Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: wavelength on July 03, 2009, 02:23:33 PM
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
-
height/weight? impressive
-
Looking great. The low carb is visible though.. but I can see u know this. ;)
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
Woa! How much was your weight?
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
The Lord of Everything...showing how it's done. 8)
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
lean and gay smallish looking =result of natural doing a hard diet you lose fat and muscle rapidly but you lose fat extremely fast. i am going to try this non training/hard diet approach for a good week for extreme rippedness
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_0376.jpg)
i acheived a very similar condition of just 2.5 days when i went to the beach and had about 5 peices of fruit per day , didnt work out, but did some biking along the coast at low intensity
basically bottom line and my point is its best to NOT workout but diet HARD . the reason for not working out while dieting hard is to CONSERVE homeostasis type energy, in other words simple activity energy
when you workout hard you deplete shit very fast and have all sorts of nutritional demands, and there is a much higher potential for fatgain
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
looking fantastic , keep up the good work
-
height/weight? impressive
5'10", 145lbs ;D
Looking great. The low carb is visible though.. but I can see u know this. ;)
Well I'm a tiny tit in general. ;D
Woa! How much was your weight?
see above. :)
Couldn't bulk this year because of injuries so I said fock it and shred it up at least.
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
Great condition, mine was also pre carb up too.
-
5'10", 145lbs ;D
wow im on my way to being a tiny tall tit aswell
im 225 currently and am going to have to be around 190 to be shredded at 6feet6 :'(
-
The Lord of Everything...showing how it's done. 8)
Thanks man I hope to not disappoint too much
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
lets see that ass
-
Great pics AVBG and Johnny.
I didn't lose any muscle on the cut, my strength went up, it was a very slow cut.
I was just a tiny tit to start with. :D
-
Thanks man I hope to not disappoint too much
Wie koennte eine Gottheit wie Ihr jemals einen Sterblichen enttaeuschen? ???
-
lets see that ass
;D
-
Great pics AVBG and Johnny.
I didn't lose any muscle on the cut, my strength went up, it was a very slow cut.
I was just a tiny tit to start with. :D
well in the bible it says all men are created equal, im starting to realize this
as we all become a tiny tit if we 'all the way' diet for cuts everywhere
well we lose muscle size/volume being that your arms are 10 inches and mine are 11 inches, however you can still be strong even though they dont look it
-
well in the bible it says all men are created equal, im starting to realize this
as we all become a tiny tit if we 'all the way' diet for cuts everywhere
well we lose muscle size/volume being that your arms are 10 inches and mine are 11 inches, however you can still be strong even though they dont look it
They are a tad above 10 inches ;D
-
Wie koennte eine Gottheit wie Ihr jemals einen Sterblichen enttaeuschen? ???
you're too kind slayer of deities
-
Tomorrow I'm gonna post my complete nutrition of the last week all with pictures.
And some more pics after the carb-up and pumping up.
-
looking fantastic , keep up the good work
Thanks man!
-
looking great my austrian brother from another mother
-
Mr. Auschwitz 09'.
:)
-
looking great my austrian brother from another mother
Thanks bro, I'm happy to please my turkish brother
Mr. Auschwitz 09'.
:)
fo sho ;D
-
Tomorrow I'm gonna post my complete nutrition of the last week all with pictures.
And some more pics after the carb-up and pumping up.
looking forward to it buddy
-
Tomorrow I'm gonna post my complete nutrition of the last week all with pictures.
And some more pics after the carb-up and pumping up.
Good shit.
-
dude
you look fantastic
the last person you should listen to is Falcon the meth head
-
awesome! cant wait to see what a nice dose of carbs does to that look!
keep it up!
-
great conditioning! it's very sobering how light a natty needs to be to get super ripped
how do you look in this pose?
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
amazing!!.. your symmetry is like a mirror and you are dry like a tree branch!!..
Keep up the great "inspiring" work..
-
a lot of ectomorphes in this thread.
-
amazing conditioning
-
looking forward to it buddy
Good shit.
dude
you look fantastic
the last person you should listen to is Falcon the meth head
awesome! cant wait to see what a nice dose of carbs does to that look!
keep it up!
amazing!!.. your symmetry is like a mirror and you are dry like a tree branch!!..
Keep up the great "inspiring" work..
amazing conditioning
Thanks guys! :)
-
great conditioning! it's very sobering how light a natty needs to be to get super ripped
how do you look in this pose?
I have pics of a similar pose, will post them up.
I think I have potential for more mass in that condition, I just couldn't bulk this year because of injuries.
-
a lot of ectomorphes in this thread.
Well I sure am not an ecto, I e.g. gain fat very easily.
Every natty looks ecto in that condition.
-
What was your weight before you got your diet down?
-
Looking great wavy. I'm just simply not capable these days of the self-denial to even approach that BF. Kudos.
-
What was your weight before you got your diet down?
I think it was about 156-158 lbs at the beginning of this year. My body composition was way worse because of 3 months of not training at all. It was a very slow 6 months recompositioning process. I ended up at about 150 one week ago. The last week I lost about 5 lbs of water.
-
Looking great wavy. I'm just simply not capable these days of the self-denial to even approach that BF. Kudos.
Some one hasn't been paying attention to the Wavelength Diet Principles.
-
Tomorrow I'm gonna post my complete nutrition of the last week all with pictures.
And some more pics after the carb-up and pumping up.
Where you gonna post them? A separate forum?
Include your general diet for more than the last week, please.
-
Looking great wavy. I'm just simply not capable these days of the self-denial to even approach that BF. Kudos.
Some one hasn't been paying attention to the Wavelength Diet Principles.
Exactly, wait till I post pics of last week's meals, there was no self-denial at all. :)
I also have a complete food log of the whole 6 months, partly with pics.
-
Where you gonna post them? A separate forum?
Include your general diet for more than the last week, please.
Right here on this thread. I will include the general diet and on request, each and every meal of any given day of 2009. :)
-
Exactly, wait till I post pics of last week's meals, there was no self-denial at all. :)
I also have a complete food log of the whole 6 months, partly with pics.
Uh, when I say self-denial, I mean Lucullan gluttony. 8)
-
Uh, when I say self-denial, I mean Lucullan gluttony. 8)
Well it wasn't 24h of it every day, that's for sure.
-
OK, so first off, some info on my general cutting diet as requested. For the last 6 months, this is what I have been doing:
On weekdays: One big meal at a restaurant (asian, austrian, greek, indian, etc.). I basically ordered whatever I wanted. I only tried to get some veggies, fruit, and salad everyday. In addition, I sipped on a 100g whey protein shake during the day and had a few grams of flax/sesame/fish oil.
On Sunday: pig-out. Whatever and how much I wanted, within the rules of a certain rate of weight loss of course.
Training: 4 times a week, no cardio.
For the final week which I will describe in detail, I basically did the same thing but with sodium restriction. This meant I had to cook all my meals. I loosley followed Layne Norton's final contest prep guide but changed all the non-wavelength compatible things (like horrible food, cardio, etc.).
His complete guide can be found here: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm
-
Day 1/7
Light workout as suggested by Layne.
Nutrition:
Lunch at Home: homemade pork tenderloin in mushroom-spinach sauce, fried potatoes, cherry ice cream with chestnut puree and cherry sauce, diet soda.
Rest of the Day: 100g whey protein shake, some EFA oil.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/2a151c21.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/98e15f0e.jpg)
-
Day 2/7
Workout was again very light but still taxing.
Nutrition:
Lunch at Home: rocket salad, tenderloin beef cubes in saur cream beer sauce with chili fries and garlic pole beans, large beer, vanilla quark cream with strawberries, bananas, and strawberry syrup, diet soda.
Rest of the Day: 100g whey protein shake, some EFA oil.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/f32f031b.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/aad50d92.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/a75963d7.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/2f30de3f.jpg)
-
Day 3/7
Rest.
Nutrition:
Lunch at Home: homemade beef palatschinken with saur cream, roasted cabbage, and tomatoes, cream-of-wheat cinnamon pudding with strawberries and honey, diet soda.
Rest of the Day: 100g whey protein shake, some EFA oil.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/9b64b5e0.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/607d4315.jpg)
-
Day 4/7
Last workout of the experiment. Again very light but taxing.
Nutrition:
Lunch at Home: homemade gyros with tzaziki and mushroom rice, strawberry ice cream, diet soda.
Rest of the Day: 100g whey protein shake, some EFA oil.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/dd18c7a3.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/e83d0365.jpg)
-
;D ;D
(http://i43.tinypic.com/v7w181.jpg)
I can still be semi fat and still have "abs" in my back.
its gonna be cool when Im juiced up and try to take the conditioning into a new level
-
Day 5/7
Rest. Switched from protein shakes to fish and stopped with the soda, as suggested by Layne's guide.
Nutrition:
Lunch at Home: homemade sesame chicken schnitzel with roasted tomatoes and cabbage, white wine, vanilla ice cream with banana and honey.
Rest of the Day: 600g codfish.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/ce0194ab.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/5ff1dbb7.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/d15222d7.jpg)
-
Day 5/7
Rest. Switched from protein shakes to fish and stopped with the soda, as suggested by Layne's guide.
Nutrition:
Lunch at Home: homemade sesame chicken schnitzel with roasted tomatoes and cabbage, white wine, vanilla ice cream with banana and honey.
Rest of the Day: 600g codfish.
Only that in one entire day?
Man I would melt away lol.
-
Day 6/7
Rest. Switched to zander filet because it has less salt. Started some carbing up today.
Nutrition:
Lunch at Home: homemade filet mignon hash browns.
Rest of the Day: 1lb zander filet.
Preparation for tomorrow: a little bit of carbing up in the evening (I didn't eat all the candy of course).
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/7a42b35a.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/891c040b.jpg)
-
Day 7/7
Some pumping up.
Nutrition:
Breakfast: two eggs.
Until 6pm: chicken tornedos, fried peppers, candy.
At 4pm: lactose-free ice cream and 1.5g of salt.
Dinner: duoble whopper with onion rings, 9 hot wings, potatoe wedges, ben & jerry's ice cream, cookies, caramel cheese cake, haagen-dazs ice cream, rum-coconut balls, alcohol-free beer.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/2261a273.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/891c040b.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/358fa640.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/10bce1f2.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/29c5f5ac.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/482e9744.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/c813501c.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/6bd96ff9.jpg)
-
I can still be semi fat and still have "abs" in my back.
its gonna be cool when Im juiced up and try to take the conditioning into a new level
Yeah it's strange, my back is also in good condition year round, but I have never been that dry before.
Only that in one entire day?
Man I would melt away lol.
Just the fat/water would melt if you got enough protein as I have. :)
-
Yeah it's strange, my back is also in good condition year round, but I have never been that dry before.
Just the fat/water would melt if you got enough protein as I have. :)
I can have lovehandles but when I flex I can still see "abs" in the middle lol.
And my legs are always rock hard.
-
I took the final pics after the pumping up and before dinner of course. Will post all pics probably tomorrow.
-
And my legs are always rock hard.
Mine never, as will be seen in the pics. :'(
-
I wish you could be my coach.
I gave up on WLDP because unless I precisely count that one big meal (which for me was in the morning) I couldn't get the deficit correct. Now with just chicken/white fish/greens and shakes I don't need to count....
-
Mine never, as will be seen in the pics. :'(
keep in mind I said Hard not defined ;D
-
I wish you could be my coach.
I gave up on WLDP because unless I precisely count that one big meal (which for me was in the morning) I couldn't get the deficit correct. Now with just chicken/white fish/greens and shakes I don't need to count....
you would look 100 times better if you did a haaard diet and then clean bulk like I did.
maby we would have to terminate THG then though =(
-
you would look 100 times better if you did a haaard diet and then clean bulk like I did.
maby we would have to terminate THG then though =(
Am doing the hard diet again...but THG will be forever. Can't change that.
-
keep in mind I said Hard not defined ;D
I've given up on the ultimate goal of any bodybuilder: shredded glutes. ;D
Ain't gonna happen.
-
I wish you could be my coach.
I gave up on WLDP because unless I precisely count that one big meal (which for me was in the morning) I couldn't get the deficit correct. Now with just chicken/white fish/greens and shakes I don't need to count....
It's all experience. I went to the same chinese buffet for quite some time and somehow learned to estimate how much I could eat. Once you have learned it at one place, it's much easier in different places and with different foods. But counting calories and eating crap works too of course. ;D
-
Am doing the hard diet again...but THG will be forever. Can't change that.
HARD GO HARD BABY
-
HARD GO HARD BABY
Nuttin' butta peanut...
-
ITS ON 'TIL THE BREAK OF DAWN MOTHERFUCKERS
-
ITS ON 'TIL THE BREAK OF DAWN MOTHERFUCKERS
gotta get one thang straight
i'm undefeated when it comes to hollerin' that white girls
-
Very impressive, Wavelength. Food looks fantastic as always.
-
food more impressive than anything else ;D
-
epic ikea table though^^
-
awesome condition. Even after many years of messing around with calorie restriction I don't think I ever achieved that.
Food looks great I was licking the screen. If you ever have trouble in your career you should be a food stylist / photographer, or a chef if it tastes as good as it looks.
Physique is proportional, symmetrical and well developed. Lats look to be lagging a bit but I think that is because of the way you are hitting the pose. If you work on scapular mobility a bit I bet it will look a lot thicker.
-
awesome condition. Even after many years of messing around with calorie restriction I don't think I ever achieved that.
Food looks great I was licking the screen. If you ever have trouble in your career you should be a food stylist / photographer, or a chef if it tastes as good as it looks.
Physique is proportional, symmetrical and well developed. Lats look to be lagging a bit but I think that is because of the way you are hitting the pose. If you work on scapular mobility a bit I bet it will look a lot thicker.
Wavelength is the Alpha-male, owns his own computer company and gym and is ripped to shreds.
-
epic ikea table though^^
you mad bro?
that's as far from an ikea table as possible.
I actually designed that one myself. :)
-
Very impressive, Wavelength. Food looks fantastic as always.
Thanks!
food more impressive than anything else ;D
:-\ ;D
-
awesome condition. Even after many years of messing around with calorie restriction I don't think I ever achieved that.
Food looks great I was licking the screen. If you ever have trouble in your career you should be a food stylist / photographer, or a chef if it tastes as good as it looks.
Physique is proportional, symmetrical and well developed. Lats look to be lagging a bit but I think that is because of the way you are hitting the pose. If you work on scapular mobility a bit I bet it will look a lot thicker.
Thanks bro, but it's not only the lats lagging "a bit". ;D
I'll post a lat spread later on.
-
Wavelength is the Alpha-male, owns his own computer company and gym and is ripped to shreds.
let's not get crazy now ;D
-
Wavelength is still a homo that can not compute.
-
Wavelength is still a homo that can not compute.
Haha, good to have you back, you doofus! ;D
How's duck?
-
Haha, good to have you back, you doofus! ;D
How's duck?
Duck was supposed to be reprimanded by Donald Lawrence, but instead broke his jaw and raped him while he was knocked out. Right now her whereabouts = unknown, and Debussey = left to itself >:(
She did say something about dating some weird freak from the land of Schitzels :o
-
worse dieet ever, how much clen you used to get that riped ;D
-
worse dieet ever, how much clen you used to get that riped ;D
What's wrong about it? ::)
-
Duck was supposed to be reprimanded by Donald Lawrence, but instead broke his jaw and raped him while he was knocked out. Right now her whereabouts = unknown, and Debussey = left to itself >:(
She did say something about dating some weird freak from the land of Schitzels :o
Haha, you must have misheard
-
worse dieet ever, how much clen you used to get that riped ;D
LOL, it's the best pre-contest diet ever!
I have never used any fat burner in my life.
-
is that jean claude van damme wave? ;D
-
is that jean claude van damme wave? ;D
???
-
???
What did you eat today master?
-
NICE FOOD PICS!
-
Good stuff my friend.
Looks EXACTLY like what I eat.
I made a Torta Caprese Bianca, baked some English Toasting Bread, Smoked some Applewood Bacon and picked some Tomatoes from our garden and made the best BLT and had the cake with it.
In the fridge, I have some homemade pizza dough fermenting for later tonight along with some buffalo mozzarella and Fontina. I may also put some Ostrich sausage on it, haven`t decided.
I should post some pics of my current condition as it is my best as well.
-
The Torta Caprese Bianca we made with a picture of our Greyhound on it.
It is a REALLY traditional Italian cake that is not really found anywhere in the United States. It consists of 7 oz of almond flour, 7 eggs, and 8 oz of white chocolate along with lemon.
Really, really Italian. The recipe we used was from Napoli from Materita.
