fat women have done 10000 times in their lives:
First phase: you lose weight, in you case muscle due to the poor quality of food because of lower calories.
Second phase: body has adapted to lower calories and stops losing weight, instead start to STORE fat because he fears lower calories coming up again. It's called "yo-yo" effect, read it up.
Then you lower calories again and it starts all over again. With your diet, you will not lose weight, you will get fatter and fatter and fatter.
Now with that other idiot, dj181, what happens is safe and EVERY ONE that has been on low BF and started to bulk has experienced this:
In the first few weeks, how long it lasts depends on the person, you start building up muscle, if you protein intake is high, caloric intake is high and training frequence is high. You look as if you lose fat and build muscle at the same time, and exactly that is also happening. It's called REBOUND.
But this will not last long, you will start getting fat when your diet sucks. You will even start getting fat with a clean bulking diet when you have a caloric excess, but the results will be much better on a clean diet.
I have said this a few times here before: When you want to start a diet, UP you calories by 1000 AND at the same time also BURN 1500 calories more ed, and you results will be much better. You will have a much higher metabolism, and much higher level of physical activity, combining both will result in much better results than doing just one, but it is also much harder.
From this starting point, you can start reducing calories and activity level and diet on from a much better starting point, which means you will have higher calories over the whole diet.
hahahahahahahahahahaha you are very stupid.
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hahahahahahahahahahaha you are very stupid.
no no no, you are the fool, fatty.eat your kitkat and go to sleep.
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:D
(http://www.eatnineghost.com/wp-content/uploads/lose180/image02.jpg)
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no no no, you are the fool, fatty.eat your kitkat and go to sleep.
i've already had a snicker, a white peanut reece cup, and a nice chicken tikka masala.
enjoy your baked potato and tuna.
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Here's the trick, I've got pictures of my grandfather from the war. He had an outstanding physique, something like Steve Reeves.
Eat like people did in the first half of the 20th century, go a little heavy on the protein. Get some good cardio.
Works like a charm.
Post the pic.
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this diet can work but you gotta do alot of repetions
this type of diet would work for some as long as they can do the reps
if they dont do the reps they will get fat
ok , lemme write all this down... lol ::) ::) ::) ::)
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cardio is important even when trying to put on size
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How so Ex? Is it because consisant cardio keeps the metabolism revved up? Or because of the "chemical release" caused by hard cardio training?
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I've never done cardio getting ready for a show (no fat burners ) just a strict diet.
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How so Ex? Is it because consisant cardio keeps the metabolism revved up? Or because of the "chemical release" caused by hard cardio training?
I find it keeps my metablism high, plus the fitter you are the more energy you have and the faster you recover
I imagine too that good cardio would translate into better pumps and cock-like vascularity
at least that's my personal experience
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Good point Ex, but there is an idea/theroy that cardio cuts into and depletes recovery ability. P.S. I hate you che 8) You are my arch-nemisis as everything you do is nearly directly the opposite of everything that I do. But I gotta give you props coz you looked fucking OUTSTANDING, and even my girl got a wet pus-y when she saw your pic.
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Good point Ex, but there is an idea/theroy that cardio cuts into and depletes recovery ability. P.S. I hate you che 8) You are my arch-nemisis as everything you do is nearly directly the opposite of everything that I do. But I gotta give you props coz you looked fucking OUTSTANDING, and even my girl got a wet pus-y when she saw your pic.
What works for me may not work for you .
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Good point Ex, but there is an idea/theroy that cardio cuts into and depletes recovery ability. P.S. I hate you che 8) You are my arch-nemisis as everything you do is nearly directly the opposite of everything that I do. But I gotta give you props coz you looked fucking OUTSTANDING, and even my girl got a wet pus-y when she saw your pic.
heres a hint - its not really che ;)
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Come on Panda, I know that you're a very skeptical fella, but I believe that che speaks the truth, well at least when he claimed that's him in that pic ;) Anyway, what's the scientific literature say about aerobic training cutting into recovery ability? Also, it's been proven that running more than 35 miles weekly drops test levels.
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Come on Panda, I know that you're a very skeptical fella, but I believe that che speaks the truth, well at least when he claimed that's him in that pic ;) Anyway, what's the scientific literature say about aerobic training cutting into recovery ability? Also, it's been proven that running more than 35 miles weekly drops test levels.
its not him.
science says endurance activities like running can very well eat into your recovery abilities. it also transforms the muscle fibres to the smaller endurance type 1 kind.
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Allright, so how much is too much? After my track and cross-country days, I never ran more than 20 miles a week tops. Do you have anything specific in this regard?
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Indeed.
FP has done exactly SHIT in five months using his "irrefutable" methods.
Meanwhile someone using a standard "bro-science' diet could have gotten competition- lean in that time frame.
Also TA and Wavelength are both lying through their teeth about their methods
Despite what you may believe, I am not lying. I eat whatever I want.
