Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The True Adonis on January 27, 2007, 10:48:32 PM
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Disgusted, can you tell us a bit about yourself.
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I find myself and "Disgusted" agreeing on just about everything in regards to bodybuilding and diet.
Disgusted, can you tell us a bit about yourself.
Keep up the fantastic work at destroying these myths.
Thanks bro, what is it that you would like to know.
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Mutual "appreciation" thread?
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Thanks bro, what is it that you would like to know.
Anything you want to add.
Compile a short bio.
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Fagnois,how does Disgusted butthole taste....you know since your tongue is deeeeep inside.... >:(
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I find myself and "Disgusted" agreeing on just about everything in regards to bodybuilding and diet.
Disgusted, can you tell us a bit about yourself.
Keep up the fantastic work at destroying these myths.
He agrees with you on cardio and you start some kind of bonding thread? It is late bro, but come on. Seriously?
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Fagnois,how does Disgusted butthole taste....you know since your tongue is deeeeep inside.... >:(
Why are we not surprised to see you exhibit, yet again, a fascination with homosexual acts?
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Well, I've been training people for probably close to 20 years and have been in the game longer than that. My methods are somewhat controversial. As far back as the 80's even some of my workout buddies laughed at some of my methods but they stopped when they saw some of the people that started winning shows.
For example, so many people think that cardio is a must to get ripped. This is not always so. I do have people use it, but most of the time it is because mentally they feel the need. Personally I think that it is a waste of freaking energy that time could be well spent recovering from a hard workout. Also, people tend to get way too fat in the offseason. They also don't realize that they are burning plenty of calories by working out, assuming that they are not standing around wasting time between sets. Most people wait too long between sets anyway. If you just busted your ass working out for 45 min why in the hell do some feel the need to walk into oblivion on the treamill for another 30-60 min and run your body further into the ground? Like I said, I do use it sometimes, but in reality it is not needed to get ripped.
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Well, I've been training people for probably close to 20 years and have been in the game longer than that. My methods are somewhat controversial. As far back as the 80's even some of my workout buddies laughed at some of my methods but they stopped when they saw some of the people that started winning shows.
For example, so many people think that cardio is a must to get ripped. This is not always so. I do have people use it, but most of the time it is because mentally they feel the need. Personally I think that it is a waste of freaking energy that time could be well spent recovering from a hard workout. Also, people tend to get way too fat in the offseason. They also don't realize that they are burning plenty of calories by working out, assuming that they are not standing around wasting time between sets. Most people wait too long between sets anyway. If you just busted your ass working out for 45 min why in the hell do some feel the need to walk into oblivion on the treamill for another 30-60 min and run your body further into the ground? Like I said, I do use it sometimes, but in reality it is not needed to get ripped.
Perfectly stated.
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for all bodytypes?..... endo included, clients with slower metabolism. If methods are so effective then why don't most people use them.
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Adonis, you keep dodging the question: When are you gonna fight DA?
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Adonis, you keep dodging the question: When are you gonna fight DA?
It was scheduled by Dave Palumbo for January, 2007 so it should be anytime soon
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for all bodytypes?..... endo included, clients with slower metabolism. If methods are so effective then why don't most people use them.
I'll give you an example of a time that I used cardio. I had a guy come to me about 20 weeks out from a show. He had cellulite on the back of his hamstrings and ass. This guy was pretty fat. He wanted to know if he could get ripped for his show. I honestly did not know if I could get him into shape. With this case I had to pull out all the stops and use everthing that I could to get him lean. He went from 280 to I believe 212. He didn't gain any muscle while dieting but he didn't lose any either. He ended up pretty damn lean with veins in his abs. If someone is way behind schedule then sometimes you have no choice but to throw in everything that you can. Oh and BTW I have NEVER used DNP on anybody and NEVER will.
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Anyone that competed in the early to mid 80's knows that cardio wasn't even spoken about...and guys were shredded. At 16, with ZERO drugs, zero cardio and simply a very tight 12 week diet and two-1-2 hour training sessions /day, I was ripped with striated quads. Today, with cardio and the drugsI rarely see striations on even national level guys. Bodybuilding is nothing like it was in the 80's...Little effort is needed to be a bodybuilder today.
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Anyone that competed in the early to mid 80's knows that cardio wasn't even spoken about...and guys were shredded. At 16, with ZERO drugs, zero cardio and simply a very tight 12 week diet and 2-2 hour training sessions /day, I was ripped with striated quads. Today, with cardio, drugs and 35 year old guys I rarely see striations on even national level guys. Bodybuilding is nothing like it was in the 80's...Little effort is needed to be a bodybuilder today.
Correct bro. I miss the 80's :'(
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So do I, Disgusted, so do I. I also give you props after what you were able to do with Kamali last year....Even with all his experience he was able to let go of all he knew and allow you to help him and it worked. Good luck.
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I'll give you an example of a time that I used cardio. I had a guy come to me about 20 weeks out from a show. He had cellulite on the back of his hamstrings and ass. This guy was pretty fat. He wanted to know if he could get ripped for his show. I honestly did not know if I could get him into shape. With this case I had to pull out all the stops and use everthing that I could to get him lean. He went from 280 to I believe 212. He didn't gain any muscle while dieting but he didn't lose any either. He ended up pretty damn lean with veins in his abs. If someone is way behind schedule then sometimes you have no choice but to throw in everything that you can. Oh and BTW I have NEVER used DNP on anybody and NEVER will.
That's a great stance to take. I myself have been accused of everything, I've been called all sorts of names but you know what? wHAT THESE ASSHOLES ON THIS SITE SAY, MEAN NOTHING. Most of these guys have never competed ,and are not certified as personal trainers. If you want to talk to an actual National level competitor who has a BS in Health and Human Performance, minors in Nutrition and Psychology, PM me.
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I agree Disgusted is VERY knowledgeable.
Disgusted, I have a question. Are you a volume guy or do you use different methods for different people and different occassions?
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So do I, Disgusted, so do I. I also give you props after what you were able to do with Kamali last year....Even with all his experience he was able to let go of all he knew and allow you to help him and it worked. Good luck.
Thanks! Gonna try to do it again, this time on a bigger scale. You going to the AC?
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Disgusted--a serious question.
Let's say a certain "female" competitor ("buffgoddess") is having difficulty losing fat from "her" she-penis...could you recommend a routine to help out?
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I agree Disgusted is VERY knowledgeable.
Disgusted, I have a question. Are you a volume guy or do you use different methods for different people and different occassions?
I have done it all when it comes to training and I mean ALL!!! I the end I believe in a higher volume type workout. Say 15 to 20 sets on average sometimes more, sometimes less. I do between 12 to 20 reps for legs and sometimes up to 50. Upper body around 12 reps. Workout should last no longer than 40 min on average.
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Disgusted--a serious question.
Let's say a certain "female" competitor ("buffgoddess") is having difficulty losing fat from "her" she-penis...could you recommend a routine to help out?
Would you quit annoying people with your" juvenile genetalia fixation problems?" Their time is valuable, unlike yours...
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disgusted in my opinion has always been a good contributer to this board. unlike other people in the industry....
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The BodyTypes, Endo, Ecto and Meso are a total bullshit and Mythical classification.
I find it hillarious that they are in fact, actually trying to label "bodytypes" when it is actually just differing bone structures.
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The BodyTypes, Endo, Ecto and Meso are a total bullshit and Mythical classification.
I find it hillarious that they are in fact, actually trying to label "bodytypes" when it is actually just differing bone structures.
Can you get any dumber than that?!
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Can you get any dumber than that?!
People throw these "classifications" and never stop to realize that there is no such thing as an EndoMorph.
If someone were to stay ripped year round, 3-5 percent Bodyfat, which ANYONE can do would he cease to be an EndoMorph?
MythBusted. There is no such thing as an EndoMorph.
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I remember that they called Dave Draper and endomorph early in his carreer. He's been lean now for about the last 30 years. So he must have found a way to "change" his body type. ;D
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The difference is that the ectomorph wont have to diet too hard and train too much to mantain a single digit bf, however the endomorph will have to bust his ass in the gym and if he adds a few extra calories he'll gain afew lbs in no time
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Disgusted, can you share with us what you are doing with Kamali to "fix" the onset of his Paloumboism? It seems minor now, but is it reversable? I thought it was from GH/slin primarily -- and once your internal organs got bigger and your muscles burnt, that's it for you. ie. not reversable.
...just curious since it seems to be a widespread problem that's getting worse each year.
In all seriousness, you are assuming that all this stomach distention is from organ growth and that is not possible. Don't debate me on this as I have consulted many Dr's about this even though I knew it was not possible anyway. It is caused by viceral fat from too much insulin usage. Palumboism is just a word that someone made up so it hardly classifies as a condition. As I said before, King has stayed lean this time so his gut is about the same size now than when he was onstage. All that can happen now is for it to get smaller from dieting.
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The BodyTypes, Endo, Ecto and Meso are a total bullshit and Mythical classification.
I find it hillarious that they are in fact, actually trying to label "bodytypes" when it is actually just differing bone structures.
You are ridiculous , man ....What's next ?! ...you are gonna call bullshit on the muscle fibres types maybe? ::)
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It is caused by viceral fat from too much insulin usage.
So you're saying that when dieting, it is possible to get subcutaneous fat down to practically nothing while still retaining Kamali-level visceral fat? :-\
What would cause the body to preferentially burn fat in this manner, and what's the solution, further dieting until the visceral fat is burned too?
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I definetely have to agree with you bro that a workout should last no longer than 40 minutes, because in all honesty 90% of the time, I'm totally spent after the first 30 minutes. I personally believe in a higher intensity style of training, perfect form, and letting the muscles doing the work, and not worrrying about weight.
What are your views on high intensity training.
I have done it all when it comes to training and I mean ALL!!! I the end I believe in a higher volume type workout. Say 15 to 20 sets on average sometimes more, sometimes less. I do between 12 to 20 reps for legs and sometimes up to 50. Upper body around 12 reps. Workout should last no longer than 40 min on average.
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So you're saying that when dieting, it is possible to get subcutaneous fat down to practically nothing while still retaining Kamali-level visceral fat? :-\
What would cause the body to preferentially burn fat in this manner, and what's the solution, further dieting until the visceral fat is burned too?
Good question. When you stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin or are taking insulin you are stimulating your body to store viceral fat. You've seen the fat guys with stomachs that are hard as a rock but have virtually no fat on the outside of their stomach. They look like they have swallowed a watermelon. These guys are carb eating machines. If they cut down on carbs then the viceral fat will start to leave. Now with BBs, these guys are almost always taking insulin all the way up to the show. Their body never lets go of the viceral fat because they are constantly stimulating their body to store it. Organ fat is always the last to leave.
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Organ fat is always the last to leave.
Actually, visceral fat is the first to leave in a dieting situation. Don't know if things change with the drugs but in a drug free person the visceral fat is among the first to go.
I think a lot of the stomach bloat is from intestinal water retention (from GH).
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Actually, visceral fat is the first to leave in a dieting situation. Don't know if things change with the drugs but in a drug free person the visceral fat is among the first to go.
I think a lot of the stomach bloat is from intestinal water retention (from GH).
You're right, but not when you restimulate storage with insluin, There is a good article on visceral fat in the months Discover mag where it states just what you have said.
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I feel that when my rest between sets is 1 minute on average I get enough "cardio."
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Can you please post your disagreement where someone might take your side and care...none of the real competitors will fight you, but that leaves 98% of the rest of the guys on Getbig.com.I toltally agre with you, but thT MAKES YOU POISON, since I'm an actual National competitor...deal with these ass licks if you want, Alex23 is has immuity...
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Disgusted, you are talking about getting to fat off season.. What is your vieuw on off season diet to add mass without adding fat ? Are your callories just above normal ? Whats your vieuw on carbs fats off season ?
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In all seriousness, you are assuming that all this stomach distention is from organ growth and that is not possible. Don't debate me on this as I have consulted many Dr's about this even though I knew it was not possible anyway. It is caused by viceral fat from too much insulin usage. Palumboism is just a word that someone made up so it hardly classifies as a condition. As I said before, King has stayed lean this time so his gut is about the same size now than when he was onstage. All that can happen now is for it to get smaller from dieting.
This is where you lose me Disgusted. Next?
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MAKE THIS THREAD A STICKY !!!
I have always tought Disgusted was incredibly knowledgeable tho, I didn't need the approval of Adam to think that way ;) ;)
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Good question. When you stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin or are taking insulin you are stimulating your body to store viceral fat. You've seen the fat guys with stomachs that are hard as a rock but have virtually no fat on the outside of their stomach. They look like they have swallowed a watermelon. These guys are carb eating machines. If they cut down on carbs then the viceral fat will start to leave. Now with BBs, these guys are almost always taking insulin all the way up to the show. Their body never lets go of the viceral fat because they are constantly stimulating their body to store it. Organ fat is always the last to leave.
Yes but certian hormones are known to cause growth specifically in certian areas, or at least certian areas (organs) have more receptors for different hormones. Makes me think of how testosterone affects the prostate. Elevated IGF-1 is responsible for growth of the intestines, leading to some of this "GH gut"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14708941&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1917575&dopt=Abstract
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interesting read on visceral fat
http://www.womenfitness.net/visceral_fat.htm
"Once adipocytes get the signal from hormones and release fat into the bloodstream, they shrink just like a balloon that you let air out of. When they shrink, so does your body fat. But if you eat excess fat once you’ve shrunk your adipocytes, chances are it will find its way right back to the adipocyte, and once again you’ll gain fat.
No matter how much physical activity you do, adipocytes never shrink so much that they disappear entirely. Like a balloon that you let all the air out of, you’re always left with some remnant. The only way to totally remove adipocytes from your body is with a surgical procedure such as liposuction or excision. But even with these procedures, if you go back to eating excess fat, you’ll put all the fat back on."
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The BodyTypes, Endo, Ecto and Meso are a total bullshit and Mythical classification.
I find it hillarious that they are in fact, actually trying to label "bodytypes" when it is actually just differing bone structures.
"BodyTypes" lol.... Its called Somatotype
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The BodyTypes, Endo, Ecto and Meso are a total bullshit and Mythical classification.
I find it hillarious that they are in fact, actually trying to label "bodytypes" when it is actually just differing bone structures.
How do the bone structures differ? Do they differ in density, or just size and proportion? What physiological processes are at work either in utero or during adolescence growth and development that create this differing bone structure?
Are ther hormonal variances?
How could the differing bone structures potentially predispose or predetermine your anatomical appearance?
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How do the bone structures differ? Do they differ in density, or just size and proportion? What physiological processes are at work either in utero or during adolescence growth and development that create this differing bone structure?
Are ther hormonal variances?
How could the differing bone structures potentially predispose or predetermine your anatomical appearance?
You lost me at "utero"... BTW how's the filming going?
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You lost me at "utero"... BTW how's the filming going?
Finished yesterday.
I think we have some good lifts.
Workout 1 has:
605x6
550x10
405x20 all on squats, and
500x6 on front squats
Our back workout has:
635x5 and 500x12 on deads
We have 225 for a rest pause set of clean and press (hang cleans)
We have 350 for 15 total reps of rest pause
A nutritional segment that was about 1 hour long (not sure how long it will be on the DVD)
and some fun stuff with my family, interviews, etc.
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Finished yesterday.
I think we have some good lifts.
Workout 1 has:
605x6
550x10
405x20 all on squats, and
500x6 on front squats
Our back workout has:
635x5 and 500x12 on deads
We have 225 for a rest pause set of clean and press (hang cleans)
We have 350 for 15 total reps of rest pause
A nutritional segment that was about 1 hour long (not sure how long it will be on the DVD)
and some fun stuff with my family, interviews, etc.
so you'll be selling it at the AC...how much?
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All this talk about different types of fat and all these people saying oh disguisting your a genuis, please a fifth grader could tell you that Kamila's problem was that hes to fat in the offseason. Oh and I suppose that Cardio doesn't burn fat now also well don't that to the millions of people that have lost substanial amounts of weight doing cardio. You boys will never cease to amaze me, better hope you don't find a "study" that claims that donkey piss will get you ripped.
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so you'll be selling it at the AC...how much?
I'm not sure yet. I want to keep the initial price down though. So, I'm hoping to sell it at a discount at the Arnold.
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Good question. When you stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin or are taking insulin you are stimulating your body to store viceral fat. You've seen the fat guys with stomachs that are hard as a rock but have virtually no fat on the outside of their stomach. They look like they have swallowed a watermelon. These guys are carb eating machines. If they cut down on carbs then the viceral fat will start to leave. Now with BBs, these guys are almost always taking insulin all the way up to the show. Their body never lets go of the viceral fat because they are constantly stimulating their body to store it. Organ fat is always the last to leave.
Wow. Finally a straight answer from a knowledgeable person about "guts".
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about the cardio thing,,
NOT NEEDED IF YOU JUST TRY TO GET CUT/RIPPED LOOK. if you prep for comp i would use cardio for a limited period of time (walking threadmil never running) ,,i do it,,chris did it,, ray did it,,labrada did it,,all could get ripped with out it yet done pre competition for limited time.
as a general rule,,if you truly are a serious lifter in decent shape at ~13%bf,,you can take anavar at 100mg a day (220lb lifter) for about 12 weeks and get down to ~7% with zero cardio and zero other products but food,,
try it you will like
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No way!!
usually BB "GURU" has small muscle but he dwarfs Tamali.
usually BB "GURU" doing force client in the Insulin race but he doesn't.
One of the best BB "GURU" has three car include two luxury model and two big house but I don't know he has.
Best BB "GURU" fried out many client kidney but he doesn't. ;D ;D
This post confuses me...can someone explain?
Lisa
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Question to Disgusted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what is the best way in your opinion to bring up a lagging bodypart ( arms in my case)
they are barely 17 inches and they look like 14 due to their poor shape, so I think I'd have to get them to at least 19 inches so it can be symmetrical with my other bodyparts
any ideas ?
thank !
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Question to Disgusted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what is the best way in your opinion to bring up a lagging bodypart ( arms in my case)
they are barely 17 inches and they look like 14 due to their poor shape, so I think I'd have to get them to at least 19 inches so it can be symmetrical with my other bodyparts
any ideas ?
thank !
train biceps and triceps on the same day and put some blood in those bad boys.
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about the cardio thing,,
NOT NEEDED IF YOU JUST TRY TO GET CUT/RIPPED LOOK. if you prep for comp i would use cardio for a limited period of time (walking threadmil never running) ,,i do it,,chris did it,, ray did it,,labrada did it,,all could get ripped with out it yet done pre competition for limited time.
as a general rule,,if you truly are a serious lifter in decent shape at ~13%bf,,you can take anavar at 100mg a day (220lb lifter) for about 12 weeks and get down to ~7% with zero cardio and zero other products but food,,
try it you will like
How would we change our diets to do that kind of drop?
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train biceps and triceps on the same day and put some blood in those bad boys.
lately I have been hitting them on the same day plus I train biceps at the end of the back workout and I train triceps after my shoulder workout too
I am getting a little desesperate
maybe I should go the Palumbo way and only do cable mouvements for my arms ;D
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lately I have been hitting them on the same day plus I train biceps at the end of the back workout and I train triceps after my shoulder workout too
I am getting a little desesperate
maybe I should go the Palumbo way and only do cable mouvements for my arms ;D
Is that really what he does? He does have pretty decent size arms.
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lately I have been hitting them on the same day plus I train biceps at the end of the back workout and I train triceps after my shoulder workout too
I am getting a little desesperate
maybe I should go the Palumbo way and only do cable mouvements for my arms ;D
you're doing too much for them then, just do one direct bicep and tricep workout per week, close grip benches, overhead bb extensions and pushdowns for tri's and barbell curls, db curls and one arm preachers for bi's.
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about the cardio thing,,
NOT NEEDED IF YOU JUST TRY TO GET CUT/RIPPED LOOK. if you prep for comp i would use cardio for a limited period of time (walking threadmil never running) ,,i do it,,chris did it,, ray did it,,labrada did it,,all could get ripped with out it yet done pre competition for limited time.
as a general rule,,if you truly are a serious lifter in decent shape at ~13%bf,,you can take anavar at 100mg a day (220lb lifter) for about 12 weeks and get down to ~7% with zero cardio and zero other products but food,,
try it you will like
100mg var/day....... pricey!
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lately I have been hitting them on the same day plus I train biceps at the end of the back workout and I train triceps after my shoulder workout too
I am getting a little desesperate
maybe I should go the Palumbo way and only do cable mouvements for my arms ;D
i used to have the same problem.....until a national level competitor pointed out how much i was overtraining them. when you do chest you hit tris, same with shoulders, so they need proper time to recover. find the perfect place for them in your split and they will grow.
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make a sticky
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thanks guys !
I'll work them less frequently then
unfortunatly, they will still have that poor muscle shape :-\ it is fucking weird cause they look bigger when I don't flex them
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I do agree on less cardio approach for some. Vince Gironda, preached that one of the 10 rules for his gym was that if you want to get shredded you don't do cardio.
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i used to have the same problem.....until a national level competitor pointed out how much i was overtraining them. when you do chest you hit tris, same with shoulders, so they need proper time to recover. find the perfect place for them in your split and they will grow.
i agree here, i never understood why people do tris with chest or back with bis, thats overtraining for me.
bis and tris on the same day only, sometimes superset them.
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Question to Disgusted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what is the best way in your opinion to bring up a lagging bodypart ( arms in my case)
they are barely 17 inches and they look like 14 due to their poor shape, so I think I'd have to get them to at least 19 inches so it can be symmetrical with my other bodyparts
any ideas ?
thank !
Unfortunately we are born with our muscle shape. Making a muscle larger will improve upon the "appearance" and make them "look" like they have have a better peak or your bicep now has a longer look to it. When someone is natural they can only get so big. Their lagging bodypart will not show as much improvment obviously as the rest of their body. There is no magical routine either BUT there are smarter ways that you can improve upon your training. Post your arm workout if you like and I will see if I can improve upon it.
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Yes but certian hormones are known to cause growth specifically in certian areas, or at least certian areas (organs) have more receptors for different hormones. Makes me think of how testosterone affects the prostate. Elevated IGF-1 is responsible for growth of the intestines, leading to some of this "GH gut"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14708941&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1917575&dopt=Abstract
Thanks for the links. I am always interested to read this type of stuff. One thing that I think most people tend to not "see" is that these guts that some guys have are not in the lower portion of the abs so much as in the middle and their obliques are distended too. It is also a very symmetrical distention. If it were the intestines then it would not be so symmetrical but rather a lumpy and I'm sure a very gross type of bulging. In other words one side would not match the other. Also when an organ stretches and increases in size it does not function properly. This point is key since it would very quickly cause severe health problems that we are obviously not seeing in BBers.
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All this talk about different types of fat and all these people saying oh disguisting your a genuis, please a fifth grader could tell you that Kamila's problem was that hes to fat in the offseason. Oh and I suppose that Cardio doesn't burn fat now also well don't that to the millions of people that have lost substanial amounts of weight doing cardio. You boys will never cease to amaze me, better hope you don't find a "study" that claims that donkey piss will get you ripped.
Of course cardio can burn fat but it is not so efficient at doing so. When you talk about the millions of people I will assume that you are talking about the general population since there are not that many BBers on the planet. I would love to know who these millions are that have lost all this substantial weight you speak of. Millions of people do walk on the treadmill everyday and have for years and I keep seeing the same fat people continuing to walk their way to nowhere every year. THESE PEOPLE DID NOT GET FAT BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF TREADMILL WALKING! THEY GOT FAT BECAUSE THEY ATE TOO MUCH CRAP FOOD!!!!
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Of course cardio can burn fat but it is not so efficient at doing so. When you talk about the millions of people I will assume that you are talking about the general population since there are not that many BBers on the planet. I would love to know who these millions are that have lost all this substantial weight you speak of. Millions of people do walk on the treadmill everyday and have for years and I keep seeing the same fat people continuing to walk their way to nowhere every year. THESE PEOPLE DID NOT GET FAT BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF TREADMILL WALKING! THEY GOT FAT BECAUSE THEY ATE TOO MUCH CRAP FOOD!!!!
agreed.
The best thing for average people to get lean is to do an intense (not heavy that is relative to the person) weights routine and eat less refined food...
low intensity cardio does jack sh!t if they are eating loads of sugar/refined carbs.
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Disgusted..great thread..keep posting on this topic
Has anyone from the coleman camp contacted you? I would love to see what you can with him.
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Disgusted..great thread..keep posting on this topic
Has anyone from the coleman camp contacted you? I would love to see what you can with him.
Jim would fix up his posing for one goddamn he is terrible now!
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about the cardio thing,,
NOT NEEDED IF YOU JUST TRY TO GET CUT/RIPPED LOOK. if you prep for comp i would use cardio for a limited period of time (walking threadmil never running) ,,i do it,,chris did it,, ray did it,,labrada did it,,all could get ripped with out it yet done pre competition for limited time.
as a general rule,,if you truly are a serious lifter in decent shape at ~13%bf,,you can take anavar at 100mg a day (220lb lifter) for about 12 weeks and get down to ~7% with zero cardio and zero other products but food,,
try it you will like
GH, you make more sense when you talk as a pimp about gang bangin' chicks
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Well, I've been training people for probably close to 20 years and have been in the game longer than that. My methods are somewhat controversial. As far back as the 80's even some of my workout buddies laughed at some of my methods but they stopped when they saw some of the people that started winning shows.
For example, so many people think that cardio is a must to get ripped. This is not always so. I do have people use it, but most of the time it is because mentally they feel the need. Personally I think that it is a waste of freaking energy that time could be well spent recovering from a hard workout. Also, people tend to get way too fat in the offseason. They also don't realize that they are burning plenty of calories by working out, assuming that they are not standing around wasting time between sets. Most people wait too long between sets anyway. If you just busted your ass working out for 45 min why in the hell do some feel the need to walk into oblivion on the treamill for another 30-60 min and run your body further into the ground? Like I said, I do use it sometimes, but in reality it is not needed to get ripped.
Poliquin has the same philosophy when it comes to cardio, I personally don't believe in cardio for long periods of time (60-90mins) and I've heard some people have gone as long as 2 hours and that IMO is a waste, I have always preferred intense interval sessions consisting of 30-40min tops, studies have shown that intense interval sessions burn much more than long slow cardio sessions!
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that is a great thread, keep it coming, finally!!!
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How do the bone structures differ? Do they differ in density, or just size and proportion? What physiological processes are at work either in utero or during adolescence growth and development that create this differing bone structure?
Are ther hormonal variances?
How could the differing bone structures potentially predispose or predetermine your anatomical appearance?
Of course bones Vary in thickness, size and shape and proportion. Enough to totally dispel the Endo,Ecto,Meso argument.
Bone Size determines Muscle attatchment.
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i think that metabolism has lot to to with ones appearance as well as bone structure. Some of us have no "give" or room to slack off in our regimens. metabolism is a bitch!
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Of course bones Vary in thickness, size and shape and proportion. Enough to totally dispel the Endo,Ecto,Meso argument.
Bone Size determines Muscle attatchment.
No, where the muscle attaches determines muscle attachment genius.