It looked like this but we had a picture of our Greyhound dusted out in confectioners sugar.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__88ZCQ5jRIs/RqsIeS7XZ0I/AAAAAAAAFqo/z78onpDsViQ/s400/luna-caprese.jpg)
-
Preview: this was taken before final carb-up and pumping up, more pics to come.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
PHOTOSHOPPED :)
joking aside: congrats: des host sehr guet gmocht!
-
PHOTOSHOPPED :)
joking aside: congrats: des host sehr guet gmocht!
Streng dich doch an, Junge, ich weiss, wie schwer es euch Schweizern faellt, etwas Verstaendliches Deutsch zu reden...
-
Streng dich doch an, Junge, ich weiss, wie schwer es euch Schweizern faellt, etwas Verstaendliches Deutsch zu reden...
österreichisch, nicht deutsch, du saftnase. 8)
-
österreichisch, nicht deutsch, du saftnase. 8)
That could almost be interpreted as "a nose full of sperm" by an ignorant foreigner.
-
Looking great Wavelength.
-
What did you eat today master?
not exactly gourmet food. ;D
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/0c52b720.jpg)
-
Good stuff my friend.
Looks EXACTLY like what I eat.
I made a Torta Caprese Bianca, baked some English Toasting Bread, Smoked some Applewood Bacon and picked some Tomatoes from our garden and made the best BLT and had the cake with it.
In the fridge, I have some homemade pizza dough fermenting for later tonight along with some buffalo mozzarella and Fontina. I may also put some Ostrich sausage on it, haven`t decided.
I should post some pics of my current condition as it is my best as well.
Thanks TA!
Looking forward to your pics.
-
not exactly gourmet food. ;D
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/0c52b720.jpg)
That dry disgusting pizza again? Debussey thought you and it had talked about that :-X >:(
-
PHOTOSHOPPED :)
To a degree, sure. I shoot the pics with a crappy snapshot camera in my bathroom so some color correction etc. is required. I aslo always cut out the background for privacy reasons.
joking aside: congrats: des host sehr guet gmocht!
Merci!
es heisst übrigens "guat" :)
-
To a degree, sure. I shoot the pics with a crappy snapshot camera in my bathroom so some color correction etc. is required. I aslo always cut out the background for privacy reasons.
Merci!
You also said you remove moles and other marks that could be used to identify you.
-
Im in my best condition right now also, 6ft.2 190lbs with some ABS baby. :D :'(
Still need to lose another 10lbs of fat but i cba i just want to get more muscle mass/strength
-
You also said you remove moles and other marks that could be used to identify you.
Wavelength lives in a secret bunker...and has agents everywhere. ;D
-
You also said you remove moles and other marks that could be used to identify you.
correct.
-
correct.
I have to say, there is a strange narcissism to your paranoia, very interesting.
-
Looking great Wavelength.
thanks man, I wish I had your mass and cuts
-
I have to say, there is a strange narcissism to your paranoia, very interesting.
Paranoia = good.
-
thanks man, I wish I had your dick ramming up my ass
:-X
-
That dry disgusting pizza again? Debussey thought you and it had talked about that :-X >:(
Well the pizza you showed wasn't anything Italian either ;D
-
Paranoia = good.
Hmm...sometimes it is, but to be honest I have found it to be far more damaging in my life than helpful.
-
Im in my best condition right now also, 6ft.2 190lbs with some ABS baby. :D :'(
Still need to lose another 10lbs of fat but i cba i just want to get more muscle mass/strength
Post some pics!
-
Well the pizza you showed wasn't anything Italian either ;D
But it looked delicious, compared to the carboard looking crap you eat.
-
Hmm...sometimes it is, but to be honest I have found it to be far more damaging in my life than helpful.
Perhaps your paranoia = more based on irrationality than a cold, calculated approach?
-
But it looked delicious, compared to the carboard looking crap you eat.
OK Anthony Bourdaine
-
Wavelength is a man of lean cuts, wealth and paranoia, no doubt about it. 8)
-
Perhaps your paranoia = more based on irrationality than a cold, calculated approach?
No. You never worked in Korea. Believe me, it helps to be paranoid.
-
OK Anthony Bourdain
(http://www.climatechangecorp.com/resources/images/content/large/20073147294_cardboard.jpg)
-
So here are the pics, all from Friday, first one was shot in the morning:
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_triceps_20090703_morning_final.jpg)
The next one at noon, was pretty dry by then:
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_abs_20090703_noon_final.jpg)
Next two in the afternoon, I probably was the driest there
(leg pic to show that I actually had some veins in the legs):
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_legs_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
-
And here are the pics after final carb-up and pumping up. Unfortunally, the lighting wasn't too good.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_lats_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_mm_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_side_right_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_side_left_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_legs_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
-
So here are the pics, all from Friday, frist one was shot in the morning:
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_triceps_20090703_morning_final.jpg)
The next one at noon, was pretty dry by then:
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_abs_20090703_noon_final.jpg)
Next two in the afternoon, I probably was the driest there
(leg pic to show that I actually had some veins in the legs):
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_legs_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
Actually I do see some hair on your legs. You DO have body hair... :-\
-
Actually I do see some hair on your legs. You DO have body hair... :-\
On arms and legs sure, I'm not an alien after all ;D
-
omg u look increible!!
did u get any breakouts from the sugary carby food ever?
-
omg u look increible!!
did u get any breakouts from the sugary carby food ever?
Thanks man!
Nah, I rarely get any breakouts nowadays, after all I'm an old fart. ;D
-
Nah, I rarely get any breakouts nowadays, after all I'm an old fart. ;D
What about after eating cardboard?
-
What about after eating cardboard?
???
-
???
Do you break out after eating that cardboard you call pizza?
And when you eat the cardboard, does it influence the taste of your sperm like eating loads of tuna tends to do?
-
Do you break out after eating that cardboard you call pizza?
And when you eat the cardboard, does it influence the taste of your sperm like eating loads of tuna tends to do?
back off!
-
wavelength,
will you ever decorate your walls?
-
back off!
Legs and arms are not as defined as the rest of you. Must be genetics.
-
back off!
Why? Is this cardboard-eating fetish and its implications for the flavour of your sperm a touchy subject a touchy subject for you?
-
wavelength,
will you ever decorate your walls?
LOL, the funny thing is I really have no wall decoration, I like plain white walls for the most part. My apartment is very minimalistic.
-
Legs and arms are not as defined as the rest of you. Must be genetics.
yip
-
LOL, the funny thing is I really have no wall decoration, I like plain white walls for the most part. My apartment is very minimalistic.
i too have a minimalistic approach (ie i'm too broke right now to afford that huge ass Bloodsport lithograph that i'm gonna put behind my couch)
btw, I (yes, me) envy your aesthetics- well done
-
Why? Is this cardboard-eating fetish and its implications for the flavour of your sperm a touchy subject a touchy subject for you?
I like my grub, doesn't always have to be your fancy gourmet pizza, you snob! >:(
-
i too have a minimalistic approach (ie i'm too broke right now to afford that huge ass Bloodsport lithograph that i'm gonna put behind my couch)
btw, I (yes, me) envy your aesthetics- well done
Thanks man, you're not exactly a slouch yourself when it comes to aesthetics.
-
yip
Further proof that genetics=everything.
-
I like my grub, doesn't always have to be your fancy gourmet pizza, you snob! >:(
Even frozen pizza = better than the cardboard crap you = eating between your nice meals. That stuff = in a class of crapness of its own.
And don't tell people that you live in an apt. You might give out too many details about yourself :o ;D
-
Thanks man, you're not exactly a slouch yourself when it comes to aesthetics.
thanx
dude, this is what i was talking about btw (for the wall that is
http://fortsmith.craigslist.org/art/1222194451.html (http://fortsmith.craigslist.org/art/1222194451.html)
tell me how badass that is
-
Even frozen pizza = better than the cardboard crap you = eating between your nice meals. That stuff = in a class of crapness of its own.
And don't tell people that you live in an apt. You might give out too many details about yourself :o ;D
Did I say apartment, I meant Villa of course. ;D
-
Did I say apartment, I meant Villa of course. ;D
Data mining for "Wavelength from Getbig" = updated. Important information found! Important information found! Can soon compute! Can soon compute!
-
Do you break out after eating that cardboard you call pizza?
And when you eat the cardboard, does it influence the taste of your sperm like eating loads of tuna tends to do?
LOL please disregard debussey his IQ is 52 ;D
-
LOL please disregard debussey his IQ is 52 ;D
No need to rub it in you bastard >:(
* For more information about Debussey's training and cognitive performance, check out this thread:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=206513.0
-
thanx
dude, this is what i was talking about btw (for the wall that is
http://fortsmith.craigslist.org/art/1222194451.html (http://fortsmith.craigslist.org/art/1222194451.html)
tell me how badass that is
lol, that would be a little bit too martial arts for me
-
No need to rub it in you bastard >:(
* For more information about Debussey's training and cognitive performance, check out this thread:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=206513.0
you haven't updated the thread lately :'(
-
lol, that would be a little bit too martial arts for me
not only that but if you bring a girl over and she sees that, you might not get laid
-
you haven't updated the thread lately :'(
Debussey currently thinks training = for fags. Real men drink beer.
-
Debussey currently thinks training = for fags. Real men drink beer.
LOL ;D
-
Good god ur exceptionally lean - fantastic
-
Good god ur exceptionally lean - fantastic
Thanks man!
It was surprisingly easy.
I wish I could do a crazy bulk right now.
-
Debussey currently thinks training = for fags. Real men drink beer.
It's what I will be doing for one week now. ;D
-
you look great!
time to bulk up! :)
-
you look great!
time to bulk up! :)
Thanks man!
I hope to be bulking soon, all depends on the stupid injuries.
-
The Torta Caprese Bianca we made with a picture of our Greyhound on it.
It is a REALLY traditional Italian cake that is not really found anywhere in the United States. It consists of 7 oz of almond flour, 7 eggs, and 8 oz of white chocolate along with lemon.
Really, really Italian. The recipe we used was from Napoli from Materita.
It looked like this but we had a picture of our Greyhound dusted out in confectioners sugar.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__88ZCQ5jRIs/RqsIeS7XZ0I/AAAAAAAAFqo/z78onpDsViQ/s400/luna-caprese.jpg)
Link to recipe?
-
Thanks man!
Nah, I rarely get any breakouts nowadays, after all I'm an old fart. ;D
Old fart? Your physique looks like you are in your twenties. How old are you?
-
lol, that would be a little bit too martial arts for me
Then just get a Scar Face poster. Black chicks dig that.
-
It's what I will be doing for one week now. ;D
Debussey never said that beer-drinkers = a group consisting exclusively of real men. Tiny tits and cardboard eating/spermflavoringagent eating freaks with a serious privacy paranoia could also be included in this group.
You'll never know ;D
-
Old fart? Your physique looks like you are in your twenties. How old are you?
36
-
36
Data mining for "Wavelength from Getbig" = updated. Important information found! Important information found! Can soon compute! Can soon compute!
-
Then just get a Scar Face poster. Black chicks dig that.
You talking from experience?
-
Debussey never said that beer-drinkers = a group consisting exclusively of real men. Tiny tits and cardboard eating/spermflavoringagent eating freaks with a serious privacy paranoia could also be included in this group.
You'll never know ;D
I will eat cardboard pizza every day from now on just to annoy you! ;D
Data mining for "Wavelength from Getbig" = updated. Important information found! Important information found! Can soon compute! Can soon compute!
Firewall active, no additional information released, will not compute.
-
I will eat cardboard pizza every day from now on just to annoy you! ;D
Firewall active, no additional information released, will not compute.
Have you ever fired an underling using your awesome company owing powers? ???
-
Have you ever fired an underling using your awesome company owing powers? ???
No.
-
No.
You should because you are mighty and poweful and you need to show the world this.
-
You should because you are mighty and poweful and you need to show the world this.
Good idea, I will stomp into the office, rip off my shirt, go into a most muscular, and scream with an Arnold accent "GET AAAUUUT, JUAHRRR AAHHHLL FIAHHHHD". ;D
-
Good idea, I will stomp into the office, rip off my shirt, go into a most muscular, and scream with an Arnold accent "GET AAAUUUT, JUAHRRR AAHHHLL FIAHHHHD". ;D
Now THAT, sounds like a plan! :)
-
Good idea, I will stomp into the office, rip off my shirt, go into a most muscular, and scream with an Arnold accent "GET AAAUUUT, JUAHRRR AAHHHLL FIAHHHHD". ;D
Or you could just fire the employees not necessary for your firms core competency/CSF and outsource their work to India or something :D
And perhaps threaten to end the lives of critical employees if they ever chose to leave or become less than 99% dedicated :D
-
BTW, if and when you do a bulk, what will you be eating and how do you go about it?
-
BTW, if and when you do a bulk, what will you be eating and how do you go about it?
He will eat the same, just do 2 -3 solid meals instead of 1.
-
He will eat the same, just do 2 -3 solid meals instead of 1.
:o
Did you read his mind?
-
:o
Did you read his mind?
No, he wrote it in some thread over at BB.com or something if Debussey remembers correctly.
-
Lookin' great Wave. What are ur plans now?
Sind das wirklich nur 65 kg auf 1,80?
-
Lookin' great Wave. What are ur plans now?
Sind das wirklich nur 65 kg auf 1,80?
He looks to be around 65, yes.
-
Or you could just fire the employees not necessary for your firms core competency/CSF and outsource their work to India or something :D
And perhaps threaten to end the lives of critical employees if they ever chose to leave or become less than 99% dedicated :D
The outsourcing thing is not as easy as it looks like. I'd rather keep it here.
-
He will eat the same, just do 2 -3 solid meals instead of 1.
yip
-
Lookin' great Wave. What are ur plans now?
Sind das wirklich nur 65 kg auf 1,80?
65 @ 1,78
-
The outsourcing thing is not as easy as it looks like. I'd rather keep it here.
The outsourcing thing was a joke.
And what does "yip" mean?
-
The outsourcing thing was a joke.
And what does "yip" mean?
Yip=ja that is what I will do.
-
The outsourcing thing was a joke.
do not compute "joke"
And what does "yip" mean?
-
do not compute "joke"
Compute this:
(Or break down in tears like that homo Debussey)
-
do not compute "joke"
Ronnie could be a funny guy.
-
Ronnie could be a funny guy.
If you just sit around and have a normal conversation with him he probably appears very different from the way he appears on camera.
-
Tribue to a great austrian hero
:'(
-
It's tempting to be lean, but im sitting here at 95kg after losing about 7-8kg, and i just don't think i could bring myself to lose another 30kg on top of that. I'll get down to low 80's, but any lighter than that i don't think i could handle.....
-
It's tempting to be lean, but im sitting here at 95kg after losing about 7-8kg, and i just don't think i could bring myself to lose another 30kg on top of that. I'll get down to low 80's, but any lighter than that i don't think i could handle.....
You're still young, no harm son.
-
You're still young, no harm son.
I think it's a mental thing moreso than a physical one. Wave is shredded, no doubt about it. But 65kg is tiny. I'd like to be leaner, but if being shredded calls for me to be that lkight, i think i will just settle for lean.....
-
I think it's a mental thing moreso than a physical one. Wave is shredded, no doubt about it. But 65kg is tiny. I'd like to be leaner, but if being shredded calls for me to be that lkight, i think i will just settle for lean.....
Life is all about experience son. It's not like I can't go up in weight again.
-
Life is all about experience son. It's not like I can't go up in weight again.
True, and i meant no disrespect by what i said. I guess it's hard to not get caught up in the numbers.......
-
True, and i meant no disrespect by what i said. I guess it's hard to not get caught up in the numbers.......
Haha, I know I'm a tiny tit, no disrespect. I think my genetic potential at that condition is probably around 160lbs.
-
Haha, I know I'm a tiny tit, no disrespect. I think my genetic potential at that condition is probably around 160lbs.
Turn My Back on Yesterday
Whispered words and stories told
Reputations bought and sold
Truths a luxury we can't afford
Always thought I'd lead a simple life
I've learned my lesson
Now I've paid my price
The truth is one thing that can't be ignored
And when I crash into your arms
I'll let the memories drift away
Close the door on what's come before
Turn my back on yesterday
Remember when the world seemed new
The time was right for what we wanted to do
But those days are gone
Killed by the cold
Today I live my life a broken man
Too weak to fight
Too weak to take a stand
Can it be right for someone young
To feel so old?
And when I crash into your arms
I'll let the memories drift away
Close the door on what's come before
Turn my back on yesterday
You shelter me
You comfort me
You know every feeling inside of me
Believe in me
Put your faith in me
And bring out the strongest inside of me
And when I crash into your arms
I'll let the memories drift away
Close the door on what's come before
Turn my back on yesterday.
-
congrats wave.
great conditioning 8)
the food you were eating looked nice too - bit too fancy for my tastes though. :P
what injuries do you have?
-
congrats wave.
great conditioning 8)
the food you were eating looked nice too - bit too fancy for my tastes though. :P
what injuries do you have?
