Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Ugly on September 29, 2011, 05:48:40 PM
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Anyone believe in this horse shit?
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you bet cum guzzler
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Cum guzzler?
Was that really necessary?
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Cum guzzler?
Was that really necessary?
This is GB pussy. Toughen up or beat it.
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Point taken, fuckface.
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t
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Anyone believe in this horse shit?
Are you talking about pearly white gates and shit, or are talking about the astral plane type deal?
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This is GB pussy. Toughen up or beat it.
The Great Lord Humungous has spoken
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Are you talking about pearly white gates and shit, or are talking about the astral plane type deal?
Astral plane? Sounds like horse shit, too.
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Anyone believe in this horse shit?
I think it's possible that are brains are all kinda linked in some way. Like everything you've every thought is tied into something other people have thought about. I mean when was the last time you've had an original thought. I know I haven't, you think fucking the chubby girl with the wide ass is original I thinkith not. So I do believe there is a chance we are all tied into some weird forum of super brain. Lets keep that in the context of the whole speed of life fiasco.
May sound like bullshit, it's probably is, but it makes the thought of dieing less shitty. And there's nothing you can do to disprove it.
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May sound like bullshit, it's probably is, but it makes the thought of dieing less shitty.
Dying is shitty, but I think it is was it is. Nothingness.
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Remember what it was like before you were born?.... yeeeep same thing 8)
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Remember what it was like before you were born?.... yeeeep same thing 8)
Agreed.
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Dying is shitty, but I think it is was it is. Nothingness.
Well we're really shitty at thinking so don't get over confident.
Seriously if you don't understand in a meaningful way how stupid people are your missing out. I ain't talking about people like joe six pack, I'm talking about the smartest person you know, they still have a very limited ability to understand things. Einstein was so smart that he came up with a theory that the whole world believed for over a century, the billions of people that have lived since than had no ability to disprove his theory, and guess what the smartest man that ever lived turned out to be wrong all by accident.
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There is without doubt an unseen reality of personality, intelligence and power.
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"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
—Mark Twain, author.
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There is without doubt an unseen reality of personality, intelligence and power.
I believe there is no such thing. Without a doubt.
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"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
—Mark Twain, author.
Twain has a point. I still fear the dying part, but I don't believe death is felt at all.
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You lack experience with it...that lack should cause a doubt to remain. I doubt it because I've personally had interaction with something beyond the physical, and it put me into submission with ease.
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You lack experience with it...that lack should cause a doubt to remain. I doubt it because I've personally had interaction with something beyond the physical, and it put me into submission with ease.
I believe there's a logical explanation for what you think you experienced.
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You overestimate yourself
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Perhaps.
I still think it's horse shit.
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We'll see...that's without doubt
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Or we won't. That's my guess.
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Astral plane? Sounds like horse shit, too.
You meditate enough, you'll be on that astral plane---with a pretty ass woman asking "condoms or not?"
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Too mystical for me.
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I think it's possible that are brains are all kinda linked in some way. Like everything you've every thought is tied into something other people have thought about. I mean when was the last time you've had an original thought. I know I haven't, you think fucking the chubby girl with the wide ass is original I thinkith not. So I do believe there is a chance we are all tied into some weird forum of super brain. Lets keep that in the context of the whole speed of life fiasco.
May sound like bullshit, it's probably is, but it makes the thought of dieing less shitty. And there's nothing you can do to disprove it.
I hope "are" brains aren't linked in any way. Just saying.
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I think it's possible that are brains are all kinda linked in some way. Like everything you've every thought is tied into something other people have thought about. I mean when was the last time you've had an original thought. I know I haven't, you think fucking the chubby girl with the wide ass is original I thinkith not. So I do believe there is a chance we are all tied into some weird forum of super brain. Lets keep that in the context of the whole speed of life fiasco.
May sound like bullshit, it's probably is, but it makes the thought of dieing less shitty. And there's nothing you can do to disprove it.
Its called the Akashic Records...a conglomerate of earth's consciousness---a virtual library of what is, was, and possibly will be.
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Atman=Brahman my friends
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Its called the Akashic Records...a conglomerate of earth's consciousness---a virtual library of what is, was, and possibly will be.
Why not just believe in God? Makes as much sense as that jibberish.
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I think it's possible that are brains are all kinda linked in some way. Like everything you've every thought is tied into something other people have thought about. I mean when was the last time you've had an original thought. I know I haven't, you think fucking the chubby girl with the wide ass is original I thinkith not. So I do believe there is a chance we are all tied into some weird forum of super brain. Lets keep that in the context of the whole speed of life fiasco.
May sound like bullshit, it's probably is, but it makes the thought of dieing less shitty. And there's nothing you can do to disprove it.
Hahah i have the same theory. I always try telling my buddies and they just look at me funny. Maybe great minds think alike.
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The human brain just searching for purpose, don't ya think?
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Anyone believe in this horse shit?
No
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If there's no purpose...why would the human brain search for it?
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If there's no purpose...why would the human brain search for it?
we see a challenge and we tackle it.
the thought of losing everything we love is the ultimate challenge!
animals are lucky, they don't worry about death.
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If there's no purpose...why would the human brain search for it?
Our brains have evolved to being analytical, of course we're gonna search. It's evolution's fault.
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we see a challenge and we tackle it.
the thought of losing everything we love is the ultimate challenge!
animals are lucky, they don't worry about death.
Animals got it made. Except the shit eating part.
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It sounds like there is an element of separation between humans and animals....soul/spirit?
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Watch this video :o :o :o
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It sounds like there is an element of separation between humans and animals....soul/spirit?
Humans are self-conscious. Aware of our own mortality. Evolution.
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Its called the Akashic Records...a conglomerate of earth's consciousness---a virtual library of what is, was, and possibly will be.
A little more western than that concept. Basically time is just the 4th dimension, and everything that has ever and ever will happen, is already there if we could just see the 4th dimensional picture. (that's legit physics fyi)
So if everything that ever will be and ever has been, already exists, we're not really anything were just algorithms in the giant equation which is the universe. Like video game characters, our program is set, were just flowing through that program, we have no freewill, were just chemical machines. If were just machines why are we conscious, this is a big issue in philosophy.
The best I can figure is were simply in the mind of a god like being experiencing existences through the mind of it's creations.
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A little more western than that concept. Basically time is just the 4th dimension, and everything that has ever and ever will happen, is already there if we could just see the 4th dimensional picture. (that's legit physics fyi)
So if everything that ever will be and ever has been, already exists, we're not really anything were just algorithms in the giant equation which is the universe. Like video game characters, our program is set, were just flowing through that program, we have no freewill, were just chemical machines. If were just machines why are we conscious, this is a big issue in philosophy.
The best I can figure is were simply in the mind of a god like being experiencing existences through the mind of it's creations.
Horse shit.
Sorry.
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Anyone believe in this horse shit?
Squadfather did what he had to do with the wingspan of limited effort.
The cesarian way and style of meddling and improving things surely seemed like the true and may be ONLY resort for such an advantage.
The first "rider" (or should we say proponent?) engaged, and then the second, in this vile concoction of wills.
Apocalyptic or not, the true manifest was made, and it was clear, black baggery was a real effort as a means of settling it in a non-provokative manner without a dispute nor a premonition of strife and struggle.
Thing is, does anyone really consider SquadFather an apocolyptic fighter or is his roman warrior mistique just raising his stock in the eyes of superior opponents and upper level management.
i'm not referring to whether you the Getbig-poster buys into it offcourse, it's more in terms of his opponents and by upper level management i don't refer to dDave Czech, Juruth or even any high level promoters, the sponsorships are what drive these competitors to sweat in those black bags they always wear in the sauna, no chance can Salvatore make someone do that, we as human beings are driven by the desire for wealth, social acceptance, and once we hit our mid 30s our legacy.
To me personally the latter would be meaningless as i do not buy into the afterlife aspect so who cares what people think after i'm gone but someone religious like Jean Francois Papillon would for sure think otherwise which is why he trains so hard and i can't imaging anyone arguing the success of his labor, although i don't think sakara is anywhere near in the same boat.
but lets stay on topic, what makes SquadFather the threat that he is even though his skill set may be lightyears behind him
just to give you guys a quick example of what he has accomplished via his mystique when compared to what he has done in the octagon at least on the average of his occasions. makes it almost sad to see what the ufc hype machine is able to do to some but not to others who are perhaps more deserving due to their determination and work ethic and most importantly SKILL SET
They both knew where everything was heading as soon as they stepped inside the cage, it was a hellbound ride to the sauna...
The "mistique" is here to stay, be it now or never...
It's the Afterlife alright.
And yes, we should always (vis-a-vis) stay in the same boat among those other sordid predicaments where it may or may not flutter.
The one that tries, will, of course gain what is needed in this time and age.
The religion is one thing though, make no mistake about that.
It gets thought of many many times, always trying to improve.
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls1n94OvTR1qefm89o2_250.gif)
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Something could not have come from nothing.
Humans all possess "souls" ~ animals do not.
what a waste to toil on this earth and accomplish only to end up a molecule of dirt.
Faith is what prevails. There won't be any *writing on the wall*
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Horse shit.
Sorry.
Your either misunderstanding what I'm saying or you gotta back that shit up. The idea that were some creation of a god like being is a stretch, but the rest is legit philosophy.
Were chemical machines, and if time isn't real but only a perception of a 4th dimension, why aren't we basically nothing. We don't really make decisions time is set, everything that happens ten minutes from now has already happen from another perspective. Again this question isn't mine, this is as old as the greeks.
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Animals got it made. Except the shit eating part.
Did my best to follow Becker's Denial of Death awhile back. Not everything he said was on target but it was a good no-excuses (no appeal to trancendence) work on our problem of mortality from the perspective of western psychology.
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Something could not have come from nothing.
Humans all possess "souls" ~ animals do not.
what a waste to toil on this earth and accomplish only to end up a molecule of dirt.
Faith is what prevails. There won't be any *writing on the wall*
What if there was always something?
Souls schmouls.
Yes, what a waste.
Faith = Hope. Based on what, though?
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Squadfather did what he had to do with the wingspan of limited effort.
The cesarian way and style of meddling and improving things surely seemed like the true and may be ONLY resort for such an advantage.
The first "rider" (or should we say proponent?) engaged, and then the second, in this vile concoction of wills.
Apocalyptic or not, the true manifest was made, and it was clear, black baggery was a real effort as a means of settling it in a non-provokative manner without a dispute nor a premonition of strife and struggle.
Thing is, does anyone really consider SquadFather an apocolyptic fighter or is his roman warrior mistique just raising his stock in the eyes of superior opponents and upper level management.
i'm not referring to whether you the Getbig-poster buys into it offcourse, it's more in terms of his opponents and by upper level management i don't refer to dDave Czech, Juruth or even any high level promoters, the sponsorships are what drive these competitors to sweat in those black bags they always wear in the sauna, no chance can Salvatore make someone do that, we as human beings are driven by the desire for wealth, social acceptance, and once we hit our mid 30s our legacy.
To me personally the latter would be meaningless as i do not buy into the afterlife aspect so who cares what people think after i'm gone but someone religious like Jean Francois Papillon would for sure think otherwise which is why he trains so hard and i can't imaging anyone arguing the success of his labor, although i don't think sakara is anywhere near in the same boat.
but lets stay on topic, what makes SquadFather the threat that he is even though his skill set may be lightyears behind him
just to give you guys a quick example of what he has accomplished via his mystique when compared to what he has done in the octagon at least on the average of his occasions. makes it almost sad to see what the ufc hype machine is able to do to some but not to others who are perhaps more deserving due to their determination and work ethic and most importantly SKILL SET
They both knew where everything was heading as soon as they stepped inside the cage, it was a hellbound ride to the sauna...
The "mistique" is here to stay, be it now or never...
It's the Afterlife alright.
And yes, we should always (vis-a-vis) stay in the same boat among those other sordid predicaments where it may or may not flutter.
The one that tries, will, of course gain what is needed in this time and age.
The religion is one thing though, make no mistake about that.
It gets thought of many many times, always trying to improve.
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls1n94OvTR1qefm89o2_250.gif)
No idea what you're babbling about.
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Ugly...you're right... Based on what? Faith giving hope must be based on truth. But what is true? Eternal matter? Not according to scientific laws.
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Faith giving hope must be based on truth.
It could be based on an evolved, analytical brain not wanting to accept that it's finite.
Believe me, I'm not happy about this.
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Doesn't make sense. Life after death? Death is the end of life, how can you have life after life has stopped?
So no, there is no life after death.
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Doesn't make sense. Life after death? Death is the end of life, how can you have life after life has stopped?
So no, there is no life after death.
Let's say consciousness after death then.
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No idea what you're babbling about.
That's the Point of the Afterlife.
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I mean that valid hope derived from faith must be based on real, true truth. So the challenge is to seek for truth as if it were greater than gold. If there is no life after this, then we're all pitiful. If there is, we'd better be prepared for what's ahead.
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That's the Point of the Afterlife.
Gotcha.
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I mean that valid hope derived from faith must be based on real, true truth. If there is no life after this, then we're all pitiful.
1) The truth is we don't want to believe we will end. Can't it be based on that?
2) I agree.
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Who gives a giant fuck.
Me? I want off this ride. I love my planet but I could do without all the shitty humans, including myself, that inhabit it.
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All these complicated answers are just a way for people to avoid the fact that when we die we are worm food. Nothing more. Nothing happens, your consciousness doesn't live on, your soul doesn't go to heaven. You're just dead.
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All these complicated answers are just a way for people to avoid the fact that when we die we are worm food. Nothing more. Nothing happens, your consciousness doesn't live on, your soul doesn't go to heaven. You're just dead.
Sadly, yes.
Me, I welcome it.
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That provides no real hope at all, as it does not matter at all what we "want."
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All these complicated answers are just a way for people to avoid the fact that when we die we are worm food. Nothing more. Nothing happens, your consciousness doesn't live on, your soul doesn't go to heaven. You're just dead.
Absolutely.
Weak folks can't and won't accept their fate.
Me, I can't die!!
Yes you can, and you will.
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Only one who's been there and back could speak with authority. That's why it's not wise to give declarative statements that "we're worm food."
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Absolutely.
Weak folks can't and won't accept their fate.
Me, I can't die!!
Yes you can, and you will.
I don't see them as weak. Overly optimistic, I'd say.
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Only one who's been there and back
And back?
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Have faith my friends.
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To speak with absolute authority, it would take one who's died, returned and communicated with us.
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What about the zillions who've died and haven't said a word? Doesn't that tell us something?
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Have faith my friends.
Faith schmaith.
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Arguments from silence ?
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What?
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Doesn't that tell us something?
The ones who've "not" spoken tell us nothing.
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Only one who's been there and back could speak with authority. That's why it's not wise to give declarative statements that "we're worm food."
The people who die and come back and tell their stories about seeing a white light, etc. Oh brotha ::) ::)
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death is the end of lif e as you! know it,, human are all stardust,,th esoul remain even when body left,,if you are in TRUE need they will helop help you ...if not you wont ,, the help from the souls which are angels ofcourse happen only to the human flash who truly need it and it never happen the way you want it to happen but the way THEY prepared it for you for a resason,
it all come together in a circle ,, the ones who get help are humans who truly need help and it doesnt mean poor or rich ,,they can be billioners it dont work this way ,, it work via wether the fella is capable of functioninng for themselves or cant,,it works according to how low the living soul of a human is,, angels know who truly need help and will give it in a limited way
the angels are always ones who you knew in real life and passed on ,, dogs ,, granmas ,, ghranpas,, parents,, best friends,, those are who they are,, always conected to you directly and very close when they were flesh
gh15 approved
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The people who die and come back and tell their stories about seeing a white light, etc. Oh brotha
I was not referring to these people.
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death is the end of lif e as you! know it,, human are all stardust,,th esoul remain even when body left,,if you are in TRUE need they will helop help you ...if not you wont ,, the help from the souls which are angels ofcourse happen only to the human flash who truly need it and it never happen the way you want it to happen but the way THEY prepared it for you for a resason,
it all come together in a circle ,, the ones who get help are humans who truly need help and it doesnt mean poor or rich ,,they can be billioners it dont work this way ,, it work via wether the fella is capable of functioninng for themselves or cant,,it works according to how low the living soul of a human is,, angels know who truly need help and will give it in a limited way
the angels are always ones who you knew in real life and passed on ,, dogs ,, granmas ,, ghranpas,, parents,, best friends,, those are who they are,, always conected to you directly and very close when they were flesh
gh15 approved
Stick to steroids, friend.
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Authoritative statements have to be backed up by truth, not emotions and fantasy...or prejudice against a religious doctrine. You cannot say,"We're worm food," with any authority when you are still here, on this side.
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Authoritative statements have to be backed up by truth, not emotions and fantasy...or prejudice against a religious doctrine. You cannot say,"We're worm food," with any authority when you are still here, on this side.
Yes I can.
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Awesome
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Stick to steroids, friend.
example of angel help just for you friend,, take notes,, this is specific exampel when angel interfer ,, just to show you it has nothign to do if you have lot of money or poor as dirt,,
angels will tend to help as i said to the fellas who their living soul is very down ,, fellas that just cant do it they dont hav eit ,, a fella like okami wil most likley wont get angel help ,, whys that? because he is extremly strong soul fella,, what i mean by that,, at age 29 he already been throuhg what 50 year old fellas havent,, see what i mean ,, his living soul is strong he cant beat down ,,his soul is at 100% living strength
angels only help if the soul is very low under the 20% level,, how is a soul get to 20% level or under? it happen slowly take years,,
here is examples of how angels interfer,,
1, when flesh being is jobless and cant find a job ...not because he is lazy or dont want to make money but because he has something mentaly that stop him to interact with society,, fellas like that get angel help ,, when it something that the living flash has no control on ,,chemical in the brain ,, when they are afrsaid of their own shadow and afriad to function ....this is when angel will interfer,,it wont be when living flesh expect ...may take years but angel will interfer
another example
when living soul is older and never found a woman ,,and all of the livign soul around him found their women and hav ekids and familis,,and the living soul is trying but living soul only meet grabage and trash that cheat on him and use him or her for their kindness,,an angel will interfer in this type of case,, again it will be not when expected because those living soul dont expect a thing their living soul is down below 20%,,angel will act on its own time
many other examples but this is 2 of them
gh15 approved
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Anyone believe in this horse shit?
of course i do. if i am wrong..well i guess i was wrong..nothingness?. if you are wrong you will burn forever because you are a non believer
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Remember what it was like before you were born?.... yeeeep same thing 8)
Bingo! Make the best of it. This is all there is.
/sorry, coach. ::)
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It's human nature to have faith and worship, none can escape, so take your pic, Richard Dawkins or Jesus Christ.
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It's human nature to have faith and worship, none can escape, so take your pic, Richard Dawkins or Jesus Christ.
Dawkins.
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Its vanity to fear your own death
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animals are lucky, they don't worry about death.
Animals live in the moment. But they also fear death. Thats why they run from it. Unless of course your talking about the Honey Badger.
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example of angel help just for you friend,, take notes,, this is specific exampel when angel interfer ,, just to show you it has nothign to do if you have lot of money or poor as dirt,,
angels will tend to help as i said to the fellas who their living soul is very down ,, fellas that just cant do it they dont hav eit ,, a fella like okami wil most likley wont get angel help ,, whys that? because he is extremly strong soul fella,, what i mean by that,, at age 29 he already been throuhg what 50 year old fellas havent,, see what i mean ,, his living soul is strong he cant beat down ,,his soul is at 100% living strength
angels only help if the soul is very low under the 20% level,, how is a soul get to 20% level or under? it happen slowly take years,,
here is examples of how angels interfer,,
1, when flesh being is jobless and cant find a job ...not because he is lazy or dont want to make money but because he has something mentaly that stop him to interact with society,, fellas like that get angel help ,, when it something that the living flash has no control on ,,chemical in the brain ,, when they are afrsaid of their own shadow and afriad to function ....this is when angel will interfer,,it wont be when living flesh expect ...may take years but angel will interfer
another example
when living soul is older and never found a woman ,,and all of the livign soul around him found their women and hav ekids and familis,,and the living soul is trying but living soul only meet grabage and trash that cheat on him and use him or her for their kindness,,an angel will interfer in this type of case,, again it will be not when expected because those living soul dont expect a thing their living soul is down below 20%,,angel will act on its own time
many other examples but this is 2 of them
gh15 approved
First off: I agree
Second: The only way that you could have this kind of insight is to have been there yourself at one time.
I have been at the door of #1 before. I'm not ashamed to admit it. That experience has helped me to help others avoid being thrown into the gutter.
If you can get back on your feet and shake it off, you will make it. If you get caught up in the fear, it will end you.
At some point in time, I don't care who you are: EVERY KNEE WILL BOW.
Doesn't matter if you don't believe it. When you are on your knees and have no more physical or mental strength, you will have no where else to turn.
I feel sorry for people that feel their lives serve no purpose.
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First off: I agree
Second: The only way that you could have this kind of insight is to have been there yourself at one time.
I have been at the door of #1 before. I'm not ashamed to admit it. That experience has helped me to help others avoid being thrown into the gutter.
If you can get back on your feet and shake it off, you will make it. If you get caught up in the fear, it will end you.
At some point in time, I don't care who you are: EVERY KNEE WILL BOW.
Doesn't matter if you don't believe it. When you are on your knees and have no more physical or mental strength, you will have no where else to turn.
I feel sorry for people that feel their lives serve no purpose.
i agree. Its easy to say i am not afraid to die or there is no afterlife but when you get sick or you see death up close and personal these same individuals will be on bowing asking GOD to save them. no body in there right mind wants to die unless they are forgiven..even then you want to live a long healthy life
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A little more western than that concept. Basically time is just the 4th dimension, and everything that has ever and ever will happen, is already there if we could just see the 4th dimensional picture. (that's legit physics fyi)
So if everything that ever will be and ever has been, already exists, we're not really anything were just algorithms in the giant equation which is the universe. Like video game characters, our program is set, were just flowing through that program, we have no freewill, were just chemical machines. If were just machines why are we conscious, this is a big issue in philosophy.
The best I can figure is were simply in the mind of a god like being experiencing existences through the mind of it's creations.
It's been said the the spirit picks the body, due to what has been revealed in the Akhasic Records---what may happen. things that may happen in our lives the decisions we make, determine outcomes for other decsions that we make
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I don't know if there's an afterlife.
Neither does anyone else.
Hope this helps.
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What about the zillions who've died and haven't said a word? Doesn't that tell us something?
Well, since they haven't said a word I guess it doesn't tell us anything by definition. But there are some who insist they have heard from the after life.
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Yes I can.
Of course you can say anything you want. But since you cannot prove or disprove an afterlife you cannot speak in terms of facts. That's why it's almost pointless to argue matters of faith.
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"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
—Mark Twain, author.
"I don't know what happens after I die, as I have never died before."
— jr, Getbigger.
