Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Insider X on July 16, 2006, 04:05:15 PM
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Buzz yesterday at the NY Pro figure is that Vince Taylor has told Wayne DeMilia that he will not be competing in the Night of Champions and will instead compete at the Olympia. The IFBB offered Vince a huge sum of money to guest pose on the same night as the NOC for the IFBB North Americas, and a contract with a supplement company before the Olympia.
However, Wayne DeMilia has a contract signed by Vince Taylor to compete in the NOC, and has spent thousands promoting him as such. With Vince now choosing to stay with the IFBB, does that mean that Wayne can sue Vince Taylor for any loss and expenses that he has incurred.
Official statements coming soon...
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Welcome to this mornings' news :P
On a side note, interesting that teh IFBB is that scared of the PDI.
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interesting that teh IFBB is that scared of the PDI.
That's the real story here.
If the IFBB really thought the PDI was "no big deal" that was "gonna fail anyway", why do this? Despite what company-man Bob says, this proves the IFBB is scared shitless!
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That's the real story here.
If the IFBB really thought the PDI was "no big deal" that was "gonna fail anyway", why do this? Despite what company-man Bob says, this proves the IFBB is scared shitless!
If you look at the rest of the PDI lineup, you can see that Wayne is snatching up a lot of young, athletic-looking guys, many of whom have a full head of hair. Way more marketable than 5 bald chemical maniacs you see finish top 5 at every show. Vince isn't a huge loss, but it is a loss nonetheless. IFBB must be pretty scared. I'd love to know how much money they gave him to guest pose that night.
Also, this is the first time we see 'Hardball' being played.
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Interesting...
Sounds like wayne might have been played by vince. not like the IFBB were gonna give him a contract or organise a sponsor without the PDI forming and him saying he'd cross over on that radio show (but not signing anything).
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If you guys will look back to the early days of the IFBB, you'll know exactly *why* a rumor like this might well be true (paying a marquee competitor NOT to compete elsewhere).
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DeMillia should go to Manion and cut a deal.... ask him to call off his dogs if PDI made NPC it's exclusive "qualifying" amatuer conduit. Manion doesn't really give a shit about the IFBB except as it relates to the NPC, his real "cash cow". He'd probably fucck Weider over in a second as long as his income was protected.
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Interesting...
Sounds like wayne might have been played by vince. not like the IFBB were gonna give him a contract or organise a sponsor without the PDI forming and him saying he'd cross over on that radio show (but not signing anything).
Vince signed a contract to compete.
If this is indeed true - we've heard this rumor before - I'd have to think the IFBB is going to be viewed as playing dirty tricks... Wayne went out of his way to ensure that all his guys would be able to do the O also, and that the NOC didn't interfere with any IFBB shows (scheduled on the off-weekend between the Montreal and the AC Pro).
Manion and the IFBB are scared. Period.
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DeMillia should go to Manion and cut a deal.... ask him to call off his dogs if PDI made NPC it's exclusive "qualifying" amatuer conduit. Manion doesn't really give a shit about the IFBB except as it relates to the NPC, his real "cash cow". He'd probably fucck Weider over in a second as long as his income was protected.
Wayne doesn't have anything the IFBB wants except Lee Priest. VT was a big deal because of his legend status and the quality of his comeback condition this year.
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Eight weeks til the NOC. IFBB is scared and playing dirty.
They just gave Pro Division, Inc it's first major credibility ;)
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Except for Lee, are you guys really impressed with the lineup of the NOC this year?
Just a question.
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Except for Lee, are you guys really impressed with the lineup of the NOC this year?
Just a question.
I'd pay $30 to watch it not $100+ put it that way...
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The deadline for Vince to decide to compete in the Mr. Olympia was last Friday. That is technically, when all contracts so far of who is competing in the Mr. Olympia should of been in, disregarding the upcoming contests. So Vince had to decide by then.
As for having a contract to compete at the NOC, I am pretty sure that is true, otherwise there would not have been advertisements, contests and brochures with Vince on the cover. But everything should be made official, more or less, by tomorrow, the start of a new business day.
Off the subject, the weekend has been fun, but Friday's Shawn Ray Charity Golf Tournament took a toll out of me, with 100+ degree heat, but still $25,000 was raised for the children.
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who won the golf event?
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I wonder what kind of money they are paying Vince to "Guest Pose"?
The IFBB won absolutely no friends with this move. Anybody who has tix for the NOC will forever hate the IFBB (even more). And Vince will bring zero more people to the O that weren't already going. Vince may be sued for way more than he will make at the posing. Wow - IFBB morons, you did it again!
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Except for Lee, are you guys really impressed with the lineup of the NOC this year?
Just a question.
Of course. With guys like RHINO, the PDI shows it is well on the way to returning bodybuilding to the days of the smaller, yet far more aesteticly-pleasing and symetrical physiques; not to mention more marketable-looking competitors with full heads of hair who look nothing at all like a cross between Popeye and Don Rickles.
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Off the subject, the weekend has been fun, but Friday's Shawn Ray Charity Golf Tournament took a toll out of me, with 100+ degree heat, but still $25,000 was raised for the children.
What did you shoot, Ron?
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who won the golf event?
Bob, of course.
BB.com made a substantial contribution. ;D
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The deadline for Vince to decide to compete in the Mr. Olympia was last Friday. That is technically, when all contract so far of who is competing in the Mr. Olympia should of been in, disregarding the upcoming contests. So Vince had to decide by then.
As for having a contract to compete at the NOC, I am pretty sure that is true, otherwise there would not have been advertisements, contests and brochures with Vince on the cover.
But everything should be made official, more or less, by tomorrow, the state of a new business day.
Off the subject, the weekend has been fun, but Friday's Shawn Ray Charity Golf Tournament took a toll out of me, with 100+ degree heat, but still $25,000 was raised.
who was the best golfer from the pros?
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Who won the event?
The children did...
Will start another thread tonight on the golf event... but I can tell you that somone in the group won a white BMW 525i with the Hole in One event. I have never seen someone win a car in a hole in one. But it really did happen here!
But it was fun watching people try to hit the ball...
And no, Bob did not even come in the top three at the event. In fact, Bob's teammates, 4 guys were suberb golfers, and even asked as to be quiet to they can concentrate on hitting the ball. I think Bob was humbled by them, serious golfers...
What did you shoot, Ron?
Pictures of the golf tournament, the banquet, Kevin Levrone and others eating chocolate cake.
who was the best golfer from the pros?
Bob Cicherillo is the best golfer at the moment, although Idrise Ward-El can play well, but he is in serious training right now for the Europa Super Show!
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Bob, of course.
BB.com made a substantial contribution to ensure that this happened. ;D
Also, someone hid Rusty Jeffers' clubs.
And, the final scoresheets had a sudden woodchipper accident before anyone could read them.
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Also, someone hid Rusty Jeffers' clubs.
And, the final scoresheets had a sudden woodchipper accident before anyone could read them.
LOL. ;D
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The IFBB doesn't pay athletes to guest pose...promoters do.
Vince has the ability to compete in the Olympia, just like everyone else that has qualified...nothing more, nothing less....
It was VINCE'S decision to take a pass on the PDI...we'll have more info on tomorrows "Pro BB Weekly" broadcast, of course.
I wonder if Wayne will attempt to fine Vince, or if he's REALLY all for the athletes...? Could be like old times...
Lets see how many other conspiracy theories you fools can can up with before tomorrow....lolol.
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The IFBB doesn't pay athletes to guest pose...promoters do.
pass the buck.
I wonder if Wayne will attempt to fine Vince, or if he's REALLY all for the athletes...? Could be like old times...
He has spent thousands of dollars. Vince has a signed contract. Bob, suppose you decided to start hocking VYO product tomorrow - if BBing.com had a problem, would it mean they were anti-supplement? Or, just trying to stay in business?
Wayne is trying to run a show. Your instant response of "It wasn't us! It was the promoter!" smacks of effort.
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Since PDI is a corporation and not a sports federation how is wayne gonna enforce anything on Vince?
He didn't pay him any money for services rendered to the company. a court would throw it out IMO...
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240 don't blow a gasket again dude these things happen... :)
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If Wayne is TRULY for the athletes, as he claims...he'll wish Vince well and move on. It will be mighty tough to enforce a contract to compete in a show for a organization that has yet to see the light of day...what are the damages?
Passing the buck? to who?? Promoters pay for guest posers...the IFBB doesn't pay athletes anything last time I checked.
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If Wayne is TRULY for the athletes, as he claims...he'll wish Vince well and move on. It will be mighty tough to enforce a contract to compete in a show for a organization that has yet to see the light of day...what are the damages?
Passing the buck? to who?? Promoters pay for guest posers...the IFBB doesn't pay athletes anything last time I checked.
be nice if they did though...
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Yet to see the light of day? PDI is a business that is currently operating. They've spent thousands on advertising using Vince's likeness.
If I sign a contract with Jessica Simpson to do a concert, and I advertise and sell tickets, then she changes her mind, guess what - she owes me damages. I thought that woudl be common sense. ince broke a contract with a company.
And I say "passing the buck" because everyone and their mother knows that some NPC event just happening to pay Vince Taylor a dumptruck full of $ the same night as the NOC is a *mighty* big coincidence.
I know it's fun to call us fools with conspiracy theories, but it's insulting to our intelligence to insinuate the IFBB didn't know anything (although it was IFBB guys breaking the news today. hmm) ...
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the IFBB doesn't pay athletes anything last time I checked.
monster truth right there! :o
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Get wayne to email you a copy of his contracts and post it them we'll have a debate about how air tight it is.
Sounds like it was more like a letter of intent which means nothing.
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Yet to see the light of day? PDI is a business that is currently operating. They've spent thousands on advertising using Vince's likeness.
If I sign a contract with Jessica Simpson to do a concert, and I advertise and sell tickets, then she changes her mind, guess what - she owes me damages. I thought that woudl be common sense. ince broke a contract with a company.
And I say "passing the buck" because everyone and their mother knows that some rag-tag NPC event just happening to pay Vince Taylor a dumptruck full of $ the same night as teh NOC is a *mighty* big coincidence.
I know it's fun to call us fools with conspiracy theories, but it's insulting to our intelligence to insinuate the IFBB didn't know anything (although it was IFBB guys breaking the news today. hmm) ...
If Vince really thought there were mountains of money to be made in the PDI...he would've simply declined any guest posing offers he's received, and stuck with what he believed in.
Ever consider there were promises made to Vince by Wayne that haven't yet been forfilled? maybe Vince should sue Wayne for damages...!
Theres always two sides to a story...I do find it amusing that the "fools" automatically start bad-mouthing the IFBB and not Vince. It is clearly a decision made by Vince...no one has forced his hand...
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If Vince really thought there were montains of money to be made in the PDI...he would've simply declined any guest posing offers he's received, and stuck with what he believed in.
Ever consider there were promises made to Vince by Wayne that haven't yet been forfilled? maybe Vince should sue Wayne for damages...!
Theres always two sides to a story...I do find it amusing that the "fools" automaticaly start bad-mouthing the IFBB and not Vince. It is clearly a decision made by Vince...no one has forced his hand...
If vince has walked away with an some more sponsorships/contracts due to all this then props to the guy.
There wasn't much heat surrounding him before the PDI so he has played it well IMO.
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Ever consider there were promises made to Vince by Wayne that haven't yet been forfilled? maybe Vince should sue Wayne for damages...!
Are you just wildly throwing out "what-if's", or do you have a specific example?
Cause I could pretty easily say "Ever consider .... " and pretty much make up anything. Without substanstiating it with fact, there is no credibility.
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hehehe I know exactly what is happening with Vince. But, I won't tell. And when it happens, mark this post cause you will see why I won't say anything. 240 screen print this post and see what happens after the NOC. Oh and by the way this isn't something I made up it comes from the horse's mouth.
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hehehe I know exactly what is happening with Vince. But, I won't tell. And when it happens, mark this post cause you will see why I won't say anything. 240 screen print this post and see what happens after the NOC. Oh and by the way this isn't something I made up it comes from the horse's mouth.
Oooh i like the sound of this. You gonna make us wait 2 months to hear it? :)
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hehehe I know exactly what is happening with Vince. But, I won't tell. And when it happens, mark this post cause you will see why I won't say anything. 240 screen print this post and see what happens after the NOC. Oh and by the way this isn't something I made up it comes from the horse's mouth.
Vince might be saying plenty of things to plenty of people to keep everyone guessing and to raise his market value even higher.
whatever brings him the most $ is where he will go as he should. the guy has kids to feed...
promises made in july mean nothing in september even if some cash has been thrown his way under the table.
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Request for chick...
if Vince DOES do the Olympia, comes in as sharp as the aussie pro (with perhaps a little more quad size) and still gets the shaft by the judges can you PLEASE PLEASE tell the powers they are FVCKING BLIND!!!
VT is what bodybuilders should look like not beer geg badell and co...
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promises made in july mean nothing in september even if some cash has been thrown his way under the table.
I think this is where I'm seeing it differently.
If you sign a contract with a company and do not honor it, they can sue you for damages. If the PDI, a private company, made a contract with Vince and he breaks it, they have legal cause to sue him. Just like if Britney Spears cancelled a show and you lost your shirt on tickets and the auditorium as the promoter.
I guess time will tell what the full story is.
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I think this is where I'm seeing it differently.
If you sign a contract with a company and do not honor it, they can sue you for damages. If the PDI, a private company, made a contract with Vince and he breaks it, they have legal cause to sue him. Just like if Britney Spears cancelled a show and you lost your shirt on tickets and the auditorium as the promoter.
I guess time will tell what the full story is.
Spend some more time in business for yourself and see how hard it is to not get screwed over by people and get your own back no matter what is written in a "contract" brother!
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WHAT EVENT IS THE SAME NIGHT AS THE NOC THAT HE IS POSING AT?
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Request for chick...
if Vince DOES do the Olympia, comes in as sharp as the aussie pro (with perhaps a little more quad size) and still gets the shaft by the judges can you PLEASE PLEASE tell the powers they are FVCKING BLIND!!!
VT is what bodybuilders should look like not beer geg badell and co...
Vince will have his hands full at the Olympia...there is plenty of talent.
Lets wish him the best and see what happens.
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WHAT EVENT IS THE SAME NIGHT AS THE NOC THAT HE IS POSING AT?
I believe the North American Championships...
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The IFBB doesn't pay athletes to guest pose...promoters do.
Vince has the ability to compete in the Olympia, just like everyone else that has qualified...nothing more, nothing less....
It was VINCE'S decision to take a pass on the PDI...we'll have more info on tomorrows "Pro BB Weekly" broadcast, of course.
I wonder if Wayne will attempt to fine Vince, or if he's REALLY all for the athletes...? Could be like old times...
Lets see how many other conspiracy theories you fools can can up with before tomorrow....lolol.
Come on, the last part of your statement is really dumb.
If Taylor signed a contract, and he was most assuredly one of the biggest draws for the show, then Wayne would have every right to do something because he is getting screwed-over. I am sure he has a lot invested in the PDI and if someone who is contractually obligated to compete pulls-out that could have major consequences for his investment.
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I believe the North American Championships...
Every other pro except Vince and Lee are free that night. Makes me think something is up...
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If Vince really thought there were mountains of money to be made in the PDI...he would've simply declined any guest posing offers he's received, and stuck with what he believed in.
Ever consider there were promises made to Vince by Wayne that haven't yet been forfilled? maybe Vince should sue Wayne for damages...!
Theres always two sides to a story...I do find it amusing that the "fools" automatically start bad-mouthing the IFBB and not Vince. It is clearly a decision made by Vince...no one has forced his hand...
Good point about promises to Vince but the way to deal with that is through legal channels not by pulling out once you have contractually obligated yourself.
Of couse, this all assumes there was a contract. There may not have been.
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Vince will have his hands full at the Olympia...there is plenty of talent.
Lets wish him the best and see what happens.
I'm not saying the guy will win the thing but his "shape" is what they should start rewarding over pure size even if it costs them a few hardcore fans for a year or two...
Even my dear old mom thinks VT has a great body and she hates the sport...
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Every other pro except Vince and Lee are free that night. Makes me think something is up...
Excellent point.
You have every other pro free, 2 weeks out from the Mr O, and the N American promoters have to choose Vince, who hasn't competed since the Aussie? LMAO...
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Buzz yesterday at the NY Pro figure is that Vince Taylor has told Wayne DeMilia that he will not be competing in the Night of Champions and will instead compete at the Olympia. The IFBB offered Vince a huge sum of money to guest pose on the same night as the NOC for the IFBB North Americas, and a contract with a supplement company before the Olympia.
However, Wayne DeMilia has a contract signed by Vince Taylor to compete in the NOC, and has spent thousands promoting him as such. With Vince now choosing to stay with the IFBB, does that mean that Wayne can sue Vince Taylor for any loss and expenses that he has incurred.
Official statements coming soon...
Hey they never offered me guest posings or contracts - mine is up soon. Gee - i never feel the love :)
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Excellent point.
You have every other pro free, 2 weeks out from the Mr O, and the N American promoters have to choose Vince, who hasn't competed since the Aussie? LMAO...
Of course they were steered towards the guy but big deal. Whatever benefits vince and nobody else is what i'm for... fvck the federations
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Excellent point.
You have every other pro free, 2 weeks out from the Mr O, and the N American promoters have to choose Vince, who hasn't competed since the Aussie? LMAO...
Vince CHOSE to take the gig...the promoters don't force anyone to guest pose. He also guest posed at the Jr. Nationals last month...
the point is moot.
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the point is moot.
Not from a legal standpoint, obviously. Signed contracts were broken.
Or from a PR standpoint - everyone knows the IFBB is scared now and is playing dirty to undercut Wayne.
Other than that, yes, moot.
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This was not to be announced until Monday but oh well.
Once you hear the radio show, Monday, you honestly won't blame Vince Taylor for dropping out. There's a lot of stuff you folks don't know about the situation and believe me, you DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS TOMMORROW.
240, as Bob stated, promoters pay athletes to guest pose. Find out tommorrow about "the contract" and what the real deal is.
As far as any other IFBB pro is concerned, I will remind you that anyone of you folks who decides to get froggy and jump to the PDI will be suspended from the IFBB for an undetermined amount of time. There is no word on NPC competitors but I would check with your local NPC chairman to see whether it affects your placing. Honestly if you're a top NPC competitor, I wouldn't risk losing your chance to become an IFBB pro for an organization that has not proven itself yet.
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I thought Chick was Pro competitors Rep but what is it he does,like what happend about judging posing round? and as if it would change anything in places.If he is competitors rep he should be working to have competitors compete where ever the money can be made.So is Lee Priest ok to do PDI and IFBB Pro shows?
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I thought Chick was Pro competitors Rep but what is it he does,like what happend about judging posing round? and as if it would change anything in places.If he is competitors rep he should be working to have competitors compete where ever the money can be made.So is Lee Priest ok to do PDI and IFBB Pro shows?
He can turn up at an IFBB event after he does the NOC but whether he is allowed onstage is another story...
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I thought Chick was Pro competitors Rep but what is it he does,like what happend about judging posing round? and as if it would change anything in places.If he is competitors rep he should be working to have competitors compete where ever the money can be made.So is Lee Priest ok to do PDI and IFBB Pro shows?
not from the IFBB's position....it's a clear violation of the rules.
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Does that go for Pro IFBB judges as well???If so I think you might want to check a few names that judge Pro shows.Just a thought. ;D
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Chick is the IFBB pro rep not the rep for every bodybuilder everywhere...
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I thought Lee Priest and Vince Taylor were IFBB Pros.
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I didn't make the rules ... they were put in place in the 1940's.
If the IFBB athletes wish to challenge the ruling, I'll be more than happy to submit it.
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I thought Lee Priest and Vince Taylor were IFBB Pros.
They are, whats your point?
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This is old news kids. Straight from Vince's mouth last month at Jr. Nationals...
Muscle Mayhem: Are you a PDI Pro?
Vince Taylor: No, I didn't sign any contract with the PDI. I am an IFBB pro and have been for 17 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psq2yInRAH8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psq2yInRAH8)
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Just a question Chick, if the show gets judged in the morning and the top 15 come out and pose at the Nite Show when does the Posing round get judged??So if a great poser is 18th he does not even get to be judged so no chance to improve placing now forget about 18th what about 10th being better poser than 5th where is his place and when do they the judges judge Posing Round??? ::)
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I think we are forgetting the second part here - he is also going to do the O? Does that mean he isn't doing any PDI shows at all (including the NOC)?
Just seems odd to me... Maybe he misses the NOC due to another guest posing - but then he does the O too? Why - for the grand in prize money?
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Ask Lee Priest.
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Hey they never offered me guest posinging or contract mine is up soon. Jee i never feel the love :)
Tell Chick to put a good word in for you. ;) Hell Lee he kisses enough ass for everyone :D
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This story keeps getting more interesting! This was back on Apr 11th
http://pdiradio.com/pr/8.pdf
PDI ANNOUNCES THE SIGNING OF VINCE TAYLOR TO COMPETE IN NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS
Pro Division Inc is proud to announce that Vince Taylor has signed a contract to compete in NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS XXVII, Saturday, September 16th, at the Town Hall Theater in New York City. Because of prior obligations to the IFBB, Vince has guaranteed his joining PDI effective June 18, 2006. Vince Taylor has had a career that is beyond words and exceeds anything imaginable. His first amateur victory was in 1983 when he won the Mr. Berlin event in Germany. In 1987 he won the AAU medium height class at the Mr. America and followed that in 1988 by winning the overall NPC Nationals. His Nationals victory gained him pro status in the IFBB.
His first IFBB pro contest resulted in a victory as Vince won the 1989 Night of Champions XI. Since his first victory in New York in 1989, he has followed that up with twenty one more victories that include the Grand Prix of Switzerland, the Grand Prix of Spain, the Grand Prix of Italy, the Grand Prix of Finland, the Grand Prix of Denmark, the Grand Prix of England, the Grand Prix of France, the Grand Prix of Ukraine, the San Jose Pro Invitational, the Niagara Falls Pro Invitational, two time winner of the Pittsburgh Pro Invitational, two time winner of the Ironman Pro Invitational, the Arnold Classic, the Arnold Classic Masters and five time Masters Olympia Champion.
But even with more victories than any other Bodybuilder competing today, Vince is better known for his posing routines. The first time he unveiled his robot routine at the 1991 Olympia he brought the house down and exited the stage to a standing ovation. He expanded on the creativity of the routine in subsequent years and brought posing and presentation to new heights when he incorporated the Macarena into the robot routine by the mid to late 1990’s. His ingenious posing has captivated Bodybuilding audiences worldwide as Vince Taylor has been the most requested athletes in the past 15 years.
“I look at myself as more of a performer and entertainer than as a Bodybuilder” states Vince. He goes on to say “PDI is offering to me exactly what and how I feel Pro Bodybuilding should be. With no restrictions, I will attempt to do something at NOC this September that only Vince Taylor could bring to the entertainment stage. I will raise the bar so high in presentation; it will not be equaled for years. NOC is where I made my pro debut, NOC is where I won my first pro show, and NOC in 2006 is where I will revolutionize posing…….again!”
Pro Division CEO Wayne S. DeMilia states, “We are ecstatic and elated to sign Vince Taylor as a PDI athlete and to have him contracted to compete in the first PDI event, Night of Champions XXVII. Anyone who is lucky enough to have tickets for the evening finals will remember Vince’s performance for years to come. I am sure that Vince will have the New York crowd in the palm of his hand by the end of the night.” Anyone wishing to purchase tickets for Night of Champions or if there are athletes wishing to join PDI, they should contact us at prodivisioninc@yahoo.com.
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MONSTER conflicting stories.
A Press Release saying there is a signed contract and the man himself is on video stating he didn't sign a contract. :o
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MONSTER conflicting stories. A Press Release saying there is a signed contract and the man himself is on video stating he didn't sign a contract. :o
haha i know dude. This is funny.
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Just a question Chick, if the show gets judged in the morning and the top 15 come out and pose at the Nite Show when does the Posing round get judged??So if a great poser is 18th he does not even get to be judged so no chance to improve placing now forget about 18th what about 10th being better poser than 5th where is his place and when do they the judges judge Posing Round??? ::)
You must FIRST make the cut...THEN you get to show your stuff via the posing routine.
If your physique wasn't good enough to get you into the top 15 cut...no routine in the world would elevate you enough to place...remember, it's a combination of physique AND posing.
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Hey they never offered me guest posinging or contract mine is up soon. Jee i never feel the love :)
They know you are too smart to say yes... :)
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MONSTER conflicting stories. A Press Release saying there is a signed contract and the man himself is on video stating he didn't sign a contract. :o
Actually, this press release came out on Tues, Apr 12, the day after Vince appeared on the radio show and said he was going PDI.
Then there was the Jr nationals stuff.
Then there was vince's new announcement (anyone have it?), press release saying he was definitely PDI.
Now this rumor. This is pretty amusing!
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Yes i am signed for the NOC and the Olympia. In the new Flex magazine has me down for the Olympia. Travel arrangments have been made for the Olympia so i guess if they suspend me they just wasted money on travel and hotel. Who knows it's a fucked up rule. They never follow any other rule. Just go through their rule book and see how many are broken by athletes and officials. Come on the rules are a joke.
It's shame people can't make money while they are able to. The IFBB is against that. Why competition is good for everyone. What does the IFBB lose.? NOTHING! I can't understand it so someone explain it to me.:)
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Yes i am signed for the NOC and the Olympia.In the new Flex magazine has me down for the Olympia.Travel arrangments have been made for the Olympia so i guess if they suspend me they just wasted money on travel and hotel.Who knows it's a fucked up rule.They never follow any other rule.Just go through their rule book and see how many are broken by athletes and officials.Come on the rules are a joke.
It's shame people can't make money while they are able to.The IFBB is against that.Why competition is good for everyone.What does the IFBB loose.? NOTHING! I can't understand it so someone explain it to me.:)
The Athletes Rep seems to believe what's best for the athletes is for the employers to have all the power. I know, it defies common sense and all rules of a free market. But who are you going to believe, "Fined of Mencia" or your lying eyes? :)
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The Athletes Rep seems to believe what's best for the athletes is for the employers to have all the power. I know, it defies common sense and all rules of a free market. But who are you going to believe, "Fined of Mencia" or your lying eyes? :)
Yeah, that must have been what I was thinking when I tried starting a union for the bodybuilders.
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Yeah, that must have been what I was thinking when I tried starting a union for the bodybuilders.
And I tried starting a run for congress.
You've had two years.
Finished anything yet?
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The Athletes Rep seems to believe what's best for the athletes is for the employers to have all the power. I know, it defies common sense and all rules of a free market. But who are you going to believe, "Fined of Mencia" or your lying eyes? :)
hahahaha, "fined of Mencia", classic.
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I think you are Right Lee but with your name they will burn you as normal.The IFBB make money so do the promoters the bodybuilders get such a small amount of money it's a Joke.Something your Rep might be able to help, when you think Branch got $900 more than what's up for the Mr Getbig at the aussie show wow $1000 for 5th and you must have got close to what the promoter made as you got 2nd so much money no wonder chick does such a great job protecting all ifbb pros.
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Perhaps that was a bit harsh.
Try this - Start a union and join it. get a few of your friends to join. it might have no bargaining power in the beginning, but as the numbers grow, so will its power. Get a lawyer and set it up. I don't see why it's been talked about for so long with no results.
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And I tried starting a run for congress.
You've had two years.
Finished anything yet?
It's the athletes themselves that werent interested, end of story.
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Yes i am signed for the NOC and the Olympia.In the new Flex magazine has me down for the Olympia.Travel arrangments have been made for the Olympia so i guess if they suspend me they just wasted money on travel and hotel.Who knows it's a fucked up rule.They never follow any other rule.Just go through their rule book and see how many are broken by athletes and officials.Come on the rules are a joke.
It's shame people can't make money while they are able to.The IFBB is against that.Why competition is good for everyone.What does the IFBB loose.? NOTHING! I can't understand it so someone explain it to me.:)
I'll explain it to you, Lee but you'll not like what I have to say.
The IFBB has rules, rules that have been around for many decades. This includes rules regarding competing and outside activities. Some are enforced on competitors and some are not.
Lee McCrutchen Priest, you get hit each and every time you do something simply because of your mouth. You've dropped out of many IFBB pro show with no real notice. You've ran off at the mouth. Finally, lets not forget your MD article "f**k the Olympia, I'm doing the Arnold" with you giving the finger and talking shit about Ben Weider.
You think that stuff gets forgotten??? Not in your case. You basically have a bulleye dead square on your ass as obvious as that tattoo that you have on your face. You crossed the boss and now its time to pay the piper.
You will get suspended once you compete at the NOC but you may as well call it a lifetime banishment this time and you know I'm right about that. Your career unfortunately will die at the NOC and its a shame because you are a great bodybuilder. At least you'll have more time for your race cars
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Still waiting for that posing round judges sheet that changes places of any of the top 15 in any recent Pro show.Maybe Lee has a copy of one.Lee?
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It doesn't exsist...the posing round is a joke, everyone knows that...except the athletes.
I tried getting it changed so that the posing round wouldn't be judged...more of a show round with a money prize/ entertainment round, etc.
The athletes wanted it to remain the same, even though they know they aren't really getting judged on it...go figure.
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It doesn't exsist...the posing round is a joke, everyone knows that...except the athletes.
I tried getting it changed so that the posing round wouldn't be judged...more of a show round with a money prize/ entertainment round, etc.
The athletes wanted it to remain the same, even though they know they aren't really getting judged on it...go figure.
Yeah that was a crazy one. the prejudging could have had more scrutiny and a fairer result for all...
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I believe the North American Championships...
I beleive that you had a hand in this "opportunity" manifesting itself, therefore, you should be familiar with where he is to guest pose
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I'll explain it to you, Lee but you'll not like what I have to say.
The IFBB has rules, rules that have been around for many decades. This includes rules regarding competing and outside activities. Some are enforced on competitors and some are not.
Lee McCrutchen Priest, you get hit each and every time you do something simply because of your mouth. You've dropped out of many IFBB pro show with no real notice. You've ran off at the mouth. Finally, lets not forget your MD article "f**k the Olympia, I'm doing the Arnold" with you giving the finger and talking shit about Ben Weider.
You think that stuff gets forgotten??? Not in your case. You basically have a bulleye dead square on your ass as obvious as that tattoo that you have on your face. You crossed the boss and now its time to pay the piper.
You will get suspended once you compete at the NOC but you may as well call it a lifetime banishment this time and you know I'm right about that. Your career unfortunately will die at the NOC and its a shame because you are a great bodybuilder. At least you'll have more time for your race cars
Do you really think Lee gives a shit? He has been speaking his mind throughout his career. At least he is not part of the IFBB puppet show. He has my respect.
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FOR f**k SAKE another 1...wot the f**k is the problem here?
i love just reading your stupid posts,i get an obvious impression that you're writing to get attention from other children on these boards...if the pros are posting here we should be fuckin greatful,
not trying to take the piss to get respect from other stupid "plastic fans of the sport"
Its the truth and even Lee Priest would acknowledge that I am correct. He knows his actions have written his path in the IFBB
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Thank you Chick for your honest Reply.I knew that but wanted to hear it from you.Big points for your honesty.Just another stupid rule that falls into the don't worry about them they are BBs and not real smart,just look at how much money they spend on prep and how much they win.IFBB have something with that stupid statement.
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Thank you Chick for your honest Reply.I knew that but wanted to hear it from you.Big points for your honesty.Just another stupid rule that falls into the don't worry about them they are BBs and not real smart,just look at how much money they spend on prep and how much they win.IFBB have something with that stupid statement.
:-*
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i dont care if its the truth or not, you put too much imagination into your post,trying to be funny and disrespecting a great bodybuilder...i just dont see how you can come up with this shit. do you actually like bodybuilding or do you just dislike lee?
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I beleive that you had a hand in this "opportunity" manifesting itself
therefore, you should be familiar with where he is to guest pose
I try and get as much work for IFBB pros as I can...tv, movies, guest posings, appearances, etc....I do what I can...If I can get work for Vince, I certainly will...
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I try and get as much work for IFBB pros as I can...tv, movies, guest posings, appearances, etc....I do what I can...If I can get work for Vince, I certainly will...
Did you set up the guest posing at the N. Americans?
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Did you set up the guest posing at the N. Americans?
nope, that one wasn't mine...I believe Gary Udit is the promoter of the N.A.
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Chick!...what do you think will be your next contest?
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Gunter should have played Superman in the recent movie
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Gunter should have played Superman in the recent movie
NO!!!.........GUNTER should have played ARNOLD in "see arnold run"...still not seen that yet
he would have been good as superman aswell
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Chick!...what do you think will be your next contest?
no idea...
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Chick is doing the Mr. Getbig. He's shooting for 4th. :P
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I'll explain it to you, Lee but you'll not like what I have to say.
The IFBB has rules, rules that have been around for many decades. This includes rules regarding competing and outside activities. Some are enforced on competitors and some are not.
Lee McCrutchen Priest, you get hit each and every time you do something simply because of your mouth. You've dropped out of many IFBB pro show with no real notice. You've ran off at the mouth. Finally, lets not forget your MD article "f**k the Olympia, I'm doing the Arnold" with you giving the finger and talking shit about Ben Weider.
You think that stuff gets forgotten??? Not in your case. You basically have a bulleye dead square on your ass as obvious as that tattoo that you have on your face. You crossed the boss and now its time to pay the piper.
You will get suspended once you compete at the NOC but you may as well call it a lifetime banishment this time and you know I'm right about that. Your career unfortunately will die at the NOC and its a shame because you are a great bodybuilder. At least you'll have more time for your race cars
Every show i dropped out of i gave notice. How many have i dropped out off? 2 - one i signed - the other i didn't. The last Olympia Robin Chang was given over a months notice and he never got back to me. The giving the finger was at the Photographer request taken the year before the article! They just chose to run it with the story.
As for the Article i guess it was true that's why i had so many pros coming up to me saying thank you for telling the truth about it telling it like it is.. My mouth sorry for speaking my mind to bad the others don't Oh that's right they do just not in public or to the people who matter.
Ben Weider - i made a joke about he must be smoking crack and get in trouble. But yet didn't Ronie say the same and still does about Jay? What does that say in the rules about bad talking about competitiors? No nothing is forgotten just like the athletes don't forget the shit that has been done to us.
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hang in there, Lee
us fans still support you
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This whole discussion shows how pathetic the IFBB is and how scared most bodybuilders are. The IFBB Pro division is a business. I remember way back in 1970 that Ray Beck had to pay significant money to the IFBB to hold the Mr Canada contest in Vancouver. I recall that Paul Graham had to pay $20,000 to the IFBB to hold the Mr Olympia in Sydney in 1980. So promoters pay the expenses and fees and end up making little or nothing for all that trouble. The IFBB always makes something in the fees they charge.
The IFBB has a life president in Ben Weider. They appoint so-called vice-presidents like Paul Graham who serve as long as Ben wants them to serve. There are no elections for vice-presidents. People have tried for years to get rid of Paul Graham in Australia but he merely changes the name of the organization and continues as usual. It is so bad many have dropped out of going to his shows. The bodybuilders kiss ass as they always have done. Guys like Lee Priest are real men but are few and far between. Most go along with what Ben and the IFBB say and do. Those who disobey or speak out get punished and soon find they cannot win or are not featured in the magazines. It is all a game and Ben runs the show with his assistants and everyone does what they are told.
The IFFB judging rules suck and should have no currency. The NABBA rules for judging are clearly superior. I had better rules of an organization we ran after the debacle of the 80 Olympia. We gave up because bodybuilders would go with the IFBB. A pity but they get what they deserve. It seems to me the IFBB treats the bodybuilders as if they are dopes.