Are you still trying to ride Deicides nuts? ;D
-
congrats wave.
great conditioning 8)
the food you were eating looked nice too - bit too fancy for my tastes though. :P
what injuries do you have?
Thanks!
I have a pulled chest and pulled biceps. Probably both pulled at the tendon, that's why it takes forever to heal.
-
Are you still trying to ride Deicides nuts? ;D
???
you and duck can take a flying **** to yourself :P ;D
-
100 lbs.?
-
100 lbs.?
close, 145 ;D
-
Thanks!
I have a pulled chest and pulled biceps. Probably both pulled at the tendon, that's why it takes forever to heal.
how long have you been out of action? how long till you are back in the gym ?
-
145 for real? look like 100-105...but props and congrats...
-
145 for real? look like 100-105...but props and congrats...
100lbs.....lol
-
dude...matt is in mexico and is barely 170-178...see how much bigger matt is? but he says 145-160...so be it...
-
dude...matt is in mexico and is barely 170...see how much bigger matt is? but he says 145-160...so be it...
Yeah, but matt is also 5'5. Wave is a bit taller.....
-
Yeah, but matt is also 5'5. Wave is a bit taller.....
You=the fucking man!
-
like i said...props...not hating...he just does not look like 145-160...more like 100-115...
-
You=the fucking man!
wow! :o
What did i do to deserve such praise?!
-
You=the fucking man!
you=a fucking raging homo
-
like i said...props...not hating...he just does not look like 145-160...more like 100-115...
Why 145-160?
I was 145, I hope to be 160 someday in that condition.
-
Why 145-160?
I was 145, I hope to be 160 someday in that condition.
Stoff mein Freund..Stoff. Er ist dein Freund auch...
-
like i said...props...not hating...he just does not look like 145-160...more like 100-115...
LOL With 100-115 you look like a friggin Auschwitz-prisoner.
It's genereally hard to make an assesment from these pics tough, as he stands so friggin close to the camera all the time, which actually makes you appear A LOT bigger than you are (no hatin; that's a fact).
-
Not really a great way to prove it but here ya go (taken 5min ago). Obviously I'm a tad heavier now after the pig-out.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/4d819b96.jpg)
-
LOL With 100-115 you look like a friggin Auschwitz-prisoner.
It's genereally hard to make an assesment from these pics tough, as he stands so friggin close to the camera all the time, which actually makes you appear A LOT bigger than you are (no hatin; that's a fact).
Not true for all pics.
But I don't have a huge bathroom and that's the only room with decent light.
-
Brutal little toes.....
-
brutal cat like toenails Lol. ;D
-
Brutal floorboards.....
-
Epic big toe being shorter than the one next to it.
-
you guys crack me up ;D
-
Epic big toe being shorter than the one next to it.
I have that. That is actually a good thing. It is referred to as an "Athletes foot"
-
Not really a great way to prove it but here ya go (taken 5min ago). Obviously I'm a tad heavier now after the pig-out.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/4d819b96.jpg)
You have an awesome wooden floor man! :o
-
I have that. That is actually a good thing. It is referred to as an "Athletes foot"
Its actually referred to as having inbred parents :-X
-
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=288662.0;attach=328485;image)
-
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=288662.0;attach=328485;image)
Can we see some pics of you? You seem to be a huge and ripped guy, so you could inspire us all. :)
-
Its actually referred to as having inbred parents :-X
But i'm not from Tasmania or Wellington.......so it can't be that.
-
kyomu is a man with muscle no doubt about it
-
Can we see some pics of you? You seem to be a huge and ripped guy, so you could inspire us all. :)
Namat made that picture.
p.s i know you have a fetish for bald headed males which is why you defend every last one on the forum.. but it's getting disturbing. :-\
-
You have an awesome wooden floor man! :o
Thanks man I chopped down the tree with my own bare hands. It was part of my prep.
-
Thanks man I chopped down the tree with my own bare hands. It was part of my prep.
You are an amazing guy, no doubt about it.
-
But i'm not from Tasmania or Wellington.......so it can't be that.
Calm down Gloria. We all know Deliverence was filmed in Sydney.
-
That floor gives me the feeling that you have a minimalist approach to your home decor and that you are a fan of ikea furniture.
-
That floor gives me the feeling that you have a minimalist approach to your home decor and that you are a fan of ikea furniture.
Wavelength=amazing man of wealth, taste, company owning, computer expertise, rippedness and great wisdom, clearly living TEH dream...
-
Day 1/7
Light workout as suggested by Layne.
Nutrition:
Lunch at Home: homemade pork tenderloin in mushroom-spinach sauce, fried potatoes, cherry ice cream with chestnut puree and cherry sauce, diet soda.
Rest of the Day: 100g whey protein shake, some EFA oil.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/2a151c21.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv350/wave_length/98e15f0e.jpg)
again you are suggesting you got absolutely shredded on that and again I am calling you out as a big fucking liar pushing the so called "apenis principles "
-
Wavelength=amazing man of wealth, taste, company owning, computer expertise, rippedness and great wisdom, clearly living TEH dream...
He is like my online father..........i call him "E-Dad"
-
He is like my online father..........i call him "E-Dad"
I feel the same way, brings a tear to my eyes... :'(
-
I feel the same way, brings a tear to my eyes... :'(
Your like my other E-Dad. It's 2009, so no one really cares that i have 2 dads.....
-
Your like my other E-Dad. It's 2009, so no one really cares that i have 2 dads.....
Thanks son, you are my E-son too... :)
-
That floor gives me the feeling that you have a minimalist approach to your home decor and that you are a fan of ikea furniture.
Right on the first one.
I rarely find anything appealing at ikea, have some at not so prominent places though.
-
again you are suggesting you got absolutely shredded on that and again I am calling you out as a big fucking liar pushing the so called "apenis principles "
You think he cooks all of these meals everyday to fool people and then throws em away and eats his rice and chicken? :D
-
again you are suggesting you got absolutely shredded on that and again I am calling you out as a big fucking liar pushing the so called "apenis principles "
Well you believe what you believe.
I can only repeat that I have never told one single lie on getbig.
-
You think he cooks all of these meals everyday to fool people and then throws em away and eats his rice and chicken? :D
Ich bin Mitglied der FPOE!
-
Right on the first one.
I rarely find anything appealing at ikea, have some at not so prominent places though.
Yeah ikea is gay. I need a new lamp. I broke mine last night..... ;D
-
Yeah ikea is gay. I need a new lamp. I broke mine last night..... ;D
Don't worry about it webcke, young rich guys like yourself shouldn't concern themselves with trivial stuff like that. Let a butler get you a new lamp immediately.
-
I think you got johnnynoshame on conditioning right now
-
I think you got johnnynoshame on conditioning right now
LOL, I certainly ain't got nothing on you man.
-
LOL, I certainly ain't got nothing on you man.
Haha, conditioning right now you do. I ain't too far off right now but to hold that shit sucks. my immune system is shit trying to stay that low.
-
Haha, conditioning right now you do. I ain't too far off right now but to hold that shit sucks. my immune system is shit trying to stay that low.
prepping for a show?
-
prepping for a show?
Not exactly. Was going to do one last month but too much shit got in the way. Right now I'm trying the JROD approach by staying fairly lean and gaining.
-
Don't worry about it webcke, young rich guys like yourself shouldn't concern themselves with trivial stuff like that. Let a butler get you a new lamp immediately.
you are suggesting me that you go from pudgy to THAT eating restaurant food and icecream and THAT absolutely insults my intelligence
-
you are suggesting me that you go from pudgy to THAT eating restaurant food and icecream and THAT absolutely insults my intelligence
That's not the whole story. I made sure to get enough protein (via my shake) and I adjusted total intake if my rate of weight loss was not where is should be. I also tried to get in some veggies, salad, and fruit (in the restaurant meal) everyday if possible (for the micros) and took a few grams of EFA oils. As I said, I can provide a complete food log for 2009 with all meals consumed.
I don't know what's so unbelievable about that, there is no scientific reason why it shouldn't be possible. Many people are following my advises already and make great progress, do you really think I would intentionally fool them into failure?
-
That's not the whole story. I made sure to get enough protein (via my shake) and I adjusted total intake if my rate of weight loss was not where is should be. I also tried to get in some veggies, salad, and fruit (in the restaurant meal) everyday if possible (for the micros) and took a few grams of EFA oils. As I said, I can provide a complete food log for 2009 with all meals consumed.
I don't know what's so unbelievable about that, there is no scientific reason why it shouldn't be possible. Many people are following my advises already and make great progress, do you really think I would intentionally fool them into failure?
no
but i think you are full of shit and trying to be special
no cardio
shitty genetics ( no offence )
no fatburners
no t3
regular meals laced with fat and sugar
the beste genetics plus drugs do cardio and diet hard to get where you got while you do it without drugs cardio WITH shitty genetics and regular food
Anyone with half a brain will laugh at you
you either diet harsh and you lie here to make it seem different, or you do eat like you do indeed but use t3 and eca or/andclen/albuterol
either way you are full of shit and I am calling you out
-
no
but i think you are full of shit and trying to be special
no cardio
shitty genetics ( no offence )
no fatburners
no t3
regular meals laced with fat and sugar
the beste genetics plus drugs do cardio and diet hard to get where you got while you do it without drugs cardio WITH shitty genetics and regular food
Anyone with half a brain will laugh at you
you either diet harsh and you lie here to make it seem different, or you do eat like you do indeed but use t3 and eca or/andclen/albuterol
either way you are full of shit and I am calling you out
LOL. As long as he keeps posting all the amazing pics of that delicious food, I don't give a shit what wavy does. :)
-
no
but i think you are full of shit and trying to be special
no cardio
shitty genetics ( no offence )
no fatburners
no t3
regular meals laced with fat and sugar
the beste genetics plus drugs do cardio and diet hard to get where you got while you do it without drugs cardio WITH shitty genetics and regular food
Anyone with half a brain will laugh at you
you either diet harsh and you lie here to make it seem different, or you do eat like you do indeed but use t3 and eca or/andclen/albuterol
either way you are full of shit and I am calling you out
What does "calling me out" mean? I provided all evidence I can provide, I won't go 24h on camera to make my point. Anyone with half a brain knows that most restrictions applied in traditional bodybuilding diets are completely unnecessary. I can guarantee you that you would get in the same condition easily following the same rules.
-
no
but i think you are full of shit and trying to be special
no cardio
shitty genetics ( no offence )
no fatburners
no t3
regular meals laced with fat and sugar
the beste genetics plus drugs do cardio and diet hard to get where you got while you do it without drugs cardio WITH shitty genetics and regular food
Anyone with half a brain will laugh at you
you either diet harsh and you lie here to make it seem different, or you do eat like you do indeed but use t3 and eca or/andclen/albuterol
either way you are full of shit and I am calling you out
I think it's possible to get in shape that way. Still I think it's the dumbest, unhealthiest and most cruel diet out there. Type-2 diabetes here we come :)
-
I think it's possible to get in shape that way. Still I think it's the dumbest, unhealthiest and most cruel diet out there. Type-2 diabetes here we come :)
Wrong on all points.
-
I think it's possible to get in shape that way. Still I think it's the dumbest, unhealthiest and most cruel diet out there. Type-2 diabetes here we come :)
u joking right?
burning fat naturally without drugs or cardio while ingesting fat, sugars, starches and hydrogenated oils
ok ::)
-
u joking right?
burning fat naturally without drugs or cardio while ingesting fat, sugars, starches and hydrogenated oils
ok ::)
Of course that's possible, if you think otherwise, provide evidence.
-
Of course that's possible, if you think otherwise, provide evidence.
I have god like genetics to burn fat and build muscle compared to you
yet..I have to diet and do cardio and naturally cannot get as shredded as you ....
yet you manage .... maybe you are smarter
or maybe you are absolutely full of shit
-
BTW, I asked one of the top experts in the field of contest prep what he thought about my method (I asked if he thought it was possible to get into my condition with it):
I love the way you look. Obviously the answer (or you would not have asked) is yes..you can get into that type of shape. I am sure, to some degree that genetics has something to do with it. Are you SURE 100% you are not using my supplements????! On a serious note, the body is what it is...if you are getting results like THAT, wow, dont change a thing. You dont need my advice. Seriously, you look great.
Thanks a lot Chris, the purpose of my question was to find out how an expert would rate the possibility of getting in this kind of shape with the method I used. I obviously don't think I'm lying, but I'm accused of it all the time.
That ok. Who cares what people really think. I never listen to the herd...but I am lways open to advice and opnions from others. I know people in the middel east who eat one meal a day, ripped full etc...AND have the energy to train hard for an hour a day...so there..:)
-
yet..I have to diet and do cardio and naturally cannot get as shredded as you ....
How do you know that exactly? What method did you use to determine that?
-
BTW, I asked one of the top experts in the field of contest prep what he thought about my method (I asked if he thought it was possible to get into my condition with it):
he was being polite to you
did you notice that the very first thing he asks you is : " are you sure you are not using any SUPPLEMENTS ;) "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Aceto knows fully well you cannot get that shredded without burners let alone on icecream and porkchops
-
he was being polite to you
did you notice that the very first thing he asks you is : " are you sure you are not using any SUPPLEMENTS ;) "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Aceto knows fully well you cannot get that shredded without burners let alone on icecream and porkchops
He also wrote me a PM saying the same thing.
He was joking about his fat burner (I think the mods changed it to "SUPPLEMENTS" afterwards because people kept complaining about his ads), because that's what he is trying to promote.
I also asked Dave Palumbo, he also agreed that it's easily possible.
-
he was being polite to you
did you notice that the very first thing he asks you is : " are you sure you are not using any SUPPLEMENTS ;) "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Aceto knows fully well you cannot get that shredded without burners let alone on icecream and porkchops
Don't think Wavelength has even stated somewhere that he wouldn't use any chemicals?
-
Don't think Wavelength has even stated somewhere that he wouldn't use any chemicals?
Yes I have multiple times. I'm a lifetime natural and have also never used a fat burner in my life.
-
What does "calling me out" mean? I provided all evidence I can provide, I won't go 24h on camera to make my point. Anyone with half a brain knows that most restrictions applied in traditional bodybuilding diets are completely unnecessary. I can guarantee you that you would get in the same condition easily following the same rules.
Can you repeat the WLDP?
-
Here is Dave Palumbos answer (not very flattering and I don't agree with the "ideal" part, but still):
Sure it's possible. It's not ideal and you seem to be very under-muscled.
-
i can understand seva's disbelief.
if it were anyone else on getbig i'd call them out on this, but i think wave is an honourable man and would not lie.
wave, to help me get this straight i have a few questions, if i may:
1. how many calories a day where you eating - every day for a week if possible?
2. what were the macronutrient ratios like?
3. what job do you do?
4. are you stating you go into that condition without cardio or weights of any kind - i include long walks and bicyle riding as cardio by the way.
5. do you drink coffee? soda etc
thanks
-
Here is Dave Palumbos answer (not very flattering and I don't agree with the "ideal" part, but still):
well science backs that once you reach the correct protein amount daily - it does not matter where the rest of the nutrients come from ( in terms of reducing bodyfat - not necessarily health). However you must have a very small appetite to be at that level of conditioning so often.
-
i can understand seva's disbelief.
if it were anyone else on getbig i'd call them out on this, but i think wave is an honourable man and would not lie.
wave, to help me get this straight i have a few questions, if i may:
1. how many calories a day where you eating - every day for a week if possible?
2. what were the macronutrient ratios like?
3. what job do you do?
4. are you stating you go into that condition without cardio or weights of any kind - i include long walks and bicyle riding as cardio by the way.
5. do you drink coffee? soda etc
thanks
1. about 1800 on weekdays and maybe double that on sundays
2. 1g protein per lb of LBM. I don't know about fat/carb ratio, I didn't watch it.
3. office job.
4. I did anaerobic training of course but no cardio. No sports other than the weight training.
5. I drink coke zero or diet coke for lunch, that's all. Couldn't care less if it would come without caffeine.
-
How do you have so much time to cook everyday?
-
well science backs that once you reach the correct protein amount daily - it does not matter where the rest of the nutrients come from ( in terms of reducing bodyfat - not necessarily health). However you must have a very small appetite to be at that level of conditioning so often.
What do you mean with so often? It was once in 2008 and once in 2009 (now).
-
How do you have so much time to cook everyday?
I don't, that was only last week because of the sodium restriction.
-
1. about 1800 on weekdays and maybe double that on sundays
2. 1g protein per lb of LBM. I don't know about fat/carb ratio, I didn't watch it.
3. office job.
4. I did anaerobic training of course but no cardio. No sports other than the weight training.
5. I drink coke zero or diet coke for lunch, that's all. Couldn't care less if it would come without caffeine.
so you took in around 140g of protein a day is this correct ?
how can you know your calorie level if you did not count carbs/fat levels dailly ?
what did your workouts look like if you had those injuries ? sets/reps/exercises?
cheers.