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Allright, so how much is too much? After my track and cross-country days, I never ran more than 20 miles a week tops. Do you have anything specific in this regard?
i would imagine any activity that is primarily aerobic in nature. this could be lifting pink dumbbells like gene does, or jogging or running long distances.
energy systems come into play here, although if you listen to coach you should do every energy system at once. ::)
science tells us we should split up training, keeping the energy systems as far apart as possible.
specifically to bodybuilding - studies show cardio and weights together interfere with each other.
i do both together because it can't be helped with my time management and its simply convenient for me. however it is not optimal for muscle and strength gains nor endurance/cardiovascular gains either.
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They both used fat burning agents to achieve their lean state, and lied about what they ate.
fatpanda, to his credit, has played it straight...and has very little progress to show for it
I don`t use anything unless you want to call Pepsi Max and my Bialetti something which they are not.
Furthermore, I have logged months at a time what I have eaten and so has Wavelength. Why on earth would we waste the time by putting things down we don`t eat?
Look Groink, just because you can`t grasp it and the fact that YOU CAN`T and WON`T do it our way, has no bearing whatsoever on our approach.
How would you like me to prove you wrong so we don`t have to have any more threads such as this one ever again?
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As far as wave and adullis goes, they claim that it's possible to get into contest condition without hard training, and I call bullshit on that one.
Can you please show where I or Wavelength have ever said that?
Training at least 2-3 days a week minimum is necessary if you want to have a bit of muscle to show.
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I look at it from a common sense standpoint.....there are thousands of nutritionists and doctors that have been trying to make a buck selling diets for 50 years....but these three guys on Getbig have managed to figure out a way to get ripped while eating whatever you want....sorry, not buying it.
Add to the equation that the "pioneer" of this approach is the biggest bullshitter here ;)
The total amount of Calories as being the single most important fact of weight loss has been the FDA`s position since its inception and it of course still remains so. It is certainly nothing new. Hope this helps.
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Exactly. It's kinda like eating candy and other garbage = cable curls, while eating clean is like doing barbell curls. Your biceps will grow from doing the former, but a lot more from the latter, going by that loose analogy.
At the end of the day, Philosophy is proven only by it's results. Take twins and make one eat the clean diet while the other eats garbage, with both of them doing the same workout - over time, the twin eating the healthier food is going to be stronger and more muscular, as well as look and feel better.
Iv`e done both and "eating clean" was worse for me if we judge on how I looked and my strength. Both were much worse when "eating clean".
I have two years worth of "clean eating" logs on MuscleMayhem where I posted daily and did not deviate one bit. It was a horrible approach which yielded poor results when compared to eating like a normal human being, which is around 2000-3000 calories or anything I feel like with total variation.
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Iv`e done both and "eating clean" was worse for me if we judge on how I looked and my strength. Both were much worse when "eating clean".
I have two years worth of "clean eating" logs on MuscleMayhem where I posted daily and did not deviate one bit. It was a horrible approach which yielded poor results when compared to eating like a normal human being, which is around 2000-3000 calories or anything I feel like with total variation.
Ditto, and I had the opposite effect of what you had - felt great and was stronger when I ate quality meat and carb meals that I prepared at home, and not so much when I was eating at McDs and KFC (which I love).
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heres a hint - its not really che ;)
Hahaa You are fat , I'm not .
Che 1 Fatpanda 0
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When you say that they interfere with each other, do you mean that if you do them both on the same day, or just in general? For example, is it better to do cardio one day, and then weights the next day, instead of doing them on the same day?
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I never run and lift weights in the same session
if I do pt twice a day then I'll go for a run in the morning and go to the gym in the afternoon with at least two solid meals in between
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I did the opposite Ex, I would lift in the afternoon, and then run at nite. I asked the previous question, coz I plan on lifting every 48 hours, and not everyday, like I did when I hit my peak condition.
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Hahaa You are fat , I'm not .
Che 1 Fatpanda 0
i may be fat but that pic isn't you.
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Ditto, and I had the opposite effect of what you had - felt great and was stronger when I ate quality meat and carb meals that I prepared at home, and not so much when I was eating at McDs and KFC (which I love).
I eat high quality stuff and always have as well as fast food etc...
I don`t understand the all or nothing approach. You can eat a Prime Cut of Steak and a Wendy`s Frosty in the same day you know.
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i may be fat but that pic isn't you.
Haha , I have a beautiful wife ,you have a fat hand .
Che 2 Fatpanda 0
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Haha , I have a beautiful wife ,you have a fat hand .
Che 2 Fatpanda 0
so you claim ::) as could i.
but at the end of the day you are a liar and that pic still isn't you.
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so you claim ::) as could i.
but at the end of the day you are a liar and that pic still isn't you.
Hhaha, I see my dick everyday ,you haven't see yours in 20 years .
Che 3 Fatpanda 0
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Hhaha, I see my dick everyday ,you haven't see yours in 20 years .
Che 3 Fatpanda 0
so you claim ::) as could i.
but at the end of the day you are a liar and that pic still isn't you.
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I don`t understand the all or nothing approach. You can eat a Prime Cut of Steak and a Wendy`s Frosty in the same day you know.
True, and I never said it has to be all or nothing. I eat out at least 2 - 3 times a week. I just like eating the major part of my caloric intake in the form of food that I prepare at home.