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example of angel help just for you friend,, take notes,, this is specific exampel when angel interfer ,, just to show you it has nothign to do if you have lot of money or poor as dirt,,
angels will tend to help as i said to the fellas who their living soul is very down ,, fellas that just cant do it they dont hav eit ,, a fella like okami wil most likley wont get angel help ,, whys that? because he is extremly strong soul fella,, what i mean by that,, at age 29 he already been throuhg what 50 year old fellas havent,, see what i mean ,, his living soul is strong he cant beat down ,,his soul is at 100% living strength
angels only help if the soul is very low under the 20% level,, how is a soul get to 20% level or under? it happen slowly take years,,
here is examples of how angels interfer,,
1, when flesh being is jobless and cant find a job ...not because he is lazy or dont want to make money but because he has something mentaly that stop him to interact with society,, fellas like that get angel help ,, when it something that the living flash has no control on ,,chemical in the brain ,, when they are afrsaid of their own shadow and afriad to function ....this is when angel will interfer,,it wont be when living flesh expect ...may take years but angel will interfer
another example
when living soul is older and never found a woman ,,and all of the livign soul around him found their women and hav ekids and familis,,and the living soul is trying but living soul only meet grabage and trash that cheat on him and use him or her for their kindness,,an angel will interfer in this type of case,, again it will be not when expected because those living soul dont expect a thing their living soul is down below 20%,,angel will act on its own time
many other examples but this is 2 of them
gh15 approved
Been at these for years. Where's the angel??
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"I don't know what happens after I die, as I have never died before."
— jr, Getbigger.
I don't know what happens if I jump off a cliff, as I have never... wait, that's not coming out right...
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Remember what it was like before you were born?.... yeeeep same thing 8)
lol
I actually never thought it that way
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I don't know what happens if I jump off a cliff, as I have never... wait, that's not coming out right...
LOL. C'mon, that's junior logic, and you know it. Time to take off the apologist gloves and get down to it. ;)
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"I don't know what happens after I die, as I have never died before."
— jr, Getbigger.
How do you know you've never died before? Maybe you've had hundreds of lives before this one.
Obviously you would start each new life with a clean slate, no memories of the past life/lives
That's some deep stuff :D
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the body has energy, when the body dies the energy leaves the body, where does this energy goes no one knows, but we do know this energy cannot be destroyed.
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Well we're really shitty at thinking so don't get over confident.
Seriously if you don't understand in a meaningful way how stupid people are your missing out. I ain't talking about people like joe six pack, I'm talking about the smartest person you know, they still have a very limited ability to understand things. Einstein was so smart that he came up with a theory that the whole world believed for over a century, the billions of people that have lived since than had no ability to disprove his theory, and guess what the smartest man that ever lived turned out to be wrong all by accident.
he also had a second son with his first wife who became mentally ill because he took all the collateral damages of their ugly separation. He died in a mental hospital...Yeah, einstein, what a saint...
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the body has energy, when the body dies the energy leaves the body, where does this energy goes no one knows, but we do know this energy cannot be destroyed.
perhaps our energy will find its way to a AA battery and end up in a vibrator somewhere.
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perhaps our energy will find its way to a AA battery and end up in a vibrator somewhere.
Your newsletter? Let me subscribe.
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To speak with absolute authority, it would take one who's died, returned and communicated with us.
I agree.
Wonder how long it will take the aths&ags to hit this thread now that I've posted in it?
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I agree.
Wonder how long it will take the aths&ags to hit this thread now that I've posted in it?
Since no one ever has, can't we deduce it maybe doesn't exist?
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Of course you have physical birth and death, but is there anything more to life than physical? Plus the physical things in life can trick you right? For example, if you view a red rose in your hand. It is really invisible light waves that your eye picks up, brain translates, and you say "ah red rose". But some other animal might see black and white, mulch-dementional pictures, ultrasound, sonar, etc. Think of those googly eye lizards, who the hell knows what they see. But to them their world is real, just like ours is real. Could there be something beyond the physical?
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Since no one ever has, can't we deduce it maybe doesn't exist?
Someone has though.
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Of course you have physical birth and death, but is there anything more to life than physical? Plus the physical things in life can trick you right? For example, if you view a red rose in your hand. It is really invisible light waves that your eye picks up, brain translates, and you say "ah red rose". But some other animal might see black and white, mulch-dementional pictures, ultrasound, sonar, etc. Think of those googly eye lizards, who the hell knows what they see. But to them their world is real, just like ours is real. Could there be something beyond the physical?
I believe this to be true.
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I believe this to be true.
Fixed!
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Fixed!
You don't believe people have physical births and deaths or that animals sense things differently than people?
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I agree.
Wonder how long it will take the aths&ags to hit this thread now that I've posted in it?
Not true. You can speak with a certain amount of authority on an issue. You don't need to have experienced something firsthand to be an "authority" on it.
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perhaps our energy will find its way to a AA battery and end up in a vibrator somewhere.
So that means in my next life I could be in a vibrator giving pleasure to some hot females, sounds good.
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Not true. You can speak with a certain amount of authority on an issue. You don't need to have experienced something firsthand to be an "authority" on it.
I agree.
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You don't believe people have physical births and deaths or that animals sense things differently than people?
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I agree.
Just take bodybuilding, for example! ;D ;D ;D
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You don't believe people have physical births and deaths or that animals sense things differently than people?
Yes, bro. :)
So a person's sense of sight is the same as say a bat's sense of sight?
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Someone has though.
Someone? Why not everyone?
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Just take bodybuilding, for example! ;D ;D ;D
This site is chocked full of bb experts!
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Someone? Why not everyone?
I know of one man in his early thirties (he was a teacher and carpenter) that died, came back to life and spoke to his closest friends after he came back to life.
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There is no afterlife, just purged black nothingness.
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I believe there is an afterlife.
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Dr. Chimps use to be William Blake in a previous life. He's going to keep coming back until he gets it right. FACT.
When the stars threw down their spears,
And watered heaven with their tears,
Did He smile His work to see?
Did He who made the lamb make thee?
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Watch this video :o :o :o
dawkins is such a retarded tool
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A little more western than that concept. Basically time is just the 4th dimension, and everything that has ever and ever will happen, is already there if we could just see the 4th dimensional picture. (that's legit physics fyi)
So if everything that ever will be and ever has been, already exists, we're not really anything were just algorithms in the giant equation which is the universe. Like video game characters, our program is set, were just flowing through that program, we have no freewill, were just chemical machines. If were just machines why are we conscious, this is a big issue in philosophy.
The best I can figure is were simply in the mind of a god like being experiencing existences through the mind of it's creations.
This is mostly correct.
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So if everything that ever will be and ever has been, already exists, we're not really anything were just algorithms in the giant equation which is the universe. Like video game characters, our program is set, were just flowing through that program, we have no freewill, were just chemical machines.
Its hard to believe that anyone would actually buy into that nonsense.
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Its hard to believe that anyone would actually buy into that nonsense.
Why is that?
No one has free will. On the other hand, no one is a complete slave either. There are only strong and weak wills. Everything in this world reacts with everything else -- nothing is absolutely free from influence.
Your will doesn't exist as some transcendent entity which beams thoughts down to your earthly body... the whole will / body duality is a myth. They are both bound together and are one and the same, ultimately.
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Why is that?
No one has free will. On the other hand, no one is a complete slave either. There are only strong and weak wills. Everything in this world reacts with everything else -- nothing is absolutely free from influence.
Your will doesn't exist as some transcendent entity which beams thoughts down to your earthly body... the whole will / body duality is a myth. They are both bound together and are one and the same, ultimately.
If no one has free will. That one is not free to make choices in life. That everything one does is merely a preconditioned programmed response. Then no one can be held responsible for their actions. Do you hold responsible the Glock 22 that just pumped six 230 grain Hydro-Shoks into your daughter's brain? Maybe you do? Some do in fact?
Saying nothing is absolutely free from outside influence is quite different from saying no one has free will. Being influenced by outside forces or not still implies conscious choices.
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(http://lakecityquietpills.com/photo/multihost/images/67236564011059048966.gif)
The Afterlife
Squadfather did what he had to do with the wingspan of limited effort.
The cesarian way and style of meddling and improving things surely seemed like the true and may be ONLY resort for such an advantage.
The first "rider" (or should we say proponent?) engaged, and then the second, in this vile concoction of wills.
Apocalyptic or not, the true manifest was made, and it was clear, black baggery was a real effort as a means of settling it in a non-provokative manner without a dispute nor a premonition of strife and struggle.
Thing is, does anyone really consider SquadFather an apocolyptic fighter or is his roman warrior mistique just raising his stock in the eyes of superior opponents and upper level management.
i'm not referring to whether you the Getbig-poster buys into it offcourse, it's more in terms of his opponents and by upper level management i don't refer to Dave Czech, Juruth or even any high level promoters, the sponsorships are what drive these competitors to sweat in those black bags they always wear in the sauna, no chance can Salvatore make someone do that, we as human beings are driven by the desire for wealth, social acceptance, and once we hit our mid 30s our legacy.
To me personally the latter would be meaningless as i do not buy into the afterlife aspect so who cares what people think after i'm gone but someone religious like Jean Francois Papillon would for sure think otherwise which is why he trains so hard and i can't imaging anyone arguing the success of his labor, although i don't think Wiggs is anywhere near in the same boat.
but lets stay on topic, what makes SquadFather the threat that he is even though his skill set may be lightyears behind him
just to give you guys a quick example of what he has accomplished via his mystique when compared to what he has done in the octagon at least on the average of his occasions. makes it almost sad to see what the ufc hype machine is able to do to some but not to others who are perhaps more deserving due to their determination and work ethic and most importantly SKILL SET
They both knew where everything was heading as soon as they stepped inside the cage, it was a hellbound ride to the sauna...
The "mistique" is here to stay, be it now or never...
It's the Afterlife alright.
And yes, we should always (vis-a-vis) stay in the same boat among those other sordid predicaments where it may or may not flutter.
The one that tries, will, of course gain what is needed in this time and age.
The religion is one thing though, make no mistake about that.
It gets thought of many many times, always trying to improve.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2wp1895.gif)
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What about ghost? I've seen the ghost of a relative of mine.
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If no one has free will. That one is not free to make choices in life. That everything one does is merely a preconditioned programmed response
This is a common misconception. "If I'm not free, I must be a slave (just a program)." Look at your use of the word "response". What are you responding against? Is it not, whatever it is, also responding to you? If I knock a pitch out of the park with my bat, most will say the ball "responded" to my bat by flying away. But my bat also responded to the ball! The ball knocked my bat off its course -- of course in much less dramatic fashion (which is why it's rarely talked about).
Now, humans, of course, aren't bats and balls but fundamentally there is no difference. This is where people screw up. Did the ball have a "choice" whether it flew out of the park or not? No, it had to. It did its best to knock the bat out of its way, but the bat was stronger. Similarly, every time you "make a choice" you enter into an exchange with... everything around you. Every decision, every action, everything you do or see around you is the result of a confluence of forces -- in your example, the glock, the bullets, my daughters brain, the gunman, his car etc. are all factors which are plugged into the equation of existence, and out pops the necessary result: my daughter's brain is splattered all over the sidewalk. Which brings me to...
Then no one can be held responsible for their actions. Do you hold responsible the Glock 22 that just pumped six 230 grain Hydro-Shoks into your daughter's brain? Maybe you do? Some do in fact?
Saying nothing is absolutely free from outside influence is quite different from saying no one has free will. Being influenced by outside forces or not still implies conscious choices.
I can hold whoever I want "responsible" for whichever "action" I want. I would go amiss if I said that the shooter here was SOLELY responsible for blowing my daughter's brains out. He pulled the trigger, but what was behind that pull? Well, of course a "decision" made by him. But what was behind that decision? If I said "nothing but his own free will" I would be dead wrong. Behind his decision was a lifetime of interactions, and ultimately, the whole history of existence. Countless forces battling it out over countless billions of years led up to that point, and led to that necessary result. I could blame him, and him alone, but that would be to the discredit of an infinity of other factors which led to this situation.
Of course I'll be furious at this outcome, but what can I do? Dismantle all of existence? Of course not. So I blame him. But I am smart enough to realize that this blame is simply... my preference. I have anger and I want to act on it... so I choose to take it out on the gunman, knowing full well things couldn't have been any different...
But this is a bit beside the point. If you believe in wills (and how can you not) you must understand that they are not free. Wills battle against wills, and the strongest prevails. It might be my will that I bench press 500 lbs tomorrow, but the weight will crush me, and so my will yields. It might be that the gunman wants to shoot my daughter, but I see him first and shoot him, so my will prevails, and his yields.
These examples, you will argue, deal with "outside influences" though and not "decision making". Well, in the end, it just takes a more subtle eye to see how there is no difference between the two. Why did I make the decision to attack the gunman? Is it not because he was threatening my daughter? Therefore I am responding to him. I might have walked past him on the street every day prior and, without knowing he was a threat, done nothing. And this goes back to the ball and bat example. We always try to separate things... but there is no separating them! We say "i chose" not "i reacted" but what is the difference between a choice and a reaction? Every action has a reaction. We call it a "choice" if the action originates with our will, and a "reaction" if it doesn't -- but there is no fundamental difference between the two. Every meeting (every clashing) of two wills yields a result. Who "chooses," who "reacts" etc. is all interpretation.
To say we have free will is to say our will is not a part of this world, is not something which struggles against (and therefore can be influenced by) the rest of the world. People believe their thoughts pop out of nothing into their head, that their decisions are their work alone, but this is never the case. Nothing that exists does so alone.
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This is a common misconception. "If I'm not free, I must be a slave (just a program)." Look at your use of the word "response". What are you responding against? Is it not, whatever it is, also responding to you? If I knock a pitch out of the park with my bat, most will say the ball "responded" to my bat by flying away. But my bat also responded to the ball! The ball knocked my bat off its course -- of course in much less dramatic fashion (which is why it's rarely talked about).
Now, humans, of course, aren't bats and balls but fundamentally there is no difference. This is where people screw up. Did the ball have a "choice" whether it flew out of the park or not? No, it had to. It did its best to knock the bat out of its way, but the bat was stronger. Similarly, every time you "make a choice" you enter into an exchange with... everything around you. Every decision, every action, everything you do or see around you is the result of a confluence of forces -- in your example, the glock, the bullets, my daughters brain, the gunman, his car etc. are all factors which are plugged into the equation of existence, and out pops the necessary result: my daughter's brain is splattered all over the sidewalk. Which brings me to...
I can hold whoever I want "responsible" for whichever "action" I want. I would go amiss if I said that the shooter here was SOLELY responsible for blowing my daughter's brains out. He pulled the trigger, but what was behind that pull? Well, of course a "decision" made by him. But what was behind that decision? If I said "nothing but his own free will" I would be dead wrong. Behind his decision was a lifetime of interactions, and ultimately, the whole history of existence. Countless forces battling it out over countless billions of years led up to that point, and led to that necessary result. I could blame him, and him alone, but that would be to the discredit of an infinity of other factors which led to this situation.
Of course I'll be furious at this outcome, but what can I do? Dismantle all of existence? Of course not. So I blame him. But I am smart enough to realize that this blame is simply... my preference. I have anger and I want to act on it... so I choose to take it out on the gunman, knowing full well things couldn't have been any different...
But this is a bit beside the point. If you believe in wills (and how can you not) you must understand that they are not free. Wills battle against wills, and the strongest prevails. It might be my will that I bench press 500 lbs tomorrow, but the weight will crush me, and so my will yields. It might be that the gunman wants to shoot my daughter, but I see him first and shoot him, so my will prevails, and his yields.
These examples, you will argue, deal with "outside influences" though and not "decision making". Well, in the end, it just takes a more subtle eye to see how there is no difference between the two. Why did I make the decision to attack the gunman? Is it not because he was threatening my daughter? Therefore I am responding to him. I might have walked past him on the street every day prior and, without knowing he was a threat, done nothing. And this goes back to the ball and bat example. We always try to separate things... but there is no separating them! We say "i chose" not "i reacted" but what is the difference between a choice and a reaction? Every action has a reaction. We call it a "choice" if the action originates with our will, and a "reaction" if it doesn't -- but there is no fundamental difference between the two. Every meeting (every clashing) of two wills yields a result. Who "chooses," who "reacts" etc. is all interpretation.
To say we have free will is to say our will is not a part of this world, is not something which struggles against (and therefore can be influenced by) the rest of the world. People believe their thoughts pop out of nothing into their head, that their decisions are their work alone, but this is never the case. Nothing that exists does so alone.
You’ve been thoroughly indoctrinated in complete bullshit, congrats.
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Did you choose to respond to my post and type those words?
Eliminating only my initial response and your answer, if we could recreate the EXACT same conditions as when I first posed my response would you have answered in the exact same way using the exact same words?
Something, a ball, reacting to an outside force, is subject to the laws of physics. It's an entirely different context deciding if one should swing or not swing a bat at a passing ball.
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You’ve been thoroughly indoctrinated in complete bullshit, congrats.
It's not his fault.
He's a good guy, though. But he can't take credit for any of his goodness.
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Did you choose to respond to my post and type those words?
Eliminating only my initial response and your answer, if we could recreate the EXACT same conditions as when I first posed my response would you have answered in the exact same way using the exact same words?
Something, a ball, reacting to an outside force, is subject to the laws of physics. It's an entirely different context deciding if one should swing or not swing a bat at a passing ball.
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. It's not different. You say you have a choice, but is that choice "free"? Did it come from "you"? And nowhere else? Did it create itself, perhaps? Are you saying the choice originated in you and you alone, and that it wasn't dependent on a single other thing in the universe?
You probably believe a thing like a rock doesn't have a will. That it doesn't "choose" its path as it rolls down a hill? Well what difference is there between a rock rolling down a hill and a human walking along a street? The human is just a jumble of nerves and cells and atoms bumbling along and ramming into things, just like the rock is just a bunch of molecules and sediment clunking along, isn't it? Just a bit more sophisticated in design?
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Something, a ball, reacting to an outside force, is subject to the laws of physics. It's an entirely different context deciding if one should swing or not swing a bat at a passing ball.
Maybe I can be clearer. You say that the ball is subject to the laws of physics, but then suggest that decisions are something beyond physics? But what if you make a decision, and then something happens... something in the physical world? What if you decide to swing, and then you actually swing? It seems the physical world (your arms, the bat, etc) was touched by your will here, doesn't it?
This implies the physical world isn't free from your will. But if that is the case, then how can your will be free from the physical world? How can something affect something if it is free from it? How can there be a one-way effect (will -> physical world)? Have you ever seen anything else like that?
On the other hand, how many times has the physical world seemingly bent your will? How many times has alcohol loosened you up, made you do something dumb? How many times have you become enraged by someone's behavior and done something irrational? How many times have you suddenly become panic stricken during one of your fights? And these are just crude examples...
The physical world and the world of will are one and the same!
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1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. It's not different. You say you have a choice, but is that choice "free"? Did it come from "you"? And nowhere else? Did it create itself, perhaps? Are you saying the choice originated in you and you alone, and that it wasn't dependent on a single other thing in the universe?
You probably believe a thing like a rock doesn't have a will. That it doesn't "choose" its path as it rolls down a hill? Well what difference is there between a rock rolling down a hill and a human walking along a street? The human is just a jumble of nerves and cells and atoms bumbling along and ramming into things, just like the rock is just a bunch of molecules and sediment clunking along, isn't it? Just a bit more sophisticated in design?
No.
If I see a car coming down the street I stop. Sure I am reacting to an outside stimuli but, unlike a rolling rock, I have a choice.
Awesome Spinoza reference. Introductory Philosophy can come in handy when you least expect it.
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haha, never read spinoza unfortunately.
yes you have a choice, but choice is an illusion. a convenient term for describing appearances. you couldn't really have kept walking. the past couldn't really have been any other way than it is.
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haha, never read spinoza unfortunately.
yes you have a choice, but choice is an illusion. a convenient term for describing appearances. you couldn't really have kept walking. the past couldn't really have been any other way than it is.
Same can't be said for a rock. Not same = different
BTW, people do jump in front of oncoming cars. But of course, they couldn't really have stopped walking.
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Same can't be said for a rock. Not same = different
BTW, people do jump in front of oncoming cars. But of course, they couldn't really have stopped walking.
Yep! :D
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You probably believe a thing like a rock doesn't have a will. That it doesn't "choose" its path as it rolls down a hill? Well what difference is there between a rock rolling down a hill and a human walking along a street? The human is just a jumble of nerves and cells and atoms bumbling along and ramming into things, just like the rock is just a bunch of molecules and sediment clunking along, isn't it? Just a bit more sophisticated in design?
Scary.
I fear this kid believes in the drivel that he’s spewing.
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Scary.
I fear this kid believes in the drivel that he’s spewing.
Well, he should. It's the truth.
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Forget all your bullshit philosophy, free will and whatnot, what does your GUT tell you? Consciousness after death, yes or no?
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Forget all your bullshit philosophy, free will and whatnot, what does your GUT tell you? Consciousness after death, yes or no?
Why should we listen to our gut?
If you knew anything about philosophy, you would know that "gut instincts" and sophisticated or "philosophical" thinking aren't fundamentally different things. In other words, "thoughts" and "feelings" are the same thing -- they just exist on different ends of the spectrum.
Anyway my gut says "hell no." Although it used to say "yes of course!" when I was younger. This changed because I started thinking differently. Think differently for long enough, and you begin to feel differently too. Thoughts become instincts.
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Anyone believe in this horse shit?
We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Your will doesn't exist as some transcendent entity which beams thoughts down to your earthly body... the whole will / body duality is a myth. They are both bound together and are one and the same, ultimately.
no.
for example, happy people are healthier.
heres the thing. our knowledge is limited to our experience, and the only verifiable experience is sensory; thus it must come through physical interactions. this leads you to assume that we are bound to act in accordance with what our experiences have taught us. but we are not. we can step back from our data set, look at our knowledge base, and decide anything we wish. its when you fail to think before you act that you allow experience to dictate behavior. your also discounting non-sensory experience... aka the experience of being human. the most important experience at all. not verifiable, and thus not able to prove anything except to the experiencer's self. sometimes not even that much as the thought of vain delusions brings doubt.
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my father said it best.. i asked him about GOD.. if he believed ect.. he said "yes.. i believe in a higher power.. i dont believe that this is just by happenstance.. but, it does not mean that we go to a heaven when we die.. we exist.. then we dont.. "... so my father did not believe in the "big bang" ect.. but also did not believe we went to a paradise either.. it is sad though to think we will just cease to exist.. we are no more.. :-[
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heres the thing. our knowledge is limited to our experience, and the only verifiable experience is sensory; thus it must come through physical interactions.
What do you mean "verifiable"? Where did I assume this?
this leads you to assume that we are bound to act in accordance with what our experiences have taught us. but we are not. we can step back from our data set, look at our knowledge base, and decide anything we wish. its when you fail to think before you act that you allow experience to dictate behavior. your also discounting non-sensory experience... aka the experience of being human. the most important experience at all. not verifiable, and thus not able to prove anything except to the experiencer's self. sometimes not even that much as the thought of vain delusions brings doubt.
where do i discount non-sensory experience?