-
1800 calories is crazy low
-
Another top level nutritionist, Alan Aragon, also agrees 100% that the 3 simple rules of protein intake, rate of weight loss, and weight training are sufficient for fat loss. Apparently all people with less than half a brain.
-
What do you mean with so often? It was once in 2008 and once in 2009 (now).
what did you look like when you wern't in that condition ?
its difficult to believe you put on any real size if you are able to get into that level of conditioning so easily.
-
so you took in around 140g of protein a day is this correct ?
I would say in the range of 130-160. It's not that exact.
how can you know your calorie level if you did not count carbs/fat levels dailly ?
Experience. Day-to-day variations are possible of course. When I talk about calories it's only estimates. When my rate of weight loss was not where it should be, I adjusted intake the next week.
what did your workouts look like if you had those injuries ? sets/reps/exercises?
Just had to work around the pain on some exercises and reduce intensity somewhat. Other than that, simple split training, 8-12 reps. Basic exercises. I also have a complete training log besides my nutritional log.
-
my 800+ kcal Wavelenght approved dinner.
Chicken wing, rice, noodles, hamburger dressing and pepsi max in my new "ice cup" ;D
(http://i44.tinypic.com/5mekcj.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2irst51.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2zq7zg7.jpg)
The "ice cup" is probably one of the best things ever,
Keeps your drink ICE COLD for 2+ hours in a WARM room.
-
1800 calories is crazy low
Not really if you add in the pig-out day. But I'm not very physically active and I'm a tiny tit, so...
-
what did you look like when you wern't in that condition ?
its difficult to believe you put on any real size if you are able to get into that level of conditioning so easily.
Beginning of this year I looked a lot worse due to 3 months of layoff.
I didn't really put on size in 2009, just gained back what I had in 2008 (which wasn't much anyway).
And it was a 6 month, very slow recompositioning process. It was easy in terms of convenience, not in terms of speed.
-
my 800+ kcal Wavelenght approved dinner.
Chicken wing, rice, noodles, hamburger dressing and pepsi max in my new "ice cup" ;D
The "ice cup" is probably one of the best things ever,
Keeps your drink ICE COLD for 2+ hours in a WARM room.
Hahaha, but where is the meat? (edit: ah just saw it)
And you even managed to misspell my name in the pic, it's obviously a Swede original. ;D
-
you are austrian yes ?
did you live in US ?
-
you are austrian yes ?
correct
did you live in US ?
never for longer than a few weeks
-
I would say in the range of 130-160. It's not that exact.
Experience. Day-to-day variations are possible of course. When I talk about calories it's only estimates. When my rate of weight loss was not where it should be, I adjusted intake the next week.
Just had to work around the pain on some exercises and reduce intensity somewhat. Other than that, simple split training, 8-12 reps. Basic exercises. I also have a complete training log besides my nutritional log.
what was your strength like at the gym ? did you lose/maintain/gain ?
not only is it hard to believe you get that ripped eating like you do, but you also say all your carb/fats/calories is estimates.
how do you reduce calories ? if you are always estimating. 130-160 for protein is understandable and forgiveable, but when fat loss is what you are after its carbs/fats that matter.
it doesn't matter i suppose, bottom line is you look good - if it works keep doing it 8)
-
correct
never for longer than a few weeks
you don't type like an austrian who learned english in Austria ;)
I red many of your posts ....
you cannot type/talk like that unless you lived in that society
-
Hahaha, but where is the meat? (edit: ah just saw it)
And you even managed to misspell my name in the pic, it's obviously a Swede original. ;D
Damnit! ;D
-
what was your strength like at the gym ? did you lose/maintain/gain ?
I gained back most of my strength. Relatively to my bodyweight, I actually was the strongest ever at the end of the diet on some exercises (e.g. I squated over 2 times my BW for reps).
not only is it hard to believe you get that ripped eating like you do, but you also say all your carb/fats/calories is estimates.
how do you reduce calories ? if you are always estimating. 130-160 for protein is understandable and forgiveable, but when fat loss is what you are after its carbs/fats that matter.
How so? There are both low fat diets (e.g. Chris Aceto) and low carb diets (e.g. Dave Palumbo) which both work great.
I reduce calories by eating a little less (e.g. not eating soup or eating less at the chinese buffet).
-
you don't type like an austrian who learned english in Austria ;)
I red many of your posts ....
you cannot type/talk like that unless you lived in that society
Apparently I can.
-
Apparently I can.
I have always said your English (written) is astoundingly good considering you have never lived abroad. It is quite unbelievable.
-
I gained back most of my strength. Relatively to my bodyweight, I actually was the strongest ever at the end of the diet on some exercises (e.g. I squated over 2 times my BW for reps).
How so? There are both low fat diets (e.g. Chris Aceto) and low carb diets (e.g. Dave Palumbo) which both work great.
I reduce calories by eating a little less (e.g. not eating soup or eating less at the chinese buffet).
low fat/ low carb - is irrelevant as you well know.
its calories that count - calories from these two macronutrients especially when we are talking about fat loss.
1 table spoon of food can contain 10g of fat, so its extremely difficult to estimate the number of calories you are eating if going by look.
but like i said - it obviously works for you. (along with the t3/clen'/eca ;D :P )
-
I have always said your English (written) is astoundingly good considering you have never lived abroad. It is quite unbelievable.
Well I must be lying about that too then I guess.
-
I don't think Wavelength is lying, not just because he doesn't seem like that kind of person, but also because he's eating those nice meals only once a day. If he said he eats 3 or 5 meals a day like that everyday and looks the way he does, then I'd be doubtful. And I don't think that kind of diet is for everyone, cause some of us like having more muscle and enjoy eating lots, even if it means we have to do more work (cardio etc) to look anywhere near as lean, if we do look lean at all.
-
low fat/ low carb - is irrelevant as you well know.
its calories that count - calories from these two macronutrients especially when we are talking about fat loss.
1 table spoon of food can contain 10g of fat, so its extremely difficult to estimate the number of calories you are eating if going by look.
but like i said - it obviously works for you. (along with the t3/clen'/eca ;D :P )
;)
-
low fat/ low carb - is irrelevant as you well know.
its calories that count - calories from these two macronutrients especially when we are talking about fat loss.
1 table spoon of food can contain 10g of fat, so its extremely difficult to estimate the number of calories you are eating if going by look.
but like i said - it obviously works for you. (along with the t3/clen'/eca ;D :P )
I challenge everyone on this thread to start a diet like mine, following the 3 rules of protein intake, rate of weight loss, and intense weight training. If you do follow this method (all 3 rules) long enough and don't get ripped, I delete my account on getbig.
-
Well I must be lying about that too then I guess.
No, I believe you. Deine Paranoia und dein Stubenhockersein sind Beweise dafuer. ;)
-
I don't think Wavelength is lying, not just because he doesn't seem like that kind of person, but also because he's eating those nice meals only once a day. If he said he eats 3 or 5 meals a day like that everyday and looks the way he does, then I'd be doubtful. And I don't think that kind of diet is for everyone, cause some of us like having more muscle and enjoy eating lots, even if it means we have to do more work (cardio etc) to look anywhere near as lean, if we do look lean at all.
exactly
-
I challenge everyone on this thread to start a diet like mine, following the 3 rules of protein intake, rate of weight loss, and intense weight training. If you do follow this method (all 3 rules) long enough and don't get ripped, I delete my account on getbig.
can i take t3/clen/eca too ? ;D
-
fantastic conditioning, well done wavelength
-
can i take t3/clen/eca too ? ;D
no
-
no
so you are admitting it then ? ;D ;)
-
exactly
A pro couldn't eat the way you do and compete successfully, cause they'd lose a whole lot of muscle if they do. Your method is effective if your overall goal is leanness, even at the expense of muscle (and therefore, strength etc). Jenny Craig does something similar, where they award points to various food items in a chart and tell you to eat anything you want, as long as it's under the limit they've set for you, based on your weight, bodyfat percentage etc. Just another way of implementing the "Consume less calories than you need and burn the fat in your body" principle.
-
actually thinking about it - i believe dov also subscribed to the same diet as wave - with the addition of clen/winy/t3 etc.
yet wave is more ripped :-\
-
so you are admitting it then ? ;D ;)
You should know better that it's very well easily possible, it was you who provided me with some of the scientific evidence supporting my method. You will be ripped if you follow the 3 rules, 100% guaranteed.
-
A pro couldn't eat the way you do and compete successfully, cause they'd lose a whole lot of muscle if they do. Your method is effective if your overall goal is leanness, even at the expense of muscle (and therefore, strength etc). Jenny Craig does something similar, where they award points to various food items in a chart and tell you to eat anything you want, as long as it's under the limit they've set for you, based on your weight, bodyfat percentage etc. Just another way of implementing the "Consume less calories than you need and burn the fat in your body" principle.
I completely disagree with this one. My method is optimal for fat loss meaning the ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss is as good as it can be (naturally). I gained strength on my current cut. My ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss on my last cut was about 9:1.
-
fantastic conditioning, well done wavelength
thanks man!
-
actually thinking about it - i believe dov also subscribed to the same diet as wave - with the addition of clen/winy/t3 etc.
yet wave is more ripped :-\
;)
-
You should know better that it's very well easily possible, it was you who provided me with some of the scientific evidence supporting my method. You will be ripped if you follow the 3 rules, 100% guaranteed.
i do agree that it can be done.
it's just much more difficult when you estimate your levels.
-
I completely disagree with this one. My method is optimal for fat loss meaning the ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss is as good as it can be (naturally).
You might be right for natural competitors, but are you saying that a pro who competes at 250 lb onstage can get away with just one meal a day and a protein shake later, never mind the cheat day that gets factored in? Losing fat always entails losing muscle and while the overall process may be slower when dieting the traditional way (5 - 6 strict meals a day + cardio sessions), I think that process would leave the person with more muscle than if they only ate as per your schedule. Yes, you don't need 8 meals like some of them eat, but you need at least 3 or 4 solid meals a day when you are 250+ shredded at under 6 feet. What do you think?
-
I completely disagree with this one. My method is optimal for fat loss meaning the ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss is as good as it can be (naturally). I gained strength on my current cut. My ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss on my last cut was about 9:1.
i dont think its optimal. but i think the difference is probably not that noticeable. (your diet vs any other diet with equal protien and calories)
-
I completely disagree with this one. My method is optimal for fat loss meaning the ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss is as good as it can be (naturally). I gained strength on my current cut. My ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss on my last cut was about 9:1.
nonsense -
how can it be optimal when:
1. the optimal amount of protein for maintaining muscle mass during diet is yet to be determined?
2. the optimal level of calorie reduction for maximum fat loss/minimum muscle loss is yet to be determined?
3. you don't know with any certainty the levels of either protein/carbs/fats or calories you take in daily, not to mention your free for all days where you eat what you like.
your way works - yes, but optimal - no.
in all honesty i think your diet would only work for a very limited amount of people. >:(
-
You might be right for natural competitors, but are you saying that a pro who competes at 250 lb onstage can get away with just one meal a day and a protein shake later, never mind the cheat day that gets factored in? Losing fat always entails losing muscle and while the overall process may be slower when dieting the traditional way (5 - 6 strict meals a day + cardio sessions), I think that process would leave the person with more muscle than if they only ate as per your schedule. Yes, you don't need 8 meals like some of them eat, but you need at least 3 or 4 solid meals a day when you are 250+ shredded at under 6 feet. What do you think?
I was talking about your general statement of sacrificing muscle. Of course my intention is not losing weight but losing fat. If my method would not provide me with the optimal way to do that (meaning with as little muscle loss as possible), I would change it.
I can't say anything about people who use steroids or other hormones, but for naturals, body composition does not change with meal frequency. The speed of progress is solely dependent on the caloric deficit, nothing else. If this deficit is created by doing more cardio or eating less is irrelevant, so is meal frequency.
-
in all honesty i think your diet would only work for a very limited amount of people. >:(
what works for one human being is 99% of the time going to work for any other human being. it may differ slightly in the degree to which it works... but it would work in all human noentheless (with few exception)
-
nonsense -
how can it be optimal when:
1. the optimal amount of protein for maintaining muscle mass during diet is yet to be determined?
2. the optimal level of calorie reduction for maximum fat loss/minimum muscle loss is yet to be determined?
3. you don't know with any certainty the levels of either protein/carbs/fats or calories you take in daily, not to mention your free for all days where you eat what you like.
your way works - yes, but optimal - no.
in all honesty i think your diet would only work for a very limited amount of people. >:(
OK, you are right, no method is 100% optimal. But as I said, my ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss on my last cut (2008) was 9:1. I don't think it can get much better than that. In the absolute optimal case, I would have lost no muscle at all, which would have resulted in an insignificant difference of 1.5 lbs of LBM more.
-
what works for one human being is 99% of the time going to work for any other human being. it may differ slightly in the degree to which it works... but it would work in all human noentheless (with few exception)
??? are you talking about calorie restriction ?
of course that will work in 100% of the population.
i'm talking about specifically eating pork chops, ice cream, bottles of wine etc while having the will power to stop eating the plate etc, all the while estimating what calorie level you are eating.
-
what works for one human being is 99% of the time going to work for any other human being. it may differ slightly in the degree to which it works... but it would work in all human noentheless (with few exception)
This is absolutely true, at least for all essential rules.
-
I can't say anything about people who use steroids or other hormones, but for naturals, body composition does not change with meal frequency. The speed of progress is solely dependent on the caloric deficit, nothing else. If this deficit is created by doing more cardio or eating less is irrelevant, so is meal frequency.
Agree with this part. I too think the whole "eat every 3 hours religiously when the timer goes off, to keep your blood sugar levels stable" system is very overrated and unnecessary. I eat when I feel like it - always have and my gains never slowed down even after going a couple of days on just 1 or 2 meals a day.
-
i dont think its optimal. but i think the difference is probably not that noticeable. (your diet vs any other diet with equal protien and calories)
Thanks, that's what I was traing to say.
-
OK, you are right, no method is 100% optimal. But as I said, my ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss on my last cut (2008) was 9:1. I don't think it can get much better than that. In the absolute optimal case, I would have lost no muscle at all, which would have resulted in an insignificant difference of 1.5 lbs of LBM more.
i didn't mean for the angry smile above wave - i clicked the wrong one.
your diet has merit - and i adhere to similar principles myself - regarding your eat everything for a day ;D
like you say most diets will only slightly vary in overall results by a pound or 2.
-
what works for one human being is 99% of the time going to work for any other human being.
I disagree
-
i didn't mean for the angry smile above wave - i clicked the wrong one.
your diet has merit - and i adhere to similar principles myself - regarding your eat everything for a day ;D
like you say most diets will only slightly vary in overall results by a pound or 2.
Well then, when are we going to see a ripped panda?
-
Well then, when are we going to see a ripped panda?
soon ;)
i'm down 28lbs in 35 days 8)
i'm not working out at all though, but i am talking 50mg of anavar a day to try to maintain muscle.
-
soon ;)
i'm down 28lbs in 35 days 8)
i'm not working out at all though, but i am talking 50mg of anavar a day to try to maintain muscle.
why no training?
-
After Alan Aragon, Dave Palumbo, and Chris Aceto agreeing with the possibility that the method can work, I also asked Chad Nicholls. Gonna be interesting what he has to say.
-
why no training?
had to sell my home gym for cash, also was made homeless and had no job for food or gym membership :'(
started my new job now though and have cash, just no energy to train.
my diet consists of 280 g of protein a day with no carbs or fats mon-fri. then eat what i like over the weekend 8)
i'm on my feet all day at work so i'm pretty tired at the end of everyday - no carbs or fats just adds to it.
but i'm hoping after another month of diet and work i'll be much lihter and have more energy to train.
also the gyms around here are shit - my only real choices are 1 thats really close but only has machines and a maximum set of 50lb db's ::)
or a gym that has 100lb db's and a few free weight +machines but is 20m min drive. >:(
both are pretty expensive too
my home gym was beter, but i was scared i'd fall through the floor :-\
-
had to sell my home gym for cash, also was made homeless and had no job for food or gym membership :'(
started my new job now though and have cash, just no energy to train.
my diet consists of 280 g of protein a day with no carbs or fats mon-fri. then eat what i like over the weekend 8)
i'm on my feet all day at work so i'm pretty tired at the end of everyday - no carbs or fats just adds to it.
but i'm hoping after another month of diet and work i'll be much lihter and have more energy to train.
also the gyms around here are shit - my only real choices are 1 thats really close but only has machines and a maximum set of 50lb db's ::)
or a gym that has 100lb db's and a few free weight +machines but is 20m min drive. >:(
both are pretty expensive too
my home gym was beter, but i was scared i'd fall through the floor :-\
Quite a story, I hope you can settle things soon and start training again.