Do you even know what the hell you are talking about 95% of the time or do you just post your idiotic streams of consciousness?
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Bone Size determines Muscle attatchment.
Nah, I know guys with light bone structures and long, full muscle bellies and vice versa. Totally wrong here.
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Nah, I know guys with light bone structures and long, full muscle bellies and vice versa. Totally wrong here.
Exactly my point.
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No, where the muscle attaches determines muscle attachment genius.
Do you even know what the hell you are talking about 95% of the time or do you just post your idiotic streams of consciousness?
4. Location of the Muscle Attachment (Association with Bone)
Many muscles are named as a result of their association with a particular bone. The temporalis muscle is found covering the temporal bone while the frontalis muscle is found covering the frontal bone of the skull.
5. Location of Muscle's Origin and Insertion on Bones:
All muscles have an origin and insertion. The origin is the part of the body, usually a bone, where the muscle attaches, and does not move when the muscle contracts. The insertion is the part of the body where the muscle attaches, and moves when the muscle contracts. Some muscles are named based upon their origin and insertion. The first part of the muscle name indicates the origin while the second part indicates the insertion. For example, the muscle that has its origin on the breast bone and clavicle (collar bone) and that inserts on a breast shaped process of the skull is termed the sternocleidomastoid: sterno (G: "breast bone"), cleido (G: "clavicle"), and mastoid (G: "breast shape").
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Exactly my point.
So how does the bone size determine muscle attachments? Some simply have poor attachments, whether they are light or heavy boned. How are they related?
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So how does the bone size determine muscle attachments? Some simply have poor attachments, whether they are light or heavy boned. How are they related?
Bone length for the most part.
Here is a good, simple site you can read.
http://www.maexamhelp.com/id89.htm
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Bone length for the most part.
Here is a good, simple site you can read.
http://www.maexamhelp.com/id89.htm
So when you have two guys with the same length upper arm bone but one has short biceps and the other long what determines that?
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Poliquin has the same philosophy when it comes to cardio, I personally don't believe in cardio for long periods of time (60-90mins) and I've heard some people have gone as long as 2 hours and that IMO is a waste, I have always preferred intense interval sessions consisting of 30-40min tops, studies have shown that intense interval sessions burn much more than long slow cardio sessions!
I believe that you are reffering to HITT
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So when you have two guys with the same length upper arm bone but one has short biceps and the other long what determines that?
Im not sure I follow. Can you provide me with Picture evidence. I am not sure I know what a "Short" bicep is.
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Can't go very intense for 30-40 minutes. Intervals for 5-10 minutes to start or something.
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I have done it all when it comes to training and I mean ALL!!! I the end I believe in a higher volume type workout. Say 15 to 20 sets on average sometimes more, sometimes less. I do between 12 to 20 reps for legs and sometimes up to 50. Upper body around 12 reps. Workout should last no longer than 40 min on average.
How can you do 15 to 20 sets a body part in 40 minutes unless your using super light weights and 30 seconds rest or less inbetween sets? Let's take chest for example using 5 sets of flat benches; 5 sets of inclines; 5 sets of flys and finish with 5 sets of dips. If you could do all that in 45 minutes with any type of real weight it would be amazing to watch.
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How can you do 15 to 20 sets a body part in 40 minutes unless your using super light weights and 30 seconds rest or less inbetween sets? Let's take chest for example using 5 sets of flat benches; 5 sets of inclines; 5 sets of flys and finish with 5 sets of dips. If you could do all that in 45 minutes with any type of real weight it would be amazing to watch.
That is EASY to do in the given time frame.
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4. Location of the Muscle Attachment (Association with Bone)
Many muscles are named as a result of their association with a particular bone. The temporalis muscle is found covering the temporal bone while the frontalis muscle is found covering the frontal bone of the skull.
5. Location of Muscle's Origin and Insertion on Bones:
All muscles have an origin and insertion. The origin is the part of the body, usually a bone, where the muscle attaches, and does not move when the muscle contracts. The insertion is the part of the body where the muscle attaches, and moves when the muscle contracts. Some muscles are named based upon their origin and insertion. The first part of the muscle name indicates the origin while the second part indicates the insertion. For example, the muscle that has its origin on the breast bone and clavicle (collar bone) and that inserts on a breast shaped process of the skull is termed the sternocleidomastoid: sterno (G: "breast bone"), cleido (G: "clavicle"), and mastoid (G: "breast shape").
How does posting the name origin of certain muscles correlate to where they insert on a given bone?
Oh....that's right,it doesn't. carry on.
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Im not sure I follow. Can you provide me with Picture evidence. I am not sure I know what a "Short" bicep is.
When the tendon is long and bicep is short. Surely you know that some peoples bicep bellies go all the way into their elbow whereas some, like me, can fit 4 fingers between the elbow crease and start of the bicep belly.
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How can you do 15 to 20 sets a body part in 40 minutes unless your using super light weights and 30 seconds rest or less inbetween sets? Let's take chest for example using 5 sets of flat benches; 5 sets of inclines; 5 sets of flys and finish with 5 sets of dips. If you could do all that in 45 minutes with any type of real weight it would be amazing to watch.
I do it all the time bro. I check my ego at the door and work my muscle not my tendons or adrenal glands. Rest between sets is anywhere from 30 sec for arms to 1 min or slightly more for legs. I will admit to longer when I am squatting.
BTW, "real weight" as I define it is a load that is heavy enough to tax the muscle given the amount of time that I rest between sets. If I rested another min then I could use more weight, but this is not always the deciding factor in muscle growth.
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I'll repeat. How could you use anything heavy working out that fast. I use six sets a body part and if I were to do that volume the weight used would go down drastically.
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hahahaha, "oldtimer" sounds like the type of clown you see in the gym reading a newspaper for 15 minutes in between sets of massive 205lb. bench presses for 4 reps.
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I'll repeat. How could you use anything heavy working out that fast. I use six sets a body part and if I were to do that volume the weight used would go down drastically.
Haha reread my post. I was adding something as you were tpying.
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I'll repeat. How could you use anything heavy working out that fast. I use six sets a body part and if I were to do that volume the weight used would go down drastically.
what do you define as heavy?... going to failure using proper form is what people should be doing but the amount of weight on the bar may not be as high as it could be with more rest and poor form but so what?
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You start with the heaviest weight you'll use on that exercise first disgusted, so in conventional terms 'pyramid down' ?
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Squadfather go back to your job delivering pizza and say hello to your mother when you head back to your room with the rock posters on the walls. I have been around this game longer than you have been alive I bet. I'll bring this down to your level. I know you are but what I'm I?
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When the tendon is long and bicep is short. Surely you know that some peoples bicep bellies go all the way into their elbow whereas some, like me, can fit 4 fingers between the elbow crease and start of the bicep belly.
I think you are confusing the thickness of fibers. Nobody has a Bicep that does not connect near th elbow.
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Squadfather go back to your job delivering pizza and say hello to your mother when you head back to your room with the rock posters on the walls. I have been around this game longer than you have been alive I bet. I'll bring this down to your level. I know you are but what I'm I?
hahahahaha, sounds like i really have you pegged by my post, i really touched a nerve.
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what do you define as heavy?... going to failure using proper form is what people should be doing but the amount of weight on the bar may not be as high as it could be with more rest and poor form but so what?
Tension is important though or we wouldn't have to go to a gym at all. We'd buy some rubber bands and grow like crazy. Tension is not everything but it's important.
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about the cardio thing,,
NOT NEEDED IF YOU JUST TRY TO GET CUT/RIPPED LOOK. if you prep for comp i would use cardio for a limited period of time (walking threadmil never running) ,,i do it,,chris did it,, ray did it,,labrada did it,,all could get ripped with out it yet done pre competition for limited time.
as a general rule,,if you truly are a serious lifter in decent shape at ~13%bf,,you can take anavar at 100mg a day (220lb lifter) for about 12 weeks and get down to ~7% with zero cardio and zero other products but food,,
try it you will like
gh15, why do you say always walking and never running? Just that i have a v low resting heart rate and would find it virtually impossible to get my heart rate to over 100 by walking alone, even briskly, and therefore in theory, would not be burning fat?
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Hope this helps!
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BTW, "real weight" as I define it is a load that is heavy enough to tax the muscle given the amount of time that I rest between sets. If I rested another min then I could use more weight, but this is not always the deciding factor in muscle growth.
better said than me...
people also need to realise that doing say side laterals using good form for 25lbers and sloppy for 40lbers is doing TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT EXERCISES... you can't compare the load for them.
kinda like people putting sh1t on yates for "ONLY" using 1100lbs on his leg presses in blood and guts. The dude was using deep deep form on a real (CYBEX) 45 degree leg press... you can't compare that to these pansys at golds venice doing 1/4 reps on that 35 degree FLEX leg press they have there.
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Tension is important though or we wouldn't have to go to a gym at all. We'd buy some rubber bands and grow like crazy. Tension is not everything but it's important.
You could go buy rubber bands and grow like crazy if you knew what you were doing.
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You start with the heaviest weight you'll use on that exercise first disgusted, so in conventional terms 'pyramid down' ?
Good question. I have done it both ways. I really don't see much need to start heavy. Once I am at about my third set of my first exercise my pump is starting to kick in regardless. I sometimes stay with the same weight or go up in weight as the sets progress, but usually I can only increase the weight for a couple sets or two because fatigue sets in quick. Now, once I get to the second exercise I usually stay with the same weight. With all that I have just said remember that I go by feel. Speed of reps, the way you contract your muscle ect all determine how heavy the weight will feel. You can never duplicate these things exactly each workout. Don't get so caught up on weight, just concentrate on getting the most extreme muscle destroying pump you can get. Obviously the weight has to be heavy enough (the key word enough) once you go past that you actually are taking the tension off the muscle by using other factors such as cheating the weight to make it easier or forcing it up and risk rupturing a tendon which is all too common today.
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Finally some interesting and informative stuff here!! Thanks guys. To get lean without cardio how does this sound.
height 185cm. Weight 250lb: Muscle weight. 210lb.
4 x 1hour of weights per week.
Pro: 330g, carbs, 150g, fats 50g. 50 carbs less on non training days.
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Finally some interesting and informative stuff here!! Thanks guys. To get lean without cardio how does this sound.
height 185cm. Weight 250lb: Muscle weight. 210lb.
4 x 1hour of weights per week.
Pro: 330g, carbs, 150g, fats 50g. 50 carbs less on non training days.
hahahahahahahaha, you don't honestly believe that your muscular bodyweight is 210lbs., do you?
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Good question. I have done it both ways. I really don't see much need to start heavy. Once I am at about my third set of my first exercise my pump is starting to kick in regardless. I sometimes stay with the same weight or go up in weight as the sets progress, but usually I can only increase the weight for a couple sets or two because fatigue sets in quick. Now, once I get to the second exercise I usually stay with the same weight. With all that I have just said remember that I go by feel. Speed of reps, the way you contract your muscle ect all determine how heavy the weight will feel. You can never duplicate these things exactly each workout. Don't get so caught up on weight, just concentrate on getting the most extreme muscle destroying pump you can get. Obviously the weight has to be heavy enough (the key word enough) once you go past that you actually are taking the tension off the muscle by using other factors such as cheating the weight to make it easier or forcing it up and risk rupturing a tendon which is all too common today.
Exactly.
I will also add this thought.
One should do what is most efficient, not always what is most Difficult. If your legs are better worked from Leg Press and not squats, due to your anatomical structure, then do that instead!
People have this misconception that the most difficult lifts or movements are the best, when in fact you should be looking for efficiency and what is best performed in order to get the most out of a movement.
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do certian excercises require more weight such as squats or bent rows? i know i grow and get a great feeling with hevy weight
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You could go buy rubber bands and grow like crazy if you knew what you were doing.
Yes if they were thick enough LOL.
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Finally some interesting and informative stuff here!! Thanks guys. To get lean without cardio how does this sound.
height 185cm. Weight 250lb: Muscle weight. 210lb.
4 x 1hour of weights per week.
Pro: 330g, carbs, 150g, fats 50g. 50 carbs less on non training days.
That is a good amount of calories and you will get lean with ZERO cardio.
I will also give you a tip. Your Macro`s do not matter at all. Don`t waste your time with that high of protein.
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I will also give you a tip. Your Macro`s do not matter at all. Don`t waste your time with that high of protein.
Here you and Disgusted do not agree at all.
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That is a good amount of calories and you will get lean with ZERO cardio.
I will also give you a tip. Your Macro`s do not matter at all. Don`t waste your time with that high of protein.
why does the protein not matter? Would it matter for Jay Cutler?
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why does the protein not matter? Would it matter for Jay Cutler?
Too many drugs cloud the variables in my opinion. I would have to know what drugs he takes.
We can`t speculate unless we know what he is doing.
But we can say this: ALL DRUGS.
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Here you and Disgusted do not agree at all.
I don`t think Disgusted advocates HIGH protein so to speak.
I could be wrong.
Lets ask him......Disgusted?
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what about your average joe on 500 test/wk. I think its to hard for the athlete who uses to rely on pure calories alone and have no worries on protein intake
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In regards to protein...
I think MOST people would look and feel better on a higher meat diet instead of all the powders most people tend to use...
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Hope this helps!
LOL, took my a while to find my HOPE THIS HELPS pic! ;D
(http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/06-089-training/scan0001.jpg)
A visual comparison of SHORT and LONG calf muscles: The gastronemius muscle on the right is 50-percent longer than the one on the left. As a result of the 50-percent greater length, the muscle on the right is more than three times the volume of the muscle on the left.
So there.
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LOL, took my a while to find my HOPE THIS HELPS pic! ;D
(http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/06-089-training/scan0001.jpg)
So there.
One looks untrained, one looks trained.
I don`t see much of a difference. Also, How do we know the Bones are the same length?
There are too many things going on here to give an answer.
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I don`t think Disgusted advocates HIGH protein so to speak.
I could be wrong.
Lets ask him......Disgusted?
1.5 gr/pd is plenty and it can be done with less.
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what boggles my mind.... is that i watch bodybuilding DVD's Jay cutler, Ronnie Coleman, Etc, the best in the world. THOSE GUYS worry about protein intake, cardio, carbs, , so thiis is where im lost
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what boggles my mind.... is that i watch bodybuilding DVD's Jay cutler, Ronnie Coleman, Etc, the best in the world. THOSE GUYS worry about protein intake, cardio, carbs, , so thiis is where im lost
No reason to be lost. At that level you need to worry about every last detail. You need a certain amount of nutrients to live and slightly more to sustain a great amount of muscle mass. I general BBers tend to grossly overeat.
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One looks untrained, one looks trained.
Yeah, that's all there is to it LOL. The guy on the left could take all the steroids in the world and train for ten years and he'd be lucky to put on an inch on his calves. The muscle is short, and the fibers simply aren't there.
They are approximately the same length, as everyone sees.
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Yeah, that's all there is to it LOL. The guy on the left could take all the steroids in the world and train for ten years and he'd be lucky to put on an inch on his calves. The muscle is short, and the fibers simply aren't there.
They are approximately the same length, as everyone sees.
I am sure the guy on the left could get a huge Calve by taking large amounts of steroids too.
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1.5 gr/pd is plenty and it can be done with less.
So Big Lee would be on 375 grams a day or a bit less.
Adonis thinks 30 grams a day is good as long as you have 100 grams the next and so on.
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1.5 gr/pd is plenty and it can be done with less.
1.5gr/lb of lean mass or overall bodyweight?
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I am sure the guy on the left could get a huge Calve by taking large amounts of steroids too.
I wonder why guys like Tony Pearson had to resort to implants? I guess they didn't train their calves and were all natural.
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Adam,
Do you believe your body will have the same nutrient partioning effects on 20g of Salmon oil as it would on 20g of trans fats?
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1.5gr/lb of lean mass or overall bodyweight?
Overall weight is fine. No reason to be so techical. Most guys use the overall BW method.
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I general BBers tend to grossly overeat.
i couldn't agree more..... That whole force feeding thing throws me. When i see what appears to be fat guys "force feeding" i cringe... I am like, you guys have reserves!
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Its not going to matter since it is NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to seek out a diet, just to get 20 grams of Trans fats.
Given a restricted calorie amount, it will also be almost impossible.
Also, Given the above near impossibility, it would be improbable that this would be even continued on a daily basis.
My point is, that it will NEVER happen so you wouldn`t even have to debate Trans Fat versus Salmon Oil.
We kind of remove ourselves from that whole equation.
With that said, the effects of Trans-Fat are incorrectly exhibited and really pose no threat at all. No conclusive studies yet have proved that Trans Fat are a problem....Adverse health effects from Advil are a worse problem, but we tend not to debate about that now do we?
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To further explain the abusurdity and near improbability:
Try and put together a diet in which you get 20 grams of Trans fat but not going over, lets say 2000 calories.
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i couldn't agree more..... That whole force feeding thing throws me. When i see what appears to be fat guys "force feeding" i cringe... I am like, you guys have reserves!
This goes back to the whole distended stomach issue and insulin. I have seen guys who never taken insulin but have grossly overeaten carbs for years and have the same exact stomach distention problem. I am talking about BBers here.
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Its not going to matter since it is NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to seek out a diet, just to get 20 grams of Trans fats.
Given a restricted calorie amount, it will also be almost impossible.
Also, Given the above near impossibility, it would be improbable that this would be even continued on a daily basis.
My point is, that it will NEVER happen so you wouldn`t even have to debate Trans Fat versus Salmon Oil.
We kind of remove ourselves from that whole equation.
With that said, the effects of Trans-Fat are incorrectly exhibited and really pose no threat at all. No conclusive studies yet have proved that Trans Fat are a problem....Adverse health effects from Advil are a worse problem, but we tend not to debate about that now do we?
That is the opposite of correct.
Do you believe that the nutrient partioning will be the same for a meal including 20g saturated fat vs. a meal containing 20g salmon oil?
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That is the opposite of correct.
Do you believe that the nutrient partioning will be the same for a meal including 20g saturated fat vs. a meal containing 20g salmon oil?
To further explain the abusurdity and near improbability:
Try and put together a diet in which you get 20 grams of Trans fat but not going over, lets say 2000 calories.
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Your avoiding the question my friend.....
Lets make it easy for you:
10g Saturated fats vs 10g salmon oil.
Would the nutritne partioning be the same?
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Your avoiding the question my friend.....
Lets make it easy for you:
10g Saturated fats vs 10g salmon oil.
Would the nutritne partioning be the same?
As of yet, there needs to be more research done. ALL STUDIES showing Trans-Fat in a negative light are still inconclusive.
Furthermore they only differ in shape. The Nutritional Paritioning of trans-fat needs more research at the moment. But this is interesting:
The NAS has concluded there is no safe level of trans fat consumption. There is no adequate level, recommended daily amount or tolerable upper limit for trans fats. This is because any incremental increase in trans fat intake increases the risk of coronary heart disease.[2]
Despite this concern, the NAS dietary recommendations have not recommended the elimination of trans fat from the diet. This is because trans fat is naturally present in many animal foods, and therefore in most non-vegan diets; its removal from ordinary diets might introduce undesirable side effects and nutritional imbalances if proper nutritional planning is not undertaken. The NAS has therefore "recommended that trans fatty acid consumption be as low as possible while consuming a nutritionally adequate diet".[11] Like the NAS, the World Health Organization has tried to balance public health goals with a practical level of trans fat consumption, recommending in 2003 that trans fats be limited to less than 1% of overall energy intake.[4]
The US National Dairy Council has asserted that the trans fats present in animal foods are of a different type than those in partially hydrogenated oils, and do not appear to exhibit the same negative effects.[12] While a recent scientific review agrees with the conclusion (stating that "the sum of the current evidence suggests that the public health implications of consuming trans fats from ruminant products are relatively limited") it cautions that this may be due to the relatively low consumption of trans fats from animal sources compared to artificial ones.[3]
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As of yet, there needs to be more research done. ALL STUDIES showing Trans-Fat in a negative light are still inconclusive.
Furthermore they only differ in shape. The Nutritional Paritioning of trans-fat needs more research at the moment. But this is interesting:
The NAS has concluded there is no safe level of trans fat consumption. There is no adequate level, recommended daily amount or tolerable upper limit for trans fats. This is because any incremental increase in trans fat intake increases the risk of coronary heart disease.[2]
Despite this concern, the NAS dietary recommendations have not recommended the elimination of trans fat from the diet. This is because trans fat is naturally present in many animal foods, and therefore in most non-vegan diets; its removal from ordinary diets might introduce undesirable side effects and nutritional imbalances if proper nutritional planning is not undertaken. The NAS has therefore "recommended that trans fatty acid consumption be as low as possible while consuming a nutritionally adequate diet".[11] Like the NAS, the World Health Organization has tried to balance public health goals with a practical level of trans fat consumption, recommending in 2003 that trans fats be limited to less than 1% of overall energy intake.[4]
The US National Dairy Council has asserted that the trans fats present in animal foods are of a different type than those in partially hydrogenated oils, and do not appear to exhibit the same negative effects.[12] While a recent scientific review agrees with the conclusion (stating that "the sum of the current evidence suggests that the public health implications of consuming trans fats from ruminant products are relatively limited") it cautions that this may be due to the relatively low consumption of trans fats from animal sources compared to artificial ones.[3]
LOL STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION !
Re-read what I posted.
Saturated fats 10g vs. Salmon oil 10g
Is the nutrient partioning the same?
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LOL STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION !
Re-read what I posted.
Saturated fats 10g vs. Salmon oil 10g
Is the nutrient partioning the same?
Find the answer in my posts. Its there.
You want me to compare the fats? I just told you that the only difference is the shape and therefore the fluidity.
Its not going to act any different in any other repsect. Any test that says otherwise will also surely note that it is still inconclusive.
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This goes back to the whole distended stomach issue and insulin. I have seen guys who never taken insulin but have grossly overeaten carbs for years and have the same exact stomach distention problem. I am talking about BBers here.
True, but there are some like Palumbo who use near ketogenic diets year round and still have a gut. I don't know about his insulin use though.
What do you think about my intestinal water retention theory? When they carb up the stomach also swells dramatically sometimes. My theory is that the carbs pull even more water into the area. I know they try to use carbs like Vitargo that causes less water pull, and the rumors are some use IVs to carb up. I don't think the same bloat happens to natural athletes, at least to that extent.
Take the pic where Ronnie is warming up backstage and his gut is huge. I have a hard time believing all that is visceral fat.
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True, but there are some like Palumbo who use near ketogenic diets year round and still have a gut. I don't know about his insulin use though.
What do you think about my intestinal water retention theory? When they carb up the stomach also swells dramatically sometimes. My theory is that the carbs pull even more water into the area. I know they try to use carbs like Vitargo that causes less water pull, and the rumors are some use IVs to carb up. I don't think the same bloat happens to natural athletes, at least to that extent.
Take the pic where Ronnie is warming up backstage and his gut is huge. I have a hard time believing all that is visceral fat.
Only Dave can tell you whether he has used insulin.
Water in the intestines would cause massive diarrhea. Plus even if there were, the diuretics would take care of that problem. It's not all visceral, some of it is the massive amounts of carbs ingested right before the show. I think Chad mentioned that he was carbing Ronnie up on liquids the last couple of years to avoid the bloated look. It seemed to have helped to a degree.
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GH, you make more sense when you talk as a pimp about gang bangin' chicks
very very easy to understand,,but ill put it in a power point prsesentation
1. if you dont compete cardio is not needed,,waste of time,,you can get down to your 8-9% with out it.
2. if you do compete,, cardio should be performed in specific timing corresponding with your prep,,i believe that some cardio in contest prep,, while loaded on drugs,, is exellent,,AGAIN WHILE LOADED ON DRUGS.
3. me and anyone i know to that matter do some cardio in contest prep,,but i also dont do anything beside training,,eating,,sleeping and loving life,,,so im not the most active person on earth
4. take your granny and feed her with oxandrolone at 50 mg a day for 8 weeks and she will lean out and lose the soft belly,,works a lot better on a bodybuilder my friend ;)
5. oxandrolone is the reason franco became franco,,one of his favorite drugs,,just gotta take enough of it and that the mistake of most guys,,,they dont take enough of it,, 90-150mg a day by itself will change your physiqe in a 12 week period,,nothing else needed,, girls do it all the time...then claim to be fitness girls and bodybuilders,,try it you will see i am right as usual
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4. take your granny and feed her with oxandrolone at 50 mg a day for 8 weeks and she will lean out and lose the soft belly,,works a lot better on a bodybuilder my friend ;)
5. oxandrolone is the reason franco became franco,,one of his favorite drugs,,just gotta take enough of it and that the mistake of most guys,,,they dont take enough of it,, 90-150mg a day by itself will change your physiqe in a 12 week period,,nothing else needed,, girls do it all the time...then claim to be fitness girls and bodybuilders,,try it you will see i am right as usual
I must say that this peice of advise is worth the price of admission. Anavar at high dose have built some very big physiques.
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Only Dave can tell you whether he has used insulin.
Water in the intestines would cause massive diarrhea. Plus even if there were, the diuretics would take care of that problem. It's not all visceral, some of it is the massive amounts of carbs ingested right before the show. I think Chad mentioned that he was carbing Ronnie up on liquids the last couple of years to avoid the bloated look. It seemed to have helped to a degree.
Well, I don't doubt Palumbo has used plenty of insulin at some point LOL.
The intestinal water retention thing I got from an interview with Jim Quinn. Said he had severe constipation actually, and x-ray showed massive water retention in the intestines. He blamed the GH.
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Find the answer in my posts. Its there.
You want me to compare the fats? I just told you that the only difference is the shape and therefore the fluidity.
Its not going to act any different in any other repsect. Any test that says otherwise will also surely note that it is still inconclusive.
WHy am I not surprised... after several posts of "cut-n-pasted" material , Adam fails to provide an answer.
Lets try again:
2000 cals of JIF regular peanutbutter vs. 2000 cals of chicken breast, broccoli, olive oil, sweet potatos
Will the nutrient partioning be the same>
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WHy am I not surprised... after several posts of "cut-n-pasted" material , Adam fails to provide an answer.
Lets try again:
2000 cals of JIF regular peanutbutter vs. 2000 cals of chicken breast, broccoli, olive oil, sweet potatos
Will the nutrient partioning be the same>
On a side note, I'd love to see someone try and eat 2K worth of Broc. ;D
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On a side note, I'd love to see someone try and eat 2K worth of Broc. ;D
I love how you guys just read only what you want to read...
re-read the post my friend:
" 2000 cals from chicken breast, broccoli, olive oil and sweet potatos"
a combination of each..... It doesnt really matter, my point is still proven
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I love how you guys just read only what you want to read...
re-read the post my friend:
" 2000 cals from chicken breast, broccoli, olive oil and sweet potatos"
a combination of each..... It doesnt really matter, my point is still proven
I think he knew that...
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WHy am I not surprised... after several posts of "cut-n-pasted" material , Adam fails to provide an answer.
Lets try again:
2000 cals of JIF regular peanutbutter vs. 2000 cals of chicken breast, broccoli, olive oil, sweet potatos
Will the nutrient partioning be the same>
Or better yet. If you just drink Coors light, period, but keep your cals in check you will look just fine. Right?
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I think he knew that...