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We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Can you tell where this specific location is where I can find the dead suckymuscle?
Your post sounds kind of interesting at first but then you realize it's just stupid. Stupid like you. Stupid like the dead suckymuscle.
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We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
This is brilliant stuff...you have been reading your quantum physics...
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We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
maybe the lutenent greatst posting in getbig history!,,good !
gh15 approved
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my father said it best.. i asked him about GOD.. if he believed ect.. he said "yes.. i believe in a higher power.. i dont believe that this is just by happenstance.. but, it does not mean that we go to a heaven when we die.. we exist.. then we dont.. "... so my father did not believe in the "big bang" ect.. but also did not believe we went to a paradise either.. it is sad though to think we will just cease to exist.. we are no more.. :-[
This seems very odd. I can understand why someone doesn't believe in God and an after life but to actually believe in God but not an after life seems very strange to me. Why would God create something in his own image, want you to be good in a world where so much works against goodness. And then end it. If that were the case, why be good? If a Mother Teresa and an Adolph Hitler share the same cosmic fate why not not just live for yourself? Do whatever you can get away with?
"If you were to destroy in mankind the belief in immortality, not only love but every living force maintaining the life of the world would at once be dried up. Moreover, nothing then would be immoral; everything would be lawful."
"Quite so," said Father Paissy, "there is no virtue if there is no immortality."
-- Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov Book II - An Unfortunate Gathering
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Yes, that's where it ultimately leads. No God = you are god, there is no true "right" and "wrong" no true North, that's why the famous satanist aleister crowley said "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".
Atheists scare me.
"Excuse me," Dmitri cried suddenly; "if I've heard right, crime must not only be permitted but even recognized as the inevitable and the most rational outcome of his position for every infidel!"
"Hold your tongue; you won't understand anything. If there is no God, then I am God."
Alexei Nilych Kirilov, The Demons and The Devils, Part III, ch. VI, "A busy night"
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Yes, that's where it ultimately leads. No God = you are god, there is no true "right" and "wrong" no true North, that's why the famous satanist aleister crowley said "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".
Atheists scare me.
Not necessarily, people can be moral without religion.
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Well, he should. It's the truth.
That’s rich. You guys wouldn’t recognize truth if it jumped up and took a sizable chunk out of your brainwashed backsides.
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Not necessarily, people can be moral without religion.
Of course, and people can be immoral with religion. But ask yourself, why are you a moral and good person? Chances are it's because of the way you were raised and the values instilled in you by your parents, in addition to what you've been able distill on your own. Where did your parents gets those values? Probably from their parents where they also added and subtracted and modified depending on their life experiences.
But as our society has become more secular have people, in general, become more honest, more responsible, more civil, more decent than say back in the 1940s-50s? If you don't have a value system outside of yourself, some set of rules of behavior that you are accountable to then you only have to answer to yourself. You become your own God. Now chances are immense that everyone in this country has had parents,, grand parents, great grandparents..., somewhere down the line whose value system was rooted in Judeo/Christian ethics. Now say somewhere down the line a generation rejects God and religion. It's not like they under go a complete change in their value system because it's been instill in them since birth. They still believe that stealing is wrong because -- well it just is. And you wouldn't want anybody to steal from you because you are suppose to do unto others as you would... wait ... OK, that's also in the Bible but so what? Believing in some things in the Bible doesn't mean you have to believe in God.
But what happens when a belief system is based on yourself is that now the core beliefs gets progressively diluted with each succeeding generation? So one starts to ask, why is stealing wrong? I mean, I'm so much in need and he has so much more than I do, and he was lucky that he had rich parents or that he's rich himself. I mean is Sears really going to go out of business if I swipe this GPS? I finally got hired as a driver and I don't know North from South. If I don't have a GPS I won't last a day on my job. It won't matter a wit to Sears but for me it's a matter of survival. I need a job. The economy is tough. I don't see God putting food on the table or paying the rent.
When you answer to just yourself you can always make excuses why this one time should be an exception. When you trust in human nature, which is inherently flawed, you can always juggle conflicting moral dilemmas. I don't trust human nature.
So, as we see now, with increasing secularism we see an increase in immorality. People are less honest, less decent, less civil and more hedonistic (which is the final purpose and end result in a life where good and evil have no transcendent meaning. Live for yourself. Live for pleasure. If it feels good -- do it.)
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Of course, and people can be immoral with religion. But ask yourself, why are you a moral and good person? Chances are it's because of the way you were raised and the values instilled in you by your parents, in addition to what you've been able distill on your own. Where did your parents gets those values? Probably from their parents where they also added and subtracted and modified depending on their life experiences.
But as our society has become more secular have people, in general, become more honest, more responsible, more civil, more decent than say back in the 1940s-50s? If you don't have a value system outside of yourself, some set of rules of behavior that you are accountable to then you only have to answer to yourself. You become your own God. Now chances are immense that everyone in this country has had parents,, grand parents, great grandparents..., somewhere down the line whose value system was rooted in Judeo/Christian ethics. Now say somewhere down the line a generation rejects God and religion. It's not like they under go a complete change in their value system because it's been instill in them since birth. They still believe that stealing is wrong because -- well it just is. And you wouldn't want anybody to steal from you because you are suppose to do unto others as you would... wait ... OK, that's also in the Bible but so what? Believing in some things in the Bible doesn't mean you have to believe in God.
But what happens when a belief system is based on yourself is that now the core beliefs gets progressively diluted with each succeeding generation? So one starts to ask, why is stealing wrong? I mean, I'm so much in need and he has so much more than I do, and he was lucky that he had rich parents or that he's rich himself. I mean is Sears really going to go out of business if I swipe this GPS? I finally got hired as a driver and I don't know North from South. If I don't have a GPS I won't last a day on my job. It won't matter a wit to Sears but for me it's a matter of survival. I need a job. The economy is tough. I don't see God putting food on the table or paying the rent.
When you answer to just yourself you can always make excuses why this one time should be an exception. When you trust in human nature, which is inherently flawed, you can always juggle conflicting moral dilemmas. I don't trust human nature.
So, as we see now, with increasing secularism we see an increase in immorality. People are less honest, less decent, less civil and more hedonistic (which is the final purpose and end result in a life where good and evil have no transcendent meaning. Live for yourself. Live for pleasure. If it feels good -- do it.)
How do you account for the vicious racism and slavery, both justified through Christianity, that are unacceptable today?
Why do so many priests molest kids?
Why do so many Muslims, in the name of their god, murder the innocent?
Why do so man Muslims, in the name of their god, cut off little girls' clits and sew their vaginas shut?
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How do you account for the vicious racism and slavery, both justified through Christianity, that are unacceptable today?
Why do so many priests molest kids?
Why do so many Muslims, in the name of their god, murder the innocent?
Why do so man Muslims, in the name of their god, cut off little girls' clits and sew their vaginas shut?
Come on, my friend, please. Do you want to have a serious discussion? Are we talking Muslims? Do I even have to comment on this? Muslims?
Slavery existed EVERYWHERE throughout history. What distinguished Western society, the United Sates, is that we fought a war to end it. The Quakers, Christians, played a huge role in the anti-slavery movement.
And the percentage Priest molesting children is not any higher, and in fact lower, then the general population of males except that it gets reported more.
Do I have to make a list of evil done by secularist and got tit for tat? Heard of Communism? Nazism? Fascism? I got you on dead bodies by far.
Friend, I already made it abundantly clear that I know there are many good and decent atheist and many rotten theist. The point I was trying to make was that if you believe you have to answer to somebody. That you will be held accountable for your behavior. This will have an impact on how you behave. Not 100% of the time and not 100% for everybody. Nothing is 100%. Just like having strict supervision from a parent isn't going to guarantee good behavior from your children it's just going to make it more likely. I know for myself that I have been kept on the straight and narrow many times because I believe that one day I will have to account for myself. All the things that I think are so important and so want in life: wealth, fame, popularity, respect, happiness, accomplishment... will matter very little when I stand before God. He isn't going to ask how big my house was, what kind of car did I drive, was my girl friend hot, how big my muscles were, how much money did I have, was I popular and did people like me.... none of that will matter. It keeps things in perspective for me.
Remember that scene in The Green Mile where Tom Hanks may have to execute a man he believes is innocent? He has to do it, right? It's his job. So when he stands before God and is asked why he killed an innocent man what is Hank's character going to say? "It was my job?"
Here it is. It's just the first 20 seconds of the clip. You can always justify any type of behavior when you just have to answer to yourself. "It was my job"
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Can't believe this is still being discussed...
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Can't believe this is still being discussed...
It's here. It's still here. It will always be here. Be a believer.
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It's here. It's still here. It will always be here. Be a believer.
I don't believe in fairy tales, thank you.
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Yeah you do.
Uhm, which ones do I believe in then? ???
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Uhm, which ones do I believe in then? ???
Anyone except Allah.
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"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
—Mark Twain, author.
Awesome quote.
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Anyone except Allah.
You have a cool handle name but that is about it.
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Awesome quote.
Except going form nothing to something is a bit different then going from something to nothing.
It's similar to not giving something in the first place than to give something and then to have to take it back. In both cases you are left with nothing. It's just that in the second case it hurts more.
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You have a cool handle name but that is about it.
I'll take what I can get.
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It's here. It's still here. It will always be here. Be a believer.
I'm an unbeliever. Believe is for the deceived, the ignorant, the obedient slaves like you. I reject your religion, Christianity, just as I reject Islam. All of you who believe are fools.
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We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Brilliant post!
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Of course, and people can be immoral with religion. But ask yourself, why are you a moral and good person? Chances are it's because of the way you were raised and the values instilled in you by your parents, in addition to what you've been able distill on your own. Where did your parents gets those values? Probably from their parents where they also added and subtracted and modified depending on their life experiences.
But as our society has become more secular have people, in general, become more honest, more responsible, more civil, more decent than say back in the 1940s-50s? If you don't have a value system outside of yourself, some set of rules of behavior that you are accountable to then you only have to answer to yourself. You become your own God. Now chances are immense that everyone in this country has had parents,, grand parents, great grandparents..., somewhere down the line whose value system was rooted in Judeo/Christian ethics. Now say somewhere down the line a generation rejects God and religion. It's not like they under go a complete change in their value system because it's been instill in them since birth. They still believe that stealing is wrong because -- well it just is. And you wouldn't want anybody to steal from you because you are suppose to do unto others as you would... wait ... OK, that's also in the Bible but so what? Believing in some things in the Bible doesn't mean you have to believe in God.
But what happens when a belief system is based on yourself is that now the core beliefs gets progressively diluted with each succeeding generation? So one starts to ask, why is stealing wrong? I mean, I'm so much in need and he has so much more than I do, and he was lucky that he had rich parents or that he's rich himself. I mean is Sears really going to go out of business if I swipe this GPS? I finally got hired as a driver and I don't know North from South. If I don't have a GPS I won't last a day on my job. It won't matter a wit to Sears but for me it's a matter of survival. I need a job. The economy is tough. I don't see God putting food on the table or paying the rent.
When you answer to just yourself you can always make excuses why this one time should be an exception. When you trust in human nature, which is inherently flawed, you can always juggle conflicting moral dilemmas. I don't trust human nature.
So, as we see now, with increasing secularism we see an increase in immorality. People are less honest, less decent, less civil and more hedonistic (which is the final purpose and end result in a life where good and evil have no transcendent meaning. Live for yourself. Live for pleasure. If it feels good -- do it.)
I agree with most of this. Judeo-Christian values are great for society. It's how I was raised, sure. What I meant is that, individually, people can lose their faith yet still be moral citizens.
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:)
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What do you mean "verifiable"? Where did I assume this?
where do i discount non-sensory experience?
by verifiable i mean something concrete that can be scientifically tested, agreed upon by other individuals. the only kind of experience that is verifiable is sensory experience.
if you believe in non-sensory experience than you believe in the transcendant human spirit. you said you dont believe in dualism, therefore your saying you dont believe in non sensory experience.
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I'm an unbeliever. Believe is for the deceived, the ignorant, the obedient slaves like you. I reject your religion, Christianity, just as I reject Islam. All of you who believe are fools.
I'm sure your side appreciates being represented by such a reasoned and well thought out response.
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I agree with most of this. Judeo-Christian values are great for society. It's how I was raised, sure. What I meant is that, individually, people can lose their faith yet still be moral citizens.
Of course, but how do we create good individuals?
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Creating good individuals is a different argument. On this point we agree. But telling a kid he better be nice or Santa won't bring him toys might help create a better kid, too. It doesn't make Santa real, though.
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Of course, but how do we create good individuals?
setting good a example, encouraging empathy
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by verifiable i mean something concrete that can be scientifically tested, agreed upon by other individuals. the only kind of experience that is verifiable is sensory experience.
if you believe in non-sensory experience than you believe in the transcendant human spirit. you said you dont believe in dualism, therefore your saying you dont believe in non sensory experience.
I'm contrasting the senses with reason (and countless reasons are "agreed upon by other individuals"). I don't know what you mean by "non-sensory" experience.
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Creating good individuals is a different argument. On this point we agree. But telling a kid he better be nice or Santa won't bring him toys might help create a better kid, too. It doesn't make Santa real, though.
Yes, you are quite right. I have to admit that. That's why, though I believe a world without God and an after life makes life essentially meaningless, it is not an argument for the existence of God.
It just argues that it would be swell if there were. Different things entirely.
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setting good a example, encouraging empathy
Yes, but where do you get those values from unless you believe that men are simply born good?
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I believe a world without God and an after life makes life essentially meaningless
That's the rub. Reality is a cruel mutherfocker.
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I'm contrasting the senses with reason (and countless reasons are "agreed upon by other individuals"). I don't know what you mean by "non-sensory" experience.
"reason" .. define that. i think you are again arguing for the transcendant human spirit without knowing it.
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Yes, but where do you get those values from unless you believe that men are simply born good?
are you not aware of morality based on logical deduction? it was a major philosophical concept for a few hundred years.. still is ..
how can we defend empathy without jesus ? well... we could have been born in anyone elses body. its entirely by chance we are in the circumstances we are in. because of that we should love everyone as we love ourself.
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okay i'll get right on it... as soon as you define "non-sensory experience". ::) nothing is transcendent, i hope this helps.
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That's the rub. Reality is a cruel mutherfocker.
Either the universe simply always existed and everything you see around you just happened purely by chance. Or it was created by a creator that always existed. So either matter, the stuff of the universe was always here, of it was created by a God that was always here.
Both are matters of faith. I find the first alternative as preposterous as atheist find the second.
So my belief in God is not simply a wish.
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Either the universe simply always existed and everything you see around you just happened purely by chance. Or it was created by a creator that always existed. So either matter, the stuff of the universe was always here, of it was created by a God that was always here.
Both are matters of faith. I find the first alternative as preposterous as atheist find the second.
So my belief in God is not simply a wish.
Both are matters of faith . you're a funny guy. ;D
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Both are matters of faith. I find the first alternative as preposterous as atheist find the second.
So my belief in God is not simply a wish.
I wish I had your mindset.
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are you not aware of morality based on logical deduction? it was a major philosophical concept for a few hundred years.. still is ..
how can we defend empathy without jesus ? well... we could have been born in anyone elses body. its entirely by chance we are in the circumstances we are in. because of that we should love everyone as we love ourself.
No, and I was initially a Philosophy major at UCLA.
Man's nature is base on self interest. It is natural to just take what you want than to earn it. To lie when the truth may get you in trouble. To be lazy. To be selfish. To react and behave solely based on your feelings and emotions. Creating a civilized person requires them to go against their nature. To learn to eat with a fork instead with your hands. To express thanks and gratitude. To share. To take into consideration other people's feelings.
The very concept of love others as you would love yourself didn't come from any logical deduction. It came from the Bible. It is natural to put yourself first. Not some stranger.
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Man's nature is base on self interest. It is natural to just take what you want than to earn it. To lie when the truth may get you in trouble. To be lazy. To be selfish. To react and behave solely based on your feelings and emotions. Creating a civilized person requires them to go against their nature. To learn to eat with a fork instead with your hands. To express thanks and gratitude. To share. To take into consideration other people's feelings.
The very concept of love others as you would love yourself didn't come from any logical deduction. It came from the Bible. It is natural to put yourself first. Not some stranger.
"Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis addresses this very idea. Good read.
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okay i'll get right on it... as soon as you define "non-sensory experience". ::) nothing is transcendent, i hope this helps.
well that same "reasoning" you referred to would be a non sensory experience. the experience of being human is a non sensory experience. and it is transcendant.
No, and I was initially a Philosophy major at UCLA.
Man's nature is base on self interest. It is natural to just take what you want than to earn it. To lie when the truth may get you in trouble. To be lazy. To be selfish. To react and behave solely based on your feelings and emotions. Creating a civilized person requires them to go against their nature. To learn to eat with a fork instead with your hands. To express thanks and gratitude. To share. To take into consideration other people's feelings.
The very concept of love others as you would love yourself didn't come from any logical deduction. It came from the Bible. It is natural to put yourself first. Not some stranger.
where do you think the people who wrote the bible got the idea ? even if you believe they got it from jesus, and you believe jesus got it from god.. where did god get the idea? everything has a logical basis.
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well that same "reasoning" you referred to would be a non sensory experience. the experience of being human is a non sensory experience. and it is transcendant.
where do you think the people who wrote the bible got the idea ? even if you believe they got it from jesus, and you believe jesus got it from god.. where did god get the idea? everything has a logical basis.
The fallacy is that you are anthropomorphizing God. God does not "get an idea."
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:)
being an atheist, a so called "non believer", is actually believing in others principles than religious ones; materialism, hedonism, consumerism, feminism, humanism, capitalism... they all form... a belief, a faith. So dont tell people you dont believe in a religion, cause you have your own belief, religion, it's being an atheist.
You re as much of a beleiver than a buddhist, muslim, christian.
The real question tho, is, from all these religions, which one is the One.
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being an atheist, a so called "non believer", is actually believing in others principles; materialism, hedonism, consumerism, feminism, humanism, capitalism... they all form... a belief, a faith. So dont tell people you dont believe in a religion, cause you have your own belief, religion, it's being an atheist.
The word Atheist comes from the Greek word Atheos , A meaning without and Theos meaning Theology or God , all it simply means is without belief in a God or Gods
Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color
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being an atheist, a so called "non believer", is actually believing in others principles; materialism, hedonism, consumerism, feminism, humanism, capitalism... they all form... a belief, a faith. So dont tell people you dont believe in a religion, cause you have your own belief, religion, it's being an atheist.
I'm not an atheist.
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being an atheist, a so called "non believer", is actually believing in others principles; materialism, hedonism, consumerism, feminism, humanism, capitalism... they all form... a belief, a faith. So dont tell people you dont believe in a religion, cause you have your own belief, religion, it's being an atheist.
good post
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The fallacy is that you are anthropomorphizing God. God does not "get an idea."
your objection, while somewhat valid, is unrelated to what i was saying. how can we create good people? by encouraging empathy. how do we know this is the right thing to do? thats kind of a circular question ;D :D
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I wish I had your mindset.
Though coming from a Christian church going family, I was an agnostic (much to my parents horror) from my mid teens throughout my twenties. But at some point, when deciding how you want to live, what kind of man you want to be, you can't -- well at least I can't -- sit on the fence for the entirety of my life. At some point you have to take that leap of faith no matter what side you choose. I have not the slightest doubt in my mind that I would be a different person had I chosen to believe that in the end it doesn't matter in this world if you are a good person or a bad person. But I would definitely have had a tendency to "sweep moral issues under the rug." I would be less honest and more selfish. I would do things if I could get away with it if it suited me. Like when the cashier owe me four dollars in change she mistakenly gave me three one dollar bills and a ten dollar bill. Atheist Pellius would have just kept the ten. Not my problem that the clerk is sloppy and I always prefer a ten dollar bill over a one. But religious Pellius asks himself that when he stands before God and has to account for his deeds how important will that ten dollars be now?
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being an atheist, a so called "non believer", is actually believing in others principles; materialism, hedonism, consumerism, feminism, humanism, capitalism... they all form... a belief, a faith. So dont tell people you dont believe in a religion, cause you have your own belief, religion, it's being an atheist.
This reminds me of the quote by G.K. Chesterton, "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."
I don't think it's coincidental that those who are into the radical wind of certain movements like feminism, environmentalism, PETA.... are atheists. People need something to believe in to make their lives more fulfilling and meaningful. So when people accuse people of faith for being weak willed because they have to believe in a God to give their life comfort and meaning. That may indeed be so. But are you any more "strong willed" because nature and the right of trees to live is your belief system? Your God?
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Though coming from a Christian church going family, I was an agnostic (much to my parents horror) from my mid teens throughout my twenties. But at some point, when deciding how you want to live, what kind of man you want to be, you can't -- well at least I can't -- sit on the fence for the entirety of my life. At some point you have to take that leap of faith no matter what side you choose. I have not the slightest doubt in my mind that I would be a different person had I chosen to believe that in the end it doesn't matter in this world if you are a good person or a bad person. But I would definitely have had a tendency to "sweep moral issues under the rug." I would be less honest and more selfish. I would do things if I could get away with it if it suited me. Like when the cashier owe me four dollars in change she mistakenly gave me three one dollar bills and a ten dollar bill. Atheist Pellius would have just kept the ten. Not my problem that the clerk is sloppy and I always prefer a ten dollar bill over a one. But religious Pellius asks himself that when he stands before God and has to account for his deeds how important will that ten dollars be now?
LMFAO equating atheism with being amoral ironic the overwhelming majority of prisons are packed full of believers
So you're only behaving out of fear of a vengeful God? great logic :-\
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I would do things if I could get away with it if it suited me. Like when the cashier owe me four dollars in change she mistakenly gave me three one dollar bills and a ten dollar bill. Atheist Pellius would have just kept the ten. Not my problem that the clerk is sloppy and I always prefer a ten dollar bill over a one. But religious Pellius asks himself that when he stands before God and has to account for his deeds how important will that ten dollars be now?
See, it doesn't work that way for me. I still believe in right and wrong, because that's how I was raised, and I just feel better doing the right thing. Call it what you will. I definitely empathize with my fellow human being.
That, or I'm just a lazy atheist.
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your objection, while somewhat valid, is unrelated to what i was saying. how can we create good people? by encouraging empathy. how do we know this is the right thing to do? thats kind of a circular question ;D :D
It's not. For a religious person if you ask them why it is wrong to steal they will answer "because it is against one of the ten commandments." And I know people on this board will laugh at this and say we are brain washed robots and can't think for ourselves.
But explain to me, in purely secular terms, why stealing is wrong.
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It's not. For a religious person if you ask them why it is wrong to steal they will answer "because it is against one of the ten commandments." And I know people on this board will laugh at this and say we are brain washed robots and can't think for ourselves.