The rules re competing in other contests is there to control the bodybuilders. The IFBB is a business not a democratic organization. Bodybuilding is closer to boxing than any other sport. Ben Weider was misguided when he made the rules and anyone following Ben is misguided, too. I am sick of the state of bodybuilding and want little to do with it. Wayne hasn't corrected the mistakes made by the IFBB. The whole system needs to be redone and we need the best brains to do this. We don't need knuckleheads and yes men running the sport.
I am not pleased with the judging process from the top to the bottom. Rules, criteria, judges, selection, contests, etc. Not good enough. Year and year there are problems and controversy. That really spoils the whole sport and nothing is being done about it. At least a rival organization might help improve the sport but we will see how ruthless the IFBB is and there is a sad history involving those who did the WWF Vince McMahon deal. Those guys got blackballed and couldn't compete in IFBB shows. We all know how they screwed Sergio Oliva and Bev Francis so that neither could win the Olympia.
I agree that Chick is trying to do a tough job but from where I am he is a company man. The Pro bodybuilders are gutless and always have been. Except a few guys like Lee Priest. There you are.
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I try and get as much work for IFBB pros as I can...tv, movies, guest posings, appearances, etc....I do what I can...If I can get work for Vince, I certainly will...
And what exactly did you acomplish for athletes? Can you name atleast one athlete you actually "helped" with tv, movies, etc?
It seems lately you been more of an IFBB rep rather than athletes rep. If you were looking out for athletes, you would support the idea of athletes making as much money as they can if it means competing in PDI, so be it. Athletes rep, not IFBB. From my understaning you should help Lee not to be suspended as you are supposed to be on his side, but all you do is state that he will be suspended.
Shawn Ray was much better rep than you. shawn was doing nothing, while you are doing something and that is you are causing more damage than anything. why dont you retire? Oh I forgot what else would be doing?
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And what exactly did you acomplish for athletes? Can you name atleast one athlete you actually "helped" with tv, movies, etc?
It seems lately you been more of an IFBB rep rather than athletes rep.
If you were looking out for athletes, you would support the idea of athletes making as much money as they can if it means competing in PDI, so be it. Athletes rep, not IFBB. From my understaning you should help Lee not to be suspended as you are supposed to be on his side, but all you do is state that he will be suspended.
Shawn Ray was much better rep than you. shawn was doing nothing, while you are doing something and that is you are causing more damage than anything. why dont you retire? Oh I forgot what else would be doing?
Why do you comment on things you have no clue about?
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Shawn Ray was much better rep than you. shawn was doing nothing, while you are doing something and that is you are causing more damage than anything. why dont you retire? Oh I forgot what else would be doing?
LOL!!! Shawn named an award after himself . . .
That's actually all he did
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LOL!!! Shawn named an award after himself . . .
That's actually all he did
what award was that?
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Bob works hard for the athletes whether they appreciate it or not. He's also more than jsut a pretty face
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Agree Vince you sound like a smart person and have been around for years,so I guess you would know that arnold never cashed that 1980 Olympia cheque from paul graham so the fix was in if Mr Graham wasn't making money he would not be there no dif to Mr Ben and Joe and Co.Do you think 5th place for Branch is worth more than $1000??? I think Lee got $5000 for 2nd and it was $10000 for 1st now how much did the promoter make after IFBB costs???I think alot more than Branch Lee and RR the winner got.What about chick just saying there is no judging of the posing round what a Joke they the Pros Vote to keep something in that doesn't even get used.LOL.What a poor state IFBB and Pros are in.IMO.
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what award was that?
The Shawn Ray Best Poser Award
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The Shawn Ray Best Poser Award
yeah... in who elses name would he give away $10,000 that HE raised?
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yeah... in who elses name would he give away $10,000 that HE raised?
doesn't negate the fact that you're by far a better athletes rep.
There's nothing wrong with Shawn the bodybuilder or Shawn the person. I'm just saying not much got done until you were voted in
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Wow, a lot of smoke blowing up a lot of asses on this string.
First, Vince. He's shot himself in the foot more than once, including denouncing his loss of the Masters O in 2002 as a racist conspiracy (accusing people who voted him a winner in the show 5 times in a row). I was at the Masters O & from what I saw, Don Youngblood won the show fair & square. Vince made a great comeback this year, though, & since he can go the the O, why not do it? He won't crack the top 6, but he might get into the top 10. It's a prestige thing, not a money thing. Since when did competing lead to money awards for most pros?
Next, Chick. No one paid more dues than he did, hanging in as a top amateur far longer than anyone else ever did. He's doing an impossible job, & gets a lot of shit for it. At least he's willing to communicate with the yahoos who don't know shit about what they're talking about.
Next, Lee. He says what he thinks, no matter what it is. Sometimes it's smart, sometimes it's not. But he won't cut his conscience to fit this year's fashions. You gotta give it to him. If he says Emperor Weider isn't wearing any clothes, then sure there are going to be repercussions. But it's his choice. As for being banned from the IFBB, he isn't exactly outside the whale. More like the goldfish. The IFBB needs him more than he needs it. He's one of the two white guys who can get on a cover & sell mags (Branch is the other one).
Next, Ben & Joe. They did their homework, outlasted (& outlived) their competition, & mythologized themselves in their own mags, creating an empire by destroying their competition. They haven't had any since the early 1980s, & now that DeMilia is doing to them what they did to the AAU (with DeMilia's help), they're finally going to have to own up to treating their pros like difficult children. The Weider dynasty is nearly over anyway. They can't last much longer, & their son isn't following in their footsteps.
There is enough bad blood to go around in bodybuilding. Any enterprise in which individuals agree to be judged by appearance is going to produce bad blood, because the judging is subjective & often political (& so corrupt). But that is what bodybuilding is, & the people involved know it. If they don't want to be part of it, no one is forcing them to. Every once in a while, there's some good blood in bodybuilding as well.
No one has a crystal ball on the PDI. Let's see how it plays out. Competition between federations can lead to more opportunities. Since the men haven't had nearly the opportunities for pro cards that the women have had recently, more pro opportunities for men can't hurt. & at least some of the mags (other than M&F & FLEX) will play them up.
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not from the IFBB's position....it's a clear violation of the rules.
Isn't this 'rule' going to be done away with during the IFBB's big pow-wow in September?
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Isn't this 'rule' going to be done away with during the IFBB's big pow-wow in September?
not to my knowledge...
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First - lets here it directly from Vince Taylor on what he is doing. Did he or did he not sign a contract with the PDI, and like Lee, can he agree to do the Olympia too. Technically, we won't know until the night of the NOC?
Second, Chick does a fine job as athletes rep. Problem is that the athletes don't care about helping Chick get some things done. It is that simple. Chick worked very hard getting things ready for a meeting at the Arnold, and something like 8 athletes came. That is it. Too bad. So until the athletes want something and contact Bob, complains about him are not justified.
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Paul admitted living with Arnold, and Ken Moran from New Zealand way back in the fall of 1968. They shared a house in LA and perhaps others shared that house, too. Maybe Bob Bruce was there. Well, Paul was arrested in Honolulu in Jan 1969 for exporting stolen cars to Australia. He spent a couple of years in jail and came out a bigger and wiser guy. Ken Moran ended up in Vancouver, BC and I made friends with him. He told us he had to get out of the US quick because he had an accident and had to leave. How he managed to be driving a brand new red Boss Mustang I do not know. I believe he took that vehicle back to New Zealand. I am not saying those vehicles were stolen or if the others living in the house were involved. I do know that somehow Paul was able to attend Arnold's wedding in the USA and that is difficult to do if you have a criminal record there. He also holds down the job of IFFB vice-president in Australia. I also wondered if Arnold 'owed' Paul and never spent his winner's cheque. I sold 200 tickets for Paul for the 80 Olympia but I believe he lost money on the contest. There were plenty of empty seats but it turned out to be quite the event. Paul has done quite well since out of promoting bodybuilding contests and other businesses. He still has a gym. Good for him if he overcame his past and did well for himself. Those of us who didn't take short cuts had to do it the hard way and perhaps never did as well as some of those guys. I did okay for myself.
My ex said she wouldn't have married me if she knew what she knows now. She was a nurse and we couldn't get a visa to go to California. Had she had the right education we might have gone and I might be the gov of California! At the very least I would have owned Golds Gym! Joe offered his gym to me when I was there on my honeymoon in June 1969. The price was $50,000! He turned down a suggesting that he finance me. He told Arnold to invest in real estate and said that one could expect to make only $30,000/year out of a gym. He was right about gyms and gave Arnold some good advice. Who would have thought Joe's name would become famous? Or that Arnold would achieve what he did?
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Vince:
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Reinhold Niebuhr
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maybe the ifbb has paid vince enough money to cover his fines from the PDI and still have enough to make it worth his while posing?
money talks don't it?
has Wayne offered enough?...sure a contract is binding, but you can break them easily if you have the dough.
my maths..
pdi contract =, say $100k.
ifbb offer to vince = , say $220k.
vince breaks pdi contract and pays fine to wayne...leaves him with $20k more than with wayne.
i bet nowhere in his contract does it say that he has to pay for advertising and marketing costs. but it will say that he must compete for his $100k.
its all in the content.
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Looks like Vince simply chose who can pay him the most money short-term. No one's fault but his, whatever comes of it.
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damn y the hell did wayne part ways with IFBB...i am sure PDI is going to end like vince mchmans WBF..PDI cannot compete with IFBB in terms of supriority and status...and as far as taylor he has made wise decison by staying with the IFBB...IFBB is the no. 1 bodybuilding federation in the world and y the hell PDI is even existing when already there is a federation wich has been around for more than 30yrs..
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Every show i dropped out of i gave notice. How many have i dropped out off? 2 - one i signed - the other i didn't. The last Olympia Robin Chang was given over a months notice and he never got back to me. The giving the finger was at the Photographer request taken the year before the article! They just chose to run it with the story.
As for the Article i guess it was true that's why i had so many pros coming up to me saying thank you for telling the truth about it telling it like it is.. My mouth sorry for speaking my mind to bad the others don't Oh that's right they do just not in public or to the people who matter.
Ben Weider - i made a joke about he must be smoking crack and get in trouble. But yet didn't Ronie say the same and still does about Jay? What does that say in the rules about bad talking about competitiors? No nothing is forgotten just like the athletes don't forget the shit that has been done to us.
Jay Cutler is not the Chairman of the IFBB. Very big difference
Honestly, I did applaud you for speaking your mind but you have to remember that sometimes "keeping it real" will get you in hot water. That's life Lee, its not what you say, its who you say it to and who you're talking about and your comment was directed at Ben Weider.
You'll have to deal unfortunately with that bullseye the rest of your career
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who won the golf event?
Stupid question.
We all know that whatever the official results, Ron was the REAL victor.
300+ yard drives straight down the fairway, laser precision like short game...
Who's gonna be able to deal with that?
YIP
Zack
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Bad move by Vince taylor, the judges in Australia were really pushing for Benfatto and Taylor, the judging over there at that show was not consistent with continental US judging if that show was in the states, Branch would have won and Taylor and Benfatto would have been a few places lower, mark my words the judging at the olympia wont suit him or his classical look, he wont make the top 10.
The PDI has sort of shot itself in the foot though a lot of the guys really arent good enough to be pros, but if they can survive and put a few more shows on im sure a lot of second and third tier pros will follow, for example Lee will win in september earning more money as a pro than say 95% of ifbb pros this year, id say there will be plenty of ifbb pros jumping ship as soon as they establish them selves and if they can no one is saying anything as they dont want to leave until the federation gets some creditibility.
One thing though Chic you seem to be so happy to give it to Wayne about Taylors contract, lets see if hes for the athletes and all that garbage, he should sue Taylor, his u turn if it is and there is a signed contract he has definatly hurt the contest and effected the creditabillity of the federation, hes obligated to protect the other athletes and their chance at earning a livelyhood by being with the PDI and i believe he should sue him to protect the other athletes, try to be a little impartial, the PDI will help all existing iFBB pros by creating choice in the market place, there is now more demand which will more likely cause an increase in prize money contracts etc, like it did in the WBF disaster,
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It would be a lethal blow to DeMilia if Lee Priest were offered some guest posing contracts through the IFBB.
Also, if the PDI loses Galanti back to NPC, that could be the final blow to it all. Who wants to pay $100 to see TJ Schoenborn beat a bunch of guys who have problems placing in NPC contests?
If Demilia would've had the money of McMahon, being able to sign athletes to salaries, or have that money for prize in the competitions, it would be a different ball game.
YIP
Zack
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Vince got a sweet guest posing contract.
Lee got a sweet guest posing contract (The NOC).
The only difference is that Lee will be getting a trophy along with his cheque for his guest posing.
They both should be able to compete in the Olympia.
If the IFBB suspends Lee for guestposing at the NOC, then they should suspend Kamali for guestposing in his kitchen.
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hehehe I know exactly what is happening with Vince. But, I won't tell. And when it happens, mark this post cause you will see why I won't say anything. 240 screen print this post and see what happens after the NOC. Oh and by the way this isn't something I made up it comes from the horse's mouth.
HMM Vince Taylor, top 3 at the "O"??
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Why do you comment on things you have no clue about?
Actually I do. In fact I can start with your "supplements" dealing back in NY. Would you want me to go in to details.
Chic, just like Shawn cares only about Chic.
Ron and you both say how much you done for athletes. Lets here it. What have you done? Where is medical insurence? Why cant athletes compete in PDI or wherever they can make money? Who did you help with TV, movies? I mean you couldnt even help yourself in that department. What have you done in your position except get a title that you dont deserve by being a comapny man?
Since I dont know, why dont you tell us all about your great accomplishments?
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Except for Lee, are you guys really impressed with the lineup of the NOC this year?
Just a question.
If the PDI is going to work, here's how. It's going to take 2-3 years. The bodybuilders in the IFBB will need to see PDI bodybuilders getting paid, getting treated with respect and that the PDI itself has some sort of future. Once they do, the exodus from the IFBB will be enormous. Right now there is a start up problem for the PDI: the best bodybuilders are associated with the IFBB, but those guys want to be careful because if they jump ship and the PDI cruise line sinks, they're screwed.
I said this from day one... if ANYONE can pull this off, it is Wayne DeMelia.
As far as losing Vince... Vince was an awesome bodybuilder in his day and still is, but he's not what he was. PDI will introduce and cultivate new talent.
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Sucks for PDI, Vince Taylor was the crown jewel of the org.
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Vince CHOSE to take the gig...the promoters don't force anyone to guest pose. He also guest posed at the Jr. Nationals last month...
the point is moot.
Here we go again. The word moot is a contranym, which means it can denote that the issue is both up for debate as well as being academic- ie. foregone.
/Stop thinking you are smarter than your audience. It is condescending and continues to gain you the emnity of this board's members. >:(
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If I sign a contract with Jessica Simpson to do a concert, and I advertise and sell tickets, then she changes her mind, guess what - she owes me damages.
Of all the music acts you could have chosen for this analogy!
Perhaps you were daydreaming of how she might pay off such a debt? ...
(http://www.whoomp.com/media/data/513/jessica_simpson-boots_03.jpg)
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If the PDI is going to work, here's how. It's going to take 2-3 years. The bodybuilders in the IFBB will need to see PDI bodybuilders getting paid, getting treated with respect and that the PDI itself has some sort of future. Once they do, the exodus from the IFBB will be enormous. Right now there is a start up problem for the PDI: the best bodybuilders are associated with the IFBB, but those guys want to be careful because if they jump ship and the PDI cruise line sinks, they're screwed.
I said this from day one... if ANYONE can pull this off, it is Wayne DeMelia.
As far as losing Vince... Vince was an awesome bodybuilder in his day and still is, but he's not what he was. PDI will introduce and cultivate new talent.
Could not have been said any better. It's like a Dot-Com....it may fail but if it succeeds, the first employees/bodybuilders will be tremendously rewarded and see new heights.....
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Of all the music acts you could have chosen for this analogy!
Perhaps you were daydreaming of how she might pay off such a debt? ...
(http://www.whoomp.com/media/data/513/jessica_simpson-boots_03.jpg)
That thing have a hemi?
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There's a difference between McMahon & DeMilia. DeMilia knows bodybuilding is not wrestling, he knows how to promote a show, he knows not to try to issue a monthly mag & Saturday morning kids' show around the concept, he knows the competitors, he knows the flaws in the IFBB, he knows he can't just buy X number of competitors & drop them like hot potatoes (as McMahon did), etc. He's working to professionalize a new group of competitors, like the IFBB is doing with the figure women right now. Except for Gary Udit, there is nothing new being done for the men in the NPC & IFBB. Moreover, the number of men who have truly been able to support themselves on contest winnings can probably be counted on one hand with fingers to spare.
We need alternatives. I hope the PDI takes off & flies.
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Thank you Vince Taylor. Because of your indecision/flip floping, you have made the PDI and NOC the talk of the boards ;)
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There's a difference between McMahon & DeMilia. DeMilia knows bodybuilding is not wrestling, he knows how to promote a show, he knows not to try to issue a monthly mag & Saturday morning kids' show around the concept, he knows the competitors, he knows the flaws in the IFBB, he knows he can't just buy X number of competitors & drop them like hot potatoes (as McMahon did), etc. He's working to professionalize a new group of competitors, like the IFBB is doing with the figure women right now. Except for Gary Udit, there is nothing new being done for the men in the NPC & IFBB. Moreover, the number of men who have truly been able to support themselves on contest winnings can probably be counted on one hand with fingers to spare.
We need alternatives. I hope the PDI takes off & flies.
Good point, although that Gary Udit is the same man who, according to rumors, hired Vince Taylor away from PDI.
Professionalizing a new generation of athlete - that is a very good point. He does have a good looking group of athletes with much more mainstream appeal than your standard IFBB lineup.
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Good point, although that Gary Udit is the same man who, according to rumors, hired Vince Taylor away from PDI.
Professionalizing a new generation of athlete - that is a very good point. He does have a good looking group of athletes with much more mainstream appeal than your standard IFBB lineup.
I find it interesting that Vince Taylor is guest posing on the same night as NOC. Whene was the last time Vince was hired to guest pose? How many shows was he invited to guest pose after hi great showing at Austraian Gran Prix? But somehow Gary Udit, the promoter and IFBB official invites Vince to guest pose on the same night as NOC.
they cant stop Lee so they went after the next big name. I am saying they because it's clear that it's not Udit who is behind it but IFBB.
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There is so much conflict of interest going on, it's almost amusing. To further the irony, you can hear the complete story of Vince's decision exclusively on a radio webcast run by the IFBB Athlete's Rep. AWESOME!
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Thank you Vince Taylor. Because of your indecision/flip floping, you have made the PDI and NOC the talk of the boards ;)
Good point. Even though I haven't read/heard anything directly from Vince, this rumor *did* at least get people talking about bodybuilding shows again.
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Good point, although that Gary Udit is the same man who, according to rumors, hired Vince Taylor away from PDI.
Giving someone a better offer is not the same as playing dirty pool.
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Giving someone a better offer is not the same as playing dirty pool.
True. But I question Gary's motives for choosing Vince as the pro for the weekend. Two weeks before the O, no IFBB show, and they choose to overpay Vince?
I think the dead giveaway was Bob Chic passing the buck before anyone even handed it to him. "It wasn't the IFBB - blame the promoter" when Bob isn't even an IFBB spokesman lol...
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Giving someone a better offer is not the same as playing dirty pool.
It wouln't be hard to show that the IFBB is essentally a monopoly, and the NPC is a branch of that monopoly. I would think that enticing Vince away to pose the same night with a better offer, even though the IFBB knew it would mean Vince would break his contract to do so (and ESPECIALLY if the IFBB offered to pay Vince's fine for him) could put the IFBB in hot water with anti-trust laws or at least give Wayne a strong case to sue the IFBB and not just Vince.
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Actually I do. In fact I can start with your "supplements" dealing back in NY. Would you want me to go in to details.
Chic, just like Shawn cares only about Chic.
Ron and you both say how much you done for athletes. Lets here it. What have you done? Where is medical insurence? Why cant athletes compete in PDI or wherever they can make money? Who did you help with TV, movies? I mean you couldnt even help yourself in that department. What have you done in your position except get a title that you dont deserve by being a comapny man?
Since I dont know, why dont you tell us all about your great accomplishments?
Please, by all means...tell all you can...I have nothing to hide.
Where is the medical insurance? Right where it should be...available and set up for any and all IFBB pro's who wish to get it. Many have already, many more will take advantage if they are smart.
As for getting work for athletes...I've helped plenty..Chris Cook, Chris Cormier, QT, Will Harris, Mike Ergas, Lauren Powers, Flex Lewis, Idrise Ward El, Nasser, etc , etc, too many to list...anything from guest posings to TV shows. I get a lot of calls from being in the business, many for Bbers that fit someone else's description, it's easy, it's called picking up the phone and helping your friends...
Was it only "Chic caring about Chic" when I tried forming a union for the athletes a few years ago? How about the non-paying position of Athletes rep? Creating the FLEXY Awards and $1,000 to each athlete that was awarded..... How about the THOUSANDS of dollars Shawn has raised for athletes...$10,000 best posing awards, $25,000 to the CHOC Hospital 2 years running...All-star seminars where each athlete was paid $1,000 to appear, etc, etc...need more?
Here's the minutes from the last IFBB meeting...athletes are now qualified for the Olympia from the 4th place bump (Mustafa)....and the women have been put back on the Olympia main stage from my efforts...
Like I said....STFU about things you don't know about..you've just been made a fool of.
Pursuant to Article 3.7 of the IFBB Professional Rules (2005 Edition), the IFBB Professional Division, held their annual meeting at the Orleans Hotel, Mardi Gras Room, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA, on Wednesday, October 12, 2005. The following officials were present:
Mr. Jim Manion Chairman of the IFBB Professional Division.
Mr. Jim Rockell Professional Division Management Team, Men’s Representative
Mr. Rob Wilkins Professional Division Management Team, Athlete Liaison (The Americas)
Mr. Pawel Filleburn Professional Division Management Team, Athlete Liaison (Europe)
Mr. Peter McGough Professional Division Management Team, Media Representative
Mr. Steve Weinberger Professional Division Management Team, Promoter Representative
Ms. Betty Pariso Professional Division Management Team, Women’s Bodybuilding Rep
Ms. Adela Garcia Professional Division Management Team, Fitness Athlete Rep
Mr. Bob Cicherillo Professional Division Management Team, Male Athlete Rep
Ms. Jenny Lynn Professional Division Management Team, Figure Athlete Rep
*Mr. Asher Frig Professional Division Judge
*Mr. Matt Crane Professional Division Judge
*Mr. Jon Lindsay Professional Division Promoter
*Mr. Steve O’Brian Professional Division Judge/Promoter
*Mr. Gary Udit Professional Division Judge/Promoter
*Mr. John Tuman Professional Division Judge/Promoter
*Mr. Joe Palumbo Professional Division Expeditor
*Mr. Matt Bristol Professional Division Expeditor
*Mr. Bill Tierney Professional Division Judge
*Ms. Wanda Tierney Professional Division Judge
*Mrs. Amy Wilkins Professional Division Expeditor/recorder of minutes
*Observer, no vote
I. CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Manion welcomed and called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m.
II. AGENDA ITEMS
Women’s Bodybuilding No Proposals Betty Pariso
Fitness No Proposals Adela Garcia
Figure No Proposals Jenny Lynn
Men’s Bodybuilding Eight Proposals Bob Cicherillo
The following items were proposed and voted upon by members of the IFBB Professional Division Management Team:
A. For all IFBB Pro competitions, a bodybuilder from Italy proposed having two weight classes; under 200 pounds and over 200 pounds.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was denied.
B. Upon the promoters approval, request registered IFBB Pro’s receive two free tickets to all IFBB sanctioned shows upon presentation of current IFBB Pro card.
In regards to this proposal, the following items were discussed:
- IFBB Pro’s must contact the promoter and request the tickets at least two weeks
prior to the competition date.
- Must act accordingly
- The tickets will be designated by the promoter.
- IFBB Pro’s may be asked to participate and present trophy during competition.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
C. Recommend the IFBB guarantee’s purses for IFBB sanctioned competitions. Mr. Manion informed group that from this point forward, if a promoter did not pay the purse, he (Mr. Manion) would take on this expense and make all payments.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
D. Recommend all official information related to IFBB competitions be added and updated accordingly on the official site of the IFBB, www.ifbb.com/Pro Division. Mr. Tony Blinn is the webmaster for the site and all information related to competitions will be sent to him in a timely manner so he can post it.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
E. Recommend judges individual scores to be made public after completion of contest.
- An IFBB judge will e-mail or fax scores to Tony Blinn to be posted on website.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
F. Recommend current IFBB scoring format be replaced by NPC system of scoring and/or amended, specifically the posing round.
-Eliminate posing round except for entertainment value.
-All registered male and female bodybuilding athletes must vote. Registered athletes will be contacted by their respective athlete rep. Please send vote responses to respective reps by 15 Dec 05.
-Optional for the promoter to provide prize money or a trophy.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted however, awaiting voting results from registered athletes (Item Open).
G. Recommend a mandatory number of athletes (4 – 6) be provided free airfare/hotel costs by the promoter.
- This item is left to the discretion of each promoter.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was denied.
H. Recommend Olympia qualifying placing to extend to next highest placing athletes in the event of athletes already being qualified in the top three.
- If top three are already qualified for the Olympia, then the fourth place will winner will qualify for the Olympia.
- If the top four have already qualified for the Olympia, no additional qualifications will be permitted.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
I. Recommend purse of IFBB sanctioned shows to have a mandatory increase of 10% of total purse, every third year of shows existence (applicable to shows with total purse under 50K). Shows with 50K + purse to increase 5% every third year.
- Promoters will try to increase prize money when possible however, they strongly disagree with being mandated to increase the prize money.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was denied.
III. CLOSING COMMENTS:
- In regards to registered IFBB athletes competing and/or providing seminars to other organizations, the following rule from the IFBB Professional Rules (2005 Edition), will be enforced:
14.9 Non-sanctioned Events:
Any IFBB professional athlete, judge or official who participates at a competition or event not approved or sanctioned by the IFBB may be fined, suspended or expelled. Participation shall include, but shall not be limited to, competing, guest posing, giving a seminar, lecture or similar presentation, judging, officiating and/or taking part in a non-IFBB sanctioned competition or event in any other way, shape, or form.
- IFBB registered athletes interested in serving as athlete reps for 2006 should contact Mr. Manion by 1 December 2005 at:
IFBB Professional Division
P.O. Box 3224
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15230
USA
Toll Free: 1-866-304-4322
Tel: (412) 276-5027
Fax: (412) 281-0470
E-mail: ifbbprodivision@aol.com
After reviewing the list on candidates, the IFBB Pro Division Office will send out a ballot (via e-mail) for registered athletes to select their choice to serve as the athlete rep. The voting period is 9 – 21 Dec 05. After all the ballots have been counted, those elected athlete reps will be notified by Mr. Manion during the last week of December ’05 and begin their duties on 1 Jan 06.
ADJOURNMENT
After reviewing and voting on all the agenda items, the IFBB Professional Division, meeting was adjourned at 5:00 p.m.
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True. But I question Gary's motives for choosing Vince as the pro for the weekend. Two weeks before the O, no IFBB show, and they choose to overpay Vince?
I think the dead giveaway was Bob Chic passing the buck before anyone even handed it to him. "It wasn't the IFBB - blame the promoter" when Bob isn't even an IFBB spokesman lol...
Think a step further.
Consider the publicity Udit will get for his show due to having Vince Taylor guest posing the same very night as he was supposed to stand on stage at the NOC.
Great publicity stunt from Udit, whether or not he made it to fcuk with DeMilia or not is another question.
But his show will definitely feed off the publicity from all the PDI/IFBB controversy, and he was able to make his show very interesting.
YIP
Zack
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True. But I question Gary's motives for choosing Vince as the pro for the weekend. Two weeks before the O, no IFBB show, and they choose to overpay Vince?
I think the dead giveaway was Bob Chic passing the buck before anyone even handed it to him. "It wasn't the IFBB - blame the promoter" when Bob isn't even an IFBB spokesman lol...
Vince isn't getting overpaid, he's getting exactly what anyone else is getting with his name recognition and star appeal...no more no less....and no one is "blaming" the promoter...if you want to blame someone, blame Vince for taking the job.
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Vince isn't getting overpaid, he's getting exactly what anyone else is getting with his name recognition and star appeal...no more no less....and no one is "blaming" the promoter...if you want to blame someone, blame Vince for taking the job.
LOL...
Bob, you've made it clear you're the athletes rep. If there was an agreement between the IFBB and Udit, YOU wouldn't know about it. You don't work for either of them.
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The IFBB doesn't pay athletes to guest pose...promoters do.
Vince has the ability to compete in the Olympia, just like everyone else that has qualified...nothing more, nothing less....
It was VINCE'S decision to take a pass on the PDI...we'll have more info on tomorrows "Pro BB Weekly" broadcast, of course.
I wonder if Wayne will attempt to fine Vince, or if he's REALLY all for the athletes...? Could be like old times...
Lets see how many other conspiracy theories you fools can can up with before tomorrow....lolol.
might be late BUT, If Lee competes at the NOC will he be fined or banned from the olympia? No doublespeak please, IFBB rep.......
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LOL...
Bob, you've made it clear you're the athletes rep. If there was an agreement between the IFBB and Udit, YOU wouldn't know about it. You don't work for either of them.
I know the whole story...trust me. It's not that exciting.
Vince is doing whats right for Vince...plain and simple.
Question is, why isn't Demilia setting up guest posings for these guys...getting them out in the public? With all the promoters that will be putting on shows for the PDI (some of them *allegedly* IFBB promoters) where are all the paying jobs for these guys?
Qualifiers have been canceled
PDI radio has yet to see the light of day
zero guest posings
health ins. was a fraud
doesn't look good, bud....
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That thing have a hemi?
the car or the girl?
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I know the whole story...trust me. It's not that exciting.
Vince is doing whats right for Vince...plain and simple.
Question is, why isn't Demilia setting up guest posings for these guys...getting them out in the public? With all the promoters that will be putting on shows for the PDI (some of them *allegedly* IFBB promoters) where are all the paying jobs for these guys?
Qualifiers have been canceled
PDI radio has yet to see the light of day
zero guest posings
health ins. was a fraud
doesn't look good, bud....
Actually "Bud" what doesn't look good is the desperate measures the IFBB is taking to undermind the PDI. Doesn't the IFBB understand that by trying to sabotage the PDI, they are making the "peanut gallery" want the PDI to succed even more? The IFBB survives because the "Peanut Gallery" spends it's hard earned money on IFBB shows. Piss us off and we will be more than glad to take our bussiness else where.
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I'm sorry...what "desperate measures" have the IFBB put into action?
VINCE decided to keep his business in the IFBB...he wasn't coerced, he wasn't strong armed (no pun intended), he wasn't forced in any way. All he has is what every other IFBB athlete has...an OPPORTUNITY to compete for prize money and pick up some appearances to make a living.
The IFBB has offered Vince nothing...Gary Udit asked Vince if he would be interested in guest posing at the N. American...Vince could have certainly refused as it was on the same night as the NOC...he didn't.
Vince has more opportunities in the IFBB plain and simple, the PDI has yet to see the light of day.
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Why cant athletes compete in PDI or wherever they can make money
We have went over this. The same reason why any other professional in any other sport cannot compete for any organization. Whether it is football, soccer, baseball, bowling, etc. The athletes can choose where he wants to compete.
Whene was the last time Vince was hired to guest pose?
Vince was hired to guest post last month at the Jr. Nationals.
Consider the publicity Udit will get for his show due to having Vince Taylor guest posing the same very night as he was supposed to stand on stage at the NOC.
True, Vince Taylor is in the news whether he likes it or not, gives him much more publicity, and perhaps a contract with a supplement company soon.
Bob, you've made it clear you're the athletes rep. If there was an agreement between the IFBB and Udit, YOU wouldn't know about it. You don't work for either of them.
Bob is the IFBB Athletes Rep. Can you understand that already! He is not the PDI Athletes rep, not the NABBA athletes rep, not the Olympics athletes rep. He is the IFBB Athletes rep. Making sure that the athletes that are in the IFBB maximizes their concerns, and he helps them whenever possible. The athletes themselves need to call Bob to get that done.
On a side note, if Vince Taylor did have a contract with the PDI, then that is a problem. But the question is - did he or did he not sign, and is it an iron clad contract, and does the PDI care?
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I'm sorry...what "desperate measures" have the IFBB put into action?
VINCE decided to keep his business in the IFBB...he wasn't coerced, he wasn't strong armed (no pun intended), he wasn't forced in any way. All he has is what every other IFBB athlete has...an OPPORTUNITY to compete for prize money and pick up some appearances to make a living.
The IFBB has offered Vince nothing...Gary Udit asked Vince if he would be interested in guest posing at the N. American...Vince could have certainly refused as it was on the same night as the NOC...he didn't.
Vince has more opportunities in the IFBB plain and simple, the PDI has yet to see the light of day.
How about giving the athletes an OPPRTUNITY to make a living by letting them compete in both IFBB and PDI. You are the athletes rep, right Mr. Chic?
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On a side note, if Vince Taylor did have a contract with the PDI, then that is a problem. But the question is - did he or did he not sign, and is it an iron clad contract, and does the PDI care?
I guess we'll all have to see what ramifications come out of this.
As an FYI Bodybuilding.com is where I learned of Vince signing a contract...
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/pr34.htm
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How about giving the athletes an OPPRTUNITY to make a living by letting them compete in both IFBB and PDI. You are the athletes rep, right Mr. Chic?
Why on Gods green earth, would the IFBB let their athletes compete in a RIVAL federation????
As Ron and I have REPEATEDLY pointed out...there would be no advantage to the IFBB...only to the rival federations. The athletes know this and are under no obligation to sign with the IFBB...they can chose to compete anywhere they wish. If they believe going elsewhere will give them better opportunities, then so be it.
Guys are having a tough enough time making ends meet in ONE federation....you think 2 watered down federations have a BETTER chance? There are guys in the IFBB that don't have contracts...you think all of a sudden there are DIFFERENT supplement companies that don't know these guys exist?
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I didn't make the rules ... they were put in place in the 1940's.
actually the early 1970s. in the 1950s the IFBB was just Joe and Ben, and they were complaining about the AAU's policy of limiting where athletes could compete. they were arguing that anyone should be able to compete anywhere.
But that changed as the IFBB became established. Sergio was the first to be banned by Ben for entering the 1971 NABBA Pro Universe.
Despite the attempts at revisionist history, the IFBB took 16 years to become successful. In 1948, under the IFBB banner, Ben and Joe held 2 contests. In 1949, they held 3. (Ben did promote the Mr Canada contests, but there is no evidence he used the IFBB name for those events until later). In 1950, they held 2. In 1951, zero. In 1952, one. Then nothing until 1959. Then it wasn't until 1964 that the amateur branch and pro branches of the IFBB became established, with an international congress and such.
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Bob, bottom line IMO, is that your role is cloudy at best.
You're too much politician and not enough working man's man.
You rub elbows with Manion, speak on behalf of the IFBB, attempt to justify selectively enforced rules, etc.
Regardless of how the PDI turns out, it's my opinion that a TRUE athletes rep would welcome new opportunities for athletes to earn money, even if they do bump heads with existing IFBB rules. Rules can be changed if one of the parties demands it.
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Why on Gods green earth, would the IFBB let their athletes compete in a RIVAL federation????
As Ron and I have REPEATEDLY pointed out...there would be no advantage to the IFBB...only to the rival federations.
I thought your role was to protect the athletes, why all the federation talk ?