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let me stop you there che ::)
before you try 4-0 5-0 etc
claiming i have no house
i have no job
i have poor health
i am bald
i am a fag
etc
i know exactly who you are, and its not the guy in that pic you keep pretending to be.
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let me stop you there che ::)
before you try 4-0 5-0 etc
claiming i have no house
i have no job
i have poor health
i am bald
i am a fag
etc
i know exactly who you are, and its not the guy in that pic you keep pretending to be.
Hhaha , meltdown
I win.
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True, and I never said it has to be all or nothing. I eat out at least 2 - 3 times a week. I just like eating the major part of my caloric intake in the form of food that I prepare at home.
Me Too.
I haven`t been eating out much at all lately. I have been starting the the day with Tamago Gohan the past 4 days and I still am not tired of it. Monster balanced breakfast when coupled with orange juice and vegetable juice.
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Allright, I've got a question for all here, and this question is irregardless of "diet" and this question is: Is it possible to achieve an outstanding level of fitness without performing "cardio"? Basically, can one train with weights, and only with weights, 2 or 3 times a week and be outstandingly fit, just like Arthur Jones claimed was possible? Via his "West Point Study"
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, can one train with weights, and only with weights, 2 or 3 times a week and be outstandingly fit,
Absolutely
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Hhaha , meltdown
I win.
;D
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Hhaha , meltdown
I win.
afraid not b.
only the smart survive here - you unfortunately for you, are not smart.
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I did the opposite Ex, I would lift in the afternoon, and then run at nite. I asked the previous question, coz I plan on lifting every 48 hours, and not everyday, like I did when I hit my peak condition.
last time I did that, dj was Canada Day a couple years ago
I beasted myself on the run and woke up the next day sick as fuck (I NEVER get sick either)
the way I figure it is that lifting weights breaks your body down thus you need more time to recover via solid food and a good night sleep
maybe it's because I never go for "just a run" - when I run I go all out
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Allright, I've got a question for all here, and this question is irregardless of "diet" and this question is: Is it possible to achieve an outstanding level of fitness without performing "cardio"? Basically, can one train with weights, and only with weights, 2 or 3 times a week and be outstandingly fit, just like Arthur Jones claimed was possible? Via his "West Point Study"
Yes. 100 percent of the time.
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But when I say outstandingly fit, I'm not just talking about looking the part (which is important for vain people like moi) I'm talking about being able to go out and run a mile in under 6 min and/or passing a cardio-vascular fitness test with flying colors. So then if this is possible through only weight training 2 or 3 times a week, then how is it so? Performing circuit or PHA-style training, with very short rest btw work sets?
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What are you people running from? Vampires? Gay bashers? What?
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Allright, I've got a question for all here, and this question is irregardless of "diet" and this question is: Is it possible to achieve an outstanding level of fitness without performing "cardio"? Basically, can one train with weights, and only with weights, 2 or 3 times a week and be outstandingly fit, just like Arthur Jones claimed was possible? Via his "West Point Study"
Yes I agree its possible, depending obviously on how you train.
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Well man, I gots to run from every possible physical threat dat comes ma way, coz I gots no power to ma punches and top it off wit a glass jaw, so running is ma only option ;D P.S. I got really fast hands but it don't mean sh!t if there's no power to ma punch
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But when I say outstandingly fit, I'm not just talking about looking the part (which is important for vain people like moi) I'm talking about being able to go out and run a mile in under 6 min and/or passing a cardio-vascular fitness test with flying colors. So then if this is possible through only weight training 2 or 3 times a week, then how is it so? Performing circuit or PHA-style training, with very short rest btw work sets?
Depends I think you are a Arthur Jones fan, some of his stuff is related to this specific events like say a javelin throw or like running a sub 4 minute mile you have to to practice those specific events but just overall health and such weight training can take care of if it done in a matter that constitutes some cardovascular stimulation.
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Well man, I gots to run from every possible physical threat dat comes ma way, coz I gots no power to ma punches and top it off wit a glass jaw, so running is ma only option ;D P.S. I got really fast hands but it don't mean sh!t if there's no power to ma punch
haha, my theory is that I can't outrun anybody anymore so if I do, I would just be easier to beat up when they catch me....since I would be exhausted. Best to stay and throw hands quickly. ;D
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Ok JP, so how can one train to achieve it? Is it through circuit PHA training?
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haha, my theory is that I can't outrun anybody anymore so if I do, I would just be easier to beat up when they catch me....since I would be exhausted. Best to stay and throw hands quickly. ;D
Best just to pack a .357 magnum then no running or throwing hands is required.
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Keeping your heart rate elevated during the whole training session, which can be done by proper high intensity sets and short rest periods. Circuit PHA training will definitively work too.
I don't understood why people say we 'need' steady state cardio for heart health, the heart doesn't know what you're doing when it comes to exercise, all it knows is it musst work harder: pump more blood when muscles are working hard.
Most people that say that weight training does nothing for the heart are people that: 1. train with shit-low intensity 2. rest too long between sets/exercises, thus any heart rate elevation subsides.