But explain to me, in purely secular terms, why stealing is wrong.
very simple, it hurts another person.
morality is based on how your behavior affect others.
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why is hurting another person wrong?
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Atheists dont want to reproduce, get illnesses, sink into addictions, real faithful christians -not talking about fake ones- dont know. Real christians reproduce, raise educated contributing kids who dont fall for addictions and help others get over them. Work in research, in health... They raise happy people who share their hapiness and faith with those who lost it, who lost the will to live. Faith is the will to live doing your best without hurting others, as simple as that. It doesnt mean you have to let others kill you either. It tells you you have to fight to preserve life and faith when necessary.
The atheist faith is ; "i do what i want, i am god, I before them, there was nothing before me and after me there's nothing". This is anarchism and nihilism.
For some reasons more and more atheists find Islam interesting, especially in europe, but that's something you north american still arent aware of. It's a global thing that's at work. Way beyond just north america. The Globalization of all phenomenons.
Atheist will disapear, and only real christians, muslims, and chinese will remain and will fight or cooperate to form tomorow's mankind. Something tells me there can only be one "winner".
you do the maths narcisic"Deity" ...
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It's not. For a religious person if you ask them why it is wrong to steal they will answer "because it is against one of the ten commandments." And I know people on this board will laugh at this and say we are brain washed robots and can't think for ourselves.
But explain to me, in purely secular terms, why stealing is wrong.
Why is stealing wrong? because you wouldn't want someone stealing from you , that's why it's wrong
It's only wrong because God might find out? I don't want to steal from anyone because I have had things stolen from me , not because I fear repercussions from a God
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Atheists dont want to reproduce, get illnesses, sink into addictions, real faithful christians -not talking about fake ones- dont know. Real christians reproduce, raise educated contributing kids who dont fall for addictions and help others get over them. Work in research, in health...
you do the maths narcisic"Deity" ...
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z25/Todesfick/fembber.jpg)
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LMFAO equating atheism with being amoral ironic the overwhelming majority of prisons are packed full of believers
So you're only behaving out of fear of a vengeful God? great logic :-\
I don't know why I even should respond to you as you argue from emotion and I'm sure eventually I'll ignore you but for the benefit of others reading this thread.
I never said atheists are amoral. I said they make their own rules. The overwhelming majority of people in prison were not practicing Christians before their crimes. What conversions takes place while in prison is an entirely different issue altogether.
And yes, I do fear God. I fear being punished for bad deeds and strive to be rewarded for good deeds. Same reason why you listened to your parents. Same reason your employees listen to you. Same reason you don't break the law. Same reason why you don't go to the front door guarded by a snarling German Shepard. See the logic?
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.
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Atheists dont want to reproduce, get illnesses, sink into addictions, real faithful christians -not talking about fake ones- dont know. Real christians reproduce, raise educated contributing kids who dont fall for addictions and help others get over them. Work in research, in health...
you do the maths narcisic"Deity" ...
You're painting with a very broad brush and your points can all be applied to Christians yes even ' real ' ones , again most prisons are filled with believers
Narcissistic Deity = self-loving God like the God of Christianity , who makes a flawed creations then punishes his creations for the flaws , self-loving demands to be worshiped and praised for creating , lets entertain for a moment there is a creator is the Universe/Multiverse etc , do you think for a moment someone this exceptional would beg for petty praise? or give a fuck about who you sleep with or if you masturbate? This is offensive to someone with this capability and if there is a creator he/she/it is most certainly NOTHING like the one described in the ' holy bible '
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most prisons are filled with believers
No they're not.
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I don't know why I even should respond to you as you argue from emotion and I'm sure eventually I'll ignore you but for the benefit of others reading this thread.
I never said atheists are amoral. I said they make their own rules. The overwhelming majority of people in prison were not practicing Christians before their crimes. What conversions takes place while in prison is an entirely different issue altogether.
And yes, I do fear God. I fear being punished for bad deeds and strive to be rewarded for good deeds. Same reason why you listened to your parents. Same reason your employees listen to you. Same reason you don't break the law. Same reason why you don't go to the front door guarded by a snarling German Shepard. See the logic?
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.
I don't know why I even should respond to you as you argue from emotion and I'm sure eventually I'll ignore you but for the benefit of others reading this thread.
I'm sure you will ignore me as well as facts
I never said atheists are amoral. I said they make their own rules. The overwhelming majority of people in prison were not practicing Christians before their crimes. What conversions takes place while in prison is an entirely different issue altogether.
I never claimed you said atheists are amoral , I said you equated atheism with being amoral , in your example that if you were an atheist you wouldn't have returned the money and the only reason you would is fear , you're only moral because you're being forced to out of fear
You don't know what overwhelming majority of people religious status was before they entered the system , you took some liberties here and lets entertain it's true what does that tell us about the rate of being repeat offenders when released? people find God in jail and after they get out they all become model citizens?
And yes, I do fear God. I fear being punished for bad deeds and strive to be rewarded for good deeds. Same reason why you listened to your parents. Same reason your employees listen to you. Same reason you don't break the law. Same reason why you don't go to the front door guarded by a snarling German Shepard. See the logic?
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.
No logic , you admit that you're only moral because you're being babysat and or live in fear of punishment. You better give back that money to the cashier because you might have to explain that one to a vengeful angry God , I would give that money back because I know if she's short in her draw it may come out of her pay check and the simple fact that the money is NOT mine , no God needed morality without God.
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No they're not.
I disagree
he Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of
inmates per religion category:
Response Number %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)
Unknown/No Answer 18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted 93112 80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.
Held in Custody 3856 (not surveyed due to temporary custody)
----------------------------
Total In Prisons 96968
I hope that this information is helpful to you.
Sincerely,
Denise Golumbaski
Research Analyst
Federal Bureau of Prisons
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I disagree
he Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of
inmates per religion category:
Response Number %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)
Unknown/No Answer 18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted 93112 80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.
Held in Custody 3856 (not surveyed due to temporary custody)
----------------------------
Total In Prisons 96968
I hope that this information is helpful to you.
Sincerely,
Denise Golumbaski
Research Analyst
Federal Bureau of Prisons
C'mon, they responded to a poll. Prisons are filled with people who respect nothing, certainly not Christian values. The stats are meaningless.
Edit: I do find it amusing that 7 Krishnas landed themselves in the clink.
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C'mon, they responded to a poll. Prisons are filled with people who respect nothing, certainly not Christian values. The stats are meaningless.
If they proved your point would you feel the same way?
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(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z25/Todesfick/seppuku.jpg)
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If they proved your point would you feel the same way?
Anything that comes out of a prisoner's mouth must be viewed with skepticism. I'm sure we can agree on that.
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Anything that comes out of a prisoner's mouth must be viewed with skepticism. I'm sure we can agree on that.
I think if the stats proved overwhelming that the majority of convicts were atheists you feel differently , and on a matter of faith why should be be skeptical ? it's not like they were admitted to anything guilty , I don't understand why we would have to be concerned about validity of their answer on such a simple question
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most prisons are filled with believers
who found their faith AFTER joining the prison and to face the absurdity of life in there. To keep their psyche working instead of seeing it melt, disintegrate itself.
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who found their faith AFTER joining the prison and to face the absurdity of life in there. To keep their psyche working instead of seeing it melt, disintegrate itself.
And you got these facts where? and if true what does that say about the rate of re-offenders when released?
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very simple, it hurts another person.
morality is based on how your behavior affect others.
So what? Why should I care? People hurt me all the time? Where did this, your, morality come from? If I found my neighbor's wallet with $60.00 inside I'm going to keep it. He's already hurt that he lost his wallet. He'll never know it's me that found it. And if I don't keep it somebody else will. I would rather it be me. Sixty bucks is sixty buck. A nice vial of trenbolona that I wouldn't else have had. Plus, I need it more. And the guy's a dick. He deserves it.
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So what? Why should I care? People hurt me all the time? Where did this, your, morality come from? If I found my neighbor's wallet with $60.00 inside I'm going to keep it. He's already hurt that he lost his wallet. He'll never know it's me that found it. And if I don't keep it somebody else will. I would rather it be me. Sixty bucks is sixty buck. A nice vial of trenbolona that I wouldn't else have had. Plus, I need it more. And the guy's a dick. He deserves it.
I gave you a perfect example which you ignored. The only reason you would give back the cashier money is out of fear , the reason I would give it back because I know 1) it doesn't belong to me and 2) if I don't return it may come out of her check
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Why is stealing wrong? because you wouldn't want someone stealing from you , that's why it's wrong
It's only wrong because God might find out? I don't want to steal from anyone because I have had things stolen from me , not because I fear repercussions from a God
So you abide by the golden rule "Do unto others..." as stated in the Bible.
Would you steal if it didn't hurt any one individual? If no, why not? Say you worked at a 7-11. Would you swipe one of their sodas if you really wanted one? Really thirsty for that Coke but didn't have the money. Hey, it's only a buck. Nobody is going to feel it? It will have an insignificant income on the companies profit margin.
And is doing to others always OK if I allow it to be done to myself? I let people punch me in the face, throw me to the ground and twist my arm. I wouldn't that done to my girl friend. Kai Green was poor and desperate and did humiliating things for money. He also has done things to his body that no normal person would do. Would he think it was OK if his daughter or son did the same thing?
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You're painting with a very broad brush and your points can all be applied to Christians yes even ' real ' ones , again most prisons are filled with believers
Narcissistic Deity = self-loving God like the God of Christianity , who makes a flawed creations then punishes his creations for the flaws , self-loving demands to be worshiped and praised for creating , lets entertain for a moment there is a creator is the Universe/Multiverse etc , do you think for a moment someone this exceptional would beg for petty praise? or give a fuck about who you sleep with or if you masturbate? This is offensive to someone with this capability and if there is a creator he/she/it is most certainly NOTHING like the one described in the ' holy bible '
Simply not true. As a group religious families reproduce at a far greater rate than secular ones. Again, there are always exceptions, but whenever you see a big family -- four children or more -- chances are overwhelming that they are religious.
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who found their faith AFTER joining the prison and to face the absurdity of life in there. To keep their psyche working instead of seeing it melt, disintegrate itself.
Not only that you get certain benefits when you come across as "reborn." Some have been even spared the gas chamber.
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So you abide by the golden rule "Do unto others..." as stated in the Bible.
Would you steal if it didn't hurt any one individual? If no, why not? Say you worked at a 7-11. Would you swipe one of their sodas if you really wanted one? Really thirsty for that Coke but didn't have the money. Hey, it's only a buck. Nobody is going to feel it? It will have an insignificant income on the companies profit margin.
And is doing to others always OK if I allow it to be done to myself? I let people punch me in the face, throw me to the ground and twist my arm. I wouldn't that done to my girl friend. Kai Green was poor and desperate and did humiliating things for money. He also has done things to his body that no normal person would do. Would he think it was OK if his daughter or son did the same thing?
So you abide by the golden rule "Do unto others..." as stated in the Bible.
The golden rule predates Christianity , Abraham Lincoln stated ' when I do bad things I feel bad and when I do good things I feel good. ' altruism predates religion and it's innate and without it the species would have never survived
Would you steal if it didn't hurt any one individual? If no, why not? Say you worked at a 7-11. Would you swipe one of their sodas if you really wanted one? Really thirsty for that Coke but didn't have the money. Hey, it's only a buck. Nobody is going to feel it? It will have an insignificant income on the companies profit margin.
I don't make it a habit of stealing even if it technically didn't hurt anyone , why? not the type of person I am not because I live in fear , if I wanted a soda and didn't have the money , the lesson would be don't blow all your money in the end you're still taking something that does NOT belong to you
And is doing to others always OK if I allow it to be done to myself? I let people punch me in the face, throw me to the ground and twist my arm. I wouldn't that done to my girl friend. Kai Green was poor and desperate and did humiliating things for money. He also has done things to his body that no normal person would do. Would he think it was OK if his daughter or son did the same thing?
You're really offering this up as an analogy? seriously you feel comfortable typing this? :-\
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I gave you a perfect example which you ignored. The only reason you would give back the cashier money is out of fear , the reason I would give it back because I know 1) it doesn't belong to me and 2) if I don't return it may come out of her check
You are lying to yourself. There are labor laws that forbid company lost to be taken out of an employees check. And who cares if it doesn't belong to you.
A good part of our behavior is based on rewards and punishments. You don't speed as much as you like because you're afraid you'll get a ticket. You work hard at your job because you hope you will get a raise. You don't walk around in your public gym with your shirt off because you are afraid you will get kicked out. You don't punch the guy in the face that just insulted you because you are afraid of going to jail.
Don't try to fool me. And even worse, don't fool yourself. You're nothing special.
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Simply not true. As a group religious families reproduce at a far greater rate than secular ones. Again, there are always exceptions, but whenever you see a big family -- four children or more -- chances are overwhelming that they are religious.
What's not true? I don't see the point you're trying to make
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The golden rule predates Christianity , Abraham Lincoln stated ' when I do bad things I feel bad and when I do good things I feel good. ' altruism predates religion and it's innate and without it the species would have never survived
Goodness is innate, huh? I guess you missed the whole last century. Lincoln felt that well because he was a good person. He was raised to be a good person. He wasn't born to be good. No one is.
I don't make it a habit of stealing even if it technically didn't hurt anyone , why? not the type of person I am not because I live in fear , if I wanted a soda and didn't have the money , the lesson would be don't blow all your money in the end you're still taking something that does NOT belong to you
You're really offering this up as an analogy? seriously you feel comfortable typing this? :-\
Why are you not that type of person?
And just address the arguments. I know this is GetBig and insults fly wildly but this is one subject I take seriously only discuss with serious people. Keep with the snide comments and the "LOL" "LMAO" then best you go back to your Coleman vs Dorian thread.
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You are lying to yourself. There are labor laws that forbid company lost to be taken out of an employees check. And who cares if it doesn't belong to you.
A good part of our behavior is based on rewards and punishments. You don't speed as much as you like because you're afraid you'll get a ticket. You work hard at your job because you hope you will get a raise. You don't walk around in your public gym with your shirt off because you are afraid you will get kicked out. You don't punch the guy in the face that just insulted you because you are afraid of going to jail.
Don't try to fool me. And even worse, don't fool yourself. You're nothing special.
You are lying to yourself. There are labor laws that forbid company lost to be taken out of an employees check. And who cares if it doesn't belong to you.
Some places can and will take it out of people checks if short and lets say they can't they can write them up for being short and if written up multiple times they can get fired for it so either way I don't want to contribute to that because it benefits me , and it all goes back to IT DOESN'T belong to me
A good part of our behavior is based on rewards and punishments. You don't speed as much as you like because you're afraid you'll get a ticket. You work hard at your job because you hope you will get a raise. You don't walk around in your public gym with your shirt off because you are afraid you will get kicked out. You don't punch the guy in the face that just insulted you because you are afraid of going to jail.
Totally different than only being good because you're in fear and being ' watched ' by a God and fear eternal punishment in a pit of fire.
Don't try to fool me. And even worse, don't fool yourself. You're nothing special.
project much? who said I was anything special? how did you come to this conclusion? because I would return money that doesn't belong to me? when I was about 8 we went to the market and someone left their purse behind in a carriage my brother found it and took it to my mother , she found a lot of money inside and the woman's address on her ID , we went to her house and walked into the entry way and we heard a man screaming at a woman about that's all the money they had and she was crying hysterically , she knocked on the door returned the woman's money and needless to say it was her rent money that was due , she insisted my mother take a reward and she refused , this had an immense impact on me , this is part of the reason I wouldn't take money that belongs to me.
No fear or God needed to do the right thing
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Why are you not that type of person?
And just address the arguments. I know this is GetBig and insults fly wildly but this is one subject I take seriously only discuss with serious people. Keep with the snide comments and the "LOL" "LMAO" then best you go back to your Coleman vs Dorian thread.
Who said I wasn't that type of person? where is the snide remark? and you already predetermined you were gonna ignore me which proves you already made up your mind , you're not into serious debate.
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Some places can and will take it out of people checks if short and lets say they can't they can write them up for being short and if written up multiple times they can get fired for it so either way I don't want to contribute to that because it benefits me , and it all goes back to IT DOESN'T belong to me
Totally different than only being good because you're in fear and being ' watched ' by a God and fear eternal punishment in a pit of fire.
project much? who said I was anything special? how did you come to this conclusion? because I would return money that doesn't belong to me? when I was about 8 we went to the market and someone left their purse behind in a carriage my brother found it and took it to my mother , she found a lot of money inside and the woman's address on her ID , we went to her house and walked into the entry way and we heard a man screaming at a woman about that's all the money they had and she was crying hysterically , she knocked on the door returned the woman's money and needless to say it was her rent money that was due , she insisted my mother take a reward and she refused , this had an immense impact on me , this is part of the reason I wouldn't take money that belongs to me.
No fear or God needed to do the right thing
How did I come to that conclusion? Because how you portray yourself on this thread (not on others threads) is far above the norm. Most people today are very self absorbed, selfish, self-centered and look only after themselves. You claim to not be any of that. So by implication that makes you, in my opinion, very special. The trouble is that I've been reading your posts for years. I've been on this board for years and there are only a few people who strike as exceptionally good and decent. That Stuntmovie guy for one. BigBob is another. That Ursus guy. There was nothing about you the even hinted at exceptional decency and goodness. If what you claim about yourself is true then I was wrong -- horribly wrong.
But I don't think I am. I think you have stolen in the past, will steal in the future, will use people to satisfy your own desires. If you found $1,000 dollars in a paper bag you would not take it to the police station. You would keep it and keep your mouth shut about it. You, as you have in the past, make things up about yourself to either impress or convince others to whatever view you want. I even think you embellished that little story too to have more impact.
Right when you arrived at the door a man was screaming at the women that that was all the money they had. The rent money. The rent money that she for some reason she was carrying in her purse. The rent money in cash.
OK Narcissistic, whatever you say. If what you say it true, and God and you only know, then you're a saint.
Anyway, I've got to go to church now. Maybe I can one day be like you. And I'll remember not to carry the rent money around with me in cash.
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How did I come to that conclusion? Because how you portray yourself on this thread (not on others threads) is far above the norm. Most people today are very self absorbed, selfish, self-centered and look only after themselves. You claim to not be any of that. So by implication that makes you, in my opinion, very special. The trouble is that I've been reading your posts for years. I've been on this board for years and there are only a few people who strike as exceptionally good and decent. That Stuntmovie guy for one. BigBob is another. That Ursus guy. There was nothing about you the even hinted at exceptional decency and goodness. If what you claim about yourself is true then I was wrong -- horribly wrong.
But I don't think I am. I think you have stolen in the past, will steal in the future, will use people to satisfy your own desires. If you found $1,000 dollars in a paper bag you would not take it to the police station. You would keep it and keep your mouth shut about it. You, as you have in the past, make things up about yourself to either impress or convince others to whatever view you want. I even think you embellished that little story too to have more impact.
Right when you arrived at the door a man was screaming at the women that that was all the money they had. The rent money. The rent money that she for some reason she was carrying in her purse. The rent money in cash.
OK Narcissistic, whatever you say. If what you say it true, and God and you only know, then you're a saint.
Anyway, I've got to go to church now. Maybe I can one day be like you. And I'll remember not to carry the rent money around with me in cash.
How did I come to that conclusion? Because how you portray yourself on this thread (not on others threads) is far above the norm. Most people today are very self absorbed, selfish, self-centered and look only after themselves. You claim to not be any of that. So by implication that makes you, in my opinion, very special. The trouble is that I've been reading your posts for years. I've been on this board for years and there are only a few people who strike as exceptionally good and decent. That Stuntmovie guy for one. BigBob is another. That Ursus guy. There was nothing about you the even hinted at exceptional decency and goodness. If what you claim about yourself is true then I was wrong -- horribly wrong.
You see what you want and if you're only basing what you see by what is typed on here then you must know you're missing a LOT more to people than what's typed on a message board , I know you can only go by what's typed but in the end it's not entirely accurate
But I don't think I am. I think you have stolen in the past, will steal in the future, will use people to satisfy your own desires. If you found $1,000 dollars in a paper bag you would not take it to the police station. You would keep it and keep your mouth shut about it. You, as you have in the past, make things up about yourself to either impress or convince others to whatever view you want. I even think you embellished that little story too to have more impact.
I don't think I ever said I was perfect and you're now turning this into a ad hominem attack , when the original point I was making is people can be moral without fear
Right when you arrived at the door a man was screaming at the women that that was all the money they had. The rent money. The rent money that she for some reason she was carrying in her purse. The rent money in cash.
OK Narcissistic, whatever you say. If what you say it true, and God and you only know, then you're a saint.
Anyway, I've got to go to church now. Maybe I can one day be like you. And I'll remember not to carry the rent money around with me in cash.
See now you're accusing me of lying , which I don't care but it makes you a hypocrite for just complaining about being serious and not having any snide remarks then you follow up with personal attacks , like I said you're not into a serious discussion you made up your mind already :-\
Believe the story or not , I explained to you why I don't believe it's ever okay to steal , without fear of punishment and how this example had a profound impact on me that I remember to this day 33 years later and you don't like the response and decide it's a lie , great response ::)
Maybe you can be like me one day , where you wouldn't steal because you know it's wrong , instead of not doing it because you're being watched by a vengeful God and may be punished for it . I can be moral and decent without God can you?
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ND, are you an atheist, or do you hate God?
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So what? Why should I care? People hurt me all the time? Where did this, your, morality come from? If I found my neighbor's wallet with $60.00 inside I'm going to keep it. He's already hurt that he lost his wallet. He'll never know it's me that found it. And if I don't keep it somebody else will. I would rather it be me. Sixty bucks is sixty buck. A nice vial of trenbolona that I wouldn't else have had. Plus, I need it more. And the guy's a dick. He deserves it.
your giving me a headache. you need an authority to tell you what is right and wrong ? morality is based on how behavior affects others. if the bible never said that, would you still agree? if the bible said morality was based on personal pleasure, would you believe that ? your saying that we cant know a behavior is immoral without making a reference to the bible... its baffling.. so did those people who existed before the bible was written commit no sins? they didnt know what was right and wrong? i could make this rebuttle better but ive got to be off to the gym now so i can make it to see my woman by the time she gets off work.. im looking forward to continuing this discussion later
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Though coming from a Christian church going family, I was an agnostic (much to my parents horror) from my mid teens throughout my twenties. But at some point, when deciding how you want to live, what kind of man you want to be, you can't -- well at least I can't -- sit on the fence for the entirety of my life. At some point you have to take that leap of faith no matter what side you choose. I have not the slightest doubt in my mind that I would be a different person had I chosen to believe that in the end it doesn't matter in this world if you are a good person or a bad person. But I would definitely have had a tendency to "sweep moral issues under the rug." I would be less honest and more selfish. I would do things if I could get away with it if it suited me. Like when the cashier owe me four dollars in change she mistakenly gave me three one dollar bills and a ten dollar bill. Atheist Pellius would have just kept the ten. Not my problem that the clerk is sloppy and I always prefer a ten dollar bill over a one. But religious Pellius asks himself that when he stands before God and has to account for his deeds how important will that ten dollars be now?