Your right, after all this is " THE MOST EDUCATED "GURU" " we are talking about ::)
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Disgusted, you are talking about getting to fat off season.. What is your vieuw on off season diet to add mass without adding fat ? Are your callories just above normal ? Whats your vieuw on carbs fats off season ?
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Your right, after all this is " THE MOST EDUCATED "GURU" " we are talking about ::)
He does know his shit.... i think he was being facetious dude.
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Your right, after all this is " THE MOST EDUCATED "GURU" " we are talking about ::)
who cares about educated?
Disgusted would have to be the most "instinctive" guru out there IMO... and his instincts are generally right even if even he doesn't know the science behind why an idea might/does work...
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Or better yet. If you just drink Coors light, period, but keep your cals in check you will look just fine. Right?
Groink,
THe sad thing is that according to Adam you can eat ANYTHING as long as you stick with a specific Number of cals. THerefore He would HAVE TO agree with the Coors light example!
THis is the level of insanity we are dealing with.
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who cares about educated?
Disgusted would have to be the most "instinctive" guru out there IMO... and his instincts are generally right even if even he doesn't know the science behind why an idea might/does work...
Thanks bro. In all seriousness people try to make things way to complicated. If I need to know something for the sake of making soomeone look better on stage then trust me I know what I doing. I'm not a scientist, but somehow I bring people in shape for shows over and over again when no one else seems to be able to.
For example, I worked with Betty Pariso for 4 days before the Olympia this year. She had just placed a dismal 5th at the Atlantic City show. I did what was possible in that amount of time and she placed 6th at the Olympia and ended up beating Iris Kyle in the muscualrity round. Currently she is 5 weeks out from the Arnold and in the best shape of her life. When I train people I train them as individuals and not with cookie cutter plans. I am the one people come to when their trainer screws up and I am not referring to King, but many other people over the years. The difference now is that I will not do it in secret any more behind their trainers back and have them take credit for it! I will admit that I need to work on my comedy act. :'(
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In the offseason I think that you just need to eat enough carbs to add some calories and not too many that you get fat. Pretty simple.
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Finally some intelligent conversation. Dude, I like what you've written here, alot of good info.
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disgusted!!!
is there a way to have more information on your training, ideas, website, your name (was it mention somewhere?).
That would be nice thank!
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disgusted!!!
is there a way to have more information on your training, ideas, website, your name (was it mention somewhere?).
That would be nice thank!
I don't have a website site but you can ask me anything that you like. My name and some info is listed on King's site.
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disgusted!!!
is there a way to have more information on your training, ideas, website, your name (was it mention somewhere?).
That would be nice thank!
He has good posts on professionalmuscle.com
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what do your leg workouts consist of, Disgusted?
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Disgusted.. most honest trainer there is!!!
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After reading this thread, it looks like Discusted has an old school and commonsense and very effective approach to his training and nutrition philosphy. Like many other "Gurus" who would rather manipulate the drugs, seems he manipulates the diet instead!
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I don't have a website site but you can ask me anything that you like. My name and some info is listed on King's site.
I already know your name, but here's a question........any word from Rory?? He kinda pissed me off.
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GH sold me on anavar....
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what do your leg workouts consist of, Disgusted?
Mine or what I recommend. ;D OK, I like squats. My favorite exercise. The rest would be leg extensions and some legpress, leg curl. I like the vertical legpress best. I like to go as high as 30 reps and leg extensions. I love to blast out reps until my quads are numb. Mainly high reps on legs in general. Squats I keep around 10 to 12 reps.
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I already know your name, but here's a question........any word from Rory?? He kinda pissed me off.
Sadly no. I talked to him only once. To be honest I kinda knew that I would probabley not talk to him again. He does seem like a nice guy though. Plus it was nice to talk to someone who I looked up to as a kid and possibly get to train him. That would been pretty cool.
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Mine or what I recommend. ;D OK, I like squats. My favorite exercise. The rest would be leg extensions and some legpress, leg curl. I like the vertical legpress best. I like to go as high as 30 reps and leg extensions. I love to blast out reps until my quads are numb. Mainly high reps on legs in general. Squats I keep around 10 to 12 reps.
sounds like a good plan, how about chest?
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sounds like a good plan, how about chest?
Basic. 4 exercises 4 to 6 sets, reps around 12. The standard stuff, Incline bar or DB, flys, CC, stuff like that. Some machines I like too.
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Basic. 4 exercises 4 to 6 sets, reps around 12. The standard stuff, Incline bar or DB, flys, CC, stuff like that. Some machines I like too.
why so high on the reps, i get better results with 6-8 on upper body movements.
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why so high on the reps, i get better results with 6-8 on upper body movements.
Just what I prefer. Everyone is different but there is a limit to how low you can go in reps before you work more of your tendon strength and not the muscle. 6 is pushing it. 8 to 12 reps is a good range for growth.
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Just what I prefer. Everyone is different but there is a limit to how low you can go in reps before you work more of your tendon strength and not the muscle. 6 is pushing it. 8 to 12 reps is a good range for growth.
yeah i hear you, man you look like a dude that hangs out at The Ravenite in Little Italy, i could see you hanging out with Sammy the Bull right there on the sidewalk going over who is getting their button.
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yeah i hear you, man you look like a dude that hangs out at The Ravenite in Little Italy, i could see you hanging out with Sammy the Bull right there on the sidewalk going over getting their button.
Disgusted is a Nubret fan/protege (for want of a better word).
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yeah i hear you, man you look like a dude that hangs out at The Ravenite in Little Italy, i could see you hanging out with Sammy the Bull right there on the sidewalk going over getting their button.
Haha, Sammy's in jail so it must have been someone else. ;D
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Haha, Sammy's in jail so it must have been someone else. ;D
no no, i meant you look like the kind of dude you'd see hanging out at Gotti's "social club" nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
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is this you disgusted, r u jim magnum magnone?
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if it is, its nice to see a trainer who looks like he can handle some weight.
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is this you disgusted, r u jim magnum magnone?
yeah that's him.
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that's da man..
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yeah that's him.
hes a big bastard.
hes no haney rimjob though ;D
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hes a big bastard.
hes no haney rimjob though ;D
>:( ;D
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hes a big bastard.
hes no haney rimjob though ;D
yeah he looks like a good sized dude, not bodybuilder huge but like a pro athlete which is more than i can say about some of these clowns.
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Or better yet. If you just drink Coors light, period, but keep your cals in check you will look just fine. Right?
You would.
Not the best approach though. But since you wouldn`t make that a daily habit, it wouldn`t matter and is not even a feasible comparison.
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Just what I prefer. Everyone is different but there is a limit to how low you can go in reps before you work more of your tendon strength and not the muscle. 6 is pushing it. 8 to 12 reps is a good range for growth.
Goes back to what I was saying about old school training and HIT is crap when you are a bodybuilder!
Power, strength, hypertrophy in that order!
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>:( ;D
you remind me of "Pauly Cicero". 8)
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Goes back to what I was saying about old school training and HIT is crap when you are a bodybuilder!
Power, strength, hypertrophy in that order!
plus it comes down to form...
who can really do a strict set of 6 on side laterals with a really heavy weight? why not do 12 reps and be strict from the first rep to the last.
a compound like benches is different... depends upon the movement as to how many reps you can/should do...
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Oh what the heck since you all know who I am now. This is when I was I think 23. It is a blow up of a small pic so sorry bout the quality. Just to prove that at one time I was a BBer. ;D
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you remind me of "Pauly Cicero". 8)
hahahaha, "you seen this fucckn' Billy Bats? yeah well i wish he'd just show himself wherever the fucck he is they're driving me crazy lookin' for this bastard"
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great quads at 23!!
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had some sick wheels there bro.
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hahahaha, "you seen this fucckn' Billy Bats? yeah well i wish he'd just show himself wherever the fucck he is they're driving me crazy lookin' for this bastard"
"im gonna go get the paper, get the paper"
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"im gonna go get the paper, get the paper"
hahahaha, Frankie Two Times, hahahaha, "i just got out of the joint and i come in here and i'm just breaking balls and all of a sudden he gets fucckin' fresh"
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To further explain the abusurdity and near improbability:
Try and put together a diet in which you get 20 grams of Trans fat but not going over, lets say 2000 calories.
Easy cheaper baked cookies and muffins. And not to burst your bubbles but there has been thousands of studies done on the adverse effects of trans fat hence the reason the canadian government has made it mandoratory since the beginning of this year to label trans fat on all products. Really man saying trans fats aren't unhealthly thats like saying sugar does'nt cause cavities.
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Didn't read it all, no time. Found the GH gut answer interesting, but there's a good chance GH can cause smooth muscle hypertrophy. That's means the guts would never go away, regardless of how much people dieted.
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Didn't read it all, no time. Found the GH gut answer interesting, but there's a good chance GH can cause smooth muscle hypertrophy. That's means the guts would never go away, regardless of how much people dieted.
Gh and Insulin are two things that have absolutely no place in bodybuilding.
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Oh what the heck since you all know who I am now. This is when I was I think 23. It is a blow up of a small pic so sorry bout the quality. Just to prove that at one time I was a BBer. ;D
WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Who is that SEXY FELLA?!?!?!?!! ;)~~
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WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Who is that SEXY FELLA?!?!?!?!! ;)~~
I'm not falling for this one. ;D I think I know you. PM me if I do.
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Well, I've been training people for probably close to 20 years and have been in the game longer than that. My methods are somewhat controversial. As far back as the 80's even some of my workout buddies laughed at some of my methods but they stopped when they saw some of the people that started winning shows.
For example, so many people think that cardio is a must to get ripped. This is not always so. I do have people use it, but most of the time it is because mentally they feel the need. Personally I think that it is a waste of freaking energy that time could be well spent recovering from a hard workout. Also, people tend to get way too fat in the offseason. They also don't realize that they are burning plenty of calories by working out, assuming that they are not standing around wasting time between sets. Most people wait too long between sets anyway. If you just busted your ass working out for 45 min why in the hell do some feel the need to walk into oblivion on the treamill for another 30-60 min and run your body further into the ground? Like I said, I do use it sometimes, but in reality it is not needed to get ripped.
"why the hell do some feel the need to walk into oblivion on the treadmill for another 30-60 min??"
well, maybe because weight training uses stored sugars as its main fuel source........... and "steady -state" cardio at the proper target heartrate tends to use stored bodyfat for fuel???? call me crazy, but that may be the reason.
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"why the hell do some feel the need to walk into oblivion on the treadmill for another 30-60 min??"
well, maybe because weight training uses stored sugars as its main fuel source........... and "steady -state" cardio at the proper target heartrate tends to use stored bodyfat for fuel???? call me crazy, but that may be the reason.
You're crazy. ;D
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I find it interesting that GH is advocating no cardio as he pushes what illegal drugs to use instead
lol...GH, ever heard of training naturally? yeah yeah, I know..dinosaur..dieing out
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Didn't read it all, no time. Found the GH gut answer interesting, but there's a good chance GH can cause smooth muscle hypertrophy. That's means the guts would never go away, regardless of how much people dieted.
That is exactly what is happening. The entire abdomen and all muscles are growing.
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That is exactly what is happening. The entire abdomen and all muscles are growing.
fucker..didn't you read what disgusted wrote about visceral fat?
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You're crazy. ;D
so then doing cardio right after the gym won't use fat stores?
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fucker..didn't you read what disgusted wrote about visceral fat?
That is true also.
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so then doing cardio right after the gym won't use fat stores?
It is a myth.
It has more to do with caloric intake.
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so then doing cardio right after the gym won't use fat stores?
won't it be more fun to hump your girlfriend for 30 minutes instead? you will burn more calories if done right
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won't it be more fun to hump your girlfriend for 30 minutes instead? you will burn more calories if done right
Yes, it would. ;D
I am trying to cut out the later carbs and cut out soda more...since I've done it I've dropped 2%BF. I am just eating fruit and tuna (canned and fresh ;D) before I go to bed.
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What proove do we have that you need to take in more calories, then you burn to GAIN MUSCLE??? i think thats a myth, i believe you can loose fat, while gaining muscle also.
Why the hell not? PROTEIN is a musclebuilder, right? so get plenty of protein, and try to minimize your calories.
If calories build muscle, then you wouldnt need no protein. Then you could just drink coca cola tgo build mass. i doubt it.
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hahahaha, Frankie Two Times, hahahaha, "i just got out of the joint and i come in here and i'm just breaking balls and all of a sudden he gets fucckin' fresh"
" I got your fvckin shoesine right here!!!!"
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What proove do we have that you need to take in more calories, then you burn to GAIN MUSCLE??? i think thats a myth, i believe you can loose fat, while gaining muscle also.
Why the hell not? PROTEIN is a musclebuilder, right? so get plenty of protein, and try to minimize your calories.
If calories build muscle, then you wouldnt need no protein. Then you could just drink coca cola tgo build mass. i doubt it.
you need a proper combination of carbs and protein to build muscles...I would even argue that the carbs are more needed.
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What proove do we have that you need to take in more calories, then you burn to GAIN MUSCLE??? i think thats a myth, i believe you can loose fat, while gaining muscle also.
Why the hell not? PROTEIN is a musclebuilder, right? so get plenty of protein, and try to minimize your calories.
If calories build muscle, then you wouldnt need no protein. Then you could just drink coca cola tgo build mass. i doubt it.
There are alot of myths!
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There are alot of myths!
Is this one Joe?
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you need a proper combination of carbs and protein to build muscles...I would even argue that the carbs are more needed.
right now im trying to diet, what do i need the most now?
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you need a proper combination of carbs and protein to build muscles...I would even argue that the carbs are more needed.
Why? I love a good debate. ;D
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right now im trying to diet, what do i need the most now?
A good woman that isn't afraid of anal..and is possible down for a threesome
right there is 400cals/30 minutes
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A good woman that isn't afraid of anal..and is possible down for a threesome
right there is 400cals/30 minutes
you got a nice sister?
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Is this one Joe?
I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is trying to say :-\!
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I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is trying to say :-\!
when you re dieting what do you need the most, carbs or protein?
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Why? I love a good debate. ;D
it is not known fact that you don't need the amount of protein that everyone recommends for natural training. you can get by .5gr/lb and still build muscle. It is also known that the PWO shake must consist of malto or dextrin to assist in musle repair and growth
not my words from some articles that I have read online
"Regardless of the form, your body will convert carbs to the fuel (glucose) that it uses for energy production. Your muscles and brain require glucose for energy. Lacking glucose, muscles can burn fat for fuel, and they can store excess glucose as glycogen. Your brain, however, depends exclusively on a steady supply of glucose from the blood. No wonder our mood and behavior is affected by our blood sugar level!
"
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I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is trying to say :-\!
That you don't need to take in more calories than you burn to gain muscle. I have read alot of Hollywood stars go on extreme protein and moderate carbs diets to bulk up and drop BF. I read that CHristian Bale and the dude from Punisher did that. Dunno if it's true, I'm sure they had some AAS but it seems like it might work.
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Why? I love a good debate. ;D
it is my understanding that the body will consume whatever resources it has at hand and make the most of it.
as stated a proper mixture of carbs/pro is important, alot of guys are obsessed with consuming 1.5+/gr. Too much of anything will be converted into fat.
*I could bring up the guy in prison building muscle on a crap diet
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it is my understanding that the body will consume whatever resources it has at hand and make the most of it.
as stated a proper mixture of carbs/pro is important, alot of guys are obsessed with consuming 1.5+/gr. Too much of anything will be converted into fat
Yeah, but the body can only use protein to build muscle, not fat or carbs. Carbs are the least important of all macros.
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All this talk about different types of fat and all these people saying oh disguisting your a genuis, please a fifth grader could tell you that Kamila's problem was that hes to fat in the offseason. Oh and I suppose that Cardio doesn't burn fat now also well don't that to the millions of people that have lost substanial amounts of weight doing cardio. You boys will never cease to amaze me, better hope you don't find a "study" that claims that donkey piss will get you ripped.
Hi, Chad! ;D
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It's tough to restrict carbs but if it is only at night then I will probably be able to deal.
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when you re dieting what do you need the most, carbs or protein?
Really depends of what phase you are in before a show, protien should always be kept relatively high and the carb intake should be used to help manipulate BW, Protein for the bodybuilder has three uses, repair, build and to regulate water levels, carbs, as most of you know are your energy source and fats should always be kept low. When I diet or when I used to train bodybuilders I always preferred preferred cycling carb intake every 5 days, in otherwords, 4 days low 5th day high. Regulating calorie intake alone won't work for the bodybuilder or athlete, the it's the macros that need to be manipulated. I will however use a calorie controlled diet for the overweight people that are my gereral public clientel!
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Really depends of what phase you are in before a show, protien should always be kept relatively high and the carb intake should be used to help manipulate BW, Protein for the bodybuilder has three uses, repair, build and to regulate water levels, carbs, as most of you know are your energy source and fats should always be kept low. When I diet or when I used to train bodybuilders I always preferred preferred cycling carb intake every 5 days, in otherwords, 4 days low 5th day high. Regulating calorie intake alone won't work for the bodybuilder or athlete, the it's the macros that need to be manipulated. I will however use a calorie controlled diet for the overweight people that are my gereral public clientel!
How about when trying to gain muscle? Can you do the opposite and do 5 high carb days and two low ones?
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Yeah, but the body can only use protein to build muscle, not fat or carbs. Carbs are the least important of all macros.
Big D having read before that you had King eat more fats and less carbs. What was the source of the fats and did they change for different phases of his prep. Thanks
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All this talk about different types of fat and all these people saying oh disguisting your a genuis, please a fifth grader could tell you that Kamila's problem was that hes to fat in the offseason. Oh and I suppose that Cardio doesn't burn fat now also well don't that to the millions of people that have lost substanial amounts of weight doing cardio. You boys will never cease to amaze me, better hope you don't find a "study" that claims that donkey piss will get you ripped.
There's difference between losing weight and fat, please don't there, you obvously have no clue!
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There's difference between losing weight and fat, please don't there, you obvously have no clue!
So would fat be carbs and shit food?
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So would fat be carbs and shit food?
Too much of anything with convert to fat!
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... King eat more fats and less carbs. What was the source of the fats and did they change for different phases of his prep.
Knowing Kamali, probably Krispy Kreme.
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Too much of anything with convert to fat!
How about soda right after workouts like Cutler?
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So a beer has 150 calories, if a calorie is a calorie, I should be able to live on a 24 pack a day.
Get freakin real.
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It is a myth.
It has more to do with caloric intake.
wrong dude..
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How about soda right after workouts like Cutler?
I'm a firm believer in eating clean all the time (easier said than done) I don't know if that is what Cutler does but If so, I disagree, sounds like he's going for an insuline spike.
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wrong wrong wrong... 100 calories of red meat and 100 calories of honey are 2 differnt things.
The body burns calories digesting food.
Calorie is really a kcal which is 1,000 of a calorie and is only used to determine
Energy before food intake.
You all are wrong period.
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It's tough trying to bulk clean while being natural when the articles you read are from pros that juice and bulk in the offseason, not like how Arnold and Levrone used to do.
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I'm a firm believer in eating clean all the time (easier said than done) I don't know if that is what Cutler does but If so, I disagree, sounds like he's going for an insuline spike.
I see cutler train at golds on sahara. Never saw him with a coke, rice and turkey yes, a coke...NO!!!!!!!
I've seen cutler shop at whole foods here, he lives down the road from me.
Freaks
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It's tough trying to bulk clean while being natural when the articles you read are from pros that juice and bulk in the offseason, not like how Arnold and Levrone used to do.
Its all juice, and insulin and GH. If I used jay's diet, I'd be freakin fat. And I'm 6inches taller than him
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Its all juice, and insulin and GH. If I used jay's diet, I'd be freakin fat. And I'm 6inches taller than him
Ya, for sure. I'm cutting sodas (and I think it has helped) and am just eating protein after 6-7 pm. I dunno what to do because like I said, when you have advice from guys who will get big anyway, it is tough to know what exactly to do. I got my biggest just eating chicken, rice, tuna and shakes all the time.
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Adonis makes absolute comments on non absolute equations.
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I see cutler train at golds on sahara. Never saw him with a coke, rice and turkey yes, a coke...NO!!!!!!!
I've seen cutler shop at whole foods here, he lives down the road from me.
Freaks
What are you calling me a freak for.....I said I didn't know if that's what Cutler does!
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Ya, for sure. I'm cutting sodas (and I think it has helped) and am just eating protein after 6-7 pm. I dunno what to do because like I said, when you have advice from guys who will get big anyway, it is tough to know what exactly to do. I got my biggest just eating chicken, rice, tuna and shakes all the time.
And to do otherwise would result in excess fat, except for the genetically gifted. I have a friend who is black and he eats fried chicken and fatty steak and works out 1/3 "literally" than me and he is ripped! He has a good genetic code. I'm smarter than him though, so I don't feel as bad
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What are you calling me a freak for.....I said I didn't know if that's what Cutler does!
I'm reading fast, sorry bout if you took the insult personally, I'm generally speakin bout adonis.
He has good intentions, but I know he is dead wrong.
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And to do otherwise would result in excess fat, except for the genetically gifted. I have a friend who is black and he eats fried chicken and fatty steak and works out 1/3 "literally" than me and he is ripped! He has a good genetic code. I'm smarter than him though, so I don't feel as bad
but I bet that he is bangin' your girl behind your back..so don't feel too bad
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Ya, for sure. I'm cutting sodas (and I think it has helped) and am just eating protein after 6-7 pm. I dunno what to do because like I said, when you have advice from guys who will get big anyway, it is tough to know what exactly to do. I got my biggest just eating chicken, rice, tuna and shakes all the time.
you can do diet soda..flavored water with splenda
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but I bet that he is bangin' your girl behind your back..so don't feel too bad
That would be a sight.... I don't think so though.. Thanks for havin my back!
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you can do diet soda..flavored water with splenda
I even think diet retains water. In me anyway. Not spenda with green tea, but that equal and sweet and low.
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Blacks do get cut easier, I read that as a definitive statement.
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before this past olympia, I spotted jay in whole foods. I told him I had my money that he would win this year and inspected his shopping cart. His diet on his web site is SPOT MFing ON PERIOD... EZEKIEL and all!! Oh, he eats orange roughy fish, thats all.
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Blacks do get cut easier, I read that as a definitive statement.
lol...umm. that is so not true. Lets not go down this path, the thread started off on a good note.
lets keep it clean..ok?
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Blacks do get cut easier, I read that as a definitive statement.
Well a calorie is not a calorie than. Adonis must have a little brother in him if he actually follows his own advice.
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lol...umm. that is so not true. Lets not go down this path, the thread started off on a good note.
lets keep it clean..ok?
No really. I read it as where all others have to cut a large amount of carbs, african americans need to cut a certain type of fat. I swear it will not be "another one of those threads".
Anyway, I think am going to try the strategy of eating protein first in my meals and eating alot of carbs early on.
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Well a calorie is not a calorie than. Adonis must have a little brother in him if he actually follows his own advice.
then why is being over weight so prevalent in the black community?
as with most races black have their fair share of fat asses.
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All I have to say is drink beer, even on a calorie deficiant diet, only drink lets say 18 beers a day.. you will get bloated and lose size period. Ever seen a homeless alchohalic ripped? Hek no...
You need the nutrients.
I'm goin to bed. good night all
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then why is being over weight so prevalent in the black community?
as with most races black have their fair share of fat asses.
Fast food man, fast food. All the fat people I see of all races eat that shit like crazy. Even with good ass genetics you will get fat off it.
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Fast food man, fast food. All the fat people I see of all races eat that shit like crazy. Even with good ass genetics you will get fat off it.
not true..there is one white that lives in the south that defies logic
his name is TA.. lol
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not true..there is one white that lives in the south that defies logic
his name is TA.. lol
Hey, wasn't he on Supersize me? Lol....anyone who thinks that is retarded
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Hey, wasn't he on Supersize me? Lol....anyone who thinks that is retarded
NO, true adonis = stupid-size me
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Adonis's principals are outdated...You need to follow daddywaddys dieting advice... ;D
DaddyWaddy eats like 6000 calories while he diets... :o
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Fast food man, fast food. All the fat people I see of all races eat that shit like crazy. Even with good ass genetics you will get fat off it.
I am living proof and my Case Study on MD will also be proof....Along with many others that you will see.
Chainsaw is full of shit by the way.
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I am living proof and my Case Study on MD will also be proof....Along with many others that you will see.
Chainsaw is full of shit by the way.
Nobody believes you bullshit here kid...Thats why you lost an extra 7-8 LBS of muscle while dieting for the Mr. getbig..
What a fucking tool you are..
No wonder naturals get discouarged and stop lifting.. :o
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I am living proof and my Case Study on MD will also be proof....Along with many others that you will see.
Chainsaw is full of shit by the way.
Not exactly a clinical case study, but if it worked for you, cool!
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Nobody believes you bullshit here kid...Thats why you lost an extra 7-8 LBS of muscle while dieting for the Mr. getbig..
What a fucking tool you are..
No wonder naturals get discouarged and stop lifting.. :o
Tell me, where has the "lost muscle" gone?
According to your reasoning, it would have came back by now.
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Fact is, I lost ZERO.
Barring disease or medical condition,Muscle is nearly impossible to lose when constantly training and in a static Gravitational enviroment.
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While "a calorie is a colorie" may be oversimplifying it, TA is right about one thing... in bodybuilding, people tend to place WAY too much importance on macros. It's nowhere near as complicated as everyone tries to make it.
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While "a calorie is a colorie" may be oversimplifying it, TA is right about one thing... in bodybuilding, people tend to place WAY too much importance on macros. It's nowhere near as complicated as everyone tries to make it.
yep
caloric defecit equals weight, combined with continuing to lift heavy and you should be good.
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Fact is, I lost ZERO.
Barring disease or medical condition,Muscle is nearly impossible to lose when constantly training and in a static Gravitational enviroment.
BMI......before and after!
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While "a calorie is a colorie" may be oversimplifying it, TA is right about one thing... in bodybuilding, people tend to place WAY too much importance on macros. It's nowhere near as complicated as everyone tries to make it.
Adonis has some very valid points...And makes a lot of sense sometimes..
However, some of his points are way offbase...
And he never talks about Insulin and how important it is to a diet..
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BMI......before and after!
BMI measurement is total garbage.
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DaddyWaddy eats like 6000 calories while he diets... :o
I hope he hasn't adopted the true bodybuilding lifestyle in order to acheive the ungodly calorie amount... no pun intended!!! ;D
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BMI measurement is total garbage.
Adonis apparently needs help bulking....He got fat as shit last time..And hardly made any new gains from his previous pictures he posted dieted down..
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So could I still add muscle with less carbs and ramped up protein?
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So could I still add muscle with less carbs and ramped up protein?
Keep your protein moderately high, fats will automatically be were they need to be if you are eating quality protein sources. Red meat, eggs (whole) chicken, turkey and tuna to a lesser degree. Keep your carbs only as high as they need to be without getting fat.
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Keep your protein moderately high, fats will automatically be were they need to be if you are eating quality protein sources. Red meat, eggs (whole) chicken, turkey and tuna to a lesser degree. Keep your carbs only as high as they need to be without getting fat.