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And short high intensity type of cardio like sprints, prowler, hiit, etc. is much better than any steady state cardio for cardiovascular conditioning as well.
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just had 20 piecve nugs
file o fish meal w diet
and eaitng my reece mcflury
I am follower fo non clean abs route (http://www.shakadula.com/p90x/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/RippedAbs.jpg)
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I hear ya JP, but I'm trying to figure out a way to incorporate both heart training and muscle training within the same program. The problem with circut PHA training, or even the type of weight training that you described, is what about warm-ups? If you don't warm-up before each different exercise, then your performance will be sub par, if you really want to train with heavy loads. And if you do warm-up properly for each exercise, then it's impossible to keep up an elevated pulse rate.
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I would say only warm up for the first exercise or the major bodyparts depending on how many bp you're training on a given session.
Or just don't take too long to warmup and try to keep your heart rate elevated as much as possible.
One thing is for sure, if someone is not used to training with shortened rest periods, weights will come down.
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I suppose that I can give it a go, as I am experimenting with slo-mo reps now, which makes it necessary not to use such heavy training loads, and requires a less through warm-up. Although, I'm still kinda scared about the fact that at least 3 min btw work sets are required in order to fully replenish ATP-PC stores for maximum power output btw sets. But, fuck it! I'll just try and deal with it.
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Try it and see if it works for you.
I thought you already trained like this though, since you like Arthur Jones stuff so much, he recommended training like this in some way.
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Not exactly man, I like AJ's stuff, particullary about intensity and progressive overload, but it's just not possible to use really heavy training loads if you race from one set to the next, because it takes 3 or 4 min to fully replenish ATP-PC stores. And yeah, I'll try and give it a run. By the way, I have one last question for ya. What do you think of Tim Ferris gaining 34 pounds of lean muscle tissue in 4 weeks time only training twice a week? Type in "from geek to freak" into google, if you don't know who I'm talking about.
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it's like, and with all due respect to the threadstarter, how can you hang on the "every word" of a obese, virgin who has never played a competitive sport in his life?
I mean, that weighs (no pun intended) a lot on the intelligence of a person
Shut up you ball gravy lusting twink. You're just jealous that all the attention isn't on your emaciated 6 pack. ;D
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Well, I think part of it was muscle memory too since he said he had lost muscle before starting his experiment.
His before and after pics aren't that impressive anyway, I really doubt that is 34 lbs of muscle gain. You can never know, maybe he is lying or maybe he is not.
His diet was stupid in my opinion though.
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Keeping your heart rate elevated during the whole training session, which can be done by proper high intensity sets and short rest periods. Circuit PHA training will definitively work too.
I don't understood why people say we 'need' steady state cardio for heart health, the heart doesn't know what you're doing when it comes to exercise, all it knows is it musst work harder: pump more blood when muscles are working hard.
Most people that say that weight training does nothing for the heart are people that: 1. train with shit-low intensity 2. rest too long between sets/exercises, thus any heart rate elevation subsides.
if you want to build muscle you need to rest between sets. Workouts are for growing muscle. Let diet control fat loss.
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That's exactly where my fear comes from tbombz, one can't keep the work loads high if they rush btw work sets, it just isn't possible.
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That's exactly where my fear comes from tbombz, one can't keep the work loads high if they rush btw work sets, it just isn't possible.
X2 they need to be separated.
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So you guys really don't change how you lift at all when dieting down? I ask because almost as soon as I cut my calories I started feeling even more run down than usual. I'm about to start hitting every body part once a week instead of twice a week, to see if that helps.
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A clean diet does not build a better physique.
It makes you more healthy, less toxins in your body, but doesn't really do much for the aesthetic appearance of your body.
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Well c, if you can hold on to your strength as you cut the cals then you will keep and hold on to the muscle that you do have. It's quite simple really, if strength goes down then size will go down. Remember, a weaker muscle is a smaller muscle.
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A clean diet does not build a better physique.
It makes you more healthy, less toxins in your body, but doesn't really do much for the aesthetic appearance of your body.
BULLSHIT
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Well c, if you can hold on to your strength as you cut the cals then you will keep and hold on to the muscle that you do have. It's quite simple really, if strength goes down then size will go down. Remember, a weaker muscle is a smaller muscle.
Yeah I know all that but it's like... at first I was deadlifting 425 for a double, then hit a couple lighter sets at 225-275... the very next time I came in I felt like my back was going to snap off at 315... obviously I didn't lose THAT much muscle over a week so I'm thinking the training is just too much somehow.
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BULLSHIT
X2 with a serious fucking in front of bullshit,=fucking bullshit.
Eat clean,train hard,do cardio,rest/sleep,fucking repeat!!!
End of story retards!!! :(
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BULLSHIT
There's nothing bullshit about it.
But people on this website argue about this topic endlessly. So i'm not surprised someone disagrees with me.
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X2 with a serious fucking in front of bullshit,=fucking bullshit.
Eat clean,train hard,do cardio,rest/sleep,fucking repeat!!!