Excellent post. Pellius your posts are very refreshing on this board.
when the original point I was making is people can be moral without fear
Maybe you can be like me one day , where you wouldn't steal because you know it's wrong , instead of not doing it because you're being watched by a vengeful God and may be punished for it . I can be moral and decent without God can you?
Without God, being moral is what ever you decide is moral to you.
ND you can't win this, because if there is a God the Biblical morals will always be the "True North" and if there isn't, well then anything goes.
I think it's pointless going further in this debate unless you admit to this.
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ND you can't win this, because if there is a God the Biblical morals will always be the "True North" and if there isn't, well then anything goes.
I think it's pointless going further in this debate unless you admit to this.
no, if there is a god, the bible certainly was not written by him, its full of logical inconsistancies, historical inaccuracies, and flawed moral guidelines. even if the bible was perfect, we still wouldnt know if it came from god and we would still have to think about things on our own and come to know right and wrong through our own cognition.. or else we really wouldnt know right from wrong at all. we would just be doing as were told.
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ND, are you an atheist, or do you hate God?
I am an atheist and an antitheist , I don't hate ' God ' because to me there is no God , I hate the concept of God as described in the holy books
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Excellent post. Pellius your posts are very refreshing on this board.
Without God, being moral is what ever you decide is moral to you.
ND you can't win this, because if there is a God the Biblical morals will always be the "True North" and if there isn't, well then anything goes.
I think it's pointless going further in this debate unless you admit to this.
No anything doesn't go , according to whom? I am proof of that to the contrary , I'm without God and manage to leave a live I don't have to be ashamed of or live in fear of being punished for
With God anything goes as long as you are repentant , I could murder someone in cold blood and be forgiven , I could be a serial rapist and still be forgiven ( if I'm sincere ) I could beat my kids , cheat on my wife and still after all that damage be in heaven .
Anything goes with God as well poor example
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pellius laid the smackdown enough for today, at this point it's wasting time and energy for no purpose with immature ignorant losers like ND , the ronnie coleman lover and tbombz the specialist of deep anal massages.
At the end of the day, to each his choices and their consequences.
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no, if there is a god, the bible certainly was not written by him, its full of logical inconsistancies, historical inaccuracies, and flawed moral guidelines. even if the bible was perfect, we still wouldnt know if it came from god and we would still have to think about things on our own and come to know right and wrong through our own cognition.. or else we really wouldnt know right from wrong at all. we would just be doing as were told.
You re so dumb ... so ignorant, it's staggering.
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pellius layed the smackdown enough for today, at this point it's wasting time and energy for no purpose with immature ignorant losers like ND , the ronnie coleman lover and tbombz the specialist of deep anal massages.
At the end of the day, to each his choices and their consequences.
He laid the smackdown ? ??? ad hominem attacks are the last ditched effort of the intellectually bankrupt , he admitted he's amoral and only behaving out of fear and being watched , he lamented about snide remarks and returns by calling me a liar , he admitted he already had a predetermined conclusion and wanted a ' serious discussion ' , he outright dismissed facts.
On second thought I agree he did lay the smack down but it was on himself :-\ like you , he was in way over his head before he began and was already looking for a way out.
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Pellius laid the smackdown.
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Excellent post. Pellius your posts are very refreshing on this board.
Without God, being moral is what ever you decide is moral to you.
ND you can't win this, because if there is a God the Biblical morals will always be the "True North" and if there isn't, well then anything goes.
I think it's pointless going further in this debate unless you admit to this.
ND is a clever man, however I feel he plays dumb all the time and thinks everyone will cater to his illogical way of thinking by producing a pattern as an example to camouflage the real truth.
Arguing that an average atheist could have as much moral values as an average Christian is not only wrong but outrageously wrong, clearly he hasn't studied history enough, ya very easy to point out the cruelty that Christians have caused, Let's review some of the ancient trend created by nonbelievers in a Creator, Canaanite nations-1300-1000BC, sacrificing human children's to a worthless statues, Egypt 1500-1000 BC whipping human workers as if they were animals, Assyrian Empire 900BC-600 BC- public displaying of humans being boiled Alive and Public flaying, this was done after a battle, often random prisoners of war where picked for this randomly. Babylonian Empire 500BC Mandatory military laws for 14 and 15 year old, Greco-Roman periods of 300-50BC massive amounts of sexual immorality, orgies and homosexuality. When you have God-fearing nation alot of these barbarias behaviour goes out the window.
funny how you say you wouldn't behave in a certain manner because of your values, when literally you are the only generation that can claim this as opposed to previous generation when non-Christain nations had put cut off heads by the dozens on the end of sharp sticks and scatter them randomly across their city in order to bring obedience, well I rather not misbehave out of fear of a God then fear of a public authority to boil me alive or crucify me.
If you study your history, you certainly wouldn't argue your silly point, while there is barbarias behavior among Christan nations, it is overwhelmingly obvious that the behaviour of a non'Christain nation is tenfold in cruelty
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ND is a clever man, however I feel he plays dumb all the time and thinks everyone will cater to his illogical way of thinking by producing a pattern as an example to camouflage the real truth.
Arguing that an average atheist could have as much moral values as an average Christian is not only wrong but outrageously wrong, clearly he hasn't studied history enough, ya very easy to point out the cruelty that Christians have caused, Let's review some of the ancient trend created by nonbelievers in a Creator, Canaanite nations-1300-1000BC, sacrificing human children's to a worthless statues, Egypt 1500-1000 BC whipping human workers as if they were animals, Assyrian Empire 900BC-600 BC- public displaying of humans being boiled Alive and Public flaying, this was done after a battle, often random prisoners of war where picked for this randomly. Babylonian Empire 500BC Mandatory military laws for 14 and 15 year old, Greco-Roman periods of 300-50BC massive amounts of sexual immorality, orgies and homosexuality. When you have God-fearing nation alot of these barbarias behaviour goes out the window.
funny how you say you wouldn't behave in a certain manner because of your values, when literally you are the only generation that can claim this as opposed to previous generation when non-Christain nations had put cut off heads by the dozens on the end of sharp sticks and scatter them randomly across their city in order to bring obedience, well I rather not misbehave out of fear of a God then fear of a public authority to boil me alive or crucify me.
If you study your history, you certainly wouldn't argue your silly point, while there is barbarias behavior among Christan nations, it is overwhelmingly obvious that the behaviour of a non'Christain nation is tenfold in cruelty
The point I was trying to make was religion hasn't cornered the market on morals. I'm not amoral because I'm an atheist and I'm not moral because I am one
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The point I was trying to make was religion hasn't cornered the market on morals. I'm not amoral because I'm an atheist and I'm not moral because I am one
I agree with what you are saying above 100%, but when you measure averages there is no comparison
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your giving me a headache. you need an authority to tell you what is right and wrong ? morality is based on how behavior affects others. if the bible never said that, would you still agree? if the bible said morality was based on personal pleasure, would you believe that ? your saying that we cant know a behavior is immoral without making a reference to the bible... its baffling.. so did those people who existed before the bible was written commit no sins? they didnt know what was right and wrong? i could make this rebuttle better but ive got to be off to the gym now so i can make it to see my woman by the time she gets off work.. im looking forward to continuing this discussion later
As you are well aware, I don't exactly hold you in high regard. I find you insufferably arrogant and very full of yourself. Also, I think you live an immoral life style and you are very blase and cavalier about it. But, in regard to these issues, issues that I take very seriously, i.e., how do we create good people? I put aside as much as I can personal feelings as you come across as sincere and genuine. Unlike other issues, here, as in the past similar discussions, you seem open to an honest debate and seem to instinctively refrain from gratuitous insults. Therefore I will show you the respect you deserve.
Tbombz, what I am saying is simply that if you don't have a value system outside of yourself. An outside authority you are held accountable to, then you, ultimately, only have to answer to yourself. How could it be any other way? You either answer to yourself or to someone else? Now, it doesn't mean that if you become your own moral system of justice, essentially your own God, that you will automatically become a bad person. It really depends on your nature. For my part, I don't trust human nature. Therefore, a value system outside of the often very elastic and whimsical nature of man I believe creates a better human being. Not always. Nothing is always. If a child grows up with very permissive parents it doesn't guarantee that he will be a spoiled, self-centered person. It just makes it more likely than if he had some supervision and moral guard rails.
Let me ask you a simple question and I have to trust you on your honor to be honest. It's not a trick question but sometimes a discussion doesn't always have to be about who is right and who is wrong. Who wins and who loses. But about clarity. Being clear as to each other's position and perhaps coming to a mutual understanding rather than agreement.
Say you were in a bad part of town very late at night alone walking across a deserted dark parking lot to get your car. Now coming towards you is about a half dozen young adult males (late teens early twenties) of various ethnic origins. Would a caution light go off in you? Doesn't have to be fear or great alarm but sort of a code yellow. That you better be a little bit more on your toes then if they weren't there coming towards you. That if you were just alone. If so, why? If not, why not?
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no, if there is a god, the bible certainly was not written by him, its full of logical inconsistancies, historical inaccuracies, and flawed moral guidelines. even if the bible was perfect, we still wouldnt know if it came from god and we would still have to think about things on our own and come to know right and wrong through our own cognition.. or else we really wouldnt know right from wrong at all. we would just be doing as were told.
Tbombz, please understand, we are talking about matters of faith. I cannot prove or disprove the existence of God any more than you can. We are not talking about what we know but about what we believe and what will make for better people and therefore a better world.
You're young, you have not live through and witnesses the gradual degradation of our culture as it has gotten more secular and permissive. When I was sixteen the big score was did you get a kiss on your date. If a girl got pregnant in high school it was a big deal and a source of disgrace and dishonor. Often she was pulled out of school and sent away. The idea of a couple living together unmarried was considered scandalous and was referred to as living in sin. There was this long lost concept that kept people in line, and it wasn't laws or the police, it was a concept called stigma. If you cheated on your wife, got pregnant, got arrested for stealing, and, yes, even if you were unemployed and a healthy adult male living on the dole, you were stigmatized, a source of embarrassment, and often shunned. You bore the mark of the scarlet letter. "That's the boy who was caught stealing," your parents would point out. "That family is living off welfare." "She's only sixteen and still in high school and this happens. I feel so sorry for her parents."
And it mattered in those days. In those days people also had another trait that has long ago disappeared as the culture revolution of the early 70s began to take hold and blossom by the 1990s. And that was a sense of shame. President Clinton pretty much sealed the fate in helping to create an utter shameless culture.
When I was your age people wouldn't even dream of posting some of the stuff you post on this board. Putting you private and intensely personal life on full public display. There use to be a sense of propriety -- another long since dead concept. The concept that there is a time and place for everything. When it is proper and appropriate and when it is not. Propriety.
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Pellius, my fellow seasoned citizen, it is true that all too often, that which is unnatural is unfortunately nothing more than human nature. This describes tbombz penchant for being assfucked. He will call wrong, right and all in the name of doing what he wants to do.
Personally I don't believe in God but I do think there is a great deal of wisdom contained in the Bible, especially so the New Testament. But what of the muslime's queeron, the lds's book of moron or the krishna's bhagavad gita and srimad bhagavatan to name but a few "religious" texts? Fuck that noise.
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See, it doesn't work that way for me. I still believe in right and wrong, because that's how I was raised, and I just feel better doing the right thing. Call it what you will. I definitely empathize with my fellow human being.
That, or I'm just a lazy atheist.
Do you have any children? If so, how old? And are either or both of your parents still alive?
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Pellius, my fellow seasoned citizen, it is true that all too often, that which is unnatural is unfortunately nothing more than human nature. This describes tbombz penchant for being assfucked. He will call wrong, right and all in the name of doing what he wants to do.
Personally I don't believe in God but I do think there is a great deal of wisdom contained in the Bible, especially so the New Testament. But what of the muslime's queeron, the lds's book of moron or the krishna's bhagavad gita and srimad bhagavatan to name but a few "religious" texts? Fuck that noise.
Actually, it is not his sexual proclivities that I necessarily take issue with, but the fact that he feels the need to put it on public display. And I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "that which is unnatural is unfortunately nothing more than human nature." A pedophile is attracted to prepubescent children. This is part of his nature. Is it human nature or a sickness or an aberration? True homosexuality, specifically a male being sexually attracted to another male, is relatively rare. Maybe about 2% of the population. But as a behavior becomes more accepted and common place and even encourage and glorified you are going to have more of it. One will engage in homosexuality because it has now become chic. You don't necessarily have be sexually attracted to other males to engage in homosexual behavior as proven routinely in our prisons. In ancient Greece, taking on a ten year old boy as a sexual toy was part of the culture and the men didn't consider themselves homosexuals. If you grew up in a culture where this was common place and didn't know anything else you would think this was quite normal behavior as well. Same for sacrificing virgins to a God. Is this part of human nature?
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Come on, my friend, please. Do you want to have a serious discussion? Are we talking Muslims? Do I even have to comment on this? Muslims?
Slavery existed EVERYWHERE throughout history. What distinguished Western society, the United Sates, is that we fought a war to end it. The Quakers, Christians, played a huge role in the anti-slavery movement.
And the percentage Priest molesting children is not any higher, and in fact lower, then the general population of males except that it gets reported more.
Do I have to make a list of evil done by secularist and got tit for tat? Heard of Communism? Nazism? Fascism? I got you on dead bodies by far.
Friend, I already made it abundantly clear that I know there are many good and decent atheist and many rotten theist. The point I was trying to make was that if you believe you have to answer to somebody. That you will be held accountable for your behavior. This will have an impact on how you behave. Not 100% of the time and not 100% for everybody. Nothing is 100%. Just like having strict supervision from a parent isn't going to guarantee good behavior from your children it's just going to make it more likely. I know for myself that I have been kept on the straight and narrow many times because I believe that one day I will have to account for myself. All the things that I think are so important and so want in life: wealth, fame, popularity, respect, happiness, accomplishment... will matter very little when I stand before God. He isn't going to ask how big my house was, what kind of car did I drive, was my girl friend hot, how big my muscles were, how much money did I have, was I popular and did people like me.... none of that will matter. It keeps things in perspective for me.
Remember that scene in The Green Mile where Tom Hanks may have to execute a man he believes is innocent? He has to do it, right? It's his job. So when he stands before God and is asked why he killed an innocent man what is Hank's character going to say? "It was my job?"
Here it is. It's just the first 20 seconds of the clip. You can always justify any type of behavior when you just have to answer to yourself. "It was my job"
You need to educate yourself. I can see a serious dearth of information spewing forth from your keyboard.
When people set their piety upon reward, it is always hollow, and they fall from it the furthest.
When they recognize that they are mammals and must live with other mammals, we are destined to be better off.
Try reading what Frederick Douglas has to say about the more devout Christians in the time of slaver, and then come back and talk to m e.
You cherry pick from religion like a total idiot. You come off incredibly weak and stupid.
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You need to educate yourself. I can see a serious dearth of information spewing forth from your keyboard.
When people set their piety upon reward, it is always hollow, and they fall from it the furthest.
When they recognize that they are mammals and must live with other mammals, we are destined to be better off.
Try reading what Frederick Douglas has to say about the more devout Christians in the time of slaver, and then come back and talk to m e.
You cherry pick from religion like a total idiot. You come off incredibly weak and stupid.
I believe the good should be rewarded and the bad punished. Is that hollow? Forget about the after life. What should we do with people who do bad? Hurt other people? Steal from them? Damage their property?
What should we do with people who do good? Who make other people's lives better? Create products that enhances the quality of their life? Say a medication that relives pain? A cheaper more powerful computer? Who provides entertainment and laughter? Who writes books and novels that move and touch other people? Develops automobiles that are safer, more durable, get more miles to the gallon? Protect people from harm?
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You need to educate yourself. I can see a serious dearth of information spewing forth from your keyboard.
When people set their piety upon reward, it is always hollow, and they fall from it the furthest.
When they recognize that they are mammals and must live with other mammals, we are destined to be better off.
Try reading what Frederick Douglas has to say about the more devout Christians in the time of slaver, and then come back and talk to m e.
You cherry pick from religion like a total idiot. You come off incredibly weak and stupid.
Are you capable of keeping this thread civilized? if so,... then let me start by stating that your post is rather narrow minded or maybe I understood it wrong, but if you are implying that we are nothing more then mammals, well. Can other mammals pray spiritually, can other mammals create a scientific environment, can they learn to read or write, can other mammals be aware that the earth is round or that we travel around he sun, can mammals have ambition or distinguished hobbies, can mammals have empathy for other mammals outside of their kind, would a mammal bury their dead for moral reasons, billions of distinctions of humans being incredibly unique, hardly a result of evolution, otherwise at least one other species would have evolved at least 1 human trait, right?
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you live an immoral life style and you are very blase and cavalier about it.
::)
morality is based on how behavior affects others. sex and drugs are not immoral though they may be unwise. ;)
Tbombz, what I am saying is simply that if you don't have a value system outside of yourself. An outside authority you are held accountable to, then you, ultimately, only have to answer to yourself. How could it be any other way? You either answer to yourself or to someone else? Now, it doesn't mean that if you become your own moral system of justice, essentially your own God, that you will automatically become a bad person. It really depends on your nature. For my part, I don't trust human nature. Therefore, a value system outside of the often very elastic and whimsical nature of man I believe creates a better human being. Not always. Nothing is always. If a child grows up with very permissive parents it doesn't guarantee that he will be a spoiled, self-centered person. It just makes it more likely than if he had some supervision and moral guard rails.
Let me ask you a simple question and I have to trust you on your honor to be honest. It's not a trick question but sometimes a discussion doesn't always have to be about who is right and who is wrong. Who wins and who loses. But about clarity. Being clear as to each other's position and perhaps coming to a mutual understanding rather than agreement.
Say you were in a bad part of town very late at night alone walking across a deserted dark parking lot to get your car. Now coming towards you is about a half dozen young adult males (late teens early twenties) of various ethnic origins. Would a caution light go off in you? Doesn't have to be fear or great alarm but sort of a code yellow. That you better be a little bit more on your toes then if they weren't there coming towards you. That if you were just alone. If so, why? If not, why not?
where do you get a value system outside of yourself? how do you know its the right value system? you have to think on your own and come to conclusions about what is right and wrong. what is wrong is intentionally/knowingly hurting another being.
ill continue this post later
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::)
morality is based on how behavior affects others. sex and drugs are not immoral though they may be unwise. ;)
where do you get a value system outside of yourself? how do you know its the right value system? you have to think on your own and come to conclusions about what is right and wrong. what is wrong is intentionally/knowingly hurting another being.
ill continue this post later
Tbombs, I think you are extremely smart and are definately open minded, I actually enjoy reading your posts................BUT WITH A STATEMENT LIKE THAT...................
........................ ...............i AM TAKING YOU TO THE NUTHOUSE. :D
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This is GB pussy. Toughen up or beat it.
wow just wow you're just as bad A poster now as you were on the x board no wonder it was nuked...
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Are you capable of keeping this thread civilized? if so,... then let me start by stating that your post is rather narrow minded or maybe I understood it wrong, but if you are implying that we are nothing more then mammals, well. Can other mammals pray spiritually, can other mammals create a scientific environment, can they learn to read or write, can other mammals be aware that the earth is round or that we travel around he sun, can mammals have ambition or distinguished hobbies, can mammals have empathy for other mammals outside of their kind, would a mammal bury their dead for moral reasons, billions of distinctions of humans being incredibly unique, hardly a result of evolution, otherwise at least one other species would have evolved at least 1 human trait, right?
Wrong. How on earth did you get there? ???
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Wrong. How on earth did you get there? ???
Simple, if we are evolving in the same path and process as all other species why are we light years ahead of our closest species, why the gap. The process of evolution= all ships are sailing in the same direction right, or maybe our ship is a speedboat ;D
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::)
morality is based on how behavior affects others. sex and drugs are not immoral though they may be unwise. ;)
You have admitted and bragged about having sex with married women. And an immoral act does not necessarily have to effect someone else. Who hasn't seen a pic or video of some woman willing allowing herself to be penetrated by an animal?
This is you, making your own rules, being your own God.
where do you get a value system outside of yourself? how do you know its the right value system? you have to think on your own and come to conclusions about what is right and wrong. what is wrong is intentionally/knowingly hurting another being.
Yes, you make a fair and very important point here and one I have struggled with myself. One of the very reasons I was an agnostic throughout my teens and most of my twenties. A value system outside of yourself is a necessary but an insufficient condition to a good and moral life.
Hurting someone without good reason is a good rule to go buy. The problem is that when that general rule is accountable to just you, you can always justify to yourself that you have a good reason to hurt someone. You can see it all around you. I speak from personal experience.
I know people talk about all the various religions throughout the world so which one is true? Which is the right one? For my part, I am concerned only with the religions that espoused ethical monotheism. The belief in one set of laws; one value system that applies to everybody. And most importantly -- one God. For example, murder (not killing) is always wrong. Wrong for everybody. It doesn't matter what your culture says or does. What your belief system is. The same set of rules applies to everybody. Ethical monotheism, one God and one ethical system, was first introduced into the world by Judaism. Before that most, if not all religions, were polytheistic based.
From that stand point there are only three major monotheistic religions in the world: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Because of the relationship between Judaism and Christianity -- both Bible based, one (Christianity) coming from the other (Judaism). I consider them, as value system, pretty much the same. The promote pretty much the same moral and ethical system, and rules of behavior. They differ only in their theology. So now I break down the choices between Judaism/Christianity and Islam. Again not so much as a theology but as a value system. How we should live? What kind of person we should be?
I do not believe that the value system promoted by Islam in general creates good people, a better society and a better world compared to Christianity/Judaism. Not 100%. There are many good Muslims many horrible Christians/Jews. Just in general. A society based on Judeo/Christian ethics I believe will always be better than a society based on Islam.
I don't believe that in Christianity you ever reach a point where you feel you have all the answers. Like life, Christianity is a continuous struggle. Why do good people suffer? If God created everything why is there evil in the world? Before he created the world he seem to be fine with his angels in Heaven. Why not stop there? Why not just create more angels? Why bother putting us through all this? All this suffering in the world.
I don't think we are supposed to know all the answers. It's easy to believe in something when you know all the answers. It's easy to believe in Jesus when he is standing there in front of you inviting you to stick your hand in his wounds. This is where faith comes in.
Jesus told Thomas, “Because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.” (John 20:29)
It might be interesting to note that Islam means to submit to God. Israel means to struggle with God.
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Simple, if we are evolving in the same path and process as all other species why are we light years ahead of our closest species, why the gap. The process of evolution= all ships are sailing in the same direction right, or maybe our ship is a speedboat ;D
Of course the above is according to evolution, certainly not what believe
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You have admitted and bragged about having sex with married women. And an immoral act does not necessarily have to effect someone else. Who hasn't seen a pic or video of some woman willing allowing herself to be penetrated by an animal?