You don't like tuna?
When you say as high as they need to be, 2g per lb bodyweight?
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You don't like tuna?
When you say as high as they need to be, 2g per lb bodyweight?
Only on gear and even thats pushing it!
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Only on gear and even thats pushing it!
For carbs or protein? I'll take advice on both. Is tuna bad bc of the mercury or something else?
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You don't like tuna?
When you say as high as they need to be, 2g per lb bodyweight?
That's kinda high. About 1.5 is good.
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For carbs or protein? I'll take advice on both. Is tuna bad bc of the mercury or something else?
For protein!
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Yea I never monitored carbs. I always tried to get 1.5 for protein but I gues doing that for carbs and protein will work.
For protein!
Then what about carbs Joe?
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That's kinda high. About 1.5 is good.
1.5 grams of carbs is way to high while dieting.. >:(
I'm assuming disgusted was talking about protein ???
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Fact is, I lost ZERO.
Barring disease or medical condition,Muscle is nearly impossible to lose when constantly training and in a static Gravitational enviroment.
Where teh hell do you get those stupid ideas from? Unless you have a proof of what you're saying - you have no credibility whatsoever! I hope that people have enough commom sense not to listen to you crab!
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1.5 grams of carbs is way to high while dieting.. >:(
I'm assuming disgusted was talking about protein ???
Yeah protein
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1.5 grams of carbs is way to high while dieting.. >:(
I'm assuming disgusted was talking about protein ???
I'm not dieting for a show. I just want clean bulk while adding lean muscle. I know it sounds dumb but I think even cutting the bodyfat will make me look more impressive.
Yeah protein
So then what for carbs?
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I'm not dieting for a show. I just want clean bulk while adding lean muscle. I know it sounds dumb but I think even cutting the bodyfat will make me look more impressive.
So then what for carbs?
No such thing as bulking. Just added muscle although you can add fat too so be careful. Tuna imo does not rank too high as a quality protein. Carbs can be rice, oats, potatoes ect.
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No such thing as bulking. Just added muscle although you can add fat too so be careful. Tuna imo does not rank too high as a quality protein. Carbs can be rice, oats, potatoes ect.
Ya, gotcha. I want to add the muscle with little fat.
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Yeah, but the body can only use protein to build muscle, not fat or carbs. Carbs are the least important of all macros.
::) yea eat low carb year round and see how strong you are in the gym.
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That's kinda high. About 1.5 [grams of protein per lb bodyweight] is good.
TA why are you endorsing this guy? 1.5g is total overkill. He may be the best of the gurus but this is still total crap.
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Keep your protein moderately high, fats will automatically be were they need to be if you are eating quality protein sources. Red meat, eggs (whole) chicken, turkey and tuna to a lesser degree.
Why on earth would you want to be eating saturated animal fat (red meat, whole eggs)? Maybe strictly from a bodybuilding perspective it won't hurt you if your total calories are right, but for health that stuff is terrible. My protein sources are chicken breasts, seafood (all kinds, except canned tuna which I hate), egg whites, and whey isolate.
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i love steak and chicken... i hate tuna but it is cheap at Costco
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Why on earth would you want to be eating saturated animal fat (red meat, whole eggs)? Maybe strictly from a bodybuilding perspective it won't hurt you if your total calories are right, but for health that stuff is terrible. My protein sources are chicken breasts, seafood (all kinds, except canned tuna which I hate), egg whites, and whey isolate.
You have zero idea of what you speak about. I could not even begin to tell you why because it would take up a book. There are plenty of real world medical studies that have come out within the last few years that prove your theories to be WRONG!!!! I have done literally hundreds of hours of reading on this subject. Do some research for once.
And I will add this! I would advocate eating like this for longevity FIRST!!!!!! Not just to build muscle. The long term studies that have been done support this type of diet for long term health and longevity.
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::) yea eat low carb year round and see how strong you are in the gym.
Where in my post do I say eat low carb in the offseason? ???
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Where in my post do I say eat low carb in the offseason? ???
You didn't get the imaginary post powers yet? Come on Disgusted. ;D
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TA why are you endorsing this guy? 1.5g is total overkill. He may be the best of the gurus but this is still total crap.
Fair enough. Would you care to explain why you say this?
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Why on earth would you want to be eating saturated animal fat (red meat, whole eggs)? Maybe strictly from a bodybuilding perspective it won't hurt you if your total calories are right, but for health that stuff is terrible. My protein sources are chicken breasts, seafood (all kinds, except canned tuna which I hate), egg whites, and whey isolate.
You're wasting your time, Jimmy....
Realize, you're trying to reason with a guy who calls himself Goatboy, spends countless hours on a BB site, and has never had the balls to step on stage....
FUGGETABOUDDIT!!
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You have zero idea of what you speak about. I could not even begin to tell you why because it would take up a book. There are plenty of real world medical studies that have come out within the last few years that prove your theories to be WRONG!!!! I have done literally hundreds of hours of reading on this subject. Do some research for once.
And I will add this! I would advocate eating like this for longevity FIRST!!!!!! Not just to build muscle. The long term studies that have been done support this type of diet for long term health and longevity.
They're not MY "theories", they're pretty much conventional wisdom in the medical community. Of course, like anything related to nutrition, there are people who feel otherwise, and issues are sometimes hotly debated with studies on all sides of an issue..
Just for shits and giggles, how about posting a few links to info supporting what you say, and I'll be happy to read it.
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You're wasting your time, Jimmy....
Realize, you're trying to reason with a guy who calls himself Goatboy, spends countless hours on a BB site, and has never had the balls to step on stage....
FUGGETABOUDDIT!!
Damn, I forgot for a second who I had responded to. :P Thanks for the reminder. ;D Oh, and congrats to you and your wife on your new baby!!
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You're wasting your time, Jimmy....
Realize, you're trying to reason with a guy who calls himself Goatboy, spends countless hours on a BB site, and has never had the balls to step on stage....
FUGGETABOUDDIT!!
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Jim, this guy wants your services for his country's national BBing championship. He only has one question.
HOW MUCH??
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Outstanding...!! Your 278th post of the bagdad Bob pic.
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Fair enough. Would you care to explain why you say this?
I think 1.5 is too much for a Natural.
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Let me also add that for some reason, people tend to view the body in ONLY 24 hour increments which is silly.
24 hours just dictates the rotation of the earth, nothing more.
One should not apply the same standard when it comes to the human body.
Humans can certainly broaden their "amounts" to eat and apply them accordingly as an organism.
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Damn, I forgot for a second who I had responded to. :P Thanks for the reminder. ;D
You're the one saying "eat red meat for health", and you're acting like I'm the one who said something unconventional and off-the-wall? There was no need for you to get defensive... my original post wasn't attacking you. ::)
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What do you use for measuring time on your planet?
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You're the one saying "eat red meat for health", and you're acting like I'm the one who said something unconventional and off-the-wall? There was no need for you to get defensive... my original post wasn't attacking you. ::)
NOTHING is harmful if you are in a slight caloric defecit.
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Outstanding...!! Your 278th post of the bagdad Bob pic.
Make that 279, douchebag.
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I think 1.5 is too much for a Natural.
1.5 is not written on stone. There are people who get by with a lot less. I recommend about 230 gr for a 180 pound guy so that's about 1.25 or slightly more off that top of my head. When I diet people for shows I go VERY low carb so I tend to keep the protein higher alothough I do not consider it a high protein diet persay.
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War of the Words part I
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Make that 279, douchebag.
Attaboy!
You're like the fuckin retard in H.S. that kept telling the same joke everyday and wondering why no one was laughing and wanted to beat the crap out of him....
Then again...you probably were that guy.
Nevermind.
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NOTHING is harmful if you are in a slight caloric defecit.
You do know that the carcinogenic chemicals produced by our modern industrial society are found at higher concentrations in animal fat than in any other place in the food chain? It's not a coincidence that places with the highest consumption of red meat also tend to have the highest cancer rates.
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What do you use for measuring time on your planet?
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
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You're the one saying "eat red meat for health", and you're acting like I'm the one who said something unconventional and off-the-wall? There was no need for you to get defensive... my original post wasn't attacking you. ::)
You hit a nerve. ;D What I do get pissed about is the agenda that the pharmaceutical companies have. They have turned Dr's into nothing more than drug pushers. The public has been duped into believing that a low fat diet will cure all that ails you. People are eating tons of needless amounts of sugar and refined carbs and turing into diabetics at an alarming rate. You never heard of heart disease 100 years ago. People are NOT living longer today. Infant mortality is way down which brings the average up. You grand parents did not eat hohos for dessert. The average person eats about 120 pounds of sugar a year, up about 100 pounds from a hundred years ago. Enough, I could go on forever. :-X
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You do know that the carcinogenic chemicals produced by our modern industrial society are found at higher concentrations in animal fat than in any other place in the food chain? It's not a coincidence that places with the highest consumption of red meat also tend to have the highest cancer rates.
There are too many variables to narrow your above statement to red meat.
Sorry, it just doesn`t work.
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You do know that the carcinogenic chemicals produced by our modern industrial society are found at higher concentrations in animal fat than in any other place in the food chain? It's not a coincidence that places with the highest consumption of red meat also tend to have the highest cancer rates.
Do some research. The cancer rate go way up when cholesterol leverls go down too far. So do other diseases.
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You hit a nerve. ;D What I do get pissed about is the agenda that the pharmaceutical companies have. They have turned Dr's into nothing more than drug pushers. The public has been duped into believing that a low fat diet will cure all that ails you. People are eating tons of needless amounts of sugar and refined carbs and turing into diabetics at an alarming rate. You never heard of heart disease 100 years ago. People are NOT living longer today. Infant mortality is way down which brings the average up. You grand parents did not eat hohos for dessert. The average person eats about 120 pounds of sugar a year, up about 100 pounds from a hundred years ago. Enough, I could go on forever. :-X
Very insightful and interesting post. I did not know that. Thanks.
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There are too many variables to narrow your above statement to red meat.
True, the preferred way to eat would be vegan, but since that's not very compatable with bodybuilding, avoiding fatty meat is the next best bet.
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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Apparently time was not an illusion for this guy. He died at 49. ???
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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
As I was walking down the street one day,A man came up to me and asked me what the time was that was on my watch, yeah...And I said....
Does anybody really know what time it is
Does anybody really care
If so I cant imagine why
Weve all got time enough to cry
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Apparently time was not an illusion for this guy. He died at 49. ???
I guess for him, time as a DElusion... *groan*
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You hit a nerve. ;D What I do get pissed about is the agenda that the pharmaceutical companies have. They have turned Dr's into nothing more than drug pushers. The public has been duped into believing that a low fat diet will cure all that ails you. People are eating tons of needless amounts of sugar and refined carbs and turing into diabetics at an alarming rate. You never heard of heart disease 100 years ago. People are NOT living longer today. Infant mortality is way down which brings the average up. You grand parents did not eat hohos for dessert. The average person eats about 120 pounds of sugar a year, up about 100 pounds from a hundred years ago. Enough, I could go on forever. :-X
They have been duped about Trans Fats
Duped about High Protein
Duped about Carbohydrates being bad
Duped about Carbohydrates other than "complex" as bad
Duped about Fast Food
Duped by just about everything.
I could go on for hours with this list.
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You hit a nerve. ;D What I do get pissed about is the agenda that the pharmaceutical companies have. They have turned Dr's into nothing more than drug pushers. The public has been duped into believing that a low fat diet will cure all that ails you. People are eating tons of needless amounts of sugar and refined carbs and turing into diabetics at an alarming rate. You never heard of heart disease 100 years ago. People are NOT living longer today. Infant mortality is way down which brings the average up. You grand parents did not eat hohos for dessert. The average person eats about 120 pounds of sugar a year, up about 100 pounds from a hundred years ago. Enough, I could go on forever. :-X
I agree with you 100% on the refined carbs/sugar. You also need a certain amount of fat in your diet to get EFA's, but why can't it come from nuts, seeds, olives, olive oil, avocados, coconuts, and fish rather than red meat?
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I agree with you 100% on the refined carbs/sugar. You also need a certain amount of fat in your diet to get EFA's, but why can't it come from nuts, seeds, olives, olive oil, avocados, coconuts, and fish rather than red meat?
You can. I'm just saying that red meat is not the enemy that it is made out to be. If you are worried about chemicals and hormones then buy organic. Most all veggies are laiden with chemicals too. Hell, everything we eat has gone to shit. Even the air we breath, we're all FUC#$KED! I need a xanax. :-\
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They have been duped about Trans Fats
Duped about High Protein
Duped about Carbohydrates being bad
Duped about Carbohydrates other than "complex" as bad
Duped about Fast Food
Duped by just about everything.
I could go on for hours with this list.
There is definitely a lot out there that's bogus.
Let's face it... no other creature thinks any kind of food is "bad" for you...
Food is food... you eat too much of anything and it's bad... Drink too much water, you die...
It's all good and it CAN all be bad... just be reasonable and don't be neurotic... You should still want to live life... eat a big mac once in a while... fuck... it TASTES good!
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... eat a big mac once in a while... f**k... it TASTES good!
Why would I do that? I would have to physically go to a McDonald's. :o Do you know what kind of people eat there? No, thank you.
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Apparently time was not an illusion for this guy. He died at 49. ???
Douglas Adams isn`t just SOME guy!!!!!! A true GENIUS!!
Douglas Noël Adams (11 March 1952 – 11 May 2001) was a British author, comic radio dramatist, and amateur musician. He is known most notably as author of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. Hitchhiker's began on radio, and developed into a "trilogy" of five books (which sold more than fifteen million copies during his lifetime) as well as a television series, a towel, a comic book series, a computer game and a feature film that was completed after Adams's death. He was known to some fans as Bop Ad (after his illegible signature), or by his initials "DNA".[2]
In addition to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams wrote or co-wrote three stories of the science fiction television series Doctor Who, and served the series as Script Editor during the seventeenth season. His other written works include the Dirk Gently novels, and co-author credits on two Liff books and Last Chance to See, itself based on a radio series. Adams also originated the idea for the computer game Starship Titanic, which was realized by a company that Adams co-founded, and adapted into a novel by Terry Jones. A posthumous collection of essays and other material, including an incomplete novel, was published as The Salmon of Doubt in 2002.
His fans and friends also knew Adams as an environmental activist, a self-described "radical atheist" and a lover of fast cars, cameras, the Macintosh computer, and other "techno gizmos." He was a keen technologist, using such inventions as e-mail and Usenet before they became widely popular, or even widely known.
Toward the end of his life, he was a sought-after lecturer on topics including technology and the environment. Since his death at the age of 49, he is still widely revered in science fiction and fantasy fandom circles.
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Why would I do that? I would have to physically go to a McDonald's. :o Do you know what kind of people eat there? No, thank you.
Movie Stars, Dictators, Presidents, The True Adonis, other scientists.
Trust me,
You are in great company.
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Douglas Adams isn`t just SOME guy!!!!!! A true GENIUS!!
TA idolizes a science fiction writer. ::)
Here's a group of people you'd fit right in with: www.cultofidiots.com (http://www.scientology.com)
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Why would I do that? I would have to physically go to a McDonald's. :o Do you know what kind of people eat there? No, thank you.
It's the most frequently visited restaurant on the PLANET... you might be the only person who NEVER goes there.
Although, I'm sure when you were a kid, you loved those chicken macnuggets... admit it.
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Well, I've been training people for probably close to 20 years and have been in the game longer than that. My methods are somewhat controversial. As far back as the 80's even some of my workout buddies laughed at some of my methods but they stopped when they saw some of the people that started winning shows.
For example, so many people think that cardio is a must to get ripped. This is not always so. I do have people use it, but most of the time it is because mentally they feel the need. Personally I think that it is a waste of freaking energy that time could be well spent recovering from a hard workout. Also, people tend to get way too fat in the offseason. They also don't realize that they are burning plenty of calories by working out, assuming that they are not standing around wasting time between sets. Most people wait too long between sets anyway. If you just busted your ass working out for 45 min why in the hell do some feel the need to walk into oblivion on the treamill for another 30-60 min and run your body further into the ground? Like I said, I do use it sometimes, but in reality it is not needed to get ripped.
i think i need to hire you
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Disgusted was wondering if you would answer the question about what the proper or best source of fats are on a competition type diet? Also the times best to consume these fats, Im thinking fats before bed may not be the best idea.
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NOTHING is harmful if you are in a slight caloric defecit.
Live on beer on a caloric deficit.
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you might be the only person who NEVER goes there.
I don't know anyone who goes there. But then again, I'm not a 20-something meathead or an "average American" fatass either.
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I don't know anyone who goes there. But then again, I'm not a 20-something meathead or an "average American" fatass either.
Don't get out much, do ya'?
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Disgusted was wondering if you would answer the question about what the proper or best source of fats are on a competition type diet? Also the times best to consume these fats, Im thinking fats before bed may not be the best idea.
What part of this DON`T you understand????????????????????
If you are in a CALORIC DEFECIT ie. COMPETITION DIET, you use every calorie you ingest as are tapping into fat stores.
It matter fuck not, WHEN you eat fats.
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What part of this DON`T you understand????????????????????
If you are in a CALORIC DEFECIT ie. COMPETITION DIET, you use every calorie you ingest as are tapping into fat stores.
It matter f**k not, WHEN you eat fats.
Show me clinical case studies!
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I don't know anyone who goes there. But then again, I'm not a 20-something meathead or an "average American" fatass either.
I used to think like that, then I realized... Fuck a quarter pounder with cheese is good every couple of months.
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You hit a nerve. ;D What I do get pissed about is the agenda that the pharmaceutical companies have. They have turned Dr's into nothing more than drug pushers. The public has been duped into believing that a low fat diet will cure all that ails you. People are eating tons of needless amounts of sugar and refined carbs and turing into diabetics at an alarming rate. You never heard of heart disease 100 years ago. People are NOT living longer today. Infant mortality is way down which brings the average up. You grand parents did not eat hohos for dessert. The average person eats about 120 pounds of sugar a year, up about 100 pounds from a hundred years ago. Enough, I could go on forever. :-X
Actually, people are living longer these days, and (Listen up Goatboy) this is the primary reason we are having increases in the numbers of cancers. Just a simple correlation of numbers.
/just sayin'. please go back to your mud slinging
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Show me clinical case studies!
Laws of Thermodynamics
Energy exists in many forms, such as heat, light, chemical energy, and electrical energy. Energy is the ability to bring about change or to do work. Thermodynamics is the study of energy.
First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another. Click here for another page (developed by Dr. John Pratte, Clayton State Univ., GA) covering thermodynamics.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that "in all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state." This is also commonly referred to as entropy. A watchspring-driven watch will run until the potential energy in the spring is converted, and not again until energy is reapplied to the spring to rewind it. A car that has run out of gas will not run again until you walk 10 miles to a gas station and refuel the car. Once the potential energy locked in carbohydrates is converted into kinetic energy (energy in use or motion), the organism will get no more until energy is input again. In the process of energy transfer, some energy will dissipate as heat. Entropy is a measure of disorder: cells are NOT disordered and so have low entropy. The flow of energy maintains order and life. Entropy wins when organisms cease to take in energy and die.
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Laws of Thermodynamics
Energy exists in many forms, such as heat, light, chemical energy, and electrical energy. Energy is the ability to bring about change or to do work. Thermodynamics is the study of energy.
First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another. Click here for another page (developed by Dr. John Pratte, Clayton State Univ., GA) covering thermodynamics.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that "in all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state." This is also commonly referred to as entropy. A watchspring-driven watch will run until the potential energy in the spring is converted, and not again until energy is reapplied to the spring to rewind it. A car that has run out of gas will not run again until you walk 10 miles to a gas station and refuel the car. Once the potential energy locked in carbohydrates is converted into kinetic energy (energy in use or motion), the organism will get no more until energy is input again. In the process of energy transfer, some energy will dissipate as heat. Entropy is a measure of disorder: cells are NOT disordered and so have low entropy. The flow of energy maintains order and life. Entropy wins when organisms cease to take in energy and die.
are you saying the human body will get no usable glucose from anywhere else within the body if it's glucose stores are fully depleted?
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are you saying the human body will get no usable glucose from anywhere else within the body if it's glucose stores are fully depleted?
It will then be powered by Fat. Which is stored :)
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Laws of Thermodynamics
Energy exists in many forms, such as heat, light, chemical energy, and electrical energy. Energy is the ability to bring about change or to do work. Thermodynamics is the study of energy.
First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another. Click here for another page (developed by Dr. John Pratte, Clayton State Univ., GA) covering thermodynamics.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that "in all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state." This is also commonly referred to as entropy. A watchspring-driven watch will run until the potential energy in the spring is converted, and not again until energy is reapplied to the spring to rewind it. A car that has run out of gas will not run again until you walk 10 miles to a gas station and refuel the car. Once the potential energy locked in carbohydrates is converted into kinetic energy (energy in use or motion), the organism will get no more until energy is input again. In the process of energy transfer, some energy will dissipate as heat. Entropy is a measure of disorder: cells are NOT disordered and so have low entropy. The flow of energy maintains order and life. Entropy wins when organisms cease to take in energy and die.
Copy and pasting the laws of thermodynamics is not a case study.
Thermodynamics explains that any body with a temperature above absolute zero will radiate its energy away.
Yes, food is energy, but how the body gains the energy (calories, and what macronutrient source they come from) will have an effect on how that energy is utilized.
The essence of the second law of thermodynamics is that it guarantees inefficiency in all metabolic processes. However, variation of efficiency is not excluded. In fact, the laws of thermodynamics are silent on the existence of variable efficiency. If efficiency can vary (as in the example of oxidative uncoupling) then "a calorie is a calorie" is no longer a true statement.
The presence of high quantities of protein in your diet can stimulate protein turnover, an energetically costly process.
Your "case study" has essentially proven your theory that "a calorie is a calorie" to be false.
I know your whole "Schtick" is to post ridiculous things to get people wound up though, so I'll stay out of it from now on.
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Copy and pasting the laws of thermodynamics is not a case study.
Thermodynamics explains that any body with a temperature above absolute zero will radiate its energy away.
Yes, food is energy, but how the body gains the energy (calories, and what macronutrient source they come from) will have an effect on how that energy is utilized.
The essence of the second law of thermodynamics is that it guarantees inefficiency in all metabolic processes. However, variation of efficiency is not excluded. In fact, the laws of thermodynamics are silent on the existence of variable efficiency. If efficiency can vary (as in the example of oxidative uncoupling) then "a calorie is a calorie" is no longer a true statement.
The presence of high quantities of protein in your diet can stimulate protein turnover, an energetically costly process.
Your "case study" has essentially proven your theory that "a calorie is a calorie" to be false.
I know your whole "Schtick" is to post ridiculous things to get people wound up though, so I'll stay out of it from now on.
Clearly you haven`t grapsed The Laws of Thermodynamics.
I can`t make it any simpler than what was posted.
IN A CALORIC DEFECIT, ALL CALORIES ARE USED, NONE ARE STORED.
FAT IS THEN USED AS A VIABLE SOURCE SINCE IT IS STORED!
If you need help understanding The Laws of Thermodynamics, you can either PM me, or state your question and I will answer and provide sources as well.
I can try and help you understand them.
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Why are we not surprised to see you exhibit, yet again, a fascination with homosexual acts?
worthless post
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Clearly you haven`t grapsed The Laws of Thermodynamics.
I can`t make it any simpler than what was posted.
IN A CALORIC DEFECIT, ALL CALORIES ARE USED, NONE ARE STORED.
FAT IS THEN USED AS A VIABLE SOURCE SINCE IT IS STORED!
If you need help understanding The Laws of Thermodynamics, you can either PM me, or state your question and I will answer and provide sources as well.
I can try and help you understand them.
I haven't been following the "adonis method" so bear with me...
Are you saying so long as there is a deficit it doesn't matter what is eaten?
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Clearly you haven`t grapsed The Laws of Thermodynamics.
I can`t make it any simpler than what was posted.
IN A CALORIC DEFECIT, ALL CALORIES ARE USED, NONE ARE STORED.
FAT IS THEN USED AS A VIABLE SOURCE SINCE IT IS STORED!
If you need help understanding The Laws of Thermodynamics, you can either PM me, or state your question and I will answer and provide sources as well.
I can try and help you understand them.
Adam,
I know you're just in this for the laughs. But, your use of the "laws of thermodynamics" to explain why a calorie is a calorie is the first thing people looked for to back that belief. It was obvious very quickly that those laws didn't hold true. There are still people hoping to prove your point out there, but they've moved past basic thermodynamics.
Uncoupling of proteins by the mitochondria (which is potentially the most potent form of energy (heat) loss in the body) doesn't follow the laws of thermodynamics.
In a calorie defiicit, weight loss will occur. But, where that weight loss will come from will vary greatly depending on the macronutrients ingested.
if weight loss is the one and only goal (irrespective of where that loss comes from) then a hypocaloric diet will obviously work.
The form of macronutrients digested, and how they are utilized by the body will play a role in what form that weight loss comes from (IE: fat, muscle, water, etc)
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Adam,
I know you're just in this for the laughs. But, your use of the "laws of thermodynamics" to explain why a calorie is a calorie is the first thing people looked for to back that belief. It was obvious very quickly that those laws didn't hold true. There are still people hoping to prove your point out there, but they've moved past basic thermodynamics.
Uncoupling of proteins by the mitochondria (which is potentially the most potent form of energy (heat) loss in the body) doesn't follow the laws of thermodynamics.
In a calorie defiicit, weight loss will occur. But, where that weight loss will come from will vary greatly depending on the macronutrients ingested.
if weight loss is the one and only goal (irrespective of where that loss comes from) then a hypocaloric diet will obviously work.
The form of macronutrients digested, and how they are utilized by the body will play a role in what form that weight loss comes from (IE: fat, muscle, water, etc)
you're letting it get to you......
TA, that does not break our truce, I just know where this is going....it'll be page after page of bickering.....
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Adam,
I know you're just in this for the laughs. But, your use of the "laws of thermodynamics" to explain why a calorie is a calorie is the first thing people looked for to back that belief. It was obvious very quickly that those laws didn't hold true. There are still people hoping to prove your point out there, but they've moved past basic thermodynamics.
Uncoupling of proteins by the mitochondria (which is potentially the most potent form of energy (heat) loss in the body) doesn't follow the laws of thermodynamics.
In a calorie defiicit, weight loss will occur. But, where that weight loss will come from will vary greatly depending on the macronutrients ingested.
if weight loss is the one and only goal (irrespective of where that loss comes from) then a hypocaloric diet will obviously work.
The form of macronutrients digested, and how they are utilized by the body will play a role in what form that weight loss comes from (IE: fat, muscle, water, etc)
I`m not.
I know the faulty study of Feinman.
You need to educate yourself a bit further.
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Adam,
I know you're just in this for the laughs. But, your use of the "laws of thermodynamics" to explain why a calorie is a calorie is the first thing people looked for to back that belief. It was obvious very quickly that those laws didn't hold true. There are still people hoping to prove your point out there, but they've moved past basic thermodynamics.
Uncoupling of proteins by the mitochondria (which is potentially the most potent form of energy (heat) loss in the body) doesn't follow the laws of thermodynamics.