End of story retards!!! :(
Sure ya can chow some junk food every now and then...Just ate a pint of chocolate icecream... :P But if I ate crap all the time, I'd feel like crap and look like crap..See the correlation
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A clean diet + genetics leads to very surprising results.
A clean diet + no genetics leads to a sad reality :(
I've been there more than I should with boyfriends :(
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Feeling physically good has absolutely nothing to do with a "clean diet" it is all based upon an extremely high level of fitness. If you are supremely fit, you will feel supremely good, either on a clean diet or a dirty diet. Extreme level of fitness=Extreme level of feeling good 8)
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Well c ma man, what you could do is cut down on the training loads for awhile, while the cals are down, and then once you go back to a normal cal intake then jack the training loads back up, and you could try a "cycle diet" say 3 days lo cal followed by 2 day normal cal, and then put your heavy training day on the 2nd day of your normal cal cycle. Also, I believe that fats are real important to keeping strength levels high, while on a reduced calorie diet. I prefered saturated fat from cheeseburgers and french fries ;D
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The problem is that there is no scientific definition of "clean" food. It's a bullshit made up term. So any discussion about it is pointless.
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You make a good point wave, but if you say to anyone that has any experience with training "clean diet vs. dirty diet" they will know exactly what you are talking about.
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You make a good point wave, but if you say to anyone that has any experience with training "clean diet vs. dirty diet" they will know exactly what you are talking about.
I don't think so. With all the different bodybuilding diets out there, everyone means something different by a "clean" diet. In the end it just means everything that is "allowed" in a certain diet.
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X2 with a serious fucking in front of bullshit,=fucking bullshit.
Eat clean,train hard,do cardio,rest/sleep,fucking repeat!!!
End of story retards!!! :(
Why don't you skinny twinks and fat idiots just listen to wes?
This is 100% spot on.
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X2 with a serious fucking in front of bullshit,=fucking bullshit.
Eat clean,train hard,do cardio,rest/sleep,fucking repeat!!!
End of story retards!!! :(
Agreed - I've proved this on myself in the last six months - ther's not a lot of junk in my diet anymore and I'm still working on eating clean food in larger quantites but I'm getting there - there has been a definite positive difference in my physique as a result.
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Eat clean,train hard,do cardio,rest/sleep,fucking repeat!!!
That's too hard.
Fuck that , I rather spend 10 years of my life trying to find an easier way and talk about it on the internets.
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That's too hard.
Fuck that , I rather spend 10 years of my life trying to find an easier way and talk about it on the internets.
LOL!!
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Train hard-check. Do cardio-check. Rest/sleep-check. Eat clean-ROFL!
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X2 with a serious fucking in front of bullshit,=fucking bullshit.
Eat clean,train hard,do cardio,rest/sleep,fucking repeat!!!
End of story retards!!! :(
Well, that's the 'traditional' way of doing it, but it doesn't mean its the only way or the 'correct' way.
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Well, that's the 'traditional' way of doing it, but it doesn't mean its the only way or the 'correct' way.
exactly.
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Clean is a relative word. Take for example, saturated fat. If you're natural/clean, then you can't afford to cut them out as they help keep test levels up. However, when on gear you are relying on synthetic hormones, whilst your own diminish, this is when you can afford to keep saturates lower. Same thing with protein and carbs, drugs/genetics are going to determine the parameters.
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just had 20 piecve nugs
file o fish meal w diet
and eaitng my reece mcflury
I am follower fo non clean abs route (http://www.shakadula.com/p90x/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/RippedAbs.jpg)
Who's the skinny twink ???
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That's a great point about the saturated fat PJim. I went from 167 @ 9% to 157 @ 7% while eating "clean" I basically eliminated saturated fats, sugar, and high glycemic foods, and I got weak and flat and lost too much muscle, roughly 7 of those 10 lost pounds was muscle. I AM ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED, that if I would have followed a dirty diet at that time, instead of a clean one, I would have lost maybe 2 pounds of muscle in order to go from 9% to 7% instead of losing 7 pounds of muscle.
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I look at it from a common sense standpoint.....there are thousands of nutritionists and doctors that have been trying to make a buck selling diets for 50 years....but these three guys on Getbig have managed to figure out a way to get ripped while eating whatever you want....sorry, not buying it.
Add to the equation that the "pioneer" of this approach is the biggest bullshitter here ;)
Most doctors and nutritionists with scientific background (if they remember what they have learned in their studies) will agree that the single most important factor for both weight and fat loss is total calories.
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Most doctors and nutritionists with scientific background (if they remember what they have learned in their studies) will agree that the single most important factor for both weight and fat loss is total calories.
Do not waste your time.
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That's too hard.
Fuck that , I rather spend 10 years of my life trying to find an easier way and talk about it on the internets.
LMAO !
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Do not waste your time.
I don't, I love this place
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Most doctors and nutritionists with scientific background (if they remember what they have learned in their studies) will agree that the single most important factor for both weight and fat loss is total calories.
This ^ X2.
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Feeling physically good has absolutely nothing to do with a "clean diet" it is all based upon an extremely high level of fitness. If you are supremely fit, you will feel supremely good, either on a clean diet or a dirty diet. Extreme level of fitness=Extreme level of feeling good 8)
No. Fucking retarded bro.