This is you, making your own rules, being your own God.
Yes, you make a fair and very important point here and one I have struggled with myself. One of the very reasons I was an agnostic throughout my teens and most of my twenties. A value system outside of yourself is a necessary but an insufficient condition to a good and moral life.
Hurting someone without good reason is a good rule to go buy. The problem is that when that general rule is accountable to just you, you can always justify to yourself that you have a good reason to hurt someone. You can see it all around you. I speak from personal experience.
I know people talk about all the various religions throughout the world so which one is true? Which is the right one? For my part, I am concerned only with the religions that espoused ethical monotheism. The belief in one set of laws; one value system that applies to everybody. And most importantly -- one God. For example, murder (not killing) is always wrong. Wrong for everybody. It doesn't matter what your culture says or does. What your belief system is. The same set of rules applies to everybody. Ethical monotheism, one God and one ethical system, was first introduced into the world by Judaism. Before that most, if not all religions, were polytheistic based.
From that stand point there are only three major monotheistic religions in the world: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Because of the relationship between Judaism and Christianity -- both Bible based, one (Christianity) coming from the other (Judaism). I consider them, as value system, pretty much the same. The promote pretty much the same moral and ethical system, and rules of behavior. They differ only in their theology. So now I break down the choices between Judaism/Christianity and Islam. Again not so much as a theology but as a value system. How we should live? What kind of person we should be?
I do not believe that the value system promoted by Islam in general creates good people, a better society and a better world compared to Christianity/Judaism. Not 100%. There are many good Muslims many horrible Christians/Jews. Just in general. A society based on Judeo/Christian ethics I believe will always be better than a society based on Islam.
I don't believe that in Christianity you ever reach a point where you feel you have all the answers. Like life, Christianity is a continuous struggle. Why do good people suffer? If God created everything why is there evil in the world? Before he created the world he seem to be fine with his angels in Heaven. Why not stop there? Why not just create more angels? Why bother putting us through all this? All this suffering in the world.
I don't think we are supposed to know all the answers. It's easy to believe in something when you know all the answers. It's easy to believe in Jesus when he is standing there in front of you inviting you to stick your hand in his wounds. This is where faith comes in.
Jesus told Thomas, “Because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.” (John 20:29)
It might be interesting to note that Islam means to submit to God. Israel means to struggle with God.
your very misguided. but well intentioned.
morality is completely based on how behavior affects others. its important to note that wisdom is different from morality.. somethings that are often referred to as immoral, like drugs and sex, are not immoral because they do not hurt anyone else but they can be very unwise if abused and lead to much more personal struggle than necessary.
having sex with a married woman... whose husband wanted her to have sex. very different situation than participating in adultery. in one situation you are knowingly hurting another person feelings (the spouse being cheated on). in the other you are helping a couple increase their satisfcation with their sex life. one behavior is positive the other is negative.
to clarify, because it seems you were thinking i meant you could hurt someone if you had good reason to do so, that is not what i espoused. ANY action which hurts another being is immoral. this leads to a slippery slope but its a slope i feel can be defended if taking into account a benevolent god who makes everything right in the end.
i agree about us not supposed to know. and its a big reason why i dont believe in the bible, besides its historical inaccuracies and logical inconsistancies. those people who wrrote the bible did not know anything we dont know. as for your question about why there is "evil" and suffering... i think in the context of god, spirits, and heaven.. in the context of the world as a breeding and development ground for new souls being prepared for heaven... i think its quite obvious why evil exists, why we must suffer, why the world is not perfect. we need to grow as human beings, become humble and empathetic.
your mention of beastiality... why would that be immoral? who is being hurt? what damage is being done? assuming the animal is not being raped but voluntarily participating..
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Consensual bestiality. I like that.
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your very misguided. but well intentioned.
morality is completely based on how behavior affects others. its important to note that wisdom is different from morality.. somethings that are often referred to as immoral, like drugs and sex, are not immoral because they do not hurt anyone else but they can be very unwise if abused and lead to much more personal struggle than necessary.
having sex with a married woman... whose husband wanted her to have sex. very different situation than participating in adultery. in one situation you are knowingly hurting another person feelings (the spouse being cheated on). in the other you are helping a couple increase their satisfcation with their sex life. one behavior is positive the other is negative.
to clarify, because it seems you were thinking i meant you could hurt someone if you had good reason to do so, that is not what i espoused. ANY action which hurts another being is immoral. this leads to a slippery slope but its a slope i feel can be defended if taking into account a benevolent god who makes everything right in the end.
i agree about us not supposed to know. and its a big reason why i dont believe in the bible, besides its historical inaccuracies and logical inconsistancies. those people who wrrote the bible did not know anything we dont know. as for your question about why there is "evil" and suffering... i think in the context of god, spirits, and heaven.. in the context of the world as a breeding and development ground for new souls being prepared for heaven... i think its quite obvious why evil exists, why we must suffer, why the world is not perfect. we need to grow as human beings, become humble and empathetic.
your mention of beastiality... why would that be immoral? who is being hurt? what damage is being done? assuming the animal is not being raped but voluntarily participating..
That's a bunch of self-serving bullshit. I see you do that a lot.
There are obviously very deep problems in a marriage if the husband wants to see his wife fucked, they just aren't acknowledging them...It's not normal, or moral.
and you are selfishly taking advantage if their situation for your own pleasure.
I was approached to do that shit and i said no, and told them they need to work on their marriage
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Religion is the biggest scam ever invented.
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That's a bunch of self-serving bullshit. I see you do that a lot.
There are obviously very deep problems in a marriage if the husband wants to see his wife fucked, they just aren't acknowledging them...It's not normal, or moral.
and you are selfishly taking advantage if their situation for your own pleasure.
I was approached to do that shit and i said no, and told them they need to work on their marriage
you might base your relationship off of exclusivity, making each other feel special through mutual exclusion of all other people. feeding each others egos by acting like there arent any other attractive people in the world.
there are other people who dont need to feel special. they view themselves as a member of society, equal to the rest. they dont need their partner to act like there are no other suitable partners in the world. they can enjoy watching their loved one enjoy another person and be happy for them, and even turned on by the sight.
if done in a healthy manner, open relationships are an indication of extreme spiritual development. not immorality.
Wow tbombz that last post clearly shows that you've been deeply mislead.
Using drugs isn't immoral cause it doesn't hurt anyone? Who do you think that money ultimately goes to when you buy those drugs? Peace loving hippies?
well if someone bought drugs knowing that the money was going to a violent, immoral individual then they would be aiding that behavior and thus they would be committing an immoral act. but otherwise no wrong has been done.
It's okay to have sex with an animal as long as its voluntarily participating? What?! I feel sorry for any animal that comes your way which happens to spark your fancy and doesn't tell you "no".
im not an expert on the matter but i would think most animals would jump at the chance to lay a human, being how we are infinitely superior and all.
The Bible having historical and logical inaccuracies? There are none, and if you don't believe me research any questions you have by looking into some christian sources for a change and ask at this website for any nagging questions you're left with http://forums.catholic.com/
age of the earth? existence of adam and eve? egotistical, revenge seeking, imperfect god? ::)
I hope you stay sincere in your search for truth..
;)
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Actually, it is not his sexual proclivities that I necessarily take issue with, but the fact that he feels the need to put it on public display. And I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "that which is unnatural is unfortunately nothing more than human nature." A pedophile is attracted to prepubescent children. This is part of his nature. Is it human nature or a sickness or an aberration? True homosexuality, specifically a male being sexually attracted to another male, is relatively rare. Maybe about 2% of the population. But as a behavior becomes more accepted and common place and even encourage and glorified you are going to have more of it. One will engage in homosexuality because it has now become chic. You don't necessarily have be sexually attracted to other males to engage in homosexual behavior as proven routinely in our prisons. In ancient Greece, taking on a ten year old boy as a sexual toy was part of the culture and the men didn't consider themselves homosexuals. If you grew up in a culture where this was common place and didn't know anything else you would think this was quite normal behavior as well. Same for sacrificing virgins to a God. Is this part of human nature?
To get fucked in the ass by another man is far from natural, but it is human nature (amongst the deviant) to disdain that which is natural for that which we want to do be cause we want to do it.
People are greedy. They want it now and don't care who they harm so long as they can claim they are harming no one. To do wrong is not what makes us human, it is what makes us inhuman. The ancient Greeks were pederasts. Perverts. Child molesters. Fags. I see that good old tbombz this bestiality is fine and dandy. His reasoning? Common amongst those seeking to do wrong and call it right. Zoophiliacs are harming no one... This deviant is of the mindset that if it feels good, do it no matter the consequence(s) so long as you can claim to be harming no one with the caveat being if you are harming yourself then that's your choice to make and no one else's. Bull shit.
Fuck that noise and any that would agree with such filth.
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if it feels good, do it no matter the consequence(s) so long as you can claim to be harming no one with the caveat being if you are harming yourself then that's your choice to make and no one else's.
now your thinking ;)
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your very misguided. but well intentioned.
morality is completely based on how behavior affects others. its important to note that wisdom is different from morality.. somethings that are often referred to as immoral, like drugs and sex, are not immoral because they do not hurt anyone else but they can be very unwise if abused and lead to much more personal struggle than necessary.
having sex with a married woman... whose husband wanted her to have sex. very different situation than participating in adultery. in one situation you are knowingly hurting another person feelings (the spouse being cheated on). in the other you are helping a couple increase their satisfcation with their sex life. one behavior is positive the other is negative.
to clarify, because it seems you were thinking i meant you could hurt someone if you had good reason to do so, that is not what i espoused. ANY action which hurts another being is immoral. this leads to a slippery slope but its a slope i feel can be defended if taking into account a benevolent god who makes everything right in the end.
i agree about us not supposed to know. and its a big reason why i dont believe in the bible, besides its historical inaccuracies and logical inconsistancies. those people who wrrote the bible did not know anything we dont know. as for your question about why there is "evil" and suffering... i think in the context of god, spirits, and heaven.. in the context of the world as a breeding and development ground for new souls being prepared for heaven... i think its quite obvious why evil exists, why we must suffer, why the world is not perfect. we need to grow as human beings, become humble and empathetic.
your mention of bestiality... why would that be immoral? who is being hurt? what damage is being done? assuming the animal is not being raped but voluntarily participating..
Adultery is clearly define. Having sex with a married woman is adultery whether or not you have the husband's or the wife's permission.
If someone is taking a knife to your family and cutting throats you would not try to hurt him to save other lives as well as your own? Do you think it is moral to do nothing to save another person from harm even if it means harming someone else?
Bestiality is not immoral as long as it's consensual?
They are perfect examples of what happens when people make their own rules. You will always be able to justify immoral acts if it suits you.
And I am the one very misguided.
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How exactly does an animal give consent? One bark or two?
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now your thinking ;)
As I have stated elsewhere, I leave you to your portrait.
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In a life without God. In a life without immortality. Where there is no ultimate cosmic justice. The good are not rewarded, the bad are not punished. A Saint and a Sinner share the same cosmic fate. The concepts such as good and bad, right and wrong, simply becomes a matter of personal opinion. They become essentially meaningless. The logical conclusion is not necessarily evil. People will not start running wild stealing, raping, pillaging. People don't like to be hurt and will form pacts to guard and protect each other. There will be warring factions as there always was but I don't think there would be complete anarchy. The logical conclusion to a life where you can do anything that you think is OK is hedonism. To live just for pleasure. I'm sure many will ask what is wrong with that. Doing anything you want if it feels good. Tbombz (and this is not an attack) is a perfect example of that logical conclusion. A life of self indulgent hedonism. The only thing that prevents him for completely surrendering to a pure hedonistic life style is financial resources.
When you indulge the body you corrupt the soul.
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How exactly does an animal give consent? One bark or two?
Well, when a dog mounts you I would interpret that at the very least as implied consent.
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Well, when a dog mounts you I would interpret that at the very least as implied consent.
But I'm a top.
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Wow tbombz that last post clearly shows that you've been deeply mislead.
Using drugs isn't immoral cause it doesn't hurt anyone? Who do you think that money ultimately goes to when you buy those drugs? Peace loving hippies?
It's okay to have sex with an animal as long as its voluntarily participating? What?! I feel sorry for any animal that comes your way which happens to spark your fancy and doesn't tell you "no".
The Bible having historical and logical inaccuracies? There are none, and if you don't believe me research any questions you have by looking into some christian sources for a change and ask at this website for any nagging questions you're left with http://forums.catholic.com/
I hope you stay sincere in your search for truth..
At all times I am reading the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, over and over, the day I Finnish is also they day I start again, the Bible contains massive amounts of history from the days of summer, Arcadian, Mesopotamia, Uric,.Elam, Babylonia, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey, Israel, Arabia, Ethiopia, Persia, Greek, Spain, Rome,....the list is endless, and all of it's historical narratives on these nations have been verified to be extremely accurate.
Other portions of the Bible contain battles, warfare, famines, natural disasters, rise of empires and fall of nation,....along with poetry, wisdom in the form of proverbs, meanings to complex situations, prayers, Lamentations and cruelty.
Disturbances and chaos, people being burnt alive, heads getting cut off, thousands being massacred including woman and children, woman being raped, limbs getting ripped off, anything and everything you can think of is in the Bible including 1 man killing 69 of his brothers and a woman eating her infant cause she was hungry. What's my point?,.... that people make statements that the Bible has errors when they haven't even read it or even know of it's contents, well I have read it and I truly haven't come across an error and I have tried but there simply isn't one so if you can find one, bring it :)
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12 pages and no empirical proof of an afterlife. What a surprise.
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12 pages and no empirical proof of an afterlife. What a surprise.
The truth of the matter is this - The only people that know whether or not there is an afterlife are the dead. And they're not talking. ;D
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You have admitted and bragged about having sex with married women. And an immoral act does not necessarily have to effect someone else. Who hasn't seen a pic or video of some woman willing allowing herself to be penetrated by an animal?
This is you, making your own rules, being your own God.
Yes, you make a fair and very important point here and one I have struggled with myself. One of the very reasons I was an agnostic throughout my teens and most of my twenties. A value system outside of yourself is a necessary but an insufficient condition to a good and moral life.
Hurting someone without good reason is a good rule to go buy. The problem is that when that general rule is accountable to just you, you can always justify to yourself that you have a good reason to hurt someone. You can see it all around you. I speak from personal experience.
I know people talk about all the various religions throughout the world so which one is true? Which is the right one? For my part, I am concerned only with the religions that espoused ethical monotheism. The belief in one set of laws; one value system that applies to everybody. And most importantly -- one God. For example, murder (not killing) is always wrong. Wrong for everybody. It doesn't matter what your culture says or does. What your belief system is. The same set of rules applies to everybody. Ethical monotheism, one God and one ethical system, was first introduced into the world by Judaism. Before that most, if not all religions, were polytheistic based.
From that stand point there are only three major monotheistic religions in the world: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Because of the relationship between Judaism and Christianity -- both Bible based, one (Christianity) coming from the other (Judaism). I consider them, as value system, pretty much the same. The promote pretty much the same moral and ethical system, and rules of behavior. They differ only in their theology. So now I break down the choices between Judaism/Christianity and Islam. Again not so much as a theology but as a value system. How we should live? What kind of person we should be?
I do not believe that the value system promoted by Islam in general creates good people, a better society and a better world compared to Christianity/Judaism. Not 100%. There are many good Muslims many horrible Christians/Jews. Just in general. A society based on Judeo/Christian ethics I believe will always be better than a society based on Islam.
I don't believe that in Christianity you ever reach a point where you feel you have all the answers. Like life, Christianity is a continuous struggle. Why do good people suffer? If God created everything why is there evil in the world? Before he created the world he seem to be fine with his angels in Heaven. Why not stop there? Why not just create more angels? Why bother putting us through all this? All this suffering in the world.
I don't think we are supposed to know all the answers. It's easy to believe in something when you know all the answers. It's easy to believe in Jesus when he is standing there in front of you inviting you to stick your hand in his wounds. This is where faith comes in.
Jesus told Thomas, “Because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.” (John 20:29)
It might be interesting to note that Islam means to submit to God. Israel means to struggle with God.
All gods are man made.
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All gods are man made.
All men are made by God.
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All men are made by God.
puff piff paff 7 days later...
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puff piff paff 7 days later...
ok
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The truth of the matter is this - The only people that know whether or not there is an afterlife are the dead. And they're not talking. ;D
So where did the belief of afterlife come from?
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So where did the belief of afterlife come from?
No one wants to pass away...
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you might base your relationship off of exclusivity, making each other feel special through mutual exclusion of all other people. feeding each others egos by acting like there arent any other attractive people in the world.
there are other people who dont need to feel special. they view themselves as a member of society, equal to the rest. they dont need their partner to act like there are no other suitable partners in the world. they can enjoy watching their loved one enjoy another person and be happy for them, and even turned on by the sight.
if done in a healthy manner, open relationships are an indication of extreme spiritual development. not immorality.
;)
That's a bunch of horsehit...sorry...there is such a thing as the sanctity of marriage...ego has nothing to do with it.
that's the problem with people these days...nobody knows how to say "no"...there is such a thing as restraint
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12 pages and no empirical proof of an afterlife. What a surprise.
I died of boredom back on page 4 and I'd just like to say that this afterlife business isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's like an eternity in here!
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At all times I am reading the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, over and over, the day I Finnish is also they day I start again, the Bible contains massive amounts of history from the days of summer, Arcadian, Mesopotamia, Uric,.Elam, Babylonia, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey, Israel, Arabia, Ethiopia, Persia, Greek, Spain, Rome,....the list is endless, and all of it's historical narratives on these nations have been verified to be extremely accurate.
Other portions of the Bible contain battles, warfare, famines, natural disasters, rise of empires and fall of nation,....along with poetry, wisdom in the form of proverbs, meanings to complex situations, prayers, Lamentations and cruelty.
Disturbances and chaos, people being burnt alive, heads getting cut off, thousands being massacred including woman and children, woman being raped, limbs getting ripped off, anything and everything you can think of is in the Bible including 1 man killing 69 of his brothers and a woman eating her infant cause she was hungry. What's my point?,.... that people make statements that the Bible has errors when they haven't even read it or even know of it's contents, well I have read it and I truly haven't come across an error and I have tried but there simply isn't one so if you can find one, bring it :)
Errors and outright contradictions and yes I have read the bible from cover to cover
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
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Adultery is clearly define. Having sex with a married woman is adultery whether or not you have the husband's or the wife's permission.
If someone is taking a knife to your family and cutting throats you would not try to hurt him to save other lives as well as your own? Do you think it is moral to do nothing to save another person from harm even if it means harming someone else?
Bestiality is not immoral as long as it's consensual?
They are perfect examples of what happens when people make their own rules. You will always be able to justify immoral acts if it suits you.
And I am the one very misguided.
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
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In a life without God. In a life without immortality. Where there is no ultimate cosmic justice. The good are not rewarded, the bad are not punished. A Saint and a Sinner share the same cosmic fate. The concepts such as good and bad, right and wrong, simply becomes a matter of personal opinion. They become essentially meaningless. The logical conclusion is not necessarily evil. People will not start running wild stealing, raping, pillaging. People don't like to be hurt and will form pacts to guard and protect each other. There will be warring factions as there always was but I don't think there would be complete anarchy. The logical conclusion to a life where you can do anything that you think is OK is hedonism. To live just for pleasure. I'm sure many will ask what is wrong with that. Doing anything you want if it feels good. Tbombz (and this is not an attack) is a perfect example of that logical conclusion. A life of self indulgent hedonism. The only thing that prevents him for completely surrendering to a pure hedonistic life style is financial resources.
When you indulge the body you corrupt the soul.
the most pleasurable behavior is helping others.
;)
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.
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That's a bunch of horsehit...sorry...there is such a thing as the sanctity of marriage...ego has nothing to do with it.
that's the problem with people these days...nobody knows how to say "no"...there is such a thing as restraint
whats the point of prohibiting your spouse from enjoying other people?
its ego, wanting to feel special. wanting someone to treasure you above all others.
this is even biblicaly supported.
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
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Errors and outright contradictions and yes I have read the bible from cover to cover
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
In case you are interested:
Hard Sayings of the Bible
When Skeptics Ask: A Handbook on Christian Evidences
Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics (Baker Reference Library)
From God To Us: How We Got Our Bible
When Critics Ask: A Popular Handbook on Bible Difficulties
New International Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties
The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict
Exegetical Fallacies
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whats the point of prohibiting your spouse from enjoying other people?
its ego, wanting to feel special. wanting someone to treasure you above all others.
this is even biblicaly supported.
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Luke 20 is not a license to swing tbombz....here's the full chapter for context's sake:
The Resurrection and Marriage
27Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28“Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 29Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30The second 31and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32Finally, the woman died too. 33Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”
34Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’c 38He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
39Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!” 40And no one dared to ask him any more questions.
In addition, I've included a verse on marriage:
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
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Luke 20 is not a license to swing tbombz....In addition, I've included a verse on marriage:
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
i knew the context
why do you think jesus said we dont marry in the next life?
they which...obtain that world...neither marry, nor are given in marriage...for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God
because in heaven we do not isolate ourselves from the other souls(angels), we are an individual in a community. we dont pair up and seperate. we dont need to feel special or better than the rest. we are all equals and we intermingle at will, everyone together, a massive orgy of spirits.
the quote from hebrews doesnt come from jesus, it comes from men.
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whats the point of prohibiting your spouse from enjoying other people?
its ego, wanting to feel special. wanting someone to treasure you above all others.
this is even biblicaly supported.
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
I'm not going to go back and forth...I have my beliefs, you have yours.
Enjoy Hell ;D
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I'm not going to go back and forth...I have my beliefs, you have yours.
Enjoy Hell ;D
you want to feel special. you even said you would 'tear the limbs off a man who touched your woman". why ? because he would be actualizing your fear that another is able to bring pleasure to a woman who has experienced you.. making you, not special, not superior to others, but just one of MANY.
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i knew the context
why do you think jesus said we dont marry in the next life?
they which...obtain that world...neither marry, nor are given in marriage...for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God
because in heaven we do not isolate ourselves from the other souls(angels), we are an individual in a community. we dont pair up and seperate. we dont need to feel special or better than the rest. we are all equals and we intermingle at will, everyone together, a massive orgy of spirits.
the quote from hebrews doesnt come from jesus, it comes from men.
I have no doubt you knew the context, but I wanted to make sure others got it as well.
tbombz, you often have a twisted way of viewing scripture to suit your purposes....I've read others examples of this from you, but didn't comment (ex: the idea that drug use is fine scripturally because the ten commandments are reconciled by Romans 13:9...something to that effect). For those that belief, the bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God. Certainly the quotes from Christ are precious, but the remainder inspired by God written by man is also of God.