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If athletes want to compete in any organization that should be able to. It's their decision. You know how much money it takes to get ready for a show and iff the athlete wants to compete in PDI he should be able to. It's called freedom. You are set because you cant compete with the big boys but IFBB is paying you enough to go on boards and be their voice. Basically they making you doing all their dirty work. If they suspend Lee, they will just send him a letter, but you are the one who is doing all the talking. So you not helping you fellow IFBB Pro but you helping IFBB.
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Bob, bottom line IMO, is that your role is cloudy at best.
You're too much politician and not enough working man's man.
You rub elbows with Manion, speak on behalf of the IFBB, attempt to justify selectively enforced rules, etc.
Regardless of how the PDI turns out, it's my opinion that a TRUE athletes rep would welcome new opportunities for athletes to earn money, even if they do bump heads with existing IFBB rules. Rules can be changed if one of the parties demands it.
1. No one cares about YOUR opinion
2. I'm the IFBB Athletes rep, and thus welcome and create all kinds of opportunities for IFBB athletes...not every athlete in evey federation.
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1. No one cares about YOUR opinion
2. I'm the IFBB Athletes rep, and thus welcome and create all kinds of opportunities for IFBB athletes...not every athlete in evey federation.
1. That's your opinion.
2. Correct. Lee Priest is an IFBB Athlete. The PDi is an opportunity for him to earn money on a weekend when the IFBB is not holding any shows. Why not "welcome" this "opportunity for an IFBB athlete" ?
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1. That's your opinion.
Well, that's your opinion!
???
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...because it's a clear infraction of the rules, and he will be suspended. I don't want to see Lee suspended...I want to see him on the Olympia stage with the bst in the world, where he stands to make $30K-75K...not $15K beating a bunch of guys that have no business standing on stage with him...
Glad your not his manager...
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1. No one cares about YOUR opinion
2. I'm the IFBB Athletes rep, and thus welcome and create all kinds of opportunities for IFBB athletes...not every athlete in evey federation.
The fact that you respond to his posts gives him more credibiity and demonstrates that you care about the things he says.....or either your as fvcking bored as I am.
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Does anyone else think 240's gone even farther off the deep end recently? He seems to be a little bit more desperate recently. Perhaps hitching himself to the PDI wasn't such a good thing. When it inevitably fails those that screamed the loudest that it was going to succeed are going to look the worst.
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The fact that you respond to his posts gives him more credibiity and demonstrates that you care about the things he says.....or either your as fvcking bored as I am.
Just wasting a few minutes before I go to the gym...
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...because it's a clear infraction of the rules, and he will be suspended. I don't want to see Lee suspended...I want to see him on the Olympia stage with the bst in the world, where he stands to make $30K-75K...not $15K beating a bunch of guys that have no business standing on stage with him...
Glad your not his manager...
Well, seeing as you had 4 people show up for your last athletes meeting, i can see what kind of faith the athletes have in you.
You say "instead", meaning that it's an either/or situation. What many here are saying is, why can't it be BOTH? Why can't you put in a petition to change the IFBB rules to allow athletes to compete on days when there are no IFBB shows?
Instead of arguing about the rule, Bob, why aren't you lobbying to change it?
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I was with Wayne yesterday.....he says thank you for all the free publicity
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**Why on Gods green earth, would the IFBB let their athletes compete in a RIVAL federation?**
Since when are bodybuilders athletes? The IFBB doesn't own those who compete. I strongly resent the control tactics that the IFBB use over those who want to compete in their contests. In my opinion bodybuilders should be able to compete in any contests as long as they join up and pay the required fees. All this contract stuff is pathetic. No wonder contests seem to be controversial every year. I have seen the way bodybuilders have been manipulated over the years. No wonder most end up rather meek and disillusioned. The IFBB has never respected bodybuilders as people nor treated them right. That IFBB meeting you posted is illuminating. I am hardly impressed. Where are the bodybuilders in the executive positions? The whole organization seems like a club. You belong and obey or get the boot.
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I was with Wayne yesterday.....he says thank you for all the free publicity
Can you ask him when his shining galleon of a new federation will have a for-pay e-mail address?
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I was with Wayne yesterday.....he says thank you for all the free publicity
Not all publicity is good, Vinny...
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Well, seeing as you had 4 people show up for your last athletes meeting, i can see what kind of faith the athletes have in you.
You say "instead", meaning that it's an either/or situation. What many here are saying is, why can't it be BOTH? Why can't you put in a petition to change the IFBB rules to allow athletes to compete on days when there are no IFBB shows?
Instead of arguing about the rule, Bob, why aren't you lobbying to change it?
Because no athlete other than Lee has expressed an interest in changing it...ZERO.
If the IFBB athletes vote to try and change the ruling,I'll be more than happy to submit it.
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Because no athlete other than Lee has expressed an interest in changing it...ZERO.
If the IFBB athletes vote to try and change the ruling,I'll be more than happy to submit it.
this is progress!
ok, it's a safe assumption that most IFBB guys would at least be somewhat open-minded to more chances to earn money.
Also, let's assume that some IFBB guys are nervous about voting on such a measure for fear of being blackballed by the IFBB.
Bob, since these are both reasonable assumptions that can be reached thru rational examination of the situation - would you be willing to submit such a request to the IFBB?
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I see your point on this Bob. Why do a contest and win the 15K hitting my peak and show up at the Olympia after losing that condition peak and miss out on the $30K-75K that could be earned? I do however think the NOC is good for the athletes that get no reward at the Olympia as a second option if the rules permitted it.
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240 - No offense bro but Bob has a better idea of what the athletes want then you do.
The thing that many IFBB pros would like to see changed is the ability to work shows/expos/seminars outside of NPC/IFBB sanctioned events. This makes sense to do as they would make more money and it helps further the NPC & IFBB to others. Many competitors come over to the NPC/IFBB to gain more exposure and get publicity not the other way around. There are countless female competitors who leave Ms. Fitness/Fitness America to join the NPC/IFBB for that very reason.
Aside from Lee you'll be hard pressed to get many current IFBB pros to say they want to compete in two organizations.
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240 - No offense bro but Bob has a better idea of what the athletes want then you do.
The thing that many IFBB pros would like to see changed is the ability to work shows/expos/seminars outside of NPC/IFBB sanctioned events. This makes sense to do as they would make more money and it helps further the NPC & IFBB to others. Many competitors come over to the NPC/IFBB to gain more exposure and get publicity not the other way around. There are countless female competitors who leave Ms. Fitness/Fitness America to join the NPC/IFBB for that very reason.
Aside from Lee you'll be hard pressed to get many current IFBB pros to say they want to compete in two organizations.
None of them will SAY it. But if a memo went out, announcing it was A-OK for IFBB guys to do the NOC and pick up some change, I betcha quite a few would swoop in for some prize money and a chance to shine in NYC.
To suggest it, they'd have to go to Chic. Does every athlete believe it will go no further? I'm sure Bob would suggest it'd go no further. But the reality is, some athletes might believe it would leak.
Lift I agree with ya, on the working outside the IFBB also. I just think the PDI is another way to do this. And their BBing stages are going to look so different, it's almost more market segmentation than direct competition.
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Why on Gods green earth, would the IFBB let their athletes compete in a RIVAL federation????
As Ron and I have REPEATEDLY pointed out...there would be no advantage to the IFBB...only to the rival federations. The athletes know this and are under no obligation to sign with the IFBB...they can chose to compete anywhere they wish. If they believe going elsewhere will give them better opportunities, then so be it.
Guys are having a tough enough time making ends meet in ONE federation....you think 2 watered down federations have a BETTER chance? There are guys in the IFBB that don't have contracts...you think all of a sudden there are DIFFERENT supplement companies that don't know these guys exist?
THE ADVANTAGE WOULD BE MAKING MONEY.The ones who get overlooked in the IFBB could atleast try and get a fair go in the PDI.As for the IFBB not strong arming anyone.My contract is up with Twinlab and i have had a few companies interested in signing me.But now they are getting words from ...... and .........Not to as i am a Pdi athlete.I will fill in the blanks later.Just shows you how childish it all is.And why would they be watered down if guys could compete in both? You would have the same guys in different shows in different parts of the country.The fans get to see more and get to see different placings from different judges might be a good thing.
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Chick is only out for the IFBB's athletes ........not athletes in the IFBB
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1. No one cares about YOUR opinion
2. I'm the IFBB Athletes rep, and thus welcome and create all kinds of opportunities for IFBB athletes...not every athlete in evey federation.
I am an IFBB athlete right? YES I AM. So help me Bob create an opportunity for athletes to compete in both and make money.Come on i am still an IFBB athlete so help me.
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...because it's a clear infraction of the rules, and he will be suspended. I don't want to see Lee suspended...I want to see him on the Olympia stage with the bst in the world, where he stands to make $30K-75K...not $15K beating a bunch of guys that have no business standing on stage with him...
Glad your not his manager...
But the rules are being broken all the time and nothing is done.Why now enforce them on me?Look at the rules and tell me there are no athletes breaking them now who will be onstage at the O with nothing done to them.You know i am right.
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Correct. Lee Priest is an IFBB Athlete. The PDi is an opportunity for him to earn money on a weekend when the IFBB is not holding any shows. Why not "welcome" this "opportunity for an IFBB athlete" ?
Because it is a rival organization. That simple. If Lee wants to compete in racing cars while also competing in a bodybuilding event, that is fine. Hell, if Lee wants to be a basketball player while bodybuilding, go for that too. Wayne is trying to change things, but it is up to the IFBB to decide if they want to, and obviously, they don't. By the way, if you can give me some NFL players to compete in a rival NFL league, that would be great too. Shall we ask the NFL on that?
Well, seeing as you had 4 people show up for your last athletes meeting, i can see what kind of faith the athletes have in you.
I know - it is terrible. The athletes dont bother to help the athletes rep, don't bother to get another one, they don't really care. That is too bad. Right now, they care about making sure they have various contracts, supplements, getting prepared for contests, and making sure they cover expenses for them and the family. A little effort for Bob would help, but that requires some extra work, and a phone call to Bob saying we support you.
Since when are bodybuilders athletes? The IFBB doesn't own those who compete.
They are athletes - same like one can say dancing is a sport, or any other non contact sport.
The thing that many IFBB pros would like to see changed is the ability to work shows/expos/seminars outside of NPC/IFBB sanctioned events.
This I agree with. IFBB Pro want to be able to go where they want. There should be no restrictions on them even going to a PDI event to watch, or work a supplement booth, etc, especially if they are IFBB pros. UFC fighters check out other federations events all the time, but dont comete in it.
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THE ADVANTAGE WOULD BE MAKING MONEY.The ones who get overlooked in the IFBB could atleast try and get a fair go in the PDI.As for the IFBB not strong arming anyone.My contract is up with Twinlab and i have had a few companies interested in signing me.But now they are getting words from ...... and .........Not to as i am a Pdi athlete.I will fill in the blanks later.Just shows you how childish it all is.And why would they be watered down if guys could compete in both? You would have the same guys in different shows in different parts of the country.The fans get to see more and get to see different placings from different judges might be a good thing.
Hey Chick i bet if you compete in the PDI your not taking first place. Why do you think that is? ::)
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**Why on Gods green earth, would the IFBB let their athletes compete in a RIVAL federation?**
Since when are bodybuilders athletes? The IFBB doesn't own those who compete. I strongly resent the control tactics that the IFBB use over those who want to compete in their contests. In my opinion bodybuilders should be able to compete in any contests as long as they join up and pay the required fees. All this contract stuff is pathetic. No wonder contests seem to be controversial every year. I have seen the way bodybuilders have been manipulated over the years. No wonder most end up rather meek and disillusioned. The IFBB has never respected bodybuilders as people nor treated them right. That IFBB meeting you posted is illuminating. I am hardly impressed. Where are the bodybuilders in the executive positions? The whole organization seems like a club. You belong and obey or get the boot.
WELL SAID :)
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Chic, I think you do care what I say, since you respond to everything I say. But this is not a popularity contest.
By stating IFBB rules you are trying to reinforce them, but as IFBB athletes rep you supposed to help bend those rules. It seems like GETBIG members care more about athletes than you do. I said it before and I will say it again, Lee Priest is an IFBB athlete why dont you do your best for him NOT to be suspended.
It's funny how we never heard anyone saying anything about suspending him, which he probably will be. But you the only IFBB rep who comes on here stating how an IFBB pro will be suspended.
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Because it is a rival organization. That simple. If Lee wants to compete in racing cars while also competing in a bodybuilding event, that is fine. Hell, if Lee wants to be a basketball player while bodybuilding, go for that too. Wayne is trying to change things, but it is up to the IFBB to decide if they want to, and obviously, they don't. By the way, if you can give me some NFL players to compete in a rival NFL league, that would be great too. Shall we ask the NFL on that?
I know - it is terrible. The athletes dont bother to help the athletes rep, don't bother to get another one, they don't really care. That is too bad. Right now, they care about making sure they have various contracts, supplements, getting prepared for contests, and making sure they cover expenses for them and the family. A little effort for Bob would help, but that requires some extra work, and a phone call to Bob saying we support you.
They are athletes - same like one can say dancing is a sport, or any other non contact sport.
This I agree with. IFBB Pro want to be able to go where they want. There should be no restrictions on them even going to a PDI event to watch, or work a supplement booth, etc, especially if they are IFBB pros. UFC fighters check out other federations events all the time, but dont comete in it.
Yes Ron i agree they should be able to watch or works boths.This is one reason Adela and i seperated fighting over the fact she wouldn't come watch me compete in fear that she would be blackballed come Olympia. Nothin like good old support. :)
We want bodybuilding to progress to grow.The IFBB and it's monopoly on it is just keeping it from going nowhere.
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Hey Ron the last time i checked NFL football players were paid like professional athletes. Bodybuilders are paid like shit if it wasn't for the supplement contracts these guys would starve. For what they put there bodies threw they should be making a hell of alot more money than what they make. Everybody else gets paid why not the athletes? Ron you know why. The puppet show called IFBB
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Actually "Bud" what doesn't look good is the desperate measures the IFBB is taking to undermind the PDI. Doesn't the IFBB understand that by trying to sabotage the PDI, they are making the "peanut gallery" want the PDI to succed even more? The IFBB survives because the "Peanut Gallery" spends it's hard earned money on IFBB shows. Piss us off and we will be more than glad to take our bussiness else where.
As much as I love your passion and your desire for the IFBB to HAVE to give fans their money's worth...you've got it ALL wrong, brother.
The IFBB exists for the purpose of selling nutritional 'supplements'. That's the beginning, middle, and end. The bodybuilding events are just a means to an end...the money garnered from them is PEANUTS compared to what the powder merchants make annually. In many cases, their contributions to bodybuilding shows are done at a loss.
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This is one reason Adela and i seperated fighting over the fact she wouldn't come watch me compete in fear that she would be blackballed come Olympia.Nothin like good old support. :)
She was afraid she'd be blackballed for sitting in the audience?
If that's true [and I hold out the possibility that - like the rest of us - she simply finds competitions dull and was looking for an excuse not to go] that just about says it all about the way the IFBB does business, doesn't it.
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We have went over this. The same reason why any other professional in any other sport cannot compete for any organization. Whether it is football, soccer, baseball, bowling, etc.
FALSE
PGA golfers can make appearances and play on multiple tours.
Professional hockey players (NHL) can make money in multiple leagues simultaneously.
Professional soccer players can play for clubs in both the U.S. *and* Europe in the same calendar year.
You don't really see it with basketball and baseball players, because they're making so much money anyway. Hi-salary American football only exists in the U.S., so NFL players don't moonlight either.
If bodybuilding is a sport (or at least a sporting activity), why not get in step with other sports?
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Hey Ron the last time i checked NFL football players were paid like professional athletes. Bodybuilders are paid like shit if it wasn't for the supplement contracts these guys would starve. For what they put there bodies threw they should be making a hell of alot more money than what they make. Everybody else gets paid why not the athletes? Ron you know why. The puppet show called IFBB
The last time I checked, NFL had a multi-year billion plus contract with the television network, 45,000+ people a game, etc. The more the supplement companies provide contracts, the more the suppement companies come to the expos, the more the provide sponsorships to the IFBB show, they more prize money can come out of it.
As for bodybuilders, I wish when someone becomes a pro, they would go to a one day seminar from the seasoned pros who can tell them how to promote themselves via a business. Bodybuilding Productions.
The IFBB exists for the purpose of selling nutritional 'supplements'. That's the beginning, middle, and end. The bodybuilding events are just a means to an end...the money garnered from them is PEANUTS compared to what the powder merchants make annually. In many cases, their contributions to bodybuilding shows are done at a loss.
Tre, are you kidding me. 10-12 years ago, the expos were small, there were mostly bodybuilding shows with a few booths. As the supplement industry grew in the last 10-12 years, so did the expos, and so did the prize money for bodybuilders, and the contracts they can have. There is a major difference between a decade ago and now, in terms of financial benefits for the bodybuilders. Come on! Learn your history.
PGA golfers can make appearances and play on multiple tours. Professional hockey players (NHL) can make money in multiple leagues simultaneously. Professional soccer players can play for clubs in both the U.S. *and* Europe in the same calendar year.
Really? Show me where an NFL hockey player plays for the NFL today, then plays for another league a two weeks later, then goes back to the NFL to play in the same year? Where? Same with any sport, as far as I know. Just show me one NFL player that does that. Hey, I play for the NFL Kings, and also the Long Beach Ice Dogs. See you Saturday at the Staples Center, and next week at the different organization. No go..
IFBB Pro can, at any year, decide which organization they want to go to. They just don't renew their pro card with the IFBB.
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The thing that many IFBB pros would like to see changed is the ability to work shows/expos/seminars outside of NPC/IFBB sanctioned events. This makes sense to do as they would make more money and it helps further the NPC & IFBB to others.
So who is working towards achieving that goal?
Can YOU explain why the IFBB *doesn't* want its member athletes to have as many income opportunities as possible? I can.
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We have went over this. The same reason why any other professional in any other sport cannot compete for any organization. Whether it is football, soccer, baseball, bowling, etc. The athletes can choose where he wants to compete.
You don't get banned from the NFL for spending a year in the CFL.
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You don't get banned from the NFL for spending a year in the CFL.
If someone competes in the CFL while being in the NFL, you can beleive that their will be issues
As for an IFBB Pro, if they choose to compete in the PDI, there will be no problem with the IFBB. Next year. If an IFBB Pro chose to renew his pro card this year, then they are obligated to finish out the year, otherwise they will be suspended. Next year, if one goes to the PDI, or if they have not renewed their pro card this year, they can go to the PDI with no suspension.
Now, if they want to come back to the IFBB afterwards, that is a different situation, one which in recent times we dont know what will happen.
If I remember correctly, the WBF bodybuilder were eventually allowed to come back to the IFBB.
Is there a recent case of an IFBB Pro who left that wanted to compete again and was denied??? If they didn't violate the rules, and are not a current IFBB Pro, now that is an interesting question?
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Well, seeing as you had 4 people show up for your last athletes meeting, i can see what kind of faith the athletes have in you.
Whoa - don't blame Chick for more IFBB 'pro' card holders not being willing to MAN (or woman) UP.
Listen to the whispers - there are a lot of complainers out there competing, but when it's time to put their heads together and talk about bringing about some changes, all-of-a-sudden, everyone is happy with things as they are.
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UFC fighters check out other federations events all the time, but dont compete in it.
They used to, I know (not sure about these days). But at least those guys are getting paid.
And that's why the UFC is growing like crazy while the IFBB is pretty much going down the toilet.
Oops.
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Really? Show me where an NHL hockey player plays for the NHL today, then plays for another league a two weeks later, then goes back to the NHL to play in the same year? Where?
During the NHL lockout, many of those guys (I don't know the exact percentage) who had contracts with their teams here in N. America went overseas to play and would've been welcomed back at any time if the NHL season had been re-started.
During the NBA work stoppage a few years back, a handful of players did accept short-term contracts with European teams in order to stay in basketball shape. These were individual decisions, not team.
PGA golfers regularly make appearances - for money - on other tours around the world.
When is the last time you attended a bodybuilding event to see Ben Weider or David Pecker?
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If someone comepte in the CFL while being in the NFL, you can beleive that their will be issues
Look at the Ricky Williams situation.
He got a suspension from the NFL and then went to look for work with a CFL team.
The NFL is upset about this. Too bad.
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When it comes down to it, Vince Taylor has to do what's best for him.
You know what this means, a better placing for the other guys...
Long Live the New Breed aka PDI
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Why is the IFBB trying to hardball companies that sponsor the PDI (and PDI athletes) or threaten not to run their adds in Weider publications.Atleast one company stood up and said listen it's my money we will sponsor who we like.And if you don't like it i can pull my money from NPC and IFBB shows.Yeah the IFBB always looking out for the better of Bodybuilding. ;D
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Lee, just tell us that you will not abandon the PDI....
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Lee, just tell us that you will not abandon the PDI....
not if it's in his best interest at that particular time. Which is how it should be.
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I am signed to do the NOC and shall do so.I have a leg injury god knows how it hurts so i will press on get in shape(i hope) i am willing to give the PDI a shot.Why not? Didn't the IFBB start somewhere and Wayne was the reason it did so well.Look at the mess it is now. :P
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And that's why the UFC is growing like crazy while the IFBB is pretty much going down the toilet.
Oops.
Just wondering, why exactly is it going down the toilet?
There are 8 new IFBB pro shows this year, including Shawn Ray's, which has the 3rd biggest purse in bodybuilding and one in Spain at the world's premiere resort. When was the last time there were that many new shows? Maybe we fans should support them, instead of tearing them down and then saying I told you so if they don't come back next year.
The Olympia prize money went up a whopping 40% last year to $560,000. Sure, the Orleans hotel sucks (though the arena itself is at least as good as Mandalay Bay), but the money saved (that used to go to Wayne in a notoriously crooked deal) actually went back to the athletes with the biggest raise in bodybuiding history. The purse wasn't going up when the profits filled Wayne's pockets. Hopefully, it goes up more this year.
Everyone always says the IFBB is going down, but where's the evidence? If all you have is the Toronto show being cancelled or production problems with last year's O, that's weak. Shit happens, but it seems to me the IFBB has never been stronger. Maybe that's why guys aren't jumping and maybe that's why there's nothing specific behind the random crybaby complaints.
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Maybe we fans should support them, instead of tearing them down...
Simple - the cost is too high for even hardcore fans to justify the expense of attending.
The Olympia prize money went up a whopping 40% last year to $560,000.
That was a welcome change, true, but the distribution of 'wealth' (as it were) remained the same.
Everyone always says the IFBB is going down, but where's the evidence?
From the time I was a little boy, I can remember seeing Muscle & Fitness and FLEX magazines on almost every newsstand in America. I'm not sure how much you know about magazine distribution, but it takes a lot of money and power to get that type of newsstand coverage worldwide.
Yet, with that great a presence, the IFBB - which is synonymous with those 2 titles - has not made an effort in the past 20 years to market a single 'star'.
There's obviously a reason for that, and it's my firm belief that that failure/refusal has directly limited the performers' earning capacity within the competitive side of this industry.
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I am signed to do the NOC and shall do so.I have a leg injury god knows how it hurts so i will press on get in shape(i hope) i am willing to give the PDI a shot.Why not? Didn't the IFBB start somewhere and Wayne was the reason it did so well.Look at the mess it is now. :P
Then consider your competitive days over with. As far as Adela is concerned, she took my advice very wisely and didn't risk her career as you have. I'm sorry to hear about the breakup but you are partially responsible for not supporting her decision. Not everyone wishes to commit career suicide.
Folks, Chick is the IFBB Athlete's Rep but everyone seems to be upset at him not helping out Lee Priest when he has....on the IFBB side. He's not his manager or accountant and if Lee decides to seek money elsewhere in a rival organization, that's his business but it isn't Chick's or anyone elses.
Getting back on subject, lets hear the radio show and see what Vince Taylor has to say. The truth will come out and after the radio show, 240 and the rest of the PDI semi-pro's will clam up real quick.
The nail in the coffin is coming soon for the PDI so I will warn any IFBB pros out there again. Anyone who decides to compete in the PDI or any rival organization will be suspended for an undetermined amount of time. Any top NPC competitor who competes may or may not be suspended however you never know these days how your placings would be affected if you compete in a PDI event and then compete in the NPC Nationals ??? Don't mess up your career folks.
This is not an official message from the IFBB. I'm just a friend passing along some advice I heard a few days ago.... ;D
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Then consider your competitive days over with. As far as Adela is concerned, she took my advice very wisely and didn't risk her career as you have. I'm sorry to hear about the breakup but you are partially responsible for not supporting her decision. Not everyone wishes to commit career suicide.
Vince - You gave Adela advice?
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I am signed to do the NOC and shall do so.I have a leg injury god knows how it hurts so i will press on get in shape(i hope) i am willing to give the PDI a shot.Why not? Didn't the IFBB start somewhere and Wayne was the reason it did so well.Look at the mess it is now. :P
Lee what did you do to your leg?
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Vince - You gave Adela advice?
Any discussion I have with someone is no-one's business, 240. However I'm not sure where she got the idea about being blackballed from.....
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Bottom line the only person this is really hurting in Vince himself. Don't get me wrong the guy is a great poser and bodybuilder however his flip flopping is a desperate attempt at regaining exposure and make money. I can't blame the guy for wanting to make a buck but there is no need to flip flop. He used the Colorado Pro as his "comeback" show only to use it to get exposure. His intentions were to compete in the Arnold the entire time, then didn't get an invite so decided to go to Australian Pro. He goes on PBW and announces he is going to the PDI only to realize later he probably wouldn't get any more guest posings and any supplement contracts. Now that he sees he would make less by switching to the PDI he decides to go back to the IFBB.
The question is will Wayne do anything about his signed contract to do the NOC when he has every intention of not doing it now.
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There are 8 new IFBB pro shows this year,
there were 9 men's pro shows last year, so far this year there have been 7 (including the Masters Pro). The three European shows after the Olympia are on the schedule directly in reaction to the PDI.
There were 13-14 men's shows a year during most of the previous 10 years.
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Any discussion I have with someone is no-one's business, 240.
yet you're more than willing to drop names here
and you wonder why people beat up on you
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Maybe advice on breast support. He must know a lot about that.
Bwahaha. Excellent one.
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yet you're more than willing to drop names here
and you wonder why people beat up on you
Tim, Vince is the epitome of an assclown. Don't waste your time.
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Then consider your competitive days over with. As far as Adela is concerned, she took my advice very wisely and didn't risk her career as you have. I'm sorry to hear about the breakup but you are partially responsible for not supporting her decision. Not everyone wishes to commit career suicide.
Folks, Chick is the IFBB Athlete's Rep but everyone seems to be upset at him not helping out Lee Priest when he has....on the IFBB side. He's not his manager or accountant and if Lee decides to seek money elsewhere in a rival organization, that's his business but it isn't Chick's or anyone elses.
Getting back on subject, lets hear the radio show and see what Vince Taylor has to say. The truth will come out and after the radio show, 240 and the rest of the PDI semi-pro's will clam up real quick.
The nail in the coffin is coming soon for the PDI so I will warn any IFBB pros out there again. Anyone who decides to compete in the PDI or any rival organization will be suspended for an undetermined amount of time. Any top NPC competitor who competes may or may not be suspended however you never know these days how your placings would be affected if you compete in a PDI event and then compete in the NPC Nationals ??? Don't mess up your career folks.
This is not an official message from the IFBB. I'm just a friend passing along some advice I heard a few days ago.... ;D
No Vince i have supported Adela everytime in everything..The IFBB is making her choose not me.What advice did you give her.Come on you and your advice.
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I am signed to do the NOC and shall do so.I have a leg injury god knows how it hurts so i will press on get in shape(i hope) i am willing to give the PDI a shot.Why not? Didn't the IFBB start somewhere and Wayne was the reason it did so well.Look at the mess it is now. :P
Why not? Why take a financial bath when you could be making 3-4 times the money, Lee?
I'm all about change, as you Know....and I've stated numerous times that I will be challenging the ruling of making appearances, etc. on non-sanctioned events..I believe this will benefit more athletes and open up the market for athletes to MAKE money...not spend more in contest preps.
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yet you're more than willing to drop names here
and you wonder why people beat up on you
Lee Priest brought up the fact that Adela broke up with him because she was afraid she was going to be blackballed.
She obviously listened to the advice given obviously given by everyone including myself. No-one wants to commit career suicide.
Now if I wanted to really drop names or info around here, I would tell you what Vince Taylor is going to say about that contract but you'll have to wait. Just like everyone will have to wait to find out with GH15 really is.
This is a discussion board so I'm discussing the issue. Its not name dropping I'm doing.
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lee stop being such a little bitch
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No Vince i have supported Adela everytime in everything..The IFBB is making her choose not me.What advice did you give her.Come on you and your advice.
Bullshit, you obviously were not thinking of her career when you joined the PDI. You were only thinking about getting some easy money off some people who don't even belong on a pro stage. You know good and well you'll win the NOC and that's why you're doing it for.
You can blame the IFBB for your break-up but that's the lamest shit I've ever heard.
P.S. Sending a letter is the most effective way of getting a message across
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Come on folks, lets keep it clean and not say anything vulgar about Adela.
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Lee & Adela, like any other couples, had their own reasonings as to whey they are no longer together. Adela not going to see Lee at the NOC two weeks before she is competing in the Fitness Olympia for the title was one issue - however, can you blame her either? This is one of the biggest shows for her, and to disrupt her training, diet, style, and mental focus two weeks before the show is not the smartest thing do to either. But that is a very small issue in relationships.
Vince's statement coming on the radio show in less than two hours...
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I just wanna chime in. I am a 18 year old track athlete, and we are allowed to compete in any federation we want and earn prize money, whether it is sanctioned by athletics canada, USTAF, or IAAF(there are many more) all the people who own them don't mind their athletes competeing in other federations. the different organizations don't see each other as competitors and don't try to keep certain athletes under their control rather they let us compete all around the world in many different organizations, which helps promote our sport. It is no coincidence that track and field is the 2nd most popular sport in the world.
It just seems kind of pathetic that full grown men and women are told what they can and cannot pursure in order to forward their careers. Track athletes would never stand for it. It is almost like the olympic committe banning athletes from competeing in the Pan Am or Common Wealth Games (all different promoters). They all work together to forward sport rather then halt it's progress.
Just my thoughts :)
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Bullshit, you obviously were not thinking of her career when you joined the PDI. You were only thinking about getting some easy money off some people who don't even belong on a pro stage. You know good and well you'll win the NOC and that's why you're doing it for.
You can blame the IFBB for your break-up but that's the lamest shit I've ever heard.
P.S. Sending a letter is the most effective way of getting a message across
Read again Vince if you can.I said it was a subject we had fights over.How me joining the PDI affect her she is still in the IFBB .Are you saying that me joining the PDI the IFBB would hold that against her.What type of organization would do that?Getting easy money if i wanted that like Bob said i could just do the Olympia and make alot more.It aint about the money.It's about change and doing something different you MORON god you make it so easy to pick on but i will not.I will control myself :)
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Track athletes would never stand for it.
the difference is that the IFBB is not a sports federation, but a privately held corporation
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I just wanna chime in. I am a 18 year old track athlete, and we are allowed to compete in any federation we want and earn prize money, whether it is sanctioned by athletics canada, USTAF, or IAAF(there are many more) all the people who own them don't mind their athletes competeing in other federations. the different organizations don't see each other as competitors and don't try to keep certain athletes under their control rather they let us compete all around the world in many different organizations, which helps promote our sport. It is no coincidence that track and field is the 2nd most popular sport in the world.
It just seems kind of pathetic that full grown men and women are told what they can and cannot pursure in order to forward their careers. Track athletes would never stand for it. It is almost like the olympic committe banning athletes from competeing in the Pan Am or Common Wealth Games (all different promoters). They all work together to forward sport rather then halt it's progress.
Just my thoughts :)
Very good post.The IFBB needs to take a look at this one.Yeah full grown can you beleive it? and this is how they act.
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This is a discussion board so I'm discussing the issue. Its not name dropping I'm doing.
"she took my advice", but "any discussion I had with her is no one's business"
too bad SMF doesn't have kill files
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Read again Vince if you can.I said it was a subject we had fights over.How me joining the PDI affect her she is still in the IFBB .Are you saying that me joining the PDI the IFBB would hold that against her.What type of organization would do that?Getting easy money if i wanted that like Bob said i could just do the Olympia and make alot more.It aint about the money.It's about change and doing something different you MORON god you make it so easy to pick on but i will not.I will control myself :)
Ok, I won't bring up your personal business again because it really isn't none of my business.
However you're stating that you're competing for change and to do something different.
Lets see:
Lee Priest
VS
Vince Galanti
Jack "Rhino" London
And some other no namers.
Competition is about competition. You should be competing against your equal rivals. Vince and Rhino are great bodybuilders but they are not your equals.
Its not a fair fight and you know it, Lee. That's not change, that's a beatdown.
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sorry pardon my ignorance, I do not know much about the competitive aspect of professional bodybuilding. I Just figured rules such as this only halts your very unique sport.
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Very good post.The IFBB needs to take a look at this one.Yeah full grown can you beleive it? and this is how they act.
They don't have to, the IFBB is essentially a business.
The PDI is also a business. Its also a rival business to the IFBB
Does Microsoft let their workers go to Red Hat to work on Linux???
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They don't have to, the IFBB is essentially a business.
I believe it's a Canadian NonProfit.
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I do not know much about the competitive aspect of professional bodybuilding. I Just figured rules such as this only halts your very unique sport.
it does, and that's why some people are trying to change it. The IFBB and the NPC has become too complacent.
Even if this first new NOC is Lee and a bunch of nobodies, even if this is the one and only show the PDI holds, it is forcing the industry to change.
competition is good.
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I believe it's a Canadian NonProfit.
Still a business, nevertheless.
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Does Microsoft let their workers go to Red Hat to work on Linux???
if pro athletes were employees of the IFBB, with benefits, then your point may have some relevance.
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it does, and that's why some people are trying to change it. The IFBB and the NPC has become too complacent.
Even if this first new NOC is Lee and a bunch of nobodies, even if this is the one and only show the PDI holds, it is forcing the industry to change.
competition is good.
How do you think it's forcing the industry to change?
The WBF forced the industry to chnge due to McMahon having the money to offer contracts to top IFBB pros...what change is the impending PDI having?
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I guess that is what makes bodybuilding unique eh, it has to be somewhat of a monopoly due to the nature of it. It is hardly mainstream compared to track thus they must act in this way to make sure their wallets are full. Whereas in track, billions of people are fans of it, and thus there are sponsors handing $$$ to all the promoters from a wide variety such as food and clothing products to car companies, so there is plenty of money to go around. So they don't have to moniter where their athletes are competeing to insure profit for themselves, like I assume the promoters of bodybuilding do?
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Chick - you said you haven't submitted any requests for the IFBB to allow athletes to compete in the PDI because no one has asked.
lee Priest asked on this thread.
Will you be submitting the request now?
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How do you think it's forcing the industry to change?
The WBF forced the industry to change due to McMahon having the money to offer contracts to top IFBB pros...what change is the impending PDI having?
They will give a chance for the guy who are not good enough to cut it in the IFBB to succeed in the PDI ;D
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Chick - you said you haven't submitted any requests for the IFBB to allow athletes to compete in the PDI because no one has asked.
lee Priest asked on this thread.
Will you be submitting the request now?
No...I'll need more than 1. Majority rules...
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I just wanna chime in. I am a 18 year old track athlete, and we are allowed to compete in any federation we want and earn prize money, whether it is sanctioned by athletics canada, USTAF, or IAAF(there are many more) all the people who own them don't mind their athletes competeing in other federations. the different organizations don't see each other as competitors and don't try to keep certain athletes under their control rather they let us compete all around the world in many different organizations, which helps promote our sport. It is no coincidence that track and field is the 2nd most popular sport in the world.