-
so do i ;D
-
Don`t you feel cold in that condition?
-
Don`t you feel cold in that condition?
Nah man, I was tanning in the sun today.
Maybe if it was winter I would. ;D
-
well, if you're eating one meal a day that consists of junk food how do you know how many calories you are consuming?
If I want a pepperoni pizza today or a Mcdonalds meal how will I know if it has too many calories or too little?
Its all rather confusing
-
well, if you're eating one meal a day that consists of junk food how do you know how many calories you are consuming?
If I want a pepperoni pizza today or a Mcdonalds meal how will I know if it has too many calories or too little?
Its all rather confusing
Experience. Fast food places are actually very easy, they have nutritional tables. I e.g. know that I can eat a double whopper cheese with small fries and a salad and still be in a deficit. But I normally don't go to traditional fast food restaurants during the week. Plus there is always the feedback loop via weekly weighing.
In any case, counting calories and preparing food is also OK of course, if that's more convenient.
-
I disagree
In which regard? Examples?
-
well science backs that once you reach the correct protein amount daily - it does not matter where the rest of the nutrients come from ( in terms of reducing bodyfat - not necessarily health). However you must have a very small appetite to be at that level of conditioning so often.
Why did you doubt me when I told you this a few years ago?
-
Why did you doubt me when I told you this a few years ago?
TA your approach to posting is very different to Wavelength's. You are arrogant (unjustifiably so), cocky, utterly convinced of your own rectitude and unwilling to admit error on your part. Even if half the things you post are true, your approach renders them rather unbelievable by dint of the fact that you were the one who posted them. At least, that is how I feel.
You have a good physique. That seems to be all there is to you.
-
TA your approach to posting is very different to Wavelength's. You are arrogant (unjustifiably so), cocky, utterly convinced of your own rectitude and unwilling to admit error on your part. Even if half the things you post are true, your approach renders them rather unbelievable by dint of the fact that you were the one who posted them. At least, that is how I feel.
You have a good physique. That seems to be all there is to you.
I could care less "how i come off". The fact is, if you feel inferior or have a doubt then that is from your own volition. The only person who can make you feel inadequate is yourself and this is something you do daily. Why and for what purpose, I haven`t a clue.
Side note:
"My approach" does not invalidate fact.
-
I could care less "how i come off". The fact is, if you feel inferior or have a doubt then that is from your own volition. The only person who can make you feel inadequate is yourself and this is something you do daily. Why and for what purpose, I haven`t a clue.
Side note:
"My approach" does not invalidate fact.
Like it or not, presentation is very important. WL has a very different presentation style. That's life.
-
Like it or not, presentation is very important. WL has a very different presentation style. That's life.
Again, I could care less.
-
Again, I could care less.
Then stop asking why people don't believe you. You ask why, someone answers.
-
Then stop asking why people don't believe you. You ask why, someone answers.
I did not ask you.
-
Why did you doubt me when I told you this a few years ago?
So what is the "correct" amount of protein?
-
I did not ask you.
You have asked me before, directly.
-
So what is the "correct" amount of protein?
.5 to one gram per lb of bodyweight.
-
You have asked me before, directly.
Months and months ago. You were too stupid then and blinded by dogma to realize that anyone can eat in this manner. Although you were slow on the uptake, I am glad you now realize that it is indeed possible to eat in this manner.
-
.5 to one gram per lb of bodyweight.
Bodyweight including fat?
-
Bodyweight including fat?
I have covered this in the Adonis Principles thread. Let me bump it for you.
-
lets see that ass
Oh shit! :o
-
Oh shit! :o
Hahahaha JTsunami is so gay, when he sees a homeless man lying on the street, he tries to cuddle with him.
-
Oh shit! :o
It's his way of saying hello in a thread. ;D
-
It's his way of saying hello in a thread. ;D
Caught me a little off guard my friend! :o
Brent would kill a man for saying such things to him!
-
.5 to one gram per lb of bodyweight.
.5 - 1 is too much of a range. we need more accuracy!
-
Nah, he's the funniest schmoe around, at least he's honest about it. ;D
-
.5 - 1 is too much of a range. we need more accuracy!
Just go for 1, more is no problem anyway.
-
Sevastase comes from the Swerdlow school of dieting! He has helped many gullible Romanians loose "wallet weight".
-
you don't type like an austrian who learned english in Austria ;)
I red many of your posts ....
you cannot type/talk like that unless you lived in that society
Your arguments = conjectures and gibberish as usual. Wavy-baby = certainly a little goofball from Austria.
-
Just go for 1, more is no problem anyway.
What about meals/aminos before going to bed? Did you do this?
-
What about meals/aminos before going to bed? Did you do this?
No. Doesn't matter.
-
Your arguments = conjectures and gibberish as usual. Wavy-baby = certainly a little goofball from Austria.
Sev is always right, his strongest arguments are ;) and ::). I mean who can argue against that?
-
No. Doesn't matter.
Debussbag likes your way of setting the record straight.
Very few words, the meaning is very clear, and the answer = stripped of all "baggage" (indications of your mood, the sperm in your penis ect) content normally included in communication.
Wavy-Baby almost answers these requests like a computer 8)
-
No. Doesn't matter.
So 'nighttime muscle protection' through aminos is a myth?
-
Sevastase comes from the Swerdlow school of dieting! He has helped many gullible Romanians loose "wallet weight".
LOL. Nice! ;D
-
So 'nighttime muscle protection' through aminos is a myth?
Yes.
-
Sev is always right, his strongest arguments are ;) and ::). I mean who can argue against that?
= the omnipresent premise in Spermballstaste argumentation.
His tendency of never backing up his claims by science, never counter-argumenting any science-based argument, all while using Swerdlow & Associates as his goldmine of information = astonishing :D
When he on top of that repeatedly argues that "what you are saying is an insult to my intelligence" in between his efforts based upon the aforementioned strategies and premises, then you gotta take your hat of too him :o :D :D
-
= the omnipresent premise in Spermballstaste argumentation.
His tendency of never backing up his claims by science, never counter-argumenting any science-based argument, all while using Swerdlow & Associates as his goldmine of information = astonishing :D
When he on top of that repeatedly argues that "what you are saying is an insult to my intelligence" in between his efforts based upon the aforementioned strategies and premises, then you gotta take your hat of too him :o :D :D
Well, to be fair. The gh15 gimmick takes a lot of his time. ;)
-
Yes.
Are you saying nighttime catabolism is a myth?
-
Well, to be fair. The gh15 gimmick takes a lot of his time. ;)
;)
-
Are you saying nighttime catabolism is a myth?
I say it doesn't matter for body composition if you consume your protein before bedtime or not. Everything else is just details which, although potentially true, can be canceled out by other details.
-
I am employing a low cal approach to my diet this time round. Seems to be working. I am still doing a bit of cardio though, mostly high intensity post workout. Occasional walk in the morning.
Wave, you probably already answered this, but how masny cals were you taking in per day when dieting?
-
I am employing a low cal approach to my diet this time round. Seems to be working. I am still doing a bit of cardio though, mostly high intensity post workout. Occasional walk in the morning.
Wave, you probably already answered this, but how masny cals were you taking in per day when dieting?
About 1800 on weekdays and double that (sometimes more) on Sundays.
-
About 1800 on weekdays and double that (sometimes more) on Sundays.
Cool.
-
About 1800 on weekdays and double that (sometimes more) on Sundays.
Your English is really great.
-
Your English is really great.
You want him, dontcha? ;D
-
You want him, dontcha? ;D
WL=man of wealth, power, cuts and wisdom=me envious...
-
= the omnipresent premise in Spermballstaste argumentation.
His tendency of never backing up his claims by science, never counter-argumenting any science-based argument, all while using Swerdlow & Associates as his goldmine of information = astonishing :D
When he on top of that repeatedly argues that "what you are saying is an insult to my intelligence" in between his efforts based upon the aforementioned strategies and premises, then you gotta take your hat of too him :o :D :D
::)
another youtube video is in the making right now, punk ass biatch
-
::)
another youtube video is in the making right now, punk ass biatch
Behave, or Debussey will call Swerdlow.
-
WL=man of wealth, power, cuts and wisdom=me envious...
He certainly ranks high on teh good stuff 8)
But he is taken. By a sweet lady called Duck.
She = travelling over there right now in a camo suit to avoid detection by government agents.
-
He certainly ranks high on teh good stuff 8)
But he is taken. By a sweet lady called Duck.
She = travelling over there right now in a camo suit to avoid detection by government agents.
How is Dump doing, weirdo? ;D
-
How is Dump doing, weirdo? ;D
Dump is currently travelling worldwide on official business for the D-man directorate.
-
Again, I could care less.
I think you mean you "couldn't" care less.
-
I think you mean you "couldn't" care less.
LMAO
-
And here are the pics after final carb-up and pumping up. Unfortunally, the lighting wasn't too good.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_lats_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_mm_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_side_right_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_side_left_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_legs_20090703_contest_final.jpg)
your physique reminds me of sly's in his old rambo movies :)..
-
your physique reminds me of sly's in his old rambo movies :)..
You wanna compare me to this skinny twink? ;D
(http://www.htnut.com/movies/covers/rambo3f.jpg)
-
You wanna compare me to this skinny twink? ;D
(http://www.htnut.com/movies/covers/rambo3f.jpg)
you always use good lighting with your pics.!.. you dont use the camera flash of course,.. right?..
the skinny twink you are talking about has inspired more ppl to train than any pro. bb (if we exclude arnold) ;D
-
It's official, I'm going to do exactly what you've done wavelength. I've lost almost 30 pounds (from 225, minimal if any muscle loss) but the weight loss is now slowing down. I've got a pretty good idea of your principles so far, but can you lay them out in a list one more time for everyone?
Thank you!!!
-
It's official, I'm going to do exactly what you've done wavelength. I've lost almost 30 pounds (from 225, minimal if any muscle loss) but the weight loss is now slowing down. I've got a pretty good idea of your principles so far, but can you lay them out in a list one more time for everyone? Thank you!!!
I've written an article a few months ago, which summarizes everything, I think:
The goal of a cutting diet is to improve body composition by losing fat while preserving as much muscle as possible.
Essential Rules
- Workout with weights 3 times a week.
- Drink about a gallon of water each day.
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight change is maintained.
- The rate of weight change should not be above 3lbs/week, 1-2lbs/week is recommended.
IMO, any diet (resp. cutting method) that follows the above rules is optimal for cutting, any further details will not have significant effect on body composition. If you already have a meal plan, just check if these rules are followed and adjust if not.
Measuring Progress and Adjusting Food Intake
- Weigh yourself once a week, always at the same time (e.g. right after waking up).
- Don't panic if your weight stays the same or even goes up for one or two weeks.
- If your weight does not go down for more than three weeks, slightly reduce calories.
- If your rate of weight loss is above the recommended value, slightly increase calories.
- The change in daily calories from those adjustments should not exceed 500 cals.
- After adjustment, stay on the new value for at least three weeks before adjusting again.
If you have never done a cutting diet, it's always better to start with more calories and reduce slowly until the desired rate of weight change is maintained. If you stay patient, you will not have to adjust very often. With more experience, you will not have to count calories anymore, but as a beginner it is probably a good idea.
Unessential Factors
Since many questions revolve around further details of cutting diets, here is a list of factors that I believe to be of insignificant effect for body composition:
- Cardio and fat burners,
- Meal timing and meal frequency,
- Protein / Carb / Fat distribution throughout the day,
- carb / fat ratio,
- Sodium intake,
- Moderate alcohol intake,
- Use of supplements resp. meal replacements,
- "Clean" food vs. Junk food (sugar and saturated fat).
All these factors should be used as tools to make the diet as convenient as possible. Many people e.g. have an easier time dieting with eating more calories and doing cardio or taking fat burners. Some people like myself have an easier time without cardio and fat burners. In my experience, the end result (body composition improvement) is not significantly influenced. Another example is protein supplements. I e.g. use whey powder to meet my daily protein intake out of convenience. I could just as well get all my protein from other sources. A third example is meal frequency and timing. This tool should be used to reduce hunger as much as possible throughout the day. For some people that means eating 6 times a day, for others it means eating only once or twice a day.
Psychological Tips and Tricks
- It is possible that you will not "see" changes in the mirror until your bodyfat gets rather low. Don't panic, as long as the rules are followed, everything is right on track.
- If at all, only assess your physique right after a workout. At other times it's too dependent on water retention, and the mind will play tricks on you (telling you your progress sucks, etc.).
- Have a cheat day (pig-out day) once in a while, where you eat what you want. I had one every week on my last diet. Don't feel guilty about it, as long as the rules are still followed, everything is allright.
- Don't take the whole thing too serious. It's better to not care about it so much. See it more as being the coach of another person, rather than yourself.
-
I've written an article a few months ago, which summarizes everything, I think:
The goal of a cutting diet is to improve body composition by losing fat while preserving as much muscle as possible.
Essential Rules
- Workout with weights 3 times a week.
- Drink about a gallon of water each day.
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight change is maintained.
- The rate of weight change should not be above 3lbs/week, 1-2lbs/week is recommended.
IMO, any diet (resp. cutting method) that follows the above rules is optimal for cutting, any further details will not have significant effect on body composition. If you already have a meal plan, just check if these rules are followed and adjust if not.
Measuring Progress and Adjusting Food Intake
- Weigh yourself once a week, always at the same time (e.g. right after waking up).
- Don't panic if your weight stays the same or even goes up for one or two weeks.
- If your weight does not go down for more than three weeks, slightly reduce calories.
- If your rate of weight loss is above the recommended value, slightly increase calories.
- The change in daily calories from those adjustments should not exceed 500 cals.
- After adjustment, stay on the new value for at least three weeks before adjusting again.
If you have never done a cutting diet, it's always better to start with more calories and reduce slowly until the desired rate of weight change is maintained. If you stay patient, you will not have to adjust very often. With more experience, you will not have to count calories anymore, but as a beginner it is probably a good idea.
Unessential Factors
Since many questions revolve around further details of cutting diets, here is a list of factors that I believe to be of insignificant effect for body composition:
- Cardio and fat burners,
- Meal timing and meal frequency,
- Protein / Carb / Fat distribution throughout the day,
- carb / fat ratio,
- Sodium intake,
- Moderate alcohol intake,
- Use of supplements resp. meal replacements,
- "Clean" food vs. Junk food (sugar and saturated fat).
All these factors should be used as tools to make the diet as convenient as possible. Many people e.g. have an easier time dieting with eating more calories and doing cardio or taking fat burners. Some people like myself have an easier time without cardio and fat burners. In my experience, the end result (body composition improvement) is not significantly influenced. Another example is protein supplements. I e.g. use whey powder to meet my daily protein intake out of convenience. I could just as well get all my protein from other sources. A third example is meal frequency and timing. This tool should be used to reduce hunger as much as possible throughout the day. For some people that means eating 6 times a day, for others it means eating only once or twice a day.
Psychological Tips and Tricks
- It is possible that you will not "see" changes in the mirror until your bodyfat gets rather low. Don't panic, as long as the rules are followed, everything is right on track.
- If at all, only assess your physique right after a workout. At other times it's too dependent on water retention, and the mind will play tricks on you (telling you your progress sucks, etc.).
- Have a cheat day (pig-out day) once in a while, where you eat what you want. I had one every week on my last diet. Don't feel guilty about it, as long as the rules are still followed, everything is allright.
- Don't take the whole thing too serious. It's better to not care about it so much. See it more as being the coach of another person, rather than yourself.
You are my god! :)
-
Why did you doubt me when I told you this a few years ago?
when you first mentioned this you said calories were all that mattered, i.e. protein calories were no more important than carbs or fats. ;)
.5 to one gram per lb of bodyweight.
nonsense, i've read many studies that state higher amounts are needed. a better scale is 1-1.5g ;) perhaps even 2g.
So 'nighttime muscle protection' through aminos is a myth?
no
I say it doesn't matter for body composition if you consume your protein before bedtime or not. Everything else is just details which, although potentially true, can be canceled out by other details.
this is incorrect, as i have shown you many times via studies, meal timing does have a dramatic effect on body composition and strength.
-
I've written an article a few months ago, which summarizes everything, I think:
The goal of a cutting diet is to improve body composition by losing fat while preserving as much muscle as possible.
Essential Rules
- Workout with weights 3 times a week.
- Drink about a gallon of water each day.
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight change is maintained.
- The rate of weight change should not be above 3lbs/week, 1-2lbs/week is recommended.
IMO, any diet (resp. cutting method) that follows the above rules is optimal for cutting, any further details will not have significant effect on body composition. If you already have a meal plan, just check if these rules are followed and adjust if not.