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I can only speak for myself in this regard, and I basically ate very healthy a few months back (plenty of fresh fruits and vegtables, etc) and honestly I really didn't feel much different. Now, I have greatly improved my fitness level (just 2 months ago, I could just bearly break an 8 min mile, now I can run a 6 min mile) and guess what? I feel physically fantastic ;D So, this healthy diet made me feel a bit better, but... Getting into good condition made me feel MUCH BETTER
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I can only speak for myself in this regard, and I basically ate very healthy a few months back (plenty of fresh fruits and vegtables, etc) and honestly I really didn't feel much different. Now, I have greatly improved my fitness level (just 2 months ago, I could just bearly break an 8 min mile, now I can run a 6 min mile) and guess what? I feel physically fantastic ;D So, this healthy diet made me feel a bit better, but... Getting into good condition made me feel MUCH BETTER
How do you know that your diet was that much healthier then? Even (real) expert's opinions on the subject change every year.
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How do you know that your diet was that much healthier then? Even (real) expert's opinions on the subjects change every year.
Careful. If you bring such relativism into the argument, you basically void your own thesis. ;D
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Careful. If you bring such relativism into the argument, you basically void your own thesis. ;D
Not really since I've never made any claims about health. I'm not a doctor.
Regarding fat loss however, (real) expert's opinions haven't changed in eons.
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Not really since I've never made any claims about health. I'm not a doctor.
Regarding fat loss however, (real) expert's opinions haven't changed in eons.
Um. You just said they change every year. ;)
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No he didn't. He said that about health, not fat loss.
Fat loss/diet!? Fair enough, but it's a niggardly discrepancy. (no racist)
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The problem is that there is no scientific definition of "clean" food. It's a bullshit made up term. So any discussion about it is pointless.
No scientific definition but its understood that clean food = low fat & low sugar.
I believe clean food is a bit overrated, but I also think if you're eating low calories + junk food its hard to get your min. protein so you are kinda forced to eat clean most of the time.
For example if you're trying to get lean on a 2000 calorie diet with 200 grams of protein, that alone gives 800 calories, so you have 1200 to play with...chances are that even from lean meat sources you'll have an extra 400 calories from animal fat and carbs from sauces to make it taste decent, so now you only have 800 more calories to play with, and you need your fiber...even a high fiber carb source will have a total of about 300 calories to get your daily fiber intake, now you only have 500 calories left, so that's what - one small burger from a fast food restaurant per day? While most other meals are clean. That would work, but you're still forced to eat clean most of the time if you want to keep protein high (while not drinking gross whey isolate or egg whites), enough fiber, and low overall calories.
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No scientific definition but its understood that clean food = low fat & low sugar.
I believe clean food is a bit overrated, but I also think if you're eating low calories + junk food its hard to get your min. protein so you are kinda forced to eat clean most of the time.
For example if you're trying to get lean on a 2000 calorie diet with 200 grams of protein, that alone gives 800 calories, so you have 1200 to play with...chances are that even from lean meat sources you'll have an extra 400 calories from animal fat and carbs from sauces to make it taste decent, so now you only have 800 more calories to play with, and you need your fiber...even a high fiber carb source will have a total of about 300 calories to get your daily fiber intake, now you only have 500 calories left, so that's what - one small burger from a fast food restaurant per day? While most other meals are clean. That would work, but you're still forced to eat clean most of the time if you want to keep protein high (while not drinking gross whey isolate or egg whites), enough fiber, and low overall calories.
i agree with this post.
i couldn't do my diet without protein shakes helping make up the numbers.
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Why do people insist on eating junkfood on a diet?? You just keep making sorry excuses because you have have a lack of willpower. There is only one way to diet and thats the "hard" way. Clean food, cardio and weight training all the way through. However, throwing in a cheat day once a week will not do any harm and can help kick start your metabolism throughout the next week. But eating bad food consitently on a daily basis on a diet is just wrong. Good luck with hitting your numbers... ::)
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Allright wave, my non-healthy diet had ZERO vegtables and ZERO fruits. I basically had my standard breakfast of coffee and cheese. And my other meals were pizzas, cheeseburgers, french fries. Then for my healthy diet I still had the same breakfast, but I eliminated pizzas, cheeseburgers, and french fries, and I replaced them with chicken breasts, protein shakes, and fresh fruits and vegtables. So you tell me, was my second diet "healthier"?
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Why do people insist on eating junkfood on a diet?? You just keep making sorry excuses because you have have a lack of willpower. There is only one way to diet and thats the "hard" way. Clean food, cardio and weight training all the way through. However, throwing in a cheat day once a week will not do any harm and can help kick start your metabolism throughout the next week. But eating bad food consitently on a daily basis on a diet is just wrong. Good luck with hitting your numbers... ::)
i've never seen such an ironic, stupid, and contradicting post in all my years here.
i would ask for further chuckles but i've lost the will to live with some of the posts on nutrition here this past week.