It just seems kind of pathetic that full grown men and women are told what they can and cannot pursure in order to forward their careers. Track athletes would never stand for it. It is almost like the olympic committe banning athletes from competeing in the Pan Am or Common Wealth Games (all different promoters). They all work together to forward sport rather then halt it's progress.
Just my thoughts :)
Excellent post.
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No...I'll need more than 1. Majority rules...
Have you had an official vote for every request you've submitted thus far?
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How do you think it's forcing the industry to change?
what change is the impending PDI having?
there are three european shows on the schedule.
the IFBB is negotiating with athletes trying to get them to stay
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They don't have to, the IFBB is essentially a business.
The PDI is also a business. Its also a rival business to the IFBB
Does Microsoft let their workers go to Red Hat to work on Linux???
I'm sure all Microsft employees get a weekly wage with holiday pay, sick pay etc. Are the IFBB Pros getting paid to work for the IFBB? If not, then then why does the IFBB see fit to tell them when & where they can compete.
I was under the impression that they were competing for prize money, not getting paid a wage to compete by the IFBB.
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I believe it's a Canadian NonProfit.
Some might question the legitimacy of that "non-profit" status...
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Chick - you said you haven't submitted any requests for the IFBB to allow athletes to compete in the PDI because no one has asked.
lee Priest asked on this thread.
Will you be submitting the request now?
No...I'll need more than 1. Majority rules...
I think this is an INCREDIBLE statement.
Possibly the most important thing we'll all walk away with from this thread. It means that:
1) Bob has denied a request from an IFBB athlete to request something from the IFBB.
2) Bob has stated that he is willing to make a request like that if MORE athletes ask.
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The last time I checked, NFL had a multi-year billion plus contract with the television network, 45,000+ people a game, etc. The more the supplement companies provide contracts, the more the suppement companies come to the expos, the more the provide sponsorships to the IFBB show, they more prize money can come out of it.
Ron is right about the contracts with the television Network but I think we need to be careful thinking more supplement company dollars will make everything better for the athletes.
It WOULD, but the truth as most people who have been around for awhile and spent some $ know is that MOST supplements are GARBAGE.
These companies are modern day snake charmers and medicine men.
Is that the foundation we have to hope to build our sport on? I'm mulling over alternatives, but don't feel I have any worth proferring yet...
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I am signed to do the NOC and shall do so.I have a leg injury god knows how it hurts so i will press on get in shape(i hope) i am willing to give the PDI a shot.Why not? Didn't the IFBB start somewhere and Wayne was the reason it did so well.Look at the mess it is now. :P
My whole point from earlier! The IFBB was born in competition. No one here remembers the Hofman-Weider wars? Wars Weider DID NOT win overnight! Give PDI 2-3 years.
And anyone who wants to knock the lineup at the NOC has got to ask themselves how this year's Mr. Olympia stage matches up to the very first Mr. Olympia lineup. Again, the IFBB draws the best talent now, but this wasn't always the case and it doesn't always have to be!
I say this as a fan of IFBB shows, but also as a guy who thinks competition is great. These threads since the PDI was announced have been some of the most entertaining!!!
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Some might question the legitimacy of that "non-profit" status...
That's for the Canadian Government to do however I would seriously doubt they would mess with Ben Weider. He does hold the highest military award Canada has if I'm not mistaken
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Bullshit, you obviously were not thinking of her career when you joined the PDI. You were only thinking about getting some easy money off some people who don't even belong on a pro stage. You know good and well you'll win the NOC and that's why you're doing it for.
You can blame the IFBB for your break-up but that's the lamest shit I've ever heard.
P.S. Sending a letter is the most effective way of getting a message across
Hey Vince the winner of the PDI show is not set in stone like the IFBB shows.Everbody that competes has a chance to win.That is why us the fans can't wait for the show.
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Hey Vince the winner of the PDI show is not set in stone like the IFBB shows.Everbody that competes has a chance to win.That is why us the fans can't wait for the show.
Especially since Lee is battling a leg injury. A lifetime best Galanti or TJ could edge out Lee for quite a story!
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Ok, I won't bring up your personal business again because it really isn't none of my business.
However you're stating that you're competing for change and to do something different.
Lets see:
Lee Priest
VS
Vince Galanti
Jack "Rhino" London
And some other no namers.
Competition is about competition. You should be competing against your equal rivals. Vince and Rhino are great bodybuilders but they are not your equals.
Its not a fair fight and you know it, Lee. That's not change, that's a beatdown.
Vince...so what will you say if Lee does not place ahead of these soo called "non-equals"? Will you then shut your pie hole, get in the gym and train?
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I think this is an INCREDIBLE statement.
Possibly the most important thing we'll all walk away with from this thread. It means that:
1) Bob has denied a request from an IFBB athlete to request something from the IFBB.
2) Bob has stated that he is willing to make a request like that if MORE athletes ask.
You are correct sir...
Still waiting for all those requests to start pouring in.
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Especially since Lee is battling a leg injury. A lifetime best Galanti or TJ could edge out Lee for quite a story!
Bahahahahaha!!!! Are you serious!!!
Lee Priest is going to win. Everyone sees it coming, bro. Galanti was 5th last year at the Nationals. He will get destroyed
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Vince...so what will you say if Lee does not place ahead of these soo called "non-equals"? Will you then shut your pie hole, get in the gym and train?
If he loses, the IFBB may not let him back...... ;D
Either way he's screwed unless he drops out from the show.
Vince and Rhino are great bodybuilders but they're not good enough to be considered "Pro Quality"
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I think PDI needs to introduce one of those "big names" they have been talking about crossing over or the NOC will look like Vinny and Rhino posing in front of Arvillia and littleguns.
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Ron, YOU cannot compare anything like the NFL or any other REAL sporting body to the IFBB. The IFBB is not a recognized organization in any industry. It is basically a business owned and operated by the Weiders and now AMI with the Weiders still making the calls. It is their business and they run it the way THEY want. Not the right way but their way. Every IFBB pro is basically spineless and gutless except for guys like Milos and Lee.
They are so insecure and afraid to speak what they really want to say because they are afraid of getting a black eye from the IFBB. The NFL and every other sporting organization take care of their members. The IFBB DOES NOT do anythng. It has been proven since it's inception. As much as I still like Chic and I like his attitude, he supports people that take advantage of every opportunity to f**k an IFBB pro. This is beyond me. How can they tell you what and where to go to make money when they do not pay you one penny.
They do absoultely nothing for you, to try to defend the IFBB is absolutely worthless and stupid beyond all comprehension. Are you really that insecure not to speak your mind and do what you can to support you and your family.
CHic since you are the IFBB rep answer these;
1. What kind of retirement fund does the IFBB provide or have in place for their members
2. What kind of insurance does the IFBB provide
3. What is the minimum pay in the IFBB
4. What kind of legal representation does the IFBB provide each member in case of non-payment or any other issue reagrding competition, sponsorship etc.
5. What sponsorhsips do the IFBB provide the members
6. How many IFBB pros are on the Board of Directors
7. Who are the regional representatives for the IFBB members or are youtheir only rep worldwide
8. Does the IFBB provide insurance to it's members when on photo shoots or any other apperance where they are representing the IFBB.
9. When is the voting for the Board of Directors
10. Since the IFBB doesn't allow members to make money outside of IFBB sponsored events, do they pay the members anything to offset what they are missing out at shows they could be working or appearing.
11. Does the IFBB pay the members who appear in magazines for their likeness.
12. What type of profit-sharing does the IFBB offer its members
13. What kind of residual payments do IFBB members get for use of their pictures or likeness in publications, tapes, DVD or other material. And if not, does the IFBB provide a tracking system for the members so that they can track their usage and charge whoever accordingly
14. I know their is a rule in the IFFB rules stating no drug use. DO the have an annual date they test all the members or do they provide the cost of testing to each member so they can get tested. How do they enforce this rule. (P.S. we all knwo they put this rule in only so that organizations like the IOC would even talk to them. There was never any intention to enforce it. It was put in place to fullfill certain requirements by other federations and organizations)
Since your are the IFBB spokeperson cause Manion is too afraid please answer these very easy questions. Then please list all the ways the IFBB is good for its members. And please providing sanctioned shows is not one of them. Anybody can put on a show by themselves without having to pay the IFBB.
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The guys like Ron and Vince and CHic that say why would the IFBB prevent their member to compete in a rival organization just does not hold water. What gives them the right to say where you can compete. They do not pay their members a dime. How can they dictate how or where you can make money when they do not own you. Only pussies let guys like the IFBB runs their lives. What it comes down too is the member are too stupid and have no intelligence to go out and make money themselves. They have to rely on the IFBB. Which s even more stupid cause they do not pay you or make you money.
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You guys are forgetting Frey and a few others from Europe in the NOC. Frey could very easily beat the majority of the IFBB pros. Maybe not the top ten but pretty much the remaining 190 members
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Well, Lee and Keith and Milos are real men and speak their minds. I wish more people could do that. What happens is that bodybuilders want to win the Olympia and since it is the biggest contest they learn to tow the line. If Lee gets the boot by rebelling then that is one less guy to compete against. Every bodybuilder quickly learns what NOT to do. Namely don't think or try to go against those running the IFBB contests.
Ben Weider is fond of calling what he does the Official way. When you look at organizations, even Olympic ones, you end up seeing individuals running things. Ben gets Manion and others to support him. He gives them power and they tow the line. If you look at this thread you see how the IFBB works. Read what Chick says. Lee is only one person so will be ignored. Heck, way to go, Chick, you will be promoted for saying that. Better still, you will be athlete rep for life!!
Only me says it better than I can. The plain truth is you have to kiss butt to win IFBB contests. There are no exceptions. I love the way the IFBB placed Sergio and Bev Francis 8th. Ben Weider virtually fixed the 83 debut contest Bev competed in. It is all documented in "Pumping Iron, The Women." There was Steve Weinberger shaking his head wondering what happened. Well, if he had a clue he would have realized that they would never let Bev win. She was bad for women's bodybuilding. They never did let her win the Olympia. It is my opinion that the IFBB has a posedown so that errant judges can correct their scores. We have seen this several times in the history of the sport. They did it one year when Bev was winning except lost in the posedown. That is what the posedown is for. Ben is clever. He continues to dupe clueless, gutless bodybuilders. Serge Nubret was popular in Europe so Ben elected himself life president to prevent Serge or anyone else from ever running the IFBB.
In 1981 a group of us ran contests in Sydney. We respected bodybuilders and all decisions were done for their benefit. One thing we did was publish the judges results at the end of the contest. It was simple to do but not possible if you have a posedown that might alter placings. There is no way anyone can judge a posedown where all are doing different things. It is preposterous. Yet Chick and others seem to accept this blatant nonsense. It is a pity Ben was never a bodybuilder. Come to think about it Joe hardly lifted a weight, either. I don't trust non-bodybuilders. I don't trust the IFBB when they install former criminals to help them do whatever it is that they do. It surely is not the sport of bodybuilding. The IFBB stinks from the top down. Guys like me are never invited to judge or contribute. I could redo the whole judging enterprise to make it fair and valid. Until someone fair redoes this the nonsense we witness yearly will continue. Lee will be silenced and he will be used to keep the others kissing butt. Watch and see if I am right.
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Wayne may have been a dick to Kevin Levrone at the 2002 Olympia athlete's meeting, but he is a damn good promoter. ;D
yes wayne was officialy a douchebag in my mind after I saw that >:(
E
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Well, Lee and Keith and Milos are real men and speak their minds. I wish more people could do that. What happens is that bodybuilders want to win the Olympia and since it is the biggest contest they learn to tow the line. If Lee gets the boot by rebelling then that is one less guy to compete against. Every bodybuilder quickly learns what NOT to do. Namely don't think or try to go against those running the IFBB contests.
Ben Weider is fond of calling what he does the Official way. When you look at organizations, even Olympic ones, you end up seeing individuals running things. Ben gets Manion and others to support him. He gives them power and they tow the line. If you look at this thread you see how the IFBB works. Read what Chick says. Lee is only one person so will be ignored. Heck, way to go, Chick, you will be promoted for saying that. Better still, you will be athlete rep for life!!
Only me says it better than I can. The plain truth is you have to kiss butt to win IFBB contests. There are no exceptions. I love the way the IFBB placed Sergio and Bev Francis 8th. Ben Weider virtually fixed the 83 debut contest Bev competed in. It is all documented in "Pumping Iron, The Women." There was Steve Weinberger shaking his head wondering what happened. Well, if he had a clue he would have realized that they would never let Bev win. She was bad for women's bodybuilding. They never did let her win the Olympia. It is my opinion that the IFBB has a posedown so that errant judges can correct their scores. We have seen this several times in the history of the sport. They did it one year when Bev was winning except lost in the posedown. That is what the posedown is for. Ben is clever. He continues to dupe clueless, gutless bodybuilders. Serge Nubret was popular in Europe so Ben elected himself life president to prevent Serge or anyone else from ever running the IFBB.
In 1981 a group of us ran contests in Sydney. We respected bodybuilders and all decisions were done for their benefit. One thing we did was publish the judges results at the end of the contest. It was simple to do but not possible if you have a posedown that might alter placings. There is no way anyone can judge a posedown where all are doing different things. It is preposterous. Yet Chick and others seem to accept this blatant nonsense. It is a pity Ben was never a bodybuilder. Come to think about it Joe hardly lifted a weight, either. I don't trust non-bodybuilders. I don't trust the IFBB when they install former criminals to help them do whatever it is that they do. It surely is not the sport of bodybuilding. The IFBB stinks from the top down. Guys like me are never invited to judge or contribute. I could redo the whole judging enterprise to make it fair and valid. Until someone fair redoes this the nonsense we witness yearly will continue. Lee will be silenced and he will be used to keep the others kissing butt. Watch and see if I am right.
Lee is being heard loud and clear...he is but one voice. When others express an interest in competing elsewhere in addition to the IFBB, then we can submit for change. Are you suggesting the IFBB should make a change every time a single bodybuilder has a problem with something?
I submit items for consideration on behalf of the athletes...the MAJORITY of athletes...can't think of anything more fair than that.
It's obvious you have an ax to grind with the IFBB, and a major chip on the shoulder...think it alters your thinking any?
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Lee is being heard loud and clear...he is but one voice. When others express an interest in competing elsewhere in addition to the IFBB, then we can submit for change. Are you suggesting the IFBB should make a change every time a single bodybuilder has a problem with something?
I submit items for consideration on behalf of the athletes...the MAJORITY of athletes...can't think of anything more fair than that.
It's obvious you have an ax to grind with the IFBB, and a major chip on the shoulder...think it alters your thinking any?
You have how many IFBB pros? 100? 200? You're not going to submit anything until at least half of them tell you they want it?
Did half of them come to you on health insurance? judging reform? whatever else you've petitioned to the IFBB?
Aside from that, can you at least admit that many feel showing any interest in the PDI will get them penalized in IFBB judging? I know you have to play nice with the rulebook, but in real life, ppl get screwed for things like that.
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I think 240 needs to be realistic about what is probably gonna happen to the PDI in the next few months and not get too upset about it (and therefore not post too many whiny posts either dude...).
Wayne simply didn't have the CASH brother!
I said on here last year that to start a new org it would cost someone quiet a few MILLION dollars and I still stand by it.
First year he needed to offer some guys who are good but not that well off financially (like vince taylor) a monthly salary from 6 months out from the first show to get them to commit and help promote the show.
The first show could NEVER make money and shouldn't have been planned to do as such. The first year would be all about momentum and one great show to get people talking and excited.
Wayne made the fatal mistake of talking about shows in 3 years time blah blah blah. The bodybuilders care about TODAY and paying their rent TODAY.
Bodybuilding can be fixed but it has to suffer for a few years before the turn around could occur. Its like a big company that still makes a profit but is slowly making less and less each year. It needs to spent money now on new ideas and innovations to ensure it's long term survival.
Bodybuilding's long term survival entails more acceptable looking (and healthy looking) physiques winning the top shows and the biggest not being considered the best.
It has a chance with Phil Heath perhaps to change things but it needs to get to the point where a huge guy is basically laughed off the stage because of his growth/insulin gut because MOST of the fans find it ridiculous which isn't the case right now because so many of the young fans simply don't know what a good physique looks like. It needs to be taught to them the ideas of proportion, symmetry, aesthetics, good posing.
When I got involved with the sport it had an artistic side to it promoted by guys like George Butler that gave it some mainstream cred. The general public found it odd but if you told them these guys felt they were living artforms and were trying to perfect their art (ie. themselves) they kind of accepted that concept and could appreciate it (hey it was the 70's too)
As for BOB saying he wouldn't table a request from Lee Presit to be able to compete in BOTH IFBB and PDI I think that is a disgrace.
As the athlete rep and Lee still being a fvcking PAID member for 2006. If Lee wrote a formal request this week asking to be able to compete in both then Bob should table it on his behalf as his rep to the powers that be.
end of story
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good points, balanced post, jwb!
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Would someone like to tell me how this compares to an NFL situation as they are signed to a contract with a professional organization...last I checked not one athlete has a signed contract with the IFBB. Yes you sign contracts to compete in different shows and with supplement companies but not with the IFBB.
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Would someone like to tell me how this compares to an NFL situation as they are signed to a contract with a professional organization...last I checked not one athlete has a signed contract with the IFBB. Yes you sign contracts to compete in different shows and with supplement companies but not with the IFBB.
I think when they send in their money for the card each year they sign something binding them the the IFBB pro division.
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Some might question the legitimacy of that "non-profit" status...
Yep. It's nice how they make the money in the US and transfer the funds to Canada. Smart but still sneaky.
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I think when they send in their money for the card each year they sign something binding them the the IFBB pro division.
If this is true then why would rule 14:9 exist?
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Just goes to show the strength when the rep says he won't listen or do any thing for one member he needs alot to act.Thank god you are not a union boss Chick you would go missing.
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I think you guys are missing the point...The "powers that be" know full well, Lee's position...that in itself isn't going to make any change when it isn't being echoed by anyone else. I'll be more than happy to submit a formal request if Lee puts it together...and all but guarantee it will fall on deaf ears.
The Athletes rep position was created by Shawn and myself to give a COLLECTIVE voice to the IFBB pro's, whose voices and requests wen't largely unanswered by the "powers that be" at the time....
I, myself wanted to do away with having the posing round scored...went to the athletes to get a vote on the matter, they still voted to keep it even though they know they're not really getting scored on it...thats life. Even though I believe it would be in the best interest of the athletes, they feel differently. By majority, those that voted were heard and counted.
When someone else is the rep, they can run it however they want...I'll let the majority rule.
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I think you guys are missing the point...The "powers that be" know full well, Lee's position...that in itself isn't going to make any change when it isn't being echoed by anyone else. I'll be more than happy to submit a formal request if Lee puts it together...and all but guarantee it will fall on deaf ears.
No flaming - being serious here -
IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.
Thoughts?
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Chic,
Some other guy in here asked these questions, how about you answer?
CHic since you are the IFBB rep answer these;
1. What kind of retirement fund does the IFBB provide or have in place for their members
2. What kind of insurance does the IFBB provide
3. What is the minimum pay in the IFBB
4. What kind of legal representation does the IFBB provide each member in case of non-payment or any other issue reagrding competition, sponsorship etc.
5. What sponsorhsips do the IFBB provide the members
6. How many IFBB pros are on the Board of Directors
7. Who are the regional representatives for the IFBB members or are youtheir only rep worldwide
8. Does the IFBB provide insurance to it's members when on photo shoots or any other apperance where they are representing the IFBB.
9. When is the voting for the Board of Directors
10. Since the IFBB doesn't allow members to make money outside of IFBB sponsored events, do they pay the members anything to offset what they are missing out at shows they could be working or appearing.
11. Does the IFBB pay the members who appear in magazines for their likeness.
12. What type of profit-sharing does the IFBB offer its members
13. What kind of residual payments do IFBB members get for use of their pictures or likeness in publications, tapes, DVD or other material. And if not, does the IFBB provide a tracking system for the members so that they can track their usage and charge whoever accordingly
14. I know their is a rule in the IFFB rules stating no drug use. DO the have an annual date they test all the members or do they provide the cost of testing to each member so they can get tested. How do they enforce this rule. (P.S. we all knwo they put this rule in only so that organizations like the IOC would even talk to them. There was never any intention to enforce it. It was put in place to fullfill certain requirements by other federations and organizations)
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I think you guys are missing the point...The "powers that be" know full well, Lee's position...that in itself isn't going to make any change when it isn't being echoed by anyone else. I'll be more than happy to submit a formal request if Lee puts it together...and all but guarantee it will fall on deaf ears.
The Athletes rep position was created by Shawn and myself to give a COLLECTIVE voice to the IFBB pro's, whose voices and requests wen't largely unanswered by the "powers that be" at the time....
I, myself wanted to do away with having the posing round scored...went to the athletes to get a vote on the matter, they still voted to keep it even though they know they're not really getting scored on it...thats life. Even though I believe it would be in the best interest of the athletes, they feel differently. By majority, those that voted were heard and counted.
When someone else is the rep, they can run it however they want...I'll let the majority rule.
Good, hopefully Lee will get off his butt and send you something but are you saying if he does then they won't even respond to it in the negative?
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Chic,
Some other guy in here asked these questions, how about you answer?
CHic since you are the IFBB rep answer these;
1. What kind of retirement fund does the IFBB provide or have in place for their members
A. none
2. What kind of insurance does the IFBB provide
A. none...the Athletes rep has secured Group Health Ins. for IFBB members who wan't it.
3. What is the minimum pay in the IFBB
A. There is no pay, as a member you are listed as an independant contractor
4. What kind of legal representation does the IFBB provide each member in case of non-payment or any other issue reagrding competition, sponsorship etc.
A. the IFBB has legal consul which can be used for such purposes, other than that, athletes can contact their rep for solutions to problems.
5. What sponsorhsips do the IFBB provide the members
A. none directly... indirectly,they offer a platform and exposure via their magazines which have led to many athletes securing contracts including myself.
6. How many IFBB pros are on the Board of Directors
A. no active members that I know of.
7. Who are the regional representatives for the IFBB members or are youtheir only rep worldwide
A. there is no need for "regional" reps...there is one for each respective division.
8. Does the IFBB provide insurance to it's members when on photo shoots or any other apperance where they are representing the IFBB.
A. The IFBB does not provide insurance, Insurance is available via the PTA in accordance with the business deal set up with the athletes rep on behalf of the IFBB athletes.
9. When is the voting for the Board of Directors
A. Don't know
10. Since the IFBB doesn't allow members to make money outside of IFBB sponsored events, do they pay the members anything to offset what they are missing out at shows they could be working or appearing.
A. no
11. Does the IFBB pay the members who appear in magazines for their likeness.
A. No, Weider/AMI does.
12. What type of profit-sharing does the IFBB offer its members
A. None...last I knew the IFBB is a non profit organization.
13. What kind of residual payments do IFBB members get for use of their pictures or likeness in publications, tapes, DVD or other material. And if not, does the IFBB provide a tracking system for the members so that they can track their usage and charge whoever accordingly
A. none, the IFBB doesn't have a publication, sell tapes or DVD's.
14. I know their is a rule in the IFFB rules stating no drug use. DO the have an annual date they test all the members or do they provide the cost of testing to each member so they can get tested. How do they enforce this rule. (P.S. we all knwo they put this rule in only so that organizations like the IOC would even talk to them. There was never any intention to enforce it. It was put in place to fullfill certain requirements by other federations and organizations)
A. Guess you already have the answer
I'll fire the same questions back to you, Keith...just insert "PDI" where IFBB is.
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No flaming - being serious here -
IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.
Thoughts, bob?
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No flaming - being serious here -
IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.
Thoughts, bob?
My thought is that your opinion is meaningless when it comes to the IFBB, or how I run my athletes rep position...
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My thought is that your opinion is meaningless when it comes to the IFBB, or how I run my athletes rep position...
Fair enough.
Thank you for your answer.
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http://www.getbig.com/news/2006-03/060717pdi.htm
The contract that Vince signed - with his signature.
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That contract ain't worth shit.
Basically wayne is saying he doesn't mind if vince DOES compete in the IFBB but DOES mind if he doesn't compete in the PDI.
How will the PDI look to the fans if wayne sues vince, a guy struggling to make ends meet apparently, for damages when he is only looking out for himself and his family?
Wayne won't sue vince no way in the world becuase nobody else will defect if he does...
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"must show adequate reason to not compete..."
Talk about open ended...! Adequate to who?
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"must show adequate reason to not compete..."
Talk about open ended...! Adequate to who?
Too bad you weren't this flippant about contractual language when Lee decided not to do the O last year ;)
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At least Chick responded to some of the things I have written here. Let's get something straight. This is a discussion board and many are voicing opinions about various aspects and organizations in the sport of bodybuilding.
The IFBB doesn't just run professional contests. They are supposed to represent anyone who wants to compete in their contests. Only members of organizations can effect changes there. Sometimes it helps to say things and criticize an organization and individuals so that others will make those changes or at least consider them. Why does anyone assume the IFBB is correct or has the best organization or anything like that? If they were doing things right there wouldn't be so much controversy in their contests.
I am interested in discussing what is best for the bodybuilders and bodybuilding. It is up to individuals in the IFBB to decide where to take that organization. If I had my way I would get rid of the whole shebang and start again. Everything. How can you change a group that has a lifetime president? Answer? With great difficulty. That is exactly what we find here. You are taking heaps of knocks and you are not the IFBB but only a representative of some bodybuilders. However, you seem to defend the IFBB and that is why you continue to get the heat.
What is this nonsense of only one person being unimportant in the IFBB. The president in only one person but look at how much power he has. If you require many voices then the meek will never inherit what is their due. Everyone will refrain from making any criticism because they know what happens to those who do. They place 8th! That is a convenient way to dismiss individuals. "Nice point, Lee, but you are the only one who wants that." What about the justice of what he desires? Namely to be able to make money as a professional doing whatever shows he likes both for posing and competing.
You know, this is all a bunch of crap. Ever since we had professional organizations the sport has gone downhill. Most of us competed just for trophies and titles. As soon as there was prize money all manner of stuff started happening. Loyalty and all that stuff. Can you imagine a tennis player having to be loyal to Wimbleton just to be able to play there? It is preposterous. Instead of our sport growing it has decayed into a sideshow.
Let's talk about some of those majority decisions. Most of the women bodybuilders would support letting women have breast implants. However, by allowing them to have them many have been able to do all manner of things to their bodies and still retain a certain female look because they have breasts. That allowed most to use drugs and develop very muscular bodies. While many are certainly impressive the look is hardly what is approved of by most people who witness these contests or see photos of them.
Another majority decision would be using drugs. Most top bodybuilders would support being able to use anabolic steroids, etc., and other substances to help them look ripped. That many would vote to support those substances is surely what has tainted the sport and makes the whole activity seem underground. Every other sport has drug testing and they are strict about it. Bodybuilding? It is a joke. You don't need to be in the IFBB or a rep to know what is killing the sport.
In our modern world people are hungry for entertainment. However, they will hardly want to look at contests that portray cheaters and drug users. I won't even talk about synthol or inserts. If you get back to the basics and reward pure bodybuilding then it should be clear what has to be done.
The problem that the IFBB had in the past was finding a way to attract and then keep enough bodybuilders to make a viable organization. The AAU and NAABA were top organizations long ago. Other organizations popped up but the IFBB had the show that everyone wanted to win. The Olympia was that show. Eventually they made rules to stop anyone from competing in other shows. Next we heard about contracts? Why on earth do you need contracts? Well, it all smacks of a business. That is what we are hearing here on this forum.
Vince Basile, IFBB Mr Canada 1970
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Too bad you weren't this flippant about contractual language when Lee decided not to do the O last year ;)
If Lee had made mention to me that he had a problem PRIOR to bailing out of the Olympia ...I couldv'e looked into it. He said he read it, understood it, signed it, and sent it in...THEN he changed his mind.
He must not have too big an issue with it, as he has stated he want'd to enter THIS years Olympia with the SAME contract
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Bob, I made sense for the first time ever, and you wouldn't answer. I'm a little bummed:
IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.
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If Lee had made mention to me that he had a problem PRIOR to bailing out of the Olympia ...I couldv'e looked into it. He said he read it, understood it, signed it, and sent it in...THEN he changed his mind.
Didn't Vince also read/understand/sign/send in a contract? Did he skip the 'send it in' step? I thought Wayne's statement said a contract was in place?
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Bob, I made sense for the first time ever, and you wouldn't answer. I'm a little bummed:
IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.
You make NO sense because you don't have any idea of what you're commenting on...
What lawyer? You think the athletes will "pitch in" to hire a lawyer...lolol.
I haven't even submitted my request at this time to ammend the ruling of making non-sanctioned appearances.... to be accepted I hope.
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note to self----keep mouth shut and stay out of anything
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Didn't Vince also read/understand/sign/send in a contract? Did he skip the 'send it in' step? I thought Wayne's statement said a contract was in place?
Not my job to look into PDI contracts...
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Who really cares pro bodybuilding is fuckin ridiculous, Chic you represnt athletes that dont get paid or if they do in the scope of proffesional sports fuck all, and most other sportsmen dont have to stick half their winning in thier arse, your an unpaid rep, are you really that wealthy you can afford to do the job for nothing, or reality is with it being charity your the only idiot whos giving it time, if the rep was paid position youd be gone, but as your such an attention whore, your willing to do it as it gets you out there because your physique clearly aint good enough to talk about and those also ran would be pros in the PDI, heres a scoop for you, they would more than likely give you a run for your money based on your last show.
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I think most are missing the point on this, the sadest part of this whole thing is that two people in a relationship had to break it off because one was afraid of being blackballed out of her profession. What type of profession is that and who would want to be part of it? If I worked for Fed Ex and married a woman who worked at UPS, would I be fired? No, so why is it any different here.
Before Titus went crazy, he used to talk about this same thing where his comments were going to be held against Kelly and her placings. I guess the IFBB just wants to show who has the power! I hate it for Lee and Adela. They seemed so much in love in the interviews in MD and on his reality DVDs. Don't worry Lee, I've got huge respect for a person that speaks their mind and doesn't fear the consequences. I will continue to buy your DVDs no matter where you compete or even if you do. As a person who loves the art of bodybuilding and competing against my self to outdo my previous best condition and placing, I feel the exact opposite about the business side of it.
Why would anyone want to put theirselves through this BS and end up like Lee and Adela? Maybe to end up in the top spots like Ronnie and Jay, but that's two out of how many? I would like to see year-end earnings of every IFBB pro from last year. Every fan would be amazed and I guarantee very few people would take the same risks to turn pro that they are right now. As for Bob Chick, you are in a position that doesn't come with a salary, the people you represent don't respect the postion as evidenced by the turnout at athletes' meetings, and a postion that the IFBB doesn't respect as evidenced by your comment that Lee's request would fall on deaf ears.
You are however an sponsored athlete of AMI, who own the IFBB right? I know the Weiders are still supposed to be in charge, but come on Bob. As much as I will continue to support Lee by buying his DVD's and such, I won't come near anything that supports you. I don't even shop at Bodybuilding.com anymore. You have won one pro show, masters at that, and used to make fun of other pro's in the pages of Flex magazine. And somehow, someone put you in the position to represent those same athletes. Go figure
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Bob, I made sense for the first time ever, and you wouldn't answer. I'm a little bummed:
IMO, part of the atheltes rep job is to put it in writing, go over it with the lawyer, and submit it. Then, if and when it's rejected, go to your lawyer and ask what can be done to change the rule. If necessary, you sue the IFBB for limiting its athletes' earning power in a non-salaried sport.
I'll answer this for Bob because its obvious.
The IFBB Athletes Rep does not get paid for his work. Therefore in order to hire a lawyer, other people would need to chip in with the money. Filing a lawsuit would be fruitless as well. The IFBB is a business and its board of directors set the rules in place making it unlikely to be successful. A lawyer would not even touch the case.
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Vince,
I wold love to see your business card:
Vince Goodrum
Attorney at Law
Certified Nutritionist
COmpetitive Bodybuilder
Security Guard
Magic Stick/ Bee Pollen Expert
Poet Laureate/Scribe
Mouth piece for the IFBB
"you name it, I am it!"
You Da Man!
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I think when they send in their money for the card each year they sign something binding them the the IFBB pro division.
Chick is this true? Because if not, essentially a bodybuilder is a contractor and free to compete wherever he wants and 14:9 would get struck down in court correct?
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If Lee had made mention to me that he had a problem PRIOR to bailing out of the Olympia ...I couldv'e looked into it. He said he read it, understood it, signed it, and sent it in...THEN he changed his mind.
He must not have too big an issue with it, as he has stated he want'd to enter THIS years Olympia with the SAME contract
Bob i contacted the man in charge Robin Chang and got no response. If i remeber correctly, i did mention it Bob, maybe even on the radio show. You said you had not yet seen the contract and would take a look at it remember AND NEVER GOT BACK TO ME. But i don't blmae you - even the IFBB pro division leader Jim Manion didn't even know what was in it the Day of the show when i spoke to him.
Lee
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I think most are missing the point on this, the sadest part of this whole thing is that two people in a relationship had to break it off because one was afraid of being blackballed out of her profession. What type of profession is that and who would want to be part of it? If I worked for Fed Ex and married a woman who worked at UPS, would I be fired? No, so why is it any different here. Before Titus went crazy, he used to talk about this same thing where his comments were going to be held against Kelly and her placings. I guess the IFBB just wants to show who has the power! I hate it for Lee and Adela. They seemed so much in love in the interviews in MD and on his reality DVDs. Don't worry Lee, I've got huge respect for a person that speaks their mind and doesn't fear the consequences. I will continue to buy your DVDs no matter where you compete or even if you do. As a person who loves the art of bodybuilding and competing against my self to outdo my previous best condition and placing, I feel the exact opposite about the business side of it. Why would anyone want to put theirselves through this BS and end up like Lee and Adela? Maybe to end up in the top spots like Ronnie and Jay, but that's two out of how many? I would like to see year-end earnings of every IFBB pro from last year. Every fan would be amazed and I guarantee very few people would take the same risks to turn pro that they are right now. As for Bob Chick, you are in a position that doesn't come with a salary, the people you represent don't respect the postion as evidenced by the turnout at athletes' meetings, and a postion that the IFBB doesn't respect as evidenced by your comment that Lee's request would fall on deaf ears. You are however an sponsored athlete of AMI, who own the IFBB right? I know the Weiders are still supposed to be in charge, but come on Bob. As much as I will continue to support Lee by buying his DVD's and such, I won't come near anything that supports you. I don't even shop at Bodybuilding.com anymore. You have won one pro show, masters at that, and used to make fun of other pro's in the pages of Flex magazine. And somehow, someone put you in the position to represent those same athletes. Go figure
Nice post thank you.I hope you like the dvds the next one should be funny me at six flags wearing a superman cape i won. :)
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hey Vince Basile when you deposit checks at the bank do you sign them......Vince Basile Mr. Canada 1970?
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Chick is this true? Because if not, essentially a bodybuilder is a contractor and free to compete wherever he wants and 14:9 would get struck down in court correct?
Yes we are and keep getting reminded that we are INDEPENDANT CONTRACTORS.
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Yep. It's nice how they make the money in the US and transfer the funds to Canada. Smart but still sneaky.
Since the IFBB is supposedly a "non-profit" organization, where does all the American dollars go once they're in Canada?
All that tax-free income sure must be nice...