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I have no doubt you knew the context, but I wanted to make sure others got it as well.
tbombz, you often have a twisted way of viewing scripture to suit your purposes....I've read others examples of this from you, but didn't comment (ex: the idea that drug use is fine scripturally because the ten commandments are reconciled by Romans 13:9...something to that effect). For those that belief, the bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God. Certainly the quotes from Christ are precious, but the remainder inspired by God written by man is also of God.
because i dont believe in the bible. i use quotes from it to illustrate certain points when i feel doing so will be beneficial to the listener. certainly there are many wise things inside its pages. for example just about everything jesus supposedly said. the rest of the bible, the stuff not in red print, is much more prone to error. the idea of a vengeful god, the story of creation, the morals espoused.. all inaccurate for the most part.
morality is defined by how your behavior affects others. if you intentionally do something knowing that it might hurt another being then you have committed a sin. if you intentionally do something knowing it will benefit another, then you have done a good deed. any actions that fall outside of those two paramters are not immoral, not worthy of praise, but just ARE.
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you want to feel special. you even said you would 'tear the limbs off a man who touched your woman". why ? because he would be actualizing your fear that another is able to bring pleasure to a woman who has experienced you.. making you, not special, not superior to others, but just one of MANY.
I have no illusions about being "special" and one of MANY...my girl has a kid for christ's sake...she's no virgin...I'm fine with it. I'm sure I'm not the first man to ever have good sex with her...that's delusional and egocentric , and something a 16 year old worries about.
Of course I want to feel special, and i am..and so is she to me...or else we wouldn't be together. and that's right, put your hands on my woman and i will fuck your shit up quick. 8)
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because i dont believe in the bible. i use quotes from it to illustrate certain points when i feel doing so will be beneficial to the listener. certainly there are many wise things inside its pages. for example just about everything jesus supposedly said. the rest of the bible, the stuff not in red print, is much more prone to error. the idea of a vengeful god, the story of creation, the morals espoused.. all inaccurate for the most part.
morality is defined by how your behavior affects others. if you intentionally do something knowing that it might hurt another being then you have committed a sin. if you intentionally do something knowing it will benefit another, then you have done a good deed. any actions that fall outside of those two paramters are not immoral, not worthy of praise, but just ARE.
Gonna be real honest here, your first sentence cleared up all my confusion.
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I have no illusions about being "special" and one of MANY...my girl has a kid for christ's sake...she's no virgin...I'm fine with it. I'm sure I'm not the first man to ever have good sex with her...that's delusional and egocentric , and something a 16 year old worries about.
Of course I want to feel special, and i am..and so is she to me...or else we wouldn't be together. and that's right, put your hands on my woman and i will fuck your shit up quick. 8)
i want to feel special too. open relationships arent for me, though at one time i wanted it. my faith in an afterlife isnt strong enough that i am willing to forgo earthly pleasures of the ego. though i strive to accept my equality with others, accept that im not special, and be humble in all endeavours.
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Gonna be real honest here, your first sentence cleared up all my confusion.
and what about the second paragraph
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Tbombz... do you actually realize some of the things you say? I doubt Groink even read that post , I would of stopped at the first word and rolled my eyes. Can you honestly tell me that you can sit back and watch another man with his hands on your girl or with another guy's dick up her ass? Stop trying to be " witty" all the time, your a cool intelligent guy but You need fucking help dude. there is a time where things are just not even up for debate, and you trying to prove someone wrong on it only makes you look like a smartass trying to show people up, just being straight as to why I think you get alot of enemies on here.
look I dont care if its my ego, all I know is a girl I care about is having sexual relationships with another dude it pisses me off and fucking hurts. I dont need an explanation, I dont want to know why or care that matter cause its just the way it is. try to be a "normal guy" for once
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look I dont care if its my ego, all I know is a girl I care about is having sexual relationships with another dude it pisses me off and fucking hurts.
im only arguing that cuckoldry and open relationships are not immoral; and pointing out that the reason why people have difficulties with accepting that is because of a strong emotional reaction driven by their ego.
if people respond negatively to that bit of information, which should be enlightening, then its due to their ignorance; and not a fault of my own. in time they may look back on my words and realize the wisdom therein. no thanks will be needed.
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and what about the second paragraph
I read every word of your post. I don't think you're a bad man tbombz LOL and I'm not gonna pass any judgement on you either. If you don't belief in Christ, if you don't belief the bible is true I get that, but my hope is that in time your heart can be reconciled with it's full contents.
Too many read the bible "cover to cover" with a purely clinical approach looking to identify flaws and/or to become so well versed in scripture that they're able to throw Christians off their game (and there is the rub....the game). Their desire to read the bible has nothing to do with trying to undestand God or find answers, they're either playing a game or looking for loopholes, inconsistences....anythi ng to validate their own purposes, invalidate Christ and remove accountablility for their own actions past, present and future. Now, am I suggesting you're playing a game with believers or that your motives are just as I stated? No. Am I suggesting that all other nonbelievers function in the capacity that I just outlined? Absolutely not. Unfortunately many do and some spend their entire lives in the pursuit of invalidating Christ never once humbling themselves and opening their hearts fully in a genuine attempt to understand "what all the religious fuss is about". It's the love of God I want others to experience. Many will scoff and ridicule me...so be it.
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Tbombz... do you actually realize some of the things you say? I doubt Groink even read that post , I would of stopped at the first word and rolled my eyes. Can you honestly tell me that you can sit back and watch another man with his hands on your girl or with another guy's dick up her ass? Stop trying to be " witty" all the time, your a cool intelligent guy but You need fucking help dude. there is a time where things are just not even up for debate, and you trying to prove someone wrong on it only makes you look like a smartass trying to show people up, just being straight as to why I think you get alot of enemies on here.
look I dont care if its my ego, all I know is a girl I care about is having sexual relationships with another dude it pisses me off and fucking hurts. I dont need an explanation, I dont want to know why or care that matter cause its just the way it is. try to be a "normal guy" for once
exactly...he's trying to paint me as some weak insecure guy, because i don't want other men fucking my woman....just stop already ::)
The people who are into that stuff, and i know quite a few...are all fucked up people in fucked up relationships. it's really that simple.
and i think the general consensus here on GB is Taylor is a pretty fucked up guy as well
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when i have read the bible i did so looking for wisdom and i found much of it in its pages. but i also found misguided ideologies and stories that go against my intuition. i found logical inconsistancies and historical inaccuracies. i think the men who wrote the bible were very wise for the most part and most of what they wrote is very valuable. but passing it off as the word of god was wrong, because it isnt. its my belief god gives every man equal access to his being.. those ancient men were no more certain of his existence and true nature than any of us are today. and that refutes the idea of the bible as the word of god.
morality is defined by how your behavior affects others. if you intentionally do something knowing that it might hurt another being then you have committed a sin. if you intentionally do something knowing it will benefit another, then you have done a good deed. any actions that fall outside of those two paramters are not immoral, not worthy of praise, but just ARE.
^^^ this, i think, is indisputable. i was wondering about your opinion on why you think drugs, sex, and other bheaviors which do not fall under 'immoral' in the above description of the term are indeed immoral... save referance to the bible.
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when i have read the bible i did so looking for wisdom and i found much of it in its pages. but i also found misguided ideologies and stories that go against my intuition. i found logical inconsistancies and historical inaccuracies. i think the men who wrote the bible were very wise for the most part and most of what they wrote is very valuable. but passing it off as the word of god was wrong, because it isnt. its my belief god gives every man equal access to his being.. those ancient men were no more certain of his existence and true nature than any of us are today. and that refutes the idea of the bible as the word of god.
morality is defined by how your behavior affects others. if you intentionally do something knowing that it might hurt another being then you have committed a sin. if you intentionally do something knowing it will benefit another, then you have done a good deed. any actions that fall outside of those two paramters are not immoral, not worthy of praise, but just ARE.
^^^ this, i think, is indisputable. i was wondering about your opinion on why you think drugs, sex, and other bheaviors which do not fall under 'immoral' in the above description of the term are indeed immoral... save referance to the bible.
My beliefs aren't rooted in the world, they're rooted in God and his divine word. Me, I'd rather see the world saved and refer to the bible.
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My beliefs aren't rooted in the world, they're rooted in God and his divine word. Me, I'd rather see the world saved and refer to the bible.
That's one of the main problems I have with religious people , they are like vegetarians they just can't be happy with their choice they now have to push it onto everyone else.
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My beliefs aren't rooted in the world, they're rooted in God and his divine word. Me, I'd rather see the world saved and refer to the bible.
so you dont have any reason to believe except that you read it in a book. you dont have any logical basis for your beliefs except "somebody told me so". :-\ see, i think god exists, i think every human has immortal life. but i think these things because i have thought about the subject with an analytical, critical mind and came to conclusions after long contemplation. not because some story book says so. i know right and wrong to be based on how behavior affects other people, not based on arbitrary guidelines that prohibit pleasure.
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That's one of the main problems I have with religious people , they are like vegetarians they just can't be happy with their choice they now have to push it onto everyone else.
How have I pushed you ND? I express what I belief, do my best to defend what I belief, I encourage others, I pray for others and I'm willing to share with others that have interest. I do that while being insulted and ridiculed routinely.
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How have I pushed you ND? I express what I belief, do my best to defend what I belief, I encourage others, I pray for others and I'm willing to share with others that have interest. I do that while being insulted and ridiculed routinely.
Not you personally but your religion it's self , they want to dictate and controls others lives
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so you dont have any reason to believe except that you read it in a book. you dont have any logical basis for your beliefs except "somebody told me so". :-\ see, i think god exists, i think every human has immortal life. but i think these things because i have thought about the subject with an analytical, critical mind and came to conclusions after long contemplation. not because some story book says so. i know right and wrong to be based on how behavior affects other people, not based on arbitrary guidelines that prohibit pleasure.
Let's be real clear tbombz, those are your words not mine....the first two sentences in particular. My beliefs and experiences go far deeper than anything suggested here. I've experienced God in my life before I ever cracked open the good book.....he rescued me in a time of deepest despair and changed me completely. I'm just now in my life gaining the biblical knowledge I never had previously, but my faith was solidified in a moment of humility and open-hearted surrender to my Lord and Savior. The Holy Spirit washed over me like a flood and my heart was changed forever and I hadn't read a word of the NT on my own.
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Not you personally but your religion it's self , they want to dictate and controls others lives
Granted, there are many nominal believers in the church and other genuine believers that act inappropriately, but they also make up a small percent of population of believers. Unfortunately, others gravitate to that small population and judge the whole according to that standard.
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Let's be real clear tbombz, those are your words not mine....the first two sentences in particular. My beliefs and experiences go far deeper than anything suggested here. I've experienced God in my life before I ever cracked open the good book.....he rescued me in a time of deepest despair and changed me completely. I'm just now in my life gaining the biblical knowledge I never had previously, but my faith was solidified in a moment of humility and open-hearted surrender to my Lord and Savior. The Holy Spirit washed over me like a flood and my heart was changed forever and I hadn't read a word of the NT on my own.
but you dont think about whats right and wrong, you just go by what the bible says without question
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so you dont have any reason to believe except that you read it in a book. you dont have any logical basis for your beliefs except "somebody told me so". :-\ see, i think god exists, i think every human has immortal life. but i think these things because i have thought about the subject with an analytical, critical mind and came to conclusions after long contemplation. not because some story book says so. i know right and wrong to be based on how behavior affects other people, not based on arbitrary guidelines that prohibit pleasure.
You are a heathen, and will burn in hell ;D
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but you dont think about whats right and wrong, you just go by what the bible says without question
Again, being real clear here, those are your words not mine. I also belief you're smarter than that. When confronted or confused by issues I study the bible, I read others believeres perspectives, but the most important thing I do is take the matter to the source in prayer. Do I belief in the word of God because of my relationship with God and my salvation in Christ? You bet. That last aspect is so crucial and lost on so many.
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8)
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:)
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12 pages and no empirical proof of an afterlife. What a surprise.
What did you expect my good Dr? I always try to make it crystal clear that we are talking matters of faith. Neither the existence or nonexistence of a God can be proved.
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Dying is shitty, but I think it is was it is. Nothingness.
Afterlife crap is for people who have massive ego's who think they deserve more than other people, like the crazy notion of living in heaven for eternity with god like a god.
Pathetic crap. Just as some mention, it's just as it was before you were born. NOTHING!
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All gods are man made.
Perhaps, but there is a big difference if that God is yourself.
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Do I belief in the word of God because of my relationship with God and my salvation in Christ? You bet. That last aspect is so crucial and lost on so many.
You believe in the word of god, but have you actually ever cared to digest what you are reading? The christian god is a genocidal murderer who is actually jealous and has a temper if humans don't worship him. Now, does that behavior sound like a god, or a demented mad man like Hitler or Saddam?
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You believe in the word of god, but have you actually ever cared to digest what you are reading? The christian god is a genocidal murderer who is actually jealous and has a temper if humans don't worship him. Now, does that behavior sound like a god, or a demented mad man like Hitler or Saddam?
Agreed. The christian god is a fucking psychopath.
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You believe in the word of god, but have you actually ever cared to digest what you are reading? The christian god is a genocidal murderer who is actually jealous and has a temper if humans don't worship him. Now, does that behavior sound like a god, or a demented mad man like Hitler or Saddam?
That behavior sounds like a mad man like Hitler or Saddam.
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That behavior sounds like a mad man like Hitler or Saddam.
I'm sure you know it's all in the Old Testament :-\
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I'm sure you know it's all in the Old Testament :-\
Yes, read every word of it. Read other resources on it. Read apologetic viewpoints on it. Asked questions about it. Studied it online. Asked other believers about it.
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I'm sure you know it's all in the Old Testament :-\
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Agreed. The christian god is a fucking psychopath.
Yet people follow it, based on a lack of reading, or a natural ability to turn the evil behind their god into some wonderful thing. He supposedly drowned an entire planet, and THAT is a good thing? Like they can't even fathom that a god who could do anything, wouldn't need to drown every living thing, when he could just alter the path slightly to correct HIS mistakes? ::)
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I'm sure you know it's all in the Old Testament :-\
Same god isn't it? ;)
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Same god isn't it? ;)
Yeah and the problem is most believers are okay with that :-\
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Yeah and the problem is most believers are okay with that :-\
That's what I don't understand. If a pedophile with 10 previous convictions moved next door to a christian, would they be so into faith that this person was rehabilitated that they would let him babysit their kids nightly? Yet some being that creates evil, acts evil, and causes people to be evil towards each other is just fine with them. You know, because he was only evil in a past chapter, or book. :P
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Errors and outright contradictions and yes I have read the bible from cover to cover
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
That website is so biased and doesn't contain any conradictions whatsoever, most of the suppose contradictions they are stateing are based on the assumptions of evolution being 100% accurate and others that are misinterpretations of the Bible for example in one placed it's talks about the amount of watere that has to come down in rainfall exceed 6 inches per hour for forty days in order to reach height of the tallest mountains, well no not 6 inches, cause the majority of the flood did not occur on account of rainfall but rather the fountains of the great deep where bropken and water gushed out, obviouly he would have not thought that to be a contradiction if he had read his Bible.
And lol at you haveing read the Bible ::).................ya, takes a couple hundred hours for the fastest reader and someone who thinks all this is fairytale is going to take the time to read it
ok answere the following that has been reapeted in the Bible a gazzillion time througout. what Biblical character is the father of Ethiopia, and who is the Biblical father of the Egyptians, What Biblical country is now saudi Arabia, what Biblical country is Jordan, who is the father of Jordan, give me the names of the nations that were in power during the time Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, David, Hezikiah.
Who is the first king in Israel (google will probably not help you here cause its a trick question)
Trust me you never read the Bible, you ain't fooling anyone and if you did and cant answere these questions off the top of your head then it's irrelevent that you did read it cause you where day dreaming. The Bible has no errors and I challange you to produce some and no don't throw me a stupid website saying "see error" be specific in a particular case, oh and of course you are up to the challange, this is getbig ;D
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That website is so biased and doesn't contain any conradictions whatsoever, most of the suppose contradictions they are stateing are based on the assumptions of evolution being 100% accurate and others that are misinterpretations of the Bible for example in one placed it's talks about the amount of watere that has to come down in rainfall exceed 6 inches per hour for forty days in order to reach height of the tallest mountains, well no not 6 inches, cause the majority of the flood did not occur on account of rainfall but rather the fountains of the great deep where bropken and water gushed out, obviouly he would have not thought that to be a contradiction if he had read his Bible.
And lol at you haveing read the Bible ::).................ya, takes a couple hundred hours for the fastest reader and someone who thinks all this is fairytale is going to take the time to read it
ok answere the following that has been reapeted in the Bible a gazzillion time througout. what Biblical character is the father of Ethiopia, and who is the Biblical father of the Egyptians, What Biblical country is now saudi Arabia, what Biblical country is Jordan, who is the father of Jordan, give me the names of the nations that were in power during the time Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, David, Hezikiah.
Who is the first king in Israel (google will probably not help you here cause its a trick question)
Trust me you never read the Bible, you ain't fooling anyone and if you did and cant answere these questions off the top of your head then it's irrelevent that you did read it cause you where day dreaming. The Bible has no errors and I challange you to produce some and no don't throw me a stupid website saying "see error" be specific in a particular case, oh and of course you are up to the challange, this is getbig ;D
You asked for errors and contradictions , you got them ALL contained within the bible itself ;) that site is biased , that site is using your own book against you and you don't like it.
I have read the bible years ago and couldn't recall anything off the top of my head , I couldn't recall a lot of books off the top of my head , I don't dedicate my life to that book for a very good reason , it's nonsense.
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You asked for errors and contradictions , you got them ALL contained within the bible itself ;) that site is biased , that site is using your own book against you and you don't like it. I have read the bible years ago and couldn't recall anything off the top of my head , I couldn't recall a lot of books off the top of my head , I don't dedicate my life to that book for a very good reason , it's nonsense.
No no no, its using evolution against it and in a few cases it's not but very vague and minor points that are easily refutable, oh if you want me to start, I could 1 by 1 but I was under the impression you may yourself give a detailed error, considering your post and previous thread if anyone can bring a good argument would be you ;)
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No no no, its using evolution against it and in a few cases it's not but very vague and minor points that are easily refutable, oh if you want me to start, I could 1 by 1 but I was under the impression you may yourself give a detailed error, considering your post and previous thread if anyone can bring a good argument would be you ;)
You don't believe in evolution?
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You believe in the word of god, but have you actually ever cared to digest what you are reading? The christian god is a genocidal murderer who is actually jealous and has a temper if humans don't worship him. Now, does that behavior sound like a god, or a demented mad man like Hitler or Saddam?
The same can be said for you.
Where are you from and what do you believe?
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You don't believe in evolution?
I will be fair with you and say no and that I think it's a silly theory, however a small portion of the theory has to do with Micro-evolution, which I obviously concur with, no problem there, but Macro-evolution is a bunch of horse shit, and please don't say lots and lots of micro-evolution equals Macro cause it doesn't,Macro-evolution has never been observed in the history of man-kind, as far as further details of evoltution are concerned such as the big bang, it's all speculations and assumptions, theories, nothing more
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I will be fair with you and say no and that I think it's a silly theory, however a small portion of the theory has to do with Micro-evolution, which I obviously concur with, no problem there, but Macro-evolution is a bunch of horse shit, and please don't say lots and lots of micro-evolution equals Macro cause it doesn't,Macro-evolution has never been observed in the history of man-kind, as far as further details of evoltution are concerned such as the big bang, it's all speculations and assumptions, theories, nothing more
For you to say evolution is a silly theory and believe the bible is without errors or contradictions , tells me all I need to know. ;D
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For you to say evolution is a silly theory and believe the bible is without errors or contradictions , tells me all I need to know. ;D
OKOKOK you win 8)
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OKOKOK you win 8)
;D
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For you to say evolution is a silly theory and believe the bible is without errors or contradictions , tells me all I need to know. ;D
If evolution is true it means there's no difference between you, a dog, a frog, a goat, an ant. And that only the strongest survives and that good and evil dont exist.
Basically that we re just animals like other animal species. It means anyone could kill you if he wanted to. Spirituality, religion, everything that allowed us to create our civilizations made everything you see and do possible.
Evolution is just a theory just like many others -the fact that recently scientists who found einstein 's theory might be wrong should send you a warning- , but people who act badly disapear and dont reproduce, gay, men who abandon their families, their ofssprings dont reproduce , only faithful people still reproduce. Because they follow God's principles. Does It means that those who survive and have faith... are selected by evolution to survive when atheists disapear abusing addictions or/and not willing to reproduce anymore?
How do you explain that, genius. What theory is the most real to you? Looks like natural selection is explained in the bible, but how would you know, youd didnt even read it, like so many of the cynical self hating atheists of nowadays who were brainwashed by their own parents who had regrets giving birth to them.
Fact is we dont know for sure why we have a different, more evolved brain than other animal species on earth, that allow us to feel happiness. Why we can learn from the past and project ourselves in the future. Evolution, natural selection absolutely do not explain anything seriously, and even scientists say it. Also as alrdy mentionned most members of the scientist community have a deep christian heritage , upbringings and education. Religious families create the most important and stable individuals in our societies, our societies that are entirely based on christiannity in the first place.
Churches are antennas linked to god, the "man in the sky", our "father in the sky". Why our father? why "in the sky" ? Because he s originally the father of the whole mankind, he either terraformed earth/genetically engeenered us or both, like he (or They) engeenered all other lifeforms.
Can i prove it's the truth? No. Can you prove it isnt the truth? No, neither can you.
Read the Bible. Everything s in there. Extra terestrial life forms only seen by moise and some other rare individuals at some point in human existence went on earth and gave us the holy writings we need to give a meaning to our life and be happy. They re our creators, and they gave us our own user's guide. They "resetted" mankind several times because we werent going the way they wanted us to evolve considering they are the ones who programmed us originally.
The "glory of God" as depicted in the bible is a gigantic spaceship, his most incredible creation, his "glory", and there may be other creators like him living in it, and they go thru space, terraform planets and create life. They might have ennemies, who knows.
We do not know what God looks like , only moise and very few selected ones have seen him. When moise spent time with God in his spaceship, when he came back to his people he had a glowy face, rejuvenated, younger skin that suprised his people and he had to cover it for some time. These people are said to have lived for 120 to 140 years.
You guys think you know it all... you know nothing, and the very few things you know might well be wrong. Reality often exceeds fiction.
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You asked for errors and contradictions , you got them ALL contained within the bible itself ;) that site is biased , that site is using your own book against you and you don't like it.
I have read the bible years ago and couldn't recall anything off the top of my head , I couldn't recall a lot of books off the top of my head , I don't dedicate my life to that book for a very good reason , it's nonsense.
That's what I mean about them not actually READING what they are reading. Most christians go to church, hear some sermon, and try to get some message out of it, which is about the same as a fortune cookie can offer. Then, when you show them how screwed up their belief is, EVEN THOUGH you get all the information DIRECTLY FROM THE BIBLE, it's somehow YOU that misinterprets the EXACT WORDING of the bible. ::)
I guess some people can't deal with the reality of life, so they make their own.