Measuring Progress and Adjusting Food Intake
- Weigh yourself once a week, always at the same time (e.g. right after waking up).
- Don't panic if your weight stays the same or even goes up for one or two weeks.
- If your weight does not go down for more than three weeks, slightly reduce calories.
- If your rate of weight loss is above the recommended value, slightly increase calories.
- The change in daily calories from those adjustments should not exceed 500 cals.
- After adjustment, stay on the new value for at least three weeks before adjusting again.
If you have never done a cutting diet, it's always better to start with more calories and reduce slowly until the desired rate of weight change is maintained. If you stay patient, you will not have to adjust very often. With more experience, you will not have to count calories anymore, but as a beginner it is probably a good idea.
Unessential Factors
Since many questions revolve around further details of cutting diets, here is a list of factors that I believe to be of insignificant effect for body composition:
- Cardio and fat burners,
- Meal timing and meal frequency,
- Protein / Carb / Fat distribution throughout the day,
- carb / fat ratio,
- Sodium intake,
- Moderate alcohol intake,
- Use of supplements resp. meal replacements,
- "Clean" food vs. Junk food (sugar and saturated fat).
All these factors should be used as tools to make the diet as convenient as possible. Many people e.g. have an easier time dieting with eating more calories and doing cardio or taking fat burners. Some people like myself have an easier time without cardio and fat burners. In my experience, the end result (body composition improvement) is not significantly influenced. Another example is protein supplements. I e.g. use whey powder to meet my daily protein intake out of convenience. I could just as well get all my protein from other sources. A third example is meal frequency and timing. This tool should be used to reduce hunger as much as possible throughout the day. For some people that means eating 6 times a day, for others it means eating only once or twice a day.
Psychological Tips and Tricks
- It is possible that you will not "see" changes in the mirror until your bodyfat gets rather low. Don't panic, as long as the rules are followed, everything is right on track.
- If at all, only assess your physique right after a workout. At other times it's too dependent on water retention, and the mind will play tricks on you (telling you your progress sucks, etc.).
- Have a cheat day (pig-out day) once in a while, where you eat what you want. I had one every week on my last diet. Don't feel guilty about it, as long as the rules are still followed, everything is allright.
- Don't take the whole thing too serious. It's better to not care about it so much. See it more as being the coach of another person, rather than yourself.
what you do works for you, but so many things on this list could be improved apon which have been proven by science ;)
-
when you first mentioned this you said calories were all that mattered, i.e. protein calories were no more important than carbs or fats. ;)
nonsense, i've read many studies that state higher amounts are needed. a better scale is 1-1.5g ;) perhaps even 2g.
no
this is incorrect, as i have shown you many times via studies, meal timing does have a dramatic effect on body composition and strength.
I can only remember one study which suggests effect of protein timing after workout.
-
what you do works for you, but so many things on this list could be improved apon which have been proven by science ;)
namely?
-
I can only remember one study which suggests effect of protein timing after workout.
there are tons showing positive effects of meal timing pre/post workout.
the one you are thinking about compared the same shake taken durectly before an afternoon/night workout to a shake in the morning.
the results were dramatic.
-
there are tons showing positive effects of meal timing pre/post workout.
the one you are thinking about compared the same shake taken durectly before an afternoon/night workout to a shake in the morning.
the results were dramatic.
According to Alan Aragon, the anabolic window after anaerobic workouts is much larger than anticipated. I wouldn't intentionally starve myself of protein after a workout and also not starve myself in general before a workout, simply because I feel stronger if I eat something before.
I am not aware of tons of studies regarding pre and post workout nutrition, do you have references?
-
when you first mentioned this you said calories were all that mattered, i.e. protein calories were no more important than carbs or fats. ;)
nonsense, i've read many studies that state higher amounts are needed. a better scale is 1-1.5g ;) perhaps even 2g.
no
this is incorrect, as i have shown you many times via studies, meal timing does have a dramatic effect on body composition and strength.
And this is precisely why you will keep beating your head against the wall.
-
namely?
my comments are in brackets.
Essential Rules
- Workout with weights 3 times a week. (do you mean the same bodypart 3x a week or a 3 way split done over a week? )
- Drink about a gallon of water each day. ( debatable - but would not agree nor disagree)
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day. (agreed, perhaps even more to be optimal)
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day. (debatable - proper multi vits/etc can provide just as much if not more health nutrients as these foods, however i would not disagree with this outright, just would not claim its a must - see ronnie coleman)
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods. (agreed)
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight change is maintained. (disagree, if i want to lose 3lbs a week, and i get to 8%bf i will lose muscle if i reduce food to maintain that loss)
- The rate of weight change should not be above 3lbs/week, 1-2lbs/week is recommended. (disagree - you can lose a lot more at the start of the diet without risk of muscle loss, certainly no more than 1-2lbs/week towards ripped territory)
Unessential Factors
Since many questions revolve around further details of cutting diets, here is a list of factors that I believe to be of insignificant effect for body composition:
- Cardio and fat burners, (how can you say these are unessential - cardio and fat burners increase metabolism)
- Meal timing and meal frequency, (meal timing when done properly this can have dramatic effects on strength and body recomposition)
- Protein / Carb / Fat distribution throughout the day, (again pre/post workout shakes have dramatic effects on body strength and recomposition)
- carb / fat ratio, (agreed)
- Sodium intake, (agreed, unless talking about peaking for a show)
- Moderate alcohol intake (agreed, but does effect health),
- Use of supplements resp. meal replacements, (agreed)
- "Clean" food vs. Junk food (sugar and saturated fat). (agreed, unles talking about health long term)
-
According to Alan Aragon, the anabolic window after anaerobic workouts is much larger than anticipated. I wouldn't intentionally starve myself of protein after a workout and also not starve myself in general before a workout, simply because I feel stronger if I eat something before.
I am not aware of tons of studies regarding pre and post workout nutrition, do you have references?
are you serious ? any simple google/pubmed search will turn up tons of pre/post workout studies.
it is not under debate at all - it has been proven.
And this is precisely why you will keep beating your head against the wall.
please explain.
-
are you serious ? any simple google/pubmed search will turn up tons of pre/post workout studies.
it is not under debate at all - it has been proven.
please explain.
From what I have understood, you have been obese now for a very long time and have tried different approaches, pretty much with mixed or failed results. This being due to a neurotic nature of second guessing and a continual search for a "holy" grail of dieting.
Some of this comes from various sources and I have verified some of it on other boards you have posted on. Some of course, may be wrong so here is your chance to clear the air.
What progress or success, if any, have you achieved? What methods have you tried and used? Why do you think you do not look the way you wish and what can you do differently to attain your goal?
I am not trying to belittle you, instead I am wishing to gain some perspective through your personal insight so please do not take this post in the wrong manner.
-
End of the day, TA and Wavelength have both got into great shape following this method. Fatpanda, I'm not trying to take sides, but have you ever been in the kind of shape that either of these gentlemen are/have been in? I've started my cutting diet as of two days ago and I am following these principles yet again. I'm eating between 100-150grams of protein a day, depending on the food I take in and as many carbs and fats as necessary to meet my planned calorie needs. I like to think of my calories as one big number for a whole week, then break it down into segments as necessary, depending on variables such as location, hunger and what I'm craving at that particular time. So, if for example I take in 1000 calories one day and then 4000 the next, it wouldn't matter as long as the rest of the week my calories balance out for the week. I think both of these guys are right on the money when it comes to dieting, for a natural and even for a juiced bodybuilder, I just think that protein requirements would need to be adjusted depending on dosages etc.
-
From what I have understood, you have been obese now for a very long time and have tried different approaches, pretty much with mixed or failed results. This being due to a neurotic nature of second guessing and a continual search for a "holy" grail of dieting.
Some of this comes from various sources and I have verified some of it on other boards you have posted on. Some of course, may be wrong so here is your chance to clear the air.
What progress or success, if any, have you achieved? What methods have you tried and used? Why do you think you do not look the way you wish and what can you do differently to attain your goal?
I am not trying to belittle you, instead I am wishing to gain some perspective through your personal insight so please do not take this post in the wrong manner.
i'll answer this quickly as i have to leave in a few mins. i will address this in greater detail tomorrow.
i have been as heavy as 280lbs and as light as 145 lbs - at 280 i had lots of fat and muscle - classic powerlifter type phyique, at 145lbs i was not as ripped as wave nor adonis have reached, but certainly slim with muscle. i could se abs, but never achieved a '6 pack'.
adonis you are correct i am borderline obsessive compulsive when i read about diet/nutrition/drugs and training and have indeed been searching for the holy grail as you put it.
i am also very much like yourself in terms of experimentation in diet/training and ped use.
i now feel i have all the knowledge required and have indeed found the holy grail in terms of the areas mentioned above. i simply lack the desire/hunger and willpower to apply it all at the moment, not to mention the problems i have been facing over the past few months.
i fully respect and admire both yourself and wave for the results and intellect you both possess and share.
talk later.
-
- Workout with weights 3 times a week. (do you mean the same bodypart 3x a week or a 3 way split done over a week? )
Every bodypart at least once a week.
- Drink about a gallon of water each day. ( debatable - but would not agree nor disagree)
The amount is more than enough in my opinon, most people want an amount, that's why I put it here.
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day. (agreed, perhaps even more to be optimal)
That's at least my experience.
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day. (debatable - proper multi vits/etc can provide just as much if not more health nutrients as these foods, however i would not disagree with this outright, just would not claim its a must - see ronnie coleman)
Agreed, it's only essential if you do not take multi vits. Should probably say "... or supplement accordingly". Wanted to make it as basic as possible though.
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight change is maintained. (disagree, if i want to lose 3lbs a week, and i get to 8%bf i will lose muscle if i reduce food to maintain that loss)
- The rate of weight change should not be above 3lbs/week, 1-2lbs/week is recommended. (disagree - you can lose a lot more at the start of the diet without risk of muscle loss, certainly no more than 1-2lbs/week towards ripped territory)
I agree, I left out the part about slowing down with weight loss in very low BF regions to not make the guide too complicated. In any case, I think that's highly dependent on genetics. I always recommend to watch strength in the gym as an indicator for muscle loss. If strength goes down, the rate of weight loss should be adjusted to smaller values.
- Cardio and fat burners, (how can you say these are unessential - cardio and fat burners increase metabolism)
The question is, do they improve body composition when total intake is adjusted for the same rate of weight loss. In my experience (at least with cardio) that's not the case. Can't speak for non-otc "fat burners" though, that's not what I meant.
- Meal timing and meal frequency, (meal timing when done properly this can have dramatic effects on strength and body recomposition)
- Protein / Carb / Fat distribution throughout the day, (again pre/post workout shakes have dramatic effects on body strength and recomposition)
Meal timing around workouts is addressed in an FAQ section which I didn't copy here. In my experience, if you eat enough before the workout to feel strong enough and not intentionally starve yourself of protein after the workout, you're fine. But I also sometimes not even did that and couldn't notice a significant difference.
- Sodium intake, (agreed, unless talking about peaking for a show)
Of course, it's not a prep guide.
-
are you serious ? any simple google/pubmed search will turn up tons of pre/post workout studies.
it is not under debate at all - it has been proven.
Yes I am serious. The last time I asked you, you could produce this one study I was talking about. You seem very confident that there are tons of other studies on body composition that show effect of pre and post workout nutrition. I would asume that you have them at hand if you are that confident. Not trying to bash you at all, I'm just curious.
-
i'll answer this quickly as i have to leave in a few mins. i will address this in greater detail tomorrow.
i have been as heavy as 280lbs and as light as 145 lbs - at 280 i had lots of fat and muscle - classic powerlifter type phyique, at 145lbs i was not as ripped as wave nor adonis have reached, but certainly slim with muscle. i could se abs, but never achieved a '6 pack'.
adonis you are correct i am borderline obsessive compulsive when i read about diet/nutrition/drugs and training and have indeed been searching for the holy grail as you put it.
i am also very much like yourself in terms of experimentation in diet/training and ped use.
i now feel i have all the knowledge required and have indeed found the holy grail in terms of the areas mentioned above. i simply lack the desire/hunger and willpower to apply it all at the moment, not to mention the problems i have been facing over the past few months.
i fully respect and admire both yourself and wave for the results and intellect you both possess and share.
talk later.
I think once you relax your approach and let your obsessiveness subside and dissolve, you will get to EXACTLY where you wish to be.
I think THAT is your only block. I think that is the block for nearly everyone. The second guessing and obsessiveness only serve to drive one in a circuitous route. We all have been there at one point and the real trick is veering off this oval. Once you do that and set the cruise control with whatever approach you decide, you will succeed.
I know you can succeed easily.
-
i fully respect and admire both yourself and wave for the results and intellect you both possess and share.
talk later.
I respect your knowledge and you have been helpful in the past. I just can't write anything in my guide that doesn't match my experience. But I'm always open for new information and suggestions. I actually was thinking about changing the part about nutritional timing around workouts a bit, also after having read Alan's guide to pre- and post-workout nutrition.
-
I respect your knowledge and you have been helpful in the past. I just can't write anything in my guide that doesn't match my experience. But I'm always open for new information and suggestions. I actually was thinking about changing the part about nutritional timing around workouts a bit, also after having read Alan's guide to pre- and post-workout nutrition.
Debussey thinks you run a chain of porno-stores in Austria.
-
Debussey thinks you run a chain of porno-stores in Austria.
Damn I underestimated you data mining skillz. ;D
-
Damn I underestimated you data mining skillz. ;D
;D
Debussey does not data-mine about Getbig at all. Debussey has even deleted all the funny Getbig pics from its computer.
You just give off the "Hans Schnabel from the porno store" vibe.
-
adonis you are correct i am borderline obsessive compulsive when i read about diet/nutrition/drugs and training and have indeed been searching for the holy grail as you put it.
seriously, what is this holy grail?
you mean, their is something besides efficent/effective workouts and sound diet/lifestyle changes?
-
You just give off the "Hans Schnabel from the porno store" vibe.
you're such a charming guy
-
you're such a charming guy
In real world, Duck hears that quite a lot. It has something to do with that somewhat slick smile that sometimes come up, while never putting all her cards on the table = keeping a bit of mystery around her ;D ;)
-
In real world, Duck hears that quite a lot. It has something to do with that somewhat slick smile that sometimes come up, while never putting all her cards on the table = keeping a bit of mystery around her ;D ;)
LOL. Always keep 'em wanting more. You slut! ;D
-
LOL. Always keep 'em wanting more. You slut! ;D
Of course, Duck = Duck, and Debussey = Debussey.
It must be said that Duck is also 215 pounds and her circle of friends = a bunch of computer nerds that pass her on to the next after being "done" with her. They say anything to get her in the mood, so what she claims = nothing like what = the truth. They want nothing to do with her after the 5 seconds = over :-X
Duck = now on her way to Austria, thinking she = a secret agent. ::)
Debussey has no friends, is a lonely inmate in a mental institution and plagued with inferior genetics >:(
-
In real world, Duck hears that quite a lot. It has something to do with that somewhat slick smile that sometimes come up, while never putting all her cards on the table = keeping a bit of mystery around her ;D ;)
It's always best to keep a fog of mystery around oneself.
-
It's always best to keep a fog of mystery around oneself.
LOL. What are you, Houdini!?
-
It's always best to keep a fog of mystery around oneself.
Especially if you have a lot of interesting things to offer (things that are not seen very often by normal people) once you reward the people interested in getting to know more about you with some hints about who you are and what you are capable of.
Just make them work a bit before they get to know more.
-
Keep it up, wavelength ;D
-
LOL. What are you, Houdini!?
Nah, it's a quote that came to mind, I think it's from a Carlos Castanada book.
-
Nah, it's a quote that came to mind, I think it's from a Carlos Castanada book.
Haha. The Yaqui way. Yeah I smoked a lot of dope and read those books in high school. Good times.
-
What is it with Getbig and drug addicts? First Gothboy comes out of the closet and reveals his Xanax dependency, then Dr.Chimps talks about his High School drug problems.
:-X
-
Haha. The Yaqui way. Yeah I smoked a lot of dope and read those books in high school. Good times.
I think his teacher, Don Juan said that one must always surround himself with a fog of mystery with the final goal to delete his personal history not only for others but ultimately also for himself.
-
What is it with Getbig and drug addicts? First Gothboy comes out of the closet and reveals his Xanax dependency, then Dr.Chimps talks about his High School drug problems.
:-X
LOL. Monster projection, Db. No problems, whatsoever, just fun times. You should look into them some day.
-
LOL. Monster projection, Db. No problems, whatsoever, just fun times. You should look into them some day.
Are you saying that Debussey's dependence on Prozac, chips and Valium prescribed by the psychologist at the mental institution means that Debussey = a drug addict? :'(
-
LOL. Monster projection, Db. No problems, whatsoever, just fun times. You should look into them some day.