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Boxing did the same thing when the WBC and the WBA were the only show in town. Many boxers and promoters were feeling left so Bob Lee, who turned out to be a crook and is besides the point, started the IBF. Larry Holmes and Marvin Hagler were the first to jump ship and now the IFB is as powerful as any of the other organizations, if now more. If the PDI is run well and doesn't become a dumping ground for bb's who can't get recognized anywhere else than it's doomed, but if Vince and Lee honor their contractsAnd other big names who can't get placed in the IFBB compete in the PDI, as they should, than the PDI has fair ground to show the world what they can do. Precedent has been set and done well, so give the PDI a shot and stop the monopoly that the IFBB has over Pro Bodybuilding. The group Vince McMahon set up in the 80's was more geared to wrestling, not bodybuilding, so that will be one lesson learned.
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Chick is this true? Because if not, essentially a bodybuilder is a contractor and free to compete wherever he wants and 14:9 would get struck down in court correct?
Yes, when you sign and send in your renewel form...you agree to abide by the rules set forth by the IFBB.
We are considered "independant contractors", and are members of the Pro league which is a sub-division of the IFBB.
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Bob i contacted the man in charge Robin Chang and got no response.If i remeber correct i did mention it Bob maybe even on the radio show.You sadi you had not yet seen the contract and would take a look at it remember AND NEVER GOT BACK TO ME.But i don't blmae you even the IFBB pro division leader Jim Mnaion didn't even know what was in it the Day of the show when i spoke to him.
Lee
Yeah...I could be wrong, but I believe you were on AFTER you pulled out...other question is...why did you sign it and send it in if you had such a big problem with it?
Why are you willing to sign it THIS year...?
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Yes, when you sign and send in your renewel form...you agree to abide by the rules set forth by the IFBB.
We are considered "independant contractors", and are members of the Pro league which is a sub-division of the IFBB.
I don't understand how the IFBB can pay you as an "independant contractor" (in other words, NOT pay you), yet expect to exert the same control over you that an employer would, and limit your ability to earn outside income.
That would be like me hiring a plumber to do work on my house, and making him sign a contract not to do plumbing work for anyone else!
Legally, I understand how they're getting away with it, but morally it's not right and you know it! As athlete's rep you should be fighting what to any outside observer who hasn't drank the IFBB Koolaid is an obvious injustice.
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The IFBB is a sanctioning body... all they do is provide a platform to compete for prize money via the promoter. They don't "hire" anyone...you JOIN their club...thats the difference.
It would be more like the plumber volunteering to fix your sink on the premise that you would give him referrals to make money off of other jobs...your job would merely be a showcase of your talents.
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It would be more like the plumber volunteering to fix your sink on the premise that you would give him referrals to make money off of other jobs...your job would merely be a showcase of your talents.
But he wouldn't be allowed to do plumbing for anyone who doesn't pay me a "plumbing sanctioning fee?" ::)
I honestly don't know how you can defend this practice, Bob. :(
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Can we create a new board where 240 and Chick can carry on their conversations? ;D
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Chic,
I would like your honest opinion on the following:
What rules or what in general you dont agree with IFBB? You also said that there need to be changes can you say what you mean by that?
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Chic,
I would like your honest opinion on the following:
What rules or what in general you dont agree with IFBB? You also said that there need to be changes can you say what you mean by that?
Bob, after a hard fight, will get the IFBB to agree to change the towels in the pump room from green to blue, then come on here and act like he's Ceasar Chavez or something. ::)
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To "sarcasm" who asked: hey Vince Basile when you deposit checks at the bank do you sign them......Vince Basile Mr. Canada 1970?
My ex deposits all cheques. At least I don't sign my name "sarcasm". I so dislike the gutless use of alias names online. Would any of us go by another name in real life? No wonder there are so many jerks online.
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But he wouldn't be allowed to do plumbing for anyone who doesn't pay me a "plumbing sanctioning fee?" ::)
I honestly don't know how you can defend this practice, Bob. :(
I don't defend it...I explain it.
It's the same concept as not being allowed to play for the Yankees and the Mets at the same time, difference being, were not directly paid by the IFBB...you agree to abide by these rules when you sign up...if you don't like the rules , no one is forcing the athletes to join...they are free to go join any other federation in existence where they do allow athletes to compete where ever...
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As a plumber once told me, in order for him to get to the most lucrative contracts with the superstars, he was asked to join for the PFFP (Plumbers Federations of Fit Plumbers). It was his choice, and once he did, he got to work on a whole section of new housing that was being put up. Other plumbers that didnt sign didnt get a chance to be hired there. That simple.
Damn - have you ever joined a fraternity, a club, a group, an organization. Everyone has rules. We have been through this already. You can join one fraternity and then join another. Same with many places.
Hell, if you joined Bob Chick's team, who were sweating thier asses off, we werent allowed to even talk, as they were so serious in hitting that golf ball 300 yards. And Bob, it was only 340 yards, not 345. My golf cart's screen told me so!
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Just to be fair I want to point out that just because I am criticizing the IFBB here doesn't mean I support the other organization. From what I have seen so far they also have no clue about judging criteria and rules so I don't hold much hope that they will do things any different from the IFBB controversies.
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Chic,
I would like your honest opinion on the following:
What rules or what in general you don't agree with IFBB? You also said that there need to be changes can you say what you mean by that?
I don't agree with not being allowed to make appearances, guest posing, seminars, etc...at non-IFBB sanctioned events. I believe as "independent contractors", they (IFBB) cannot dictate that we cant make money outside the IFBB when they aren't compensating us.
I don't have as big an issue with competing in other federations simply for the fact that the best opportunities are within the IFBB as it is...I think as long as an IFBB athlete is representing the IFBB in good standing, in advertisements, and being billed as an IFBB athlete...I see no good reason to limit the earning power of a athlete that is supporting and sustaining, the IFBB.
I will be submitting this for consideration in the upcoming board of governors meeting on behalf of all IFBB athletes.
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I don't agree with not being allowed to make appearances, guest posing, seminars, etc...at non-IFBB sanctioned events. I believe as "independent contractors", they (IFBB) cannot dictate that we cant make money outside the IFBB when they aren't compensating us.
I don't have as big an issue with competing in other federations simply for the fact that the best opportunities are within the IFBB as it is...I think as long as an IFBB athlete is representing the IFBB in good standing, in advertisements, and being billed as an IFBB athlete...I see no good reason to limit the earning power of a athlete that is supporting and sustaining, the IFBB.
I will be submitting this for consideration in the upcoming board of governors meeting on behalf of all IFBB athletes.
Thank you.
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As a plumber once told me, in order for him to get to the most lucrative contracts with the superstars, he was asked to join for the PFFP (Plumbers Federations of Fit Plumbers). It was his choice, and once he did, he got to work on a whole section of new housing that was being put up. Other plumbers that didnt sign didnt get a chance to be hired there. That simple.
Damn - have you ever joined a fraternity, a club, a group, an organization. Everyone has rules. We have been through this already. You can join one fraternity and then join another. Same with many places.
Hell, if you joined Bob Chick's team, who were sweating thier asses off, we werent allowed to even talk, as they were so serious in hitting that golf ball 300 yards. And Bob, it was only 340 yards, not 345. My golf cart's screen told me so!
Ahhhhh..thats where your lack of Golf knowledge has you at a disadvantage my sunburned friend...the screen measures the distance to the MIDDLE of the green...my ball was at the BACK of the green, easily 5 yds. plus.
NO TALKING when on the tee box, Ron!!!
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I don't agree with not being allowed to make appearances, guest posing, seminars, etc...at non-IFBB sanctioned events. I believe as "independent contractors", they (IFBB) cannot dictate that we cant make money outside the IFBB when they aren't compensating us.
I don't have as big an issue with competing in other federations simply for the fact that the best opportunities are within the IFBB as it is...I think as long as an IFBB athlete is representing the IFBB in good standing, in advertisements, and being billed as an IFBB athlete...I see no good reason to limit the earning power of a athlete that is supporting and sustaining, the IFBB.
I will be submitting this for consideration in the upcoming board of governors meeting on behalf of all IFBB athletes.
Sounds good to me.
Don't take 'NO' for an answer!
(let me know if you need some arms twisted...)
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I won an IFBB title and had to join then to compete. Everyone does that because it is required. That doesn't mean I am an IFBB anything. The contest was sanctioned by the IFBB and they were the only ones then running the Mr Canada contest in those days. Why should anyone have to be loyal to an organization just because they run contests? If you scratch beneath the surface you will see the agenda and control of Ben and Joe Weider. They have a history of competing with others in the past so came up with a strategy to dominate the bodybuilding scene. You have to admit they sure know how bodybuilders behave and have controlled them like the little boys they are. In the old days if you had a big physique you were supposed to have courage and be able to speak your mind. What a pathetic situation we have today in our sad sport. Just about everyone is afraid to say much at all. Of course some post under pseudonyms so they can speak out. We really have to praise Lee Priest and Milos Sarcev for speaking their minds. Any attempt to suppress opinions on open discussion boards is something the IFBB and reps should be ashamed of. What have they got to hide or be afraid of if they are doing the right thing?
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Just to add a point here about speaking out. Chick speaks his mind. I think many might he more interested in what he has to say if he gave his opinion instead of what the IFBB thinks about matters. The idea that one should say only things endorsed by the IFBB is not something I support. I think for myself and am responsible for what I say.
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Darn it, I can't put my finger on it, but like Ron said, if this IFBB crock of Chit is like joining a frat, then it's basically the same bullshit politics. No Health insurance, no retirement plan, no residuals from any use of the pro's pics and on top of it, they want exclusivity over the athletes and probably require them to pay a fee to be a member of the organization. Sounds like the IFBB runs a scam similar to pimping. Poor pros are just whores of the industry. Take off your shirt, pose for the camera, appear here, make the
tricksfans happy.
Shame..
P.S. The pros are becoming nothing more than overglorified, yet underpaid musclebears...
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Just to add a point here about speaking out. Chick speaks his mind. I think many might he more interested in what he has to say if he gave his opinion instead of what the IFBB thinks about matters. The idea that one should say only things endorsed by the IFBB is not something I support. I think for myself and am responsible for what I say.
Vince, I liked your previous comments about the industry. With regards to Chick, I think what he is, is a smart business man. He knows who pays the bills, who will decide what contests you win and so forth, so he is doing the one thing everyone in the IFBB should be doing and that is looking out for themselves. I commend Lee for being a voice among the many sheep and doing whatever the hell he wants. I say screw the rules...
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Darn it, I can't put my finger on it, but like Ron said, if this IFBB crock of Chit is like joining a frat, then it's basically the same bullshit politics. No Health insurance, no retirement plan, no residuals from any use of the pro's pics and on top of it, they want exclusivity over the athletes and probably require them to pay a fee to be a member of the organization. Sounds like the IFBB runs a scam similar to pimping. Poor pros are just whores of the industry. Take off your shirt, pose for the camera, appear here, make the tricksfans happy.
Shame..
Well, not exactly. Lets not discount the fact that many pro's have endorsement contracts and have made a great living from being a pro bodybuilder...as a direct result of competing in the NPC/ IFBB.
No different than any other sport...the better athletes will command the bigger contracts, the ones
who don't make the cut will fall by the wayside or have to balance working and pursuing their goal...until they "make it".
This is no different then playing baseball in the minor league's...making bupkis for money, traveling by bus, staying in cheap hotels...all in the pursuit of making the big leagues and the big dollar.
The biggest difference is that this is still COMPETITION, not a 9-5 job...so there is no use comparing the two.
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"must show adequate reason to not compete..."
Talk about open ended...! Adequate to who?
Yeah, I don't think Black's Law Dictionary has an entry for "adequate".
But the point is moot. If Wayne doesn't have enough money to pay for a real e-mail account, he doesn't have enough money to hire a lawyer to sue Vince for breach of contract.
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Yeah, I don't think Black's Law Dictionary has an entry for "adequate".
But the point is moot. If Wayne doesn't have enough money to pay for a real e-mail account, he doesn't have enough money to hire a lawyer to sue Vince for breach of contract.
Wayne in no way, shape or form will sue Vince Taylor...
A. Vince has no money to go after
B. The contract language is so grey, it would never stand
C. Vince never sent in the required fee
D. (and most importantly)
It would be a P.R. nightmare for Wayne to sue/ suspend, etc...when the very subject he takes the most heat for is/ was suspending and fining athletes when he was with the IFBB...He is alledgedly looking out for the athleets best interests, you think sueing a guy that is struggling to make ends meet would look good and set a example of things to come?
Wayne best move would be to wish Vince the best, and say the door is always open for a return...
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Just to add a point here about speaking out. Chick speaks his mind. I think many might he more interested in what he has to say if he gave his opinion instead of what the IFBB thinks about matters. The idea that one should say only things endorsed by the IFBB is not something I support. I think for myself and am responsible for what I say.
Just finished reading this thread and your posts stand out, Vince. Your background and insight, thereof, allow you to make some cogent points. All your criticisms of the IFBB as well as bb in general, both positive and negative, are so filled with common sense that it is sad to see them go without any real response or acknowledgement. Alas, anyone who posts here on Getbig quickly realizes that the IFBB rep., Bob Chick, will always ignore such intelligent posts and will spend his time trading barbs with those in the 'peanut gallery' on silly minutiae. BB is truly a 'sick man' (perhaps a vegetative state is a better analogy) and those like Bob Chick, who ignore calls to change its present nature or try to distract the masses with sophistry (two basic strategies of repressive gov'ts - see the parallel?) do it no service. Sad.
/Keep up the good fight, Vince. There are some of us out here who refuse to be fooled.
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Vince B,
Your posts make a lot of sense.
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Well, not exactly. Lets not discount the fact that many pro's have endorsement contracts and have made a great living from being a pro bodybuilder...as a direct result of competing in the NPC/ IFBB.
No different than any other sport...the better athletes will command the bigger contracts, the ones
who don't make the cut will fall by the wayside or have to balance working and pursuing their goal...until they "make it".
This is no different then playing baseball in the minor league's...making bupkis for money, traveling by bus, staying in cheap hotels...all in the pursuit of making the big leagues and the big dollar.
The biggest difference is that this is still COMPETITION, not a 9-5 job...so there is no use comparing the two.
1. Contrary to popular belief, the NPC/IFBB don't have a lock on pro bodybuilding. Other federations have pro's making a living from it.
2. Agreed
3. Totally disagree. The majority of the pros travel by bus/plane, stay in cheap motels. With all the talk of how great the IFBB is, one would think that the IFBB IS the big league. So where is the Big $$? (hint: it aint in the athlete's pockets, It's in the Weider's pockets)
4. Thank you Bob for you insight however misguided it is.
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Wayne in no way, shape or form will sue Vince Taylor...
A. Vince has no money to go after
B. The contract language is so grey, it would never stand
C. Vince never sent in the required fee
D. (and most importantly)
It would be a P.R. nightmare for Wayne to sue/ suspend, etc...when the very subject he takes the most heat for is/ was suspending and fining athletes when he was with the IFBB...He is alledgedly looking out for the athleets best interests, you think sueing a guy that is struggling to make ends meet would look good and set a example of things to come?
Wayne best move would be to wish Vince the best, and say the door is always open for a return...
Chick...no one knows Vince's financial status but Vince himself.... for Wayne to sue Vince he would have to show "damages/loss of revenue". At this point there aren't any.
As for Vince's future with a supplement company and/or business ventures I'm sure there will be a press release in the near future.
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As for Vince's future with a supplement company...I'm sure there will be a press release in the near future.
I hear there's a slot open at Gamma-O. :)
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3. Totally disagree. The majority of the pros travel by bus/plane, stay in cheap motels. With all the talk of how great the IFBB is, one would think that the IFBB IS the big league. So where is the Big $$? (hint: it aint in the athlete's pockets, It's in the Weider's pockets)
b-i-n-g-o
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I forgot to mention Keith Jones as another guy who is brave enough to tell it like it is. I remember Dave Draper being in the magazines all the time in the 60's. Well, he wasn't paid enough by the Weiders and was going to take them to court for compensation. Dave apparently settled before the court case for way less than he deserved. Just another guy who should have made more out of the sport. If stars like Dave and Sergio made peanuts then what about the rest of the guys? Zabo knew there was no pot of gold for most guys. Arnold made most of his money from real estate then the movies and not bodybuilding.
I look at the big guys in the gyms doing their thing and being he-men. However, when they compete they kiss butt big time because they know that is required. I think it is pathetic. In Australia we have Paul Graham running things like Ben does in Canada. I tell guys from my gym to say they train anywhere but at my gym if they want to do well in Paul's contests. Paul scored me 25 out of 100 in 1975 in my last contest. Arnold put me down, too. Jerks like them succeeded despite what they did to others while those of us who were honest struggled to make a living. I will never kiss butt and I always tell the truth. I detest distorting or trying to change reality. I also insist on justice and fairness in my dealings and expect that from others but am often let down or disappointed.
In the sport of bodybuilding look at what Joe and Ben have done to the sport. Joe and Bob Hoffman used to write glowing editorials about how great they were. I haven't been impressed by the legacy either has left. Arnold owes bodybuilding for making a name for himself but has done almost nothing for the sport. Who would have imagined that Dianabol would be a banned drug like heroin? What on earth are those dopes who make laws thinking? On the other hand no amount of legislation is going to rid drugs from bodybuilding if we let the IFBB do what they do. They are terrified of anyone else taking over the sport. That is why they will be ruthless. They have done bad things in the past to Dan Lurie and others. So what is going to prevent them from sabotaging Wayne's effort. Surely bodybuilders deserve something better for all the training and sacrifices they make. I don't mean in monetary terms. Just prestige and fairness and rewards for building muscle. As long as we reward those with breasts and no muscle in their calves then we deserve what we get. I say we should overthrow the IFBB and start again. However, look at most bodybuilders today. They are so meek and trained they don't say boo. In 1975 I voiced an opinion at the Mr Australia contest that Roger Walker had already won and shouldn't be able to win again. They set that precedent in America so that John Grimek wouldn't win every year. Not one person backed me up. Arnold was there and spoke out against me. What a jerk. He and Paul Graham fixed the contest by voting me so low that I placed last. I am still not happy about what they did then. Neither has ever apologized.
So I well know the disappointment that many feel when losing contests or placing far below what they deserve. I predicted what would happen to Bev Francis but she abandoned us and did her own thing to get a trip to go to America. The lesson of Bev is that this sport involves politics. Arnold knew that and quickly became buddies with all the judges and did shows for them, etc. In 1980 those same judges placed him first in Australia at the Olympia. Arnold was smart. He knew what was required to win. Namely, you had to get the judges vote and often you can help do that in many ways. Befriend them, or help the promoter choose the judges! Heck, what am I talking about. I helped choose the judges in the Mr Canada contest I won in 1970. I picked guys who were my enemies as well. They didn't put me first but the criteria of selection was to pick guys who were experienced and who could make up their own minds about who should win and not be influenced by other judges. I made sure there were enough judges and we had 13 in that show. I got 8 votes and Ken who came second got 5 votes. Some people booed when the result was announced and I could understand that. Ken Rivard had a superior upper body but his legs let him down. I got the vote of Chuck Sipes who posed that night so I felt okay. Oh, I forgot to say I took Chuck to the beach on the day either before or on the contest day. Ah, I guess I did stuff like Arnold did. Sort of funny now. I still haven't heard anyone who won a contest say they didn't deserve it.
Thanks to the guys here who appreciate some of what I have been saying.
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Thanks Vince. I just don't like the way either bigger guys take advantage of little guys or big companies take advantage of little companies. And I especially hate it when people who are in charge hide behind others that do there dirty work. That pisses me off more than anything. Be a man and take hits along with the praises. I hate it how Weider hides and Manion hides. I like how Chic speaks his mind most of the time but I totally disagree with his loyalty. That association with people like that reflect on your own personality and persona. And the worst thing is he doesn't get paid and if he does and just doesn't tell us it isn't worth it.
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I think there have been fewer organised conspiracies than many people think in regards to the IFBB (and I think they are a bunch of assholes trust me).
A lot of what has appeared covert has been more due to laziness and a general "we don't give a shit" attitude about training judges properly and the like which is sad.
Having said that bodybuilders need to think for themselves and not be so naive as to expect the federation to look after them. There just simply isn't the money in this sport for that to happen.
If football was a fringe sport do you think they'd be a powerful player's union or as many benefits as there are? no way jose...
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Wayne in no way, shape or form will sue Vince Taylor...
A. Vince has no money to go after
B. The contract language is so grey, it would never stand
C. Vince never sent in the required fee
D. (and most importantly)
It would be a P.R. nightmare for Wayne to sue/ suspend, etc...when the very subject he takes the most heat for is/ was suspending and fining athletes when he was with the IFBB...He is alledgedly looking out for the athleets best interests, you think sueing a guy that is struggling to make ends meet would look good and set a example of things to come?
Wayne best move would be to wish Vince the best, and say the door is always open for a return...
exactly what i said yesterday when i read that "contract"
wayne won't do shit to vince...
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Yeah...I could be wrong, but I believe you were on AFTER you pulled out...other question is...why did you sign it and send it in if you had such a big problem with it?
Why are you willing to sign it THIS year...?
HELLO MCFLY WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ?YOU HAVE ASKED THAT BEFORE AND I HAVE ANSWERED MANY TIMES.gO BACK AND READ :)
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I don't defend it...I explain it.
It's the same concept as not being allowed to play for the Yankees and the Mets at the same time, difference being, were not directly paid by the IFBB...you agree to abide by these rules when you sign up...if you don't like the rules , no one is forcing the athletes to join...they are free to go join any other federation in existence where they do allow athletes to compete where ever...
NO THE YANKEES OR THE METS PAY THEIR PLAYERS.WHAT DOES THE IFBB PAY US MONTHLY OR WEEKLY $000000
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Yes?
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One thing's for shure...
Lee always shows up in shape.
(http://www.martinwildig.com/pictures/martymcfly_1.jpg)
YIP
Zack
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I don't defend it...I explain it.
It's the same concept as not being allowed to play for the Yankees and the Mets at the same time, difference being, were not directly paid by the IFBB...you agree to abide by these rules when you sign up...if you don't like the rules , no one is forcing the athletes to join...they are free to go join any other federation in existence where they do allow athletes to compete where ever...
Big difference... the Yankees PAY their players, and are their employer. The analogy doesn't hold water. Federations who do not provide their members with an income should have no right to limit their memembers' income from other sources. The whole "you're free to join or not join" sounds good in theory, but when the reality is you have to compete in the IFBB to make a living due to their monopoly practices, the "freedom" doesn't really exist, does it? Kinda like the old AT&T told everyone "you're free to buy phone service from us or anyone else or not" back when they were a monopoly, and right before they got broken up in an anti-trust ruling.
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One thing's for shure...
Lee always shows up in shape.
YIP
Zack
shure about that? "always"? 15th at the 2003 Olympia...
;D
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shure about that? "always"? 15th at the 2003 Olympia...
Needed a haircut.
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shure about that? "always"? 15th at the 2003 Olympia...
;D
low blow... aside from that appearance lee has been a fantastically conditioned guy for the last 12-13 years
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HELLO MCFLY WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ?YOU HAVE ASKED THAT BEFORE AND I HAVE ANSWERED MANY TIMES.gO BACK AND READ :)
why should we take you serious, you joked about a innocent woman burned in a car
what if that happen to your daughter, and i laughed ::)
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Needed a haircut.
his long hair creates the illusion of his legs being smooth
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Remember something...the guys that came in 16th and lower WISH they were in that shape. Keep it in proper perspective. The one thing about being a TOP BB is that your judged on your last BEST shape and always expected to be better.
For example...If Ronnie did not show up in HIS best shape BUT still better than Jay and Jay shows up improving his last shape BUT NOT better than Ronnie some would give the title to jay. That is ridiculous.
Anyway, I know you were just pointing out something but he wasn't off season like just not as good as other shows.
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why should we take you serious, you joked about a innocent woman burned in a car
what if that happen to your daughter, and i laughed ::)
Why don't you get a sense of humor? Who cares if an innocent woman dies in a burning car, sergeant slaughter? If you're a soldier, you know that the U.S. Military kills thousands of innocent people and although a tragedy, I laugh at that shit too.
Laugh, it's good for you...
1
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NICE POST 8) Go ahead and answer PUPPET MASTER CHICK ;D STOP DELETING MY POST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS :P
It was answered 3 pages ago, genius...
Re: Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia
« Reply #272 on: July 17, 2006, 10:37:18 PM »
Quote Modify Remove
Quote from: OneMoreRep on July 17, 2006, 10:09:56 PM
Chic,
Some other guy in here asked these questions, how about you answer?
CHic since you are the IFBB rep answer these;
1. What kind of retirement fund does the IFBB provide or have in place for their members
A. none
2. What kind of insurance does the IFBB provide
A. none...the Athletes rep has secured Group Health Ins. for IFBB members who wan't it.
3. What is the minimum pay in the IFBB
A. There is no pay, as a member you are listed as an independant contractor
4. What kind of legal representation does the IFBB provide each member in case of non-payment or any other issue reagrding competition, sponsorship etc.
A. the IFBB has legal consul which can be used for such purposes, other than that, athletes can contact their rep for solutions to problems.
5. What sponsorhsips do the IFBB provide the members
A. none directly... indirectly,they offer a platform and exposure via their magazines which have led to many athletes securing contracts including myself.
6. How many IFBB pros are on the Board of Directors
A. no active members that I know of.
7. Who are the regional representatives for the IFBB members or are youtheir only rep worldwide
A. there is no need for "regional" reps...there is one for each respective division.
8. Does the IFBB provide insurance to it's members when on photo shoots or any other apperance where they are representing the IFBB.
A. The IFBB does not provide insurance, Insurance is available via the PTA in accordance with the business deal set up with the athletes rep on behalf of the IFBB athletes.
9. When is the voting for the Board of Directors
A. Don't know
10. Since the IFBB doesn't allow members to make money outside of IFBB sponsored events, do they pay the members anything to offset what they are missing out at shows they could be working or appearing.
A. no
11. Does the IFBB pay the members who appear in magazines for their likeness.
A. No, Weider/AMI does.
12. What type of profit-sharing does the IFBB offer its members
A. None...last I knew the IFBB is a non profit organization.
13. What kind of residual payments do IFBB members get for use of their pictures or likeness in publications, tapes, DVD or other material. And if not, does the IFBB provide a tracking system for the members so that they can track their usage and charge whoever accordingly
A. none, the IFBB doesn't have a publication, sell tapes or DVD's.
14. I know their is a rule in the IFFB rules stating no drug use. DO the have an annual date they test all the members or do they provide the cost of testing to each member so they can get tested. How do they enforce this rule. (P.S. we all knwo they put this rule in only so that organizations like the IOC would even talk to them. There was never any intention to enforce it. It was put in place to fullfill certain requirements by other federations and organizations)
A. Guess you already have the answer
I'll fire the same questions back to you, Keith...just insert "PDI" where IFBB is.
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I don't agree on with Bob on everything (some yes, some no) but I have to applaud his patience on these boards sometimes...
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I'll fire the same questions back to you, Keith...just insert "PDI" where IFBB is.
Moral relativism at its best. *sigh* You need to look into taking a course in logic from the Jesuits, Chick. It'll put some real backbone in your arguments. People may still think you are full of it, but your chain of reason will at least be compulsive.
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It was answered 3 pages ago, genius...
Re: Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia
« Reply #272 on: July 17, 2006, 10:37:18 PM »
Quote Modify Remove
Quote from: OneMoreRep on July 17, 2006, 10:09:56 PM
Chic,
I'll fire the same questions back to you, Keith...just insert "PDI" where IFBB is.
My answsers are allot easier than yours to type. NO for all. But you have say the PDI does not have the bad image of ripping off their members or giving a false illusion of grandjeur. Yet at least. Hopefully never but..................... .
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Moral relativism at its best. *sigh* You need to look into taking a course in logic from the Jesuits, Chick.
A classic case of "ego sum purgamentum" reasoning - i.e. "I'm rubber and you're glue..."
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Joe and Bob Hoffman used to write glowing editorials about how great they were.
No, they did not. They were bitter enemies until the end. lots of articles at MuscleMemory (http://www.musclememory.com/articles/)
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No, they did not. They were bitter enemies until the end. lots of articles at MuscleMemory (http://www.musclememory.com/articles/)
I think you misread that tim.
he says they both wrote glowing articles about how good they themselves were not how great each other was...
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I have to applaud his patience on these boards sometimes...
Agreed. Bob does take a beating here and he still sticks around. I give him props for that. Most other pros would have tucked their tail and ran for the hills by now.
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Isn't the IFBB Democratic,I am sure they have judges from all over the world judge Mr Olympia and of cause they are all Pro Judges and hold a Pro judging card just like the athletes have to.Don't they????.
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I think you misread that tim.
he says they both wrote glowing articles about how good they themselves were not how great each other was...
oh. never mind.
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jwb got it right about the editorials Joe and Bob used to write or had written for them. Joe was so egotistical that he would be booed when introduced at contests. Bill Reynolds told me Joe was bothered by that booing and wondered why they booed him. I met both guys and Bob almost kicked me out of the York gym back in 1965 because I told him I wasn't impressed by his appearance. He took off his shirt and after many seconds did a vacuum pose. The next day John Terpak told me to keep my mouth shut or I wouldn't be welcome in that gym. Jules Bacon told me later not to take what was said too seriously. I guess they all knew what Bob was like. I met Joe once after the 1980 Olympia and he seemed okay to me. He said people accused him of fixing his contests but everyone who won was his champion. I think he was fair dinkum. Ben was responsible for the IFBB and Joe more with publishing his magazines. I am sure they are both intelligent men and would be very interesting to meet and talk to.
I like the way Chick speaks his mind. However, he does a lot of posturing and attempts to control the behaviour of others by quoting the company line of the IFBB. He loves whatever power he has or believes he has. Given how meek bodybuilders are I doubt anyone should feel elated at being the rep for the pros. If Chick is candid he should recognize he is not that highly respected for his position. Sure it is a thankless job but he seems more concerned with impressing the IFBB executives than representing each and every professional bodybuilder. His comments to Lee Priest amount to a complete abandonment of Lee. What else can anyone make of Chick's comments to Lee?
If Chick truly believes professional bodybuilders do not earn enough to make a decent living then he should be doing all that he can to facilitate the capacity and ability to earn more money and that includes competing for monies. Bodybuilding at the professional level is like boxing. The competitors are not allowed to compete in unsanctioned contests. There is an exception and that is when they have a contest between two champions from different groups. Why does Chick support the IFBB on this issue when it is clear the majority of readers here do not? If you are going to be a political person then at least be sensitive to what most approve and disapprove of.
The bottom line is simple to see. Bodybuilders are struggling to make a living from the sport and the IFBB cannot provide for many of them in any way.
I will say what I hinted at in a previous post. The IFBB has always been afraid that the best bodybuilders will go elsewhere if they were not happy. In 1981 5 of the top guys boycotted that Olympia and a second rate Franco won. There was nowhere else to go to compete and by then the Mr Olympia was THE contest to win. Somehow even the Mr Universe was not that important. This really is ironic. Who knows who is out there in this absolutely huge universe? Bodybuilders might go elsewhere to try to make some money but they all dream of winning the Olympia so the IFBB need have no fear that they will lose what they have. This same fear has prevented the IFBB from doing serious drug testing. How difficult would it be for them to do random tests several times each year of the guys who qualify to compete? Joe and Ben made millions out of the sport. They could easily donate money to a fund that will pay for this testing. Heck, they could buy a whole lab! Until we have this strict testing bodybuilding is dead. End of story. Now how smart does anyone have to be to figure this out? Huh, anyone? I keep shaking my head. The public will be interested when full and honest testing is done. That includes testing for synthol and inserts. That goes for the women, too. It is possible to get the public to support pure bodybuilding. When that happens the money will come in and it will be a totally different sport and we won't have pathetic threads like this one!
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jwb got it right about the editorials Joe and Bob used to write or had written for them. Joe was so egotistical that he would be booed when introduced at contests. Bill Reynolds told me Joe was bothered by that booing and wondered why they booed him. I met both guys and Bob almost kicked me out of the York gym back in 1965 because I told him I wasn't impressed by his appearance. He took off his shirt and after many seconds did a vacuum pose. The next day John Terpak told me to keep my mouth shut or I wouldn't be welcome in that gym. Jules Bacon told me later not to take what was said too seriously. I guess they all knew what Bob was like. I met Joe once after the 1980 Olympia and he seemed okay to me. He said people accused him of fixing his contests but everyone who won was his champion. I think he was fair dinkum. Ben was responsible for the IFBB and Joe more with publishing his magazines. I am sure they are both intelligent men and would be very interesting to meet and talk to.
I like the way Chick speaks his mind. However, he does a lot of posturing and attempts to control the behaviour of others by quoting the company line of the IFBB. He loves whatever power he has or believes he has. Given how meek bodybuilders are I doubt anyone should feel elated at being the rep for the pros. If Chick is candid he should recognize he is not that highly respected for his position. Sure it is a thankless job but he seems more concerned with impressing the IFBB executives than representing each and every professional bodybuilder. His comments to Lee Priest amount to a complete abandonment of Lee. What else can anyone make of Chick's comments to Lee?
If Chick truly believes professional bodybuilders do not earn enough to make a decent living then he should be doing all that he can to facilitate the capacity and ability to earn more money and that includes competing for monies. Bodybuilding at the professional level is like boxing. The competitors are not allowed to compete in unsanctioned contests. There is an exception and that is when they have a contest between two champions from different groups. Why does Chick support the IFBB on this issue when it is clear the majority of readers here do not? If you are going to be a political person then at least be sensitive to what most approve and disapprove of.
The bottom line is simple to see. Bodybuilders are struggling to make a living from the sport and the IFBB cannot provide for many of them in any way.
I will say what I hinted at in a previous post. The IFBB has always been afraid that the best bodybuilders will go elsewhere if they were not happy. In 1981 5 of the top guys boycotted that Olympia and a second rate Franco won. There was nowhere else to go to compete and by then the Mr Olympia was THE contest to win. Somehow even the Mr Universe was not that important. This really is ironic. Who knows who is out there in this absolutely huge universe? Bodybuilders might go elsewhere to try to make some money but they all dream of winning the Olympia so the IFBB need have no fear that they will lose what they have. This same fear has prevented the IFBB from doing serious drug testing. How difficult would it be for them to do random tests several times each year of the guys who qualify to compete? Joe and Ben made millions out of the sport. They could easily donate money to a fund that will pay for this testing. Heck, they could buy a whole lab! Until we have this strict testing bodybuilding is dead. End of story. Now how smart does anyone have to be to figure this out? Huh, anyone? I keep shaking my head. The public will be interested when full and honest testing is done. That includes testing for synthol and inserts. That goes for the women, too. It is possible to get the public to support pure bodybuilding. When that happens the money will come in and it will be a totally different sport and we won't have pathetic threads like this one!
You seem to profess you know how I think and what others think about me...funny, I don't remember seeing you in any of the meetings, or at any of the shows...just what exactly do you know?
Why don't you list all I've done for the athlete's since you seem to know...?
The public doesn't give a rats ass about testing...no more than they care about baseball players being tested...you see any drop in attendance?
There is more money in bodybuilding today than at any other time in history. More guys are making a living bodybuilding, and have endorsement contracts than at any other time in history...There were more people in atendance at the Olympia this past year, than at any other time in history.
This aint 1974 anymore, Mr. Canada...times have changed.
Quit talking about what *I* say, do, or think...you don't know me.
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jwb got it right about the editorials Joe and Bob used to write or had written for them. Joe was so egotistical that he would be booed when introduced at contests. Bill Reynolds told me Joe was bothered by that booing and wondered why they booed him. I met both guys and Bob almost kicked me out of the York gym back in 1965 because I told him I wasn't impressed by his appearance. He took off his shirt and after many seconds did a vacuum pose. The next day John Terpak told me to keep my mouth shut or I wouldn't be welcome in that gym. Jules Bacon told me later not to take what was said too seriously. I guess they all knew what Bob was like. I met Joe once after the 1980 Olympia and he seemed okay to me. He said people accused him of fixing his contests but everyone who won was his champion. I think he was fair dinkum. Ben was responsible for the IFBB and Joe more with publishing his magazines. I am sure they are both intelligent men and would be very interesting to meet and talk to.