In a calorie defiicit, weight loss will occur. But, where that weight loss will come from will vary greatly depending on the macronutrients ingested.
if weight loss is the one and only goal (irrespective of where that loss comes from) then a hypocaloric diet will obviously work.
The form of macronutrients digested, and how they are utilized by the body will play a role in what form that weight loss comes from (IE: fat, muscle, water, etc)
You are also forgetting about the effect of Gravity and resistance on protein synthesis.
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Also don`t try to mislead people as Feinman notes: We have previously presented arguments that there is no violation of physical principles [2,7] and, ironically, that suggesting a change in body mass to be independent of macronutrient composition would itself be a violation of the second law of thermodynamics [7].
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The problem with trying to use Feinman`s study is that he has an agenda.
His brother markets a well known Low-Carb diet.
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adams scampers to google to find a rebuttal..he will be gone for a minute
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Low-carb diets get thermodynamic defence
Biochemists argue that food calories are not all equal.
by Helen Pearson
news@nature.com
Print this article Register for updates when new articles are posted Discuss this article
The fiery debate over the worth of low-carb regimes is being fuelled by two US researchers. They are using the laws of thermodynamics to argue that calories from protein are better for losing weight than those from carbohydrates.
The idea that eating a diet rich in protein will help you shed more pounds than one stuffed with carbs is driving a vast diet industry. But many nutritionists dispute this view, saying that a calorie is a calorie regardless of where it comes from. Formally, a calorie is the amount of energy needed to heat one kilogram of water by 1ºC.
Now Richard Feinman of the State University of New York and Eugene Fine of Jacobi Medical Center in New York are turning to physics to assert that calories differ. They use the laws of thermodynamics: fundamental rules that describe how heat, work and energy change in a system.
The first law of thermodynamics says that energy is always conserved. In slimming terms, this means that protein, fat and carbohydrate calories are equivalent because none of their energy is magically destroyed when you eat them. Feinman and Fine are not arguing with this idea.
“To say a calorie is a calorie all the time is false.”
Richard Feinman
State University of New York
But the second law of thermodynamics says that energy spontaneously disperses if it is not hindered. Feinman and Fine point out that protein and carbohydrate are metabolized in different ways and their energy is therefore dispersed in different forms. When protein is broken down by the body, for example, more energy is released as heat than is converted into chemical energy.
The upshot of their argument is that, while a hunk of steak and a slice of bread may carry equal calories, the amount of energy the body actually gleans from them, to fuel movement or store as fat, is different. "To say a calorie is a calorie all the time is false," says Feinman.
Energy burn
“The epidemic of obesity isn't a small biochemical defect," he says, "it's large portions of food eaten by inactive people.”
George Bray
Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge
The theoretical argument has some experimental support. In 2002, Arne Astrup of Denmark's Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Copenhagen, and his team put 12 men in a room and measured precisely how much energy each burned when fed different diets. Those on a regimen rich in pork protein burned 4% more energy than those on a higher carbohydrate diet, the team found, because they lost more energy as heat. So Astrup says he agrees with Feinman "to some extent".
But when it comes to dieting, Astrup and other experts say that Feinman is missing the point. Even if protein and carbohydrate are processed differently in the body, what really matters is whether low-carb diets actually help people lose more weight than other eating plans.
In this regard, studies are scant and conflicting. Some of the best evidence comes from two trials published in the New England Journal of Medicine in May 2003, which showed that those on a low-carb, high-protein diet shed around three times as much weight as those on a low-fat diet after six months. However, the difference was minimal after a year,.
The main reason that some people shed extra weight on a low-carb diet is because they eat fewer calories overall, experts say, probably because protein makes them feel more full. They may also stick to the diet more rigidly or for a longer time.
Compared with these factors, any differences in the way the different foods are metabolized are negligible, argues George Bray, an authority on obesity at Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge. "The epidemic of obesity isn't due to a small biochemical defect," he says, "it's due to large portions of food eaten by inactive people."
Food science and nutrition researcher Donald Layman of Illinois State University in Urbana-Champaign argues that different diets suit different people. Eventually, decisions about which regime is most appropriate will be based on a range of health factors, such as risk of heart disease or diabetes. "That to me is where nutrition is going," Layman says.
1 Feinman R. D. & Fine E. J. Nutrition Journal 3, 9. (2004).
2 Mikkelsen P. B., Toubro S. & Astrup A. A. Am J Clin Nutr, 72. 1135 - 1141 (2000).
3 Samaha F. F, et al. N Engl J Med, 348. 2074 - 2081 (2003).
4 Foster G. D., et al. N Engl J Med l, 348. 2082 - 2090 (2003).
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The problem with trying to use Feinman`s study is that he has an agenda.
His brother markets a well known Low-Carb diet.
I don't know who Feinman is.
I don't follow low carb diets.
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HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AA
Adonis telling one of the most knowledeable guy in the country about training and nutrition that he needs to need to "educate himself a bit further"
damn it that was priceless ;D
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Also, what TROPONIN is failing to see is that IN A CALORIC DEFECIT ALL PROTEIN,CARBOHYDRATES and FAT will be used.
IT WOULD MATTER NOT anyways since the goal of a Caloric Defecit is to pull from stored fat, stored potential kinetic energy.
I am trying to be simplistic so all understand.
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I don't know who Feinman is.
I don't follow low carb diets.
He is the one who authored the study that is getting butchered.
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Also, what TROPONIN is failing to see is that IN A CALORIC DEFECIT ALL PROTEIN,CARBOHYDRATES and FAT will be used.
IT WOULD MATTER NOT anyways since the goal of a Caloric Defecit is to pull from stored fat, stored potential kinetic energy.
I am trying to be simplistic so all understand.
Right, but what is to stop the body from using stored muscle?
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Adonis, why weren't you more muscular in the mr.getbig contest if your "method" works so well ?
you clearly lost a couple of pounds of muscle even if you are delusional about that fact
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Right, but what is to stop the body from using stored muscle?
As long as you are training heavy you won`t lose any, even then, it STILL would be difficult.
You would have to be bed-ridden or have a muscle wasting disease in order to lose a noticable amount.
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I have a question for Mr True Adonis...im 85 kg and i want to loose some fat, how much calories should i take in? i train 3/4 times a week with an hour of cardio afterwards.
Today i ate 6 small meals
meal 1 koffie and cigarettes
meal 2 zinger and red bull drink
meal 3 1 whole egg + 3 eggwhites
meal 4 sandwich with white cheese
meal 5 30 grams of Pure Whey
meal 6 2 sendwiches with a little salami and cheese
i think all of this is something like 1200 calories?
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Also, what TROPONIN is failing to see is that IN A CALORIC DEFECIT ALL PROTEIN,CARBOHYDRATES and FAT will be used.
IT WOULD MATTER NOT anyways since the goal of a Caloric Defecit is to pull from stored fat, stored potential kinetic energy.
I am trying to be simplistic so all understand.
Honestly, I don't care what type of diet people follow. If a diet works, it works. There are a million ways to get in shape.
It is very easy to over-simplify the incredible complex workings of human digestion.
If you refined your points, it would be perfectly relevant.
You say that the GOAL of a caloric deficit is to pull from stored fat. I doubt anyone would question that. But, you cannot guarantee the pulling of stored fat.
For example, burning fat for energy is physiologically impossible in the presence of large bursts of insulin.
So, if your hypocaloric diet contains nutrients that will potentiate the release of insulin in any large amount, fat utilization will be blunted, even if the total caloric intake over that given time is below your metabolic rate for that given time.
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Adonis, why weren't you more muscular in the mr.getbig contest if your "method" works so well ?
you clearly lost a couple of pounds of muscle even if you are delusional about that fact
I was the most Muscular I had ever been!
I used to follow conventional diets....You can see my logs on Musclemayhem....1.5- 2 grams of protein, Carb Cycles, no cheating.
I was smaller and weaker.
My method I was about 5 lbs heavier and leaner.
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I have a question for Mr True Adonis...im 85 kg and i want to loose some fat, how much calories should i take in? i train 3/4 times a week with an hour of cardio afterwards.
Today i ate 6 small meals
meal 1 koffie and cigarettes
meal 2 zinger and red bull drink
meal 3 1 whole egg + 3 eggwhites
meal 4 sandwich with white cheese
meal 5 30 grams of Pure Whey
meal 6 2 sendwiches with a little salami and cheese
i think all of this is something like 1200 calories?
You don`t have to go that low, with that said, I would need a constant to determine your total amount once I apply my formula.
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I was the most Muscular I had ever been!
I used to follow conventional diets....You can see my logs on Musclemayhem....1.5- 2 grams of protein, Carb Cycles, no cheating.
I was smaller and weaker.
My method I was about 5 lbs heavier and leaner.
of course your were 5lbs heavier, you gained muscle while bulking
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of course your were 5lbs heavier, you gained muscle while bulking
How do you know? hahahaha (Playing Devil`s Advocate)
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Adonis, do you believe that the body burns fat at the same rate when insulin levels are higher or even "spiked" compared to when blood sugar levels are low in a calorie deficit? Long sentence ;D. Insulin supposedly is a fat storing/anabolic hormone.
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You don`t have to go that low, with that said, I would need a constant to determine your total amount once I apply my formula.
what do you need to know?
in the past a ate everything, and ate a lot of sugars like chocolate before going to bed. so i have now a beer-belly and saggy tits. but now i want to get ripped as nails for the summer, i think i need to loose 20 pounds of fat.
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An example of over simplifying complex human digestion and energy utilization are the compounds acetyl-CoA carboxylase 1 and acetyl-CoA carboxylase 2. These two are involved in the production of malonyl-CoA. malonyl-CoA is important in the formation of fatty acids, and also fat burning.
Aceyl-CoA carboxylase 2 is very important in fat burning, it regulates how fatty acids are transfered to the Mitochondria (can go back to oxidative coupling from a previous post).
If you could block Acetyl-CoA Carboxylase 2, you could burn fat continuously in the mitochondria.
Insulin production by the body actually stimulates the production of both of those. The first one which has to do with fat storage (Absolutely necessary for growth and development), and the second blunts fatty asid transfer to teh mitochondria.
If a calorie is a calorie, and in a hypocaloric deficit, the body will burn off body fat no matter what macronutrients are ingested.....what about Acetyl-Coa carboxylas 2's actions from teh sugars you may have ingested in your hypocaloric meal?
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Adonis, do you believe that the body burns fat at the same rate when insulin levels are higher or even "spiked" compared to when blood sugar levels are low in a calorie deficit? Long sentence ;D. Insulin supposedly is a fat storing/anabolic hormone.
I believe that the question is irrelevant when in a Caloric defecit.
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How do you know? hahahaha (Playing Devil`s Advocate)
¸
how do you know you didn't gain any muscle ? ;) ;)
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and by the way this is not me, i found this pic at bodybuilding.com just for laughts ;D
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of course your were 5lbs heavier, you gained muscle while bulking
If Adam's methods truly worked he wouldn't have looked like complete shit in the offseason..You seen the pictures... :'(
He looked depleted even in the offseason.. :(
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I believe that the question is irrelevant when in a Caloric defecit.
I answered that question in my previous post. The answer is the usage of fatty acids for energy is most definitely lower (and essentially physiologically impossible) in the presence of insulin.
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Paul Dillet had mcdonalds bfast lunch and dinner. He was following the adonis principle. lol....
lol.... lol.....
lol..... lol......
Adonis Principle at work... lol
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And he got freakin fat, and lost all his muscle...
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I answered that question in my previous post. The answer is the usage of fatty acids for energy is most definitely lower (and essentially physiologically impossible) in the presence of insulin.
Hey trop Adam's principles don't account for insulin at all, only calories in versus out..
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If Adam's methods truly worked he wouldn't have looked like complete shit in the offseason..You seen the pictures... :'(
He looked depleted even in the offseason.. :(
lmao
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Hey trop Adam's principles don't account for insulin at all, only calories in versus out..
When you are ingesting a restricted caloric amount, there is little insulin response.
Furthermore in a defecit it does not matter at all.
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Hey trop Adam's principles don't account for insulin at all, only calories in versus out..
It doesn't matter if he accounts for insulin or not. Insulin is a hormone produced by the body in people with normal functioning, whether Adam wants to account for it or not.
When insulin is secreted by the pancreas, in response to carbohydrate ingestion, Aceyl-CoA carboxylase 2 is produced. Acetyl-CoA carboxylase 2 is the enzyme that regulates how much fatty acids are transfered to the mitochondria to be utlized for energy. When Acetyl-Coa carboxylase 2 is elevated, fatty acids are NOT sent to the mitochondria, and oxidation of fatty acids is ceased.
It is physiologically impossible to utilze fat for energy in the presence of insulin. It doesn't matter if Adonis counts for it.
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If Adam's methods truly worked he wouldn't have looked like complete shit in the offseason..You seen the pictures... :'(
He looked depleted even in the offseason.. :(
Fucking Protein powder, chicken breasts and rice.
I overate like a pig on purpose. My fault. What a waste.
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a quarter pounder or a big mac is good food, its meat bread and veggies. but here in europe mcdonalds is expensive.
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It doesn't matter if he accounts for insulin or not. Insulin is a hormone produced by the body in people with normal functioning, whether Adam wants to account for it or not.
When insulin is secreted by the pancreas, in response to carbohydrate ingestion, Aceyl-CoA carboxylase 2 is produced. Acetyl-CoA carboxylase 2 is the enzyme that regulates how much fatty acids are transfered to the mitochondria to be utlized for energy. When Acetyl-Coa carboxylase 2 is elevated, fatty acids are NOT sent to the mitochondria, and oxidation of fatty acids is ceased.
It is physiologically impossible to utilze fat for energy in the presence of insulin. It doesn't matter if Adonis counts for it.
Log on to www.MuscularDevelopment. com
Go to the Natural Section.
Please follow along with CASE STUDY 1. Also, read some of the other posts. I will answer all questions there.
That should help.
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When you are ingesting a restricted caloric amount, there is little insulin response.
Furthermore in a defecit it does not matter at all.
It doesn't matter how little the insulin response. The enzymatic actions remain the same. In a state of lowered insulin secretion, Acetyl Coa Carboxylase 2 will be lower, but that only means that the extent of the reducxtion if fatty acid transfer to teh mitochondria is lower. The fact remains that it is still lower, and fat loss is blunted.
So, a calorie is still not a calorie.
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Log on to www.MuscularDevelopment. com
Go to the Natural Section.
Please follow along with CASE STUDY 1. Also, read some of the other posts. I will answer all questions there.
That should help.
I'll stay here. You've given no truthful answer yet, so I feel no need to post a question.
You can stay here and tell my how you can control the enzymatic reactions to nutrient ingestion if you want though.
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It is physiologically impossible to utilze fat for energy in the presence of insulin. It doesn't matter if Adonis counts for it.
Isn't there some insulin in the body constantly? A basal level? So if you have a whey shake before cardio, which stimulates insulin release and which has been shown not to inhibit fat burning how is that possible... please explain what you mean by "in the presence of insulin", is it a certain level it has to reah or what?
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It doesn't matter how little the insulin response. The enzymatic actions remain the same. In a state of lowered insulin secretion, Acetyl Coa Carboxylase 2 will be lower, but that only means that the extent of the reducxtion if fatty acid transfer to teh mitochondria is lower. The fact remains that it is still lower, and fat loss is blunted.
So, a calorie is still not a calorie.
I disagree.
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I'll stay here. You've given no truthful answer yet, so I feel no need to post a question.
You can stay here and tell my how you can control the enzymatic reactions to nutrient ingestion if you want though.
I am proving all your theories WRONG by the Case Study at MD.
Please visit.
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I agree in a caloric deficit weight will be lost no matter what..... I have dieted both ways.... now I don't take it to the extremes of Adam and eat all my food from McDonalds but inb regards to fat lost in a caloric deficit fat will be lost no matter what its simple science.... how could the body not loose weight if calories in is less than calories out
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I disagree.
It's not up for debate. These are the physiological processes in the body as we currently know them.
You don't have to agree or disagree. You can disagree that there is oxygen in the atmosphere too, but the fact remains that there is oxygen, and we need it to survive.
Time to log off.
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It's not up for debate. These are the physiological processes in the body as we currently know them.
You don't have to agree or disagree. You can disagree that there is oxygen in the atmosphere too, but the fact remains that there is oxygen, and we need it to survive.
Time to log off.
You haven`t demonstrated anything.
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I will also add, how can I take your arguments seriously Troponin, when you are just butchering studies in which you admittedly had no clue where they came from.
I think you hear somethign in passing and your ears tend to perk up without doing further research.
This is fine, but do not state things as fact when they are hardly so.
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doesnt' the fact that Troop has done prep work for tons of guys on the national level kinda indicate that he might know what he's talking about? I dont' think you have to know every aspect of every study to speak on an intellegent level about something.
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doesnt' the fact that Troop has done prep work for tons of guys on the national level kinda indicate that he might know what he's talking about? I dont' think you have to know every aspect of every study to speak on an intellegent level about something.
I agree, but he is trying to use bits and pieces from studies in which he did not know the origin.
I will research his claims further.
But I will invite you also, to watch Chaseinator on MD.com
He is being an open book in this whole thing.
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I agree, but he is trying to use bits and pieces from studies in which he did not know the origin.
I will research his claims further.
But I will invite you also, to watch Chaseinator on MD.com
He is being an open book in this whole thing.
I know nothing about said individual.
I dont' pretend to be an expert on dieting, I know training, that's what I've spent the last 10 years of my life concentrating on from a BB point of view so I don't speak in these conversations
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I think Troponin does well though and is a good trainer/drug advisor and such.
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the right way to bulk:
dianabol,,testosterone,,nandrolone
calorie high in the sky with some dirty meals,,aromasin from the pharmacy if you want to eliminate bloat completely,,bloat is good for you though! proviron for hardness and anti estrogen
the right way to cut:
oxandrolone,,testosterone+trenbolone,,,,masteron,,winstrol-inject and halo for final touch in this order too. aromasin and proviron for dryness and extra hardness all through.
every 2 weeks you add in a product till you get to a point where you are on all of them at once for a whole month.
clean diet! 5 days low carbs 1 days high carbs. no cytomel needed,,no clenbuterol needed. you can use some cytomel 25mcg if you add in growth and insulin but in general no cytomel needed when diet is clean,,not even for the trenbolone.
follow this,,this is what you need to see progress worth talking about,,keep doses moderate for optimal results on a 220lb and do me a favor and use human grade for everything beside the tren and masteron
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Dear God, this is not rocket science. There are certainly fundamental principles that I base my training on and they have worked everytime for ALL people. Some of the stuff that you guys are arguing about are pointless. Yes there is more than one way to ripped but some ways are more efficient than others. The main thing that I see people screw up on is drying out. No one seems to understand this. Shredded dry and with as little muscle loss as possible is the key. Understand this and you have won no matter how you place.
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Dear God, this is not rocket science. There are certainly fundamental principles that I base my training on and they have worked everytime for ALL people. Some of the stuff that you guys are arguing about are pointless. Yes there is more than one way to ripped but some ways are more efficient than others. The main thing that I see people screw up on is drying out. No one seems to understand this. Shredded dry and with as little muscle loss as possible is the key. Understand this and you have won no matter how you place.
Exactly.
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Exactly.
Spot on, brother.
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Dear God, this is not rocket science. There are certainly fundamental principles that I base my training on and they have worked everytime for ALL people. Some of the stuff that you guys are arguing about are pointless. Yes there is more than one way to ripped but some ways are more efficient than others. The main thing that I see people screw up on is drying out. No one seems to understand this. Shredded dry and with as little muscle loss as possible is the key. Understand this and you have won no matter how you place.
So your saying that you can't get ripped and dry with Twinkies and Haagen Daz ;D??
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So your saying that you can't get ripped and dry with Twinkies and Haagen Daz ;D??
Intenseone how did you manage to get so fat with clean food?
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Intenseone how did you manage to get so fat with clean food?
Who says I'm fat? Too many carbs maybe, but not fat ;D!
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So your saying that you can't get ripped and dry with Twinkies and Haagen Daz ;D??
Weeeeeelll, I could prove that theory correct by posting my pic but I will save myself the embarrassment. :'(
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Dear God, this is not rocket science. There are certainly fundamental principles that I base my training on and they have worked everytime for ALL people. Some of the stuff that you guys are arguing about are pointless. Yes there is more than one way to ripped but some ways are more efficient than others. The main thing that I see people screw up on is drying out. No one seems to understand this. Shredded dry and with as little muscle loss as possible is the key. Understand this and you have won no matter how you place.
Agree wholeheartedly.
I have not butchered, or used chunks of any study. I only stated physiological facts regarding insulin and its effects on fatty acid oxidation.
The basic facts are saturated fat and processed sugar are not optimally conducive to promoting a physique with the most possible muscle mass, with the lowest possible fat mass.
None of my statements on the enzymatic actions in response to certain macronutrients are false, or in anyway debatable.
I've stated from the begining that I don't care at all what diet people follow. I don't even care if people don't feel my methods are effective. If you can achieve your personal goals with a particular diet, that is great.
But, from a physiological stand point, in regards to muscle mass, glycogen storage, water storage, and fat storage, a calorie is not a calorie.
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Who says I'm fat? Too many carbs maybe, but not fat ;D!
You did get fat.
You looked best when you were eating around 1800 calories and less.
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Agree wholeheartedly.
I have not butchered, or used chunks of any study. I only stated physiological facts regarding insulin and its effects on fatty acid oxidation.
The basic facts are saturated fat and processed sugar are not optimally conducive to promoting a physique with the most possible muscle mass, with the lowest possible fat mass.
None of my statements on the enzymatic actions in response to certain macronutrients are false, or in anyway debatable.
I've stated from the begining that I don't care at all what diet people follow. I don't even care if people don't feel my methods are effective. If you can achieve your personal goals with a particular diet, that is great.
But, from a physiological stand point, in regards to muscle mass, glycogen storage, water storage, and fat storage, a calorie is not a calorie.
I don`t agree.
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You did get fat.
You looked best when you were eating around 1800 calories and less.
Can't be ripped all the time, but I can swear on my Father that I have abs @ 230!
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Agree wholeheartedly.
I have not butchered, or used chunks of any study. I only stated physiological facts regarding insulin and its effects on fatty acid oxidation.
The basic facts are saturated fat and processed sugar are not optimally conducive to promoting a physique with the most possible muscle mass, with the lowest possible fat mass.
None of my statements on the enzymatic actions in response to certain macronutrients are false, or in anyway debatable.
I've stated from the begining that I don't care at all what diet people follow. I don't even care if people don't feel my methods are effective. If you can achieve your personal goals with a particular diet, that is great.
But, from a physiological stand point, in regards to muscle mass, glycogen storage, water storage, and fat storage, a calorie is not a calorie.
So, do you think Adonis is lying about the diet he used to get lean or is he maybe an extreme ectomorph that loses weight easily? Or whatever else you think? His case study at MD is a 6'2 250+lb guy eating 1780-1800cals a day of anything and is supposed to come in with zero muscle loss and lean.
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So, do you think Adonis is lying about the diet he used to get lean or is he maybe an extreme ectomorph that loses weight easily? Or whatever else you think? His case study at MD is a 6'2 250+lb guy eating 1780-1800cals a day of anything and is supposed to come in with zero muscle loss and lean.
We aren`t done yet.
You cannot make a judgement.
But he has lost 8-10 lbs so far. Of PURE FAT. GO to www.musculardevelopment. com Natural Section.
Case Study 1.
I will have more people joining him as well.
Everyone will be doing pictures on a weekly basis.
Stay tuned and learn something.
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ketogenic is the best and the easiest way for me..I usually use a CKD for cutting 5-6 days of zero carbs, followed by a 1000 gram carb day then a 600 gram of carb day...Then i start the whole cycle again... I only need like 6-10 weeks to cut up after a long winter bulk...I'm talking about cutting down to 7-8% bodyfat range....There's no need for me to go any further than that..
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So, do you think Adonis is lying about the diet he used to get lean or is he maybe an extreme ectomorph that loses weight easily? Or whatever else you think? His case study at MD is a 6'2 250+lb guy eating 1780-1800cals a day of anything and is supposed to come in with zero muscle loss and lean.
No such thing as an Ectomorph.
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We aren`t done yet.
You cannot make a judgement.
But he has lost 8-10 lbs so far. Of PURE FAT. GO to www.musculardevelopment. com Natural Section.
Case Study 1.
I will have more people joining him as well.
Everyone will be doing pictures on a weekly basis.
Stay tuned and learn something.
Adonis I will admit I saw the progress from about 4-5days on your diet for Chase and it definitely looks like he lost some fat. I'm just wondering if it is more of an intial bodily response to a low calorie diet and will taper off with time. I'll keep watching though...
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So, do you think Adonis is lying about the diet he used to get lean or is he maybe an extreme ectomorph that loses weight easily? Or whatever else you think? His case study at MD is a 6'2 250+lb guy eating 1780-1800cals a day of anything and is supposed to come in with zero muscle loss and lean.
The key point that has been neglected here is the terms "weight" and "fat." Weight loss will obviously occur in a hypo-caloric diet. That cannot be denied.
Fat loss is controlled by other, and more complex processes than just calories in v. calories out.
The thing with posts like this, is they end up becoming entirely self serving. I doubt anyone has actually read my posts on how insulin actually blunts fat loss......and to be honest, I probably wouldn't have read them either. So, things like this become a debate on nothing.
After a well designed post defining exactly how a calorie is not a calorie, all Adonis has to say is "I disagree," even when the point is not debatable.
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Can't be ripped all the time, but I can swear on my Father that I have abs @ 230!
I hope your not just talking about the top two abs mr intenseone..Cause some dudes can show those with upwards of 25% which is pretty fucking fat..
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No such thing as an Ectomorph.
What about those skinny guys that eat way more than everyone else don't exercise and don't gain a pound muscle or fat? There is no such thing as a naturally faster than usual metabolism?
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Agree wholeheartedly.
I have not butchered, or used chunks of any study. I only stated physiological facts regarding insulin and its effects on fatty acid oxidation.
The basic facts are saturated fat and processed sugar are not optimally conducive to promoting a physique with the most possible muscle mass, with the lowest possible fat mass.
None of my statements on the enzymatic actions in response to certain macronutrients are false, or in anyway debatable.
I've stated from the begining that I don't care at all what diet people follow. I don't even care if people don't feel my methods are effective. If you can achieve your personal goals with a particular diet, that is great.
But, from a physiological stand point, in regards to muscle mass, glycogen storage, water storage, and fat storage, a calorie is not a calorie.
I have alway said that a calorie is not a calorie and I have seen this time and time again in the real world when putting not just a BBer on a diet but the general public. I would love to have a round table discussion at the Arnold with everyone there. I'm up for it if anyone is going.
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I have alway said that a calorie is not a calorie and I have seen this time and time again in the real world when putting not just a BBer on a diet but the general public. I would love to have a round table discussion at the Arnold with everyone there. I'm up for it if anyone is going.
who's bringing the table?
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I'm trying to figure out how the diet could work. Is it because it is low glycemic (i.e. burgers because of fat supress insulin in the buns, and sugar-free ice cream?) on a low calorie diet?