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If evolution is true it means there's no difference between you, a dog, a frog, a goat, an ant. And that only the strongest survives and that good and evil dont exists.
Basically that we re just animals like other animal species.
It is just a theory, but people who act badly disapear and dont reproduce, gay, men who abandon their families, their ofssprings dont reproduce , only faithful people still reproduce. Because they follow God's principles. It means that those who survive and have faith... are selected by evolution to survive when atheists disapear abusing addictions or/and not willing to reproduce anymore.
How do you explain that, genius. What theory is the most real to you? Looks like natural selection is explained in the bible.
Fact is we dont know for sure why we have a different, more evolved than other animal species on earth, that allow us to feel happiness. Why we can learn from the past and project ourselves in the future. Evolution, natural selection absolutely do not explain anything seriously, and even scientists say it. Also as alrdy mentionned most of scientists have a deep christian heritage , upbringings and education. Religious families create the most important and stable individuals in our societies, our societies that are entirely based on christiannity in the first place.
Churches are antennas linked to god, the "man in the sky", our "father in the sky". Why our father? Because he s originally the father of the whole mankind, he either terraformed earth/genetically engeenered us or both, like he (or They) engeenered us.
Read the Bible. Everything s in there. Extra terestrial life forms only seen by moise and some other rare individuals at some point in human existence went on earth and gave us the holy writings we need to give a meaning to our life and be happy. They re our creators, and they gave us our own user's guide.
The "glory of God" as depicted in the bible is a gigantic spaceship, its most incredible creation, and there may be other creators like him living in it, and they go thru space, terraform planets and create life.
We do not know what God looks like , only moise and very few selected ones have seen him. When moise spent time with God in his spaceship, when he came back to his people he had a glowy face, rejuvenated, younger skin that suprised his people and he had to cover it for some time. These people are said to have lived for 120 to 140 years.
You guys think you know it all... you know nothing, and the very few things you know might well be wrong. Reality often exceeds fiction.
No , YOU think that we think we know it all , and ironically the bible claims to know it all so don't be a hypocrite , I don't know it all not in the least , Science will be the first to admit it doesn't know it all , the Bible claims to know it all and we're all supposed to take it on faith ::) you do that I need more and the Bible leaves a LOT to be desired
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The same can be said for you.
Where are you from and what do you believe?
I was spoonfed this crap from an early age. Science showing FACTS through repeatable methods proved to me that the earth was older than a few thousand years. Somehow, that didn't mesh well with religion class mentioning a young earth. I don't believe in anything that sounds like fairytales when science shows as clear a picture as we can get. Science is progressive, a 2000 year old book of stories that never changes is just that, a 2000 year old book of stories. They aren't even good either as far as moral content. You have to bend Noah's ark to imagine god is a loving god.
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That's what I mean about them not actually READING what they are reading. Most christians go to church, hear some sermon, and try to get some message out of it, which is about the same as a fortune cookie can offer. Then, when you show them how screwed up their belief is, EVEN THOUGH you get all the information DIRECTLY FROM THE BIBLE, it's somehow YOU that misinterprets the EXACT WORDING of the bible. ::)
I guess some people can't deal with the reality of life, so they make their own.
They go to hear a feel good sermon and needless to say NOT one of these preachers are gonna preach about how to beat your slaves , or the incest , rape , and murder or baby killings etc that's all contained within the Greatest story ever told
they cherry-pick the good parts , omit the bad and tell you how to live your life ::)
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If evolution is true it means there's no difference between you, a dog, a frog, a goat, an ant. And that only the strongest survives and that good and evil dont exist.
Basically that we re just animals like other animal species. It means anyone could kill you if he wanted to. Spirituality, religion, everything that allowed us to create our civilizations made everything you see and do possible.
Evolution is just a theory just like many others -the fact that recently scientists who found einstein 's theory might be wrong should send you a warning- , but people who act badly disapear and dont reproduce, gay, men who abandon their families, their ofssprings dont reproduce , only faithful people still reproduce. Because they follow God's principles. Does It means that those who survive and have faith... are selected by evolution to survive when atheists disapear abusing addictions or/and not willing to reproduce anymore?
How do you explain that, genius. What theory is the most real to you? Looks like natural selection is explained in the bible, but how would you know, youd didnt even read it, like so many of the cynical self hating atheists of nowadays who were brainwashed by their own parents who had regrets giving birth to them.
Fact is we dont know for sure why we have a different, more evolved brain than other animal species on earth, that allow us to feel happiness. Why we can learn from the past and project ourselves in the future. Evolution, natural selection absolutely do not explain anything seriously, and even scientists say it. Also as alrdy mentionned most members of the scientist community have a deep christian heritage , upbringings and education. Religious families create the most important and stable individuals in our societies, our societies that are entirely based on christiannity in the first place.
Churches are antennas linked to god, the "man in the sky", our "father in the sky". Why our father? why "in the sky" ? Because he s originally the father of the whole mankind, he either terraformed earth/genetically engeenered us or both, like he (or They) engeenered all other lifeforms.
Can i prove it's the truth? No. Can you prove it isnt the truth? No, neither can you.
Read the Bible. Everything s in there. Extra terestrial life forms only seen by moise and some other rare individuals at some point in human existence went on earth and gave us the holy writings we need to give a meaning to our life and be happy. They re our creators, and they gave us our own user's guide.
The "glory of God" as depicted in the bible is a gigantic spaceship, its most incredible creation, and there may be other creators like him living in it, and they go thru space, terraform planets and create life.
We do not know what God looks like , only moise and very few selected ones have seen him. When moise spent time with God in his spaceship, when he came back to his people he had a glowy face, rejuvenated, younger skin that suprised his people and he had to cover it for some time. These people are said to have lived for 120 to 140 years.
You guys think you know it all... you know nothing, and the very few things you know might well be wrong. Reality often exceeds fiction.
::) ::)
Oh brother, this sounds like born again crap.
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::) ::)
Oh brother, this sounds like born again crap.
Why are you so hostile about this topic? You don't believe. Fine. I am a believer. Fine. I can't recall a single religious thread in which insults aren't slung back and forth. Every comment from believers and nonbelievers alike is laced with venom. I don't understand it.
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That's what I mean about them not actually READING what they are reading. Most christians go to church, hear some sermon, and try to get some message out of it, which is about the same as a fortune cookie can offer. Then, when you show them how screwed up their belief is, EVEN THOUGH you get all the information DIRECTLY FROM THE BIBLE, it's somehow YOU that misinterprets the EXACT WORDING of the bible. ::)
I guess some people can't deal with the reality of life, so they make their own.
Exact oppisite is true. People copy and paste from the Bibles million words and come up with there own ideas. The fact is anyone, and I mean anyone thats has read the Bible would be in awe at it's complexity and it's sheer chronological perfection, mindblowingly artistic piece of work hardly something that an oldman at a camp fire would jot down on a clay tablet.
furthemore, the most important characters in ancient civilization backed up by every known Archaeological documentation ever found. The Biblical historical nerratives has millions of sources from all over confirming its accuracy. Egyptin Hieroglyphs, Canuiform Tablets from Summer, the document and manuscripts found in the Ashurbanapal library, Historical information found on Sargon, Tiglath -Pilser, Nebudchadnezzer, Cyrus, xerxes, darius, the list is endless. hardly a book you would call silly
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Exact oppisite is true. People copy and paste from the Bibles million words and come up with there own ideas. The fact is anyone, and I mean anyone thats has read the Bible would be in awe at it's complexity and it's sheer chronological perfection, mindblowingly artistic piece of work hardly something that an oldman at a camp fire would jot down on a clay tablet.
furthemore, the most important characters in ancient civilization backed up by every known Archaeological documentation ever found. The Biblical historical nerratives has millions of sources from all over confirming its accuracy. Egyptin Hieroglyphs, Canuiform Tablets from Summer, the document and manuscripts found in the Ashurbanapal library, Historical information found on Sargon, Tiglath -Pilser, Nebudchadnezzer, Cyrus, xerxes, darius, the list is endless. hardly a book you would call silly
lol chronological perfection ;D boy you fell hard didn't you?
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lol chronological perfection ;D boy you fell hard didn't you?
Cut the sarcasm, clearly anyone that has studied ancient history, like myself knows that any known civiliaztion stems from the Bible, the wars and politics that has shaped and molded this world stems from the Bible.
All accounts of the first empire of ancient summer, where the oldest language on the planet was written on cuneiform tablet is the Biblical land of Shinar and the first general to mount an army of 5000 man (Sargon of Accad is the Biblical Nimrod, who`s other Biblical name is Amraphel. The word Egypt means Mizraim, the Biblical name of one of Ham`s sons who is Noah`s son, the name Ethiopia has been associated with Cush another one of Ham`s sons. In Ancient writings all over the world the term Semite arises, pure coincidence or are they tribes that scattered all over from the decentents of Shem who is another of Noah`son, man we even use the term term Semitic and anti-semitism today. Not bad for a book of fairytales right ::)
And please don`t give me an`- ňh brother, you guys are just so predictable. :P
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Cut the sarcasm, clearly anyone that has studied ancient history, like myself knows that any known civiliaztion stems from the Bible, the wars and politics that has shaped and molded this world stems from the Bible.
All accounts of the first empire of ancient summer, where the oldest language on the planet was written on cuneiform tablet is the Biblical land of Shinar and the first general to mount an army of 5000 man (Sargon of Accad is the Biblical Nimrod, who`s other Biblical name is Amraphel. The word Egypt means Mizraim, the Biblical name of one of Ham`s sons who is Noah`s son, the name Ethiopia has been associated with Cush another one of Ham`s sons. In Ancient writings all over the world the term Semite arises, pure coincidence or are they tribes that scattered all over from the decentents of Shem who is another of Noah`son, man we even use the term term Semitic and anti-semitism today. Not bad for a book of fairytales right ::)
And please don`t give me an`- ňh brother, you guys are just so predictable. :P
No doubts Judaism and Christianity have shaped the world ( for better or for worse ) but it doesn't make them true , just because there is a history doesn't make the original story infallible.
it all hinges on belief .
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No doubts Judaism and Christianity have shaped the world ( for better or for worse ) but it doesn't make them true , just because there is a history doesn't make the original story infallible.
it all hinges on belief .
Well, obviously, I couldn`t agree more, that you can only take by faith, but my point is simple, A book of high importance and prestige and historical significents cannot be dismissed as a silly book, even you have to agree with that, if not withdraw your post above.
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Well, obviously, I couldn`t agree more, that you can only take by faith, but my point is simple, A book of high importance and prestige and historical significents cannot be dismissed as a silly book, even you have to agree with that, if not withdraw your post above.
“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”
― Isaac Asimov
this sums up my feelings on the book ;D
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So where did the belief of afterlife come from?
I have a good friend that is Christian and he said it this way - Not everyone has "faith", but there is always hope. The hope to see loved ones again can be just as strong as any faith in God and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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Those who have children aged 12 and above ask them this: If they had to pick one quality that you, as a parent, most want them to be or have which one do they think you most want for them: To be Rich, Intelligent, Good, Famous or Happy.
Then ask yourself of those qualities what do you really most want for your children.
If your parents are still alive ask them what they would want most for you.
What do you want for yourself?
And are you religious? Are your parents religious? Were you raised with religion? Do you raise your kids with religion?
As I mentioned before, often times it's not about right and wrong and trying to win an argument or debate but about clarity. Being crystal clear about what we are discussing and it's consequences.
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Question specifically for Tbombz: On average, in general, do you believe that being religious, that having religion, a belief that one will be held accountable for their sins; will make for better people then if they had no such beliefs whatsoever? That they will not be held accountable for their behavior after they die?
Also, I posed a scenario and question for you that got lost in the shuffle. I'd be interested in your response.
Let me ask you a simple question and I have to trust you on your honor to be honest. It's not a trick question but sometimes a discussion doesn't always have to be about who is right and who is wrong. Who wins and who loses. But about clarity. Being clear as to each other's position and perhaps coming to a mutual understanding rather than agreement.
Say you were in a bad part of town very late at night alone walking across a deserted dark parking lot to get your car. Now coming towards you is about a half dozen young adult males (late teens early twenties) of various ethnic origins. Would a caution light go off in you? Doesn't have to be fear or great alarm but sort of a code yellow. That you better be a little bit more on your toes then if they weren't there coming towards you. That if you were just alone. If so, why? If not, why not?
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Question specifically for Tbombz: On average, in general, do you believe that being religious, that having religion, a belief that one will be held accountable for their sins; will make for better people then if they had no such beliefs whatsoever? That they will not be held accountable for their behavior after they die?
Also, I posed a scenario and question for you that got lost in the shuffle. I'd be interested in your response.
Everyone and there brother will say that it wouldn't make a difference, but what people forget is that this generation is the only civilized generation per se, so those who do not believe in God as a whole can act just as positive as those who do, but only in this generation... let me explain why in a sec.
Now you have the smart asses often compare Christians from medevil days to nonbelievers of our modern era and come to the conclusion that the Christians of yesteryear where barbaric in nature and that modern day nonbelievers are saints in comparison but anyone who has kept tract of all the political agendas throughout history will know that as barbaric as Christans where back then they were leading and paving the way to reasoning, the real barbaric behaviour and raw cruelty came from nations who didn't dwell on a God, in fact the third world nations across the globe who share the same characteristics as those who don't care of a belief system are still behaving barbaric and cruel.
What is my point?.... My point is even if Tbombs can answere with a straight face that it wouldn't make a difference, he may not be far off in this generation only, but what he doesn't realize is even those who don't believe in a God and can act with a high moral standing only have this ability to do so cause the very Christian foundations that has paved the standards of this world in a civilized manner, western civilization is founded on Christian Morals and so is the Catholic church paving the way to civility in Europe.
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Why are you so hostile about this topic?
When people in the year 2011 believe that a snake spoke to people created from dirt and a rib, I happen to get hostile by the ignorance of some people in society for not rising above primitive beliefs from 2000+ years ago.
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When people in the year 2011 believe that a snake spoke to people created from dirt and a rib, I happen to get hostile by the ignorance of some people in society for not rising above primitive beliefs from 2000+ years ago.
If you were sitting with me face-to-face in conversation you wouldn't spew any hostility, and that's not some moronic tough guy line either....you just wouldn't. You wouldn't agree with my opinions, but you'd be polite, and we'd end up saying something like "let's just agree to disagree" and you'd be on your way.....that's it. The anonymity of the internet allows you to unleash; regardless of that luxury, it still isn't justification. I don't mind if people don't belief (certainly I would prefer they do), but I don't force change on people or demand you "change your ways". You're free to belief however you want. Fact of the matter is you can avoid all things Christian if you desire just as I can pretty much avoid the secular world for the most part in my day-to-day. The age of the belief system has nothing to do it. You're hostile online because you can be. I haven't lashed out at you and I don't agree with you, but I'm not mad at you. I don't need to insult or cuss out nonbelievers because they feel a certain way even if it stands in direct opposition to my position.
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When people in the year 2011 believe that a snake spoke to people created from dirt and a rib, I happen to get hostile by the ignorance of some people in society for not rising above primitive beliefs from 2000+ years ago.
According to that genesis tale, the Christian god (the demiurg) didn't want Adam or Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge. The snake had a nice conversation with Eve about that, and the outcome was that first Eve and then Adam ate from that tree. God didn't like that and both of them were kicked out of the garden. Psycho-god didn't want his folks to get smart, but stay dumb and childish. Yes, this makes perfectly sense to me. ::)
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If you were sitting with me face-to-face in conversation you wouldn't spew any hostility, and that's not some moronic tough guy line either....you just wouldn't. You wouldn't agree with my opinions, but you'd be polite, and we'd end up saying something like "let's just agree to disagree" and you'd be on your way.....that's it. The anonymity of the internet allows you to unleash; regardless of that luxury, it still isn't justification. I don't mind if people don't belief (certainly I would prefer they do), but I don't force change on people or demand you "change your ways". You're free to belief however you want. Fact of the matter is you can avoid all things Christian if you desire just as I can pretty much avoid the secular world for the most part in my day-to-day. The age of the belief system has nothing to do it. You're hostile online because you can be. I haven't lashed out at you and I don't agree with you, but I'm not mad at you. I don't need to insult or cuss out nonbelievers because they feel a certain way even if it stands in direct opposition to my position.
You are a religious nutcase, lol. Fucking idiot. :D
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You are a religious nutcase, lol. Fucking idiot. :D
Yes, yes....I'm a religious nutcase, a Jesus freak, an insane born again, a deluded moron, an uneducated closeminded exclusivist seeking control over the world and any reference material provided in support of my position is all based upon the findings of fraudulent, wackjob "experts" with no substantial or peer-reviewed works who are now considered outcasts in their fields of study.....just par for the course.....par for the course.
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Yes, yes....I'm a religious nutcase, a Jesus freak, an insane born again, a deluded moron, an uneducated closeminded exclusivist seeking control over the world and any reference material provided in support of my position is all based upon the findings of fraudulent, wackjob "experts" with no substantial or peer-reviewed works who are now considered outcasts in their fields of study.....just par for the course.....par for the course.
:o
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“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”
― Isaac Asimov
this sums up my feelings on the book ;D
asimov was on a side note, a depressive drug addict. JFYI.
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asimov was on a side note, a depressive drug addict. JFYI.
Lets entertain he was , that wouldn't change the validity of that statement.
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Lets entertain he was , that wouldn't change the validity of that statement.
If a believer provided support for a biblical contradiction and that support was based on the findings of a field expert that was both depressed and addicted to some type of drug I'm betting that support would be thrown out without consideration.
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Most people on earth when they die or experience NDE, see a white tunnel/light (spaceship? time/space travel ? )in the sky and feel like they re -their soul, spirit, consciousness- flying while seeing their body from outside. God say we join our "Fathers" , our lineage, when we die.
And it doesnt happen to everyone. Others seem scared when they die, when others die in peace.
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If a believer provided support for a biblical contradiction and that support was based on the findings of a field expert that was both depressed and addicted to some type of drug I'm betting that support would be thrown out without consideration.
Big difference it was an opinion it's not a fact. And Freud was addicted to coke his findings still hold up , the findings stand the test of time
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Most people on earth when they die or experience NDE, see a white tunnel/light (spaceship? time/space travel ? )in the sky and feel like they re -their soul, spirit, consciousness- flying while seeing their body from outside. God say we join our "Fathers" , our lineage, when we die.
And it doesnt happen to everyone. Others seem scared when they die, when others die in peace.
You're gonna speak for most people on earth? ::) it's very hard to take what you type with any amount of seriousness
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You're gonna speak for most people on earth? ::) it's very hard to take what you type with any amount of seriousness
you re either dumb or immature; we re all the same, looks like you still didnt figure that one. I guess you think you re unique, different, like so many nowadays, goes hand in hand with the fact you dont feel like you belong to a community, society, a bigger picture. You re alone, on your own, an individualist who dont believe in anything anymore but the satisfaction of his own animal impulses. You think you re a god. Always the same reasoning. Fact is you are not. And that there is a God above you and us all. There is something bigger than you and you re just part of it.
Funny how so many people , on here especially, look for genuine stable hapiness exactly where it is not and fail to see it is where they re not looking. They think it's in steroid, money, looking like an alpha male or some other bullshits.
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you re either dumb or immature; we re all the same, looks like you still didnt figure that one. I guess you think you re unique, different, like so many nowadays, goes hand in hand with the fact you dont feel like you belong to a community, society, a bigger picture. You re alone, on your own, an individualist who dont believe in anything anymore but the satisfaction of his own animal impulses. You think you re a god. Always the same reasoning. Fact is you are not. And that there is a God above you and us all. There is something bigger than you and you re just part of it.
Funny how so many people , on here especially, look for genuine stable hapiness exactly where it is not and fail to see it is where they re not looking. They think it's in steroid, money, looking like an alpha male or some other bullshits.
LMFAO like I said it's hard to take you seriously with the stuff you type. :D
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When people in the year 2011 believe that a snake spoke to people created from dirt and a rib, I happen to get hostile by the ignorance of some people in society for not rising above primitive beliefs from 2000+ years ago.
In that case the problem is with you? That what someone else believes troubles you so much. Say someone believes he use to be Alexander the Great and when he dies he's coming back as a parrot. I would think he is quite ignorant and delusional but it would hardly make me angry of hostile. I think it is preposterous that everything we see around us, all the complexities in this world, all the complexities in a single person, all happened by pure chance. Just a random concussion of molecules and over time -- boom-- we have you and me. But it in no way makes me hostile if people believe that.
I've always found it curious the attitude between Believers (Muslims excluded) and Atheist. A theist believes that Atheist are simply wrong but bear no animosity towards them. And Atheist not only think they are wrong but that it really bothers them and makes them "hostile" that people don't share their beliefs.
I suspect (meaning I'm not sure and of course atheist will deny it), that perhaps an atheist are not as secure in their beliefs as a theist/believer is. The reason I say that is that many, overwhelmingly non-Jews, are quite offended that a Christian believes a Jew will not be saved because he doesn't believe in Christ. I once asked a close friend who knows I believe this and why this concept does not bother him. The Christians believes he won't be saved. That I believe he won't be saved. He just said simply, "Because I don't believe that."
When you are secure in your beliefs it really doesn't matter what someone else believes.
SBG debate and argue but don't get angry and insult and attack others because don't share your beliefs.
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Read all of the posts on this thread by FreeSpirit. Just rants and insults. Offers no arguments or points for debate. At least Tbombz brings up very legitimate and fair questions that a believer must confront. FreeSpirit is the typical example of the European, secular, leftist (which is almost redundant). They don't debate they simply emote. All their views are based on feelings and emotions.
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Just compare the attitudes presented by the believers and non believers and how they come across. The "irrational" believers as opposed to the "rational" and "scientifically minded" atheist. Ugly and Tbombz are the notable exceptions. But then let us compare the world of a Tbombz with the world of a Christian. But I respect both for being respectful and asking poignant, thought provoking, and challenging questions.
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You are a religious nutcase, lol. Fucking idiot. :D
shut up you loser, we have enough atheist actually enjoying a trade in oipinions on this thread and then there is you showing us your stupidy and you have contributed nothing to yourside of the argument, nobody likes deadweight and don't bother posting back, save it since we all know what your reply will be
When people in the year 2011 believe that a snake spoke to people.....
serliously I understand where you are coming from, I would be close-minde if I didn't but you must understand that if you go back far enough the very concept of time and space is even more hocus pocus then a talking snake, what was before time? doesn't even makes sense. Was matter always there? if the universe is expanding what was before the expansion, no matter how you slice it at one point there would have had to have been a hous pocus somewhere in time cause time if time had a beginning, there is no logical explanation and if it didn't have a biginning then that to isn't logical, so talking snake?.......... well whatever you believe would be just as bad by difinition of a beginning not making any rational sense, but if you feel you can explain the origins of space matter and time rationally then I will freely admit that a snake never spoke, get my drift?