I like the way Chick speaks his mind. However, he does a lot of posturing and attempts to control the behaviour of others by quoting the company line of the IFBB. He loves whatever power he has or believes he has. Given how meek bodybuilders are I doubt anyone should feel elated at being the rep for the pros. If Chick is candid he should recognize he is not that highly respected for his position. Sure it is a thankless job but he seems more concerned with impressing the IFBB executives than representing each and every professional bodybuilder. His comments to Lee Priest amount to a complete abandonment of Lee. What else can anyone make of Chick's comments to Lee?
If Chick truly believes professional bodybuilders do not earn enough to make a decent living then he should be doing all that he can to facilitate the capacity and ability to earn more money and that includes competing for monies. Bodybuilding at the professional level is like boxing. The competitors are not allowed to compete in unsanctioned contests. There is an exception and that is when they have a contest between two champions from different groups. Why does Chick support the IFBB on this issue when it is clear the majority of readers here do not? If you are going to be a political person then at least be sensitive to what most approve and disapprove of.
The bottom line is simple to see. Bodybuilders are struggling to make a living from the sport and the IFBB cannot provide for many of them in any way.
I will say what I hinted at in a previous post. The IFBB has always been afraid that the best bodybuilders will go elsewhere if they were not happy. In 1981 5 of the top guys boycotted that Olympia and a second rate Franco won. There was nowhere else to go to compete and by then the Mr Olympia was THE contest to win. Somehow even the Mr Universe was not that important. This really is ironic. Who knows who is out there in this absolutely huge universe? Bodybuilders might go elsewhere to try to make some money but they all dream of winning the Olympia so the IFBB need have no fear that they will lose what they have. This same fear has prevented the IFBB from doing serious drug testing. How difficult would it be for them to do random tests several times each year of the guys who qualify to compete? Joe and Ben made millions out of the sport. They could easily donate money to a fund that will pay for this testing. Heck, they could buy a whole lab! Until we have this strict testing bodybuilding is dead. End of story. Now how smart does anyone have to be to figure this out? Huh, anyone? I keep shaking my head. The public will be interested when full and honest testing is done. That includes testing for synthol and inserts. That goes for the women, too. It is possible to get the public to support pure bodybuilding. When that happens the money will come in and it will be a totally different sport and we won't have pathetic threads like this one!
I truly respect though and opinions, Vince. A lot of people can learn a lot from your wisdom.
However, times have changed my friend. Bodybuilders who market themselves right are making a lot of money these day. The health industry is booming and with a simple PT certification, any bodybuilder or person in great shape can make a decent living.
I do however thank people like you who did make it possible for this to happen. Without people like you building the foundation, it would be a much different story
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This aint 1974 anymore, Mr. Canada...times have changed.
Wow.
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Wow.
Chick was harsh but he's right. Its a different world from the 60's and 70's
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I think Vince realizes that times have changed but in essence they haven't because the athletes still(can) make or break the IFBB. What he is saying is that the athletes need to have some balls and make a stand.l
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Wow.
ahahhahah chick own that tiny twat, ur next ;D
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Yeah Arnold is not around stolen cars. ;D
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To Chick. I can talk about what you post on these discussion boards. Sorry if anything I said was inaccurate or caused you to be upset. I won in 1970. Those days weren't so good. The IFBB was the only organization in Canada and that remained true for a long time.
You are mistaken about the public and drugs in bodybuilding. Where have you been? I happen to own a gym and have done so since 1971. It is a big gym and better than anything owned by Joe Gold. I also design and build better equipment than Joe did. That is no big deal.
Here is how it works, Chick, regarding drugs. You guys that use a lot of these drugs obviously feel defensive about it all. Heck I used some Dianabol and am not proud to admit it. I used maybe 3 bottles of those pills on three occasions. That is about 10 bottles all up. I would be proud if I could say I never used those drugs. I didn't use any for over 11 years in the sport. I haven't used any since 1977 and won't.
Now forget about me for a moment and let us look at what the public believes re bodybuilders like yourself. They all assume you needed dangerous drugs to build those big muscles. Are they mistaken? Nope. That is the truth. There have been guys who have built good physiques drugfree but they were guys from way back even before my time. Since 1965 most champions have used some anabolic steroids. Even Arnold claims he didn't use what even the women use today! So how is the public going to be impressed with those big muscles if they are built using substances banned by the Olympic movement? If professional athletes are caught using these drugs they face bans and disqualification. At the professional level in bodybuilding that doesn't happen. So the public conclude that the sport is a dark and pathetic one. There is no need for anyone to be jealous of those big muscles because to get them you have to be nuts and you have to break the law and cheat to get that big. That is what the public and media believe. Are they mistaken? When you can convince the public that the sport is safe and clean you will get lots of interest. We bodybuilders have always been looked down on by the public. They always had to find an excuse to not accept our superiority in physiques. So they concluded we were conceited and mere mirror athletes. Then some accused us of being muscle bound. Others said we were gay and most bodybuilders must be dumb as well. Not a pretty picture. Nowadays many still have those misconceptions of bodybuilding but have the ultimate reason to reject those who have big muscles. We are all cheaters and must be foolish to risk our health using those dangerous drugs. We lost Ray and Mike Mentzer and several other top champions who died at what are young ages. Ray was 47. That is a tragedy. We have to eliminate drugs from the sport. If it means that a generation of bodybuilders will miss out then that is the price the sport will have to pay. It has gone too far. Men with breasts are winning masculine contests. Guys with no discernible muscle in their calves are winning the Olympia. Now you accuse me of being irrelevant and out of touch! The IFBB should be ashamed of itself.
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To Chick. I can talk about what you post on these discussion boards. Sorry if anything I said was inaccurate or caused you to be upset. I won in 1970. Those days weren't so good. The IFBB was the only organization in Canada and that remained true for a long time.
You are mistaken about the public and drugs in bodybuilding. Where have you been? I happen to own a gym and have done so since 1971. It is a big gym and better than anything owned by Joe Gold. I also design and build better equipment than Joe did. That is no big deal.
Here is how it works, Chick, regarding drugs. You guys that use a lot of these drugs obviously feel defensive about it all. Heck I used some Dianabol and am not proud to admit it. I used maybe 3 bottles of those pills on three occasions. That is about 10 bottles all up. I would be proud if I could say I never used those drugs. I didn't use any for over 11 years in the sport. I haven't used any since 1977 and won't.
Now forget about me for a moment and let us look at what the public believes re bodybuilders like yourself. They all assume you needed dangerous drugs to build those big muscles. Are they mistaken? Nope. That is the truth. There have been guys who have built good physiques drugfree but they were guys from way back even before my time. Since 1965 most champions have used some anabolic steroids. Even Arnold claims he didn't use what even the women use today! So how is the public going to be impressed with those big muscles if they are built using substances banned by the Olympic movement? If professional athletes are caught using these drugs they face bans and disqualification. At the professional level in bodybuilding that doesn't happen. So the public conclude that the sport is a dark and pathetic one. There is no need for anyone to be jealous of those big muscles because to get them you have to be nuts and you have to break the law and cheat to get that big. That is what the public and media believe. Are they mistaken? When you can convince the public that the sport is safe and clean you will get lots of interest. We bodybuilders have always been looked down on by the public. They always had to find an excuse to not accept our superiority in physiques. So they concluded we were conceited and mere mirror athletes. Then some accused us of being muscle bound. Others said we were gay and most bodybuilders must be dumb as well. Not a pretty picture. Nowadays many still have those misconceptions of bodybuilding but have the ultimate reason to reject those who have big muscles. We are all cheaters and must be foolish to risk our health using those dangerous drugs. We lost Ray and Mike Mentzer and several other top champions who died at what are young ages. Ray was 47. That is a tragedy. We have to eliminate drugs from the sport. If it means that a generation of bodybuilders will miss out then that is the price the sport will have to pay. It has gone too far. Men with breasts are winning masculine contests. Guys with no discernible muscle in their calves are winning the Olympia. Now you accuse me of being irrelevant and out of touch! The IFBB should be ashamed of itself.
dayum dude, nobody came on here to read all these long ass research papers
narrow this shit down to 3 sentences to a paragraph
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Chick, you are right about things having changed since 1970. Things have deteriorated. The guys might be bigger but so what, look at what some have to do to obtain that size and condition. No thanks. I wouldn't encourage any youngster to compete in bodybuilding. I used to teach PE in school. Bodybuilding is an amazing activity. At my age it keeps me feeling young and if I can keep myself growing it is close to being the fountain of youth. I really resent the suggestion that just because someone is older they are clueless about what is going on in the sport. It is embarrassing to associate with bodybuilding today. I install amazing machines in my gym for bodybuilders. I have a big room full of free weights. So I support bodybuilding professionally and personally. I just cannot endorse what some do to achieve their size. When they win nothing and make little from the sport but risk their health that is sad to see. Instead of building magnificent physiques and being healthy we find guys who look amazing on stage but who have done dreadful things to their bodies.
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What is wrong, is BB has gone down the shitter for along time. And the IFBB refuses to do anything about as long they can keep making the money who cares. They know this. They know the BB are so insecure they will do anything for the IFBB and with the IFBB if there is just a little chance of them becoming a champion and a star with some money. The only problem is the dictate who gets the money and who wins. They dictate who gets the pro cards. The literally control every single IFBB members lives. And the funny thing is they give nothing back. And the worse thing is the members let them do what they want. It's really sad. So big and muscular yet they can't control their own lives. All that muscle and macho yet they can barely walk without having to ask the IFBB's permission. How can anyone live like that. Sorry but I am way to proud to be lead around on a leash. I had my chance to do somethings but it meant lowering myself and having to be treated like a puppet. Sorry but I like being in control. It might have been the harder way but at least I don't have to answer to a bunch of old men jacking off behind the scenes and making a ton of money while I barely get by. :)
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Drug ABUSE is the problem today and it's not steroid abuse but GH and insulin abuse.
These two drugs have fucked up the sport big time. Guys who have figured out their use generally break through and look good for a year or two but then the gut gets out of control.... think ronnie, jay, nasser, yates at the end, kamali, atwood, dennis james etc etc.
I wish steroids were the only drugs pros took then they'd look way better than today!
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To Chick. I can talk about what you post on these discussion boards. Sorry if anything I said was inaccurate or caused you to be upset. I won in 1970. Those days weren't so good. The IFBB was the only organization in Canada and that remained true for a long time.
You are mistaken about the public and drugs in bodybuilding. Where have you been? I happen to own a gym and have done so since 1971. It is a big gym and better than anything owned by Joe Gold. I also design and build better equipment than Joe did. That is no big deal.
Here is how it works, Chick, regarding drugs. You guys that use a lot of these drugs obviously feel defensive about it all. Heck I used some Dianabol and am not proud to admit it. I used maybe 3 bottles of those pills on three occasions. That is about 10 bottles all up. I would be proud if I could say I never used those drugs. I didn't use any for over 11 years in the sport. I haven't used any since 1977 and won't.
Now forget about me for a moment and let us look at what the public believes re bodybuilders like yourself. They all assume you needed dangerous drugs to build those big muscles. Are they mistaken? Nope. That is the truth. There have been guys who have built good physiques drugfree but they were guys from way back even before my time. Since 1965 most champions have used some anabolic steroids. Even Arnold claims he didn't use what even the women use today! So how is the public going to be impressed with those big muscles if they are built using substances banned by the Olympic movement? If professional athletes are caught using these drugs they face bans and disqualification. At the professional level in bodybuilding that doesn't happen. So the public conclude that the sport is a dark and pathetic one. There is no need for anyone to be jealous of those big muscles because to get them you have to be nuts and you have to break the law and cheat to get that big. That is what the public and media believe. Are they mistaken? When you can convince the public that the sport is safe and clean you will get lots of interest. We bodybuilders have always been looked down on by the public. They always had to find an excuse to not accept our superiority in physiques. So they concluded we were conceited and mere mirror athletes. Then some accused us of being muscle bound. Others said we were gay and most bodybuilders must be dumb as well. Not a pretty picture. Nowadays many still have those misconceptions of bodybuilding but have the ultimate reason to reject those who have big muscles. We are all cheaters and must be foolish to risk our health using those dangerous drugs. We lost Ray and Mike Mentzer and several other top champions who died at what are young ages. Ray was 47. That is a tragedy. We have to eliminate drugs from the sport. If it means that a generation of bodybuilders will miss out then that is the price the sport will have to pay. It has gone too far. Men with breasts are winning masculine contests. Guys with no discernible muscle in their calves are winning the Olympia. Now you accuse me of being irrelevant and out of touch! The IFBB should be ashamed of itself.
First off Mike Mentzer's father died of the same thing right around his age. Joanne Sharkey can vouch for that.
No 2, drugs are in all sports and people are going to assume whatever they hear in the news. Bodybuilders were considered dumb as Dave Draper "Don't make Waves" or Muscle Beach Party with Biff and his gang (Larry Scott).
No 3 and you should know this good and well. Steroids were much more powerful back then than today. You didn't need much because steroids were not banned and legit companies were making it instead of underground labs where the stuff is mostly diluted or fake. More steroids are being used but at the same time supplements, training, and nutrition have greatly improved. No more wheat germ, brewer's yeast, and Knox Gelatin ( I still use Knox, good for the joints) to depend on.
Come on Vince, you have to admit that some things have changed and other unfortunately haven't
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You're out of touch...
The general public doesn't like bodybuilding because it doesn't appeal to the general public. It only appeals to the fitness market, and the small nitch market of "hardcore" fans...THATS IT.
We don't have to appeal to "mainstream America"...we need to appeal to OUR OWN fans, first and foremost.
You honestly think that if bodybuilders were clean and scaled down, the numbers of fans would INCREASE? Lolololol...We have those shows already, they're called "Natural shows", and they don't exactly sell the place out...they're not even supported by bodybuilding fans in general...family and friends, thats all.
ENTERTAINMENT is what sells, and bodybuilding is inherrantly BORING...even to bodybuilders. Without bringing up the entertainment value, the numbers will remain status quo...nothing more, nothing less. World Xhampionship Poker even figured this out and draws record attendance now and TV ratings have skyrocketed....WHY? Because they started featuring tthe PERSONALITIES of the players...much like the UFC, or the best example...WWE.
People have to CARE who wins, loses, gets screwed, etc, etc.
This has nothing to do with drugs...everyone knows athletes in all walks of sports take steroids, etc. Do you see MN Football ratings dropping? MLB? Oympics? Tour DeFrance...if anything, the whole drug scandal surrounding Lance Armstrong only made people watch even more...before that, who gave a shit about watching guys biking for hunderds of miles?
Money in sports comes primarily from ONE source...TV revenue. We (bodybuilding) have none because were not entertaining enough to sustain ratings to justify the time. Make it more entertaining...we pick up TV time...pick up TV time...we pick up SPONSORS willing to pay big dollars to advertise their products to thousands of fans tuning in, or paying the PPV, etc.
You're living in the past , my friend...and I'm doing more than anybody to initiate change. No offense, but please don't talk about what I'm doing/ not doing when you really don't know.
BTW...5 guys did boycott the 1981 Olympia. Guess what came of it? NOTHING...They were all back the next year bitching about Franco winning and costing themselves money trying to make a point. Should tell you a little something about what works and what doesn't.
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In order to make bodybuilding more appealing to the public, you have to view bodybuilding from the general public's point of view. And I would have to agree with Vince on how the general public views our sport. When you think about it, what other sport on this planet has to make distinctions between "open" and "natural" competitions.
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First off Mike Mentzer's father died of the same thing right around his age. Joanne Sharkey can vouch for that.
No 2, drugs are in all sports and people are going to assume whatever they hear in the news. Bodybuilders were considered dumb as Dave Draper "Don't make Waves" or Muscle Beach Party with Biff and his gang (Larry Scott).
No 3 and you should know this good and well. Steroids were much more powerful back then than today. You didn't need much because steroids were not banned and legit companies were making it instead of underground labs where the stuff is mostly diluted or fake. More steroids are being used but at the same time supplements, training, and nutrition have greatly improved. No more wheat germ, brewer's yeast, and Knox Gelatin ( I still use Knox, good for the joints) to depend on.
Come on Vince, you have to admit that some things have changed and other unfortunately haven't
just wondering, what does csn mft stand for?
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In the early 80's steroids were no big deal to the public... they even talked about them on the network TV olympia broadcast (I still have the tape).
Natural bodybuilding ISN'T the way to go.
AESTHETIC bodybuilding is the way to go in which drug ABUSERS generally don't fair too well...
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Okay, Chick, you want to talk about state of the art? Tell me where the only gym in the world is that has a biceps-supinator machine? Answer? My gym in Sydney. I have designed machines that Golds Gym, Venice does not have. I am reasonably up to date re theories of hypertrophy and have original ideas and have written about them a few years ago in Ironman. I have taken photos of Mr Olympias and had them on the covers of magazines. I have run contests with others and created rules for judgings these contests.
Now what has happened since 1970 that is so praiseworthy? The gyms have improved, equipment has improved, supplements have improved, sports science has improved and why shouldn't bodybuilders be able to build huge physiques naturally? How would anyone know what is possible if almost all the best guys end up using drugs? Answer? We will never know. So don't suggest I am mistaken and out of touch. I keep myself informed. Are you suggesting I am blind and cannot see the bitch tits of Ronnie, Jay and several of the others? Are you saying I cannot see that Ronnie has no cuts in his calves? How can the IFBB endorse that? Are you suggesting that I cannot detect the synthol in the shoulders of many of the guys competing today? It is pathetic. That isn't bodybuilding but a sham. I won't even start on commenting on the women because that is really pathetic.
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I agree that aesthetic bodybuilding is the way to go, the problem is that it is very difficult to clearly define aesthetic. It means different things to different people, pretty much the only things that are fairly clear cut are size, conditioning, and proportion. And deep down inside I think that everyone can admit that Ronnie displays those three qualities better than anyone else in the world. Is it aesthetic? That's a whole different story.
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Maybe we can get the Adonis and 240 to come to Sydney and in one year I will build them up naturally to an amazing size. That should demonstrate the ability I have.
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You're out of touch...
The general public doesn't like bodybuilding because it doesn't appeal to the general public. It only appeals to the fitness market, and the small nitch market of "hardcore" fans...THATS IT.
We don't have to appeal to "mainstream America"...we need to appeal to OUR OWN fans, first and foremost.
You honestly think that if bodybuilders were clean and scaled down, the numbers of fans would INCREASE? Lolololol...We have those shows already, they're called "Natural shows", and they don't exactly sell the place out...they're not even supported by bodybuilding fans in general...family and friends, thats all.
ENTERTAINMENT is what sells, and bodybuilding is inherrantly BORING...even to bodybuilders. Without bringing up the entertainment value, the numbers will remain status quo...nothing more, nothing less. World Xhampionship Poker even figured this out and draws record attendance now and TV ratings have skyrocketed....WHY? Because they started featuring tthe PERSONALITIES of the players...much like the UFC, or the best example...WWE.
People have to CARE who wins, loses, gets screwed, etc, etc.
This has nothing to do with drugs...everyone knows athletes in all walks of sports take steroids, etc. Do you see MN Football ratings dropping? MLB? Oympics? Tour DeFrance...if anything, the whole drug scandal surrounding Lance Armstrong only made people watch even more...before that, who gave a shit about watching guys biking for hunderds of miles?
Money in sports comes primarily from ONE source...TV revenue. We (bodybuilding) have none because were not entertaining enough to sustain ratings to justify the time. Make it more entertaining...we pick up TV time...pick up TV time...we pick up SPONSORS willing to pay big dollars to advertise their products to thousands of fans tuning in, or paying the PPV, etc.
You're living in the past , my friend...and I'm doing more than anybody to initiate change. No offense, but please don't talk about what I'm doing/ not doing when you really don't know.
BTW...5 guys did boycott the 1981 Olympia. Guess what came of it? NOTHING...They were all back the next year bitching about Franco winning and costing themselves money trying to make a point. Should tell you a little something about what works and what doesn't.
Good post Chick, very valid points.
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Maybe we can get the Adonis and 240 to come to Sydney and in one year I will build them up naturally to an amazing size. That should demonstrate the ability I have.
They're all yours...
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Maybe we can get the Adonis and 240 to come to Sydney and in one year I will build them up naturally to an amazing size. That should demonstrate the ability I have.
Now your losing me Vince, and your credibillity rating just went down, natural bodybuilding sucks worse than Ronnie does, some where in the middle is where we should be Like a 223 Flex or 230 Leverone, none of this mass with no class crap, or naturals who look like they just got off survivor.
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I agree that aesthetic bodybuilding is the way to go, the problem is that it is very difficult to clearly define aesthetic. It means different things to different people, pretty much the only things that are fairly clear cut are size, conditioning, and proportion. And deep down inside I think that everyone can admit that Ronnie displays those three qualities better than anyone else in the world. Is it aesthetic? That's a whole different story.
ronnie at 98 mr O and 2001 Arnold is aesthetic... big but still has shape.
ronnie now is a blob most of the time...
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It's a shame but just think who wants to look at a bunch of big muscle men who are all drugged up covered in oil and posing for very very little money and most No money,posing and having trouble breathing.Wow IFBB is in some trouble in the future.The BBs are already in trouble.IMO.
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If the IFBB can run a fair contest with good criteria and the winner is the best guy there then that will be something to be proud of. From my out of touch position I read about the controversies every year at the Olympia and at many other contests. For example, what is the position re judging about the weighting to deduct for guys with bitch tits? Seems to me they should be disqualified. That might be an extreme position but why should guys with breasts or remnants of breasts win men's bodybuilding contests? What is more important in a contest, size or cuts? How do you weigh each of these components in judging? How should you score a guy who has no cuts in his calves? Answer: place him last. If a guy is cut up and has no cuts in his calves something major is wrong. I might need glasses to see my computer screen clearly but I can easily detect gynocomastia and lack of cuts in the calves. You talk about progress in bodybuilding. I haven't seen it. Why worry about bodybuilding being an entertainment when you have work to do re valid judging of contests. Beauty should be a component in judging but how on earth are you going to specify what that means? Why has the number of judges in the Olympia been so low over the years? Again, Ben discarded a good judging system in NAABA where they used more judges and did comparisons for the main part. No silly rounds standing front side and back. Heck, modern guys cannot even stand normally anymore. It is ludicrous and you are doing nothing to alter this. The idea that you can stand relaxed with your arms way out is plain ridiculous. Who enforces how bodybuilders should stand on stage. Disqualify cheaters and maybe your organization and the sport will be accepted and respected. Why should anyone respect the IFBB today despite the progress you claim to be part of?
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If the IFBB can run a fair contest with good criteria and the winner is the best guy there then that will be something to be proud of. From my out of touch position I read about the controversies every year at the Olympia and at many other contests. For example, what is the position re judging about the weighting to deduct for guys with bitch tits? Seems to me they should be disqualified. That might be an extreme position but why should guys with breasts or remnants of breasts win men's bodybuilding contests? What is more important in a contest, size or cuts? How do you weigh each of these components in judging? How should you score a guy who has no cuts in his calves? Answer: place him last. If a guy is cut up and has no cuts in his calves something major is wrong. I might need glasses to see my computer screen clearly but I can easily detect gynocomastia and lack of cuts in the calves. You talk about progress in bodybuilding. I haven't seen it. Why worry about bodybuilding being an entertainment when you have work to do re valid judging of contests. Beauty should be a component in judging but how on earth are you going to specify what that means? Why has the number of judges in the Olympia been so low over the years? Again, Ben discarded a good judging system in NAABA where they used more judges and did comparisons for the main part. No silly rounds standing front side and back. Heck, modern guys cannot even stand normally anymore. It is ludicrous and you are doing nothing to alter this. The idea that you can stand relaxed with your arms way out is plain ridiculous. Who enforces how bodybuilders should stand on stage. Disqualify cheaters and maybe your organization and the sport will be accepted and respected. Why should anyone respect the IFBB today despite the progress you claim to be part of?
yikes!
Contoversy in bodybuilding? COME ON......!!!
Do you honestly think there is ANY order you could place the top 15 at a bodybuilding show and please everyone???
My mother thinks I should've won every show I've been in...where we going here, Vince?
Heres a newsflash for you, friend....bodybuilding judging is based on OPINION.
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To answer 'honest' re what is possible naturally. I wonder what the limits of natural size are? I would bet that with the knowledge coming out of exercise science labs that the potential to build huge muscles naturally has not been approached by anyone in recent years. So many get reasonably big then contaminate the enterprise by taking drugs. They lose any possibility of knowing what is responsible for their size.
In my opinion it should be possible to add a couple of inches to the arms and calves in two months. I am talking about guys like the magnificent Adonis. Not sure about 240 but what the heck, send him over! I don't do personal training but it would be an interesting project with two very motivated guys. I guarantee Adonis will have way bigger triceps.
When I was 58 I put an inch on my arms and about 1 1/4 inch on my calves in one month of training. Some of that was regaining former size. I got sore joints doing that and now know more so I can avoid getting injuries. At least I hope I can. I would like to see what is possible from training. I don't use or endorse any supplements at all. So this would be a real challenge for this experiment.
The contest stuff we can debate until the cows come home and still be unhappy. However, if we know how to get really big and keep growing naturally that will be wonderful information. That is the kind of progress an out of touch guy like me is interested in.
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I know how difficult it is to judge contests because I have judged plenty myself. We used to have annual contests at my gym and one year I was so disgusted with the judges that the next year decided to do the judging myself. That was more difficult than I thought it would be and I learned that is not the way to go. You need several opinions. Now, who selects the judges and on what criterion? How many judges should there be and what should the rules be? There are lots of things that can be done to improve the judging process. Especially since it is a subjective assessment. I thought about the possibility of having two judging panels. One live and the other in a room examining photos. They would make all the images the same size and then select the best from those images. The combined scores would be used to select the winner. I would never use the posedown for anything but entertainment. I think at most contests the posedown was an occasion when the judges scores could be added up. Why do they still score the posedown? Answer? To let errant judges correct their scores. Bodybuilding not only has to be fair but seen to be fair. Bev Francis should be awarded a Ms Olympia by the IFBB for unfairness to her in the past. It surely was a travesty of justice to her. There are others who deserved to win but were not awarded first place. The history of the Olympia is surely controversial. Even though Arnold put me down in a contest he judged I still would have placed him first at the 1980 Olympia in Sydney.
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It's probably possible for a guy with extremely gifted genetics to be under 6' and weigh around 240lbs. in contest shape naturally. But I guarantee you that in order to do this his life will have to consist of only eating, sleeping, and training. Most bodybuilders starting out work at least 40hrs. a week which greatly cuts into recovery times.
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vince you hate the gear but think bev should have been Ms O?
she was geared up way back when she was in track and field!
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To answer 'honest' re what is possible naturally. I wonder what the limits of natural size are? I would bet that with the knowledge coming out of exercise science labs that the potential to build huge muscles naturally has not been approached by anyone in recent years. So many get reasonably big then contaminate the enterprise by taking drugs. They lose any possibility of knowing what is responsible for their size.
In my opinion it should be possible to add a couple of inches to the arms and calves in two months. I am talking about guys like the magnificent Adonis. Not sure about 240 but what the heck, send him over! I don't do personal training but it would be an interesting project with two very motivated guys. I guarantee Adonis will have way bigger triceps.
When I was 58 I put an inch on my arms and about 1 1/4 inch on my calves in one month of training. Some of that was regaining former size. I got sore joints doing that and now know more so I can avoid getting injuries. At least I hope I can. I would like to see what is possible from training. I don't use or endorse any supplements at all. So this would be a real challenge for this experiment.
The contest stuff we can debate until the cows come home and still be unhappy. However, if we know how to get really big and keep growing naturally that will be wonderful information. That is the kind of progress an out of touch guy like me is interested in.
The "magnificent Adonis"?
Now I know you're whacked.
Thanks for the input....
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Well, the use of steroids and other drugs was allowed in the past and still is allowed. Bev deserved to win one of those Ms Olympia contests. If there is no testing then that shouldn't be considered. Bev has never tested positive for using banned substances that I know of. Was she using? Well I imagine Gael and Bev and other athletes that Franz in Melbourne was training were using steroids. I remember them calling such things 'beans'!
It is clear that the evidence shows that drugs make a huge difference in the physiques that women can develop. However, some women have naturally cut and larger muscles so we have to be careful about who we say is using.
What I dislike about Bev's case is the blatant intention of Ben and the IFBB to prevent her from winning that contest. I think Ben's position was that Bev was not good for women's bodybuilding because she resembled a man. The ironical thing is Bev eventually had a nose job and breast implants and changed her posing but still didn't win that contest. I like Bev and respect her as a person. She is honest and fair and a good person. Feminine, too! Not sure I like her choice of a guy but what the heck that is her business.
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The "magnificent Adonis"?
Now I know you're whacked.
Thanks for the input....
keyboard error from laughing
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Hey, Chick, I have a sense of humour in case you didn't know. I like having guys like Adonis in my gym. They take the boredom out of that business. Dreamers are always going to be around gyms and Adonis is one of the best. We who know more should help aspiring heroes.
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Well, the use of steroids and other drugs was allowed in the past and still is allowed. Bev deserved to win one of those Ms Olympia contests. If there is no testing then that shouldn't be considered. Bev has never tested positive for using banned substances that I know of. Was she using? Well I imagine Gael and Bev and other athletes that Franz in Melbourne was training were using steroids. I remember them calling such things 'beans'!
It is clear that the evidence shows that drugs make a huge difference in the physiques that women can develop. However, some women have naturally cut and larger muscles so we have to be careful about who we say is using.
What I dislike about Bev's case is the blatant intention of Ben and the IFBB to prevent her from winning that contest. I think Ben's position was that Bev was not good for women's bodybuilding because she resembled a man. The ironical thing is Bev eventually had a nose job and breast implants and changed her posing but still didn't win that contest. I like Bev and respect her as a person. She is honest and fair and a good person. Feminine, too! Not sure I like her choice of a guy but what the heck that is her business.
I think bev is great and should have won in 89 myself... before that cory was better.
in 83 she was unrefined. i think lori bowen looked great in that contest. muscle and sexy...
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You honestly think that if bodybuilders were clean and scaled down, the numbers of fans would INCREASE? Lolololol...We have those shows already, they're called "Natural shows", and they don't exactly sell the place out...they're not even supported by bodybuilding fans in general...family and friends, thats all.
there is a big difference between the natural contests and the distended stomachs of GH and Insulin. There are a lot of people who would likely attend contests (pro and top amateur) if it weren't for "that look" that you get from GH and Insulin.
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there is a big difference between the natural contests and the distended stomachs of GH and Insulin. There are a lot of people who would likely attend contests (pro and top amateur) if it weren't for "that look" that you get from GH and Insulin.
You tell them Timbo!!!
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just wondering, what does csn mft stand for?
CSN= "Cock Sucking Nobody"
Not sure about the "MFT". Maybe something to do with "mammaries"? :-\
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Vince wheres your gym in Sydney, im from Qld.
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Vince and Roz's Fitness World or V & R Fitness. We are at Meadowbank which is near Ryde and close to Meadowbank railway station and Meadowbank Tech. Email me if you want to catch up with me there because I usually am working on new machines at my factory. I will install the world's best chin/dip machine soon. Has a 375 pound weight stack on it to accommodate most individuals. Feels really good, too. This is a standing version and not one of those kneeling ones. OvinceZ@yahoo.com
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Well, the use of steroids and other drugs was allowed in the past and still is allowed. Bev deserved to win one of those Ms Olympia contests. If there is no testing then that shouldn't be considered. Bev has never tested positive for using banned substances that I know of. Was she using? Well I imagine Gael and Bev and other athletes that Franz in Melbourne was training were using steroids. I remember them calling such things 'beans'!
It is clear that the evidence shows that drugs make a huge difference in the physiques that women can develop. However, some women have naturally cut and larger muscles so we have to be careful about who we say is using.
What I dislike about Bev's case is the blatant intention of Ben and the IFBB to prevent her from winning that contest. I think Ben's position was that Bev was not good for women's bodybuilding because she resembled a man. The ironical thing is Bev eventually had a nose job and breast implants and changed her posing but still didn't win that contest. I like Bev and respect her as a person. She is honest and fair and a good person. Feminine, too! Not sure I like her choice of a guy but what the heck that is her business.
Dude, Bev Francis represents everything that is wrong with Female Bodybuilding.
It's a fcuking man.
Short recap: Bev Francis was the first mass monster that took the "Fe" out of Female Bodybuilding.
He paved the way, and if one athlete should be blamed for where Female bodybuilding is today, Bev Francis sure as hell makes a good case for it. He was horrendous in the late 80's/early 90's.
Either he or Kim Chievsky.
YIP
Zack
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Why do you comment on things you have no clue about?
This isn't backroom polotics, is it. We read the mags and all bodybuilding boards. When you started out you were touting health insurance as being one of your priorities. Wheres the insurance? Since JP and the rest of us fans would like to know what have you done for the athletes you represent. Since we have no clue, clue us. Where the ones who ultimately pay your salary through contest tickets, supps you endorse and other things like tee shirts and autographed pictures. Why treat us like dirt. Insulting fans is very immature, not your style. It's only going to come back and bite you.
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CSN= "Cock Sucking Nobody"
Not sure about the "MFT". Maybe something to do with "mammaries"? :-\
Milk-Filled Titties.
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This isn't backroom polotics, is it. We read the mags and all bodybuilding boards. When you started out you were touting health insurance as being one of your priorities. Wheres the insurance? Since JP and the rest of us fans would like to know what have you done for the athletes you represent. Since we have no clue, clue us. Where the ones who ultimately pay your salary through contest tickets, supps you endorse and other things like tee shirts and autographed pictures. Why treat us like dirt. Insulting fans is very immature, not your style. It's only going to come back and bite you.
The insurance has been in place for 6 months, and has been posted many times.
The idiots get treated like dirt...the fans get treated with respect as always...there's a difference
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1. No one cares about YOUR opinion
2. I'm the IFBB Athletes rep, and thus welcome and create all kinds of opportunities for IFBB athletes...not every athlete in evey federation.
I must beg to differ. 240 calls a spade a spade. He, with a little schooling would make one of the best judges any organization has. No white washing and sweeping things under the carpet, thinking that if no one sees it, it will go away, NOT. You, above all others should be fighting to allow the IFBB athletes to make as much in their short carrears that they can. Weather it means competing in the PDI, WWE, TV and radio commercials or any other means to feed their family's without having to do what many must do just to keep the Wolf from busting down the door.
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I must beg to differ. 240 calls a spade a spade. He, with a little schooling would make one of the best judges any organization has. No white washing and sweeping things under the carpet, thinking that if no one sees it, it will go away, NOT. You, above all others should be fighting to allow the IFBB athletes to make as much in their short carrears that they can. Weather it means competing in the PDI, WWE, TV and radio commercials or any other means to feed their family's without having to do what many must do just to keep the Wolf from busting down the door.
As I've also stated numerous times...so far 1 guy has expressed an interest in competing in the PDI (if it has a show) ...Priest.
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As I've also stated numerous times...so far 1 guy has expressed an interest in competing in the PDI (if it has a show) ...Priest.
Bob,
In all honesty though do you really think guys are going to come to you and ask to be able to compete in 2 feds? With no ramifications, blackballing etc etc? Cmon now....
Years ago the IFBB allowed WBFers back after paying a penalty but can you honestly say they were fairly judged upon there return to an IFBB stage? No way in hell.