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Why do people insist on eating junkfood on a diet?? You just keep making sorry excuses because you have have a lack of willpower. There is only one way to diet and thats the "hard" way. Clean food, cardio and weight training all the way through. However, throwing in a cheat day once a week will not do any harm and can help kick start your metabolism throughout the next week. But eating bad food consitently on a daily basis on a diet is just wrong. Good luck with hitting your numbers... ::)
What is bad food?
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What is bad food?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/3057328414_e94548de04_o.jpg)
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What is bad food?
If you're going to have a meal like lunch and want to eat 800 calories, you can eat steak, potatoes and a fruit salad or yoghurt, OR you can eat a couple of Snickers bars and wash it down with a bottle of Coke. The latter is bad food.
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If you're going to have a meal like lunch and want to eat 800 calories, you can eat steak, potatoes and a fruit salad or yoghurt, OR you can eat a couple of Snickers bars and wash it down with a bottle of Coke. The latter is bad food.
Good, common sense answer. Now watch Fats post up his deep-fried sophistry.
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i've never seen such an ironic, stupid, and contradicting post in all my years here.
i would ask for further chuckles but i've lost the will to live with some of the posts on nutrition here this past week.
just looking like this should be enough to have that effect on someone.
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i've never seen such an ironic, stupid, and contradicting post in all my years here.
i would ask for further chuckles but i've lost the will to live with some of the posts on nutrition here this past week.
Explain? How is it contradicting? You mean the having a cheat day once a week thing? Thats perfectly normal on a long diet. Eating bad food throughout the whole week is not.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/3057328414_e94548de04_o.jpg)
nothing wrong with having a donut, now if you're constantly binging on them its a different thing.
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If you're going to have a meal like lunch and want to eat 800 calories, you can eat steak, potatoes and a fruit salad or yoghurt, OR you can eat a couple of Snickers bars and wash it down with a bottle of Coke. The latter is bad food.
Sure, but you can have your steak, potatoes and fruit salad for lunch and later in the day have a snickers bar too and nothing bad will happen to you.
Why is a snickers bar bad? Because it has sugar? trans fat? saturated fat?
You can easily fit in a snickers bar into the calorie numbers of your normal diet and be fine eating them every once in a while.
I just don't get the idea of good vs bad foods and 'cheat' meals and the such.
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nothing wrong with having a donut, now if you're constantly binging on them its a different thing.
Amazing concept
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Its all math = you take in less than you need you lose - more you gain. Now health factors are totally different if you eat a high sugar and fat diet everyday you will run into issues sooner or later so healthy or "clean" is best but mixing it up to keep your sanity is best.
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Its all math = you take in less than you need you lose - more you gain. Now health factors are totally different if you eat a high sugar and fat diet everyday you will run into issues sooner or later so healthy or "clean" is best but mixing it up to keep your sanity is best.
Please stop trying to make sense!
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Its all math = you take in less than you need you lose - more you gain. Now health factors are totally different if you eat a high sugar and fat diet everyday you will run into issues sooner or later so healthy or "clean" is best but mixing it up to keep your sanity is best.
A calorie is a calorie
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Please stop trying to make sense!
Yes its getting on my nerves as well time for a drink. 8)
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Yes its getting on my nerves as well time for a drink. 8)
One up on you already. Get cracking, youngster. :)
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option D
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
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Sure, but you can have your steak, potatoes and fruit salad for lunch and later in the day have a snickers bar too and nothing bad will happen to you.
Why is a snickers bar bad? Because it has sugar? trans fat? saturated fat?
You can easily fit in a snickers bar into the calorie numbers of your normal diet and be fine eating them every once in a while.
I just don't get the idea of good vs bad foods and 'cheat' meals and the such.
Never said you should never eat Snickers or drink Coke. But you know what type of food should constitute the majority of your caloric intake and what shouldn't, which is the point of the whole discussion.
If you eat 5 meals a day, one of them can be Snickers and Coke, but if you consume that for 4 of the meals and eat steak and potatoes for one meal, you're going to look and feel very different than how you'd look and feel vice versa.
Amazing concept
;D
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I'll admit that sugar probably isn't all that beneficial, but I really think that saturated fat has it's place, and is very beneficial for size and strength gains.
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Amazing concept
Just let me have my donuts. >:(
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Sure, but you can have your steak, potatoes and fruit salad for lunch and later in the day have a snickers bar too and nothing bad will happen to you.
Why is a snickers bar bad? Because it has sugar? trans fat? saturated fat?
You can easily fit in a snickers bar into the calorie numbers of your normal diet and be fine eating them every once in a while.
I just don't get the idea of good vs bad foods and 'cheat' meals and the such.
Everything is "healthy" in moderation of course, but I think you will agree that a chicken breast is much healthier than a large snickers bar or a cheeseburger in terms of cals/prot/carb/fat. You also have to take low/high GI into consideration as well. The problem with most bad foods is that they increase your bloodsugar which results in the body craving for more food in less time. So very often bad food leads to more bad food to maintain the bloodsugar level. I have very often found myself very hungry in just an hour prior to consuming a large cheeseburger. Having some oatmeal with a proteinshake would be much more beneficial for the body in terms of quality macros and longterm digestion.