How old are you chimpsey if you don't mind me asking?
-
Keep it up, wavelength ;D
Thanks man, great avi BTW, is it made of Alex Grey's pictures?
-
How old are you chimpsey if you don't mind me asking?
Old enough to buy a rocking chair.
-
Are you saying that Debussey's dependence on Prozac, chips and Valium prescribed by the psychologist at the mental institution means that Debussey = a drug addict? :'(
No, but you seem to like to see others ideas/experiences of fun' as transversive or to be dismissed. You really need to get into yourself, be honest, and give real expression to what would make you truly happy. :)
-
Old enough to buy a rocking chair.
Like Jack Benny, I'm 39! 8)
-
No, but you seem to like to see others ideas/experiences of fun' as transversive or to be dismissed. You really need to get into yourself, be honest, and give real expression to what would make you truly happy. :)
Debussey = at loss of words ;D
-
Like Jack Benny, I'm 39! 8)
You're a kid! Why do they always treat you like you're 100 years old here?
-
Debussey = at loss of words ;D
Well, chances are...whatever it is...there's a community out there waiting for ya. Go find it. :)
-
Well, chances are...whatever it is...there's a community out there waiting for ya. Go find it. :)
Debussey has no community >:( Debussey = a lone wolf with no friends :'(
-
Debussey has no community >:( Debussey = a lone wolf with no friends :'(
There ya go again - relapsing! >:(
-
There ya go again - relapsing! >:(
Try socializing when you're dumb as dirt, bound to a wheelchair and stuck in a closed cell at a mental asylum while being pumped full of drugs >:(
-
So regarding Sev's "half a brain" comment, I asked one of the top nutritionists in the world, Alan Aragon about it:
A question for Alan Aragon, if you have a few minutes to spare. I'm again being accused of lying about my diet resp. having taken "t3 and eca or/and clen/albuterol".
The argument is that my "regular meals laced with fat and sugar" and my "****ty genetics" without drugs and cardio can never get me into the condition displayed in the pics.
"Burning fat naturally without drugs or cardio while ingesting fat, sugars, starches and hydrogenated oils" is allegedly impossible.
The conclusion finally is that "anyone with half a brain will laugh at me" for my claims of doing it the way I have described.
Since I assume you are someone with at least half a brain, I would like you to comment on these points, maybe with a little scientific background and/or experience you have with some of your clients.
Do people really give you sh!t about your results because they weren't achieved with clean foods? That's funny, especially considering that people don't realize that "clean" is a subjective term. One thing to remember is that most people simply do not have a fundamental understanding of human physiology. Did you eat at a caloric deficit? Yes. Did your protein intake and training regimen support LBM retention or at least minimize LBM loss? Yes...... I honestly don't see what's so fcking difficult for naysayers to understand about that.
At my absolute leanest, I ate a pint of hagen daaz every single night right before bed. I also did not have a car at the time, so I biked to school & work. I was running a caloric defricit, so I got lean. The people who give you who give you sh!t are the same brotards who will spend $$$$ on completely useless supps, so we can laugh at them together.
-
Try socializing when you're dumb as dirt, bound to a wheelchair and stuck in a closed cell at a mental asylum while being pumped full of drugs >:(
Now, you're dissembling and being obfuscatory. You need to find your inner Duck! ;D
-
Like Jack Benny, I'm 39! 8)
You are younger than I thought you were. Maybe you meant to say you were born in 39? ;D
-
Now, you're dissembling and being obfuscatory. You need to find your inner Duck! ;D
Duck is a whore >:(
-
So regarding Sev's "half a brain" comment, I asked one of the top nutritionists in the world, Alan Aragon about it:
I need to go back and repost this response to my naysayers that I have had for years. lol
I would hate to dig through the hundreds and hundreds of topics on this in an attempt to vindicate their ignorance. Of course I think it would be futile as their dogmatic minds are not so apt to change in lieu of all testimony and evidence even.
-
I need to go back and repost this response to my naysayers that I have had for years. lol
I would hate to dig through the hundreds and hundreds of topics on this in an attempt to vindicate their ignorance. Of course I think it would be futile as their dogmatic minds are not so apt to change in lieu of all testimony and evidence even.
Haha, it's funny, you just have to listen to people who actually know something about nutrition, it's really that easy.
-
Haha, it's funny, you just have to listen to people who actually know something about nutrition, it's really that easy.
::)
fucking punk ass biatch, youtube video coming up
-
::)
fucking punk ass biatch, youtube video coming up
I know that you have been living in the US for at least two years to speak such accent free ghetto. It took me one year and I have god-like genetics for accent free ghetto talk. ;)
-
I know that you have been living in the US for at least two years to speak such accent free ghetto. It took me one year and I have god-like genetics for accent free ghetto talk. ;)
::)
you dont speak english as if you grew up in austria,, getting fucking english like that growing up on schnitzels and hydrogenated oils... ,, what youre saying is an insult to my intelligence ::)
-
::)
you dont speak english as if you grew up in austria,, getting fucking english like that growing up on schnitzels and hydrogenated oils... ,, what youre saying is an insult to my intelligence ::)
LOL. Next time try to throw in the word 'lederhosen' in your next rant. Can't go wrong with that one. :D
-
LOL. Next time try to throw in the word 'lederhosen' in your next rant. Can't go wrong with that one. :D
Considering Wavelengths ownership of a porn-store chain in Austria, that word would be suitable 8)
And please help Debussey out: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=288925.0
:'(
-
::)
you dont speak english as if you grew up in austria,, getting fucking english like that growing up on schnitzels and hydrogenated oils... ,, what youre saying is an insult to my intelligence ::)
::) ::) ::)
How about that you moron, I cut off my testicles if you can speak fuckin ghetto like that without having lived in the US for at least 10 years, punk!
I'm calling you out B.S. Supreme with your apenis principles trying to be special. ;)
-
::) ::) ::)
How about that you moron, I cut off my testicles if you can speak fuckin ghetto like that without having lived in the US for at least 10 years, punk!
I'm calling you out B.S. Supreme with your apenis principles trying to be special. ;)
Writing is always deceptive. Maybe your spoken English is really bad compared to your writing. Who knows?
-
::) ::) ::)
How about that you moron, I cut off my testicles if you can speak fuckin ghetto like that without having lived in the US for at least 10 years, punk!
I'm calling you out B.S. Supreme with your apenis principles trying to be special. ;)
if this is an attempt to show you can write in english ghetto slang with out seeming like a foreigner, you failed miserably.
-
if this is an attempt to show you can write in english ghetto slang with out seeming like a foreigner, you failed miserably.
you may have missed the point here "tbombz"
actually you made my point ;D
-
if this is an attempt to show you can write in english ghetto slang with out seeming like a foreigner, you failed miserably.
Youz a ghetto bastard...
-
you may have missed the point here "tbombz"
Fuck, haha, Debussey laughed out loud when reading "TSperms" post ;D
Writing is always deceptive. Maybe your spoken English is really bad compared to your writing. Who knows?
Absolutely. Gaining an understanding of grammar, syntax and common ways to phrase onself in a language differs a lot from the ability to vocalize ones thoughts in a language without sounding like a moron. Somewhat different skills = required.
-
so what were you two talking about then ?
-
so what were you two talking about then ?
Look at the posts on this page. It ain't that hard to figure out ;D
-
so what were you two talking about then ?
just a little harmless fun with someone we secretly admire
-
BTW, here is a little background info on Alan Aragon:
Alan Aragon has over 15 years of success in the fitness field. He earned his Bachelor and Master of Science in Nutrition with top honors. Alan is a continuing education provider for the Commission on Dietetic Registration, National Academy of Sports Medicine, American Council on Exercise, and National Strength & Conditioning Association. Alan recently lectured to clinicians at the FDA and the annual conference of the Los Angeles Dietetic Association. He maintains a private practice designing programs for recreational, Olympic, and professional athletes, including the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Alan is a contributing editor to Men's Health magazine, where he has a monthly column called "Ask The Weight Loss Coach".
-
just a little harmless fun with someone we secretly admire
Spot on :D
::)
;D
-
Absolutely. Gaining an understanding of grammar, syntax and common ways to phrase onself in a language differs a lot from the ability to vocalize ones thoughts in a language without sounding like a moron. Somewhat different skills = required.
Not to mention that with writing, you can take time to edit your post(s), just like you can take the time to come up with a great or "perfect" response. But when you're talking, you get no such slack.
-
BTW, here is a little background info on Alan Aragon:
Alan Aragon has over 15 years of success in the fitness field. He earned his Bachelor and Master of Science in Nutrition with top honors. Alan is a continuing education provider for the Commission on Dietetic Registration, National Academy of Sports Medicine, American Council on Exercise, and National Strength & Conditioning Association. Alan recently lectured to clinicians at the FDA and the annual conference of the Los Angeles Dietetic Association. He maintains a private practice designing programs for recreational, Olympic, and professional athletes, including the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Alan is a contributing editor to Men's Health magazine, where he has a monthly column called "Ask The Weight Loss Coach".
A summa cum laude graduate with credentials like that? Sounds like a bright fellow that knows his stuff.
::)
-
Not to mention that with writing, you can take time to edit your post(s), just like you can take the time to come up with a great or "perfect" response. But when you're talking, you get no such slack.
Good point.
But: how many people actually do it? Debussey does not even read through its posts after writing them before posting, but its not like you can improve much on them with a mental retardation anyway :-X
-
::) ::) ::)
How about that you moron, I cut off my testicles if you can speak fuckin ghetto like that without having lived in the US for at least 10 years, punk!
I'm calling you out B.S. Supreme with your apenis principles trying to be special. ;)
LOL, the flak I used to have to endure regarding the "apenis" principles. LOLOL
-
LOL, the flak I used to have to endure regarding the "apenis" principles. LOLOL
You should receive more credit for being one of the few people here with actual knowledge on nutrition.
-
ahhh... i had to go way back about 10 pages or so... immitating sevastase... gotcha
-
ahhh... i had to go way back about 10 pages or so... immitating sevastase... gotcha
Youz da guy...
-
ahhh... i had to go way back about 10 pages or so... immitating sevastase... gotcha
Good discovery champ 8)
-
So here are the pics, all from Friday, first one was shot in the morning:
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_triceps_20090703_morning_final.jpg)
The next one at noon, was pretty dry by then:
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_abs_20090703_noon_final.jpg)
Next two in the afternoon, I probably was the driest there
(leg pic to show that I actually had some veins in the legs):
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_legs_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
wow, you look incredible.. very lean. I will look into your dietary habits.
-
wow, you look incredible.. very lean. I will look into your dietary habits.
Thanks man, they are described here:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=288510.msg4095786#msg4095786
-
Looking awesome bro !!!!!
good job !
-
Looking awesome bro !!!!!
good job !
Thanks Stavi, when can be expect pics of your chiseled physique?
-
Wavelength,
Your food pictures look pretty damn appetizing. Are you a recreational chef as well as bodybuilder?
-
Wavelength,
Your food pictures look pretty damn appetizing. Are you a recreational chef as well as bodybuilder?
No. He just frequents dining establishments that serve cardboard-pizza. >:(
-
Thanks Stavi, when can be expect pics of your chiseled physique?
not for a while bro !
I am concentrating more on powerlifting these days for 2-3 years, trying to get stronger and get a bit of thickness on my physique !
-
not for a while bro !
I am concentrating more on powerlifting these days for 2-3 years, trying to get stronger and get a bit of thickness on my physique !
Will you up your previous dose-record of 2g/test per week to gain teh power? :D
-
Will you up your previous dose-record of 2g/test per week to gain teh power? :D
well, it's weird but my strenght never goes down when I get off cycle and I can still get a bit stronger even then.
even if I lose a bit of muscle.
so no :)
right now I use 1g test and 200mg deca
-
well, it's weird but my strenght never goes down when I get off cycle and I can still get a bit stronger even then.
even if I lose a bit of muscle.
so no :)
right now I use 1g test and 200mg deca
Living the dream! :D
Why dontcha go hard on the roids like the powerlifters? Load up on a bit of halo, anadrol and cheque drops and compete in a powerlifting meet? :D
-
well, it's weird but my strenght never goes down when I get off cycle and I can still get a bit stronger even then.
even if I lose a bit of muscle.
so no :)
right now I use 1g test and 200mg deca
Awesome!
How many needles do you need for that per week?
-
Wavelength,
Your food pictures look pretty damn appetizing. Are you a recreational chef as well as bodybuilder?
LOL! Nah, just a mediocre hobby cook.
I should cook more often because I really enjoy it, I'm just too damn lazy.
In this case I had to cook all meals since I restricted sodium the last week.
-
LOL! Nah, just a mediocre hobby cook.
I should cook more often because I really enjoy it, I'm just too damn lazy.
In this case I had to cook all meals since I restricted sodium the last week.
For a king of the world, you're pretty humble. 8)
-
I have god like genetics to burn fat and build muscle compared to you
that's funny shit coming from a druggie
-
Awesome!
How many needles do you need for that per week?
3
-
Living the dream! :D
Why dontcha go hard on the roids like the powerlifters? Load up on a bit of halo, anadrol and cheque drops and compete in a powerlifting meet? :D
well I will never be very strong, but I am going back to school this fall so I wont have time for a lot of training and I tought concentring on powerlifting for that time would be good for my strenght and also for my physique
-
well I will never be very strong, but I am going back to school this fall so I wont have time for a lot of training and I tought concentring on powerlifting for that time would be good for my strenght and also for my physique
What are you studying?
-
well I will never be very strong, but I am going back to school this fall so I wont have time for a lot of training and I tought concentring on powerlifting for that time would be good for my strenght and also for my physique
The massage thing didnt work out? ;D
-
TA your approach to posting is very different to Wavelength's. You are arrogant (unjustifiably so), cocky, utterly convinced of your own rectitude and unwilling to admit error on your part. Even if half the things you post are true, your approach renders them rather unbelievable by dint of the fact that you were the one who posted them.
so you guys are brothers huh (http://www.naturalmastersbodybuilding.com/laf.gif)
-
The massage thing didnt work out? ;D
nop I didn't do that for long.
too many guys and I didn't make enough cash also
-
nop I didn't do that for long.
too many #### and I didn't make enough cash also
What will you study? The same as Haider/Fagger/Spermer? (Cock-biology)
-
nop I didn't do that for long.
too many #### and I didn't make enough cash also
You should ask Bob Chick for dick sucking pointers. Your tips would probably go through the roof.
-
What will you study? The same as Haider/Fagger/Spermer? (Cock-biology)
not big studies, the program is called "specialized education"
lot of opportunities in that area because basicaly, the educators in the school are all women and the population is tired of it because they have no authority over the kids.
so if you are a man you are hired right away and you have a better salary too because you will have more important positions
-
not big studies, the program is called "specialized education"
lot of opportunities in that area because basicaly, the educators in the school are all women and the population is tired of it because they have no authority over the kids.
so if you are a man you are hired right away and you have a better salary too because you will have more important positions
Spermios = a teacher?! :D If you're the right type of person, you'll probably love the job.
But the kids are sure gonna be hung up about your roiders physique ;D
-
Spermios = a teacher?! :D If you're the right type of person, you'll probably love the job.
But the kids are sure gonna be hung up about your roiders physique ;D
yeah I am sure I will love it !
22 is a bit old to go back to school but until now I didn't know what I wanted to do in life and I didn't want to go to college without any motivation
-
yeah I am sure I will love it !
22 is a bit old to go back to school but until now I didn't know what I wanted to do in life and I didn't want to go to college without any motivation
22 = old? Not at all.
-
yeah I am sure I will love it !
22 is a bit old to go back to school but until now I didn't know what I wanted to do in life and I didn't want to go to college without any motivation
You're never too old to go back to school. And 22 is nothing.
-
You're never too old to go back to school. And 22 is nothing.
Finally a person that get's it.
-
Finally a person that get's it.
I know very successful people who have gotten their education later in life.
It's probably even an advantage because you know better what you really like to do.
-
I know very successful people who have gotten their education later in life.
It's probably even an advantage because you know better what you really like to do.
Absolutely. Doing what you like to do will probably yield more total payoffs financially and mentally, even if you start out 10+ years later.
-
I know very successful people who have gotten their education later in life.
It's probably even an advantage because you know better what you really like to do.
yeah that's why I waited a few years, going to college without being really certain about what you want to do didn'T seem like a good idea to me
-
yeah that's why I waited a few years, going to college without being really certain about what you want to do didn'T seem like a good idea to me
Wise words.
-
Yes I am serious. The last time I asked you, you could produce this one study I was talking about. You seem very confident that there are tons of other studies on body composition that show effect of pre and post workout nutrition. I would asume that you have them at hand if you are that confident. Not trying to bash you at all, I'm just curious.
yes the study you are talking about was the study that compared taking a pro/carb/creatine shake directly before the afternoon w/o with taking it in the morning - with the total daily calories staying equal.
it showed without doubt how effective timing is, as you claimed daily calories were all that mattered, not timing.
Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy.
Cribb PJ, Hayes A.
Exercise Metabolism Unit, Center for Ageing, Rehabilitation, Exercise and Sport; and the School of Biomedical Sciences, Victoria University, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
PURPOSE: Some studies report greater muscle hypertrophy during resistance exercise (RE) training from supplement timing (i.e., the strategic consumption of protein and carbohydrate before and/or after each workout). However, no studies have examined whether this strategy provides greater muscle hypertrophy or strength development compared with supplementation at other times during the day. The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program. METHODS: In a single-blind, randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups; the PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 g x kg(-1) body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after RE. The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening. All assessments were completed the week before and after 10 wk of structured, supervised RE training. Assessments included strength (1RM, three exercises), body composition (DEXA), and vastus lateralis muscle biopsies for determination of muscle fiber type (I, IIa, IIx), cross-sectional area (CSA), contractile protein, creatine (Cr), and glycogen content. RESULTS: PRE-POST demonstrated a greater (P < 0.05) increase in lean body mass and 1RM strength in two of three assessments. The changes in body composition were supported by a greater (P < 0.05) increase in CSA of the type II fibers and contractile protein content. PRE-POST supplementation also resulted in higher muscle Cr and glycogen values after the training program (P < 0.05). CONCLUSION: Supplement timing represents a simple but effective strategy that enhances the adaptations desired from RE-training.
that study pdf also had 2 other studies showing how effective pre/post drinks are.
i have loads on my external hard drive but here is a few a got on a simple pubmed search.
Nutritional supplementation and resistance exercise: what is the evidence for enhanced skeletal muscle hypertrophy?Gibala MJ.
Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON L8S 4K1.
Many athletes and recreational weightlifters believe that dietary manipulations' either following a single bout of resistance exercise or during habitual training may augment the normal gains in muscle fibre hypertrophy. Very few studies, however, have directly examined the effect of nutritional supplementation on muscle protein metabolism after resistance exercise. Ingestion of an amino acid and/or carbohydrate solution during the initial hours following a single bout of resistance exercise promotes an acute increase in protein net balance compared to the fasted state. The precise mechanism involved has not been elucidated but seems related to an increased availability of intracellular amino acids and/or an increase in plasma insulin concentration. As a practical recommendation, therefore, postexercise feeding appears to be very important. Recent evidence suggests that creatine supplementation in conjunction with resistance training may elicit larger increases in muscle fiber cross-sectional area compared to training alone. This intervention may be most beneficial in persons with "compromised" skeletal muscle.
Nutrient administration and resistance training.Kerksick CM, Leutholtz B.
Exercise and Sport Nutrition Laboratory, Center for Exercise, Nutrition and Preventive Health Research, Department of Health, Human Performance and Recreation, Baylor University. Chad_Kerksick@baylor.edu.
ABSTRACT : Skeletal muscle tissue is tightly regulated throughout our bodies by balancing its synthesis and breakdown. Many factors are known to exist that cause profound changes on the overall status of skeletal muscle, some of which include exercise, nutrition, hormonal influences and disease. Muscle hypertrophy results when protein synthesis is greater than protein breakdown. Resistance training is a popular form of exercise that has been shown to increase muscular strength and muscular hypertrophy. In general, resistance training causes a stimulation of protein synthesis as well as an increase in protein breakdown, resulting in a negative balance of protein. Providing nutrients, specifically amino acids, helps to stimulate protein synthesis and improve the overall net balance of protein. Strategies to increase the concentration and availability of amino acids after resistance exercise are of great interest and have been shown to effectively increase overall protein synthesis. 123 After exercise, providing carbohydrate has been shown to mildly stimulate protein synthesis while addition of free amino acids prior to and after exercise, specifically essential amino acids, causes a rapid pronounced increase in protein synthesis as well as protein balance.13 Evidence exists for a dose-response relationship of infused amino acids while no specific regimen exists for optimal dosing upon ingestion. Ingestion of whole or intact protein sources (e.g., protein powders, meal-replacements) has been shown to cause similar improvements in protein balance after resistance exercise when compared to free amino acid supplements. Future research should seek to determine optimal dosing of ingested intact amino acids in addition to identifying the cellular mechanistic machinery (e.g. transcriptional and translational mechanisms) for causing the increase in protein synthesis.
A creatine-protein-carbohydrate supplement enhances responses to resistance training.Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Hayes A.
Exercise Metabolism Unit, Center for Ageing, Rehabilitation, Exercise and Sport and School of Biomedical Sciences, Victoria University, Victoria, Australia.
PURPOSE: Studies attributing gains in strength and lean body mass (LBM) to creatine monohydrate (CrM) during resistance exercise (RE) training have not assessed these changes alongside cellular and subcellular adaptations. Additionally, CrM-treated groups have seldom been compared with a group receiving a placebo similar in nitrogen and energy. The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of a CrM-containing protein-carbohydrate (PRO-CHO) supplement in comparison with a supplement containing a similar amount of nitrogen and energy on body composition, muscle strength, fiber-specific hypertrophy, and contractile protein accrual during RE training. METHODS: In a double-blind, randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of three groups: protein (PRO), PRO-CHO, or the same PRO-CHO supplement (1.5 g x kg(-1) body weight x d(-1)) containing CrM (Cr-PRO-CHO) (0.1 g x kg(-1) body weight x d(-1)). Assessments were completed the week before and after a 10-wk structured, supervised RE program: strength (1RM, three exercises), body composition (DEXA), and vastus lateralis muscle biopsies for determination of muscle fiber type (I, IIa, IIx), cross-sectional area (CSA), contractile protein, and creatine content. RESULTS: Cr-PRO-CHO provided greater improvements in 1RM strength. At least 40% of the strength improvements could be attributed to hypertrophy of muscle involved in this exercise. Cr-PRO-CHO also resulted in greater increases in LBM, fiber CSA, and contractile protein compared with PRO and PRO-CHO. CONCLUSIONS: In RE-trained participants, supplementation with Cr-PRO-CHO provided greater muscle hypertrophy than an equivalent dose of PRO-CHO, and this response was apparent at three levels of physiology (LBM, fiber CSA, and contractile protein content).
International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: nutrient timing.Kerksick C, Harvey T, Stout J, Campbell B, Wilborn C, Kreider R, Kalman D, Ziegenfuss T, Lopez H, Landis J, Ivy JL, Antonio J.
Department of Health and Exercise Science, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK 73019, USA. Chad_Kerksick@ou.edu.
Position Statement: The position of the Society regarding nutrient timing and the intake of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats in reference to healthy, exercising individuals is summarized by the following eight points: 1.) Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d), and ingestion of free amino acids and protein (PRO) alone or in combination with CHO before resistance exercise can maximally stimulate protein synthesis. 2.) During exercise, CHO should be consumed at a rate of 30 - 60 grams of CHO/hour in a 6 - 8% CHO solution (8 - 16 fluid ounces) every 10 - 15 minutes. Adding PRO to create a CHO:PRO ratio of 3 - 4:1 may increase endurance performance and maximally promotes glycogen re-synthesis during acute and subsequent bouts of endurance exercise. 3.) Ingesting CHO alone or in combination with PRO during resistance exercise increases muscle glycogen, offsets muscle damage, and facilitates greater training adaptations after either acute or prolonged periods of supplementation with resistance training. 4.) Post-exercise (within 30 minutes) consumption of CHO at high dosages (8 - 10 g CHO/kg/day) have been shown to stimulate muscle glycogen re-synthesis, while adding PRO (0.2 g - 0.5 g PRO/kg/day) to CHO at a ratio of 3 - 4:1 (CHO: PRO) may further enhance glycogen re-synthesis. 5.) Post-exercise ingestion (immediately to 3 h post) of amino acids, primarily essential amino acids, has been shown to stimulate robust increases in muscle protein synthesis, while the addition of CHO may stimulate even greater levels of protein synthesis. Additionally, pre-exercise consumption of a CHO + PRO supplement may result in peak levels of protein synthesis. 6.) During consistent, prolonged resistance training, post-exercise consumption of varying doses of CHO + PRO supplements in varying dosages have been shown to stimulate improvements in strength and body composition when compared to control or placebo conditions. 7.) The addition of creatine (Cr) (0.1 g Cr/kg/day) to a CHO + PRO supplement may facilitate even greater adaptations to resistance training. 8.) Nutrient timing incorporates the use of methodical planning and eating of whole foods, nutrients extracted from food, and other sources. The timing of the energy intake and the ratio of certain ingested macronutrients are likely the attributes which allow for enhanced recovery and tissue repair following high-volume exercise, augmented muscle protein synthesis, and improved mood states when compared with unplanned or traditional strategies of nutrient intake.
;)
I think once you relax your approach and let your obsessiveness subside and dissolve, you will get to EXACTLY where you wish to be.
I think THAT is your only block. I think that is the block for nearly everyone. The second guessing and obsessiveness only serve to drive one in a circuitous route. We all have been there at one point and the real trick is veering off this oval. Once you do that and set the cruise control with whatever approach you decide, you will succeed.
I know you can succeed easily.
thank you, i agree and have been doing just that. I am more focused than ever right now.
i've also lost 39lbs in 9 weeks 8)
seriously, what is this holy grail?
you mean, their is something besides efficent/effective workouts and sound diet/lifestyle changes?
well yes- steroids ;D
only joking.
there are diets that work, and diets that work optimally.
there are workouts that work and workouts that work optimally.
to me the holy grail is finding the optimal versions.
gyms all over the world are full of guys/girls who do good workouts for hours every day, eat right, have a good healthy lifestyle etc but look nowhere near as good.
hollywood stars like hugh jackman, christian bale, brad pitt etc don't just workout a little to look like they do in the movies, they hire professional trainers who know exactly what to do to get them in shape.
ronnie coleman hired chad, dex hired joe mcneil, luke wood hired milos :-\ ;D etc etc
but the basic point i am making and as ta pointed out - all the knowledge in the world is useless unless you apply it, which has been my problem.
wave - which aragon article about pre/post nutrition are you talking about - i too think he is a great mind in this field, and agree entirely with his love of milk for pre/post nutrition.
-
yeah I am sure I will love it !
22 is a bit old to go back to school but until now I didn't know what I wanted to do in life and I didn't want to go to college without any motivation
22 ain't old to go back at all
-
Position Statement: The position of the Society regarding nutrient timing and the intake of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats in reference to healthy, exercising individuals is summarized by the following eight points: 1.) Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d), and ingestion of free amino acids and protein (PRO) alone or in combination with CHO before resistance exercise can maximally stimulate protein synthesis. 2.) During exercise, CHO should be consumed at a rate of 30 - 60 grams of CHO/hour in a 6 - 8% CHO solution (8 - 16 fluid ounces) every 10 - 15 minutes. Adding PRO to create a CHO:PRO ratio of 3 - 4:1 may increase endurance performance and maximally promotes glycogen re-synthesis during acute and subsequent bouts of endurance exercise. 3.) Ingesting CHO alone or in combination with PRO during resistance exercise increases muscle glycogen, offsets muscle damage, and facilitates greater training adaptations after either acute or prolonged periods of supplementation with resistance training. 4.) Post-exercise (within 30 minutes) consumption of CHO at high dosages (8 - 10 g CHO/kg/day) have been shown to stimulate muscle glycogen re-synthesis, while adding PRO (0.2 g - 0.5 g PRO/kg/day) to CHO at a ratio of 3 - 4:1 (CHO: PRO) may further enhance glycogen re-synthesis. 5.) Post-exercise ingestion (immediately to 3 h post) of amino acids, primarily essential amino acids, has been shown to stimulate robust increases in muscle protein synthesis, while the addition of CHO may stimulate even greater levels of protein synthesis. Additionally, pre-exercise consumption of a CHO + PRO supplement may result in peak levels of protein synthesis. 6.) During consistent, prolonged resistance training, post-exercise consumption of varying doses of CHO + PRO supplements in varying dosages have been shown to stimulate improvements in strength and body composition when compared to control or placebo conditions. 7.) The addition of creatine (Cr) (0.1 g Cr/kg/day) to a CHO + PRO supplement may facilitate even greater adaptations to resistance training. 8.) Nutrient timing incorporates the use of methodical planning and eating of whole foods, nutrients extracted from food, and other sources. The timing of the energy intake and the ratio of certain ingested macronutrients are likely the attributes which allow for enhanced recovery and tissue repair following high-volume exercise, augmented muscle protein synthesis, and improved mood states when compared with unplanned or traditional strategies of nutrient intake.
Show me an individual who bodybuilds.....that can consume that much carb in a day.....day after day....and not turn into a fat pig. Oh, and it would be sans-insulin use.
-
Show me an individual who bodybuilds.....that can consume that much carb in a day.....day after day....and not turn into a fat pig. Oh, and it would be sans-insulin use.
of course but that was the recommendation to promote maximum endogenous glycogen stores ;) not a daily diet.
pretty usefull recommendation for a bodybuilder wanting to carb up for a show, or athlete wanting to have maximum energy for a meet. i've read cutler and coleman both eat up to 1000g of carb to carb up for a show. ;)
-
Way to bump an old thread, thanks for the info, I'll read through those studies.
thank you, i agree and have been doing just that. I am more focused than ever right now.
i've also lost 39lbs in 9 weeks 8)
That's pretty amazing, has your strength suffered?
wave - which aragon article about pre/post nutrition are you talking about - i too think he is a great mind in this field, and agree entirely with his love of milk for pre/post nutrition.
I guess I was referring to his sticky thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067
And maybe this is also interesting to you ;) ;D:
You only have to follow three simple rules:
- Workout 3 times a week with weights.
- Eat 1g protein / lb lean body mass.
- Reduce calories to lose 1-2 lbs / week.
Success is 100% guaranteed. There's really not much more to it. :)
A more elaborate guide is posted later in this thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305)
It's a great thread.... I was the one who stickied it 8)
-
Way to bump an old thread, thanks for the info, I'll read through those studies.
That's pretty amazing, has your strength suffered?
not been working out with weights for a while as i said earlier, just bodyweight squats and pushups :-
been doing a little experiment with the diet while taking firstly anavar and more recently primobolan to see just how good they actually are at maintaining mass while on low cals.
overall i've lost a bit of strength i.e. when i started at 280 i could do 35 reps, now i can only do 25. but i've not been consistant in my training, as this was more of a convenience and experiment thing, also a sick of being fat thing.
however i realised i was only taking in a measly 100g of protein the whole time due to a mix up with ml to gram conversion >:(
i've bumped it up now so i would expect no more loss of strength, if not an improvement.
thanks for the link wave i'll check it out.
-
damn look great!
any advice for 6-6 310 pounder? I wana cut down! Diet is most important eh?
-
damn look great!
any advice for 6-6 310 pounder? I wana cut down! Diet is most important eh?
250mg per day enanthate norma
100 mg per day prop private cook
150mg every 30 hours on the clock tren ace private cook,,98% purity not easy to find
200mg anapolon per day
900mg eq per week, paste high quality
masteron 150mg every 30 hours
gh 15 units every single day devided doses of 3 units a time
insulin humalog wont elaborate but with every meal
-
So here are the pics, all from Friday, first one was shot in the morning:
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_triceps_20090703_morning_final.jpg)
The next one at noon, was pretty dry by then:
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_abs_20090703_noon_final.jpg)
Next two in the afternoon, I probably was the driest there
(leg pic to show that I actually had some veins in the legs):
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_back_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/wl_legs_20090703_afternoon_final.jpg)
ah ha!!
you are the post I was looking for! You changed your avatar photo! I was curious about a FAQ like post you made where you said diet+lifting=cut but a section "other factors not count much" included cardio. Very interesting stuff. I was talking over dinner with a guy who again pointed out how 600 calories is a shitload of running or a little less food intake.
-
250mg per day enanthate norma
100 mg per day prop private cook
150mg every 30 hours on the clock tren ace private cook,,98% purity not easy to find
200mg anapolon per day
900mg eq per week, paste high quality
masteron 150mg every 30 hours
gh 15 units every single day devided doses of 3 units a time
insulin humalog wont elaborate but with every meal
??
-
looking sick wavelengthypenis
-
I need to go back and repost this response to my naysayers that I have had for years. lol
I would hate to dig through the hundreds and hundreds of topics on this in an attempt to vindicate their ignorance. Of course I think it would be futile as their dogmatic minds are not so apt to change in lieu of all testimony and evidence even.
adonis how do you not agree with this
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305
???
-
adonis how do you not agree with this
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=312607141&postcount=1305
???
???
What do you mean? Those are my principles and I agree fully with them.
-
What the hell, who resurrected this zombie? ;D