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Bob,
In all honesty though do you really think guys are going to come to you and ask to be able to compete in 2 feds? With no ramifications, blackballing etc etc? Cmon now....
Years ago the IFBB allowed WBFers back after paying a penalty but can you honestly say they were fairly judged upon there return to an IFBB stage? No way in hell.
Please...you think there would be ramifications for merely ASKING about competing? I talk to these guys all thee time, see them at every show and have discussed the issue at length with many more....no one is interested.
Most of them don't want anything to do with Wayne, some were on the receiving end of fines and suspensions and quite honestly don't trust Wayne. Others are willing to take the climb in the IFBB, have contracts and are doing very well,etc.
I'm sure there are a few taking a "wait and see" approach, as there are certainly no guarantee's, little money to be made and a show yet to take place.
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Please...you think there would be ramifications for merely ASKING about competing?
Yes. There seems to be a lot of stock put in loyalty, even if it means passing up great opportunities that exist to earn $ on non-ifbb show nights.
If loyalty to a nonprofit Canadian org which pays you 2 grand a year is keeping your family's income at the poverty line, perhaps it is time to question the way things are set up.
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Just what are these "great opportunities" you keep referring to? A show that has yet to take place and could very well go the way of the "qualifiers" that have been canceled?
Major sponsors that STILL have yet to be named...?
Appearances and guest posing opportunities that Vince (or anyone else) had a total of ZERO?
A radio show which has yet to make it's appearance?
There are a lot of athletes with very nice endorsement contracts, all due to the opportunities and exposure they've had competing in the IFBB.
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Just what are these "great opportunities" you keep referring to? A show that has yet to take place and could very well go the way of the "qualifiers" that have been canceled?
Major sponsors that STILL have yet to be named...?
Appearances and guest posing opportunities that Vince (or anyone else) had a total of ZERO?
A radio show which has yet to make it's appearance?
There are a lot of athletes with very nice endorsement contracts, all due to the opportunities and exposure they've had competing in the IFBB.
One question bro, as much time as you spend on here when are you at the gym preparing for a contest?
Thanks
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There are a lot of athletes with very nice endorsement contracts, all due to the opportunities and exposure they've had competing in the IFBB.
Those hold true for perhaps the top 10 Olympia people (Jays, Ronnie's etc) but what about others out of the top 10?
Are you saying that perhaps maybe their time is up and look for other things to do besides BB'ing. Alot of them are smart and seem to have other investments but what about the ones that don't? It's tough to hold a F/T job and be an elite BB'er
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Just what are these "great opportunities" you keep referring to? A show that has yet to take place and could very well go the way of the "qualifiers" that have been canceled?
Bob, even if there is only ONE show which pays 30 grand, isn't that 30,000 reasons to stand up for the guys and give them the right to compete?
Saying "Let's wait and see" means that the guys are deprived opportunities to earn $ in both.
If they had permission to do both, they could earn more money. Throw all the politics and "what ifs" out the window. Bottom line is that the IFBB guys could earn more money by doing PDI shows on the side. Whether it last one show or ten years, why prevent it?
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One question bro, as much time as you spend on here when are you at the gym preparing for a contest?
Thanks
I'm not preparing for a contest right now...
I train everyday between 12 noon and 1:30, sometimes I go back at night.
....and you can see exactly when and where I train on my new "War 4 the Worlds" DVD available at BB.com!! ;D
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Bob, even if there is only ONE show which pays 30 grand, isn't that 30,000 reasons to stand up for the guys and give them the right to compete?
Saying "Let's wait and see" means that the guys are deprived opportunities to earn $ in both.
If they had permission to do both, they could earn more money. Throw all the politics and "what ifs" out the window. Bottom line is that the IFBB guys could earn more money by doing PDI shows on the side. Whether it last one show or ten years, why prevent it?
1.Who's preventing it?
2. It's the guys themselves that are saying wait and see.
3. Without major sponsors being announced, where is the guarantee of $30,000 actually being paid? Where is the money coming from, Wayne's pocket?
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I'm not preparing for a contest right now...
I train everyday between 12 noon and 1:30, sometimes I go back at night.
....and you can see exactly when and where I train on my new "War 4 the Worlds" DVD available at BB.com!! ;D
Nice segue there, Bob. :)
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I'm not preparing for a contest right now...
I train everyday between 12 noon and 1:30, sometimes I go back at night.
....and you can see exactly when and where I train on my new "War 4 the Worlds" DVD available at BB.com!! ;D
bob, I have nothing againts you but I do have an honest question. What do you think-as athlete's rep-of the way that the guys who did the WBF shows were treated upon returning to the IFBB. They worked out an agreement, payed a fine and for the most part were screwed from that point on. Aaron Baker and David Dearth along with Jim Quinn-structure aside-presented some very impressive physiques and were constantly placed lower than they shoudl have-Baker getting screwed at the 95 Ironman and I think the SouthBeach (first show in 95, can't remember the name, I think it was southbeach) and dearth presented some amazing conditioning and only earned one 3rd place for all of his efforts. Berry Demay looked damn good at the NOC and placed what, 14th? How can the IFBB justify this type of treatment? I even remember weider telling the other mags that if they covered the WBF shows they would be blackballed, is this legal? I thought imposing a monopoly was againts the law...I might be wrong on that but I remember hearing it.
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You seem to profess you know how I think and what others think about me...funny, I don't remember seeing you in any of the meetings, or at any of the shows...just what exactly do you know?
Why don't you list all I've done for the athlete's since you seem to know...?
The public doesn't give a rats ass about testing...no more than they care about baseball players being tested...you see any drop in attendance?
There is more money in bodybuilding today than at any other time in history. More guys are making a living bodybuilding, and have endorsement contracts than at any other time in history...There were more people in atendance at the Olympia this past year, than at any other time in history.
This aint 1974 anymore, Mr. Canada...times have changed.
Quit talking about what *I* say, do, or think...you don't know me.
Let us not forget, more bodybuiliders have been DIEING than any other time in history. MEN and Women. What does that say about Pro bodybuilders and drug use? Many will say ok, prove it. I say, let your mind and heart show you the truth. GEAR is killing bodybuilders because they have no clue what/how these drugs interact. Experimentation really isn't smart. Once a mistake is made, there's no going back.
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1.Who's preventing it?
2. It's the guys themselves that are saying wait and see.
3. Without major sponsors being announced, where is the guarantee of $30,000 actually being paid? Where is the money coming from, Wayne's pocket?
1. The IFBB is preventing it, promising bans for anyone who competes
2. If even one guy (Lee) is NOT saying "Let's wait and see", it's the athletes rep job to represent him to the best of his abilities, for the right to earn in both federations.
3. There have been sponsors announced. Wayne has a pretty good history of paying guys - he did manage to run things in the IFBB pretty well for 20 years. You have no reason to believe that guys will be stiffed. I'd be a lot more nervous about some of the smaller show IFBB promoters than Wayne DeMilia in his debut independent production.
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bob, I have nothing againts you but I do have an honest question. What do you think-as athlete's rep-of the way that the guys who did the WBF shows were treated upon returning to the IFBB. They worked out an agreement, payed a fine and for the most part were screwed from that point on. Aaron Baker and David Dearth along with Jim Quinn-structure aside-presented some very impressive physiques and were constantly placed lower than they shoudl have-Baker getting screwed at the 95 Ironman and I think the SouthBeach (first show in 95, can't remember the name, I think it was southbeach) and dearth presented some amazing conditioning and only earned one 3rd place for all of his efforts. Berry Demay looked damn good at the NOC and placed what, 14th? How can the IFBB justify this type of treatment? I even remember weider telling the other mags that if they covered the WBF shows they would be blackballed, is this legal? I thought imposing a monopoly was againts the law...I might be wrong on that but I remember hearing it.
Well, I guess it comes down to how one looks at it.
The IFBB was under no obligation to let them back in...they could have simply said no.
Other than Aaron (who I personally would have had winning)...I don't think anyone got screwed. Barry had a torn pec which was very prominent, Mike Christian was past his prime, Dearth was never placing that well BEFORE he went to the WBF, Quinn was never in condition...I mean really, who really got screwed here?
Has Lee gotten the shaft since announcing his PDI plans? Many argue he got a gift at the last 2 shows...
The top guys in the IFBB were still the top guys when the WBF guys came back, as none of them left.
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Well, I guess it comes down to how one looks at it.
The IFBB was under no obligation to let them back in...they could have simply said no.
Other than Aaron (who I personally would have had winning)...I don't think anyone got screwed. Barry had a torn pec which was very prominent, Mike Christian was past his prime, Dearth was never placing that well BEFORE he went to the WBF, Quinn was never in condition...I mean really, who really got screwed here?
Has Lee gotten the shaft since announcing his PDI plans? Many argue he got a gift at the last 2 shows...
The top guys in the IFBB were still the top guys when the WBF guys came back, as none of them left.
you might be right about the shape of some guys, I'm going off memory. I guess I was not asking about particular guys. I was getting at the way the IFBB took thier money, I think it was 10% of thier earnings while in the WBF which the guys paid in good faith and then had the tag "WBF Guy" on them for the rest of thier competitive careers. Now maybe some of them never would have done crap but no one can really say the slate was clean when they came back and that was what I was getting at. Now I know this is not the subject of this thread and I know you were not there and had nothing to do with it, this is nothing personal just want to know how you feel about this.
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1. The IFBB is preventing it, promising bans for anyone who competes
2. If even one guy (Lee) is NOT saying "Let's wait and see", it's the athletes rep job to represent him to the best of his abilities, for the right to earn in both federations.
3. There have been sponsors announced. Wayne has a pretty good history of paying guys - he did manage to run things in the IFBB pretty well for 20 years. You have no reason to believe that guys will be stiffed. I'd be a lot more nervous about some of the smaller show IFBB promoters than Wayne DeMilia in his debut independent production.
1. The IFBB rules have been in place for 40 years, everyone is aware of this when they sign the contract to become a member.
2. Everyone is well aware of Lee's position...I can't make them anymore aware than they are. They aren't going to change the rules for 1 guy...Lee can make HIS opinion and wishes known for LEE...I have to reflect the wishes of EVERYONE as a whole.
3.What sponsors? All I seen is a bunch of filler on the poster...Other than Universal (which may only be on board because of Vinny) where is the money coming from?
It's YOUR opinion that he "ran things well for 20 years"...many would disagree that have actual experience with wayne at the helm. Some of the very rules the IFBB has that you have a problem with, were put in place by....you guessed it....Wayne DeMilia.
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1. The IFBB rules have been in place for 40 years, everyone is aware of this when they sign the contract to become a member.
2. Everyone is well aware of Lee's position...I can't make them anymore aware than they are. They aren't going to change the rules for 1 guy...Lee can make HIS opinion and wishes known for LEE...I have to reflect the wishes of EVERYONE as a whole.
3.What sponsors? All I seen is a bunch of filler on the poster...Other than Universal (which may only be on board because of Vinny) where is the money coming from?
It's YOUR opinion that he "ran things well for 20 years"...many would disagree that have actual experience with wayne at the helm. Some of the very rules the IFBB has that you have a problem with, were put in place by....you guessed it....Wayne DeMilia.
I see you doing nothing but defending the IFBB, and attacking the PDI.
A*true* athletes rep would let some IFBB spokesman handle those tasks. A *true* athletes rep - whose only goal was for every athlete to have the most available opportunities possible - would instead focus his energies upon every single dollar he would get for the athletes.
Read over your posts, Bob. It's pretty clear to anyone who reads them that you are more focused upon talking about why the PDI will fail, than you are about getting more money in the pros' pockets. There are many IFBB guys who will go their whole careers and never make a peep about the PDI, but who would do the NOC or a Euro show in a heartbeat if they thought they were allowed. Those Euro IFBB guys who fly around the world to not place in the USA - they would LOVE a PDI show in their country, where they have a shot at $.
The only good thing in all this, is that the world reads getbig. The pros, the brass, the PDI, the IFBB, they all read it. They are having an "ah-ha" moment right now, and it's abundantly clear that Bob Chic doesn't work for the athletes, he works for the IFBB. And that is fine- but just admit it. Stop grandstanding about all the opportunities you're working for, and look in the mirror and realize all the opportunities you're preventing as well.
You make a good living from BBing. 90% of the guys don't. The PDI is a great chance for Tier 2 & 3 guys to make a better living. I don't know why you're standing in their way.
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I see you doing nothing but defending the IFBB, and attacking the PDI.
A*true* athletes rep would let some IFBB spokesman handle those tasks. A *true* athletes rep - whose only goal was for every athlete to have the most available opportunities possible - would instead focus his energies upon every single dollar he would get for the athletes.
Read over your posts, Bob. It's pretty clear to anyone who reads them that you are more focused upon talking about why the PDI will fail, than you are about getting more money in the pros' pockets. There are many IFBB guys who will go their whole careers and never make a peep about the PDI, but who would do the NOC or a Euro show in a heartbeat if they thought they were allowed. Those Euro IFBB guys who fly around the world to not place in the USA - they would LOVE a PDI show in their country, where they have a shot at $.
The only good thing in all this, is that the world reads getbig. The pros, the brass, the PDI, the IFBB, they all read it. They are having an "ah-ha" moment right now, and it's abundantly clear that Bob Chic doesn't work for the athletes, he works for the IFBB. And that is fine- but just admit it. Stop grandstanding about all the opportunities you're working for, and look in the mirror and realize all the opportunities you're preventing as well.
You make a good living from BBing. 90% of the guys don't. The PDI is a great chance for Tier 2 & 3 guys to make a better living. I don't know why you're standing in their way.
Yeah....there's one gigantic flaw in your rambling.
If 90% of the guys in the IFBB aren't making a dime...then what do they have to gain by staying in it...and what do they have to lose by simply going to the PDI, anyway?
I got your "A-Ha" moment...right heeeeeeeere!
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Yeah....there's one gigantic flaw in your rambling.
If 90% of the guys in the IFBB aren't making a dime...then what do they have to gain by staying in it...and what do they have to lose by simply going to the PDI, anyway?
I got your "A-Ha" moment...right heeeeeeeere!
You two: get a room.
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Yeah....there's one gigantic flaw in your rambling.
If 90% of the guys in the IFBB aren't making a dime...then what do they have to gain by staying in it...and what do they have to lose by simply going to the PDI, anyway?
I got your "A-Ha" moment...right heeeeeeeere!
honestly most of these guys have spent thier entier lives trying to be pro's now they have a choice, stay with the IFBB and continue as is or swich and if it fails then thier career is over and thier dreams are destroyed. That's what's stopping alot of these guys, you don't think they forgot what happened to the wbf guys...what's to say it won't happen again?
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The PDI is a great chance for Tier 2 & 3 guys to make a better living. I don't know why you're standing in their way.
If you're truly concerned that these "Tier 2 & 3" athletes can make money, surley you should support the IFBB's rule because otherwise they will still not place?
If Ronnie, Jay, Dexter, Melvin, Darrem, Phil. entered the NOC, name me the top six?
Same people go home with the same amount of money.
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if I understand bob's title he's the IFBB athletes rep...he hs no obligation to help people succeed outside of the IFBB he's only there to act as a go between for the athletes and the officials....am I mistaken on this?
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if I understand bob's title he's the IFBB athletes rep...he hs no obligation to help people succeed outside of the IFBB he's only there to act as a go between for the athletes and the officials....am I mistaken on this?
240 would blame Chick for leaking Valerie Plame's CIA identity if he could. ::)
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If you're truly concerned that these "Tier 2 & 3" athletes can make money, surley you should support the IFBB's rule because otherwise they will still not place?
If Ronnie, Jay, Dexter, Melvin, Darrem, Phil. entered the NOC, name me the top six?
Same people go home with the same amount of money.
Good point. I can see both point of view. 240 is saying that the "2nd & 3rd tier" guys only chance to make a decent living is to compete in an organization (PDI) that they will have a chance in. At the same time, I take it that the guys from the IFBB should be able to cross-compete in the PDI without any ramifications to get an "extra paycheck" on the side as you put it.
But kmh has a good point. If the IFBB guys were allowed to do that, then the same guys would go home with all the money and the exhisting "problem" will still be in place......2nd & 3rd tier left with pennies!
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BUt the top guys won't enter every show. The top IFBB guys can't peak 20 times a year. You're not going to see a Cutler or Coleman traveling to Yugoslavia for many shows. Top guys will be more selective with their shows. While the top guys will earn more money (a good thing) the lesser guys will obviously earn too. Plus, they'll gain exposure in EUR which might open up more opportunities there for them.
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As I said before...all things being equal, if all the guys can compete in all the shows...we end up with the SAME shows on both sides of the fence...no more money to the lower tier guys, same money to the top guys....and two watered down federations and fan bases.
BTW, does anyone think the SAME supplement companies are going to spend MORE money to support another federation catering to the same fan base?
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240, I can see your point clearly. I am ALL for the 2nd & 3rd tier guys getting exposure and making a decent living for their hard work. But at the same time, even if the bottom tier 1 guys in the IFBB decide to do these shows, it still keeps the 2nd & 3rd tier guys 2nd & 3rd tier.
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BTW, does anyone think the SAME supplement companies are going to spend MORE money to support another federation catering to the same fan base?
This is very true! I don't think any supp comany will want to spend double of what they already spend on a whole other fan base when it's essentially the same. Double expo fees, double expenses, etc....NOT!
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As I said before...all things being equal, if all the guys can compete in all the shows...we end up with the SAME shows on both sides of the fence...no more money to the lower tier guys, same money to the top guys....and two watered down federations and fan bases.
BTW, does anyone think the SAME supplement companies are going to spend MORE money to support another federation catering to the same fan base?
Okay. So what do you have against the top guys earning more money, bob?
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240, I can see your point clearly. I am ALL for the 2nd & 3rd tier guys getting exposure and making a decent living for their hard work. But at the same time, even if the bottom tier 1 guys in the IFBB decide to do these shows, it still keeps the 2nd & 3rd tier guys 2nd & 3rd tier.
Were not even talking 2nd and 3rd tier PRO'S...were talking about amatuers that couldn't cut the mustard in some cases, where they going?
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I think bodybuilding is kind of a joke because guys can choose when they want to compete. They should be paid a salary and be MADE to compete in every single show.
That would make it more interesting.
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BTW, does anyone think the SAME supplement companies are going to spend MORE money to support another federation catering to the same fan base?
Um...Yes....Universal being one of them! Muscletech is another rumored to also get involved with the PDI
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Bottom line...
The athletes' earning power is being limited. Bob, you're part of the problem.
Either become an all-out advocate for them earning every penny, or step back and let Lee or someone else do the job.
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Were not even talking 2nd and 3rd tier PRO'S...were talking about amatuers that couldn't cut the mustard in some cases, where they going?
ummmm ouch for Rhino, Vinny and TJ. I do see where Chick is coming with his argument.
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Um...Yes....Universal being one of them! Muscletech is another rumored to also get involved with the PDI
Muscletech is not sponsoring the PDI, Met-Rx either...one of them actually told them to remove their logo from the poster/ website some time ago.
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I don't agree with not being allowed to make appearances, guest posing, seminars, etc...at non-IFBB sanctioned events. I believe as "independent contractors", they (IFBB) cannot dictate that we cant make money outside the IFBB when they aren't compensating us.
I don't have as big an issue with competing in other federations simply for the fact that the best opportunities are within the IFBB as it is...I think as long as an IFBB athlete is representing the IFBB in good standing, in advertisements, and being billed as an IFBB athlete...I see no good reason to limit the earning power of a athlete that is supporting and sustaining, the IFBB.
I will be submitting this for consideration in the upcoming board of governors meeting on behalf of all IFBB athletes.
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BTW, does anyone think the SAME supplement companies are going to spend MORE money to support another federation catering to the same fan base?
Isn't that called Marketing your product?
I think it would be a waste of $$$ if it wasn't catering to the appropriate customer base.
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Is Twinlab still sponsoring IFBB events after this season. Also, what makes you people think these supplement companies want to stay with the IFBB. If so why did the Toronto Pro get cancelled. And haven't some of the companies already reducing sponsorship dollars in the IFBB. These supp companies are getting tired of sponsoring IFBB events and not getting anything out of it. I would think they would look for something different. ANd with the PDI going to Europe it's a good time to climb on board and get your product into the European market.
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Except for Lee, are you guys really impressed with the lineup of the NOC this year?
Just a question.
Not at all..
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I'm not saying the guy will win the thing but his "shape" is what they should start rewarding over pure size even if it costs them a few hardcore fans for a year or two...
Even my dear old mom thinks VT has a great body and she hates the sport...
There are competitors in the Olympia with better shape + size over Taylor. Get real..
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Except for Lee, are you guys really impressed with the lineup of the NOC this year?
Just a question.
Guys, the NOC talent may be a little weak but after it is a success watch how many other IFBB pros will be jumping ship. Lee Priest is going to have to change his cell phone number as I am sure it will be blowing up with calls from Pro's asking all sorts of questions....
It seems that you guys like kowing outcomes....
Mr Olympia 06
1. Ronnie
2. Jay
3. Dex
4. Gustavo
5. Gunther
6 Branch
(3-6 interchangeable) but dont you want to see something different. Thats why I a going to the NOC, I am curious to see who shows up and if Lee will be crowned the first Champ of the new fed.....
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1. The IFBB is preventing it, promising bans for anyone who competes
2. If even one guy (Lee) is NOT saying "Let's wait and see", it's the athletes rep job to represent him to the best of his abilities, for the right to earn in both federations.
3. There have been sponsors announced. Wayne has a pretty good history of paying guys - he did manage to run things in the IFBB pretty well for 20 years. You have no reason to believe that guys will be stiffed. I'd be a lot more nervous about some of the smaller show IFBB promoters than Wayne DeMilia in his debut independent production.
Wayne stiffed competitors out of the top 10 at the '98 Olympia. He wasted $60,000 on Sinbad as an emcee (which he did really do), instead of spreading it out among the remaining competitors who did qualify for the Olympia.
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He wasted $60,000 on Sinbad as an emcee (which he did really do)
Money spent on hiring Sinbad is never wasted.
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Money spent on hiring Sinbad is never wasted.
He sucked-wasn't funny & not needed to pack the Theater at Madison Square Garden. $60,000 should have went to the competitors. A few competitors weren't too happy with that situation & voiced their opinions in magazine interviews.
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Wayne stiffed competitors out of the top 10 at the '98 Olympia. He wasted $60,000 on Sinbad as an emcee (which he did really do), instead of spreading it out among the remaining competitors who did qualify for the Olympia.
Wasted?
Don't forget that 240 or bust believes in the idea of hiring a comedian to boost ticket sales.
YIP
Zack
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I do. Someone funny though. Chris Rock. Or sarcasm.
Sinbad is wack.
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I do. Someone funny though.
You don't think Chick "brings the noise", emcee-wise? :)
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Yes, those Bber lightbulb jokes were topnotch.
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Yes, those Bber lightbulb jokes were topnotch.
Chick: So how many bodybuilders does it take to change a lightbulb? Give up? Three! One to unscrew it and the other two to spot him!
Audience: That's not particularly funny.
Chick: Know your role and STFU.
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I do. Someone funny though. Chris Rock. Or sarcasm.
Sinbad is wack.
Personally I would stick with HHH, guy knows the industry pretty well and obviously has no problems on the mic and reeling in an audience.
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Is Twinlab still sponsoring IFBB events after this season. Also, what makes you people think these supplement companies want to stay with the IFBB. If so why did the Toronto Pro get cancelled. And haven't some of the companies already reducing sponsorship dollars in the IFBB. These supp companies are getting tired of sponsoring IFBB events and not getting anything out of it. I would think they would look for something different. ANd with the PDI going to Europe it's a good time to climb on board and get your product into the European market.
What happens when/if the supp companies bail on the IFBB? Will everyone be out of jobs? where will the athletic supporter/rep be then? oops sorry,,,good point in the quote,,,why wouldn't some of the companies be moving to PDI if the NOC goes off well? the olympia has turned into the most dramatic edge of your seat contest on the planet!!! wow, sorry again, mistyped there but you get the point the olympia is like that loaf of bread you forgot about and is as stale as can hell. some more excitement is needed and if the PDI will make things a little more exciting, then it's Good. actually though with the overpriced supp market as it is, why wouldn't they sponsor both for a bit, if they are losing out at one federation then cut the losses. IS the IFBB using the old style soprano's pressure here? more than enough people are going to keep buying the supps and spending $$ despite if the atlete is and IFBB or PDI.
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What happens when/if the supp companies bail on the IFBB? Will everyone be out of jobs? where will the athletic supporter/rep be then? oops sorry,,,good point in the quote,,,why wouldn't some of the companies be moving to PDI if the NOC goes off well? the olympia has turned into the most dramatic edge of your seat contest on the planet!!! wow, sorry again, mistyped there but you get the point the olympia is like that loaf of bread you forgot about and is as stale as can hell. some more excitement is needed and if the PDI will make things a little more exciting, then it's Good. actually though with the overpriced supp market as it is, why wouldn't they sponsor both for a bit, if they are losing out at one federation then cut the losses. IS the IFBB using the old style soprano's pressure here? more than enough people are going to keep buying the supps and spending $$ despite if the atlete is and IFBB or PDI.
What if you get hit by lightening?
There's a greater chance of that then supp. companies bailing on the IFBB for the PDI.
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What if you get hit by lightening?
There's a greater chance of that then supp. companies bailing on the IFBB for the PDI.
well said, whatever your point was. Never said they were going to bail.
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What if you get hit by lightening?
There's a greater chance of that then supp. companies bailing on the IFBB for the PDI.
sorry I'm really bored, I reread my post and your response and you're right,,, What if I got hit by lightening?
BUT, what does that have to do with supp companies sponsoring both Federations and/or sponsoring PDI if they wanted to?
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Were not even talking 2nd and 3rd tier PRO'S...were talking about amatuers that couldn't cut the mustard in some cases, where they going?
Like I have said before Bob, most of the 2nd and 3rd tier pros could not requalify to turn pro if they had to! There are many NPC guys that are way better then a lot of the 2nd and 3rd tier guys.
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When Wayne was in charge of the IFBB there were rules that had to be enforced. Knowing and having dealt with Pro BBs he learned that most were completely uunreliable,
went back on their word to compete didn't show up for personal appearances kept airfare money and so on. Don't judge by what you perceive to be a arbitrary ruling. There is a lot more than meets the eye here.
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Like I have said before Bob, most of the 2nd and 3rd tier pros could not requalify to turn pro if they had to! There are many NPC guys that are way better then a lot of the 2nd and 3rd tier guys.
Can't disagree with that but is it better to be a "has been" then a "never was"?
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Can't disagree with that but is it better to be a "has been" then a "never was"?
Well I defintiely agree with that
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Well I defintiely agree with that
Keith,
Are you printing the T-shirts for the PDI?
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When Wayne was in charge of the IFBB there were rules that had to be enforced. Knowing and having dealt with Pro BBs he learned that most were completely uunreliable,
went back on their word to compete didn't show up for personal appearances kept airfare money and so on. Don't judge by what you perceive to be a arbitrary ruling. There is a lot more than meets the eye here.
Lonewolf speaks from a position of knowledge.
I wouldn't agree that 'most' of the pro guys are unreliable, but there are quite a few who've cost promoters and sponsors a lot of money over the years by failing to live up to their obligations.
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Keith,
Are you printing the T-shirts for the PDI?
Yes, for the NOC at this time. We will see about during the year
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Can't disagree with that but is it better to be a "has been" then a "never was"?
True, but the problem is that the NPC makes it to easy to qualify for the national level and to hard to qualify for the pros. You would see much more exciting pro shows if more were to qualify for he pros.
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I need to know from Chic what di Wayne do at the Mandalay Bay to mess it up. If I recall AMi did the Olympia there their first show. Then the next year they went to the Orleans. It sounds and looks like they fucked it up not Wayne. And I think they still had a few years left on their contract their at the Mandalay Bay so AMI ditched on the contract because they are too cheap to put on a class show. Now that is a fact. Why else leave a classy hotel with everything in one place to screw it all up like they have done. Please don't tell us you were part of this. Did you suggest moving the show to the Orleans so they could raise the prize money. I hope not. You are smarter than that.
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The story on changing venues is simple. AMI tried to shake down the Mandalay for free use of the convention center. The Mandalay was having none of Peckers ego and showed them the door.AMI looked for space at other hotels only to find that the same people who owned Mandalay also owned the other hotels they were looking to book. Hence they settled on the Orleans , a much inferior venue while promising the public that this was a much better site. What horseshit!
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The story on changing venues is simple. AMI tried to shake down the Mandalay for free use of the convention center. The Mandalay was having none of Peckers ego and showed them the door.AMI looked for space at other hotels only to find that the same people who owned Mandalay also owned the other hotels they were looking to book. Hence they settled on the Orleans , a much inferior venue while promising the public that this was a much better site. What horseshit!
(http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/naggingbitch.jpg)
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(http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/naggingbitch.jpg)
What's the matter Tre? Does the truth going all the way in hurt too much?
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Good point about promises to Vince but the way to deal with that is through legal channels not by pulling out once you have contractually obligated yourself.
Of couse, this all assumes there was a contract. There may not have been.
Okay, I am back and this is unbelievable, what I am reading. Truth is there were promises made on both sides. Truth is, the IFBB does not care about Vince, they are afraid of the PDI. Why now? Where has the IFBB been up unitll now? It will be interesting to see what happens to Vince after Sept 16th and the IFBB does not need him anymore. Truth is, Wayne had big, big plans for him, but he was convinced to go back, he was commited, and there is a signed contract, wich makes it possible for Wayne to sue, I am betting he won't. Truth is, the PDI does not need him, other than those on this board, most people in the world, fans alike, don't know the differrence between, pdi, ifbb, or whatever. NOC will be huge, is almost sold out as I understand, and will put PDI on the map.
I am laughing, why? Now all the seminars and appearences that Wayne had set up for Vince in europe, will most likely go to me. I will probably end up with all his money, and as far as a supp contract? With whom? doubt it.....
One last thing, Chick, I am also laughing at you....consiperacy thorey? Come on, you know, Vince and other PDI athletes have been aproached by ifbb/npc to not do the show, and have been promised the world..... Maybe if I get Goerge Farah to train me....who knows.....??????? Please Chick, be careful, I am educated, knowledgeable, and that makes me dangerous..........I know more than I let on.
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Like I have said before Bob, most of the 2nd and 3rd tier pros could not re qualify to turn pro if they had to! There are many NPC guys that are way better then a lot of the 2nd and 3rd tier guys.
Which is basically irrelevant...The guys you're talking about walked the walk and EARNED their pro cards, they weren't given anything.
Try qualifying yourself for the FIRST time before talking about guys having to RE-QUALIFY.
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This makes me more interested in attending the NOC.
It will be well worth the money to be at the inaugural.
Sandra
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Maybe if I get Goerge Farah to train me....who knows.....??????? Please Chick, be careful, I am educated, knowledgeable, and that makes me dangerous..........I know more than I let on.
Interesting..no comment by Chick......Some shady IFBB dealings here???
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This makes me more interested in attending the NOC.
It will be well worth the money to be at the inaugural.
Sandra
That's exactly what this is all about..... SOmething new, something fresh.
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That's exactly what this is all about..... SOmething new, something fresh.
That's probably how Vince McMahon pitched the XFL. :)
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Wayne told me yesterday he has more gyms and business in the area selling tickets than ever before. It will absolutely 100% be a sellout as it is almost sold out now. You guys think Vince was needed in the PDI. Wayne was doing VInce a favor by keeping his name out there and booking him appearances. The IFBB does not care about their members, they are very very worried about the PDI. So whatever they can do to hurt Wayne they will. They talked Vince into not doing the NOC. That is fine, It kind of shows the mentality of Vince. What is funny is how Chic and others were bad mouthing VInce for coming over to the PDI and what a mistake it was and whatever but now that he has announced to pull a Manion he is "the man" again. Considering that you guys who hate the PDI so much, the NOC appears to be doing very good. It will be a sellout and allot of top world class competitors. So, it appears that some people sure want change and luckily the guys who hate the PDI and are afraid of it don't have the power or ability to control what the people want. To bad guys. Better luck next time. And, I would concentrate on trying to keep the Mr. Olympia positive, all has done is gone backwards since Wayne left. Keep your eyes on the ball.
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Considering that you guys who hate the PDI so much, the NOC appears to be doing very good. It will be a sellout and allot of top world class competitors.
1. Lee Priest
2. ....
uh, Vince G?
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You guys only seem to know or care about the guys you know from here. Bodybuilding is just as big if not bigger in Europe. Frey would easily his pro card here if he was here. He is huge, young, doesn't have that fucking ugly gut and appeals to women. And there are others. You guys are to close minded. Frey looks way better than Vince. Vince is popular yes but he just doesn't look the same as before. And don't worry the PDI will be just fine. You don't like it great don't go, cause it sure seems that plenty of people do like it and are supporting it.
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You guys only seem to know or care about the guys you know from here.
The notorious provinicialism of American culture. Guilty as charged.
But it seems like the kind of thing that a sharp guy like Wayne might have taken into account. :-\
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The notorious provinicialism of American culture. Guilty as charged.
But it seems like the kind of thing that a sharp guy like Wayne might have taken into account. :-\
Alexis? Is that you?
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Alexis? Is that you?
I hope you don't mean Alexxx of "I measured my sister's calves" fame.
That would be uncalled for. >:(
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I hope you don't mean Alexxx of "I measured my sister's calves" fame.
That would be uncalled for. >:(
Oh, sorry ribo. No, referring to de Tocqueville and his observances. Would never clip a fellow GB'er in such a crude way. That would be a at least a 15 yard penalty. :)
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Oh, sorry ribo. No, referring to de Tocqueville and his observances. Would never clip a fellow GB'er in such a crude way. That would be a at least a 15 yard penalty. :)
Ah. The original "Tookie". :)
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That's probably how Vince McMahon pitched the XFL. :)
The 'no fair catch' rule doomed the league.
Everyone loves a good hit, but not under those conditions.
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You guys only seem to know or care about the guys you know from here. Bodybuilding is just as big if not bigger in Europe. Frey would easily his pro card here if he was here. He is huge, young, doesn't have that fucking ugly gut and appeals to women. And there are others. You guys are to close minded.
Back in its early days, the IFBB did the same thing. They employed a strategy of bringing over the best talent Europe had to offer.
If it worked before, it can work again, and I'm rooting for the PDI's success.
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Okay, I am back and this is unbelievable, what I am reading. Truth is there were promises made on both sides. Truth is, the IFBB does not care about Vince, they are afraid of the PDI. Why now? Where has the IFBB been up unitll now? It will be interesting to see what happens to Vince after Sept 16th and the IFBB does not need him anymore. Truth is, Wayne had big, big plans for him, but he was convinced to go back, he was commited, and there is a signed contract, wich makes it possible for Wayne to sue, I am betting he won't. Truth is, the PDI does not need him, other than those on this board, most people in the world, fans alike, don't know the differrence between, pdi, ifbb, or whatever. NOC will be huge, is almost sold out as I understand, and will put PDI on the map.
I am laughing, why? Now all the seminars and appearences that Wayne had set up for Vince in europe, will most likely go to me. I will probably end up with all his money, and as far as a supp contract? With whom? doubt it.....
One last thing, Chick, I am also laughing at you....consiperacy thorey? Come on, you know, Vince and other PDI athletes have been aproached by ifbb/npc to not do the show, and have been promised the world..... Maybe if I get Goerge Farah to train me....who knows.....??????? Please Chick, be careful, I am educated, knowledgeable, and that makes me dangerous..........I know more than I let on.
Fire away, toughguy....
You would be wise to get Goerge to train you, his knowledge is very good.
It was Vince's decision to join the PDI and VINCE'S decision to return to the IFBB....He's a grown man and is free to make his own decisions.