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who's bringing the table?
Smartass. >:( ;D
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who's bringing the table?
Nice timing ;D
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I have a feeling that this is what it would end up looking like. :(
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I have a feeling that this is what it would end up being. :(
LMFAO
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Perhaps I should have been more clear. Of course Protein, Carbohydrates and Fats each have a different function.
But as far as energy values go, of course a Calorie is a Calorie and will always be so no matter what.
In a caloric defecit, all calories ingested are burned. If not, then you are not in a caloric defecit.
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The key point that has been neglected here is the terms "weight" and "fat." Weight loss will obviously occur in a hypo-caloric diet. That cannot be denied.
Fat loss is controlled by other, and more complex processes than just calories in v. calories out.
The thing with posts like this, is they end up becoming entirely self serving. I doubt anyone has actually read my posts on how insulin actually blunts fat loss......and to be honest, I probably wouldn't have read them either. So, things like this become a debate on nothing.
After a well designed post defining exactly how a calorie is not a calorie, all Adonis has to say is "I disagree," even when the point is not debatable.
Your posts were spot on and there is a reason they were not debated...they are undeniable facts as we currently understand the body. The only reply he can give is "I don't agree".
The problem even with Adonis' case study or any study involving the weight loss of an individual is that it's a one time deal and you don't get a do-over. What I mean is let's say TA's subject comes in ripped eventually...which I believe he actually will if he continues. How would we know what he would have looked like had he followed a more conventional diet? We can't know; only theorize. Similarly if someone uses a conventional diet there's no telling what they would have looked like eating in a caloric deficit of only donuts.
So how do you prove the most efficient method of fat loss/muscle sparing? You can't use two different people since their metabolisms will differ. You possibly could use the same person using a TA diet during one period and a convential diet on another but even then how do you keep a control on other factors such as activity level or a change in their own metabolism? You can't in the practical world.
Therefore, I believe the only thing that TA's case study may prove is you can get lean eating a non traditional diet. What it will fail to prove because it's nearly impossible to prove is if it is better than a traditional diet and that he retained as much or more muscle than if he dieted traditionally.
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Your posts were spot on and there is a reason they were not debated...they are undeniable facts as we currently understand the body. The only reply he can give is "I don't agree".
The problem even with Adonis' case study or any study involving the weight loss of an individual is that it's a one time deal and you don't get a do-over. What I mean is let's say TA's subject comes in ripped eventually...which I believe he actually will if he continues. How would we know what he would have looked like had he followed a more conventional diet? We can't know; only theorize. Similarly if someone uses a conventional diet there's no telling what they would have looked like eating in a caloric deficit of only donuts.
So how do you prove the most efficient method of fat loss/muscle sparing? You can't use two different people since their metabolisms will differ. You possibly could use the same person using a TA diet during one period and a convential diet on another but even then how do you keep a control on other factors such as activity level or a change in their own metabolism? You can't in the practical world.
Therefore, I believe the only thing that TA's case study may prove is you can get lean eating a non traditional diet. What it will fail to prove because it's nearly impossible to prove is if it is better than a traditional diet and that he retained as much or more muscle than if he dieted traditionally.
Thanks.
I think everyone could agree that WEIGHT loss is inevitable when less calories are taken in than are being burned. That should be obvious. But, that should be the extent at which that tool is marketed.
Optimizing body fat loss, while simultaneously minimizing muscle mass loss requires more planning than that.
What is important is basic understanding of human physiology and nutrition. The better you understand the processes that are going on when nutrients are utilized by the body, the better you can potentially be at maximizing fat loss, while minimizing muscle loss.
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I doubt anyone has actually read my posts on how insulin actually blunts fat loss......and to be honest, I probably wouldn't have read them either. So, things like this become a debate on nothing.
I read your posts and asked a follow up question re: what you mean by "presence of insulin". Please look back at my post.
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Your posts were spot on and there is a reason they were not debated...they are undeniable facts as we currently understand the body. The only reply he can give is "I don't agree".
The problem even with Adonis' case study or any study involving the weight loss of an individual is that it's a one time deal and you don't get a do-over. What I mean is let's say TA's subject comes in ripped eventually...which I believe he actually will if he continues. How would we know what he would have looked like had he followed a more conventional diet? We can't know; only theorize. Similarly if someone uses a conventional diet there's no telling what they would have looked like eating in a caloric deficit of only donuts.
So how do you prove the most efficient method of fat loss/muscle sparing? You can't use two different people since their metabolisms will differ. You possibly could use the same person using a TA diet during one period and a convential diet on another but even then how do you keep a control on other factors such as activity level or a change in their own metabolism? You can't in the practical world.
Therefore, I believe the only thing that TA's case study may prove is you can get lean eating a non traditional diet. What it will fail to prove because it's nearly impossible to prove is if it is better than a traditional diet and that he retained as much or more muscle than if he dieted traditionally.
I`ve done both.
You can see my log on www.musclemayhem.com
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Thanks.
I think everyone could agree that WEIGHT loss is inevitable when less calories are taken in than are being burned. That should be obvious. But, that should be the extent at which that tool is marketed.
Optimizing body fat loss, while simultaneously minimizing muscle mass loss requires more planning than that.
What is important is basic understanding of human physiology and nutrition. The better you understand the processes that are going on when nutrients are utilized by the body, the better you can potentially be at maximizing fat loss, while minimizing muscle loss.
Don`t be stubborn.
Go look at my posts at MD in the Natural section.
There is way more to this than you even know.
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Isn't there some insulin in the body constantly? A basal level? So if you have a whey shake before cardio, which stimulates insulin release and which has been shown not to inhibit fat burning how is that possible... please explain what you mean by "in the presence of insulin", is it a certain level it has to reah or what?
Yes, whey protein will raise insulin.
The "presence of insulin" isn't omnipotent and all encompassing, when insulin is present, it will exert its actions on Acetyl CoA. The more insulin, the larger the scale of its actions.
So, there isn't a specific level, but the lower the level of insulin, the less ACC2 will be stimulated, and the lower the blunting of fatty acid oxidation in the mitochondria will be.
it's like 4am traffic, compared to rush hour. At 4am, there is still some cars, but if the cops aren't looking, you have a pretty good shot of seeing what your new car "can do."
At rush hour, you're stuck going 20mph....switching lanes....after which the lane you were in begins moving, etc., etc.
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holly shit my head hurts
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I hope your not just talking about the top two abs mr intenseone..Cause some dudes can show those with upwards of 25% which is pretty fucking fat..
No, all my abs. If I compete, I'll either be at the low end of the heavy wt class (205 or so) or right at the top of the Lt hvy (198 1/4)!
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Yes, whey protein will raise insulin.
The "presence of insulin" isn't omnipotent and all encompassing, when insulin is present, it will exert its actions on Acetyl CoA. The more insulin, the larger the scale of its actions.
So, there isn't a specific level, but the lower the level of insulin, the less ACC2 will be stimulated, and the lower the blunting of fatty acid oxidation in the mitochondria will be.
it's like 4am traffic, compared to rush hour. At 4am, there is still some cars, but if the cops aren't looking, you have a pretty good shot of seeing what your new car "can do."
At rush hour, you're stuck going 20mph....switching lanes....after which the lane you were in begins moving, etc., etc.
Ok, thanks. Still confused though about the "impossible in the presence of insulin" LOL. Maybe you are talking on a cell by cell basis? I'll try to figure it out LOL
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Ok, thanks. Still confused though about the "impossible in the presence of insulin" LOL. Maybe you are talking on a cell by cell basis? I'll try to figure it out LOL
I`m still trying to figure it out.
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I`m still trying to figure it out.
Hmm... maybe he is talking about lipolysis when he says "fat burning"? I know lipolysis is inhibited by insulin but doesn't the body use a certain percentage of fatty acids for energy at all times regardless of insulin conc.? As I understand it fat is constantly released and reabsorbed into cells, and even if lipolysis is inhibited, burning off the circulating fats would ultimately make you lose fat (I mean especially in a hypocaloric state)? I have seen some state that lipolysis is not THAT important of a fat loss pathway. LOL, ahh, it doesn't matter ultimately anyway.
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:-\ :-\ :-\
??? ??? ???
huh
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The thing with posts like this, is they end up becoming entirely self serving. I doubt anyone has actually read my posts on how insulin actually blunts fat loss......and to be honest, I probably wouldn't have read them either. So, things like this become a debate on nothing.
After a well designed post defining exactly how a calorie is not a calorie, all Adonis has to say is "I disagree," even when the point is not debatable.
Actually I have and couldnt agree more with every single thing youve said on this thread so far already. Where you are 100% wrong though is that your arguing with someone whose whole schtick is to say outrageous crazy things and go against the grain with everything (all with the hopes of publicizing/promoting himself).
The problem is your basically stating a fact such as "the human body needs H20 to survive" and his reply is "I disagree"
Maybe thats the new internet....if you say "you really dont need the heart as an organ" enough times over and over....some people will believe it.
You have better things to do Trop........this is truly a waste of your time.
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Actually I have and couldnt agree more with every single thing youve said on this thread so far already. Where you are 100% wrong though is that your arguing with someone whose whole schtick is to say outrageous crazy things and go against the grain with everything (all with the hopes of publicizing/promoting himself).
The problem is your basically stating a fact such as "the human body needs H20 to survive" and his reply is "I disagree"
Maybe thats the new internet....if you say "you really dont need the heart as an organ" enough times over and over....some people will believe it.
You have better things to do Trop........this is truly a waste of your time.
I agree it is a waste of time to distort Science and cite snippets of unproven theoretical nonsense that you would need a decoder ring from Kellogg`s in order to decipher the point and question. Troponin should know better than that.
It has been a waste of time for all of us.
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A joule is a joule.
Does that make it easier.
hahahaha
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'Adonos', some of us arn't members of MD, so post 'Chaseinaters' new pics.
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wow adonis, do you come up with your "scientific" theories while in your jammies and your mommy cuts the crust off your pbj sandwich?
I dont listen to any theories from anybody who lives with mom and dad. Go get a life and a degree and come tell us something then.
You aint the revolution fool. Theres nothing new under the sun. Go work on your "gravity suit". Fool
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wow adonis, do you come up with your "scientific" theories while in your jammies and your mommy cuts the crust off your pbj sandwich?
I dont listen to any theories from anybody who lives with mom and dad. Go get a life and a degree and come tell us something then.
You aint the revolution fool. Theres nothing new under the sun. Go work on your "gravity suit". Fool
well put.I second that.
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No such thing as an Ectomorph.
c'mon now. what proof could you posssibly have to back that statement up? It's been accepted for years, there are different bone structure's different muscle compositions...
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c'mon now. what proof could you posssibly have to back that statement up? It's been accepted for years, there are different bone structure's different muscle compositions...
I'm a true ectomorph, so I believe there is such a thing as that bodytype. That's not to say one can't change their appearance to seem like another type.
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I'm a true ectomorph, so I believe there is such a thing as that bodytype. That's not to say one can't change their appearance to seem like another type.
If I remember right there are bone structure issues, a ecto tends to have a rather long thorax and lighter bone structure. I dont' know how much you could do naturally to put on alot of muscle. Like I said earlier I'm not a dieting expert but previous experience with ecto's leads me to believe that most guys who are ecto's think they are eating alot but in reality are under eating and very frustrated that they can't put on weight. I used to work with a guy that was a classic ecto. One day he comes into work with 2 huge jugs of creatine and tells me he's gonna use them to start putting on weight. I said well, you kinda have to have muscle 1st or your wasting your time but he didn't listen. At lunch that day look over and he's eating a whopping ham and cheese sandwich and having a glass of milk and that's all he ate all day buthe was gonna do at least 3 glasses of creatine that day ::)
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I'll stay here. You've given no truthful answer yet, so I feel no need to post a question.
You can stay here and tell my how you can control the enzymatic reactions to nutrient ingestion if you want though.
bump
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Ok, thanks. Still confused though about the "impossible in the presence of insulin" LOL. Maybe you are talking on a cell by cell basis? I'll try to figure it out LOL
Where insulin is present, it will exert its effects on ACC2, which will blunt the transfer of fatty acids to the mitochondria, resulting in fatty acids not used for energy. The larger amount of insulin that is present, the larger amount of mitochondria will be effected.
You have more than one mitochondria in your body....and you have more than one insulin receptor. The scale of the fatty acid blunting will be proportional to the scale of insulin present. The more amount of insulin, the more amount of ACC2. The less insulin, the less ACC2.
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c'mon now. what proof could you posssibly have to back that statement up? It's been accepted for years, there are different bone structure's different muscle compositions...
as dogcrapp pointed out adonis just goes against the grain for the sakes of making a scene
men and women who have spent more years in school studying this topic than he has been alive. And his response to their information is "I Disagree"
he has no formal education on these matters yet he quotes scientific works from google.
Trop has explained why a calorie is not a calorie and what was adonis's response.."I disgaree"
this guy is piece of work.
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LOL
I was just thinking the other day, this is a thread where I can learn something, ON GETBIG !
Was to be expected it would end up in a useless debate which most of us have no interest nor use in whatsoever ;D
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Adonis, just to clear up the record.
1. What, when and where is your formal training in these matters? school and degree
fine, no degree..we well then
2. How many years of practical application have you had on these matters on other people?
0 + 0 = 0
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LOL
I was just thinking the other day, this is a thread where I can learn something, ON GETBIG !
Was to be expected it would end up in a useless debate which most of us have no interest nor use in whatsoever ;D
fucker..eat 5 small/moderate meals per day (minimize carbs intake), lift heavy and mix in cardio (but don't over do it)
now get lost.
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Actually I have and couldnt agree more with every single thing youve said on this thread so far already. Where you are 100% wrong though is that your arguing with someone whose whole schtick is to say outrageous crazy things and go against the grain with everything (all with the hopes of publicizing/promoting himself).
The problem is your basically stating a fact such as "the human body needs H20 to survive" and his reply is "I disagree"
Maybe thats the new internet....if you say "you really dont need the heart as an organ" enough times over and over....some people will believe it.
You have better things to do Trop........this is truly a waste of your time.
Completely off topic but I'm bored with my routine and I'm gonna DC it for a while, dead of winter seems like a good time. Anybody got any links to DC's stuff. i lost mine.
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Completely off topic but I'm bored with my routine and I'm gonna DC it for a while, dead of winter seems like a good time. Anybody got any links to DC's stuff. i lost mine.
www.intensemuscle.com
go to the "dogg pound"
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Completely off topic but I'm bored with my routine and I'm gonna DC it for a while, dead of winter seems like a good time. Anybody got any links to DC's stuff. i lost mine.
http://timwescott.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Talk&action=display&thread=1101334382&page=1
read everything In-Human says, he doesn't post anymore but he knew his shit, try out Intensemuscle.com also.
there's also a thread on the training board......
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Thanks guys
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Can we please not loose sight of the fact that there are great benefits to interval based cardio twice or three times a week?
You don't need to do cardio to get cut, no, but if you want to improve your general health and cardiovascular system you are very much advised to do so.
A slow walk on the treadmill will do almost jack shit (and this seems to be the modus operandi of the general US public when it comes to workouts), caloric restriction is numero uno in that case, however a good cardio regime (like the one I discussed above) is a great asset in getting and staying healthy.
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fucker..eat 5 small/moderate meals per day (minimize carbs intake), lift heavy and mix in cardio (but don't over do it)
now get lost.
;D
Perhaps you're better off on dr phil's forum
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;D
Perhaps you're better off on dr phil's forum
only if I get to be next to oprah...I would hit it
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as dogcrapp pointed out adonis just goes against the grain for the sakes of making a scene
men and women who have spent more years in school studying this topic than he has been alive. And his response to their information is "I Disagree"
he has no formal education on these matters yet he quotes scientific works from google.
Trop has explained why a calorie is not a calorie and what was adonis's response.."I disgaree"
this guy is piece of work.
TA must have been feeling generous. Most of the time when someone has got him dead to rights, he just ignores it/doesn't respond.
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Can we please not loose sight of the fact that there are great benefits to interval based cardio twice or three times a week?
You don't need to do cardio to get cut, no, but if you want to improve your general health and cardiovascular system you are very much advised to do so.
Exactly
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then why is being over weight so prevalent in the black community?
as with most races black have their fair share of fat asses.
One thing I've noticed is that inner city blacks eat allot of Mac Donald's. Even little baby's with a shake instead of a bottle says allot about the eating habits they will pick up in life. Even as adults, they use way too much saturated fats in just about everything that's good. So, not to make it a black and white thing, but inner city blacks do have a harder time eating clean than the average suburban white, where even going to a Subway is a wiser choice. But MD's are everywhere.
Super Size Me was on MSNBC Sunday Watching Morgan eat Mac Donald's for a month, while his weight went up and his health went down made me think about eating their and that was for only 30 days. Their were a few people over watching it and even the ones who ate at MD's even once or twice a week showed and not for the better.
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So, if your hypocaloric diet contains nutrients that will potentiate the release of insulin in any large amount, fat utilization will be blunted, even if the total caloric intake over that given time is below your metabolic rate for that given time.
BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally a truly knowledgeable guy to put to death Adonis' ridiculous bullshit claims about 'his' diet..... ::)
Trop, thank you very much for your contribution to this board. We need more like you on a daily basis, instead of the usual pieces of shit like Adonis and his gimmicks buddies. Keep on delievering, man !
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As Trop has said there really is no argument here. TA says that as long as your calories are below maintenance that you will lose weight regardless of insulin response and this is true. Trop says that fatloss will be blunted in the presence of insulin even when cals are below maintenance. Key word "BLUNTED" thus proving that a calorie is not a calorie. So, both of them are correct in their arguement.
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Maybe thats the new internet....if you say "you really dont need the heart as an organ" enough times over and over....some people will believe it.
OK, you don't really need your heart as an organ. http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/361/15101_heart.html ;D
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As Trop has said there really is no argument here. TA says that as long as your calories are below maintenance that you will lose weight regardless of insulin response and this is true. Trop says that fatloss will be blunted in the presence of insulin even when cals are below maintenance. Key word "BLUNTED" thus proving that a calorie is not a calorie. So, both of them are correct in their arguement.
He is incorrect in that he cannot ascertain what "Blunted" means.
Until he does that, his argument is as useless as combing the desert with a pitchfork.
A calorie WILL ALWAYS be a Calorie. 1.0000000000000000000000 0000003 Calories will always equal 1.0000000000000000000000 0000003.
Where Troponin is confused and I have already agreed is that A protein is not a carb. A Protein is not a fat. A Carb is not a Protein. A Carb is not a fat. A fat is not a Protein. A fat is not a carb.
A calorie will always be a calorie though.
This simple bit of logic has evaded Troponin and just about every single person trying to argue.
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As Trop has said there really is no argument here. TA says that as long as your calories are below maintenance that you will lose weight regardless of insulin response and this is true. Trop says that fatloss will be blunted in the presence of insulin even when cals are below maintenance. Key word "BLUNTED" thus proving that a calorie is not a calorie. So, both of them are correct in their arguement.
Furthermore I have been looking at Troponin`s diets or those that have been claiming to use his methods, and if you do the math and use the GI/GL index, his diets elicit way more insulin response than my methods.
Pretty interesting. But he should not be concerned as GI/GL index anyway.
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Furthermore I have been looking at Troponin`s diets or those that have been claiming to use his methods, and if you do the math and use the GI/GL index, his diets elicit way more insulin response than my methods.
Pretty interesting. But he should not be concerned as GI/GL index anyway.
hahaha, exactly, he probably believes that potatoes have a lower GI index rating than potato chips, brutal delusions.
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One thing I've noticed is that inner city blacks eat allot of Mac Donald's. Even little baby's with a shake instead of a bottle says allot about the eating habits they will pick up in life. Even as adults, they use way too much saturated fats in just about everything that's good. So, not to make it a black and white thing, but inner city blacks do have a harder time eating clean than the average suburban white, where even going to a Subway is a wiser choice. But MD's are everywhere.
Super Size Me was on MSNBC Sunday Watching Morgan eat Mac Donald's for a month, while his weight went up and his health went down made me think about eating their and that was for only 30 days. Their were a few people over watching it and even the ones who ate at MD's even once or twice a week showed and not for the better.
It is more of a genetic thing with blacks. They have better genetics to survive a famine as their African enviroment weeded out individuals incapable via natural selection.
Their women are fat storage machines.
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He is incorrect in that he cannot ascertain what "Blunted" means.
Until he does that, his argument is as useless as combing the desert with a pitchfork.
A calorie WILL ALWAYS be a Calorie. 1.0000000000000000000000 0000003 Calories will always equal 1.0000000000000000000000 0000003.
Where Troponin is confused and I have already agreed is that A protein is not a carb. A Protein is not a fat. A Carb is not a Protein. A Carb is not a fat. A fat is not a Protein. A fat is not a carb.
A calorie will always be a calorie though.
This simple bit of logic has evaded Troponin and just about every single person trying to argue.
Just because he did not define blunted does not mean that he is incorrect, but I suppose he will read this and do so.
Stating that a cal is a cal is a general term I know. So I will define it better and say the the bodies metabolism responds differently to each of the 3 macronutrients.
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Just because he did not define blunted does not mean that he is incorrect, but I suppose he will read this and do so.
Stating that a cal is a cal is a general term I know. So I will define it better and say the the bodies metabolism responds differently to each of the 3 macronutrients.
I think I made that clear early on as well.
He is incorrect in that he cannot define "blunted" accurately.
And as I said, I looked at some individuals purportedly under his tutelage and have found that his methods elicit a HIGHER insulin response than my methods do.
I would like for him to provide a sample diet, and I will do the same.
I will easily show him the remarkable difference.
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One thing I've noticed is that inner city blacks eat allot of Mac Donald's. Even little baby's with a shake instead of a bottle says allot about the eating habits they will pick up in life. Even as adults, they use way too much saturated fats in just about everything that's good. So, not to make it a black and white thing, but inner city blacks do have a harder time eating clean than the average suburban white, where even going to a Subway is a wiser choice. But MD's are everywhere.
Super Size Me was on MSNBC Sunday Watching Morgan eat Mac Donald's for a month, while his weight went up and his health went down made me think about eating their and that was for only 30 days. Their were a few people over watching it and even the ones who ate at MD's even once or twice a week showed and not for the better.
lol, I had a tripple quarter pounder with cheese today....tripple meat for $4.00
A literally felt my heart beat skip with each bite..The mr.getbig was pushed back..that was celebration meal after dieting for 6 weeks :P
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lol, I had a tripple quarter pounder with cheese today....tripple meat for $4.00
A literally felt my heart beat skip with each bite..The mr.getbig was pushed back..that was celebration meal after dieting for 6 weeks :P
You could eat that everyday and be prefectly healthy with ZERO gain in bodyfat.
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You could eat that everyday and be prefectly healthy with ZERO gain in bodyfat.
the last time someone listened to a snake looked what happened!!!!
(http://www.fictionwise.com/knight/rubens.adam&eve22.jpg)
(http://www.fictionwise.com/knight/titian.eve.crop22.jpg)
(http://www.dshed.net/content/p00000006/s00000087/c00000822/c00000822_d.jpg)
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I agree it is a waste of time to distort Science and cite snippets of unproven theoretical nonsense that you would need a decoder ring from Kellogg`s in order to decipher the point and question. Troponin should know better than that.
It has been a waste of time for all of us.
hahahaaha your super ignorant my friend.
attn anyone who is in school drop out adonis has found some articles on the internet ahahhaahahahahahahah
everything trop said is true, you are good at promoting yourself although i dont think you'll ever make anything out. people can see how your doing it and it annoys people.
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DISGUSTED do you agree with what adonis is saying,honestly.
youve already stated the opposite of his theory already(1.5 grams protein per pound).
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DISGUSTED do you agree with what adonis is saying,honestly.
youve already stated the opposite of his theory already(1.5 grams protein per pound).
I came back in a later post and said 1.25. The problem is that I have been doing this so long that I almost never calculate things out, I almost always do it in my head. So when I checked with one of my diets it came out to be around 1.25.
As far as TA it depends on what you are talking about. If you can tell me specifically what it is you are refereing to I will answer. To be honest I have never seen a sample diet of his and I asked him in an earlier post what his theories are but I never got a response.
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DISGUSTED
here are a few if you wouldnt mind commenting
1)mcdonalds is a healthy food, very nutritious and one can eat it all the time and still be healthy.
2)cookies, chocolate,cake etc are all that is needed to diet, since a calorie is a calorie you dont have to eat veggies, steak etc the cake and steak will be processed the same way.
3)its near impossible to lose muscle as long as you lift weights, regardless of diet.
4)all calories are processed the same way by the body
5)high protein diest are a myth and not needed to maintain muscle.
thanks disgusted.
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DISGUSTED
here are a few if you wouldnt mind commenting
1)mcdonalds is a healthy food, very nutritious and one can eat it all the time and still be healthy.
2)cookies, chocolate,cake etc are all that is needed to diet, since a calorie is a calorie you dont have to eat veggies, steak etc the cake and steak will be processed the same way.
3)its near impossible to lose muscle as long as you lift weights, regardless of diet.
4)all calories are processed the same way by the body
5)high protein diest are a myth and not needed to maintain muscle.
thanks disgusted.
You are taking some of my points out of context by the way.
Same thing you religious freaks do with Einstein.
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DISGUSTED
here are a few if you wouldnt mind commenting
1)mcdonalds is a healthy food, very nutritious and one can eat it all the time and still be healthy.
2)cookies, chocolate,cake etc are all that is needed to diet, since a calorie is a calorie you dont have to eat veggies, steak etc the cake and steak will be processed the same way.
3)its near impossible to lose muscle as long as you lift weights, regardless of diet.
4)all calories are processed the same way by the body
5)high protein diest are a myth and not needed to maintain muscle.
thanks disgusted.
But I do agree on all of those.
With the exception of number 4 as I have already stated. A calorie is a calorie though.
A calorie WILL ALWAYS be a Calorie. 1.0000000000000000000000 0000003 Calories will always equal 1.0000000000000000000000 0000003.
Where Troponin is confused and I have already agreed is that A protein is not a carb. A Protein is not a fat. A Carb is not a Protein. A Carb is not a fat. A fat is not a Protein. A fat is not a carb.
A calorie will always be a calorie though.
This simple bit of logic has evaded Troponin and just about every single person trying to argue.
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I came back in a later post and said 1.25. The problem is that I have been doing this so long that I almost never calculate things out, I almost always do it in my head. So when I checked with one of my diets it came out to be around 1.25.
As far as TA it depends on what you are talking about. If you can tell me specifically what it is you are refereing to I will answer. To be honest I have never seen a sample diet of his and I asked him in an earlier post what his theories are but I never got a response.
I will post that information.
A lot can be found on the MD natural section.
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DISGUSTED
here are a few if you wouldnt mind commenting
1)mcdonalds is a healthy food, very nutritious and one can eat it all the time and still be healthy.
Not true. There are way too many chemicals and impurities and God knows what to call it healthy as in producing a state of longevity. I am not against eating animal fats!
2)cookies, chocolate,cake etc are all that is needed to diet, since a calorie is a calorie you dont have to eat veggies, steak etc the cake and steak will be processed the same way.