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Never said you should never eat Snickers or drink Coke. But you know what type of food should constitute the majority of your caloric intake and what shouldn't, which is the point of the whole discussion.
If you eat 5 meals a day, one of them can be Snickers and Coke, but if you consume that for 4 of the meals and eat steak and potatoes for one meal, you're going to look and feel very different than how you'd look and feel vice versa.
I agree with what you posted here..its just the labeling of good vs bad or cheat meals and the such that I don't agree with. Can't people just generically view food as fuel? ???
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Everything is "healthy" in moderation of course, but I think you will agree that a chicken breast is much healthier than a large snickers bar or a cheeseburger in terms of cals/prot/carb/fat. You also have to take low/high GI into consideration as well. The problem with most bad foods is that they increase your bloodsugar which results in the body craving for more food in less time. So very often bad food leads to more bad food to maintain the bloodsugar level. I have very often found myself very hungry in just an hour prior to consuming a large cheeseburger. Having some oatmeal with a proteinshake would be much more beneficial for the body in terms of quality macros and longterm digestion.
I say its individual. I feel much more satiety from a cheeseburger than from a protein shake/oatmeal meal due to the fat content. I never paid much attention to the GI of foods either, plenty of qualified people have discredited anyway.
I don't think you can compare a chicken breast with a snickers bar simply because one is pure protein and the other is not..but why not have both?
The only problem that I see with having things like cheeseburgers or candy bars in a fat loss diet is the difficulty of fitting a high calorie dense food in a tightly controlled calories diet. But some people are able to do it just fine, so it becomes a matter of convenience and simple preference imo.
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Fat loss/diet!? Fair enough, but it's a niggardly discrepancy. (no racist)
8) This guy had the key to life dont worry about it knock some HR's, eat some hotdogs, have a drink and slay hoes.
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8) This guy had the key to life dont worry about it knock some HR's, eat some hotdogs, have a drink and slay hoes.
Ha! Imagine running the bases with the nail. Ouch. :-X
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Seriously.......can everybody shut the fuck up with this nonsense already?
Indeed
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Allright fellas, I gotta stop fucking around and dial it in now and get down to a true sub-7, so I'd like to get some feedback on my plan, which is as follows: 3 days lo cal (roughly 1200) cycled with 1 day normal cal (not more than 3000) I plan to follow this "diet" for 4 weeks or until I hit sub-7. P.S. I will be getting roughly 150 grams a day on my low cal days.
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No scientific definition but its understood that clean food = low fat & low sugar.
I don't think so, in low carb or keto diets, it's perfectly fine to eat lots of fat.
Sugar is avoided in most (not all) "bodybuilding diets", but there really is no scientific reason for it, body composition wise.
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Allright fellas, I gotta stop fucking around and dial it in now and get down to a true sub-7, so I'd like to get some feedback on my plan, which is as follows: 3 days lo cal (roughly 1200) cycled with 1 day normal cal (not more than 3000) I plan to follow this "diet" for 4 weeks or until I hit sub-7. P.S. I will be getting roughly 150 grams a day on my low cal days.
It's all perfectly fine as long as you are in an overall deficit and the low cal days don't effect your workout intensity too much. If they do, just ditch the "cycling", it's irrelevant anyway.
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Bunch of pussies looking for an easy way to get ripped!!
If it was easy,everyone would be at 5 % bf.
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Bunch of pussies looking for an easy way to get ripped!!
If it was easy,everyone would be at 5 % bf.
It aint easy for most people to just put down the fork.
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It aint easy for most people to put down the fork.
This is very true,but as a bodybuilder you have to build discipline as well as your body if you wanna` get anywhere.
Wave,you and Adam are the only proponents of the "calorie is a calorie" concept that look good....most of the others are just lazy fucks who lose about 2 pounds over 6 months time. :'(
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This is very true,but as a bodybuilder you have to build discipline as well as your body if you wanna` get anywhere.
Wave,you and Adam are the only proponents of the "calorie is a calorie" concept that look good....most of the others are just lazy fucks who lose about 2 pounds over 6 months time. :'(
But wouldn't that be the same (if not even worse) if they had to follow even more strict rules?
Of course one must have enough willpower to consistently eat less. Most people simply don't.
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Allright fellas, I gotta stop fucking around and dial it in now and get down to a true sub-7, so I'd like to get some feedback on my plan, which is as follows: 3 days lo cal (roughly 1200) cycled with 1 day normal cal (not more than 3000) I plan to follow this "diet" for 4 weeks or until I hit sub-7. P.S. I will be getting roughly 150 grams a day on my low cal days.
why low and high days, just all days moderate..... very occasional treat here and there, thats if you want sub 7
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Honestly man, it's what worked best for me in the past, and as I have been reading Lyle McDonald's stuff lately, it just confirmed my beliefs. The thing that's interesting is that I 1st came across this concept of calorie cycling from the Cybergenics bodybuilding system, they advised nearly the exact same calorie cycling as McDonald does, and this cybergenics manual was 1st printed in 1985.
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(http://i53.tinypic.com/14wq2s.jpg)