BTW...why would all these ALLEGED guest posings etc, go to you? If they wanted Vince...they wanted him because he's Vince...his physique, his history, etc.
Let us all know when one of these actually see's the light of day...
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Hi Bob,
Now that the NOC is getting closer to happening :-\ I am surprised that Wayne isn't really pushing to get on Pro Weekly to set the records straight on just what his plans are and trying to put as much hype behind it as possible. I remember you said he expressed interest in coming on the show in the past so have you or Dan got any follow-up from him? Vince dropping out and Lee being the only "seasoned veteran" for the PDI is probably not doing much for helping Wayne establish some credibility, actually the fact that he is Wayne DeMilia probably hurts his credibility ;) I am just suprised Wayne doesn't want to get on the show before Ben Weider. The PDI doesn't even really have an official website up and it seems that if a new organization wants to even be thought of in the same light as the IFBB, it would have to start hyping early and come on much stronger (especially now after it just lost half of its drawing power...Vince Taylor)
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What I don't understand, is how those pushing PDI went from pushing Vince Taylor as the greatest thing since sliced bread and Rocco Siffredi to claiming that PDI don't need Vince Taylor?
YIP
Zack
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I am surprised that Wayne isn't really pushing to get on Pro Weekly to set the records straight on just what his plans are and trying to put as much hype behind it as possible.
Wayne will be releasing all that information when the time is right. ::)
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What I don't understand, is how those pushing PDI went from pushing Vince Taylor as the greatest thing since sliced bread and Rocco Siffredi to claiming that PDI don't need Vince Taylor?
YIP
Zack
I agree....Rocco is the man and sliced bread is genius. ;D
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If Wayne is TRULY for the athletes, as he claims...he'll wish Vince well and move on. It will be mighty tough to enforce a contract to compete in a show for a organization that has yet to see the light of day...what are the damages?
Passing the buck? to who?? Promoters pay for guest posers...the IFBB doesn't pay athletes anything last time I checked.
Bullshit. If Vince signed a contract he should be held accountable. Wayne spent money promoting Vince and the damages are if he isn't in the show Wayne will lose money because fewer people will attend the show. Taylor is a draw and that's why he wanted him as a competitor in the first place. If Wayne sues he's within his rights and it has NOTHING to do with rather or not he's "for the athletes" Business is business. Nothing personal
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Bullshit. If Vince signed a contract he should be held accountable. Wayne spent money promoting Vince and the damages are if he isn't in the show Wayne will lose money because fewer people will attend the show. Taylor is a draw and that's why he wanted him as a competitor in the first place. If Wayne sues he's within his rights and it has NOTHING to do with rather or not he's "for the athletes" Business is business. Nothing personal
Bump for common sense. I can be all for 'muscians and artists', but it Britney Spears signs a contract then cancels a concert after i sold tickets, her ass is going to court.
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1. Lee Priest
2. ....
uh, Vince G?
No, you wouldn't catch me competing in that show. Even I could take 3rd place with all the competitors running scared. The PDI is toast.
You can catch competing at the NPC Mountaineer, the Elite, and the Southern Naturals Championships if you like.
P.S. Its a joke, I know you're talking about Galanti.....or are you??? ;D
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Hi Bob,
Now that the NOC is getting closer to happening :-\ I am surprised that Wayne isn't really pushing to get on Pro Weekly to set the records straight on just what his plans are and trying to put as much hype behind it as possible. I remember you said he expressed interest in coming on the show in the past so have you or Dan got any follow-up from him? Vince dropping out and Lee being the only "seasoned veteran" for the PDI is probably not doing much for helping Wayne establish some credibility, actually the fact that he is Wayne DeMilia probably hurts his credibility ;) I am just suprised Wayne doesn't want to get on the show before Ben Weider. The PDI doesn't even really have an official website up and it seems that if a new organization wants to even be thought of in the same light as the IFBB, it would have to start hyping early and come on much stronger (especially now after it just lost half of its drawing power...Vince Taylor)
Hey let Wayne do his talking on PDI radio, the number one place for bodybuilding news....
Oh wait, its not online....oooopps!!!!!!
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I know you're talking about Galanti.....or are you??? ;D
Sorry, got my VGs mixed up there. :-\
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Hi Bob,
Now that the NOC is getting closer to happening :-\ I am surprised that Wayne isn't really pushing to get on Pro Weekly to set the records straight on just what his plans are and trying to put as much hype behind it as possible. I remember you said he expressed interest in coming on the show in the past so have you or Dan got any follow-up from him? Vince dropping out and Lee being the only "seasoned veteran" for the PDI is probably not doing much for helping Wayne establish some credibility, actually the fact that he is Wayne DeMilia probably hurts his credibility ;) I am just suprised Wayne doesn't want to get on the show before Ben Weider. The PDI doesn't even really have an official website up and it seems that if a new organization wants to even be thought of in the same light as the IFBB, it would have to start hyping early and come on much stronger (especially now after it just lost half of its drawing power...Vince Taylor)
Wayne, told me today is going to be on the show. I don't exactly remember when. Also, Wayne is being very smart about how he is promting the NOC. SO far he spent near nothing yet eveyrone knows about the show already, ticket sales are flying, there are so many people coming in from Europe is is unreal. VIP tickets are almost sold out. One persn bought 60 tickets to go support someone she knows in the show. He is smart by getting some bb's from the east coast competing cause they are buyig tickets big time. His markeitng blitz will begin in August for the NOC. And like I said before please any of the IFBB schmoes go to the show and look in the audience and notice who is attending. Then come back on here and tell everyone and then see how ALLOT of people will change their tune. Wayne knows more than anyone how to promote a show. He has acheievd the highest possible recognition for his promoting. And to think how the IFBB will continue putting on their #1 show at a 3rd rate casino in Vegas and the PDI show in Vegas will be held.................... ........ sorry can't say. But it will put the Olympia venue and show to shame. And if Wayne wanted to be such a bad person why did he not complain about AMI using his deposit at the Mandalay Bay in 2004. He has a great contract at the Bay and AMI fucked it up.
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Keith you're sounding like Shawn before his show minus a website, promotional materials or competitors list for us to pick on.
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Fire away, toughguy....
You would be wise to get Goerge to train you, his knowledge is very good.
It was Vince's decision to join the PDI and VINCE'S decision to return to the IFBB....He's a grown man and is free to make his own decisions.
BTW...why would all these ALLEGED guest posings etc, go to you? If they wanted Vince...they wanted him because he's Vince...his physique, his history, etc.
Let us all know when one of these actually see's the light of day...
Wrong, wrong wrong, as usuall. The fans want bodubuilders, personal ones, articulate ones..To the average person, especially in Europe, Vince Taylor is favored because of his ability to connect with people. I have gooten most of my apearances based on my physique, but also, my ability to connect with people. I don't act pompus, and when someone disagrees with me, I don't call them a moron. As far as Vince making his own decisions, if you think for one second I am going to let you make people beilieve he is not being swayed with promises, you are crazy, and far more out of touch than original thought. Toughguy? Maybe, just unswayed by the bullshit slung by you and your conhorts.
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Jack,
As mentioned by others as well as myself, it wil be interesting to see what endorsement/supplement contracts Vince has in the upcoming weeks or if he will crash and burn after the Olympia....
I have a funny inklling that you may just see a few people in the IFBB Europa Show at the NOC on stage...
HMM.....
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Wrong, wrong wrong, as usuall. The fans want bodubuilders, personal ones, articulate ones..To the average person, especially in Europe, Vince Taylor is favored because of his ability to connect with people. I have gooten most of my apearances based on my physique, but also, my ability to connect with people. I don't act pompus, and when someone disagrees with me, I don't call them a moron. As far as Vince making his own decisions, if you think for one second I am going to let you make people beilieve he is not being swayed with promises, you are crazy, and far more out of touch than original thought. Toughguy? Maybe, just unswayed by the bullshit slung by you and your conhorts.
Wasn't he "swayed with promises" to join the PDI in the first place?
Why point the finger to anyone except Vince?
The fans want Vince Taylor simply because he's one of the best and most entertaining posers in the world.
Just what "bullshit" do you believe I'm slinging?
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.
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Bump for common sense. I can be all for 'muscians and artists', but it Britney Spears signs a contract then cancels a concert after i sold tickets, her ass is going to court.
240-
Should the IFBB have hauled Lee's ass in to court for signing the Olympia contract, and then canceling?
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Please Chick, be careful, I am educated, knowledgeable,
except for that spelling class being a bitch :) :)
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except for that spelling class being a bitch :) :)
Yeah, thats true, I can't spell for shit(LOL). Thats funny. I am so used to having my assistant do all my writing/proofing. I would probably get fired if I had her type my responses, though, I have thought about it......how friggin funny would that be?
Yes, for those wondering, she's hot..........
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Yeah, thats true, I can't spell for shit(LOL). Thats funny. I am so used to having my assistant do all my writing/proofing. I would probably get fired if I had her type my responses, though, I have thought about it......how friggin funny would that be?
Yes, for those wondering, she's hot..........
well throw a dog a bone...throw up a pic of her!!
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well throw a dog a bone...throw up a pic of her!!
Arvilla's got a pic of her....Mike?
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.......Mike? were waiting
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mike?
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Wasn't he "swayed with promises" to join the PDI in the first place?
Why point the finger to anyone except Vince?
The fans want Vince Taylor simply because he's one of the best and most entertaining posers in the world.
Just what "bullshit" do you believe I'm slinging?
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Arvilla's got a pic of her....Mike?
ok..............took this pic while we were out (yes laura was there!) at Club Play in Philly
Jacks assistant is on the left (her name is casey,young but very sweet!!)
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ok..............took this pic while we were out (yes laura was there!) at Club Play in Philly
Jacks assistant is on the left (her name is casey,young but very sweet!!)
Yup, but I think she spells it Kasey with a "K". And the other girl is Diana (she's a bit on the weird side, but nice too).
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Yup, but I think she spells it Kasey with a "K". And the other girl is Diana (she's a bit on the weird side, but nice too).
I hired her for her spelling skills.............
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240-
Should the IFBB have hauled Lee's ass in to court for signing the Olympia contract, and then canceling?
The IFBB could and would never do anything like that for real. How can they enforce a contract when they themselves are in voilation of so many rules they setforth.
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Jack if I bring you out here you have to bring yor assistant. And yes Issac I sound like Sean, as he said he learned everythign from me.
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Jack if I bring you out here you have to bring yor assistant. And yes Issac I sound like Sean, as he said he learned everythign from me.
Thanks Keith,
Chick, you wanted to know when these "apearances" would see the light of day. Well, I have done a half dozen so far, but Hawaii, well, that will top it off.
Even though I am not Vince Taylor, I pull plenty interest, Plenty.
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Yeah, thats true, I can't spell for shit(LOL). Thats funny. I am so used to having my assistant do all my writing/proofing. I would probably get fired if I had her type my responses, though, I have thought about it......how friggin funny would that be?
Yes, for those wondering, she's hot..........
How fuccking lazy are you, Jack? I have an assistant too, but I can still manage to click "tools", "spelling and grammar" all by myself. ::)
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How fuccking lazy are you, Jack? I have an assistant too, but I can still manage to click "tools", "spelling and grammar" all by myself. ::)
YOu are pretty thick headed aren't you. ::)
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YOu are pretty thick headed aren't you. ::)
I only skimmed the thread, and I'm still too lazy to go up and re-read.
Shouldn't you be busy helping Klownmali take "future Mr.O" photos in his kitchen or something?
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240-
Should the IFBB have hauled Lee's ass in to court for signing the Olympia contract, and then canceling?
Yes. And I called for it back then. Anyone who breaks a contract which results in financial loss for the promoters should be held accountable.
And before *anyone* says, "The show hasn't happened yet - how can he lose money?", think about the promotional materials out there with Vince's face on it which now has to be recreated.
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Yes. And I called for it back then. Anyone who breaks a contract which results in financial loss for the promoters should be held accountable.
And before *anyone* says, "The show hasn't happened yet - how can he lose money?", think about the promotional materials out there with Vince's face on it which now has to be recreated.
What promotional materials?
Show a few...internet stuff cost virtually nothing, what few things have been in Musclemag are compted...How much money do you think Wayne is out, exactly?
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...How much money do you think Wayne is out, exactly?
More than you've won in shows that haven't been sponsored by BB.com! ;D
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What promotional materials?
Show a few...internet stuff cost virtually nothing, what few things have been in Musclemag are compted...How much money do you think Wayne is out, exactly?
Are you presuming to know what he has spent on materials? Do you think it's free to give out posters and send out postcards? What about the people who have bought tickets to see Vince and now call for a refund?
Your ability to defend Vince's outright contract break - after shitting on Lee's O contract break last year - while at the same time completely hating on lee's goal of doing both PDI and IFBB - definitely shows some inconsistency.
And I don't hear any of your peers standing up defending you on it.
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That's because my peers don't give a shit whether Lee competes in one, both, or either federation....nor have they expressed an interest in competing in both. BTW, I'm not hating on Lee for wanting to do both, more power to him.
Are you telling me people have been asking for a refund because Vince isn't going to be there? How many in your estimation?
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That's because my peers don't give a shit whether Lee competes in one, both, or either federation....nor have they expressed an interest in competing in both. BTW, I'm not hating on Lee for wanting to do both, more power to him.
They haven't expressed an interest to YOU, Bob. Many of them are interested in doing it. However, from your vague relationship with manion to your public berating and insulting of Lee & Wayne on the boards, you have hardly shown yourself to be an impartial advocate. Rather, some think you have a pro-ifbb agenda, not a pro-athelte agenda.
Are you telling me people have been asking for a refund because Vince isn't going to be there? How many in your estimation?
I have no idea the number - and neither do you. For either of us to assert that we do would be asinine.
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What promotional materials?
Have to side with the Chickster on this one.
The cheap bastard hasn't even gotten a real e-mail address yet.
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Yes. And I called for it back then. Anyone who breaks a contract which results in financial loss for the promoters should be held accountable.
And before *anyone* says, "The show hasn't happened yet - how can he lose money?", think about the promotional materials out there with Vince's face on it which now has to be recreated.
The promotional material needed to be re-created anyway because it has sponsors that aren't even sponsoring the show. Makes no difference. Vince made the right decision and stayed where he belonged. Wayne can go sue but you can't get water out of a dry well. He should have given him the money but he didn't and Vince said C-Ya!!!!
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Excuse me...YOU stated "What about the people that bought tickets to see Vince, and now call for a refund?"
What makes you think ANY people have requested a refund?
You're suggesting that there are all these pro's that are interested, want the rule to be changed, but are unwilling to tell me, the representative for them who would present it to the IFBB? LOLOLOL......
Let them all come forward...If there are so many, let their voices be heard. I'm merely a messenger for their wishes...guess their not doing themselves any good saying nothing then, are they?
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Excuse me...YOU stated "What about the people that bought tickets to see Vince, and now call for a refund?"
What makes you think ANY people have requested a refund?
You're suggesting that there are all these pro's that are interested, want the rule to be changed, but are unwilling to tell me, the representative for them who would present it to the IFBB? LOLOLOL......
Let them all come forward...If there are so many, let their voices be heard. I'm merely a messenger for their wishes...guess their not doing themselves any good saying nothing then, are they?
Why are you laughing?
You have taken shots at Wayne on the boards and on the radio show.
You have taken shots at Lee on the boards and on the radio show.
You have bent over backwards to defend Vince's contract break.
Do YOU think you appear impartial, Bob?
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You're talking out of your ass as usual...
You telling me if 30 IFBB pro bodybuilders wanted to compete in both, and made it known to me to present it at the next BOG meeting, I wouldn't do it?
Hell give me 20....10....make it 2 at this point. Why would I care if the guys wanted to compete in both?
Try answering the questions I asked.
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You're talking out of your ass as usual...
You telling me if 30 IFBB pro bodybuilders wanted to compete in both, and made it known to me to present it at the next BOG meeting, I wouldn't do it?
Hell give me 20....10....make it 2 at this point. Why would I care if the guys wanted to compete in both?
Try answering the questions I asked.
Why TWO and not one?
Bob, why would you do it for two athletes, but not for the one who is asking for it, Lee Priest?
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I think Wayne should use some initiative, replace Vince Taylor in the lineup with Vince Goodrum and hope no one notices!
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I think Wayne should use some initiative, replace Vince Taylor in the lineup with Vince Goodrum and hope no one notices!
Why would anyone notice?
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Hey guys....why don't you all take one step back from this whole Vince Taylor/PDI thing.
The thing is I happened to be one of the first to know that there seemed to be a problem with Vince doing the NOC. I speak to Vince almost everyday and he mentioned to me that he has much respect for Wayne but he is not delivering what he promised so far and that Vince needs to look out for himself and his family. I have to say that he mentioned a few things about this whole ordeal and well....he might have a case here. There are certain clauses in the NOC contract that Wayne has allegedly breached on himself along with a few other things..so..let's just all relax. No one is here to hurt anyone. I'm sure Vince would come one here very soon and clear this up.
Peace.
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I'm obviously being facetious (obvious to everyone but you), about 2 people.
I can't submit items for consideration based on the fact that only 1 person has expressed an interest...that doesn't reflect the IFBB pro's as a group. I have a meeting that will be on the Olympia weekend for the athlete's...they can elect to vote on a proposal to be submitted if they want, I'll be more than happy to put it on the agenda.
If Lee believes he can get enough support, or all these guys that are interested as you think there are...it should be no problem.
I'm not going to submit 56 different proposals for everyone that wants something for THEMSELVES.
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I'm not going to submit 56 different proposals for everyone that wants something for THEMSELVES.
Oh come on, Chick, even YOU should be able to see this is about more than just Lee. ::) Wouldn't you say the right to compete in multiple federations is something that benefits ALL the athletes, present and future?
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It doesn't necessarily benefit ALL the athletes or EITHER federation for that matter.
As it's been pointed out numerous times now...what's possible, is that the SAME athletes win the money, and BOTH federations end up watered down with less talent in each.
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I can't submit items for consideration based on the fact that only 1 person has expressed an interest...that doesn't reflect the IFBB pro's as a group. I have a meeting that will be on the Olympia weekend for the athlete's...they can elect to vote on a proposal to be submitted if they want, I'll be more than happy to put it on the agenda.
If Lee believes he can get enough support, or all these guys that are interested as you think there are...it should be no problem.
I'm not going to submit 56 different proposals for everyone that wants something for THEMSELVES.
Hey, if you feel you're representing the views of every athlete to the best of your abilities, that is how you feel.
To me, the inconsistent numerical requirements are puzzling - but hey, what the hell.
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There are no official numerical requirements...but for some reason , I don't believe 1 guy represents or echo's the sentiments of 200 very well.
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It doesn't necessarily benefit ALL the athletes or EITHER federation for that matter.
As it's been pointed out numerous times now...what's possible, is that the SAME athletes win the money, and BOTH federations end up watered down with less talent in each.
Is it your job to look out for the financial health of the various federations, or is your job to look out for the rights of the athletes, and make sure they're not infringed on by the powers-that-be?
Last I checked, your last name wasn't "Weider".
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Why TWO and not one?
Bob, why would you do it for two athletes, but not for the one who is asking for it, Lee Priest?
The IFBB would reject Chick if he submits something that only affects one person.
You feel that the threat of being blackballed or suspended is the reason why no IFBB pros except Priest is going to be there. Simply put, no-one trust Wayne based on PAST EXPERIENCES .
As far as refunds are concerned, I don't think it'll change the number of people attending. Inf fact, I can count them all on one hand. Even you're not going to show up and support Wayne.
PDI was doomed from the beginning. It has the advertising of a local NPC event.
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Hey, if you feel you're representing the views of every athlete to the best of your abilities, that is how you feel.
To me, the inconsistent numerical requirements are puzzling - but hey, what the hell.
shut the fuk up please,
chick why do you even respond to this idiot, hes not going to stop talking out his ass
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The IFBB would reject Chick if he submits something that only affects one person.
It seems to me it has the potential to affect a lot more than that.
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Is it your job to look out for the financial health of the various federations, or is your job to look out for the rights of the athletes, and make sure they're not infringed on by the powers-that-be?
Last I checked, your last name wasn't "Weider".
No, it's my job to look out for the athletes in the IFBB...as I pointed out, this is something that could affect them...and NOT for the better.
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PDI is a freaking joke
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chick why do you even respond to this idiot, hes not going to stop talking out his ass
Because he's saying what a LOT of people are thinking.
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Because he's saying what a LOT of people are thinking.
either you are 240 or his boyfriend, nobody gives a shit about the PDI
get real dude
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either you are 240 or his boyfriend, nobody gives a shit about the PDI
get real dude
It's not about the PDI... it's about the IFBB constantly screwing these guys. They don't even pay them, yet they think they have the right to regulate every aspect of their lives. It's bullshit.
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No, it's my job to look out for the athletes in the IFBB...as I pointed out, this is something that could affect them...and NOT for the better.
I feel silly for arguing all this. It's painfully obvious.
If the IFBB guys can earn ONE MORE DOLLAR through the existence of the PDI, it's good for them.
Their rep would want them to have as many opportunities as possible. If the NOC pays $1 in prize money, the IFBB atheltes rep should fight for their right to compete, even if NONE of them come forward for fear of retribution.
And none of that "maybe after a show or two", or "51% of athletes must submit in writing...". If they can earn more money, the athletes rep should petition it!
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It's not about the PDI... it's about the IFBB constantly screwing these guys. They don't even pay them, yet they think they have the right to regulate every aspect of their lives. It's bullshit.
like you give a shit about them, you think bodybuildingis gay
remember that post you made awhile ago
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I feel silly for arguing all this. It's painfully obvious.
If the IFBB guys can earn ONE MORE DOLLAR through the existence of the PDI, it's good for them.
Their rep would want them to have as many opportunities as possible. If the NOC pays $1 in prize money, the IFBB atheltes rep should fight for their right to compete, even if NONE of them come forward for fear of retribution.
And none of that "maybe after a show or two", or "51% of athletes must submit in writing...". If they can earn more money, the athletes rep should petition it!
Hmmmmm....Let me see...$1 purse vs $5-7,000 in prep costs...
get the point?
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he has much respect for Wayne but he is not delivering what he promised so far
Imagine that. :)
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Hmmmmm....Let me see...$1 purse vs $5-7,000 in prep costs...
get the point?
that arugment is rendered irrelevant by the very fact that most IFBB guys do take a loss when competing. There are an average of what, 20 men per contest, and the top 6 are in the money, unless its an invitational? Only the top 3 break even unless its the O or the ASC.
Have you submitted legislation demanding every athlete receive at least 5000-7500 for competing in every IFBB show?
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I feel silly for arguing all this. It's painfully obvious.
If the IFBB guys can earn ONE MORE DOLLAR through the existence of the PDI, it's good for them.
Their rep would want them to have as many opportunities as possible. If the NOC pays $1 in prize money, the IFBB atheltes rep should fight for their right to compete, even if NONE of them come forward for fear of retribution.
And none of that "maybe after a show or two", or "51% of athletes must submit in writing...". If they can earn more money, the athletes rep should petition it!
Maybe the "quick fix" for a $1 is not such a great idea at the end of the day for the athletes. Everyone has to look ahead not just the today.
I personally thought Wayne would have created more PR about the NOC and I don't mean PR as in Getbig or internet "radio" shows. I mean marketing dollars like he used to. He knows how do to it and he has done it for years ...spending the dollars..maybe that's what's missing...the support. I do believe if Wayne makes it past this year with 3 shows the PDI will be a strong force withn 3 years...every beginning has it's problems.
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that arugment is rendered irrelevant by the very fact that most IFBB guys do take a loss when competing. There are an average of what, 20 men per contest, and the top 6 are in the money, unless its an invitational? Only the top 3 break even unless its the O or the ASC.
Have you submitted legislation demanding every athlete receive at least 5000-7500 for competing in every IFBB show?
it's rendered irrelevant by the very fact were talking about being allowed to compete in an organization that has yet to exist...
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Maybe the "quick fix" for a $1 is not such a great idea at the end of the day for the athletes. Everyone has to look ahead not just the today.
I personally thought Wayne would have created more PR about the NOC and I don't mean PR as in Getbig or internet "radio" shows. I mean marketing dollars like he used to. He knows how do to it and he has done it for years ...spending the dollars..maybe that's what's missing...the support. I do believe if Wayne makes it past this year with 3 shows the PDI will be a strong force withn 3 years...every beginning has it's problems.
I am sure he would get more support if the IFBB would stop threatening people and companies that whish to sponsor the show.How do i know this i will let you know later about the tatics of the IFBB from the horses mouth not rumor or bullshit what was told to me from the people involved.
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it's rendered irrelevant by the very fact were talking about being allowed to compete in an organization that has yet to exist...
Fair enough.
If the NOC takes place as planned, establishing proof of an organization to you, will you then petition the IFBB to allow guys to compete in all PDI events occurring AFTER Sept 16, 2006?
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I am sure he would get more support if the IFBB would stop threatening people and companies that whish to sponsor the show.
How the hell can IFBB threaten companies? The companies support the IFBB's ass, not the other way around.
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that arugment is rendered irrelevant by the very fact that most IFBB guys do take a loss when competing. There are an average of what, 20 men per contest, and the top 6 are in the money, unless its an invitational? Only the top 3 break even unless its the O or the ASC.
Have you submitted legislation demanding every athlete receive at least 5000-7500 for competing in every IFBB show?
It's a business...if each individual chooses to lose money so be it. It all goes back to everyone sticking together. If no one competes then we will see a raise in prize money.
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Ah yes Chick, comfortably numb on this one aren't we eh?
Moral, business ethics the top priority when Lee Priest pulled out of the olympia
When it comes to "the company" though, hah free reign! more power to him!
As I've said before, rarely do I think much of the criticism levelled at you is justified but in this case you're absolutely guilty as charged :)
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it's rendered irrelevant by the very fact were talking about being allowed to compete in an organization that has yet to exist...
I completely agree with you about the phantasmal status of the PDI. But I think this weakens your argument. What if a majority of pros wanted to petition for the contractual right to compete in other federations should the opportunity arise - just as a matter of principle? [Yeah, I'm not betting on it either - but it wouldn't violate the laws of physics at least.] I don't think you'd decline to present their position just because there was not yet another federation for them to compete in.
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why should the IFBB allow their members to compete elsewhere?
wayne is only saying the PDI guys can still compete in the ifbb because he HAS to... he isn't yet in a position of power... you think if the pdi takes off and the ifbb is on it's last legs he'll be allowing pdi guys to help save the ifbb from oblivion? no way
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why should the IFBB allow their members to compete elsewhere?
Because the IFBB isn't paying them, so they shouldn't be able to DISallow them from doing anything anywhere other than on an IFBB stage. Once they walk out the venue door, and the IFBB shouldn't be allowed to tell them shit.
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Because the IFBB isn't paying them, so they shouldn't be able to DISallow them from doing anything anywhere other than on an IFBB stage. Once they walk out the venue door, and the IFBB shouldn't be allowed to tell them shit.
i'm not saying they are just in doing this but why would they change their position in a million years?
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i'm not saying they are just in doing this but why would they change their position in a million years?
Well, we'll never know, since the athlete's rep won't even put the issue on the table. ;)
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Fair enough.
If the NOC takes place as planned, establishing proof of an organization to you, will you then petition the IFBB to allow guys to compete in all PDI events occurring AFTER Sept 16, 2006?
No....
1 show doesn't make an "organization" or a federation...I'm sure a track record would have to be established before more athletes would be willing to take a stance on having the rules challenged.
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Ah yes Chick, comfortably numb on this one aren't we eh?
Moral, business ethics the top priority when Lee Priest pulled out of the olympia
When it comes to "the company" though, hah free reign! more power to him!
As I've said before, rarely do I think much of the criticism levelled at you is justified but in this case you're absolutely guilty as charged :)
Lee decided to pul out of the Olympia contract last year for one person and one person only...LEE.
Moral and business ethics my ass....he's agreed to sign the SAME contract this year.
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I don't know why so much emphasis on the advertising for the NOC. It's just under 2 months away. Ticket sales are going very very strong. I bet their are more NOC tickets sold so far than Olympia tickets. Plus, Flex or M&F will not allow Wayne to advertise in the mags. Blechman is though. And when he takes over the mag business, PDI's position will be multiplied by a thousand. Since Vince has announced not doing the NOC not one phone call or email or anything to Wayne has asked for a refund because Vince isn't going to be there. And like I said, anyone who knows people in the IFBB, check out who is in the audience. That will tell you who and what kind of support Wayne has. You will be surprised. And the tickets have already been bought as has the airfare. So keep your eyes open and come back here the day after and tell everyone.
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I don't know why so much emphasis on the advertising for the NOC. It's just under 2 months away. Ticket sales are going very very strong. I bet their are more NOC tickets sold so far than Olympia tickets. Plus, Flex or M&F will not allow Wayne to advertise in the mags. Blechman is though. And when he takes over the mag business, PDI's position will be multiplied by a thousand. Since Vince has announced not doing the NOC not one phone call or email or anything to Wayne has asked for a refund because Vince isn't going to be there. And like I said, anyone who knows people in the IFBB, check out who is in the audience. That will tell you who and what kind of support Wayne has. You will be surprised. And the tickets have already been bought as has the airfare. So keep your eyes open and come back here the day after and tell everyone.
I love the unbridled optimism when it comes to he PDI. Like it's going to take off like a rocket just because you guys want it to. my prediction : NOC then bye bye
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I love the unbridled optimism when it comes to he PDI. Like it's going to take off like a rocket just because you guys want it to. my prediction : NOC then bye bye
I hear after the NOC it will be merging with the WPI! ;D
Word is, Wayne has flown to Vegas to conduct merger negotiations with Craig over one of those phone-things they have in prison visiting rooms.
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I don't know why so much emphasis on the advertising for the NOC. It's just under 2 months away. Ticket sales are going very very strong. I bet their are more NOC tickets sold so far than Olympia tickets. Plus, Flex or M&F will not allow Wayne to advertise in the mags. Blechman is though. And when he takes over the mag business, PDI's position will be multiplied by a thousand. Since Vince has announced not doing the NOC not one phone call or email or anything to Wayne has asked for a refund because Vince isn't going to be there. And like I said, anyone who knows people in the IFBB, check out who is in the audience. That will tell you who and what kind of support Wayne has. You will be surprised. And the tickets have already been bought as has the airfare. So keep your eyes open and come back here the day after and tell everyone.
how much is PDI paying you to say this?
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Lee decided to pul out of the Olympia contract last year for one person and one person only...LEE.
Moral and business ethics my ass....he's agreed to sign the SAME contract this year.
You misunderstand me,
You were the one touting the ethics to Lee, I'm pointing out that 1 year ago you were a tower of moral fibre, a credit to your proud mum. No way should Lee have signed that contract and then pulled out. Its just not right!
Then when its convenient (when it goes in the IFBB's favour) all that nonsense is forgotten.
So if we are to question Lee's motives and lack of ethics clearly you would be in the same boat.
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You misunderstand me,
You were the one touting the ethics to Lee, I'm pointing out that 1 year ago you were a tower of moral fibre, a credit to your proud mum. No way should Lee have signed that contract and then pulled out. Its just not right!
Then when its convenient (when it goes in the IFBB's favour) all that nonsense is forgotten.
So if we are to question Lee's motives and lack of ethics clearly you would be in the same boat.
Why do you bother? Everyone can see it. He's not going to admit that there is a double standard.........
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Vince will have his hands full at the Olympia...there is plenty of talent.
Lets wish him the best and see what happens.
"Talent"..............HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA!
"Athletes" LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I love the unbridled optimism when it comes to he PDI. Like it's going to take off like a rocket just because you guys want it to. my prediction : NOC then bye bye
Lets bet on it.
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how much is PDI paying you to say this?
As much as a competitor in the Mr. Olympia that doesn't place in the top ten. :D Thats with no steroids, no synthol, no training, no dieting, and no ass kissing. Why does advertising a show make it successful. The Colorado Pro was a financial nightmare and look how much advertising they did. The NOC is close to being a sellout without much advertising so what does that tell you. Why is the hell woudl Wayne blow money on advertising months out when ticket sales and going great. I don't understand this. Just to do it. The NOC has been the biggest topic on this board and some others for months. It cost nothing.
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Lee decided to pul out of the Olympia contract last year for one person and one person only...LEE.
Moral and business ethics my ass....he's agreed to sign the SAME contract this year.
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Yeah for the fans only nothing else.And if i was to be in the money they can keep it.After all they will need it for next years Mr O
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As much as a competitor in the Mr. Olympia that doesn't place in the top ten. :D Thats with no steroids, no synthol, no training, no dieting, and no ass kissing. Why does advertising a show make it successful. The Colorado Pro was a financial nightmare and look how much advertising they did. The NOC is close to being a sellout without much advertising so what does that tell you. Why is the hell woudl Wayne blow money on advertising months out when ticket sales and going great. I don't understand this. Just to do it. The NOC has been the biggest topic on this board and some others for months. It cost nothing.
I wonder how many people from this board are actually going
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I wonder how many people from this board are actually going
lets just say more people will attend chick athletes meeting than the noc
hope this helps
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lets just say more people will attend chick athletes meeting than the noc
hope this helps
Umm..wrong...6 ppl last year and quite alot more than you think for the NOC....
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And if i was to be in the money they can keep it.After all they will need it for next years Mr O
;D
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either you are 240 or his boyfriend, nobody gives a shit about the PDI
get real dude
Talk about talking out of your ass??? If nobody give a shit about PDI, why is PDI the most disscussed issue on this board? I wa told by a certain someone that The RHino has been talked about/disussed/argued over-more than Ronnie and Jay combined. Truth isEVERYONE CARES ABOUT THE PDI-ESPECIALLY THE IFBB.Thats why they are trying so hard to take back/keep the athletes they have. If we are not an issue, everyone is sure putting a great deal of energy into sonething they "don't give a shit about"
You make me laugh.....
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Talk about talking out of your ass??? If nobody give a shit about PDI, why is PDI the most disscussed issue on this board? I wa told by a certain someone that The RHino has been talked about/disussed/argued over-more than Ronnie and Jay combined. Truth isEVERYONE CARES ABOUT THE PDI-ESPECIALLY THE IFBB.Thats why they are trying so hard to take back/keep the athletes they have. If we are not an issue, everyone is sure putting a great deal of energy into sonething they "don't give a shit about"
You make me laugh.....
monster truth.
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monster truth.
Well, I have been taught by the best..........
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Talk about talking out of your ass??? If nobody give a shit about PDI, why is PDI the most disscussed issue on this board? I wa told by a certain someone that The RHino has been talked about/disussed/argued over-more than Ronnie and Jay combined. Truth isEVERYONE CARES ABOUT THE PDI-ESPECIALLY THE IFBB.Thats why they are trying so hard to take back/keep the athletes they have. If we are not an issue, everyone is sure putting a great deal of energy into sonething they "don't give a shit about"
You make me laugh.....
monster modesty................. ..........(j/k jack ;D
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monster modesty................. ..........(j/k jack ;D
Sorry, did not mean to come off that way, just making the point that people do very much care about what the PDI is doing.
People talk about me for all kinds of reasons, including that they think I suck.......
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Well Jack you are a hunka-hunka burning love....in a straight way of course ;D
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Well Jack you are a hunka-hunka burning love....in a straight way of course ;D
Hey.... Don Rickles was a sex symbol in his day!
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Hey.... Don Rickles was a sex symbol in his day!
Yeah, He could pull some ass. Problem is I don't look like him anymore, dieted down, my face gets thin. Still ugly though(LOL)......
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I wa told by a certain someone that The RHino has been talked about/disussed/argued over-more than Ronnie and Jay combined.
Well... Did you believe that person?
YIP
Zack