Many people have gotten riped on just a caloric reduction type diet while still eating junk food, Mike Mentzer, Cory Everson, Dr CF Smith, but all were on steroids and they did eat protein and the protein use will be maximized due to the steroid usage. Look very carefully at this question. There are three things that you are commenting on that would require a very long careful explaination. I'm just skimming the surface here due to time for now.
3)its near impossible to lose muscle as long as you lift weights, regardless of diet.
Well, define "near". Stop eating all together and still lift then see what happens. ;D
4)all calories are processed the same way by the body
TA is wording this very carefully. As I said earlier, macronutrients effect the bodies metabolism differently, but saying a cal is a cal is too general to comment on.
5)high protein diest are a myth and not needed to maintain muscle.
Again, define high protein. Also, you have natural BB and those that use steroids. I'll put it this way, stop eating protein and you will die, stop eating fat and you will die, stop eating carbs and you won't die.
thanks disgusted.
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I will post that information.
A lot can be found on the MD natural section.
I read you entire thread on MD I must have missed it. Looking forward to you posting. THanks
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I read you entire thread on MD I must have missed it. Looking forward to you posting. THanks
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3384
Here is another
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http://www.musculardevelopment.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3384
Here is another
That's the one I read, but I did not see a sample diet. Post it quick cause I have a hankerin for ice cream. ;D
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DISGUSTED
here are a few if you wouldnt mind commenting
1)mcdonalds is a healthy food, very nutritious and one can eat it all the time and still be healthy.
Not true. There are way too many chemicals and impurities and God knows what to call it healthy as in producing a state of longevity. I am not against eating animal fats!
2)cookies, chocolate,cake etc are all that is needed to diet, since a calorie is a calorie you dont have to eat veggies, steak etc the cake and steak will be processed the same way.
Many people have gotten riped on just a caloric reduction type diet while still eating junk food, Mike Mentzer, Cory Everson, Dr CF Smith, but all were on steroids and they did eat protein and the protein use will be maximized due to the steroid usage. Look very carefully at this question. There are three things that you are commenting on that would require a very long careful explaination. I'm just skimming the surface here due to time for now.
3)its near impossible to lose muscle as long as you lift weights, regardless of diet.
Well, define "near". Stop eating all together and still lift then see what happens. ;D
4)all calories are processed the same way by the body
TA is wording this very carefully. As I said earlier, macronutrients effect the bodies metabolism differently, but saying a cal is a cal is too general to comment on.
5)high protein diest are a myth and not needed to maintain muscle.
Again, define high protein. Also, you have natural BB and those that use steroids. I'll put it this way, stop eating protein and you will die, stop eating fat and you will die, stop eating carbs and you won't die.
thanks disgusted.
1) Please Explain the chemicals and which ones you are talking about. What "chemicals" lie in a Big Mac? Which are negative? Please show me a study or evidence for this to be true. I don`t think you have any.
2)I am not on steroids, never have taken any neither has anyone I am working with. They will eat whatever they want and become ripped and mantain all muscle.
3)Biopsy and laser imaging are the only way to determine a loss of muscle. No other way.
4) I have already adressed that so we can erase that one.
5) The requirement for Protein is Extremely low even in athletes and bodybuilders.
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Many people have gotten riped on just a caloric reduction type diet while still eating junk food, Mike Mentzer, Cory Everson, Dr CF Smith, but all were on steroids and they did eat protein and the protein use will be maximized due to the steroid usage. Look very carefully at this question. There are three things that you are commenting on that would require a very long careful explaination. I'm just skimming the surface here due to time for now.
that's funny because you always hear guys saying that guys on drugs need MORE protein.
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That's the one I read, but I did not see a sample diet. Post it quick cause I have a hankerin for ice cream. ;D
Here is another:
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3406
Here is one of Chase`s days.
Keep in mind that each day is going to be totally different than the next.
Wednesday January 24th, 2007
Two hash browns: 280
1 medium apple: 90
two pieces of wheat bread with one slice of cheddar cheese: 290
same as above: 290
3 meatballs (there small) from trader joes: 180
1 cup measured dry pasta: 420
1/2 cup vodka sauce: 90
1 cup steamed broccoli: 80
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Thursday 25th of january
Food:
1 cup of oatmeal, cinnimon, blueberries, heavy cream, maple surup = 410
Two slices of wheat bread and one slice of cheese = 290
1/2 cup of coffee = 10
Double cheese burger (mcdonalds) = 460
Maui Short Beef boneless ribs and butternut squash = 610
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Also keep in mind, this is just to get a constant so I can determine my Formula.
The FORMULA will be TOTALLY DIFFERENT!
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August 16, 2006
The anti Supersize Me movie from the horse's mouth
Since there were so many comments and questions about the anti Supersize Me movie that MD and were interviewed for and that I posted about last week, I asked the filmmaker, Tom Naughton, if he would write up a brief of what he is trying to do with the movie. He agreed. Here is his overview of his film and his own weight loss efforts.
Well, it's interesting to see how emotional people can become when you mention the word "McDonald's." For my next film I may tackle something less controversial, such as the Iraq war or school prayer.
Several posters asked what direction this film will take. Like "Super Size Me," my film will be a humorous documentary. Spurlock's film was definitely amusing and well-constructed. Unfortunately, I believe he gave the audience a lot of misleading information along with the laughs. I plan to give my audience good information along with the laughs. I believe some of the laughs will be Super-Sized.
This film will NOT portray McDonald's food as health food. It isn't. (I also ate at other fast-food restaurants during my month-long diet, but mostly McDonald's.) But because of changes in the American lifestyle, people are going to eat at fast-food restaurants, like it or not. So part of my goal in this movie is to show how a person can eat fast food without getting fat and suffering other health consequences.
I haven't made final decisions on exactly which scenes to include, but I can certainly describe the highlights, in no particular order:
1. My diet history. I tried vegetarianism, Fit for Life, Pritikin -- all colossal failures. But I've had success with The Zone, Protein Power, Atkins -- all low-carb diets to some degree.
2. My fast-food diet plan: based on my diet history, I aimed for about 2000 calories and reasonably low carbs (about 100 per day, as it turns out ... not really low, but hardly high.)
3. Spurlock Nonsense. If he followed his own self-proclaimed "rules," he could not have consumed 5,000 calories per day; I've done the math. He won't release his food log, despite numerous requests from journalists, and I'm convinced it's because that log would reveal him as a fraud. If you've seen the movie, you'll recall that between weeks three and four, he actually lost a pound, then managed to gain tremendously in the final week. His food log would likely show that he stuffed himself mercilessly to ensure that his final weight gain would be impressive. He wanted the audience to believe that there's something especially fattening about fast food, as opposed to any other sugary/starchy food. As someone who once got fat on Grape Nuts and whole-grain pasta, I disagree.4. How fat are we, anyway? There is, as Dr. Eric Oliver from the University of Chicago explains, no real obesity "epidemic." Since 1970, Americans have become an average of 9 pounds heavier -- we've also become an average of 9 years older. During this same timespan, the CDC lowered the definition of "overweight," and bingo, 50 million Americans became overweight or obese overnight. Do we have a problem? Definitely ... just look at the increase in Type II diabetes. But it's not an epidemic. You can't catch obesity or diabetes from the guy next to you. Government agencies exaggerate (and flat-out lie at times) because it helps them get bigger funding.
5. It's not being fat that kills you, it's the behaviors that make you fat. Many "fat" people are quite healthy. As Dr. Eades can tell you, thin people become diabetic and die of heart attacks, too. Before my fast-food diet, my doctor said my cholesterol profile was very good, my triglycerides (70) were excellent, he complimented my strength and muscle tone, and was pleased to hear that I walk at least 15 miles per week in the hills near my home -- but at a BMI of 31, I'm "obese" and automatically deemed unhealthy.
6. More Spurlock Nonsense. I was particularly annoyed by Spurlock's obvious belief that people consume fast food because they're addicted, ignorant, or both. For someone who declared himself addicted, he somehow managed to quit the stuff cold-turkey and go back to his girlfriend's wacky vegan diet without much effort. After eating at McDonald's every day for a month, I didn't set foot in the place for three weeks. If this is an addiction, it's sure easy to break.
The idea that people consume fast food because they're ignorant is nothing more than class snobbery wearing a mask of concern. Contrary to what many people think, poor people are not ignorant about the nutritional quality of fast food. (Professor Oliver looked into that very topic, among others.) There is, however, much more social pressure to be thin among the upper classes; poor people are more likely to have an attitude of "I'm fat, and I don't care." And if you happen to value immediate pleasure more than long-term health, that's your choice.
I've conducted street interviews with dozens of people about fast food, and guess what? Every single one of them knows McDonald's is selling fattening food. (And most of them eat it anyway.) Many of them could guess the calorie count of a Quarter Pounder, large fries and large Coke within 200 calories. Those who couldn't usually guessed high, not low.
7. The saturated fat / cholesterol / heart disease myth. This is the subject that led me to Dr. Eades. If ignorance is a driving force behind our health problems, it's ignorance that's been promoted by the USDA and other federal agencies that harp on us to cut the fat and eat more grains. Thanks to them, women will buy a Weight Watchers "Smart Ones" dinner -- only one gram of fat!! -- and think it's a good choice, despite the 40 or 50 carbohydrates. Before I knew better, I used to get pancakes for breakfast at McDonald's and skip the butter -- only two grams of fat in pancakes!! The USDA would've approved.
8. The Lowfat Religion. Brought to you largely by the McGovern committee, which cheerfully ignored the testimony it didn't like and swallowed the advice of the low-fat advocates. McGovern was on the Pritikin diet at the time -- but couldn't stay on it. (Being a true politician, he nonetheless told the rest of us to do what he says, not what he does.) Dr. Eades, Dr. Mary Dan Eades, and others will explain how the low-fat, high-carb diet is ineffective at best and dangerous at worst.
9. The Food Police. Once the Lowfat Religion took hold, the evangelists soon followed: groups like the Center for Science in the Public Interest -- almost always identified in news stories as a "consumer advocacy group." A more accurate description would be "a vegetarian activist group posing as scientists." Their self-righteousness would be annoying even if their advice had merit, but it doesn't: They have played a large role in pushing natural animal fats out of the diet. They declared trans fats to be safe and harassed McDonald's and other fast-food restaurants into switching to trans fats from beef tallow and palm oil. (Now, of course, they're suing restaurants for using trans fats.)
10. Exercise. One of the reasons I was impressed with Dr. Eades' books is that he doesn't offer any pie-in-the-sky (or sausage-in-the-sky) promises that you can eat like a maniac, sit on your butt all day, and still lose weight; in fact, he states specifically that to lose weight, you must create a deficit between calories burned and calories consumed. That deficit is largely missing from American society today. We have engineered effort out of our lives. At my local mall, I see people drive around for 15 minutes until they can score a parking spot near the door. In addition to misinformed food choices, that's why we're getting fatter.
11. My results. When my doctor saw that I had consumed an average of 120 grams of fat per day (49 saturated), he told me I'd been on a "widow-maker" diet. He said, "Well, let's see what kind of damage you've done here." Then he measured the results: I lost 12 pounds. My body-fat percentage dropped four points. Triglyerides stood at 83. Blood pressure stayed the same. Cholesterol, a slight dip from 230 to 220, although my HDL had gone down to 48 from 60 -- but even the doctor admitted that could be because I had given up my evening glass of red wine during the diet. When he reviewed all the results, he said, "I don't think I like what you're proving here."12. My next diet. Because the saturated fat / cholesterol issue is so controversial, I spent another month on a no-starch, no-sugar diet that was essentially a saturated-fat pigout: lots of double-cheeseburgers without buns, polish sausages, bacon, eggs, butter, cheese, cream, marbled steaks, coconut oil, etc. The results? My total cholesterol dropped to 209, my HDL went back up to 64, LDL dropped to 130, and my triglycerides dropped to 75. I also lost a couple of pounds, despite the high calorie content, and my body fat dropped another point.
Those are the highlights. I realize my descriptions don't sound funny, but trust me; in addition to my background in journalism, I've been a standup comic for over a decade, and there will be plenty of laughs in this film.
I know some of you reading this will be disappointed that I'm not out to beat up on McDonald's, but in my view, their popularity is a result of our food choices, not the cause of them. Like Dr. Eades (and we didn't discuss this previously), I don't believe individual freedom and corporate responsibility are in opposition. McDonald's doesn't have any more of a "corporate responsibility" to sell me health food than Ben & Jerry's does. If McDonald's wants to spend their own money on ads that encourage me to eat starch and sugar, that doesn't bother me -- I can say no (and usually do). But when groups like CSPI want to use the tax code to force me to pay more for cheeseburgers so they can use the money to tell me to eat more whole grains, that definitely bothers me.
Ultimately, I'm responsible for making choices about my own health and my children's health. I hope this film will give a few people the tools to make better choices of their own.
Tom Naughton
www.TomNaughton.com
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hey genius, Im a professional with a masters and a doctorate, do your research then get back to me:
"Calorie restriction or Caloric restriction (CR) is the practice of limiting dietary energy intake in the hope that it will improve health and retard aging. In human subjects, CR has been shown to lower cholesterol, fasting glucose, and blood pressure. Some consider these to be biomarkers of aging, since there is a correlation between these markers and risk of diseases associated with aging. Except for houseflies (below), animal species tested with CR so far, including primates, rats, mice, spiders, C. elegans and rotifers, have shown lifespan extension. CR is the only known dietary measure capable of extending maximum lifespan, as opposed to average lifespan."
"While some tests of calorie restriction have shown increased muscle tissue in the calorie-restricted test subjects, how this has occurred is unknown. Muscle tissue grows when stimulated, so it is possible that the calorie-restricted test animals exercised more than their companions on higher calories"
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction
""Sedentary rats who ate a standard diet had the shortest average life-spans," Holloszy says. "Those who exercised by running on a wheel lived longer, but animals on calorie restriction lived even longer."
"Previous research on mice and rats has shown that both calorie restriction and endurance exercise protect them against many chronic diseases including obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and some types of cancer. However, the research has shown that only CR increases the animals' maximum lifespan by up to 50 percent. These animal studies suggest that leanness is a key factor in the prevention of age-associated disease, but reducing caloric intake is needed to slow down aging."
It works for people to:
"Fontana says lower levels of T3, cholesterol and the inflammatory molecules TNF and C-reactive protein, combined with evidence of "younger" hearts in people on calorie restriction, suggest that humans on CR have the same adaptive responses as did animals whose rates of aging were slowed by CR.......For the new study, researchers examined 28 members of the Calorie Restriction Society who had been eating a CR diet for an average of six years. Although the CR group consumed fewer calories -- averaging only about 1,800 per day -- they consumed at least 100 percent of the recommended daily amounts of protein and micronutrients. A second group of 28 study subjects was sedentary, and they ate a standard Western diet. A third group in the study ate a standard Western diet -- approximately 2,700 calories per day -- but also did endurance training. The researchers found reduced T3 levels -- similar to those seen in animals whose rate of aging is reduced by CR -- only in the people on CR diets."
source: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:wWNitszv0_cJ:www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060531164818.htm+calorie+reduction+exercise&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4
Eat Less to build muscle and live longer:
"Calorie restriction or Caloric restriction (CR) is the practice of limiting dietary energy intake in the hope that it will improve health and retard aging. In human subjects, CR has been shown to lower cholesterol, fasting glucose, and blood pressure. Some consider these to be biomarkers of aging, since there is a correlation between these markers and risk of diseases associated with aging. Except for houseflies (below), animal species tested with CR so far, including primates, rats, mice, spiders, C. elegans and rotifers, have shown lifespan extension. CR is the only known dietary measure capable of extending maximum lifespan, as opposed to average lifespan."
"While some tests of calorie restriction have shown increased muscle tissue in the calorie-restricted test subjects, how this has occurred is unknown. Muscle tissue grows when stimulated, so it is possible that the calorie-restricted test animals exercised more than their companions on higher calories"
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction
""Sedentary rats who ate a standard diet had the shortest average life-spans," Holloszy says. "Those who exercised by running on a wheel lived longer, but animals on calorie restriction lived even longer."
"Previous research on mice and rats has shown that both calorie restriction and endurance exercise protect them against many chronic diseases including obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and some types of cancer. However, the research has shown that only CR increases the animals' maximum lifespan by up to 50 percent. These animal studies suggest that leanness is a key factor in the prevention of age-associated disease, but reducing caloric intake is needed to slow down aging."
It works for people to:
"Fontana says lower levels of T3, cholesterol and the inflammatory molecules TNF and C-reactive protein, combined with evidence of "younger" hearts in people on calorie restriction, suggest that humans on CR have the same adaptive responses as did animals whose rates of aging were slowed by CR.......For the new study, researchers examined 28 members of the Calorie Restriction Society who had been eating a CR diet for an average of six years. Although the CR group consumed fewer calories -- averaging only about 1,800 per day -- they consumed at least 100 percent of the recommended daily amounts of protein and micronutrients. A second group of 28 study subjects was sedentary, and they ate a standard Western diet. A third group in the study ate a standard Western diet -- approximately 2,700 calories per day -- but also did endurance training. The researchers found reduced T3 levels -- similar to those seen in animals whose rate of aging is reduced by CR -- only in the people on CR diets."
source: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:wWNitszv0_cJ:www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060531164818.htm+calorie+reduction+exercise&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4
The amount an INSULIN spike is Directly proportion to the AMOUNT of the Carbohydrate in question.
When in Low calories, a few cookies can equate to a cup of oats based on Glycemic Load.
The lower the calories go, the less and less it becomes a factor.
Throw in a defecit with an intense workout(demand for Carb and fat usage) the concern becomes even more non-existant.
Furthmore you require LOW amounts of protein to build muscle and sustain it.
The only thing that WILL cause you to atrophy is lack of training.
This can be seen when Astronauts,who eat well in space prefectly balanced, lose muscle tissue not due to lack of nutrition, but due to no gravity and lack of use.
Does it occur to anyone that todays trainer/diet gurus are demonizing carbohydrates the same way they did to fat back in the 80's? Hell, I still have a diet article written in Flex back in 84 or 85 (I'll have to dig it out) by Dan Duchaine in which he enthusiastically recomends cutting fat calories to almost 5% while simultaneously amping carb consumption to around 70% or so. This is the same guru who later on wrote "Bodyopus" which extolled the virtues of the ketogenic diet! This low carb noise by the likes of Poliquin strikes me as more of the same old "there is only one true diet"... kind of like religion, no?
Lyle McDonald wrote a fine piece that sums up the diet scene:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/Articles/comparing1.html
Bums on the street and kids in college are most likely not drinking light beer. And if a guy is averaging 5-6 beers a day it would only take about 2 average meals to put them over their daily intake level. Forget the snacks that most people eat everyday.
I agree with TA that a calorie is a calorie and that you only need to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight. It should be obvious by how many different diet programs that exist. All have different principles, but all have one thing in common - calorie deficit. The trick is to find a diet plan that doesn't leave you hungry or that doesn't allow you to eat some of the foods you enjoy - a tricky task.
If TA can lose weight while still eating the foods he enjoys and not feel hungry then he has a better chance for long term success than about 99% of the dieters out there that fail.
good luck TA.
PS low carbs definately works. I lose weight quickly while on low carbs at a rate of nearly 5 pounds per week without getting hungry. I eat mostly lean protein sources and vegetables while on a low carb diet. But the problem with this diet is that it doesn't allow me to drink beer and eat pizza and lasagna and other foods I enjoy. Hell, I couldn't go to one of my kids football games yesterday and eat not one thing from their snack shacks while only eating lean mean and vegetables. The world isn't set up to accomodate those who want to eat healthy regardless of what the food franchises preach.
http://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/22-ThePhysicsDiet.htm:
The Physics Diet
Want to lose weight? Easy! Just remember the first law of thermodynamics: conservation of energy.
by Richard A. Muller
Technology for Presidents
November 14, 2003
Here's an old joke. The dairy industry hires a physicist to improve milk production. After several weeks, he's ready to lecture about his progress. He draws a circle on the blackboard and says, 'Consider a spherical cow.'
I've told this joke many times, but nobody ever laughs -- except other physicists. For the rest of you, I should explain that it is self-deprecating humor. It makes fun of our penchant for oversimplification.
This month I want to talk about diet and exercise for weight loss, and I'm going to oversimplify on purpose. Consider a spherical physicist.
Most dieters are so concerned about second-order effects, such as daily fluctuations in weight and changes in metabolism, that they lose track of the first law of thermodynamics: conservation of energy.
Want to lose a pound of fat? You can work it off by hiking to the top of a 2,500-story building. Or by running 60 miles. Or by spending 7 hours cleaning animal stalls. (It is amazing what scientists have actually measured. This last example is tabulated in the book Exercise Physiology by G. Brooks and T. Fahey.)
Exercise is a very difficult way to lose weight. Here's a rule of thumb: exercise very hard for one hour (swimming, running, or racquetball)– and you'll lose about one ounce of fat. Light exercise for an hour (gardening, baseball, or golf) will lose you a third of an ounce. That number is small because fat is a very energy-dense substance: it packs about 4,000 food calories per pound, the same as gasoline, and 15 times as much as in TNT.
If you run for an hour, you'll lose that ounce of fat and also a pound or two of water. By the next day, when you've replenished the water, you might think, 'the weight came right back!' But you'd be wrong -- you really did lose an ounce. It is hard to notice, unless you keep running every day for a month or more, and don't reward yourself after each run with a cookie.
There is a much easier way to lose weight, as we can learn from the first law of thermodynamics. Eat less.
A reasonable daily diet for an adult is 2,000 food calories. That's 8.36 megajoules per day, or about 100 joules per second -- in other words, 100 watts. Most of that ends up as heat, so you warm a room as much as a bright light bulb. Cut your consumption by 600 calories per day and you'll lose a pound of fat every week. Most diet experts consider that a reasonable goal. Don't drop below 1,000 calories per day, or you might get lethargic. But at 1,400 calories per day, you can easily maintain an active life.
Of course, there is a catch. You'll be hungry.
It's not real hunger–not like the painful hunger of starving people in impoverished countries. It's more of a mild ache, or an itch that you mustn't scratch. To be popular, a diet must somehow cope with this hunger. Weight Watchers does it with peer support. The food pyramid does it by encouraging you to eat unlimited celery. Some high-fat diets satisfy all your old cravings -- and figure you'll eventually cut back the butter you put on your bacon.
Last April, I had once again grown out of my belt. I wasn't grossly overweight: 205 pounds in a six-foot, one-inch body. That wouldn't be bad for a football player, but I'm 59 years old, and the excess pounds weren't in muscle. I had gained a pound a year for several decades. I felt heavy and old. I decided to try conservation of energy. I gave up lunch and snacks.
How to cope with the hunger? I attempted to enjoy it. I thought of the movie Lawrence of Arabia, in which T.E. Lawrence says, 'The trick is not minding that it hurts.' I told myself that the mild ache was only the sensation of evaporating fat. That interpretation has some basis in physics. When you lose weight, most of your fat is converted to the gases carbon dioxide and water vapor, and so you get rid of fat by breathing it out of your body.
Physics works, and I lost weight. By August, I was down to 175 pounds, a 30-pound drop. My belt went from 42 inches to 36 inches. My Zen-like approach to hunger also worked; I found myself declining offers of chocolate cake because I didn't want to lose the sensation of evaporation. I didn't change my level of activity, and managed to maintain my diet while taking trips to Cuba and Alaska -- and during a week-long backpacking excursion in the Sierra Nevada. A key innovation: I kept up the social aspects of lunch, without eating. I watched others gobbling cheeseburgers, while I sipped diet cola. It really wasn't that hard to do. And the mild afternoon discomfort was compensated by several positive developments. Dinner became truly wonderful. I hadn't had pre-dinner hunger for decades. A sharp appetite turns a meal into a feast. No more cheese 'appetizers' for me.
Moreover -- and this may sound silly coming from a physicist -- I was surprised that I began to feel lighter. I no longer walk down streets -- I float. Distant stores seem closer. And my knees have responded to the lighter load. Their aching, which I had mistakenly attributed to aging, went away.
Food is instant gratification. And fast-food chains and gourmet restaurants serve tasty food at remarkably low cost. It is a situation unprecedented in history and unanticipated by our genes. No wonder we are overweight.
Anybody can lose weight. Energy is conserved. Just stop scratching that itch. Of course, you'll have to sacrifice instant gratification. Is it worth it? You decide. Food is delicious and cheap. You might reasonably choose to take advantage of this unique historical circumstance, and decide to be fat.
It's been seven months since I started my diet, and two months since I left it. I've begun eating a light lunch, and having an occasional small snack. I'm still at 175. But I never want to lose the delicious edge of hunger before dinner, or the floating sensation when I walk. Moving takes less energy now, so I have more energy. I no longer feel like a spherical physicist. And for losing weight, dieting sure beats cleaning animal stalls.
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Thursday 25th of january
Food:
1 cup of oatmeal, cinnimon, blueberries, heavy cream, maple surup = 410
Two slices of wheat bread and one slice of cheese = 290
1/2 cup of coffee = 10
Double cheese burger (mcdonalds) = 460
Maui Short Beef boneless ribs and butternut squash = 610
How are you determining the exact caloric amounts of these foods or are is this just an approximation?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4166689,00.html
http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm
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How are you determining the exact caloric amounts of these foods or are is this just an approximation?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4166689,00.html
http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm
There are no adverse effects noted.
Also,
Your protein powders are WAY WAY WAY worse if you want to use your rationale.
What about your steroids? Clearly you would have to agree that eating McDonalds is way Safer than injecting Steroids that you don`t even know what is truly in them.
McDonalds is a great, healthy food. Anything can be used as long as you do not overeat.
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How are you determining the exact caloric amounts of these foods or are is this just an approximation?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4166689,00.html
http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm
You also might want to get your information from another source other than Jeff Rense.
Criticism
By virtue of his non-conventional views, Jeff Rense has often courted controversy. Rense has been accused of racism, anti-Semitism[5] and Holocaust denial, though he claims he is actually pro-Jewish yet anti-Zionist. He believes that Zionists are "in control of the world" through their dominance of central banking and global finance. Rense claims that the ultimate goal of the Zionist illuminati is to bring in a "New World Order" - a system of government in which all nation states are dissolved and replaced by an undemocratic, global government. Some of his guests have criticized the Jewish religion, and have allegedly repeated false quotes from the Jewish Talmud. He has also given airtime to Holocaust deniers such as Ernst Zündel and Mark Weber, and backs theories that the Holocaust has been greatly exaggerated and used in various ways by "Jewish supremacists" for political power and that "Jewish financiers and bankers were ultimately responsible for hostility towards Jews."
His website once contained reprints from the conspiratorial Spotlight magazine, known anti-Semitic forgeries such as the A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century, and Holocaust denial material reprinted from the Institute for Historical Review, which the journal History Teacher called "shockingly racist and anti-Semitic". [6]
He justifies this by claiming he is defending free speech and does not necessarily support all of what his guests have to say, and states that he is anti-Zionist rather than anti-Semitic. Jeff Rense has interviewed many non-whites and Jews on his show including conspiracy theorist Barry Chamish and also advertised the Neturei Karta affiliate Jews Against Zionism. Rense and several of his guests and columnists claim to have been victims of death threats and intimidation from critics that he considers "Zionists." [7][8][9]
Additionally, there is much contention between Rense and researchers Victor Thorn and Lisa Guiliani of the World Independent News Group, mainly because of his refusal to take some of his guests (particularly Alex Jones and Greg Szymanski) to task for their sensationalism and monopolization (specifically by refusing to mention other, non-affiliated groups and individuals such as WING, they cite, amongst other proofs, censorship and his refusal to report on various rallies, some of which were rather large, numbering in 250,000 participants in front of the White House lawn, which would show how widespread, and thus credible, the movement and its basic position is).[10] Also in the case of Zionism, they complain that Rense delivers scant information on the subject, and buries it under tabloid-style material concerning the paranormal. They claim that he does not make any clear stance on this or related issues, such as the holocaust.
Notes
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There are no adverse effects noted.
Also,
Your protein powders are WAY WAY WAY worse if you want to use your rationale.
I am not a big fan of protein powders either for that reason.
What about your steroids? Clearly you would have to agree that eating McDonalds is way Safer than injecting Steroids that you don`t even know what is truly in them.
Not sure what you mean by "what is in steroids". The hormones in fat food meat (and all I'm sure) are causing children to reach puberty at a much earlier age. Many of the same steroids that BB take.
McDonalds is a great, healthy food. Anything can be used as long as you do not overeat.
Anything that has a artificial chemicals is not "healthy" imo. The problem is that NO ONE knows the long term effect that these chemicals have so I am not willing to be the long term guinea pig.
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Your favorite McDonald's sandwiches are made with USDA-inspected 100% beef, high quality chicken and fish and real eggs.
All of our burgers are made with USDA-inspected 100% beef to ensure high quality and great taste.
As one of the nation's leading purchasers of agricultural products, McDonald's consistently advocates and enforces the strongest possible food safety standards and regulations. In fact, we maintain a select list of only the top beef suppliers in the country and continually conduct independent third-party audits to ensure safety and quality.
We purchase premium chicken from leading suppliers like Tyson. So from our Premium Chicken Sandwiches to our Chicken McNuggets, you can trust McDonald's to always provide great tasting, high quality chicken. Following McDonald's strict food safety procedures, all of our chicken is carefully inspected to ensure top quality and freshness.
We use real eggs to make your favorite breakfast sandwiches like Egg McMuffin and McGriddles Sandwiches.
Did you know? McDonald's was the first Quick Service Restaurant to invent a quality portable breakfast sandwich for people on the go.
The sandwich: Egg McMuffin. The year: 1973.
Our Filet-O-Fish sandwich is made from white fish from the cold, deep waters of the Pacific Ocean and Bering, Baltic and North Seas. We take pride in the fact that the quality standards we use when preparing fish far surpass federal requirements.
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You also might want to get your information from another source other than Jeff Rense.
Criticism
By virtue of his non-conventional views, Jeff Rense has often courted controversy. Rense has been accused of racism, anti-Semitism[5] and Holocaust denial, though he claims he is actually pro-Jewish yet anti-Zionist. He believes that Zionists are "in control of the world" through their dominance of central banking and global finance. Rense claims that the ultimate goal of the Zionist illuminati is to bring in a "New World Order" - a system of government in which all nation states are dissolved and replaced by an undemocratic, global government. Some of his guests have criticized the Jewish religion, and have allegedly repeated false quotes from the Jewish Talmud. He has also given airtime to Holocaust deniers such as Ernst Zündel and Mark Weber, and backs theories that the Holocaust has been greatly exaggerated and used in various ways by "Jewish supremacists" for political power and that "Jewish financiers and bankers were ultimately responsible for hostility towards Jews."
His website once contained reprints from the conspiratorial Spotlight magazine, known anti-Semitic forgeries such as the A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century, and Holocaust denial material reprinted from the Institute for Historical Review, which the journal History Teacher called "shockingly racist and anti-Semitic". [6]
He justifies this by claiming he is defending free speech and does not necessarily support all of what his guests have to say, and states that he is anti-Zionist rather than anti-Semitic. Jeff Rense has interviewed many non-whites and Jews on his show including conspiracy theorist Barry Chamish and also advertised the Neturei Karta affiliate Jews Against Zionism. Rense and several of his guests and columnists claim to have been victims of death threats and intimidation from critics that he considers "Zionists." [7][8][9]
Additionally, there is much contention between Rense and researchers Victor Thorn and Lisa Guiliani of the World Independent News Group, mainly because of his refusal to take some of his guests (particularly Alex Jones and Greg Szymanski) to task for their sensationalism and monopolization (specifically by refusing to mention other, non-affiliated groups and individuals such as WING, they cite, amongst other proofs, censorship and his refusal to report on various rallies, some of which were rather large, numbering in 250,000 participants in front of the White House lawn, which would show how widespread, and thus credible, the movement and its basic position is).[10] Also in the case of Zionism, they complain that Rense delivers scant information on the subject, and buries it under tabloid-style material concerning the paranormal. They claim that he does not make any clear stance on this or related issues, such as the holocaust.
Notes
I knew you would say this. Just because it came from there does not mean a thing.
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McDonald's dairy products are made from real milk and cream and provide important nutrients needed every day for good health, including protein, vitamin A, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and potassium.
We offer two milk varieties (plain or chocolate) from suppliers such as Dean Foods. Our 1% Low Fat milk is pasteurized, homogenized and immediately packaged fresh and cold. McDonald's milk is an excellent source of calcium and vitamin D and a good source of vitamin A.
We use a special blend of pasteurized American cheese from suppliers like Kraft, a popular brand in many family households. Every time you bite into one of McDonald's cheeseburgers or an Egg McMuffin sandwich, you taste pure, melted quality.
Our Vanilla Low Fat Yogurt comes from renowned suppliers such as Dannon and General Mills. Dannon has been making yogurt for more than 60 years, and uses only Grade A low fat milk, plus live and active yogurt cultures that are carefully cultivated.
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McDonald's uses fresh fruit and vegetables in a variety of our menu options. Whether it is a Premium Salad, Fruit 'n Yogurt Parfait, or just the fresh lettuce and tomatoes used on sandwiches.
We select only the best Granny Smith, Gala, Jonagold, Empire apples and more from some of the same apple orchards that supply your local grocery stores and fruit stands. Sweet and crisp, you'll notice the quality every time you taste our Fruit & Walnut salad or bite into the warm baked apple pie.
We use only USDA 1 red seedless grapes and candied Diamond walnuts in every Fruit & Walnut salad.
All of our berries are carefully selected from many of the top farms across North America. In fact we even work with local growers to ensure that they're grown in perfect field conditions. Premium quality and flavor is ensured at every step, from the fields to your Fruit 'n Yogurt Parfait.
Our entrée salads provide three of your daily servings of vegetables. And since they're made with only the freshest mixed greens, they're an excellent source of vitamins A and C. Green Leaf lettuce is used on sandwiches and burgers because of its sweet flavor and crisp texture.
From the farm to the table, our entire method of harvest and transportation is designed to keep the lettuce crisp with no freezing at any stage. So you always get a quality Premium Salad prepared fresh daily.
Want to know the secret to our world famous French Fries and Hash Browns? It's the potatoes. We use only select potatoes available from the best potato farmers across the country, and we pick them all at the perfect time of year. After they're cut, they're immediately frozen to retain that unmatched flavor and texture you've come to expect.
The tomatoes we use in our Premium Salads and sandwiches are grown in farms across North America. The tomatoes are then sorted, selected for color and flavor, and delivered fresh to the restaurant
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Your favorite McDonald's sandwiches are made with USDA-inspected 100% beef, high quality chicken and fish and real eggs.
All of our burgers are made with USDA-inspected 100% beef to ensure high quality and great taste.
As one of the nation's leading purchasers of agricultural products, McDonald's consistently advocates and enforces the strongest possible food safety standards and regulations. In fact, we maintain a select list of only the top beef suppliers in the country and continually conduct independent third-party audits to ensure safety and quality.
We purchase premium chicken from leading suppliers like Tyson. So from our Premium Chicken Sandwiches to our Chicken McNuggets, you can trust McDonald's to always provide great tasting, high quality chicken. Following McDonald's strict food safety procedures, all of our chicken is carefully inspected to ensure top quality and freshness.
We use real eggs to make your favorite breakfast sandwiches like Egg McMuffin and McGriddles Sandwiches.
Did you know? McDonald's was the first Quick Service Restaurant to invent a quality portable breakfast sandwich for people on the go.
The sandwich: Egg McMuffin. The year: 1973.
Our Filet-O-Fish sandwich is made from white fish from the cold, deep waters of the Pacific Ocean and Bering, Baltic and North Seas. We take pride in the fact that the quality standards we use when preparing fish far surpass federal requirements.
Means nothing! I am not against real food, only artificial "food" laiden with chemicals and hormones both of which are in McDonalds foods!
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artificial chemicals and hormones both of which are in McDonalds foods!
steroids aren't artificial chemicals and hormones?
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steroids aren't artificial chemicals and hormones?
Steroids are artificial chemical hormones.
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http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/mcdshake.asp
You are WRONG about the drinks.
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you gotta love how hormones being put down right and left yet every single year i become richer and richer,,
steroids is bodybuilding and bodybuilding is steroids,,,some may call it m1t some may call it igf,,some may call it clenbuterol albuterol and some will just call it humalog and get it anywhere and everywhere to support their natural physiqe ;) you fail to see the common thing to majority of bodybuilders which is THE HORMONE INTAKE,,do you really think we will sit in the gym thinking 24/7 about how to improve our physiqe and do it with only food?? wether its macdonalds or clean diet hormones are always there,,ALWAYS
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::) ::) ::)
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http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/mcdshake.asp
You are WRONG about the drinks.
Me? I never specified anything about their drinks.
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9. I have food allergies. How do I know which McDonald's products I can eat?
McDonald's has assumed a leadership role in ensuring, where possible, the development of new food products that do not include the use of unnecessary allergens.
McDonald's provides a complete ingredient and nutrition breakdown called McDonald's Food Facts, which is available in every McDonald's restaurant across Canada and online under Our Food. By referencing Food Facts prior to a purchase, consumers with allergies can easily identify any ingredients that they may be sensitive to.
In addition, with McDonald's system, your meal can be prepared to your individual specifications on every visit. It can be, but we should not guarantee that any certain product has been made allergen free - i.e., Big Mac - no onions. Because of the proximity of onions to lettuce, we can only make a best effort to remove onions. Our restaurants should not be promising/guaranteeing that the product is "onion" free.
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Frequently Asked Questions About McDonald's USA Food & Nutrition
Q: Can McDonald's food be part of a healthy, balanced diet?
A: Yes. Many nutrition professionals agree that McDonald's food can be part of a healthy eating style based on the sound nutrition principles of balance, variety and moderation. One key to a healthy diet is to moderate, not eliminate, favorite foods because eliminating foods is rarely successful long term. In fact, the American Dietetic Association says all foods can fit into a healthy diet and what's most important is eating a balanced diet over time, rather than focusing on any one food or meal.
McDonald's varied menu and range of serving sizes make it easy to fit our food into a balanced diet and to create a range of meal combinations that fall within recommended guidelines for calories, fat and other nutrients.
For instance, in addition to hamburgers, fries, and soft drinks, we offer grilled chicken sandwiches, an array of salads, Fruit 'n Yogurt Parfaits, Apple Dippers with Low Fat Caramel Dip, juice, 1% low fat milk, and, at many restaurants, soups. With our Made For You cooking system, customers can special order various menu items to help meet their nutritional needs.
See some popular McDonald's meals and their corresponding levels of total fat, saturated fat, cholesterol and sodium.
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Frequently Asked Questions About McDonald's USA Food & Nutrition
Q: How does the quality of McDonald's food compare to the food I serve at home?
A: Many of the products we serve at McDonald's are the same trusted brands you might purchase at the local grocery store and serve in your own home. We take pride in the foods we serve you and your family. That's why we seek out fresh produce such as lettuce, tomatoes, apples and grapes, quality buns and potatoes, pure ground beef, select poultry and fish and wholesome dairy products.
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Q: How does McDonald’s obtain nutrition information such as calories, fat, sodium and fiber for its menu items?
A: Our popular menu items are analyzed by a recognized independent laboratory using the latest methods accepted by the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the US Food and Drug Administration. In fact, McDonald’s menu items are analyzed in the same lab USDA uses to analyze foods. The USDA is including McDonald’s nutrition information in their public food database and in their national consumer nutrition surveys.
Analyzing the actual food items in a lab is the most accurate way to determine the nutritional content of foods. In some cases, we also use nutrition data from major suppliers such as The Coca-Cola® Company, Masterfoods USA, a Division of Mars, Incorporated and Newman’s Own, Inc., or rely on a recognized database.
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One thing I gotta say...
Most true natural bodybuilders (most of whom never compete but just train and follow the sport) almost always do a few things wrong when it comes to their eating...
1. They grossly OVERESTIMATE their lean body mass. ie. how much muscle they actually have.
2. They grossly UNDERESTIMATE their bodyfat levels.
The result is they eat way too much food/supplements whether it be from chicken breasts or mcdonalds it doesn't matter.
Most of them would look better doing shorter, harder (not necessarily heavier) workouts less often (since they aren't on hormones to help them recover) and eating less food in total.
The thing they have to realize is they will not get very big and lean without steroids plain and simple...
They might get "big" and fat if they stuff themselves but so what?
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Where insulin is present, it will exert its effects on ACC2, which will blunt the transfer of fatty acids to the mitochondria, resulting in fatty acids not used for energy. The larger amount of insulin that is present, the larger amount of mitochondria will be effected.
You have more than one mitochondria in your body....and you have more than one insulin receptor. The scale of the fatty acid blunting will be proportional to the scale of insulin present. The more amount of insulin, the more amount of ACC2. The less insulin, the less ACC2.
Ok, thanks.
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It is more of a genetic thing with blacks. They have better genetics to survive a famine as their African enviroment weeded out individuals incapable via natural selection.
Their women are fat storage machines.
Yes, Adonis we can't argue with you on these points...
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Fricken' amazing. I'm sure in the bowels of Google Headquarters there's a bunch of sweating IT guys monitoring the huge spike in usage from a certain consumer and wondering whether they have google juice left. Give the boys a break, TA. LOL
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that's funny because you always hear guys saying that guys on drugs need MORE protein.
Actually steroids were used in germany under Hitlers control...Some of the Jews were given steroids so they could live longer on minimal amounts of proteins and overall calories...
While on steriods the body sucks up nitrogen like a spong...So you could get by with less protein..
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=100617.0
That's how i used Adonis's Principles to lose some chest mass, and make my body look more symmetrical...Thanks Adonis you made it all possible.. :o
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=100617.0
That's how i used Adonis's Principles to lose some chest mass, and make my body look more symmetrical...Thanks Adonis you made it all possible.. :o
hahaah thats a funny thread. this dude doesnt realize the pesticides, herbicides, poor handling of the food, white buns, deep fryers with tons of fat and shit.the veggies are stored in a freezer for months at a time. the lettuce is brown half the time.
do yo uthink the mcdonalds website is going to post a negative outlook?
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hahaah thats a funny thread. this dude doesnt realize the pesticides, herbicides, poor handling of the food, white buns, deep fryers with tons of fat and shit.the veggies are stored in a freezer for months at a time. the lettuce is brown half the time.
do yo uthink the mcdonalds website is going to post a negative outlook?
I've never had brown lettuce at any McDonalds I've ate at.
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Actually steroids were used in germany under Hitlers control...Some of the Jews were given steroids so they could live longer on minimal amounts of proteins and overall calories...
While on steriods the body sucks up nitrogen like a spong...So you could get by with less protein..
I doubt Jews were given steroids when Hitler was still in charge. Hitler himself used Schering Testoviron though (according to the journals of his doctor).
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One thing I gotta say...
Most true natural bodybuilders (most of whom never compete but just train and follow the sport) almost always do a few things wrong when it comes to their eating...
1. They grossly OVERESTIMATE their lean body mass. ie. how much muscle they actually have.
2. They grossly UNDERESTIMATE their bodyfat levels.
The result is they eat way too much food/supplements whether it be from chicken breasts or mcdonalds it doesn't matter.
Most of them would look better doing shorter, harder (not necessarily heavier) workouts less often (since they aren't on hormones to help them recover) and eating less food in total.
The thing they have to realize is they will not get very big and lean without steroids plain and simple...
They might get "big" and fat if they stuff themselves but so what?
Very true jwb, the human body can do nothing with 4000+ kcals if it is not 'enhanced', well it can do something ofcourse but we all know what and it is not what we're seeking ;D
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Fricken' amazing. I'm sure in the bowels of Google Headquarters there's a bunch of sweating IT guys monitoring the huge spike in usage from a certain consumer and wondering whether they have google juice left. Give the boys a break, TA. LOL
I can see their faces now "what the fuck?, we need to block his IP address"
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The question is not if McDonalds is healthy or not, but why would you want to even eat that stuff? It is flavourless and about as appetising as sawdust, actually sawdust has a better texture than McDonalds. Covering cheap, flavourless, processed beef in tomato sauce and mayonnaise and sticking it in a horrible piece of bread does not make nice food. Anyone here could make nicer tasting food than McDonalds.
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The question is not if McDonalds is healthy or not, but why would you want to even eat that stuff? It is flavourless and about as appetising as sawdust, actually sawdust has a better texture than McDonalds. Covering cheap, flavourless, processed beef in tomato sauce and mayonnaise and sticking it in a horrible piece of bread does not make nice food. Anyone here could make nicer tasting food than McDonalds.
McDonald's tastes great. You're retarded. >:(
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McDonald's tastes great. You're retarded. >:(
No, I know what nice food tastes like :P
But seriously, any decent pub or chippy (not sure you get those in America) makes nicer burgers than McDonalds. Buy a decent quality lean mince (ground beef) and your burgers will taste nicer than McDonalds with very little effort. Buy a good quality cheese, fresh tomatoes, onions and lettuce. Go to a good bakery or supermarket with a good bread section and get some fresh baps (buns) for your burger. Much nicer than the cheap, processed crap that comes from McDoanlds and you also know some spotty teenager who doesn't wash his hands after wiping his ass didn't make your dinner!
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Do some research. The cancer rate go way up when cholesterol leverls go down too far. So do other diseases.
Wow I don't normally say this but you should really do research before speaking. I have done the research and in fact most (excluding the people who work for the meat and diary) nutrionists and doctors agree that a diet high in animal fat leads to skyrocketing rates of cancer. In fact here are but a few stats to prove my point. And please note I have nothing against meat or dairy but everything comes with a price.
risk of colon cancer for women who eat red meat daily compared to women who eat red meat once a month: 250 % greater.
risk of colon cancer for men who eat red meat weekly compared to those who don't. 38 % greater.
The stats for breast cancer are pretty much the same also researchers have determined a strong link between people who eat little meat to those who do when assessing your rates of contracting and ultimately dieing from lung cancer.
Source of stats:Dr. Singh American Journal of Epidemiology v.148 (1998) 761-74
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Fucking Protein powder, chicken breasts and rice.
I overate like a pig on purpose. My fault. What a waste.
TA, dont you think that if you ate clean (chicken, protein, rice) that you would have even better results than the ones you have now on your junk food diet? I just think its a bit restrictive to eat according to calories and GI index.
Although, I actually believe that your methods do work, I wonder if it is the best, because I think one of the main benefits of weight training was to raise metabolism high enough so that one can eat whatever they want and a lot of it.
I think the main problem with your principles is that most people cannot truly get full on rich tasty food (which might contain high fat content) while experiencing a caloric deficit.
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TA, dont you think that if you ate clean (chicken, protein, rice) that you would have even better results than the ones you have now on your junk food diet? I just think its a bit restrictive to eat according to calories and GI index.
Although, I actually believe that your methods do work, I wonder if it is the best, because I think one of the main benefits of weight training was to raise metabolism high enough so that one can eat whatever they want and a lot of it.
I think the main problem with your principles is that most people cannot truly get full on rich tasty food (which might contain high fat content) while experiencing a caloric deficit.
not to mention the constipation... up the soluble fibre content dude!
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I think the main problem with your principles is that most people cannot truly get full on rich tasty food (which might contain high fat content) while experiencing a caloric deficit.
I'll agree to a point. Food high in fat provide a much higher feeling of satiety than do protein or carb based foods. This is why many bodybuilders in a height of a bodybuilding diet often take a scoop of peanut butter to stave off hunger. The reality is in any caloric deficit you're going to have moments of hunger...there's no way around it.
What I still can't reconcile about this Adonis diet (which thus far is nothing new or earth shattering) is if it truly is muscle sparing and how well it will work once his case studies get down around 10% and attempt to get below that.
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one calorie = one calorie
I took thermodynamics at McGill University (Canada's Harvard) and TA is right about first and second laws of thermodynamics, but the problem is 300 calories from an organic fruit salad does not equal 300 calories from pizza or cheeseburgers. Although "fat foods" contain a variety of vitamins, minerals and nutrients that are requirements for the human body, they do not contain enough of them, while providing bad cholesterol.
TA says a lot of things that people want to argue:
"you can get cut on Mcdonalds, and ice cream, with no cardio"
"1 calorie = 1 calorie"
"People eat too much"
What people dont understand is that he is right
you can get cut on fast food, but the issue is you can't get full on real fast food (not low-cal fast food) and get cut.
If you eat fast food, you have to have smaller meals of it and get hungry randomly throughout the day
TA claims that his diet is easier to follow because you get to eat everyday food
but wouldnt it make more sense to eat cleaner foods with the same calories and higher protein levels w/ less bad cholesterol?
Just another scientific approach...
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one calorie = one calorie
I took thermodynamics at McGill University (Canada's Harvard) and TA is right about first and second laws of thermodynamics, but the problem is 300 calories from an organic fruit salad does not equal 300 calories from pizza or cheeseburgers. Although "fat foods" contain a variety of vitamins, minerals and nutrients that are requirements for the human body, they do not contain enough of them, while providing bad cholesterol.
TA says a lot of things that people want to argue:
"you can get cut on Mcdonalds, and ice cream, with no cardio"
"1 calorie = 1 calorie"
"People eat too much"
What people dont understand is that he is right
you can get cut on fast food, but the issue is you can't get full on real fast food (not low-cal fast food) and get cut.
If you eat fast food, you have to have smaller meals of it and get hungry randomly throughout the day
TA claims that his diet is easier to follow because you get to eat everyday food
but wouldnt it make more sense to eat cleaner foods with the same calories and higher protein levels w/ less bad cholesterol?
Just another scientific approach...
Ask anyone who uses my approach if they are hungry.
I have yet to encounter one that says they are.
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Ask anyone who uses my approach if they are hungry.
I have yet to encounter one that says they are.
All your current "clients" are just starting their diets. They haven't even begun to feel the hunger pains that forcing their bodies into single digit bodyfat will inflict on them. I say "force" as that's exactly what they're doing regardless of what they eat. Very few people have bodies that are naturally inclined to sit at 6 or 7% bodyfat so you must force your body to do so with severe caloric restriction and manipulatoin. And if you're truly at 4% or lower, and I truly doubt you are, and you're telling me you don't get hungry...very hungry during the day, then you are a liar.
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one calorie = one calorie
I took thermodynamics at McGill University (Canada's Harvard) and TA is right about first and second laws of thermodynamics, but the problem is 300 calories from an organic fruit salad does not equal 300 calories from pizza or cheeseburgers. Although "fat foods" contain a variety of vitamins, minerals and nutrients that are requirements for the human body, they do not contain enough of them, while providing bad cholesterol.
TA says a lot of things that people want to argue:
"you can get cut on Mcdonalds, and ice cream, with no cardio"
"1 calorie = 1 calorie"
"People eat too much"
What people dont understand is that he is right
you can get cut on fast food, but the issue is you can't get full on real fast food (not low-cal fast food) and get cut.
If you eat fast food, you have to have smaller meals of it and get hungry randomly throughout the day
TA claims that his diet is easier to follow because you get to eat everyday food
but wouldnt it make more sense to eat cleaner foods with the same calories and higher protein levels w/ less bad cholesterol?
Just another scientific approach...
No one is disagreeing that you cannot lose weight on this, thats not the point, the point is you are losing TOTAL bodyweight, thats easy, if you have a low calorie count you can lose weight on snickers and poodle shit and get lean, TA is claiming that bodybuilders can use it to get cut for a show.....you cannot, this type of eating is even unhealthy for the overweight, the diabetic and people with high BP, I would argue (and I do) that there has to be a macro and micronutriant balance to make it even more effective. I'll say it again, if you have a diet that is high in fats, high in sodium (Bigmac has over a 1000mg) and high in LDL, it will cause BIG problems especially if it hereditary!
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No, I know what nice food tastes like :P
But seriously, any decent pub or chippy (not sure you get those in America) makes nicer burgers than McDonalds. Buy a decent quality lean mince (ground beef) and your burgers will taste nicer than McDonalds with very little effort. Buy a good quality cheese, fresh tomatoes, onions and lettuce. Go to a good bakery or supermarket with a good bread section and get some fresh baps (buns) for your burger. Much nicer than the cheap, processed crap that comes from McDoanlds and you also know some spotty teenager who doesn't wash his hands after wiping his ass didn't make your dinner!
That's what i do.
I fire up my grill year round and make some nice quality burgers. I'll eat Mickey D's in a pinch, but i don't go out of my way for that stuff
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disgusted has immaculate hair
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I guess replacing meals 2,4 and 7 with cheeseburgers is out of the question then..... :-\
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Delusional Adonis, you are still full of BS. Hope this helps ;D
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one calorie = one calorie
I took thermodynamics at McGill University (Canada's Harvard) and TA is right about first and second laws of thermodynamics, but the problem is 300 calories from an organic fruit salad does not equal 300 calories from pizza or cheeseburgers. Although "fat foods" contain a variety of vitamins, minerals and nutrients that are requirements for the human body, they do not contain enough of them, while providing bad cholesterol.
TA says a lot of things that people want to argue:
"you can get cut on Mcdonalds, and ice cream, with no cardio"
"1 calorie = 1 calorie"
"People eat too much"
What people dont understand is that he is right
you can get cut on fast food, but the issue is you can't get full on real fast food (not low-cal fast food) and get cut.
If you eat fast food, you have to have smaller meals of it and get hungry randomly throughout the day
TA claims that his diet is easier to follow because you get to eat everyday food
but wouldnt it make more sense to eat cleaner foods with the same calories and higher protein levels w/ less bad cholesterol?
Just another scientific approach...
Like the Canadian dollar your degree is only worth .86 of an american degree. A calorie is a calorie violates the second law of thermodynamics.
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one calorie = one calorie
I took thermodynamics at McGill University (Canada's Harvard)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
keep telling yourself that
BW AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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Basic. 4 exercises 4 to 6 sets, reps around 12. The standard stuff, Incline bar or DB, flys, CC, stuff like that. Some machines I like too.
Do you believe in overtraining if your not on the sauce, doing all those sets?
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Hey Disgusted how is King looking/doing? Guy takes forever to respond to emails. :'(